Column Bill Kenwright: Having to do the hard things the hard way! Chris Regan 22/08/2007 54comments | Jump to last Kenwright comes in for lots of stick from us Blues; even I occasionally want to drag him out of Goodison and send him into exile. But when you look at what he is doing with the club, the resources he has and the improvements he has made rationally, you realise he is doing not such a bad job. Firstly he took over a club in turmoil & terminal decline. Poor squad, poor training facilities, youth academy miles away from the training ground, a stadium about to collapse and little business acumen. Since then, he has appointed Moyes and importantly backed him in the transfer market as best he can and kept the faith when many would have sacked him (see Martin Jol at Tottenham). The squad is looking stronger, no doubt about it, and Moyes did take a relegation-quality squad into fourth place. The training facilities have now moved to a new site which by all accounts is first class. Bellefield will be redeveloped and the money will return to the clubs coffers. This new facility will also encompass the youth set up. Seriously do other Premier League clubs have their youth set-up miles away from their training ground? Next there is our home, our spiritual home. (My heart says ?no? but my head says ?yes?.) Liverpool City Council are to blame for this. They have known for ten years Everton were looking for a new site to build on. Yet they did nothing! Stanley Park? we were told was a no, until LFC turned up (by the way they still have not got permission to build on a Grade Two listed park yet, but they have fenced the area off.) Kings Dock! the council wanted an arena there for decades! They dawdled about until we could no longer get NWDA funding and then slyly built a concert arena (too many sly Kopites in LCC). Finally the ?business savvy? of the club: for years the board tried to half-heartedly copy what other clubs did; now we are clearly moving forward, with new ground, new academy and training facilities. New perspective! Kenwright is dragging this club kicking and screaming into the future. He is after all probably the least wealthy Premier League club owner and has significantly altered the club's structure with limited funds. He is making some difficult decisions and acting on them. Reader Comments Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer Jim P 1 Posted 22/08/2007 at 13:48:34 Report abuse Chris, I agree with your sentiments. I think too many fans are blinkered and live in fantasy worlds. They compare us to Chelsea, Man U, etc, and moan about how we’re not competing. Yet all these clubs have billionaire backers who pile the dosh into players we can’t compete for (without ruining us - Leeds style). These billionaires don’t, in reality, give two stuffs for these clubs other than as businesses or extensions to their egos. Kenwright, far from perfect, is a passionate Blue and to me that means something. Plus, he is trying to bring better players to the club and to support Moyes. Good luck to them both. Gavin Ramejkis 2 Posted 22/08/2007 at 14:02:04 Report abuse Your beloved Chairman Bill is living every true blue’s dream; to run their beloved club but failing that he has constantly hidden behind lie after lie, failed in all his promises and his acumen is questionable, don’t give me this saint Bill bollocks he’s out of his depth and ability and his current vanishing trick whilst the single most important decision about Everton Football Club this century is going on puts him in his true light - shithouse Tim K 3 Posted 22/08/2007 at 14:02:59 Report abuse We are now more in debt then at any point in our history. We have sold everything we own.We are about to vote to move to a cheap stadium in another towns retail park.Great job Bill.There is postive thinking and there is naivety...this piece is the latter. Bootle Blue 4 Posted 22/08/2007 at 14:12:48 Report abuse His heart is in the right place. His head. quite often, isn’t.Moving to Kirby is just a mistake; a really big dumb mistake. We throw away the advantage of being in Liverpool for a cow-shed in Kirby (have you seen the designs? christ they are crap - really cheap tacky shit).Bill’s done his best, and I love him for that; but he’s taking us away from Liverpool based on a vote where the board have managed to completely dominate the agenda using fear tactics to force a ’Yes’ vote, and I hate him for that. Eric Myles 5 Posted 22/08/2007 at 14:15:51 Report abuse Greg conveniently ignoresa ll the bullshit from BK(24/7, Kings Dock, Fortress Fund etc.) and God knows I’m not a BK supporter but I can understand why he’d be keeping a low profile on the vote. If I was in the same position I wouldn’t want to be seen to be vociferously pushing for a Yes when my heart tells me No. Mike Hunt 6 Posted 22/08/2007 at 14:19:45 Report abuse Great article Chris, I whole heartedly and whole headedly agree. It is doubtless admirable and ambitious to think we can compete with the likes of Man U are Chelsea without making hard and painful decisions, but we ain’t the Mersey Millionaires any more and the Moores are long gone. I’d rather stick with Blue Bill (warts n all) and the new ground in Kirkby rather than a yankee bowl elsewhere having sold our soul to a foreigner with no real understanding of the soul of EFC. Unfortunately we gotta keep it real. No good looking at the mantlepiece when poking the fire etc. Delusions of grandeur aint gonna help us. Sean Rimmer 7 Posted 22/08/2007 at 14:34:43 Report abuse Doddy was telling all who woud listen in the Freshfield last night that’the Everton people’are sure the Kikby vote is won and that his hero ’Blue Bill’ intends to unveil Manny and Yac holding up a montage of the Tescodrome under a banner saying ’The People’s Choice’.How corny can you get but how bloody typically Kenwright! Bluebyu 8 Posted 22/08/2007 at 14:47:21 Report abuse Everything I read that everyone writes I find interesting but it all boils down to no more than opinion.I eagerly await a FACT to substantiate opinion. Winning some silverwear would go a long way to help me understand progression.Now that would be a FACT. Brian Noble 9 Posted 22/08/2007 at 15:10:16 Report abuse Take care,Bluebyu!When I wrote something similar as an addendum to an earlier posting,I got panned by all and sundry.Don’t you realise that progress is being better than Johnson or Walter Smith.Don’t be so demanding.Winning things indeed!How dare you! Richard Dodd 10 Posted 22/08/2007 at 15:14:39 Report abuse Young Sean dissembles.What I actually said last night was that the Everton people EXPECTED the vote to be positive and DONT BE SURPRISED to see Manny and Yac introduced with a montage and banner.This afternoon’s news on Yacubu seems to bear out that yet again,Davey has brought home the bacon! colin 11 Posted 22/08/2007 at 15:43:56 Report abuse Chris, What a complete load of utter bollocks af an article.Kenwright is a serial liar and a con man to boot.How naive can a person get??I suppose you thought Al Capone was a charity worker!No wonder wer’e moving to Kirkby with all these gullible people still believing Billy Liar!! Brian Finnigan 12 Posted 22/08/2007 at 15:32:16 Report abuse Richard Dodd....who are the "the Everton people" to whom you refer who are expecting the vote to be positive? We are all Everton people; equal by dint of time served. How dare you use such an inclusive phrase when (I assume) you are trying to describe the hierarchy (some of whom possess very dubious Everton credentials) that has engineered this madness. I know of many Everton people who had valid claims for a ballot paper and yet have been denied the opportunity to vote by the incompetence of the very people you lionise. Neil Pearse 13 Posted 22/08/2007 at 16:00:46 Report abuse Not often I find myself agreeing with Doddy, but how DO all you Kenwright haters square your complaints with the fact that - in the last twelve months - this man has found the money to bring in Johnson, Lescott, Howard, Jagielka, Baines, Fernandes and Yakubu to our club? Almost an entire team of exciting young internationals. I’m not sure what it would take to make some of you happy. Rob F 14 Posted 22/08/2007 at 16:10:12 Report abuse great article. the club is moving forward leaps and bounds every year. if we do land the yak and fernandes this would have been another excellent summer. here’s looking forward to moyes, wyness and kenwright bringing european football to kirkby. Gavin Ramejkis 15 Posted 22/08/2007 at 16:32:05 Report abuse Neil Pearse if any of us owned a Premiership Club we too would have "found" the money to sign players it’s called the Sky TV deal not a business magic trick it’s a handout to ALL teams in the Premier League as part of the TV sponsorship deal, can you name any tangible investment he has found? Earl bought Gregg out the money went between the two of them not to the club and Dickie Dodd when you finally pull your head out of Bill’s arse can you please learn how to spell Aiyegbeni Yakubu’s name it has not got a "c" in it. Gavin Ramejkis 16 Posted 22/08/2007 at 16:42:42 Report abuse and before the smart arse response I’ve seen his name written both ways around predominantly not the way I’ve done it - Yakubu Aiyegbeni Neil Pearse 17 Posted 22/08/2007 at 16:44:04 Report abuse Well, Gavin, one widespread rumour is that Earl put up the money for Fernandes and Yakubu. If true, Bill certainly found that. In any case, all the Premiership got Sky TV money, and few (any outside the top four?) have got the players we now have. And I forgot the fact that this year we found the money to substantially up the pay of Cahill and Arteta, thus keeping two highly sought after stars at the club. But you’re not going to give Bill any credit for that either are you? El Greco 18 Posted 22/08/2007 at 16:12:47 Report abuse When Bill Kenwright took over our club we were more than happy that it had fallen into the hands of a true blue who,s ambition was to make us great again.He sees himself as no more or less a fan than any of us.His decision to allow us a vote on the Kirkby moveshows a respect that few other premiership chairmen show their respective clubs supporters.Far from shirking responsibility,he has been bold enough to bring us all in on a major decision in our great club,s future.I don,t care how any of you voted.If I,m on the losing side,tough,I,ll go with the majority.What I won,t do is castigate a good man who,s only desire is to see a successful Everton,who takes no reward for his efforts and works tirelessly on our behalf.Just think what would have been said if the board had come up with the Kirkby site with no finanial plan or stadium graphics. "Oh by the way we,ve got this field in Kirkby and we,re going to move there in 2010.We don,t know where the money,s coming from and we haven,t thought about a design or capacity yet"Now that would have been put down as irresponsible madness,yet the fact that they came up with the financial plan and a stadium design is put down by some as propaganda.It seems that for some,no matter what the board does it does no right.The KEIOC layout in St Georges Hall was propaganda.It works both ways,but,if it doesn,t work your way don,t spit your dummy out and gripe.I hope that whichever way the vote goes next week we can all accept the result and move on to a brighter tomorrow with the club we all hold dear to our hearts. bluefrank 19 Posted 22/08/2007 at 17:42:59 Report abuse kenwright has bourght a rolls royce but cant afford the petrol and wont let any one else play with it that is why we have got no investment Terrymarsbar 20 Posted 22/08/2007 at 17:36:02 Report abuse Gavin RamejkisQuite frankly fella your a bit twisted, Kenwright dug this club out of the shit by buying it and taking on something that nobody else,at the time ,would touch with a bargepole...we were fighting relegation every season..and considered safety by april an achievement..Now under kenwright and Moyes(another love of your life)..we are a regular top 10 side on the up..the only club to break the "big fours" monopoly on champions league qualification and now a european place becomes our minimum expectation...not good enough?Well the average age of the squad has dropped from 30+ to 25 every one a salable asset..nearly all internationals..with more on the way..and an investment in a new training facility(state of the art).But with you its all doom and gloom, I look forward to us winning on Saturday and then not having to read your tripe..until of course we lose or draw..as all teams do..you sad sad man Gavin Ramejkis 21 Posted 22/08/2007 at 17:51:13 Report abuse Neil thanks for the reply although it’s only rumour about who paid for Yakubu and Fernandes and as for massive salary hikes again hearsay with the club having a wage cap they were more likely brought in line with top earners at the time such as the now departed Beattie. I can’t wait to see Yakubu and Fernandes playing this Saturday though if we can get them tied up in time. Mark Creevy 22 Posted 22/08/2007 at 17:46:17 Report abuse I really wish we still had that nice Peter Johnson fella at the helm. Why did he have to sell up to that miserly bastard, when all those billionaire consortia were vying for our ownership?The way Bill Kenwright has destroyed this club and scared all of these people off is unforgivable in my opinion, and the man should be birched.Short memories or what? Bill Kenwright is far from perfect, but he’s far from Peter ’DJ Spuddles’ Johnson, too. Terrymarsbars 23 Posted 22/08/2007 at 17:59:23 Report abuse Do we speak the same language?I quote." as for massive salary hikes again hearsay with the club having a wage cap they were more likely brought in line with top earners at the time such as the now departed Beattie". Thats a salary hike you imbecile..I reckon your names really Gavin Rogers , but you cant spell it properly.!! Brian Finnigan 24 Posted 22/08/2007 at 17:31:39 Report abuse Is the money from Robert Earle a gift? Does he expect to get it back? If he does then it is the Club’s money and therefore part of the Club’s debt. For a Club, that has been crying poverty for years, and which has a reported debt of £45M, to be spending approximately another £45M on players during a 13 month period is frightening (notwithstanding the increased Sky money). Although happy with the improved personnel, I suspect that the Club are doing no more than an incumbent Government does during an election year. What often follows a boom is a bust. I hope that the Club are not relying on the Tescodrome to produce sufficient additional income to service the ever-increasing debt. If the Kirkby stadium proves less of a cash cow than Kenwright thinks then we will be seeing a fire sale similar to that at Leeds when they overstretched themselves. Look what Division that Club are in now. Terrymarsbar 25 Posted 22/08/2007 at 18:06:14 Report abuse If we hadnt spent the money Brian Finnigan would now be saying:"I suspect that the Club are doing no more than holding on to our money just in case the Kirkby development. is a bust. I hope that the Club are not relying on the Tescodrome to produce sufficient additional income to service the ever-increasing debt. If the Kirkby stadium proves less of a cash cow than Kenwright thinks he canuse our transfer funds to bale himself out. Look what state this Club are in now. European regulars..its diabolical , I cant afford extra money for tickets and flights??? The thoughtless bastards. Neil Pearse 26 Posted 22/08/2007 at 18:05:19 Report abuse My God! One minute the chairman and manager are under fire for not spending money on new players ("we are no better than Portsmouth or Wigan!"). The next minute the chairman and manager are under fire for buying new players ("we are going to turn into Leeds!").Hopefully Bill and Davey don’t read this website or they would make many of you happy by committing suicide in despair. Terrymarsbar 27 Posted 22/08/2007 at 18:11:45 Report abuse Bluefrank Kenwright bought himself a clapped out vintage car with loads of service history..but rust to go with it..What he has since been doing is carefully and lovingly restoring it to its former glory,He understands he cant do this overnight and he may have to look high and low for the parts but he is definately getting there..and soon enough.he will have iit purring like a kitten..with admiring glances everywhere it goes..He may even get it a brand new garage, to make sure thta all that hard work dont go to waste. John Crawley 28 Posted 22/08/2007 at 18:03:26 Report abuse Chris please don’t let the facts get in the way of your fantasy about Bill Kenwright. Just to look at 2 of the most recent articles that have been posted on Toffeeweb simply disprove what you are saying. Firstly Joe Beardwood’s article which showed that in the last 7 years we have gone from a position of having net assests of £18 million to net liabilities of £10.3million. Secondly the article written by Greg Murphy called Too Late To Cry clearly shows that you cannot blame LCC for everything particularly when there has been gross mismanagement from the Everton Board. Finally if that is not enough you just have to look at the Kings Dock fiasco and the lack of leadership. To this day this fiasco has never been properly explained. Throw in the total lack of trying to get additional finance into the club via the fans and in my opinion Bill Kenwright has very little to be proud of concerning his running of Everton Footbal Club.Neil Pearse - you’ve changed your tune from an earlier post and I quote: "Whatever way you look at it, as a majority owner Bill has to go". Brian Finnigan 29 Posted 22/08/2007 at 18:15:53 Report abuse When have I ever criticized the lack of spending on players? I think my only posting on that subject said "If we spent this years money last year, why can’t we spend next years money this year?" I was asking a question (tongue in cheek) not encouraging profligacy. I am feeling guilty now....I did not expect Bill to misconstrue my question.I have tended to concentrate on matters such as what the Manager does with the players at his disposal...team selection, hoofball, fleeting possession, etc. and latterly the debate about Kirkby, propaganda, democracy or lack thereof. I do not use a nome de plume but if I did, no doubt I too would be blessed/cursed with the gift of clairvoyance. If Bill does do something drastic, I bet it will be stage-managed and probably involve drowning in bullshit on prime time T.V. Brian Finnigan 30 Posted 22/08/2007 at 18:40:58 Report abuse Neil and Mr. Marsbar.....I have posted a response but it is half way down the page (for some reason). Gavin Ramejkis 31 Posted 22/08/2007 at 18:50:42 Report abuse Terry Marsbar a few words to describe you - bitter prick that can’t stand anyone who has a different point of view than you gobshite, deep fry that you prick Gavin Ramejkis 32 Posted 22/08/2007 at 18:53:49 Report abuse and how about spelling? From a prick hiding behind a pseudonym because you ashamed or can’t spell your real name? Mark Stone 33 Posted 22/08/2007 at 18:53:46 Report abuse Chris, at the risk of sounding positive about Everton, I couldn’t agree more with you. We’ve got a vastly better team on the field than we did when he took over, we’ve got a great new training facility and we’re hopefully getting a good new stadium. I can’t see why people don’t like him. I think its just one of those things though, fans hate the chairman. Up here in Newcastle they absolutely despise Shephard but from where I’m sitting he redeveloped the ground fantastically, he consistently backed the manager, and always recruited popular managers that at the time no Geordie’s would have argued with. Go figure Terrymarsbar 34 Posted 22/08/2007 at 19:13:01 Report abuse Gavin...I assume thats your real name?..you are actually almost becoming threatning now...I mean the big strong names you call people from the safety of your ward.Why oh why, should i give out my name to somebody as obviously in need of a padded cell as yourself...what does the name I use have anything to do with my views?How can you call me bitter..?? what am I bitter about..get somebody to read out the definition of the word from the DICTIONARY..thats a big book..unfortunately ,no picturesIf there were pictures..you would be in it under..mmmm.BITTER Neil Pearse 35 Posted 22/08/2007 at 19:14:59 Report abuse Fair point John! I think one reason I’ve changed my tune to be more positive about BK is because of the relentless unfair negativity by many on this site. I’ve always thought that BK was basically a decent guy doing his best for the club. I just wondered if he had enough money, or get hold of enough, to take us on. However, I wrote that BK has to go when it looked like he could not find the funds to buy the likes of Fernandes and Yakubu. And hence potentially take us to the next level. But, fairs fair, I don’t know how he’s done it, but he has.I still think that in the long run, we may still need a richer owner. But who knows? As long as we can buy the likes of Manny and the Yak, I for one am happy. And I give BK the credit, just the same as I was unhappy with him when it seemed we couldn’t afford them. Terrymarsbar 36 Posted 22/08/2007 at 19:24:53 Report abuse I think Neil Pearse should be applauded for having the guts to say he got it wrong...He may in the future change his views again,,thats his perogative, at least when things have changed he has managed to see things from a different perspective..Too many people on here made their minds up years ago and nothing that happens willalter it..mainly because some..not all, have spouted such vile shite that they are afraid to acknowledge they may have made a mistake.I even believe that "if" we move to kirkby and it all turns out to be a huge success, they will still turn their backs on the club..simply because they have said they will.. Neil Pearse 37 Posted 22/08/2007 at 19:57:06 Report abuse I think the saying is: ’when the facts change, I change my mind’. Same as about (sorry to bring it up) Kirkby. I am a YES voter, mainly because I believe that it is too big a risk to miss out on Kirkby when I doubt there will be any other viable options for us, practically and financially.But if the vote is NO, and we find that there is another option in the city which somehow we can afford, I will have been wrong, and I will change my mind, and I will be DELIGHTED.I hope that those who are NOs will be similarly be prepared to be open to what happens, and to change their minds about Kirkby if that’s the way it goes. Hey Tony, maybe corporate fat cats will buy corporate boxes there after all, new young Blues will flock there in their thousands to see our European conquering team, and Genesis (or whoever) will play a sell-out concert in Knowsley? You never know! joey 38 Posted 22/08/2007 at 20:11:41 Report abuse Just watched the BK vid on the official website . . . fuccccckkkkkeeeennn elllllllyes voters tune in, tune in you gullible fools Michael Kenrick 39 Posted 22/08/2007 at 21:13:07 Report abuse Gavin & Terry: Pack it in now, or I will pack it in for you. You both know the rules about slinging abuse. And Terry; I have requested that you use your real name. Please do so. Thanks. Terrymarsbar 40 Posted 22/08/2007 at 22:03:00 Report abuse Micheal..Sorry mate but I reserve my right to use a moniker same as anybody else,and you have never requested I use my "real" name..!I realise you tend to come down on opposite side of much of what I have to say..and if you want to stop abuse ..dont allow any posts from Tony or Gavin..unless they can write something that does not contain, Fuck , Twat, Cunt,Wanker,Prick , Gobshite..etc,etc.Censorship..for disagreeing with the nocamp/moyes out brigade...yes a well run open debate.. Terrymarsbar 41 Posted 22/08/2007 at 22:09:43 Report abuse Would just like to mention ..if anybody is remotely interested..I have went by the name of "marsbar" for years..its even on the back of my shirts, all my mates call me it..and hundreds of people only know me as that..occasionally "Mars" for short... Im sure others on here do really answer to "El Greco,,or Bluefrank" without the unmasking ceremony being put forward.. jimmymilkyway 42 Posted 22/08/2007 at 22:34:28 Report abuse with you Terry lad Richard Dodd 43 Posted 22/08/2007 at 23:09:36 Report abuse My real name is Richard Dodd and unlike so many on this site I have the courage to state it openly.You will know by now that I think Messrs Kenwright,Moyes and Wyness are doing a great job at Everton and we will soon have a team and ground worthy of the great tradition of our club.Mr Kenwright is the principal shareholder and as Chairman is responsible for seeing that the club is adequately financed to achieve its-and our- aims.So far he has not been found wanting in this task so I am amazed that so many people who don’t a single share suddenly are concerned ’where the money is coming from’.Were I he,I would tell you to mind your own business -or buy a share and read the annual accounts.It short,brothers (and sisters) it ain’t your concern-or worry!Let’s all enjoy the Club’s bright future.PS Remember, if you haven’t the guts to give your name ,your opinion is of no worth or relevance! Frank Mcgregor 44 Posted 23/08/2007 at 02:16:35 Report abuse Congatulations Chris on an excellent article the site could do with more of this calibre of comment no profanity,no character assination of any individual and as Lyndon wrote last week this site should not be used for that.Yes I totally agree that the club has come along way in the past six years thanks to Bill Kenwright and the rest of the board.I am looking forward to the day when I can walk into the new stadium in Kirby. Think positive get on board with the club moving forward or be left behind. This new season is looking full of promise as far as Iam concerned.By the way this is my real name and I would encourage those who are extremely uptight about the vote and the board try smiling after all it’s about the game of football. ged simpson 45 Posted 23/08/2007 at 05:37:02 Report abuse Amazing. Bloody amazing.We’re talking about having the "courage" to put our names to an opinion about a football club.If it comes to this they should close the bloody club down."It’s because I care" So do we all but to stoop to this is childish at best, threatening at worst. If you’ve the intelligence to actually connect to the internet, you must surely be bright enough to take one step back and realise you are creating a climate where many fans wouldn’t want to share a stand with you.Nil Satis Nisi Optimum.........jesus, the person who made that our motto must be turning in his grave. El Greco 46 Posted 23/08/2007 at 08:35:39 Report abuse Terrymarsbar:re nicknames.Marsy,I,ve been El Greco to my family for 50 years.I don,t hide behind it.I,ll gladly post my name if you think it,s really necessary. Tony Marsh 47 Posted 23/08/2007 at 12:26:22 Report abuse Utter Rubbish Kenwright screwed the Kings Dock up not the council.All it needed from our end was the £30 million which BK said he had went he didnt.How fucking hard is that to grasp.Kenwright your wonderfull chairman lied to us all and now we are in this mess. Chris Regan 48 Posted 23/08/2007 at 12:38:24 Report abuse After reading some of you comments (most disagreeing with what I said) I feel many of you have only focused on the Kirkby issue. Neglecting my other comments about the training facilities This is where Moyes will prove if he can bring on blood new talent himself.Secondly there are times when I wish Kenwright would disapear. I am not a true fan of his. I just accept that there are limitations to what one person can do. Regarding the issue of investors in the club we do have an image problem, which I believe many investors would be put off by.Furthermore other off putting issues such as investing in new training facilities to make the club competitive are being removed by the boardFinally I am not Naive. I have a Masters degree, I have expereince indealing with Business to Business marketing and relationships. I have a wide network of business contacts and when I discuss the facts of investing Everton they site many such problems of why investors wont invest. Such as a new ground is required.The need to radically overhaul the previous business model amongst other things.So ’Naive’, I am not, ’Kenwright lover’, I am not. 100% for Kirkby I am not, its more 60/40 in favour.One final thought, perhaps at Kirkby we can stop looking across the Park. Dave Brierley 49 Posted 23/08/2007 at 14:19:51 Report abuse Wondered how long it would take for "King Negative Marsh" to join the other whingers.We’ve just signed another 2 cracking players, we’re currently sitting 4th in the best league in the world and "we are in this mess". Good reasoned article Chris. Keep the faith. Tony Marsh 50 Posted 23/08/2007 at 15:22:43 Report abuse Yes Dave your right 4th in the league but this season we should of been kicking off in the best Staduim in the world at Kings Dock.Instead we are voting on a move to an Industrial wasteland cowshed arena.Thats all I was saying.If its not Kenwrights fault the I know Blame Me..... Terrymarsbar 51 Posted 23/08/2007 at 15:54:49 Report abuse EL GRECO:You can call yourself anything you want in my opinion..it matters not.Of course to some people when you put reasoned facts before them all they have left is to complain that you are "hiding" behind your user name.I on many occasions am just re-iterating that i believe..with the resources at his disposal that Mr Moyes has worked wonders and that since Bill Kenwright took over the club has been on a steady upward spiral..THESE ARE FACTS..Yes Moyes makes mistakes,Yes Kenwright makes mistakes..but the positives (in my opinion) far outweigh the negatives.1 squads average age lowered bt 7 yrs2 majority of squad internationals3European qualification EXPECTED instead of just premiership survival. 4 Brand new state of the art training facilities..5 Huge increase in clubs turnover6 And of course ..Brand new stadium to come..Now if I deserve to be called what I have been for stating these facts..I apologise.These are not what ifs or conspiracy theories or my believing anything the board says..theseare indisputable facts of the change in Everton under BK and DM...The future is bright Tony Marsh 52 Posted 23/08/2007 at 16:33:49 Report abuse Yep your right there Terry.The futres bright all right .With 24 hour shopping at Tescos it will never go dark near our new ground on the retail park with all those lights on.Will Mcdonalds and carpet world still be open after nights games? If so you can take the kids and the missus with youon a matchday/shopping day out.Wont that be nice McKinney 53 Posted 23/08/2007 at 16:26:11 Report abuse I can’t believe we are now lowered to an argument about nick-names!Does it matter what it is posted under, as long as you can identify who you are responding to. They know, and you know, so what’s the difference. I don’t know who Gavin is anymore than I know who Marsbar is so turn it in. Do you want a full postal address as well.If you don’t agree then fine. Let’s not get too aggressive about it, it’s only a debate FFS!I must agree that despite the Kings Dock, it has generally been an improvement since BK got in. May have been better with someone else, may not! Hind-sight is a beautiful thing and fore-sight would be even nicer. Then we’d really know what to do next.I would put my full name but the majority would still not know who I am so what’s the point. Get back to the issues at hand as all sites like this are littered with nick-names.COYB Terrymarsbar 54 Posted 23/08/2007 at 19:50:53 Report abuse I understand your sceptiscism Tony.But you know what it might just be nice...A decent well aired family boozer or maybe a pizza hut where I can take my lads before the game or after.. mine are aged 10 and 16(tomorrow)..just got his GCse’s he got nine...proud as punch..The old way aint always the best way...We went to the preseason game at Bury and I had to walk out of the pub we were in cos a group of our loyal supporters with a KEIOC banner were having loads of fun singing such dittys as "Everton are white" and that old favourite "trigger trigger trigger , shoot that N***er"Wonderful stuff..not the type of stuff for carpet world I know..and Im not saying that you or even anybody else on here is responsible for this type of thing..but there areso many ways this club has to change, moving is just one of them..If it were in Liverpool I would be happier..but it looks like it wont be..but I dont see it as the end..more like a fresh start..there are lots of reason people dont go to goodison..poor facilities,racism,restricted views just being a few of them..and yes places like the Reebok and the Riverside dont have much atmosphere..but thats down to the fact that its Bolton and Middlesboro...We are EVERTON..ffsWe cant be compared to them..After all this conjecture you may be right..or I may be right..it may fall somwhere in the middle..But Everton FC will always be there and it will always be huge..some people have all the money, the stadium, the city centre.. NUFC..but they dont have the privelige we have had..Alan Ball.1970, Graeme Sharp..Andy Gray.Trevor Steven..winnin trophies, Wembley..Rotterdam..moving house wont change that..Im sure © ToffeeWeb