Fools Rush In
By Tony Marsh : 22/07/2007 : 
Comments (93) :
After listening to Kieth Wyness on Radio City yesterday I have no doubt that any vote against the move will be pointless. Fathead has already made his mind up. As far as I am concerned anyone voting to leave the city boundary and move to Kirkby is a traitor to the cause. I notice a lot of the pro-Kirkby lot are not from Liverpool so they don't truely understand the implications this move would have on the city.
Comments (93) : The erosion of fan base is one thing and it will happen eventually and the surrendering of our right to be part of the bigger picture that is Liverpool the City is another but it's our spirtual home we are turning our backs on. To the people of Liverpool, this isn't just a football matter ? it's much more than that. Everton Football Club are just as big a part of this city as The River Mersey, The Three Graces, The Liver Birds, St Georges Hall, China Town and The Beatles. We are part of the fabric that makes Liverpool such a great place.
We are a football city; it's in our blood and unlike other big cities in the UK we don't care about Rugby or Ice Hockey, Speedway or Baketball or any of the other sports many enjoy. So why is it okay for one of England's oldest cities to have one of its football teams, which is part of the history and the culture of the place, ripped apart and moved just so a couple of spivs might slot a backhander?
Do you really think that Liverpool FC would move out to the Kirkby wastlelands? Would they shite! How about Newcastle moving to Gateshead or Spurs over to South London? No way! ? it would never happen... so why is it okay for us to move out??? It's an absolute disgrace that we should even be debating this issue and the fans out there who are calling for it to happen make me sick. What about all our history and our traditions. Do they count for nothing any more? We belong in this city and that's the end of the matter. As Warren Bradley said yesterday, "We would be getting a £75 million Cowshed that would need rebuilding in 50 years time if we move to Kirkby" ? and he is right!
The most worrying aspect of all regarding this is how fucking stupid some Evertonians really are. Quite prepared to blindly follow BK to Kirkby with nothing more to go on but a computer-generated graphic of some imaginary ground. This joker Kenwright is the man who cheated us out of the Kings Dock move and lied about the Fortress Sports Fund just to keep hold pf 'his' club. Now you want to trust him with something so massive?!? Not me ? I wouldn't trust him to buy a tin of beans. Who knows what he is up to?
Kenwright hasn't got the balls to admit that his quest for investment [24/7] has failed and, rather than give up his train set, he would sooner drag us off to some cheaply built plastic ground on a reatil park in the middle of nowhere. He makes me sick. Dixie Dean, Joe Mercer, Tommy Lawton and all those great players back in the 1930s who made Everton what they are today would turn in thier graves at this move. If it happens and we do move out then that will be it for us as a club and any chance we think we had of being in the bigtime again will be gone. Liverpool WILL be the only club in the city and they will reign supreme. As usual we will have our faces pressed up against the window forever on the outside looking in.
It just doesn't make any sense to me. The City is booming these days... millions of visitors pouring in from all over the world. The whole place is being rebuilt and the 2008 celebrations are nearly upon us and Kenwright wants to take us out when everyone else wants to come in!!!
The biggest decision this club has ever faced in its entire history is being made by an ex Coronation Street actor and greedy buisnessman who doesnt give a crap about us. And thousands of our fans are willing to back them up. WHY???
When it all goes tits up and Kenwright sails off in to the sunset with his millions safely stashed away, my conscience will be clear.... How about yours?
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Reading Saturdays Echo, Liverpool city council say that they have found 3 area's for EFC to relocate to. Is Speke, like Kirkby outside the city boundary as well as Long Lane? Someone please enlighten me as I live on the Wirral.
Everton in Scotland Road, Scotland Road in Everton, all the above IN THE CITY. Council decisions are never released off the cuff, it's funny how this made the Echo etc on the back of the 'VOTE Kirkby' decision. Well vote then and vote fucking NO and see what happens.
Even Bestways want to get involved and they're not the biggest. Others will get interested, it's too near the city centre not to be involved.
I'm a Bootle exile, I have a second job at the Millennium Stadium, I watched it rise in Cardiff city centre and worked there from the day it opened. It could have been built halfway to Newport about 5 miles out of town. The city would never have seen the benefit of all the travelling fans, who enjoy BEING IN CARDIFF, it could have ended up as a white elephant.
I'm saying the new ground if there is to be one NEEDS TO BE IN touch with what it is supposed to be representing, THE CITY OF LIVERPOOL and not a district of Merseyside. Don't be rushed, vote NO to Kirkby.
Just been reading an article on the BBC website about Formula One supremo Bernie Ecclestone possibly buying Arsenal. His response was...
"If somebody offers me something I think is good value, I will have a go. I'm interested in anything if it's cheap enough."
Good value? Cheap? Never mind those Gooners Bernie... that's our new Tesco motto! >;-)
Great piece Tony, I share your feeling on this. I dont trust Kenwright at the best of times, never mind trust him with the biggest decision the club has ever had in its history. Like I’ve said in past, if Kenwright was true Evertonian he proclaims to be, he wouldnt even CONSIDER it and nor should we. End of
Paul Tran,
I don’t think Tony was talking about people who were born in the city,but about the people,like the one I was talking to today,who said he would vote yes,because he thought Evertonians from the city were too lazy to travel the four miles to Kirkby!!He did faulter a bit,when I told him about Scotland Rd.More information should be made available about the alternative sites to the people living outside of the city who are eligible tovote
I don’t think Tony was talking about people who were born in the city,but about the people,like the one I was talking to today,who said he would vote yes,because he thought Evertonians from the city were too lazy to travel the four miles to Kirkby!!He did faulter a bit,when I told him about Scotland Rd.More information should be made available about the alternative sites to the people living outside of the city who are eligible tovote
Fuck you Tony calling us traitors just because we don’t currently live in the city!!!!!! My Uncle is a fucking shareholder and my grandfather a season ticket holder. If I could I would move back to Liverpool but I can’t just quit my job and my wife works for the government in the US so it’s not just as easy as picking up and finding a new house. The way you just come on here and attack anyone who feels differently than you is disgraceful and just pathetic of this site to keep posting your bullshit. Having people come on here and discuss their opinions is one thing, but you just attack people and speak in conspiracies and hatred, never showing any facts to back your arguement.
Everton is bigger than you and bigger than a team just supported by people who live in the Liverpool city boundaries. We have supporters in Kirkby, Wirral, Huyton, Bootle, London, the US, and so on. Having your address being inside the city doesn’t make you any more of a supporter than any one else. When my Grandfather lived in the United States he never stopped supporting Everton any less. When he moved back to England he got his season ticket back and I was there with him for Cahill’s first goal for the club at Manchester City, and for Carsley’s goal against the Shyte in our 1-0 Derby victory. The fact that I didn’t live in Liverpool had no effect on me screaming my fucking head off when Carsleys shot went in and grinding my teeth for those last minutes of the match. So fuck you Tony, you must be a very miserable old man. I won’t even bother countering what you say in your hate piece because quite frankly that trash is not worth it.
Everton is bigger than you and bigger than a team just supported by people who live in the Liverpool city boundaries. We have supporters in Kirkby, Wirral, Huyton, Bootle, London, the US, and so on. Having your address being inside the city doesn’t make you any more of a supporter than any one else. When my Grandfather lived in the United States he never stopped supporting Everton any less. When he moved back to England he got his season ticket back and I was there with him for Cahill’s first goal for the club at Manchester City, and for Carsley’s goal against the Shyte in our 1-0 Derby victory. The fact that I didn’t live in Liverpool had no effect on me screaming my fucking head off when Carsleys shot went in and grinding my teeth for those last minutes of the match. So fuck you Tony, you must be a very miserable old man. I won’t even bother countering what you say in your hate piece because quite frankly that trash is not worth it.
Barks I knew you must be a yank, now dont try and force us into one of your home depot crappy futures, its not soccer mate its fucking football!
As always Mr Negative Tony the complete and total Blue Bigot. Why Tony if you have all the answers don’t you put in an offer for the Club yourself? With the insight and commercial expertise you demonstrate so consistently I’m assuming you’re a successful entrepeneur with a few million to spare - or maybe not! Secretly I think you’re Kenwright’s Ma in Law.
David,I think you made one mistake in response to Tony.I actually think Tony is from where I am originally from,that place Huyton in Knowsley.
David B, Tony always shoots from the hip and although never the best chosen words they are his feelings, using matching vitriol lowers your argument to one just as extreme, I’m sure he is just alluding to the growing pro Kirkby move seeming to emanate from those from outside the area, I live closer to Kirkby but am against it so it’s not all true by the way.
Paul O’Hanlon Billy Bullshitter couldn’t get Bernie fucking Winters never mind Bernie Eccleston he either has no desire or ability - both a betrayal of his task to do what’s right for the club he claims to love. He is a two bit panto queen and third bit soap actor and way out of his depth.
Paul O’Hanlon Billy Bullshitter couldn’t get Bernie fucking Winters never mind Bernie Eccleston he either has no desire or ability - both a betrayal of his task to do what’s right for the club he claims to love. He is a two bit panto queen and third bit soap actor and way out of his depth.
Sorry David,when I read your piece again,I realised you never specifically meant Tony living in the city.
Marc, try reading what I said again and this time comprehending it. I am currently living in California, with virtually my entire family still living throughout Merseyside. My family fought for the English army in World War II and after, my Grandfathers brother was the sole survivor when his entire plattoon were gunned down parachuting in the Pacific theater later in the War. He was shot several times and eventually rescued by the United States army. My family lived through the constant air raids and bombings by the Germans. In the next few years I will be moving back to my families home, but right now just couldn’t make the move. My wife is American, with all her family here, and she is just not ready to move so far from her entire family. That is why I am still in the States, having to watch Everton in the early hours of the morning and having to spend all the money we save not to buy a new car that we desperately need, with my car having 195,000 miles on it currently, but to fly back to England to catch my Blues play at Goodison Park. I know my families history, you don’t, so don’t be so quick to judge. My family has shed blood for England, as would I if the need arose.
Tony the erosion of our fanbase will be down to the lack of success on the field. Any potential fan from say a mixed family is always going to take the easy option and support the most successful team.We will be going nowhere unless we take up the Tesco/Knowsley offer and generate more revenue and attract a rich sugar daddy to buy the club.
Tony,indeed all the YES voters are
TRAITORS.
TRAITORS.
FFS! Tony’s up to his old tricks again.
And as usual, after reading one of tony’s outbursts, I am disgusted and exasperated!
But this time, its because I pretty much agree with everything youve just said tony!
And I cant get my head around that!
I have to say the way wyness is trying to put things across absolutely stinks!
How anyone can sit back and examine everything he’s said, and some vague detail-sparse image of a stadium, and have not have a huge suspicion we are being railroaded into some mutual palm-greasing arrangement, is worrying.
Thats not to call those who support it traitors though, I can certainly understand, why people may be won-over merely on face value.
But when a CEO says ’were having a vote, but we cant stay at goodison, and theres no plan b’ surely thats got to make people uneasy!
It may well pan out all hunky-dorey, but I think the club really needs to be pushed on this.
And no ballot should take place until there IS a plan B,C, and D.
That would be a vote worthy of peoples time!
And as usual, after reading one of tony’s outbursts, I am disgusted and exasperated!
But this time, its because I pretty much agree with everything youve just said tony!
And I cant get my head around that!
I have to say the way wyness is trying to put things across absolutely stinks!
How anyone can sit back and examine everything he’s said, and some vague detail-sparse image of a stadium, and have not have a huge suspicion we are being railroaded into some mutual palm-greasing arrangement, is worrying.
Thats not to call those who support it traitors though, I can certainly understand, why people may be won-over merely on face value.
But when a CEO says ’were having a vote, but we cant stay at goodison, and theres no plan b’ surely thats got to make people uneasy!
It may well pan out all hunky-dorey, but I think the club really needs to be pushed on this.
And no ballot should take place until there IS a plan B,C, and D.
That would be a vote worthy of peoples time!
The other day I replied to a poster on another site who said that all Everton supporters against the move were not "real" fans. (He was a Liverpool local Tony incase you interested.
And now I am going to give the same reply to you, all this "traitor" talk is non-sense and really takes away from your overall arguement.
And why are you still pushing this "not from round ’ere" arguement. It’s pathetic.
As far as I have seen the split may well be slightly more in favour if you asking people who are either not from the city or have moved away, but I would not say it is that dramatic.
But just to amuse your sensibilities Tony, I am from Yorkshire, now live in Edinburgh, and am going to vote no. Or would you prefer I didn’t vote and the vote was restrcited to those with a Liverpool postcode on production of their birth certificate to prove place of birth?
And now I am going to give the same reply to you, all this "traitor" talk is non-sense and really takes away from your overall arguement.
And why are you still pushing this "not from round ’ere" arguement. It’s pathetic.
As far as I have seen the split may well be slightly more in favour if you asking people who are either not from the city or have moved away, but I would not say it is that dramatic.
But just to amuse your sensibilities Tony, I am from Yorkshire, now live in Edinburgh, and am going to vote no. Or would you prefer I didn’t vote and the vote was restrcited to those with a Liverpool postcode on production of their birth certificate to prove place of birth?
Well said Tony, I don’t always agree with your comments but on this you are bang on - Everton FC is indeed part of the fabric of Liverpool and unless you have ever lived there you wouldn’t fully appreciate that. When Everton are doing well there is a buzz about the city generally - the club is part of it’s lifeblood.
I would also add that the only way you get extra bums on seats is by playing well, entertaining and drafting in decent players to take you to the next level. I’m sorry but I just don’t go for this argument that says if we have a brand new stadium a rich investor will want to snap us up. If Beattie is still playing for us and were getting 25,000 attendance then who is going to give a flying fuck? Moving to Kirkby and somehow hoping that 50,000 fans and corporate bods are suddenly going to magically fill it, which will then give the manager extra funds seems an argument arse about face to me. I would be interested to know just exactly how Wyness has arrived at his projections
I take it Wyness is doing all the talking now as Kenwright said he didn’t want to be the chairman to take the club out of the city? Everton’s rightful place is on the banks of the royal blue Mersey - just a shame Kenwright fucked that one despite his assurances
I wasn’t going to pile into this argument but here it is in plain facts - long term, moving out to Kirkby will be Everton’s death knell. Somebody come in and stop it happening
I would also add that the only way you get extra bums on seats is by playing well, entertaining and drafting in decent players to take you to the next level. I’m sorry but I just don’t go for this argument that says if we have a brand new stadium a rich investor will want to snap us up. If Beattie is still playing for us and were getting 25,000 attendance then who is going to give a flying fuck? Moving to Kirkby and somehow hoping that 50,000 fans and corporate bods are suddenly going to magically fill it, which will then give the manager extra funds seems an argument arse about face to me. I would be interested to know just exactly how Wyness has arrived at his projections
I take it Wyness is doing all the talking now as Kenwright said he didn’t want to be the chairman to take the club out of the city? Everton’s rightful place is on the banks of the royal blue Mersey - just a shame Kenwright fucked that one despite his assurances
I wasn’t going to pile into this argument but here it is in plain facts - long term, moving out to Kirkby will be Everton’s death knell. Somebody come in and stop it happening
The truth is we cannot afford to move or redevelop unless there is a partner or partners to cover the vast majority of the costs. Probably one of the reasons no new major investment has been forthcoming is the restrictions of the existing ground. If we vote no what is the consequence for the club?
This is the hardest thing that we have had to think about as Evertonians.........two dead cert relegations is a piece of piss in comparison. What really pisses me off though is someone trying to tell me how to vote on this. In my view Mr Wyness and people like Tony are as bad as each other. Which ever we vote we are all evertonians and shown the respect we deserve by everybody, those with opposing views!
This is the hardest thing that we have had to think about as Evertonians.........two dead cert relegations is a piece of piss in comparison. What really pisses me off though is someone trying to tell me how to vote on this. In my view Mr Wyness and people like Tony are as bad as each other. Which ever we vote we are all evertonians and shown the respect we deserve by everybody, those with opposing views!
Absolute bollocks ask anyone from around the world what they associate with Liverpool and i bet the name Everton is hardly mentioned
Upton Park didn’t stop the Egghead buying up West Ham did it?
Sorry this argument just doesn’t stack up
Everton, to use a cliche are a sleeping giant in need of awaking. It has a large and dedicated core support who have been faithful through some lean and shitty times. The fact that no investor has come to Everton is down to the fact that Kenwright has failed to attract potential suitors despite his claim to have been working "24/7"
Sorry this argument just doesn’t stack up
Everton, to use a cliche are a sleeping giant in need of awaking. It has a large and dedicated core support who have been faithful through some lean and shitty times. The fact that no investor has come to Everton is down to the fact that Kenwright has failed to attract potential suitors despite his claim to have been working "24/7"
Well said Tony, its a no vote from anyone with even half a brain and Im amazed that any true supporter could consider leaving the city. Who will the kids growing up in Liverpool support if we leave? LFC. A disastrous move to a tinpot stadium and one which we well forever regret.
The decision to move everton f.c out of the city should not be left to people like kenwrong(no mispelt!) and wyness.The fan’s from the city should have the right to stay/go.Mr marsh, i think with that heartfelt piece, the pro-mover’s will have been put in their place.
Bill Kenwright has his faults, you can justly throw many things at him but one things for sure, he’s not at Everton to make money.
Your naive comment "Kenwright sails off in to the sunset with his millions safely stashed away" is completely stupid.
Call Kenwright incompetant, call him an ex-actor with no money but one thing is for sure his heart is blue. Probably thats the problem, he loves the club so much that he’s reluctant to let it go even when he must realise it cannot grow with him at the helm.
One thing I am 100% sure on, Bill Kenwright will give every penny he has to Everton, his decisions may be misguided but his intentions are honerable and its a fucking joke to suggest he’s attempting to make money from the club by selling it down the river.
Your naive comment "Kenwright sails off in to the sunset with his millions safely stashed away" is completely stupid.
Call Kenwright incompetant, call him an ex-actor with no money but one thing is for sure his heart is blue. Probably thats the problem, he loves the club so much that he’s reluctant to let it go even when he must realise it cannot grow with him at the helm.
One thing I am 100% sure on, Bill Kenwright will give every penny he has to Everton, his decisions may be misguided but his intentions are honerable and its a fucking joke to suggest he’s attempting to make money from the club by selling it down the river.
If I were the running the club, I would give the alternatives (Speke, Scotland Road, etc) 6 weeks to come up with an outline proposal. If it’s as good as the Kirkby option, then there’s a decision to be made about whether they take it through to a second proposal. If it’s nowhere near, then we go for Kirkby.
What matters here is the long-term success of the club. If it’s sit and rot at Goodison whilst we head down the table, then it’s madness.
And all this slagging off of the Board and Management is a waste of time. Persuade them to have the strength of conviction to look at other options for a limited time. Let’s face it, the Kirkby proposal ticks all the boxes even for the most of the nay-sayers except it’s out of the City. And Kirkby has forced LCC to pull it’s finger out. Hold the LCC to a vey tight timetable and see if their alternatives are watertight.
We should all want the best for the club. Whatever that is. If there is no alternative to Kirkby out there, then I don’t think waiting a few years for a better option to come along would make any sense at all.
What matters here is the long-term success of the club. If it’s sit and rot at Goodison whilst we head down the table, then it’s madness.
And all this slagging off of the Board and Management is a waste of time. Persuade them to have the strength of conviction to look at other options for a limited time. Let’s face it, the Kirkby proposal ticks all the boxes even for the most of the nay-sayers except it’s out of the City. And Kirkby has forced LCC to pull it’s finger out. Hold the LCC to a vey tight timetable and see if their alternatives are watertight.
We should all want the best for the club. Whatever that is. If there is no alternative to Kirkby out there, then I don’t think waiting a few years for a better option to come along would make any sense at all.
I’m sorry but i totally disagree on what you said about people being traitors becuase they agree on the move to kirkby. If you remember, we are the pride of merseyside and kirkby is part of it. I know its outside of the liverpool boundries, but its less then a mile out side it, thats an extra five minutes or so on the journey.
In my point of view the only traitors are the people that will no-longer go to games or support the club becuase of the fact that the stadium is outside the city boundries. The people who do that don’t support the club,they support the city.
In my point of view the only traitors are the people that will no-longer go to games or support the club becuase of the fact that the stadium is outside the city boundries. The people who do that don’t support the club,they support the city.
the simple fact is we need to moveand we cannot do it without help love goodison but its not up to the job anymore lcc should have got their heads out the sand a long time ago
tony what planet are you on?so apart from the kirkby project so wheres the bloody millions coming from, we struggle to buy players now never mind buying a new stadium other than kirkby wake up and smell the roses you dime bar
I think our true blue chairman should be coming out and saying a lot more. Sounds like the dirty work has been given to Wyness to do. I wasn’t suggesting that the club should shelve Kirkby then just sit on it’s hands for the next few years. I think with a decision like this and it’s possible impact on the club, choosing Kirkby simply because there is currently nothing better on the table sounds like the blind leading the blind
Paul Atress a man with a track record of the most heinous lies about the club and directly against the well being of the club and in the face of "fellow blues" and his ongoing silence smacks of True Blue Bill’s colours, he has no honour, he has no ideas, he has failed himself but more importantly history will show him as a man that failed the club.
Spot on Tony. Your a true blue who speaks from the heart. As i,ve said before how many pro Kirkby go into our city after the match or around the ground for the after match analysis.i,ve alredy had from kopites i work and drink with. You dont belong to this city or go and watch your small club playing in a small town.And you know what? THAT FUCKING HURTS. Remember we blues were here first and they can never never take that away from us. So dont give it up.
Spot on Tony! We must not surrender the city to the shite no matter what. I would rather stay in a delapidated Goodison till someone comes in with a bit of vision and optimism than sell out. No disrespect to Kirkby but it just isnt good enough and we all know it!
To David Barks If you read the article carefully I didnt say people from outside the city are traitors..I said the fans who vote to go to Kirkby are traitors. <>I am from Huyton and during the 2nd world war my family were bombed out of the south end of Liverpool and moved there.Most families in Huyton originated from either the South End or the Scotland road area of the city./>We all think of Huyton as being in Liverpool .
One side comes under Knowsley the other Liverpool council.I wouldnt want Everton FC to go Huyton either.
One side comes under Knowsley the other Liverpool council.I wouldnt want Everton FC to go Huyton either.
Paul attress you must be on the Bullshit Billy tablets.
Where did the $20m to buy Johnson out come from? Not from Kenwright but from some creative accounting in the club books ably assisted by his then friend Paul Gregg.He now has the majority shareholding of a club worth at least $100m in my humble opinion.WAke up he is in it for the money , prestige and power for as long as he lasts.I wouldnt trust him with my kids pocket money.He’s a proven liar.
Where did the $20m to buy Johnson out come from? Not from Kenwright but from some creative accounting in the club books ably assisted by his then friend Paul Gregg.He now has the majority shareholding of a club worth at least $100m in my humble opinion.WAke up he is in it for the money , prestige and power for as long as he lasts.I wouldnt trust him with my kids pocket money.He’s a proven liar.
Bang on in my opinion, Tony.., I am an out of town supporter (from the Lakes originally), and have been going to Goodison for 24 years.. Can’t believe that there are so many Evertonians who believe that this is the only option - the only option for our small minded,unambitious leadership, perhaps..
Did anybody else see a friendly with Kendal town on 28th July in the mirror a couple of days ago... I know this isn’t the place to ask, but would be wet dream for me (home town...)Proper wool who will definately vote NO..
Did anybody else see a friendly with Kendal town on 28th July in the mirror a couple of days ago... I know this isn’t the place to ask, but would be wet dream for me (home town...)Proper wool who will definately vote NO..
I take it that there were no cheap flights to Cyprus on offer this year then?
Porky pig also said that GP is falling down, Is it fuck. ok we know it could do with a revamp but it aint falling down, porky just worrying about the prawn sandwich brigade and he,s big fat wad, not the real supporters.He,s a fake, a businessman who is only interested in what in it for him.Any Why did,nt they ask us before the deal was done, FUCKING BENT
No-one has nebtioned the wording of the vote yet - this will be the crunch.
If it says "Do you vote to leave Goodison and move to a modern stadium" - most people would say yes. If it says "Do you vote to leave Goodison and move to a ground built by Tesco in Kirkby" - then I guess its 50:50 - I still havent made my mind up and, like many others are floating voters at the moment.
I wonder which of the two versions will be provided for the vote? - or perhaps something more vague, just to get a yes result. I would like to see LCC come up with some alternatives - and be able to vote regarding them - Kirkby or nothing just doesnt sit right with me at the moment.
If it says "Do you vote to leave Goodison and move to a modern stadium" - most people would say yes. If it says "Do you vote to leave Goodison and move to a ground built by Tesco in Kirkby" - then I guess its 50:50 - I still havent made my mind up and, like many others are floating voters at the moment.
I wonder which of the two versions will be provided for the vote? - or perhaps something more vague, just to get a yes result. I would like to see LCC come up with some alternatives - and be able to vote regarding them - Kirkby or nothing just doesnt sit right with me at the moment.
I’d just like to say, at the moment Kirkby is the only option, whether we like it or not. LCC have only mentioned other sites, as yet they are not on the table, Bradley say’s he won’t give up council land and Bestway (i ask you)are the only recognised possible partner. I personally would prefer Scotland Road to Kirkby, but consider this, LCC never helped when Kings Dock went belly up, even though they were due a share in the stadium, and they haven’t helped since. I also seem to remember Labour councillor Joe Anderson and his constituents objecting to that.
If we were to stay in the city, because of the way this council works, we would be tied up in red tape and public enquiries for years, just look at other proposals for development in the city which have been held up or knocked back altogether.
If Bradley and the city want EFC, a multi million pound enterprise, to stay in the city they have to put up or shut up. How much money has either club brought to this city over the years?
This council wants something for nothing every time.
I know the board at Everton have ballsed up time and time again, but everyone knows that we can’t do it alone we need help and in the abscence of private investors
we need a council who recognises the true worth of Everton Football Club.
I want Everton to stay in Liverpool but not Speke, Long Lane, or even Goodison Park(i hate County Road) my preference is Scotland Rd right where everyone can see it, but i very much doubt whether this council could/would let it happen, why else would Bradley leave it so late, and dont give me exclusivity he didn’t sign up to it.
I think the Board at EFC are pushing for Kirkby because its a goer, pure and simple. Knowsley Council are more capable of making it happen.
By the way I am a scouser, I live in the Dingle,it doesn’t matter where we play, my kids and their kids will always be blues, and yes i know what it’s like to be an Evertonian, it fucking hurts!
My message is for Bradley, you are the leader of Liverpool City Council, bring Everton into the heart of the city, Scotland Road.
But do it quick for fucks sake!
If we were to stay in the city, because of the way this council works, we would be tied up in red tape and public enquiries for years, just look at other proposals for development in the city which have been held up or knocked back altogether.
If Bradley and the city want EFC, a multi million pound enterprise, to stay in the city they have to put up or shut up. How much money has either club brought to this city over the years?
This council wants something for nothing every time.
I know the board at Everton have ballsed up time and time again, but everyone knows that we can’t do it alone we need help and in the abscence of private investors
we need a council who recognises the true worth of Everton Football Club.
I want Everton to stay in Liverpool but not Speke, Long Lane, or even Goodison Park(i hate County Road) my preference is Scotland Rd right where everyone can see it, but i very much doubt whether this council could/would let it happen, why else would Bradley leave it so late, and dont give me exclusivity he didn’t sign up to it.
I think the Board at EFC are pushing for Kirkby because its a goer, pure and simple. Knowsley Council are more capable of making it happen.
By the way I am a scouser, I live in the Dingle,it doesn’t matter where we play, my kids and their kids will always be blues, and yes i know what it’s like to be an Evertonian, it fucking hurts!
My message is for Bradley, you are the leader of Liverpool City Council, bring Everton into the heart of the city, Scotland Road.
But do it quick for fucks sake!
So why is it okay for one of England?s oldest cities to have one of its football teams, which is part of the history and the culture of the place, ripped apart and moved just so a couple of spivs might slot a backhander?
The powers that be at the council that bend over backwards to help our ?neighbours? don?t and have never given a flying shite - good riddance to them.
What has 2008 got to do with anything? Neither club will have new digs at that time, so it is a redundant point.
kirkby wasteland? Cowshed?
What do we have now? What options are there to move?
The powers that be at the council that bend over backwards to help our ?neighbours? don?t and have never given a flying shite - good riddance to them.
What has 2008 got to do with anything? Neither club will have new digs at that time, so it is a redundant point.
kirkby wasteland? Cowshed?
What do we have now? What options are there to move?
dont insult us out of town supporters tony, half the everton away fans are not residing in l postcodes , does not mean we do not understand the issues involved,a home game for me means leaving at 7.30am on a saturday, getting home at midnight,would you do that regually? my opinion is goodison is not repairable because of whats going on over the road,we will become more in the shadow of our dear friends/enemy.ive been going from the solent since 1976 so i feel i have an opinion on this matter, unless a backer comes into place we have little option but to move to a new stadium, unless we share with tranny for a year or two whilst gooodison is turned around.cos i aint going to anfield .no love or money .we all love goodison but we must move on, if kirkby is our best option then thats the one, having spent most of my summer hols in kirkby during my teens i always felt i was in liverpool, its only a line drawn by a council pleb.coyb
I think this city boundary argument is all bollocks. Goodison Park wasnt in the city boundary when it was built. Who gives a toss if it is now. For some to argue moving all the way out to speke is ok cos its in some "boundary" but not 4 miles up the road to kirby? As far as Im concerned kirkbys liverpool, bootles liverpool, spekes just about liverpool (although its actually nearer widnes than the city).
Kirkby is 8 miles from city centre, speke is 9 miles, but people are ok with speke because of some map and a "boundary" MAD !!
Kirkbys affordable, nobody has come up with a better option for the price, not the fans, the city council, nobody. BK & KW have a proposal, they have the backing, they can deliver. What are we waiting for ??
Kirkby is 8 miles from city centre, speke is 9 miles, but people are ok with speke because of some map and a "boundary" MAD !!
Kirkbys affordable, nobody has come up with a better option for the price, not the fans, the city council, nobody. BK & KW have a proposal, they have the backing, they can deliver. What are we waiting for ??
if the liverpool council gave a shit surely they would have by now, they dont,To me its not about location you can still have a pint in your local , just NEED to leave earlier, its about ground experience, no soulless ground like wigan bolton or man shitty we have to have a tight compact ground like goodison park
noise makes points,where are the local watering holes shown in the new images? not another shit wigan experience. shops AGHHH
noise makes points,where are the local watering holes shown in the new images? not another shit wigan experience. shops AGHHH
What an excellent piece of writing Tony straight from the heart mate. I couldn’t agree more with you on this subject
To anyone who’s currently wavering; to anyone who thinks the boundaries are "arbitrary"; to anyone who just doesn’t get Tony’s argument; to Keith Wyness and Bill; to anyone who doesn’t quite appreciate how the feelings are "on the ground" here in Liverpool, I ask you to do the following (no matter how much it may make you puke). Go to Google. Type the following in "One City, One Club, One Name, Liverpool". Play the You Tube vid that appears at the top of the list (yep, all of it - with the sound turned right up, because there’s nothing to fear is there, as we keep getting told?). Read that banner at the front of the kop. That’s exactly what it says. "One City, One Club, One Name - Liverpool". And that was last March! Prepare ye for what we’ll get at Goodison in October if we’ve voted to go to Kirkby. And for the next 50 years. You can inversely measure how foolish our move is by the glee on their faces. They’re already in overdrive. They’re waiting to slam the door shut behind our heels, catching them as we scurry out. Watch that vid. Now tell me that the boundary doesn’t matter. Ever met a kopite who doesn’t want us to go? No, neither have I. Go on pro-Kirkby voters. Go Google.
So, Tony, I’m a traitor if I vote to move to Kirkby? What sort of traitor continues to support his team by spending money on a ticket, and actually attending the match, rather than sitting on their arse at home (sorry in a pub showing Scandinavian satellite TV)?
Regardless of where Everton will be playing, I will be there, SUPPORTING them. Where will you be? Some supporter you must be, if you’re going to stay away on principle!
And who the fuck are you to call me a traitor?!? Who apoointed you God of Evertonians?? Oh, you didn’t go through an electoral process, you appointed yourself?? That figures!
Well, guess what, I love this fucking club, and much as it pains me to leave the city, I’l follow them wherever, as I’m sure the true supporters will, too.
And this is straight from the heart too, for all the Marsh Muppets who seem to think that they hold the moral high ground because they rant and rave against a move, as if they’re the only fucking people whose opinion matters.
PS I bet you’d have been on John Houlding’s side back in 1892, wouldn’t you??
Regardless of where Everton will be playing, I will be there, SUPPORTING them. Where will you be? Some supporter you must be, if you’re going to stay away on principle!
And who the fuck are you to call me a traitor?!? Who apoointed you God of Evertonians?? Oh, you didn’t go through an electoral process, you appointed yourself?? That figures!
Well, guess what, I love this fucking club, and much as it pains me to leave the city, I’l follow them wherever, as I’m sure the true supporters will, too.
And this is straight from the heart too, for all the Marsh Muppets who seem to think that they hold the moral high ground because they rant and rave against a move, as if they’re the only fucking people whose opinion matters.
PS I bet you’d have been on John Houlding’s side back in 1892, wouldn’t you??
dear me
why all these rantings? if as every one thinks its a done deal then all these postings and rantings from everyone are pointless
as for me i think tony marsh is spot on but even the vote wont make a difference WILL IT ????
why all these rantings? if as every one thinks its a done deal then all these postings and rantings from everyone are pointless
as for me i think tony marsh is spot on but even the vote wont make a difference WILL IT ????
Reality check needed ! If we want to be competitive and generate income that is in line with the top 10 clubs in the Prem rather than down at the bottom then we have to have a new ground. I really do not want to move out of Liverpool but the day the council allowed Liverpool to build in Stanley Park was the day that they showed that they didn’t give a crap about us. All of this noise about other sites - rubbish ! They had a great chance to help us with the Kings Dock project and chose to walk away from the perfect situation for us and the city. I am not hung up over the City boundaries issue although would prefer to stay but not as the poor second to Liverpool. If Kirkby gets us a new 55,000 seater stadium, generates income on a par with the top 10 clubs as well as an additional 10m from selling the Goodison land and prob an additional 15m per annum in revenues then I would be in favour. One request though would be that we keep the Goodison park name - I do not want a ground named the Tesco’s stadium. This club is about tradition let’s keep that piece.
Jason
Jason
Aintree is technically not in the City.
Scotland road is tiny and is a dump.
Scotland road is tiny and is a dump.
I’ve lived in this ’Great City’ all my life.I think it is a shithole.But is Kirby any better?
The three sites presented by Warren Bradley are not exactly awe-inspiring, Long Lane, Speke or Scotland Road, are they any more part of the fabric than Kirkby. Scotland road looks both innacessible whilst Bestway cash and carry hardly possess the investment credentials of a multi-million pound partner such as Tesco. With the current incumbents we require major financial assistance to rebuild or relocate simple as, as far as I am concerned Warren Bradley is looking to save face, placate the voter and run a pr exercise too little and too late from a City Council that has hoared itself to the redshite whilst showing ambivilence to the future of Everton FC. And by the way Tony I am from Liverpool, but unlike some do see the really big picture.
I think it’s about time we stopped this in fighting and collectively stuck two fingers up to L.C.C. Now that a move seems likely they are finally posturing about how to keep Everton in the city well your several years to late L.C.C instead of bending over backwards for L.F.C you should have been addressing the issues with Everton. I for one will be voting for the move unless a credible (affordable)redevelopment of Goodison is on the table and as for L.C.C they can stew in their own mismanagement!!!
I think it’s about time we stopped this in fighting and collectively stuck two fingers up to L.C.C. Now that a move seems likely they are finally posturing about how to keep Everton in the city well your several years to late L.C.C instead of bending over backwards for L.F.C you should have been addressing the issues with Everton. I for one will be voting for the move unless a credible (affordable)redevelopment of Goodison is on the table and as for L.C.C they can stew in their own mismanagement!!!
spot on fella, pork chops and billyboy would sell us down the river given 1/2 a chance.
Jason Tooley.... you talk about a reality check....
It was Everton who could not come up with £30M for the Kings Dock. The council, English Partnerships and NWDA had done their bit.
If you think the new stadium will develop an additional £15M in revenue, could you explain how?
We can’t fill 40,000 seats at Goodison, so where is the extra revenue going to come from. The expression "if you build it, they will come" was from a film called "Field of Dreams" and anyone who thinks we will regularly sell out a 55,000 stadium is certainly dreaming.
Why do you not question how the stadium was estimated at £75M on Monday, and by the end of the week, had increased to £150M, with no explanation of how the new figure would be arrived at, or paid for.
Why do you not question the statement that you can build a £75M stadium for £50M?
Why do you not question our Chief Executive’s detail of the deal, when Tesco issued a statement last Tuesday to clarify that they would NOT be giving Everton £50M towards the stadium?
Reality check indeed....
It was Everton who could not come up with £30M for the Kings Dock. The council, English Partnerships and NWDA had done their bit.
If you think the new stadium will develop an additional £15M in revenue, could you explain how?
We can’t fill 40,000 seats at Goodison, so where is the extra revenue going to come from. The expression "if you build it, they will come" was from a film called "Field of Dreams" and anyone who thinks we will regularly sell out a 55,000 stadium is certainly dreaming.
Why do you not question how the stadium was estimated at £75M on Monday, and by the end of the week, had increased to £150M, with no explanation of how the new figure would be arrived at, or paid for.
Why do you not question the statement that you can build a £75M stadium for £50M?
Why do you not question our Chief Executive’s detail of the deal, when Tesco issued a statement last Tuesday to clarify that they would NOT be giving Everton £50M towards the stadium?
Reality check indeed....
Spurs over to South London? No way!
Woolwich Arsenal move to North London.. No way!
Kirkby is part of greater Liverpool and a good deal closer to Central Liverpool than let’s say White Heart Lane is to Central London.
I’m fed up with the emotional rubbish spouted by the anti Kirkby lot and the duplicitous behaviour of the city council. The latter have had years to come up with a site and to watch them scrabbling around now is little short of pathetic.
Woolwich Arsenal move to North London.. No way!
Kirkby is part of greater Liverpool and a good deal closer to Central Liverpool than let’s say White Heart Lane is to Central London.
I’m fed up with the emotional rubbish spouted by the anti Kirkby lot and the duplicitous behaviour of the city council. The latter have had years to come up with a site and to watch them scrabbling around now is little short of pathetic.
Great piece could not of put it better myself Tony
I think all we Blues who don’t want the move to Kirkby, should e-mail Everton F.C. and tell them that if we do move we will not be buying tickets to see games in the new stadium.. after all we can watch them on TV and I will save an 8 hour round trip.
Tony, i agree a move to kirkby is not right for EFC. But let’s use the vote to twist the hand of Liverpool county.
Instead of being a striaght Kirkby yes or no vote, why not have a couple more box’s in there. One which i beleive would be the out right winner saying something along the line of "Stay within the city boundary pending a suitable site being located". Meaning people would get their chance to move from Goodison, but not from the city.
Take this to the council show them what "their people" want, people who they represent, work with them, locate a site, sign a deal of exclusivity, and then locate the backer/s. Trust me the closer to the city centre the easier and better selection of backer/backers will come forward.
Nothing in this life is free and business deals that are the "deal of the century" do not fall out of thin air and land on peoples lap.
Who wants to stay in a hotel in Kirkby, who wants to play roulette in a casino in Kirkby, who wants to hold business meetings in Kirkby, who wants to go to concerts in kirkby??? The stadium can and should be used for so many more things than just 2 hours of football on every other weekend. It should be generating money 24/7 using as many different sources as possible.
I dont have all the answers, but i am not getting £250k per year to take the firts deal that comes along!
Another thing to ponder on, is Wyness not on some kind of deal where he gets bonus’s linked directly to the clubs profit and loss? If we had to put more money up front, does this effect someones bonus?
Instead of being a striaght Kirkby yes or no vote, why not have a couple more box’s in there. One which i beleive would be the out right winner saying something along the line of "Stay within the city boundary pending a suitable site being located". Meaning people would get their chance to move from Goodison, but not from the city.
Take this to the council show them what "their people" want, people who they represent, work with them, locate a site, sign a deal of exclusivity, and then locate the backer/s. Trust me the closer to the city centre the easier and better selection of backer/backers will come forward.
Nothing in this life is free and business deals that are the "deal of the century" do not fall out of thin air and land on peoples lap.
Who wants to stay in a hotel in Kirkby, who wants to play roulette in a casino in Kirkby, who wants to hold business meetings in Kirkby, who wants to go to concerts in kirkby??? The stadium can and should be used for so many more things than just 2 hours of football on every other weekend. It should be generating money 24/7 using as many different sources as possible.
I dont have all the answers, but i am not getting £250k per year to take the firts deal that comes along!
Another thing to ponder on, is Wyness not on some kind of deal where he gets bonus’s linked directly to the clubs profit and loss? If we had to put more money up front, does this effect someones bonus?
A lot of interest and differing opinions on this contreversial issue. I am a passionate lifelong evertonian who hails from Dublin. I am a regular visitor and I love it’s rundown character. It is refreshing to have a stadium that is alive. As opposed to the lifeless and souless arenas like Th Reebok, or City of Manchester stadium.
For all of this, and as much as I love the place, objectively Goodison cannot survive as a modern day football stadium and we need a new stadium.
I realise that it will affect fans who are based in the city more than myself however from my point of view and without the lack of an alternative I would tentatively be in favour of the move. And before Mr. Marsh calls me a traitor, he will be pleased to know that I will not be voting on the issue. The real crime is that we are not being giving alternatives by the club.
There are 2 things that spring to my mind after reading Mr. Marsh’s column and the following comments posted.
Firstly, why is everyone so concerned with what Liverpool do. Yes they are building a new stadium in the city but surely a time has to come when we stop looking to Liverpool to see what they are doing. It seems that a great concern is that we are leaving the city to Liverpool, we should not concern oursleves with Liverpool and concentrate more on matters closer to home.
Secondly, I would be very interested to hear what the manager and players think about the propsed move and if their opinions would have any affect on the fans so worried about the move??
For all of this, and as much as I love the place, objectively Goodison cannot survive as a modern day football stadium and we need a new stadium.
I realise that it will affect fans who are based in the city more than myself however from my point of view and without the lack of an alternative I would tentatively be in favour of the move. And before Mr. Marsh calls me a traitor, he will be pleased to know that I will not be voting on the issue. The real crime is that we are not being giving alternatives by the club.
There are 2 things that spring to my mind after reading Mr. Marsh’s column and the following comments posted.
Firstly, why is everyone so concerned with what Liverpool do. Yes they are building a new stadium in the city but surely a time has to come when we stop looking to Liverpool to see what they are doing. It seems that a great concern is that we are leaving the city to Liverpool, we should not concern oursleves with Liverpool and concentrate more on matters closer to home.
Secondly, I would be very interested to hear what the manager and players think about the propsed move and if their opinions would have any affect on the fans so worried about the move??
is it just me or is wyness coming across as someone whose just making things up as he goes along...
first of all the stadium was going to cost 75mill (50mill from tesco and 25 from us selling goodiosn and naming rights)...
now its value has magically shot up to 150mill...
where exactly is this extra 75mill coming from? or extra 50mill (as wyness has included the 25million discount the builders are giving tescos in his sums)
this should go into the record books, builders giving a 25mill discount.....not very likely is it...
so mr wyness...is this extra 50mill the ’minimal debt’ you speak of???
the man is a slug....vote NO on the basis that the club are bullshítting us....irrespective of kirkby or not...
its a disgrace.
first of all the stadium was going to cost 75mill (50mill from tesco and 25 from us selling goodiosn and naming rights)...
now its value has magically shot up to 150mill...
where exactly is this extra 75mill coming from? or extra 50mill (as wyness has included the 25million discount the builders are giving tescos in his sums)
this should go into the record books, builders giving a 25mill discount.....not very likely is it...
so mr wyness...is this extra 50mill the ’minimal debt’ you speak of???
the man is a slug....vote NO on the basis that the club are bullshítting us....irrespective of kirkby or not...
its a disgrace.
spot on..i am also bemused why we would take the club out of the city. Where is Kenwright? I don;t balme Wyness he is a buisnessman who has probably done the best deal for EFC but who is he really?? He will be gone in a few years and there will be no-one left to blame but we and future EFC fans will be left to rue this decision for years to come.
I agree with Bunter. I am embarrassed at the so called PR machine at our club who, at every opportunity, manage to shoot themselves in the foot. On the day of the images and ’details’ regarding costs, it was Wyness alone spouting drivel. Where were the reps from our partners KMBC * Tesco? Then how come within 2/3 days those costs had changed, so too the capacity?
Bear in mind the planned regeneration around Gt Homer st, that should attract outside investment , and if I’m not mistaken that could draw on grants similar to those obtained for the redshite for regeneration of the anfield/breckfield area.
I still think we’re being done up like a kipper to be honest though as the entire deal has no clarity and the history of excuses made by BK & KW for misgivings doesn’t exactly inspire trust does it?
Bear in mind the planned regeneration around Gt Homer st, that should attract outside investment , and if I’m not mistaken that could draw on grants similar to those obtained for the redshite for regeneration of the anfield/breckfield area.
I still think we’re being done up like a kipper to be honest though as the entire deal has no clarity and the history of excuses made by BK & KW for misgivings doesn’t exactly inspire trust does it?
I agree with Bunter. I am embarrassed at the so called PR machine at our club who, at every opportunity, manage to shoot themselves in the foot. On the day of the images and ’details’ regarding costs, it was Wyness alone spouting drivel. Where were the reps from our partners KMBC * Tesco? Then how come within 2/3 days those costs had changed, so too the capacity?
Bear in mind the planned regeneration around Gt Homer st, that should attract outside investment , and if I’m not mistaken that could draw on grants similar to those obtained for the redshite for regeneration of the anfield/breckfield area.
I still think we’re being done up like a kipper to be honest though as the entire deal has no clarity and the history of excuses made by BK & KW for misgivings doesn’t exactly inspire trust does it?
Bear in mind the planned regeneration around Gt Homer st, that should attract outside investment , and if I’m not mistaken that could draw on grants similar to those obtained for the redshite for regeneration of the anfield/breckfield area.
I still think we’re being done up like a kipper to be honest though as the entire deal has no clarity and the history of excuses made by BK & KW for misgivings doesn’t exactly inspire trust does it?
To all those questioning the stadium costs i thought wyness had explained it more than once.
50 million for the land donated by knowsley council.
50 million from tesco’s (probably because they are getting cheap land as part of the deal).
Leaving 50 million for everton to stump up but 25 million of that will come from the sale of goodison park and the naming rights / sponsorships in regards to the new ground. Thats leaves us 25 million to find to complete the project which for a new 50,000 seater stadium you have to admit isnt bad at all.
As for my opinion of the move i dont subscribe to this extremism view that some people have of the everton board (bill making a mint from the deal and running) and the everton fans (being traitors for expressing a view different to others).
I think its inevitable we have to move to a new stadium to further our club and compete with the other premiership clubs that seem to have sugar daddies willing to pay obscene fee’s and wages for average players, a new stadium and increased revenue will help us achieve this.
My only fear like most on here is the move to kirby, i’m not against moving to kirby but i’m fearful that our attendances will drop from the average we get at goodison currently, mainly because some people seem so against the move.
As most things in life though this whole thing revolves around money and you have to ask yourself would you rather risk evertons future by building a stadium in liverpool and putting the club into a huge amount of debt (given the lack of investors) or would you rather move to kirby with little debt and put the future of the club in the hands of everton fans by supporting the club 100% as we all do now and attend the matches?
Doubting that a viable project can be devised for a liverpool stadium i know which one gets my backing.
Stick together.
Al.
50 million for the land donated by knowsley council.
50 million from tesco’s (probably because they are getting cheap land as part of the deal).
Leaving 50 million for everton to stump up but 25 million of that will come from the sale of goodison park and the naming rights / sponsorships in regards to the new ground. Thats leaves us 25 million to find to complete the project which for a new 50,000 seater stadium you have to admit isnt bad at all.
As for my opinion of the move i dont subscribe to this extremism view that some people have of the everton board (bill making a mint from the deal and running) and the everton fans (being traitors for expressing a view different to others).
I think its inevitable we have to move to a new stadium to further our club and compete with the other premiership clubs that seem to have sugar daddies willing to pay obscene fee’s and wages for average players, a new stadium and increased revenue will help us achieve this.
My only fear like most on here is the move to kirby, i’m not against moving to kirby but i’m fearful that our attendances will drop from the average we get at goodison currently, mainly because some people seem so against the move.
As most things in life though this whole thing revolves around money and you have to ask yourself would you rather risk evertons future by building a stadium in liverpool and putting the club into a huge amount of debt (given the lack of investors) or would you rather move to kirby with little debt and put the future of the club in the hands of everton fans by supporting the club 100% as we all do now and attend the matches?
Doubting that a viable project can be devised for a liverpool stadium i know which one gets my backing.
Stick together.
Al.
A VERY POOR BIASED ARTICLE - LCC are offering us land some of the sites are futher away from Goodison than KIKBY! Then their is wheres the funding for these sites without TESCO? & are the LCC giving us the land FOC? A more correct argument is to dispose our non effective chairman who spends his time in London & treats our club like his toy train set which is rusting in the box! We need investment so is now the time to vote the chaiman out? No he has made his American friend a co Director! He may let go if he gets to Kirkby & cash in EFC are a viable club whith so much potential, but I am afraid we have a new Doug Ellis in the making in Mr Bill Blue Kenwright!!!!!!
Al Scott,
Read the costings for the stadium again. Wyness has explained it twice, with different figures each time.
Knowlsey are giving a 99 YEAR LEASE on the land for free. It’s considered worthless in it’s current state, but with a supermarket/stadium built on it, it would be worth £50M.
Tesco are paying that £50M to Knowsley, who will then use it to fund the building of a stadium who will be LEASED to Everton for 99 years.
The actual building should cost £75M, but Tesco will persuade Barr to build it for £50M (why would they give that kind of discount?)
Fitting it out will cost between £10M and £35M, which Everton will have to fund.
Somehow, by Friday, those figures had been changed into, to quote Wyness, "a £150M stadium for less than £100M".
The articles are here: http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0400evertonfc/0150kingsdock/tm_headline=how-new-goodison-will-be-paid-for%26method=full%26objectid=19501491%26siteid=50061-name_page.html and here http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0400evertonfc/0150kingsdock/tm_headline=everton-must-move-to-kirkby%26method=full%26objectid=19466595%26siteid=50061-name_page.html
Read the costings for the stadium again. Wyness has explained it twice, with different figures each time.
Knowlsey are giving a 99 YEAR LEASE on the land for free. It’s considered worthless in it’s current state, but with a supermarket/stadium built on it, it would be worth £50M.
Tesco are paying that £50M to Knowsley, who will then use it to fund the building of a stadium who will be LEASED to Everton for 99 years.
The actual building should cost £75M, but Tesco will persuade Barr to build it for £50M (why would they give that kind of discount?)
Fitting it out will cost between £10M and £35M, which Everton will have to fund.
Somehow, by Friday, those figures had been changed into, to quote Wyness, "a £150M stadium for less than £100M".
The articles are here: http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0400evertonfc/0150kingsdock/tm_headline=how-new-goodison-will-be-paid-for%26method=full%26objectid=19501491%26siteid=50061-name_page.html and here http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0400evertonfc/0150kingsdock/tm_headline=everton-must-move-to-kirkby%26method=full%26objectid=19466595%26siteid=50061-name_page.html
Keith Wyness has outlined rough costings for Everton’s proposed new stadium in Kirkby, within which the club and Tesco will each put £50m towards a stadium worth around £150m.
?The contribution in cash terms from the project partner would be about £50m," said Mr Wyness, despite Tesco emailing Radio Merseyside last week to insist they would not be investing cash into an Everton stadium.
?But we believe we would get about £75m of work for that £50m thanks to the relationships Tesco bring to the table.
?If we were to put that work out to tender it would cost £75m.
?On top of that, the club would have to pay the balance. Our contribution would probably be about £30m-35m funded through the sale of Goodison Park and stadium naming rights.
?Should there be additional improvements needed the club would have to take on a small debt. It means for less than £100m we are getting a stadium worth £150m
taken from NSNO
?The contribution in cash terms from the project partner would be about £50m," said Mr Wyness, despite Tesco emailing Radio Merseyside last week to insist they would not be investing cash into an Everton stadium.
?But we believe we would get about £75m of work for that £50m thanks to the relationships Tesco bring to the table.
?If we were to put that work out to tender it would cost £75m.
?On top of that, the club would have to pay the balance. Our contribution would probably be about £30m-35m funded through the sale of Goodison Park and stadium naming rights.
?Should there be additional improvements needed the club would have to take on a small debt. It means for less than £100m we are getting a stadium worth £150m
taken from NSNO
Hi Dave Thompson,
I dont see a problem here, wyness is just working the numbers like most business men do.
The overall project will be worth £150m but its cost will be less than £100m. Barr will be giving us wholesale prices probably because of future contracts will tesco’s rather than it being something sinister like wooden beams holding the stadium together.
The rest of potential £100m construction will come from everton. A potential of £50 million given that they dont really know exactly how much it will cost which is why they give such vague figures. It could be £25m if things go well it could be £50m if things go bad. Either way its very little debt for a new 50,000 stadium.
To give exact figures will be a little silly as real life isnt like that, just look at the escalating price of wembley. To break it down it looks as though the stadium could be built for £75m at the cheapest and £100m maximum if delays and other unknowns become an issue so to me wyness hasnt really contradicted himself.
I dont see a problem here, wyness is just working the numbers like most business men do.
The overall project will be worth £150m but its cost will be less than £100m. Barr will be giving us wholesale prices probably because of future contracts will tesco’s rather than it being something sinister like wooden beams holding the stadium together.
The rest of potential £100m construction will come from everton. A potential of £50 million given that they dont really know exactly how much it will cost which is why they give such vague figures. It could be £25m if things go well it could be £50m if things go bad. Either way its very little debt for a new 50,000 stadium.
To give exact figures will be a little silly as real life isnt like that, just look at the escalating price of wembley. To break it down it looks as though the stadium could be built for £75m at the cheapest and £100m maximum if delays and other unknowns become an issue so to me wyness hasnt really contradicted himself.
not sure if you read what I posted but, having a belief that we are to spend circa 100 mill is asking for trouble. We know costs rise, but to only have a rough guess as to expenditure is negligent and to me shows either a. we are not a ’full partner’
b. those running the club are clueless as well as potless!!
b. those running the club are clueless as well as potless!!
Someone said in an earlier post that people around the world don’t know where Everton is. I was in the Australian outback (the back of Bourke as they say) once and someone asked if I were a Blue or a Red.WhenI said Blue he said ’Onya Sport!’
I think the fear from the board is if they come out and say the stadium will cost everton £25m which will be covered by the sale of goodison and naming rights only then for delays and other unkowns force us to take out a £25m loan to complete the stadium the fans would call for the heads of the board.
So to be cautious they’ve probably guesstimated how much it will cost at the cheapest and how much it will cost if things go bad and worked the numbers accordingly. I think wyness said £35million maximum for fitting the new stadium out and i’ve read about a £15m contingency pot being put aside just incase things go really really bad so i’m thinking thats were our £50million contribution is coming from although its likely we’ll be paying alot less than that. Nevertheless our stadium will still be worth £150m.
So to be cautious they’ve probably guesstimated how much it will cost at the cheapest and how much it will cost if things go bad and worked the numbers accordingly. I think wyness said £35million maximum for fitting the new stadium out and i’ve read about a £15m contingency pot being put aside just incase things go really really bad so i’m thinking thats were our £50million contribution is coming from although its likely we’ll be paying alot less than that. Nevertheless our stadium will still be worth £150m.
Mark Obrien. That’s the last book of yours I’ll read or buy.
worth 150 mill? Don’t get it! A ground’s value is based on what goes inside, team and supporters, not girders and cafes, we would do well to think that as the way this is being handled we are alienating a huge %age of our supporters.
Daily post poll vote is 93% against Kirby move, no duplicate voting either.
Daily post poll vote is 93% against Kirby move, no duplicate voting either.
I really really want to stay in the city and I live in Runcorn with many other mad match going Evertonians. But if i hear one more person pluck a viable site in the city out of the air or just jump on Bradleys bandwaggon site’s I am going to go mad. Its not about the site for Gods sake. We just cannot afford to build any sort of stadium on our own. When are all these fans groups going to stop banging on about the sites and Give us a genuine alternative. Oh and who do you all think you are alienating the people (scouse people) of Kirkby at every turn. There are lots of Everton brothers over there so shut up!
Still want to stay though.
Still want to stay though.
Juan,
It will be worth £150m because of the ground its on and the stadium itself but it doesnt have to cost £150m in total to construct, infact we already have a leg up of £50m because of knowlsey councils "contribution".
Its like manufacturing a tv for £50 but selling it for £300. This is important for the future should everton want to take out a loan the stadium would be an asset which the loan could then be guaranteed against or should someone want to buy into everton they would be buying some of the stadium (i dont know how much we will be owning) so its important to know its value.
The value of everton is different to the value of the stadium as it includes the value of players and other assets against the amount of the debt we have.
Its scary to think 93% are against the move, i just hope if the move to kirby does go through then we all band together to continue to support otherwise we are doomed to failure in the long term.
It will be worth £150m because of the ground its on and the stadium itself but it doesnt have to cost £150m in total to construct, infact we already have a leg up of £50m because of knowlsey councils "contribution".
Its like manufacturing a tv for £50 but selling it for £300. This is important for the future should everton want to take out a loan the stadium would be an asset which the loan could then be guaranteed against or should someone want to buy into everton they would be buying some of the stadium (i dont know how much we will be owning) so its important to know its value.
The value of everton is different to the value of the stadium as it includes the value of players and other assets against the amount of the debt we have.
Its scary to think 93% are against the move, i just hope if the move to kirby does go through then we all band together to continue to support otherwise we are doomed to failure in the long term.
http://www.bluekipper.com/mbe/wyness_interview_july07.htm
hope this link is useful, can’t for the life of me think why this wasn’t put into the ’public domain’?
hope this link is useful, can’t for the life of me think why this wasn’t put into the ’public domain’?
Hey Tony er.......anyone who votes no is a traitor.....how intelligent am I?
Chris Riley: about that new box you want on the ballot box, What the fuck!
And anyboby who bangs on about not going to games if we move can fuck right off. You would be more suited to the Kop anyway. Now they are traitors.
Chris Riley: about that new box you want on the ballot box, What the fuck!
And anyboby who bangs on about not going to games if we move can fuck right off. You would be more suited to the Kop anyway. Now they are traitors.
A lot of people seem to be throwing a lot of figures around as to the true cost of the stadium, but at the end of the day the club still continue to hide the truth behind this ridiculous exclusivity agreement. One thing i do know though is YOU GET NOTHING FOR FREE IN THIS LIFE, deal of the century or not! The only winners from moving to Kirkby will be Tesco. I like many on this forum will support the blues wherever they play but thinking of future development and developing the Everton brand, Kirkby is a move in the wrong direction.
Everton are probably guaranteed about 35,000 fans at home games, the rest are made up of people who might just go to the odd game, students, visitors and tourists or people who just fancied going on the day. We will not fill a 55,000 stadium in kirby, we might if we move to a location closer to liverpool city centre.
Future revenue in football will be based around the power of the brand, something that clubs like Barca, Milan, Man U and even the kopites seem to be able to exploit, the number of times I have been through williamson sq and seen hundreds of foreign tourists all with LFC bags coming out of the shop or heard people talking about the Anfield stadium tour and museum, if we move to Kirkby you can forget about that! We might save money in the short term but we WILL lose out in the long run. don?t let us become a small town club, vote NO and Keep Everton in the City!
Tony, use your brain and not your emotions. Words like,’traitor’, ’spiritual’ and ’Beatles’ have no place in a rational discussion of the club’s future.
This is f..ken orrible. I cant believe what I’m reading, the resentment, the animosity, towards each other ?
we’re all Evertonians ! ! !
Consider this, we average about 37 thousand for home games, if all the anti Kirkby brigade carry out their threat and refuse to go, we face the possibility of playing in a 55 thousand seater stadium with a regular attendance of twenty odd thousand, is that something the pro kirkby fans can live with ?
If we vote no and Tesco walk away for ever we may never get such an opportunity again, do the Anti Kirkby fans really want that ?
KW’s interviews have only served to divide Evertonians even more, the division appears to be growing more bitter every day. His failure to present the same set of figures on consecutive days when selling us "the deal of the century" terrified half of us
The club - we - need to be unified, but while feelings are so deeply felt on both sides thats easier said than done, we simply must to find common ground,
Why not delay the vote ? If we get it wrong guys, we cant change our minds next season, besides Tesco are doing this only for the benifit of Tesco, they’ll wait
The club - sorry the board - chose to enter an exclusivity period, why not give LCC a period of time to come up with something concrete ? if the board do this and are seen to to this, then failure on the part of LCC would seal the Kirkby deal, thus quelling the nagging doubts of the no voters and giving the yes voters what they wanted
BK chose to take the burden of responsibility, rightly or wrongly he has had a rough ride lately, but he is in a position to redeem himself.
Do the right thing Mr Kenwright before the rifts become to wide to heal
we’re all Evertonians ! ! !
Consider this, we average about 37 thousand for home games, if all the anti Kirkby brigade carry out their threat and refuse to go, we face the possibility of playing in a 55 thousand seater stadium with a regular attendance of twenty odd thousand, is that something the pro kirkby fans can live with ?
If we vote no and Tesco walk away for ever we may never get such an opportunity again, do the Anti Kirkby fans really want that ?
KW’s interviews have only served to divide Evertonians even more, the division appears to be growing more bitter every day. His failure to present the same set of figures on consecutive days when selling us "the deal of the century" terrified half of us
The club - we - need to be unified, but while feelings are so deeply felt on both sides thats easier said than done, we simply must to find common ground,
Why not delay the vote ? If we get it wrong guys, we cant change our minds next season, besides Tesco are doing this only for the benifit of Tesco, they’ll wait
The club - sorry the board - chose to enter an exclusivity period, why not give LCC a period of time to come up with something concrete ? if the board do this and are seen to to this, then failure on the part of LCC would seal the Kirkby deal, thus quelling the nagging doubts of the no voters and giving the yes voters what they wanted
BK chose to take the burden of responsibility, rightly or wrongly he has had a rough ride lately, but he is in a position to redeem himself.
Do the right thing Mr Kenwright before the rifts become to wide to heal
OK let’s cut to the quick: Will those who are against the move expressly state WHAT ARE THEIR PRIMARY OBJECTIONS - please nail your colours to the mast?
Are they:
1. It’s not in the city
2. Are we selling out to Tesco’s etc (don’t trust the board etc)?
3. Something else aimed directly at the board of the club.
I think we need to know, coherently, what else those who object to moving to Kirkby think we should do - Bradley comes up with empty platitudes - too late, too unrealistic, poor sites etc. The vast majority accept that we can neither afford nor realistically achieve (within the footprint) a redevelopment of GP. I note very little objection on the part of fans to leave Goodison (ie I think we have passed that debate point and accept it’s reality)
Therefore we surely have to consider a realistic, achievement objective for the club. This involves looking at the Kirkby option (can we afford it - is it right etc. etc.) By all means raise objections to this option - sensibly and with objective reasoning - I can think of many reasons why one might object but PLEASE DO NOT JUST OBJECT on some flimsy grounds - and please use your heads when you put an argument together. We are in danger of becoming a laughing stock simply by objecting to every move that the club has a plan for. So, stop bickering, be reasonable and let’s solve this matter properly - once and for all.
NSNO
TD
Are they:
1. It’s not in the city
2. Are we selling out to Tesco’s etc (don’t trust the board etc)?
3. Something else aimed directly at the board of the club.
I think we need to know, coherently, what else those who object to moving to Kirkby think we should do - Bradley comes up with empty platitudes - too late, too unrealistic, poor sites etc. The vast majority accept that we can neither afford nor realistically achieve (within the footprint) a redevelopment of GP. I note very little objection on the part of fans to leave Goodison (ie I think we have passed that debate point and accept it’s reality)
Therefore we surely have to consider a realistic, achievement objective for the club. This involves looking at the Kirkby option (can we afford it - is it right etc. etc.) By all means raise objections to this option - sensibly and with objective reasoning - I can think of many reasons why one might object but PLEASE DO NOT JUST OBJECT on some flimsy grounds - and please use your heads when you put an argument together. We are in danger of becoming a laughing stock simply by objecting to every move that the club has a plan for. So, stop bickering, be reasonable and let’s solve this matter properly - once and for all.
NSNO
TD
Toffee Dan; When you state it like that the Anti arguement does look a bit flimsy, but let him who is without flimsy cast the first black pot. Have you tried looking at the Pro side with equal dis . Just how flimsy is that financial/revenue stream/not can’t develop Goodison, won’t, house of cards.
On the ’plus’ side of the pro balance sheet we have 25mill for Goodison?? from whom? for what? in Walton Garden City (thats the tone that some say we use when discussing Kirkby)... 25 Mill for the dubious expensive privilige of knocking down and removing half a billion bricks.
55,000+ Build it and they will come, They didn’t then when the was less competition for the leasure quid in the Bayern season, Oh yes we got 50 oddK Vs Lpool or United but the average was, as it is now 37,000ish.
10Mill extra for Davie to spend? extra to what ? last seasons money (for this season) from the sale of Davies and Kilbane.
Then theres the well know ’revenue stream(s)’ whats all that about then? 50 pound ticket, 8 pound program? 9 pound pie? 10 pound pint? how much to park you car?? in the tesco carpark? how much to get your car unclamped if you park near by? wouldn’t want to impede access to the smakheads drop in centre, or even worse stop the real punters filling their trolleys with more stuff.
But enough of these flimsy points, lets get to the minus side of of the pro balance sheet. just how much and for how long will we be paying off our share?? and just WHAT IS OUR SHARE.
Just tell us honestly, once and for all what the bottom line is....Will the real Slim Whyness please stand up (please stand up)??
What it seems to me is, we are either for or against and try to demonise the other to make our own flimsy cases sound/feel better. Greg Murphy and Marshy put the anti case much better than I ever could.
I’m taking my side and I admit it, coz it just doesn’t ’feel’ right , on faith if you will, as are you.I think its a done deal because its the only deal (see Murphs piece) So I hope you and the others are right and your Blindfaith doesn’t lead you to Humble pie while the Doobie Bros exit stage rich with the Cream.
On the ’plus’ side of the pro balance sheet we have 25mill for Goodison?? from whom? for what? in Walton Garden City (thats the tone that some say we use when discussing Kirkby)... 25 Mill for the dubious expensive privilige of knocking down and removing half a billion bricks.
55,000+ Build it and they will come, They didn’t then when the was less competition for the leasure quid in the Bayern season, Oh yes we got 50 oddK Vs Lpool or United but the average was, as it is now 37,000ish.
10Mill extra for Davie to spend? extra to what ? last seasons money (for this season) from the sale of Davies and Kilbane.
Then theres the well know ’revenue stream(s)’ whats all that about then? 50 pound ticket, 8 pound program? 9 pound pie? 10 pound pint? how much to park you car?? in the tesco carpark? how much to get your car unclamped if you park near by? wouldn’t want to impede access to the smakheads drop in centre, or even worse stop the real punters filling their trolleys with more stuff.
But enough of these flimsy points, lets get to the minus side of of the pro balance sheet. just how much and for how long will we be paying off our share?? and just WHAT IS OUR SHARE.
Just tell us honestly, once and for all what the bottom line is....Will the real Slim Whyness please stand up (please stand up)??
What it seems to me is, we are either for or against and try to demonise the other to make our own flimsy cases sound/feel better. Greg Murphy and Marshy put the anti case much better than I ever could.
I’m taking my side and I admit it, coz it just doesn’t ’feel’ right , on faith if you will, as are you.I think its a done deal because its the only deal (see Murphs piece) So I hope you and the others are right and your Blindfaith doesn’t lead you to Humble pie while the Doobie Bros exit stage rich with the Cream.
This article is the most unthinking, unintelligent piece I have ever read on Toffeeweb.
Traitors for holding a different view to yours?
Wise up, you small-town boy.
Traitors for holding a different view to yours?
Wise up, you small-town boy.
To David Barks,
listen mate, dont let people like Marsh get to you.
Ive seen countless posts on here by miserable bastards like him slagging supporters off because we dont still in Liverpool, however thinly its veiled.
Im in the RAF and its impossible for me to live in Liverpool, however I still get to the game as much as possible and I know where your coming from.
The guy is a tit.
Most of the bellends who slag us off for moving away have not usually been further than Birkenhead or Southport in their lives.
Dont rise to it mate, let them get on with it. You know your a blue and thats all that matters.
listen mate, dont let people like Marsh get to you.
Ive seen countless posts on here by miserable bastards like him slagging supporters off because we dont still in Liverpool, however thinly its veiled.
Im in the RAF and its impossible for me to live in Liverpool, however I still get to the game as much as possible and I know where your coming from.
The guy is a tit.
Most of the bellends who slag us off for moving away have not usually been further than Birkenhead or Southport in their lives.
Dont rise to it mate, let them get on with it. You know your a blue and thats all that matters.
Derek
The thing is I haven’t nailed my colours to either mast. I was dead set against the move and, having weighed up all the options am more inclined to accept the move. I think I have already accepted we can’t stand still. I remain to be convinced by either side and, in such a flux, would simply request that people stop spilling vile in the direction of those who might disagree with them. I’ll just read all I can and make an informed decision when the time comes to vote. In the meantime let’s debate.
Oh, and thanks for the reasoned, sensible response.
TD
The thing is I haven’t nailed my colours to either mast. I was dead set against the move and, having weighed up all the options am more inclined to accept the move. I think I have already accepted we can’t stand still. I remain to be convinced by either side and, in such a flux, would simply request that people stop spilling vile in the direction of those who might disagree with them. I’ll just read all I can and make an informed decision when the time comes to vote. In the meantime let’s debate.
Oh, and thanks for the reasoned, sensible response.
TD
WE are going nowhere if this deal falls through,everybody around us are getting backers,new grounds,spending millions on players.........stand back and look what we are getting,one ex blue for 4m and a loan in...as a season ticket holder since the late 60s this is bad.....bet the rest of the prem are shitting themselves now...we need to forward with a new ground,new investors and new players,2 fingers to liverpool city council who bent over backwards for the red shite...LETS MOVE TO KIRKBY.......YES ,YES ,YES..I live in gateacre but work on sites in kirkby and the place is booming,only being second to liverpool 08 for investmant in merseyside,thats why tesco want to move there and i say lets go with them, , just look around goodison its a dump and over the years i have had numerous cars broken into and vandalised and that is when i find a parking space after getting through all the narrow victorian cobblrd roads,then look at our proposed ground,motorway ,rail bus links,how can we be in the CL and have real madrid,barca,juve coming here. I fear for our future if we dont move on ....my heart is at goodison but my head says move on
Did anyone hear that fat lying twat KW on radio city today,He stated in response to a question about anymore new players coming in.He stated that this was the best quality of players in Evertons history,And that we dont need anymore quality,Having realised what he had said,He tried to backtrack saying we do need quality but we also need bodys.Hence no more new players.I would not beleive a fucking word the fat cunt said about anything.So stay in our city.
I am sorry for any offence caused sincerely to anyone who is overwheight,But like every Evertonian i am emotionaly unstable at the moment as i see this as the most important era in our history.We cant afford to let tham do this to us.none of the statements coming from that man ring true.
Great letter Tony. I agree with every single point made in your article. My two main points are: 1.Why did Liverpool say they would move no further than Stanley Park? Because they have the sense to know it’s too much of a gamble. 2.Kenwright said he would put his reputation on the line over the move to the King’s Dock and look what happened. A pathetic disaster. But thank god it all collapsed before we were in the middle of everything. Do we need a better WARNING SIGN than that? No one should back a ground move while Kenwright’s in charge. HE HIMSELF HAS SHOWN WHY! I would ask every Evertonian not to back the move. Comments like ’it will generate more money’ are misleading. This will only happen if the new ground is in the right place and we are successful.
I agree with saying ’No’ to Kirkby (even though I lived there for the 1st 4 months of my life). But I can understand why the board want it. Tesco are ready to stump up £50m. It’s fine for LCC to suggest alternativer sites, but there is no alternative cash. Tesco’s money only comes with the Kirkby site as it has a top location close to the East Lancs road. If there is an alternative site we have to get alternative funding - it’s that simple. And as we all know, Liverpool had to go to the USA to get their funding. I don’t see business queing up to stump up cash for us. Still, I say ’No’.
cheers
H
cheers
H
Tony is there an airport in Kirby?Where the fuck do i land my jet..
I think your wrong you are liveing in the past.Get over it this move will make the club bigger and better.You call yourself a fan a real fan would do whats right.You are no fan.
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When you consider the penny-pinching attitude of Kenwright & Wyness, the figures for the Kirkby Project look good. I'd prefer to see some enthusiasm from them for alternatives closer to the city, but it's clear that this is a done deal to be rubber-stamped. Personally, I like the look of the stadium pictures. For this 'out of towner', the journey will make no difference - I'll still be queueing at Switch Island forever and it'll still take me ages to get out.
Some people will say that this will mark 'the end of Everton'. I would argue that this regime has already done this. We're not allowed to talk about our history, unless we only refer to Smith & Walker; we can't expect quarter finals, semi finals, finals or trophies; we can't expect good players who can pass and move; we can't expect to be told the truth about out club's on and off-pitch plans; we're supposed to be grateful for staying up, even though we've never been relegated in my lifetime!
But there is one reason to support Kirkby. If and only if, there is no similarly viable alternative to Kirkby, I'll reluctantly support it, for one huge reason: In my opinion, our fastest route to genuine success will be when Kenwright & Wyness are out of the picture and replaced by a serious investor with genuine ambition and business nous. That investor will replace Moyes with a manager who can attract and motivate better players. If that means the dynamic duo fill their pockets, as I suspect will happen within a year of our move, so be it.
By the way, next time you have a pop at 'out of towners', just remember that some of us grew up in Liverpool, still have family & friends in Liverpool, spend more time and money following EFC and still drink in the same pre/post-match pubs as you do!