COLUMNIST JIM HOURIGAN
Fundamentally flawed
By Jim Hourigan : 05/10/2007 : 
Comments (36) :
Comments (36) : Well now the dust has settled and we can reflect on the performance 3 things stand out for me.
- we were lucky !! They outplayed us and should have scored more and only for a lack of a goalscorer would have
- the teams got gut's, they stuck at it, kept going and got a great result at the end of the night. The performance as a whole was poor, individuals were also poor but they kept going, so credit to the team spirit
- the team selection was fundamentally flawed and caused the poor performance
Why? Well, this is why
- a) The defence — why was Stubbs at centre half against a mobile fluid team who do not hit the ball long? For his pace? For his reading of the game? Well whatever reason he was there for it failed miserably. Yobo was poor, the back 4 as a whole sat far too deep and they failed to cope with movement. Lescott was our best defender and he was playing out of position. The back 4 was set up to play against a Wimledonesque forward line. I'm sorry but did I miss a long ball game to big forwards at Goodison? Neville at right back is the right decision for me but not with Stubbs. Baines or even Valente should have been in there and Lescott in the middle. They attacked down the middle and Yobo and Stubbs were very poor. Equally the distribution from the back had one dimension — hit it fifty yards and hope. How many times did they pass the ball short and forward?
- b) The midfield — Where was Osman? what did he contribute? what has he contributed since Spurs? The lad is anonymous. He is too slow to close players down, is not strong enough on the ball, cannot create chances and most certainly cannot defend. Arteta was poor until the last 20 mins when he went into the centre and started receiving the ball and passing it forward. Piennar was equally ineffective until Arteta started getting involved. Jagielka has come in for a lot of stick but he had 3 other midfield players who cannot tackle, let runners go past them and showed no ability to work in pairs. They couldn't keep possession for long enough and consequently he was passed around as if he didn't exist. The lad was on a loser from the start, the midfield offered no support and the centre of the back 4 were too far away and off their game badly.
- c) the forwards — having played up front myself I despaired at the abysmal quality of the forward passes. How often did they actually receive a ball to their feet? How often did they have the chance to run onto a ball played into the channels? Did anyone see a single cross other than Piennar to Osman? How can people slag the forwards off when the are given dross to work with? Yes we can say they should work harder and put themselves about, but believe me chasing aimless hoofs is soul destroying and is the surest way to switch forwards off. Had they been missing chances or failing to get on the end of good crosses or passes then yes they want a good bollocking, but criticising them just because they don't win all the fifty yard hoofs is unfair.
So we come to the overall selection and tactics. Moyes clearly worked on the tried and trusted 4 -1 -3 - 2 system or was it the 5 - 5 system. Yes thats right utter rubbish! We had no system and the game plan was we'll try and defend with the back 4 plus Jags and hope the others will score the goals. Real inventive thinking that. We wont look to keep possession and pass the ball forward, we'll do without a balanced back 4 and balanced midfield and just go for it. Thank god they tired noticeably in the last 25 mins and the players have a good character to keep going.
Well, will he learn? it's the big question. He talks about wanting to be a great manager but great managers pick football teams to play football. As the immortal Brian Clough said if God wanted us to play football in the air he would have put grass on the clouds. Until he learns to find and pick players who have the ability to keep possession instead of just a bucket load of guts then he will be nothing more than what he was as a player — a journeyman centre half with no ability.
Reader Comments
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Jim, We are 5th in the league, got through in the carling cup the other night, and made it on Thursday against a decent team. I accept we are playing to current limitations mainly due to injuries to key players - most of the season we’ve had a centre back and right back in centre midfield. However, the time to criticise is when we have a full squad to choose from. In the meantime keep the faith. How many spawny wins did the red s**te get when they won the League cup , EUFA cup and European cup ?!! To get a win there was a superb effort in the circumstances and now that we have had 3 wins on the bounce ( in case you’d forgotten ) this will give us immense confidence to go on. Just remember mate we’ve got Cahill, Johnson, Graveson, Vaughan , to name a few, to come back yet !!!
Jim, Like you I preferred to let the dust settle before commenting on the game but you appear to have stolen my fire. I have to confer with just about everything you’ve said. I too believe Jagielka has come in for a great deal of unwarranted criticism. The lad was played out of position and was given an impossible task given that he was expected to play as the anchor man with the support of the totally ineffective Osman who covers acres but actually contributes nothing to the game and has rarely done so for almost all the season to date.
I lost count of the number of times Stubbs and Yobo appeared to double up on covering the same attacker leaving a runner a straight run on goal. Yobo returning from injury was out of sorts. Personally I thought this was an opportunity to pair Jagielka with Lescott at the back given we will lose Yobo to the ANC. The sight of Moyes screaming at Yobo to push up was comical with the 36yr old Subbs alongside him he was surely having a laugh.
As with recent games we simply found it impossible to play joined up football. The glaring inadequacies in the middle of the park were there for all to see - strikers starved of support and a defence on the back foot as a result and thrown into confusion. The commentators rightly questioned why Carsley was not on the park from the off as he is effectively the only true holding player we have in the squad and we really needed him to do a job on the night. However, Moyes confounds all logic as he continues to engage in his seemingly endless game of musical chairs to the huge frustration of an increasingly desperate fan base, finally Jim keep up the good work, possibly the most telling contribution of post match analysis I’ve read to date.
I lost count of the number of times Stubbs and Yobo appeared to double up on covering the same attacker leaving a runner a straight run on goal. Yobo returning from injury was out of sorts. Personally I thought this was an opportunity to pair Jagielka with Lescott at the back given we will lose Yobo to the ANC. The sight of Moyes screaming at Yobo to push up was comical with the 36yr old Subbs alongside him he was surely having a laugh.
As with recent games we simply found it impossible to play joined up football. The glaring inadequacies in the middle of the park were there for all to see - strikers starved of support and a defence on the back foot as a result and thrown into confusion. The commentators rightly questioned why Carsley was not on the park from the off as he is effectively the only true holding player we have in the squad and we really needed him to do a job on the night. However, Moyes confounds all logic as he continues to engage in his seemingly endless game of musical chairs to the huge frustration of an increasingly desperate fan base, finally Jim keep up the good work, possibly the most telling contribution of post match analysis I’ve read to date.
I think you should be manager because you sound just great !
It’s patently clear that David Moyes deliberately buys duff players,chooses the wrong tactics and sends out the team hell bent on losing each game.
The fact that they scored three goals away in 45 torrid minutes was a fluke.
Ditto every win under Moyes and his teams 5th place.
You would be a much better manager because you obviously have an awareness that DM , AI and the rest ogf the management haven’t got.
I’m sure we would be like Brazil 1070 with you in charge....go for it !
It’s patently clear that David Moyes deliberately buys duff players,chooses the wrong tactics and sends out the team hell bent on losing each game.
The fact that they scored three goals away in 45 torrid minutes was a fluke.
Ditto every win under Moyes and his teams 5th place.
You would be a much better manager because you obviously have an awareness that DM , AI and the rest ogf the management haven’t got.
I’m sure we would be like Brazil 1070 with you in charge....go for it !
Not sure that football had even been invented in 1070 Billy! lol
Very funny post though.
Moyes has obviously been employed by the RS as a sleeper to keep us down.
Performance left a lot to be desired but if we’d been offered 2-3 at the start of the day we’d have bitten their arm off! Things to work on, but a least we’ve got a batch of European games to do it in!
Fuck it! Let’s sack Moyes, force the board out and release all these rubbish players we have. Cos that usually solves everything doesn’t it?
Thanks for the article Jim, everyone has a right to air their opinion on here. However, just remember how easy it is to point out the flaws and how difficult it is to put them right! That’s why you’re not a Premier League manager and Moyes is.
COYB
Very funny post though.
Moyes has obviously been employed by the RS as a sleeper to keep us down.
Performance left a lot to be desired but if we’d been offered 2-3 at the start of the day we’d have bitten their arm off! Things to work on, but a least we’ve got a batch of European games to do it in!
Fuck it! Let’s sack Moyes, force the board out and release all these rubbish players we have. Cos that usually solves everything doesn’t it?
Thanks for the article Jim, everyone has a right to air their opinion on here. However, just remember how easy it is to point out the flaws and how difficult it is to put them right! That’s why you’re not a Premier League manager and Moyes is.
COYB
I’m surprised by the aggressive response to Jim here. I’ve supported Moyes in the past, but I think Jim has got it spot on. It is not negative to tell the truth.
EVERTON WERE AN UTTER SHAMBLES! Jim is exactly right - only the players’ professionalism and spirit saw us through.
Moyes got it wrong at the start, and then, just as badly, he did NOTHING when things were obviously going south. I assume Carsley was fit, or why was he on the bench? If so, the obvious substitution after no more than twenty minutes was Cars for Osman. The midfield was being overrun through the middle, exactly where Cars is strong. Obvious to Rats on the commentary, obvious to all of us.
I could go on... we were playing obviously too deep, giving away possession far too easily by hoofing it etc. etc.. This is not being wise after the event, this was obvious after five minutes.
Metalist were absolutely robbed, and should have beat us like Rapid Bucharest by a clear margin. We are extremely lucky that this site is not discussing a 5-1 loss. Let’s tell the truth or we will never learn anything.
EVERTON WERE AN UTTER SHAMBLES! Jim is exactly right - only the players’ professionalism and spirit saw us through.
Moyes got it wrong at the start, and then, just as badly, he did NOTHING when things were obviously going south. I assume Carsley was fit, or why was he on the bench? If so, the obvious substitution after no more than twenty minutes was Cars for Osman. The midfield was being overrun through the middle, exactly where Cars is strong. Obvious to Rats on the commentary, obvious to all of us.
I could go on... we were playing obviously too deep, giving away possession far too easily by hoofing it etc. etc.. This is not being wise after the event, this was obvious after five minutes.
Metalist were absolutely robbed, and should have beat us like Rapid Bucharest by a clear margin. We are extremely lucky that this site is not discussing a 5-1 loss. Let’s tell the truth or we will never learn anything.
Some interesting responses - not. Don’t have a personal go that’s easy - question the content, offer your own analysis, show me where I’m wrong and I’ve got absolutely no problems. I’m happy to enter into any debate about tactics and personnel and I DON"T pretend I have a greater knowledge than anyone. But sadly once again the moment people question Moyes’ ability we turn to personal abuse and the usual myopic one liners of ’get behind the blues’. I’ve followed Everton for 40+ years, I’ve seen some great stuff and some absolute drivel. I’ll never be anything other than a blue, but I’m no sycophant and what I see at present leaves me cold - and I think we should always question and want more. Moyes will leave at some point in the future- it’s a fact of nature, the question is do we settle for what’s on offer because it’s better than all the other Premiership years? or do we constantly strive for more? and perhaps the second question is can Moyes take us to the next level? answer that one please with your reasons not just yes!!.
We got to the stage that we’re at now by Moyes building a hard working industrious team. Everyone knows that to get to the next level means success in Europe as well as breaking the "big 4". To do this we need the right balance of finesse and brute strength.
This doesn’t happen overnight and won’t happen without major investment. The only teams doing any better than us have spent serious money in the transfer market.
I understand the concerns about Moyes and his defensive mind set. It took him 5 years to get us from a relegation dogfight team, to a regular European challenger and I am prepared to give him another few years (barring any major dip in form/results) to see if he can take us to the next level. Unfortunately, the game is about money, money, money, and Moyes will need to invest more.
It’s not easy to try and change a team from a winning ugly side to a winning impressively side, without fucking it up completely and ending up back at square one. As far as I can see, nobody has questioned Jim’s opinion of our performance the other night, who can we were awful at times. However, putting it right is not as easy as some make out.
Putting Carsley on for Osman the other night may have made us stronger in Midfield, but in my opinion, the main reason we struggled was simply possession. Cars is not going to help on that front! Winning the ball is one thing, keeping it is another.
There is no quick fix to the problems that we have, but while we keep winning I will keep the faith that the performances will improve. Of course we don’t settle for poor football, but we do keep some optimism and hope alive. Some posts point out so many massive problems that you’d think we needed to scrap everything and start again from scratch!
One more thing, why is it that it always comes down to tactics? I’m sorry but footballers know how to play football and should be doing better in possession than they currently are. There is much blame dumped on the England manager for poor tactics but the regular failure of massive players like Gerrard and Lampard is often down to the pleyers not the tactics.
Pass and move? That isn’t a tactic, it’s basic football!!
This doesn’t happen overnight and won’t happen without major investment. The only teams doing any better than us have spent serious money in the transfer market.
I understand the concerns about Moyes and his defensive mind set. It took him 5 years to get us from a relegation dogfight team, to a regular European challenger and I am prepared to give him another few years (barring any major dip in form/results) to see if he can take us to the next level. Unfortunately, the game is about money, money, money, and Moyes will need to invest more.
It’s not easy to try and change a team from a winning ugly side to a winning impressively side, without fucking it up completely and ending up back at square one. As far as I can see, nobody has questioned Jim’s opinion of our performance the other night, who can we were awful at times. However, putting it right is not as easy as some make out.
Putting Carsley on for Osman the other night may have made us stronger in Midfield, but in my opinion, the main reason we struggled was simply possession. Cars is not going to help on that front! Winning the ball is one thing, keeping it is another.
There is no quick fix to the problems that we have, but while we keep winning I will keep the faith that the performances will improve. Of course we don’t settle for poor football, but we do keep some optimism and hope alive. Some posts point out so many massive problems that you’d think we needed to scrap everything and start again from scratch!
One more thing, why is it that it always comes down to tactics? I’m sorry but footballers know how to play football and should be doing better in possession than they currently are. There is much blame dumped on the England manager for poor tactics but the regular failure of massive players like Gerrard and Lampard is often down to the pleyers not the tactics.
Pass and move? That isn’t a tactic, it’s basic football!!
Neil McKinney, In my opinion it is still open to debate as to whether Moyes is a Premier League manager.
His tactics, his team selection, sometimes beggar belief. 4-3-3 in the first leg ?
When I see any sort of progress, football wise, I will be sure to post.
His tactics, his team selection, sometimes beggar belief. 4-3-3 in the first leg ?
When I see any sort of progress, football wise, I will be sure to post.
Moyes is a mid-table Premiership manager at best.
I despair when people defend him by saying that the "top four" win matches when they play badly.
There is a GULF between our playing badly and their playing badly.
And before anyone trots out the old chestnut of "Who would you bring in then?" - Steve Coppell.
I despair when people defend him by saying that the "top four" win matches when they play badly.
There is a GULF between our playing badly and their playing badly.
And before anyone trots out the old chestnut of "Who would you bring in then?" - Steve Coppell.
Let’s tell the truth again here guys. It’s not just that we didn’t play flowing attacking football on Thursday. We didn’t DEFEND well! That is shocking for Moyes.
In both these ties Moyes has simply gone to pieces. He’s abandoned his traditional strengths of defensive solidity, and not put anything else in its place. We will be slaughtered in the group stages unless he works this out.
In both these ties Moyes has simply gone to pieces. He’s abandoned his traditional strengths of defensive solidity, and not put anything else in its place. We will be slaughtered in the group stages unless he works this out.
Spot on Neil.The responses to Jim’s post are way over the top.In my opinion,Jim got it spot on in his view of the game.Did you fans having a go at him see a different game?If so, why don’t you put your point across in a debate,instead of your rantings?Why is it that Moyes seems to be untouchable in the eyes of some fans?It seems to be that if anybody says a bad word about him,they can’t be proper Evertonians because they don’t get behind him 100%,or even worse,they are labelled a redshite.At the end of the day I am 100% behind Everton football club,that doesn’t mean I have to gush all over Moyes.
People like Jim Hooligan forget that in the Golden Age of the 1960’s school of science and all that, Everton were the Chelsea of the day.
THE bank of England club bankrolled by John Moores and his Littlewoods millions.
Even then there were idiots kicking ...literally... Catterick, the manager who had given them the clubs’ first title in 30 odd years, an FA cup and regular top six finishes.
Everton as a club has always attracted a neanderthal element. The glass half empty faction who have spent the last fifty years running the club down because they’re not winning Celtic amounts of silverware and playing like Brazil every week.
We’re just a middling club now regularly punching above our weight and that’s thanks to DM not the painful fantasists who clog up the pages on here.
I think the realists will have enjoyed the counter-attacking team the other night,who can be under the cosh yet still break away and snatch three well taken goals in 45 minutes for the second time in 7 days.
I don’t expect to win the European Cup every year. I’m just grateful we’re a top 6 team and hopeful of a cup or two eventually.
Come on you realists !!!
THE bank of England club bankrolled by John Moores and his Littlewoods millions.
Even then there were idiots kicking ...literally... Catterick, the manager who had given them the clubs’ first title in 30 odd years, an FA cup and regular top six finishes.
Everton as a club has always attracted a neanderthal element. The glass half empty faction who have spent the last fifty years running the club down because they’re not winning Celtic amounts of silverware and playing like Brazil every week.
We’re just a middling club now regularly punching above our weight and that’s thanks to DM not the painful fantasists who clog up the pages on here.
I think the realists will have enjoyed the counter-attacking team the other night,who can be under the cosh yet still break away and snatch three well taken goals in 45 minutes for the second time in 7 days.
I don’t expect to win the European Cup every year. I’m just grateful we’re a top 6 team and hopeful of a cup or two eventually.
Come on you realists !!!
Billy, with all due respect! I tend to consider myself of the ’realist tendency’ (pro Kirkby, accept we don’t play like Arsenal, realise we are not the financially strongest etc.).
But is ’realism’ accepting that a second or third rate team (in European terms) from Ukraine should tear us apart and, with better finishing, would have thrashed and humiliated us? Is realism watching Jagielka destroyed as a defensive midfielder while Carsley sits on the bench? Is realism watching a 50+ cap English international lob the ball up the field yet again so that the opposition comes straight back at us? Is realism watching Yakubu jog around like he’s playing on the beach?
We were rubbish (four players excepted), the tactics were embarrassing, and if we play that way again in the group stages we will be thrashed. Get real, stop dreaming!
But is ’realism’ accepting that a second or third rate team (in European terms) from Ukraine should tear us apart and, with better finishing, would have thrashed and humiliated us? Is realism watching Jagielka destroyed as a defensive midfielder while Carsley sits on the bench? Is realism watching a 50+ cap English international lob the ball up the field yet again so that the opposition comes straight back at us? Is realism watching Yakubu jog around like he’s playing on the beach?
We were rubbish (four players excepted), the tactics were embarrassing, and if we play that way again in the group stages we will be thrashed. Get real, stop dreaming!
Metalist a ’second or third rate team’.
That’s rubbish. To my eyes they were a very good team and with a billionaire oil backer they could become a household name in European football in a few years.
I didn’t think Villerreal were any better myself and they reached the CL semis in the year they beat us.
That’s rubbish. To my eyes they were a very good team and with a billionaire oil backer they could become a household name in European football in a few years.
I didn’t think Villerreal were any better myself and they reached the CL semis in the year they beat us.
Billy piper,maybe you should stick to singing or something as your football knowledge seems to be nil.If you think that that was counter attacking football then you must live on mars,moyes woudnt know counter attacking If it came and landed in front of him.He is totally out of his depth in europe,where even the smallest teams play with movement and a ability to KEEP the ball.He has had 5 years now,to,if he wanted to change the habbits of the team to pass it simple,movement when you dont have the ball,to just generally get a sharpness into some of the play.It comes from the training ground and if moyes had wanted to instill a decent level of play into the team he would have done it by now.There is so much wrong with the teams play you see school boys with better habbits than everton.Dont give me either about players,there are some decent footballers at the club now,who just aint being used to the best of their ability.We wont compete with arsenal at possetion,but i after 5 yaers expect the team to play with more invention,fluency,and just simpley see some sort of shape where we do look to play a team game that involves not giving the ball to the other team.Instead we have a static team that looks to play long asap,a team that relies on set-pieces,and a team that gets buy by the odd piece of individual class.We will never win anything under moyes,as the team wil lalways play like this under his guidence.Surely its not wrong after 5 years to want to see an improvement in the teams style as its not like we are winning things every season.Have some forward vision please.
MOAN MOAN MOAN
if your so knowledgable .
why arent you doin the job you knob !!!
we all like to make out that we know more than the next person but you cant escape the fact most of us know jack shit!!!
Im all up for a good read but it would be nice to see a bit more praise on these pages rather than whinging twats like you
Do us all a favour and dont come back until you can write something POSITIVE
It doesnt matter what any of us think all that matters is getting behind the boys
if your so knowledgable .
why arent you doin the job you knob !!!
we all like to make out that we know more than the next person but you cant escape the fact most of us know jack shit!!!
Im all up for a good read but it would be nice to see a bit more praise on these pages rather than whinging twats like you
Do us all a favour and dont come back until you can write something POSITIVE
It doesnt matter what any of us think all that matters is getting behind the boys
I’m sorry supporting Everton is such a wearisome burden for you..
Personally I got a big buzz from seeing my team win against the odds against an excellent team and score three goals to boot !
If supporting the Moyes era Everton is such a pain why don’t you give it a rest until some tactical genius like ermmm.....Peter Reid ?...comes along.
Personally I got a big buzz from seeing my team win against the odds against an excellent team and score three goals to boot !
If supporting the Moyes era Everton is such a pain why don’t you give it a rest until some tactical genius like ermmm.....Peter Reid ?...comes along.
what the fuck is everyone moning about? this is the most success we’ve had in nearly 15 years. We’ve by no means got our best side out at the minute yet we’re still winning games and through to the group stages of the UEFA cup. Lets face it we’re not Chelsea or manu , we’re Everton. just enjoy the moment and lets keep building so that maybe in the next 3 years we’ll have a squad good enough to play in the champions league. Rome wasn’t buit in a day you know!!
Gary Clarke,
You talking about yourself when you say about knowing jack shite coz thats what it seems like.You write something positive then the flor is yours and il tell you if i agree.I aint a prem manager but a lot of supporters know their football and have some vision unlike yourself by the looks,and i for one want to see a improvement that hasnt happened in 5 years.
And Billy Piper,you enjoy watching everton win agaist the odds....Win WHAT exactly..We may never get relageted under moyes but wont win anything either..
You talking about yourself when you say about knowing jack shite coz thats what it seems like.You write something positive then the flor is yours and il tell you if i agree.I aint a prem manager but a lot of supporters know their football and have some vision unlike yourself by the looks,and i for one want to see a improvement that hasnt happened in 5 years.
And Billy Piper,you enjoy watching everton win agaist the odds....Win WHAT exactly..We may never get relageted under moyes but wont win anything either..
Give Yakubu the service and he will score you the goals.
Give Jagielka a go in the correct position. Teach Phil Neville and Alan Stubbs ( although at their ages it may be a bit late! ) to stop hoofing it upfield G
ive Yobo a dressing down for not sticking tighter to their forwards.
Arteta was either carrying an injury or has some sort of grievance such was his general disinterest.
Moyes is still getting to grips with tactics in Europe
They are the things we have learnt from Thursday night.
On the other hand we have also seen that:
Anichebe is turning into a very good player
McFadden is playing with more consistency
Pienaar is getting better with each game
Lescott is getting better and better
Howard is an excellent keeper
We still have the fighting spirit to pull a game out of the fire
We are in the next round
Positives and negatives like all things in life. Address the negatives and build on the positives. Most important thing is we are through!!!
Cheer up, Jim. David Moyes will have learnt from the other night as has every Evertonian. It was always gonna be a very long road back to greatness with pitfalls along the way and we got past this one. Now we have to carry on improving, slow and irritating that it is at times, we are still progressing!
Give Jagielka a go in the correct position. Teach Phil Neville and Alan Stubbs ( although at their ages it may be a bit late! ) to stop hoofing it upfield G
ive Yobo a dressing down for not sticking tighter to their forwards.
Arteta was either carrying an injury or has some sort of grievance such was his general disinterest.
Moyes is still getting to grips with tactics in Europe
They are the things we have learnt from Thursday night.
On the other hand we have also seen that:
Anichebe is turning into a very good player
McFadden is playing with more consistency
Pienaar is getting better with each game
Lescott is getting better and better
Howard is an excellent keeper
We still have the fighting spirit to pull a game out of the fire
We are in the next round
Positives and negatives like all things in life. Address the negatives and build on the positives. Most important thing is we are through!!!
Cheer up, Jim. David Moyes will have learnt from the other night as has every Evertonian. It was always gonna be a very long road back to greatness with pitfalls along the way and we got past this one. Now we have to carry on improving, slow and irritating that it is at times, we are still progressing!
Given that we would all have slated the team and Moyes if we’d lost to Metalist, let’s give them some credit for that second half, rejoice that we’ve had some luck for once- and aboit time too- and those over 30 remember how moments like the kevin Brock back pass, the win at stoke in the Cup and UCD hitting the bar in 1994 can reallyturn a season and our fortunes.
Why not? We were certainly no better in january 1984 but confidence and spirit grew steadily and latent skills came to the fore. bring it on.
Why not? We were certainly no better in january 1984 but confidence and spirit grew steadily and latent skills came to the fore. bring it on.
Or even UCD hitting the bar in 1984, the ECWC which we of course won. Add to that though a scrambled cup victory over gillingham in 84 and a similar one at Bristol city in 95.
Jonothan
Like i said we all profess to know about tactics, but most of us dont pretend to be management material on internet forums.
If you want instant success go and support man u,
OR if your as good as you make out get a job with a premier league side
JOKER
Like i said we all profess to know about tactics, but most of us dont pretend to be management material on internet forums.
If you want instant success go and support man u,
OR if your as good as you make out get a job with a premier league side
JOKER
Gary,
we should content ourselves that should DM walk in front of a bus, we have so many great managers in waiting on Toffeeweb who will take the club to the next level and get us playing like Real Madrid circa 1963.
we should content ourselves that should DM walk in front of a bus, we have so many great managers in waiting on Toffeeweb who will take the club to the next level and get us playing like Real Madrid circa 1963.
Gary,
Your doing it again fella..Talking rubish!!!
Is 5 years instant success???maybe on mars there is a time diffrence and thats whats getting you mixed up..And there was me thinking that you were going to say somthing positive.Have some faith in your knowledge of the game,or dont you have any.JOKER.the thing is you dont have to be this premier manager to have a opinion and a view on football..Football is about opinions fella..im still waiting for yours or you going to continue and write more crap..
Your doing it again fella..Talking rubish!!!
Is 5 years instant success???maybe on mars there is a time diffrence and thats whats getting you mixed up..And there was me thinking that you were going to say somthing positive.Have some faith in your knowledge of the game,or dont you have any.JOKER.the thing is you dont have to be this premier manager to have a opinion and a view on football..Football is about opinions fella..im still waiting for yours or you going to continue and write more crap..
Gary,
Nice to see your little mascot has piped up again,billy piper herself..Football is a worldwide game,yes,worldwide and if all you can come up with between you for a moyes replacement is people off this site or peter reid then i can honestly say both need to try a bit harder.Two brains remember between you..
Hi everyone,
I’m quite a new Everton sporting club supporter and as such really value the opportunity to get up to speed on the club with expert analysis from the die hard fans on this site.
Today for instance I’ve learned that this David Moyes chap isn’t necessarily a premier league manager or at best he’s ’mid-table’, he’s tactically naive, doesn’t know how to get the best out of players or when to make changes. It all seems pretty well reasoned and I definitely agree we probably need to get rid of him if we’re going to move forward and win some championship trophies
A friend of mine who knows a lot more about soccer reckons there’s a couple of really good options out there straight away. He says there’s a chap called Graeme Sounness apparently who’s looking for a job and he won loads of trophies in Liverpool, so he’d fit straight in.
If he doesn’t fancy it though there’s loads more options available apparently, there’s even a website called the League Managers’ Association that lists available coaches. I only looked for a couple of minutes, but my friend tells me that there’s loads of quality on there already, with names like George Graham, Dave Bassett, Howard Wilkinson, Lawrie McMenemy and Bruce Rioch guaranteed to get us results and play beautiful football!.
There’s even some ex-Evertonian footballers on there with proven track records, like Tony Cottee, Mike Newell and Adrian Heath, they’d get the crowds going surely!
Heck, if we’re really desperate there’s this Portugese guy called Morino who’s apparently happy to come our way since he’s been sacked by the London Blues - he’s looking for a new challenge is cheap and works wonders on a small budget.
Then again there might be an even better option, as I’m reliably informed that there might be a young manager who’s proven he’s able to work on a small budget, who’s able to bring through talent from lower leagues and build a real team spirit about a club. He’s also been fiercely loyal to his team despite his best player being sold money not always being available when needed and despite this he’s managed to finish in the top 7 of the premiership 3 times out of 5 seasons, taken his previously struggling club into Europe via UEFA Cup and even Champions League and has been cited by his fellow professionals as the LMA manager of the year on two different occasions. He’s passionate, good with the sound bites (he actually gave his current club their motto!) and as he’s still in his early 40s too he’s probably going to keep on learning and improving.
The only thing is that this manager will apparently only come onto the market if we sack Moyes, so I say let’s go for it!
I’m quite a new Everton sporting club supporter and as such really value the opportunity to get up to speed on the club with expert analysis from the die hard fans on this site.
Today for instance I’ve learned that this David Moyes chap isn’t necessarily a premier league manager or at best he’s ’mid-table’, he’s tactically naive, doesn’t know how to get the best out of players or when to make changes. It all seems pretty well reasoned and I definitely agree we probably need to get rid of him if we’re going to move forward and win some championship trophies
A friend of mine who knows a lot more about soccer reckons there’s a couple of really good options out there straight away. He says there’s a chap called Graeme Sounness apparently who’s looking for a job and he won loads of trophies in Liverpool, so he’d fit straight in.
If he doesn’t fancy it though there’s loads more options available apparently, there’s even a website called the League Managers’ Association that lists available coaches. I only looked for a couple of minutes, but my friend tells me that there’s loads of quality on there already, with names like George Graham, Dave Bassett, Howard Wilkinson, Lawrie McMenemy and Bruce Rioch guaranteed to get us results and play beautiful football!.
There’s even some ex-Evertonian footballers on there with proven track records, like Tony Cottee, Mike Newell and Adrian Heath, they’d get the crowds going surely!
Heck, if we’re really desperate there’s this Portugese guy called Morino who’s apparently happy to come our way since he’s been sacked by the London Blues - he’s looking for a new challenge is cheap and works wonders on a small budget.
Then again there might be an even better option, as I’m reliably informed that there might be a young manager who’s proven he’s able to work on a small budget, who’s able to bring through talent from lower leagues and build a real team spirit about a club. He’s also been fiercely loyal to his team despite his best player being sold money not always being available when needed and despite this he’s managed to finish in the top 7 of the premiership 3 times out of 5 seasons, taken his previously struggling club into Europe via UEFA Cup and even Champions League and has been cited by his fellow professionals as the LMA manager of the year on two different occasions. He’s passionate, good with the sound bites (he actually gave his current club their motto!) and as he’s still in his early 40s too he’s probably going to keep on learning and improving.
The only thing is that this manager will apparently only come onto the market if we sack Moyes, so I say let’s go for it!
Anna,
as you are new to football then you will not know that it is a worlwide game.Some of the managers you have mentioned ARE better coaches than moyes and that is why they have worked at bigger clubs than everton or for england even.Moyes has done a good job,but in 5 years nothing has changed in terms of consistancy,style,invention,or simple footballing principles.Im saying that another 5 years of this aint good.Fair enough qualifiying,now we need to go and look like winning something or have you forgotten that that is what football is about at this level.Moyes aint the man to win anything,maybe one day the penny will drop with the likes of yourself..and he certainly wont win the LMA manager of the year again,as if you havent noticed he has spent a few quid,no limited recources anymore..
as you are new to football then you will not know that it is a worlwide game.Some of the managers you have mentioned ARE better coaches than moyes and that is why they have worked at bigger clubs than everton or for england even.Moyes has done a good job,but in 5 years nothing has changed in terms of consistancy,style,invention,or simple footballing principles.Im saying that another 5 years of this aint good.Fair enough qualifiying,now we need to go and look like winning something or have you forgotten that that is what football is about at this level.Moyes aint the man to win anything,maybe one day the penny will drop with the likes of yourself..and he certainly wont win the LMA manager of the year again,as if you havent noticed he has spent a few quid,no limited recources anymore..
Nice one Anna,
Sounds like your guy could be just what we’re looking for ?
Sounds like your guy could be just what we’re looking for ?
Clever clever Anna, but I wonder if a number of you posting here have quite grasped that we were extraordinarily close this week to going out of Europe at the first hurdle for the second time in a row with Moyes?
That is what this is all about. Of course Moyes has helped us to do a lot better in the Premiership. No-one seriously disputes that. The question is whether he can take us any further, especially in Europe. On the basis of the games against Metalist, there is a lot of reasons to doubt whether he can.
All the names you mention are British scrapper managers, and are therefore irrelevant. The question is whether Everton need a more sophisticated, probably continental European manager, to take us further. Any thoughts on that amongst the happy tendency here?
That is what this is all about. Of course Moyes has helped us to do a lot better in the Premiership. No-one seriously disputes that. The question is whether he can take us any further, especially in Europe. On the basis of the games against Metalist, there is a lot of reasons to doubt whether he can.
All the names you mention are British scrapper managers, and are therefore irrelevant. The question is whether Everton need a more sophisticated, probably continental European manager, to take us further. Any thoughts on that amongst the happy tendency here?
Right here are a few names, I will leave it to you guys to discuss who wold say yes to come to this fickle fan paradise: :
Marco Van Basten
Ronald Koeman
Jose Mourinho
Big Phillipe "Scrapper" Scolari
Vinny Samways
Rudi Voller
Gianluca Vialli
Juan Ramos
Vinny Samways has taken his coaching badges and haas European experience. Mymoney is on him if moyes gets the elbow.
Marco Van Basten
Ronald Koeman
Jose Mourinho
Big Phillipe "Scrapper" Scolari
Vinny Samways
Rudi Voller
Gianluca Vialli
Juan Ramos
Vinny Samways has taken his coaching badges and haas European experience. Mymoney is on him if moyes gets the elbow.
Jonothan
If you want my opinion, i think mr moyes is doing ok with the squad he’s got injuries aside top 5 and quality players to come back in cahill, vaughan and gravesen .
I am realistic and know that we havent got bags of money and are not going to be in the top four in the forseable future but then again david moyes and the squad have suprised us before.
I am passionate about Everton as is any one of us on here and like you want success.
Surprisngly i dont post my comments on here for an argument. I would though as i said before just like people, Not you in particular Jon to occasionally complement mr moyes and his team on what they have done and get behind them.
Maybe you think the last Five years have been a faliure but i dont but we could go back to the more succesfull Walter Smith era
Thanks anyway
COYB
Three points at the Barcodes
If you want my opinion, i think mr moyes is doing ok with the squad he’s got injuries aside top 5 and quality players to come back in cahill, vaughan and gravesen .
I am realistic and know that we havent got bags of money and are not going to be in the top four in the forseable future but then again david moyes and the squad have suprised us before.
I am passionate about Everton as is any one of us on here and like you want success.
Surprisngly i dont post my comments on here for an argument. I would though as i said before just like people, Not you in particular Jon to occasionally complement mr moyes and his team on what they have done and get behind them.
Maybe you think the last Five years have been a faliure but i dont but we could go back to the more succesfull Walter Smith era
Thanks anyway
COYB
Three points at the Barcodes
does it all really matter?
Danny I heard Vinny Samways is going to star in the remake of Worzul Gummidge, to get back to the point though this thread lost it’s way some time ago with blatant kids hiding behind the poorest pseudonyms I’ve seen on here, the boards as has been posted too many times are for debate, the extremists get quite rightly slated, if you have a good stage for debate then post and wait for the replies don’t just claim one side or the other as gospel, in my opinion the first half was woeful and Metalist showed us up playing relatively simple pass and move football, we made the sort of mistakes I’ve not seen since I coached under 11s years ago. The second half improved after the substitutions and yes the lads fought and earned the result but that result could easily have been out of reach against a better side. As for Moyes learning from mistakes then sometimes he does and a lot of times he doesn’t; Phil Neville is not a midfielder yet he continues most of his games there and after more bad games than good it took injury to remove Tony Hibbert from the right back position, we all make mistakes but some don’t keep repeating them as often.
Absolutely bang on the money Jim
Glad I’m not the only one who can recognise that the PE teacher is now well and truly out of his depth
Glad I’m not the only one who can recognise that the PE teacher is now well and truly out of his depth
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1 Posted 06/10/2007 at 09:07:20
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Thanks for the extremely arrogant and fundementally negative post.
3 things stand out for me and I will not beat around the bush here:
1) We are ravaged by injuries to KEY personnel - Tim Cahill, Thomas Graveson, Andy Johnson not to mention the previously in-form Jamie Vaughan.
2) We played in what is well regarded as one of the worst places to go in Europe, the Eastern Block which will have undoubtedly added to the difficulty in application from the players.
3) We won, we got through and we are in the draw for Tuesday.
There, all summed up for you hope it isn;t too positive for you to digest.