Everton's Wembley hopes ended by City's second-half surge

Yes, he is hungry but he has a reputation not not want to catch anything in the air and opts to punch everything as you will see tonight.

You heard it here first!!!!

Doesn’t really seem to any real balance in midfield with only one natural winger in the side, looks like it’s there to contain more than anything. I assume Barkley is going to play more advanced just behind Lukaku.

Looks like it’s going to be backs to the wall stuff, but I’ve definitely got more confidence in us keeping them at bay. A goal for them should be interesting, we’d have to make a few changes.

Hmm looks like we have some kind of genius for a manager!

As fantastic as Barry has been, I hate watching him being forced to struggle through the final 10 mins of a match. Hopefully McCarthy is fit enough to inject some energy in the final 10 mins and potentially extra time.

Curious to see the set up. Will it be
Barry-Cleverley-Osman
Deulofeu-Lukaku-Barkley

Or Barry-Cleverley-Barkley
Deulofeu-Lukaku-Osman

Or even
Barry-Osman-Barkley
Deulofeu-Lukaku-Cleverley.

Robles, is vastly improved from the keeper who was punching everything that came close to him against Arsenal in the FA Cup game a couple of seasons back.

Your observation is nothing new, Stewart. Most people spotted that in Robles game. But I've not noticed the punching at crosses since he played in that game against West Ham in the Cup last season, where he played a blinder. Before going on to make several clean sheets before being unceremoniously dropped.

I think Robles playing in goal could give us the edge tonight.

I expect a counter attacking style, Barkley, Deulofeu and Lukaku running fact and directly at cities often vulnerable defence.

Barry to win e ball and Ossie, Clevely to spread the ball into the dangerous areas.

0-2 to Everton. Barkley first goal!

Just got to the pub and seen the team selection; I think I’ll order a couple of pints of what you two are on – what is itV draft LSD?

If we are in their faces from the start, and fighting for every ball, we’ll give them a run for their money, but if Martinez sticks to his principles, we’re up shit creek.

Get in there Ross!

The Incredible One has got to get his subs right.

45 mins or so of NO FEAR and total commitment and we are there.

Come on Everton...

Martinez is a genius after all!

Well he can now get his phenomenally unlucky team to go on a run for fourth place, must go, elephants nest on roof to shift.

So, unless we win the FA Cup we have no chance of European football next season and therefore no chance of keeping the likes of Rom, Stones etc. I expect a mass exodus.

That's 3 games in succession that has happened it is just tiresome and predictable.

In the last minutes of injury time Everton were caught offside twice and as for Martinez substitutions everyone was like-for-like. Hardly game changing in any way... and as for Osman – my Granny could walk quicker than he can run.

Now let’s hope the takeover is complete and the new owners send Bobby on his way along with his comedy coaching staff and let’s enjoy his interviews when he gets his next job in League One.

If we’d have got to Wembley, the RedShite would have smacked our arses anyway. They have the luck and refs on their side. It won’t mean anything to most ToffeeWeb readers but, that's it, my last comment – no more wasted time writing about this joke of a team.

The second goal was an obvious error from the official but we looked generally disorganised I'm afraid for that half and I don't think we can honestly say that we deserved to win. If that had gone to extra time, I could not have seen us prevailing.

John Stones is not a right back but the arse just fell out of all of them.

If we don’t score four then we won’t win. He has had two full seasons to sort this and we look further away than when we started.

He must go.

It’s been written thousands of times on here but our problems are all in defending, nothing changes so our problems will continue.

Ross went missing, Lukaku barely appeared, McCarthy well off the pace as was Cleverley. Funes Mori and Barry gave their usual performances and the rest well they were just ordinary. Points is what it’s all about now, get another five wins to ensure we can start over next season, preferably with a new man at the helm.

Absolutely was convinced we would go through so to say I’m gutted is an understatement. How the officials can get make a mistake like that is beyond me, and you know what if that had been any of the Sky 4 - 5 their players would have been all the referee. We hardly even protested, which makes me even angrier.

None were a result of bad defence though we can always highlight a misplaced pass at the start of a move and blame players for it.

The ref gave far more to them than us but ultimately we didn’t do enough going forward. They teased us with Navas, Bruyne, SIlva and Aguero trying to tempt us into tackles and we didn’t have much threat. Basic was a big miss not to mention a fully fit Coleman and Mirallas. I thought Kone did well and Funes Mori was our best player for me.

Not quite good enough on the night but, when the luck is against you like that, there is not much you can do.

Then the winning goal looked a tad offside admittedly only seen this once so can’t be certain but it would be just our luck. Now Sky and an ex-RS player are trying to defend the 2nd goal, unbelievable.

We concede too many goals but that is because of the Martinez way. The team needs more than just this one-dimensional type of play. Martinez is a cat with nine lives, I have no hope that we will get rid him now or even if we bombed out of the FA Cup.

We need a team of leaders not a team of weak-minded players that just fold when the opposition attacks. It happens game after game, even when we were two goals ahead the majority of fans knew we still weren’t favourites to win. And so it proved to be.

Very very disappointed.

And finally, PLEASE PLEASE if we can get £50M for Stones, don’t just take their hands off, go for the head as well

Totally disillusioned at the moment. Citeh are a decent team but we deserved more tonight. Sad times I’m afraid.

The way Stones and Lukaku played tonight, it’d be no loss if they left – take the money. Our biggest game of the season and Lukaku doesn’t bother turn up – he was poor on Sunday and even worse today.

It’s a shame their 2nd goal will detract from the fact that City were all over us like a rash. Martinez will have a ready-made excuse.

City players were nervous about Deulofeu’s pace, bringing on Kone invited more pressure. Funes Mori was very good, as was Barry.

Stones was terrible. He gets caught out of possession time and time again. Incredibly frustrating to watch.

Of course we were going to be under the cosh playing such an expensively-assembled team full of the best forwards in the country but the lads stuck at it well.

I thought the subs made sense. Delofeu and Osman can't play 90 minutes and we needed cover in midfield and a forward player the ball wouldn't bounce off when played out.

For the sake of our club,please go and go now.

Martinez has lost the players; the sooner he does the decent thing and resigns the better for everyone. We might even see a bit of interest from the players under a new regime.

We badly need to find a good right back having lost out on Byram. Stones has never played well in that position and I don’t understand why Coleman didn’t start in a semi-final. If he was unfit, why was he on the bench?

It is the first time ever in 30 years supporting Everton that I am not gutted losing a game because I never believed we would win it. It’s the same old stuff time and time again and when a manager is analysing luck then it’s time to go.

For all Bill Kenwright has done for this club, and he has done a lot of good, he definitely does not follow the club's motto and sadly some fans don’t either. Sure, finances have hindered him but, at a bare minimum, ambition has to be shown and changing the manager is no longer a question – it should be a demand.

Not one of our players appealed when Sterling ran the ball out... The team mirror the manager: too fucking nice!!!

And now on pavements rude and grey,
toffee sticky mucked and hard awash with torn litter there,
all scuffed with spit and bile and slime,
the meanest breath of ToffeeWeb
all sharpened knives to whet their disappointment
and blame thrice over the golden vision
of an Everton Martinez sublime,
so bitter a mirror they do provide.

Deulofeu is really the only match winner we have and Lukaku was held comfortably. One shot on target first half and nothing of note second.

Again defensively Stones out of position, nothing much on offer from Barry or Cleverley. Osman was a passenger with no legs.

Perhaps our biggest game of the season and we didn’t start with our strongest line-up... what exactly was the problem with Coleman?

Other than being bitterly disappointed and yes luck and officials went against us but, on the night, we were typically out played, gave away the ball, and again could not defend.

God help us with Carlisle. The Martinez reign ended here tonight as far as I am concerned. It was a truly insipid display when it should have been blood and guts.

Absolute filth. I’ve had enough of this game.

City can turn over the very best though weren't unbeatable tonight. Roberto surely cannot have long left to sort things out especially if the takeover rumours are true. The Yanks will be after a profit and won't like dropping £750 k or whatever it is for each place we slip in the league.

Let's face it, should we have slumped to win that would have been the final outcome. This is Everton after all, a club that has forgotten what winning and success are.

ps: Where was Rom? He still can’t control a ball, how can a simple pass bounce 15 yards off his foot? Lots of work needed with this self-obsessed bunch of players.

Dunc for a few weeks until we can get the right man, give him three months at the end of this season to assess the squad, decide who he wants to keep/sell etc. Full pre-season and sign players he wants and let's go again next season.

No point treading water until the end of the season just to sack him then.

We offered next to nowt as a goal threat before or after Ross scored but given the situation of the tie at that point I can understand the theory that engulfed the players. The problem is that we then had to rely on our defence.........and hope for a competent referee.

But we all know what Atkinson delivers to us, and he gifted them a goal as per usual.

Moving on, my faith in a defence that concedes so often against the likes of Bournemouth, Stoke, Norwich etc left me resigned to the fact that Aguero, Silva an’ all would do for us.

And so it came to pass that we lost..............again.

Cue the next pile of shite from Martinez in his press conference.

And any one who wants Moyes back must need professional help, what the fuck did he do in 11 years? Klopp’s been over there for 10 months and is in a final with a piss-poor team; we have the best squad we’ve had in 20 years and we’re going backwards. Martinez will take us down given time.

1) John Stones was awful – the first goal he was the wrong side of the attacker before the first shot was deflected and on the last goal he was ball watching whilst a forward some 6 inches shorter than him managed to get in front of him and head home. (We didn't close down for the cross, but hey we never press the ball so whats new?)

2) Taking off Gerri was poor as he was our biggest goal threat on the break. He went off and we wouldn't score if we played till Xmas once he had gone.

3) The second goal shouldn't be allowed, but we were struggling big time second half.

Just listening to the absolute dross spoken on Sky. Quote Andy Hinchcliffe on the second goal: "There is no way you can hold the officials responsible for that decision"!!!!

Tonight we are 3-1 up and are so open it is unbelievable.

As usual we could not put two halves in.

We are totally unfit both physically and mentally.

Now we prepare for the relegation scrap

Martinez has assembled a decent squad on top of what he inherited, and by Everton's standards it is one of the best in recent memory, but Stoke's squad is pretty good, as is West Ham's, and Crystal Palace's. This is no coincidence. The new TV money has raised the bar.

Martinez has glaring faults, but only one club can win the cup.

BK – pick a manager who has got some credentials and balls. I’m so pissed off its not true. I hope the Redshite lose 4-0.

And by the way, your specialist full-back is on the bench with a centre-back out of position there instead. Another fuck-up.

GET OUT, ROBERTO.

For all the reasons that have been done to death on here regarding the manager AND, as Eugene highlighted, the players' (lack of) concentration; Stone(d?)s in particular. A real defender would have been switched on enough to have marked Aguero for the third.

Just listening to Martinez on Sky: he’s gutted. Credit to the away fans tonight. We have to pick ourselves up and sort this mess out.

If he, Stones and Lukaku think they are worthy of Champions League teams next season then they are in for a shock. After almost two seasons of regression, we have to get rid of Martinez.

Before anybody starts about knee-jerk reactions, this is a comment based on last season and the train wreck that is this one... I repeat, he will take us down to the Championship. It’s just a case of when.

Can somebody at the club please make the only sensible decision...

Man City are a great attacking side and had us under the cosh for most of the second half. Even with the ridiculous second goal, adding Navas and De Bruyne added to the threat immeasurably.

I can understand why Martinez made the subs (so we would be more solid and hold the ball up), but after that we posed little or no threat. Plus points – Robles, Barkley, Funes Mori. Stones needs dropping and if there is anyone mad enough to pay £40M, sell.

I don’t want to single out Lukaku but I wasn’t impressed. In reality, City could have scored five and the bad decision meant we got one and they got two over the two legs.

As for RM, I think he has lost his Get out of Jail card. Goodison will be pretty toxic for the next game.

For all Barkley's undoubted talent, the lad is braindead. As for Lukaku, did he actually play tonight? Another one who's started to believe hes actually worth £60 mil. Do me a favour...

The truth is we never lost that game because of the ref. We lost because, let's face it, we just aren't good enough. End of.

I’m now pessimistically expecting the same in Cumbria this weekend; they’re out to get us. Someone tell me I ain’t paranoid.

We are lacking in the essential ingredients that enable a team to win games. At the root of it all is the manager.

I'm going to throw my season ticket on the pitch at the next home game. My concern is someone will throw it back.

We need a team that will die to win. At the moment we are well away from that.

If they keep improving like they are, we will need to score five before we win a game.

What the fuck was going on with the team selection??? No Coleman and Osman in... WTF. Three centre-halves on the pitch... WHY???

You can see it coming at Carlise at the weekend and then in the summer – a mass exodus of biblical proportions.

Kenwright, sick or not, is a Gobshite for allowing this to go on. Bill gave Moyes 8 years too long and now he will let Martinez drag us in to the abyss... I give up. The Kopites are just loving this.

We are in serious shit now, and if Martinez isn’t replaced, we could be relegated. I’m struggling to find any hope. Maybe this possible takeover will be some sort of divine intervention. God, do we need saved...

As for the takeover talk, it's a "someone told me they aren't lying" story; heard it all before. When it's on the news, confirmed by Jesus, Stalin and Princess Diana at a press conference, then I'll believe it.

The sooner he goes, the better, his current 29% win ratio (which is the same as he had at Wigan) will relegate my club and he’ll be off to spout shite somewhere else while we struggle to recover.

Never ever wanted him; I was shocked and appalled when Bill listened to that drivel from the senile Wigan chairman.

Disappointed, but not surprised – it was almost a foregone conclusion that we’d be pulled back in time, and even if we’d kept it to 2-1, they’d have got us in extra time or penalties.

We didn’t have the luck tonight, but City were by far the better team, and once again our weaknesses were exposed, with a number of our players going AWOL. I’m sure that several of our unsung, least remembered teams in the past would have put up more of a fight tonight – but I can’t even get enough passion to having a go at the lads – when we know it’s the clown on the touch line who has turned us into a Wigan-like sieve and makes leaking at least 3 goals most games the rule rather than the exception.

So.... can we now at least get something positive out of the night, by getting the taxi for Roberto – sticking an interim manager to get us the 11 points we might still need, and await the next season without our ’stars’, but hopefully with a few bob in the kitty, and some new owners at the helm who will look to a proud club and give us the vision and the manager to match our motto.

RM – please go now! if LVG can offer his resignation, why can’t you?

Disgraceful tonight by Atkinson, he was yards away. I'm not blaming the team tonight but would’ve played Coleman as Stones is mentally gone at the moment.

Not sure how we recover from this now.

Enough is enough. Cut your losses, Bill, this arsehole of a manager is taking us backwards... Take the money for Stones before his value plummets, as it will if he carries on with his suicide balls. Between him and Howard, they are setting us further and further back...

It takes a strong personality to make tough decisions. Do we have a Chairman strong enough? No we don't... We have suffered far to long. Things need to change!

I guess we’ve got to start all over again with another manager. We are a great club with great supporters we deserve better than this

Obama's after a job next season, he chats as much tripe as RM!!!

Sadly we’ll have to start again. Those that don’t want to be at Everton, let them go.

I agree, though, regarding the substitutes. If the plan was for Deulofeu to play 60 minutes, why not play him for the last part of the game when they are starting to tire, rather than from the start?

He is not a hold-up player, Martinez, you twat, and in a team that plays to his strength he could be lethal.

But at least we can concentrate on the league more now? We fucking need to...

As well as you getting Blue blood money more for your operation on your ankles or knees, see if you can sneak in a pair of specs as well.

Yeah, I know I’m bitter and gutted.

However, I have to admit enjoying our football recently – despite the defensive comedy... I guess I’m still dining out on getting rid of Moyes.

Calm down, it could be worse... Much worse.

In other words, one top class player is better for the team than the 3-4 average filler players his sale would finance.

In general, our ball retention is piss poor, and so many goals have be conceded this season by poor ball retention in our final third and our full backs are too far advanced, and we are attacked around the back of the full back positions or down the inside left or right channels. The centre backs are always outnumbered and Martinez doesn’t either be able to see it, or else he doesn’t care.

I’m thoroughly depressed about the whole situation. How does a piss poor outfit like Liverpool get to the final. They are utterly crap, yet there they are at Wembley again. Only Everton eh? Fucking Cinderella club if ever there was one.

Tonight hits me on so many levels, to the point I wanted to write.

Usually I couldn’t care less with the opinion of the masses, particularly the ToffeeWeb masses (which, like all social media sites, it’s important to remember, is not definitive of the greater whole. Everton supporters are defined by FAR more than those who bother to write on this site. Including me.

Overall? I’m deeply, painfully, gutted. Like you.

I probably direct my anger in a different direction however.

In short, because it’s ToffeWeb (amongst its other well-known names – none to do with the outstanding leadership of the site). I’ve decide that I need to make a passionate defense of Martinez.

I’ve thought about it very several months, hoping that this evening wouldn't come, but here you go.

Tick off delusional / blind / ignorant as you will. I don’t care -but I’ll listen (will you?).

I won’t bother to win over those who’ve made up their mind. It’s your opinion and I respect that. I just differ.

And here’s mine.

I was born in 84. I’ve seen us win only ONE trophy (when I was 10), even as I enter my thirties.

Since I became conscious enough to follow the blues, Ive seen Walker, Kendall, Royle, Smith, Moyes, Martinez. And I’m a huge fan of what Moyes did for us in stablising us. That was incredible.

But here it goes. Martinez, as a manager, has given me hope. I believe he’s a visionary, and like all visionaries flawed. And not able to deliver it all immediately.

I believe(d), for the first time in years, we could win a trophy (when did you feel that under Moyes?), even if I felt supremely nervous about our ability to get there.

The defence needs so much work. I see that as such a major flaw. And yet I see that as something that’ll come in time.

So, my fear: We’re going to spend the next few months getting rid of the only visionary manager we’ve had since Kendall.

And we’ll start again. Because nobody has time for anything any more. No time for learning, no time for building. No time to learn from mistakes. Immediately I expect the response, ’He’s had enough time’; we’re close to relegation than to Champions League. I don’t deny that. And yet I stop, and consider the past, the present, and the future.

A change is always better isn’t it? Remove, and start again. Reboot, re-energise. It’s all so straightforward. But with who? Have any of you ever managed people? Forgive the rant right now, but have any of you attempted to build a culture, a dynasty (those that are lauded when we look back, but given no time in the here and now).

My feeling? The onus is on the anti-Martinez crowd to make the case – who, why, and what do you think would change?

I’ll listen intently, waiting to be persuaded. And I’m totally ready to ditch Martinez for the right choice (as we all should be).

But right now, who? And why? Question: does anyone feel we’re throwing out the baby with the bath water with if we remove Martinez?

Cue vitriol. I’ll read those of you who aren’t abusive.

Andy

Can anyone point to a quote where he has even mentioned the team’s appalling defensive record? No, neither can I. This issue is the single one that repeatedly undermines the potential of this team, and if Martinez and his coaching team cannot solve it, they should go.

And by the way, for those slaughtering Lukaku, it seems absolutely clear to me he has been carrying an injury since the Man City league game and Martinez is playing him part-fit because he has no other credible option. Plus he sold Naismith without a replacement.

So give him a break. Lukaku that is, not Martinez, who is a clown of the first order and hopefully has now done enough to get his marching orders.

I doubt I will ever see another successful Everton team in my lifetime unless there’s some sort of Manchester City-esque takeover and I can’t see that happening either. Goodison needs a fucking exorcism!!

I said it before the game, Stones, is not a fullback, why did he start ahead of Coleman, who was fit to come on Saturday, and again tonight.

He’s gone back to isolating Lukaku up front on his own, and against Swansea, and City, totally ineffective.

He sells Naismith, and no-one lined up to replace him.

P45 NOW.

We should have started with Coleman at RB. The really crazy thing is that Jags and Funes Mori played very well. We keep getting done out wide and let’s be honest, giving Osman the start on the left was more of a token 'thank you' selection.

And yes , I know that , once again, we were unlucky. But luck or not. We are not in the final. You only get deflected goals, if you try a few shots. Our forwards and midfielders want to try that, more often. You never know, they might get a favourable deflection. And yes I am sick of the shite refereeing that we are now witnessing. I don’t know. Maybe some sort of formal complaint from Everton might be needed. But would anybody listen? I said after the Chelsea game that a cup could be won or lost, on a poor refereeing decision. Well tonight a place in a Cup Final was decided by a poor decision. Or at least the chance of extra time was denied to Everton. I have been saying for years that Everton are an unlucky team. Well it seems like that to me. Remember the Bryan Hamilton goal????

Oh well. Back to the drawing board. No League Cup final.(I really thought that this was our year). But yet again we cannot defend a lead. Sitting 12th in the league. And we cannot buy a win. As said numerous times on TW, and on other sites......why was Naismith allowed to go?? He could have been just the player to have nicked a goal on Saturday past, and tonight. But Everton(and some supporters ) preferred the transfer fee. And We are stuck with Martinez. We (for now) are also stuck with Howard. Lukaku is off the boil(again). Not blaming Lukaku for anything. Just highlighting that when he needs a rest.......we have no cover. Criminal that Martinez allows that to happen. And a tricky little FA cup tie coming up at the weekend. Carlisle must be licking their lips. They must be all out , practising their set pieces. They must be rubbing their hands at the chance of having a go, at flaky old one dimensional Everton. Can we turn this season around? Mid table safety is now all that I can hope for. Does that ring a bell? Yes ,of course it does, , our season was as good as over , in similar fashion last season..Can we win the FA cup? Or are our players now thinking of the summer? As soon as we meet a team higher than ourselves in the cup......we are out.

Getting tiresome now, supporting this Everton team. And I have never felt like that before. But this is bloody draining. Martinez has sure put us through the ringer.(the past couple of seasons) And it sure isn’t entertaining. Its bloody torture. But what can you do. What can you do. Me and all my fellow Evertonians out there, will just plod on Not really much more we can do. Keep hoping that something will change.

Just one more rallying call from me. Let’s try and get past Carlisle and maybe get another Cup run going. And let’s try and win a few League matches. At least maintain our Premier League place for next season. And if we are going to have new owners....let’s hope they have the good sense to bring in a top manager. And dump Martinez. Who I only ever rated as a lucky manager. But who’s luck has now run out. His nine lives have now expired. Goodnight.

If, however, we bought decent players with a winning mentality, then I would sell him.

We all know big changes have to be made.

Much of football is about belief and we were never blessed with huge amounts of it even during the good times. We can only hope that any new owners decide that they want a winning team, not a glorified boys club with a heart of gold. The charity work is admirable but the winning of football matches is paramount; if you don’t win games, you don’t win trophies.

It looks as though Martinez will continue to say he will learn from the last last game right up until he is sacked. Today was not a paricularly bad performance but like most things it has to be seen in context.

So we either be patient with Martinez, while he continues (as if a brand new Premier League Manager) to learn from each previous catalogue of errors, or we demand that the club listens to the supporters and plans for the future without him.

Experience has taught me that the probable path for the Everton hierarchy is to keep ignoring the clamour from supporters for as long as you can.

As supporters there’s probably not a lot we can do at the moment except wait and hope – for what I’m not exactly sure but we can only hope it doesn’t, longer term, include Martinez.

I hope the lad is rested against Carlisle or he might not recover from this.

Yes, we’re all disappointed and fed up, but the reality is we are not good enough, just look at the two benches tonight. Maybe we expect too much from an average squad.

I said on here at the start of the season that we would finish between 10th and 15th, I’ve seen nothing yet to change my mind, and the FA Cup... well, quarter-final at best, I would think. We wouldn’t get past the likes of Spurs, Arsenal, Man City etc.

To all the pissed off Blues like myself – time for a reality check.

Perhaps Martinez has the same effect on defenders that Moyes had on centre forwards, ie, ruins their game rather than improving them.

I know he has critics, but Lukaku is the one we will miss when he goes as we have no other regular goalscorers and three or four sub standard replacements would be detrimental.

For what it's worth, I would get Martin O'Neill in after the Euros. I don't want an Eddie Howe type of up-and-coming manager, we've done that twice now and gone nowhere.

Thank Christ for Jags and Funes Mori who put their bodies in the way to make blocks.

We were robbed again and that was crucial thing. It’s always important to analyse yourself but this amount of bad decisions in two weeks is just to much.
Incredible line of goals in last 3 games:
1 - Bizarre mix-up between Jagielka and Howard
2 - Huge deflection
3 - Offside goal plus after time ran out
4 - Bizarre penalty
5 - Huge deflection
6 - Huge deflection
7 - Ball out of play
8 - Questionable for offside

I really don’t remember seeing anything similar.

To add to this run of totally awful goals, it is also symptomatic that we lost two probably most in-form players at the same time, just before a vital game.

Lose there and Roberto is surely a goner?

There could and should have been more effort, especially in the second half, or is fitness really and truly the main reason we don’t seem able to put 90 minutes together in one game?

Our forwards let us down tonight. Osman, for the hour he as on and Barry were excellent but we always needed to score two goals. The opportunities were there but we wasted the ball in the final third.

Man City could not even fill their ground for this game with two huge sections of their top tier completely empty.

As too was there 3rd goal, leaving Stones aside who was again culpable, but if you look after he clears the corner, 4 of our players just sprint forward with no thought of defending. We simply do not function as a unit defensively.

The match officials are ridiculous and I actually think are bent. Atkinson saying Stones took too long for a throw in and giving it to City and then they continuously waste time. Also non-existent foul given when Rom should have scored at the end of first half. Loads of awful decisions throughout.

Or a Gary Neville type; we need a real winner in charge – not someone content with style over results.

This was Martinez’s get out of jail card and if we continue to slide down the league and get a beating at Anfield on 28 February, even our generous board will have to consider his future. I hope Martinez changes something and turns it around, maybe higher pressing, maybe playing our defensive midfielders in central midfield to dominate games or maybe just plays a 4-4-2. Either way, it's punishment going to Goodison at the moment. Something needs to change.

A team of under performers. Yes, luck has been against us for the last few games with bad deflections and poor refereeing decisions but there is no fight in the team and some of them look like they cannot be bothered. What other incentive than a Derby final is required to get the team up and playing or at least defending properly? Martinez has had a large transfer budget, such a budget predecessors could only dream of. What is going on?

Are Lukaku and Baines fit? Where was Hibbert or Browning tonight at right back? It comes to something when our best player on average each week is Barry who is way beyond his best. Why was Naismith sold? I would pick him above Kone any day. We needed his effort tonight.

Terrible substitutions. Our biggest threat going forward was taken off with the scores level on the night and almost straightaway City score. Who do we then need to create something? - only the player just taken off. He also brings on McCarthy at a key stage when he has not played for some time. There is an obvious lack of game management by Martinez. We have seen this many times most notably at Kiev last year when a 0-0 would have done and more recently at Bournemouth and Chelsea and against Stoke. Easily giving away winning positions. Criminal. Moyes had his limits but how many 1-0s did we witness, normally when the chips were down eg v Blackburn when Turner was sent off in the first minute. I would gladly accept a few 1-0s now.

It takes me a lot to be down on the team including the manager having lived through many many poor years with this being a semi final and all. BUT enough is enough. Martinez has to go. I had hoped he would have resigned last summer after a poor season. Never thought I would say it but get Moyes back to work with a set up and players he is familiar with and then review in the summer. Mourinho is available...

So so poor tonight.

Klopp chooses the RS because they can spend £60-100M every season and will probably pay him £8-10M a year, Everton will pay £3M a year and scrape together £10-15M a season for transfers.

The fact is we will never attract top managers who can make that difference because we are a club that offers very little.

IT’S THE HOPE THAT KILLS YOU!

I’ll sort out the T-shirts design tomorrow....

a) Graeme Jones; or

b) Steve Round

Tough one but I’ll get the ball rolling with Graeme Jones.

Carlisle is an opportunity to get nearer to Wembley in the FA Cup and the Newcastle game is a major opportunity to put the spectre of relegation almost to bed for this season. Evertonians have seen far worse teams than the current one and have managed to will them on to unlikely victories. We are at the moment in danger of having the opposite effect on our current squad and if we as supporters don’t show that famous Merseyside defiance when things are going awry, we will reap the rewards of failure and relegation will arrive quickly.

Yes, the manager isn’t good enough; yes, there are major psychological flaws in some if not most of our player, but at the end of the day Everton and Evertonians will be here longer than any of those people and it is our club for good or bad and as such we should put aside any dislikes of current personnel until we are mathematically safe in the Premier League. Five or six wins will do the trick perhaps less, but the next league victory will be the most important one and the sooner it arrives the better.

Same shit, different day... surely he’s gone on the morning (Bob).

If our squad/players are as good as we all seem to think and therefore underachieving then we need a manager who can firstly organise them into a system of playing and then motivate them to play to that system.

We seem to be a collection of individuals with no set roles or delegated responsibilities given by the manager.

Look at our league form. Expect Howard in goal next game. Nil; satis nisi optimum. I really do hate this halfwit of a manager. The only plus side is he took a below form Stones off... his job depending on it... and even then her came up short.

Alas, it wasn’t to be with yet again some alarming defending and the question arises what is RM doing, if anything to get this team to close ranks when not in possession?

Before the tying goal even, you could see how wide open they were, simply because they cannot tighten up once they lose possession. Baines is no longer the force he was and Stones is not a good enough right back.

They really didn’t make it difficult for City at any stage to carve them up and whilst one can point to some missed opportunities they didn’t deserve to advance. Cleverley is not good enough and Osman is finished at this level. Barry plays a steady game but one also has to question his legs for 90 minutes at his age in that position.

Even with some injured players returning I doubt the defensive strategy Everton have will stop the rot. It needs a complete overhaul and RM is devoid of ideas so why is he still around?

Well done, Shatkinson, you’ve just invented a new rule there, you fucking bent tosser!!!

I remember the last League Cup semi we played and went out with a whimper; this time, at least we gave it a go.

It was harder having any confidence in the Kendall Mk 3 teams and Walter Smith’s journeymen teams. I can’t argue that there is little evidence on show to justify having confidence in this current crop either... but somehow we have to push them over the line, the quicker the better, and then hope that those in charge take note of our issues and address them for next season – preferably in the Premier League.

Of course we can’t make the players better players or the manager a better strategist but we have it within our power to get behind the team even for a few short months. Perhaps a change of manager has to come first for that to happen.

Oh I haven’t give up on them and my lungs will be screaming out for them next week versus Newcastle. I did a piece on another thread this morning urging the fans to get behind the team, regardless of the how we feel at the way they are performing right now. Staying up is the most important thing at the moment, and I do feel that we are approaching a relegation battle.

Maybe, but it seems a bit of a lottery out there at the moment with managers. How did Southampton pluck Pochetino out of thin air? That is the kind of magic trick we need to do.

It’d be pretty mad if he just made the rule up but you’d never know.

Fast counter-attacking football definitely bore fruit tonight with a goal from Barkley and what should have been a goal from Deulofeu from fast counters. Kone just killed the game off for us and it was not his fault.

I think Goodison will actually be loudly supportive next week against Newcastle and I expect us to win.

We did look badly short of options in that second half tonight and I am alarmed that we are not showing any signs of buying before the end of the month.

Let's hope we'll be pleasantly surprised on transfers and on the takeover. Any change of manager seems much further away, though prayers are being offered.

Gerry was fading, so bring him off, but isn't Lennon the perfect replacement under the circumstances? It opened the pitch out for City, and gave an inexperienced centre back, playing out of position no protection.

City, still had to score at this stage, and as much as I like to attack, this decision showed how much the youth development coach, is really out of his depth.

"My philosophy and my way of working is not to keep clean sheets, my philosophy is to win games," he said. "It's a very general assessment to say we don't defend well. If you look at our defensive record away from home this season and our record at home, it's completely the opposite. That doesn't mean we play in a different manner away from home – we've got the same personnel, the same way of playing – so there are aspects that are affecting the manner of goals we are conceding."

And true to his word, we’d be. conceded 43 goal in all competitions this season, and we’re only in January. Please God get shut of this delusional nut job before he totally ruins the club.

And Dave(#144) the t-shirt should read its spe qui interficit vos,

And true to his word we’ve

"As a manager, I want to defend but would I base the performance on wanting to keep a clean sheet? No. I base the performance on getting on the ball, having a big role, dictating and having a positive approach and scoring goals. Our team is top in the league for goals scored from open play."

Andy Connor, an admirable defence of the coach which I respect. However, I disagree. I do not see Martinez as a visionary; I see him as a self serving ninny who is utterly out of his depth and would have a man like Harry Catterick turning in his grave. In his desperation to win another trophy for himself he has, as he did with the Europa League, sacrificed our Premier League position for a futile attempt at a cup.

I thought our performance tonight was insipid, gutless and totally devoid of passion or inspiration. In fact a reflection of our coach.

We have, in my view the worst coach in our history and he will relegate us. He has nothing to offer our club and if he has not the dignity to resign he must be sacked. Tonight on the touchline he looked clueless, bewildered and utterly inept. Shameful.

If that link works, it seems to say that delaying the taking of a throw-in should result in a caution.

The man is clearly off his trolley.

Gerry Deulofeu needs to start working on his fitness, it's criminal he can't last more than 45 minutes, great skills but hits a ball like a pansy wearing slippers.

Our attack has dried up, the Chelsea game aside.

Oh and good to see the same old aerial deficiencies were back for all to see tonight, Jagielka getting beat in the air by Silva really???

Piss poor again from Martinez, who's quickly making Moyes look like Pepe Guardiola.

He'll blame bad luck blah blah blah heard it all before, bad luck why we've won just 6 games all season and lessons learned from last year's two legged Europa tie in Kiev?? Yeah yeah.

Just finish this disaster of a season now and start from scratch with a new manager and new players that actually are fit, don't turn their backs on every shot and maybe just the odd few who can win a header.

The rest of the season, as long as we stay up I could not care less now.

In protest of that and the ball over the goal-line decision, Everton should a) Not bother entering the competition next season; or b) Play the Under-21s in it – after all it’s not as if we are ever going to win it is it?

Unless we all boycott the next home game and all cancel our Sky subscription, nothing will change.

We have all been brought up on mediocrity sandwiched in between the occasional success. We’d have blown the final anyway.

In ten years time, I will be still sat in the Park End and this lot will all be gone. Sky got the final they wanted.

If you all feel that pissed off to come on here and moan then do the only decent thing left. Boycott the next game, cancel your Sky subscription and let football get back to how it should be.

Oh... different John Moore... oh fuck, 4-3 to Newcastle then.

Those solid foundations built on a strong home record, playing to players strengths and being canny in the transfer market have been completely dismantled within three years of Martinez’s reign.

It just proves his first season as a fluke, you are now seeing the real Martinez team, akin with Wigan, a club that will find fighting the bottom six the norm.

Still, that cannot mask the complete sham that is RM. He's done. I don't want to hear anything about the FA Cup because I don't want anyone to get us relegated for a cup.

But I fucking hate Atkinson, and genuinely feel he hates us even more. Not tonight mate, but I would love to see Everton’s win percentage when this cheating bastard as ever refereed us. Or maybe I’m just too paranoid.

Jim, does that mean you'll comment less on ToffeeWeb then?

Kone was brought on to hold the ball up and allow us to gain possession which he did, and Jimmy Mac to bolster the midfield, right choices.

When the hex has got you, and the authorities cant take a multi million pound industry seriously enough to facilitate correct outcomes via new available technology, then it makes you wonder why bother paying good money and going through all that stress just to be cheated.

I honestly can't see anything good at all about this season, a wasted season littered with mistakes and hard luck stories.

Probably the only good thing we can do is win at Anfield and end another embarrassing record there but we'll no doubt cock that up too!

Good luck with it!

As soon as I heard it was him in charge, I knew we would have an uphill struggle, it happens too often to be coincidence and how many games have Everton triumphed in, due to an officials error of judgement?

I can’t wait for the City manager to be up in arms when the other lot get all the decisions from their very own Mr Clattenberg in the final.

Lukaku has been showing signs of tiredness in the last three or four games (or is he just tired of playing for a team that can’t defend and wastes the effort he puts in to score?). And who do we have who could come in for a couple of games to give him a rest? Steven Naismith?

Oh no, Martinez in his wisdom sold him to Norwich, where he scored a goal and earned a penalty in his first game, without lining up a replacement first. Brilliant management that, Roberto. Kone is totally incapable of leading the attack and that is about all we have unless you want to count the injured Kevin Mirallas.

Tonight, again, Martinez’s substitutions made no sense. Deulofeu was possibly our only hope of getting in a telling cross, knackered or not. Kone produced nothing. OK, Osman was tired and needed replacing but surely Lennon would have been a better option and Coleman for Stones? Why the hell wasn’t our right back on from the start? Stones has been poor in the last few games, mistakes becoming the norm in his games and needs dropping to the subs bench until he stops believing he’s already a legend in his own backyard.

The best defender we have at present is Funes Mori, who grows in stature with every game he plays.I saw one instance tonight when he made up about thirty yards across the area to make a brilliant last ditch tackle in the right back position where Stones should have been, but had gone walkabout.

In fact, Funes Mori and Deulofeu looked like the only two who were really fired up and really wanted to get to the final. Deulofeu’s face showed what he thought when he was pulled off. Martinez really screwed up again tonight, bad decisions aside and it really is time we said goodbye to this one trick pony, whose trick has ling been sussed out and nullified by every manager in the bloody Premier League.

I can even see us making it hard for ourselves against Carlisle. Giant Killing anyone? Go now, Roberto before you totally destroy the last shreds of credibility that clung to our once great club.

No, we reach a semi-final when every other team also decides to get serious. Not really making a serious point....just a little observation. Maybe we are unlucky. Or is Kenwright unlucky? Or do you reap what you sow? Just clutching at straws folks, but we could sure do with our share of luck now. Anytime soon will do for me.A dubious penalty..a deflection of Kones backside....an OG. Anything. That’s how much I want our next win(especially in the league).

Fifty years since Mike Trebilcock scored two in the 1966 FA Cup final. Can we win this years cup? Surely our players cannot now be tired. Surely they have enough about them to have a go? Or am I still only clutching at straws? Is mid table mediocrity now all that we can hope for. Changes have to be made. Or is this the lecacy that BK is going to leave us all. A clown of a manager.....whose big project has now turned into a complete joke.

I’m with you. I concur. But...

It is getting too much to bear.

There’s deflected goals. There’s Terry offside. There’s goals awarded that were clearly out of play. There’s so much bad luck it’s tragically comical.

I too, believe Roberto is a visionary. And as you rightly point out, visionaries – hell ALL human beings – are flawed.

I have to ask why John Stones started at RB. The same man directly culpable for the third goal.

I have to ask, even though unlike some I was all for the Kone substitution, why did he come on for Delo and NOT Osman!

There’s questions to be asked. Is the manager at fault as much as you’d be lead to believe on this site? No. But he is making some damn dubious in-game decisions.

What KILLS ME reflecting on this is the attitude. The spirit and fight is just gone in some players. When that ball went out over the line and the little jack-ass greedy Sterling pulled it back, there was not A SINGLE PLAYER that I saw – from the comfy confines of my barstool in the pub in the good ol’ USA – who contested the non-call. Why aren’t our men going BALLISTIC at the grievance???

Something is up when we are aggrieved multiple times and we look like good little lap dogs just accepting it.

We need some fire, piss, vinegar, and vitriol infused into our desire to win.

I’ll stick with the vision, but changes HAVE to be made in-game, and in our attitude.

I don’t believe, as his detractors claim, that he is big-headed and needs benching when others like Lukaku and Barkley, amongst others tonight, let down the loyal Blues who travel thousands of miles and spend hundreds of pounds, on their travels to be disappointed time and again.

I bet Stones can’t wait to get away to a coach who will actually improve his game, rather than one who just talks head-in-the-clouds garbage all the time.

I’m getting as frustrated as the next man, but I still don’t believe that changing managers is the right step at the moment, and I’m still prepared to give RM time. But.... and here’s the but, it’s our "golden generation" who may not have the patience of some of our fanbase.

This summer is going to be fascinating – will Lukaku, Stones, Barkley and Deulofeu in particular still believe in the RM project? If not, and if two or three of the names above move on, are we back to square one in terms of building a team? Could we do a Southampton and finish in a Euro spot even after selling our best players? Or, will the pessimists be proven correct?

All due respect, I’m done arguing it. I still see a future with this man.

I will give you this - he’s making some fucking stupid decisions of late. And it’s got me damn pissed.

We’ve argued this forever. If I’m in the minority fine. I don’t care. I concur with Andy Connor @107.

But as I’ve been told 1,000 times, I surely can’t know shit from watching on telly in the USA, so what’s the difference?

Off to punch my fucking dog.

I would just love to have 5 minutes with him to ask him what practical action has he taken in training to eradicate defensive errors. I wonder if he could tell me?

I too, think he is close to something really good, but he is never going to get there by outscoring the opposition when you are regularly conceding three – ’My way of working is not to keep clean sheets’. If he does achieve success this way, he will be the first. You have to know the problem before you can solve it.

It's disappointing, but the result is we couldn't quite live with a better team. Most of the defending was fairly well organised but we couldn't break out at times and that will make lucky deflections more likely, simply by them having more shots.

I thought we did quite well at times at slowing the game down, like we didn't at Chelsea, with innocuous fouls in the middle of the pitch. We need to see more of that at the right times in games.

This isn't particularly a game to hang Martinez with, but we'd better not make a meal of Carlisle.

Stones seems to be developing a bit of a bad attitude. I’ve a bad feeling this could be another major blow for a team already low on confidence and things are going to get even worse before they get better.

Nine points should see us safe, I think we will get there but it will be a grind. Focus should be on safety and the FA Cup should not distract us from this, damned shame Martinez won’t see it this way, the psychotic mind is irrational and illogical.

But we need to remember as Craig (203) alluded to, selling best players and still winning, this game we love is still a business. Do you see Everton being successful if we don't nip the problem in the bud? As much as we're afraid of losing our best players, who wants to play for us if we're losing? Who wants to buy our players? What does that mean for us?

As for Andy's (107) comment, I actually agree with him, and I don't mind giving more time, but I need to see progress! After 23 league games this season (have we not learnt anything from last season?) and yet we're going from OK into relegation form.

Apparently Spalletti is back at Roma so I can't throw his name around anymore. I would love to see what Roberto Di Matteo can do for us. Heck, if we're going for a short term solution (steadying the boat) even LVG looks better than this.

Also Jamie, don't punch your dog. I don't have pets but I'm against cruelty.

Gary Rowett in. He did a good job with Burton and turned Birmingham around. Young English manager with loads of potential.

Well apart from not having it on to watch or record and not wanting to struggle with dodgy stop start feeds. The main reason was because I knew deep down we would find away to fuck it up. Over the years we always do and it seems worse under this Boss for some reason.

I’ve looked at highlights, seems we were 1-3 up with 70 mins to play. Oh and there was a deflection, the ball was over the line and one of the smallest guys on the pitch scores a header...see what I mean about finding ways to fuck it up.

Somebody else reminded me of this, cast your minds back to the end of September 2013 we battered a poorish Newcastle 3-0 in the first half, then hung on for a 3-2 win in the 2nd half...nothing much has changed, no lessons learned, no improvement - in fact we seem to have got worse.

Then we have all the stats; 6 in 18 or is it 19 now etc. etc. Martinez averages 60 goals against over 6 or 7 seasons. etc. etc. The total bullshit at Pressers. His oft times repeated variation on a theme ’No change and / or I don’t do defending’.

As for the FA Cup, well the few time we have played Carlisle we don’t seem to do well and some will be rested no doubt, tight ground away 4th round, not the worst bet for an upset.

We’ve gone backward and show no sign of reversing it. Based on this some are starting to ponder that compared to this train wreck, Moyes might be the 2nd coming of Catterick and Kendall Mk I rolled into one...*shudders.

So, fast forward 29 months and we again have a poorish Newcastle at home in the League...not much changes but it remains the same.

The options;

1) Stick; hope it comes good...accompanied by severe word in ear / kick up arse.

2) Get rid at the end of the season, but start making a list of potential candidates.

3)Get rid now and appoint temp. Internal

4) Get rid now and appoint temp external...you know, the ’M’ word or even worse the FSW.

5) Hope the take over is Kosher.

That's a fair comment Dennis.

Gary Rowett it. Did a good job with Burton and turned Birmingham around. Young English manager.

To be fair to Martinez he said something like "My way of working is not to keep sheets, but to focus on winning games" But I hear what your saying, Peter.

If we were challenging for the top 4 again like the first season or playing like the only other team who was successful with such a 'devil may care' playing style - Kevin Keegan's Newcastle United. I'm sure even naysayers like Mr Hind and Walling would have acquiesced and become Martinez fans by now. It's not happened though. We've not moved on and seem to be stagnating at the lower end of the mid table.

I always counted myself in the Pro-Roberto camp insofar as I always felt we would come good over the Xmas period when we had a run of easier fixtures (at least on paper) and we would now be around the top 6. A lot of people were calling for him to go last season. I don't think managers should be changed so readily, especially when the manager had got the team to achieve their highest Premier League points tally.

But I think we need a change now. And Martinez should move on. I think he can leave the job with his head held high. He'd be leaving us with a better team than the ageing one he inherited. The problem is that we're not as good as the sum of parts and the manager has to take some responsibility for that, and the reason why it's probably a good time to part company.

We've had 2 managers who are the antithesis of one another. How about we get a manager in who's less conservative than David Moyes and a bit more defensive minded than Martinez. In other words a manager who is adaptable and can change their tactics and be the embodiment of both. Easier said than done. But I see great things in Eddie Howe and think Bournemouth play good football but also have a dogs of war mentality when needed. I think Howe could get a lot out the players in our current squad. I think the Everton job would have been too big for him last season but now he's got premier league experience he could walk into the job and command the respect of the players.

We've got 4 young potential world class players. What we're crying out for is the leaders and winners so we're not the piss weak team we're seeing out there. We can't close down games and we wouldn't have surrendered a 3-1 lead. Something's got to give. If a takeover is announced in the coming days lets hope John Jay Moores is decisive and we don't have to endure this purgatory for much longer.

My only fear is that we could get a left field appointment that sometimes happens with foreign owners. Someone mentioned Bruce Arena. Yes, that would be the kind of left field appointment I could imagine from American owners if we get the wrong kind. Hopefully the appointment would be someone like Jurgen Klinsmann if we have to go for an American based coach.

It's time for change..on and off the field.

How much more time do you think he should be given? You talk about you would like to see progress when he has not demonstrated that there is a problem in his tactics from the middle of last season.

In his tenure in the Premier League his teams on average have been in the bottom 5 for the poorest defense. The back line he inherited was at one time one of the strongest in the league, and now they are playing with no confidence. He states that the younger players will learn from these setbacks, what players?

All the players we have got have been playing professional football since they were 12-14 years old, did they not learn anything? He has been given the job that a number of managers would be ecstatic to have and he is going backwards.

He is stating time after time that he will not change as he believes his teams are always capable of scoring more goals than the opposition, and unfortunately this is not happening. We are most probably going to loose players at the end of the season that will put us in a position that we may have to rebuild.

So how long do you think we should give him to rebuild?

There were 5 minutes of injury time. De Bruyne was on the deck at '89. The game resumed at 92' something. That's 92 plus 5 plus 2 or 3 –- ie, 99 or 100.

Atkinson blew up in minute 97. He had total control over that.

City then were down to 10 and in effect 9 as Navaz was not moving.

We had 2 minutes at least taken from us by Atkinson. Nothing might have happened; something might have.

But 2 or 3 minutes against 9 men.

But last night demonstrated clearly why:

1. The lack of basic skills, particularly just being able to run into space and recieving or making a pass. This ensured that we never gave ourselves any breathing space.

2. Failing to pick up strikers. The amoiunt of room given for the second and third goals beggared belief, but this was true for the whole game.

3. That winning mentaility which means you leave it all on the field, closing down, contesting every decision and ball, being on it from the first whistle to the last. This did not feel like a cup semi-final display from Everton.

4. A baffling lack of fitness from some players. Why does Del have to come off after 60 minutes? Why is our (lone) striker 15 yards short of most crosses? Why is our most ubiquitous player an ageing Barry?

5. Lack of leadership. Who is willing the team on. Where are our nasty players - our Gravesens and psychos, our Mountfields, even our Lyons, our Peter Reids instilling that dogs of war mentality.

6. The substitutions. What could Kone possibly have brought to that game? How can you swap a defender for a defender when you simply have to score? Why throw on your last substitute at the precise moment when Barkley is in need of treatment?

7. The game plan. I did not see one. The players do not seem to be aware of one or, if there is one, are insufficiently drilled to execute it.

Man City are a plastic bauble of a club to whom it is no disgrace to lose. But our record against the top end clubs speaks for itself. There is a vast and apparently widening gulf between us and then, we are not even in the chasing pack while TV money means that we are getting overtaken even by the next group after that, the West Hams, Stokes and Crystal Palaces.

The buck has to stop with the manager. He promised Champions League football. He will not deliver it, nothing like. If the Board has any credibility, it is time to call it quits.

Recently seen Dad’s Army being advertised as showing in February but come to Goodison and we have them playing regular, what with Osman, Howard, Pienaar, Kone all getting on the bench. What chance do the youth have to come on in games like this and make a name for themselves???

Sigh, still got top ten and the FA Cup to play for...

Deflected goal. Bad luck. Disallowable goal. Bad officiating. Winner. Well, winner.

Was I surprised by any of them? No. At 3-1 up, like any normal person I thought 'we could be in here......' but we are a shambles at the back and this is not going to change. Baines, by the way, is a busted flush.

Successful football is based on a very simple two sided formula. Score goals. Don't concede goals. This is as basic as it gets. If you're on £40k a week, lets say, this equation should be a bit of a bedrock in your thinking, pretty standard stuff I would have thought.

We're pretty good at the former.

We are fucking shit at the latter,and what's worse is the manager doesn't give a fucking shit about it!

At 3-1 up, despite my burst of optimism borne out of having watched football for 40 years thinking we'd just given ourselves a great chance, I instead was more interested in seeing how we would contrive to fuck it up.

Our lack of care at the back is frankly woeful. Our mangers dismissal of it is worse. We got to the semi-final of this competition via a stirng of gilt edged draws against lower league opposition. When asked the question from a quality side, when 3-1 up, we had no answer. We rolled over. We gave in because we knew it was just a matter of time.

You shouldn't be in charge of a pub team if you aren't interested in clean sheets. To be in charge of one of the oldest, most successful and richest (8th in the country/18th in the world?) clubs on the planet is beyond comprehension.

Forget the players he's brought in. Forget the style going forward. You cannot win a fight with one arm tied behind your back. Persist and we, ultimately, are doomed to failure.

It looks like a takeover is building a head of steam. New owners will know their numbers and once they've done the maths Bobby will be gone. Shame, but not as shameful as our defending.

I said before the game that we needed two and we could probably peg them back to 3 but as it was, the score last night could easily have been 4-2 to City (I have not counted their second goal – with that it could have been 5). We did not really get close to scoring apart from Ross who did and Del who didn’t.

We play around quite attractively with some exhibition football but were it matters – both up front and in defense we aren’t cutting it. The Martinez way could work if he would just team up with some specialist coaches rather than stubbornly thinking he knows best all the time. We have Duncan and he seems to have helped Rom but there must be good people out there with their badges who aren’t quite ready for full time management yet. Find them and get them in.

I believe we really are on the cusp. It just ain’t gonna happen without some change and help, and that is not necessarily just by ditching RM.

And here is how you are being fooled (sorry Gavin 218 don’t mean to pick up on you especially since you say you have had your epiphany recently)

"Like the only other team who was successful with such a ’devil may care’ playing style – Kevin Keegan’s Newcastle United"

Except they were not successful. People just have that image that they were for a while and the media darlings still reminisce about the wonderful times they were beaten 4-3 at Anfield. That’s just the point, they always lost when it counted because all out attack does not work as a strategy. They won feck all, got found out big time, plummetted down the league with a manager who clearly had no Plan B and got relegated. Sound familiar?

Don’t forget either that in the arms race of the EPL this tactic has long been found out and countered, same as Watford under Taylor and Wimbledon were after initial successes.

Teams have to be able to adapt and play different styles, different tactics. In short have a Plan B, C and D for when A doesn’t work. Martinez does not, cannot and will not accept this – IMO – unquestionable and obvious fact and will go the same way as Keegan (except he probably won’t get the England gig where Keegan’s naivety and ineptitude where even more ruthlessly exposed)

So I'm glad we lost!

Our only achievement is to remain in the Premier League. Out of the other 6 clubs to achieve this EFC has the least points tally. Out of these 7 clubs EFC has been trophy less the longest. The League Cup is an embarrassment for EFC with 24 clubs being more successful in it.

Our only ambition is to stay in the Premier League, 10 trophy less years with Moyes proved that. That was the Aston Villa plan and look at them now.

Richard, I can see the point you’re trying to make but I’ve never wanted Everton to lose.

True, the prospect of losing to the RS again is horrific but we are surely approaching the time when we’ll reverse our fortunes against them.

We were coping fine, until Kone came on, and then our shape changed dramatically. It was a fucking absolutely ridiculous decision, at that stage of the game.

City still had to score, and we could have put Lennon on and played the same way, on the counter.

We were not getting overrun, and City never had much space out wide, until Martinez, decided to chase something, that didn't need to be chased. They had to score, we never did, and our ability to defend as a unit, and brake with pace, finished as soon as that sub was made.

It showed a distinct lack of knowledge in knowing how to hold what we have, and is the final nail in the coffin, for me regarding the manager.

You can't keep saying we were unlucky, when you make such stupid fucking decisions in how to manage a game. After all it was a semi final, and not a pre season friendly. I WAS FUCKING DISGUSTED WITH SUCH AN INEPT DECISION.

Agree totally. Kone didn't do what he does badly at all but what he does is absolutely the opposite of what was necessary. With pace and the threat of counterattack from Barkley, Deulofeu and Lukaku we could keep City pegged in their half. They pushed much further forward and pressed us higher up the pitch and we always concede in that situation, irrespective of the quality of opponent.

Deulofeu and to a lesser extent Barkley are pretty much the only players we have capable of threading a ball through to Lukaku (who I am absolutely convinced has been carrying an injury since the first leg and is not fully fit). Even Osman can do this too and he took him off. Kone slows things up and makes Lukaku play with his back to goal rather than running on to through balls and our attack was effectively nullified when Kone came on despite him not playing badly.

Why not start with Coleman?

Just please go, Martinez.

Yes, I was arguing that point with my neighbour last night... said I was paranoid about refs. I made it a good 3 minutes we missed out on; if the score had've been in our favor you’d not be hearing the end of it from the press/TV.

The consistently defensively flawed system and tactics we are playing is though. At 3-1 up we should have been playing tightly and organised looking to counter with speed. But no. Inflexibility rules again.

I’m fed up with it now and the worse thing about last night was that I was so unsurprised I could barely muster disappointment. Just apathy. Even scoring a goal holds less joy when you know that its almost inevitable that we will concede at least one if not 2 or 3 at some point.

We should really bring in a new manager now so that they have the rest of the season to adjust and scope out their team under relatively little pressure as we are fairly far from relegation. But that won’t happen. Martinez will stay till the Summer and probably win a few games between now and then and suggest that we are in exciting moment looking forward to the new season where we have learnt our lessons. Spare me. Martinez out.

Oh, and who noticed Crouch's dodgy pen miss against the RS in the shootout?? His missus must have threatened him with a barren spell in the box.

I want my centre backs to defend, not look "graceful". Playing Stones at RB last night ahead of Coleman was lunacy. Osman is so slow it was embarrassing to watch. Lennon should have played. At least he’s quick to close down players and puts a shift in. In a game where we were getting deeper and deeper it was essential that we had someone who could break quickly. Deulofeu absolutely rinsed Clichy in the first half and should have scored at the start of the second half on another quick break. Taking him off was another crazy decision.

A combination of bad luck, terrible refereeing and poor management cost us potentially our first trophy in over 20 years. What’s commonly known as a "cluster fuck". The most disappointing thing was that we could all see it coming. After the dust settled was anyone really surprised ??

What kind of a game plan was that? Defend and hit them on the break with a team who can’t defend to save their lives is no game plan at all. Whilst some of our attacking play is occasionally as good as I’ve seen for some time, Martinez has made a once solid defence into a ramshackle leaking sieve.

The undoubted quality we have in our squad is being squandered by a physco-babble coach who is so far out of his depth it’s frightening. It’s got to a point were I can no longer listen to his interviews as they’re simply cringe worthy. He’s tactically inept and over reliant on the use of players who need to sit out due to their poor form or lack of confidence or a combination of both.

Playing Stones, a rare talent but one who’s having a crisis of confidence due to the harsh spotlight he’s under, out of position, did the young lad no favours. Then subbing him whilst chasing the game for, wait for it, a right back was a bizarre decision amongst bizarre decisions.

Taking off the prodigious and developing Deulofeu, again whilst chasing the game for the shot Kone again was baffling. It’s clear that Martinez can’t change the way he plays and that way will only bring hearthache.

Martinez, it’s time to go.

I am not sure if the game gets distorted coming over to the USA but I didn’t think our play was as diabolical as others on here seem to think. I actually thought we came out and went at them.

This is Man City after all. Say what you want about their current seasonal run of form, but at each position, they have better players (not looking at future potential) than we do except at right back with Coleman in versus Zaboletta. Defense let us down again at times but really, a deflected shot, and an excellent header for goals are things that are allowed to happen with the current "philosophy" of defending of RM.

I am not sure that this is the game to decide to fire RM on if someone were on the fence as Everton gave a decent if not good account of themselves in everything but the final score and shots on goal. It is not like Everton were not worrying the Man City defense in and around the box even if shots failed to come as a result.

Two questions I have for the game are first, why is John Stones undroppable? He should have been on the bench given that he is behind Funes Mori at centre-back in performance and is not a full-time right back yet. Wonder how Coleman feels about that? This substitution took away the ability to bring on another player for the final 15 minutes or so.

Second question is being nitpicky but what the hell was Howard thinking on the second goal? He came out from his line at least 5 feet, turning and chasing the path of the ball instead of sliding along his line where he would have easily been to the goalpost to cover the shot. Wait a minute, it was Robles... so no fault there.

Guess we know the clean sheet problem and goals conceded is independent of the GK choice, so now many of you can get off Tim’s back about every goal that is scored and worry more about the lack of defensive structure and the inability to defend of some of our players who are called defenders.

I truly wanted a match-up with Liverpool in a final so we could beat them and win a trophy at their expense as what better feeling could there be in football for a Toffee? Now I have to root for freaking Man City.

Asking why we criticise so much? Because the team is getting worse each time we play, the same mistakes the same bad luck, if you allow the opposition to have loads of shots then the law of averages is they will score or get a deflection to score.

We have had very bad ref. Decisions but looking in the cold light of day at the city defeat we deservedly lost, we where not in the same league in the second half, how do you defend with a record like ours?

As to up and coming games, this won’t be liked and is very negative but if it means losing to Carlisle to get rid of our manager then I would take it. If he is still in position then my season ticket will not be renewed, not a great loss to the club but if I turn up why don’t the team.

Final point the away supporters deserve medals to travel, give up their time and money to be kicked in the teeth again and again with very little hope of change.

So sad I looked forward to the home matches but they have taken away the enjoyment and hope.

No coincidence there, I’m afraid. And in my view, a lot of this started when we had the supposed temerity to knob one of the Sky4/Elites/European Giants (arf) for one of our players. They go along way those petro dollars even at thirty bucks a barrel!

hTTp://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/manchester-city-manuel-pellegrini-hits-10802590

What about all the dodgy pens they’ve had against us in the last couple of seasons?

And Mangala and Fernandhino should both have been penalised and red carded for kicking Eto'o and another player (can’t quite remember who) in the head. Nothing is allowed to upset the favoured Sky teams.

My patience finally ran out ref Martinez being our manager last Sunday when once again we lost to a club that we really should not be losing to, especially at home where this season lets be honest our results overall have been appalling. So last Sunday against Swansea was the final straw for me.

I always wanted more entertainment when David Moyes continued to serve up his brand of football, but you know what? If I had a choice now between Moyes and his supposed "long ball" game that allows us to finish in the top five or Martinez and his "entertaining" football that is turning us into Wigan and thus relegation candidates then I’d choose the former every time.

Premier League football is a results driven business weather we like it or not and I’m afraid that Martinez cannot deliver positive results on a consistent basis because of our defensive frailties.

Bobby is a nice guy but nice guys don’t win anything and he has taken us as far as he can. Enough is enough, its time for a managerial change.

Even so the result was fair as City were the better side by a distance, as they should be for the money they’ve spent.

Stones makes mistakes because he is so young. Are there any others his age in the Premier League? I think this tendency will get less with time. I hope he is not sold – with Everton the money would disappear, or be wasted.

M y hope is that the board, perhaps with new owners, will realise after three years that the Martinez project isn’t working out and get a new manager, one who can get the players fit and strong and get the defence including Stones properly organised.

In modern football, money talks and we don’t have much money.

The same fans make excuses for him in the same manner that Martinez's excuses irritate them...

http://toffeeweb.com/season/12-13/comment/mailbag/21793.html

Can I refer you back to six months ago when every supporter to a man was celebrating that we put 2 fingers up to Mourhino and sang "Money can't buy you Stones".

Yes, the lad is having a tough time the last few games but form is temporary and class is permanent and we need to help the lad with his confidence right now – not pillory him for the manager’s incompetence.

I watched the game for a second time and it was appalling to see the slow closing-down of the City players. Okay, the officiating was bad but that is to be expected when you have Atkinson and playing the money clubs. It always seems to go in their favour as we also remember the Chelski game.

Then you have these no-name linesmen who miss blatant offsides and the incident yesterday when Deulofeu was clearly body-checked in the box but got nothing from the official with the flag five yards away.

The question is can RM get them back on track? Personally I think he just doesn’t have the mettle to do it

I must add that I hate this ref, and have noticed the Sky 5 getting the benefit of the doubt for years now. These guys are part of the Premier League package, and don’t like to upset the League’s hierarchy.

The success of the Premier League is about selling their "product", and for that they prefer the biggest names. Whether it is corruption or not is questionable, more likely is it is just a mindset, that refs absorb as they get the bigger gigs.

Fancy Atkinson being sarcy with Jags? Would he have said that to Rio, or John Terry? I doubt it! Maybe we are too nice, imagine Carra or Stevie Me – they would have chewed his head off.

He should not have started last night but it is been blatantly obvious that for the past two seasons at RB we have had Seamus or Hibbo. Roberto has not addressed that until last week with a failed bid. Stones could have cried off last night and got a note off his mum,but he didn’t.

Class will out as they say and John Stones, unless his brain melts, will prove that adage.Meanwhile Roberto has definitely proved that, no class, no talent, not a scoobbie.

You want to help Stones? Get rid rid of Martinez and bring in a professional manager and backroom staff.

Noting your comments regards the standards of refs and in particular one, on this thread and the other one running, just wondered what "ungentalmanly conduct" is??

The sooner, the better.

Question 1: "How has the referee done 1st half, Mark?"
"No big decisions, but I can’t believe how little added time he allowed, that’s a disgrace." (No mention of the phantom foul by Lukaku when it looked as though he might score with the last action of the half.)

Question 2: "Now, what about that penalty by Stones on Sterling a fortnight ago?"
"That really was bad, I don’t know how a ref can miss something like that."

It all just seemed to be part of the Premier League script: decisions must follow the money. I don’t think we lost the match because of the referee, but he was enthusiastic for City in the 2nd half.

My ticket put me amongst the City supporters; those I have talked with in the past always seemed quite grounded, but many now have had their heads turned by new money and expect results and decisions as God-given rights.

A referee ordered a penalty to be retaken in a Sunday league football game after an opposition player "broke wind" as the ball was kicked.
The referee also gave the player a yellow card for the noise which was classed as "ungentlemanly conduct".

But Chorlton Villa, who conceded a goal on the second take, went on to win the match 6-4 against International Manchester FC at Turn Moss in Stretford, Manchester. Ian Treadwell, who has been manager of Chorlton Villa for eight years, said: "One of our players 'broke wind' and only the referee heard it and he booked the player.

"The other player had the penalty saved because it was a bad penalty it was nothing to do with any noise. Not one of their team remonstrated with the referee when the first penalty was taken. They were as shocked as we were as to why. "We are waiting for the Football Association to contact us after they have received the report."

The Manchester Publicity league club faces total fines of £97 for three dismissals and two yellow card bookings from the game. Mr Treadwell said: "The conduct of our players is normally exemplary. We are not a dirty team and we like to play football. "While I won't condone the actions of the players it is an emotive game and some of the players were sent off for entering into conversation with the referee. "This has come at a bad time in the season as we don't have sponsor and we are looking for a new sponsor for next season." Mr Treadwell said his team had learnt lessons from the game but the outcome was a "shame".

Pauline Riley, secretary and treasurer of International Manchester FC, said: "Both teams are very friendly. There's no animosity. It was just hilarious. "I did not get any bad vibes when they were telling me."

It makes me laugh when RM comes out with the statement "winning mentality" Even the games we have won were not exactly cruise-in-the-park affairs.

When this manager finally gets the boot, he will genuinely be dismayed, as he really thinks he’s doing a good job; it’s the players and the fans that let him down.

I think we need to see where we stand as a fan base. If TW is to have an ultimate purpose, it is to air our views – a mix of supporters who attend home or away as well as fans far removed from Goodison, for distance or personal issues.

Do we represent the view of the match day supporters or are we just an unrepresentative sample of fans? I don’t know, but let’s have our say at least.

"It doesn’t matter how many times the opposition score against us, when we score a goal, we’re the winners." He’s tried best of 3 then best of 5 but we keep losing that.