Is Investment the Immediate Solution?

I’ll take it a step further and actually offer the opinion that in some cases, he is actually making matters worse, by actually continually playing players out of position.

Barkley on the wing, Lukaku on the wing, too many of the same type of players in midfield, Cleverley, Mcarthy, Barry, the list is endless.

To your question about whether investment is the answer, I'd say yes and no. Yes because we need to get quality players in the right positions. While we may have a number of internationals, they aren't necessarily up to premier league standards. Naismith is the prime example. But while Martinez is manager, any investment thrown into the squad would most likely go down the drain. We spent £28 million on Lukaku, but he's nowhere near half as good as many others who cost half that. I blame the board for paying an inflated price for someone who was worth less, but also Martinez for not knowing how to play to his strengths.

Injuries and lack of transfer activity is no excuse for the performance yesterday and in fact most of last season. Any team we put out should be capable of dispatching Watford at home comfortably.

The only other thing I disagree with Ian is that I never get used to getting beat at GP (maybe I'm a masochistic supporter) but I do expect it now. It is going to be a very long season if Martinez continues as manager. No idea, no planning, no hope.

Talk of 10 or 11 internationals is rubbish. Most are over the hill in that respect and that is why we still have them. Out of the side that started the match against Watford only about four would command a decent transfer fee.

Every other club in the league bought players and had them bedded in before the season began. We are the bottom of the spending division and yet this board are not castigated for it and fans are directing all their bile at the manager who is a well paid fall guy for this inept board.

Before we went into Europe Martinez said we needed 6 or 7 extra players to be able to compete on all fronts. Nothing happened, the squad remained at the same strength in numbers. This season it has been accepted publicly that we need three new players and that was before Baines got injured to add to the growing list of injured players. Leaving the transfer activity to after the season begins is suicidal and criminally insane IMO and a lot of other former players opinions too.

He has had far more backing than Moyes ever did including being allowed to pay 28 million for a player that wouldnt get a game for a top 6 club.

Martinez tactics, Training regimes and player selection and motivation is not even good enough for a top championship side never mind the Premiership.

No wonder he said he wasnt the man to bring Wigan back up having relegated them with a record number of goals against.

The man is painfully out of his depth and is gradually breaking up all the good routines and practices Moyes put in place.

It has been painfully obvious to many supporters that we struggle to contribute goals from MF after Fellaini was allowed to go.

We replace that with a pair of defensive mids that are lucky if they get 3 goals a season between them.

For the last 2 years Ossie and to an extent Pienaar who were our only other sources for goals have both been aging/deteriorating.

A good manager would have seen this and addressed it but Martinez keeps getting inferior players not befitting a top six club.

Ross Barkley for all his natural ability has not been developed since Martinez took over.

As other posters have said the players look confused with no sense of purpose.

I could go on and on but no amount of investment will improve us while this man is in charge.

But what I don't understand with your posts and some of the others who always hark back to Moyes, is what would happen if Martinez was sacked and we brought back Moyes. Would he suddenly have us challenging for the top 4 in league where he'd only have 4m to spend and being outspent by every other club?!

Yes, Martinez was backed last season but it wasn't money the board invested. it was the Fellaini and Jelavic money and he spent it on player we can sell for profit. Moyes's big buys were very hit and miss in players like Bilyaledinov. Why are you so sure Moyes would have done any better. He was on a slow decline after the 2009/10 season.

Yes, we were a top 8 side when he left.. but is that good enough for Everton??

If the way this club is being run into the ground means the best we can all hope for is another 11 years like we had under Moyes then we've got very low expectations based on our past history you often allude to Jay.

Should Martinez be Everton manager?! Maybe not, but the bigger picture is where can this club go while it's being run by BK.

The manager, the manager's team selection, the players he buys, the players he doesn't buy, plus the ineptitude and minge-baggery of the board etc etc.

However at the moment, it's this that interests me - "If players of the quality that we currently have cannot inspire better performances, why would further reinforcements make better results any more likely? In order for reinforcements to be effective, we must first address the tactical deficiencies we have been showing for the past twelve months"

This is undoubtedly true, but it's not (imo) just in tactical deficiencies that these players appear to be..um...deficient.

There is also (and yes you could definitely argue that this is down to the manager too, as he buys/selects) something more basic lacking, something to do with (for want of a better word) 'character.'

Something I believe, no matter how average a player, I should be able to expect from every Everton player.

Will, determination, fight and 100% effort for every minute of every game (I've seen enough football to prefer an average player who'll give 100%, to a good player who'll give you 40%).

Did we have this from every player against Watford?

I don't believe we did - I don't believe there was enough* battle or 'will to win.' (*I think they 'wanted' it more).

I could be wrong of course, but if I'm right, this is a big problem.

The reality is there are four or five teams (the wealthiest sides) in the PL with 'better' players than the rest - players with a level of touch, pace, awareness and invention that (over a full season) will guarantee their teams a higher level of success.

(West Ham had a good win yesterday, but will anyone be betting on them to finish above Arsenal?)

As we know, we're not one of those sides (we're more Will Ferrell and Mark Whalberg in The Other Guys).

Regarding the relative success of all these other sides (including us) the margins between success and failure are slim (and getting slimmer), so it is vitally important that every single advantage that can be utilised, is.

And imo, most of these advantages are down to effort, imposing your will and what I'd like to call 'doing the fucking basics'

Firstly, we are far too quiet. Everton don't pay me a bean and I pay for a season-ticket, yet it appears it's my job to tell Lukaku when he's got a man on.

(you don't have to be Costa to open your bleeding mouth).

And effort covers just about everything else we need to do (but don't).

Win more headers, have more shots, get tighter for throw-ins, stop more crosses, stop more shots, basically (as my old Sunday League manager used to tell us) 'get fuckin' tighter!'

Plus we must make playing at Goodison an advantage against all sides but particularly against none top-5 sides.

If we were to use every weapon at our disposal, we could finish 5th/6th.

If we don't, this season could be worse than last year.

Of course it's ultimately down to Martinez, but those selected (whoever they are) need to 'up their game.'

As I've said in other posts, with the present bums in charge of the club, I don't expect trophies or proper success, but 100% effort and the basics shouldn't be asking too much.

Should it?

Like Martinez or not, and it's clear that many posters on this thread have had their fill, to castigate him whilst ignoring the above fact is to disregard half the argument. This is all the more pertinent when you consider The fact that we currently top the league in terms of injuries. Top of the league for injuries and bottom for spending on players. What can any manager do with that?

I also agree that whilst we have a talented squad, there are few player who would get a starting spot in the teams who traditionally bag the top four spots. Mirallas possibly, Lukaku maybe. Barkley is another one. The rest of the squad is too young or too old or simply not good enough. Neither Moyes not Martinez can be expected to achieve their potential under circumstances where this is zero investment in a squad which needs it to compete.

In answer to your question:

"But what I don't understand with your posts and some of the others who always hark back to Moyes, is what would happen if Martinez was sacked and we brought back Moyes. Would he suddenly have us challenging for the top 4 in league where he'd only have 4m to spend and being outspent by every other club?!"

He would put a rocket up the backside of this lot.

Within 4 weeks he would have them as fit as a fiddle or in the reserves.

He would stop them leaking goals.

He would have them competing for every ball.

In other words what Eugene @ 19 (and me) is looking for :-

"Will, determination, fight and 100% effort for every minute of every game".

Too often, the front three are isolated because the back SEVEN get a nosebleed if they support them. Criticism of Barkley giving the ball away too often against Watford ignored the fact that he was outnumbered with nobody from midfield giving him options. Not so strangely, once we sent on Kone and actually got players forward, we battered Watford.

We need to back ourselves more and not play this slow waiting game. Yes, we may get beaten occasionally by good sides. But we would also win more against all teams if we attacked when we had the ball and defended when we didn’t. Instead of defending all the time.