Rooney testimonial ends goalless

Great player - don't get me wrong, could have been better, but still great. Congratulations Wayne; nice touch he chose Everton for his testimonial opponents but then shouldn't be surprised because like all of us, he is an Evertonian at heart. Never confuse the personal with the professional and all that!!

This is Rooney's and United's thing, not Everton's and the agreement was no doubt signed by them with Facebook.

It would take me 324 years to earn what Rooney earns a year (basic). Approx 590 years if you include all his sponsorship deals an bonuses.

Dig deep lad and chip in for all of us. Go on - its tax deductible - not that you pay much of that either!

COYB lets break the Old Trafford hoodoo

Firstly it's a request to donate to charity, you can say no.

Secondly how do you know about Rooneys tax affairs?

Yes he earns a ridiculous amount of money but good luck to him. I think the amount of money raised for charities including Alder Hey will massively dwarf what most people can or will.

Easy and free. You'll need WiFi.

This is his job and his one chance to secure his and his family's future.Give the man a break!

We simply don't have the midfielders on the pitch (or at the club) to pull this formation off..

Fandom can be a deciding factor when all other things are broadly equal. When all other things aren't even close to being equal; I wouldn't let it be a major factor in my career choices, why should a player?

This is Moyesesque

And at 43 minutes our £75m centre forward just missed a straightforward headed chance.

DON'T MAKE ME FUCKIN' LAUGH!!! If we get anywhere near those figures I will piss myself with laughter.

After watching that shite 1st half, we're in big trouble unless he gets players in and quick.

As an Evertonian of 53 years I would have stayed put to help make us great again but I can understand what he did and why even though I wouldn't have done it.

It's a testimonial and the proceeds are going to well deserving charities.

It was never gonna be more than an average kick about for Christ sake.

As for his kids? He's a Utd player, who's kits do you expect them to wear.

Get a fucking grip...

I trust this means Sr Martinez's claim relating to his dismissal, presumably based on projected loss of earnings, will be very substantially reduced. Which will give us the funds to offer our Welsh friends an extra couple of mill for their centre half.

How wonderful if Roberto could contribute to our defence in such a way.

Despite RM terrible season(s) they are no great shakes either! Lack of respect!

Hope Ross is saving something for when it starts properly.

I hope the pat on the back to Kone as he came on was, "This is your last chance son"; he added NOTHING.

And we didn't lose. It appeared our players were trying very hard not to concede a goal, which is great progress.

Looked a lot more solid. Holgate was decent and thought Davies looked outstanding when he came on and did more in 2 minutes than McCarthy did whole game.

As for Rooney, he looks like a man who has prostituted himself for gold. He knows he's a fraud and the Mancs (and their united nations of glory-hunters) secretly despise him.

Add to that the fawning commentator obsessing over the spoilt little brats and hoping for a Man Utd goal, and the bent ref letting play go on, hoping to keep them all happy with a late winner, and you see what is wrong with our poxy media and the money worshipping tossers that infest the game.

Oh and Ashley Young is a berk!

We'll make another two buys minimum, I suspect, before the 13th.

We were horrible defensively last season, tonight we looked tight for the most part. There were some little flashes, too, of attacking fluency.

Much to look forward to over the next 9 months.

It's not about being a Rooney hater. It's about wanting your homegrown to stay loyal. It's about being part of the Everton family. Born into the club, then choosing to leave. That's all. Nothing personal.

I can disrespect his decision because he was wrong and greedy. If I had the choice at his age and told my Dad I was heading off for Liverpool or Man Utd, he would have been hugely disappointed and would have talked me into staying and having my testimonial at Everton. I understand wanting more money and I don't hate Wayne. I just struggle to deal with the principle.

There is just one niggle about his departure – was he 'pushed' as we badly needed the money? There was even talk of administration at that time... Or, with his outstanding intellect, did he really want to go 'to win things'.

I hope Koeman knows his best team.. but I can't help thinking our line up against Spurs will be very defensive.

They obviously have far superior players. An awful lot of our play that goes wrong is just down to lack of quality and can't be blamed on poor management.

It pains me to say this but Baines is finished as far as I can see. He seems to have lost a yard of pace and his left foot has lost some of it's magic. Coleman on the other-hand looked good tonight but watch out for a late bid for his services from the onlooking Jose. I'll be happy to see Stones go, I just hope Pep wasn't watching.

Like I said on another thread - this will get worse before it gets better.

Was totally surprised with Holgate, who as a wide player in back 3 looks the part, got John Stones out of trouble at least twice with excellent covering. Funes Mori also better out wider. Coleman as a wing back give you so much more going forward, Baines ain't quite there yet.

Barkley quickly needs to sort himself out: slow to the ball, loses it too easily, and contributed nothing in first 45 mins. Still not sure of his best position – as a No 10 he's not good enough to find the spaces between the lines and when he does he invariably slows the play down or runs into blind alleys. As a deeper player he contributes nothing defensively and is a liability.

Stekenlenburg looks promising, just now needs time to work with a constant back 3 or 4. Lukaku put a shift in at least and did trouble the Man Utd back four with his strength.

Individually Coleman and Holgate stood out as did Mirallas when he came on second half.

On the negative side, I thought Stones was very poor with Kone, Deulofeu and Barkley only slightly better.

The rest didn't disappoint too much.

Rooney left an ageing poor Everton side for the chance to win something. Every player worth his salt wants to win caps and trophy's during his career.Our team was a pretty old bunch and Rooney was 16 years old when he broke in. Going away with England he was with loads of Man Utd players plus an agent down his ear. We as a club lacked ambition and Rooney needed to move on to develop the career he has had.

Honesty, at least.

Some good performances: Holgate, Mirallas, Davies, but the side needs new blood and fast. Although it's not all doom and gloom as that twat commentator on BT Sports would have us believe. Good man Hargreaves for putting him back in his bubble.

Whilst growing in to a Koeman team we need to get the basics right and not concede goals, it may be a bit dour for a whlie but let's get the early points on the board and springboard from there. A few years ago we all agreed that transformation from the Moyes era will take time, well we are back to square one. So let's get behind Koeman the team and any new additions and and the progress will come.

Most successful teams are built upon a tight defense.

My main concern would be the movement of the forwards and our lack of quality in midfield is stark. The squad needs a lot and with the season fast approaching I can't see us getting enough in before the window closes.

The good thing is that RK doesn't seem like the kind of guy that will blow smoke up the players arses and tell them a performance was phenomenal when it wasn't. It's not at all doom and gloom but patience definitely needed. It will take until Christmas to get the Martinez virus out of the club.

On a positive, we look less leaky.and with Tom Davies and Gana we have plenty of midfielders.

Swap out Stones – left winger, striker and experienced defender.

I think Ronald will soon get the picture that he would be wise to take the Man City shillings for Stones, and ship out the Barry - McCarthy axis as it's yesterday's midfield; we need better to make progress.

His comments on the transfer front indicate that there could be a few in, and some on their way out.

Moyes looked pleased with what he was watching. Pure KITAHTNO with the emphasis on HOPING to Nick one!

As for today's match, I was pleased to see the team moving as a unit, playing with three at the back with some success, and keeping some very good players at bay. The best part was hearing Koeman comment that the players need to be better on the ball. They do. That's progress.

On Martinez – I tentatively wish him luck. I did not expect him to get the opportunity after Everton to put his philosophy to the final test – that is, having top quality players to realize it. (If 'it' exists...) No matter what, I believe he's clearly very skilled at making others believe it does. Last chance.

"I didn't win anything, Son."

"I thought you where going to be one of the English greats..."

"No, Son... but I got some respect from a few ToffeeWebbers though."

Yes, we didn't have the ultra fast attacking we want and have seen but hopefully that will come and we could have had three goals.

On today, I thought we looked alright. The formation left a bit of a divide between the back 7 and the attacking 3 but the midfielders worked harder to bridge that after half-time.

Hard to judge too much. Was that Koeman bedding in his style or thinking "It's a testimonial, I'll try something different"?

I grudgingly admire the likes of Shearer who won 1 title, then went to Newcastle for the opportunity to win nothing but adulation. It's easy for dreamers on here to say "if it was me..." – you don't know – and you don't know the pressures that agents, family, even friends put on you to chase the money (and make all of them financially secure).

There was a concerted campaign to get him out of Everton. Granny-gate (he needs to get away from Liverpool – all of 35 miles), the phantom Newcastle bid to smoke out Man Utd.

I also don't want to see him back either. Not because I bear him any ill will – I don't – he's a top lad by all accounts – but I think his performance will decline rapidly, and if he's not in a strong team, will fall off a cliff. That would be painful to witness.

Not one single comment on Gibson's performance, he broke a lot of play up, played the usual forward passes, cannot recall him giving a ball away, big if, but if we can keep Gibson fit, I still rate him as one of our best midfielders.

Great squad player, so if we use the guy wisely, we might just get a lot more games out of him.

No doubting we were in shit creek only for the Rooney money saving us.

Still baffled by the negatives on here over Rooney.

If you worked for your best mate for say £20k salary, then someone said I will give you £50k, plus bonuses for success, would you stay loyal to your best friend, or take the £50k salary? I cannot fault Rooney one bit for not only taking the money, but also the medals he has, prove he made the right career choice.

There's no doubt Man Utd were the top team when he signed for them. We brought in quite a few players and finished 4th that season; had Rooney stayed, we would not have made those signings.

Do you honestly believe without those additional players, Rooney would have won us silverwere? Not a chance with the team we had before he left.

As Jim Royle would say, "Respect? My arse, give me success every time."

Some of the bitter, twisted and parochial posters on this thread should look at it another way. What about the greats that joined our club (Ball, Kendall, Young, etc) – we didn't call them rats for deserting their clubs.

United didn't really test our defence, however that hasn't stopped us conceding (especially in the final 10 mins) for the last two seasons. I'm counting that as a tentative step in the right direction, albeit one based on only a small sample.

Stones has ball skills and can pick a pass, occasionally.
Stones has a tendency to forget that he is a centre half.
Stones has a tendency to fanny about, run out of options, then abdicate responsibility by passing back to the keeper who then has a single option, hoof !
Stones has a tendency to repeat errors.
As certain as I am that RK is probably the best possible manager to make the very best of JS, upon last night's showing, I'd suspect that RK could well believe that he'll produce a better result in a shorter period with Mason Holgate.

Ross Barkley in a single passage of play summed up all of his characteristics. Lovely charge out of our half weaving and moving opposition players with ease, Everton players breaking both left and right creating both space and options. Then, RB has to make one of three decisions give it left, give it right or burst through the centre himself.
(We wait.… ...).
We can almost see Ross thinking.
(We wait a few seconds more !).
(We're all thinking, "DO Something lad !).
(We wait again).
He slips on his arse and the ball rolls tamely away.

These two lads have acknowledged talents, but making a simple decision doesn't appear to be a skill that either of them has the first bloody grasp of.

I've continually argued against selling either of them.
But when Stones was rescued by Holgate from his lack of awareness, poor position and failure to make contact with a fairly routine tgrough ball .. well £50M was looking a VERY good decision.

Lesson learned last night for me ?
Making a timely decision is infinitely preferable to having it made for you.

Was £27M not enough and too soon for Rooney ?

And

Is £50M not enough and too soon for Stones ?

Take whatever Man City are offering and give Swansea City what they want for Ashley Williams. Then, in 2 years time, when Williams is nearing the end, Holgate will have more first-team experience under his belt. On last night's performance he has plenty of potential.

Aside from the financial stuff, he could have stayed with us and he could have been the vital ingredient to get us past Villarreal the following year, thus getting us into the knockout stages- and who knows what would happen? Ditto many other pivotal moments and possible medal-winning opportunities for the lad to fill his cabinet with us.

To the posters who would follow the money – Who knows what riches we promised him? Probably a much better deal, and his advisers would have known that, in a year or two, the option to go would still be there.

Sorry folks, he and his advisers were greedy so-and-so's and he knows he pissed on his chips with true Blues. The Mancs really hate him and they won't be naming any stands after him.

Incidentally, he looks a shadow of his former self.

Barkley I'm convinced will have a good season, although does need to step up as a leader and game manager. He wasn't at his best last night but I'm also sure that having 5 defenders and 2 defensive midfielders who rarely show for the ball and one who certainly doesn't look to play forward doesn't help him. I think we will see a different player with Gueye and AN Other.

I really hope Besic is okay... I thought his 10 minutes were good and showed his very good passing range and desire to rather go forward than back... and he shows for the ball.

One example was Oviedo, who looked all at sea in a number of games that he was left back while Baines was injured towards the back end of last season. But last night looked a lot fitter, and so looked a better player. Reminded me more of the player we had two years ago.

Re: the game. I thought we looked defensively more organised (Holgate playing well, Stones making errors though) and played okay. We created chances, not a lot, but Man Utd were well set up (typical Jose side). Half-decent result, with obvious room for improvement, which our manager refreshingly pointed out.

Looks like we need an attacking midfielder and a few strikers (Rom was poor). Mirallas played well – he must be devastated with the news about the new Belgium manager, defies belief!!!

Looking forward to the Spurs game, but hoping we sign a few players, we need to. Glad to see people are a little more optimistic.

Tell me, were you wise enough to make a life changing decision when you were that age, especially if some one was waving millions of pounds and a Champions League medal in front of you? I wasn't. Probably still the case

As for what "riches we promised him", we were on the bones of our arse and probably couldn't afford whatever we offered him.

He could have stayed and changed things against Villarreal? Yeh and he's definitely pissed on his chips with true Blues – well, you're wrong. I'm a true Blue and I certainly don't feel that way.

I said in another post that some people seem to think if you don't hate Wayne Rooney you're not a proper Evertonian. I won't go into what makes me a proper Evertonian, or a better one than the next bloke, that's ridiculous. Just as ridiculous as your statement.

Rooney has won 10 major honours, broke the English scoring record (yeh, I know he might have done that playing for us). Is very close to breaking Sir Bobby Charlton's scoring record for Man Utd...

What have we done? And that's not Rooney's fault. He's an easy target to take out frustrations on and blame for our dismal position in today's football world.

The fact that the Mancs hate him (your words not mine) might just be to do with the fact that he's never renounced Everton completely and obviously has, and shows, feelings for the club. If they DO hate him, maybe it's because they're as bitter as you obviously are and can't see things in a reasonable light.

Reckon they should grow up, don't you? :-)

Link

Clearly the kid was above the level at which Everton were performing and able to reward him and it was right to' let the bird fly'.

Although some actions of his agents were questionable, all in all, they have done right by him and have steered his career to mega success.

Most of us have always wished the best for the lad (except when he's playing against the Blues) and hope his success continues for a few years yet.

But hate if you must. I hope you feel better for it.

He is one that I would keep – unless there is a load of wonga for him.

Over the years I have watched him play, I have enjoyed seeing him, usually in Champions League games. His hunger for the ball, his ability, his obvious joy for the game are worth watching. I am pleased that we had him for two years, I am sad that he didn't stay with us... but here's the thing... I would crawl over broken glass to be able to play for Everton, I would love to have a tenth of Wayne's ability, but if I was as good as him and the 2004/5 Man United team came calling, I bet I would have signed that contract too.

The kid has got loads of ability, but suffers from either not being very switched on, or he's scared to take on more responsibility, because he's too nice?

I hope Koeman changes the system, and plays McCarthy only as defensive midfielder.

That was partly our problem last night and last season. Our defensive midfielder can only play sideways or backwards.. Ludicrous. He'd be a squad member, not first choice.

He's a football pro, if you can secure your own and families future for generations you would be mad not to go for it. Okay, he would still have become a wealthy man if he had stayed with us, but not to the same degree.

If you resent him for his transfer, I think you should start using the other eye.

That self-respect would have turned to "what a bloody idiot I was to stay". And all those Rooney haters would still be blaming him for reasons they haven't yet thought of.

5 X Premier League: 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09, 2010–11, 2012–13, 1X FA Cup winner: 2015–16,
2x Football League Cup: 2005–06, 2009–10
3X FA Community Shield: 2007, 2010, 2011
1x UEFA Champions League: 2007–08
FIFA Club World Cup: 2008

Here's what he could've won for us:

Therein lies the point. Was it about money or the chance to win silverware. Personally I would have him back but feel he is over the hill and would not improve our team particularly

Couple of things ...

His kids in Man Utd kits will be in Blue ones again shortly.

Rooney himself when asked when or why he left – he said words to effect " I was being selfish" at the time. Not far away from recognition – near an apology.

I have noticed he does not celebrate to the Man Utd crowd, only to the heavens.

it wouldn't surprise me at all to see him having a reunion with Moyes at Sunderland. There could start a trend of reunions already kickied off with Mirallas and Lukaku to Martinez!

For me, firstly I'm not too fussed about how much he or other footballers earn, so long as they earn it, nor who they play for (apart from wanting all the best ones to play for us, obviously). I say good luck to the guy. Yes, I was disappointed when he left us, but that's life, and it's only a game.

Of course he left for a better chance of winning things. But playing in front of a bunch of pricks who spend every game chanting anti-Scouse hatred? I don't wish them or him any success.

And his kids wearing United kits puts to bed once and for all the beauts on here (who I always disagreed with) claiming he's bringing his kids up Blues.

With 'our boyhood blue', we got barely 2 years, after the club nurtured him into a world class player, protected his shady granny-shagging past from the media, then watched him leave as a teenager for less than a third of what Bale cost.

He went from £80 pw to £10,000 pw at 17, so I'm sure he wasn't short of cash, and if he had shown any loyalty, who knows what we could have won? I remember Bob Latchford, the best striker of his generation giving Everton the best 7 years of his career while we won sweet FA, but never once did he ask to leave.

Rooney won't be remembered by the Mancs once he's gone, as they detest scousers, but if he'd just given us a few more years, his name could have been etched in our history, like Labone, Harvey, Reid, Hickson, Dean etc. Local lads are always revered as I hope Baines will be – I couldn't imagine him kissing another club's badge at Goodison.

No, that's because we ARE once and always blues, not just glory hunters. You can't equate a football club with any other 'job'. Try reading about England international Steve Bull.

Just a point, Mick, I'm not sure you can compare the Labone, Harvey, Reid, Hickson, Dean etc era with the one we have today. If we still had the wages and financial restraints now as we had then, then I could see more players staying at their clubs.

What would be the point of moving, family, schools, friends etc., for a similar wage and you're still playing in a League where any one of ten or twelve teams might have a chance of winning? And no Champions League football. We all like to think that our boyhood heros would stay but in truth, we don''t really know for sure.

There are not many top players these days that stay at their home club when there's little chance of winning anything... it may have been the same then. It's difficult to compare the two, three eras.

Almost up to the launch of the PL , there was very much 'a master and servant ' relationship twixt club and player which was swept away by the Bosman ruling. By far the biggest change occurred with the 'legalising'of agents since when the law of the jungle has operated.

Only supporters remain loyal - almost to an obsessive degree.

You have hit the nail on the head. Different eras, different circumstances, therefore hard to compare. Let's remember how young and impressionable Rooney was when he left. Plus, and I hate to say this, a lot of players from the Rooney era and even more so now do not have a true grounding in what it means to work for a living and what a privilege it is to be a football player. They operate in a different sphere, which is why I have a love hate relationship with football these days!

I don't have any dislike for Rooney because of his move, perhaps, when he is an old man he will always think that he should have been in the top five all-time Everton greats, but circumstances didn't allow him that opportunity albeit it was as much his choice as anyone else's. Instead he has become a United legend but he will not gain the same adulation from the OT crowd as he would have done from Evertonians, if he had achieved success at Goodison Park. Perhaps one of his sons will find themselves in a similar position and have some of his talent and will be able to fulfil the dream of playing for and becoming successful with Everton FC.

We may never produce a player of Rooney's rare talent ever again, but we always hope to, and it is churlish to dislike or even hate a person for making what he believed to be the right choice for him and his family at the time. None of us know what we would have done in his position even if we think we do.

I don't think many were expecting him to put any of his kids in Everton kits, but many on here for quite a few years have argued he's bringing his kids up Evertonians when it's now totally clear to all those who have claimed this he's not.

He also said Belgium have 'the world at their feet.'

But warns of overburdening them!

He just did – by his appointment!

Stayed here? Yeah. Right. 'Course you would

Steve Bull been mentioned, put into the hat le tissier, both loyal but hardly anything to show.

Ball, Harvey, Kendall, Reid, Young, all these players are brought up time and again, all sucessful.

How many times do you get comments about Mick Lyons on here, not often, he loved Everton, would go through a brick wall for us, whether in defence, or diving in an oppentments box to get an header on goal, not many bigger Evertonians than Lyons, but he never managed success as an Everton captain, he cried when he scored that own goal at Anfield, but his lack of success sometimes never gets brought up on here, when talking about our past players.

People remember players who lifted trophies at Everton aside from Latchford Mckenzie etc.

Rooney left Everton when we were even turned down by wonga, we were on our arse, no question about that, yet Rooney gets unbelievable stick.

Lineker on the other hand, left a team that was one of the best in Europe, we had a great team, money and success, yet he left, its understandable Rooney leaving for the most successful premiership team, at best Everton were a half decent side but nowhere near utd at the time.

If we were all the same, would be pointless having a fans forum, I do not think fans are wrong to condem Rooney, no more than Those who have no grudge towards him.

People still talk about his utd badge kissing, he took vile stick from us about his weight and his father, so to speak everytime we played utd, I doubt he would have celebtated in the same gesture, without the constant abuse he got from us everytime he touched the ball.

Utd fans are lucky to have had such a talented footballer, one which they never appreciated.

How anyone could begrudge someone else for wanting to better themselves is truly beyond me. There's people on here who state they never would have left Everton if they'd been in his shoes, as if they have more love for our club then Rooney. Eh, hello, it's simply not valid to make such a comparison because you were never in Rooney's position, can't you see that? He's different, that's what helped make him the player he was, exceptional ability, determination and ambition to be the best. If you are fortunate to have the natural ability PLUS these additional attributes you will think and act differently to the rest of us, so there's no point presumptuously assuming you'd be different, you don't know that.

Someone quoted Steve Bull, I rest my case, he wasn't in the same league. Perhaps he missed the same degree of desire and ambition which Rooney had, which is why Bull stayed at Wolves but Rooney went on to test himself against the best. It's in his character.

So please a little less self righteousness and try and understand what makes people different and respect it. Rooney has shown loads of respect for our club and he'll no doubt be at GP or wherever we end up, week in, week out with his kids watching his team once he's retired from playing.

There are times (particularly when Baines, Pienaar and Coleman were ripping the arse out of teams when an Everton with Rooney would have been better than a Man Utd without. He WAS the difference. The glass ceiling we came so close to breaking would have been smashed to pieces if he was with us.

He was good enough to make the difference and he knows it. He chose the money.

He had every right to make the decision he did, but Evertonian ? Na... a real Evertonian with his ability would have stayed and tilted the balance in our favour, not joined the enemy and tilted it in theirs.

I bet there would have been no badge kissing from Rooney if it wasn't for the ignorant minority shouting shameful insults at him about him and his family.

I came away last night thinking its a forgone conclusion. I love this kid. Him and Stones could smash the doors to the School of Science wide open again.

Keep Stones and these two absolute naturals will become the best partnership in the game.

The 'he went for the money' is rubbish. Everton were never going to win trophies or play in the Champions League, he did that with Man Utd – why he left, simple. The 'extra' cash (he was hardly going to be skint staying at Everton was he?) was just a bonus.

Most kids would want to support the club their dad plays for.

The game raised lots of money and a large part of that will go to Alder Hey and Claire's House, so well done, Rooney.

Well if your missus ran off with a guy you hated, gave him her best years, flaunted him in front of you provocatively, then asked to come back, would you have the dignity to tell her where to go?

I love Everton, and hate anyone who disrespects this club. Please keep your baseless statistics to yourself, because I don't believe most 'Evertonians' would have him back.

Then he, along with a few others, like Colin Todd and Dave Thomas, fell out of favour with Gordon Lee in 1979. He was dropped but then asked to be taken off the transfer list about October. He reappeared the week after on the bench when we played Feynoord in the Uefa Cup and came on during the second leg at Goodison when we lost .

We select a team based on how we are influenced as kids, it's like being brainwashed but not quite as bad as religion. My Dad was a Koppite, I supported Everton, Rooney's kids are surrounded by their old man's employer and by friends and school mates who support United. Cool kids outside of Liverpool don't support Everton. He is doing exactly right by not brainwashing his kids and allowing them to make their own minds up.

Only an idiot wouldn't have Rooney back at our club.

I'll post whatever the mods allow me to post, Mick. I didn't post baseless stats. I reported what I heard and saw myself (the warm applause) when I attended those two testimonials. And I said that on the basis of that warm applause "I sense" most Evertonians would have him back - a fairly tentative statement. You believe otherwise. You're welcome to post that. And I'll continue to post my beliefs, so you'll have to accept that I'm afraid. Sorry but there you go.

The very best professional footballers have ambitions to be the best player they can be, win the most honours they can in the game and provide as much as possible financial security for their family. In other words they aspire to having the best playing career that they can, but it's a career, not a lifetime and eventually it will end. How that stacks up against anyone's missus leaving them for another fella is beyond me.

I wrote a post and it was never meant to start a "Rooney – love him or hate him" debate but it 's happened and I'm sure it's probably happened on this website before now. I can see both sides.

I read Darren's post and I agree and then I read others speaking in glowing terms about him and I see their point too. It might be an idea to have a vote and ask "would we have improved with him and won any trophies" and perhaps another that asks "would you want him back now". Perhaps the answer to both is already too obvious.

I guess it's good that we don't all agree and it's what makes the forum interesting. For what it's worth, I find every post interesting and respect everyone's differing views because we are all Evertonians and that's pretty special.

Martin,

I imagine you think the 'cool kids' still ride around on those chopper cycles with the giant winnit chafing seats, crappy flag and a dandelion & burdock bottle squashed above the back wheel for the best 'flap, flap, flap' sound, before skidding to a halt, giving a half hearted thumbs up and finishing with a Fonz from Happy Days style "eyyyyyyyyy".

(1) If you were a passionate regular in the late '70s, then you should surely remember Bob's "strike action" along with Thomas and Todd (who had also decided they couldn't be arsed anymore). My recollection is that nobody came in for him and he reappeared in the Feyenoord game – tail firmly between legs.

(2) Latchford was never all that. He was a hero in an otherwise barren spell for us – and that's fine,we all need a hero. Sure he knew where the net was too but he could be clumsy and very immobile – his control was often the subject of much merriment. I thank him for the memory of that Chelsea "30th goal game" but he rarely made his goals through skill and awareness – he got his goals from crosses and corners, so was only ever as good as the service.

For what it's worth I definitely don't.

That's not a dig at you by the way, but I reserve the right to think (and say) 'what a load of shite' (and show no respect) for venting passing as opinion.

"..I can just imagine Rooney laying in his Jacuzzi that's full of them little gold ingots that meffy povs wear on chunky gold chains and all round the bathroom is photos of Everton supporters and Rooney's flicking ingots at us and showing us his arse and then he goes on the bog which is shaped like Goodison and shits all over us. And yet some still defen..."

Etc.

First time I have ever seen Holgate play, last night and he was very impressive. Reminded me of a kid who used to play for Forest, years ago, called Gary Charles, who had the football world at his feet, before he went off the rails.

Have to agree that if Koeman, is going to play 3 at the back, then Stones and Holgate, would be brilliant together, if we could just get a dominant leader to play alongside them.

I think that Matt Le Tissier knows. Was he right? He is a Saint for the Saints and I have a good deal of respect for him, but, my God, it could have been different for him.

I reckon this was a firm statement by the club and manager that these guys are OUR players and will do what they are told – by Everton.

There are two trains of thought here, one would suggest he is a king amongst men by staying with the club he supported as a boy and which he loved, the other is that he was too comfortable being the big fish in a small pond who never had the ambition to really set the football world alight on a bigger stage?

Rooney? Maybe Everton's ambition didn't match his.

It was most likely the best thing for his career and the club but the people who lost out were us, Evertonians. It's taken 12 years but I'm over it.

Like it or not, as far as he's concerned, he's still one of us. whether people argue till they're blue in the face or red with rage,
It's the only fact in town.

"The thing that hurt about Rooney was that a club with our history and standing in the game couldn't hold onto a boy, the best of his generation, who would've loved to have achieved his dreams with us".

That paragraph just about sums it all up perfectly!

I'm having trouble understanding how you got what you did from what I said. I know it suits the argument you want to present, but nobody is saying we'd have won 10 trophies and the Mancs would have won none.

"Man United were already successful" – no shit, Sherlock! Rooney's presence made them even more successful.

We went close on more than one occasion to qualifying for Champions League place, if you don't think a Rooney in the team would not have gotten us over the line, changing the entire landscape, then I suspect you will be in a minority of one. That's what good players do.

He could have stayed and made US successful. So what if he didn't win ten trophies? 2-3 trophies and Champions League football in a blue shirt would surely be more valuable to an Evertonian than a dozen for a club most of us despise. He could have been our Stephen Gerrard.

You show a touching naivety when you claim he didn't go for the money, be absolutely certain that he would have gone nowhere if they were offering LESS than we could. He went for the money, He stayed for the money, he even held them to ransom.... for the money.

Look, I'm not here to bash Rooney, he is a fine player who has bordered (IMO) on being world class. It always makes me smile to think of 75,000 mancs forking out their hard-earned to worship a boy from a City they hate everything about – I often wonder how they reconcile themselves to their best player being one of those hated scousers...

As pointed out above. Nobody has the right to determine who is and who isn't an Evertonian, but we all have our views.

Would you trade being successful and mega rich playing for Everton, for being more successful and even richer playing for THAT club? I guess only Wayne Rooney will ever face that decision.

The badge kissing was difficult to stomach, the star jumps in front of Park End more so, but when he ran the length of the Old Trafford pitch to taunt Evertonians after Ronaldo's last-gasp penalty winner, he crossed the line for me. The one that says (in invisible writing) Evertonian on one side and NOT Evertonian on the other.

Eddie, when I say "how many fans across Europe would know who he is", the point I was making is that Le Tissier COULD have been a star on the world stage, so to speak, known throughout Europe as a wonderful player as opposed to a man who wouldn't be recognised outside of an island in the Channel or a seaside town in Hampshire, unless you are a real footie fan. Lack of ambition? Cosy little nest he's frightened to leave?

AND, further more, I'd like you to give a precise explanation of what exactly "dubstep" is. Can it be cured by talc or something from the Scholl range of foot care products?

Hmmm - rubs chin.

There's an old gag, two drunks in a bar.

One says "Hic..you're my best friend in the world, love the bones o' you mate - if I had two million pound, I'd give you a million...if I had two dead big mansions, you could have one of them"

His oppo says 'What would you do if you had two bicycles?"

The other feller thinks for a minute and says "Get fucked, you KNOW I've got two bikes!"

Point?

Easy to say what we'd absolutely definitely do in a situation that will never occur.

What happens in reality is often rather different.

The badge kissing thing was stupid but I'm sure I'd react to 'supporters' abusing my family!

I used to dislike him ( hate is a strong word) but time has changed that! Even though he's past his best I'd love him back tomorrow. He's a huge name worldwide so would help attract players as well as playing his part on the pitch! Can't see it happening though!!!

I thought there was a PR stunt going on last year to pave a way back to us: the TV documentary where I think he came across as a down-to-earth lad then the Duncan testimonial appearance. I thought it was an attempt to heal wounds with the fanbase. He seems pretty committed to United though now.

I would have him back in a blue shirt tomorrow. He was superb against us in the semi-final. I don't think he's the player he was but he could do a job for us. He'd need to take a massive wage cut though and I can't see it happening now.

"Jon, how is Rooney one of us ?" Because after the testimonial he got into a private helicopter and came round to my gaff, Knowing I was an Evertonian, and told me. We then cracked open a couple of cans of Chang and chugged away merrily!

When finished he then went to the chippy round the corner and bought us both a fish supper with the proceeds of the game.

Now then Peter, THATS what you call a "nonsense statement" FYI. ;-P

Having an attitude that you would play for nothing is admirable, but a top player would never have this attitude because if they had, they would never have become a top player in the first place.