Enough is enough

Most notably when Martinez played Kone on the left wing for the opposition to exploit especially as Kone cannot buy a premier league goal.

Or the games against Chelsea and Bournemouth away when second half substitutions would have made a difference by packing the midfield and defence to make it more difficult for the opposition to score.

If Everton had got their due rewards with at least 4 games, Everton would have now been challenging for a top 4th place.

Teams don’t fear coming to Goodison when they park 11 men behind the ball and just go forward for set pieces which is our Achilles heal. On that basis RM has failed which won’t be going unnoticed by potential owners.

I suspect the FA Cup is his only chance of redemption this season because even Europa League (whilst being a long shot) is not nearly good enough with the quality he has in the side.

If my aunt had balls she’d be my uncle.

We have got exactly what we have deserved due to inept management. The table never lies, we have lost too many games we should have won and thrown away too many points from winning positions.

That is not down to bad luck, it’s down to poor management of a football team.

What option are you giving RM Chris? "Enough is Enough" or "win the FA cup, pure and simple".

For me it is pure and simple, Martinez is shite, most blues going to Goodison think he's shite and most of blues at Goodison tell him he's shite.

He did that with Wigan, and where are they now? So if we won the FA Cup and got relegated, would that be enough for you?

Sorry, but even if we won the FA Cup and finished lower half of the table it would still be more than enough for me...

The only reason we did well his first season was because we were doing something different to what we did before, but even in the second half of that season we were already being sussed out, and the game plan has never changed since...

She could not comment on what I said as what she asked about my experience is as I explained down to the way the team play and this is on Martinez.

The reason for the call, renew season tickets, my answer, I do not know, if the next matches do not improve then regrettably the answer will be no.

Stones and Barkley have the talent to be outstanding football performers. But Stones will be gone in the summer and Barkley will never become the player he is capable of being while this manager remains at Goodison Park. To be allowed to stroll around the park without making any defensive duties is just plain stupid. Lukaku is another who doesn’t defend from the front.

A few weeks ago, I said that Lukaku had become a man versus Crystal Palace (I think) – in the last few games, he has become the lazy player he was last season. Again, this is down to the tolerance of Martinez. Lukaku should have been one of the players substituted on Saturday.

OK, it's a decent day out 'in the smoke' for us wide-eyed northerners but none of the ongoing problems you set out so well would be removed. I somehow think that it would not have guaranteed Martinez lengthy further employment with Wigan, whose savvy chairman was more than happy to flog him to his mate.

No, either you want him gone or happy to accept more of what has transpired in these last two seasons.

Don't try to cover your bets!

Chris, that is the most succinct, damning, no-nonsense critique of the failings of Martinez that I have read. I take my hat off to you, sir.

I started reading your article with some hesitancy, the emotional hangover of the success of the first season still flickering, but you have nailed it for me. Quite superb. Well done and thanks.

It is eloquent, reasoned and reasonable, rational and well-constructed, making many of the indisputable facts and well-presented opinion you offer very difficult to dispute. A good read. Well done!

As others have already pointed out, there is a minor conflict in your conclusions: should Roberto be sacked off for underperforming in the league, or should he be retained should we fluke an FA Cup victory?

I have never been so bewildered by an Everton team and its season results as I have by this team, this season. Every time you think it's clicking and they are going to go on a roll, they immediately – but immediately! – bring your hopes crashing down again.

As you fairly and rightly point out, there is a clear pattern emerging about our results, our performances, our defensive frailties and overall ’flakiness’ and lack of resilience. No team, no matter how good or bad, in form or out of form, whether trailing by a goal or more, be it the 1st half or the 98th minute of a game, is ever without a chance of getting a result against Everton.

We are very easy and predictable to play against. And the primary responsibility for that lies most definitely with the manager.

It strikes me, probably like many Blues, you are on the horns of a dilemma Chris. On the one hand you want him gone, on the other you want a trophy for the club. And you know that RM will not be sacked, if that happens.It’s still a great unknown just how the remainder if this season will play out and what will be the fate of Sr Martinez.

The obvious caveat to throw into the mix is the ownership of the club. Unless and until that is also resolved, presuming it is genuine and a goer at all, we have no idea what new owners may desire and whether they’ll continue with the old broom or sweep everything away and bring in a new broom.

Again Chris, congrats on a very good post.

Alcaraz, Martinez’s nemesis, the most inept, useless footballer (and that contravenes the Trades Description Act) also the selection of Barry last season when he was so out of touch.

Likewise Howard, who unlike Barry has got even worse this season. His justification for selecting him 4 weeks ago... it was Howard's 300th PL appearance... I’m still trying to overcome my shock at that being a reason any Manager would use to select a player. No other PL Manager would!

Taking Lennon off in the last match, the best player on the park, ignoring Mirallas, the best player of either team when he last played pre-injury.

Persisting with Kone, who is marginally better than Alcaraz, but ex-Wigan which somehow explains it all. Martinez has achieved nothing with us and he’d be long gone from any other Premier League Club.

I love Bill K but he does suffer from terminal inertia so Martinez remains... what’s he got to do to further illustrate how rank awful he is?

Did he purse a goalie in January or last Summer? A dereliction of his role....people suggest he’s a honourable man, if so why’s he not walked?

Great article, Chris, I say again.

With the squad he has got, arguably the backbone of the England defence, together with Coleman, why are we where we are?

Simple: love him or hate him, Tony Pulis knows how to defend. So do the above, but they are not allowed to do so by RM. He has to go and the sooner the better, taking Howard and Kone with him.

I should feel better now, but I don’t as nothing will change.

Martinez is a poor manager who on odd occasions his teams provides good exiting football. Successful teams provide good football on a consistent basis not on odd occasions

Even that scenario is difficult as, since the 1996-97 season there are only 2 teams outside of the Sky Favorites that have won the FA Cup. That is Portsmouth who beat Cardiff City 1-0 in 2007-08 and Wigan who beat Man City 1-0 in 2012-13.

The cups are nice to win for the day out but a lot depends on the luck of the draw, and as a number of regular supporters can not get a ticket for the final it is the excitement of the home games that get to the majority of the fans.

Shame this year there is no excitement. Definitely agree with your last comments from "is that good enough for a team like Everton."

By playing Robles Saturday, it will be harder for Bobby to recall Tim for the next Premier League game, I could be wrong but I will be surprised if Howard is not in goal Saturday.

His biggest clangers is his like for like subs, bringing on similar but poorer players, playing in the same position.

If you are battering a team who's parked the bus, sacrifice a defensive midfielder for a attacking player, if we are winning, close the game off, take a striker off and pack the midfield.

Why Martinez has to sub a like for like player is baffling, if its not worked for 70 minutes, then bloody change and try something different.

Yes, I would love us to win the FA Cup, but the reality is the first time we meet a good team with a good manager, it will be curtains for us.

As for the bullshitting blunderer who promised us CL football, if he had any self-respect, he would fall on his sword, and piss off!

Rant over for the time being at least.

Roberto has a poor Premier League record. I think he landed the Everton job because the FA Cup win and style of play gave the impression that, with a bigger club and better players he would be able to win in the league.

That now does not appear to be the case – unless he has a storming end to the season, he will not survive the takeover.

Examples of above:

1. Will only play 4-2-3-1;

2. Always plays a fucking striker as one of his wingers!

3. Refusal to sign a top ’keeper! Need to always play Barry, Howard, Kone etc!

4. Doesn't look at how other teams play. Just ignorantly believes if we play his way, we will win!

5. Every time he speaks to the media. Some of the shit he says is properly embarrassing.

In short: Bill Kenwright, I love you. You’re a great man. Now you have to be a tough guy & make a good decision to sack someone. Otherwise, I fear our club will become another Aston Villa.

I actually thought we played well against West Brom, particularly first half. That’s not an excuse for lack if basics in organisation given we had no one on edge of 6 yard box or on either post on the corner conceded and substitutions beggared belief. I can’t defend (sorry about the pun) are lack of organisation on set pieces (both attacking and defending). This must change.

I agree with the final paragraph that Martinez has got the rest of this season to prove he should remain his manager.

The only point I’d disagree on would be the suggestion that, if we won the FA Cup, he would save his job. I’m not sure that’s true but, if it turned out to be so, I’d rather be foregoing that slice of success, as brilliant as it would be.

This is because he will never change – he’s past learning with his flawed philosophy too deep rooted. Additionally and fundamentally the reason why he has to go, sooner rather than later, any success he achieves will only confirm to himself how right he’s been all along.

Likewise any success achieved by adopting a more utilitarian approach would be followed at the earliest opportunity by a return to his Barcelona fantasy. It’s in his DNA and all the evidence is he can’t and doesn’t want to abandon it!

But otherwise I really enjoyed the read!

You can never be certain, but most seasons 50 is enough to claim a top-half place and, cup or no cup, the budget will have been delivered.

All we can hope for is that whoever takes over will be a little more demanding/ambitious..... but they said that at Villa Park when 'Deadly' sold out!

I think young players are attracted to the club because they will feel that they have a genuine chance of playing under his stewardship. Like Barkley, they will be allowed to make mistakes and continue to develop. They may see us as a stepping stone, but they come in the belief that he will give them the opportunity to play.

There does seem to be an affinity and pleasant atmosphere amongst these players. That in itself will attract others.

There's not much anyone can say to someone who is pro-Martinez except that if you want real success including the possibility of challenging for the top 4 you can forget it!

You will have to live with us achieving absolutely nothing but have the meaningless satisfaction of been referred to in the media as a team which plays entertaining football and, by fans of other teams, as being a team with a very good manager.

That's because the myth is well established and the adoration comes from people who don't have season tickets at Goodsion Park!

We are run by two people who have no balls.

Kenwright hasn’t got the balls to sack the manager, and the manager hasn’t got the balls to say he dropped the keeper so disguises it by saying he is injured.

We won't be winning the FA Cup.

I hope the American owners when they arrive can see past the BS, look at the stats and get rid pronto.

I still see hope, however... unlike most! I think this season’s experience for Stones, Lukaku, Barkley, Funes Mori, Galloway and Deulofeu will mean we will be much better next season and a couple of acquisitions could change our potential and mean lift off for the team.

My nagging doubt is of course our lack of defensive organisation, our set-play ineptness and continued persistence of Kone; but these in my opinion can be easily rectified.

This manager is destroying our team. I’m dreading the summer transfer window. I can see a mass exodus from the club.

I’m afraid we must agree to differ – massively!

We’ll beat The Cherries on Saturday and are then a favourable draw away from Wembley for the semis. Give him next season with this team and if it’s another mid table finish then fair enough we should change him. Surely as Evertonians we have the virtue of patience ingrained in us?!

"With Martinez intent on running a professional team with the mentality attributed to a youth team, with 'style' afforded greater importance than results, Everton will never achieve anything other than being irrelevant also-rans."

This explains both his positives (attracting/encouraging young players) and his negatives (a lack of a pragmatic approach to EPL games). For me we need someone with a good balance like Ronald Koemann to take us forward with the current squad.

Kenwright's not a sacking manager, the board will be happy atthe club's net spend since Martinez joined, so if you want him out, you'll be hoping that the new owners will have their own man in mind. Whatever they do, I hope they're more demanding of the football staff.

Forget the FA Cup, look at our Premier League performance. How many of the top seven or eight teams have we beaten this season!!!! Was it not somewhat the same last season, how many wins had we against the top ten in the Premier League?

The results have been very poor. RM does not do change. If, as some have suggested that we should give him next season too, it will still be the same. We will drift towards the bottom of the league. This is not good enough for Everton and RM is not good enough for this great club.

The team needs to be judged by performances, on a consistent basis, and Martinez has failed. Time to go. Even if we get up to 6th, which I can’t see, he has to go.

They key to winning is pressing, that is the key to the Barca success. Possession is one element, the other is pressing. Everytime the opposition get the ball, every player from defence to Messi presses the opposition. That has been Spurs’ differential.

Martinez is soft, he is, in my opinion, stupid. He reminds me of the lad in my university Philosophy class who talked a lot, thought he knew everything, made lots of ’philosophical’ remarks and then got a 3. Why, because he didn’t read, didn’t study, didn’t review his own work. He was so full of himself and his ’ideas’ that he thought he was a success story waiting to happen and didn’t need to study or improve, he awaited the girls to line up and ask him his opinions on life. In the end, he was a loser. Martinez has the same vision in terms of football, and will have the same result.

Good managers say little of their ’philosophy’, shit managers preach it.

He can spot a good player, good on him, but what’s the point on good players if your losing 1-0 at home to West Brom and players like James McClean.

I certainly agree that players want to come to a great club as we do not have a great manager, just a mediocre one.

For me, Enough is Enough. Martinez must go, as I do not believe he is capable of managing Everton Football Club to the level that is required.

I was one of his supporters until fairly recently but, like many others, my patience has run out.

The only way out is for us fans to suggest good managers and maybe a mass walkout on the 87th minute indicating 3 years of this manager is enough. In fact it is too much.

The next manager should have a definite target for each year of his contract.

Interesting to reflect on how that team was managed.

We had a 'best 11'. The only time anyone else (e.g. Kevin Ricardson) got a look-in was when one of the 11 was injured. No tactical selection or squad rotation for the sake of it. No-one accused HK of having favourites.

We played the same way, with the same formation and style, week in week out, pretty muchy regardless of the opposition. Everyone had a role in the system, and replacements (e.g. Richardson for Heath) simply took on the role.

When a goal down (e.g. home games against Sunderland and Bayern) we just kept on playing the way we played believing we'd come out on top (and indeed for 4-1 wins in both of those games; the crowd really did suck the ball into the net!).

Martinez has been criticised for adopting some of these strategies. It's not working for him the way it did for HK, and hence all the criticism. Maybe it worked for HK because he had the best team in Europe. But it still seems to me that the strategies adopted against WBA, for example, are not hugely different from those used routinely by Kendall.

Firstly, that team would run through brick walls for each other and for the fans. They weren’t putting in transfer requests or dreaming of playing for other clubs.

Secondly, the pressing and harrying that team did, to win the ball back was a wonder to behold and the fitness required to do it.

I could go on but primarily, they were winners, it flowed through their blood and sweat. They were in Howard’s image.

The team we have before us today, are in the image of Roberto Martinez and to a certain extent those that hired him.

The glaringly obvious problems come down to the managers soft, ’too nice’ nature. Players take advantage, like children with a soft parent and once the discipline and respect has gone it’s hard to get it back.

We’re soft from top to bottom. Our players are all soft, quiet, nice boys... I’ve never seen a more placid bunch, and the manager is the same. Besic may be an exception but he barely plays and still isn’t a vocal , aggressive force.

Interestingly, Pochettino was a nasty piece of work as a player, ruthless and uncompromising. That is shining through in his management and is key to creating a winning mentality. Even Ranieri gives the impression of an iron fist in a velvet glove. Martinez will never beat that sort of character apart from an occasional one off. He has to go somewhere ’nicer’ than the Premier League.

It is not Ross’s fault as this is how the manager manages. If RM suddenly decided the team should get stuck in and press, it still wouldn’t happen because the team are not fit enough.

It is not all RM's fault either. Just like he is to blame for keeping Howard long past his sell by date, likewise the board for not making one utterance to the growing numbers and figures that prove the decline began in the last quarter of his first season.

What other outfit would put up with such shite?

Numerous fans have labelled him a "charlatan" which, according to my dictionary, is a person who claims expertise that he or she does not have. Of course, if he truly believes he has that expertise then he is not a charlatan. He's just someone with a high opinion of himself. Unfortunately, now that he has succeeded in making himself a multi-millionaire with great power, that high opinion of himself will have grown even higher.

Either way, as stated earlier, he's a second division manager who is completely out of his depth with Everton FC and the Premier League. He did not earn the job. He talked his way into it. Enough is enough.

When a straight-talking, honest sage like Harold above says he should go, he really needs to go. Buenas Noches, Roberto.

Kind of like going all out to score 4 goals but if they concede 5 then at least they gave it a good go, which seems indicative of his style today, it's either a very good stylish win or an embarrassing rollover, never a tactical bore draw which at least garners a point even if it's shite to watch.

That isn't and cannot possibly be a factor this season and given we are in a similar position to last term would indicate that Martinez has been found out.

My issue is, should we dispense with his services, who is the new man in the hot seat....? no one springs to mind other than Eddie Howe who has shown at Bournemouth that he can organise a team well and win games on a lesser budget that Bobby but I cant help feel we should be aiming much higher than that and I mean no disrespect to Eddie Howe or Bournemouth by saying that.

If you sunk £200 million into a team with an underachieving manager I think you'd be hard pressed to keep the guy around, I know I would.

1. We had a world class goalkeeper
2. We had an organised defence
3. We had dead ball specialists (Sheedy, Mountfield scoring from corners...)

Martinez cannot hope to succeed without addressing these issues and that’s without even touching on game to game tactics.

I am of the mind that the League table doesn’t lie. We are currently 11th. All teams have their share of bad luck, and poor refereeing decisions ,but we know we are hopeless when faced with a defensive team that we can’t break them down, and if that team can spring a counter-attack, we will concede goals.

Roberto is kidding himself . Even if he manages to keep this group together next season, I would not expect us to do get into the top 7.

Leicester have blown the lid off the notion that you have to spend your way to the top. Both them and Spurs (and West Ham) have shown that if you are fit, prepared to work for 90 minutes, are organised and have a bit of flair in the right places, that you can succeed.

We have flair but don’t work hard enough, aren’t fit enough, lack organisation, and don’t concentrate for the full 90+mins.

It won’t change under Martinez.

A prime example appears to be his obsession with signing every young goalkeeper he can find when we are crying out for a long-term replacement of suitable experience and calibre to replace the ageing, crumbling Tim Howard. Instead, we have a plethora of young keepers, most of whom will probably never make the first team in years to come.

As well as current third choice Jindrich Stanek, we have the following on our books:

Mateusz Hewelt (19)

Russell Griffiths (20)

Louis Gray (20)

Conor Hunt (19)

Ciaron O’Loughlin (18)

Ben Pierce (17)

And now we can add the 16 year old from Man City.

How many do we need? How many play competitive games each week?

Anyway, that’s just one small illustration of the Martinez goalkeeping strategy. Buy up all the prospects and in a few years there’ll be no one left for anyone else to sign.

If the draw is kind we'll get to the semi final of the cup, we won't win it.

I think what has made me question RM the most is his baffling substitutions and selections. When you have two other wingers in Mirallas and Deolofeu on the bench you bring on a third rate striker and play him on the wing instead. Taking off the best player on the park to do so.

I don't think he will go though unless we are threatened with relegation.

Bullshit doesn’t count – you're judged on results and decisions. This is Everton Football Club – not a retirement home

If we had a Titus Bramble instead of Stones or Funes Mori then we would be further down the league. It's only a matter of time though.

I have zero faith in the guy – none.

My point? The best team I’ve seen since supporting Everton was in the mid ’80s. That side had a nasty streak. Mentally tough individuals who didn’t want to lose... at any cost

If they weren’t playing well (as sometimes happens) then they’d put a shift in anyway. Blend ’water carriers’ willing to give everything for the cause and sprinkle in a few ’artisans’ (Steven, Sheedy etc) and you’ve got a TEAM.

Martinez despises the ’ugly’ side of football. For him, football is an art form that only he sees the beauty in. The results (as horrendously bad as they are) are a vulgar by-product. The ’Project’ is everything.

But then what do we know?

Anybody signpost me to the YouTube clip of Mountfield showboating??

Martinez has by-and-large also done really well in the transfer market. Aside from maybe Alcaraz (and you could argue Kone), I think he has built a really good squad; as people rightly say, the best since the '80s, but aside from ¾ of his first season in charge, when it comes to getting the best out of them, he has fallen further short than any Everton manager I could remember, and I’m including Smith and Walker in that too. They had shite to work with so Martinez has absolutely no excuse.

The lad who wrote the original piece on this thread had it bob on; we are a Premier League outfit with a youth team mentality. That fear of losing a game has been taken away by our manager who is just concerned with players ’expressing’ themselves rather than being professional, hard nosed, and downright attritional when the time requires it: the games vs Chelsea, Stoke, Bournemouth are classic examples of this.

My mate is a massive Blue and goes home and away, which unfortunately I can no longer do due to work; he’s still a big fan of the manager and thinks it’s the players to blame, and I put it to him that our squad on paper is comparable to Spurs, Man Utd, and better than Leicester's, yet Van Gaal is the only one having to answer question’s about his job security and his team underperforming? Why aren’t the same question’s coming Martinez way?

I can only think that the press lads go in there fully loaded but then, as soon as Martinez opens his mouth and spouts his usual shite, the press either run out of time or just think this lad is clearly mentally ill and we can’t pressure the afflicted. My money is on the latter and I find it amazing that very few pundits/press outside the club think this guy is making an absolute bollocks of the squad he has.

I couldn’t care less if we won the FA Cup, or finished in the top 8 this year, the manager must go. It’s a top 4 squad, simple as.

a) Winning the FA cup will not pacify me as regards keeping Martinez. He shouldn't get the next 2 games let alone the rest of the season. His football is insipid, tedious and unproductive. His excuses are insulting to fans and if I hear bad luck one more time......

b) We don't particularly play attractive football. Lets look at who we have played when we play decent football. Sunderland, Villa. We scored lots of goals against 2 of the worst teams to come to Goodison. Even the RS scored 6 away from home against Villa. You can count on one hand the games we have played well in. City in the cup at home, Chelski and Southampton early season, Stoke away. I am struggling after that as to when we have played well for the full game. Truth is we play well against poor unorganised teams but any team worth its salt and we struggle. We have beaten only 1 team above us. Shocking in the extreme. Yes we have improved from last season but that is hardly a shining endorsement for progression. Now the pro Martinez have taken to blaming the fans for our poor home record.

The sooner this guy gets sacked the better. Is not good enough and never has been. This has been some of the worst football I have witnessed for an age. I include the Walker and Walter years in that also because you knew that team was rubbish. At least they put marginally more effort in the games. There is a reason why the atmosphere is so bad at Goodison and that is due to the football being slow and boring. Its akin to death by a thousand cuts. Very very painful. When it has really mattered we have been found wanting. We do not play attractive football, see any game against teams above us if you want any kind of confirmation for that. Its very easy to get wrapped up in the "its only the defence thats the problem" excuse but its not. Attack is also a problem too. You only need to look at last Saturday for evidence of that too. Any team with half a clue about defence can easily shut us out.

Martinez can't go soon enough for me and an FA cup win will mean nothing if he is still in charge. Never felt so annoyed watching Everton in over 40 years of going to the game.

And finally from Roberto Martinez, who is clearly prioritising the Premier League over the FA Cup.

"We need to look at the league first, we have 36 points to fight for and we are not far from the European places, that is what we are going to fight for," he said.

"We just want to enjoy the tie against Bournemouth. The disappointment from the league game [Everton led before drawing 3-3] was that we didn’t hold on to victory."

Maybe the penny has dropped: FA Cup win – £8M prize money. Premier League 4th place instead of 12th – £24M+ place money.

"It’s a top 4 squad, simple as." – Can I ask what you are basing that on?

Better squad than Man City? Arsenal? Man Utd? I’d even ask better than Chelsea who – if you hadn’t noticed – are also having a poor season.

I would say, on paper, our team is inferior to all those and on a par with Spurs and Liverpool; and as for Leicester – we are on paper better than them but this season it's just clicked for them.

So realistically we are a top 6 side with the POTENTIAL (if we have a bit of luck) to maybe push for 4th.

I think the fans are starting to now believe the player hype that everyone wants our players so we must be a top 4 side, when in reality that is just not the case.