The End of the Road, in More Ways than One

I note now that Martinez odds as the next Premier League Manager to be sacked have dropped from 50/1 a few weeks ago, to 16/1 after the Swansea game, to 12/1 tonight. That makes him joint third favourite for the boot, behind (obviously) Van Gaal and Remi Garde, and level with Alex Neil and Steve McClaren.

As fans we have, at times, lamented our board’s perceived reticence to dispense with managers’ services, but the tides they are a-turnin’ and I believed sustained pressure from the fans, directed at Martinez on websites such as these, radio phone-ins, at at the ground will see the board forced to make the inevitable and, albeit regrettable, correct decision.

The man is a king-sized bullshitter. But I doubt Kenwright has the balls to do the right thing.

2013/14
Win% - 55%
Points per Game - 1.89
Goals Conceded per Game - 1.02

2014/15
Win% - 31%
Points per Game - 1.23
Goals Conceded per Game - 1.31

2015/16
Win% - 26%
Points per Game - 1.26
Goals Conceded per Game - 1.47

The only something special at the end of this is Parachute Payments if the Board doesn’t act this season or next. It’s already too late to save the core of Stones and Lukaku, but I’ll despair if he’s still around to spend the £80M we receive.

Every season these days seems to bring with it a game that is too much of a disappointment, even for the most hardened of Evertonians. Tonight was mine – whether it’s the consistent bad luck of a deflection, ALWAYS seeming to be on the wrong end of an outrageous ref decision and the fact that these days even with a two goal lead you just KNOW that we will conspire to give it all back through circus defending.

Time’s up Roberto. Could do worse than Eddie Howe once he’s kept Bournemouth up. He grew up an Evertonian, gotta feel like he’d be tempted, as much as he loves Bournemouth. They play good football, he seems a diligent, well rounded coach and with better individuals to work with, you wonder if he could go to the next level.

How would everyone be feeling if we were sitting here having recently won at Stamford Bridge for the first time in 20 years, and having just booked our place at Wembley for a shot at our first trophy in 20 years? Both very possible outcomes if officials had not missed a blatant offside, and a blatant ball out of play.

Whether positive results in those two fixtures would have simply papered over cracks created by an ultimately fatally flawed manager is open for debate.

I think we probably do need a new face in charge. But for love of God, please could we choose someone with a bit of luck on his side because without bad luck, Bobby would have virtually no luck at all!

Hey Jamie, let's pick Di Matteo. He won UCL despite being caretaker. Gotta have luck to do that!

As I stated on another thread, did he not bother to ask him to explain what were his tactics to stop them getting relegated, and what tactics did he use to improve their steady increase in goals on the defensive side of the game.

As other people have said, he was hired after a result in one game, there appears to be no due diligence done when hiring a manager after David Moyes left.

If Roberto goes, would we lose...

Lukaku
Stones
Barkley
Deulofeu

All in one summer?

There goes our youth. Watch it as it goes. There goes our youth. We’re ordinary.

With apologies to Foo Fighters and David Groehl for embellishing lyrics.

I think that’s a legitimate concern moving forward. If Roberto were to go, we’d need someone who would keep the focus on the young player, and make sure the ones we have don’t exit stage left. Or at least a majority stay...

I stepped over the Rubicon on Sunday. I should imagine there’s quite a few other posters who’ve finally had enough after last night.

That’d not be a good thing, Jack...

As long as we sell them for good money, I don’t worry as much, but we do need the right man steering the ship.

With the money generated from the sale of Stones and Lukaku, there should be more than enough for a capable manager to work with. Adding the influx of TV money, I think considering the squad we have, the Everton managers job would be tempting proposition for many managers.

It's clear that we’re missing McCarthy badly (and Besic also). Without those two providing cover, the defence is really creaky.

Clearly Martinez has a way of playing but it does not win games. The trend of conceding goals be it penalties, deflections, poor refereeing decisions (that we have also benefited from) is not the only factor in the string of poor results at this club.

Look at the manager and his insistence to play Kone ahead of Mirallas or Naismith. We have a goalkeeping crisis where the crowd have turned on Howard (Yes he has had his day and should move on). A defensive midfield of Barry and McCarthy that offer very little in creativity.

Barkley is a prodigious talent but defending is not in his locker. Lukaku is world class as is Deulofeu one player it seems only has 60 minutes in his tank so what’s the story with that?

Last night, we had a fullback on the bench that would have contained their winger Sterling, he was too quick for Stones and even though the ball went out of play very few would have seen it in real time; we have all done it and got away with it.

Just how was the eventual goalscorer allowed so much time and space and what about the free header for another goal. They hit the post twice and miscued an open goal. On paper its 4-3 it could have easily been 6 or 7.

We did have a glorious chance of a second; however, their second-choice keeper made a stop without too much bother as the shot was piss poor.

I can't blame individual errors but something is seriously wrong when we get punished every time. Just how stupid is Baines making a half-hearted attempt to clear the ball with his heel when he should have been reading the play and intercepted the pass.

Unlucky deflection is more poor defending. Get in a manager to teach them the fundamentals of defending in numbers and then we can fanny around in the middle. STOP CONCEDING GOALS...

110 goals! Frankly, with an appalling win ratio and such a dreadful defensive record, whether we retain Stones et al is irrelevant. This is simply an unacceptable record.

Martinez out please, BK.

Truth is once it’s officially confirmed we will once again miss European ball next season, Lukaku and Stones will be gone and possibly one or two more along with them. Who could really blame them really? The organization is completely void of any ambition.

There is something terribly wrong with the mental makeup of this squad and I don’t consider our current version of Stuart Smalley being up to the task of sorting that out.

Or:-

Useless twit of a manager cant organize a defensive approach to a game or see out a 2 goal lead in the last quarter or a 2 legged contest....

I give up!

This is why Stones is not a right back and why I haven’t been a fan of McCarthy since he did the same when up against Arsenal last season.

Many of our players deserve better than they are being given right now. I’m holding thumbs that IF we get new owners they will come with the financial muscle to keep Barkley and Rom for a little longer by investing in the team and a new world class manager...

I feel sorry for all you Evertonians going to work to tomorrow and having to put up with the slagging from the Red Shite. I do not have that, I am really upset. I have supported Everton since August 1966 when Alan Ball made his debut at Fulham.
I thought it was year.

Martinez Out!

This man should have gone last season.

Our one any only priority now should be to grind out another 10 points – if it is at all possible, and stay up.

3-1 up and so open it’s just suicide

Stones was an absolute sitting duck at rightback. He just doesn't have the necessary pace. With Coleman on the bench, we should have given the role to Lennon.

Not sure Ossie was the right choice either, despite a decent performance in the first leg. Better he had played against Swansea with Pienaar kept for this one. A much tougher lad altogether. A sad case of misplaced loyalty.

A couple of very fortunate goals but, all in all, City looked like a team. We look like a bunch of hard working, talented individuals all doing their own thing with no idea of how to create chances, especially for the isolated Lukaku who had the beating of their centrebacks. That said, he needs to learn to get in front of his marker instead of continually waiting for something on the plate.

Wouldn't be surprised if someone snapped up our top goalscorer in the summer but Stones will have to redeem his glowing reputation before going anywhere. People will not want a slow moving defender who loses concentration at vital moments.

Where we go from here is anyone's guess but, even if we lose one or two, I can see the overall squad becoming stronger. Martinez definitely has a long term plan but will he still be here to see it through? Time will tell.

The storm clouds are certainly gathering over Goodison...

Twenty two years is a long time for such a great club to go without winning a trophy. Somebody needs to answer for such a scenario.

On the semi final as a whole, while over the two games we got as many calls as the winners, they are simply better than us; with the level of their investment, they should be.

I think we'd be having a slightly better season if the officials didn't keep screwing us over but, as others have mentioned elsewhere, you make your own luck to an extent and if Stones hadn't given Sterling such a loose leash in that instance, he probably wouldn't have got to the byline in the first place.

Speaking of Stones – and ignoring Harold's (27) slightly acerbic remarks about me mis-remembering Aguero's positioning (sheesh, you make one error and that's all people focus on! The point is that Stones had completely lost him) – I agree that he was a sitting duck at right back because he was playing out of position. One can only assume it was because Coleman wasn't fit enough and I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that better have been the reason.

Finally, regarding talk of an exodus were Martinez to get the old "Spanish archer", I think it would depend on whom was appointed as his successor. Get a big enough (unlikely, he'd be too expensive) or sufficiently forward-thinking man in and the likes of Lukaku might feel moved to give it one more go because they must surely be as disenchanted with Roberto as the growing number of supporters.

And unless an outstanding candidate is available and affordable, that’s how it should be. In the meantime, BK will have to live with the folly of the Catalan’s appointment.

If he's allowed to carry on it could be disastrous, time will tell, BK seems incapable of making a decision, but it might be forced on him before too long.

Normally I would agree with you that 10 points from 15 games is achievable. However, just look at us. The football we are playing is not getting results. Nothing is changing and Martinez is adamant that it won’t.

The more we keep throwing games away, well, confidence of the players must be bloody low and getting worse. As these results and performances continue the crowd will get more vocal against the team Sunday quite rightly.

Over the years we have seen many teams go into freefall, some really good teams. 10 points doesn’t sound a lot but, with this lot, it could well be...

On any other day there’d be some honour in last night's performance but it still was stained with RM’s incompetence.

Frankly I see the opposite, if he stays we are going nowhere and our best players will see that.

Presuming Coleman returns to the team at the weekend, if he decides to pick Stones over Funes Mori that will be the final straw for me. Stones needs a spell on the bench and a kick up the arse.

This morning I am feeling incredibly frustrated with the inevitability of it all.

What saddens me right now is how our wonderful fans, and that includes me, are treated. In my opinion like sheep, cattle, stock, we are told nothing, informed of little, spoken to, encouraged, engaged with. No none of these.

If only someone would talk (not to) but with us. Give us some encouragement. No pay your money, sit and watch and just accept whatever we throw at you.

We know little beyond rumours of Kenwright’s illness, sympathy for him but it does affect OUR Club. We know nothing beyond hearsay of the proposed takeover, of our Stadium situation.

Is it beyond Martinez and the players to tell us how they feel and to give US the paying fans some words of sympathy for our state as at this morning, to even speak to us, to tell the truth. I don’t want public slagging but I am fed up generally with mis-information and non-communication.

Finally, a little poem from Yevgeny Yevtushenko:

Telling Lies to the young is wrong.
Proving to them that lies are true is wrong.
Telling them
that God's in his heaven
and all's well with the world
is wrong.
They know what you mean.
They are people too.
Tell them the difficulties
can't be counted,
and let them see
not only
what will be
but see
with clarity
these present times.
Say obstacles exist they must encounter,
sorrow comes,
hardship happens.
The hell with it.
Who never knew
the price of happiness
will not be happy.
Forgive no error
you recognize,
it will repeat itself,
a hundredfold
and afterward
our pupils
will not forgive in us
what we forgave.

However, going along with this positivity at all costs lark, I do believe, in this moment, that his tenure will have been an incredible experience and a represents a phenomenal learning opportunity for me.

We, the club, are in a very dangerous position regarding staying in the Premier League, very dangerous indeed.

He can’t get anywhere near the best out of the 11 players that he fields each week. There are one or two stand out individual performances every now and again, but as a team we are shocking.

Right now, who would be better placed to convince any of our young players to give Everton another season? A new man with new ideas and proper tactics, or Martinez, where we are already seeing an alarming decline? I’d say the former.

Martinez Out!

Leicester have, on paper, a far inferior squad to Everton but they all give their best and their manager CAN get the best out of them. Martinez could have Messi, Pele, Ronaldo etc. in his team and they’d look crap.

Martinez (and his coaching baboons) out.

In the meantime we should be determine the qualities that we want in a new manager. The Premier League is going to be awash with money and we should be able to attract a good coach.

Some of my wants in a new coach would be: track record of developing and improving youngsters, tactically aware, can organise his teams to attack and defend, record of winning trophies or significantly over achieving, five years experience managing in a top league, good record in the transfer market.

Once we’ve identified what we want in a manager then we should go looking for them, not the other way round.

This season, I can honestly say is the worst I've ever seen from from officials involving Everton games. We must have upset somebody because, apart from the Stones penalty that wasn't against Man City, everything has gone against us.

But, referees aside, we are our own worst enemies and Martinez must take the bulk of the blame: Why play out-of-form Stones at right back when Coleman was available? Stones needs to be dropped now – hes already thinking hes too big for our team.

Coming out of the ground last night, there was a lot of angry fans calling for Martinez to go, and I can only agree with them, but who is out there to take over? I certainly don't want Moyes back! Ahh well... onto Carlisle where we'll probably scrape through – then get drawn away against City!!!

A very perceptive and accurate piece.

It actually lifted my spirits after a last night’s depressive result.

None of us know whether anyone at the club ever reads ToffeeWeb – they should of course because it as good as any focus group many a big business would love to have.

My guess is that the people who can make decisions at the club prefer to live life in their own little bubble. Let’s hope if any of them do stray out of it they read your Thai article which perfectly describes where we’re collectively at as a club and as supporter.

Joe Royle and David Unsworth would do me as a temporary solution while we search for a real manager.

My great fear is that I don’t know how the board (Bill or no Bill) has the knowledge to judge who is and isn’t a good manager for us.

Dare I invest any further hope in the prospect of the takeover rumours being true, with Martinez's "Spanish Archer" treatment merely deferred?

I think that echoes the feeling of many of us - however:-

John (#47) – he who hesitates is lost.

Lyndon (#30) – Fabio Capello.

Prentice, O’Keefe, Kirkbride tell us they are supporters but they do not come over as one.

Every day these Gin and Tonic merchants have access to Finch Farm and Martinez and his coaches – what do they do exactly ? All we seem to get from them are injury updates, how Hibbos dog is getting on at the vet, and the usual Martinez bullshit about almost having the perfect team.

These so called journalists, never seem to ask anything relevant, never ask the real questions. far too interested in getting their bevvy and scran on match days.

If only they knew how lucky they were having the chance to put this clown on the spot

A new manager coming, in who has their respect, has achieved success before and who gives then direction, would soon have them forgetting what went before. Their loyalty transfers very quickly to the person who gives them the best opportunity.

Barkley scored a great goal but time and time again he showed too much of the ball to a City player and got dispossessed. I desperately want him to do it for Everton but I don’t think he has the footballing brain. He’s too greedy at times and doesn’t get his head up. He’s not aggressive enough. I would cash in on him.

I thought Baines was awful last night.

Deulofeu is a wonderful talent but he’s shattered after 60 minutes. He also doesn’t do well in one-on-ones. Remember the Goodison derby when he hit it at Mignolet? Players like Henry and Suarez finish those off every time.

I don’t see what Cleverley adds. We desperately missed Besic last night. He’s the only one who seems to want to win.

I knew this would happen with Stones. He would make mistakes and get crucified. He’s got too big for his boots and he needs dropping. I’m afraid to say that with hindsight, we should have cashed in over summer.

There's been some great memories and games under Roberto: winning at Old Trafford, drawing at the Emirates and outplaying them, the first derby at Goodison, some great UEFA performances, beating Man Utd at Goodison twice, outplaying Arsenal at Goodison with Coleman's showboating keepy-uppies, the Barnsley come back etc. etc. He brought in some excellent players, particularly in his first season.

I’ve been his biggest fan but I think it’s time for him to go now. I’m not sure who we’d get. I think Mark Hughes would be a good fit.

’I say Rafe, the tea tastes rather acerbic today, what do you say?’

’Oh yaah, Toby, things have gone rapidly downhill since they stopped serving Darjeeling Fine Tippy Golden Flowery Orange Pekoe.’

’Oh absolutely, Rafe.’

With the greatest of respect to Harold, our elder statesman whose posts I enjoy, you stand your ground. Aguero starts drifting in behind Stones then makes the run across him to score the header. Neither movement was picked up by Stones.

Can we please put a stop to the "it was because Stones was hung out to dry at right back" stance? He was undone by the lack of basic defending. And it’s not the first time.

PG Tips Commercial (c 1971)

Losing at Old Trafford in 1983 was a glorious defeat, losing to our neighbours in 1984 was a glorious defeat and a few other occasions have deserved that label, last night certainly wasn’t one deserving of that title.

I’m not saying the team didn’t try its hardest or that they lacked desire but the bottom line is they are a dis-organised collection of individuals without any team pattern or proper shape.

Only a couple of players are doing a good job for the team as a whole and often we look like a poorly drilled team who are lacking the psychology to cope with the pressure of the job in hand, which is perhaps, a reflection of the man in the hot-seat?

NEVER since the formation of the Football League in 1888 has Everton not managed to chalk up at least NINE wins in a season – and that includes the very rare occasions they have suffered relegation.

So, unless this turns out to be the club's worst-ever season, we are nailed on for 38 points. Surely even the most negative among us believe we can scrape at least one more point from somewhere!

Mr Martinez said earlier on in the season that he had identified his players and would act. At the end of this transfer window we would be stronger than the start of it. Up to now we have signed two players, one a youth prospect and the other is doing his national service. They wont be helping in this campaign. Probably we’ll get someone in the next day or so,but they should have been here the first week in January...

They don’t have to be world beaters, they just have to be good, professional competent footballers who know how to play. Leicester City, West Ham Utd and Stoke City seem to be able to identify them and sign them – why can’t we? Had we bought a couple of players, forwards and a right back, would we be in the situation we are now?

It’s been obvious for some time now that we need a RB. We lost out on Sam Byram who seemed to be the type of player we want ,however, he was at a ’Nearly ’ club so why would he come to another? There are other players out there.

Other posters pointed to the RB at Partizani Tirane in Albania. He’s a far better player and more skilful than the ex Leeds lad and younger. He would also probably be a great deal cheaper. How has Roberto never seen him on one of his many football TVs but ToffeeWebbers have?

Why this obsession with Yarmelenko? I know it’s reported on the web but they’re saying a deal has been done with Arsenal. Why is all our transfer business and our alleged targets discussed so openly? Catterick would turn in his grave.

Lukaku needed help with him last night, he can’t do it all on his own, he should have had support. Deulofeu was supplying crosses but seemed frustrated and unfit, then he was taken off. End of service.

When we attacked there was only Rom. in the box,when City attacked they had three or four.

Everton could attract a decent, competent manager who knows how to set a team up,to defend and play attacking forward moving football. The Watford manager has somehow done it with fifteen or so strangers!!! I don’t see paying his wages would be a problem, we managed to pay Mr Moyes. Managerially we are a very attractive club.

We could well be sold in the next moth or so. If that happens I hope due diligence is spent on sourcing a new manager and support team for him. It doesn’t matter to me that they "don’t get Everton", what is more important is that they do their job properly. We have players that aren’t in Roberto’s plans, Gibson and McGeady. He wants to send them out on loan but not sell them Tony Hibbert is a RB but can’t get into the squad. Steven Pienaar... They are yesterday’s men so what’s the point?

What next ????

The 86 team lost away at Oxford United to gift them lot the league. We pulverised them in the cup final until Gary Stevens messed up. The bad luck is untrue. 1-0 up in the semi-final against the RS and Distin messes up. Saha puts us 1-0 up in the first minute of our last cup final and we lose our bottle. The Villarreal debacle. Lost to penalties to Fiorentina etc. etc. Martinez ruined our last big chance which was the home tie against Wigan.

I love this club but I don’t know why we put ourselves through it. My 5 year old lad is an Evertonian but I don’t know when he’ll experience any glory.

I can only muster SACK HIM NOW but I think thats roughly the same as this article.

I am intrigues why some people think that players will leave if Martinez is not the manager.

Players join clubs for Money and some times because they think they might win something.

Players usually leave clubs because they are not getting a game or they have an opportunity with another club to earn more money or better chance of winning something.

When players leave our club, as they will and always have done it will be because of the above and not because Martinez is no longer the manager.

It is a job to them and even if they like Martinez it will not detract from the above reasons, ie, Money and silverware opportunities.

Another way of looking at it would be how many of them would want to stay for a relegation battle under Martinez?

It is interesting, recently there has been discussion about ’does a manager really matter?’ It’s an interesting question, at the end of the day the team with the best players win more often than not. But Martinez really is showing that the manager does indeed matter.

But our next one needs to be carefully picked. Many on here say ’Eddie Howe’. Personally, I don’t think another, young and upcoming manager is what we need. Eddie Howe could be the next Garry Monk for all we know. Let him stay at Bournemouth for another few years.

We need an experienced manager (At least 5 seasons in top-flight football, European experience etc), well-respected and with a certain degree of pedigree. If we must break our wage structure then so be it.

On the night, his game plan and substitutions were criminal. This club is at a crossroads now, and what happens in the next few weeks will determine whether this club can even survive the Premier League.

The only light I can see is a possible takeover then we can get rid of that twat of a manager, and with some fresh investment we may be able to persuade Rom etc to stay for at least one more season, and with some decent acquisitions over the summer we could move forward. Easier said than done of course, but I can’t and don’t want to contemplate the alternative.

Far more likely; our best players are going to leave because of Martinez. Because under his management we’ve slipped so far down the league, and he’s demonstrated that there’s little chance of those players being able to achieve their ambitions at Everton while he’s in control.

Given the various suggestions of BK’s health and lack of recent involvement, we also seem to be facing a situation where there’s nobody really taking the kind of decisions necessary to sack him anyway.

We wouldn’t be talking about Chelsea and Bournemouth getting an extra minute or so of time if we’d just hoofed the ball to the other end of the pitch and kept it in their corner, managing the game down to get 3 points. Instead, poor subs and kamikaze all-out attack at any cost.

I’ve a feeling that Rom and Delo play more for Roberto than for Everton at their core. They were brought in by him, he wanted them badly, and he’s given them both a chance to prove their worth and he believes in their ability.

If he leaves, I could see them leaving for greener pastures. I think every footballer at that level realizes they simply have to play for a gaffer that believes in them – or they don’t play and their value drops / they simply don’t make as much.

Stones is gone. Of this I’m convinced. I said at the outset we signed Funes Mori as replacement for Stones and Roberto convinced / told Stones he’ll get his move but he had to give Everton another year. Hunch admittedly.

Barkley, with upheaval, could easily leave for the money.

Now someone above made a few very salient points. If they leave we will indeed have an ass-ton of money (actual quantitative measurement) to reinvest and rebuild.

Part of me says that’s good because as again someone said above, can Martinez get the best out of these players? If not, then "move on" is sound thinking.

Part of me says why in the hell would we rebuild when we’re clearly in the midst of doing so currently! We’re smack dab in the process of putting on a new face of youth and development at Everton – no one would deny that.

The question is, do we stay the course or do we start afresh?

Honestly after sleeping on it... I have no clue what the answer actually is.

I think Lyndon is as talented a writer as anyone. I think the guy could, if he were so inclined, write for Time magazine FFS. And frankly he’s always been exceedingly level-headed and not reactionary to "trends".

His article speaks a lot of truth and it has me thinking – that much I’ll say.

The bottom line is do you see the "vision" Roberto has and do you [still] want to follow the path.

I do. I think the concept is spot on for Everton.

But... for how much longer I honestly can not say. As I’ve mentioned before there are things that simply must change.

Those of us who still, to some unbelievably, back Roberto and his project want the same thing the "dissenters" do – what’s best for Everton. And despite the last few weeks, I’m holding on to the notion that the best thing is for Roberto to continue on and build this club from the ground up – with his approach and focus on talented young players.

That doesn’t make me stubborn. That doesn’t mean I can’t see the shortcomings – you’d be absolutely blind not to.

It means I realize we are going through an insanely horrific time but want to give Roberto every single shred of rope he has before he hangs himself. Why? Because if his project actually pans out we will be so incredibly happy we stuck with it.

If not... we’ll hire some middling dude, our younger players will most likely realize they’re not playing for a club that will give them a fair chance, we won’t be sitting on a business plan that is literally capable of making millions by buying kids at disgustingly low prices and selling them on for a king’s ransom, and we’ll finish 7th to 8th – all the while concentrating on both ends of the pitch.

But it’s getting to the point where I can’t back "the plan" much longer.

I tell you what else I’ve been thinking.

I’m fed up – FED UP – with our attitude. I’ve said forever Jags is WAY to nice a guy. Baines as well. Barry has been excellent but again... when have you ever, ever seen any of our veterans and "leaders" contest a decision??

If you want a clear-out, then ditch the lap-dog passiv-ist "leaders" we have and bring in a few players that would rather eat their own liver than lose.

The older players on the squad seemingly have accepted that losing is acceptable by their demeanor on the pitch.

For once, just once, when we are fucked by the ref somebody get up in his face and tear the guy a new one! Act like you want to win for the love of God.

Our problem, in no small part, begins with some players that have been at this club a long time...

Sadly, the reality is somewhat different. There are many factors to take into consideration regarding the removal of any manager, but here are a few you may want to consider.

I don’t think the Board, the people who make the decision, will be as concerned as us if we finish mid-table. I believe our wage bill is around 9th/10th in the League, so even if we finish 12th, are they really that upset?

For the first time in Bill’s chairmanship, we are led to believe the club is actually up for sale. We are no longer ’looking for investment,’ the current majority shareholders want to dispose of their asset to a willing buyer. For them to realise maximum returns, we only have to stay in the League.

There is still a distinct possibility we will finish around 8th place. Mr Moyes’s last four finishing league positions were 8th, 7th, 7th, and 6th in his final season. Screams from the fanbase to sack a manager finishing 9th or 10th probably won’t register at all. After all, what are the targets set for Martinez? Does anyone actually know?

All this talk of us having our most talented squad in years may well be true, but the same applies to every other team having a decent season.

Finally, and I believe this to be the most important factor, Martinez’s transfer policy will ensure the current/new board don’t have to dip into their own pockets. Lukaku will go for a minimum of £50m, Stones (a Moyes buy) possibly £40m. The sell to buy policy that has funded our transfers for the last 16 years is well and truly flourishing.

The question we need to ask is, would a club with no ambition sack a manager who can keep our head above water?

Same goes for Stones with all the media clamour about his move, his agent will also be talking to other clubs. Anybody who doesn't think this is going on must live in the same cuckoo world as our manager.

The only way these players would have been persuaded to stay was a Champions league place and a massive increase in salary, neither will happen so they will be off.

As I have said before Deulofeu is here on a loan agreement, were Barca already have agreed a timescale and fee for there buyback clause. Even RM has said he has no say in what happens with Deulofeu, so why was this deal made out to be a something it wasn't.

The potential (likely) sell-on value of our more coveted player assets serves as ample insurance against lost revenue of dropping places in the table or drop in gate revenue. As long as we stay up this season (highly likely at this point) then there really is very little threat to the current board/investor’s financial stake. That is the only thing that will trigger action in absence of any ambition.

I fear we are stuck with this clown until the end of the season and if the club is not sold, likely longer unless something drastic changes with the club’s finances adversely threatening investment value.

"(If there is a silver lining, of course, it's that the inevitable psychological collapse against Liverpool at Wembley next month has been averted, but with it goes the opportunity to finally address a mentality of inferiority and a lack of fortitude that appears to pervade the club nowadays.)"

When you say something like that, I presume you are including yourself.

NEVER will that shower EVER be superior to us in my eyes. I would take every chance we get to play them.

You keep posting that Deulofeu is on a loan agreement – he isn’t. He is on a buyback agreement. I know also that you’ve said that is the same thing – it isn’t either.

The reason is that a loan agreement guarantees that he goes back at the end of the season which I think is when the option is for from what has been reported. I don’t think they will come calling on Gerry for the very same reasons they sold him to us; namely that he is not consistently good enough to get in their team.

The buyback is a clause in the contract as insurance if he turned out to be the next Ronaldo which he clearly hasn’t done to date. Also, a loan means they recall their asset with no fees paid, they just reassume paying wages.

The supposed terms of buyback are, from memory, we paid £4M ish, they have to pay £12M ish, so again very very different paying back the £4M you have banked and stumping up a further £8M to a zero capital cost loan recall.

He has made no noises about wanting away and I don’t think Barca will pick up buyback on the basis of performance this season so it would be a surprise if he was not here next season. Unless he really is in love with Martinez as some hypothesise. But then he went to Sevilla, which again was Barca wanting to have a look at him in La Lisa rather than the EPL. After they had a look they sold him to us cut price, but inserted a buyback clause (with a decent profit for us I’d add) just in case.

I don’t think they are fussed about him.

I exempt Funes Mori who appears happy to get stuck into people as De Bruyne will no doubt confirm. We need more players with a nasty streak whoever manages us in the future. Unless results collapse completely there is no point in sacking Martinez before the end of the season.

We are not currently in danger of relegation, we have lost only four games since October and will surely get enough draws to stay away from trouble. The manager should however be given notice that his position is under review and be actively challenged on his performance and strategies.

Our problem, as Colin has said, is that there is leadership vacuum with nobody at Board level apparently carrying the authority or energy to do that.

When has a top six club ever appointed a manager who has just got his team relegated???

I would also like to use this opportunity to ask our fans to lay off John Stones and Tim Howard.

Yes, Howard has long since had his best days but it is not his fault if the manager keeps picking him and it’s not that long ago we were all relishing the two fingers up to Mourhino and singing "Money cant buy you Stones".

Since the lad got injured the other week he has made a few mistakes and got pilloried by supporters obviously affecting his confidence despite claims that he is too arrogant. Martinez should have protected him by taking him out of the firing line but instead exposed him at RB.

Unlike the manager the kid is top class and capable of being a great CH for years to come so please guys aim your venom where it is deserved at the incompetent manager we have.

One other point it was unclear who was supposed to be marking Aguero. It started off with Baines, then Funes Mori and the guy just ran the legs off all of our back 4. There was obviously no plan to deal with him or Silva.

Surely it depends what part of the pitch Aguero is attacking as to who picks him up?

Unless you are advocating we should have man-marked him. Something I would not agree with.

First is that our experienced stars, the ones Martinez inherited, are not going to help us win anything. That's two managers under which they have choked when it mattered. Who ever is manager is going to need to replaced them.

Second is that are young players need to learn, whether that requires time or another manager is up for debate.

Third is that Martinez clearly isn't good enough to match his own ambitions. A potentially good manager with consistently poor decision making, poor fitness management and more tellingly for me, an inability to get his instructions to his players in a clear manager. The players look so confused and incoherent.

I'm proud of the fact that were not a sack-happy club. I would have replaced him with Bilic last summer. The most important decision right now is finding the kind of manager we need to help us succeed, not one who can take us back to the mediocrity of the last manager. If the takeover is going ahead, nothing will need to happen till then; they'll already have an idea who they want to bring in. If it isn't, the first job of the 'directors' will be to make a considered decision about who's coming in next. Take your time, get it right.

A top performing Barry, McCarthy, Besic can’t help, they stop the moves through the middle and do it well, it’s when the opposition work it wide and cross the ball when total panic sets in. Look at last night, Pellegrini’s move in the 2nd half to 2 wide men with Navas coming on completely changed the game. Baines was then preoccupied and failed on numerous occasions to stop crosses.

With a pacy Sterling on the other side Stones had no chance at all. I said before the game on the Live Forum that Stones at right back would be our problem and he was for two of their goals.

Martinez has got himself into a real hole now, his best defender by a country mile is Funes Mori, yet to fit him in means either his Captain, Jagielka or Stones being dropped , and he has built both up to be world beaters – his chicken way out last night was to drop the best attacking full back in the league and to replace him with a slower, less defensive nous full back in the shape of Stones.

Martinez has to go now, a new manger needs to given 15 games to demonstrate to our younger lads that we can become a good team in both attack and defence and challenge next year for a top 6 place.

Will it happen – NO, not because the board can’t see it needs changing , but the board is Kenwright and for reasons we all know he is facing a far bigger challenge with his health and ensuring a takeover, which is right for Everton’s future. I suspect he’s hoping that Martinez can at least keep us in the Premier League and significant plans are in place to take this great club forward and our young lads see that and are willing to give another year of the career to Everton

We’re simply too open and don’t defend high enough up the pitch, as a unit. It ain’t rocket science, and people are overcomplicating our problems massively.

I hope we do serious due diligence on the next manager, hopefully one who can help us succeed in the long term, show progress year on year, and one who can stay with us for a long time.

How about we keep Roberto as Director of Football, and get Reidy or similar in to run the team! Just a thought...

Also, many of us would have been advised by now to consolidate as many posts as possible into one so as to not overwhelm the forum. That means few longer posts, fewer shorter posts.

Baines was by his own standards awful last night. Jags is brilliant but Funes More is very much a £10M player when what we need now are minimum £20M standard players in every position. If we want to progress, whoever the manager is, then we need to play proven good players in the first team and not bargains and potential. We must not be Wigan 2 and believe that, with Wigan standard players and Barcelona tactics, we can be Barcelona.

We’re being left in the EPL by teams who we’d never once have recognised as our peers and that is bad. I live in hope though that Martinez will come good and get this fairly good squad to realise its potential. At the moment he is taking the Micky out of the fans with his idiotic rhetoric at interviews and the embarrassing way that he’s allowing this team of ours to play.

What about Pearson, the ex-Leicester Manager? He is really responsible for Ranieri’s success especially given his proven incompetence.

Just to clarify for you the buyback this summer would cost Barca £6.4 million and we paid £4.25 million. So add on the wages he earned this season and that's why I said it was more like a loan deal.

The following summer, the cost goes up to £12 million. So tell me another deal that you have ever heard were the selling club has already agreed the price they will buy him back at?

Yes, there have been loads of deals were a club gets first option to buy a player back, but never at an agreed price over not one but two seasons. Now you can believe that this is a normal transfer; I don't.

You expect the odd decision to go against you but this is getting fucking ridiculous. We were proper robbed at Chelsea too and let's not forget Ashley Williams's knock-on. If the officials did their job we'd have won at Chelsea and probably be in a cup final.

I'm not talking about minor errors here we are talking about game changing, monumental blunders.

If even one of these decisions went against any of the other clubs the forums and phone-ins would be on fire, next time that referee is appointed in one of their games, he would be shitting himself.

We on the other hand make it easy for undecided referees, we accept it and instead of howling our derision... we call for our manager to be sacked.

We are not talking about the last couple of games and bad decisions going against us.

We are talking about a man whose flawed football philosophy has cost his sides to leak goals at an alarming rate with one of the lowest win percentages of managers who haven't been sacked.

Refereeing decisions cannot be blamed for his horrendous record in football management.

I've banged on about on about this guy's flaws since he got here, but to hold him accountable for the last three results is just plain stupid. If these staggeringly poor calls from the officials aren't made, we're several points better off and in a cup final.

We've put up two good performances against the last two Champions. They both needed really shocking decisions to get them out of jail.

Sack him? No fucking chance. Not now.

The current situation is a coming together of many events all with their own grey areas and frustrations and we are not only suffering as a club professionally, we are losing sight of what makes the game so great as a spectator sport, such as skill, teamwork, chance, luck, moments of individual or collective skills and so on. Also at the same time we are or attempting to draw conclusions from a series of sometimes unrelated chaotic events.

One thing that is absolutely clear is if you take the critical timing of key events that’s when it gets interesting.

Referees can only go so far without being seen as biased, but often they influence the game good or bad, intentionally or unintentionally, throughout the game, and the sport lives with this reality. What fascinates me is the patterns of repetitive bias that emerge over time and the social responses to it.

In the case of Everton, I am biased. However, even giving due allowance for that I am of the opinion Everton are treated more unfairly by the footballing controllers and marketing institutions (such as the BBC) than any other club. I am also of the opinion that the Redshites are treated "more fairly" than any other club. Suppose this viewpoint is correct, it is interesting that the two extreme examples come from the same City. Now that is a statistic that I find scary...

We jump all over Roberto and rightly so, because his team selection and management of substitutions is extremely poor. Some may even say biased, and his cavalier approach at the expense of game management is unprofessional and obvious to all. However we probably don’t keep a balanced view in the heat of the debate. When things have calmed down, and we look back on a season where we may have been so close to, or may have won a trophy, them is the time to judge. To replace Roberto now would be a very high risk strategy, but I'm sure behind the scenes that a good bollicking is overdue and may have happened already!

I have issued posts recently questioning why Everton don’t get penalties as other teams do (especially the Redshites... ) but for now, especially against Man City, the focus is on Roberto’s failings to date, which far outweigh his good points. People will only focus on the conspiracy theories when the level of behavior / mistakes of referees goes too far. Atkinson crossed the line last night but not quite as far as the ball that Sterling crossed for the goal. Everyone knew it and felt something was wrong and that is why Roberto is right to highlight the unfairness of Atkinson’s performance, and why ToffeeWebbers generally are not interested to listen at this time.

Putting that aside – what I do know is that the footballing public and journos should be asking the following 3 questions:

In the Chelsea (Terry offside) – why didn’t the linesman do his job?

In the Swansea game at the start of the passage of play that led to their second goal (Williams handball) – why didn’t the linesman do his job?

In the City game (Sterling out of play) – why didn’t the linesman do his job?

I don’t buy the proposition that they are incompetent. They were all easy calls – they had a clear line of sight to the ball in all instances. There is something not right here.

Point taken. Brevity. And apologies to your bladder.

From 2009-10 to now, his teams have conceded 396 league goals, factor in cups and its well in excess of 430 – that's in 6½ seasons. As the man says, he don't do clean sheets.

One more final comment from me re the previous comments; STOP blaming the officials for our results and lack of ability to hold onto a lead. Had we not celebrated for 81 seconds at The Bridge the whistle would have gone before Terry scored. City had stonewall pens not given in the semi-final at Goodison and EPL match at the Etihad.

From 2007 to 2013 we regularly challenged for either the Europa League or the top 4. He has taken us from that settling for mid table mediocrity. We have the best squad since the 80s, we have a better squad than clubs like Leicester, West Ham and Stoke, yet we are lagging behind them.

Our squad is just as good as Spurs and the RS yet we are miles away from them. We have 3 England internationals at the back, yet can’t keep a clean sheet to save our life. The only person who is to blame for our position is Martinez.

I must have missed that, Chris...

He mostly buys well and we could be fantastic if it all suddenly clicks into place – maybe with the purchase of a special midfielder who could prove to be the catalyst.

Like I’ve said, I’d like to give him another season and the chance to bring in a couple more of his own type of player. I would like to see us closing down space a bit more though, because at times we give quite ordinary teams the time and space to make them look like Barcelona.