We Surrender
By Tony Marsh : 20/08/2007 : 
Comments (101) :
Comments (101) : Saturday's abysmal showing at Reading was yet another one to add to the ever-growing list of games Moyes has buggered up. Missing seven of their first team regulars, we should have blown Reading away. What happens, though, is we revert back to that gormless hoofball game, which always allows lesser sides to get a foothold because we constantly give possession away.
What happened to the side that beat Spurs on Tuesday? Are Reading a better side than Spurs? No, they are not; the manager cocked it up again and stood there with that dopey look on his face once we went a goal down. Clueless is what he is. A good start to the season has been flushed down the toilet thanks to the pathetic tactics of our manager. Did Moyes learn nothing from the Spurs game?
We can play football and win games when we do the simple things ? like passing to our teammates. All this kick-and-rush garbbage we witnessed on Saturday is soul-destroying to watch. AJ will be burnt out by November at this rate. Is this shite all Moyes has to offer as a coach? Is this the best he can bring to the table as a manager?
I thought I was beginning to accept Moyes for what he is and would try to get behind him but he makes it so hard to do. Is there anyone out there (in the Moyes Brigade or not) who can say they were pleased with what they saw against Reading? The humiliation watching us play like that is getting me down. We are Everton, FFS, not Watford or Wimbledon.
Another reason we get out-muscled in games is the size of the players in our squad. We give height and weight away to every team we play which is a recipe for disaster in any team sport. A midfield consisting of Osman, Pienaar, Arteta and Carsley all on the pitch at the same time is a joke.
I watched Chelsea play yesterday and I reckon we would give at least 16 stone away across the middle of the park if we played them, which can't be right. Add AJ and Hibbert to that midfield and we have a starting 11 Ken Dodd would be proud of. Even one of our bigger lads, Stubbs, was swatted aside for the Reading goal. We are going back to Kendall Mk 2 and his mighty midgets.
We need more steel and some big-time players who can scrap and battle when the chips are down. Barton would have been ideal. Where's Da Silva gone? At least he gives us other options in the middle of the park and is bigger than 5ft nothing and 7 stone wringing wet.
Forget about doing well in Europe if this is how we approach the games. Romanian waiters and Bulgarian bricklayers will lap it up. Possession is key to winning games and we cannot retain possession for more than 3 seconds. WHY? What do we do all fucking week at Bellefield? Do our training sessions consist of nothing else other than booting the ball down field for AJ to chase? Pathetic.
I know the Moyes Brigade will come on and tell us how great Darling Dave is. How we are better now than any time in the past 20 years. How wonderful things are since Smith left... but it's all bollocks. What is the point in talking two steps forward then two steps back then another sideways because that's all we will ever do unless Moyes gets his act together. Why can't he see what the rest of us see? Tiny players trying to win headers against 6ft-plus defenders won't work. Hoofball doesnt work. Play to our strengths which are passing and moving.
Six points from a possible nine... but it should have been all 9. It's always "what if" with us. We always shoot ourselves in the foot. Please, tell me there is more to come from this manager because I can't handle this crap much longer.
Shit tactics and lack of ideas when going behind. Terrible to watch most of the time. Embarrassing defeats every other week now is all we need to put the icing on the cake for some Joker to take the club out to Kirkby. Then watching Everton play really will be fun.
What's happened to the Fernandes deal? Is Billy K and his techni-coloured bullshit coat playing silly buggers again? Well it's all gone quiet and Manny was supposed to be in the squad for the Reading match. Makes ye proud to be a Blue the way this club's run, doesn't it?
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You must take great pleasure in being known as the biggest dick in Liverpool.
I am not wasting anymore time reading this shit, and I strongly urge any sane evertonian to do the same.
I am not wasting anymore time reading this shit, and I strongly urge any sane evertonian to do the same.
Don’t really comment on other people’s articles but on this occasion I’ll make an exception.
Tony - I read the first paragraph of this and then was stopped in my tracks.
You must get to the doctor’s for your depression - your bitterness is poisoness. You sound like a Kopite mate.
If you are going to be negative be constructive you are just a one trick vile muck spreading pony.
Get a grip...
Tony - I read the first paragraph of this and then was stopped in my tracks.
You must get to the doctor’s for your depression - your bitterness is poisoness. You sound like a Kopite mate.
If you are going to be negative be constructive you are just a one trick vile muck spreading pony.
Get a grip...
i was searching for an article by tony written on wed last week but i remembered.........we won tues night!
i think it is the 15 mins of fame syndrome again!
i think it is the 15 mins of fame syndrome again!
We were a bit unfortunate on Saturday, and the biggest letdown was possibly our most over-rated player, AJ, who should have put us ahead early on, which would have created a totally different game, and should have equalized five minutes from the end (plus injury time) when we were all over them and an equalizer would have made us the most likely winners too.
Reading fought well, and got a soft goal. We, as most teams in the Premiership, are quite poor when we fall behind away from home.
Massive game this weekend against Blackburn, if we can get a win, we have still had a fabulous opening to the season.
Reading fought well, and got a soft goal. We, as most teams in the Premiership, are quite poor when we fall behind away from home.
Massive game this weekend against Blackburn, if we can get a win, we have still had a fabulous opening to the season.
Tony,
You really are 1 sad man!!! Have you no life? To spend that time writing something that you know will just piss people off and make them think your even more of a nob!
I seen your name and didnt really have to read it.... i read the first line.
Change the record, get a life and support someone else you loser!
You really are 1 sad man!!! Have you no life? To spend that time writing something that you know will just piss people off and make them think your even more of a nob!
I seen your name and didnt really have to read it.... i read the first line.
Change the record, get a life and support someone else you loser!
Tony,
I totally agree with you mate. I think we must be watching different games to all these other lads. . .
THE LONG BALL GAME DOES NOT WORK FOR US ! . . .
Having Lescot or Yobo hoof a long ball up to Victor to ’try’,
(hadly ever succeeding), and flick on is a complete waste of possession.
I’d sooner them have a fucking long shot from our own 18 yard box. . . or better still, I’d sooner see one of our ’creative’ midfielders come back, take the ball off them then try and dribble it all the way into the other teams net. At least they might go on an half decent run and beat a few players.
We must stop giving possession away so easily. Allowing teams to come straight back at us.
Pass the ball around - there’s no rush.
Wacking the ball up field because you don’t know what else to do with it, is not an option...
I totally agree with you mate. I think we must be watching different games to all these other lads. . .
THE LONG BALL GAME DOES NOT WORK FOR US ! . . .
Having Lescot or Yobo hoof a long ball up to Victor to ’try’,
(hadly ever succeeding), and flick on is a complete waste of possession.
I’d sooner them have a fucking long shot from our own 18 yard box. . . or better still, I’d sooner see one of our ’creative’ midfielders come back, take the ball off them then try and dribble it all the way into the other teams net. At least they might go on an half decent run and beat a few players.
We must stop giving possession away so easily. Allowing teams to come straight back at us.
Pass the ball around - there’s no rush.
Wacking the ball up field because you don’t know what else to do with it, is not an option...
Tony, I’m assuming you are a real person in regard to these postings and not some clever "tool" designed to create debate. (surely run it’s course now if true).
I believe you suffer from a chronic case of what almost all of us has. Dissonance is a word used to describe it. The gap between your ideal self and the one you accept/suspect somewhere within your psyche as your real self is too large.
I wager the sentence "who does he think he is" launches you into internal apoplexy. Please try to help yourself. Either don’t expect so much of yourself perhaps its true you don’t have what it takes to be prime minister or efc manager, the world won’t let you (even if it’s true you could do a better job once there), and or recognise that actually you’ve done ok as it is. You mentioned kids ( I was shocked ! and a bit worried) I bet they still love you .. do they see your postings ? Focusing all that discontent and frustration on everton/moyes et al may be ok for now but really where will it end ? Even you know you don’t make much sense as you work yourself up. Done out of love Tony honest.. ps I agree Davey’s tactics are often shockingly agricultural. If only we could do something about eh Tony ?.... sorry tee hee.
I believe you suffer from a chronic case of what almost all of us has. Dissonance is a word used to describe it. The gap between your ideal self and the one you accept/suspect somewhere within your psyche as your real self is too large.
I wager the sentence "who does he think he is" launches you into internal apoplexy. Please try to help yourself. Either don’t expect so much of yourself perhaps its true you don’t have what it takes to be prime minister or efc manager, the world won’t let you (even if it’s true you could do a better job once there), and or recognise that actually you’ve done ok as it is. You mentioned kids ( I was shocked ! and a bit worried) I bet they still love you .. do they see your postings ? Focusing all that discontent and frustration on everton/moyes et al may be ok for now but really where will it end ? Even you know you don’t make much sense as you work yourself up. Done out of love Tony honest.. ps I agree Davey’s tactics are often shockingly agricultural. If only we could do something about eh Tony ?.... sorry tee hee.
Tony,the fact of the matter is that everton have improved under Moyes. A fourth placed finish and a sixth placed finish albeit sandwiching a crap season is far, far better than anything done in the previous decade. Now Moyes is frustrating and i agree with you at times when we go behind it seems that he has no ideas but i can live with that for the moment and the reason why is quite simple Tony, when Moyes was brought to our club he was seen as a manager who could have great potential. Lets face it he had no premier league or indeed european experiance, he was not known for tactical nouce. He has got the best out of everton without these skills/experiances and he has, albeit slowly, but still he has developed as a manager and will continue to do so. Come on Tony get behind everton and the man who despite his mum dying has guided us to a great away victory at spurs and we beat a wigan side that tops the league, man u could not beat reading at old trafford!
Hi Tony, just to reiterate my question from a previous post, who would you like to see coming in to Everton if Moyes’ left?
1) Who is there that would be interested in the job esp. given the financial constraints, and 2)does that person have a better/more succesful record than Moyes?
Cheers
1) Who is there that would be interested in the job esp. given the financial constraints, and 2)does that person have a better/more succesful record than Moyes?
Cheers
Tony, yet another hate filled diatribe. I am at a complete loss as to why the gaurdians of this site give you so much space.
Variety and difference of opinions are the lifeblood of any regular coloumnists, but you are like an old gramaphone with the needle stuck in the groove.
You hate Moyes, you hate Wyness, you hate Kenwright, you must be a joy to live with!
There is so little pleasure in your life mate, why don’t you run off and join the nearest monastrey.
On second thoughts, you would probably be thrown out after a couple of days,’the foods shite, the beds too hard,the abbots bent’
I’m not sure on your current status, whether or not you have to work, but I bet you were really popular in the workplace(not)amongst your peer group.
You really are one of life’s perpetual moaners, who takes absolute joy after Everton suffer any reverse in fortunes.
Sadly, we are not at the stage where we can win every game we play, but most of us recognise the progress that has been made, and are still honest enough to acknowledge when the team disappoints, either in playing style or substance.
The difference is the manner in which we express that disappointment, you just come out with the most negative bile, but sadly never change the script.
Variety and difference of opinions are the lifeblood of any regular coloumnists, but you are like an old gramaphone with the needle stuck in the groove.
You hate Moyes, you hate Wyness, you hate Kenwright, you must be a joy to live with!
There is so little pleasure in your life mate, why don’t you run off and join the nearest monastrey.
On second thoughts, you would probably be thrown out after a couple of days,’the foods shite, the beds too hard,the abbots bent’
I’m not sure on your current status, whether or not you have to work, but I bet you were really popular in the workplace(not)amongst your peer group.
You really are one of life’s perpetual moaners, who takes absolute joy after Everton suffer any reverse in fortunes.
Sadly, we are not at the stage where we can win every game we play, but most of us recognise the progress that has been made, and are still honest enough to acknowledge when the team disappoints, either in playing style or substance.
The difference is the manner in which we express that disappointment, you just come out with the most negative bile, but sadly never change the script.
Mark theres no point in speculating on other managers
we all know Moyes is here to stay.What concerns me is why DM doesnt realise after 5 years the best way for us to play.We were fantastic at Spurs playing nice football then we revert back to kick and rush against lesser opposistion Reading reserves WHY?
we all know Moyes is here to stay.What concerns me is why DM doesnt realise after 5 years the best way for us to play.We were fantastic at Spurs playing nice football then we revert back to kick and rush against lesser opposistion Reading reserves WHY?
Reading Reserves? Who was missing Tony? I thought they had their best 11 out.
On another day McFadden would have scored or Johnson would have scored. Had we got one we’d have got two. Only Everton playeed in the second half and we really had them on the back foot. I was really pleased with the way they played after big vic went off. I think had we had an Anelka type player then we’d have won. We need a top top quality striker and a Fernandes type player in the middle.
On another day McFadden would have scored or Johnson would have scored. Had we got one we’d have got two. Only Everton playeed in the second half and we really had them on the back foot. I was really pleased with the way they played after big vic went off. I think had we had an Anelka type player then we’d have won. We need a top top quality striker and a Fernandes type player in the middle.
Yeah fair point Tony, and to be fair I’m an advocate of Moyes - I don’t think that given the financial constraints there’s a better manager in the premiership. I’m just intrugued as to whether any of the anti moyes’ brigade have an alternative in mind
I think there is some validity in Tonys argument, even if it is a little overly negative. I lost count of the number of times on saturday Stubbs and Howard in particular launched big high balls forward when it was clear that Bikey was winning everything against Johnson. Osman and Piennar also were highly unlikely to win much in the air, but the tactic stayed the same until Mcfadden came on. Hopefully if/when Fernandes joins we’ll play a bit more on the deck through midfield, otherwise I don’t see the point in investing so much money in a ball playing central midfielder. They can all play football, Cars and Phil Neville apart, so hopefully they will be let off the leash and told to express themselves. A few through balls on the deck for Johnson to run onto instead of balls over the top into the corner would make a nice change.
Tony although most of what you speak is pure dribble please don’t stop. You seem to be about the only thing at the moment that unites Evertonians.
But don’t stop at football lets hear your views on politics, finance, tv and everything else.
Possibly some of the most outrageous opinions ever but you are pure entertainment all the way. Keep them going.
But don’t stop at football lets hear your views on politics, finance, tv and everything else.
Possibly some of the most outrageous opinions ever but you are pure entertainment all the way. Keep them going.
Sorry to correct you Steve but Reading had 7 of their first team regulars out including Leroy Mita so were definitely there for the taking.I actually thought we played the right game but Arteta had a nightmare (I am afraid he might have heard that Fernandes was not coming and Yakubu was definitely not coming)and he was not motivated and/or carrying an injury.Anichebe was also poor failing to hold the ball on most occasions but apart from their goal they didnt trouble us (Nor we for that matter.We willundoutedly get more of the same this season without more creativity in midfield and more power up front.
I was going to bother..but i cant help myself...
Tony , you are a sad sad twat.
That really does sum you up superbly
I hope somebody takes your crayons off you
Tony , you are a sad sad twat.
That really does sum you up superbly
I hope somebody takes your crayons off you
Its funny how when we beat Spurs and were top of the league there was no article from Tony Marsh. Why do you only post negative Tony? Just once it would be nice to actually post something positive. Your too small minded for that I guess.
To be honest I didn’t even read your aticle. I read the first paragraph realised it was your usual boring lets run the club down nonsense and gave up.
Boring. [Yawn]
To be honest I didn’t even read your aticle. I read the first paragraph realised it was your usual boring lets run the club down nonsense and gave up.
Boring. [Yawn]
Tony is spot on about the football we play - it’s embarrasing to watch us try and string a number of positive collective passes together, the players just cant do it. I think Moyes has done well - against the odds due to the shabby way the club is run. But to my mind, the main reason we are where we are at the moment is the collective dross of 15 of the 20 teams in the premiership. As much as us English like to shout out about how superior the Premiership is too every other European league - Moyes has shown that all you need in England is organisation, a good set piece taker and a willingness to chase lost causes and you can become a top six side all be it 35 points behind the top 4.
Are you totally insane? You miserable twat.
C’m’ere - I know you’re doing this for the wind up, which is why I think it’s ok to call you a complete tosser.
Actually, hang on - hooray I’m angry about someything other than bloody Kirby. Tony, I take it back, you’re not a sad prat after all, you’re a star!
C’m’ere - I know you’re doing this for the wind up, which is why I think it’s ok to call you a complete tosser.
Actually, hang on - hooray I’m angry about someything other than bloody Kirby. Tony, I take it back, you’re not a sad prat after all, you’re a star!
Tony Marsh remains a peculiar visitor to this site. There are few who can write (and invite fury) as he can. Whether you like it or not, the general drift of Tony’s article is, in my eyes, correct.
It doesn’t matter who you are facing, Chelsea or FC Splogalogski, if you cannot keep the ball under control and play it (rather than hoof it and hope), the chances of you scoring are remote. Yes, you may get a goal out of nothing, as Jimmy Mac almost did on Saturday, but that is truly up to the Gods...you haven’t created your own destiny so to speak.
Of course we’ve made huge strides under Moyes (I’m a big fan) but let’s not forget that this team dismantled Spurs with ease, at the Lane, on Tuesday. Why is it deemed anti-Moyes to question where the football disappeared to on Saturday?
No one is advocating that Moyes should leave (at least I hope not) but this year he’s got what is effectively his team. Consequently you would expect his team to play his style of football. I just hope that he views the Tottenham game as the benchmark for this season...not too much to ask for, is it?
It doesn’t matter who you are facing, Chelsea or FC Splogalogski, if you cannot keep the ball under control and play it (rather than hoof it and hope), the chances of you scoring are remote. Yes, you may get a goal out of nothing, as Jimmy Mac almost did on Saturday, but that is truly up to the Gods...you haven’t created your own destiny so to speak.
Of course we’ve made huge strides under Moyes (I’m a big fan) but let’s not forget that this team dismantled Spurs with ease, at the Lane, on Tuesday. Why is it deemed anti-Moyes to question where the football disappeared to on Saturday?
No one is advocating that Moyes should leave (at least I hope not) but this year he’s got what is effectively his team. Consequently you would expect his team to play his style of football. I just hope that he views the Tottenham game as the benchmark for this season...not too much to ask for, is it?
Tony’s arguments would be alot more easy to accept if he just occaisionally posted something positive.
Alot of good things have happened but Tony never comments on them. He never did a big post about how great it was to finish 4th or last seasons 6th.
Everytime there’s bad news Tony is there with a 2000 word essay but beat Spurs and go top of the league and all he can manage is a sentence of begruding praise.
Alot of good things have happened but Tony never comments on them. He never did a big post about how great it was to finish 4th or last seasons 6th.
Everytime there’s bad news Tony is there with a 2000 word essay but beat Spurs and go top of the league and all he can manage is a sentence of begruding praise.
Tony,
Your hoofball assessment is correct, and we do have a small lightweight team, but how this would be improved by Joey ’The Giant Heavyweight ’ Barton just totally contradicts your argument.
You might also be more palatable to a majority of Toffeeweb visitors if you also posted when the team does something right - like at Spurs - and in a positive, or even neutral manner.
Don’t choke on your own bile mate, life’s too short.
Your hoofball assessment is correct, and we do have a small lightweight team, but how this would be improved by Joey ’The Giant Heavyweight ’ Barton just totally contradicts your argument.
You might also be more palatable to a majority of Toffeeweb visitors if you also posted when the team does something right - like at Spurs - and in a positive, or even neutral manner.
Don’t choke on your own bile mate, life’s too short.
You can see if we had Fernandes and Yakubu we probably would have gotton something out of the game - so thats progress if all goes well this week.
p.s.. Tony, you’re a bellend.
p.s.. Tony, you’re a bellend.
Tony, you are a sad man...
What do you expect from us? We are not going to win or even play well in every game. We played very poorly but the progess is there for everyone to see. Im sick of so called fans with an attitude as rotten as yours.
What do you expect from us? We are not going to win or even play well in every game. We played very poorly but the progess is there for everyone to see. Im sick of so called fans with an attitude as rotten as yours.
Dan I am not suggesting we should win every game.I am used to Everton losing by now but you miss the point.We slaughter Spurs at thier place by playing in the correct way.We then go to Reading
who have 7 men out and instead of taking it to them we allow them to run the game and have the ball the ball by continually booting it up the field.It was shocking to see such a transformation in only 4 days.3 points pissed away in a game we should of walked,I dont see any posotives in that sorry.
who have 7 men out and instead of taking it to them we allow them to run the game and have the ball the ball by continually booting it up the field.It was shocking to see such a transformation in only 4 days.3 points pissed away in a game we should of walked,I dont see any posotives in that sorry.
ever met an angry woman with pmt on amphetamine sulphate ?
i have , and reading this article reminded me of her....bad times
but with us lacking height and weight to other prem sides , moyes will buy a galaxy of stars to solve this issue.it takes a long long time for everton to sign players ,so jabba the hut and chewbacca will be perfect....good times.
actually i wonder if there is a stat for the average weight and height for each prem team ?
but i have to admit we do have our fair share of short arses and not many brick shithouses.(sorry for the terminology)
tony , there is ’some’ truths in what you say but its lost becouse your volume is too load mate.
actually after the first paragraph i just imagined tony is a pseudonym for andy van der meyde lol , it made the read much more bearable
i have , and reading this article reminded me of her....bad times
but with us lacking height and weight to other prem sides , moyes will buy a galaxy of stars to solve this issue.it takes a long long time for everton to sign players ,so jabba the hut and chewbacca will be perfect....good times.
actually i wonder if there is a stat for the average weight and height for each prem team ?
but i have to admit we do have our fair share of short arses and not many brick shithouses.(sorry for the terminology)
tony , there is ’some’ truths in what you say but its lost becouse your volume is too load mate.
actually after the first paragraph i just imagined tony is a pseudonym for andy van der meyde lol , it made the read much more bearable
Tony;
do you not think it is time for you to take a holiday?
Your love of Everton(sic) seems to be making you ill. Persistent rantings is surely the first road to the nuthuouse.
do you not think it is time for you to take a holiday?
Your love of Everton(sic) seems to be making you ill. Persistent rantings is surely the first road to the nuthuouse.
Your act’s good but you’ve been on too long!!!!
Whilst I don’t agree with the tone (no pun intended) of Tony’s missive, I believe it is borne of an adherence to the principle of NSNO. I share Tony’s frustration that we are unable to play teams like Reading off the park. I believe Tony, as I do, gets almost to tearing the hair out stage when we fail to play effective pass and move football, of which we are capable. We LOST the game (arguably deservedly) trying to our battle the battlers of Reading and Tony rightly points out that our small midfield is at a physical disadvantage in trying to do so :-(
Whilst we have yet to evidence we are consistently capable of the free flowing football played by the likes of Man U and Arsenal, surely it is ’School of Science’ rather than ’Dogs of War’ we should be aiming for in every game. OF course, when we don’t have the ball we have to work 100% to get it back, but to me, all too often, we give the ball away and exhibit a lack of movement and creativity when in posesssion. For these reasons I have a degree of sympathy for the thrust of Tony’s article, if not the abusive style in which it is written. COYB!
Whilst we have yet to evidence we are consistently capable of the free flowing football played by the likes of Man U and Arsenal, surely it is ’School of Science’ rather than ’Dogs of War’ we should be aiming for in every game. OF course, when we don’t have the ball we have to work 100% to get it back, but to me, all too often, we give the ball away and exhibit a lack of movement and creativity when in posesssion. For these reasons I have a degree of sympathy for the thrust of Tony’s article, if not the abusive style in which it is written. COYB!
I watched Everton win the league in 69/70,Then i watched us when we where shite in the 70s and early 80s.Then i had the best feeling in the world in the middle and late 80s.Then back to shite in the 90s apart from 95,The point is you will always LOVE EVERTON.I dont think Tony hates us when we play crap,He,s probably as desperate for us to finish in the top 4.The fact is he is right when he says we should play to our strengths,It was 3 points givin away against Reading.Especially after the Tottenham game.I think Tony should understand that were all desperate to finish above them twats across the park so stirring up hatred against the manager and to a lesser extent certain players is toally wrong,It wont serve any purpose only to make the club suffer.
Look Tony, even the best teams can infuriate their fans. I can well recall the likes of Rats hoofing a speculative ball up front on more than several occasions! It peed me off but we had a 2-time title winning side in those days, so I never got bitter about it.
As others have said here, you sometimes make a valid point but you totally lose respect by letting loose with over-the-top rants.
If one was to characterise your writing style by comparison with a footie team, I’d be forced to say you resemble Wimbledon in the days of ’Fash the Bash’. School of Science you aint!
As others have said here, you sometimes make a valid point but you totally lose respect by letting loose with over-the-top rants.
If one was to characterise your writing style by comparison with a footie team, I’d be forced to say you resemble Wimbledon in the days of ’Fash the Bash’. School of Science you aint!
Chris,Your talking about when we had the best holding center forward in Sharpy and the 2nd best in Andy Gray,We were the best midfield in the world at the time.The hoof that Rats used was few and far between.What Tony was sayin was its became a regular tactic.
Unbelievable,
we all said after the Wigan game, after all the negative posts about a game we just won, what would be the response when we inevitably lost a game. And here it is, a 1-0 loss to a team that held Man U. to a 0-0 draw with 10 men and barely lost to Chelsea 2-1. We had a bad game, Arteta had a shocking game, was Moyes to blame for every one of his corners or crosses that couldn’t get past the first man??? The fact is that our best player had a terrible game, and AJ missed a wide open goal, but is this going to happen every game? The answer is no!! Teams lose, it happens. Are Man U. a worse side than us, because they couldn’t get a goal against them either, but we actually hit the post twice, so we were literally an inch away from taking something from a very tough away fixture. Is it so hard just to say, we had a bad game, Arteta had a very rare terrible game, AJ missed a wide open goal, we have 5 first team players out including our starting center back who played every minute of last season, and lets hope we play better next game. You were on here saying how terrible a team we were after the Wigan game, then we slaughtered Spurs with that exact same team, so what do you know Marsh??
we all said after the Wigan game, after all the negative posts about a game we just won, what would be the response when we inevitably lost a game. And here it is, a 1-0 loss to a team that held Man U. to a 0-0 draw with 10 men and barely lost to Chelsea 2-1. We had a bad game, Arteta had a shocking game, was Moyes to blame for every one of his corners or crosses that couldn’t get past the first man??? The fact is that our best player had a terrible game, and AJ missed a wide open goal, but is this going to happen every game? The answer is no!! Teams lose, it happens. Are Man U. a worse side than us, because they couldn’t get a goal against them either, but we actually hit the post twice, so we were literally an inch away from taking something from a very tough away fixture. Is it so hard just to say, we had a bad game, Arteta had a very rare terrible game, AJ missed a wide open goal, we have 5 first team players out including our starting center back who played every minute of last season, and lets hope we play better next game. You were on here saying how terrible a team we were after the Wigan game, then we slaughtered Spurs with that exact same team, so what do you know Marsh??
Totally agree with some of what Tony says. Ok theres alot I dont agree with but how alot of peolple cant agree with Tony on his points about the standard of football sometimes is beyond me. I was cheering like the best of us after the Spurs win, but that display against Reading was shite. And why? The football played was crap, cant keep possession, hoofball. Were we all watching the same game lads? We all know what standard we can play to yet for whatever reason, when the going gets tough and we need to dig in, we hoof it up the pitch and lose possession all the time. Why is it wrong us to expect a bit of classy joined up football that we KNOW they can play? If we knew to expect Wimbledon FC type football every week then we wouldnt be complaining would we?! This is what infuriates Tony and alot of us sometimes. I rate Reading as a good hard working side, but we must aspire to be beating the likes of them.
By the way,What has happened with Manny,Also how come Sky know more than EVERTONFC.COM about yakubu.More shite from the club about who we were gunner sign only for this and only for fuckin that.They think were fuckin thick.Where are you Bill Kenwright, Stand up and be counted you said to all EVERTONIANS not long ago,So where are you.You know you cant do the job so get out now while you still have face.Sir John Moores will be turning in his grave for what you are doing to this institution.He gave everything for this club of ours,Can you say the same.I dont think so otherwise you would open your mouth on Tele like you always do when we do well.
If I was Steve Coppell and watched Everton against Spurs, my thought would be "If we give them time and space to play the ball around, they will slaughter us" so I would come up with a formation and tactic which prevents Everton doing that. Spurs are a much more adventurous team than Reading which is why we found the space and time to pass the ball around against them.
It isn’t rocket science, but a little common sense will tell you that the lesser skilled team (in this case Reading) will deny time and space to the superior team and hope to steal a goal.
It’s exactly what we do when we play Chelsea or Man Utd - we don’t let them play the ball around the way they want to.
That is why we played so differently against Spurs than we did against Reading, not because of Moyes limitations
It isn’t rocket science, but a little common sense will tell you that the lesser skilled team (in this case Reading) will deny time and space to the superior team and hope to steal a goal.
It’s exactly what we do when we play Chelsea or Man Utd - we don’t let them play the ball around the way they want to.
That is why we played so differently against Spurs than we did against Reading, not because of Moyes limitations
Could we give credit where it is due? Manchester United kept the football on the ground, played brilliantly - with players like Rooney and Ronaldo on the pitch. How many goals were they able to score against Reading a mere week ago?
We have been winning 1-0 smash and grab for years now and when one team does that to us, we suddenly say that we can?t play? Well the truth lies somewhere in between. Reading is a decent team, playing at home. It was always going to be tough. We did deserve a draw, how often would AJ miss sitters like the one he did on Saturday?
Does every one really expect joga bonito against a team that doesn?t give you half a second to compose yourself? Sure I would like to see us play with arsenal like passing finesse, but are Osman, Neville, Carsley, Hibbert the players to do it with?
Yes we did well against Tottenham. But Spurs gave us the time and space that would make 3rd division teams would look like Barcelona. There will be teams other than Reading who would employ the same tactics against us. To counter them we need the extra amount of skill which Moyes is trying to procure in form of Fernandes and Yakubu. Until then, games like these will always be a bit of a lottery.
As much as it saddens me to say it, we will just have to live with it ?.
We have been winning 1-0 smash and grab for years now and when one team does that to us, we suddenly say that we can?t play? Well the truth lies somewhere in between. Reading is a decent team, playing at home. It was always going to be tough. We did deserve a draw, how often would AJ miss sitters like the one he did on Saturday?
Does every one really expect joga bonito against a team that doesn?t give you half a second to compose yourself? Sure I would like to see us play with arsenal like passing finesse, but are Osman, Neville, Carsley, Hibbert the players to do it with?
Yes we did well against Tottenham. But Spurs gave us the time and space that would make 3rd division teams would look like Barcelona. There will be teams other than Reading who would employ the same tactics against us. To counter them we need the extra amount of skill which Moyes is trying to procure in form of Fernandes and Yakubu. Until then, games like these will always be a bit of a lottery.
As much as it saddens me to say it, we will just have to live with it ?.
Fully agree with Alidair and Nigel that everyone from day 1 is fighting for survivle apart from the top 4,We have to have the mentality of a relegation battle attitude from day 1 ourselves and keep it going right throughout the season,tHEN WE COULD FINISH IN THE TOP 4.TONY WAS SAYING WHY SHOULD WE ACCEPT THAT WHEN THE OTHER TEAM DECIDE TO SHOW MUSCLE WE CAVE IN.
To be honest, I think we all have valid points!
I think that some of these insults aimed at Mr Marsh are a bit unneccessary, but anyway:
I think the problem with the ’hoofball’ tactic employed against reading (besides the fact that it’s ugly and predictable), was the fact that Anichebe looked absolutely fucked from his exploits midweek. He’s still a young lad, and I reckon some forget that and expect too much, too soon.
People criticise the 4-5-1 formation as dull and negative, but it probably would’ve worked better against a team like Reading, who had two men on Artetas back throughout. Pienaar playing from the start might have allowed us to get the ball down and play- something that only really happened in any sense when McFadden came on.
4-5-1 is a supposedly negative tactic that tnds to bring out our better football. 4-4-2, an attacking formation that leaves our only real source of creativity prone to being shackled-thus ’hoofball’. You can’t win any way you look at it Moyesey, so you might as well go and eat worms. At least until (hopefully!) Fernendes arrives...
I think the problem with the ’hoofball’ tactic employed against reading (besides the fact that it’s ugly and predictable), was the fact that Anichebe looked absolutely fucked from his exploits midweek. He’s still a young lad, and I reckon some forget that and expect too much, too soon.
People criticise the 4-5-1 formation as dull and negative, but it probably would’ve worked better against a team like Reading, who had two men on Artetas back throughout. Pienaar playing from the start might have allowed us to get the ball down and play- something that only really happened in any sense when McFadden came on.
4-5-1 is a supposedly negative tactic that tnds to bring out our better football. 4-4-2, an attacking formation that leaves our only real source of creativity prone to being shackled-thus ’hoofball’. You can’t win any way you look at it Moyesey, so you might as well go and eat worms. At least until (hopefully!) Fernendes arrives...
Whenever Tony Marsh contributes his no-nonsense analysis to this website, we get the same old predictable chorus of complaints, asking why he is allowed the space he is given to spout his ’bile’?
Well, as some of your fellow fans concede, Tony is actually talking a lot of sense. I know you don’t like it but, hey! love is blind: a portion of fans don’t want to hear anything bad about the team they love. I say to you this: don’t read Tony’s column!!! It’s not for you.
You are satisfied losing to a team we should be beating, because they manged to hold Man Utd to a draw and give Chelsea a tough game; Tony’s not, and neither am I. You are satisfied watching hoofball, and seeing us fail to adapt our tactics to deal with or counter the more intelligent threat presented by Steve Coppell and his players; Tony’s not, and neither am I
.
Nothing you people write changes the analysis Tony and I make with our own eyes when we watch the team play. Commenting on that is what this website is all about and you idiots who claim that critical fans like us "hate Everton" or should be supporting someone else simply have no idea what you are talking about.
If you really must comment next time, try actually watching how we play, not comparing it with 5 years ago, or accepting that perhaps it’s okay for us to lose this game since we have won a couple already... just watch how we actually play the football over 90 minutes. Nothing else. Then come back on here and tell us Tony is wrong.
Beacuse he’s not. And the only way Everton will improve is if those failings Tony points out are recognized and dealt with ? not brushed under the carpet beacuse "Moyes is the best manager we could hope for". Why can’t you Marsh-muggers see that?
listen micheal,Tony does not know how to word what he is trying to say.I fel exactly the same emotions as Tony,you read my contribution on thelinks on this site you will know what i am talkin about,Sorry about spelling.
I thought Reading played well personally, 7 men out or not. They never gave us a second and beat us like we beat many better teams than us 1 nil a couple of seasons ago. You win some you loose some, don’t read too much into it.
The Reading game was the first game I’ve seen this season and for the first 60 minutes I wondered how we’d beaten Spurs. The Blues were terrible until McFadden and Pienaar came on as subs. Did Hibbett complete a pass to an Everton player? Stubbs continually hoofed the ball up field. I think Yobo was missed on defense and thought it was one of those games that Cahill used to pop up with a goal. C’est la vie.
I’m definitely not advocating Moyes dismissal but I will be turning the air blue if the bench for Saturday’s game is Jagielka, Baines, Fernandez, Yakubu and Ruddy
I’m definitely not advocating Moyes dismissal but I will be turning the air blue if the bench for Saturday’s game is Jagielka, Baines, Fernandez, Yakubu and Ruddy
Ron, you obviously missed the 40yd cross field pass that Hibbert made in the first half. The sort of pass Beckham would have been proud of.
Sadly he wasn’t much cop for the rest of the game. I also put him at fault for their goal much more than Stubbsy being pushed out of the way. It is time for him to go. Hopefully jags, Da Silva et al will impress in the game against Barnsley and we will see them improving the line up at Blackburn
Sadly he wasn’t much cop for the rest of the game. I also put him at fault for their goal much more than Stubbsy being pushed out of the way. It is time for him to go. Hopefully jags, Da Silva et al will impress in the game against Barnsley and we will see them improving the line up at Blackburn
The problem with Tony Marsh posts is you know what they are going to say before you read them. Surely the point of posting a comment or article is to engage the reader. He is patently no longer succeeding in doing this. His views lack balance and seem to totally blame the manager for everything without placing any responsibility elsewhere. He has gained a lot of reaction to his letter but that does not mean he has excited controversy. It seems to me reading the comments above, he has simply caused exhasperation!
I agree with much of the analysis in this article. There are significant physical and technical flaws and deficiencies in the players Moyes has to use. However, I believe the conclusion (or in Marshy’s case the hardened preconception) is incorrect. The time for the manager to go is when he consistently leads this bunch to 4th or 6th from the bottom of the league, not the top.
Yes, Tony’s points are repetitive and we’ve all read them before, but in amongst all the bluster there is a valid point or two.
For the past 10 years at least we’ve resorted to hoofball far too often, whether or not Dunc was on the pitch, and it’s not changed since he left. Even against Spurs AJ was too often the target of a long ball on his head (rather than to chase, which is where he excels) - somehow I’m sure he won a few against Gardner and Rocha, as did Anichebe, but that doesn’t mean the tactic was effective. The goals at White Hart Lane came from people like Osman and Mikky running with the ball, passing it or winning a foul, not from flick-ons or balls over the top.
Which is why I can understand Tony Marsh’s frustrations that we don’t seem to have gone out against lesser opposition with a similar mindset. I just wish the players could have the big club mentality on the pitch that we, as fans, have on the stands. Teams crumble against Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal and even occasionally the Red Shite because they get intimidated by the ’talent’ that’s facing them. We aren’t able to instil that fear in the opposition often enough because we don’t maintain possession well. Coaching how to keep a ball, and imbuing your players with a winning mentality is something that Moyes still underperforms at.
Doesn’t mean I don’t think he’s done a great job, because I do. Just wish he’d realise that we don’t need to play like a lower-half team to win games, especially against relegation fodder. We can scare the crap out of anybody on our day, so why not every week?
For the past 10 years at least we’ve resorted to hoofball far too often, whether or not Dunc was on the pitch, and it’s not changed since he left. Even against Spurs AJ was too often the target of a long ball on his head (rather than to chase, which is where he excels) - somehow I’m sure he won a few against Gardner and Rocha, as did Anichebe, but that doesn’t mean the tactic was effective. The goals at White Hart Lane came from people like Osman and Mikky running with the ball, passing it or winning a foul, not from flick-ons or balls over the top.
Which is why I can understand Tony Marsh’s frustrations that we don’t seem to have gone out against lesser opposition with a similar mindset. I just wish the players could have the big club mentality on the pitch that we, as fans, have on the stands. Teams crumble against Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal and even occasionally the Red Shite because they get intimidated by the ’talent’ that’s facing them. We aren’t able to instil that fear in the opposition often enough because we don’t maintain possession well. Coaching how to keep a ball, and imbuing your players with a winning mentality is something that Moyes still underperforms at.
Doesn’t mean I don’t think he’s done a great job, because I do. Just wish he’d realise that we don’t need to play like a lower-half team to win games, especially against relegation fodder. We can scare the crap out of anybody on our day, so why not every week?
Perhaps it was a blessing in diguise.
Moyes doesn’t change a winning a team, unless he is forced to. Well we didn’t win, we played better after McFadden and Pienaar came (and particularly after Hibbert went off). Just maybe DM will change things for Blackburn and we see the type of line up that everyone wanted before the season started.
Moyes doesn’t change a winning a team, unless he is forced to. Well we didn’t win, we played better after McFadden and Pienaar came (and particularly after Hibbert went off). Just maybe DM will change things for Blackburn and we see the type of line up that everyone wanted before the season started.
Whilst,as ever,Tony goes a bit over the top in his criticism of Moyes,in essence he is totally correct.The managers tactic of never changing a winning side is as outdated as his reliance on hoofball.It is the mindset of a lower division manager and shows that Moyes is a very slow learner now having completed 200 of his 400 games as a manager in the top bracket.
I have a dreadful feeling that this will be another of his ’off seasons’.
I have a dreadful feeling that this will be another of his ’off seasons’.
tony. You?re a cock.
Micheal,
I believe the real reason behind many people being fed up with tony marsh’s posts are his told lack of saying anything constructive..
All you get is shite this and crap that..it is just bile.
Yes we would all like our team to play like an Arsenal or a Man utd..but we dont have their strengh in depth , so we cant.
To say that the people who give constuctive criticism and still manage to get behind the team are "happy" with defeat is nonsense.
Everton were poor at Reading on Saturday, and great at Spurs on Tuesday..Do you honestly think that the manager asked his players to go out and constanly pass it back to the opposition?
Did he ask them to lose possesion in midfield at every opportunity?..of course not
From where I was sat Reading simply came out of the traps faster..they began to win a lot of ball that we tried to play through midfield and this in turn led to our back line playing the long ball in the hope that it didnt come straight back..
Too many players had a bad day, shown in the fact that even Mikel Arteta couldnt find a blue shirt all day long...was this the managers fault..were they his chosen tactics..NO.
Over a season we will have some great some good some bad and some awful..and each time a more reflective balanced look to a post on the team would lead to a less caustic response..
Just as Tony would like to see silky skills and classy play..so would most people like to read a more dignified..well written and less vitriolic account of what may or may not be wrong with the team selection or tactics..
A debate cant really work if the opening lines are basically just a bunch of moronic insults , no matter how heart felt.
If Tony does not realise this , then he obviously lacks a dgree of intelligence..if he does realise it and continues as is..then he is merely trying to extract the response he normally gets....And if you dont realise it....?
I believe the real reason behind many people being fed up with tony marsh’s posts are his told lack of saying anything constructive..
All you get is shite this and crap that..it is just bile.
Yes we would all like our team to play like an Arsenal or a Man utd..but we dont have their strengh in depth , so we cant.
To say that the people who give constuctive criticism and still manage to get behind the team are "happy" with defeat is nonsense.
Everton were poor at Reading on Saturday, and great at Spurs on Tuesday..Do you honestly think that the manager asked his players to go out and constanly pass it back to the opposition?
Did he ask them to lose possesion in midfield at every opportunity?..of course not
From where I was sat Reading simply came out of the traps faster..they began to win a lot of ball that we tried to play through midfield and this in turn led to our back line playing the long ball in the hope that it didnt come straight back..
Too many players had a bad day, shown in the fact that even Mikel Arteta couldnt find a blue shirt all day long...was this the managers fault..were they his chosen tactics..NO.
Over a season we will have some great some good some bad and some awful..and each time a more reflective balanced look to a post on the team would lead to a less caustic response..
Just as Tony would like to see silky skills and classy play..so would most people like to read a more dignified..well written and less vitriolic account of what may or may not be wrong with the team selection or tactics..
A debate cant really work if the opening lines are basically just a bunch of moronic insults , no matter how heart felt.
If Tony does not realise this , then he obviously lacks a dgree of intelligence..if he does realise it and continues as is..then he is merely trying to extract the response he normally gets....And if you dont realise it....?
Tony, it’s one game mate. we’ll have ups and downs all season. some times we won’t even get the rub of the green.
still one swallow doesn’t make a summer now does it?
If you followed ManUre. I suppose your be calling for old plonky nose’ head.
still one swallow doesn’t make a summer now does it?
If you followed ManUre. I suppose your be calling for old plonky nose’ head.
Micheal you complete prat!
Just because your one of the muppets that also speaks and thinks this crap, and because your complete misunderstanding of football has led you to prompt these miserable mooks and defend them, you still pompously cling to the higher moral ground.
You are incapable, I’ll say it again, incapable, hang on try this INCAPABLE, thats better!
INCAPABLE of understanding the bigger picture of football all its nuances, and making any valued interpretations, as is TM et al.
You have no grounding in football or reality!
You have always endlessly stressed how you ’dont give a shit’ about any other teams, ’you dont pay attention’ to any other teams and you dont wanna discuss any other teams.
But you lot just sit there in your ’nil satis..cocoon’and make dicks of yourselves because you are so clueless its sad.
All is not perfect, but the way you lot get worked up, and what you get worked up about, and how often you are proved wrong is mindblowing.
And as for your ’dont read it’ claptrap, ffs everyone knows that dont work!
May I suggest if you and tony are so unhappy with everton/moyes DONT WATCH!!!
Just because your one of the muppets that also speaks and thinks this crap, and because your complete misunderstanding of football has led you to prompt these miserable mooks and defend them, you still pompously cling to the higher moral ground.
You are incapable, I’ll say it again, incapable, hang on try this INCAPABLE, thats better!
INCAPABLE of understanding the bigger picture of football all its nuances, and making any valued interpretations, as is TM et al.
You have no grounding in football or reality!
You have always endlessly stressed how you ’dont give a shit’ about any other teams, ’you dont pay attention’ to any other teams and you dont wanna discuss any other teams.
But you lot just sit there in your ’nil satis..cocoon’and make dicks of yourselves because you are so clueless its sad.
All is not perfect, but the way you lot get worked up, and what you get worked up about, and how often you are proved wrong is mindblowing.
And as for your ’dont read it’ claptrap, ffs everyone knows that dont work!
May I suggest if you and tony are so unhappy with everton/moyes DONT WATCH!!!
If it were someone else making some of what he says a point then fair enough. Then there would be a case for poor play. But Tony this Anti Moyes thing you have must STOP!!
You make yourself look like a dick all the time. Moyes record is pretty damn good considering the tripe he has had to put up with. His record speaks for itself only finishing outside the top 10 twice as full Everton manager.
His peers saw it fitting enough to vote him LMA manager of year in 03 and 05.
Yeah we have a habit of playing some crap football. Then again if you can name a team who doesn’t play hopeless long balls from time to time
You make yourself look like a dick all the time. Moyes record is pretty damn good considering the tripe he has had to put up with. His record speaks for itself only finishing outside the top 10 twice as full Everton manager.
His peers saw it fitting enough to vote him LMA manager of year in 03 and 05.
Yeah we have a habit of playing some crap football. Then again if you can name a team who doesn’t play hopeless long balls from time to time
Nice response, John. I?ll try not to sink to the same level by questioning your infinite football knowledge but just point out what I said before: it?s about the football we play on the day.
It?s good to see that at least some respondents can pick up on that and accept it as being the point of discussion. What exactly does "the bigger picture of football and all its nuances" have to do with the decision-making of our players on the field?
No doubt you?ll correct me if I?m wrong, but I hold the (perhaps mistaken) belief that David Moyes is a lot more responsible for players? decision-making than any consideration of "the bigger picture of football and all its nuances".
It is a pity that all you can do is resort to insults rather than actually address the issues raised, which only justifies what I said: best you don?t read it, because you have no interest in discussing the valid points Tony raises.
It?s good to see that at least some respondents can pick up on that and accept it as being the point of discussion. What exactly does "the bigger picture of football and all its nuances" have to do with the decision-making of our players on the field?
No doubt you?ll correct me if I?m wrong, but I hold the (perhaps mistaken) belief that David Moyes is a lot more responsible for players? decision-making than any consideration of "the bigger picture of football and all its nuances".
It is a pity that all you can do is resort to insults rather than actually address the issues raised, which only justifies what I said: best you don?t read it, because you have no interest in discussing the valid points Tony raises.
good article and spot on, say what yer want but moyes just can’t seem to be able to change a game by his own actions, he’s like a rabbit in headlights when it all goes tits up.
Tony
You mention Barton as being a good signing - the bloke who keeps getting into trouble for belting his teamates ? Thank goodness we didn’t get him, it’s one thing to get in trouble with the FA for poor discipline - it’s a bit more serious when the police are involved don’t you think.
You mention Barton as being a good signing - the bloke who keeps getting into trouble for belting his teamates ? Thank goodness we didn’t get him, it’s one thing to get in trouble with the FA for poor discipline - it’s a bit more serious when the police are involved don’t you think.
Micheal when in the trenches give me street fighter over a choir boy anyday. I metioned Barton because he does have battling qualities which we as a unit sorely lack. We dont have one man in the whole squad who will take the game by the scruff of the neck and kick a few if need be. We are too small and too nice. That was my point.
Micheal K.
What exactly is there to discuss here?
This type of post has back and forth from either yourself or T.marsh et al for at least the best part of two years.
Whenever anyone attempts to discuss an opposing view they are either dimissed as limp-wristed tits by tony , or easily pleased but misguided fools by yourself, and then you go back to banging out the same old unyielding views.
What is the point of trying to discuss? Been there, done that.
So have many others on here.
There are plenty of valid discussions taking place elsewhere in the mailbag.
But this type of post/viewpoint allows nothing for discussion, can you really not see that?
How many of tonys posts are going to be followed by endless sniping comments before you realise nothing of any worth is ever put up for debate,let alone discussed.
I can just about put up with your self-professed ’discerning/cynical’ viewpoint but even that has to be grounded somewhere.
If tonys views are held in such respect that you are defending them and backing them up so wholeheartedly, then I can only assume that it fits in with your perception and understanding of what is going on at this moment in time, and that to me takes away credibilty from your ’discerning/cynical’ viewpoint and points in the direction of a ’cynical/ridiculous’ mind-set.
By all means ask the question why the performance against reading was so different to the one against tottenham?
There are many explanations that could be given.
The thing is every reason/explanation is always extrapolated till its ultimately moyes’ fault, without acknowledging at all, whether the explanation held any worth in its own right.
But rather that moyes bought the players, moyes’ trains the players, the players have absolutely no ’autonomy’ whatsoever, and everything that goes wrong means were shite and moyes is shite.
but like I said its kind of pointless trying to discuss anything.
What exactly is there to discuss here?
This type of post has back and forth from either yourself or T.marsh et al for at least the best part of two years.
Whenever anyone attempts to discuss an opposing view they are either dimissed as limp-wristed tits by tony , or easily pleased but misguided fools by yourself, and then you go back to banging out the same old unyielding views.
What is the point of trying to discuss? Been there, done that.
So have many others on here.
There are plenty of valid discussions taking place elsewhere in the mailbag.
But this type of post/viewpoint allows nothing for discussion, can you really not see that?
How many of tonys posts are going to be followed by endless sniping comments before you realise nothing of any worth is ever put up for debate,let alone discussed.
I can just about put up with your self-professed ’discerning/cynical’ viewpoint but even that has to be grounded somewhere.
If tonys views are held in such respect that you are defending them and backing them up so wholeheartedly, then I can only assume that it fits in with your perception and understanding of what is going on at this moment in time, and that to me takes away credibilty from your ’discerning/cynical’ viewpoint and points in the direction of a ’cynical/ridiculous’ mind-set.
By all means ask the question why the performance against reading was so different to the one against tottenham?
There are many explanations that could be given.
The thing is every reason/explanation is always extrapolated till its ultimately moyes’ fault, without acknowledging at all, whether the explanation held any worth in its own right.
But rather that moyes bought the players, moyes’ trains the players, the players have absolutely no ’autonomy’ whatsoever, and everything that goes wrong means were shite and moyes is shite.
but like I said its kind of pointless trying to discuss anything.
Terrymarsbar, "moronic insults", calling Tony a "Sad Twat" does not fall in to this category then? Pot, Kettle, with a lot of people on here and more often those not using their own names.
Face facts, Everton were beaten by a hard working team no more, we had no cohesion and were awful in posession. I think the manager has to take some responsibilty for our style of play, seeing as he is the one that sets out the team's tactics.
Face facts, Everton were beaten by a hard working team no more, we had no cohesion and were awful in posession. I think the manager has to take some responsibilty for our style of play, seeing as he is the one that sets out the team's tactics.
Got to the end of the firsts para and thought why bother reading this!
Michael,
I am regular reader and occasional contributor on this site, and I enjoy the varied, intelligent opinions offered, and love to spend my time poring over all things Everton.
But I think you misunderstand why people react so strongly to Tony’s comments. It is not that everything he says is wrong; I sympathise with his views regarding playing more School of Science stuff, and I think most fans would love to see us playing more on the deck.
But not AT ANY COST. We have become a very hard to beat side, and consequently do not regularly suffer embarrassing defeats often, though I would concede we sometimes embarrass ourselves by not consitently outplaying teams whose players are not as good as ours. However, these things go hand in hand to some extent, though many of us feel things are improving, if slowly.
Which brings me back to Tony. If I were to say the US invasion of Iraq was a success, you’d laugh at me, even though empirically speaking successes have been had. And you’d be right to laugh, because I would be selecting certain evidence wholly without regard to a wider context of disasters.
If Tony were able to accept that Moyes has done well in many regards up to a point, I don’t think so many people would react so strongly. You say you are pleased some people seem to take his point, imagine how many more would were he to couch his criticism in a balanced view of what has also improved.
Comtroversy can be good, it’s helpful to challenge received opinion, but there comes a point where a view can seem so extreme as to be off people’s radar, which defeats what I imagine is your and Tony’s objective.
I applaud the fact that you seek to constantly demand better from our beloved blues, we all should. But Nil Satis Nisi Optimum can’t mean we disregard progress simply because it is not perfection. Man’s reach should outstretch his grasp - we should strive for perfection, but if we are not to go mad we must also realise it is an ideal, not an obtainable reality.
If we can’t see that, then we will be left only with NIL.
I am regular reader and occasional contributor on this site, and I enjoy the varied, intelligent opinions offered, and love to spend my time poring over all things Everton.
But I think you misunderstand why people react so strongly to Tony’s comments. It is not that everything he says is wrong; I sympathise with his views regarding playing more School of Science stuff, and I think most fans would love to see us playing more on the deck.
But not AT ANY COST. We have become a very hard to beat side, and consequently do not regularly suffer embarrassing defeats often, though I would concede we sometimes embarrass ourselves by not consitently outplaying teams whose players are not as good as ours. However, these things go hand in hand to some extent, though many of us feel things are improving, if slowly.
Which brings me back to Tony. If I were to say the US invasion of Iraq was a success, you’d laugh at me, even though empirically speaking successes have been had. And you’d be right to laugh, because I would be selecting certain evidence wholly without regard to a wider context of disasters.
If Tony were able to accept that Moyes has done well in many regards up to a point, I don’t think so many people would react so strongly. You say you are pleased some people seem to take his point, imagine how many more would were he to couch his criticism in a balanced view of what has also improved.
Comtroversy can be good, it’s helpful to challenge received opinion, but there comes a point where a view can seem so extreme as to be off people’s radar, which defeats what I imagine is your and Tony’s objective.
I applaud the fact that you seek to constantly demand better from our beloved blues, we all should. But Nil Satis Nisi Optimum can’t mean we disregard progress simply because it is not perfection. Man’s reach should outstretch his grasp - we should strive for perfection, but if we are not to go mad we must also realise it is an ideal, not an obtainable reality.
If we can’t see that, then we will be left only with NIL.
Tony your spot on mate the way we concede possesion constantly,it has been driving me insane for ages,once Arteta is closed down were fucked,no options and no ideas,movement off the ball is diabolical,giving whoever is in possesion no chance,Neville and Carsley will just lump it and are both too defensive,they cant get forward and the gap between front and back is leaving AJ and Vic dangling.Be sure everyone we play now will double up on Arteta and then pick up the following lumped ball from Carsley,Neville or Hibbert,its fuckin shite to watch in fact its embarrassing.We need more quality in the middle and definately a winger who can carry the ball and go past people and the full backs need to be able to push right on and boost the midfield,Baines will be ideal at this but Tony Hibbert just isnt capable.If Moyes doesnt pull his finger out and sign a recognised goalscoring center forward before the deadline we can kiss any european ambitions goodbye.The Wigan game we were carried by magnificent Mikel and everything came through him at Spurs if he gets crocked god help us.
Tony,
Your apparent hatred of Moyes is somewhat bemusing to say the least.
You say ’’ can’t handle this crap much longer’’. FFS everyone would have accepted 6 points out of a possible 9. You spout your mouth off calling people traitors, selling us down the river about the stadium saga and then all you seem to do is condemn the side and the manager. If you dont like it, dont go. Real Evertonians (as you like to consider yourself) support the side. Yer maybe we do hoof the ball now and then, but i couldnt care less if we win football matches.
You say embarassing defeats. Correct me if I’m wrong, Reading finished 8th last season and had the best home record outside the top 4, if thats embarassing to you then so be it. And when was the last time we got mauled by someone, last time I can remember is Bolton at home 2 years ago.
Overall, complete tosh mate.
Your apparent hatred of Moyes is somewhat bemusing to say the least.
You say ’’ can’t handle this crap much longer’’. FFS everyone would have accepted 6 points out of a possible 9. You spout your mouth off calling people traitors, selling us down the river about the stadium saga and then all you seem to do is condemn the side and the manager. If you dont like it, dont go. Real Evertonians (as you like to consider yourself) support the side. Yer maybe we do hoof the ball now and then, but i couldnt care less if we win football matches.
You say embarassing defeats. Correct me if I’m wrong, Reading finished 8th last season and had the best home record outside the top 4, if thats embarassing to you then so be it. And when was the last time we got mauled by someone, last time I can remember is Bolton at home 2 years ago.
Overall, complete tosh mate.
"Mark theres no point in speculating on other managers"(TM)
Yes because you know that we cannot attract a "top" manager!
Yes because you know that we cannot attract a "top" manager!
Tony has got a point no question about it, whether he gets it across in the right way is somewhat up for debate. We were shit against Reading but it wont happen every week, the football was awful and anyone should have been able to see the long ball was not working.
We need to work on movement bigtime because if players in the midfield were showing for the defenders maybe they wouldnt have to lump it forward. Its not all ther fault though because our fullbacks sit too deep and put too much distance between themselves and midfield. Catch 22!
Moyes is to blame for this style of play but you can only work with the tools your given. Hibberts been shite since we kicked off the season and neville is better going forward than him. Baines will be left back against blackburn so that is an improvement also. Then add fernandes, cahill, Vaughn all to return and its not too bad.
Our bench has looked weak all season in terms of the ability to get a goal or change a game. All defensive, no creativity or forward options but i believe that in two weeks time it will all be sorted.
We need to work on movement bigtime because if players in the midfield were showing for the defenders maybe they wouldnt have to lump it forward. Its not all ther fault though because our fullbacks sit too deep and put too much distance between themselves and midfield. Catch 22!
Moyes is to blame for this style of play but you can only work with the tools your given. Hibberts been shite since we kicked off the season and neville is better going forward than him. Baines will be left back against blackburn so that is an improvement also. Then add fernandes, cahill, Vaughn all to return and its not too bad.
Our bench has looked weak all season in terms of the ability to get a goal or change a game. All defensive, no creativity or forward options but i believe that in two weeks time it will all be sorted.
Befor someone else points it out, i know this is moyes’ team now i just think that until very recently he has been severley restricted in the transfer market.
Andrew, thanks for the reasoned and sensible comment. Distilling it down so that I can focus my response, I think what you are saying (like many others have already) is:
(1) things are improving, if slowly.
(2) we can’t disregard progress simply because it is not perfection.
There are plenty of people on this website who remind us constantly of the progress being made and that progress is visible over the long term. How we play on the field for 90 minutes in a game is strictly short-term: it’s here and now. But, more importantly, it’s actually what we are here for. The game on the field. Not Everton in the Community... not the financial basis for a new stadium... FOOTBALL! Why do we need to harp on about long-term progress when we are witnessing short-term failings that cause us to lose games of football? For me, at the end of the day, it’s about watching 90 minutes of football on Saturday. The rest is history.
Of course perfection is unattainable. But good passing isn’t unattainable. Retaining possession isn’t unattainable. Setting your team out to specifically address and counter the threats offered by the opposition isn’t unattainable.
None of these things are "perfection". In fact, they are so basic and fundamental to football as she should be played, it boggles my mind that people don’t spend the entire weekend complaining about our football! Too much of our play is shockingly bad. Will we continue to make progress while playing like that? Apparently yes, "slow progress..." Progress that you want us to proclaim, while (presumably) ignoring the crimes against football that are committed on the pitch by players in Everton shirts.
We are not asking for perfection here, just for them to play better football ? football that we KNOW they are capable of. Is that really too much to ask?
(1) things are improving, if slowly.
(2) we can’t disregard progress simply because it is not perfection.
There are plenty of people on this website who remind us constantly of the progress being made and that progress is visible over the long term. How we play on the field for 90 minutes in a game is strictly short-term: it’s here and now. But, more importantly, it’s actually what we are here for. The game on the field. Not Everton in the Community... not the financial basis for a new stadium... FOOTBALL! Why do we need to harp on about long-term progress when we are witnessing short-term failings that cause us to lose games of football? For me, at the end of the day, it’s about watching 90 minutes of football on Saturday. The rest is history.
Of course perfection is unattainable. But good passing isn’t unattainable. Retaining possession isn’t unattainable. Setting your team out to specifically address and counter the threats offered by the opposition isn’t unattainable.
None of these things are "perfection". In fact, they are so basic and fundamental to football as she should be played, it boggles my mind that people don’t spend the entire weekend complaining about our football! Too much of our play is shockingly bad. Will we continue to make progress while playing like that? Apparently yes, "slow progress..." Progress that you want us to proclaim, while (presumably) ignoring the crimes against football that are committed on the pitch by players in Everton shirts.
We are not asking for perfection here, just for them to play better football ? football that we KNOW they are capable of. Is that really too much to ask?
Tony - it is frustrating but what can you do? These are grown men. The same grown men played well on Tuesday and then hoofed it on Saturday. That suggests that they know what to do. Therefore who says Moyes asked them to play badly on Saturday? Thats football mate and you, just like the rest of us, know that we don’t always get what we want at Everton. Moyes is a goodn and I can’t think of anybody else who would be better with our budget. I fear that you don’t disagree with this, as you always say wou won’t speculate because it won’t change anything. That doesn’t stop you complaining and writing for much longer than it would take to type the name of the manager you want. If speculating won’t change anything then neither will your complaints -and as that does not stop you, GIVE US THE NAME OF YOUR ANSWER TO OUR WOES PLEASE ...
Joe Jennings.2 years ago Bolton was our last drubbibg.How about Blackburn in the FA Cup 8 months ago.I remember we were playing awfully at the time.The home defeat to Spurs [remember that]was only a few weeks later and it still hasnt changed much.The odd good shift we put in is never followed up with another.In the end we revert back to what DM knows best.Longball game and any one can teach that crap.
Joe Jennings .just because Tony isnt prepared to put up with the shite football we’ve been getting dished up for years,probably since Joe Royle left,doesnt in anyway mean hes not a ’real Evertonian’,if your trying to tell me you’ve enjoyed watching us under Smith and now Moyes well i just despair.We used to be known as the school of science these days im amazed if we put 4 or 5 passes together, its dollop!Tony carry on with your criticisms,it shows your not swallowing the media hype now surrounding football,’premiership survival is success’.NIL SATIS NISI OPTIMUM
Tony,
Fair enough, Blackburn was an awful result. The defeat to Spurs was bad but I wouldnt class it as embarassing. Moyes learnt from his tactical errors that night and we stuffed Watford days later 0-3 I recall. Im not saying he’s perfect but who else is there? There’s no denying Moyes has been and is good for EFC
Peter Reid? No thanks
Fair enough, Blackburn was an awful result. The defeat to Spurs was bad but I wouldnt class it as embarassing. Moyes learnt from his tactical errors that night and we stuffed Watford days later 0-3 I recall. Im not saying he’s perfect but who else is there? There’s no denying Moyes has been and is good for EFC
Peter Reid? No thanks
Michael,
many fair points. I can lose my thread by being wordy, I’ll put my hands up to that, but I think what I really wanted to say was:
Criticise, but keep it balanced, or else it just becomes entranched slanging between those who seem to see no good and those who seem to see no bad - when I suspect all of us are closer to a middle ground than we’d care to admit.
I’d really like to hear what other toffees have to say about whether we play enough football, and if not, why we don’t, whether we can see that changing, etc.
Tony’s article, had it been more balanced, might have provoked such a debate - some posters ignore the extremes and address Tony’s legitimate points, but how many more just think they can’t be bothered to read through how all is awful to find the bits that are actually relevant and interesting.
An example; the title, "We Surrendered".
Actually, Tony makes a good point that perhaps we tried to out-battle battlers with small, technically good players, when we might have done better playing more football. His title however, suggests a lack of team spirit or effort, which I don’t think he means. I don’t think this is really a weakness in our team anymore, so is it not possible that some will read the title and think "What game was he watching?", even if had they read on, they may have agreed with some of his points.
Anyway, I enjoy the other side of the relentlessly positive Echo / Official Website fluff, it’d just be nice if were written in such a way as not to turn people off before they’ve considered it.
many fair points. I can lose my thread by being wordy, I’ll put my hands up to that, but I think what I really wanted to say was:
Criticise, but keep it balanced, or else it just becomes entranched slanging between those who seem to see no good and those who seem to see no bad - when I suspect all of us are closer to a middle ground than we’d care to admit.
I’d really like to hear what other toffees have to say about whether we play enough football, and if not, why we don’t, whether we can see that changing, etc.
Tony’s article, had it been more balanced, might have provoked such a debate - some posters ignore the extremes and address Tony’s legitimate points, but how many more just think they can’t be bothered to read through how all is awful to find the bits that are actually relevant and interesting.
An example; the title, "We Surrendered".
Actually, Tony makes a good point that perhaps we tried to out-battle battlers with small, technically good players, when we might have done better playing more football. His title however, suggests a lack of team spirit or effort, which I don’t think he means. I don’t think this is really a weakness in our team anymore, so is it not possible that some will read the title and think "What game was he watching?", even if had they read on, they may have agreed with some of his points.
Anyway, I enjoy the other side of the relentlessly positive Echo / Official Website fluff, it’d just be nice if were written in such a way as not to turn people off before they’ve considered it.
Tony I do agree with you to a certain extent.
Its no good having fancy skillful midfielders if our defenders just bypass them with the long ball. We need all 10 outfield players playing a passing game where appropriate. Defenders must always put safety first when in our own third of the field, but humping a hopeful ball upfield when under no pressure, when a simpler ’ball to feet’ is an option is just a waste.
Keep the ball, don’t give it away needlessly.
We need to replace Hibbert and Stubbs with defenders who are comfortable on the ball and can pass the ball.
Its no good having fancy skillful midfielders if our defenders just bypass them with the long ball. We need all 10 outfield players playing a passing game where appropriate. Defenders must always put safety first when in our own third of the field, but humping a hopeful ball upfield when under no pressure, when a simpler ’ball to feet’ is an option is just a waste.
Keep the ball, don’t give it away needlessly.
We need to replace Hibbert and Stubbs with defenders who are comfortable on the ball and can pass the ball.
Tony - I think the only time you’ll truly be satisfied is when you are manager. Even then you’d probably write in slagging yourself off. Now, that I would read.
The most frustrating thing about Everton is that every now and again they show us what they can do! The Spurs away last year when they were chasing shadows even when we had 10 men, the villa game away a couple of seasons back, now that was how to playb football and it does piss me off that its the same players who can do that, yet can only show it once a year! If we could play football like that every week we would be up the top end of the table every season!
Everyone slagging Tony off has got to agree that its fuckin heartbreaking watching us play like that when we all know, that we only have to step up half a gear and they couldnt live with us....thats the bit that pisses me off!
The bench at the moment is weak and its just got weaker with the news that AJ is injured, possibly for 4 weeks! Leaving us with McFadden as our only fit striker and hes playing wednesday for Scotland!
Singing a CF is now an unbelievable priority
Everyone slagging Tony off has got to agree that its fuckin heartbreaking watching us play like that when we all know, that we only have to step up half a gear and they couldnt live with us....thats the bit that pisses me off!
The bench at the moment is weak and its just got weaker with the news that AJ is injured, possibly for 4 weeks! Leaving us with McFadden as our only fit striker and hes playing wednesday for Scotland!
Singing a CF is now an unbelievable priority
Well there?s a surprise, Michael rushing to the defence of yet another negative article! I honestly believe the likes of Michael and Tony were at their happiest when we were fighting relegation, at least then you could be negative to your hearts content!
I find myself, sadly, having to agree with Tony Marsh.
Friday afternoon I said to a colleague that Reading had 7 players out and we should do them over easily.
The argument that this is the team that drew 1-1 with Man Utd and nearly got something out of Chelsea doesn’t really wash with me as the team that did that was virtually non-existent with injuries. We were in effect playing their second string with a couple of first team players and in some cases their third choice players.
When you think about it, with the players we had on show it just isn’t good enough is it?
But then hopefully we’ll get something out of the next game.
Friday afternoon I said to a colleague that Reading had 7 players out and we should do them over easily.
The argument that this is the team that drew 1-1 with Man Utd and nearly got something out of Chelsea doesn’t really wash with me as the team that did that was virtually non-existent with injuries. We were in effect playing their second string with a couple of first team players and in some cases their third choice players.
When you think about it, with the players we had on show it just isn’t good enough is it?
But then hopefully we’ll get something out of the next game.
I will give you a name of a manager who has a similar record to Moyes and has spent less, Mark Hughes.
A bloke that actually could play a bit himself unlike our present manager.
I am sure he would love to manage Everton if the chance ever came his way, especially given our fan base. So there you go, you have got a name but it does not change anything does it ! LOL.
A bloke that actually could play a bit himself unlike our present manager.
I am sure he would love to manage Everton if the chance ever came his way, especially given our fan base. So there you go, you have got a name but it does not change anything does it ! LOL.
'We will endeavour to remove as soon as possible comments reported to us through the "Report Abuse" link that include personal attacks, racial slurs or other inappropriate material'. So reads Toffeeweb's own guidelines. I would therefore like to report every one of Tony Marsh's articles. Poor Mr Moyes's ears must be burning!
Steve ? I don’t think we could afford the shinpad budget if Sparky was in charge!
Tony - I feel sorry for your children if you have any.
Reading are a well organised side, who we could have beatin if AJ was a bit sharper.
Ourteta was out of sorts most probably beause he got left out of the Spanish squad again after all the ’Arteta for Spain’ hype.
Anichebe also had an off day, is it coincidence that England were knocking at his door prior to the Reading defeat.
6 points from 9 and + goal difference is good enough for me at this early stage.
Tony - I feel sorry for your children if you have any.
Reading are a well organised side, who we could have beatin if AJ was a bit sharper.
Ourteta was out of sorts most probably beause he got left out of the Spanish squad again after all the ’Arteta for Spain’ hype.
Anichebe also had an off day, is it coincidence that England were knocking at his door prior to the Reading defeat.
6 points from 9 and + goal difference is good enough for me at this early stage.
Marsh, you are the most tedious man in Liverpool. You stay silent when Moyes makes the decisions that win us games and come crawling out of the woodwork everytime we slip up.
Aside from Arsenal’s unbeaten season, I can’t think of many sides in recent years that go a full year without the odd slip-up. Does that make all of their managers useless, clueless idiots?
TEAMS WIN, TEAMS DRAWN and TEAMS LOSE.
Using every draw/loss as an example of Moyes’ incompetence is puerile and idiotic.
The fact is, our match against Reading was not the same as the Spurs game. Every game is different. Are you seriously suggesting that playing well against Spurs should automatically guarantee us an easy win against Reading? Each game is different and as it happens, we came up against a brilliant defensive performance on Saturday.
I feel sorry for you because, like many, you jumped on the bandwagon during a bad spell for Everton. Here’s some news for you, all sides have them.
Now that Moyes has cultivated a genuinely impressive side, bought well, taken a doomed club to European football (twice) and won the Manager of the Year award (twice), you feel you have to stick to your guns.
You miserable bugger, try enjoying what is happening to our club.
Aside from Arsenal’s unbeaten season, I can’t think of many sides in recent years that go a full year without the odd slip-up. Does that make all of their managers useless, clueless idiots?
TEAMS WIN, TEAMS DRAWN and TEAMS LOSE.
Using every draw/loss as an example of Moyes’ incompetence is puerile and idiotic.
The fact is, our match against Reading was not the same as the Spurs game. Every game is different. Are you seriously suggesting that playing well against Spurs should automatically guarantee us an easy win against Reading? Each game is different and as it happens, we came up against a brilliant defensive performance on Saturday.
I feel sorry for you because, like many, you jumped on the bandwagon during a bad spell for Everton. Here’s some news for you, all sides have them.
Now that Moyes has cultivated a genuinely impressive side, bought well, taken a doomed club to European football (twice) and won the Manager of the Year award (twice), you feel you have to stick to your guns.
You miserable bugger, try enjoying what is happening to our club.
John Richardson if only you would engage the brain before using the mouth.Its not losing that is my concern that will always happen to every team its the manner in which we lost that concerns me.That and the shambolic way in which we played.Please try to understand there is a big difference.While we are it when did we qualify in to a European comptition under Moyes???We got knocked out of both in the pre- liminary stages last time in 2004[humiliated as well] and have yet to make the group stages of the Uefa Cup this time around.Typical Moyes minion trying to give him credit for one of his biggest failings.The disastrous 2004 European campaign.Pathetic
SEE?
......absolutely pointless!
......absolutely pointless!
John Richardson-you expect us to enjoy what is happening to our club,what exactly?admitedly we do seem to have progressed from a bottom 6 club and Arteta,Baines,Howard and Johnson are the type of quality players we want to see coming in,but the style and standard of football needs to change drastically if we are to make a serious challenge for any honours.Mr.Moyes does seem to have an eye for the type of quality we need but obviously has trouble,financially,competing against the richer clubs so maybe the criticism he gets is below the belt but we must get the best out of the players we have and just banging the ball up the park constantly is not good enough at this level,every player in a blue shirt should be comfortable on the ball and should be able to do more than the basics.I think the aquisition of a quality central midfielder to bridge the gap between defence and the forwards and generally link the play up would obviously take the pressure off our more ’inadequate’ men,i know its easy to say and i dont know who but thats not my job.Its not all doom and gloom though, with our injured back and 3 or 4 decent players coming in we could be building to something here,i just think that if lack of movement in the transfer market leads to the season going pear-shaped and we get dumped out of all competitions again too early then the support will soon turn hostile and it will be a season too far for Mr.Moyes and the elusive Mr.Kenwright.
Alex Ferguson is such a shite manager. Has he learnt nothing during all those years at Manure? The fact they lost against Shitty at the weekend was a disgrace. All those years in charge and he cant even get them to score a goal in 90 mins. Think what UTD could have achieved over the last 15 years had they not employed the ghost of taggart and got a decent manger in instead.....Tony stop being an arse
One question, and I’m not being pedantic but how can Alex Ferguson be the ghost of Taggart?
If you mean Taggart as in the TV programme, that was a fictional character and ran around the same time as Ferguson started at Man Utd.
If you mean Taggart as in the guy who played him then Mark McManus was born in 1935 and Ferguson was born in 1941. McManus died in 1994 and clearly Ferguson had been alive by 53 years by then so he couldn’t be the ghost of Taggart or the actor who played him. Now if Ferguson had been born at the end of 1994 or later then that would’ve been a different story.
Just to clear that up.
If you mean Taggart as in the TV programme, that was a fictional character and ran around the same time as Ferguson started at Man Utd.
If you mean Taggart as in the guy who played him then Mark McManus was born in 1935 and Ferguson was born in 1941. McManus died in 1994 and clearly Ferguson had been alive by 53 years by then so he couldn’t be the ghost of Taggart or the actor who played him. Now if Ferguson had been born at the end of 1994 or later then that would’ve been a different story.
Just to clear that up.
Are you Sure youre not being pedantic Steve?
You must have gone to the trouble of looking up the dates of birth of both FErgie an Mcmanus and the first airing of the show taggart or have a natural obsession with dates
I was kind of just getting carried away with my own sarcasm
Im an Inspector Frost man myself anyway!
You must have gone to the trouble of looking up the dates of birth of both FErgie an Mcmanus and the first airing of the show taggart or have a natural obsession with dates
I was kind of just getting carried away with my own sarcasm
Im an Inspector Frost man myself anyway!
Tony Marsh & his constant anti-Moyes have gone beyond tedious.
WAKE UP MAN! where the fuck where we before Moyes took over? Compare it to where we are now?
Sometimes he gets it wrong - but more often than not he gets it right - moaning twats like you - get right up my fucking nose.
Why don’t you go & support the Shyte - they love a good moan.
WAKE UP MAN! where the fuck where we before Moyes took over? Compare it to where we are now?
Sometimes he gets it wrong - but more often than not he gets it right - moaning twats like you - get right up my fucking nose.
Why don’t you go & support the Shyte - they love a good moan.
Tony’s firebrand style does grate a bit, but he does have a vaild point about the size of our squad - we are flyweights in midfield and have been for three or four seasons. Moyes tried to sign Vogel as a holding player, but is 5’9" and slight, hardly a powerhouse holding midfielder. The only dominant midfielders we appear to have had the remotest links with are Papa Bouba Diop from Fulham and Sissoko (whoops, best not mention!). Without an Essien / Mikel style powerhouse in midfield we will frequently resort to 4-5-1 to dominate. This doesn’t answer the hoofball question, but it is clear we need a different type of midfielder. If we are going to resort to long ball in tight situations, and face it even Man U do it when the chips are down, you do need a big double hard bastard up front too.
Tony, as has been said, is right and fair in pointing out a poor footballing display for much, though definitely not all, of the performance at the Madejski.
The playing was not good and against a well organised side like Reading, at home, it wasn’t enough. We knew we were lightweight in the attacking department when it comes to facing strong defensive sides and Stevie Coppell underscored it for us.
Tony’s problem is that he’s using his correct analysis to further an agenda which is so obviously well off the mark few others can stomach it.
That being that Moyes is an unfit manager because he couldnt get his players back to full steam, what, 4 days after shooting their hearts out at White Heart Lane.
No chance that people will succumb to such obvious agenda-led tosh either as Tony proves that he has knowledge of the game yet, suddenly, cant differentiate between the shocking defensive display that the Spuds put up at the weekend, that allowed us to use our movement and midfield fluency, and the game that Coppell set his players up for.
You may condemn the manager for inadequate tactical awareness, but, understand that Alex Ferguson must be equally guilty of that same deficiency and there will be a great many other visiting teams managers, that leave the Madejski empty handed, that will be equally short in the same department.
Begs the question as to who may satisfy fans who share Tonys viewpoint as manager of our great club. Moyes isnt enough despite the fact I haven’t started a season worried about the prospect of relegation in the past 3 seasons or so. Sir Alex Ferguson was so tactically inept that he couldnt defeat lowly Reading at home this season either. Perhaps Tony is hoping that we can attract Mourinho away from Chelsea...after all he got his team a scraped 2-1 win didnt he....despite playing football thats hardly arsenal-standard!.
The playing was not good and against a well organised side like Reading, at home, it wasn’t enough. We knew we were lightweight in the attacking department when it comes to facing strong defensive sides and Stevie Coppell underscored it for us.
Tony’s problem is that he’s using his correct analysis to further an agenda which is so obviously well off the mark few others can stomach it.
That being that Moyes is an unfit manager because he couldnt get his players back to full steam, what, 4 days after shooting their hearts out at White Heart Lane.
No chance that people will succumb to such obvious agenda-led tosh either as Tony proves that he has knowledge of the game yet, suddenly, cant differentiate between the shocking defensive display that the Spuds put up at the weekend, that allowed us to use our movement and midfield fluency, and the game that Coppell set his players up for.
You may condemn the manager for inadequate tactical awareness, but, understand that Alex Ferguson must be equally guilty of that same deficiency and there will be a great many other visiting teams managers, that leave the Madejski empty handed, that will be equally short in the same department.
Begs the question as to who may satisfy fans who share Tonys viewpoint as manager of our great club. Moyes isnt enough despite the fact I haven’t started a season worried about the prospect of relegation in the past 3 seasons or so. Sir Alex Ferguson was so tactically inept that he couldnt defeat lowly Reading at home this season either. Perhaps Tony is hoping that we can attract Mourinho away from Chelsea...after all he got his team a scraped 2-1 win didnt he....despite playing football thats hardly arsenal-standard!.
Johnny,
I’ve just got a good memory for dates. Taggart actually started in 83. Fergie started in 86.
I’ve just got a good memory for dates. Taggart actually started in 83. Fergie started in 86.
Has any other manager ever received Manager of the year twice in the first 5 years of them being there?
I can’t think of any. And even if there is, does that make them shitty managers or does that make them a bit special?
I always remember playing football in Liverpool, and I was confident that no fucker could get past me as a centre half. One day I played with my mates son John Murphy, who completely took the piss out of me. Lesson learnt.
There’s a world of difference between all staff and players in the top divisions, compared to what the fuck you think you know.
If you think you know better Tony why don’t you go and tell Fergie or Mourino to fuck off, cos you can do a better job. You blert.
I can’t think of any. And even if there is, does that make them shitty managers or does that make them a bit special?
I always remember playing football in Liverpool, and I was confident that no fucker could get past me as a centre half. One day I played with my mates son John Murphy, who completely took the piss out of me. Lesson learnt.
There’s a world of difference between all staff and players in the top divisions, compared to what the fuck you think you know.
If you think you know better Tony why don’t you go and tell Fergie or Mourino to fuck off, cos you can do a better job. You blert.
Tony, you are so full of shit, its making me depressed just reading it. You must lead a sad, lonely life, not sure I need to say anything else
Tony! Its people like you I wished stopped coming to games! You?re the type that sits there whinging and slagging off all of our own players, all the way through the game!
You lessen the atmosphere for everyone who has to sit around you! Most of us go there to get behind the players and manager, which you will never do, whoever we have playing for us. How fickle are you, go and support the redsh#t@ and post on their forums!
You lessen the atmosphere for everyone who has to sit around you! Most of us go there to get behind the players and manager, which you will never do, whoever we have playing for us. How fickle are you, go and support the redsh#t@ and post on their forums!
Tony! Its people like you I wished stopped coming to games! You?re the type that sits there whinging and slagging off all of our own players, all the way through the game!
You lessen the atmosphere for everyone who has to sit around you! Most of us go there to get behind the players and manager, which you will never do, whoever we have playing for us. How fickle are you, go and support the redsh#t@ and post on their forums!
You lessen the atmosphere for everyone who has to sit around you! Most of us go there to get behind the players and manager, which you will never do, whoever we have playing for us. How fickle are you, go and support the redsh#t@ and post on their forums!
Apologies for being a day late to point this out, but I’ve been away.
Tony, Everton’s "disastrous" European campaign was in 2005, not 2004. FFS, and to quote your good self, "if only you would engage the brain before using the mouth". Better still, don’t, because you’re turning into a parody of yourself, and it’s fucking hilarious! As a "shock jock", you’d make a good window cleaner! I’m bored now, please don’t bother me again.
Tony, Everton’s "disastrous" European campaign was in 2005, not 2004. FFS, and to quote your good self, "if only you would engage the brain before using the mouth". Better still, don’t, because you’re turning into a parody of yourself, and it’s fucking hilarious! As a "shock jock", you’d make a good window cleaner! I’m bored now, please don’t bother me again.
Steve Claringbold -
Is Taggard still on TV?
Is Taggard still on TV?
Yup, and it’s still called Taggart.
TONY MARSH IS A MODERN DAY HERO.
HE SPEAKS THE UNSPEAKABLE, SEE THE UNSEEABLE.
WORDS ARE VERY DANGEROUS INDEED.
HE SPEAKS THE UNSPEAKABLE, SEE THE UNSEEABLE.
WORDS ARE VERY DANGEROUS INDEED.
SHAUN - Is it written in block capitals because the ward will only let you use crayons?
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1 Posted 20/08/2007 at 20:05:51
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Its all a bit repetitive, and you’ve made a tool of yourself so often with pieces like this it seems moyes learns from his mistakes much more than you do tony.
But if moyes ever masters 38 games/38 wins, I hope you give him a little credit.
jog on..