FAN ARTICLES
An Utter Disgrace
By Chris Butler :: 12/02/2012 I accept the problems of racism amongst fans is something that is very hard to counteract as football clubs don’t know who is going to turn up to their games and what their opinions may be.
165 Everton have worked very hard to try and clean up their act, employing black coaches, making efforts to make sure every ethnic group feels welcome at GP. Everton have set up a scheme where fans can report incidents of racist behaviour to club employees who will then pass on evidence to the police and the courts. This in my eyes is a very good way of combating racism in GP.
Unfortunately this wasn’t always the case as many will know John Barnes received some merciless racist abuse when he played against us. The then Liverpool manager Kenny Daglish supported Barnes and was quick to tell the media that racism wasn’t a problem within Liverpool FC as many reporters speculated. He even devotes parts of his autobiography to talk about the abuse John Barnes suffered... fast-forward to 2011: Daglish rallies round in support of a racist.
He makes excuses for a player who has brought nothing but disrepute to the game since arriving in England a year ago. Any reasonable minded person would admit his behaviour was unacceptable and would punish the player internally, instead Daglish supports him, essentially justifying racism in football.
The fact nobody told Suarez calling Glen Johnson Negro isn’t regarded as being racist in the UK just shows how deeply ingrained racism is at Liverpool FC. Clubs cannot control their behaviour of their fans as I’ve previously stated but they can try and encourage proper fans, to discourage the more idiotic elements of their support to behave.
I wondered how the elderly Jamaican and African immigrants felt listening to a black man being abused for reporting racism. They’ll have probably felt that all the abuse they suffered when they arrived when coming to this country is still acceptable in the sport their grandchildren love.
Since when has it become acceptable to abuse the victims of racial abuse? Liverpool fans have also racially abused an Oldham player and 1 fan was caught making monkey gestures to Evra. Despite all this behaviour Liverpool only got a slap on the wrist, in any other profession an employee would be sacked for racially abusing a member of the public why is Football any different?
Everton worked closely with the police to prosecute a fan who racially abused Saha on Twitter and Everton FC banned Dave Sibson for 3 years after abusing Saha.
Surely it’s time for the FA and other football clubs to stand up and say this is unacceptable. It’s no wonder that many black fans are scared to attend games due to the fear of being the victim of racist abuse.
Even Neil Lennon, an Irish Catholic, has told elements of the Celtic support to stop singing sectarian songs, why have Liverpool made no attempt at trying to discourage racist elements amongst their support?
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Chris, as per usual some wild assumptions and untruth's in this.
My own opinion on this is Evertonians should keep their mouths firmly shut and leave the R/S to hang themselves.
Posters who sit in certain areas of our ground or go to aways regular will know why I think we're best keeping quiet.
My own opinion on this is Evertonians should keep their mouths firmly shut and leave the R/S to hang themselves.
Posters who sit in certain areas of our ground or go to aways regular will know why I think we're best keeping quiet.
Some of the things iv'e heard our fans shout at away matches makes the Suarez incident pale in to insignificance.
Leave well alone...
Leave well alone...
Liverpool FC and their supporters have been an utter disgrace throughout this whole incident. The fact that Sewer Mouth Suarez and his Incomprehensible mumbling Jock Manager Dogleash have only now offered an apology after being ORDERED to do so by LFC's American owners, in a vain attempt to mitigate the financial damage done to the Club brand worldwide, just makes it all the more pathetic.
People in glass houses and all of that....
Dogleash is a dope and could have easily avoided it by being sensible and said something along the lines of "I haven't reviewed the situation and I will make a comment when I have", not go down the "bang out of order" route he did.
Suarez is scum, said it the second I saw him celebrating the penalty from the handball incident in the quarters of the World Cup and nothing has changed since to make me change my mind.
Dogleash is on thin ice now......
Dogleash is a dope and could have easily avoided it by being sensible and said something along the lines of "I haven't reviewed the situation and I will make a comment when I have", not go down the "bang out of order" route he did.
Suarez is scum, said it the second I saw him celebrating the penalty from the handball incident in the quarters of the World Cup and nothing has changed since to make me change my mind.
Dogleash is on thin ice now......
Rodwell sending off when clearly there was no contact. He even called our jack a negro – go figure that one. Happy days at LFC, eh!
What really grates me is these loonies on national newspaper message boards, supporting a team with the name of the city I was born and lived in for my first 40 years, coming out with 'it's a conspiracy' and 'we're being victimised'.
All of sudden, every other Kopite is an expert on the nuances of Uruguay language and culture and whinging about how badly treated they are by the FA
What utter shite!
They need to look closer to home and 'King Kenny' and his paranoid delusions and absolutely crap media management.
As someone has pointed out, all KK had to do is let out a statement telling the World that Suarez was subjected to internal discipline, even though the player believes he's done no wrong... he accepts whatever ban the FA impose
And that's it... the end of the matter. But what he's done with his Tee Shirts, his absurd, almost deranged interview and his trashing of Evra is foster an atmosphere of siege mentality at Liverpool FC and this is reflected in the whining of their supporters.
Un-fucking-believeable! The City of Liverpool were painted by the Right Wing press in the 1980s as 'Self Pity City' and it's a tag we've fought long and hard to shake off - now this dick-head Dalglish has unleashed the 'we're ard done by us' mob onto message boards all over the net...
Make no mistake - this has been a PR cock up of epic proportions and the best thing LFC could do is sell Suarez and give King Kenny a map to the nearest Job Centre... I'm quite sure Fenway Sports and the Yanks in charge have already issued an almighty bollocking to the Chief Exec.
Resign again Kenny - you're making the City of Liverpool look bad!
All of sudden, every other Kopite is an expert on the nuances of Uruguay language and culture and whinging about how badly treated they are by the FA
What utter shite!
They need to look closer to home and 'King Kenny' and his paranoid delusions and absolutely crap media management.
As someone has pointed out, all KK had to do is let out a statement telling the World that Suarez was subjected to internal discipline, even though the player believes he's done no wrong... he accepts whatever ban the FA impose
And that's it... the end of the matter. But what he's done with his Tee Shirts, his absurd, almost deranged interview and his trashing of Evra is foster an atmosphere of siege mentality at Liverpool FC and this is reflected in the whining of their supporters.
Un-fucking-believeable! The City of Liverpool were painted by the Right Wing press in the 1980s as 'Self Pity City' and it's a tag we've fought long and hard to shake off - now this dick-head Dalglish has unleashed the 'we're ard done by us' mob onto message boards all over the net...
Make no mistake - this has been a PR cock up of epic proportions and the best thing LFC could do is sell Suarez and give King Kenny a map to the nearest Job Centre... I'm quite sure Fenway Sports and the Yanks in charge have already issued an almighty bollocking to the Chief Exec.
Resign again Kenny - you're making the City of Liverpool look bad!
I looked through a few of their forums on Saturday afternoon and to be fair some of the people on their are extremely embarrased and are ashamed of what is happening to their club. But some of the filth aimed at Evra, inluding lots of monkey comments is disgraceful. And they seem obsessed by the Cantona kung fu kick and the Ferdinand dope test issue, maybe they should remember just how long the suspensions were for both of those incidents.
Spot on Kevin. I know normal sensible reds, old enough to know better, who just don't see it. Don't worry, queen kenny will quit just like he always does, but hopefully he will stay long enough to fuck them up so much that the Fenway mob will not be able to pull them out of their crash and burn nosedive...always look for the silver lining.
Now there's all this talk that Evra was the one that refused the handshake, and some facebook stuff doing the rounds showing some grainy slow mo pictures of his hand not fully extended. I'd be pretty reticent to shake the hand of a racist too!
I must say though, Suarez has issued an apology that shows a level of English most of us would be proud to possess. Well done him...
I must say though, Suarez has issued an apology that shows a level of English most of us would be proud to possess. Well done him...
Sadly, the mob mentality that pervades at football matches means, for some, that the normal rules of decent behaviour are suspended & they feel able to express themselves in a way that they know would be unaccaptable elsewhere in society. We have all experienced this with both our own & opposing supporters, home & away, over the years. The attitudes & views expressed are nothing to do with football, people come into the ground with established views. However, recent events have shown that all too many within the game also reflect society, in that they too hold racist views. Until attitudes across society change then these incidents will, inevitably, be repeated within the game.
Also, as regards this whole pre-match handshake business, presumably the act is supposed to be an indication of approaching the match in a sportsmanlike manner - if so, then to refuse to shake hands is unsportsmanlike & should have a mandatory punishment such as a red or yellow card. Alternatively, perhaps the whole process should be done away with - maybe not all these changes are progress after all.
Also, as regards this whole pre-match handshake business, presumably the act is supposed to be an indication of approaching the match in a sportsmanlike manner - if so, then to refuse to shake hands is unsportsmanlike & should have a mandatory punishment such as a red or yellow card. Alternatively, perhaps the whole process should be done away with - maybe not all these changes are progress after all.
Totally agree Kevin. I don't think we're saying look at us aren't we above reproach. When you get 30,000+ people in a stadium you're going to be hard pressed not to find some knobhead spouting shite but the thing that gets me is how the RS have circled the wagons to protect this prick. He's had eight matches and hours of media coverage to think over his actions and he walks out at OT and starts it all over again. I'm not saying the bloke is an out and out racist but he is an unholy cock and he's made an arse out of the RS big time. KK seems to suffering from dementia or something but I have to say - I found his performanced on SKY hilarious. But yes we shouldn't pontificate we should just sit back smugly and enjoy the comedy that is Liverpool PLC - anyone else think they've replaced Newcastle as the funniest team in the league at the moment??
I believe that racism and all things entangled with it is a dreadful scourge on not just football but society in general and is indeed a very difficult subject to discuss in an open manner.
The whole situation at Anfield has been mishandled by massive proportions and it seems no lessons learnt.
Yesterday's phone in on Radio 5 had the usual Red's calling in attacking Ferguson, with no hint of apology or remorse about their own club - - the usual - - "King Kenny" as if they know him - - the first 2 Reds fans/callers were from Kent and Glasgow.
Without wishing for some sort of witch-hunt I would also like the owners of Liverpool and Mr Daglish to now speak to Suarez about his general attitude on the pitch. Ask him to stop diving everywhere after every tackle, waving for cards every time anyone goes near him, pushing people away from him and his generally surly obnoxious manner on the pitch.
For me, his whole demeanor on Saturday from start to finish was disgracefulI. I can say with all honesty I would not like such a player, no matter how skillful he is, at our Club.
Finally, if anyone came into our Pub, The Dark House, wearing stupid provocative shirts, masks or whatever, we would tell them to behave – we have asked some Blues to tone down one or two songs in the pub in the past and cut a few words out of conversations.
Sometimes, Everton drive me crazy but I am proud that we do not roll around when tackled, waving for cards and harassing referees.
Maybe nowhere as "gifted" as Mr Suarez but Neville's conduct on and off the pitch has been exemplary – I have seen him on the end of some bad tackles but merely get up and get on with the game.
It feels good to be an Evertonian.
The whole situation at Anfield has been mishandled by massive proportions and it seems no lessons learnt.
Yesterday's phone in on Radio 5 had the usual Red's calling in attacking Ferguson, with no hint of apology or remorse about their own club - - the usual - - "King Kenny" as if they know him - - the first 2 Reds fans/callers were from Kent and Glasgow.
Without wishing for some sort of witch-hunt I would also like the owners of Liverpool and Mr Daglish to now speak to Suarez about his general attitude on the pitch. Ask him to stop diving everywhere after every tackle, waving for cards every time anyone goes near him, pushing people away from him and his generally surly obnoxious manner on the pitch.
For me, his whole demeanor on Saturday from start to finish was disgracefulI. I can say with all honesty I would not like such a player, no matter how skillful he is, at our Club.
Finally, if anyone came into our Pub, The Dark House, wearing stupid provocative shirts, masks or whatever, we would tell them to behave – we have asked some Blues to tone down one or two songs in the pub in the past and cut a few words out of conversations.
Sometimes, Everton drive me crazy but I am proud that we do not roll around when tackled, waving for cards and harassing referees.
Maybe nowhere as "gifted" as Mr Suarez but Neville's conduct on and off the pitch has been exemplary – I have seen him on the end of some bad tackles but merely get up and get on with the game.
It feels good to be an Evertonian.
Anyone noticed that the initials of King Kenny of the Kop are KKK?
That said I think I agree with the Kopites in the phone ins and it was definately Eric Cantona driving a white Fiat Uno in the underpass in Paris in 1996.
"Always the victims never to blame" couldn't have put it better myself.
That said I think I agree with the Kopites in the phone ins and it was definately Eric Cantona driving a white Fiat Uno in the underpass in Paris in 1996.
"Always the victims never to blame" couldn't have put it better myself.
Mike, I think Newcastle's 'funniest team' tag was almost coming our way this season, but fortunately things seem to be on the up.
I loved KK's interview. Quite frankly, if more people couldn't give a toss about sanctimonious broadcasters, where everyone needs to have the exact levels of behaviour The One Show find appealing, then we could do away with a lot of the bollocks that goes on in this country.
I loved KK's interview. Quite frankly, if more people couldn't give a toss about sanctimonious broadcasters, where everyone needs to have the exact levels of behaviour The One Show find appealing, then we could do away with a lot of the bollocks that goes on in this country.
It was a cultural misunderstanding.
In parts of South America it's a sign of friendship to lie to your manager and refuse a handshake.
Embarrassing your club and city is a prelude to a fiesta.
In parts of South America it's a sign of friendship to lie to your manager and refuse a handshake.
Embarrassing your club and city is a prelude to a fiesta.
George McKane
Some good comments there. You mention Neville; well, long after Neville has left Everton, probably with the abuse he is beginning to suffer now, he's getting a bit older and making a few more mistakes still ringing in his ears, I, for one, will appreciate the role he has played in helping our club rise above some of the dross in the "Premier" League by his actions on and off the pitch. If ever I have seen a consummate professional it's him.
Never complains, if he's down injured he IS injured, and I'll show my dick in Burtons window if he ever starts running around waiving imaginary red cards like that little reptile across the park. Dalglish, and others, could learn a lot about dignity from that man. I'd probably be happy to see him as our manager in time. (Light blue touch paper and retire.....)
Some good comments there. You mention Neville; well, long after Neville has left Everton, probably with the abuse he is beginning to suffer now, he's getting a bit older and making a few more mistakes still ringing in his ears, I, for one, will appreciate the role he has played in helping our club rise above some of the dross in the "Premier" League by his actions on and off the pitch. If ever I have seen a consummate professional it's him.
Never complains, if he's down injured he IS injured, and I'll show my dick in Burtons window if he ever starts running around waiving imaginary red cards like that little reptile across the park. Dalglish, and others, could learn a lot about dignity from that man. I'd probably be happy to see him as our manager in time. (Light blue touch paper and retire.....)
Ray, don't forget he saw Cashley off with a hell of a tackle on Saturday too. That alone should qualify him for the Everton Hall of Fame
Andrew, I am I alone in feeling a little warm glow at the scream Mrs Cole gave as Neville tackled him?
The comment made by Guardian journalist Daniel Taylor regarding Liverpool FC's behaviour sums up, for me, the classless, shameless, up-themselves, delusional spoilt brats...
"Outraged by everything, ashamed of nothing"
Pity we blues don't, as a rule, do banners
"Outraged by everything, ashamed of nothing"
Pity we blues don't, as a rule, do banners
Phil, "the classless, shameless, up-themselves, delusional spoilt brat".
I see you've met my ex.
I see you've met my ex.
Some things never change and Liverpool now have their clown prince, king or whatever grandiose phrase they attribute to their manager dragging the club through the mud with the handling of the Suarez affair. Liverpool have no class, they are masters of self pity and always look for a scapegoat or somebody else to blame for the catalogue of events that have tarnished the club since heysel and culminated in the thieving of tickets from their own fans in Athens.
...think I married her, meself, Ray, on the rebound
Ray#620
Not alone Ray. Sweet sweet music.
Not alone Ray. Sweet sweet music.
Everton still have their issues with this too, try visiting any away match...
Well, looks like the issue may have caught up with Suarez:
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1021343/liverpool-considering-selling-luis-suarez---report?cc=4716
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story/_/id/1021343/liverpool-considering-selling-luis-suarez---report?cc=4716
Rob, the issue here is not a few mindless morons (although that is bad enough in itself), it is with the way the whole club closed ranks and defended a guily man from day 1 and never made any attempt at any sort of an apology until they realised the damage that they were doing to thenselves.
The apology was on obvious contrived load of crap from some PR person from within the club and it seems that it has not fooled anybody.
The apology was on obvious contrived load of crap from some PR person from within the club and it seems that it has not fooled anybody.
Can't comment on the actual racism issue as I just don't know enough of the ins and outs of the problem it's caused in English football. In Australia we have very mild race issues, but even less public understanding of them.
How Liverpool, or to be fair, Suarez and Dalglish, have handled themselves during this has been despicable though. You'd expect it from Dalglish to an extent - he's had it in for the press for as long as I can remember but does himself no favours.
Suarez on the other hand... If I were new to a country, and obviously on some sort of work visa/permit (hint: I just spent two years in Canada on a work holiday), I'd be (was) pretty mindful of my host countries laws and morals, and if I found myself in trouble for something I didn't think was wrong, I'd apologise like I was about to be thrown out of Eden. Suarez treated this as a joke from the start, and has never given a genuine apology.
The videos and pictures doing the rounds of Evra being in the wrong on Sunday are a load of shit. They show him extending his hand and Evra holding back, except it's footage of when Suarez has already moved to shake de Gea's hand. Here's a tip for them, if the player and club didn't come out with this theory, it probably isn't the truth.
How Liverpool, or to be fair, Suarez and Dalglish, have handled themselves during this has been despicable though. You'd expect it from Dalglish to an extent - he's had it in for the press for as long as I can remember but does himself no favours.
Suarez on the other hand... If I were new to a country, and obviously on some sort of work visa/permit (hint: I just spent two years in Canada on a work holiday), I'd be (was) pretty mindful of my host countries laws and morals, and if I found myself in trouble for something I didn't think was wrong, I'd apologise like I was about to be thrown out of Eden. Suarez treated this as a joke from the start, and has never given a genuine apology.
The videos and pictures doing the rounds of Evra being in the wrong on Sunday are a load of shit. They show him extending his hand and Evra holding back, except it's footage of when Suarez has already moved to shake de Gea's hand. Here's a tip for them, if the player and club didn't come out with this theory, it probably isn't the truth.
When have that shower apologised or accepted responsibility for any wrong-doing?
My understanding, from Blues in the US is that the weekend's NY Times article forced the American owners of the Liverpool, England "franchise" to kick ass/bottom
Perhaps, Suarez and Queen Kenny will not walk alone, but together
My understanding, from Blues in the US is that the weekend's NY Times article forced the American owners of the Liverpool, England "franchise" to kick ass/bottom
Perhaps, Suarez and Queen Kenny will not walk alone, but together
Ray @ 618, I would have no qualms if Pip one day took the reins.
Cashley must hold painful memories about our meetings.
Johnny Hs unsettling shoulder barge at THAT shoot out.
Coming worse off after a Coleman tackle with an injury that kept him sidelined for weeks and now on the recieving end of a brutal yet fair tackle by Pip.
Cashley must hold painful memories about our meetings.
Johnny Hs unsettling shoulder barge at THAT shoot out.
Coming worse off after a Coleman tackle with an injury that kept him sidelined for weeks and now on the recieving end of a brutal yet fair tackle by Pip.
Dick, did we ever here what Johnny actually said to Cole during that shoot out?
Couple of points and no judgements. Suarez got banned for a he said she said with no witnesses. FA said we believe you we don't believe you.
The stupid hand shake ( put in for a world cup so tv affiliates could run ads without missing anything especially PC sensitive National Anthems?? ) has also recently been suspended... so why not then
Cock up from all concerned on and off the field.
The stupid hand shake ( put in for a world cup so tv affiliates could run ads without missing anything especially PC sensitive National Anthems?? ) has also recently been suspended... so why not then
Cock up from all concerned on and off the field.
Derek I'm fairly sure that Suarez admitted to several of the accusations but feigned ignorance. So it's not quite a case of believing one over the other without witness evidence.
I mentioned this before but still there's been very little furore about the fact that Evra admitted to starting the argument by insulting Suarez's sister. This is where this all falls down. Both players were abused in one way or other but because racism is in the public eye only Suarez gets punished. Evra should have been hit with a fine and ban so it's clear that such abuse won't be tolerated. Cue the "he's a big boy, he'll be alright" comments. Abuse is abuse.
The Red passionate half of my home based rellies are dismayed at their clubs very poor handling of the affair yet they reckon the slimy (my words) is the only one of Daglish's signings worth the money he paid.
Shane, I agree, except that insulting another's sister is not illegal, whereas racism is. Speaking of which, I know it's been covered, but I just don't know; why is Terry being dealt with legally, whereas Suarez was dealt with internally?
Granada Reports last night was hilarious. The president of the Fans Group blamed Eva for starting all the uproad by unlawfully grabbing Suarez's wrist and then the first man interviewed was a Sweedish fella.....sums them up to a T
Chris Butler:
stop regurgitating the media indignation at Suarez's behaviour and look at the facts:
Suarez is from a country where using race as a descriptive is not seen as racist in itself.
Evra changed his story after being pushed for the facts by the FA hearing.
Evra did not take this matter to the police, so the event did not the face the scrutiny of a genuine court of arbitration. If he is so sure that Suarez is genuinely racist why not?
Evra racially abused Suarez in return during their spat.
Evra lowered his hand as Suarez approached for the "handshake that never was".
Evra repsonded like a demented fool to both the lack of handshake and the full-time whistle, and he tried to pole-axe Suarez during the game.
Suarez strikes me as untrustworthy and he likes to push boundaries, but this in no way justifies the racism tag. People say spiteful things on the football pitch all of the time and he was most likely simply ignorrant of British customs, and unaware of what is deemed acceptable.
You even go as far as to say that racism is rife at LFC! Grow up. This is a serious issue and could affect the image of the city as a whole.
stop regurgitating the media indignation at Suarez's behaviour and look at the facts:
Suarez is from a country where using race as a descriptive is not seen as racist in itself.
Evra changed his story after being pushed for the facts by the FA hearing.
Evra did not take this matter to the police, so the event did not the face the scrutiny of a genuine court of arbitration. If he is so sure that Suarez is genuinely racist why not?
Evra racially abused Suarez in return during their spat.
Evra lowered his hand as Suarez approached for the "handshake that never was".
Evra repsonded like a demented fool to both the lack of handshake and the full-time whistle, and he tried to pole-axe Suarez during the game.
Suarez strikes me as untrustworthy and he likes to push boundaries, but this in no way justifies the racism tag. People say spiteful things on the football pitch all of the time and he was most likely simply ignorrant of British customs, and unaware of what is deemed acceptable.
You even go as far as to say that racism is rife at LFC! Grow up. This is a serious issue and could affect the image of the city as a whole.
Roman the reason Terry's case is being handled by the law courts is because a complaint was made to the police forcing them to take action, although I am sure that the complaint was made by somebody watching rather than somebody at QPR.
In the case of Suarez, nobody made such a complaint so hence the internal action only. I guess the FA will take steps against Terry shuold the courts find him guilty, their hands are tied by law until then.
In the case of Suarez, nobody made such a complaint so hence the internal action only. I guess the FA will take steps against Terry shuold the courts find him guilty, their hands are tied by law until then.
Anthony
Could we have the facts as Rafa-style bullet points, please
Are you after Ian Ayre's job?
Agree the lines are definitely blurred...
"Everton fan banned for calling a Frenchman French"
Ian Rush is a big-nosed, ugly, kopite, turncoat Welsh twat
Ta soeur elle pisse bleu
See what I mean?
Could we have the facts as Rafa-style bullet points, please
Are you after Ian Ayre's job?
Agree the lines are definitely blurred...
"Everton fan banned for calling a Frenchman French"
Ian Rush is a big-nosed, ugly, kopite, turncoat Welsh twat
Ta soeur elle pisse bleu
See what I mean?
Anthony Jones, can you stop putting 'facts' in the way of a good mob lynching!
Cheers, Andrew.
"Evra lowered his hand as Suarez approached for the "handshake that never was" - Bullshit, he was just hesitant but it was on the way up, not down.
Eva is a cock and deserves to be punished for his over the top celebration at teh end, but this could have been ended if the dozy twat had just shaken his hand,
Next thing you will start doing a Poyet and offering a character reference.
Eva is a cock and deserves to be punished for his over the top celebration at teh end, but this could have been ended if the dozy twat had just shaken his hand,
Next thing you will start doing a Poyet and offering a character reference.
"Suarez is from a country where using race as a descriptive is not seen as racist in itself."
Are you suggesting the concept of Racism is completely alien to him? I doubt calling him Blackie, Blackie , Blackie over and over was in case Evra needed a description of himself.
Straight from the pages of RAWK that one.
Along with my personal favourite.
"You can't called a spade a spade these days"
Are you suggesting the concept of Racism is completely alien to him? I doubt calling him Blackie, Blackie , Blackie over and over was in case Evra needed a description of himself.
Straight from the pages of RAWK that one.
Along with my personal favourite.
"You can't called a spade a spade these days"
Anthony Jones.
"This is a serious issue and could affect the image of the city as a whole."
Correct, Anthony, which it is why it's probably better that you and the other re-writers of history keep your mouths shut instead of offering innacurate descriptions of what happened. The FA Commision also accepted that Evras evidence was accurate and consistent which is why his version was believed and Suarez, who changed his story, wasn't.
Suarez is a despicable little shit. That's accuracy for you, not your "Evra lowered his hand " garbage. .
"This is a serious issue and could affect the image of the city as a whole."
Correct, Anthony, which it is why it's probably better that you and the other re-writers of history keep your mouths shut instead of offering innacurate descriptions of what happened. The FA Commision also accepted that Evras evidence was accurate and consistent which is why his version was believed and Suarez, who changed his story, wasn't.
Suarez is a despicable little shit. That's accuracy for you, not your "Evra lowered his hand " garbage. .
inaccurate, not innacurate.
Back in the 90's a lady I knew who got me away tickets for the premiership club she worked for informed me that EFC had been discussed at a high level because of racism & some aggression. We were deemed the worst at the time. I think things have been cleared up alot. However I'm not jumping on this band wagon ... "People in glass houses" and all that!
Phil Bellis #622.. shame we dont do banners.. well I saw one at the goodison derby this season that just said ' were not bitter..we just dont like you..' Perfect..
I think we should all just stay quiet on this one, as the RS are doing a good enough job of making themselves look a disgrace.
I think we should all just stay quiet on this one, as the RS are doing a good enough job of making themselves look a disgrace.
Okay,
maybe some of my Rafa bullet points were dubious, but can you blame me for trying to see the case for the defense when so many have already tried and executed Suarez? When there are no witnesses how can you make such strong assertions about any situation?
I'm not trying to gloss over the issue, just provide some balance.
maybe some of my Rafa bullet points were dubious, but can you blame me for trying to see the case for the defense when so many have already tried and executed Suarez? When there are no witnesses how can you make such strong assertions about any situation?
I'm not trying to gloss over the issue, just provide some balance.
I think a lot of clubs have racist ignorant fans. The difference is their managers don't condone it and stick up for that racist element.
The fella who wrote for the Guardian got it right for me. Suarez is just a complete thicko and his brains are in his feet. He needs to be pulled aside and given a telling off. It is Dalglish's and the club's defence of him that is most appalling. Their actions have created this unnecessary firestorm.
The fella who wrote for the Guardian got it right for me. Suarez is just a complete thicko and his brains are in his feet. He needs to be pulled aside and given a telling off. It is Dalglish's and the club's defence of him that is most appalling. Their actions have created this unnecessary firestorm.
As much as it pleasures me to sit back in my armchair and watch those unspeakable reds squeal and squirm and wallow in a cess pit of their own manufacture, I would enjoy it while we can because somehow the gods always seem to transpire to ensure that they come up smelling of roses. Just wait and see....
In a couple of weeks, Evra will be overheard talking in a Manchester nightclub saying he deliberately made up the racist accusations against Suarez, this will be captured on somebody’s iPhone and sold to the tabloids. The FA will then give Liverpool a massive apology laced with the addition of 8 Premier League points for the wrongful suspension of Suarez. This will then lift them into Champions League qualification and a knighthood for King Kenny!
Bitter? Damned right I am.
In a couple of weeks, Evra will be overheard talking in a Manchester nightclub saying he deliberately made up the racist accusations against Suarez, this will be captured on somebody’s iPhone and sold to the tabloids. The FA will then give Liverpool a massive apology laced with the addition of 8 Premier League points for the wrongful suspension of Suarez. This will then lift them into Champions League qualification and a knighthood for King Kenny!
Bitter? Damned right I am.
Shaun, I think Liverpool have gone into battle with Man Utd here and whatever Liverpool have got away with in the past, nobody is ever going to get one over Sir Alex in a situation like this.
Slightly o/t, but in line with some of the postings above: I must confess I was really impressed with Phil Neville on MOTD2 last night. He is articulate and seemed a really good bloke. Irrespective of his arguable shortcomings as a player, he is a fine ambassador for our club.
I agree,Brian, see my post at 618.
Anthony Jones.... oh dear mate if you believe all that then you are either on the wrong forum or or the wrong forum.. both players need to grow up, Evra because he thinks he is better than everyone else and Suarez because he is a diving, biting, injury feigning, card waving. cheat with racist overtones hiding behind his idiot manager whos one line to every reporter seems to be "did you play the game?"
Agree with Wayne #660. We are from the same city as Liverpool, therefore our fans will have been subject to the same environmental and social conditions as Liverpool supporters. I can recall may times when I have been embarrassed by racist actions and chants from our own fans at away matches, so as far as I'm concerned, just let Liverpool stew without any intervention from us and please let's not adopt this hypocritical "Holier than Thou" attitude.
What did Neville say, if you don't mind, guys? I don't get MotD2 where I live, so often miss out on the ancillary stuff.
And considering how Phil Neville has crept into this thread, isn't it strange how he becomes the "Manc ba$tard" when he's playing badly. Not racist, I know, but just as bigoted.
His form these days is poor but he's undoubtedly a top bloke and great ambassador for the club.
His form these days is poor but he's undoubtedly a top bloke and great ambassador for the club.
Evra's hand is quite low as Suarez approaches because Suarez is in the act of shaking the tiny matchday mascot's hand about a foot or so below an adult handshake. Evra is quite clearly ready for the handshake.
Why are some people on this thread unclear about Suarez' role in this saga? He admitted using a racist term in the original incident, changing his story during the investigation and refusing to answer clear and important questions from the FA QC, and now he has apologised for refusing to shake Evra's hand.
Why are some people on this thread unclear about Suarez' role in this saga? He admitted using a racist term in the original incident, changing his story during the investigation and refusing to answer clear and important questions from the FA QC, and now he has apologised for refusing to shake Evra's hand.
Nick, I must disagree.
If you watch the video of the handshake procession you will clearly see Evra's hand withdraw as Suarez approaches.
Anyway, it's a moot point. Whether he shook Evra's hand is irrelevant. As John Barnes said, you don't have to respect your opponents, but you do have to respect the rules.
The day could easily come when an ignorant Everton player ends up in an FA hearing under similar circumstances. I hope you will respond with the same level of outrage as you have to behaviour of this Liverpool player.
If you watch the video of the handshake procession you will clearly see Evra's hand withdraw as Suarez approaches.
Anyway, it's a moot point. Whether he shook Evra's hand is irrelevant. As John Barnes said, you don't have to respect your opponents, but you do have to respect the rules.
The day could easily come when an ignorant Everton player ends up in an FA hearing under similar circumstances. I hope you will respond with the same level of outrage as you have to behaviour of this Liverpool player.
Brian (668)- agree completely. Didn't see him on MOTD last night, but did hear a radio interview a while back, when he was talking about his daughter who has cerebral palsy. Came across as a thoroughly decent guy
Anthony...Let me ask you a question
Did Suarez not play in Holland for several years? is racism rife in Dutch football too? And with regards to your racism and Everton comment, I find it unbelievable. Racism is racism, whether an Everton, Manchester United or Tranmere player is responsible for it. If a reserve player had acted like Suarez, he would have got the boot. Suarez was defended, because Liverpool put the results before the greater good
I cannot believe the excuses put forward by Liverpool, and which appear in part, on this board. Suarez racially abused Evra, this is not in doubt. You can try and negate the effect of that by comparing racial abuse to other types of abuse, but that is to dismiss the dangers of prejudice which for so long have effected society, which is plain wrong.
By wearing shirts in support of Suarez, by excusing his actions, Liverpool have excused racism. Suarez has been found guilty by an independent panel. They have wrongly managed the whole affair, which is unforgivable given their position of influence to so many. Worse than that, one of the first major and high profile attempts to punish racism by the FA has been met by disdain.
Liverpool have finally apologised, but it should never gone so far. Suarez did not shake his hand, do not try and blame Evra. Suarez kicked the ball into the ground at half-time, was that Evra’s fault too? Liverpool and the player have apologised because they must, most likely because of the media fervour and the sponsor's reactions. The whole affair however is a disgrace to their football club.
Did Suarez not play in Holland for several years? is racism rife in Dutch football too? And with regards to your racism and Everton comment, I find it unbelievable. Racism is racism, whether an Everton, Manchester United or Tranmere player is responsible for it. If a reserve player had acted like Suarez, he would have got the boot. Suarez was defended, because Liverpool put the results before the greater good
I cannot believe the excuses put forward by Liverpool, and which appear in part, on this board. Suarez racially abused Evra, this is not in doubt. You can try and negate the effect of that by comparing racial abuse to other types of abuse, but that is to dismiss the dangers of prejudice which for so long have effected society, which is plain wrong.
By wearing shirts in support of Suarez, by excusing his actions, Liverpool have excused racism. Suarez has been found guilty by an independent panel. They have wrongly managed the whole affair, which is unforgivable given their position of influence to so many. Worse than that, one of the first major and high profile attempts to punish racism by the FA has been met by disdain.
Liverpool have finally apologised, but it should never gone so far. Suarez did not shake his hand, do not try and blame Evra. Suarez kicked the ball into the ground at half-time, was that Evra’s fault too? Liverpool and the player have apologised because they must, most likely because of the media fervour and the sponsor's reactions. The whole affair however is a disgrace to their football club.
One good thing has come of this - I was in an alehouse in Newcastle watching the game Saturday morning and 99% of the neutrals cheered when Rooney scored and when the final whistle went - the way they've handled this Suarez fiasco has certainly damaged their image.
Not before time - I'm still waiting for Liverpool FC's official apology to Everton for costing the best team we've produced since 'Ball - Harvey - Kendal' a shot at the European Cup.
The silence was deafening from Anfield over that one.
Not before time - I'm still waiting for Liverpool FC's official apology to Everton for costing the best team we've produced since 'Ball - Harvey - Kendal' a shot at the European Cup.
The silence was deafening from Anfield over that one.
Jim,
if Suarez genuinely acted in the manner that has been portrayed to us, I agree that he deserved to be punished. He served his punishment.
As I said earlier though, there were no independent wintesses, which makes any case against Suarez impossible to prove.
Evra's behaviour before, during, and after the match appeared more hateful than the avoidance of a handshake ever could. Yet anybody that questions his motives is making excuses or, dare I say it, is a racist.
PS. My comment about Everton is making the point that some fans would change their tune if it were their player being labelled as a monster; myself excluded of course. What is it you find unbelievable about this comment? Perhaps you revel in faux outrage like your friends in the national press.
if Suarez genuinely acted in the manner that has been portrayed to us, I agree that he deserved to be punished. He served his punishment.
As I said earlier though, there were no independent wintesses, which makes any case against Suarez impossible to prove.
Evra's behaviour before, during, and after the match appeared more hateful than the avoidance of a handshake ever could. Yet anybody that questions his motives is making excuses or, dare I say it, is a racist.
PS. My comment about Everton is making the point that some fans would change their tune if it were their player being labelled as a monster; myself excluded of course. What is it you find unbelievable about this comment? Perhaps you revel in faux outrage like your friends in the national press.
Anthony
Rodwell tackle...scream...shot in the leg by the Upper Bullen's sniper
The man's a fraud - deserves all he gets, a made-to-measure Liverpool player
Mark Riding 661
I heard about that banner...was it in the Upper Gwladys, behind me?
Don't know how they smuggled it in - the stewards seem to be extra keen on checking these days, obviously Bill is worried about "provocative, visual" protests
Rodwell tackle...scream...shot in the leg by the Upper Bullen's sniper
The man's a fraud - deserves all he gets, a made-to-measure Liverpool player
Mark Riding 661
I heard about that banner...was it in the Upper Gwladys, behind me?
Don't know how they smuggled it in - the stewards seem to be extra keen on checking these days, obviously Bill is worried about "provocative, visual" protests
What seems to get airbrushed regarding John Barnes' treatment.
That it wasn't only Everton fans who racially abused him. There was a very large element of liverpool fc's match going fans that didn't want him. Letters' were sent to the then Liverpool FC Chairman, from Liverpool fans stating they didn't want him simply because he was black.
That it wasn't only Everton fans who racially abused him. There was a very large element of liverpool fc's match going fans that didn't want him. Letters' were sent to the then Liverpool FC Chairman, from Liverpool fans stating they didn't want him simply because he was black.
Arsenal brought back Henry..
United brought back Scholes..
Liverpool brought back racism..
United brought back Scholes..
Liverpool brought back racism..
Fuck me some of our contributors on here are as blinkered as the beauts venting on the Sun's comments section online (so much for the moral high ground of not having anything to do with it post Hillsborough).
Suarez was found guilty on balance of probability, not beyond reasonable doubt. This is acceptable for the FA, but would be insufficient in a court of Law. The report stated that the panel did not think he was a racist, but was guilty of using racist language.
The whole reaction from LFC and Dalglish was hugely embarrassing, and I loved every bit of it. Ex-RS players dominate in the comfort zone of media / punditry, and to hear some of them trying to justify LFCs actions was hysterical. It's no surprise that Suarez behaved like that on Saturday - he felt he had total support from all at the club.
What surprised me was the lack of obvious response from the higher echelons of the club. With a sponsor like Stan Chart with its huge Asian and Middle East operation, it was inevitable that they would have strong views given they're dropping £20m on them per annum.
Also these days clubs have media officers within earshot every time someone gives an interview. Whoever Liverpool had there should've warned Dalglish about the handshake incident but didn't - leaving Queen Kenny to make a complete prick of himself on GLOBAL TV. Priceless.
So enjoy them shredding their reputation, but don't for one minute think we don't have fans or officials capable of being just as idiotic.
Suarez was found guilty on balance of probability, not beyond reasonable doubt. This is acceptable for the FA, but would be insufficient in a court of Law. The report stated that the panel did not think he was a racist, but was guilty of using racist language.
The whole reaction from LFC and Dalglish was hugely embarrassing, and I loved every bit of it. Ex-RS players dominate in the comfort zone of media / punditry, and to hear some of them trying to justify LFCs actions was hysterical. It's no surprise that Suarez behaved like that on Saturday - he felt he had total support from all at the club.
What surprised me was the lack of obvious response from the higher echelons of the club. With a sponsor like Stan Chart with its huge Asian and Middle East operation, it was inevitable that they would have strong views given they're dropping £20m on them per annum.
Also these days clubs have media officers within earshot every time someone gives an interview. Whoever Liverpool had there should've warned Dalglish about the handshake incident but didn't - leaving Queen Kenny to make a complete prick of himself on GLOBAL TV. Priceless.
So enjoy them shredding their reputation, but don't for one minute think we don't have fans or officials capable of being just as idiotic.
There is nothing false about my outrage Anthony, I find racism in all forms abhorrent and cannot understand the ignorance of a view which judges based on race. It is disconcerting and rather alarming that you assume ‘faux’ racism.
Suarez was not convicted on just one on one testimony; you are naive to think so. Video footage, changing testimony and other evidence was all taken into account. Part of that was testimony from Comolli, who is fluent in Spanish. Comolli declared that Suarez had told him in Spanish in the dressing room after the match, that he replied to Evra’s question about his reasons for kicking him with ‘because you are black’.
Suarez has lived in Holland, he is aware of western etiquette. Last time I checked, I didn’t hear of Forlan and Cavani getting involved in these types of incidents.
Racism happens in football, as in all walks of life. But the most concerning aspect was Liverpool’s continued support of Suarez, both before and after a regulatory commission had made its verdict and the manner of that support. Liverpool could have acted with dignity, even if they disagreed with the verdict. They could have quietly appealed, but did not. In choosing to wear t-shirts of support, irrespective of their belief in Suarez’s actions, they implicitly valorised his actions. Liverpool in this whole of affair have acted terribly. If an Everton player was accused in this way, I would be ashamed if our team or our player, carried on in this way.
Suarez was not convicted on just one on one testimony; you are naive to think so. Video footage, changing testimony and other evidence was all taken into account. Part of that was testimony from Comolli, who is fluent in Spanish. Comolli declared that Suarez had told him in Spanish in the dressing room after the match, that he replied to Evra’s question about his reasons for kicking him with ‘because you are black’.
Suarez has lived in Holland, he is aware of western etiquette. Last time I checked, I didn’t hear of Forlan and Cavani getting involved in these types of incidents.
Racism happens in football, as in all walks of life. But the most concerning aspect was Liverpool’s continued support of Suarez, both before and after a regulatory commission had made its verdict and the manner of that support. Liverpool could have acted with dignity, even if they disagreed with the verdict. They could have quietly appealed, but did not. In choosing to wear t-shirts of support, irrespective of their belief in Suarez’s actions, they implicitly valorised his actions. Liverpool in this whole of affair have acted terribly. If an Everton player was accused in this way, I would be ashamed if our team or our player, carried on in this way.
Anthony,
At most it seemed Evra was hesitant to shake his hand. But it take two to shake hands, and Suarez just moved on.
And every player shakes hands different. Some will be more outstretched than others, some keep their hand closer in, some go for a hand clasp etc etc.
I will concede that potentially Suarez wasn't sure if Evra was offering or not and moved on as its a difficult moment. But Evra did not refuse the hand shake.
Either way, bollocks to these hand shakes... load of nonsense. Lets get back to football. Blackpool next up! Erm, I mean Whitepool, no wait, oh shit, I'm a racist... fuck.
At most it seemed Evra was hesitant to shake his hand. But it take two to shake hands, and Suarez just moved on.
And every player shakes hands different. Some will be more outstretched than others, some keep their hand closer in, some go for a hand clasp etc etc.
I will concede that potentially Suarez wasn't sure if Evra was offering or not and moved on as its a difficult moment. But Evra did not refuse the hand shake.
Either way, bollocks to these hand shakes... load of nonsense. Lets get back to football. Blackpool next up! Erm, I mean Whitepool, no wait, oh shit, I'm a racist... fuck.
Suarez wasnt 'convicted' chaps.. he admitted it !!
Anthony Jones, you seem have missed the point. He wasn't describing somebody's race — he was abusing him in a racial manner. They were not speaking in a freindly manner so therfore you would assume he was using the words to offend Evra. Suarez admitted he called Evra "little black man" (negrito) which is partronising and condescending not to mention offensive.
I'm well aware of cultural descriptions meaning different things, for example, in the ex-Yugoslavia calling people gypsies is quite common, regardless of their actual cultural heritage. Polish people call each other Pasy (Jews) to mock each other regardless of their actual ethnic hertiage.
Suarez played for Ajax whose fans are known for being aniti racist and their rivalry with clubs like Feyenoord whose fans reguarly sing racist and anti-semetic taunts to abuse Ajax fans. Even in the ex-Yugoslavia, fans have stopped singing anti-Islamic and racist chants, so there's no reason why an international footballer should not know using racial slurs is offensive.
If a child called a fellow student a little black man, he or she would be expelled from school. If you used racial slurs in work, you would be sacked and you could face criminal proscuted by the courts. In amateur football, players have been banned from leagues for using racist language... Why is Suarez any different?
Only recently a coach of a children's football team in Liverpool was banned from managing any other children's football teams for racially abusing somebody during a game.
I'm well aware of cultural descriptions meaning different things, for example, in the ex-Yugoslavia calling people gypsies is quite common, regardless of their actual cultural heritage. Polish people call each other Pasy (Jews) to mock each other regardless of their actual ethnic hertiage.
Suarez played for Ajax whose fans are known for being aniti racist and their rivalry with clubs like Feyenoord whose fans reguarly sing racist and anti-semetic taunts to abuse Ajax fans. Even in the ex-Yugoslavia, fans have stopped singing anti-Islamic and racist chants, so there's no reason why an international footballer should not know using racial slurs is offensive.
If a child called a fellow student a little black man, he or she would be expelled from school. If you used racial slurs in work, you would be sacked and you could face criminal proscuted by the courts. In amateur football, players have been banned from leagues for using racist language... Why is Suarez any different?
Only recently a coach of a children's football team in Liverpool was banned from managing any other children's football teams for racially abusing somebody during a game.
Its very straight forward, look at the FA statement on the original charge, Suarez admitted his guilt, at that point he was guilty as charged and that should have been the end of it with the RS failing to do the right thing which would have been to make a club apology along the lines of cultural differences and that the matter would be dealt with as an internal club matter from that point on, instead they went on the offensive which is probably a fitting word denial job with bollocks like victimisation etc etc.
You've even got their supporters arguing the toss on the web about how he is innocent ignorant of the facts but they have form for that trick with Heysel and you even have proper knob ends posting on youtube the most laughable shite you've ever seen - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2OMwX1kBss
Delusional but we've seen this for decades
You've even got their supporters arguing the toss on the web about how he is innocent ignorant of the facts but they have form for that trick with Heysel and you even have proper knob ends posting on youtube the most laughable shite you've ever seen - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2OMwX1kBss
Delusional but we've seen this for decades
Gavin, I just cannot bring myself to watch the clip.. my anti-liverpool tourettes would go off the scale !!
Its hard work Mark a mixture of laughing and grinding your teeth
Just heard that a ambulance had to be called to Analfield today when a delivery driver done his back in carrying trays of Humble pies, into the stadium.
74 posts til now on racism and not one has managed to point out the irony of the fourth poster from the top feeling the need to describe Dalglish as a "mumbling Jock Manager".
Or is racism bad but bigotry or anti-Scottish sentiment okay?
Or is racism bad but bigotry or anti-Scottish sentiment okay?
Anthony, Do not try to stand up for a supposed racist. Not in this country with it's holier than thou leftist biggotry.
Oh and what a lazy French Bastard Saha looked on saurday Eh?
Oh and what a lazy French Bastard Saha looked on saurday Eh?
Help a Yank out, is it illegal to make racist remarks to another player?
By illegal, I mean outside the FA. Does it break a national law?
Good point Noel!
Let's get one thing right. Since this whole debacle, Suarez has now made two apologies. But not once has a apology been directed at Evra.
Nate (761). Yes it is. That's why John Terry is facing a trial in July.
Whether he is found innocent or guilty, after that trial is completed he is likely to face an FA charge.
Whether he is found innocent or guilty, after that trial is completed he is likely to face an FA charge.
Anthony Jones, sometimes to swim against the tide and to offer a case for the defence is admirable and brave. Other times it is foolhardy. Suarez is scum, racist scum and to offer a defence of his racism and his "handshake" is utterly bereft of any moral justification.
Evra may not be a specially worthy victim, but victim he was and to equate his glee at the end of the game with the behaviour of Suarez is ludicrous.I gave my views on another thread about Dalglish but I would like to repeat them here. An inarticulate boorish bully without any sense of what is decent and without an ounce of integrity.
I've criticised David Moyes for being soft("Nolan;s not that type of lad" etc. But,you know what, I'll take that any time over King Kenny and all that he and his club now stand for.I have many issues about Moyes but I have in the passed questioned his integrity. tI was a remark I later withdrew,frankly after listening to the loathsome Dalglish I feel even more embarrassed about it.
Evra may not be a specially worthy victim, but victim he was and to equate his glee at the end of the game with the behaviour of Suarez is ludicrous.I gave my views on another thread about Dalglish but I would like to repeat them here. An inarticulate boorish bully without any sense of what is decent and without an ounce of integrity.
I've criticised David Moyes for being soft("Nolan;s not that type of lad" etc. But,you know what, I'll take that any time over King Kenny and all that he and his club now stand for.I have many issues about Moyes but I have in the passed questioned his integrity. tI was a remark I later withdrew,frankly after listening to the loathsome Dalglish I feel even more embarrassed about it.
How does that work then Matt ?
Does Evra have to make a formal complaint to the police or is the Terry case in some way seen as different ?
Does Evra have to make a formal complaint to the police or is the Terry case in some way seen as different ?
Shaun 691, the first fans to throw bananas at John Barnes were Liverpool fans. As you say conveniently airbrushed and avoided whenever the old "Everton fans threw Bananas etc" example is trotted out.
It's long over due that this was put right but I'm not holding my breath.
It's long over due that this was put right but I'm not holding my breath.
I think that it is quite obvious that J Henry as told Dagleish,Suarez and Ayre to make these apologies. 2 days ago Dagleish said he still thought that Suarez shouldnt have been punished. The continued support that Suarez received must have led him to also believe that his manager and ceo was right behind him.
I would imagine that come the summer all 3 will be looking for a new job.
I would imagine that come the summer all 3 will be looking for a new job.
Shaun 691, the first fans to throw bananas at John Barnes were Liverpool fans. As you say conveniently airbrushed and avoided whenever the old "Everton fans threw Bananas etc" example is trotted out.
It's long over due that this was put right but I'm not holding my breath.
It's long over due that this was put right but I'm not holding my breath.
Shaun 691, the first fans to throw bananas at John Barnes were Liverpool fans. As you say conveniently airbrushed and avoided whenever the old "Everton fans threw Bananas etc" example is trotted out.
It's long over due that this was put right but I'm not holding my breath.
It's long over due that this was put right but I'm not holding my breath.
I Blame Moyes for the whole Suarez/Evra thing. Only because Osman is out injured and Hibbert isn't in the starting 11. Then again if Kenwright (sorry Kenwrong) hadnt hidden the £22million a year he is siphoning out of the club under "other operating costs" it probably wouldn't have happened either.
Haha, nice one Chris!
It was Chelsea fans...
Gavin, that YouTube clip has been made Private. What was in it?
BREAKING NEWS+++ Liverpool FC are not, repeat NOT racist+++ FACT - Regardless of the issue, LFC are never wrong +++ They did not defend racism, they just supported their player+++Heysel was not their fault, it was someone else +++ Suarez was not at fault, it was Evra +++ Nobody threw a mobile phone at Wayne Rooney at Anfield (2004?), he got in the way+++ Alan Smith's ambulance was not stoned by LFC fans outside Anfield - it was someone else +++ Scummy behaviour in Athens 2006 (?) was not LFC fans, it was a misprint +++Worst fans in Europe says UEFA official (now sacked)+++ Murder chants against their own US owners (what? not us the wonderful kopites) +++ Stevie G filmed smacking some bloke in a nightclub (not guilty, despite the film) +++ Breaching the passport control en mass at Liverpool Airport 2005 (must have been tourists, not us) +++ John Barnes anti-racism soundbites against John Terry et al (but not LFC or Suarez, not their fault John? No hypocricy there, John?) +++ John Barnes on R5l last night (paraphrasing) "I've had no job offers because I'm black" - no John, it's because you're a crap manager +++
Let's move on to another discussion: why are Evertonians so bitter?
I just don't understand it at all.
Let's move on to another discussion: why are Evertonians so bitter?
I just don't understand it at all.
Jim Knightley has decided that the word "outrage" is equivalent to word "racism".
Quite the master of reason. I knew posting on this thread would lead to at least one clown implying that I hold racist views and I haven't been let down. Thanks Jim.
On Evra's behaviour:
he deliberately tried to enflame the situation and clearly carried a vendetta during the match. The guy tried to pole-axe Suarez early in the game after grabbing hold of Suarez before kick off. He (according to The Observer) tried to confront Suarez about the lack of handshake, at half time, and then he gloated and incited the crowd whilst prancing about in front of Suarez at the end of the game.
Suarez served an 8 game ban. He has been punished and I am sure he has learned from this. He decided not to shake the hand of a fellow player who he had previous with in this particular game. Get over it you daft racist ;).
Quite the master of reason. I knew posting on this thread would lead to at least one clown implying that I hold racist views and I haven't been let down. Thanks Jim.
On Evra's behaviour:
he deliberately tried to enflame the situation and clearly carried a vendetta during the match. The guy tried to pole-axe Suarez early in the game after grabbing hold of Suarez before kick off. He (according to The Observer) tried to confront Suarez about the lack of handshake, at half time, and then he gloated and incited the crowd whilst prancing about in front of Suarez at the end of the game.
Suarez served an 8 game ban. He has been punished and I am sure he has learned from this. He decided not to shake the hand of a fellow player who he had previous with in this particular game. Get over it you daft racist ;).
Barnes isnt crap Mike, surely he deserves a crack at the shite job when KK eventually and predictably starts wearing underpants on his head and sticks pencils up his nose, does he not?
This whole debacle is symptomatic of what ails this once great game of ours.
This short term, money driven imperative, certainly since the onset of the Premier League, has manifest itself in a number of ways recently.
This incident, and the so called apologies, no doubt forced on both Suarez and Dalglish by concerned owners and sponsors in order to protect their investment.
The apparenet U turn by Mancini in accepting Tevez back into the fold to help them in the "run in to the title".
The John Terry /Capello fiasco etc. etc. etc.
All of it hypocritical and sickening. Quite frankly it has left me for one wondering why the hell should I bother!
The game should come first and measures will have to be taken to stamp out this despicable behaviour. It is every fan's interest as there will be no Everton, or any other club for that matter, if the game itself fails.
I sincerely hope Everton never spirals down to these depths. I commented earlier in response to a poster highlighting the sportsmanlike behaviour of our players during the Chelsea game in not trying to get players sent off. An attitude that I believe is engrained in this great club.
Let's hope integrity continues and gets the appropriate attention.. no matter how we perform at any given time, and hope other clubs and players come to realise the game is more important than them.
This short term, money driven imperative, certainly since the onset of the Premier League, has manifest itself in a number of ways recently.
This incident, and the so called apologies, no doubt forced on both Suarez and Dalglish by concerned owners and sponsors in order to protect their investment.
The apparenet U turn by Mancini in accepting Tevez back into the fold to help them in the "run in to the title".
The John Terry /Capello fiasco etc. etc. etc.
All of it hypocritical and sickening. Quite frankly it has left me for one wondering why the hell should I bother!
The game should come first and measures will have to be taken to stamp out this despicable behaviour. It is every fan's interest as there will be no Everton, or any other club for that matter, if the game itself fails.
I sincerely hope Everton never spirals down to these depths. I commented earlier in response to a poster highlighting the sportsmanlike behaviour of our players during the Chelsea game in not trying to get players sent off. An attitude that I believe is engrained in this great club.
Let's hope integrity continues and gets the appropriate attention.. no matter how we perform at any given time, and hope other clubs and players come to realise the game is more important than them.
Kevin, Andy and Gavin, I do not know you and do not need to. But I guess you are a similar age to me, and your responses would be words that I would use.
Many of us have long memories and our neighbours have a list of events at thier door that I am proud that we do not.
I love my Everton, it may be flawed but nevertheless....
Many of us have long memories and our neighbours have a list of events at thier door that I am proud that we do not.
I love my Everton, it may be flawed but nevertheless....
"Suarez served an 8 game ban. He has been punished and I am sure he has learned from this."
He obviously hasn't.
He obviously hasn't.
In my (Manchester) local on Saturday night - the 'handshake' clip was shown on the TV above the bar (no sound) and two 'neutrals', student type lads from darn sarf saw it.
"What a dick-head" said one to the other, and he didn't mean Evra. Correct, I thought.
On reflection, I'm so glad he didn't accept Evra's hand, leaving his manager in the shit and forcing the club to go over his head. Had Suarez done the right - and proper - thing this would all have been over and the RS version would always have been 'we didn't agree with it, but were big enough to take it'.
No they weren't, and their climbdown is a humiliation.
Don't know the guy, but Suarez as a player always gives me the impression of being a nasty bastard - no insult to his mother intended. He won't be altered by these events, although his behaviour may be modified in public. And his boss will be stinging from having been told that although he might be King K, he is not the lord and master of the club that pays his wages. That'll do me for the moment.
"What a dick-head" said one to the other, and he didn't mean Evra. Correct, I thought.
On reflection, I'm so glad he didn't accept Evra's hand, leaving his manager in the shit and forcing the club to go over his head. Had Suarez done the right - and proper - thing this would all have been over and the RS version would always have been 'we didn't agree with it, but were big enough to take it'.
No they weren't, and their climbdown is a humiliation.
Don't know the guy, but Suarez as a player always gives me the impression of being a nasty bastard - no insult to his mother intended. He won't be altered by these events, although his behaviour may be modified in public. And his boss will be stinging from having been told that although he might be King K, he is not the lord and master of the club that pays his wages. That'll do me for the moment.
Noel Lynam # 731- So are you denying that Dogleash mumbles or that he is Scottish . As far as I am aware calling someone "Jock" is not racism or bigotry merely a very common term even amongst the Jock's themselves ( you should try living there and see how they treat and what they call the English if you want to see real bigotry) and 'mumbling' is a very fair description of how Dogleash speaks , you could add incoherent to that too.
Liverpool have a long history of HYPOCRISY just look at the way they ignore what THEIR supporters did at Heysel while at the same time continuing to DEMAND sympathy for Hillsborough at which their supporters were not just the lily white victims but also played their own part in the disaster by rushing the gates to get in.
Its a Kop-out by LFC, but as we all know in these matters it's strictly not as black and white as it may seem. There is unfortunately the old banana skin waiting if you don't respect the colour of someone's skin no matter how much of an arsehole they may be, you can't abuse them verbally, nothing wrong with throwing a few sticks at them then?
Evra time I looked at that handshake incident I thought what a wanker not shaking his hand... then the antics of the other bloke got me thinking he is a bigger wanker. At least he had the guts to stick to his principles even if he is a cheating diving dirty scumbag.
Evra time I looked at that handshake incident I thought what a wanker not shaking his hand... then the antics of the other bloke got me thinking he is a bigger wanker. At least he had the guts to stick to his principles even if he is a cheating diving dirty scumbag.
Peter @ 844,
It's about the context in which it is used and the connotations associated with it. A bit like how calling Moyes a "dithering dour Jock cunt" has connotations different to simply calling him a "dithering dour cunt". Whether someone in Scotland said something about someone English before or not is irrelevant.
It's about the context in which it is used and the connotations associated with it. A bit like how calling Moyes a "dithering dour Jock cunt" has connotations different to simply calling him a "dithering dour cunt". Whether someone in Scotland said something about someone English before or not is irrelevant.
I'm just glad apologies have now been issued as they should have once guilt was accepted. The nuances of the word "negro" were deliberated over when this happened initially. It wasn't an accidental cultural mistake, which is why Suarez served a lengthy ban.
I can't agree with you on this Anthony. Evra wasn't completly innocent, but nobody in today's society should be subjected to abuse of that nature. Yes, sometimes the PC brigade go OTT, but not in this instance.
I can't agree with you on this Anthony. Evra wasn't completly innocent, but nobody in today's society should be subjected to abuse of that nature. Yes, sometimes the PC brigade go OTT, but not in this instance.
Dave (773), Evra lodged his complaint with officials from the club, who spoke to the referee. A complaint was never made to the police, therefore the FA dealt with it.
In the Terry case, I believe it was a spectator who made the complaint to the police, who then spoke to the players (remember Ferdinand said he never heard anything), took camera footage (including footage that wasn't broadcast) and sent all the info to the CPS, who decided there was a case to answer and a good prospect of getting a conviction.
The FA will likely charge Terry after the court case, irrespective of whether he's found guilty or not guilty. The burden of proof is different - balance of probability, rather than beyond reasonable doubt. The penalties are also different. He'll get a maximum £2,500 fine if found guilty in court (and a criminal record like most of his relatives), whereas Suarez was find £40,000 plus a ban in the FA case.
I think people also missed that in the FA judgement, they said if he was found guilty on another 2 occasions of a similar offence, they would impose a permanent ban. That, I'm guessing, could only apply to England.
In the Terry case, I believe it was a spectator who made the complaint to the police, who then spoke to the players (remember Ferdinand said he never heard anything), took camera footage (including footage that wasn't broadcast) and sent all the info to the CPS, who decided there was a case to answer and a good prospect of getting a conviction.
The FA will likely charge Terry after the court case, irrespective of whether he's found guilty or not guilty. The burden of proof is different - balance of probability, rather than beyond reasonable doubt. The penalties are also different. He'll get a maximum £2,500 fine if found guilty in court (and a criminal record like most of his relatives), whereas Suarez was find £40,000 plus a ban in the FA case.
I think people also missed that in the FA judgement, they said if he was found guilty on another 2 occasions of a similar offence, they would impose a permanent ban. That, I'm guessing, could only apply to England.
As a scouse working down sowf, I remember scousers being referred to as the "niggers from the norf". We thought it was comical and turned it to our advantage, reminding our cockney mates that us niggers from l'pool have giant knobs, beautiful women and great food (scouse), also pointing out our great footballing traditions.
Matt #877, I am only guessing but as the FA are an affiliate of FIFA I think a ban would affect all jurisdictions.
Perhaps someone could clarify that point.
Perhaps someone could clarify that point.
Peter Barry
Quite right. I have always avoided mentioning the hypocrisy of the differing reactions by LFC to the Hillsborough/Heysel events for fear of unnecessarily upsetting people. But it does grate with me too.
I believe passionately in justice for the 96 but the way justice for the 38 is totally ignored by LFC who have never apologized nor accepted any portion of the responsibility for the Heysel tragedy is a travesty. The blaming of everybody and everything else but themselves (including the stadium) is nauseating.
Hillsborough was a terrible accident aided and abetted by organisational incompetence for which somebody should have paid heavily. Heysel, on the other hand, was the result of grotesque, unadulterated thuggery for which the real culprits have never paid. This seems to have been entirely forgotten by the media too, who continue to paint a picture of the lovable Kopites as the best supporters in the land. 74% of those arrested after Heysel were local Liverpool supporters who had been issued with tickets directly by the club. Most of the rest were 'remote' supporters, living for the most part in other parts of the UK but nevertheless with tickets issued by the club. Yet there is still this persistent myth that the hardcore instigators were NF members from the South East.
Every time an issue arises that reignites the Hillsborough debate I hope in vain for just a passing reference from LFC of the need for justice for the dead of Heysel too. But it never comes. I thought it might after the near and repeat disaster of Athens, but it didn't and it never will.
I cannot stand the club. They are arrogant and self-absorbed. Spoiled by historic success they cannot cope with having no justifiable reason to feel superior any more yet they continue to feel superior anyway, fed by media fawning. Grotesque. It was this self perception of superiority that led to them believing they had no case to answer over Suarez and that they could do what they liked. Even more grotesque.
Quite right. I have always avoided mentioning the hypocrisy of the differing reactions by LFC to the Hillsborough/Heysel events for fear of unnecessarily upsetting people. But it does grate with me too.
I believe passionately in justice for the 96 but the way justice for the 38 is totally ignored by LFC who have never apologized nor accepted any portion of the responsibility for the Heysel tragedy is a travesty. The blaming of everybody and everything else but themselves (including the stadium) is nauseating.
Hillsborough was a terrible accident aided and abetted by organisational incompetence for which somebody should have paid heavily. Heysel, on the other hand, was the result of grotesque, unadulterated thuggery for which the real culprits have never paid. This seems to have been entirely forgotten by the media too, who continue to paint a picture of the lovable Kopites as the best supporters in the land. 74% of those arrested after Heysel were local Liverpool supporters who had been issued with tickets directly by the club. Most of the rest were 'remote' supporters, living for the most part in other parts of the UK but nevertheless with tickets issued by the club. Yet there is still this persistent myth that the hardcore instigators were NF members from the South East.
Every time an issue arises that reignites the Hillsborough debate I hope in vain for just a passing reference from LFC of the need for justice for the dead of Heysel too. But it never comes. I thought it might after the near and repeat disaster of Athens, but it didn't and it never will.
I cannot stand the club. They are arrogant and self-absorbed. Spoiled by historic success they cannot cope with having no justifiable reason to feel superior any more yet they continue to feel superior anyway, fed by media fawning. Grotesque. It was this self perception of superiority that led to them believing they had no case to answer over Suarez and that they could do what they liked. Even more grotesque.
Dave, excellently written. Like you, I would shy away from pointing out the hypocrisy that surrounds Liverpool Football Club purely because of the pure venom that comes back if you dare make such comments.
A friend of mine was on the TalkSport forums where Stan Collymore was expanding on why Suarez was wrong not to shake hands with Evra and the abuse he got from Liverpool fans was unbelievable. Far worse than what was said to Evra.
A friend of mine was on the TalkSport forums where Stan Collymore was expanding on why Suarez was wrong not to shake hands with Evra and the abuse he got from Liverpool fans was unbelievable. Far worse than what was said to Evra.
Brian #806 its a Liverpool supporter in a hat and scarf covering his face with a southern accent rambling about how badly done by Suarez is in what looks like his bedroom, he punches the wall next to him a good few times and vents his spleen with real lack of dignity or even slightest comprehension of the whole affair. His arguments have no foundation and are quite laughable if it wasn't for the evidence that since this whole thing kicked off there appear to be thousands of classless clowns just like him.
One humerous posting on facebook included a rambling letter to the FA from a supposed legal secretary with several years experience whose brother claimed knew her stuff and how to write letters; funnily enough the grammar and spelling mistakes started in her first paragraph.
One humerous posting on facebook included a rambling letter to the FA from a supposed legal secretary with several years experience whose brother claimed knew her stuff and how to write letters; funnily enough the grammar and spelling mistakes started in her first paragraph.
It could have all been avoided with 2 simple public statements at the start.
LFC - "Whilst we are assured by Luis Suarez that he did not intend any offence by his comments during the game to Patrice Evra we would like to apologise for any such offence that was taken. We will speak with Luis and deal with the matter as a club who takes the issue of Racism, perceived or actual, seriously"
Lusi Suarez
"Whilst I personally do not think I said anything wrong I can understand how Patrice Evra felt offence and I would like to apologise now to him and his club for any offence caused".
Thats all it would have taken.
But LFC and Kenny took the offensive and f'cked it up royally!
LFC - "Whilst we are assured by Luis Suarez that he did not intend any offence by his comments during the game to Patrice Evra we would like to apologise for any such offence that was taken. We will speak with Luis and deal with the matter as a club who takes the issue of Racism, perceived or actual, seriously"
Lusi Suarez
"Whilst I personally do not think I said anything wrong I can understand how Patrice Evra felt offence and I would like to apologise now to him and his club for any offence caused".
Thats all it would have taken.
But LFC and Kenny took the offensive and f'cked it up royally!
Anthony Jones - stop digging lad you'll fall in that hole soon.
Suarez admitted racially abusing him 8 times, Evra heard this and reported it, the tv camera shows the shock reaction from Evra he accepted his 8 match ban (did not appeal) what more evidence do you need you beaut!
Suarez refused to shake his hand because he had rumbled him for being the racist that he is!
Evra did not try to crunch him early on christ are tackles not allowed now! What happened later on when Suarez went one for one he had ample oppurtunity to clatter him then but proved he is the better man.
Im no fan of Evra but maybe he was celebrating and making the crowd celebrate (not riot) because of Suarezs' refusal to make peace and apologise.
Your kopite behaviour is similar to Kennys and you are beggining to look as silly as him.
PS - I can type you an apology if you wish seen as your other 2 heros have now been forced to give one!
Suarez admitted racially abusing him 8 times, Evra heard this and reported it, the tv camera shows the shock reaction from Evra he accepted his 8 match ban (did not appeal) what more evidence do you need you beaut!
Suarez refused to shake his hand because he had rumbled him for being the racist that he is!
Evra did not try to crunch him early on christ are tackles not allowed now! What happened later on when Suarez went one for one he had ample oppurtunity to clatter him then but proved he is the better man.
Im no fan of Evra but maybe he was celebrating and making the crowd celebrate (not riot) because of Suarezs' refusal to make peace and apologise.
Your kopite behaviour is similar to Kennys and you are beggining to look as silly as him.
PS - I can type you an apology if you wish seen as your other 2 heros have now been forced to give one!
Dave Roberts 912.
A thoroughly outstanding post.
A thoroughly outstanding post.
David, I was trying to see the other side of the fence. What seems to happen in these situations is that the press tell the story that creates the most outrage.
They conveniently, as do you, ignore any information that does not support their argument.
I have already stated in this thread that Suarez deserved his punishment if the allegations made against him are true. I am not supporting LFC or Dalglish.
However, in the recent Liverpool v Man United match the only player that embarassed themselves was Evra. If I knew what you looked like and chanced upon you in a football match I wouldn't shake your hand "you beaut". That's my choice in a free country.
PS. your exclamation marks don't make your arguments any stronger. Good effort though. Now get back on your high horse and ride on.
They conveniently, as do you, ignore any information that does not support their argument.
I have already stated in this thread that Suarez deserved his punishment if the allegations made against him are true. I am not supporting LFC or Dalglish.
However, in the recent Liverpool v Man United match the only player that embarassed themselves was Evra. If I knew what you looked like and chanced upon you in a football match I wouldn't shake your hand "you beaut". That's my choice in a free country.
PS. your exclamation marks don't make your arguments any stronger. Good effort though. Now get back on your high horse and ride on.
Dave Wilson.
Cracking post.
If anyone is in any doubt as to the level of stupidity that surrounds those lovable little rascals from across the park, have a read of the comments on the Liverpool Echo site regarding the long overdue apologies.
You would think there mght be a scrap of regret as to how the name of their club (and the City) has been dragged through the mud during this regrettable episode, but no. They still maintain Suarez is/was innocent, Evra refused the handshake, Kenny is still King, Barnes only ever took a banana at Goodison, the Earth is still round...., you get the picture.
Cracking post.
If anyone is in any doubt as to the level of stupidity that surrounds those lovable little rascals from across the park, have a read of the comments on the Liverpool Echo site regarding the long overdue apologies.
You would think there mght be a scrap of regret as to how the name of their club (and the City) has been dragged through the mud during this regrettable episode, but no. They still maintain Suarez is/was innocent, Evra refused the handshake, Kenny is still King, Barnes only ever took a banana at Goodison, the Earth is still round...., you get the picture.
Sorry, wrong Dave. I, of course, meant Dave Roberts.
You're still crap, Dave Wilson...
(how do you do that smiley thing...?)
You're still crap, Dave Wilson...
(how do you do that smiley thing...?)
To quote a certain Gilbert Keith Chesterton
"A stiff apology is a second insult"
How many stiff apologies have poured out of Analfield over the years?
Can't stand 'em.
Dave Roberts bang on the money.
"A stiff apology is a second insult"
How many stiff apologies have poured out of Analfield over the years?
Can't stand 'em.
Dave Roberts bang on the money.
Something no commentator picked up on about Suarez, very early in the Man Utd match, was the shove he gave to Ferdinand which caused him to collide heavily with Evra. The 3 of them were converging on the ball, but Suarez held back at the last moment and very deftly pushed Ferdinand in the back, propelling him into Evra. It happened so quickly, within minutes of the start, that nobody seemed to notice, especially the ref. Look closely at the replay though and it's clear. How dangerous was that?
The sad thing is that all of these RS South American language and cultural 'experts' convinced that Suarez is innocent would be equally convinced that he was a racist cheating twat if he ever signed for Manchester United!
Dave Roberts, 912. Thank you for posting that reply its how I feel and have felt for a very long time. My weakness in life is my hatred of LFC the club, not necessary the average fan. I always think EFC should have sued either the RS or UEFA for loss of earnings as it was clearly a restraint of trade in the EU.
We may never again in my life time have such a crop of talent that could have went on and secured the European Cup. My friend is a mad RS and he always asks me why I’m so bitter, the problem is I have a list of about 10 and all valid!!!
Them being allowed back in to the European Cup after Istanbul when they never even qualified was nothing short of a disgrace to football and the word “fair play”. To date I can’t think of any team in football being allowed to enter a prestigious competition when they legitimately failed to qualify, and it’s about time people understand just what a disgrace and shambles they are.
Proud to be an Evertonian.
We may never again in my life time have such a crop of talent that could have went on and secured the European Cup. My friend is a mad RS and he always asks me why I’m so bitter, the problem is I have a list of about 10 and all valid!!!
Them being allowed back in to the European Cup after Istanbul when they never even qualified was nothing short of a disgrace to football and the word “fair play”. To date I can’t think of any team in football being allowed to enter a prestigious competition when they legitimately failed to qualify, and it’s about time people understand just what a disgrace and shambles they are.
Proud to be an Evertonian.
Dave - you ain't my brother, but I wish you were. Spot on, my thoughts entirely for the last 23 years.
And for those who admired Phil Neville, agree with you as well. Top Guy, not a world beater, not as good as he was but fantastic professional, proud he is an Evertonian. How many other players said on national TV, after 2 games I deserved to be dropped and at just over 35 still fights for his place and crunches Cashley and CRonaldo (a few years ago)?
And for those who admired Phil Neville, agree with you as well. Top Guy, not a world beater, not as good as he was but fantastic professional, proud he is an Evertonian. How many other players said on national TV, after 2 games I deserved to be dropped and at just over 35 still fights for his place and crunches Cashley and CRonaldo (a few years ago)?
Dave - you ain't my brother, but I wish you were. Spot on, my thoughts entirely for the last 23 years.
And for those who admired Phil Neville, agree with you as well. Top Guy, not a world beater, not as good as he was but fantastic professional, proud he is an Evertonian. How many other players said on national TV, after 2 games I deserved to be dropped and at just over 35 still fights for his place and crunches Cashley and CRonaldo (a few years ago)?
And for those who admired Phil Neville, agree with you as well. Top Guy, not a world beater, not as good as he was but fantastic professional, proud he is an Evertonian. How many other players said on national TV, after 2 games I deserved to be dropped and at just over 35 still fights for his place and crunches Cashley and CRonaldo (a few years ago)?
Wait, so Matt is it illegal to be racist in England? Please tell me that's not true.
Anthony - Don't try and justify Suarez and Daglish by looking at things from the other side of the fence the facts are clear in this case:
Suarez racially abused him on a number of occasions and rightfully received a ban, Dalglish and his thick team supported the racists views by wearing t-shirts with his image on and telling the world he shouldn't be banned because racism is acceptable isn't it!
Then the hand shake he refused to shake his hand because he is racist and Evra had the balls to report it knowing that beauts like you and other kopites would slate him forever for reporting it.
If I played against you I would offer my hand out if you refused it would be childish but I'm sure I won't lose any sleep.
Suarez racially abused him on a number of occasions and rightfully received a ban, Dalglish and his thick team supported the racists views by wearing t-shirts with his image on and telling the world he shouldn't be banned because racism is acceptable isn't it!
Then the hand shake he refused to shake his hand because he is racist and Evra had the balls to report it knowing that beauts like you and other kopites would slate him forever for reporting it.
If I played against you I would offer my hand out if you refused it would be childish but I'm sure I won't lose any sleep.
Superb post, Dave Roberts.
Couldn't agree more.
Couldn't agree more.
Nate 004. Yes it is illegal to have an opinion that doesn't fit with what is considered "the norm" also Free speech is a thing of the past.
The cultural left of this septic isle is as fascist as any military run country. There , said it.
Now back to my Rainbow Alliance pamphlet....
The cultural left of this septic isle is as fascist as any military run country. There , said it.
Now back to my Rainbow Alliance pamphlet....
Nate (004), Terry is facing criminal charges for using racist language, so yes it's illegal. There's suddenly been a spate of cases with people being filmed in public abusing people that have now hit the courts. Whilst Andrew (045) is a bit extreme, I spent almost 8 years living in a country where people where tried and jailed for expressing extremist views on blogs etc related to race or religion - under a crime of sedition.
Nate - you can be as racist as you like... just don't say it, write it or sing it where other people can hear it... or you'll find yourself on the wrong end of the law.
Mr Roberts, #t 912, my views exactly, respect both those harmed at the tragic incidents.
All of you out there that want to, please call me, but I admit to being a bitter blue and as someone who witnessed the demise of the "best team in Europe" following the ban and all the rest of it, then this is why I hate that club and its supporters.
To digress, I grew up in South Manchester in classes full of United fans and the stuff that goes with them.
To say the game I enjoy most twice a year is the LUFC V MUFC game is an understatement, I never wish player injury but I wish the worst on them all and last weekend was a joy to see.
All of you out there that want to, please call me, but I admit to being a bitter blue and as someone who witnessed the demise of the "best team in Europe" following the ban and all the rest of it, then this is why I hate that club and its supporters.
To digress, I grew up in South Manchester in classes full of United fans and the stuff that goes with them.
To say the game I enjoy most twice a year is the LUFC V MUFC game is an understatement, I never wish player injury but I wish the worst on them all and last weekend was a joy to see.
In expressing puzzlement at why his words caused offence I believe Suarez was genuine. In many countries, of which Uruguay is one, there is a broad acceptance of words that vilify race, religion and skin colour.
Dick, exactly, point well made. The thing is though, this is England and we have our standards of behaviour and that we aspire to NOT vilify race, religeon and skin colour is a credit to us. I heard a phrase, "when in Rome do as the Romans do"
He played in Europe long enough to know better. He is probably as thick as he looks.
He is a nasty racist lying bastard and he suits liverpool. If Uruguayans all think that way I am happy to generalise them all as racists. Have any of his black teamates from Uruguay defended him? I dont think so.
He is a nasty racist lying bastard and he suits liverpool. If Uruguayans all think that way I am happy to generalise them all as racists. Have any of his black teamates from Uruguay defended him? I dont think so.
Thing I can never understand is why so many RS supporters consider it so important to personally defend their heroes - try having a sensible conversation about the Stevie G ruck or the Suarez / Evra spat and it's as though you are making obscene suggestions about close family relations. Do these people actually believe that these players really give a monkey's about them?
One of my former colleagues swore blind that you couldn't see 'Saint Steven' laying into the other fella after we watched the CCTV footage twice and I pointed out exactly where his body movements were of someone laying into someone else. Okay, you couldn't actually see the punches landing but it was obvious he wasn't tickling the guy! Unfortunately there are none so blind as those who will not see.
That is the problem with making any sort of subjective comment these days (even if you admit to it being a matter of opinion) - you are increasingly likely to encounter someone who is prepared to vehemently disagree with you. Is this a possible side-effect of our media-influenced society were everyone wants to feel involved in absolutely everything that happens to our so-called celebrities and a rational, reasoned response is seen as being weak compared to chest beating and bulging-eyed fanaticism?
Would be nice if all personal comments made in a public forum were limited to the positive unless supported by irrefutable proof.
On that note, just like to acknowledge all the comments about Phil Neville. A credit to his profession, family and (our) club and I think he has the attributes to continue at Everton in a coaching capacity should he so choose. That said, I reserve the right to moan loudly should he mess-up on the pitch, and continue to hope that we are able to field enough better players to make his continued heroic efforts unnecessary. :)
One of my former colleagues swore blind that you couldn't see 'Saint Steven' laying into the other fella after we watched the CCTV footage twice and I pointed out exactly where his body movements were of someone laying into someone else. Okay, you couldn't actually see the punches landing but it was obvious he wasn't tickling the guy! Unfortunately there are none so blind as those who will not see.
That is the problem with making any sort of subjective comment these days (even if you admit to it being a matter of opinion) - you are increasingly likely to encounter someone who is prepared to vehemently disagree with you. Is this a possible side-effect of our media-influenced society were everyone wants to feel involved in absolutely everything that happens to our so-called celebrities and a rational, reasoned response is seen as being weak compared to chest beating and bulging-eyed fanaticism?
Would be nice if all personal comments made in a public forum were limited to the positive unless supported by irrefutable proof.
On that note, just like to acknowledge all the comments about Phil Neville. A credit to his profession, family and (our) club and I think he has the attributes to continue at Everton in a coaching capacity should he so choose. That said, I reserve the right to moan loudly should he mess-up on the pitch, and continue to hope that we are able to field enough better players to make his continued heroic efforts unnecessary. :)
Anthony, I'll give you that had you not been aware of the history of the two players that Evra would have been the person that you thought was the bigger prick. Clattering into his team mate (although I didn't see "the push") to try and take out Suarez and leaping about like a camp school boy at the end of the match just because Suarez snubbed him at the handshake. But then anyone with an iota of sense would assume that there was some history. Once you find that Suarez when asked why he kicked Evra said "because you're black" and referred to Evra's skin colour a further 6 times, there's no ifs or buts.
Don't really get this Evra celebrating is wrong bit.
If it was me and we'd just beaten Queen Kenny's bunch of racist, diving, cheating bastards i'd still be doing a lap of honour now.
If it was me and we'd just beaten Queen Kenny's bunch of racist, diving, cheating bastards i'd still be doing a lap of honour now.
Coral, 949,
my view of that incident was that Evra was lucky Ferdinand got in his way.
He came way off his position like an exocet at the first chance he got and was clearly, in my view, aiming to clatter Suarez into next week.
I think Evra would have been sent off and lost much of his moral high ground.
As a fellow left back I would have done exactly the same to the narky little racist twat but in hindsight its probably better for Evra that he didnt achieve his objective!
my view of that incident was that Evra was lucky Ferdinand got in his way.
He came way off his position like an exocet at the first chance he got and was clearly, in my view, aiming to clatter Suarez into next week.
I think Evra would have been sent off and lost much of his moral high ground.
As a fellow left back I would have done exactly the same to the narky little racist twat but in hindsight its probably better for Evra that he didnt achieve his objective!
This whole situation is because of the shit house King Kenny,
Hes been raking it up non stop at any given opportunity and tub thumping that Suraez was innocent.
Now Suarez has gone and let Kenny down.
You know what.......
ITS FUCKING HILARIOUS!!!!!
This has tarnised the shite worldwide and finally shown LFC for the dispicable shit house club it really is.
History has and never will show them in a kind light.
Hes been raking it up non stop at any given opportunity and tub thumping that Suraez was innocent.
Now Suarez has gone and let Kenny down.
You know what.......
ITS FUCKING HILARIOUS!!!!!
This has tarnised the shite worldwide and finally shown LFC for the dispicable shit house club it really is.
History has and never will show them in a kind light.
Ray Roche # 942 - Never was a truer differentiation made between two Daves .
@ Noel Lynam # 867 - Not very good at English comprehension are you. I was merely pointing out to you the endemic xenophobic Scottish bigotry against the English in particular as a comparison to the extremely mild inoffensive naming of a Scottish person as a 'Jock' which as I say again many Jocks use to describe each other. Now if I had said it's OK for us to call him a Jock because they call the English far worse and if Jock really was derogatory you would have had a point.
But I never did I merely pointed out that in Scotland the anti English bigotry is endemic, and especially in the North East and around Aberdeen where I lived for eight years but strangely not in Shetland ,where I also lived for a few years too, but then Shetlanders tend to get offended if you call them Scottish. MOST Jocks have an abiding virulent hatred for the English and are not reticent in letting you know it in the most profane manner.
But I never did I merely pointed out that in Scotland the anti English bigotry is endemic, and especially in the North East and around Aberdeen where I lived for eight years but strangely not in Shetland ,where I also lived for a few years too, but then Shetlanders tend to get offended if you call them Scottish. MOST Jocks have an abiding virulent hatred for the English and are not reticent in letting you know it in the most profane manner.
Check out this gobshite if you wanna get inside the mind of a deluded red shite fan.
http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2012/02/us-and-them-time-to-pull-up-the-drawbridge/
Unbelievable.
http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2012/02/us-and-them-time-to-pull-up-the-drawbridge/
Unbelievable.
But it's not just the racist remarks. Suarez has serious history.
No sense of dignity in the World Cup.
Banned for 8 games for biting an opposition player in Europe.
Banned for 8 games for making racist remarks.
Banned for giving opposing fans the finger. (While his racism trial was taking place).
Not shaking the hand after promising his manager he would.
Suarez is not the brightest bulb in the pack. As others have noted, he has a lot in common with Tevez. Great footballing skill but lacking in human graces.
I can understand the Liverpool contingent desperately trying to support the player they see as their best chance to get somewhere in the next few years. But they should have acted with more grace and common sense.
I hope we would have taken the high road in similar circumstances but I don't think we would all be on the same page. We are all human.
Now let's look to the next game and dream about Wembly. COYB!
No sense of dignity in the World Cup.
Banned for 8 games for biting an opposition player in Europe.
Banned for 8 games for making racist remarks.
Banned for giving opposing fans the finger. (While his racism trial was taking place).
Not shaking the hand after promising his manager he would.
Suarez is not the brightest bulb in the pack. As others have noted, he has a lot in common with Tevez. Great footballing skill but lacking in human graces.
I can understand the Liverpool contingent desperately trying to support the player they see as their best chance to get somewhere in the next few years. But they should have acted with more grace and common sense.
I hope we would have taken the high road in similar circumstances but I don't think we would all be on the same page. We are all human.
Now let's look to the next game and dream about Wembly. COYB!
Gareth Morgan (301): EVERYONE should have a read of that...... as you said mate, it really is unbelievable. Words fail me
Read it Gareth and its is nauseating and cringeworthy and indeed a look deep inside the mind of a deluded perpetual victim Red Shite.
Gareth, I dont normally associate mysellf with Liverpool fc, it's fans, websites etc and already had an idea of the tripe and guff that would be voiced by an idiotic, self pitying cretinous Liverpool fan, however:
"They think we are deluded, self pitying, bolshy, arrogant, provincial and parochial, unwashed mass of chip-on-the-shoulder has-been sentiment. They think we’ve got red shit in our eyes and have no chance of seeing their objectivity for what it is. We’re so partisan, so Kenny, so Shankly, so Scouse, that we can’t tell race from wrong"
Be fair to the lad, I couldn't have put it better myself.
It's the same defence that Queen Kenny reels out every time he has to put his featureless mug in front of reporters. Culpability is not an option for these assholes.
"They think we are deluded, self pitying, bolshy, arrogant, provincial and parochial, unwashed mass of chip-on-the-shoulder has-been sentiment. They think we’ve got red shit in our eyes and have no chance of seeing their objectivity for what it is. We’re so partisan, so Kenny, so Shankly, so Scouse, that we can’t tell race from wrong"
Be fair to the lad, I couldn't have put it better myself.
It's the same defence that Queen Kenny reels out every time he has to put his featureless mug in front of reporters. Culpability is not an option for these assholes.
I've just read that pile of self pitying shite Gareth - I don't know how I'm going to keep my breakfast down.
Suarez is everything thats wrong with football in this country! Diving, screaming, mimic card waving. And most of it stems from the team across the park. Maybe it's because they are not part of the big four now and they can see their cosy little Empire crumbling... King Kenny (my arse) will resign when things get hotter and guess who will be back to send them into oblivion. RAFA! HAHAHAHA...
Just started reading that piece of shite and stopped after the first sentence when he has basically questioned whether they were truly 100% the blame for Heysel!
Is it any wonder when I travel abroad you notice that so many people dislike this area of ours when you read utter self-pitying shit like that.
Is it any wonder when I travel abroad you notice that so many people dislike this area of ours when you read utter self-pitying shit like that.
Couldn't finish it... I somehow started to feel dirty just reading what he posted.
All the lemming responses too... apart from Dan near the end... have they been infiltrated?
All the lemming responses too... apart from Dan near the end... have they been infiltrated?
I stopped reading it after this piece of shite;
‘’…but I know that my club ultimately took responsibility for it, and that we as supporters remain haunted by the spectre of those events to this day.’’
Took responsibility? It took the club, through the Liverpool Echo, until 2005 to issue a full apology, and the same night for the club to offer Juventus their hand on the pitch (which the Juve fans turned their back on by the way).
Perhaps he would like to explain the Steaua Bucharesti ‘86 flag at the Mersey derby a few years ago?
Or the ‘2-0 to the murderers’ song?
Totally fed up with those gobshites forever trying to re-write history, and ignoring incidents to suit their agenda.
Fuckin gobshites.
‘’…but I know that my club ultimately took responsibility for it, and that we as supporters remain haunted by the spectre of those events to this day.’’
Took responsibility? It took the club, through the Liverpool Echo, until 2005 to issue a full apology, and the same night for the club to offer Juventus their hand on the pitch (which the Juve fans turned their back on by the way).
Perhaps he would like to explain the Steaua Bucharesti ‘86 flag at the Mersey derby a few years ago?
Or the ‘2-0 to the murderers’ song?
Totally fed up with those gobshites forever trying to re-write history, and ignoring incidents to suit their agenda.
Fuckin gobshites.
It is alleged to have been reported...(I was told this story by someone present)
Shortly after Heysel, there was a Littlewood's management function and John Smith (LFC Chairman) was allegedly overheard, during dinner, to say to Peter Robinson (LFC CEO) "Whatever happens now, you have to make sure Everton get the same ban"
Has anyone else heard this? Another suburban myth?
Shortly after Heysel, there was a Littlewood's management function and John Smith (LFC Chairman) was allegedly overheard, during dinner, to say to Peter Robinson (LFC CEO) "Whatever happens now, you have to make sure Everton get the same ban"
Has anyone else heard this? Another suburban myth?
At first I wasn't going to read it, then I couldn't connect, so fall back on my old stand-by... RS, you get exactly what it says on the packet.
Well that RS article has to rank as the biggest crock of self-deluded crap I have ever read. It would be laugh out load funny if it didn't try to rationalise the deaths of 39 people and the blatant racism that has been demonstrated by their players and fans over the last few weeks.
By the way do you notice that most Bond villains these days are stunted, swivel-eyed bitter little rodents supported by grotesque, buck-teethed simpletons who do their dirty work. Yes Daniel Craig and casting directors for the next 007 movie get yourselves to Anfield!
Or is it that Craig like so many 'true Liverpool supporters' (i.e. living south of Milton Keynes and driving a Prius) will steer well clear from now on?
By the way do you notice that most Bond villains these days are stunted, swivel-eyed bitter little rodents supported by grotesque, buck-teethed simpletons who do their dirty work. Yes Daniel Craig and casting directors for the next 007 movie get yourselves to Anfield!
Or is it that Craig like so many 'true Liverpool supporters' (i.e. living south of Milton Keynes and driving a Prius) will steer well clear from now on?
I know this is a bit off topic but surely its time to change the record.
I am minded of Derek Doolan a Wolves player in the 60s. Derek was the first player to sport a truly outrageous hair style. Well, in those days it was considered to be outrageous – a mix between a Mohawk, bald except for a tuft on top and a Davy Crocket, thick bushy tail hanging down his back. It looked as if he had a dead squirrel on his head.
Each time he touched the ball the Goodison crowd erupted with Red Indian whoop whoop whoops.
Around the same, time our own Brian Harris turned out with a dazzling platinum mop of hair. The 'Echo' called him a blonde Bombshell. Both of them were a credit to the game.
I am minded of Derek Doolan a Wolves player in the 60s. Derek was the first player to sport a truly outrageous hair style. Well, in those days it was considered to be outrageous – a mix between a Mohawk, bald except for a tuft on top and a Davy Crocket, thick bushy tail hanging down his back. It looked as if he had a dead squirrel on his head.
Each time he touched the ball the Goodison crowd erupted with Red Indian whoop whoop whoops.
Around the same, time our own Brian Harris turned out with a dazzling platinum mop of hair. The 'Echo' called him a blonde Bombshell. Both of them were a credit to the game.
Woah, I am surprised this is still going!
Anthony, your comments are laughable. I never claimed you were a racist. I said it was alarming that you assumed 'faux' outrage at racism. The only person who is suggesting you are racist is you, with your aggressive defensive behaviour.
You complain about Evra's conduct during the game, but what about Suarez? He was the perfect wounded victim and his refusal to shake Evra's hand and his kicking of the ball into the crowd was not acceptable. Or do you think it’s ok for a player to kick the ball into a crowd because he is irritated?
With regards to the media; the great exaggerators. Do you not think their outrage is sometimes justified? Reputable papers ran big stories criticising Liverpool, because they deserved to be criticised. It was no mountain over a mole hill, but rather a justifiable reaction given the stakes and actions of Liverpool.
Anthony, also thanks for giving me a laugh criticising the media for their pro-Evra reaction and general authorial practice and then referring to a paper (The Observer) as an authority on Evra’s conduct. Absolutely classic work.
Also, have you actually read many of the reasons re. the verdict? Or are you still naive enough to think it was a just a case of one man’s word against another?
Funny stuff Anthony, funny stuff. I salute you, the new toffeeweb clown.
Anthony, your comments are laughable. I never claimed you were a racist. I said it was alarming that you assumed 'faux' outrage at racism. The only person who is suggesting you are racist is you, with your aggressive defensive behaviour.
You complain about Evra's conduct during the game, but what about Suarez? He was the perfect wounded victim and his refusal to shake Evra's hand and his kicking of the ball into the crowd was not acceptable. Or do you think it’s ok for a player to kick the ball into a crowd because he is irritated?
With regards to the media; the great exaggerators. Do you not think their outrage is sometimes justified? Reputable papers ran big stories criticising Liverpool, because they deserved to be criticised. It was no mountain over a mole hill, but rather a justifiable reaction given the stakes and actions of Liverpool.
Anthony, also thanks for giving me a laugh criticising the media for their pro-Evra reaction and general authorial practice and then referring to a paper (The Observer) as an authority on Evra’s conduct. Absolutely classic work.
Also, have you actually read many of the reasons re. the verdict? Or are you still naive enough to think it was a just a case of one man’s word against another?
Funny stuff Anthony, funny stuff. I salute you, the new toffeeweb clown.
As Jim mentions, Suarez has played long enough in Europe to know racism is a huge no no.
Saying that though, whether its right or wrong, I reckon if it was happening to us, we would would have fans who would be backing our player, and we would have those disgusted by it, as I would be. I also reckon Moyes would haved sacked Suarez.
I remember Pienaar's drink driving, we had plenty on here defending him, I remember someone saying something along the lines of " Its not as if he ran anyone over "
Saying that though, whether its right or wrong, I reckon if it was happening to us, we would would have fans who would be backing our player, and we would have those disgusted by it, as I would be. I also reckon Moyes would haved sacked Suarez.
I remember Pienaar's drink driving, we had plenty on here defending him, I remember someone saying something along the lines of " Its not as if he ran anyone over "
If you just apply the rule I apply, it all becomes really simple and eliminates debate on the 'rules' or the laws or who plays for who etc.
My rule?
Anyone (ANYWHERE) who addresses someone, based on their ethnicity or skin colour, is a staggeringly thick, nasty cunt who thoroughly deserves a sore face.
Easy peazy!
My rule?
Anyone (ANYWHERE) who addresses someone, based on their ethnicity or skin colour, is a staggeringly thick, nasty cunt who thoroughly deserves a sore face.
Easy peazy!
Have read the article - to those that have not, then do. It provides a real insight into the mindset that has been portrayed so ineptly by Dalglish.
However, to be fair and balanced (something I believe we do in far greater numbers than they could ever imagine), plenty of responses from Liverpool fans (as well as outsiders as you would expect) take the author to task and pour scorn on his stance and attitude. Many express disgust at the Heysel comparison.
I have family and friends who are LFC fans. Not one of them is happy with how the club have handled this. We can only hope that our club would act with more decency. Class as well as trophies count.
However, to be fair and balanced (something I believe we do in far greater numbers than they could ever imagine), plenty of responses from Liverpool fans (as well as outsiders as you would expect) take the author to task and pour scorn on his stance and attitude. Many express disgust at the Heysel comparison.
I have family and friends who are LFC fans. Not one of them is happy with how the club have handled this. We can only hope that our club would act with more decency. Class as well as trophies count.
Gareth #301 - After reading that whining, self-pitying, sanctimonious, self-important pile of shite, it changes nothing for me. It just reinforces my feelings because those views have always been their views and I've hated the red filth since the late 1970's when I was 11 or 12 years old.
Kopites disgust me. They are the shit I sometimes find on the sole of my shoe. Whenever I step in it I think of them.
Proud to be BLUE.
Kopites disgust me. They are the shit I sometimes find on the sole of my shoe. Whenever I step in it I think of them.
Proud to be BLUE.
Dick Fearon,I think you may be referring to the late Derek Dougan, a true maverick whose book "the sash I never wore" was a generation ahead of it's time. A thinking footballer whose on field madness belied the off field intelligence.
When he and Best played together I actually expected Northern Ireland to win. His influence on the modern game is forgotten but he was an advocate of players rights when they actually had none.
When he and Best played together I actually expected Northern Ireland to win. His influence on the modern game is forgotten but he was an advocate of players rights when they actually had none.
Andy # 431, You are correct, his name was Dougan. I also remember he was a strong players advocate at a time when clubs held the whip hand over players.
I am not sure he would be overjoyed at how far the pendulum has swung the other way.
I am not sure he would be overjoyed at how far the pendulum has swung the other way.
Just an update on Phil Bellis(329) my father had a lot of dealings in football with Peter Robinson in the early 90s and he was one of the old school so I would doubt he would get involved in those type of shennanigans sic.
Andy 431. Dougan was indeed a most articulate guy....he first came to note as a pundit on the ITV panel in the 1974 World Cup, I think. Anyway, always entertaining.
In keeping with the maverick image did he not, in his later years, get charged with burglary or some such ?
In keeping with the maverick image did he not, in his later years, get charged with burglary or some such ?
I broke my arm at wolves at a boxing day game in the early 70s. The medical room was right next to the wolves dressing room. Derek Dougan noticed me while they were lining up to come out. Despite the fact I was bedecked in blue and white , he was kind enough to come in and offer words of condolence and made sure the ambulance was on its way. Never forgot it and always rooted for him afterwards.. Reminded me of the lanky Portuguese striker , Torres , who played up top with eusebio .
Great in the air and as others have said , a smart and funny individual on and off the field .
Great in the air and as others have said , a smart and funny individual on and off the field .
Never heard about the burglary,Alan, but it wouldn't surprise me.My late father knew and admired him. I can remember him advocating an all Ireland football team.something which led to him being accused of treason in some quarters.
In some ways he reminds be of big Dunc.surely it wasn't Dunc's house he burgled ,Alan!!!!
In some ways he reminds be of big Dunc.surely it wasn't Dunc's house he burgled ,Alan!!!!
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592 Posted 13/02/2012 at 08:58:09
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Behave!
I don't agree with how Liverpool responded to the issue but to say racism is ingrained in the club is ridiculous. It's no more or less ingrained than at our club - the only difference is that they just had a PR nightmare.