Martinez keen to see Finch Farm development proceed

Jokes aside, I’m all for anything that can improve results, and keep our facilities up with the Joneses.

He certainly has his faults, but one thing he’s doing is modernising the old Everton. Something we’ve been crying out for, for years. Sleepy old Everton being brought into the 21st century at last. Good on him for having the balls to change things.

I’m not his biggest fan, nor do I hate him, but positivity is something he brings to our club, along with forward thinking and modernisation. New money hopefully on the way in and we have many reasons to be cheerful.

Cue a hundred "He must be taking them on an 18-30 holiday to Benidorm this summer LOL" posts

Finch Farm should never have been sold in a deal that mirrors those Loan Shark style adverts with the £1500% apr written at the bottom.

This should be our first signing, do we have a buy back clause in the contract with the council?

If he’s that worried about how much sleep they get after European competition matches, then why not stay overnight and fly home the next day?

As for "again". We didn't pay for the initial development did we? I thought it was the previous owners.

Personally, I don't know whether FF is a good deal for us or not. I'd just be rehashing work that I'm sure the club has done. It obviously does have cashflow benefits and we carried no risk around the development and, I'm assuming, maintenance. I'm 100% confident it's not as bad as the analogy you gave though.

Is it being reported anywhere whether we are actually building this facility? I would have assumed that LCC would be contracting the builder to our specification... with a corresponding increase in our rent.

I think the point is when at Finch Farm they can monitor the sleep. Just like they monitor how hard a person is training they will be able to monitor how much fatigue / sleep someone needs. As Roberto says, particularly important after European away game (if we ever get there again).

Also, sometimes I suspect they will have two training sessions, one in morning and one in afternoon and again very important that in-between players have a sleep. Sending them off home or to hotel to rest does not mean they will sleep.

Perhaps we will have players bursting from their rooms at 4AM:

"BOSS! BOSS! It’s happened – I can feel it! I’m in a phenomenal moment of form!"

Ok for the medical facility improvements but bedrooms?

It is the medical bit I don’t get – surely there is a local doctor’s surgery to sort out the odd sore knee?

It also seems to me that Roberto did not just dream this facility up, it would have been given a lot of thought by the board, certainly the financial implications of "Shall we still rent or now buy Finch Farm" It would mean vital hours that the lads could get their heads down, rather than travelling home from Speke in the early hours of the morning then, either missing a day’s training, or having to meet up and train later that day or early the following day.

I think that some posts have just used the news to have another knock at our manager. Well, if this new shareholder is anything like what we hope, either Martinez will be leading us back into Europe, or another manager will, in the next season or two.

It seemed to me, that when we lost the Cup Final, and our deserved Treble, that our lads were knackered. Perhaps if they’d had a coach pick them up from Speke and take 'em to a facility of our own straight off the plane, we may have well won the Cup.

The facility will still be there if Martinez gets the push in the next season or two. The Board have planned this for the longer term not just on the whim of a manager.

I hope he can develop the team and the squad into a very successful one. If he doesn’t make, then it won’t be Kenwright just leaving things cosy, I feel certain that our new major shareholder will be demanding top performance from everyone at the club.

I think it’s much better to have such a facility and a new manager decides to use it, or not, as he thinks fit.

We have an expectation that these lads are professionals and wouldn't do things like have a late night watching tv and drinking coke... but many of us are professionals and I couldn't tell you how many times I've had a late night for no good reason and regretted it at work the next day. They're less experienced than me too.

I think we also have to maybe give credit where credit’s due to the likes of Bill (and whoever else is responsible) who have obviously been working quite closely and tirelessly with Moshiri with regards to what they both think is best for the club. In less than a week since the news broke of Moshiri’s investment we are now upgrading FF facilities and have a new match day sponsorship with Avon. That’s not a bad start. I just wish people would start to look on the bright side of this type on news instead of looking at the negatives and mocking. We have to start somewhere, things aren’t going to change overnight. We also have to be realistic, Moshiri is quite obviously the freshest of breath’s of fresh air we have had a very long time but it’s going to take time for him to do what he wants to do.

As far as Finch Farm is concerned I just hope part of the plan is to purchase it back from LCC and expand and develop it in to one of the best complexes in the country. I’m very jealous of City’s facilities and hope we can somehow emulate what they have to a certain degree. FF has something like 11 full size pitches, City have 12 and two of them are full stadium size with stands. That’s what we should be aiming for, at least one full size stadium pitch with stands for practise matches and youth and academy games.

Surely FF can accommodate say 8/9 training pitches and one full size stadium pitch? Does anyone know if there’s any possibility of expansion to the surrounding land? Just a thought but it's what I believe we should be aiming for. Maybe this is just the start of this type of development.

How many games in Europe will we need to play to justify this never mind qualifying first. If it's just a matter of couple of grand then let’s go for it. Otherwise, will it be cost-effective?

I seem to remember that Alex Ferguson insisted that players he bought had to live in Manchester hence Rooney leaving Sandown Park, was it?

I don’t know if they subsidise mortgages but perhaps it is a cheaper, if not better, option.

I’ll be glad when we spend as much time on actual playing details like free kicks, corners and defending.

Whilst any improvement in facilities is to be welcomed, it does seem a bit weird that a place for the players to get forty winks is viewed as a priority and "a must in modern football" by the manager (When he starts showing the players around these new bedrooms, he better not have the cheek to stress the importance of them keeping fucking clean sheets though. That’s all I’m saying.)

I don’t see how it "really proves Martinez has a long term plan" (or "balls" come to that). What’s stage 2? A top of the range teasmaid and complimentary biscuits? What does it culminate in? Every player being presented with their own personal robotic maid like the one Paulie got for his birthday in Rocky 4?

It’s just a place for the players to doss down at the end of the day. Nice enough, nothing to complain about, but no indicator that the manager has some secret master plan to drag the club toward a brighter future.

Now we've had a couple of below par seasons he's a charlatan and player's bedrooms are the worst idea ever and the money should be spent on a defensive coach.

Fickle bunch aren't we?

it has got absolutely nothing to do with Martinez. The bedroom bit is stupid.

I travel the world with my job and I am sure you will agree having a few hours kip in your own bed in your own house is far more beneficial than staying in a hotel or strange place. I don’t know where our players live but surely a taxi from the airport home can’t be that much longer than going back to Finch Farm.

As far as I know the players do not do a training session the day after any game so getting home in the early hours from France or wherever shouldn’t be an issue. There are a lot more problems that should be addressed by the Club rather than bedrooms!

"There are a lot more problems that should be addressed by the Club rather than bedrooms!"

The bedrooms were something started by Martinez when he first arrived. I don’t think that at any point Martinez has said "Sorry lads, no defensive drills today I’m busy picking out wallpaper for your new bedrooms."

I does smack of further over-indulgence in already pampered first-team players though.

Additionally, it must be a precursor to us buying Finch Farm back from the council? It is akin to a private tenant building an extension on a rental house (with the landlords permission). The landlord benefits from the increased value to the property... assuming we are footing the bill..

You and I might prefer it, but we're not (well I'm not) being asked to perform to the limits of our physical capabilities.

If these two training sessions the players apparently have and where they have to have a kip between reflect the physical condition of the players then we are really in the shit.

We must be, and have been for a while, one of the most unfit squads in the league. Not only do we see this week after week but the players themselves admit their training is not based on fitness. So to have to have a kip between two sessions is a joke in the extreme.

As regards to defensive drills. Well, I am positive every supporter wishes we had practised them!

If you read the posts, I said that several were aiming at Roberto Martinez. I thought that I’d made the point that the club as a whole (the Board) must have considered and approved the development. So just to be clear, I am saying that some posters have aimed specifically at Martinez; not at the club.

I think that it is a fair topic of discussion as to whether it will be of benefit or not. But some posts were specifically pointing to Martinez as though he was the sole creator and developer.

If the club feel it is to the benefit of the playing staff, they have spent a lot of money on it. All Martinez has done is say how useful it will be.

I'm a bit confused. On the one hand you say that we have an unfit squad and on the other you seem to be saying you don't want the players to rest properly in between training sessions. Most professional runners will have a kip between many of their training sessions. Radcliffe, Bolt etc.

A hard session will wear them out, so seems sensible for the players to be able to eat and sleep and then start again 4 hrs later so as to help improve their fitness levels. On the few occasions I've done 2 training sessions a day a kip or at least lie down is all I've wanted in between.

I appreciate the idea about your own bed being best, it sure is but not if it's a 1-hour drive away and you have an afternoon training session to come back for.

Anything that helps.

I don’t know about that. There’s certainly evidence to show that quality of sleep is more important than quantity. It’s also factual to say that people generally sleep better in a familiar and comfortable atmosphere.

After a week in Spain would you fly home and opt to stay in a hotel 30 minutes drive from your own bed?

Everton is a stuffy old-fashioned club, with what appear to be a lot of stuffy old-fashioned supporters – and I mean that in a nice way. There’s nothing wrong with ’knowin yer istory’ and all that, but there’s plenty to be said for modernising the club. I would urge people to get behind things like this, and actually join in the positivity the manager is attempting to bring to our club – do you think the new investor made his millions by being negative or mocking at every idea thrown his way?

Sleep is extremely important for recovery (that shouldn’t be news to anyone) and a lot of the top European clubs have these facilities (that shouldn’t be news either) so why not Everton? Or would you prefer us to carry on running a shitty little tin-pot club with no ambition or dare-to-believe attitude?

I’m so sick of listening to all the naysayers on here. Change the record.

You believe the bedroom bit is a bit stupid. I think it's a good idea but what really matters, is what the club think. As for more pressing matters, it might just be that this is considered to be a pressing matter regarding the efficiency of the players.

I think we will now be seeing equally pressing matters in other areas of the club being attended to in a much more positive way than it has been for decades.

It’s a good idea in my mind, it is also apparently to be used for new youth signings so they’ll have somewhere, and more importantly, someone, to stay with and keep an eye on them.

Is this another opportunity to slag Martinez off? What next? Headline..." Martinez takes a dump"... cue.."That bastard Martinez, using our sewer system... piss off back to Spain."

After a week gorging out in Spain and I lived half an hour from the Airport, I couldn't wait to hit my own pit and snore for England while sleeping off a week's worth of booze and scoff.

If however, I had to get back to football training while half way through my snorefest, I might want the option of kipping at the nearest decent hotel.

If Everton are paying for the building works for the accommodation block, then this will not affect the rent, as under property law, any ’tenants improvements’ must be discounted for rent review purposes.

It is a complete fallacy anyway to argue that owning the freehold is somehow ’free’. If you have £10m tied up in a property asset, then you are foregoing upwards of £500k a year, at least, that those funds could earn you invested elsewhere.

Personally, over the years I have caught up with a lot of sleep at Goodison Park.

I know Swansea spared no expense in providing their players with a suitable place to sleep

Link

It would also be of great help to new signings like Funes Mori, Besic and Rodriguez who would welcome a friendly base whilst searching for a suitable place of their own.

This has obviously been in the pipeline for quite some time but better late than never.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/32276547

Most players live Alderly Edge / Wilmslow / Southport / Wirral – which takes longer than 30min on a clear run.

So the team arrives back at say 1am – travel home and get to bed (say they have a good run and call it an hour) they will be home and in bed by 2am.

To get to training that morning for 9am, they would have to get up about 6.30am / 7am – so approx. 4.5h / 5 hours sleep.

If they stay at Finch Farm they probably wouldn’t have to get up till 8am – so 6.5 hours sleep.

An extra 1.5h / 2h sleep for an Athlete can make a big difference.

People can knock the idea, but I feel they are just very short sighted.

As Dave Brailsford says, "every little margin we find can prove the difference between defeat or victory". But I suppose for some people their philosophy is summed up by "ignorance is bliss".

On this story Roberto is just the mouthpiece for the club. He mentioned the possibility of building a sleeping accommodation at Finch Farm in his first season. My recall is that it was more as a secure lodging for youth players, but that it would also be utilised - as described here - as a short recovery refuge for players between morning and afternoon training, or when returning late from European games.

There is good sports science data behind this (and thanks to James Marshall for the excellent link, primarily on the Real Madrid model that the FF idea is based on, as acknowledged by Roberto in the full Echo story).

Just because Roberto is the spokesperson breaking this story doesn’t mean it is exclusively his idea, his decision, his funding or his labour that will turn it into something concrete and real. Nor does it mean this tops his ’to do’ list to the detriment of his day job as some try to imply in this thread.

How does the song go...? "If yer know yer ’istory..." you will know that Everton has a long and proud record in taking the initiative in introducing innovative ideas. Innovation doesn’t belong only in the 19th or 20th century.

This is a cracking initiative and it gets my full backing and support, whether it comes from Roberto, the board or the collective.

What I would say is that professional athletes (and that is what footballers are) factor sleep in during the day, not just at night. It will be extremely beneficial for our players – particularly preseason to be able to do full days with sleep in between and not have to leave the site. Will also be beneficial for the medical staff and coaches to not lose any travel time for players to go and rest – meaning more time for assessment and giving information/coaching.

For me any improvement no matter how small is vital – they all add up. Clive Woodward’s philosophy was to make 100 things 1% better.

In 2014 City started having their players sleep at their training center before home games – yes they have sleeping facilities. So do other clubs. As every club improves their facilities in a significant way, they put sleepers in for their players. LVG installed sleep pods so his players can nap between training sessions. Southampton has custom mattresses for their players taken to their teams hotels for away games. Making the most of the latest training science is what the best clubs do and sleep is one of those areas. It’s common.

Come on. EFC is improving their facilities. Why is this the only club that has supporters that thinks this is a bad idea?

Fickle after 18 months? I think you need a different definition lad. This prospective new ’hotel’ needs a new landlord, pronto, while we are in this fucking ’moment’. I despair, for those of you how constantly type... I despair.

How will we ever reach the goals we all want if we accept and make excuses for rank amateur. What else can you call him, professional?

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/32276547

The manager is the spokesperson for the club on a day to day basis and he has given a positive description of the Club's addition to the training complex. He could, of course, come out and described it as "a load of cack."

James Marshall doesn't talk all cack, as his link to the BBC article about Real Madrid's facility shows, which some might just have missed!

Thanks for your input – I talk so much cack you managed to post the exact same link as me, only 3 hours later.

Back to the drawing board.

Anything that helps the players in training can’t be all bad. As for the sleeping quarters for daily naps, I thought, based upon the comments on the games, that the players were using a half of each game for nap time, anyway.

As for the proposed indoor facility, that would be great for rainy days, but since it is England, isn’t that every day nearly? A concern would be artificial turf which could cause more injuries and messes up the way teams play since the ball doesn’t hold up as well on that surface.

When I played footy I always enjoyed playing in the rain.

Jim, we don't own Finch Farm. Liverpool City Council do. They bought it off the developers and our club pay a lot less in rent as a consequence.

Although not linked, the Mayor of Liverpool is an Everton season Ticket holder, so at the moment, the situation is of benefit to the City and to the Club. You're right about the rain. Jim.

Manchester, which is about 30 miles along the East Lancs Road from us has a rainy reputation (deserved!) and from there it's said "if you can see the Pennines (a range of hills going up the spine of England), it's going to rain...and if you can't see the Pennines; it is raining!"

Why do we need dugouts, stands on all sides, floodlights, double decker stands, under soil heating etc.

Times change so should we.

Liverpool Council paid £12m for the site.

We offer them £13m and buy it back.

1. it is now our to do as we wish
2. we are no longer a asset selling club to keep a positive cash flow
3. Liverpool council get a £13m extra cash to spend as only they know how
4. One of Mr Moshiri's first acts to show we are building and investing and not a significant amount needed.

Good statement of intent. Probably popular and signalling an upward trajectory.

Football wise, it’s up to supporters to make of him what they will. My view on Martinez is that he is a mixture, part I enjoy and part I find frustrating. I think that whatever fans make of him, the scenery has changed dramatically. I think that with Mr Moshiri here, there will be an onus to be successful. Roberto will have to be successful, or he will be replaced (in my view the end of next season) if he does not satisfy the requirement to either win a trophy or to get into Europe.

But this thread was about the facilities that the club are providing for the players. It seemed to me that he was being derided on here for something that the club had planned and carried out. In other words I think he was being derided for something which is beneficial to our club. But whether it is beneficial to our club, or not. my point is, he is being derided by some for something that he is not responsible for.

That to me is unfair.

Thanks for the information. I was under the impression we rented it after the fiasco from trying to convert the old training grounds into a housing development that fell through to Everton's financial detriment.

The last comment continues to raise my appreciation for British humour. Thanks for it.

If I remember right the rent was a lot more than we’re paying now and there was an opportunity every five years to buy the place. But seeing as we didn’t have a pot to piss in, we stuck with paying the rent. Then the developers got in the mire a bit and the Corpy bought it.

I wouldn’t be surprised if we bought it now we’re rich (can’t believe it yet! I’m still waiting fpor something utterly doom laden to appear in the Echo about "Mad Billionaire sectioned by his family over insane wish to buy into basket case club on Merseyside...thousands of Blues found weeping into their pints in all the pubs on County Road!"

Who’s generalising now?

Maybe SOME of the players will find it familiar and comfortable to have a kip in.

It's a great decision, and I'm sure moving with the times, it's only going to be replicated by every other club, who have ambitions to be the best that they can.

You can Knock the manager for loads of reasons, but anyone behind this decision only deserves credit.

How do the players need a rest between the so-called two training sessions they do a day??

It is impossible they can be tired as they cannot put any effort into any session to make them tired !

I could understand if we put some fitness effort in and they were totally knackered after sessions... but not only do we actually seem like we are the most unfit team in the league – the players intimate that fitness is not a priority.

Why can’t any of our players last 90 minutes plus?

We are an embarrassment.