Barkley off for a month with Leeds

, 11 January, 87comments  |  Jump to most recent
Youngster to get more games in the Championship
The next stage of Ross Barkley's development plan has been decided with a month-long loan to Leeds United, Yorkshire rivals of Sheffield Wednesday, where the Everton youngster spent the first half of the season on loan with David Jones's side.

David Moyes spoke of the move in his pre-match press conference: "Similar to Leon Osman [who] had spells at Carlisle and Derby on loan, Ross has had a spell at Sheffield Wednesday and I said a month or two ago if I couldn't get him enough football, I want to keep his development going.

"As a young boy he didn't play because he had quite a few injuries; a triple leg break, he had a double hernia when he was younger so he missed quite a lot of football so he's the sort of boy I want to get games.

"I just don't think he's quite ready for us to be a regular in the first team here just now so if I can send him out and get the games, hopefully he comes back better and ready to play."

Wednesday had been pondering an attempt to bring the 19-year-old Everton midfield player back to Hillsborough after his successful stay with them.

Barkley will be with Leeds initially until February 12; they play Barnsley at Oakwell tomorrow and the Owls at Elland Road on April 13.

He was in the Wednesday side when they gave one of their best performances of the season, against Leeds on October 19. He was recalled by Everton in November after spending two months at Hillsborough to provide midfield cover when Neville and Gibson were out injured.

Leeds manager Neil Warnock said today: “I'm absolutely delighted to get Ross. He had four clubs after him, so I'm delighted he has come to us.

“I've wanted him for a long time. I remember watching him play for Everton against QPR in the Premier League.

“He has a great attitude and I have no doubt he will end up a top player.

“The deal works well for both parties as he will get experience here and he's a great addition to our squad.”

Quotes or other material sourced from Sheffield Star



Reader Comments (87)

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Jamie Barlow
1 Posted 11/01/2013 at 12:13:14
Ross Barkley has joined Leeds on a months loan.
Tony J Williams
2 Posted 11/01/2013 at 12:15:54
Good move for Barkley that, pushing for promotion. Just keep him away from that scumbag Diouff.
Denis Richardson
3 Posted 11/01/2013 at 12:47:03
Good that Barkley has been put out on loan, would have allowed him to go there for the whole season myself (with right to recall if necessary). Hopefully he can get the same plaudits he was getting at Wednesday and come back a better player in the summer.
Tony J Williams
4 Posted 11/01/2013 at 15:21:27
If he's not getting enough game time with us, it's best he is loaned out. Good team to go to too, fighting for promotion and a good following.
James Flynn
5 Posted 11/01/2013 at 15:33:47
What about Warnock? Good manager for Ross to play for?
David Booth
6 Posted 11/01/2013 at 15:31:16
I think it's madness. He appears to have so much potential.

Like Warnock, I remember the QPR game too and Barkley was the only player that stood out in a totally inept Everton performance.

How on earth can the likes of Gueye consistently get games ahead of him?

We have an absolute bare bones of a midfield and alongside Pienaar and Osman, Ross would learn his trade far better than running round with the likes of Diouff and the rest of those vile Leeds cloggers?

Tony J Williams
7 Posted 11/01/2013 at 15:39:57
"How on earth can the likes of Gueye consistently get games ahead of him?" - They have played the same amount of league games - 2.

Moyes obviously sees something in Ross, so wants him to get playing time...he's obviously not arsed about Marvin.

Best that he actually plays than sitting on a bench watching everyone else ply their trade.

Mike Powell
8 Posted 11/01/2013 at 15:50:19
This is good news for both us and Ross. He will be getting game time and he won't be worried about making them stupid mistakes he makes. Any mistake in the Prem is costly — he can get away with it in the Championship; hopefully it will bring him on.
Michael Kenrick
9 Posted 11/01/2013 at 15:57:55
Mike, if that were true (which it isn't) it's hardly going to help him eradicate mistakes... assuming he really makes that many compared to other players.

I think he would have been far better served if Moyes had shown a lot more confidence in him and played him a lot more in the Prem. His development would be more advanced and we'd be benefiting now from his undoubted creativity and skill.

James Morgan
10 Posted 11/01/2013 at 15:59:53
Mike, maybe we can loan out Tim Howard then.
Steve King
11 Posted 11/01/2013 at 16:02:47
Mike - I think the idea is that if he goes to Leeds and makes those mistakes then he will learn from them at Leeds' cost not ours, rather than him getting away with it in the championship.
Brian Harrison
12 Posted 11/01/2013 at 16:02:53
The kid is nowhere near ready to play in Everton's first team, the bench is about as close as he is going to get this season so makes perfect sense to loan him out.

He has to mature mentally to play in central midfield, the games he has come on this season he has been poor. Yes he has potential but that's all and there are hundreds of lads that show potential at his age that goes unfulfilled.

I am sure David Moyes knows better than anyone what is best for the lad, certainly Leon Osman improved as a player from his loan spell and he was a lot older than Barkley when he went on loan. Also Ferguson did the same to Beckham so it is no sleight on Barkley to be loaned out.

Kieran Fitzgerald
13 Posted 11/01/2013 at 16:34:51
Game time is the only thing that will bring Barkley on. I agree with Michael K that it should be premiership level if he really is the talent we hope he is. Failing that though, send him somewhere that he will get a decent run. A month is too short in my view. Send him out for the rest of the season with an option to recall him.

Steve K, good point about him making the mistakes somewhere else. I do think Warnock is the right manager for him in this regard and I think that he will get well looked after under Warnock.

Steavey Buckley
14 Posted 11/01/2013 at 16:42:02
It is just further indictment of the limitation of academy football which is not preparing Everton's youth for first team action but the lower leagues if lucky. Although Barkley joining Leeds on loan is a step in the right direction.
David Booth
15 Posted 11/01/2013 at 16:42:30
What 'stupid mistakes'?

He made a poor pass against Blackburn in the second game of LAST season.

Is that going to be brought up every time his name is mentioned?

Every other player has made many more in the time between then and now.

That is as ridiculous an observation as all those who proclaimed that Coleman couldn't play full-back... despite the fact he'd only played there for Everton once (and had a blinder against Spurs!).

It's a wonder Barkley has any confidence left if he reads unfounded remarks like that.

He's looked great to me every time: instinctive, confident, an eye for a pass, will take a man on and knows where the goal is.

This myth about him being mistake-ridden is ridiculous.

And Tony Williams (979), Gueye has made a total of 14 appearances plus 23 as sub, compared to Barkley's 4 and 8. How the hell has he done that? He even got on the pitch for the FA Cup tie at Cheltenham and Barkley didn't even make the bench.

It's ludicrous. We have a lad with what appears to be real talent and potential and he can't get near the team. Well, not ours anyway.

Sam Hoare
16 Posted 11/01/2013 at 17:00:20
Whats ludicrous is people demanding that a pretty much untested 19 year old be thrust into our first team when we are doing pretty well without him and cannot afford to lose any points for the sake of training up the youth.

The championship is a good level and if he is starting week in week out for Leeds in their promotion push then he will learn far more there than he will getting 5 minutes here and there for us. He is not yet good enough to merit a starting place at Everton but hopefully he soon will be.

Good luck at Leeds Ross, get your head down, do well and prove that you deserve your place in the Everton team.

David Barks
17 Posted 11/01/2013 at 17:04:02
David Booth,

In his appearance against Chelsea he gave the ball away numerous times, took a very ill conceived shot from distance in the final minutes that just killed off time for Chelsea when we had everyone forward. And one of his bad giveaways against Chelsea directly led to a 3 on 1 against us that if it wasn't for Torres would have put the game away for Chelsea, but Howard came up with a great save.

Tony J Williams
18 Posted 11/01/2013 at 17:06:48
David, I am talking about this season only. Keeping it relevant and all that!

I can think of a few current mistakes in the Chelsea game...that wasn't last season.

In my opinion as an avid and illogical fan, he simply isn't ready to be playing central midfield in an Europe chasing Premier League football team at the moment. Hopefully he can break his way into the team.

Experience is the key, get games under his belt. Who is is supposed to replace in our team at the moment?

Michael, I wish there was a Premier League team who would take him on loan, I would think if one asked, he would jump at the chance and Everton would have probably obliged.

David Booth
19 Posted 11/01/2013 at 17:10:16
David (999) and everyone else was a perfect 10 and never did anything like that?

Glass half empty for you. Half full for me, thankfully.

And Sam (998), I am not 'demanding' he be 'thrust' into our team; just that he be given a chance every now and again, ahead of others like the wholly inept Gueye, who has had more than enough opportunities to impress, never done so, yet still gets on the pitch.

David Booth
20 Posted 11/01/2013 at 17:14:24
OMG Tony: Barkley makes a mistake or two... hold the back page!

And no, just this season is NOT relevant. If it was, then by that criteria, Barkey's 'mistake' against Blackburn, LAST season, would be totally irrelevant!

Gueye far outweighs him in terms of appearances, substitute appearances and time on the bench.

How do you justify that... and all that...?

David Barks
21 Posted 11/01/2013 at 17:17:41
David Booth,

Never said everyone else was a perfect 10. He's young and is very liable to make costly mistakes, so we're loaning him out to get valuable playing time in a league where those mistakes won't punish us. He'll learn, he'll improve, he'll come back a better player for us. It's really that simple.

Sam Hoare
22 Posted 11/01/2013 at 17:20:21
David Booth

I don't disagree that Barkley deserves a chance as much as Gueye though unless you work at Everton I imagine like me you have no idea what they show in training every week.

I do disagree about the loan being bad. Simply put he's not good enough to start for us and would therefore be better served starting for a club in the championship at this young age.

Tony J Williams
23 Posted 11/01/2013 at 17:21:29
David, I am talking about the season we are in at the moment and Marvin has had the same amount of appearances at Barkley. If you want to dismiss last seasons mis-hap, then I will dismiss last seasons appearances. Fairs fair.

It's not just about the mistakes though is it? He doesn't look good enough yet. It's that simple.

I ask again, whose place do you believe he should take from the current side?

Aidy Dews
24 Posted 11/01/2013 at 17:42:52
Think this will be a good move for Barkley. Especially to work with Warnock, he did wonders with Taarabt at QPR.

He was a bit of a maverick, someone with bags of potential and skill but Warnock disciplined his game and rounded him off into a good player. Although Barkley isn't exactly a maverick, he's got bags of potential and skill and I'm sure Warnock will bring him on nicely for us!

And are Leeds playing at Barnsley this weekend and is Barkley able to play? If so I might make a trip down to watch him with me being in the next village!

David Booth
25 Posted 11/01/2013 at 17:46:27
Tony: I'm not suggesting he takes anyone's place - just that he is given a place every now and again when it become available.

Instead of being last in line on the bench, or, as at Cheltenham, not even on it.

Ian Smitham
26 Posted 11/01/2013 at 17:46:56
David Booth #977, have you a particular problem with Leeds United and why?
Brian Waring
27 Posted 11/01/2013 at 17:54:17
So, if he's not yet ready to play for us, then why the fuck did Moyes bring him back from his loan spell at Sheff Wed, where he was getting game time and playing well? Please don't say it was because we had an injury crisis, because we still have injuries.The lad couldn't even get a game against Cheltenham.
Colin Potter
28 Posted 11/01/2013 at 18:09:05
Because Brian Moyes is bleeding clueless
Jay Harris
29 Posted 11/01/2013 at 18:17:07
I think the real problem is that there is a chasm between reserve football and the Premiership and it can be damaging to bring a top young talent into the Prem and get his confidence destroyed.

IMO Moyes is right to loan him out but wrong not to give him some game time against the likes of Cheltenham and in some of the easier games when we are well on top.

At some stage he will need to get used to his team mates and Everton's play.

Phil Roberts
30 Posted 11/01/2013 at 18:23:28
Colin #024 - totally agree Brian Moyes is clueless. Thank goodness we have David Moyes as our manager because he knows what he is doing.
David Barks
31 Posted 11/01/2013 at 18:25:47
yeah, Moyes is clueless. Somehow has us 3 points off 3rd but he just doesn't have a clue how to manage. That's it. He did get brought back because of injuries, Gibson, Neville, Mirallas and Fellaini suspended. Now, the only one out of that group is Gibson, with Hitz extending his stay. That's why he's going back out on loan.
David Booth
32 Posted 11/01/2013 at 18:30:31
Mr Smitham: you know very well I have!
Nick Entwistle
33 Posted 11/01/2013 at 18:30:51
Could it be we can only put the Rooney saga behind us when a player as good as him comes through the ranks? Even if there's two or three more seasons to wait, it wouldn't be an unfamiliar age to make his mark.

As for the Leeds boss, a great man manager. Good place to be.

Ian Bennett
34 Posted 11/01/2013 at 19:03:49
Could we not lend them garbutt, or would that be taking the piss?
Mike Green
35 Posted 11/01/2013 at 19:06:55
Warnock's a thug who sets his teams up to play like thugs. Barkley will only come back from Yorkshire a bit nastier and tight enough to squeak when he walks.
Andy Crooks
36 Posted 11/01/2013 at 19:15:04
If Sterling was an Everton player I suspect he'd be on loan now. In my view, a run of games would have made Barkley a top player. Same goes for Duffy. Moyes has favourites and it's a serious flaw.
Matt Traynor
37 Posted 11/01/2013 at 19:26:20
Andy #045, I think that's a bit of a stretch isn't it? Liverpool's track record of youth production is as abysmal as ours is in recent years, in fact probably worse.

Many of those youngsters they're playing now didn't come up through their ranks, but were acquired, and also with a change of manager who's moved a lot of players on, brought in some that haven't worked, he's had little option.

Also, Sterling has been pretty impressive from the off. Something that Barkley hasn't shown. Duffy is unfortunate because there's usually been 2 out of our 3 established CBs in decent form, and I think one time when Duffy may have got a look in, he wasn't fit. (Could be wrong on that).

Andy Crooks
38 Posted 11/01/2013 at 19:25:26
Absolutely right, Mike. Warnock is a bully and I cannot see Ross learning anything of Premier League quality from him.This loan is ridiculous. Moyes doesn't like Barkley and he will never have a career at Everton. Moyes seems unable to manage players he doesn't like. Another flaw. By the way, I do see his good points.
Kevin Hudson
39 Posted 11/01/2013 at 19:30:31
A promising player...possibly; albeit one who is developmentally delayed due to the sheer number of terrible injuries he's suffered.

I wholeheartedly back Moyes on this one.

Mick MacManus
40 Posted 11/01/2013 at 19:13:01
Bang on Sam (998). Giving him a run every now and then David wont bring him on half as much. He needs regular game time week in week out and hopefully that is exactly what he gets at Leeds. You can't beat experience like that and it will stand to him if he is indeed as good as people say.
Ste Henderson
41 Posted 11/01/2013 at 19:19:55
I think the fact we have loaned him out without bringing in another midfielder is a mistake. I thought last season, especially pre-season, he looked brilliant. I can't belive he didn't get a game in the FA Cup, but it's Moyes FC — he calls the shots.
Ian Bennett
42 Posted 11/01/2013 at 19:38:03
Matt 048 - think you're right. Plus breaking in as goal keeper, centre half or centre midfield at a young age is tough. Pacy full back, winger or striker are not quite the same risk.

Sterling also cost a fair few bob - how much?

Barry Rathbone
43 Posted 11/01/2013 at 19:24:27
Brian Moyes!! ..

.. the mystery of the 20 odd million "other operating costs" revealed.

First his dad and bro on the payroll now illegitimate progeny from christ knows where skimming the lawn mower cash.

No wonder he's holding out for more loot, bet he's supporting half of scotland the depraved stud muffin.

Jamie Barlow
44 Posted 11/01/2013 at 19:38:46
I agree with Mike, but I don't think it's a bad thing if he comes back a bit nastier. He doesn't like a tackle at the moment. He will when he comes back.
Mike Green
45 Posted 11/01/2013 at 19:54:21
If he's got any tackle left Jamie. Strange lot over there....
Si Cooper
46 Posted 11/01/2013 at 20:28:06
"gave the ball away numerous times", "is very liable to make costly mistakes" and "doesn't like a tackle" are the sort of over the top and frankly unfair comments that this lad seems to attract at the moment. I am not sure what people expect from a young creative midfielder being thrust into the maelstrom of Premier League games intermittently.

However, I take the point he has much to learn and is highly unlikely to be getting significant game time for us any time soon, so I am at least relieved that he isn't just being sent back to Sheffield Wednesday for another dose of whatever it was that failed to change the manager's point of view on his return. Breaking into the Leeds starting line-up will be difficult for him to do and so if he manages it he will have shown Warnock he has something about him.

I would imagine the loan is only for a month initially because he may end up not getting regular games at Leeds and so a rethink may be required. In line with that, Warnock could be given the option of extending the loan if things are going well.

Matt Traynor
47 Posted 11/01/2013 at 20:56:32
Si #065, fair comment, but I think it's also fair to say that if the young Ross had had the same sort of impact that Rooney had for us (initially) or even Sterling over the park, seeing as he was mentioned, then he'd have been given more chances than he's had. He's had the bad leg break, and some players just break out later than others. Look at our own Leon Osman - didn't make his first team debut for us till he was 23, if I'm not mistaken, after injury-interrupted development.
Ian Bennett
48 Posted 11/01/2013 at 20:59:02
I want him to succeed, I really do, but he is not ready and would be far better playing a full 90 minutes in the championship. As would Duffy.

Not getting on in the cup was odd, but playing 90 minutes is far better than nothing or next to nothing. Getting experience, is key to still being on the books in a couple of years time and being established. Barca and Madrid loan out their kids all the time.

Tom Bowers
49 Posted 11/01/2013 at 21:30:24
It is obvious to Moyes that Barklay is not yet up to first team standard.
Question? How does he substantiate all the mediocre players he has signed and given extended runs to in the team over the last 10 years?
Many fans believe that the lad hasn't yet been given a fair crack but he has been a regular with the under 21's so why hasn't he progressed under Moyes?
It may well be Everton don't need him yet but we cannot afford any new players and with injury prone players like Gibson and Miralles I would have thought they would need all the squad players that we have instead of sending the lad out again. What's he going to learn fom the likes of Brown at Leeds?
Si Cooper
50 Posted 11/01/2013 at 21:25:03
Matt, someone else has already mentioned that the central midfield role can be a bit more exposed than either a striker or a winger, and you don't get the same number of 19 year olds (or even younger) in the centre as you do in the attacking positions, so it is apples and oranges for me I am afraid.

Rooney is simply exceptional in any case, and young Rahman makes plenty of mistakes (though they tend to be in areas where they are not easily latched onto for a counter attack) but terrifies defenders with his ability to run with the ball at pace.

What saddens me is that people can watch our team and apparently not notice how often the rest of our midfield players misplace passes or are dispossessed too easily. Ross Barkley may not be ready yet, but that doesn't change the fact that people are being too critical and selective, magnifying his errors unreasonably whilst ignoring those made by others.

Ian Bennett
51 Posted 11/01/2013 at 21:45:08
Tom I like to think sending him on loan is an investment.

Osman could have been kept on the books when Moyes first took over when the squad was painfully thin. If he hadn't if gone on loan to Carlisle or derby would he have made it with us? Playing is key in my mind.

Si Cooper
52 Posted 11/01/2013 at 21:41:10
Ian (#068) - the Barcelona and Real Madrid comparison is not a like for like situation though is it?

They have top quality sides with top quality players on the bench, and probably another dozen top quality players backing them up. Saying we should copy what they do (or the likes of Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal) ignores the fact that they have a much greater pool of talent to choose from and can easily afford to develop their young players at their own pace. The next 'Messi' can be playing wherever whist the real one is strutting his stuff, whilst we are a small run of injuries from being chucking the youngsters into the fray and hoping they come good quickly.

Derek Thomas
53 Posted 11/01/2013 at 21:46:04
Ian Bennet#068 maybe he didn't want to risk cuptieing him for his loan club.

Warnock might or might not be a thug but he and Leeds will be different then Jones and Wed, all grist to the educational mill and if he comes back with a ' bit more Kirkdale and a little less Birkdale ' will that be the end of the world.

Si Cooper
54 Posted 11/01/2013 at 21:59:24
Ian (#076) - the answer is yes, he would..... or no' he wouldn't...... or to be more accurate; nobody knew then, nobody knows now, and nobody ever will!

That is anecdotal evidence and therefore completely worthless.

Matt Traynor
55 Posted 11/01/2013 at 22:12:42
Si #074, I agree with you. If you're ever not at the game or on a live stream, drop into the live forum here on TW. In amongst the pseudo porn discussion, you'll get a running commentary that can be best described as, critical? All in good banter of course...

But the other side of the coin is, I've seen nothing yet from Moyes that says he's preparing to throw in the towel on Ross. Just my postulating, but I felt that he did give up on Rodwell a good 18 months or so ago, the time when he maybe was fit (in Rodwell terms), but couldn't make the subs bench?

Brendan McLaughlin
56 Posted 11/01/2013 at 22:09:40
Si #079
If you reduce it to that what is the point of even offering an opinion on Toffeeweb?
Steven Telford
57 Posted 11/01/2013 at 22:08:36
Barry Rathbone #057
Is it a sign of desperation that your running low on footballing reasons to criticism him for, such that you have to now insinuate he is practically a thief. Now that IS desperation………
Ok, so you don’t like Moyes, but with those comments you now began to stoop a bit to low don’t you think? Honestly, when you start to poses accusations like that, does it not tell you something about yourself?
Barry Rathbone
58 Posted 11/01/2013 at 22:43:36
Steven are you being serious?
Jamie Barlow
59 Posted 11/01/2013 at 21:58:58
Si, I've watched him play for Everton and Sheff Wed and he doesn't like a tackle. I don't think that's being unfair, it's just what I've seen. Maybe it has something to do with his leg break (I don't know if he did it during a tackle) or not.

And I don't expect anything from him playing in the Premier league because I don't think he's ready yet, that's why I'm glad he's going out on loan.

Ian Bennett
60 Posted 11/01/2013 at 22:46:25
Si 77 - if they aren't going to play regularly it makes no difference if you are real or reading. They are not developing whilst they are sat in the stands, stood in stiffs or sat getting splinters.

I never understand why clubs pay millions to buy talent, pay them millions in wages, and then play them in front of one man and a gig in meaningless matches.

Si 79 - miserable sod.

Ian Bennett
61 Posted 11/01/2013 at 22:58:00
Matt 83 - interesting view on Rodwell.

Not sure I agree although I did want him to succeed and be that high power energetic box to box player, our gerrard if you will. 8 hamstring injuries, yes 8, perhaps explains why he never did that, and perhaps never will. The united goal being the false promise.

Si Cooper
62 Posted 11/01/2013 at 22:43:22
Brendan (#084), the problem is people are offering up these examples as if they back-up their own point of view.

They don't; it is actually their opinions that are formed by such examples and people should stick to saying just that. Asking a question that is not rhetorical as if it were makes it seem as though people believe they are dealing with something that is proof when it lies firmly in the realm of conjecture.

I was on an earlier thread on whether RB should be loaned out and I tried to get people to tell me what, if they believed the lad had learnt very little/ nothing from his time at Sheffield Wednesday (which apparently they did), they expected to gain from merely repeating the exercise at the same club. I had hoped that some would talk about progression and maybe getting him a loan at a higher level, but all I really got was a list of players who were made/ unharmed by their loan spells (as usual) presented as if they actually prove anything in relation to the individuals never mind footballers in general and Ross Barkley in particular.

Matt (#083) - Ross Barkley may be confusing a lot of people because he does not easily fit into what people see as a typical midfield player. Of what we have he is most like a cross between Ossie and Darron Gibson. Neither of them were the finished article at 19 because their strengths are not about the power and /or pace that are the basis for a lot of other players (Jack Rodwell being a good example). I don't think DM has written him off, but that doesn't mean he knows exactly what to do with him (for the best) at this moment. Loaning him out may mean his mistakes don't harm us, but it isn't guaranteed to help him make the transition to playing at Premier League level.

Kev Johnson
63 Posted 11/01/2013 at 23:14:21
I think I'm right in saying that Shef Wed played him behind the striker (Attacking Mid), rather than Centre Mid. It'll be interesting to see where Leeds position him.

As I've said before, I think playing out of position - like Wide Mid, either side - is fairly standard for young talented players, and helps with their general development. I can't think of many players who play exactly the same position all their lives. Gerrard certainly hasn't. Didn't Alan Ball start off at Blackpool as a winger, or at least Wide Midfielder? Different types of players, obviously, but the principle is the same.

Si Cooper
64 Posted 11/01/2013 at 23:17:51
Jamie, I have seen him make tackles for both so where does that leave us.

He may not be a blood and guts style tackler but then neither is Fellaini or Scholes (or Beckham or Zidane, etc, etc). He is only19 and had a bad injury so will probably get stronger and more of a handful naturally, but even if he doesn't it is not as though he will need to be to still be an effective creative midfielder.

You're not expecting him to be a 'dogs of war' player are you, because I don't think he was ever touted as that?

Si Cooper
65 Posted 11/01/2013 at 23:28:05
Ian (#089) - it just makes more sense to compare us with the likes of Swansea, Sunderland, Newcastle and Villa though, doesn't it? When they are sending their best young players out (present day not historical) instead of playing them, then I will concede it should be standard practice for us as well.

Don't pose non-rhetorical questions as though they are rhetorical if you don't want to get called for it.

Jamie Barlow
66 Posted 11/01/2013 at 23:30:16
Si, I never said I haven't seen him make a tackle, I said he doesn't like a tackle. Maybe it's something to with his injury, I don't know.

I would imagine you lose a bit of confidence after an injury like that, and the only way to get that confidence back is to play competitive games.

He isn't getting games for us because he isn't ready yet so it can only be a good thing he's gone out on loan.

Dogs of war? I only said he doesn't like a tackle.

Steven Telford
67 Posted 11/01/2013 at 23:48:32
Barry, course not, just sticking up for the Boss for any who may have taken you seriously ;-)
Si Cooper
68 Posted 11/01/2013 at 23:52:48
Jamie, we have a Dutch international centre-back who was player of the year last season who could easily be characterised as not liking a tackle.

I am just saying leave the kid alone and don't make out he is worse than he is.

"He isn't getting games for us because he isn't ready yet so it can only be a good thing he's gone out on loan." A couple of points on this:

1) It could be argued that playing him with our first team will get him ready quicker than sending him to the Championship. It is the reasonable concern that mistakes he may make could be costly in games we can ill afford to lose if we hope to stay in contention for Europe that are keeping him out rather than huge question marks over what he can bring to the team. If so many of our games weren't so tight, if the stakes weren't so high we would be able to play him to bring him on. He may be good enough to play for us now, but the circumstances aren't right to gamble on it.

2) Saying it can only be a good thing is simply your opinion. It may be good, bad or indifferent. For example, the 12 games he played for Sheffield Wed were not good for him (apparently) because he has people like you queuing up to point out his faults.

Jamie Barlow
69 Posted 12/01/2013 at 01:05:39
People like me?

Do you mean someone who has a different opinion on how to treat Barkley?

And why do you keep making out I've said something I haven't.

I didn't make out he is worse than he is and I didn't say his loan at Sheff Wed wasn't good for him.

It is ok that I I don't think he's ready. It is only my opinion as I posted it or do I have to put " in my opinion" before everything I say?

Ben Jones
70 Posted 12/01/2013 at 01:28:25
Same old, same old again.

Barkley runs like a headless chicken in centre mid, he needs experience in that position, otherwise we're gonna concede loads of goals. He aint disciplined enough yet. The only position he could do a difference the way he is now, but we have one of the best players in the league there at the moment, and even then, Osman, Pienaar and Naismith would play ahead of him.

People need to be patient with him

Ben Jones
71 Posted 12/01/2013 at 01:33:45
The attacking mid position even, sorry
Si Cooper
72 Posted 12/01/2013 at 01:22:22
Jamie, what am I making out you said that you didn't? Explain to me what 'doesn't like a tackle' means if it isn't pointing out a fault that you feel needs to be sorted out. I don't understand why you feeI it is so important to rectify this, and have laid out why he doesn't necessarily need it to be a top player. It certainly isn't a good reason to send him out on loan as it should be easy to work on in training in a controlled environment.

People are picking out weaknesses in his game as if no-one else in our team has them, and then linking them to him going back out on loan. I find this dissection and fault-finding unpleasant and pointless, as well as unwarranted on occasion.

The lad came close to playing for us last season so he must have been close to being good enough then. He went out on loan and yet according to some he is still not good enough, so what exactly did his loan period do for him?

I think it showed the lad is capable but raw, but it gave him little to help him slot in back at EFC, because of the role he played and the relative levels of his skills meant he could cruise. Ultimately, being a big fish in a small pond doesn't prepare you for being a small fish in a big pond, which is what he has to be before he can think of becoming a big fish in the big pond.

I have already said a loan at a high enough level will at least challenge the lad. Somehow I have been able to do that by focusing on the positives and not by making statements about his perceived faults.

Si Cooper
73 Posted 12/01/2013 at 01:54:47
Agree he needs experience Ben; thing is to ensure that the experience is at an adequate level. Hopefully Leeds will give him the challenge he needs.
Craig Fletcher
74 Posted 12/01/2013 at 02:10:58
Barkley has been hampered this season by Fellaini moving up to a more attacking midfield role, Osman's and Anichebe's improving form, and the arrival of Mirallas, Hitz and Naismith, all of whom can play in an advanced midfield role which presumably is Barkley's intended position. I think simply it's a case of Barkley falling down the pecking order more than anything else which means there's less likelihood of him getting game time.

So, to me it makes logical sense to loan him out – keep him fit, continue his development. And, folks, we're only talking a month at this stage, Leeds don't have him till the end of time, so perhaps a little perspective required...

Jamie Barlow
76 Posted 12/01/2013 at 08:27:05
Si, as I have already said, I didn't make out he is worse than he is and I didn't say his loan at Sheff Wed wasn't good for him.

He is as good or bad as I think he is, no more, no less. It's only my opinion.

"Doesn't like a tackle" means exactly what it says and I've explained why I think it is that way earlier.

I don't understand why you've got so upset because I pointed out "one of his faults" and why I think it's good for him to go out on loan.

Steve Pugh
78 Posted 12/01/2013 at 08:04:10
Si, would you rather played in our first team, made mistakes and cost us a European place or made mistakes elsewhere so that when he does break into the first team he doesn't make as many?

Do you think that we should disrupt the midfield that has given us the best start we've had in years, just to develop one player. Or should we let them carry on and send him elsewhere?

John Crawley
80 Posted 12/01/2013 at 09:23:22
The best thing for Barkley's development is to stay as far away from Moyes as possible; so on that basis a loan is a good move. Whether playing under Neil Warnock is the right move is another matter. It would have been interesting to see what other clubs were wanting to loan him.
Ian Bennett
82 Posted 12/01/2013 at 09:40:43
Si 99 - so what you are basically saying is follow the small herd. I can't agree. The kids need games, can be put on 24 hr recall, so if Moyes isn't going to play them get them playing elsewhere.

I have no idea that the herd hasn't loaned anyone promising out to league 1 or championship, an I suspect you don't either.

Jim Knightley
85 Posted 12/01/2013 at 10:48:19
Si...Barkley lacks experience. There is of course a difference between the Premiership and Championship...but he needs first team football, in order to mature, where he can mistakes, and also influence matches. Now it is correct to point out successful loan spells of other players...such as Defoe, or Osman, or Wilshere (albeit in this division), because they came back less naive players. With young players, it is often about learning when to dribble, when to pass short, and when to get rid of the ball. This doesn't need to happen at Everton, but it does need to happen in a fast paced competitive environment, which the Championship offers, and which the Under 21 league can't.

Now the issue with Barkley, is that he is truly, a central midfield player. He will not displace Fellaini in our team, and therefore that leaves two central, and deeper positions which he is not suited for currently. Given our attacking formation, we need experience and/or defensive ability in front of the back four, neither of which Barkley offers. His minor cameos have shown an understandable desire to please...which is exactly what we saw in Wilshere tbh. And I think that desire to please, highlights his naivety.


And Si, I think that just because a few people have criticised the couple of performances he has had since the return from his loan spell, doesn't mean 1) it wasn't beneficial 2) or a further loan won't be. Really, I think Barkley should go back out for the season (that he hasn't suggests to me that we are not buying another central mid, or Moyes hasn't been given a guarantee about first team starts), and I think his cameos, especially against Chelski, just illustrated his will to impress. He will learn in time to get the most out of his natural ability...and he will learn it alot quicker whilst playing regular first team football.

One more thing about Barkley....he is only 19, and has lost one year of his development through injury. He is not Rooney, and we musn't pile the pressure on, because as much as we would like him to be the next England superstar, he is miles away at present. Central midfield is also a far less forgiving position. In time he will learn what he needs to, and it needs to be away from EFC, because we can't offer him the matches. But it is ok, because that is what loans are for. I also think

Jim Knightley
86 Posted 12/01/2013 at 11:05:34
*because Leeds are a better team than Sheffield Wednesday, and pushing for promotion via the play-offs, that it may be a more useful environment if he is heavily involved in the first team picture.
Geoff Edwards
87 Posted 12/01/2013 at 18:08:25
So much talk about mistakes costing us this or that. Which Everton first team player doesn't make multiple errors during a match? His performance against chelsea was also blown out of proportion. He gave the ball away stupidly once and shot from distance once when he shouldn't have. Big deal. He also constantly showed for the ball. And looked to make things happen. By all means loan him out if he's not quite ready bur stop banging on about mistakes
Tony Dove
88 Posted 13/01/2013 at 13:18:47
Post 143 is spot on. Why did he ever bring him back from Sheffield? We have just wasted another 2 months when he could have been playing 90 minutes every week.

Moyes has many attributes but dealing with promising young players is not one of them. I have still not forgiven him for not playing Rodwell in the 2009 Cup Final.

Ian Allaker
89 Posted 13/01/2013 at 13:36:02
Tony, what exactly would Rodwell have done? He is shite.
Mark Roberts
90 Posted 13/01/2013 at 20:23:11
The manager may not trust him in the centre of his midfield but outside of Mirallas the right-hand side of midfield is a problem position for us. Ross Barkley's future is in centre mid but he has the skill and energy required to at least have been tried a bit more often in this position as he attempts to get up to speed with the pace of the Prem. Naismith / Anichebe, I think he could offer more than either of these two in this position.
Tony Dove
91 Posted 13/01/2013 at 21:21:54
Ian, the point I was trying to make is that Rodwell was playing brilliantly at that time. We know what followed...
John Crawley
92 Posted 13/01/2013 at 21:50:19
Tony I agree about the cup final but that is one of Moyes's biggest weaknesses, his unwillingness to play young players when they should (and need) to be given a chance. His record at developing and bringing young players through is shocking.

Not only was it pointless bringing him back from Sheffield Wednesday, the fact is that Moyes pissed away all of the previous season as well playing him in U-18 games when he should have been on loan in the Championship. I would have liked to have seen him playing under Holloway for the last half of last season.

Steavey Buckley
93 Posted 17/01/2013 at 15:30:09
All younger players including Barkley who are vying for first team action, but not trusted, should be sent out on loan until ready. Hanging around Finch lane does them no real good. Jose Baxter was the classic example. Now plying his trade with Oldham until ready for a step to a higher leage. Unfortunately, Everton won't get any money for him if he does. He left Everton when his contract finished.

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

» Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.


About these ads