Yet More Derby Misery

It's so boring but the keeper should be 3 yards off his line not 6/7.

There is something grotesquely strange about the derby games in my lifetime; the first one I really remember (wasn't there, think it was Maine Rd) was the Semi-Final where we were leading, then Labone had to go off at half time, and the inevitable happened.

I was in the Anny Rd I think it was '75, and the very last minute, the ball comes over and finds probably the Everton player in our post war history 99% of us would pick to be one on one with Clemence, but, for some inexplicable reason, Latchford looks to the linesman in shock at not being flagged offside, then tamely taps the ball into the red goalie's grateful arms.

Then it's the Alan handball at Wembley, followed by us losing the worlds greatest keeper and being pipped to the double by 'them'. Since then there's been Gerrards attempt to amputate Gary Naysmith's leg without even a free kick to us; Kuyt leaving Neville for dead, Lescott being given a Judo lesson by Carragher, Rodwell sent off for glaring at Suarez, and then tonight, with our whole game ruined by McCarthy having to go off, and a scuffed shot defying the laws of Physics and bouncing straight back to a Red Shite for a tap in.

I really do believe that Shankly, Paisley etc all made a pact with Satan, and swung the rules of probability in their favour: surely to fuck they've had at least 90% of the luck and decisions over the last 40 years? Surely it must be our turn soon...

Good write up, Paul, and I agree with what you are saying.

James going off (and I'm his biggest critic) was a turning point. Yes he can't make a forward pass but our midfield has looked much more solid with him and Gueye able to keep pace with the play. I'm afraid Barry is looking again, like his 2nd season, way past the pace of the Premier League.

It is crying out for Davies to be given a go with a BIG "if only" about Besic.

Barkley has proved countless times he is no Number 10 and this season I'm starting to get on his back too. He was deplorable last night. When is the real Ross Barkley going to stand up? My feeling is when he is given the Number 8 role, but no manager seems to trust him.

Im expecting Koeman to want to make some major changes come January, which will be a pity for Davies and Walsh...

Thanks, Paul. Always look forward to your reports.

I've said before that Foxtel in Australia losing the rights to the EPL has actually been a blessing this season. Instead I got to watch Liverpool TV and Coutinho wandering around some park in Liverpool with his wife and dogs. Probably better viewing than the match itself.

It's just horrible. So sorry for those of you who were present at the match.

It doesn't seem to matter about the venue, form, different managers, the number of scallies or foreign players on either team. It is all immaterial. The result is always the same.

Paul, Thank you for your fine report.

Andy (4) I am in the same boat as you and mad as hell over Optus obtaining TV rights in Oz. At 4am here in West Oz my ear was glued to commentary by a couple of biased ex RS players. At the same time I was keeping tabs on the ToffeeWeb live forum which I might add was no less biased than the other mob.

As the game wore on I increasingly had that too familiar depressing sense of inevitable defeat and so it came about.

That long list of derby defeats are not the result of pacts with the devil, bad luck or poor refereeing and to use such things as some do is rubbish and a cop out.

Baines MotM? Wow – I thought he was absolutely dreadful for the whole of the 2nd half... I didn't even notice where he was playing – it certainly wasn't left back. He kept wandering into the middle, leaving Lennon exposed on the left, and they played down there for most of that half.

I cannot understand how Milner was never attacked by (well) anyone.

Personally , I've had enough of several players who need shipping out for different and varying reasons; it would not bother me if 8 or 9 players were sold today.

Grim, grim night... made grimmer by the behaviour of their fans. It was it mentioned on TV – invasions, fan stopping the game and flares. Mmmm.

Either Koeman is not up to the job or he is biding his time until he can clear out and bring in... only time will tell – but it's a difficult wait.

Another blue down under here. I got shut of Foxtel and have no intention of subscribing to rip-off Optus.

I went to bed hoping but not really believing in getting that elusive win against THEM. I woke up early, first thing on my mind was shall I give my missus a knowing cuddle, I might just get lucky... Well, I did, so that took the sting out of the usual headline on TW.

In my lifetime as a blue, I am grateful that I witnessed the great sides of the Kendall area. I even knew we would beat Manchester United in the FA Cup Final with Big Joe's Dogs of War team. But for the same gut instinct I can't see me living long enough to ever see us back up there and not under the shadow of Liverpool.

Koeman needs to begin with strengthening the spine of the side and then go from there. We need a new keeper, centre-half and two midfielders. Personally I would be looking to bring in Joe Hart, Virgil Van Dyk, Gylfi Sigurdsson and Morgan Schneiderlin. Listen to offers for all other players in the squad barring Coleman, Gueye and the young kids.

It's fair to say that the Merseyside derby is the most predictable one on the planet.

Here are some damning facts: We have not won in 13 league and cup derbies now. We haven't won at Anfield since 1999. We haven't won the second derby in a season since 1988 when Wayne Clarke scored in a 1-0 win at Goodison and we have not scored 4 against them in 90 minutes (the 4-4 in 1991 was after extra time) since the 1960s.

So anybody who thinks we can win the next derby later this season needs to book a good psychiatrist.

Fair point, Colin, and I think the patience and purgatory all Evertonians have endured since the last time we won the Championship along with the permafrost we show in every Derby in recent times especially at their place, does make me think if there is some curse on us? No complaints about losing as they wanted it, unlike the sluggish, passionless crap we saw in the second half.

I think Ross, needs to find himself and may be a loan deal, could be his last means of showing he has a future at EFC, but it seems the next transfer and next summer is key. Another season written off, and the Derby has sadly become just another default right off.

Never known so many pissed off people, uncanny how the club can so consistently kick you in the tenth year after year. I'm not expecting much and in terms of any positives like a new ground, I'll be taking it with a big pinch of salt.

We live in hope, and life is passing us by, when will we next win a trophy?

Pretty accurate report, Paul. Your thoughts about the Barkley free kick mirrored my own. It was just about our only opportunity to get the ball into the box in the final minutes and he wasted it.

I thought Coleman was our man of the match. Baines did not do a lot wrong but he needed to get closer to Sturridge to prevent the shot.

As regards the general performance, a lot of us said we would not be able to maintain the early effort. That proved to be the case. The longer the first half went, the more our energy levels dropped and, with the injury to McCarthy, the second half was fairly predictable.

It is all about opinion, Paul, but only a 6 for Gueye? I thought he was easily our best player.

Coleman and Gueye both worthy of higher marks. Barry well off the pace. Ross? Continues to infuriate and disappoint.

We need seven or eight players, we are that far behind Liverpool and the other top six teams. But let's give Koeman some time and by that I mean three years.

There were people calling for his head last night! We all know he inherited a bag of shite when Bobby left and there is much work to be done. Roll on the transfer window.

Baines 8?! He allowed Sturridge to scamper across to fire off a shot.

Gueye 6?! Man of the Match by a mile!!!

Lukaku 7? 45% pass completion. Don't talk about isolation – talk about the numerous times he gave the ball away. He put us under so much pressure, it was a joke. He worked harder and was good in the air that's it.

Valencia, intercepted and tackled at a level similar to Gana Gueye. Missed him when he went off the pitch. Calvert-Lewin was a poor sub.

How Baines was named Everton's man of the match fails to explain the importance of Lennon playing as a second left back for most of the match. Both players rarely got forward because of coping with Clyne. Liverpool's new twinkled toed 'Bobby dazzler.'

Congratulations on the new family arrival, Paul, if you have any influence spare the young 'un the pain of following Everton.

Quite frankly, that shower do not deserve to have fans – they should play in front of an empty stadium after the pitiful predictable pathetic display last night.

To go 6 years and counting without beating them is ridiculous and downright embarrassing... you would think it was the '70s again.

Same old story, we are a good team but not quite good enough. We are also on a very poor run, down to 9th place now with the Arsenal win our only bright light recently.

I also don't attach blame to Robles – he came out to narrow the angle made himself big expecting a screamer of a shot only for the scuffed shot to wrong foot him slightly and followed a line where any goalie would struggle to reach.

If any one was to blame for the goal, it was our defenders who where to slow to react, plus we had gone into our stand-off and drop-back mode which only brings us trouble.

Its very clear that we are short of 3 or 4 special players who can produce that bit of magic to win you games, sometimes ones where you don't deserve the win. Until we get those class of players we wont make the breakthrough to seriously challenge for the League title; we are in the same sort of position that we've been in for the 20 years or so, as I said before good but not good enough.

It's over to Mr Moshiri and the other owners to attract those special players and have the nerve to splash the money that will be needed to bring them to Goodison.

Not an easy task but we can live in hope.

Coleman was MotM for me and Gana ran himself into the ground.

A lot of surgery to be done in the next two windows:

We have three center-halves and none of them look up to the job. Surely time for a new lerft-back and move Baines forward as he just doesn't stop crosses or shots well enough.

Midfield – needs to be decimated. Keep Gana, (a fit) McCarthy, and maybe Barkley (only because I think he could thrive in a side with pace).

Strikers – I can't see Lukaku here next season so we need two more.

Must give opportunities to: Davies, Walsh, Holgate and Dowell

I can't see many suitors for the outgoing lot though.

Congratulations on your new niece. For her sake, I hope she was manufactured and not born.

Liam: Agree with you. The problem is: Why would any player with ambition want to join a club whose best days are rooted in the distant past?

First things first. We need a captain. Jags or Baines ain't it. Baines should have took that free kick not Valencia. Show a bit of authority in them situations.

Williams sluggish slow switches off at vital times, last night was the second time in three games (Watford) looks unfit.

Steklenburg a calamity waiting to happen as is Robles.

Funes Mori all endeavour and commitment needs someone along side him (Van Dik?) on current form McCarthy is a shoo-in.

Barry is finished if we are gonna play a high intensity pressing game. But hey lets keep on picking him so he gets the Premier League appearance record.

Ross, you are done, lad; so reactive as a player never proactive. Doesn't read the game, poor positional sense. Disappears for long periods.

Lennon & Mirallas both so inconsistent, can't string two good passes together let alone two good games.

The enigma that is Lukaku (a legend in his own front room) Lazy slow woeful first touch lack of commitment and by the looks of it a shit attitude and mardy (see Mirallas also). But he doesn't get any support every one bleats. The reason he doesn't is they're frightened to get close to him cos he couldn't trap a bag of wet cement. He traps it further than I can kick it. Get close to him he makes a bollocks of the ball to him they're out of position (see Watford again).

Good news: Gana (the new Alan Ball) and Seamus. The possibility of some youth coming through Dowell Davies Lewin given half a chance.

Finally the manager "Fraud or Genius?" only time will tell. At the moment, he is not giving off any positives. Just wish he would adopt different tactics and formations at times to get the best out of what he has got at his disposal.

Rant over. Up the Blues. Keep the faith!

Like most things, it's all about opinions. I thought Coleman was our best player last night.

Also, Calvert-Lewin was a bad substitution; when put on, all he could do was cover at right back. He's an offensive player – no chance of that when he came on.

Great report, Paul, summing up the game very well.

I thought Gueye, Coleman and Baines were outstanding but as I said before the game it would be won or lost in midfield and, although I'm a big fan of Ross's, I thought he was very poor last night as was Lukaku.

They are both what I would call luxury players. The number of times in the second half where they were both static had to be seen to be believed. Even if they are not chasing down defenders, they should at least be on their toes but both of them had poor anticipation of the ball coming to them and Lukaku was beaten to at least 80%of the challenges by a poor Liverpool defense.

I also thought that our 12th man got a bit quieter in the second half whereas their 12th man (Mike Dean) controlled the game throughout, ensuring a subtle bias to all the decisions..

Williams was the stand out defender in a poor Swansea team. He was often their MOM. He had our ( world class ) Lukaku often in his pocket in recent seasons.

He has also been outstanding for Wales...

What has happened to him now he is playing for Everton.

I really did think he would tighten up our dodgy defence..No signs of that just yet.

Your mark of four is about right.

And what can you say about Barkley? Someone now needs to make a decision on this player... We made the correct decision on selling Rodwell. And now his career is floundering. He was not the player that we all thought that he might be.

Barkley is now also floundering. Surely Koeman and Walsh can unearth a more consistent and productive midfielder than Barkley. We are going nowhere with this player.He is now bordering on useless...IMO..

Let him go and find his feet and game at another club. Let them have the headache. Of how to shoehorn him into a formation..

And I bet it is not a top club . A top club would soon expose this guys inadequacies. Again four is about right.

And you give Barry Five. That's also about right. We are not going to win much with Barry in the team. Great servant...yes. But time stands still for no man .

So your report has some of our players marked down with a spattering of fours...fives and a few sixes.. I know that football matches are not won or lost on a few statistics .. But when half our players are rightly marked average or below . Then we are not going to win many games.

And Baines our best rated player.Says it all really.

We need our attackers to be top rated. They are just not scoring goals. We concede three .our attack manages two. We concede one ..our attack scores nothing.

Yes we have problems all over the park. But it would help if we could score a few more goals. Is this pressing nonsense just an urban myth ..because I am just not seeing it.

Just hope that this bunch of players can produce something special against Leicester and Hull. Although it really is all about hope. I'm not really expecting much.

And about February we then do just about enough to secure another season in the top flight. That's our Everton... that's our team..

I suppose it could be worse today .I could be supporting those poor sods across Stanley Park. You just have to feel sorry for them

Opinions are like assholes – we all have one, for what it's worth here is mine on last nights debacle.

I don't agree that Lukaku should be angry with his team-mates as, the game I saw, he hardly broke into a sweat in the second half. Terrible 1st touch and when we did get in their half gave the ball away too easily.

Williams looks like the move to a 'bigger' club has thrown him completely, either that or he is trying to keep Swansea up by playing for us.

Mr Baines a great player but needs to stop crosses and close down.

Valencia gave it a go but was playing catch-up most of the time.

Ross – a conundrum wrapped in an enigma -ARRGGHH.

Mirallas – didn't feature last night, but anyone ever calls him Super Kev again ...just had to add that, apologies, not to him tho'

As said by better people, we need a captain and leader NOW

Walsh and Koeman, you need to work some magic this transfer window.

Only positives to come out of last night is that McCarthy was almost as good as Gana. Also, Seamus appeared to be firing on all cylinders again (might just be me)

Anyway, keep the faith fellow blues.

Should it provide a crumb of (relative) comfort ...

I just read a thread on the Grand Old Team site from a London-based blue surrounded by followers of the Sky 4 who reckons his workmates consider both the RS and us an irrelevance.

I work with a few match-going lads down here who are in their early 30s and thus not old enough to remember either of us winning the title. They take a similar view, but acknowledge that Liverpool almost "did a Leicester" when they had that forward who knew he was far to good for them (Suarez) and left to join a good team.

They do ask me which "world class match winners" we are expecting to sign in January window as the likes of Costa and Alexis Sanchez negotiate themselves into the £200k+ per week bracket?

They're not entirely dumb though. Most would have Gana in their teams. The exception being the Chelsea fans who would buy him and loan him to a German club along with the 40 or so other internationals they have out on loan ('cos that's what they do).

Thank goodness now we all know it was Barkley's fault. What a shame Osman wasn't playing then he could have shared the blame. Ah and apparently McCarthy is brilliant after all. All those saying for the past season and half that he was rubbish and they'd give him away were only joking.

Barkley's not got the talent to effect any game one way or another.

Geoff, you can only judge what you see. I am one of Barkley's biggest fans but he and Lukaku were very poor last night and did not impose themselves on the game at all.