Reports: Jelavic out for two weeks

, 20 September, 78comments  |  Jump to most recent
Croatian sustained a knee injury in collision with a post
Everton appear to have been dealt another blow with the loss to injury of Nikica Jelavic, with reports suggesting that the striker will miss at least two weeks with the knee injury he sustained against Newcastle on Monday night.

The Croatian collided heavily with a post in the 2-2 draw but soldiered through almost to half time before being withdrawn.

According to ESPN, he will miss the next two league games, as well as the Capital One League Cup third round trip to Leeds United next week but is hoping to return for the home game against Wigan Athletic on 6th October.

Quotes or other material sourced from ESPN.co.uk



Reader Comments (78)

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Tom Dodds
1 Posted 20/09/2012 at 05:09:52
Tch! If it wasn't for bad luck, EFC would have no luck at all. It makes you wonder back then when the club was sold for a song, what would have been if the person who nicked it had had more money. And Rooney stayed the spearpoint of the team etc. People (LFC especially!) would be 'doffing their caps' to us by now.
Sean McKenna
2 Posted 20/09/2012 at 05:36:38
Interesting to see how we cope with two key players out... time to give the young ones a go as clearly the likes of Neville and Osman can't go the full 90 minutes anymore... Junior and Gueye? Or where has that Oviedo got too? I was pretty sure we signed him... must be another cock-up from our management!
Martin Mason
3 Posted 20/09/2012 at 06:17:14
Very disappointing, I'd like to see it used as an opportunity to introduce new players but the outcome is likely to be much more predictable.
Gavin Ramejkis
4 Posted 20/09/2012 at 07:03:25
Its sadly predictable that Moyes will continue with the poor Neville and Osman defensive midfield combo in the absence of Gibson nailed on as a dead cert with Fellaini pushed up top alongside Anichebe as his replacement for Jelavic with a couple of weeks worth of hoofball on its way. He could blood some fringe players but his MO is too predictable - they would only stand a chance if Neville and Osman got injured or suspended and despite Anichebe and Fellaini up front just giving a bigger excuse for twatting it long at two targets he will go for that rather than using Mirallas or Naismith as temporary alternatives up there.
Suresh Gill
5 Posted 20/09/2012 at 07:02:39
I assumed Naismith would've been an automatic sub when Jelavic got injured, but was surprised to see Victor Anichebe replacing him against Newcastle. Although Victor was a handful for their defence, IMO he still shouldn't start. Only as a (super)SUB.
I really want Heitinga to play and hope Moyes gives some of the youngsters a go. It's time to be a little more constructive and bring back the excitement like the way we started.
Sam Hoare
6 Posted 20/09/2012 at 07:09:24
Always predicted this summer that we would struggle if we lost 2 or more from pienaar, baines, Gibson, jelavic and fellaini. Now we have, though at least it's not for too long.

Replacements are not as good but I guess it has to be anichebe or Naismith for jelly. Don't think vellios is good enough from what I hear of u21s this season.

How about this team

Howard
Hibbert heitinga distin baines
Coleman fellaini osman pienaar
Naismith
Mirallas

Sean McKenna
7 Posted 20/09/2012 at 07:20:13
Sam,

Osman... really?? After that performance, he deserves a week with the reserves. The only position Osman should play is in the hole where – if he loses it – it won't cost us goals.
Peter Barry
8 Posted 20/09/2012 at 07:26:19
Drop Neville play Mirallas upfront with Naismith behind put Heitinga in to partner Jagielka at the back and pull Felliani back in to midfield with Coleman on his right.
In fact almost exactly what Sam said apart from Jags not Distin.
Ajay Gopal
9 Posted 20/09/2012 at 07:29:33
I like it, Sam. Anichebe can come on after about 60-70 minutes, which is when he has a good impact. Jags or Neville on the bench to protect a lead, if we have it at that time.

My subs bench: Mucha, Jagielka, Neville, Oviedo, Anichebe, Gueye, Velios

Peter Thistle
10 Posted 20/09/2012 at 08:02:05
Assume Mirallas will play up front. He is comfortable there as he proved for Olympiakos last season. Naismith on the right I guess.
Sam Higgins
11 Posted 20/09/2012 at 08:23:13
U lot make me piss virtually every team sheet I see in these threads before a game omits phil neville its ridiculous as he will play if fit he is the captain and prob the first name on the real team sheet. U may as well put him down as right back and go from there but to leave him out is silly as its just not gonna happen!!
James Martin
12 Posted 20/09/2012 at 08:38:22
Gavin why is a couple of weeks worth of hoofball on its way? Apart from Jelavic it will be exactly the same team that was tearing Newcastle a new one in the first half. Unless Pienaar Baines Fellaini Mirallas and Osman all lose their heads at once (West Brom) then we're probably going to see the sort of football that we've been seing the last 8 months. In a couple of weeks Gibson and jelavic are then back. Some times I think people on here actually enjoyed the moaning they could get done int hat dark period at the start of last season and secretly hanker for a return to those days.Anichebe will probably start, our game is based on possession football with Baines and Pienaar creating most of our chances often through crosses. failing this our midfield often supplies the goals, due to our lack of pace and preference for not playing on the counter attack, it makes snse to play a big target man up front to hold up the play, bring others in, and get on th end of Baines's crosses. Fellaini was being heralded as some sort of god one arth after his performance against Man Unied int hat exact role, a few weeks later and now apparently he is just a typical Moyes excuse to play hoofball.
Tony J Williams
13 Posted 20/09/2012 at 09:39:04
I would like to see Mirallas in there before Vic, but he is not fully fit yet....However, if you were an outsider looking in, you would say it would be harsh to drop a lad who came on an scored two goals, one incorrectly not given.
Phil Bellis
14 Posted 20/09/2012 at 09:55:47
James,

Jelavic is an intelligent, hard-working forward who drags defenders all over the shop creating space with his movement for Pienaar and Fellaini particularly.

I doubt we have anyone of his calibre who can do a similar role but until Moyes tries Naismith or Mirallas we won't find out if either can deputise.
Steve King
15 Posted 20/09/2012 at 10:14:42
Hard to judge Moyes's thinking by his interview on the OS. I think he's likely to start with Anichebe though... and to be honest I think it'd be a little unfair not to. He did well when he came on against Newcastle.

I reckon that donkey Chico Flores will struggle to contain Anichebe if he puts in a performance like he did the other night. On the other hand, Mirallas up front would scare the shit out of him too!!
Trevor Whyte
16 Posted 20/09/2012 at 10:18:54
#829 Sam Hoare... I'd play a similar team, but I think that's too attacking. People forget Jags can play centre midfield as well. He's looked decent anytime he's come forward this season. So I'd put him in for Osman, as holding midfielder and give Felli more freedom.

Solid back 4 for an away game, and Heitinga has to start playing — it's a joke.
Mike Green
17 Posted 20/09/2012 at 09:23:24
James (#838) — if you swap Jelavic for Anichebe, we are a long way from exactly the same team, that's the point.
Jon Ferguson
18 Posted 20/09/2012 at 10:28:18
I think Moyes is nailed on to play Anichebe. The silver lining is that Anichebe has been going on all summer about being ready to be the main striker, he'll get a few games on the bounce now. He needs to put up or shut up.

Neville will almost certainly start. I'm not all out anti Neville, he had a great game against Man Utd and was nowhere near as bad as some people made out against Newcastle (especially as some were giving Jagielka an 8 (?)). However he is limited and I'd rather he started as few a games as possible.

Moyes made the right decision selling Rodwell, we needed those extra players, it's just annoying that a few games after he's gone we need him!

My team:

Howard
Hibbert Heitinga Distin Baines
Neville Fellaini
Mirallas Naismith Pienaar
Anichebe

Not the strongest 11 we'll put out this season, but strong enough to beat Swansea I feel.

Denis Richardson
19 Posted 20/09/2012 at 10:08:57
Erm James, swapping Jelly for Vic makes a huge difference to our side. The other 10 men may stay the same but Jelavic is light years ahead and in a place Vic cannot even dream to ever get to.

On the face of it, it would be harsh to drop Vic given he got on the score sheet but it was clear that Moyes didn't fancy him up top on his own, as he swapped him onto the right wing after initially starting up top – unless my eyes deceived me on Monday.

Neville will undoubtedly start on Sat, we all pray it will be at RB but know it will be in CM. As for who starts up front, I don't think Moyes will go for Vic tbh, although he may start Vic on the right with Mirallas up top. Either way its a bummer that Jelavic is out although we all knew it would happen at some time. Though I'm confident Mirallas will get on the score sheet a few times, we finally have someone who is looking to shoot from distance at any given opportunity and he looks well up for it. One of them has to fly in at some stage.

My team would be:

Howard
Neville Heitinga Distin Baines
Fellaini Osman
Naismith Pienaar Gueye
Mirallas

Mike Green
20 Posted 20/09/2012 at 10:40:52
Add on to post #851 - Its a bit like "wonderful" and "woeful" are almost exactly the same - but they're not are they.....
Gerry Quinn
21 Posted 20/09/2012 at 10:42:01
Can't we play that goalpost in the middle of the park, in Gibbo's absence?
Kevin Gillen
22 Posted 20/09/2012 at 10:45:55
Everton's team ethic should conquer all. Nobody wants to miss Jelavic but Anichebe deserves to start after scoring twice on Tuesday.
Trevor Lynes
23 Posted 20/09/2012 at 10:49:47
My God... our squad is now 16 what with Jelavic, Gibson and Oviedo not available.... sounds like an Agatha Christie novel. Or the song about green bottles!!

It is fairly laughable in a Black Comedic way that our management continue to play absolute brinkmanship with our depleted squad. Barkley out on loan at just the right time too.

I have written at least three times on the sparsity of our squad. We still have no cover for a number of positions and continue to ask players to play out of position in an attempt to paper over the cracks.

I really cannot believe that fans want European football when our squad is barely big enough to cope with our domestic commitments.

Every season is a soap opera... we loan out shedloads of players and bring in the likes of McFadden, Weir and Hahnemann to the dtriment of the manage'rs transfer budget, if such a thing exists. We have sold Cahill,Yobo, Bily and Rodwell for over £20 million between them and spent less than that on Pienaar (who we already had), Jelavic, Mirallas and someone called Oviedo who we still do not have available to play.

If Jelavic is out for two weeks as has been reported, it means more like a month to have him back match fit.

EFC must be the most exasperating club in the Premier League to support. Manageing the squad must be a nightmare. We assembled a team that is now playing its best and most entertaining football for years, BUT we have no cover good enough to maintain the standard set.

Why was Barkley loaned out with such a small squad to choose from?

Kev Johnson
24 Posted 20/09/2012 at 10:58:37
Much as we all like to play 'Pick The Team', with who's available at the moment I think it's pretty obvious how we'll line up against Swansea - with the team that started the second half on Monday.

Swansea's left back, Taylor, has been one of their best players and is out for the season so it could be a good chance for Mirallas to really impose himself on the right wing. Last season when we beat them at their place, we pressed high up the pitch, so if Vic can really harry their defenders he'll be doing a good job. I'm not confident he can hold the ball up or score again, but if he makes a nuisance of himself it might make some gaps for Pienaar and Osman to exploit.

Jamie Barlow
25 Posted 20/09/2012 at 11:00:33
I'm all for starting Vic against Swansea.

Moyes gets quite a lot of grief for his man management off some on here and with Vic lacking in confidence, he'd be crushed if he didn't start, and rightly so. You don't drop a striker who scored two goals the game before.

He might be a limited striker but if he puts himself about a bit like he did against Newcastle, the goals will come.

Sam Hoare
26 Posted 20/09/2012 at 11:04:47
People on here seeming to think Swansea away will be a walkover. I'm not so sure. Especially without Gibson and Jelavic and a defense that is far from watertight at the moment. I think we will do very well to come away with 3 points as Swansea have been pretty solid except for their last outing.
Andy Crooks
27 Posted 20/09/2012 at 11:09:27
Gavin, # 826, I suspect you may be right. We have played some great football this season but I fear that Moyes is easily spooked. A few injuries could see him return to a more direct safety-first approach. I think it might be a little harsh to drop Vic after his goal but I think, if he starts, our style of play will change.

I'd like to see Jags and Heitinga at centre back with Distin at left back. Baines wide left with Pienaar playing behind Naismith in the centre. No hoofball and continue to surprise the opposition with confident quality football... In my view, the best way to deal with injuries is to take the opportunity to be bold and different.

Ian Bennett
28 Posted 20/09/2012 at 11:35:30
I know he wouldn't play it and it could ruin the Pienaar / Baines powerplay. But I think our side lends itself to 3-5-2 (brackets for the players to come in when fit):

Distin
Heitinga
Jagielka

Baines
Osman
Fellaini (Gibson)
Pienaar
Coleman

Mirallas (Fellaini)
Naismith (Jelavic)

Gavin Ramejkis
29 Posted 20/09/2012 at 11:47:18
James #838 not sure if you were at the Newcastle game the other night or watched it elsewhere but as soon as Anichebe came on the cannonball salvos started, with lots of instances of Fellaini and Anichebe going for the same ball and Fellaini having to take the ball down to himself as Anichebe was nowhere near him for the knockdown, far too similar a route which was as predictable as it was sad.

Countless times before that game, when Moyes has thrown a tall player up front, either on his own or paired with Fellaini just behind, it was the same... so I guess it's not even hindsight of why hoofball? — it's the churning taste of experience.

The killer is that the players we have can and should be playing it on the deck... but will Moyes grow a pair and keep it that way, just shuffling the cards he has?

James Martin
30 Posted 20/09/2012 at 11:50:37
Of course swapping them will make a difference to how we play, but he's hardly in midfield is he, if the rest of the team is the same his presence isn't going to suddenly make the defenders start launching it long whilst they used to pass into the midfield.

Is Jelavic solely responsible for how our midfield plays? No, the link up play may be a bit worse, and so will the finishing but Anichebe's presence is no excuse for the hoofball Gavin was suggesting would occur.
Tony J Williams
31 Posted 20/09/2012 at 12:01:46
Gavin, our worst culprits are Howard and Jags.

First half he was rolling the ball out to the defence or midfield, even with Fellaini up front but in the second half he was simply putting his foot through it.

We have the players to play on the ground tikka tikka stuff but once Howard starts to flap a little... hoof, same with Jags and his "60-yard passes"

Then again, that useless lump upfront doesn't know where to position himself and as you said, how many times were Fellaini and Vic nearly bumping into each other or being on opposing wings?

James Martin
32 Posted 20/09/2012 at 12:15:35
Hardly a fair comparison Gavin, Anichebe is always the sub who comes on in the latter period of the game when it's getting a bit ragged, Jelavic is the beneficiary of all the fresh legs and minds that the start of the game brings.

The football deteriorated as our team did in the second half from back to front; you could have had Jelavic playing there and, apart from not falling over when through on goal, he probably wouldn't have made that much difference.

If the goalkeeper and centrebacks keep launching it long, what can you do? Two goals isn't bad for someone apparently feeding off horrendous build-up play all night.
Mike Green
33 Posted 20/09/2012 at 12:15:00
James #687 - what other skill sets does Victor possess other than having the ball hoofed up to him?

Maybe we could do a slide rule pass, splitting the centre halves in two for him to destroy with his burning pace and smash past the keeper?

Maybe we could let him play triangles with Mirallas on the right, knock it past and let him dribble past two defenders before rifling into the far corner.

Maybe let him loiter on the edge of the box for Baines to pull a cross back from the by-line for him to hit first time into the bottom left.

Maybe lose his man, an overhead cross and a scissor kick!

Or maybe - hit it long and hoof it up to the target as this is all he has in the locker.......?

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Paul David
34 Posted 20/09/2012 at 12:40:40
Mike

It would make sense except Anichebe is shit in the air as well.

Kev Johnson
35 Posted 20/09/2012 at 12:39:55
Yeah, but what if you don't want a silk purse? What if you want a bacon butty?

I see Mirallas and Pienaar as the bread, Osman as the HP sauce (or ketchup, if you prefer) and Vic as the (admittedly poor quality) meat in the middle. Nice one. Yeah, I'll have a cup of Fellaini Tea with that, thanks.

Tony J Williams
36 Posted 20/09/2012 at 12:47:47
Amen Paul, which must be a new season thing, as I remember him winning a lot of headers last year.

I used to comment that Anichebe won more headers within his first minute than Saha did in his 60+ minutes

Mike Green
37 Posted 20/09/2012 at 12:50:17
Paul and Kev - both good points. Maybe a flannel then? A discreet one to go in an overnight washbag? Be quite nice that.....
Alex Buckley
38 Posted 20/09/2012 at 12:45:58

My team:

Howard
Hibbert Heitinga Distin Baines
Fellaini
*Naismith Pienaar Gueye
*Mirallas
Anichebe

*Interchanging

No chance of it happening though!

Ben Jones
39 Posted 20/09/2012 at 12:50:08
I think if you put in Anichebe for Jelavic, it will be like for like, two lone strikers sticking to the last man and trying to link up play.

However, where I disagree with James and agree with the rest, is the quality of play will be worse, as Anichebe isn't the best, especially at holding up play and distribution. He hasn't got a good first touch, and would just wish he would use his strength a lot more.

But... I would start him against Swansea, especially when we're playing away. We played counter attacking against them last time, and I imagine the Swansea defenders would have it hard against a physical player. Anichebe can at least hopefully bully the defenders and give Pienaar, Fellaini and Mirallas space to score.

We're gonna set up similarly against Utd because Swansea are a very good footballing team, so I would've said play Neville as well, but after that performance against Newcastle, NOOOOO WAY. I'd rather Heitinga there.

Paul David
40 Posted 20/09/2012 at 12:51:53
Tony

Anichebe is a shithouse. I noticed last year that he would always stand on the keeper at corners, that's a short-arse's job not a 6ft-2in forward's. If there's a chance he'll get hurt, he'll make sure he's not involved. Against Newcastle he didn't get close to winning a single aerial dual.

Paul David
41 Posted 20/09/2012 at 12:58:51
Personally I would go with Naismith and Mirallas up front. As neither are out-and-out strikers it wouldn't break Moyes's policy of never having 2 strikers on the pitch at the same time unless we're 3 goals down. They can take it in turns to come deep and work the channels. Plus I've not been too impressed by Naismith yet so I want to see what he can do up front.
Nick Entwistle
42 Posted 20/09/2012 at 13:09:08
Tough one, but I'd prefer Mirallas out wide as the threat down both flanks is now greater. Fellaini and junior in the middle, Ossie behind... just can't bring myself to say Victor.

Then again Coleman on the right with Mirallas up front would be fine by me!
Kev Johnson
43 Posted 20/09/2012 at 13:02:36
Mike - rather you than me, mate. I don't fancy rubbing myself down with a pig part. Sorry, just don't fancy it. Maybe the ear could be used to make the wash bag itself? Although it would be quite small, inevitably.

So, er... yeah, Anichebe. He plays against Swansea, bags a goal, then performs reasonably (on and off) until Christmas. Someone who doesn't read ToffeeWeb buys him in the January window for £4.5m (which is subsequently invested in someone a lot better). Result: Vic happy, Moyes happy, us lot happy - everyone bubbling over with happiness.

Come on, it's theoretically possible!

Mike Green
44 Posted 20/09/2012 at 13:14:20
Kev - we could resign Van Der Meyde, make him into the wash bag and use Anichebe as a shaving foam brush. How does that sound...? Maybe still a bit too facial......

Elbow pad for a slightly worn jacket....?

Hmmmm....

Jamie Barlow
45 Posted 20/09/2012 at 13:14:51
I seem to remember a lovely slide rule pass from Donovan to Vic last season that he put away beautifully.

Can't remember who it was against though.

John Talbot
46 Posted 20/09/2012 at 13:13:05
Reading the posts on team choices for the Swansea game, perhaps 3 at the back: Jags Johnny and Distin, and use Baines and Coleman as wing backs, flood the midfield with 2 up top

If Moyes had put Johnny on straight after Vic had scored on Monday I'm sure we would have won.
Mike Green
47 Posted 20/09/2012 at 13:26:16
I remember that! It was against a flat back four of Pamela Anderson, Demi Moore, Jenna Jameson and Kim Basinger. Anichebe knocks it in and runs to the corner flag, Donovan going after him, leaving Pam, Demi, Jenna and Kim looking over to me in the stands. They seem to have singled me out.... they're walking over..... now they're slowly starting to peel off their strips... whats happening..... and who's the ginger haired girl in the technical area......?
Kev Johnson
48 Posted 20/09/2012 at 13:31:39
Mike - that was a dream. It didn't happen. Come on, keep it real - think of some more uses for a sow's ear.

Villa. It was against Villa. I mean the actual goal, not the rest of it. ("Flat" back four - surely not!)

Jamie Tulacz
49 Posted 20/09/2012 at 14:02:12
Mike- that's not a girl, it's Mick Hucknall...
Vijay Badhan
50 Posted 20/09/2012 at 14:40:41
Just our luck. Moyes will be playing Neville and Osman in midfield again even though they have proved how shit they they are time and time again.

I don't see anything that players like them bring to the team, why let a player like Barkley go out on loan when surely even without the experience he offers far more than the likes of Osman and Neville.
Patrick Murphy
51 Posted 20/09/2012 at 15:48:53
Team for TW users
1. Mucha
2. Neville
3. Baines
4. Heitinga
5. Jags
6. Coleman
7. Mirallas
8. Fellaini
9. Duffy
10. Naismith
11. Pienaar

There that should be good enough to take 3 points off any team in the Prem?

Seriously though, I think Moyes (following WBA and Newcastle) will resort to an ultra defensive formation and try to nick a point or 3 on Saturday.

Despite the fans crying out for attacking, adventurist football, his job is to garner as many points as possible and that's why he'll go cautious.

Another thing to note is that our last 5 or 6 away games are at notoriously bad grounds for us including OT, Emirates, Anfield etc.

Therefore we need as many points as possible this side of Christmas. I hope I'm not being too negative, but remember this is Everton.

Paul Gladwell
52 Posted 20/09/2012 at 18:47:03
Thats a poor side that Patrick, the keeper is worse than Howad, Neville does not deserve to be ahead of Hibbert at right back and Jags deserves dropping instead of Distin, plus Coleman is not as good as Osman whatsoever.
We were superb in that first half the other night as good as we have seen for how long, so I think certain players deserve the benefit of the doubt for now, although Howard would have to have one leg before I played a baldy Jason Kearton.
Ian Bennett
53 Posted 20/09/2012 at 19:09:47
John (#892) – we are on the same page; see above.
John Crook
54 Posted 20/09/2012 at 21:30:49
My team for Saturday:

GK Howard
RB Hibbert
LB Baines
CD Jagielka
CD Heitinga
CM Osman
CM Fellaini
RM Mirallas
LM Pienaar
ACM Naismith
CF Anichebe

Subs: Mucha, Distin, Neville, Oviedo, Coleman, Gueye & Vellios.

Stephen Kenny
55 Posted 20/09/2012 at 22:01:04
I'd rather we lost players now through injury than later, when it's more important. We missed out on that Belgian lad and it's come back to haunt us.

We could have done with Junior being around the first 11 — he was doing well pre-season... is he injured?
Charles McCann
56 Posted 21/09/2012 at 08:08:35
Good team there John. I agree with your central defensive pairing and also dropping Neville has to happen. The player I would worry most about in that team is Howard. He is too unreliable and in the longer term needs to be replaced. If we are chasing a goal later in the game then I would bring on Coleman for Hibbert.

The most important thing is that Neville does not play centre midfield. Most people posting on ToffeeWeb can see it.... why can't Moyes?!

Joe Clitherow
57 Posted 21/09/2012 at 09:07:34
Wigan 6th Oct is an away game not a home game
Nathan Jones
58 Posted 21/09/2012 at 12:02:43
Hmmm, I actually hope Anichebe starts, for all his faults, I think there is a player in there. I think that just because he has been around for so long we forget how young he is. His attitude has improved, his goal (s) on Monday were great center forward play. Maybe this is his time .....
Sam Jennings
59 Posted 21/09/2012 at 12:53:51
Kev Johnson (#888) — Absolute dream scenario!
Kev Johnson
60 Posted 21/09/2012 at 13:35:47
Yup, dream scenario. And why not? Here on TW we spend a lot of time entertaining nightmare scenarios - it's only a question of time until Jags scores a hat trick of own goals, Baines goes to Real Madrid, the club go into administration, etc, etc - so I thought it would make a change to imagine the best possible outcome.

As Harry Catterick once sang: "Dreams can come true". No, wait a minute, it was that one-eyed 90s pop dingbat, Gabrielle.

Tom Bowers
61 Posted 21/09/2012 at 19:35:55
We all know Moyes well enough by now. He cannot see what most of the fans see. The likes of Neville and the Osman will always weasel their way onto the teamsheet no matter what and Everton will continue to live in the shadows, just now and again promising but not delivering.

Now that Jelavic is out, Mirallas will have to put up with Big Vic who is unlikely to be consistent enough to impress, despite the nice goal against the Barcodes.

Everton should have buried the Barcodes but sputtered enough after the first 20 minutes to give everyone cause for concern — just like the Albion game. It seemed to be deja vu as Gibson left that game and then Jelavic had problems in the Barcode game which seemed to affect their momentum, allowing the opposition to get their game together.

Having said that, the Blues just blew it away at the end with poor defence and I blame Moyes and Neville for not getting all the team behind the ball for 2 lousy minutes after going ahead.
Mike Allison
62 Posted 21/09/2012 at 23:31:20
"He cannot see what most of the fans see."

Thank fuck for that, as most of the fans are idiots. There are loads of managers in football who are lucky to be there, and in fact are clearly there simply on their reputations as players. Many an educated and intelligent fan could replace them and improve on their performance (if they could get over the man management barrier of controlling similarly stupid players). Moyes, however, is one of the few who do not fall into this category.

Of course he's frustrating, and he doesn't always do what I'd do if I got the chance to make his decisions, but over a period of time he's proved himself to be consistently competent in his job (at the very least). The ridiculous overreactions to Monday night's result, which was down to totally inept officiating far more than it was anything else, is clear evidence of this.

We basically won a game 4-2, outplayed a very good opposition (who were able to bring on an absolutely top class striker at half time) and deserved to go 3rd in the league (only behind Man United on goal difference) yet somehow as a result of this Moyes is clueless and three of his players are totally shit and we need to never play them again to stand any chance of a result.

The seemingly received wisdom on Toffeeweb following last Monday is crazy. Whilst Neville and Osman isn't exactly my idea of a dream combo, they were the central midfield partnership that absolutely dominated Newcastle's in the first half. They won the ball regularly and used it simply but wisely, with Osman (as ever) providing movement and intelligence in possession combined with work rate in defence, and Neville (as ever) providing the tactical intelligence and protection his two centre backs need in defence, as well as a recognition of his deficiencies and willingness to keep things simple and retain the ball when in possession.

Anichebe seems to be unforgivable in the minds of many for having 'bad body language', a minor dispute with the manager (which he clearly backed down from), and earning £30k a week. He came on, ran his arse off, scored two goals including a last minute winner out of nothing, yet somehow, because he's still guilty of not being Nikica Jelavic, he's shit. Osman had a generally good game, but he gave the ball away that led to a goal and that seems to completely wipe out the other 94:58 of the game in the minds of the fans.

So yeah, whilst I'd love a seat next to Davey to whisper sweet attacking ideas in his ear, I'm hugely thankful that we have a manager like him. Neville and Osman don't 'weasel' their way in, they get in our (weakened) team because of extremely important footballing qualities that I'm afraid if you can't see them, you don't really know as much about football as you think you do, you just know what to say to appeal to the lowest common denominator in a crowd (albeit a virtual one on here) and bluff your way through a conversation.

Julian Batti
63 Posted 21/09/2012 at 23:53:02
"Thank fuck for that, as most of the fans are idiots."

Interesting thought, Mike. But I think it would be unwise to denigrate the intelligence of the fans. Most of us are active in the working life and we have seen a great deal of "the ways of the world." I do not believe that you have to be a genius in order to manage a football team. Please do also keep in mind that athletes are not brightest people around. Did you ever feel enligtened by the comments of Sky's panel of experts? Do they ever say something that you did not already know? All you ever get is frivolities thrown in your face. Why are people so impressed with someone like Mourinho? Never did a single clever sentence come out of his mouth; all I ever saw was an arrogant little princess telling the world how unique she is.

As far as I can see, Moyes is a great motivator, but a tactical genius he is not. He is capable of setting the agenda, but he is at a loss as soon as a counter-move has been made. I believe that a time will come when you will have football coaches with little or no background as professional footballers.

By the way, I think Duncan Ferguson is going to be excellent manager. Having read some interviews with him, he strikes me as a very reflective man who knows a thing or two about human nature. Add to this the number of top coaches he has played under. Something good is sure come out of it.

Ciarán McGlone
64 Posted 22/09/2012 at 00:32:09
Mike,

Most of our domination against Newcastle came down both flanks. To imply that Neville was somehow instrumental in this quality play is waffle.

Martin Mason
65 Posted 22/09/2012 at 04:35:59
Mike Allison@171

How right you are. That's why fans don't run football clubs

Mike Green
66 Posted 22/09/2012 at 06:03:42
Mike Allison #171 - 'Thank fuck for that, as most of the fans are idiots.'

Martin Mason #179 - 'How right you are. That's why fans don't run football clubs.'

HMS Arrogance had been moored, unloaded, in Humanity for two full days. Her scrubbed decks soaked up the greeting rays of dawn and returned them, beaming, through shiny porthole quarters, clean, re-stocked and dressed, fit and ready to sail from port that morning. High in the masts above Humanity two monkeys sat, meticulously picking fleas from each others fur as the sailors returned, satiated and brimming with raucous stories from the night before, loaded with memories retained to keep their humour high as they sailed to their next port of call, Humility.

Full of spirit, the crew were good, and strong but all wore a veil of trepidation, for they knew the forthcoming journey would be arduous, and long, and some may never disembark to experience the treasures of the next port of call.

High above them the monkeys disengaged and scrabbled down the masts to see what bounty the crew had relieved from port.

'Oh, for God's sake,' one sailor was heard to have said to another 'hasn't someone kicked those fuckers off?!'

The crew smiled to each other, allowing the monkeys to jump on their shoulders as the anchor raised and the vessel set sail to the sunset. In hope.

Derek Thomas
67 Posted 22/09/2012 at 07:05:47
Mike Allison #171: So ' most fans are idiots ' self praise is no recommendation Mike.... and the other old chestnut ' Thats why fans don't run football clubs'... any facts to back these 2 little gems up??

I was going to list some of what it takes to be a good coach, but didn't bother because I forgot ' being a fan ' automatically barrs me from having any football knowlwdge and /or running a Club on or off the field.

Despite having been a player with medals and cups, player/coach where just staying up was a result, a club Secretary dealing with both the LCFA and the Lancs FA, Fitness trainer, Coach with cups and medals.

And I know that all the usual smart arses will say that it's the Prem we're talking about here not your low level.

But.

Football is a simple game for boys, played by men, for a kings ransom, made complicated by bullshitters. There are some things you do do, somethings you don't do.

All this is opinion, just like ' fans shouldn't run football clubs '.

Where does that leave Bill in the great scheme of things then?

Mike Green
68 Posted 22/09/2012 at 08:14:25
Captain Bill boarded the ship, causing the two monkeys to scurry into a corner, giggling like schoolgirls.
Derek Thomas
69 Posted 22/09/2012 at 08:13:48
Mike Green; As one organ Grinder to another, well said.
Mike Green
70 Posted 22/09/2012 at 08:29:25
Thank you Derek, on reflection the ship should probably be HMS Humanity and the first port of call Arrogance, but I think you got the gist. Here's to today's match and hopefully 3 points. COYB!
Mike Allison
71 Posted 22/09/2012 at 09:18:38
Julian, you seem to be arguing against me by repeating and expanding on the point I made in my first paragraph.

Ciaran, to deny the part Phil Neville played in the first half is as pure an example of fitting the evidence to fit your opinion as you're ever likely to find. I know he's not Carlos Valderrama or Xavi Hernandez, but he just sits in the right position, picking up loose balls, blocking angles for opposition passes, tracking runs, filling in for other players who go forward and the other little things players in that role need to do to allow a team to be effective. I'm would have thought you'd pride yourself on being aware of that sort of thing where many fans don't seem to be. He doesn't do massive amounts in possession, but he did shift the ball nicely from side to side a couple of times to keep Newcastle stretched and mean there were spaces for our better players to work with in attack.

Mike, I enjoyed your metaphor, but I didn't understand it. I'm not sure what I said that was arrogant, I simply pointed out that I think most fans are idiots. Toffeeweb generally has a far higher standard of contribution than most websites, and you get plenty of absolute nonsense on here. Other sites are far worse, and the fans who still aren't internet literate come out with far worse, you only have to listen to some of chants to get an idea of who's out there under the banner of being a 'football fan'. Maybe I'd be proved wrong on the use of the word 'most', but I doubt out.

Derek, for starters, you say "but didn't bother because I forgot ' being a fan ' automatically barrs me from having any football knowlwdge and /or running a Club on or off the field." They call that a straw man argument. You're putting words in my mouth that I simply didn't say, because it makes you look better. If I'd said that being a fan bars you from having any football knowledge I'd be a prime example of an idiot wouldn't. Good job I didn't say it then hey? However, I don't really want to argue with you, mostly on the grounds that you seem so sensitive I don't want to upset you. I'll stand by the phrase that 'most football fans are idiots', but let's just agree that you're in the (up to) 49% of them who aren't until you give us more evidence to the contrary.

Did anyone except Ciaran actually read past the first line?! Or did you get so angry your fingers leapt to the keyboard immediately? There's a bit where I defend Victor Anichebe.

Martin Mason
72 Posted 22/09/2012 at 09:43:21
Derek, it isn't that is why ' fans shouldn't run football clubs, it's "That's why fans don't run football clubs".
Martin Mason
73 Posted 22/09/2012 at 09:49:01
They do serve a very useful purpose though because while they don't run football clubs they are always there to tell the board and management how it should be run and coached. Bless 'em.
Derek Thomas
74 Posted 22/09/2012 at 09:59:33
There's those who agree with Mike and Martin and those who don't...I don't.

Well done Martin you're now in a majority of 2 instead of 1, keep at it in another 3mths it might be 4, then 8 and in a year there might be 16 of you

Derek Thomas
75 Posted 22/09/2012 at 10:10:45
Although 1 to 2 could be an arithmetical progression, so this time next year it might only be 7, No geometrical progression for you...shame, bless im.
Mike Green
76 Posted 22/09/2012 at 10:21:27
It's an interesting point Mike, we must move in different circles. I don't know many idiots, but in my experience when I come across them and move onto football they generally look blank and inform me that 'they don't like football'. If I rack my brains I do know one idiot who likes football (Paul), but he's an idiot in a very endearing way, and altogether a very decent human being too so I'm not sure he counts really.
Martin Mason
77 Posted 22/09/2012 at 10:23:37
Derek

I would never claim to be in a majority on this board because it is a board where critics voice their opinion. I wouldn't be surpised though if I were in the majority even here because the majority tends to be silent and only the extremes being noisy. I'm very much in a majority of EFC fans though I'd say?

I like this board though because others are just echo chambers where only the devoted come to pray, I do like to see opposing views. Even though I often defend the board I do recognise that they are only human and are guilty of often serious errors.

Ciarán McGlone
78 Posted 22/09/2012 at 13:02:18
Mike,

I'm quite aware of the importance of work done off the ball.. however, you're over egging the pudding.

In Newcastle game Neville didn't move into space, didn't close down... and never wanted the ball.


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