Bonfire Night Roasting at the Bridge

Could this be the first 0-0 of the season? To be honest I would take it now if offered.

Obviously they don't want to concede early and trust the defence will see them into the second half with a shout at getting the result, much like the Man City game and like Boro at City today.

Let's hope I get proved wrong. But, looking on the bright side, another great game from Barkley and a solid defence would be a good starting point. Interesting to see how the back three works and we actually use the full backs to an attacking effect.
COYB

Is it because we now have a forward thinking manager who is willing to mix his tactics up depending on the opposition!?

Sounds like it's YOU have decided – so leave everyone else out of it!!

What did you want? A 2-3-5 formation and "go for it?"

First time he's changed the formation this season and, if Gueye was fit, he would probably have the same 4-2-3-1 formation today.

The oft-quoted inferiority complex kicks in again... it's just not good enough.

Game over. Just hope it is not a humiliation and Bolasie doesn't get a red card.

* Sarcasm!

The fucking manager – for a gutless selection, we are getting what we deserve.

Negative tactics... and like playing with 9 with Cleverley and Oviedo. No attack, sitting ducks waiting for a beating.

Why bring back Jagielka? And Barkley has shrunk back into his shell again. Barry lost it for the first goal then Coleman spent too much time pointing instead of tackling, followed by questionable keeping.

The second goal a minute later shows our mentality... weak! And then Jagielka blasting it out for a corner when under little pressure results in a goal.

I should leave some space to moan about goals 4, 5 and 6. Packing the defence is a Moyes tactic, try packing the midfield instead and having some of the ball. JOKE!

They are a good team in good form, but you need to compete. Could have been 5!

I think this shows what a poor creative midfield we have, nobody to hold on to the ball and dictate play.

At least I think by now, Koeman, if he's any sort of decent manager, will know there needs to be big changes, maybe even with the kids.

Good or bad, always a blue... COYB

Yes, this is a bad performance; yes, the line-up is questionable, and perhaps Ronald has made mistakes, but this sort of performance at the top clubs has gone on for over two decades.

A couple of victories at Old Trafford, one at the other place, one at Stamford Bridge, none that I can remember at Arsenal, a few at White Hart Lane, a few at Man City but not since they established themselves as Champions League regulars – not only that, but when most Everton sides come up against hungrier teams on the road, they very often fail to rise to the occasion.

Mr Moshiri had better have plenty of dosh because in the next couple of years we need to see some of it on the pitch and stop this sell-to-buy policy which most clubs of our size don't employ.

I want to know what he does – just one thing he does well will do.

Defeatist tactics and formation from Koeman and pathetic shite football from the shower of smiley faced lazy fuckers on the pitch.

The second best defensive record in the league before today and he goes and changes to a back 3???

Coleman way too far forward from the start and the three central defenders hadn't a clue who to pick up. Keeper should have saved both goals but it's probably unfair to single out just Coleman and the keeper, all 11 players have been terrible.

To think I was considering paying for BT Sport before the game to watch this, at least I could only see half of the poor Everton play on the low-quality live stream...

NO EXCUSE can be made in mitigation. I never thought I'd be so embarrassed to be an Evertonian in over 65 years of support...

We need a top quality goalie and if we don't have one then we'll never be top six under the current pair. We ought to be 1 down and still in this but we're not. Our shape is all wrong etc etc but we are missing a top player between the sticks.

Forget what the rest of the team are doing, start right there at the goalkeeper position. Championship at best. I won't see your replies because it will all be "I told you so" etc but we must start at the back, win, lose or draw, it starts at the back.

Barkley has gone missing once more, along with most of them, I have to say.

Nothing changed, has it... we are still a long way from a top 6 team.

Koeman made the right choice by removing Oviedo who was not in the game. When you are playing as a wing back, you have to try to create something.

Our midfield is the problem as we don't have a playmaker. Barkley is out of his depth here as is Cleverley... If we had someone like Fabregas or even Rooney, it would look a little bit different. We would probably lose anyway but it would be a much more even fight.

But we have stunk from the 1st. minute so it probably didn't affect our getting twatted.

Koeman has a lot to answer for, I never thought he was the answer for us. Moyes done better than Koeman with less money.

Of course it's his fault, he's the bloke who has pulled the strings for nearly 20 years and we have always just about competed in the top seven or eight teams in the league. He supplies the mandate to the manager, he makes the deals for incoming and outgoing players, and he sits there and takes the plaudits when it occasionally goes right but disappears from view when things go pear-shaped.

This season, on the back of today's performance and result, could send us into a very quick spiral of defeats; will the board spend any money in January? – probably not.

Telly off. Dog in garden, limping. Opening bottle. Looking at Howard Kendall on my season ticket and hoping he's stopped spinning in his grave...

Everyone has been extremely poor but at least Williams is trying and has defended quite well compared to the dross around him.

He has been severely let down by Jagielka tonight who may as well have not been on the pitch. Time for Jagielka to be moved on if players are going past him like he isn't there.

One more and Koeman has to go the same way as Mike Walker and not see out a full season.

Are we talking about Sunderland? No, I am talking about the mighty Blues who couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. That supposed £100m is looking totally insufficient right now. A mass clearout and overhaul needs to be done.

Whatever team spirit there was under Moyes has had the heart and soul ripped out by Martinez and confusion and fingerpointing remain.

We cannot build on sand.

Oviedo & Cleverley shouldn't be seen in the panel again, and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

I think we can see where we are.

Koeman got the tactics all wrong tonight, he and the players need to have a long hard look at themselves – disgraceful all round.

I can't believe this is all down to Gueye being absent as we've been shite for over a month now. Sort it out quickly, Mr Koeman.

As Patrick earlier in the thread said, we've often played like this away at top four clubs. The problem is, today we didn't get away with it.

The game was done and dusted after 20 minutes with Stekelenburg's howlers.

Chelsea look a good team. That's as well as I've seen any team perform in the Premier League this season. Pedro and Hazard on a different level to any one of our players.

One saving grace: Everton's best player only had 24 minutes on the pitch, but showed a verve and nerve more senior players failed to display: Tom Davies. Received the ball. Played the ball. Simples. More encouraging signs that the boy could have a future.

Koeman got this one wrong today, including his in-game re-shuffle.

Luckily Gana back next match and also good that Barry is suspended. He is finished. Hopefully McCarthy and Baines back too for the next game.

There were so many poor performances today. The only bright spot was young Davies when came on looked promising.

Early season promise has fizzled out.

Roman (candle) Abramovich must be delighted.

EFC need a rocket up the arse.

Koeman got it badly wrong today, starting with dropping a sub-standard goalkeeper who's just kept a clean sheet for another-sub standard goalkeeper.

The other 13 fannies aren't worth talking about.

Shocking and not good enough.

"Here's the new boss, same as the old boss."

That said I still have complaints about tonight; their 1st and 3rd goals were offside under the current rules, and the 5th was imo clearly handled by Costa to control the ball before setting up the goal. Although as we got thoroughly got outplayed I can let them go.

But listening to Trevor Francis on the BT commentary got me even angrier, I can't recall a more biased commentator for a long time. The performance was bad enough but he tipped me over the edge. I now have to let some fireworks off in this mood, what could possibly go wrong?

We need to bounce back in a positive way after the tediously dull international break against Swansea as we have a difficult looking December looming on us.

And why, with the 2nd best defensive record, do you change to an unfamiliar system in the toughest game so far; and keep the 'way-past-his-use-by-date' Jagielka on the pitch?

At £6m a year, our boss has got some explaining to do

I just wonder if he will be at this club come the end of the season. Things have to change, a new team, new formation... and a new tactic to give our fans what they deserve.

Then, I thought:

"Nah ! Fukkit ! I can blame that twat O'Neill!"

Or....

"Well at least we won't be last on MotD".

You choose.

Men v boys this evening. Before the players disappear for the international break, they should have to watch that together and remind themselves of what it looked like and it should never be repeated.

Move on, COYB.

The question is: Can Everton attract the level of quality needed to go that step further? That is going to be extremely difficult – particularly if we don't qualify for Europe.

Bad Day at the office, but that was one hell of a performance by Chelsea. It pains me to say it but full credit to Chelsea. Lick your wounds, Everton, back to basics for our next game, put this one behind us.

Even Moyes went 4-4-2 today and went for it – and that was a team who've failed to win.

We were beaten today before we got off the bus and all because Gueye was missing? Christ, that's really sad... but it's the truth.

Hardly surprising that we can't build a good team using old players. The way forward has to be a nucleus of youth with some experienced but motivated players to nurse them along. This team lacks energy, lacks motivation, lacks heart, and lacks basic ability to control and pass the ball.

Jags looked very sluggish and we mustn't play two CBs in their thirties. Give Holgate a decent run in the side. Lennon, Cleverley, Oviedo and Mirallas will never be part of our future – just not good enough.

Chelsea were very good but that was a total embarrassment.

Stek looked like the goalie who didn't play at Fulham. Coleman was lucky to be on the field for his tackle on Costa – the only time we actually touched one of their players. Jags looks like its a season too far. Williams's leadership skills went awol as did his defending. Funes Mori is not a left back. Oviedo is a squad player at best, unfortunately, due to injury. Mirallas can go as hes not up for it. Gueye is invaluable as today proves. Barry is still required for his football brain but a younger replacement is required as without Gueye he suffers. Cleverley out asap. Lennon is a squad player at best. Deulofeu can go as he can't play 90 mins and slows the game down, far too much. Bolasie needs to mentally roll his sleeves up in games like this, as doing it against lesser teams is not why we paid all that money for him. Lukaku needs to start showing more when things are going wrong. Barkley is an enigma and unless he stops letting games pass him by without him influencing it at all, why should he be picked.

I feel HUMILIATED today and the first Everton player to come out and say WE OWE IT TO THE FANS will be taken to the Mersey and dumped in it. Chelsea are a top class team and now Mourinho has left, the players are obviously happier with Conte. Koeman needs to decide which system he wants for the players he has and stick with it until we can get much better players in. The players he has now are not up to what he needs from them.

Next time we play Chelsea at Stamford Bridge unless its in the FA Cup, I expect the team to have at least 5 / 6 new players on the pitch. My final point is: they bring on Oscar, we bring on Davies – the gap is enormous so the money needed will be enormous too – over to you Koeman, Walsh & Moshiri. A top four team fit for a World Class Stadium costs, as nothing comes cheap in football. Now where's that bottle of Scotch.

Getting beaten by a lesser team when you have had the majority of the game is hard to swallow; being outclassed by truly world-class players is a different matter. What we should do is aspire to those standards.

Not likely to calm the naysayers on here though. The weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth will continue unabated.

The whole mentality of the club has to change and it won't until we get rid of Kenwright and his acolytes who are like a cancer to all of the high standards that Everton Football Club used to stand for.

Still.

But, credit where it's due: Chelsea were brilliant tonight, maybe we let them perform but the quality of their touch, movement, understanding was on a completely different level to ours. We looked like a 3rd Division Club in a 3rd Round Cup tie. At best.

We are light years behind... get used to it.

Koeman is a disgrace. He has allowed us to go up until the end of the year without a goalkeeper. Judge Rinder would be a better keeper than Stekelenburg.

Trust me, Kenwright is the most to blame – some of you still don't get this... and never will.

Perhaps they are so hapless – and hopeless – that he can do nothing with them... and, to add to the their haplessness, his team selection and tactics were utter shite today!

In all fairness, Captain Point was taken off at half-time that day whereas this Captain Phil stunk the gaff out for the whole match.

It has happened to us before, and not that long ago or that far away either. What is happening is that Everton are paying the price for not being competitive in the transfer market and relying on too many players who are way past their best or plainly not good enough to play at the very highest level.

Until the men in suits realise that they have to generate income outside of the TV gravy train and the loyal fans' season ticket money, the club will continue its downward spiral and results such as today's will become more frequent.

Once every four or five years, we'd take a pasting off some team or other, but we're now seeing at least one a season – if not a couple of such results a season.

At the same time, Everton handing out thrashings to other teams has become less frequent and most games that Everton triumph in are decided by a one- or two-goal margin.

Everton FC now stand at a cross-roads: do they improve their commercial activities to such an extent as to give the manager a proper chance of competing with those that have bigger resources? Or do they carry on as they have done for the last couple of decades, hoping that the manager can work some kind of miracle, as the Leicester boss managed last season?

It's easy on days like today to look at the short-term problem and rush to judgement on the manager's failings but the real problem – the most significant issue, that has blighted the club for far too long – is that they are still being run like a 19th century football club in the 21st century. Ask Burnley fans about their decline in the '70s.

Is Moshiri willing and able to do anything to arrest the decline? Some will argue that he already has by making Ronald the manager, but that's not enough; the club has to focus on the team, the results and to some extent on the performances.

They should be questioning why so many players, so often, feel it is okay to go through the motions when things have gone against them.

The directors set the tone that the team are supposed to live up to, but exactly what is the tone that the owners and directors are setting? And perhaps, more importantly – Does it match what the fans expect?

What does Koeman do? The exact fucking opposite!!! It doesn't work. We were very lucky at Man City; will we now have one of the useless twats coming out and telling us how they will try harder next time?

Don't fucking pay them for this, Koeman as well... take a few thousand out of the safe wage packet, that may give them the kick up their fat lazy arses that they need.

This is not a bad day at the office... This is every-fucking-day at the office.

Gueye will be back, and hopefully Baines is back, and Koeman has to bring McCarthy back in, because tonight, he had to see players not fit to wear the Everton jersey.

Yes, Chelsea were good... but there is no excuse for not competing. Lukaku had no service and was not in the game because the whole game was played in our half but he's still as guilty as all the others. He once again avoided ALL heading opportunities and just left Costa totally free to score the third because he switched off at the back post. His abject laziness has now rubbed off on all the others.

That sort of result will be repeated this season away at all the other usual suspects if we just turn up and don't even try. They should all donate a week's wages to charity after that display which was at least on a par with the worst I have ever seen from an Everton side in 50 years. They didn't even look fit enough! There's plenty on this site that could and would show more effort for the blue cause. We'd still get stuffed of course but at least there'd be some effort shown. An embarrassing disgrace!!

That said, the visible lack of professional commitment by so many of our pseuds made it a doddle for them.

This squad is full of people who, ever since BBS took over, have got used to conceding four of more goals at least once a season. They therefore accept being hammered. If they didn't accept it, they'd work hard enough in training to prevent it happening, ever. It very rarely happened in all the years Moyes was here (and no, I don't want him back). Their weasel words are an insult to us fans.

If Mr Moshiri is serious in his ambition for striving for Champions League status, he's by now surely aware of what he needs to do by way of player purchase and disposal.

Apart from Idrissa Gueye, all the other midfield players at the club would never get close to a top four team, and maybe only Lukaku would get on the bench of some of them from our, er, strikers. To me the defenders and goalkeepers deserve to play behind a midfield and attack worthy of the term "professional" before their fates are decided.

Today was far from a one-off but I don't blame the manager... yet. He'll not have seen too many thick, lazy shysters in the squads he used to grace as a player but I'm bloody sure he knows what they look like now.

Over to you Mr Moshiri.

Chelsea are a tribute to a fat wallet as well as good coaching.

We are a tribute to mingebag owners and a manager who hasn't put his own stamp on the team yet.

Chelsea would have beaten anyone today, but we were left with nowhere to hide. Stephen, Sheedy, Reid and Bracewell are what they all have to live up to and frankly they will never be able to.

The collective talent we had to put on the pitch today is a mile away from the collective talent of Chelsea plus their reserves.

I like Tom Davies, but he's not yet a choice that will stand head and shoulders above others ahead of him for the first team.

Roll on the transfer windows.

Looking very much like the Moshiri era is rapidly becoming a false dawn.

How the hell did no one in our highly paid coaching/scouting team not identify that corner despite having 11 men in our area???

I know what Shankly said, but didn't someone else say, 'It's only a game'?

Back in two weeks.

At least big Ron now knows (if he didn't already) that the vast majority of our squad aren't Premier League standard. Massive overhaul needed in the next couple of transfer windows.

Don't be greedy with the prices put on the players' heads that we need to offload. Let them go cheap or we could end up being stuck with them.

We need to improve dramaticly in the next 12 months if we want to compete on a constant basis in this league. The big question is how much is Moshiri willing to bankroll our club? Huge investment needed. We will find out in the near future...

One things for certain – it will be an almost unrecognizable squad this time next season. It can't come quick enough – this one's useless!

I don't think Everton is a happy club behind the scenes (old regime v new) from whispers I've heard and I am worried because I think there is a fundamental lack of leadership both off the field and on it.

Who is going to take us by the scruff of the neck? No-one as far as I can see.

Patrick Murphy, I totally agree with the points you raise. We are a club that continues to stand still on every front and have done for the best part of 30 years. Dinosaur mentality by dinosaur people running the club.

1. The winning side playing out of their skins,

PLUS,

2. The losing team playing badly.

It's a disgusting result, makes me ashamed to be a Toffeeman and has me again looking for joy elsewhere. Thank goodness I have a life beyond football.

Whilst I didn't expect us to tear up the league in Koeman's first season, nor did I expect us to be getting hammered by Chelsea, no matter how good they were. Can everyone now accept the team needs major change to become a force once again?

For me, Barry is finished and not just based on his performance in this game. He simply doesn't have the legs to compete when teams attack us at pace.

Jags has had his day too in my opinion; we lack pace with him and Williams together, maybe it's time to give the likes of Holgate an extended run? Missing Gueye obviously didn't help but surely we shouldn't be that reliant on one player?

Personally I would like to see some of the young players given more game time and I sincerely hope we dip deeply into the January transfer window.

We were lucky to get away with 5-0 and there's no doubt about it, Hazard was unstoppable while we struggled in every position.

I said weeks ago that the signings we made weren't good enough and anyone who thinks that we can progress with this shambles of a team and another 'suspect' manager should think again.

Being only 40 this is only the third time that Everton have taken a damn good thrashing on your birthday weekend, during your lifetime, but not the first time they have ruined your actual birthday.

On your 1st birthday, Everton beat Derby 1-0 away thanks to a Mike Lyons goal... and on your 12th they managed a draw at Hillsborough courtesy of a Trevor Steven penalty. But your 8th and 13th birthday weekends are best forgotten as Mr Rush ruined one of them and Aston Villa ruined the other in front of the nation on ITV.

Everton's last bonfire night victory was back in 1995 when Graham Stuart scored the only goal of the game at Goodison Park against Blackburn Rovers.

Young Tom Davies showed quite a few of them up... no, I think he showed all of them up. This is really a big, big wake-up call for the whole club and everyone in it, from top to bottom.

Surely in any such struggle, the new will win out against the old? The alternative being that we continue to endure more humiliating days in the coming weeks and months ahead.

He may well have a contacts book to die for and be rich enough to stand guarantor to the banks and BVI lenders but dreams that he will be our Abrimovich were always that: dreams.

You can be sure that the repayments, including interest, will remain the responsibility of Everton FC albeit from a vastly increased income.

Who said the 90s were bad?

why the cryptic bollox? If you've got something to say, say it.

BTW, that was Smithesque tonight. Shite.

Three backs does not work in the EPL against good teams with pace. Chelsea targeted the area occupied by Cleverley, knowing that Barry was too slow and Coleman would be too wide. Huge gaps left in that part of the field and no-one able to win the ball from Chelsea neutralized Oviedo and Coleman as offensive threats.

As for the backs, Funes Mori actually did well compared to the other two as he plays the 3 back set (until he was moved out wide because Koeman couldn't possibly take off Jags even though he was poor). Against a very good team, the defenders do not have time to think about the positioning, angles and the openings and where the players are as well as who is supporting whom. It is suicide to do it against Hazard, Pedro, Costa, and Moses, and the very good Chelsea midfield.

Still, one must appreciate the way Chelsea are playing and just how their manager has his players playing for each other (well, except Costa). Quite a scary team on the current run of form.

Things can only get better!!

It's not the first time you have raised questions about rumblings of disquiet in the corridors of power this season. As Daniel (129) has asked, it would be nice if you could expand on your post and give us a little insight as to how this disquiet is manifesting itself?

I'd guess from your previous post earlier this season that it has something to do with the abrasiveness of Mr Koeman?

That may well have little or nothing to do with tonight but we are a weak club with weak players whenever it counts. No guts, no imagination, no pride, no delivery.

At the beginning of pre-season, Koeman had the opportunity to get rid of players who had failed under Martinez, but they are still in the team and still failing.

Then there are today's tactics. Even Martinez was not that stupid to play a 5-1-1-2 formation that just invited Chelsea to attack. Even though 3 of the goals were let in by the goal-keeper. That's 5 goals he has let in in two Everton matches and 1 goal he should have also saved for Holland against France. So his position is untenable and he has to go.

The keeper? Or the manager? Or both? I bet the Stekelenburg hates West London as he was apparently pretty bad in a Fulham shirt during his time there.

Barry knows and tries but he 36 and can't be expected to do the donkey work for the list above. We are left with Gana as our sole experienced midfielder. Gibson is finished, Besic is finished, we need a 2014 McCarthy back, not the latest crab like, pseudo Gibson casualty version we've had for last 2 years.

We totally rely on Lukaku to score goals, forget the rest... Kone, Valencia, Niasse and Rodriquez etc – they'll never play for Everton.

Defensively our three centre-halves are too slow to be played together and will just drop back to limit space behind them, but then if they miss the tackle the opponent is within 15 yards of goal with a clear shot. You need Willams's or Jagielka's experience to control the formation, but against quick-thinking and moving forwards you need some youth, some speed at the back, which we haven't got. Funes Mori just looks completely lost, unsure of where to be, who to mark and how to cover... another £11m disaster from Martinez.

Let's not even mention goalkeepers as we haven't got one worth the name!

So, Mr Koeman, if you have the ability – and I'm not sure about you yet – show us how to completely rebuild a team over the next three or four windows, starting in January, as 80% of the players you've got now aren't good enough. Mid-table mediocrity at best.

Oh and my scotch has run out and I still feel the pain. Off to the offy....

Also, they are dyed-in-the-wool Evertonians, and I would have had no hard feelings if they had failed to take Everton to the next level.

You might want to reflect on those numbers! And the formation! Anybody missing?

Koeman most probably wanted to give the players he inherited a chance. They have had that chance and now we know who is not up to it.

The difference with us and Southampton is the players they sell go up in the world. Apart from Stones, the players we sell will not be going to the bigger clubs unless Lukaku, Coleman and Gueye are put up for sale!

We have been badly run since before and after the Kendall Mk 1 era. Just think of the joke players who have been paid from our well earned cash. You could make at least two if not three so-called teams from them.

We are a joke and have been since the mid 80s era ended – nearly 30 years. The Cup win in 1995 was great but even Martinez won the Cup. It's the League that counts and we are a million miles away from ever winning it again.

And yet I will keep following the Blues – that's the real tragedy.

I have heard from someone who knows an Everton player that the new people have not gone down well with certain established interests at the club, including some coaches. The criticism has been directed at the new regime (not particularly Koeman who seems to be caught in the middle), rather than the other way.

The criticism is on the basis that they are ignorant of football matters and interested only in those who suck up to them. It is second-hand and I am as suspicious as the next person of football rumour, so take what I say with caution.

Since I am a big critic of Kenwright, I am concerned that we may have ended up with the worst of all worlds.

Yes, managers have different abilities but, if your players are not good enough, you're screwed.

He rides along on the fact that he was a good player and of course he can't do no wrong. It can never be his fault – it is always someone else's fault. This is the same attitude as the players, they are always looking for someone else to produce something or create something and it's not them that's at fault – it's others.

And then it's just talk talk talk by players and manager. All mouth, no trousers. There is not a leader amongst them. Doesn't matter if we change manager or players until there is a change in attitude.

Don't get me wrong –I am right behind Koeman – but this result is a fucking disgrace. Get rid of the driftwood in January and the close-season and let's get this club back where it belongs.

And who sucked up to them? Players? Others?

And what is the result of sucking up? Selection decisions? Other decisions? Which other decisions?

This tells us nothing.

He decided to go toe-to-toe with Chelsea's set-up, which, given that they have, on average, better players than us when they are up for it, was nonsense.

Countering a back three, you have to hit the corners and the far flanks. Chelsea did this and Koeman did not change to pull the full backs back and the midfield into a four. The only answer to what was going on in the first 10 minutes.

Later changes were nonsense. Both full-backs were exposed time and time again. Not their fault, they were clearly playing forward under orders. Taking Oviedo off after his exposure and pushing Funes Mori to full-back after he displayed so clearly that he can't do it in the Norwich game was ridiculous.

Trying then to play 4-3-3, well, words fail me.

We gave away possession poorly for the first two goals but that was as much about a lack of options with the way that we were set up.

I said before that, for me, the jury is still out on Koeman. I saw nothing today to make me change my mind. If anything, a final judgement is closer.

Those on here saying that it will take another several transfer windows and loads of new, better players are kidding themselves. Good managers take what they have and shape it into the best it can be. Conte is doing this, admittedly with players who are on average better; Koeman had done no more than organise a defence after the first two games of experimentation with 3 at the back.

After 45 years of support, I have now given up hope we will ever be successful. We remind me of an old hick town in USA from the gold rush that has been abandoned and left to ruin with only the old days and former glories to look back on.

ps: We must be the slowest team in the league, passes hardly zip around the pitch do they? I'm disillusioned and embarrassed at that lack of effort tonight... I need another gin (bottle, that is).

I pointed out that our relatively easy fixture list at the start of the season could see us near the top as Autumn proceeded and so I wasn't too surprised (or over-optimistic) that we had a good run. However, our League Cup exit disappointed (as it did in Martinez's first season), and then a disappointing run against average opposition (losing to Burnley for Pete's sake), a very undeserved draw we scraped from Man City and a rather uninspired home win against the Hammers – was nothing that put Koeman's new broom above what Moyes or Martinez have achieved much of the time.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, Chelsea away was a real test of where we stand in the EPL standings – and boy did we find that out the hard way! Maybe it hurts more, because the RS have finally got a manager who does make the difference with a squad of a quality not that dissimilar to ours in my view.

So, Koeman is not the Messiah. We are not his short cut to the Barca job (that story actually quite annoyed me). However, I refuse to enter rant mode. He's not a naughty boy either.

He and we now have it confirmed what an average squad we have (as his negative team set-up today suggests) and even he can't seem to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear like Klopp might just be doing. We are in for the long haul – as already outlined by others on TW.

So, let's forget about top 4 – keep our most optimistic view that the Europa League might just be within our grasp if other teams implode – and at least be grateful that relegation isn't on the agenda this season. However, another year without success... another long-term plan we need to accept... and a hope that by 2017 a few more of the pieces in the jigsaw are in place. Just a shame it's such a bleeding unfinished puzzle, and every few years we have some clown who throws the pieces in the air!

My first season going to Goodison Park was 1969-70, so maybe I was spoilt! I thought, as I punched the air at Wembley in 1984, that such a gap between trophies was unacceptable, and despite those great years the '80s (although not without some disappointments) and even that unexpected FA Cup win in the '90s, I genuinely fear I will shuffle off this mortal coil without seeing us win another thing!!! I fear for you youngsters who might be facing many more decades of this! Still, once a Blue... .

It feels like we only lost 4-0 after reading that post, it cheered me up so much. Great :D Can anyone give me a lift to 3...? Anyone?

These are the exact tactics that Moyes was ripped apart for. You don't have to verbally say "knife to a gun fight"; today, Koeman clearly set us out to do nothing but try to defend. Problem with that is, the other team can see that and will just focus all their energy on attacking, knowing they don't have to track back or stay alert. It was just going to be Chelsea against our Swiss cheese bus for 90 minutes.

At least it's now clear that when we play Man City, Chelsea, Spurs, Arsenal, Man Utd, Liverpool and probably even Leicester that there's no point watching. Koeman will just set us out with a bunch of defensive players. And we wonder why Lukaku will want to move to a bigger club. Totally pathetic.

I would have thought in this day and age that they would fly down to London, mind you the way they performed this evening perhaps the train broke down and they had to walk most of the way.

Gagging on my words, but bloody zany Klopp has got them functioning. God, just imagine what they'll be like when Ings is fit again!!! Sorry, Damian... didn't mean that last bit!

It was Unsworth who particularly brought this fact to the public. It will be interesting whether after today and how badly his established players let him down – Williams, Jagielka, Barry, Cleverley, Coleman, Barkley – will Koeman blood one or or two youngsters in the next few games?

If you read Koeman's comments in full, you will see that he sent his players out onto the pitch believing that they could match Chelsea's industry, if not their creativity – how delusional was he for showing such faith in his players? The fact that his players performed so abjectly is once again a case of the tail wagging the dog and every Everton manager for the last five or six years has had the same problem at some point during any given season.

Let's for arguments sake say that Koeman was to leave Goodison before the end of this International break, how would that help us to gain better performances from the same bunch of lily-livered players who do just enough to win just enough matches during a season to keep the crowd from going over the edge? When did this lot last produce a full-on 90-minute performance against any team in any competition under any manager? Norwich at home in the last game of the season? Perhaps... but there was nothing riding on that match as the Canaries had already been doomed to relegation.

When the chips are down and there is something tangible to play for, this lot have crumbled faster than a Crawford's cracker under a double-decker bus! Win today and suddenly they are thrust into the spotlight as potential Champions League contenders... but no, that isn't on their agenda; they are far happier to muddle around in mid-table until February or March, put a bit of a spurt on and add a few points on the board before sickeningly screwing up at the likes of Southampton or Fulham or some other non-major venue and then spending the summer telling us all that 'if only' and how they will try their best the following season.

It's even worse than that these days as they don't even have the energy to put on a spurt at any point in the season unless suddenly they become aware that the "R" word is being mentioned and their cosy life might come to an abrupt end.

If somebody could promise me that Unsworth, Royle and Ferguson could change that mentality overnight, I'd drive Koeman to the Airport myself tomorrow. But those three have the same chance as any other manager of altering things in such a short space of time. Until the leadership at the club changes to a more football-focussed one, the players at the club will continue to dictate exactly how and when they apply themselves, and we as fans will just have to grin and bear it – because the manager can be replaced at a 'reasonable' cost at any time... the players know that they can't be.

Thanks, Tony. But I'm still in the dark as to what is causing what. So Moshiri and his people are some sort of problem, as perceived by Unsworth (and the other coaching staff? including Koeman?

What does Unsworth want to do that Moshiri etc won't allow him?

What is meant by "Koeman is not a natural fit with Kenwright's culture"?

Is Kenwright in conflict with Moshiri?

How does this impact on performances on the pitch, if at all?

All very cryptic. And making no sense to me.

That's the good news... the bad news is we were diabolical and Koeman is looking nothing like the Messiah.

Lukaku scores goals. But Mirallas, Deulofeu, Bolasie do not set the world alight, nor Lennon (for all I admire his industry). And Ross's technical ability rarely translates into smart decision-making. So creatively we have next to zilch (Barry and Gana I both like, and prompt going forward as best they can). Thank god for Lukaku's goals.

Defensively, I admire what Barry has brought to us but, in a fast game over 90 minutes, the game can pass him by. Cleverley works hard but is a journeyman. Gana is something of a gem defensively. The back 5 including the keeper are inconsistent, individually and as a unit.

A few young lads are starting to challenge for places but as yet are not quite there.

In sum, one goalscorer; one strong midfielder defender, often two; a defence that might or might not turn up on the day.

And some say we shouldn't talk about transfer windows.

Koeman needs 10 new players that are his buys to make a squad. I'd sell all the other outfielders who have been regular, so not Davies, Holgate etc.

If we are 10 players short of a decent team, then Bolasie didn't have much to overcome when he played against us!

I feel poo tonight. And Liverpool likely to do the business tomorrow.

The idea of shipping them out is ludicrous so I hope that Koeman can find a formation that will keep us top half and rebuild. Our tactics suggest to me that Koeman lacks belief in his team and the players respond accordingly. Today could have been the heaviest defeat in our history. We were spineless.

All I'm seeing at the moment is various formation changes set up to defend. What is his attacking philosophy?

We seem to be a pressing team that doesn't actually press the opposition to any serious degree. Earlier in the season he said we weren't fit enough... well, what is it now?

I know players shouldn't need motivating but Koeman doesn't seem able to get these fuckers up for anything.

What the other top 5 teams also have are experienced midfielders who can control a game; we do not have, and have not attempted to get either.

Mr Koeman says we can take some positives from this game – the only positive I can see is he will have a mop of white hair by Christmas with a haunted look on his face.

Yes, Chelsea played exceptionally well today but – correct me if I am wrong – did we not have 11 full internationals out there today who must have been coached from early ages? To play 90+ minutes and have 1 attempt at goal is a disgrace to a team of Premier League professionals.

I'm only guessing but I would think that Koeman is Moshiri's man as Bill would never have appointed somebody that is so experienced as an International player and club manager. Add to that, Koeman doesn't seem to be the type of person that would welcome his Chairman ringing him out of hours to have cosy chats about his salad days in the Boys Pen.

Unsworth may have a problem trying to convince his charges that the door to the first-team is truly ajar, or that it will ever be whilst Koeman is the manager at the club, and therefore he himself will be less motivated to push his boys on to better things. Then there are those others at the club whose positions of power have been fortified when many believed they would have been looking for positions from outside of the club by this point in time.

It is never a good thing to have two masters – no matter what industry you are in... but, in the cut-throat world of Professional football, it could prove disastrous for all parties.

Koeman is starting to sound like Roberto, in the way he is looking at the cheque book as being the solution to his problems and issues in the squad. I happen to believe that both managers are/were right; however, I didn't and wouldn't have trusted Roberto to spend it wisely and I'm not sure that Koeman can be trusted either. But the person I don't trust the most is unlikely to sanction a spending spree as he was so used to 'his' manager getting by and making the best of what little he had available.

We all knew it was going to be a bumpy ride this season, but what we don't need or want to see is the team being undermined by those in positions of power fighting their own corner for their own best interests rather than the best interests of Everton Football Club.

Koeman may prove to be the wrong man at the wrong time and I'm a little concerned that he thinks (or is reported to believe) that the ostracised German lad is a solution to some of our problems. And i'm more concerned to read that he hadn't seen Chelsea live this season – isn't that part of his job, to assess the opposition, or does he delegate that to others too?

There will be platitudinous drivel from some mouthpieces, up to the next game, telling us how it hurts them and how they can't wait to put it right, but they won't mean it.

We have allowed frauds and mediocrities to reign over us for far too long, and there are those who are still eager to tell us how well we have been served by Bill and Bob etc., and what a great job we do by way of charity things (which make us all feel warm) – and don't mind too much what happens on the pitch. No wonder we fuck it up when we try to better ourselves.

There have been several problems for ages, particularly lack of leadership and weak mentality; however, the biggest are slow build-up & lack of creativity in midfield.

Barkley is supposed to provide this but is clueless – lazy, goes hiding and has no football brain. His performance against West Ham was way over-hyped – yes, it was his best in ages, but that says very little.

Koeman has a big job on and a lot of us knew that before Martinez was fired.

Fact is, our squad depends on 30% who are never fit and not worth a place, piss-poor management, and we were beat today before we got on the park. Chelsea played well but we were never there.

Time waits for no-one, but there's at least six players today, old and young, whom need to be off-loaded. The derby looms, this ain't gonna change over night.

Worst away showing in years... worse than Stoke away 2 years ago and worse over all for us as I can see there was zilch fight and hunger and it was pathetic that they played with no fight...

Scary days ahead... and forget the Europa League. Deluded? If this result doesn't get any impact, then it's time to emigrate...

Despite the modern era, one thing has never changed; football is won and lost in midfield. It's the engine. If the engine doesn't function, the car isn't going anywhere.

Our midfield let us down today. It didn't protect the defence and it didn't supply the forwards. It didn't show up.

All compounded by a pretty fantastic performance by the opposition.

Extremely bad day at the office. Let's move on.

Some quirk in the sound on my feed made any contact with the ball, sound like a bass player working away away in the back of a track Thus, as I was half asleep (long story) and the eyes were drooping, all I could hear was Chelsea (well it wasn't going to be us was it) pinging it about like the Intro and the Outro to Nancy Sinatra's; 'These boots are made for walking'

Boy, did they ever 'walk all over us' dum, dum, dum, dum, dum, dum – right up the wing at one stage in five or six little triangles.

When the 4th went in, I threw my hands in the air, said to myself – you can't play against that and turned over to watch (fall asleep to) the cricket... anything to get rid of that fucker on the bass.

Everton? lucky to get Nil.

Meanwhile, this game showed just how far away we are from being like the words above, let alone being a top 4 side. The players are losers, nothing less: losing mentality, lack of effort, and just plain shite.

Stekelenburg thinks he is all Billy Big Bollocks after Man City, yet since then, 2 games, 7 goals conceded, 4 of them he is to blame. We have been crying out for a top keeper for the past 3 years and, surprise, surprise... fucking mediocrity again.

I would get shut of Coleman: poor, slows things down and just pure bone-idol. The more I watch him, the more I feel for Holgate.

Jagielka is finished, simple as. On that note, never ever a captain. Funes Mori – not a left-back. Oviedo, Cleverley, Gibson, Kone, Niasse and Mirallas all need to just fuck of elsewhere, either injury-prone or not good enough.

Gueye is massive for us, which proved tonight, Barry needs a rest, but give Davies a go – the lad looks a smart player.

Bolasie needs to realise it's straight forward direct first, showboating second. Barkley has the football brain of a 16-year-old. I look at Kante and Gueye who are half the size of Barkley yet get stuck in like there is no tomorrow, When was the last time Barkley either won a 50/50 or threw a slide tackle in?

Lukaku scores goals, fuck knows where we would be without them, but his work rate is inconsistent; one week he is a world beater, the next he is as useless as a glass hammer.

It will take time of course for Koeman, but not only do we have to strengthen in January just because of the shite we have now, but Gueye and Bolasie are off to the AFCON, so we need about 5/6 players in. If Moshiri means business then he starts in January.

If Elstone and Kenwright are our Negotiation team, then... Fuck!!
You can talk about new stadium all you want, but the mentality of players has to change out of nothing or the simple fuck off and find hard workers.

I think it's the problem that comes with 20 years or more of mismanagement. There hasn't been the drive, or possibly financial wherewithal, to gradually find players who are an improvement on those we have and those who are waning through age. And of course, once we find someone of world class, we have to sell supposedly to keep going financially.

With a regular change or addition to the playing staff, and dare we say job security, there is usually an increase in effort, or backbone if you prefer, and the same by the appointment of new coaching staff. Harry Catterick, as with most top managers, was a master at it.

The reason Southampton can bounce back quickly after selling the best players and losing two top managers is because the club is well run; likewise our neighbours, who have had an incredible level of consistency since the early sixties.

We have been a very badly run club for donkey's years. The expectations have been low for many years, resulting in mediocrity. Everton don't deserve the massive loyal support that they have. There needs to be a huge clear out starting with Bill Kenwright.

Everton had a complete prat in charge and shit players. They still have shit players. It has taken 15 years of investment to put Chelsea in a position to perform like that.

Kenwright OUT.

I might be reading in to this too much but it hardly sounds like he's bought in to the club in a way we like our managers to.

You have to be realistic to be an Evertonian. Most of us knew the squad needed a major overhaul and we hoped Moshiri's money would start that process. It didn't but we made a bright start so again we let ourselves get carried away. However, with the squad we have, we should not be surprised that we are only a mid-table team at best.

You need better quality players to improve and we need lots of them. Don't forget many on here supported the debate that we didn't need Joe Hart. Wake-up call, Everton – we do need much better players than we currently have.

Whilst Kenwright and many of his old regime remain, I do not see things improving drastically in the near future.

That level of performance has been coming for a while because, let's face it, we've been poor all season and no-one on here can say there's been one game so far where we've played well.

I felt embarrased watching that And Paul Scholes summed it up when he said we looked like an old team. And how right was that? Jagielka, Williams, Oviedo, Coleman and Barry looked like they were wading through treacle.

As for the likes of Bolasie, Barkley and Cleverley... words fail me. They are just not good enough to play at this level.

A sad night and only one man to blame for it. The manager. And God I thought Mike Walker was bad... Everton – you knock me sick.

We need to spend a mountain of money to be competitive at the top of the table. Will Moshiri allow us to do just that or not? A new ground won't be needed if we are rubbish on the field, I know where I want the money spent, that is if there is any!

We are still bang average – like we have been for far too long. Changing managers is not the answer, 20-plus years of make do and mend on the playing field and winning nothing tells the story.

We won't be in Europe next season so Lukaku will be off and the whole squad will need to be rebuilt with that money and whatever money Moshiri puts up. The good news is that Koeman had a good window in the summer and hopefully a few more good signings by him and Walsh will add some quality.

We all have been saying for years that our squad is nearly all dead wood; has-beens, crocks, never-will-bes, nearly-men like Mirallas and Cleverley, etc. Other than Lukaku, how many Everton players would get in a top six side?

Koeman and Walsh have a huge job over the next two or three years, but I think they will come good. At any rate, I can't think of anyone else I would rather have. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Who would I have in the team at this present time? Ross Barkley or Leon Osman? Osman every day of the week. Bring him back till at least January. I would rather see Osman coming off the bench instead of Mirallas.

Ronald Koeman has been manager for 5 minutes! So to all of you doom mongers, for God's sake get things into perspective and give him time!!

Yes, the team's performance was a disgrace at Chelsea; yes, the manager's tactics failed. This happens in football, Take the positive from it. It should be a massive wake-up call to all and lessons must be learned. Changes must be made.

Leicester City were considered relegation candidates last season, yet went on to be Champions, not by ability alone, but by work ethic, team spirit and belief in themselves, as their collective confidence grew over the season. Money cannot buy those virtues. And for all of Claudio Ranieri's undoubted contribution, it is the player's sole responsibility to consistently perform to the best of their ability.

Perhaps now is the time for the manager to seriously give youth its chance to shine. I like the look of Tom Davies and he is not the only unearthed gem in the U23s. If the manager decides to embark on such a route, then the fans need to be patient not only with the progress of any youngsters coming into the team, but also the manager for taking the risk.

Frankly, given that even our 'new-found wealth' would only buy more of the average type of player already on the payroll, I believe it is worth taking that chance.

But it was interesting to compare his game with Costa, and the problem is that we don't play to his strengths. Run the tape again (that's if you haven't erased it) and see how many times Costa received a 40-yard hoof from the back with his back to goal; which is what Lukaku was feeding off.

Instead, he was getting the ball into space or over the shoulder so he could run at defenders which is Lukaku's strength.

And as for Ross, if you compare his game with Hazard or Pedro – well, there is no comparison. If Ross has a future in the side, I would put him alongside Gana, because his game is get the ball, run 5 yards, check, lay it off, not get the ball, turn the opposition with a great piece of skill, run at players and storm into the box. It's just not his game even though we all believed. It was.

One final point: it looks like Koeman doesn't fancy Deulofeu. A great pity and yet another of our 'super 4' young'uns that hasn't lived up to the initial promise.

Anyone with any eyes to see, and has viewed Everton close up for any length of time, knows that, despite all the lazy journalism, Everton is not a well-run club and has not been for many years. They also know that this group of players (despite a bit of a sticking plaster applied in August) is not underachieving, but has achieved exactly what it is capable of achieving – mediocrity.

It should be unsurprising that a club that is run in a mediocre manner produces mediocre teams. Last night revealed the gulf that exists between where we are and where we aspire to be.

Any progress made under Koeman is more to do with fitness, organisation, tighter defensive organisation(!) and solidity(!!) than anything else, with a continued reliance on Rom to keep scoring. All of this unraveled last night.

But here's the thing. Koeman knows this, Walsh knows this, Moshiri knows this, and we know this. But this is not a quick fix. Years of negligence and complacency cannot be sorted overnight.

I only have hope that this current regime, hopefully shorn of the main culprits soon, tackle this with a will starting on the field in January, and off the field as soon as possible.

As horrible as last night was, I have had to remind myself that I have seen far better Everton teams than this one handed their arse on a plate. The trick is to make it an isolated occurrence.

Jagielka – surely the Chinese would give us good money for a current England International or the lure of a last big pay day may be enough to entice him away. He's a liability now. I feel his presence restrains Williams's natural leadership. I'd much rather see Holgate or Funes Mori alongside Williams and bring in a top notch defender in January.

Coleman – if Manchester United are that keen to buy him, sell. We have a few decent youngsters who would give their all in the right-back/wing-back slot, every game. His form has become erratic at best since life as a family man seemingly became more important to him.

Bolasie – simply needs a good slap... often.

The team is in desperate need of changes and re-structuring but when will this happen – given what is happening off the pitch, with Kenwright still running the show like one of his desperate productions that we all thought had closed years ago?

If he didn't know it before, Koeman now knows the scale of the rebuilding task – quality, attitude, work rate, you name it. I agree with those who have pinpointed midfield (mobility, creativity) as the heart of our longer term problems.

We have to give Koeman and Walsh time to rebuild (and the owners have to supply the resources). I won't say I'm confident that they will do it - as disappointment always looms round the corner for an Evertonian) – but I thinks it's more feasible than panic measures and total negativity.

And most of all (2) the young lad who, when we were 4-0 down, went to the front of the upper shed, faced the distraught fans and tried to get them to sing and show support for the team he loved – a real Evertonian.

We do not have those polished players hiding in our U23s so just throwing our hands up and relying on Davies, Walsh, Dowell, Holgate, Kenny, Connolly, Feeney to somehow gather enough points to keep us up while they learn their trade is no answer. I like these players too but we have to be fair to them.

It's forgiveable so many of us thought Koeman walking through the door turned us into Cinderella overnight. Now, we need to show some backbone as supporters and not burst into tears at every false step on the road to the Champions League. Give Koeman and Walsh five minutes before handing them their coats.

Many many times I've said on different forums the majority of these players don't give a shite. The PR department gives them some rallying words from time to time but they don't / won't practice what they preach.

These same players showed Martinez who is in charge and they are doing the same with Koeman. He can bang the drum all he like but as soon as Jagielka, Lukaku, Mirallas and a few others cross the white line, they are in charge.

Jagielka is not captain material. Remember the penalty incident versus West Ham? He was tying his laces when all hell was breaking loose.

I commend this club for their Charity work in the community but surely we don't have to be so fucking charitable on the pitch.

Oh for someone withe the winning / competing mentality on the pitch of a Roy Keane.

For me this was an accident waiting to happen.

I am concerned that a one time brilliant player and successful manager does not seem to have fired up the rather lethargic and somewhat apathetic attitude which permeates amongst players and the management at our club.

Jags says the players are scared of RK. All I can say they don't play like they are. Barclay is a good example.

I didn't expect RK to work miracles right away but he of all people must have been aware what surgery the club needed from the start . We sold JS and bought 4 players but no extra cash was spent on improving the squad.

We have an ageing team. The back 4 . Jags and Baines are showing their age and now getting too many injuries. Coleman can't read the game , gets caught out of position through lack of discipline. I much prefer a traditional full back who can tackle hard and lets the opposition know they are around . The less said about Oviedo the better .

Then there is there is less than holy trinity of Barkley, Mirallas and Del Boy

Ross is now 21 and not living up to earlier expectations ( maybe he is not as good as people once said) At 21 Rooney was more than holding his own in the PL and Eng.

For me Ross does not score enough goals and is rarely seen in or around the penalty area. He can't tackle and loses the ball too often. Again like Coleman he needs to throw his weight around. Never seems to have the same enthusiasm as Rooney who was always screaming for the ball.

Del Boy and Mirallas are similar, headless chickens , rarely score goals and don't hurt the opposition. Both lose possession too easily and fail to score even when presented with the odd golden opportunity. Barca don't let good players go.

Barry I admire he is my type of player - intelligent - tough and gives his all. If Barry doesn't play well the team struggles.

Kone - useless and should be taken to court under the trades description act.

Gibson - age means he is injury prone

McCarthy - now struggling as a result of all the running he did for RM over 3 years.

Besic - spent more time in the treatment room than on the pitch - injury prone.

A lot of fuss is made of David Unsworth and the under 23s In fact they get just as much publicity as the first team these days.

I don't understand because if these players are as as good as the hype why aren't they in the first team. Only Barkley and Tom Davies are squad players . The other promising players go out on lone.

In Jan we need to get shut of 7 players and buy big - 6 players of quality . RK says he needs two years to get the team he wants. However if he doesn't get us in the top 6 this season players will not come to the club.

In my opinion he has not got two years to make his mark. The PL is now very competitive and this season there are about 12 teams competing for top 6 places. If we are not amongst them it will be difficult to motivate the fans or players to join us. The club needs a sense of urgency otherwise we will fall behind. Just witness the shambles of getting a new stadium and decent players to join the club

Despite all this I have confidence in RK even though it is 9 yrs since he gained a major league championship as manager.

Ever hopeful COYB

This particular team is mostly deceased and the only reason we got nil was because we get nil for turning up, and giving the appearance of wanting to play. Several players yesterday, mostly looked like they didn't care – really worrying that – just ask Mourinho. Some players it appears have made up their minds that Koeman will be offloading them asap.

As a result we have a team split into three camps. Koemans' buys, those who believe they are on their way (eg, Jags, Robles, McCarthy, Lennon), and finally those who don't give a toss either way (Mirallas, Kone, Deulofeu). Until Koeman can put his 11 on the pitch, I can't see things getting better any time soon.

If Koeman gets us in the top 10, he will have done well, given the state of the club he and Moshiri inherited. If this is a new dawn then only money, real money will convince me a new dawn is possible; I remain to be convinced.

It seems to me that there is a fear about the club, an inferiority, an acceptance of the mediocre. I believe Koeman is a winner but I fear that he has no confidence in his players. They are poor, really poor. There was not an angry man among them yesterday and we so much need a man for whom that performance would have cut to the core.

Over the next day or two, we will have a few platitudes from one of the spineless specimens who shamed us but really, they should just shut the fuck up and find a back bone.

So far, I'm sure the players are fitter, but what is he actually bringing?? We don't seem to be a pressing team, nor possession, nor attacking, nor defensive. We lead the Premier League in one stat – most long balls, so is that it?? Are we a "hoof the ball to the big man up front" team again? If so, we could have got a much cheaper version of Koeman.

Question: If we have all this money, why did we buy a keeper for £1 million?

Koeman wants us to be a pressing team, he has stated this, but the pressing starts at the front and with Mirallas, Barkley, Lukaku and Bolasie doing the pressing and trying to win the ball, it isn't working because they just don't have the heart or desire to consistently work for the ball. They did last week v WHU and we did better than the last few weeks but the players have to do it every week and they can't or won't.

When they receive the ball from defence or midfield, they just can't hold the ball – even for a few seconds to give it to supporting players, Lukaku is the worst culprit in this, he is like a plnball machine, the ball nine times out of ten just bounces off him and puts the opposition on the attack.

Until they improve, and I don't hold much hope of that, we will continue to go one step forward and two steps back.

Mark, it's unwise to let the opposition know what you're thinking, so I suspect his approach is not to reveal his hand to anybody – possibly not even to our own players, judging by yesterday!

Re our squad being split into 3 "Camps" but not assigning Barkley into any!

May I suggest Colomendy.

The team had a full week to prepare, get super-fit, watch all the videos of how they operate, where the danger will come from, etc... and yet, we sent out an ageing team who had theirr legs run off them.

What's the point of having a well run Academy if some of these lads aren't given a chance? We are running a retirement home instead of a football club, and Mr Koeman must take full responsibility.

I can't wait for the January transfer window to open. I said at the beginning of the season, if we can finish in the top 10, I would be made up.

There is such a huge gap between us and the best teams in the country. We have no Cup games to distract us, so there are no excuses. Fingers crossed for the future.

However, with a new man at the helm why did we allow Galloway, Tarashaj and even Garbutt out on loan knowing that we could not recall them? Oh, yeah, because we don't see them in training and they need the experience.

Question; What comes to mind with virtually all of the most successful teams in British football?

Answer; A consistently brilliant keeper. Banks (England), Shilton (Nottingham Forest), Southall (Everton), Schmeichel (Man Utd), Cech (Chelsea), to name but a few. A great keeper is the platform to build from. Ramsey, Clough, Kendall, Ferguson, Mourinho, were all aware of that fact.

I had Stekelenburg at fault for the first 2 goals at Chelsea and after that heads visibly went down. We as good as surrendered, until Davies came on. No team can ever play with confidence, if there is no faith in the keeper. The all-conquering Everton side of the eighties owe so much to the performances of Neville Southall.

So, come January, a world class keeper, for however much it costs, please, Ronald. Hopefully, Barry's legs alongside Gueye, will last long enough to pass his experience on to any youngsters who might come in through the ranks. I would pursue Rooney for the same reason.

Hopefully, Lukaku also, will stay long enough for us to make progress and gain the honours he seeks. I would happily sell the rest of them, perhaps with the exception of Coleman, whose present form lapse is hopefully only temporary.

Be brave, Mr Koeman, give youth a chance! To the doubters, remember the illustrious words of wisdom spoken by 'expert pundit' Alan Hansen when Man Utd were struggling and Alex Ferguson first introduced Giggs, Beckham, Neville, Scholes, Butt etc into their team "You'll win nothing with kids!" The rest is history.

Chelsea are in very good form and we got what deserved – bugger all.

At least the RS are struggling as well... oh, wait.

Bizarre.

I think we are now in the position (7th) were I expect us to be at the end of the season, unless Koeman manages to bring in some good goalscoring players in January which I doubt he will get.

Some facts: We have 5 wins (yes against teams from bottom half of the table). We have 3 losses, all away from home, 1 against possible Champions and 2 against lesser teams. We have 3 draws, one away to possible champions Man City, one home to Spurs and one against Palace.

After 11 games, we sit level on points with Man Utd who have spent millions on a new proven manager and the most expensive player in the world.

I'm not saying we shouldn't be aiming higher and not be plucky old Everton but I think we are experiencing a bit of realism here as is our new manager that we need to add a good few new players who are willing to listen and work hard for the manager. It looks like too many of the current squad are not going to listen to him or rise to the occasion.

In my eyes, if we can keep Rom fit and scoring goals and we get in a few more to share the goals around, then we're battling with Spurs and Man Utd for 5th, 6th & 7th place. Hopefully next season, Moshiri's millions will push our ambitions into the top 4.