Act Now – Remember the Motto

Max Levy 30/12/2015 74comments  |  Jump to last
Those of us with long memories of watching Everton – in my case over 40 years – remember when the club acted in a manner befitting its status. Big decisions made to maintain the club's status as one of the elite. That was when we had an expectation of challenging at the top, not just a vague sense that we had some potential to mix with the "heavyweights".

Forty eight hours after the Stoke calamity, I have never felt such anger after a game. Not in a "Clive Thomas" manner, where injustice has clearly been dealt upon us by incompetent external forces, but by the sheer arrogance allied to ineptitude displayed by Mr Martinez. Many other writers on this forum have described the various ills of his current team management – the team selection, tactics and in-game management. There is no need to repeat what we all know too well.

I am not at all astonished by the unanimous verdict amongst my non-EFC-supporting friends who say how much they like him and that Everton are merely unlucky. After all, a neutral watching a six- or seven-goal thriller with last-minute equalisers and winners stemming from free-flowing open play, cannot fail to enjoy themselves. When the same team are repeatedly in this situation, they become the neutral's favourite.

Immediately after the Watford opener I posted on ToffeeWeb that Martinez should be given five games to demonstrate that his mindset had changed. If that was not forthcoming he should be removed. Nothing that has happened since makes me believe that I was wrong. Of course, the board didn't act. Why would they? This is modern-day Everton after all. The big club that blatantly flouts its own motto and settles for second-best.

Unlike Mr Martinez I have been looking down the league table since the opening day, rather than up. I ask the board to consider the following: Mr Martinez has created another Wigan, the big difference being that we have a world-class striker. I challenge the board to accept that should we lose him to injury in the near future, we will be fighting the same relegation battle that Wigan were so familiar with.

I am not a pessimist. In fact I am an optimist. I see clearly the better future that awaits when we have installed a competent manager and a buyout is completed. The proviso being that we must not let this season disintegrate completely and then lose our top players – we all know their names – in the summer.

For this reason the board should act now and install a new manager with the right experience and know-how, before the battle is lost. We are not a lost cause yet. We have the soldiers but our General is incompetent. Waiting for a buyout before taking action is a dereliction of duty. A duty to ensure that the club strengthens from a position of strength, so that the younger generation can finally experience what we lucky ones know can be achieved.

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Ian Brandes
1 Posted 31/12/2015 at 16:48:55
You have summed up the feelings of all who have seen through this master of disaster. Hope they sack him, fear they will not.

He is very dangerous to our future as Everton

Patrick Murphy
2 Posted 31/12/2015 at 16:54:24
Max

I’m afraid our motto and Everton being a truly ambitious club died many many years ago, almost as long as you and I first started watching the Blues. We had a brief resurrection of it in the middle of the 80s but generally speaking it is only us the supporters who have maintained it as a yardstick to measure the various teams that have represented the club during that time.

The people who run the club have in general ignored poor runs of results and have mostly adopted an "It’ll be alright on the night" attitude, constantly believing that whichever manager is in charge they will eventually get it right, only Howard Kendall has managed to overcome poor results and emerge victorious and that was because he did have the best interests of the club at heart at all times even if many of us couldn’t quite see it at the time.

You mention a takeover – but will that ever happen? and if it does there is no guarantee that the potential new owners will be any more ambitious or hands on than the current owners; also they are unlikely to rock the boat too early in their tenure.

Everton FC are at an important cross-roads on all fronts, particularly on the playing side, we have at this moment some of the most gifted players we have seen for a very long time; however, we have one of the least effective teams we have ever had, when it comes to winning football matches and quite a lot of that can be put down to the current manager, but in truth not all of it. For the whole of the Premier League era Everton’s win rate hovers around the 36% mark, good enough to maintain it’s continued stay in the top division but never enough to challenge at the very highest level.

As it happens, I also believe that Roberto will be unable to stop the flow of goals going into the Everton net as he is incapable of producing the right balance in his team’s, much the same way as our previously defensive minded managers were unable to create a goalscoring team for any length of time.

I’m not even sure that a change of manager will result in a change of fortunes on the playing side as the lack of ambition is so deeply engrained in the club that it will take an almighty effort by the directors, manager, players and supporters to reverse it.

We have to find somebody at the club who will make demands of their manager and the team instead of waxing lyrical about what the manager has half-promised.

There will be no change on the managerial front until the end of this season at the earliest, and if there is no sale, possibly not until the Spaniard’s contract runs its course; what state the club will be in by that time is anybody’s guess. Happy 2016!


Peter McHugh
3 Posted 31/12/2015 at 18:27:15
Disagree and would like to see how we have done come May. We're only part way through a season and whilst results have been frustrating I have been pleased with the team performances and play in general.
William Cartwright
4 Posted 31/12/2015 at 18:49:05
Peter, the jury is still out and should remain so until a clear pattern of successful football emerges or not.

The Premier League is a long hard war and we still have a chance of a top 4 spot, as do most teams!
Norman Jones
5 Posted 31/12/2015 at 19:19:52
Peter @3 above, I think you have summed up BK's thinking very precisely. The budget is for 10th place and Roberto will make that in a canter.

What we may think is totally immaterial!

David Barks
7 Posted 31/12/2015 at 19:41:39
Norman,

Sorry mate, but you don’t spend nearly £30 million on a striker to just get 10th, and Martinez is struggling to even achieve that. Had us bottom half of the league last season, and we’re back looking that way this season.

I have no idea where you get the idea that a 10th place finish was the goal, because everyone in the team and management started the season saying we would push for Champions League qualification this season. But it’s his complete failure to organize the defensive side of the game that sees us failing this season, and his unwillingness to do anything about our poor goalkeeper.

Paul Tran
8 Posted 31/12/2015 at 19:58:52
As long as we remember the motto if we get rid of him. No sentimental ex-player nonsense, or last six month wonders please.

Healthy and Happy New Year to all Blues worldwide. Whatever our preferred route, let’s have something to cheer about!

Tony Hill
9 Posted 31/12/2015 at 20:03:45
I hope, Norman, that there is more ambition. I have followed the club for more than half a century but I will not renew my season ticket nor will I attend Goodison if it becomes plain that we are settling for 10th place and that we are content to support a chaotic manager like Martinez. I would rather the club dies than accept such paralysis. Certainly, my interest will die.

My support does not depend on success but it does depend on our striving for it - and every Evertonian should feel the same, surely?

James Hughes
10 Posted 31/12/2015 at 20:04:32
Peter is pleased with 3 home wins so far, after back to back defeats and shipping 7 goals into the bargain. My God, I must have ideas above my station in life as I want more than that, or Peter is easily pleased.

All the excuses are amazing, the one I liked best was that we are only complaining because Roberto has raised our collective expectations above what is achievable.

I have one wish for the new year Roberto to either shape up or ship out.

To all fellow ToffeeWebbers, a Happy New Year.

John Keating
11 Posted 31/12/2015 at 20:12:44
Max, good post

I think however, you are 12 months too late asking for him to be removed.

The writing was on the wall last season and you are quite right to be looking down the table because that is the only way we are heading.

I hope before the end of the season we get the odd win, which on here will no doubt be greeted as another Oxford moment, however, I feel we will have more unhappy days ahead than happy.

You are totally correct regarding how the neutrals view us. I cannot understand how any Evertonian can be happy with the open amateurish football we are presently playing. To be perfectly honest I find it completely embarrassing that so called professionals can be so naïve, whether playing or managing.

I have been supporting them quite a few more years than you and though I have been angry – especially in the Walker days – I have never been embarrassed to be a Blue. This is what this manager has brought me too.

Norman Jones
12 Posted 31/12/2015 at 20:37:07
I am sure I have read that the Club's budgeting is based on a mid-table finish to break even with anything over that producing a profit. I guess such caution could be described as prudent.

On the other hand, that doesn't prevent the manager being insentivised to achieve any higher placing the Board may aspire to.

The veracity of the above will be shown if we finish below 10th and Roberto keeps his job but, of course, his first season fifth will be factored into any decision on his continuing in post.

All in all, I'm inclined to bet on his completing his contract if BK's stewardship continues.

Tony Hill
13 Posted 31/12/2015 at 20:48:08
I think you are right, Norman, but only on the assumption that Martinez does not present a rather more serious threat to our status than we are presently inclined to believe. Because we are playing with a certain fluency going forward and because we are scoring goals, we are not allowing for the possibility that we continue to slide.

I think there is a risk with the fixtures ahead and the apparent frustration/tension among the players that we start to stutter in a rather more worrying way. Even then, though, you are probably right that our comatose and evasive Board will do nothing.

These are serious days indeed for our club. I am hoping for a complete clear out of Board and manager asap. I do wonder, as others have, whether the appointment of Dr Vint is a sign of coming changes, but I am clutching at any straw at the moment.

James Flynn
14 Posted 31/12/2015 at 20:49:52
Everton are in the news over here, too; specifically because we can be, and often are, exciting in the attack. We make good TV. So, Roberto is NOT getting fired. Ever mentioned in the football world, crowded Goodison. What's to complain about from our owners' view?

Besides, if this takeover talk is legit, it's the money, not what's happening on the pitch, that is front and center for our incumbents.

Four youths constantly talked about in the Press; Stones mostly for some strange reason. He has to be the softest CB in the EPL.

I'm all in on "Roberto is not the guy." All in. But, he's not getting fired as long as we have the same owners. Not happening.

Antony Matthews
15 Posted 31/12/2015 at 21:26:38
Max, 40 years supporting Everton means you must have seen managers come and go a lot. One such manager was probably days away from being given the bullet. His name... Howard Kendall.

This is probably the only reason why BK hasn’t ordered the taxi yet. I just hope he doesn’t leave it too late and the team disintegrates next summer.

Dick Fearon
16 Posted 31/12/2015 at 22:02:01
I have just scanned the latest table and reflected upon where we could have / should have been placed. So many points squandered makes me sick to the pits of my stomach.

This is the result of hiring a proven loser who is clearly out of his depth, a bullshitter of the highest waters.

Steavey Buckley
17 Posted 31/12/2015 at 22:38:44
Everton’s present situation can be summed up: not taking games serious enough to shut up shop when not far away from full-time; playing the wrong type of substitutes or/and leaving the wrong players on, as was the situation against Stoke, who brought on an extra striker when down 3-2 and Everton left an extra striker on, while Galloway was crying out for defensive support. Result: Everton lost 3-4.

You just could not make it up, but you can with a manager like Martinez.

Raymond Fox
18 Posted 31/12/2015 at 23:42:01
Rose-coloured glasses a plenty. Let's look at a few facts:
  • We are competing in a League that's completely different than 25-30yrs ago;
  • We were 7th favs in betting when the season started;
  • We have not won a trophy in 20yrs!
  • In the last 5yrs we are 17th in a table of 20 of spending on players!
  • The team now wouldn't exist if Martinez wasn't manager.
  • If we go more defensive, we won't score as many goals (only 2 teams have scored more) that is unless we improve the forwards in general to compensate. (I'm not saying its a bad idea to rein in the defenders more by the way, I can agree with that.)
  • We are 4 points off 6th place, there's half a season to go.
Rewatch all the goals from recent games, and tell me why our defenders couldn't stop the goals??? I’ll save you the trouble, individually they weren't up to it, look at Stoke’s goals.

The Prem's a money race and we are not in it, the usual suspects will fill the top 4 places come the end of the season. Now if you want to pin our shortcomings all onto Martinez, carry on, but I think you'll find that it will take far more than a change of manager.

Jay Harris
19 Posted 31/12/2015 at 00:12:15
Raymond your stalwart defense of Martinez is admirable but highly misplaced.

The man has a history of his sides conceding goals like a sieve and making limp excuses and promising jam tomorrow.

In a recent poll, 74% of supporters were totally dissatisfied with him and 22% thought he was doing an average job...

Now supporters do have varying opinions and do sway with the wind at times but there is now a groundswell of opinion against RM which I fear will translate to the players feeling the brunt of it and then we are heading one way and it's not good/

If you find traces of a cancer, you are best to remove it at the earliest opportunity.

Derek Thomas
20 Posted 01/01/2016 at 00:28:15
Raymond Fox @18; Leicester?
Danny O'Neill
21 Posted 01/01/2016 at 00:33:28
Max,

Very well made point and difficult to argue in the aftermath of the Stoke debarcle.

Despite my frustration I’m with Peter (3rd post). Let’s see where we are in May. And that’s me being consistent with what I’ve said on here previously.

Would you have sacked Howard Kendall in December 1983?

Tony Hill
22 Posted 01/01/2016 at 00:36:39
Raymond, we would have got into the top 4 a couple of seasons ago had it not been for a loss of nerve precipitated by Martinez's ridiculous tinkering against Palace at Goodison when, predictably, we were ripped up by a counter-attacking side and Pulis outsmarted him.

This season we have dropped a large number of points because we are simply disorganised. We should be either in the top 4 or comfortably challenging for it. Chelsea have been hopeless, United are very ordinary, ditto Liverpool. Even City and Arsenal have been erratic.

If mediocrity is decreed as inevitable then it is little wonder that we achieve it and are instinctively in dread of doing any better. That has been the loser's mindset which has so dogged Everton when it matters. What a miserable, pessimistic charter it is.

Ross Edwards
23 Posted 01/01/2016 at 00:44:32
Happy New Year to all on ToffeeWeb, especially to Michael and Lyndon, keep up the good work guys.

Re Martinez, I agree with Peter, let’s wait until May and see where we are. If we are nowhere near the top 6 then we should get rid, and get Frank de Boer in. He has been talking this week about wanting a new challenge and he is open to a move to the Premier League. He apparently will decide on his future in March according to reports. He has been linked with the Swansea job.

That’s if our inconsistent form continues; however, we are still in the League Cup semis, and who knows, we could win that and suddenly RM would have completed a turnaround of Howard Kendall’s 1983-84 proportions.

Mike Hughes
24 Posted 01/01/2016 at 00:49:21
What #22 Tony Hill wrote.

Ditto.

So typical of EFC to miss an opportunity like the 15/16 season by thinking and acting small.

And, sadly, those expectation have infected the mindset of some of the fans.

New Year's Resolution - kick mediocrity out of EFC.

Nil Satis Nisi Optimum.

Peter McHugh
25 Posted 01/01/2016 at 01:00:00
I’m pleased we’re playing attacking football and have mindset of not lumping it forward and want to try and challenge any team through playing football and tactical nous.

"Martinez has no Plan B", I hear loads of people say – he seemed to do just fine at the Emirates and then at home to Arsenal in his first season playing different ways. Oh sorry, the rationale behind those displays was because he inherited Moyes's team...

Oh yes, he also spent loads more money than Moyes in that first season with 3 loans moves and McCarthy (that Wigan useless piece of shit) replacing our best player (bar arguably Baines).

And someone above says it’s Martinez’s fault for making mistake against Palace which stopped us getting top 4. Oh yes, the top 4 we used to challenge for every season under Moyes and everybody else in the last 28 years including when we has bags of cash.

I was gutted losing to Stoke but we did have a go and perhaps under a different manager we would have drawn against Newcastle and Stoke. You can’t argue we had a go against Bournemouth, Norwich and Palace - you can say our defending for the goals we conceded were shocking.

Our defending on corners, set pieces, our general shape susceptible to be split apart on the counter by just one or two balls is not very good to put it mildly. However our attacking play by those screaming about the manager’s head is overlooked as too is the fact we have a very young back four (including Argentinian who only joined about 4 months ago) and so are obviously going to make mistakes.

No problem criticising Martinez, Howard, the defence, substitutions whatever but the worst manager we’ve ever had, never have I ever in my life been so embarrassed to be an Evertonian is in my opinion, ridiculous.

I’m not pleased with results but generally, yes, I have been happy with performances and believe we’re playing a lot better than last season with loads still to play for this and that’s why I will judge the season in May.

Derek Thomas
26 Posted 01/01/2016 at 02:53:59
And so it rolls on... Let's judge when:

We’ve no Europa League.

We’ve had a decent pre-season, with no World Cup hangover.

After the summer window.

After the first 10 games... have you seen who we’re playing, bit hard them.

After the second 10 games... have you seen who we’re playing, easier games them.

After Christmas...

After January...

After the Semis...

After Pancake Tuesday...

After Vasant Panchami...

After Easter...

All just reasons to put it off and hope it comes good.

It won’t.

Yeah but we don’t sack managers do we? especially just before a League Cup Semi... [Mr Bingham knows different.]

Peter Barry
27 Posted 01/01/2016 at 04:40:04
"Procrastination is the thief of time" and "What gets put off until tomorrow never gets done" are just two sayings which come to mind whenever I think about Everton’s Board... That and "Ostriches with their heads in the sand and their arses in the air, seeing nothing and achieving nothing".
Jimmy Sørheim
28 Posted 01/01/2016 at 08:38:38
Bill Kenwright should hang his head in shame... To appoint a freshly relegated manager, it really shows the insanity from our Chairman. To be sold by the 'Champions League' line was downright idiotic, a desperate move; he was the happy clapper Kenwright wanted.

To top it off, after just one season, he hands out a new 3-year contract. I am convinced Kenwright is demented; I hope he sells asap.

Ian Hollingworth
29 Posted 01/01/2016 at 08:50:46
Taxi for Roberto and BK... hopefully as the limo pulls up with the rich and ambitious new owners inside.

Dream on... we will be stuck with the clowns, happy to just survive.

Andy Meighan
30 Posted 01/01/2016 at 11:23:57
Great post, Derek (#26), but I think everyone who supports Everton knows Martinez won't get sacked unless we go on a run of catastrophic results and we end up in the bottom 3... Unlikely at the moment, I know.

Martinez has got the safest job in the game and we are still in both cup competitions, although I personally believe Man City will comfortably beat us over two legs. We just don’t seem to have any belief when it comes to these games...

Although I'd love to see him gone, realistically it's not going to happen; with an in-form Spurs side and a tricky run of games to come, I fear it'll get worse before it gets better.

Jon Withey
31 Posted 01/01/2016 at 12:11:01
Raymond -– with you on that.

I’d actually be delighted if all that was down to the manager – so easy to fix!

Anyway, he’s not going anywhere until the end of the season – in that respect, it is in his own hands. There is no defending him if we haven’t competed for anything.

Thanks to the submitter for the article – but it is yet another broadside at Martinez without an alternative – who are we supposed to get in who will fix these problems? Forget the ’money is no object’ appointments, what are you left with?

Dave Richman
32 Posted 01/01/2016 at 12:16:15
John Withey:

There are about 5000 names on this list of unemployed coaches / managers at any given time. Let's for arguments sake say that 99,5% of them are crap, and wouldn't make any difference. That would leave at the very minimum around 50 decent ones..... Disregard the Mourinhos etc, and it would still leave a healthy list...... Surely?

http://www.transfermarkt.com/trainer/verfuegbaretrainer/statistik

Paul Cherrington
33 Posted 01/01/2016 at 12:24:36
Derek@26 – spot-on.

The excuses made for this manager are amazing and I can’t for the life of me work out why so many fans won’t criticise him. It seems a lot of people have been hypnotised and fallen for his Spanish charm and nonsensical ramblings.

It makes me laugh when the same people would hammer the previous manager for ’only’ finishing 6th or not winning the league. Why does RM avoid all that and get handed a free pass to continue his dangerous experiment with our club? Who knows...

Norman Jones
34 Posted 01/01/2016 at 12:28:30
Jon, I think you are right, Roberto is going nowhere before the end of the season and, perhaps, not even then.

As we are at the halfway point in the season with 57 points left to play for, I have decided to put all the angst of recent games behind me and concentrate on what happens from now rather than what should have happened before.

I'm looking for a realistic return of 38 points from the games remaining – which would see us get to a very respectable 64 by season's end. Probably only enough to get 6th place but very respectable for all that.

Some will hate me for saying it but the season starts now. No further target amendments allowed!

Jay Wood
35 Posted 01/01/2016 at 12:35:48
Dave @ 32

What an informative site!

Thanks for the link, added to my bookmarks.

Clive Lewis
37 Posted 01/01/2016 at 16:59:42
We are all waiting for the Oxford moment, one game that changes and transforms us into Champions League challengers. However, it is not likely to come due to the badly organised tactics.

We have the team, this is different to Wigan who were also waiting for that moment; however they waited until Arsenal away for this, but it never came, and sadly they were relegated. Adding to this, the confusing fact the fans then celebrated an FA Cup win, leaving them with a confused message. I believe the players and fans are feeling this confusion now at Everton.

The biggest risk of failure is doing nothing, when you are clearly moving backwards.
Darren Hind
38 Posted 01/01/2016 at 17:07:14
"Dereliction of duty"??? ... Our board???

There must be some mistake!!!

Max Levy
39 Posted 01/01/2016 at 17:46:16
Thanks for all the responses to my article. All valid points and reflect a range of opinions. I’d like to respond briefly to three contributors:

Danny (#21): No, I didn’t want Howard Kendall sacked in December 1983. EFC were in a weak position then. And Kendall was a manager with a track record of success, not failure. We held our nerve, quite rightly.

Derek (#26): My points precisely. Thank you.

John (#31): I accept that I didn’t name potential successors. I’m just a season ticket holder without any any inside knowledge or connections. But if I was part of the club’s hierarchy the search for new manager would be a work in progress, and I would work from the standpoint that we are Everton, not Stoke not Southampton, not Newcastle, and so on. We are a top club in the most financially rewarding football environment on earth. We have several top class players. A manager with strength, know-how and a winning mentality should not be pipe-dream. In life it’s unusual to reach great heights when you set the bar low. Let’s hope the board, the current and the future one, will see it this way.

Mike Berry
40 Posted 01/01/2016 at 17:47:33
This coming week will be crucial — we could be closer to the relegation places and effectively out of both cup competitions.

Martinez fiddles while our Rom burns...
Danny O'Neill
41 Posted 01/01/2016 at 18:31:41
Hey Max, your post was good and generated a lot of debate from different viewpoints. I agree, Howard started from a weaker position, although I would contest that a less than 50% win record in 2 years as manager of Blackburn, albeit achieving promotion from the 3rd to 2nd tier of English football, constituted a proven track record.

In my opinion, Kendall was a gamble on a worshipped ex-player that could easily have backfired... fortunately "that" Oxford game changed the course of history at a time when we seemed to be staring into a much more obvious abyss than we are right now.

I used that as an example of why I personally don’t think there is a need to pull the trigger and change manager right now. We are in a stronger position now so if we held our nerve then should we not more so now?

Derek is right, the "plenty of time / lots to play for" view that the likes of me keep rolling out will run out of time if we don’t address our flaws but I just don’t think we’re at that point right now and certainly not in manager sacking space.

All opinion based clearly.

Here’s hoping (let’s be honest, as fans that’s all we ever can do!) that we turn it around on Sunday. Since when did Everton do things the easy way anyway!

Norman Jones
43 Posted 01/01/2016 at 20:25:24
Why do people keep harping on about sacking the manager at such a time? By my reckoning, he is halfway through what has become a 5-year contract so, in the period of due diligence, the Board is unlikely to confuse the situation by saddling prospective buyers with £millions in compensation.

Anyway, we are as near top six as bottom six, and given the mega money per finishing place, we have plenty to play for!

ps: I was tempted to say we are as likely to see the manager sacked as he is of dropping Howard. Hey, I just said it!

Helen Mallon
44 Posted 01/01/2016 at 21:11:07
I am not being in any way sarcastic but why post these letters complaining on here? Nothing that we write will ever get to the board or manager and he will be kept on, doing the same old things in games; he will never change.

What is the chance that there will be a banner with "Martinez Out!" at the Spurs game? ... NONE!!! Will the crowd shout and scream "Martinez Out!" or "Your tactics are shit!" or whatever? ... NO!!!

Some on here will say "It won’t help the team; it would put them off; we are not the other lot" and more... but, to be honest, until there is protest, nothing will change.

I wish the home fans would boycott this game; it won’t happen – but that would certainly get the board and media attention.
Norman Jones
45 Posted 01/01/2016 at 21:25:00
You are asking a lot of regular matchgoers & season ticket holders there, Helen. Are you one of them? If so, make the sacrifice. If not, come up with some other strategy please!
Helen Mallon
46 Posted 01/01/2016 at 21:37:42
If we are going to change, then Ismail Kartel who used to manage Fenerbahçe sounds like a top manager with a 61% win rate?
Helen Mallon
47 Posted 01/01/2016 at 21:49:46
There is no other solution, Norman. I am not a season ticket holder but do get to a lot of home games and away so I’m a regular matchgoer travelling 400 miles round trip to home games. (I get my away tickets from fans who can’t go.)

I would gladly buy a ticket and not turn up if it would help change the dynamics of our club, Norman. I was always a Roberto fan until that Stoke game; now, I want rid of him. Why is it a lot to ask if you want him to go and by protesting would help that process?

Trevor Peers
48 Posted 01/01/2016 at 22:01:06
Helen’s got the right idea, we should aspire to getting a winning coach into the manager’s job.We should demand it, fight for it expect it. Accept a loser, and you get what you deserve.

If there are more capitulations like we’ve seen recently, I’m sure the crowd will turn on Roberto. They did last season.

Dave Abrahams
49 Posted 01/01/2016 at 22:05:00
I’m a season ticket holder, I was thinking of not going to the Dagenham FA Cup match as a protest against the manager's tactics and his refusal to change them. I might still do this; I'm fed up with Martinez and his utter stubborn way of running the team.
Danny O'Neill
50 Posted 01/01/2016 at 22:18:48
Helen, do it; protest and put the banners up as it's within your right to do so.

In 1983, they handed leaflets out saying Kendall must go (a popular kopite song reminds us of that to this day).

I recall the crowd turning after we lost to Tottenham at home under frustrating circumstances in the Walter Smith days (I think). When Mike Walker was found to be out of his depth, he went quickly.

No-one is stopping anyone protesting; it's been done before and is nothing new or revolutionary.
Danny O'Neill
51 Posted 01/01/2016 at 22:28:50
And Helen, I’m disappointed in the "I’d gladly buy a ticket and not turn up" attitude. We’re Everton and better than that, not the Sky TV generated Newcastle type fan. I don’t doubt your passion but please, we are above that.
Jay Harris
52 Posted 01/01/2016 at 22:36:45
It's a pity they stopped putting cushions in the stands.

A few thousand cushions raining down on the pitch made people sit up and take notice.

James Stewart
53 Posted 01/01/2016 at 22:52:50
Perfectly articulated piece. Wholeheartedly agree.

Very tiresome, Raymond; you must be a spin doctor with all those carefully chosen facts. Next you will be telling us your messiah should be made Manager of the Year!

I have one simple fact for you: not one team Martinez has managed has had a competent defence... not one.

Mike Hayes
54 Posted 01/01/2016 at 23:04:12
Maybe we should sit on our hands and not react to anything – give them the silent treatment... that should make Blue Bill sit up and take notice!

Oh wait... he don’t feckin go – how about we all turn up, get ready for kick-off, then walk out? That way, those with the passion to go get to go but protest at the same time?

Something needs to be done to get these blind stubborn idiots to see what we can see and either sort it out or get out before this club sinks like Wigan.
Patrick Murphy
55 Posted 01/01/2016 at 23:10:40
Do we get a trophy for being above demonstrating or showing our disquiet? If so, we should need a new trophy cabinet by now.

I’m all for patience and understanding but if the last two decades have shown us anything, it is that if we as supporters keep turning up in large numbers and the only thing we show as a sign of disapproval is silence, then the people who run the club have nothing to worry them and our failure to win a proper trophy will continue for another decade or longer.

All that I want is for Everton FC to do everything on and off the pitch to compete, we haven’t even been able to be considered heroic failures in recent times.

Derek Thomas
56 Posted 01/01/2016 at 23:14:43
Jay @ 52; That's the very reason they got rid of them.
Danny O'Neill
57 Posted 01/01/2016 at 23:19:32
The title of this thread applies to the fans as much as we demand of the club: remember the the motto. We’re Evertonians.

As the great Howard himself once described us; the most knowledgeable fans in football. Not the knee jerky, FIFA 16 / Football Manager / believe the Sky generated hype type of modern fan.

Still, early days, Blues... and a semi-final to look forward to next week!!
Albert Perkins
58 Posted 01/01/2016 at 23:32:41
I remember Kendall almost out after assembling a young and hopeful team who were underperforming. Then something kicked in and they transformed into world beaters.

I don't think anyone else could have attracted this group of players together. Martinez deserves to work with this team for another season. If Everton are not top of the league by then we can get Guardiola and you will all be happy.

Trevor Peers
59 Posted 01/01/2016 at 00:01:49
Using Kendall as a comparison is totally misleading; Howard was in his first job in the top tier.

Roberto has had long enough in the Premier League to show us what he can do; he’s an experienced manager. He inherited a strong side and has totally destroyed it.

Peter Laing
60 Posted 01/01/2016 at 00:05:16
The most exciting team assembled in 25 years, free-flowing football and a defence like a sieve. Calls for the Manager's head, to be replaced by whom? And what kind of philosophy do we adopt? Turgid Moyes-esque defence-minded percentage football?

The season is undoubtedly on a knife edge, many want the trigger pulling on Martinez, but with the transfer window opening there are opportunities. A new goalkeeper and an experienced commanding centre-half recruited and we could be on the cusp of something.

I’m with the naysayers and feel that RM and the team should be judged at the end of the season.
Trevor Peers
61 Posted 02/01/2016 at 00:31:26
I think the concern is the coming month, Peter, we could be totally embarrassed and humiliated by the end of January. We are not usually big spenders in the January window, so that might never happen.

We all know BK isn’t going to pull the trigger, as you put it before then. But a bolder chairman may well have done and deservedly so. As for who is replacement might be, you tell me?

If we go on a long run of winless games what’s the alternative, Roberto is already in the middle of a bad run, similar to last season, and it could get a lot worse.

Danny O'Neill
62 Posted 02/01/2016 at 01:01:08
It’s not misleading, Trevor, it’s just a valid counter view and an opinion that sometimes lets not be too quick to judge and make change too quickly.

Generally, teams who achieve success are those who have the same manager for several seasons or more. Even Manchester United had to persevere with Alex before he became Sir Alex (despite calls for his head circa 1989-90).
Peter Laing
63 Posted 02/01/2016 at 01:15:03
I’m not calling for a replacement Trevor, knee jerk reactions hardly ever result in a change in fortunes be it the sacking of a Manager or the panic-buying of players. Stick with what we have got, improve, sort out the problems – starting with our inept goalkeeper.

The margins between success and failure are often very thin, we need a bit of luck, some tough decisions around team selection and possibly a player or two in January who can help us to kick on.
Jim Hardin
64 Posted 02/01/2016 at 01:37:51
I am not and have never been a Martinez fan. However, I am not sure how Stoke was a debacle in terms of Martinez and his managerial competence. He followed his philosophy in not subbing on a defensive player at the expense of the offense. He did nothing new or worse than he has always done.

Defending is our weakness so why try to rely on it when it is clear our players, defenders, mids and forwards included, have no clue what to do? Wouldn’t it have been a debacle if he had done this and Stoke scored two or three goals? People would have been saying we should have continued to press forward on the offense.

RM won’t get fired and probably shouldn’t be. Right now, Everton are not in danger of relegation. Everton play entertaining football more often than not. Everton are on schedule for 52 points and sit currently more than halfway to safety at the midpoint of the season. The TV money is ungodly even for 6th-11th. Plus 7th-10th is still the top half of the league and no Europa League expenses or qualifying or pool play away games. RM ticks all the boxes for the Board and the Chairman, so the manager is not going to get fired.

Finally, I reiterate that I am not a Martinez fan and never will be, lest anyone think that based upon the post, I am supporting him or his tactics personally.

David Barks
65 Posted 02/01/2016 at 02:40:56
Jim,

You really can’t see why it’s a debacle? Let me try to break it down for you. In the previous home game we gave up 3 goals, very softly. Then against Stoke, a side who had scored something like 6 goals away from home all season, the team managed by Martinez in his third year proceeded to give up FOUR goals at Goodison.

It’s a debacle because in his three seasons here, our defense has went from among the best to the worst, and it’s continuing to get worse. It’s a debacle because he continues with Kine out on the left wing despite the players offering absolutely nothing, despite the manager's latest garbage in the Echi trying to say he’s partially responsible for Lukaku’s form but not being able to actually say how. He doesn’t provide assists, doesn’t provide a goal threat. But Martinez kept him in there despite it being obvious to all watching and the commentators that we needed to get ahold of he game in the midfield.

It’s a debacle because we are halfway through his third season and it summed up perfectly all his failings. Doesn’t know how to organize a defense in all his years in the league, has no idea how to shut up shop in a match, and has no idea how to make substitutions to alter the match.

It’s a debacle because we still can’t win at home even when we score three against a mid table opponent.

What are you rambling on about us not being in relegation trouble and being on pace for 52 points. That’s garbage, that’s not what we should expect. We should be expecting and demanding a team that is challenging at the top of the table every season and demanding European football. But apparently mediocrity is good enough for some Evertonians, and that is very very sad.

Harold Matthews
66 Posted 02/01/2016 at 07:02:56
Switched Sky Sports on today and it said we were the top scorers from open play in the Premier League. It then said we had won only one of our last six games. Didn't know whether to laugh or cry. Plenty of things right and plenty of things wrong. Not all the fault of the manager it must be said. Some of the passing has been disgraceful and certain lifeless performances even worse.

Even so, Martinez is responsible for the way we play and right now it's obviously not good enough. Okay, he lost his captain and James McCarthy but something is lacking and it's up to him to find it. The large number of draws doesn't make sense. We're not West Brom. I can only conclude that goals may have been conceded but many chances have been missed.

Things get even more intriguing from March onwards. A couple of years ago somebody asked Ossie and Jags if there was a time when their legs started to feel the strain. Felt heavy or tired. They both agreed that it began to kick in around the 25 game mark. Something I found most interesting.

Famous coach Bielsa drives his players like a mad mule train driver. His all action teams have a great success rate............for 6 months. 24 weeks. Among other insults, people call him Mr 6 months.

Plenty of Premier League coaches follow his methods. Pochettino has even played under him. I wonder how many teams will start to flag after the 24 week mark? Hmm.

Kieran Fitzgerald
67 Posted 02/01/2016 at 07:57:49
Martinez always seems to go on a run of positive results in the second half of the season. Wasn't it seven wins on the trot last season? If you link that to what Harold was saying @66 then things may get very interesting come February and March.

We have been battering teams during games and just not doing enough to win them. Hopefully Martinez hits his usual winning streak and we get a decent second half to the season.

Dennis Ng
68 Posted 02/01/2016 at 08:42:23
We can only hope Kieran. Based on the current form, that seems light years away.
Trevor Peers
69 Posted 02/01/2016 at 09:02:57
Kieran since the Villa game in November, we have managed one win in six EPL games, that was the fortunate injury time winner at Newcastle, and if an upturn in our form doesn't materialise in March and April, as you suggest, we will be in deep trouble.

Is this the way forward? Surely it's time get worried about this manager. He is far from being the best option, indeed he could be the worst of all options if his previous record with Wigan is anything to go by.

Alan Thompson
70 Posted 02/01/2016 at 10:35:53
Could we not do for Martinez what was done for Kendall? Find a Colin Harvey as assistant.
Bobby Thomas
71 Posted 02/01/2016 at 11:46:03
Give this fella another year and we will be in the relegation mix.

Lukaku is putting a very nice gloss on some deep problems that will only end in trouble.

Paul Tran
72 Posted 02/01/2016 at 11:46:04
That's interesting, Harold. I always thought Moyes' teams looked leggy and over-trained in the early part of the season, which was partly the reason for our traditional mid-table berth at Christmas. We then often came good towards the end of the season, when our fitness appeared to come into play.

I'm not a fan of these 'all-action' coaches. Their teams give the illusion of being 'busy' without achieving much, they often flatter to deceive and they have no longevity. You need a big squad to cope with the injuries and burnout.

Norman Jones
74 Posted 02/01/2016 at 14:07:15
Bobby @ 71, you are certainly right in saying that 'Lukaku is putting a very nice gloss' on what had gone on this season. But that's exactly what Martinez bought him to do so credit the manager with that please !

I think it was Harold who brought up the 'half a season syndrome' that afflicts so many teams in the Prem and, perhaps, much further afield. And it is for that very reason that I am letting Roberto off the hook for a disappointing 'first half' (he will be massively relieved to hear that !!) but expect great things of him and the boys starting tomorrow.

After two and a half years, the Catalan can have few excuses for not having assembled and drilled HIS team and, as previously stated I'm looking for close to 38 points from the games remaining. I suggest BK should be setting such a target whether or not he is more concerned with takeovers at the moment.

What's done is done - it's games 20-38 which should decide our manager's future.

Kieran Kinsella
75 Posted 02/01/2016 at 14:26:25
There are a lot of romantics on here who hark back to the Golden Vision and seem to believe RM given time can bring those days back.

The Golden Vision was 50 years ago. We need to get over it. The rules have changed, the balls, boots and pitches have changed. Today’s game bears little resemblance to that era.

Yes, passing has survived and teams have done well with that but football goes through spells. The passing stuff was all the rage five years ago but teams have sussed it out. The likes of Bayern and indeed Germany and Argentina put the flash Harrys to the sword and won.

The teams doing well now are more physical and direct. Look what happened to Brazil at the World Cup. That could be us one of these days if we play an in-form City or Spurs. We hired RM five years too late.
Jim Hardin
76 Posted 02/01/2016 at 18:27:44
David,

With al due respect, several have pointed out with actual stats that actually even under Moyes, we conceded goals. We were nowhere near the league’s stingiest defense. I am a Moyes supporter but can recall games where points were shipped late on.

The point was that no-one other than Toffee supporters sees this as a problem with Everton. The play is attractive and offensively oriented for the most part. Over here, we love lots of points or runs in our football, soccer, basketball, and even baseball games. The club is considered mid-table with mid-table aspirations. Seems to me that the last 20-plus years have supported this view... right? Over here, Everton is a "little" club when compared to Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool and Tottenham.

My point about being on the way to 52 points based on the first 19 games is that the current Board is not going to change the manager. Everton will finish top ten and that will ensure a lot of TV money. Plus, perhaps the young defenders will get the mistakes out of the way and next season play better, which then should mean additional points. So tell me, why would RM get fired? And use real facts, please, instead of a thinly disguised opinion.

Philip Yensen
77 Posted 03/01/2016 at 09:01:45
Nil satis nisi mediocris.
Nothing satisfies but average.

Ahora de irse, senor Martinez.
Time to go Mr Martinez.
Paul Wharton
78 Posted 04/01/2016 at 20:30:11
Max, don’t recall your name on ToffeeWeb asking for the dour Scotsman called Moyes to be sacked during his tenure when he made us a laughing stock of Europe, getting hammered in Romania, both Lisbon teams in Lisbon hammering us 8-0 over two games; we never looked like winning at Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal or Liverpool in 44 games.

He pulled down our expectations, saying we should be grateful for having him; the other way round, I think... and I have been going over 40 years. In Moyes's tenure, not one sports journalist said Everton play good football. At least Roberto has given people like you your voice back after seeing what can be achieved in his first season. We need our international defenders to start defending.


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