A tough and dogged fight for a point

, 21 January, 233comments  |  Jump to most recent
Southampton 0 - 0 Everton
Naismith and Neville are favoured in midfield with Anichebe on the bench where Kevin Mirallas makes perhaps a token appearance after returning from two months out with a hamstring problem.

Everton started slowly and come under a fair bit of pressure early on, Phil Jagielka diverting a cross just the right side of Howard's post, and then a Puncheon shot careening just inches wide of the same post off a defection.

Everton started to get more possession and forward play, thanks to a couple of free-kicks pitched up to Fellaini. But Ramirez benefited from another deflection that forced Howard to push the ball away for a corner that drifted behind harmlessley.

A bizarre Osman dribble dribbled off into nothing as he got into the Soton area but at least the Blues were trying to play some joined-up stuff along the ground. Then Coleman got in a little better cross and Baines won Everton's first corner with a blocked shot that Distin nodded tamely wide.

A soft foul given up by Neville saw Lambert lash his free-kick onto the post, with Howard right on it. The struggle continued through the rest of the half, with the hosts getting closer... Gaston Ramirez beat Leighton Baines to get a low shot in which Howard turned behind.Just before the break and Lambert powered a free header just a fraction wide of the post.

Everton did a lot better after the break, Fellaini firing in close at the far post at Boruc's legs, then from the corner, powering a header straight at the keeper's grateful arms. But the Saints kept coming back at them, giving the Blues a really hard game.

The hour mark approached and the appointed time for substitutions, this time forced... with Coleman coming off after getting some attention on his leg after over-stretching, and possibly giving himself a substantial injury. Anichebe came on with Neville slipping into the back-four.

Osman wellied in a tremendous shot at the corner that was deflected over. Past the hour and a superb ball was gifted by Anichebe right to the feet of Nikica Jelavic with an open goal before him and he stumbled all over it like it was a bowling ball... Shocking miss that totally summed up the way his season is going...

Moyes reacted hauling off the badly misfiring Croatian and bringing on Kevin Mirallas in a clear effort to change things up front.

Anichebe got behind the red line off a superb Fellaini ball and Buroc got a hand to push his shot wide as Everton suddenly looked so much better, even if Mirallas was a little ring-rusty. Anichebe then fed Mirallas, a more difficult ball, but he lashed at it and sent high what should have been a net-buster.

But that seemed to be it from Everton as they could not structure another meaningful attack as Southampton gained a second lease of life and pushed the Everton defence hard as the minutes ticked away toward a second scoreless draw, although Mirallas tried to power his way through for a shot on Boruc, and Naismith was floored off the ball for a massive penalty shout form the traveling Blues, as the Saints survived a last late corner.

In the end, it was manful defence from the beleagured Blues, who seem to be looking less and less mindful of really challenging the top four.

Southampton: Boruc, Clyne, Yoshida, Hooiveld, Shaw, Puncheon, Cork, Schneiderlin, Ramirez (71' Richardson), Lambert, Do Prado.
Subs: K Davis, S Davis, Rodriguez, Fox, Chaplow, De Ridder.

Everton: Howard; Coleman (56' Anichebe), Jagielka, Distin, Baines; Naismith, Neville, Osman, Pienaar; Fellaini; Jelavic (67' Mirallas).
Subs: Mucha, Heitinga, Duffy, Oviedo, Hitzlsperger.

Michael Kenrick

Quotes or other material sourced from ToffeeWeb Match Reports



Reader Comments (233)

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Nick Entwistle
1 Posted 21/01/2013 at 19:36:55
Naismith... I still believe. Jelavic... I still believe.
Mark Tanton
2 Posted 21/01/2013 at 19:37:39
Anichebe has every right to be pissed off at losing out to that total anti-footballer Naismith.
Adam Nelson
3 Posted 21/01/2013 at 19:39:19
Jelavic... still believe. Naismith... losing belief quickly. Would rather see Vic or Oviedo.
James Stewart
4 Posted 21/01/2013 at 19:42:04
Strange to keep on picking Naismith when Oviedo and vic both in better form and have pace.
Tony Onslow
5 Posted 21/01/2013 at 19:47:37
I feel for Vic because I think he should have been given a start.
Ian Smitham
6 Posted 21/01/2013 at 20:00:53
Many say you can tell the strength of a team by the strength of the bench. Wow ours is good tonight
Ian McPherson
7 Posted 21/01/2013 at 20:27:58
We will never get these last 30 minutes back.
Steven Telford
8 Posted 21/01/2013 at 20:47:18
Half time Hairdryer treatment is in order.
Dick Fearon
9 Posted 21/01/2013 at 20:47:46
Jeleavic is on the card as centre forward but what is he actually playing.
Ste Henderson
10 Posted 21/01/2013 at 20:48:26
What a absolute load of garbage first-half performance that was, very lucky we're still in the game!!!
Jonny Flynn
11 Posted 21/01/2013 at 20:49:00
A while since we have been this poor... only positive: we are still level. C'mon lads, let's see what you are made of. Midfield not at the races!
Tony J Williams
12 Posted 21/01/2013 at 20:51:09
Hopefully we can't play as bad as that second half
Anto Byrne
13 Posted 21/01/2013 at 20:47:40
Utter Utter garbage. Says it all with Jelavic playing wide and Naismith just too slow. No idea with Neville and Osman missing in action. Pienaar not at the races. Howard stopping everything obviously wants another clean sheet. Hopeful for a better second half? It's 5 am maybe I should just go to bed.
Dick Fearon
14 Posted 21/01/2013 at 20:50:43
One piss weak strike at goal in the entire first half. C'mon Moyes open your eyes, at this rate defeat is inevitable.
Steve Guy
15 Posted 21/01/2013 at 20:51:14
Worst we've played all season. Pienaar and baines have been rumbled and I would have Pienaar behind Jelavic second half and get Anichebe on wide. Take off Neville or Osman they keep giving the ball away
Jon Ferguson
16 Posted 21/01/2013 at 20:48:14
I Wouldn't quite say wow at our bench although it's been the best for a while.

I'd get Naismith off. Again he's been a none entity. I'd go for Oveido as his replacement moving Peinaar across to the right. We are trying to go down the left but they're marking us out. Moving Peinaar to the right might give him more space and time to link up with Coleman.

I'd also bring Hitz on for Neville based on his ability to pass forwards which Phil hasn't so far this game. Also Hitz can hit it from anywhere, useful in a tight game like this.

I'd obviously love to see Mirallas on but wouldn't Wang to rush him.

If it's nil nil with 5 mins to go, I'd bring on Anichebe. Despite his recent improvement I don't rate him, but in a scrappy game he might be useful bulldozing through their defence.

Winston Williamson
17 Posted 21/01/2013 at 20:54:58
On that 1st half performance you can see why Sky don't play us more often...do we really want 4th spot or what!!!!!
Gary Richardson
18 Posted 21/01/2013 at 20:55:30
I am sorry but if this performance doesn't tell Moyes and the board that we need a new midfielder then I don't know what does. Piss poor again. Thomas H should be in the midfield and Neville left back in th changing rooms. Time for an early sub.
Tony J Williams
19 Posted 21/01/2013 at 20:57:29
Yes but Winston, this is not the norm for us this season. It is unusual for us to be so bad.

Pienaar again having a stinker, daft flicks that are not coming off and Fellaini unable to get into the game.

Dave Lynch
20 Posted 21/01/2013 at 20:58:43
My heart bleeds for Jelavic, he has become another channel runner.
Damian Braithwaite
21 Posted 21/01/2013 at 21:09:46
We defo need to add to the squad this transfer window, someone to challenge Pienaar for his place cos he's been shite lately and a good striker will do me. We are in danger of falling off the pace if the rest of the season is anything like tonight's game.
John Malone
26 Posted 21/01/2013 at 21:40:09
Champions league your having a laugh too many players not good enough, Steven Naismith is utter shite.
Damian Braithwaite
27 Posted 21/01/2013 at 21:35:38
Osmans had a mare gave up possession too many times tonight
John Siffor
28 Posted 21/01/2013 at 21:51:57
What a poor outcome Play Mirallas up top and go get Donovan back. Jela and VA arent going to get us to the CL. Listless performance
Steven Telford
29 Posted 21/01/2013 at 20:56:20
If I was a saints supporter I would be gutted to not take 3 points of team which played so shit.
We could not even hold the ball,
And that miss from Jelavic. He now has to be dropped
Tony J Williams
30 Posted 21/01/2013 at 21:53:01
Dave, what part of the channel was 5 yards from goal and missing with his leading foot?

Pienaar continuing to do nothing too.

Robin Cannon
31 Posted 21/01/2013 at 21:51:57
Does Naismith exist for any other reason than for the ball to bounce awkwardly off him?

Not a great performance, first half particularly. Attitude at least was better in the second half, and substitutions were positive. So many potential counter attacks foundering on just a basic inability to quickly control a loose ball.

James Martin
32 Posted 21/01/2013 at 21:53:21
Whole team just looks broken. Pienaar, Osman Baines Jelavic just look like the batteries have well and truly gone out. Can't believe we're going to have to sit here and watch painfully as the worst Liverpool side in living memory go ahead of us.
John Siffor
33 Posted 21/01/2013 at 21:53:44
Naismith is crap
Dave Lynch
34 Posted 21/01/2013 at 21:53:52
Moyes famous one good 1/2 a season syndrome is looming.
Steven Telford
38 Posted 21/01/2013 at 21:53:53
Yes - Naismith was shit (as usual) but there were a significant number of other players who were equally shit.
Dave Lynch
39 Posted 21/01/2013 at 21:56:07
James@424.
We surrendered twice to the worst liverpool team in history last season, the current one is better than queen kennys shit.
Jim Knightley
40 Posted 21/01/2013 at 21:53:54
Awful performance first half...improved in the second, especially with Anichebe up top.

Will take a point in the circumstance. Saints did to us what they did to Arsenal...but if we want fourth, we have to be winning in matches like these.

The midfield hardly covered itself in glory tonight...Naismith was poor, but then he is limited, but I was most disappointed with Pienaar's performance.

On the plus side, we are three points off fourth, and Mirallas is back. Really need to add in January though...will be criminal not to. We also have to win our next two against WBA and Villa.

Phil Sammon
43 Posted 21/01/2013 at 21:55:11
That was awful.

Neville and Jags with long ball after long ball...completely aimless.

Naismith was crap first half and yet probably our best player. Barkley, Oviedo, Kennedy...surely these guys deserve a chance.

What a horrific game of football.

Jim Knightley
45 Posted 21/01/2013 at 21:58:28
James, why the fuck are you mentioning Liverpool? they are behind us?! what is wrong with you? Liverpool arn't going to get fourth...so don't concern yourselves with them. In two matches time, I guarantee you the gap will be much bigger than 4 points.
Drew Shortis
46 Posted 21/01/2013 at 21:53:42
Poor team performance. The midfield is definitely below par. Mirallas coming back could be invaluable as Naismith offers very little. Moyes should drop him and give Anichebe who showed a bit of a threat. What has happened to Jelavic. That chance he missed was so easy. I would try Mirallas and Anichebe up front next time and let Jelavic have a sit on the bench to re-focus himself!
Steven Telford
47 Posted 21/01/2013 at 21:59:45
Why are people taking about Liverpool?
who gives a shit about the worst Liverpool team in history - its pathetic to think our aim is simply to finish ahead of Liverpool.
Jonny Flynn
48 Posted 21/01/2013 at 21:59:58
Its a point gained considering how shite we were! Only other positive is the board have to see we need reinforcements and fast!
Chris Smith
49 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:02:22
Sadly Jelavic has gone wrong and now needs to be dropped. Hopefully he can get his form back.
Phil Sammon
52 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:04:01
To be fair to Jelavić he gets one chance per game at the moment. He should take more but the service has been diabolical.
Pienaar, Baines both off colour.
Brian Williams
53 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:00:06
Without doubt our worst performance of the season. Too many players below par. Jelavic unable to put away an easy chance and admittedly suffering from lack of decent supply. Fellaini distracted and lethargic. Pienaar poor. Even Baines looked out of sorts fluffing two totally unpressured crosses and making several other poor ones. Osman's usual quick feet turning to lead at all the wrong times. Naisthmith's just not good enough I'm afraid.
Vic had a bit of a go but still seems to charge in like a bull in a China shop and end up on the floor. Super Kev was a welcome sight.
Glad it's over without it being the defeat we probably deserved, after the first half for sure.
Let's move on and forget it hopefully!
Paul Johnson
54 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:02:20
Not a bad result as we only had nine against twelve. We had no one one on the right side of midfield and Neville must have had his manure head on as he kept giving the ball to a red shirt. If Mirrallas is fully fit then Felliani has to play middle of the park until Gibson is fit end of.
Winston Williamson
56 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:03:28
Howard - shit
Coleman - looked okay
Jags - passed shit
Distin - passed shit
Osman - really shit
Naismith - utter shit
Pienaar - shit
Neville - looked more comfortable at right back - midfield - shit
Fellaini - frustratingly shit
Jelavic - shit
Mirallas - look half decent
Anichebe - looked fucking good

Its so frustrating being an Evertonian

Kevin Day
57 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:04:52
I feel sorry for our loyal fans who have travelled all that way to watch that shite, they should be refunded their travel costs and any loss of wages if they have booked a day off to get there, disgraceful to the highest order. Thank god for 2 home games, but Christ we need to improve.
Patrick Murphy
58 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:03:48
The point is Steven, we have been above them all season and it will count for nothing until Moyes realises that Naismith is one of the most useless players I've ever seen in an Everton shirt.

Away from home you have to have all guns blazing and we were extremely fortunate to go home with a point. Playing Neville in Midfield is also a no no, whilst Felliani should be put back into the middle of the park with Anichebe and or Jelavic up front.

Teams have managed to suss out that we can be bullied in the middle of the pitch and we only threaten down one side of the pitch, hopefully, the return of Mirallas might make a difference, but I fear that by the time he gets his match fitness back we will be out of the running for a European spot, never mind the elusive CL.

In fact if I were Moyes I would ask Jelavic if he really wants to stay at the club, because something is bothering the lad and he needs to ship him out if his heart isn't in it.


Dick Fearon
59 Posted 21/01/2013 at 20:53:54
We were 2nd best on the managerial and the playing side. Naismith, Pienaar and Osman were totally innefective in the midfield. Jelavic was less than useless on the right anf left wings. I cant judge him on his performance as centre forward because he did not play in that position.
Southamptons brand new manager pulled all the strings while Moyes did what Moyes does.
It is the biggest joke of the year to suggest Chelsea are after him.
Gary Mortimer
60 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:03:48
Shocking! I feel for our boys who travelled down to watch that spineless and effortless performance.

Why didn't Jele actually look at the ball when Vic passed it to him? His head was up like he was at Meerkat Manor!!!!

Ozzie and Nuts were useless and Felly was rampaging around trying to get himself booked but not actually doding much.

Naismith is rubbish and always will be. At least the others can get their form back, but alas no matter how many chances Moyes gives him, he will never be good enough for a challenge to be anywhere near the top 4.

Nice to see Kev back, but he's clearly nowhere near match fit.

Good job Howard made a few saves.

Kevin Day
62 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:10:15
Winston, Howard was our best player tonight, yes he kicked a dodgy couple if balls, but he kept us at 0-0
Winston Williamson
63 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:09:39
baines - unusually poor (not shit tho)
Steven Telford
64 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:11:03
Howard was not shit
David Maher
66 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:07:23
Absolute crap!!! Naismith shouldn't be playing ahead of Victor or Oviedo... We badly need Gibbo back or we need to sign a creative midfielder to supply Jelavic. I would put Fella back in the middle for now and play Jelavic and Victor up top. Too weak in the middle... glad to see Mirallas back!!!
Nick Waters
67 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:05:36
Naismith our best player Phil??? Like a pitch invader most of the time trying to avoid contact. Neville a screeching 'my ball' serial mis-controller and misplaced-passer (I think he was trying to pass). And jelavic couldn't hit Jo Brand's arse with a handful of grit. 'Bye bye Felli and Bainesey I think
Andy Mack
68 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:10:25
How was Howard shit?
Chris Aiden
69 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:00:59
Extremely poor performance, struggling to find any positives really!

However, I thought Anichebe did well when he come on, and good to see Mirallas back, so not all doom and gloom.

I suppose.....

Winston Williamson
70 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:11:49
i'll correct that...howard's distribution was shit...some good saves in the first half
Jim Knightley
71 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:12:36
Not sure what Howard did wrong exactly.
Kevin Day
72 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:14:57
Winston, only some if it was, when under pressure which was placed upon him by his own defence.
Kevin Day
73 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:14:57
Winston, only some if it was, when under pressure which was placed upon him by his own defence.
Sam Hoare
74 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:07:53
Not sure we will be on tv much more after that awful fare. Coleman injured just as goes beginning to look our best rb in a decade. Anichebe to start next game up front?
Patrick Murphy
75 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:14:25
Howard was our man of the match, he made plenty of good saves especially in the first-half.
Nick classic Jo Brands arse with a handful of grit!

Colin Glassar
76 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:17:10
For gods sake why does he persist with Naismith? The man is woeful. With him and Neville on the pitch we are playing with 9 players.
Kevin Day
77 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:18:02
We certainly looked "better" when Anichebe came on Sam.
Philip Quilliam
78 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:07:13
I can't remember posting anything negative on here but tonight's performance is not acceptable. Players will be in and out of form but there is no excuse for being consistently second to every ball, no excuse for not closing players down and no excuse for wandering round the pitch just looking for the full time whistle. It takes no skill to rectify any of those problems all it requires is application and determination and we were pitifully lacking in both tonight although I will say that both subs tried to inject some life into the stagnant corpse we looked like. I hope that they all get their heads together tomorrow and address this issue with honesty and the will to make sure it is not repeated. It may be that some players do not have a good enough skill set to play premiership football that is not their fault, it is their bloody fault when they go through the motions.
Paul David
79 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:11:43
That was so dreadfull I don't know where to start, glad I didnt manage to get tickets for Bolton if we play like that again. Says it all when Anichebe comes off the bench to be our best player and even he was just ok. I'm glad Moyes had the balls to take Jelavic off, he needs to know his place is under threat if he continues to miss sitters. I still feel sorry for him though as he is so isolated that he is easy to play against and nothing is created for him. You could see the how many more half chances were created when we went to 2 up top, not in every game but we should be playing with 2 strikers far more often.
Mick MacManus
80 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:11:33
Fustration is easing slightly after a terribly inept performace. There is a long way to go yet, and we are still in the mix for 3rd or 4th but there is no doubt we have to up our game and improve our goal difference which will be crucial at the end.
Ralph Basnett
81 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:17:35
Their manager cannot speak English but still communicates to his team better than ours! An inept performance that makes you realise that mediocrity is always going to be our goal.

Totally thrilled that we got a point away from,home from the mighty Southampton - says it all really!!!!

Andy Mack
82 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:16:43
Frustrating time. We didn't get beat and we deserved to on that performance. Awful first half, but the line up kind of predicted that. We've seen enough of Naisy now to know to know he is a benchwarmer in the Prem at best. Jelly needs dropping. Baines is unsettled, Pienaar isn't focused. If its a rough and tumble game Ossie needs to be hauled off. We looked like Brentford in an FA cup tie at times.
James Morgan
83 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:20:47
Utter shite. Never thought I'd say it, Vic to start over Jelavic. He looks useless now, shame.
Colin Glassar
85 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:18:30
Winston Williamson spot on. Add Moyes shit for his shit tactics. CL? Chelsea? Lmao.
Paul Johnson
86 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:20:20
Phil get your point about work rate but unfortunately if you have the touch of a rapist and can't pass five yards then you shouldn't be in the premiership mate but unfortunatey for us this is the sort of player we are in for at the moment due to financial constraints.
Patrick Murphy
87 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:19:46
Phillip I agree 100% with everything you say, that first half performance took me back to the dark days, where there was no organisation, nobody standing up to be counted and lacking the necessary industry to address the problems you highlight. Second half was an improvement but it was more like a display from a mid-table team, rather than a performance from a team with European ambitions.

If we have first-half attitude at Bolton on Saturday our season might be over before the transfer window closes.

Zaid Omar
88 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:20:27
That first half has to be the worst I have seen from Everton in a long long time... If we don't get a holding midfielder who can control the pace of the game and bring composure to our midfield we gonna really battle in the second half of the season.. And jelavic definitely needs to be given a break.. His confidence is rock bottom at the moment.. His miss was laughable!!
Kevin Tully
89 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:14:41
I am more worried about the Cup game on Saturday, we are woefully out of form.

I was always surprised Baines and Pienaar were not shut down before these last two games, as 90% of our chances are created through these two down the left.

We had a full 8 days off, while they played a tough game on Wednesday. I fear for the second half of the season, we have some very tough games away from home.

No excuses about a small squad please, we are not in Europe and only in one cup.

Stephen Davies
90 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:19:35
Baines was poor, instead of going behind the southampton players he pased it into the middle, The Southampton players ran forward creating yet another break.

Pienaar did not seem interested in getting forward, wanting to move into the centre instead of playing to his strengths.

Osman was not much better as Pienaar kept getting in his way

Naismith I hope can do much better, does not run with the ball, if he did we would do better.

Howard had a really good game

Best player on the pitch..... Luke Shaw, played really well. Shame he wasn't on our side

Overall, could do better, a lot better

Steven Telford
91 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:25:58
Patrick, I take your point , but my own pint is that at the moment, our concerns out
I just feel that it ‘flatters’ Liverpool too much to have them feel we are more preoccupied with them.
Saying that, on match day, of course, I love to beat them, and hate to lose to the more than what I am for most other teams.
You may be right that, as things look we may soon need to concern ourselves with Liverpool, but for now, its arsenal and spurs who we keep our eyes on.
Mick MacManus
92 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:24:07
Jeli got shite service all game bar the one cross from Aniechebe which he should have at least hit the target with. He had to come out of position to get into the game. So it's not all his fault, but the lack of prowess in front of goal certainly does his confidence no good..
Steven Telford
93 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:27:45
Patrick, I take your point, but my own point is that at the moment, our concerns our better placed. I just feel that it ‘flatters’ Liverpool too much to have them feel we are more preoccupied with them – we are big enough club to not have that mindset.

Saying that, on match day, of course, I love to beat them, and hate to lose to them more than what I am for most other teams. You may be right that, as things look we may soon need to concern ourselves with Liverpool, but for now, it's Arsenal and Spurs who we keep our eyes on.

Dennis Shaw
94 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:25:37
Winston – Howard was outstanding today, Man of the Match for us easily, and kept us in the game.

Naismith and Osman should have been hauled off at half-time, Naismith for being utterly crap as per usual and Osman for having a nightmare, dilly-dallying on the ball and losing possession too many times.

Anichebe looked sharp. What is going on with Moyes –how can he continue to pick Naismith over others in the squad? It's infuriating and it is holding us back.

Moyes Out!!!!

Drew O'Neall
95 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:25:13
I think Naismith is coming in for a lot of unfair stick here, he's no worldbeater but he did alright tonight.

The main problem for me was that we went high ball far too often against a physical team and just gave it straight back to them.. Same as last week.

Paul Johnson
96 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:27:45
Bit pissed off with the number of guys havin a pop at Baines. Fuck me the guy can't be a world beater every week.
Patrick Murphy
98 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:29:02
Steven you're right, the only team I'm really interested in is Everton and if we manage to beat WBA in our next game and the other lot draw with Arsenal we would be 5 points ahead of both of them. But our performances have got to improve on what we have seen so far this year.

Paul Johnson
99 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:30:56
Drew are you serious? Give me one good moment tonight that he delivered.
Patrick Murphy
100 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:32:19
Baines still managed to provide more than enough chances for the forwards to score from even if some thought his overall performance was not up to scratch.
David Holroyd
101 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:18:02
We played shit tonight, nothing wrong with the starting lineup but, after half-n-hour, we where second best. Oviedo has looked bright every time he has been on but he is being underused. The right hand side was weak and Naismith wasn't at the races.

Changes were made on the 65-minute mark as per usual, Oviedo is bright and quick and quick thinking, Naismith is not. Drawing too many games, need to start making draws into wins.

Adrian Townsend
102 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:18:42
Having been watching Scottish football for many years including the last 10 when he appeared to show promise, I worried that Naismith would flatter to deceive when he signed for us – and so it has proved. He is a consistent weak link in a Blues team that needs at least 9 of the 11 to be at the top of their game for the project to work. He is not, never has been and never will be Premier League class. Not that tonight was all his fault - a number of players not at the races tonight.

I thought Kev and Vic looked a step above when they came on, Marouane and Leighton did the best they could with the woeful support they had, and the defense and Tim should be commended at least for keeping a clean sheet when their colleagues did not give them the cushion needed in midfield and the outlets to play some football.

Nick Waters
103 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:26:58
Mirallas looked like he was from another planet when he came on. He can deliver for us if he stays fit. The others were predictable and were well snuffed out by Soton.

One moment summed up the performance for me; Coleman forayed forward at one point in the 2nd half and had 3 red shirts around him quickly with NO support from a blue shirt. To me that said Moyes went for a point.

Does this man actually want CL football next season, I mean does he really? Is he thinking that we would never have the squad to make it work, and our league form would plummet à la Newcastle? I wonder.

Ste Traverse
104 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:21:12
Don't think I've ever seen Baines play as poor for ages.
Ian Bennett
105 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:17:12
Passing was woeful, too slow too short, we never threatened to find a blue shirt all game.

I thought we really missed Gibson in the middle, and were really weak on the right hand side where I believe our number 14 played (debatable). The ball didn't stick up front, and we were poor on the left with Baines and Pienaar. Harold – Jelavic missed a sitter from the left, so perhaps you are right.

You can usually get away with one or two average performers, but we had an entire team. Victor did well when he came on, and Howard kept us in the match. I thought Fellaini was poor, particularly in midfield. Whilst the rest were pretty much dreadful. I don't really understand what Naismith was offering and why Oviedo didn't come on for at least the last ten. It was a great advert for the need to strengthen, up top, centre midfield wide right and reserve right back.

Southampton deserved more. A great advert to get us on the telly more, not, as the sky curse strikes again.

Sam Hoare
106 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:33:57
Naismith didn't really do that much wrong but equally he didn't do much right. I'd say he had a better night than Osman, Neville and Jelavic but that's not saying much.

The good news is that Mirallas is back and... nope, that's it.

Kevin Day
107 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:24:32
Colin, don't see how Moyes can be blamed for that performance, if the players aren't closing down and when they do can't put 2 passes together then any tactics he had wouldn't of been any use. Hopefully this was just a bad day at the office in comparison to our high standards this season, we don't become a shut team over night, but Naismith has to be dropped, but who for though.
Paul David
108 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:31:00
Baines wasn't poor, just below par.

Drew

Naismith certainly wasn't the worst player on the pitch tonight. What he has had though is an awful lot of game time and not shown an ounce of ability in all that time. I've slagged his form from the start but its now obvious that it wasn't form, he really is that bad. If I was Oviedo I would be straight into Moyes office in the morning to ask for a transfer before the window shuts. How he must feel watching other players play utter shite and never get his chance.

John Malone
109 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:22:46
Need a centre mid so Fellaini can stay up top or a fucking striker who can hold the ball up and shoot on target otherwise this season is down the nick.

One question? Why do all our players who get injured come back from injury then get injured almost straight away what is going on there?

On another point the reason people go on about Liverpool is because they are our rivals and we've had to suffer in their shadow for so long it's boss being on top of them and being the top team in the city and the thought them going on a run and snatching that fourth spot (what we dream of getting) makes me sick! If Luis Suarez crossed a zebra crossing in front of me!! "My foot slipped officer".

Patrick Murphy
110 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:36:38
Now that Mirallas is back in the frame surely Naismith won't be seen as much, unless we try him up front.
Peter Laing
111 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:33:05
Out of form and struggling for goals, the redshite now breathing down our neck with Sturridge brought in to add fire power. Kenwright sitting on his hands whistling dixie as Jelavic turns to shite.
Joseph Strumm
112 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:27:26
Dogshit would be flattering, Pienaar obviously back on the booze, Naismith still on the methadone, Neville and Jagielka aimlessly hoofing, it was a fucking embarrassment to watch. Bolton will have watched that and will fancy their chances, normal service resumed.
Trevor Lynes
113 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:31:58
Personally I think that Fellaini was our best player and was the only one who bothered the Southampton defence. Anichebe played well when he came on but Jelavic is totally lacking in confidence and needs a rest for a game or two. Anichebe and Mirallas should start unless we bring in a new striker because Jelavic cannot play up front on his own.

Southampton were made to look much better than they are especially first half. It's no good blaming DM because he has no alternatives to what's on the pitch.

Some players look jaded especially Osman who lost the ball in dangerous places through dwelling on it. We badly need reinforcements!!

Chris Aiden
114 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:34:31
Anyone else think, we just looked like a bunch of lads meeting for the first time tonight?

There was no cohesion, no link up, and as previously stated we were second best to every ball especially in midfield. But on the plus side, as teams now seem to double up against Pienaar and Baines, with Mirallas coming back and hopefully Seamus not being seriously injured, then that may open some space for a promising right side,

Colin Glassar
115 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:39:21
Our problem is we have become too predictable. Starve the Bainaar duo and we lose 85% of our service in the box. Double up on Fellaini and he's neutralised. Press Ossie and the MF and they panic. This has been going on for a few weeks and nothing has been done about it.
Steven Telford
116 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:38:39
It’s frustrating, because it is hard to know what we can do about our problems. We are capable of great things, it seems to be the (relatively speaking) smaller games in which we under-perform.
Patrick Murphy
117 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:43:51
God forbid we were in the position of Reading or QPR, would BK find the cash for his manager in an attempt to stave off relegation? If he would, why wouldn't he do it whilst we still have an outside chance of CL football?
Paul Mackie
118 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:44:34
Utter shite. Best players for us was probably Anichebe and Howard. Everyone else had an absolute 'mare. What the fuck has happened to the team that started the season so well? Does Gibson really make that much of a difference??
Steven Telford
119 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:45:13
Colin, you could be right, but how could a manager who just arrived fresh of the boat be aware of that.

Hopefully KM stays fit, and allows us to take advantage of people putting two men on MF.

Colin Glassar
120 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:43:10
Kevin, we were overrun in the first half and totally outplayed. The players look to the bench for guidance but Moyes was like a statue glaring at them. I won't keep on going on about it but Naismith should've been dragged off after 30 seconds. It must be a worry for the other players when they know they can't trust a team mate to do the basics.
Nick Waters
122 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:41:43
Some people are suggesting our players are tired. Why? No League Cup run, no FA Cup replays, no Euro games, a 9-day layoff before today, and even the shitty pre-season tourno was cancelled. We should be imposing ourselves on wearier teams.

The more I reflect on tonight's game the more I am convinced we went for a point. OK we should have scored and we were on top for 15 mins, but our lines were deep all game and Soton were able to run into gaps and spaces all night. Fortunately they lacked any guile up front, and were as shite as us in front of goal.

Clive Rogers
123 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:41:18
Very poor team selection. Can't believe Moyes picked Neville and Naismith in midfield after the Swansea performance. Don't think he's watching the same game as the rest of us. He's filling the team with his blue eyed boys, regardless of how they are playing.

Neville will still be there with a zimmer frame. Osman's form has taken a massive dip. He just can't cut it in midfield.

Embarrassing performance. Has Moyes lost the plot, or does he just know he's going?

Drew O'Neall
124 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:40:31
As someone said, he (Naismith) wasn't the worst player and yet he's still getting shit.

I thought Fellaini was poor by his own standards, Osman was poor and the defenders, while they defended quite well, gave the ball away far too often.

I'm fed up with seeing the ball needlessly cleared when we are under no pressure (Neville tonight) and Jag's going high over the top because he thinks he's Beckham.

I thought Moyes's tactics were positive and he made the correct moves but he needs to know when to play through midfield instead of bypassing it... It may work against the better teams but against Southampton it just brings us down to their level.

Peter Laing
125 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:46:02
As always Patrick, Kenwright and his shower of shite cronies fail to back the manager when we can all see the writing on the wall and the forward line needs freshening up. Maybe old Bill is looking for a dropsy from the estate of his old mucker Winner.
Kevin Tully
126 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:41:44
Talking about squad numbers, Moyes has a budget, and we have a six million pound player on the bench, earning around £60k per week.

We could have brought in 2-3 decent players for that money, don't tell me there is one Swansea player on more than £30k per week. We could have bigger squad, but these are the choices Moyes has made, no-one else.

Peter Warren
127 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:48:53
Anichbe was great. Unsure why Moyes is persisting with Naismith...
Steven Telford
128 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:49:28
Well, every team has their off days............ it a bit dramatic to speculate things like Moyes lost the plot. (Dare I say, wishful thinking, Clive.)
Andy Kay
129 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:06:34
Chris Smith, how's he going to get his form back being dropped? I admire the fact he's still getting into positions and running off the back of defenders. Hopefully he's going to get one soon off his arse and start a run like last season.

Fellaini should have buried those chances but he's a fans favourite so we can't say anything against him now can we? Well said, Phil Sammon, Baines and Pienaar not up to it today but not getting the stick Naismith is getting.

What, no Howard is a dodgy shaky keeper who's gonna cost us this season. Oh yes, I forgot, he kept us in it in the first half! Osman ? Neville ? Vic? their time will come i'm sure with some of the idiots on these pages.

Just back to Naismith, who else remembers Peter Reids first few games for us 82-83? He stunk the place out! Dave Watsons season in 87? "Sort it out, Kendall... get Mountfield back instead of this imposter!!!"; Martin Keown being laughed off the park against Woking (playing as a forward!); Lee Carsley took three... yes THREE seasons to fit in before becoming "Super Lee" (how are we going to replace him?). Everton heroes months and years later!

Some players take time to settle but still put a shift in while the "Superstars" get away with going missing when it matters. Naismith wasn't so "Shit" when he scored against the Shite was he?? It's not like he's had a career threatening injury or anything? Just think what we could've done with the millions we spent on his transfer fee....

Three defeats in 32 league games... its just like the Mike Walker/ Walter Smith days!

Give the team a break, best season for years. Here's hoping Jelly and Naismith find form soon. We dodged a bullet today but still came away from home with a point. 7 points from the last 3 away games... where did it all go wrong?

Ian Bennett
130 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:42:39
Southampton had their centre half and defensive midfielder booked early, did we commit them in any way to force a red? Fuck no.

I thought Fellaini was poor, and if someone watched that and wanted him for their midfield they would be put off. Yes he can tackle, shoot and pass. But it was back to the old days, with a really weak passing range in the middle, supported by a below par Osman and frankly shocking Neville. Before we go on about that young belgian lad, he isn't the answer. We need someone else to move the ball quicker, as we have a distinct lack of pace in our side. Gibson makes us look quicker with his passing range.

Danny Broderick
131 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:47:07
A couple of points:

Apart from Howard, Jags, Distin & Coleman, everyone was crap 1st half.

Jelavic had no service whatsoever. It's a double edged sword though, as he doesn't get involved with the build-up play. I still can't believe he missed that chance though, he needs taking out of the firing line. His confidence is shot.

If Pienaar doesn't play well, we don't play well.

We are going to struggle to finish 4th. I can't see where the goals are going to come from. And we draw too many games.

Staying positive, we got a clean sheet, only our 4th of the season I believe.

Anichebe is an asset for us. He has really come on in the last year or so.

Also, Mirallas is back. If we can get a run out of him and Gibson, the team is improved massively.

Paul David
134 Posted 21/01/2013 at 23:02:01
Howard 7
Coleman 6
Distin 6
Jagielka 6
Baines 6
Naismith 4
Osman 3
Neville 4
Pienaar 4
Fellaini 5
Jelavic 4

Anichebe 7
Mirallas 6

Steven Telford
138 Posted 21/01/2013 at 23:08:07
At least an 8 for Howard.
Andy Meighan
140 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:41:22
Trevor (#508) — what game were you watching? Fellaini was awful, he has all the grace and poise of an elephant on ice. The lad is so vastly overrated, it's untrue. And it looks like all the hype about him has died down. As I stated earlier on in the season, there'll be no bidding war for him because he's just not that good.

Moyes's problem all through his reign is that he's too loyal to under-achieving players, Surely now Jelavic has to be benched – that miss tonight summed his season up. Anichebe has got to be given a run, he was the only bright spark on a poor night.

And how the fuck anyone can call Howard is beyond me – he kept us in it in the first half. Teams are starting to suss us out, box Baines and the disappointing Pienaar off and you nullify the threat. Thank god Mirallas is back because he'll give us a different option.

Moyes is obsessed with getting the awful Naismith involved, he's gone from bad to worse and it's now getting embarrassing seeing him on the pitch One things for sure: we need players because our squad is just not good enough – whether we get them is a different matter. I won't hold my breath...

Colin Glassar
141 Posted 21/01/2013 at 23:14:50
The problem with Felli is that he no longer has a defined role. One minute he plays as a second striker, the next as a holding midfielder. Personally, I think he's most effective in MF as shown in the second half. Moyes just needs to give him a settled role. Plus he looks frustrated as the refs give him no protection at all.
Harold Matthews
142 Posted 21/01/2013 at 23:18:22
Another Jelavic missed sitter... Same scenario as his last one. Left wing cross. Complete miskick... as forecast over and over again during the past two weeks.
Eric Robinson
143 Posted 21/01/2013 at 23:18:05
I missed the match — very concerned about Coleman coming off injured?? Any news??? Did it look as bad as the match report is suggesting?
Patrick Murphy
144 Posted 21/01/2013 at 23:31:13
Unfortunately, Harold, Everton only attack or cross from the left-hand side.
Si Cooper
145 Posted 21/01/2013 at 22:57:18
Kevin (#502) - 'we don't become a shit team overnight'.

We haven't, it has been creeping in over the last month or so, with decent results and the odd nice bit of play in attack apparently masking the receding effectiveness of our central midfield. People ask why should our players be tired, but I ask why people expect the severely under-paced, under-powered and aging duo of Osman and Neville to be able to dominate the opposition midfield week-in and week-out. Against teams that haven't pressed or have preferred to go down the flanks we are okay, but teams that go through the middle in numbers will show our limitations for the rest of the season unless some reinforcements are found and used.

Colin (#510) - agree with that totally. We need a right-side threat and an athletic enforcer operating in central midfield with (or alongside someone with) vision and a good range of passing. It is not as if our left-hand threat has been a secret for the first part of the season, just that we have been better able to liberate them by providing suitable distractions for the opposition to worry about in other parts of the pitch.

Steven (#514) - he could watch our last few games and talk to a few people at Southampton, I would think.

Matt Kearney
146 Posted 21/01/2013 at 23:26:12
One of the main issues for Naismith is that he doesn't know how to play wide midfield. This was epitomised when Mirallas broke with a couple of minutes left and Naismith ran inside offering no width and therefore no options. Think it's clear he can't play there and should either play as support striker or not at all.
Tony Marsh
147 Posted 21/01/2013 at 23:35:36
Why all the negativity, lads? Most of you adore Moyes. It's Moyes and his tactics that cause these results — nothing else. We never win easy under Moyes we never have done under him.

Moyes is doing what he always does but now it's his time for a sticky period. We've all seen this before over the past 10 years of the Moyes reign and you will no doubt see it again.

Knock, knock...
Who's there?
Abramovich....
Ha ha ha

Mark Stewart
148 Posted 21/01/2013 at 23:26:10
Yes Jelavic is struggling and getting hammered on TW but we're hardly teeing them up for him at the moment. It's no wonder he's snatching at things given how few chances he's getting.

Hopefully Mirallas coming back will give us more options as the Baines-Pineaar axis has been sussed-out now.

Si Cooper
149 Posted 21/01/2013 at 23:34:05
Patrick (#541) - would that be a tactical decision? We normally have lots of different sorts of passes though (cut-backs, passes to run onto, chips to the back post, etc) with Baines and Pienaar occasionally working an opportunity to shoot as well.

Harold (#539) - Jelavic's particular weakness appears to be when he is stationary, waiting for a ball coming in at ninety degrees to the goal. Twice now those types of crosses have ended up hitting his standing leg. Gave you a mention on the live forum when it happened tonight.

Mark Boulle
150 Posted 21/01/2013 at 23:49:16
What on earth has Bryan Oviedo done wrong? I haven't read all the posts above, so somebody may have alluded to this already, but Pienaar was, in my view, our worst player (alright, tied with Naismith!) tonight. Nothing he tried worked, he was hounded off the ball in a way you don't normally see and most of the time he couldn't even control it when it came his way.

The left hand side was crying out for something different. I watched the game with a friend who's a Saints fan and he said the same thing. Every time I've seen him Oviedo has looked sparky, tenacious, quick and with a good eye for a cross. If you're struggling to break a side down, use the three subs available to you for heaven's sake!! Oviedo should have been brought on to add some impetus to the left hand side and Pienaar hauled off and told to get his head in the right place - he looked like he was mentally at the AFCON tonight.

Overall, after that first half a point is ok, but worrying that the goals could be drying up. Anichebe and Mirallas up front for a couple of games now, although sadly I guess that means Naismith continuing wide right.

I wish they'd just close the transfer window now so we could stop dreaming and resign ourselves to battling for Europe till the end of the season with what we have...

Paul Ferry
151 Posted 21/01/2013 at 23:27:08
I really am starting to get a tad sick and tired about the twaddle that has been trotted out game-in-and-game-out recently when we play poor and lose precious points. To wit:

Jim Knightly (432) — "Will take a point in the circumstance. Saints did to us what they did to Arsenal... On the plus side, we are three points off fourth"

Steven Telford (523) — "Well, every team has their off-days"

How many more times am I gonna read someone saying well we will take a point after that; they parked the bus; they beat Chelsea the other day; they physically intimidated us; we're only so many points off 4th; how many games we lost this calendar year, eh? – going all the way back to Stoke and before? This is all so weak and pure pieces of avoidance and in some cases, not all, an almost pathological inability to rap the gaffer over his knuckles. How much longer will this apologetic chorus drag on?

Erm, "every team has their off-days". Well, for starters, you put it in the plural not singular and that sort of gets to my point. 23 games/11 draws. How many more draws will you put up with. A draw is fuzzy coz one shower can say "Calm down, stop knee-jerking jerk we got a point soft lad", and another shower can say "More points dropped etc. etc ".

23 games/11 draws: that's some inspired and motivated gaffer and skipper. We are hanging around the Euro berths not necessarily because of our own efforts; but because others around us are so inconsistent, most notably Arse. If we do not step up our act – and, to be fair to Jim (Knightly) he writes "if we want fourth, we have to be winning in matches like these" – we will sooner or later start to slip down the table, that surely is inevitable if we continue with displays like this. Draws need to be converted into wins. At some point this "Well we got a draw and we're only 5... hang on, 6.... hang on, 7... oh, now it's 8 points off" will start to sound weary and with each passing draw a little eye rolling or "why are you accepting this in that limp and lame manner?

We are singling out players and that's fair enough: for what it's worth: Howard (8), Coleman (7), Jagielka (4), Distin (4), Osman (2), Naismith (2), Pienaar (2), Neville (1), Felli (5), Jelavic (2), Mirallas (5), Anichebe (8).

Moyes picked that team from what he had: he picked Naysmith; he set the formation up; drew up tactics; reacted or did not react to the game as it unfolded; made for him to be fair an early though forced sub. He also takes a share of the blame for tonight's horror show. Praise when due; criticism when due... But Moyes deserves to be closely examined after that display along with the mainly mediocrities he selected to play.

I for one cannot pass off tonight as oh (another) off-day or nice one an away draw or home draw in difficult circumstances. When one or more teams around us go on a run, we will be found wanting, though I'm crossing all fingers that it's us who does it (where has our famed second half of the season rush gone?).

I don't feel particularly cheers and upbeat and bright but I'm not in the doom and gloom basement by any means. A new face or two would bring a little ray of sunshine; keeping key players would bring more sun. But after that total shite, skies are more grey than blue.


Patrick Murphy
152 Posted 22/01/2013 at 00:04:21
Si it's because our right side is so abysmal and we have nobody who can take on players through the middle either, so its all too easy for defenders and if Jelavic does have a problem with the ball coming in from the left it nullifies our threat even more.

Mirallas will hopefully change that, but as you said this has not just happened over-night it has been coming on for a while. We are shown to be ordinary when we need to be stepping up a gear, admittedly the second half was a better showing but the first half was very poor. I love Peanuts to bits but I do wonder what he'd do if Baines wasn't in the team.

We now seem to have reverted back to our bad old ways of being hard to beat but not looking like we will win the game either, a recipe for draws if ever there was one.

David Cornmell
153 Posted 21/01/2013 at 23:51:29
We were fucken gash, especially first half. With a new manager in – regardless of how the previous one left – it was utterly predictable Soton were going to start fast. They played a high line and never allowed us into the game in that first 45 at all.

I've seen it all season. When teams up the tempo and pressure us we just cannot go with them. It's why we've squandered so many fucken leads this season. When teams press us and chase the game we go to fucken bits, across the board. From Chelsea to Reading it's the same story.
We cannot play with a lead, and look much better when we're chasing the game. When teams sit deep, and give us time on the ball, we look good and actually have enough creativity to break down defences.

With teams in the lower half fighting for their lives, their really wont be any bankers to come. Plus we've got to visit Old Trafford, the Emirates, White Hart Lane, the tinmine and the Bridge....fuck, CL is a tall order.

Steven Telford
154 Posted 22/01/2013 at 00:19:05
Tony #544

You say: "It's Moyes and his tactics that cause these results — nothing else."

Well, ok........ but by the same logic, don't forget to give him all the credit when things go well.

Max Murphy
155 Posted 22/01/2013 at 00:17:51
An absolute disgrace. Everton are supposed to be challenging for the top 4 finish – what a joke. We should have been 3 - 0 down by half-time. All the players were bad. In the first half losing 50-50 balls, no commitment and a complete lack of enthusiasm.

Neville awful, Naismith rubbish and Jelavic was his normal ineffective self. But Osman had a nightmare – should have been taken off at half-time. Coleman gets injured start of second half and Anichebe came on. He was better than the rest. He put over a perfect cross to Jelavic – all he had to do was tap it in – but true to form, completely mis-kicked it and the chance went begging. The penny finally dropped with Moyes. HE SUBBED JELAVIC on 66 mins. 15 games too late! Had many chances does he give that player? Get shut of him!
Mirallas came on for him - and added some badly needed action.
Overall one to forget.

At best, mid-table beckons, with the RS overtaking us soon. I blame Moyes for his team selection and pathetic use of the bench. He's had ample opportunity to use Vellios, Oviendo, Hitzelburger but no - 5 minutes between the lot of them. Vellios doesn't even make the bench. Moyes is afraid to drop his favourites. Then he sends Barkley to Leeds! I cannot understand his thinking or his tactics.

He's lost the plot. Why does he sign players and then doesn't use them??? I'm afraid we're going nowhere with Moyes. We had a squad that could have finished in the top 4 - but drawing 11 games! We have to go away to Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and RS.

Bye Bye Blues

Steven Telford
156 Posted 22/01/2013 at 00:27:47
CL in indeed tall order. But chin up, some of the big teams also have to play each other and, if anything, we seem so far to have player better against bigger teams this season.

I dare say, there seemed even to be a motivational issue with us today.

Tom Dodds
157 Posted 22/01/2013 at 00:30:52
Max(555)...

Just a small thing you left out: 'And one key player comes back... And one key player promptly takes his place on the treatment table.'

Everton's guardian angel must be Hal Roach.

Patrick Murphy
159 Posted 22/01/2013 at 00:34:45
I reckon we'll need 10 wins from those 15 games and unless lady luck smiles on us I fear we won't make that total. Arsenal play WHU on Wednesday so we must hope that they slip up, but it is Spurs that look the most capable team at the moment and they have winnable fixtures up until the first week in March so they could be out of sight before we know it.
Tony Marsh
160 Posted 22/01/2013 at 00:30:04
Steve Telford... I will give Moyes credit when results and performances deserve it. My point is that, for ten years, it's been a recurring theme. The footy is the same apart from glimpses off nice stuff.

The team tonite displayed all the old flaws of many a Moyes side from the past. Our best XI for years play no better than the nightmare relegation outfits from the Moyes era.

Steven Telford
162 Posted 22/01/2013 at 00:44:11
Tony, Max

Aye, and it’s also Moyes’s FAULT that we are 5th.
And it’s his FAULT that we took 3 points of Spurs and Man Utd.
And it’s his FAULT that we took points off Man City and Arsenal.

Indeed he has a lot to answer for, I don’t know how we stick him.

Max Murphy
163 Posted 22/01/2013 at 00:44:56
Steven. We are Everton FC. We need the CL. We were capable of doing it this season, but we've bottled it. Reaching 5th means Jack Shit! And it's only a matter of time before we lose that position and start falling down the table.

We give Moyes credit for keeping us in the Premier League – but we want trophies, we want CL – or we'll never progress. Moyes can only take us so far. He's had over 10 years and we've won nothing.

Graham Shaw
166 Posted 22/01/2013 at 00:45:59
Max at 555 a little excessive don't you think? Soton played well, a couple of midfielders there who were impressive particularly the French guy. Certainly closed down Pienaar and Osman very quickly. Anichebe and Mirallas gave us different options which we didn't have and we might have won in the end. Their goalkeeper made a couple of good saves too. Disappointing but we are still in the mix.
Max Murphy
167 Posted 22/01/2013 at 00:55:08
Graham, Southampton played well because they had more of the ball – courtesy of our players passing it too them. The only time Neville passed it to one of his own players was when he did his favourite sideways/back pass.
Steavey Buckley
168 Posted 22/01/2013 at 00:33:22
Everton at the moment are working on empty. Need to be freshened up asap.
Peter Cummings
169 Posted 22/01/2013 at 01:11:27
We've seen some poor displays but this has to be the worst this season... eerily similar to the Leeds fiasco, but at least we got an entirely undeserved point. It appears we can't seem to cope with cold weather, the only bright spark was, of all people, Howard who stopped a first-half rout. We need a 100% improvement if we want to get to the next round of the FA Cup on Saturday.
Harold Matthews
170 Posted 21/01/2013 at 23:50:23
Thanks, Si. I missed most of the live forum due to a computer security blockage which warned... "Leave this website immediately.It is very dangerous and someone is trying to intercept your messages"... wierd stuff.

Yes, just like last time, he was stationary and this was due to the ball being played straight at him instead of a few feet further forward where he allows it to run across his body before stabbing it home with his right foot. Something we have seen him do on numerous occasions.

Even so, the lad is a shadow of his former self. His legs look heavy and his once effervescent spirit has completely drained away. A sorry sight indeed.

Yes Patrick. One right wing cross all night.It's not good enough. Our entire right wing nullified by a 17-year-old fullback who would not even get on our bench. It difficult to imagine DM coming up with a radical solution but if Coleman is injured he may have to.

Paul Ferry
171 Posted 22/01/2013 at 03:34:29
Steve Telford (563) you pressed all the buttons of what my post (550) was taking to task. Thanks mate, I owe you one.

That post of yours was a pitch perfect example of the crap we have to put up with from peeps who can't see beyond their Moyes lens and, sadly, slump into by now hollow platitudes of why we ought to be singing psalms and rattling tambourines rather than having the absolute audacity and breathtaking arrogance and high horsemanship to actually question Moyes and his tactics from time to time, when it is necessary, deserved and realisitic to do so.

Peter Barry
172 Posted 22/01/2013 at 03:38:57
The question has to be asked – Why does Moyes persist in playing Naismith when its painfully obvious to all and sundry that he is absolute DROSS??? Is it 'cos he's a fellow Jock?

I mean Moyes has a history with useless Jock players – look at McFadden coming back last season and Davey Weir back on the books again too. Both of them absolutely no use at all to Everton and both drains on the finances which we are being constantly told are tight – and both Jocks.

David Moyes: Everton's manager for all seasons – well for HALF a season anyway.

Paul Dark
173 Posted 22/01/2013 at 03:52:47
Osman wasn't so much poor as characteristically shocking. I'll say it again: he shouldn't even be in the squad, let alone the team.

Fellaini was, again, our best player.

Brian Dagnall
174 Posted 22/01/2013 at 04:09:46
Positives first, I thought all the back-line, the goalie, and Fellaini had good games. When I watch them they seem in control of their game, Jags pumps the ball forward a bit aimlessly, but generally they are pretty good, Neville included.

Midfield was poor, Piennar had a bad game (he's had a few lately) Osman was his usual self, caught in possession time and ime again, and blondie Naismith at times couldn't even get a kick.

Mirallas is bound to be off the pace at first, but he looks like he can play, and big Vic looked pretty dangerous to me also.

Which brings me nicely to my pet subject. I never played centre half in my old footy days, but I reckon I could play centre half NOW as long as I could play every week against Jelavic. I'm poor in the air, so is he, I'm a bit slow, so is he, and he can't control the ball .... but I can. I got in trouble on TW a while back calling Jelly a carthorse.

Haven't see anything this season to change my mind. Gawd I hope I'm wrong.

Anyway with no midfield (Felli excluded) and no CF, we have to be happy with a point.

Paul Walsh
175 Posted 22/01/2013 at 04:17:02
“Osman wasn't so much poor as characteristically shocking. I'll say it again: he shouldn't even be in the squad, let alone the team."

I have read some reactionary nonsense in these comments but this is the most absurd of the lot. Osman didn't have a great game last night but otherwise he's been superb for us this season. A view held by not just the vast majority of Evertonians but many informed observers outside of the club too. For shame.

Paul Ferry
176 Posted 22/01/2013 at 04:36:27
Paul (Walsh) — how on earth do you know that your rosy view of Osman is 'A view held by not... the vast majority of Evertonians'? You've conducted scientific polls? You've asked all of us? There's been a vote I missed?

Osman splits Blues more than most of our squad. He was a pile of shit today and his form has dipped worryingly over the last month or so with one exception. Over the last decade he has blown hot and cold.

I love him for his loyalty and professionalism but he all too often drives me crazy on the pitch. But it's nice that you speak up on behalf of all of us. Osman for me is an enigma but I believe deep down that he is not a top notch player wide, inside, or behind #9.

For me, Osman and Neville sum up why we will be for a little while to come and for a while now the nearly men, perennial close also-rans, the good old non Sky-four/five/six Best of the Rest.

Eric Myles
177 Posted 22/01/2013 at 05:02:19
Don't we practice passing and ball control in training? Or do they assume that as professional footballers they should be getting the basics right by now?
Anto Byrne
178 Posted 22/01/2013 at 04:25:31
Time to rest several players including Jelavic and Pieannar, maybe Baines as a way of freshening them up. What about a Velios/Anchibe forward line? Oviado and Nevlle full backs.

We never see anything left field from Moyes, so predictable and he comes on the box and says he is happy with a point. If Moyes does go would they consider Adkins?
Roman Sidey
180 Posted 22/01/2013 at 02:00:55
We will not finish fourth – you heard it here first. We've dropped points to QPR, Reading, Southampton, Wigan, Norwich, Newcastle, Swansea etc etc. People may point out that we have beaten Utd and Spuds and drawn with Arsenal and City, plus we USUALLY do well against Chelsea. Well, there's only five or six teams that are consistently better than us, which means there are 14 or 15 teams below us. Guess where the big points on offer are.

Quick question: does anyone think that Moyes watched replays of our games, or just make his judgments based on what he sees from ground level? I guarantee that the starting line-up for the next game or two will be the same as last nights, unless he has now dropped Jelavic. Neville and Naismith are there to stay.

What I don't understand is why Moyes signs players he has no intention of using? He didn't have to extend Hitzlsperger's contract, but he did. Now, we have Neville in the middle absolutely dragging everyone down to his level while he could have a youngster on the bench instead of a 30-year-old who could actually contribute.

Reactionary calls for Vic to start are just that. He only performs to his best when he's brought on - a starting spot doesn't seem to agree with him, and coming from a rugby background I appreciate that.

Back to Neville: he must know how bad he has become. What self-respecting person would continue past the general age of retirement when they quite obviously can't keep up with the game?

Peter Warrington
181 Posted 22/01/2013 at 04:05:14
Jelavic needs to go to the training ground and bury 100 of those sitters before getting picked again. It's a basic error in technique or shit concentration and confidence, possibly both. Any of us would have at least made contact even on our weaker sides. It's been going on for games and is not good enough, and to keep picking him sends the message that form does not matter. Nil satis week-knee excluded?
Paul Gladwell
182 Posted 22/01/2013 at 07:15:45
Mark 545 not exactly teeing him up! anichebe sat him down with a knife and fork last night just like he was against Swansea Chelsea,Fulham away and many other games he has wasted simple chances.
I have spent all season arguing with my father in law who wants Jelavuc dropped, I thought he was talking bollocks, now Anichebe offers more and I never dreamed I would say that, In all these drawn matches he has wasted clear cut chances that he would have put away last year, chances that would have seen us in the top three.
James Fletcher
184 Posted 22/01/2013 at 08:15:42
I think we've all seen Jelly miss far too many clear cut chances now and it's getting increasingly frustrating. It's not even like he's working the keeper as more often than not he's mis-kicking the shot.
Bobby Thomas
186 Posted 22/01/2013 at 08:26:37
With the circumstances that Southampton are in and results being fairly kind over the weekend, it was a fantastic opportunity to keep right in the mix for fourth.

Firstly, I thought the Saints players were great on the night especially first half. They were ultra-professional and didn't fold, mope or cave as some, myself included, had hoped.

However, we were so flat it was untrue. That’s the worrying thing for me. I can handle a bad performance, it does happen. But the players look physically and mentally very flat and this is worrying. The same group of players are going to have to raise themselves for the cup and they are going to have to find some reserves of inspiration from somewhere.

With limited options and no cash to lay out on a quick fix, how do we freshen it?

The return of Mirallas is well timed as we need some variation to the play and opens up the possibility of playing him wide or off the striker and dropping Fella back in mid.

Anichibe has been knocking on the door for a while now and maybe he should get the gig against Bolton. Jelavic has needed a break for a while. He is definitely suffering for confidence, but playing lone striker week in week out takes its toll and it’s not like he doesn’t graft. Moyes does ask a lot and it’s impossible to keep your sharpness and play that role week in week out and not dip without rotation. Its massively demanding physically and, as we are seeing, mentally.

Anichibe has been back a whole now. He's started some games, had others off the bench and has, I presume, been training regularly. He looks lean and in great nick and maybe for the first time in years after a plague of injuries he is ready for a run of games.

Oviedo has had an opportunity to get his head around things. He looks to have a bit about him, give him a bit more game time, even off the bench, left or right. It’s an option we are going to have to consider using; some players like Piennar are looking very flat indeed and could do with a little break.

We don’t have many options and I can fully understand Moyes sticking with his big players. But we need some rotation, variation and a bit of flexibility in the next few weeks as some players appear to be hitting the wall mentally and physically.

Steve King
187 Posted 22/01/2013 at 09:03:20
My mate summed it up for me last night when he said "That was a Walter Smith performance that..."
and on the same theme Naismith is a Walter Smith style player, as in he runs around a lot, goes through the motions, but all this is done to cover up the fact that he is utter shit!!
Tony J Williams
188 Posted 22/01/2013 at 09:03:20
Sod off Roman, I and many others have been saying 4th is a pipe dream.... you heard it here first.....sssake?

I can sort of understand Naismith's inclusion, as he constantly wins headers from Howard's punts upfield.....it's just on the floor where he has problems; however we know that once Mirallas is fully fit, Naismith will be back on the bench again.

It will be interesting to see what Moyes does when both Coleman and Gibson are fit together....if it ever happens.... will he bench Neville?

Paul Andrews
189 Posted 22/01/2013 at 10:00:28
Opposing teams are overloading their right hand side to negate Baines & Pienaar — have a look how many times during a game they are outnumbered 3 to 2. Coaches have got onto it being our biggest threat.

We need to offer an alternative. Problem is we have no money for even a loan signing.

Time to sell Fellaini? I would if Moyes was given the money to sign a wide right attack-minded quick player, box-to-box midfielder and a right back.

Thomas Windsor
190 Posted 22/01/2013 at 10:07:35
Not a good match to watch. We were lucky to get a point – but didn't Southampton come back from two-nil down away at Chelsea to get a 2 - 2 draw? So they are not a bad team on their day.

But a few new faces in the team might help plus... why play Naismith over Vellios?

Gavin Ramejkis
191 Posted 22/01/2013 at 10:11:26
I feel sorry for the poor bastards that paid to watch that last night it was utter shite. I am working in Scotland and watched first half in a pub before I walked out. Naegood is fucking useless and a man down him being on the wing more so with Oviedo and Mirallas on bench if he is scared of Mirallas getting hurt don't even put him on the bench, Osman kept falling over and the first half was like the Alamo. Naegood was summed up to a T when he waxes lyrical about missing the auld firm game then one on one with Borat and he fucking hurdles him leaving Borat an easy collect. I missed the silky lardy skills of Anichebe second half and Mirallas getting on pitch but gladly had stopped watching way before that, same old overcautious Gollum and his hard on for shit Scottish players has resumed, have we had our good jalf season early this time? Not disrespecting Southampton but if you want a CL place you need to be beating better teams than that, piss poor again
Amit Vithlani
192 Posted 22/01/2013 at 10:09:15
Player ratings wise, Howard was my MoM, Anichebe and Felli deserve a 7. Peanuts went into hiding in the first half but once Big Vic came on and started to make proper runs, taking defenders away from him, he linked up really well with Baines. The criticism of Baines is unbelievable; he was a 6 at worst. Peanuts a 5, and Ossie was poor (a 4), but being surrounded by 3 physical battlers (Prado, Cork and Schneiderlin) was his undoing. When the Saints played deeper in the 2nd half he got alot more joy.

Absolutely gutted for Jelly. He looked completely out of it. No off the ball running, couldn't control the ball and didn't get anywhere a shot off on goal. The glimmer was that for his fluffed chance he showed a glimpse of quality - held his run then broke the offside trap. This boy is a more than capable goal getter but Moyes must show top notch man management skills and give him a huge dose of self belief and soon.

There is an unsettling trend developing. Teams are finding it easier to defend against us. Drop deep, let us have the ball, and Jags and Distin will punt it long, and with Jelly's confidence shot, we won't hold up the ball, especially if Felli is man marked. Vic has been in better this season, but isn't consistent. Or, they can press us high up, and if the ref is lenient, Peanuts, Nais and Ossie will get bullied and we won't be able to keep the ball.

Either way we will be in for a shit run of draws or defeats unless we bring something different. Other than Mirallas and his dodgy hammies, can't see where that will come from in this squad. We need a player or two on loan. Perhaps a pacy striker and a battling centre mid.

Chris Perry
194 Posted 22/01/2013 at 10:41:10
It makes me so fucking angry to read that Moyes and some of the players have come out and stated how disappointed they were and frustrated they were at last nights result. Simple really they should give up a week's money and refund the poor bastards that gave up 90 minutes of their life to watch the shite that they served up.

It does not take a genius to see that Neville is a complete waste of space in midfield, as is Naismith, it was like playing with 9 men! Then take out the shambolic Osman and poor Coleman and you can see why Southampton took the piss out of us.

Southampton: strong in the tackle, fast to move the ball, first to the second ball.

Everton: weak in the tackle, slow to break, lack of imagination, never in the midfield battle.

Ratings as seen by a frozen, bored, humiliated Everton supporter in seat 1153, row E block 44.

Howard 7 Good saves, not too much in second half
Coleman 4 Headless, clueless Chicken
Distin 6 Tried, but out muscled too easily
Jagielka 6 Tried, but out muscled too easily
Baines 6 Not really given too many opportunaties to get forward
Piennar 4 Flicks etc just not working
Osman 3 Too lightweight, wants far too long on the ball
Naismith 3 Joke
Fellaini 6 Tried but on his own as usual
Neville 2 Worst player on the pitch by a mile
Jelavic 5 Not being allowed to be the striker he is.


Back to the Everton of Old Again.

Tony J Williams
195 Posted 22/01/2013 at 11:10:28
Gavin, Moyes explained pre-match why Mirallas was on the bench. The reserve game had been called off, if he would have played that, he probably would have started. Bloody stupid snow.....
Steavey Buckley
196 Posted 22/01/2013 at 12:50:16
If am the opposing manager and saw Neville and Osman in midfield on the team sheet alongside a misfiring Jelavic, I would just say to the team, take care of Baines and the rest is easy. Score a goal and the game is won.
Tony J Williams
197 Posted 22/01/2013 at 13:28:57
Yep, Steavey, it's that easy....
Craig Walker
198 Posted 22/01/2013 at 13:35:42
Positives for me:-

Howard did well
We got a point
Mirallas came back
We kept a clean sheet
Jags defended quite well but his ball distribution was shocking
Anichebe had a good game I thought and was a threat

Negatives:-
Naismith
Hoofball
Pienaar keeps stopping and letting defenders get back

Osman got over ran in midfield numerous times
Jelavic had one chance and fluffed it. Spent time on the wings and chasing to the corners
Fellaini was awful
Neville will never be a centre midfield player despite what their Gary says in the build up
We should have lost

Jamie Barlow
199 Posted 22/01/2013 at 13:33:43
Its not that easy, they couldn't score.
Roman Sidey
200 Posted 22/01/2013 at 13:40:23
Tony, I know you and others have been saying it's a pipe dream - I was just being wordy.

As for "It will be interesting to see what Moyes does when both Coleman and Gibson are fit together....if it ever happens.... will he bench Neville?"
Sadly, I think you and I both know the answer to that question, and it doesn't paint a pretty picture.

Jamie Barlow
201 Posted 22/01/2013 at 13:49:37
What pissed me off the most last night was the passing. I can't remember seeing a player run on to a pass in front of him. Its always straight to the other man or slightly behind him causing the attack to slow right down.

Oh, and the hoofball. I reckon Jags, Distin and Neville had a comp to see who could hit it longest and highest.

I know Naismith is having a mare but it would probably help him a little bit if he would buy some football boots instead of playing in fuckin slippers. Ive never seen anyone slip as much as him. His balance is awful and he turns like a 10 ton truck.

Kev Johnson
202 Posted 22/01/2013 at 14:00:31
Jamie - I know what you mean about the pace of the passes. Just seen last night's highlights and was surprised to find that the Jelavic miss wasn't as bad as everyone reported. Victor did well to get the ball across but it was straight to Jelavic instead of in front of him. Result: the ball gets caught under J's feet and he makes a hash of it. Maybe he timed the run wrongly, but the problem was that the ball was not in front of him to run onto and make a good connection.
Steavey Buckley
203 Posted 22/01/2013 at 14:19:10
Jamie Barlow: There is no good enough holding midfielder (s) for Jags and Distin to pass to. Hence, route1.
Andy Gleaves
204 Posted 22/01/2013 at 14:17:44
It will be interesting to see Saturday's team selection and more importantly how they go at the game; it's about time some of the "part of the furniture" players, ie, Osman, Neville, were either rested or fucked off!! They're not up to it! When the game becomes a bit fast or physical we're in shit when these two are playing.

Also, yes, Jelavic missed a great opportunity but, in all honesty, he's doing far too much team work, chasing back, defending etc etc, then to take him off and replace him with an attacking exciting winger – he must have been sick as a parrot!! Mirallas is probably the only one at the moment who could find the killer pass or cross for Jelavic to put away!!

Baines and Pienaar, as much as I love them both, are being snuffed out at the moment and we look to obvious in our play, when that fails we hoof it up field BIG DUNC STYLE to Fellaini.

THAT FUCKING OSMAN should've been dragged off – he gave the ball away all night, no pace, cant get stuck in!! Naismith sadly also doesn't look the part.

Ahh well... roll on Bolton.

Jamie Barlow
205 Posted 22/01/2013 at 14:25:32
I agree Steavey. I would be nice to see any of our midfield come back to collect a simple ball off our centre backs.

There's a Spanish lad at Arsenal who does it quite often.

Steavey Buckley
206 Posted 22/01/2013 at 14:32:03
Tony J Williams: The last 2 games ended 0 - 0. Part of the job was done, but the opposition failed to score. And these 2 teams are not world beaters. Come up against teams who can score, 4th spot will be a distant memory. That's if Moyes continues to persevere with an out-of-sorts Jelavic, Osman and Neville in midfield, and Naismith/Anichebe on the right wing.
Phil Walling
207 Posted 22/01/2013 at 14:05:45
Face up to it, only the mug punters expect CL qualification. Apart from the Premier League place money, Kenwright would shit himself if faced with having to bring in real quality in the summer and the manager would be on about knives and gunfights again.

All the sums and bonuses are based on finishing tenth and anything better means bonus time for Moyes et al! That's why Everton are always said to overachieve when finishing in 6/7/8th.

So get real — WE may WANT for more but we're the only ones who EXPECT it!

Roman Sidey
208 Posted 22/01/2013 at 14:36:00
I was talking to a colleague the other day about passing. He's Swiss and very much into the German game. I told him that our problem is we never pass to space but always to feet. He told me that is the best way to play football and that passing to space gets you nowhere. Is this an actual dichotomy of opinion in football, or is he crazy?
Patrick Murphy
209 Posted 22/01/2013 at 14:45:20
Phil, you are right in the fact that a top 6-8 finish was as much as we could have hoped for at the start of the season and perhaps a tilt at one of the cups. But with Everton under DM getting a better than average start and the inconsistency of the usual suspects, most of us thought that an opportunity had arrived, but as has happened far too often, we have failed to take advantage.

The reasons why this has happened are two fold, our defence when we were playing in an attacking style couldn't get a clean sheet to save their lives and now that the defence is sorted, although under more pressure, we can't seem to create and convert the chances.

I also agree that Kenwright – if we achieved CL football – would be under tremendous pressure to bolster the squad without selling our main assets. But if we miss out on Europe, he will be able to carry on as before, by using Baines and Fellaini to raise money and for the Manager to try to replace them with cheaper versions and maybe a couple of additions.

If UEFA and the FA want the game to be more competitive, they should limit first team squads to a maximum of 25-30 players and call a halt to the loan system, which in my opinion would enable clubs without mega bucks to improve the quality of their squads.

My worry for Everton is that we will be in the same boat as Newcastle this time next season.

Max Murphy
210 Posted 22/01/2013 at 14:14:41
Most of what I said in #555 has been echoed in subsequent postings.

Do the people who defend Jelavic actually watch the games? He would struggle to get into a Championship side. Remember his mis-kicks (sorry, he never even made contact with most of them): Stoke, Chelsea, and last night. He's slow, laborious, and has no ball control.

Enough has been said about Neville, Naismith and Osman. None of them should be in the team. But here's a question I can't work out: Moyes pulls Neville off at HT against Swansea. So between then and last night, Neville has done something miraculous to convince Moyes to select him against Southampton. And you can guarantee that for the next league game he'll field the usual suspects: Jelavic, Naismith, Neville and Osman.

And now the "Bench". Have you noticed when the likes of Barkley, Oviedo or Vellios play well when they come off the bench, he invariably punishes them by not playing them in future games? Vellios has always played well – he's fast, good ball control, and great in the air. For the miserly few minutes he's allowed to play he always makes an impact. He does his job in the reserves and bangs in the goals – yet Moyes won't give him a chance. The same thing is happening to Oviedo.

But the big mystery for me is the treatment of Barkley. We have all seen him play – a stunning game against Villarreal in a pre-season, great coming off the bench. Moyes recalls him from Sheffield Wednesday – presumably for cover as we had long-term injuries to Gibson, Neville and Mirallas...

We have a small squad as it is, so the next thing is he's put out on loan to Leeds. Can anyone see the logic in that??? Are there brown envelopes being exchanged??

I am unsure as to the logistics and payments regarding on-loan players – but I can't see this being a decision of Moyes. If it is, I have lost what little faith I had in him.

Ken Crowther
211 Posted 22/01/2013 at 14:29:17
On another thread Roman Sidey # 699 said, in words or substance, "I chose to became an Evertonian in 2002/3." Should be 'nuff said; but because Roman is as thick as a brick, I'll spell it out... Roman, Evertonians don't choose, they are chosen.
I don't know where you come from; but for sure you aren't a Scouser.

Winston Williamson #448 "Howard - Shit"... Winston you know Fuck All. As you realised when you posted a U-Turn #462.

Andy Kay #524 - There speaks a bloke who has some idea of what he's talking about.

How many of the Sidey/Williamson style clowns have ever been to Goodison, much less the outposts of the empire like Southampton.

Yes I was there, yes we were crap in the first half; and I came away disappointed; but then I got my act together, thought about it, and realised that it was a bloody good goal-less draw; I don't know whether you guys got your (no) money's worth on Sky (or whatever); but the £60 that it cost me was well spent.

Amit Vithlani
212 Posted 22/01/2013 at 15:27:38
Ken Crowther. Whilst I don't agree with every post from Roman, to suggest (a) punters are "clowns" if they don't attend games / watched the match on the box or (b) you watching the game somehow elevates your opinion is pure, unmitigated dogshite.

Good on you if you felt you got value for money for your night out, but frankly from where I sat (on me couch in Johannesburg, infront of the box) I saw the team in blue get completely bullied in the first half, lucky to go in at in 0-0.
As someone else said, we dodged a bullet.

(BTW, I am no Scouser, but am proud to be part of the blues ever growing international fanbase).

David Price
213 Posted 22/01/2013 at 15:46:44
The obvious, should have been dead and buried at half time but for the excellent Tim Howard and a superb back line. The rest were awful. Then CREDIT Moyes for the substitutions and changing the flow of the game. Jelavic puts his chance away and we'd be singing the praises of playing poor but getting a one nil win just like Man Utd do. But we didn't and the slagging off reached fever pitch.
We look a tired team, this time last year we brought in a fresh Pienaar, Gibson Jelavic and Donavon enabling us to kick on. The big worry is no-one is brought in and yes, more draws will follow and 4th place goes begging.
However, here is the win win situation facing the club. Spend £20m NOW and get the two/three players we need. The payback comes from,
Option A Recoup this spend from Champions League position
Option B Failure to qualify, means selling Fellaini.
Not the best option but we have to have a go.
Ken Crowther
214 Posted 22/01/2013 at 15:59:09
Amit ~732, Sorry! I thought I said "we were crap in the first half" - must have been imagining it, glad you corrected me.

As a life-long Evertonian, which you clearly aren't, I'm slowly learning to recognise the fact that our game is now a global phenomenon, and anybody from South Africa (or wherever) who has joined our ranks earns my admiration and respect for not choosing Manure, Chelski, Citteh or (God forbid) the RS.

Having, as a schoolboy, been privilaged to play one game (and only one - a final - we won) on the Holy Ground, I am protective of my Scouse status - I was a crap goalkeeper in a very good side, so I know about "Shit Goalkeepers" because I was one!

Armchair supporters are fine. (Snigger, snigger)

Tony J Williams
215 Posted 22/01/2013 at 17:01:26
It's funny how perceptions are different. The lad on the desk next to me in work is a Chavski fan.

Start of the conversation went like this -

Me - "Did you watch that shite last night?"
Him - "I actually thought it was a good game to watch"

Strange times hey?

Michael Kenrick
216 Posted 22/01/2013 at 17:15:02
It's odd because the quality of football was really not that great... but the paid pundits talked up the game, presumably from the neutrals' perspective, probably due to the evenness of the battle, and the amount of goalmouth action.

But as an Evertonian, all I felt was increasing maddening frustration, as echoed everywhere on here. Indeed, when it became obvious we were getting nowhere, I mentally switched off / gave up... it was that bad.

Jack Okell
217 Posted 22/01/2013 at 17:18:25
Have to agree Michael. I was pretty shocked to see the game labelled as exciting and thrilling. Was it??

As for people wishing Neville and Osman didn't get a game... Who else have we got? There's no use in bemoaning Moyes, when he doesn't have sufficient back-up. Now is the time for the filthy rich Board to use some personal funds until we can repay then with the TV money or Fellaini transfer funds. Simply, if we don't sign in this window, we are never getting CL football.

Brent Stephens
218 Posted 22/01/2013 at 17:27:52
Yes, I switched off as well, mentally not literally. I think the thing is possibly that we've been raising our own expectations as fans this season, so if we don't get a win, it's disaster. Is it that our perceptions are warped through expectation? Because it's interesting if neutrals saw it as a decent game. Maybe that says a lot about the importance to some of only goalmouth action –- there's more to a game than that in terms of quality and I'm still convinced it was not a quality game from our point of view.
Douglas Turner
219 Posted 22/01/2013 at 17:25:31
The Sutton game couldn't have come a worse time for us! We lost the 2 points because They were playing out of their skin for their new manager, each one were fighting for their jobs! (like we should every week!) That Redshite Lambert plays out of his skin every time he plays us anyway and that should have been incentive enough for our lads to step it up one! Although their 12th man (the Sutton crowd) were charged up more than ever due to the sacking of Nigel Atkins the ref didn't seem fased and did his job (ignored their constant crys for penalty, handballs and all that crap!) Everton should have seen this coming? I love Moyes to bits but IMO he got this so wrong! Kev should have started as Jelly needs a rest! Vick is on form so he should have replaced Nace! Nuts should have been replaced by Oviedo at half time too! And whatever Moyes told the boys at half time, just had little to no effect when he had more than enough material to throw at them!
Col Noon
220 Posted 22/01/2013 at 18:00:14
To say that was painful would be an understatement. Tim Howard excluded; the rest on show were abysmal. We should of be been dead and buried at HT, second half was a slight improvement and we had chances but dear god the inability to keep the ball was embarrassing. I have said from day one that Steven Naismith is tripe and I stand by it. Just why Moyes perseveres with him I will never know. Fellaini couldn't be assed and to think he is rated at £30M!!!!?!! Jelavic looks like (sadly) he is to be 1/2 season wonder. He looks like he has never played football before. I am struggling to figure out what he brings to the team at present? If we play as bad as that on Saturday we are going out of the FA Cup, and with a whimper. I will be there to witness it whatever the outcome. UP THE TOFFEES???? Erm I hope so.
Paul Ferry
221 Posted 22/01/2013 at 18:56:38
(726) Ken Crowther you sound like a decent sort of bloke dishing out your judgements on others and their pedigrees and backgrounds from your perch on high. Your 'I was there' does not entitle you to anything apart from my respect for being there and splashing the sponds. It does not privilege you or give you some sort of elevated platform from which to dispense your opinions of others.

So, tell me, am I less entitled than you and less of a blue than you with less of a view of matters than you? I was born and raised in Liverpool, I had a season ticket from 1978-2002 (and rarely missed always from 1983 on), since 2002 I have lived in the State, and yesterday I couldn't get to the match as I was in Chicago.

Climb down from your high horse soft lad.

Er, Dave Price (735) the first sub was a forced sub and he ought to have made a third; Osman and Naismith, who were still on the pitch at the final whistle, were both utter shite. Your views are, needless to say, entirely credible and informative but not helped by your claim that we signed Donovan this time last year.

Ken Crowther
222 Posted 22/01/2013 at 19:23:27
Hi Paul (#810)

"Opinions of others"...No. "Opinions to others"...Yes.

My season ticket was from 1955/1982, so I reckon I beat you by a year or so, however yours was more recent than mine, so we'll call that a draw, shall we?

I now live in rural Worcestershire, which doesn't match Chicago for impact; but it does mean that it's usually easier and more convenient to travel to away games which are south of a line Birmingham to the Wash than it is to get to The Grand Old Lady, and you'll gather (from the S/T starting date) that I'm past the first flush of youth.

I haven't been called "soft lad" for years, makes me quite home-sick and nostalgic. (sniff, sniff).

Roman Sidey
223 Posted 22/01/2013 at 20:18:59
Ken, where the fuck did that come from? I don't care if I get a ban for this: Fuck you.
In your logic, I was "chosen" to support Everton with absolutely no knowledge of the club or its history, so, imagine my joy when I found out I'd been "chosen" to support the rival club of the team that about 10 of my mates support for various reasons. It's people like you that make me think I should have followed my grandfather's footsteps and followed Arsenal - at least then I'd be allowed to whinge about the lack of trophies in the cabinet without this blind support of a manager that clearly has such a fear of success that he indoctrinates his followers with dreams of mid-table obscurity.
Roman Sidey
224 Posted 22/01/2013 at 20:36:39
Also, Ken, apparently I'm "thick as a brick". I'd love to sit down and have a chat with you about things and get you judge just how think I am.
John Ford
225 Posted 22/01/2013 at 20:39:30
Roman the post was going so well, justifiably miffed at personal insults , but then you couldn't resist your usual modus of exaggerating to illustrate a point and again look daft in doing so. Noones interested in settling for mid table obscurity, least of allMoyes. look at our league finishes. Everyone wants more but he reasons are monumentally obvious as to why we don't get it.

If you think anyone here is going to win anything without shit loads of cash and if you think we are even going to consistently challenge for trophies without even a mediocre budget then you continue to be deluded mate!

Kudos for choosing the blues though, especially at the time you did!

Roman Sidey
226 Posted 22/01/2013 at 21:02:12
So this turn in the thread is my fault, John? I thought I was being quite reasonable and then I got attacked by Ken for not being a true or knowledgeable Evertonian.
Ian Bennett
227 Posted 22/01/2013 at 21:04:27
Jesus - and that was after a nil nil. Thank god we didn't lose!

Hope roman doesn't get a ban - can he appeal? Who sits on the panel? Where was the referee?

Roman Sidey
228 Posted 22/01/2013 at 21:15:32
Just a careless high boot, Ian?
John Ford
229 Posted 22/01/2013 at 21:27:14
So now we need another high one to even things up.
Roman Sidey
230 Posted 22/01/2013 at 21:33:18
What we need is the optimism that hasn't been seen around these parts since the days of Doddy.
Kevin Hudson
231 Posted 22/01/2013 at 21:20:56
Roman,

Last week you informed us that if we fail to reach the Champions League "we'll be fucked," which I thought was pure hyperbole...now you state that Moyes...."indoctrinates his followers with dreams of mid-table obscurity."

I believe this is wrong on several levels: First, that simply doesn't stack up with either his stated outlook, or record; and second, you imply that you're somehow more ambitious than both Moyes, and the rest of us who do back him.

Again, simply untrue.

Ian Bennett
232 Posted 22/01/2013 at 21:54:28
Some credit to the opposition. I liked shaw, Clyne, puncheon, lambert and Ramires.
Roman Sidey
233 Posted 22/01/2013 at 21:55:46
I still think if we don't make the ECL we'll be fucked, Kevin. How do you think this summer will go if we finish outside the top four? Financially, it might be good for Bill and his boys, but on the field it will be a disaster. I don't think that can be put down to hyperbole.

But after two consecutive 0-0s to teams below us when we could have made up ground on the clubs above us, I now don't think we'll qualify. Make of that what you will, mate.

Peter Mills
234 Posted 22/01/2013 at 22:48:21
In 2013 we have won 2, drawn 2. Since the start of December we have won 5, drawn 4, lost 1. Not bad.
Patrick Fennell
235 Posted 22/01/2013 at 23:00:01
I am shocked we only took 2 points out of 6 the last two games. If only we could bring in two more players before the transfer period is up. Hopefully Mirallas will be ok for the rest of the year now... he's missed so much time it's like a new player joining the squad.

But to look things another way, if you had told me we'd be where we are (5th with 3rd in reach) at this point at the start of the season I'd have taken it in a minute. Just got to start winning the matches we should be winning. Look at how many points we've dropped to the bottom five teams? I need a drink!

Sam Hoare
236 Posted 22/01/2013 at 23:39:25
Roman, even if we did somehow make CL (which looks increasingly unlikely) it will only be a stay of execution. With our small squad and BKs cautious investment strategy we would end up 6-9th next season with maybe 10-20m and a group stage exit if we were lucky. We don't have the platform to sustain it I don't think.
Paul Ferry
237 Posted 22/01/2013 at 23:44:03
Respect Ken (826). 1982 was one of the worst of all years to give up your ST (moving south, I imagine). And respect for going down to Southampton last night in what I suspect is the autumn of life. But I did feel that you were a little harsh and that's why I posted for the most part. But respect for your long long long love of the Blues mate.

ps: Glad the soft lad made you a little winsome for home!!!!

Roman Sidey
238 Posted 22/01/2013 at 23:53:54
I do agree with that, Sam. Pretty sad really that we're damned if we do, and damned if we don't. If we make the ECL, we'll keep some of our better players an extra season, but perhaps be worse off financially by the end of it. If we don't qualify, we'll lose Fellaini and perhaps some others, but could be a little closer to financial stability. I know which one Bill wants.
Kevin Hudson
239 Posted 23/01/2013 at 00:09:57
The phrase: "On the field it will be a disaster," IS hyperbole Roman!
Roman Sidey
240 Posted 23/01/2013 at 00:32:39
Kevin, your use of the term "hyperbole" is, in actual fact, hyperbole.
Si Cooper
241 Posted 23/01/2013 at 00:12:24
Jack (#777) - how about dropping Fellaini back and partnering him with Hitzlsperger, with Victor playing up front instead of Fellaini? We had options not to play Ossie or Neville if the manager had thought it prudent.

Roman, on your 'to feet or to space' theme, I would have thought it depends entirely on the situation. For slick, first-time passing it has to be to feet, but if you want to bypass the opposition quickly a ball into space for someone to run onto will do the job. Being able to get yourself and the ball past a man from a ball to feet is trickier, but useful in tight situations, and maybe this is what your German friend meant as it is the preserve of the top players.

On a similar vein, there was an incident in the first half that made me cringe. We had partially cleared the ball (from a corner I think) and the ball fell to Pienaar on the right. Naismith was in support with one of the oppo in front and some space behind him. You could see Pienaar was wanting Naismith to make a run up the line for Pienaar to either play the ball ahead of him, or switch back inside and carry it himself if the defender pre-empted the pass and went with Naismith. Naismith dawdled and by the time he cottoned on to the possibility the defender had narrowed the angle sufficiently that Pienaar had to play it to his feet rather than a few yards ahead. Unsurprisingly he couldn't quite take it in his stride and the opportunity was lost.

Roman Sidey
242 Posted 23/01/2013 at 01:28:45
Good points, Si. I'm just watching a replay now, and saw Anichebe chest down one of Jags' hoofs for Naismith to play on. He fucked it up, and you can see Vic just sort of slouch as if saying, "What the fuck?" At what point does having a player like Naismith start to affect the attitude of the rest of the players on the field?
Ayman Ghanam
243 Posted 23/01/2013 at 06:43:44
1. We could be sitting comfortably in 4th place (maybe even 3rd) if it weren't for poor refereeing decisions, wasted chances and abysmal games like this one.

2. We need Naismith off immediately and Neville off even quicker. Should have someone like Barkley as an option to play in the middle who can keep things moving forward and have a go. Don't understand why we keep loaning him out when central midfield has been an issue this year.

3. Unfortunately Jelavic is the best striker we have when he is on form but I don't think giving him a break is the solution. Maybe more support with Anichebe who I thought has been a massive attacking influence upfront is the answer. In previous years, I haven't been a fan but he's been great this year.

4. If we can remove the slow disastrous infection that is Neville and Naismith and take a few more risks playing the likes of Oviedo and Barkley, we can still push to make the CL – if not, I worry we may have hit the peak for a number of years to come.. :'(

Ken Crowther
244 Posted 23/01/2013 at 08:50:13
Hi Paul (#907)

Of course it was harsh, otherwise these threads become the Roman Sidey Show; as an alternative to which I'd rather watch "Neighbours" (which I never saw in my life).

In an earlier lifetime I compared him with Martin Mason; so I would like, here and now, to apologise to Martin.

You surmise correctly that the 1982 cessation of Season Ticket coincided with a move south with the job; but we still had a lot of family in the city, and I was young enough to do the 'there and back' journey in a day. Then 1987 heralded a move further south, to Reading, which I didn't like as a place to live; but which did mean that, for the four years we were there, I was very conveniently situated to visit Wembley, which had been the Blues second home for a period.

I don't know about "the autumn of life". As I look out at a foot (or more) of snow, and wonder how the hell I'm going to get hold of some fags for the missus if she runs out, it seems more like "the winter of discontent".

Good luck.

Kevin Hudson
246 Posted 23/01/2013 at 09:22:43
What next, a bear doesn't shit in the woods...?

Roman,

In what universe is forecasting impending "disaster," for Everton, as you did....not hyperbole?!

Would you prefer I thought of it as 'sensationalism,' 'fear-mongering,' or simply-mad-as-a-bag-of-spanners,' instead?!

Ken Crowther
247 Posted 23/01/2013 at 10:18:14
I'm with you, Kevin (#941); but then, I would be; however please don't try to offer common sense debate to Mr. Sidey, it won't work.
Steavey Buckley
248 Posted 23/01/2013 at 10:12:29
Moyes might say that he has no else to play other than Naismith, but what has Oviedo done wrong not to be included in the first 11? He played against Cheltenham and aquitted himself well, when at the time, Moyes promised to play his strong team, without Naismith.
Tony J Williams
249 Posted 23/01/2013 at 10:30:52
The issue Steavey is that Oviedo, when all said and done, is a left sided defensive player.....although his take down and pass at Norwich was class.

Naismith for all his faults is a right sided attacking player. We have heard all the "dour" "negative" jibes aimed at Moyes but it seems that others can suggest playing defensive players now is the way forward.

I hate using this comment, but Moyes "does" see them everyday and one can only assume that Oviedo is not showing enough in training/reserve games to warrant a starting place......fuck knows what Naismith must be like in training.

However, hopefully this point will be redundant now, if Mirallas can stay fit.

Steavey Buckley
250 Posted 23/01/2013 at 12:04:49
Tony J Williams: Since even the lesser teams have rumbled the much vaunted Pienaar/ Bainess attacking forays, it is not stretch of the imagination for Pienaar to play on the right side and Oviedo on the left. Especially, as Pienaar is a right footed player and Oviedo left footed. And as you should know, both are capable of switching sides. Just to confuse some Evertonians, besides the opposition.
Tony J Williams
251 Posted 23/01/2013 at 12:15:08
Sounds good Steavey, but the problem is that Pienaar has been gash for a month or so, so we would have ended up on Monday with the gash Neville, who can't get forward and Pienaar trying to flick/back heel a ball onto an empty space.

On the left you would have two defenders marauding forward but probably heading for the same area.

Now the above is just the musings of a fella who is not involved in football management, so I am guessing Moyes would have thought of that too.

Steavey Buckley
252 Posted 23/01/2013 at 12:29:03
Tony J Williams: It appears you did not watch the game at Cheltenham. Oviedo was one of Everton's best attacking players from the left hand side until having to go to left back when Baines went off injured. Oviedo thrusts (something which is constantly lacking of late) into the opposition created Everton's first goal.
Tony J Williams
253 Posted 23/01/2013 at 12:39:04
Brilliant Steavey, I'm convinced. he played well at an old 4th Division side.......He's just got to start now!
Si Cooper
254 Posted 23/01/2013 at 14:14:13
Think I have called you on this before Tony, and I can't remember getting a reply (sorry if you did and I missed it / have forgotten it or if it wasn't you in the first place). Oviedo should not be considered to be just a defender as I remember clearly when he first popped up on the radar that his ability to play further forward was a definite plus point (as we didn't know then whether Pienaar was liable to be absent for parts of the season). He has also played for his national side in the advanced role.

I don't agree entirely with Steavey, that we need to play him on the left and shift Pienaar to the right, because if paired with two overlapping fullbacks the midfielder doesn't have to be the one going for the bye-line for an orthodox cross.

I will readily concede that Pienaar hasn't been in particularly sparkling form but I disagree with Steavey's assertion that the Baines / Pienaar partnership has been rumbled. It has been obvious for a long while how to counter this threat but what we are seeing at the moment is the lack of any other reliable attacking route which means the opposition can commit extra personnel to counter our left-hand threat.

Roman may have over-done the criticism of Naismith in response to my earlier post, as the main point I was trying to make was a general failure to be on the same wavelength (which training together should give the players) though I am also convinced that Naismith doesn't have the natural instincts to operate as an effective wide midfielder / winger.

I think with an Oviedo / Coleman partnership you would at least see them seizing every opportunity to move it quickly and attack on that flank, and if enough was being created we would benefit directly and it should pull some pressure away from our left-hand side allowing Baines and Pienaar to flourish again. The left-footed defender/ right -footed midfielder combination works on the left, so I don't see why the opposite wouldn't work on the right.

Tony J Williams
255 Posted 23/01/2013 at 15:22:30
Si, if memory serves me, Oviedo was being touted as a replacement for Baines when we all thought he might be on his way to Man U. A left back of the same ilk in his eagerness to get forward...... but still a defender after all.

Coleman is the same, he was right back but because he was handy getting forward he was stuck on the wing. His defensive ability now getting better he is being entrusted with the right back spot.

I imagine that is what will happen with Oviedo, if he makes it. Put on the wing but essentially a defender who likes getting forward.

Roman Sidey
256 Posted 23/01/2013 at 15:56:31
Ken, by the time you'd attacked me I'd made two (maybe one, I can't remember) and was pretty happy to leave it. You don't call it the "Insert-name-of-pro-Moyes-poster-that-is-on-here-as-much-if-not-more-than-Roman Show", so I was just reacting to a fairly unprovoked attack.

Kevin, I will refrain from using any figurative language in future posts. I do sincerely hope that you appreciate the effort I will put into this endeavour.

Steavey Buckley
257 Posted 23/01/2013 at 16:57:17
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Pienaar Steven Pienaar can play well on either wing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryan_Oviedo. Playing positions left back or left side of midfield. More importantly, Bryan Oviedo can do, what others can't do, go past a man and get into the penalty area and cross. Pienaar can do that on the other right side.
Brent Stephens
258 Posted 23/01/2013 at 17:27:58
Ah, that great source of all wisdom - Wikipedia!
Kevin Hudson
259 Posted 23/01/2013 at 17:37:37
Roman,

Have fun with as many linguistic devices as you please; but if you deliberately mis-characterise the manager's 'agenda,' or utilise apocalyptic language when discussing the 5th best team in the country, then it's possible you may get called-out on it again.

Ken Crowther
260 Posted 23/01/2013 at 17:55:19
Mr Sidey, #015

You've just proved what I knew all along, you're much more intelligent that me!

It's not a word that I've used very often on this forum; but I haven't got a fucking clue what you're babbling about.

Would one of my fellow contributors who's got an IQ as low as 170 (around about mine) please explain what this genius is going on about?

Roman Sidey
261 Posted 23/01/2013 at 22:27:56
170? What are you doing here? You should be in the space program.
Si Cooper
262 Posted 24/01/2013 at 00:14:58
Steavey, the reason I would leave Pienaar on the left is because he tends to leave the wide position for Baines who loves to bomb on and cross from the bye-line. I know they mix it up from time to time and Bainesy also loves his direct surges into the penalty area off neat one-twos, but I am not sure Oviedo and he would gel in the same way and worry that they would be treading on each others toes on the side-line all too often. Pienaar is also not naturally a player who will go past a defender and make for the bye-line to get a cross in.

Tony, all I can say is we have different memories from pre-season. I remember the furore when people were assuming that Oviedo was being sought as a replacement for Baines, and that it was relatively quickly defused by the revelation / realisation that Oviedo gave us cover from back to front on the left.

Paul Andrews
263 Posted 24/01/2013 at 07:13:50
John Ford@ 853

"If you think anyone is going to win anything without shed loads of cash your deluded"

Swansea?

Ken Crowther
266 Posted 24/01/2013 at 09:00:10
Mr Sidey #103

That should be "space programme".

The fact that your spell-checker accepts Americanisms doesn't make then acceptable in polite company.

And how do you know that I wasn't?

Roman Sidey
267 Posted 24/01/2013 at 19:35:10
Ken, forgive me for rising above what is the mediocre education system of Queensland, having been taught "program" as the modern spelling, to "programme"'s dated style. Please know that I will be going through your posts in future for pure English. For this thread I will forgive you for beginning your final sentence with "And".
Ken Crowther
269 Posted 25/01/2013 at 08:40:05
Roman.

The convention of not beginning a sentence with a conjunction is MUCH more out-dated than any Colonial perception about the acceptability of Americanisms.

Signing-off for this thread, have the last word if you wish.


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