Besic deal all but done

THE MAN WITH THE PLAN.

And finally we have our first real signing of the summer. Lets hope Galloway, Henen, Lukaku and others quickly follow.

Yeah?

Will Lukaku be the answer to our forward line?

I’d like to see Lukaku as a sort of spiritual jewel in the crown, but that is getting more remote. El jefe must have a few more ideas.

IÂ’m just glad IÂ’m an optimist!!!!!!!!!

His international career had begun three years earlier when, after declining the advances of Germany, the Berlin born eighteen year old made his debut for Bosnia and Herzegovina against Slovakia, becoming the youngest ever player to appear for the country. This came at a time when he was also making small steps in the Hamburg first team, although the following season there were problems when he was suspended from the Hamburg first team due to lack of discipline and, if reports are to believed, was strangled and thrown out of the dressing room by the manager Torsten Fink. This, coupled with a fall out with Bosnia and Herzegovina U21 coach Vlado Jagodic, is not what one wants to hear about a new player, but there are signs he has left this indiscipline behind him.

He went on to join Ferencvaros on a free transfer, often playing as a central defender or right back. His success there was such that he was named the best foreign player in HungaryÂ’s OTP Bank Liga in 2013. One can put the argument forward about how much that really means when one compares the Hungarian league to our own Premier League, but a positive nonetheless. He has drawn compliments for his tenaciousness and his tackling (albeit picking up a few too many cards), all very effective in breaking up opposition attacks. Many pundits were impressed by his creative and forward thinking passing. In the Sky Sports scouting report he is listed in the category "Great Prospect". And I certainly trust any great prospects in the hands of our manager.

Overall, my initial thoughts are positive. The amount paid is hardly astronomical, so if things don’t turn out as we all hope I would expect to at least get the fee back in any future transfer. His versatility is a bonus in a squad that so often lacks depth, and with his age I feel he is in a great place with a great manager to continue his footballing education and progress and become an improving and hopefully influential player. If he is to become an influence it may be that we have to be patient as he gets used to what the Premier League is all about. Maybe a healthy amount of Europa League appearances first? We shall see.

Welcome to Everton, Muhamed Besic. Good luck and do yourself, and us, proud.

Bravo! We all know you hold dual season tickets mate, one for us and one for Wigan, letÂ’s hope the fixture list is favourable for you, so you can alternate.

Keep up the good work, Phil!

Tidy player, quick in the short dash, sharp turns, and rarely wasteful. Thrown in his tenacity, work rate, tackling ability and discipline (in football and positional terms, not behaviour!), I think he has all the attributes be an real asset to out squad and first XI.

Granted IÂ’ve only seen Besic 8 or 9 times, but if he can get anywhere near the level of Pjanic, weÂ’ll all be very very happy blues.

How many hours has it been?

Very happy with this signing. Only saw the kid at the World Cup but he looked very good IMO and it fits our "business model".

I put that in quotes for a reason. At least we are buying low with the idea of selling high if necessary.

I thought you were going to stop putting your neck on the line?!

Still confident? I hope youÂ’re right anyway.

IÂ’m 99% sure that Besic is being signed as a midfielder. I doubt we will ever see him at CB in Royal Blue, unless we have an injury crisis.

So, will the same old folks who trot out the same old Â’he shortened the transfer window didnÂ’t heÂ’ now please let it go. Actually, those very same folks seem to have gone a little quiet over the last 24 hours despite being more than usually vitriolic over the 24 hours before that.

However, at £4 million, this kid could be a steal and the steel we need for the team.

Harold (20), youÂ’re right about Martinez building for the future.

ItÂ’s clear from the age and ability of the players weÂ’ve been heavily linked with that Martinez is looking ahead a few years, rather than trying for immediate success. I think Duncan Ferguson said as much too, when talking about getting players in who were not the finished article.

I think we could struggle in the next couple of seasons while those players learn in our first team and make mistakes... however in 2 or 3 years time I reckon we could be a real force. It's the best way for us to compete in the long term.

Yes, I know this means nothing but he runs a business frequented by several sports stars, one of which told him Lukaku was to sign!!

So he told me anyway!!

Looks like his strategy is to buy young cheap potential. IÂ’m feeling a lot more confident about the future than I was this time last year.

For me, the best thing about these signings is the knowledge that they are dead keen to join us. Would like to say the same thing about Lukaku but weÂ’re all aware of his particular situation..

I rate Banega, but I donÂ’t think heÂ’s responsible or energetic enough to play this role, though he would certainly be an asset in any alternative systems we may want/need to employ.

Once confirmed I think this will prove to be a fantastic bit of business. An international centre mid who’s 21 and has already played at a World Cup and looks like he’ll only get better and better – for just £4M! Ready-made full time replacement for Barry in a couple of years.

CM sorted (almost) now just need to get Rom to sign on the dotted line for a 4-5 year contract (with MASSIVE buy out clause) and weÂ’re good to go.

GÂ’day mate, I tend to think we will get Rom, at some point but like I said on another thread, he is still a Chelsea player.

Mourinho, will love all this, being the Judge and Jury, not to mention, the Lord High Executioner! (I said not to mention that.)

On the same theme, I would be very surprised if we get him for £18M. Which, beggars the question: How high do we go? Which beggars the next question: Is he really worth £18M + X?

I think most of us Â’fell in love with RomÂ’ (metaphorically) from last season, but we had been starved of a goalscoring frontman, for years, on a regular-ish basis!

Which beggars another question: If he signed permanently, will he carry on, where he left off?

He proved in the World Cup that maybe, heÂ’s not as good, as he thought he was himself, he does have poor control at times, and has the attitude "Get the ball to me, IÂ’ll hang around, then hopefully IÂ’ll score!"

I do like the guy, as a player for us, and do want him, but still have reservations about his future development.

Personally hope this is not the case. McCarthy was one of our star performers last season, and it would be a real shame if we sold him to fund the Lukaku bid.

And has anyone floated the idea yet that Mourinhi wuill keep hold of Lukaku until after we play them?

I personally think he will. The lad has been on loan for the last two seasons, at two different clubs. It probably makes him feel sometimes heÂ’s not wanted. Although he scored plenty of goals for WBA and then us, he probably thought "What the fuck, IÂ’m only here twelve months, then I will be gone". This thinking could have affected his attitude during some games.

By signing him permanently and making him feel really welcome could boost his ego and attitude and hopefully see him score plenty more goals. I personally think Chelsea have treated him like something on the sole of your shoe since they signed him.

With the great business (buy/sell) and transfer profits of the last year, coupled with the massive increase in Sky money, on top of the great work done by Roberto and the boys last season, surely now is our time to make a positive statement and sign a player like Lukaku...

I just hope that he slots in seamlessly as the rest of the squad took time to learn the Roberto way of playing.

I like your thinking. People talk about his ego like it's a bad thing. I want my striker to be selfish, ambitious and up his own arse. This is the mark of a good marksman. Once a strikerÂ’a confidence goes, heÂ’s done IMO.

His attitude will be just fine. If he bangs in a lot of goals and gets us into Champions League, Lukaku and the club win. If he bangs in loads of goals and we donÂ’t get Champions League in next few years, he gets a big move and we make massive profit.... again, both parties win.

Or maybe, just maybe, he can become the next Big Dunc or Tim Cahill, and become an Everton legend, in every sense of the word.

I seem to remember a sublime dink over the City defence to put Naismith one on one with Hart, and but for a wonder save Ross would have had an amazing assist.

I think Barkley could have a huge season next year - and I sincerely hope itÂ’s with us.

Does anyone actually want to pay £20m+ or £30m+ For Ross and James respectively at this point?

IÂ’m not having a go at you, I just wanna know where the thinking behind your post...

I am totally with you on that, and YES, I do agree that Rom has been treated somewhat shoddily by his Â’parentÂ’ club, but remember, that although they are run by a Russian Oligarch (gangster) who treats everyone like this! I suspect that Mourinho is also answerable, even though they have a Â’working relationshipÂ’?

Also, Mourinho, never actually signed him, it was AVB! Mr Abramovich dictates everything, at the end of the day!

Even though they have wasted money over the years (Chelsea), IÂ’m sure that they will try to recoup as much as they can.

When they have a player (one of the stockpile, they have) and that player is wanted elsewhere, by a club who appreciate and love him, I am sure they will try to get as much as they can!

Allegedly, he supported them as his English team in Belgium as young boy!

We can afford Lukaku, and £18m is about the right price if you ask me.

As someone said above, people need to realise that the so-called ’big headed’ attitude that he has, is exactly what makes him worth having. Remember all the shit strikers we’ve had over the years? James Beattie etc? Fucking dreadful footballers without a clue about being a self-centred, centre-forward – every goal scorer needs to be a big-headed, selfish, arrogant bastard – it’s what makes great strikers.

Probably total bollocks but IÂ’m sure you get my gist!

Not sure about the fact he supported Chelsea as a boy for being a reason to stay, if thatÂ’s what youÂ’re implying. Look at a certain Mr Rooney!!

As for his worth. In the general scheme of things, probably not too much. To Everton, probably a lot. He's the guy who made the difference. People think Sunderland paid too much for Borini. The fans don't. They're delighted. Borini kept them up.

Nothing goes smooth with this club

We are building up a very strong youthful core to the team... Stones, McCarthy, Besic, Barkley. Just need to add the Lukaku cherry on top and this is a bunch that could become something very special together. Not to mention Coleman and Oviedo.

Better to spend £25m on Lukaku than £8 on someone like Demba Ba. It would see us very well set for the next 5 years.

However, if Martinez can keep us in the top six whilst building up a team of talented young players who will be in their prime in a couple of seasons we may well be able to be a real force again. The tricky bit will be keeping hold of our young stars when the money clubs come sniffing around. We have done a good job in that regards so far this transfer window with no serious pressure on to sell Coleman, McCarthy, Barkley or Stones... yet.

I think the loan signing of Deulofeu was a great move as was the faith shown in Barkley and Stones. It is a signal to talented youngsters that if you are good enough you will be given a chance at Everton. Perhaps that is why the likes of Henen are turning down richer CL clubs to come to Goodison. The more we bring through this route the more attractive we become to ambitious youngsters!

Barry: first team; Besic: first team squad. Next few in will probably be Henen and Galloway for the U21 side, hopefully Big Rom in ASAP and we’re shaping up nicely.

Come on, Bobby ’n’ Bill, make it happen, we deserve it and donÂ’t ask for a lot.

A sign of the times I'm afraid. When interviewed after the Tranmere game, Martinez stressed the difficulty of avoiding relegation. At no time did he mention top 6. Of course, he knows what fans are like but the added pressure of expectation is off the agenda at the moment and he's trying to make the most of these brief weeks of tranquillity.

Like you, I am thrilled to bits with the fit again squad and the influx of talented youngsters but the Europa thing has knocked my optimism and I sit here with all fingers crossed.

Without sounding complacent, I don't think relegation is an issue now. (Having said that, it only took an injured Andy Carroll to have West Ham looking over their shoulder last season.) Maybe Martinez is saying it as a little reminder to Bill to give him some support, or us to not take the work they are doing for granted.

Martinez has always said he didn't need money, all he needed was time and I guess this is what he's talking about. Instead of buying the 25-year-old £25M Besic, you have to buy the 21-year-old £4M Besic and develop him yourself. The good news for me is, if Martinez has a 'five-year plan', there's a better chance of him staying to see it out.

In the short term we need a couple of strikers and a creative midfielder who can cover the wings (maybe another top rated youngster).

The last couple of times we were in the Europa League, we did not fair too badly in the Premier League. We qualified 3 years in a row.

In 2009-10, we finished 8th after a terrible start (got knocked out by Porto in Round of 32).

In 2008-09, we finished 5th and played in the Europa League (but got knocked out before the group stages).

In 2007-08, we got to the last 16 and still finished 5th in the EPL.

I think your caution is misplaced.

I can see your concerns. Looking at last year's semi-finalists, two of the clubs won their respective leagues and a third qualified for this years Europa League.

With a well managed squad, using players not necessarily in the starting eleven in the early stages, I think we will be okay. I'm not saying we can win it, but I feel it would help in the development of the younger players. Plus we get the added bonus of a few away days.

Thank you, Roberto Martinez. Still hope this is one out of many.

There is the big plus, despite all our fretting about transfers, that the new season will be here soon and we get to see some fantastic football.

Another double over Man Utd please and throw in the that football we played against Arsenal!!!

Now we have another 'project' under Matrinez. This one has involved teaching the players 'his way' of playing the game. Starting from scratch in other words.

Is it just me being impatient or is it just a pipe dream that Everton can ever rise to the heights some of us once knew and we always wish for them?

As you get nearer to old age, you begin to panic about whether you'll be here to see it !

I would rather see us maintain our league position for a couple of seasons and then be a real force than aim too high, fall short and then spend another decade being the best of the rest. I really think Martinez has a long term strategy to get Everton back into the Elite of English football and I'm willing to be patient whilst he does his work. The good thing is that our chairman will be patient too.

I agree with Mike Green's (72) post about us getting in a £4m Besic and turning him into the £25m Besic of a season or too. I also think spending big on Lukaku is essential, both for the goals he will provide in the short term and for the player he will be in a few years time. Martinez has to strike a balance between his long term vision and the day to day demands of competing in the Premier League. So far he seems to be doing pretty well!

It seems Drogba will be going back to Chelsea and if that happens it just might encourage Lukaku to stay and learn from the old block.

I hope RM has an alternative strategy in place.

But look at the numbers closely and you will find that the new TV deal is replacing the money we usually get from selling one of our stars, we are constantly paying off the previous year's costs so unlike the league table we can't get a real sense of the state of play at any particular moment in time. Add in the fact that the negotiations with the bank/creditors so close to the start of a new season seriously hamstrings our transfer activity. The same problem will occur in January as the more we spend in this window will negate any spending in January.

That's why it's always jam tomorrow because we are so busy paying for yesterday's bread.

"During Everton's trip to Thailand, Besic was seen snorting lemo in the bogs with Jan Mucha and Andy Van Der Meyde by Phil Neville, who immediately told Roberto Martinez. Leon Osman proved he was still the joker of the group by sticking a KitKat up Phils arse and throwing him out the plane before saying "it's just banter." Much to the dismay of Ross Barkley who bladdered Osman and wedgied him infront of a visually distraught Joel Robles who was screaming for Gerard Deulofeu."

I would hope that this extra money means we no longer have to take out that infamous 10-15m annual loan every August from some obsure BVI company at a ridiculous interest rate. (Not saying anything about any director also coincidentally having a business in the BVI.....).

The extra cash must put us in a much better situation with Barclays and our overdraft facilities although I don't know what the actual timing of the TV money payments are.

Given all this I would really hope that annual negotiations with creditors are a thing of the past when it comes to transfers. I think that we now tend to do business late because we generally have to wait on other clubs first (e.g. the Lukaku saga won't be sorted out until Chelsea sort out what strikers they want), also my guess is that in the recent past we prefer doing transfers a bit later so as to save a few weeks wages - which at todays rates is not an insignificant amount when you think that our better paid players are on 200k+ a month!

At least we don't have to worry about a financial meltdown nowadays, which was not the case just a few years ago.

While Patrick is right in saying that the extra t.v money has simply replaced selling players, not having to sell players means to me that we are now more than just breaking even. It means a more settled squad, it means getting the time and the chance to improve the squad in increments while still keeping the same core of quality players, it means not having to worry as much about creditors and overdrafts.

The thing is though, as Drew has pointed out above, maintaining our current league position while doing all of the above is essential. A step backwards may only mean taking the same step forward.

On the plus side, the extra games will help bring one or two youngsters through and give us plenty to talk about.

Phil. "It's always tomorrow." For me, the post of the week. It really hit home. 80 next year and not too lively, I tell everyone to be patient but often wonder why.

In truth the pipe dream you refer to is happening for me right now. Never have I witnessed such an amazing transition in such a short time. The new intelligent, enthusiastic manager with his fresh ideas and football philosophy. Teaching me to view things in a different way. To appreciate how the players are drilled to perform designated roles in specific areas of the pitch. To watch as he brings in the exact type of player to play these roles. It's all very exciting and is probably doing me more good than a box of pills.

May I ask, do you have any memories of the 1938-39 league title, or were you still too little to remember it?

I didn't realise from the sharpness of your posts you were approaching 80.

I found myself with a big smile on my face as I read the enthusiasm in your post above. Absolutely brilliant to hear you say that.

Once you have been touched by the Blues... you know the rest better than me. God bless you, mate, may you have many, many more years enjoying our team.

Paul. Thanks mate. Guess I've never grown up. Being an artist helps. Painting racehorses and beautiful women keeps the mind lively, as does the love of sport where there is always something to look forward to.

Members e mailing me at sky.com will get a signed print. Have a few I need to pass on before someone chucks them out.

It may all come good in the next few weeks, but to my mind we are lagging a couple of transfer windows behind and are as yet a few senior players and multiple millions in transfer fees away from at least maintaining what we have without resorting to player sales.

Still if Torres stays then you're right, Rom ain't going to be stepping onto the pitch too often in a Chelsea strip next season if he stays. He's on holiday until next week so we have another few days to wait before this ends, hopefully it's all resolved by this time next week.

Poor Rom is on the horns of a dilemma. He stays and doesn't get a game, or he moves away from his favourite team.

So we somehow have to score against Leicester, Arsenal & Chelsea with what we’ve got or perhaps Traore as well.

Mike, I think you're probably right. Lukaku will sign on the 1st of September.

What happened to your informant?

Perhaps some of you pessimists may then cheer up a little and we can enjoy the rest of the pre-season!

You are taking optimism well into the realms of fantasy there.

I don't get this idea that Chelsea would hang on to him until September the 1st just to save Mourinho from the potential of a little bit of embarrassment. Either he is right to sell Lukaku or he is dead wrong, and the result of one game will not determine that.

If Lukaku signs tomorrow, then he plays against Chelsea, end of. None of this gentleman's agreement whereby "you sign him but he dosen't play against us"!

Who the fuck does this guy think he is? So say Atsu goes to WHU, fat Sam will have to play him in, let's say, 25 league games to comply with Jose's demands? So basically he's saying there are 4-5 teams in the prem, the rest are feeder/developer clubs. What a nerve he's got. What if the lad turns out to be totally shite?

It makes sense if the whole point is to increase the number of competitive games a player on the fringes of your own first team will get.

In my opinion, Warnock's style of play required full grown battlers in the middle of the park rather than a raw but very talented youngster, and the loan was never the right one for the lad. Warnock tried to get a potential game-changer to use as he pleased and it was never going to develop Barkley as much as we would have liked.

There has to be a number of suitable criteria for all parties to get the most out of a loan, and ensuring your player gets all the useful experience they can doesn't seem an unreasonable one to me.

Perhaps I should have said "pre-sign an agreement that comes into force on 31 August".

Chelsea would pay his wages in the interim period as they don't want to let him go and he would continue to train with Anderlecht. This would remove the risk of us not getting him at all. He's just about the only striker that fits in our price range of £18-20M (perhaps also Klose, Llorente, Van Huntelaar) with the added bonus for Roberto of being young and able to be formed into the way he wants us to play.

Jose will scrap for every single point, either for his team or against his opponents for the title, it's going to be very close again this year.

Link

I rest my case. It's normal for "big" teams – yep, that's the likes of us - to dictate loan terms to "smaller teams" – ah, how the mighty Leeds have fallen.

If we were to decide to loan out Ryan Ledson, for example, we would want him to get a certain amount of game time and to be played in his best position. If there is a decent team that can agree to those terms, then we can talk. We would have to ignore interest from teams who just fancy him as a squad player.

I must admit, I'm not sure of Ledson's current level – I chose him because he's out most promising "fringe" player. McAleny is easier to place. If Norwich fancy taking him, we'd probably turn them down because they're well stocked with forwards. If Blackpool fancy him and promise he'll play then we'd still turn them down – for the very good reason they are already doomed to relegation. We'd want to place him with a mid-table side if possible. It's a bit hard to predict before the season starts. Ipswich, maybe? It's all common sense, really.

They militate against fair play and allow managers to have a say in the selection of other club's teams.

They should be banned outright!

Whisper it if you dare, but how about the bloody player?

Lukaku can sign for us on loan right now and finalise a permanent transfer on 1st Sept. This would mean he can play against Arsenal but not Chelsea. Both clubs and managers will know this, so the seemingly popular theory that Jose is waiting until after the game to sell him doesn’t really fly. I think this is the third thread I’ve pointed this out on, so hopefully people will start to abandon what is a pretty wild theory in the first place.

Kev, good point.

Phil, on loans, there is a fairly simple way of preventing the stockpiling, I’ve explained it on TW before. The squad limit rule would be in place, and anyone not named in, say, Chelsea’s squad is able to negotiate a free loan for a season to any other club, with his wages paid by Chelsea. It may be that he can even have a free transfer, or one for a set price decided by tribunal (his value is the rest of his contract or something like that). There would be exemptions for younger players who’ve been developed by the club, but with a few details ironed out, a loan system that penalises ’stockpiling’ clubs could quite easily be drawn up.

SSN have just pointed out that no club may have more than ONE player of the same club on loan and that Bobby's interest in Atsu is therefore significant in respect of further loan of Lukaku.