The Marriage Isn't Over... Yet

Paul Withe 10/03/2016 31comments  |  Jump to last
We Evertonians have to put up with more than most fans. Just when things start looking genuinely promising, with the new and hopefully exciting investment, some decent results and performances and a Cup QF to look forward to, and even a new contract agreed for Besic (a player with genuine potential), we’re brought back down to earth with a bump. Actually, last Saturday I think most fans went below earth, down into the depths of despair, but then we shouldn’t be surprised I guess.

In the immediate aftermath of the West Ham catastrophe, my thoughts were to point the finger of blame at the players as if Lukaku had scored a pen or the other gilt edged chance he missed we would have won the game. And if our supposed defence had properly dealt with at least one of the 3 crosses that led to their goals we would have salvaged (maybe) a draw.

Likewise surely Martinez can’t be blamed for ridiculous indiscipline from Mirallas and for all the furore about his substitutions his change at HT to bring in Besic worked well (even if just highlighted the fact that playing Stones in the first place was stupid).

Now while I still stand by some of the above, anyone who watches even the odd game will know there is a bigger problem. This is not the first time we’ve thrown away seemingly unassailable leads (although we have been on the end of some major refereeing mistakes) and some of our defending in the last couple of years has been shambolic – I’ve still not forgiven the Dynamo debacle in the Europa League.

So where do we go from here? As I write this, I’m clinging to the hope that we might beat Chelsea on Saturday and still potentially have something to shout about by the end of the season. As, on our day, we can beat anybody. But if a defeat comes, which wouldn’t be a massive surprise, the post mortems will begin.

In the last few months, the Martinez rhetoric and soundbites, that at first when he arrived were music to our ears after increasingly dour times under Moyes, have started to wind me up no end. But at the same time I would love Roberto to turn this around, learn the error of his ways and build on the exceptional potential this crop of players has. I want him to succeed and see us play the best football in the country and challenge at the top end of the league. And I want everyone else to be proved wrong, that he will get it right.

But then I take a step back and look at the mounting evidence against him. And then I am in the camp of the “ship him out before we lose all the aforementioned exciting young players” brigade. I will move onto who could replace him in a bit.

However, if, as I expect, Martinez is still there at the start of next season (as the new “owner” won’t want to make that sort of decision yet), and I had the opportunity to sit down with him for 15 mins, I think I would offer one piece of advice. To know when to hold your hands up and admit you’re wrong or have made a mistake. To know when to ask for help, to find that missing piece of the jigsaw (I know that sounds like a RS-type cliché, sorry!).

There is no shame in identifying your weaknesses and looking to rectify them. Imagine what an impact having a defensive coach like Dave Watson in his backroom team could do. Imagine what even a slight tweak to his tactics could do, if after getting a healthy lead in a game, we do go slightly more cautious. Rather than going gung ho to win games 4 or 5 nil, why not shut up shop, encourage teams to get frustrated and desperate and then take advantage on the break when they make mistakes. Rather than inviting them to score a goal.

None of this hasn’t been said before, but maybe we need to take a step back. This manager isn’t the worst one we’ve had. He has some great and very progressive ideas and has attracted some superb young players and assembled a squad that should be top 4 minimum. We play superb football when it comes together. And the way he handles the Stones situation was worthy of much praise in my book. And he is young enough (in theory) to learn and improve.

But then his biggest flaw may well be the one which undoes all of the good work and leads to his downfall – the fact that he is so stubborn, he will never admit he’s wrong or change anything about his beliefs.

In some ways I do feel sorry for him as Everton fans can be harsh and very quick to sharpen the knives. But if we’re being realistic, unless things change dramatically in his mind-set he will never reach the heights we had originally hoped (and he believes in) and a change will be necessary before it’s too late.

So who would come in? The obvious but not very exciting candidates would be mentioned – the likes of Hughes, Karanka, etc. I personally think Eddie Howe has the potential to be a top manager, but not now, not for a few years. Then you have the likes of Bilic (who we clearly have now missed the boat on), Koeman and De Boer. Any of these would be exciting enough to get us all optimistic again.

And while this article doesn’t probably answer any of the obvious questions on what we should do next or come to any sort of groundbreaking conclusions, I am going to end on one opinion, which many of you probably won’t share – if we win on Saturday, I’m prepared to forget the other stuff, at least for now. I’m prepared to push the other stuff under the carpet and deal with at a later date, if we can go all the way to Wembley and enjoy a day I’ve personally only experienced once in my time supporting Everton – a trophy.

Let’s get behind the lads on Saturday, including the manager, and remember who we are and why we’re the best set of fans in the country. And then we can deal with our bigger problems later...

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Reader Comments (31)

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Alan Bodell
1 Posted 10/03/2016 at 19:15:42
Paul, we will get behind them on Saturday and it will be electric and for me it’s a win/win because a win takes us to Wembley and prolongs his departure and a lose gets us a manager that can take such talent to a far higher place than this idiot.

He’s had enough time now and it doesn’t seem to be working.

Dave Lynch
2 Posted 10/03/2016 at 19:18:38
I always get behind the team regardless of who is in the technical area.

That will change though if Moyes ever comes back.

Paul Andrews
3 Posted 10/03/2016 at 19:35:16
Excellent article Paul.

He is the Everton manager, we are Evertonians.

Our support for ANY Everton manager should be unequivocal during the game.

Colin Glassar
4 Posted 10/03/2016 at 19:37:12
Same here Dave. Never go back!
Andy Thompson
5 Posted 10/03/2016 at 19:38:44
Martinez out. No more excuses, no more time is needed lets just get on with making the right decision. Honestly, what is the point waiting until next season for more of the same? Though having said that I still have this recurring nightmare he will still be there at the start of next season...?
Sid Logan
6 Posted 10/03/2016 at 19:43:42
Paul,

If the West Ham game had been a one off much of what you've said would be right. Unfortunately Saturday's result is becoming a recurring event.

Any call to "get behind the lads" always slightly offends me. I've never, ever seen a game start when the fans have not been right behind the team. It normally takes the team to begin playing at a lethargic pace from back to front with more passing than goal efforts for their enthusiasm to begin to be dampened.

This more often than not (but I accept not always) is the way we play under Martinez!

Dave Lynch
7 Posted 10/03/2016 at 19:44:28
I'm telling yer Col.

If the re-employ him I'm finished with Everton.

David Hallwood
8 Posted 10/03/2016 at 19:46:20
In all Moyes tenure, there was plenty of anti-Moyes sentiments on TW, but there was also a lot of Moyes supporters-possibly about 35% of TWebbers.

But with Martinez it's 100% against-ok maybe 99%, and if that dept of feeling is replicated by every blue, he hasn't got a hope of being the manager next season.

So for me the marriage is well and truly over, we're just still living in the same house.

Dave Lynch
9 Posted 10/03/2016 at 19:47:36
Slightly off topic but why would the fat waiter take the NUFC job, they are practically certs to go down and I can't see him wanting to manage in the championship.

Unless he has a get out clause in his contract if they do take the drop.

Kevin Tully
10 Posted 10/03/2016 at 19:52:41
It’s a strange one really. We’ve all seen managers over the years, not just at Everton, and you know their time is up. Their team isn’t performing, and you can spot the players just aren’t giving everything on the pitch. Teams like this have lost before they even cross the white line, and this is precisely the scenario playing out at Newcastle & Villa.

That’s not happening here, we delivered what I thought was our best performance of the season last Saturday (for 70 min’s!) when you consider we were down to ten men. I would love to hear what the players think of Martinez, are they still behind him? I’m not talking about the likes of Osman, Pienaar or Howard. Do Lukaku, Stones, Barkley, Besic, Deulofeu all want to play for him, and stay at the club?

We have a fine away record this season, and have given some great performances on the road, but that seems to be completely overlooked because of our horrendous home form. I believe any manager worth his salt could have any Everton side performing to par, especially at home. Two banks of four and lone strikers with a No 10 playing off him could happen tomorrow, and normal service would be resumed.

It all boils down to one question, can Martinez become a more defensively minded manager? Probably not, and that’s a shame – it also seems an unbelievably naive approach from a man who has been in football all his life.

I still think he will be here next season though, regardless of the result on Saturday.



Colin Glassar
11 Posted 10/03/2016 at 19:57:47
Dave, he'll probably get a million quid for ten games and a million quid if he keeps them up. Two million for a few weeks work ain't bad. The FSW won't be looking to stay on further than that.

Kevin, I want to believe, I really do but he makes it so hard.

Chris Leyland
12 Posted 10/03/2016 at 20:05:03
Dave Lynch (2),

I always get behind the team regardless of who is in the technical area. That will change though if Moyes ever comes back.

So, it isn’t ’regardless of who is in the techincal area’ then is it?

Paul Kossoff
13 Posted 10/03/2016 at 20:09:35
Lennon possiblle hamstring injury but Ovedio may train Friday.
Have to have a go at this lot for, let's say 98 minutes.
Dave Lynch
14 Posted 10/03/2016 at 20:11:25
It is at the moment Chris but won't be if that prick comes back.

Martin Mason
15 Posted 10/03/2016 at 20:18:35
Watching Everton is a bit like Groundhog Day. Most clubs have cycles where they are poor and get relegated then come back up and win lots like United or go on long improved runs like Spurs and Leicester.

When they are poor, clubs tend to have long poor runs and vice versa but Everton are the only club I’ve seen that, since that idiot took over coaching the side, we can go from unwatchably bad at home one week to scintillatingly brilliant away the next, from beaten by the bottom to winning against the best, from defending well (like Man City away) to schoolboy defence.

The problem we have three Hog days and we don’t know which we’ll get from week to week. The untouchable team, the unwinnable team and the team that is both in separate halfs.

This inconsistency is a classic indication of tactical mismanagement yet concurrent proof that the players can produce the goods. I really understand those who are saying don’t be hasty and hasn’t he done some good things and yes that is true but he is now proven to be a serial failure as a manager with a grim refusal to learn from his patent failures or, worse still, even recognise them.

Dan Davies
16 Posted 10/03/2016 at 20:48:59
We have some good talent individually defence wise but collectively something is wrong, they are all international players, they should not be making the mistakes they are.

To me it seems they are struggling because either their not drilled enough or properly also they lack confidence at times in games, ie, the last 20 minutes. For me the manager/coaches surely are to blame for this. Martinez sides leak goals it is a fact. Sorry but he’s got to go; he’s inept at defence... it's time for somebody new.

Patrick Murphy
17 Posted 11/03/2016 at 00:22:15
Paul,

Much of what you have written is fair; apart from this sentence ’In some ways I do feel sorry for him as Everton fans can be harsh and very quick to sharpen the knives’,

a) sympathy should be reserved for people who deserve it, not for football managers, who choose to do the job and get paid handsomely for it.

b) If Evertonians are harsh and too quick to sharpen their knives, it makes me wonder which set of fans are more forgiving or have shown more patience than Evertonians? I can’t think of many if any – but I would be happy to know who they are.

Gary Russell
18 Posted 11/03/2016 at 00:32:10
Beat me to it Patrick. This is wrong in my opinion.

"In some ways I do feel sorry for him as Everton fans can be harsh and very quick to sharpen the knives."

Don Alexander
19 Posted 11/03/2016 at 00:54:05
The fact that Martinez is still ballsing it up three years in succession is ample testimony to the fact that Everton fans do not "quickly sharpen their knives", and that might just be a big part of the problem in achieving success.
Darren Hind
20 Posted 11/03/2016 at 06:30:34
"The Martinez rhetoric and soundbites that at first when he arrived were music to our ears."

Speak for yourself, mate, I was regularly rounded upon on here for saying he was taking the piss out of Evertonians asking us to believe the pie-in-the-sky bollocks he regularly came out with. Nearly everyone has seen through him now, but it would appear there are still a few people who are happy to have the piss taken out of them.

I can only describe these people as the "Desperate to be right". They would rather he took us down further every season than accept the undying devotion they demonstrated was misplaced.

The senior pros took matters into their own hands and saved him last season; I expect them to do it again this year – starting tomorrow.

This nonsense that he has attracted some great young players annoys me too. We have Lukaku because we paid more than anyone else was prepared to pay for him, not because the manager is a magnet for bright young stars; let's not forget, the Leeds lad had another option... and he took it in a heartbeat.

Take Lukaku (and maybe Besic, who was overlooked for most of last season) out of the equations and Roberto has been very poor with his buys.

Approaching £100m spent, he is squandering his inheritance and is making international defenders look fools.

BTW Paul; You may think it was "stupid" to play Stones on Saturday, but most people will remember the scoreline when he left the field.

A world class youngster being destroyed by a second-rate manager

Paul Andrews
21 Posted 11/03/2016 at 06:54:41
A world class youngster?

That is a stretch of the imagination to say the least.

At the moment he is a defender who can’t defend. Very good on the ball, but world class defender? Nah.

Brent Stephens
22 Posted 11/03/2016 at 11:07:26
Stones might be a world class youngster one day but there’s little sign of that at the moment. I feel sorry for the lad, and for us, after his initial development with us – which has now stalled.
David Harrison
23 Posted 11/03/2016 at 11:35:32
"The Dynamo Debacle" will (has) repeatedly happened because this manager is clueless about setting up a team to KITAP1.

I’m not suggesting this should be our overriding style of play but you can’t hope to get success when it takes 3 goals to get something out of the game (or 4 against Stoke).

Ian Hollingworth
24 Posted 11/03/2016 at 12:31:25
His time is up if we have any real ambition.

I also think he is one of the worst managers we have ever had.

Peter Roberts
25 Posted 11/03/2016 at 12:50:23
Darren,

Please add Funes Mori and Cleverley to that list who I think have been good additions this season. Barry also who has been, for the main part, excellent over the last three seasons.

Anto Byrne
26 Posted 11/03/2016 at 13:02:34
We are 12th in the league for a reason: we are not that good. Losing to WBA, WHU and Swansea at home and of course Stoke. 12 points that should have all been home bankers. Capitulation at Bournemouth and again at Chelsea when there were only seconds left on the clock blew another possible 6 points.

Where would we be with say another 12 points in the bag. 47 points and right in the mix. Six results that were either poor team selection and/or poor substitutions. Remember we were 3-2 up at home to Stoke and 2-0 up at home with West Ham and blew it.

We just didn’t learn from from those games earlier in the season and now, as games run out, it's all too late. Our home form is masked by our results away from home but overall its no better than relegation form.

Some players are just not good enough or consistent and have to be moved on. We just spent £13mil on a player who looks no better than Kone. I hope I’m wrong.

Mike Powell
29 Posted 11/03/2016 at 17:43:52
I have stopped going to Goodison because off this clown. I will watch the game in the pub. I will always be a blue. I am sick and tired of being depressed every week, watching my beloved blues, and it is all down to this baffoon. I don't want Moyes back but I am convinced, if he was in charge off this set off players, we would be in top four, so the sooner he gets out of our club, the better.
Darren Hind
30 Posted 11/03/2016 at 18:19:01
John Stones began this season as the most sought after youngster in world football, despite his age, one of the most successful managers of modern times wanted to pay around £40m for him. The most respected commentators could not get enough of him. He woke up every day to read reports that all the top clubs in the world were keeping tabs on him. People who had supported this club for decades were in total awe of this prodigious talent.

Fast forward a few months... he isn't even getting a game in a defence which is the laughing stock of football, he has had his confidence destroyed by a guy who thinks it's a good idea to play him at right back, he is having a miserable second season similar to the one Barkley had last season... and yet the apologists still blame the player.

"At the moment, he's a defender who cant defend"

You couldn't make this stuff up... On a thread which is about the manager, we have people attacking one of our brightest young stars in years in an attempt to deflect blame from him.

At what point does this manager take the responsibility? We have at least EIGHT international defenders who can't defend at the moment... I wonder why that is?

Stones will be back to his world class best when he doesn't have a second-rater overseeing his development

Andy Walker
35 Posted 12/03/2016 at 16:54:57
Still the anti Moyes narrative rumbles on with a few diehards. Ask yourelves this, when you were walking back home from Goodison Park when Moyes was our manager, did you feel as crap after we had usually won compared to now when we have usually lost?

Was his ginger hair and Scottish accent so overwhelmingly difficult to cope with that you would rather we had this serial loser in charge?

Moyes will not return, and I don’t think he should, but, if he was our manager this season, we’d be much higher than 12th.

Is there any logical argument to make that watching the blues under Martinez is more enjoyable than under Moyes, or is this anti-Moyes view just pure prejudice?

Ian Hollingworth
36 Posted 12/03/2016 at 17:07:09
No way Moyes should come back but harsh reality is Moyes is a better manager than Martinez. That’s not hard though as Roberto is one of the worst managers in the league. Look at the facts and stats that’s all you have to do.
Chris Davies
37 Posted 14/03/2016 at 13:58:47
The John Stones situation reminds me of a certain Seamus Colemen a few years ago, a defender, that "couldn’t defend". Moyes obviously, or evidently coached his mistakes out of him while alowing his ability on ball to shine. His place in a pragmatic Moyesian team, was right midfield to learn his trade.

My hunch, is that if Moyes were still our manager, Stones would be playing Jimmy Mac’s role until his positional sense and all round defensive capabilities were almost perfect.

The difference between Moyes and Martinez in a nutshell. My choice? Neither.

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