Southampton vs Everton

However, I've been supporting Everton long enough to know that we don't capitalise on such advantages. So I'll be satisfied with a draw, but hoping for a win.

Come on boys, make us proud to wear the Everton scarf. COYB.

1) Jagielka has to be dropped, for either Holgate, or more likely, Funes Mori.

2) Deulofeu has to start! Mirallas has had his chance over a run of games. I don't think Lennon is a first choice starter in Koeman's mind (very useful squad player though).
Deulofeu needs to start, and play at least 60 minutes for the next 4 or 5 games.

I'd like to see Holgate start, but my predicted line-up is:

Stekelenburg;
Coleman, Williams, Funes Mori, Baines;
Idrissa, Barry (c);
Deulofeu, Barkley, Bolasie;
Lukaku.

Subs: Robles, Jagielka, Holgate, McCarthy, Cleverley, Mirallas, Valencia.

(I would love to see Davies in the team ahead of both Cleverley and McCarthy, but his time will come!)

'many Evertonians would be content with a victory from this one.'

Surely, all of them!

I'm not wholly convinced by this 'talent in the Blues ranks' either – are we under a similar delusion to England's 'Golden Generation' ?

Still, there should be enough there to compete with Southampton if we turn up.

Think you will find that statement incorrect, Lyndon. We haven't won in the Premier League for only 2 games. We beat West Ham then lost to Chelsea and drew with Swansea.

Koeman seriously needs to earn his coin, we're a shambles at the moment.

Damian – agreed, Deulofeu wasn't great last week but he was far better than Lennon and, for that matter, Mirallas. As has been pointed out on other threads, he captains Spain U23s and has a one-in-two goal record over 32 games for them so he can't be that bad!

Koeman does need more time to be fair and it was never going to happen overnight but some recent performances seem to indicate they are going backwards.

Why is he always so unfit? Does he not do the same training as the others or can he just not be bothered?

I was very disappointing to see Lennon not perform last week and you have to worry why so many players are showing such a lack if effort and commitment.

Bringing in Lennon and McCarthy last week was a disaster. McCarthy had no idea how to go forward and got no tackles in, while Lennon didn't even try imo.

This is a game where we will have to defend as well as attack so I would play Lennon in preference to Deulofeu or Mirallas.

Koeman needs to show his tactical and motivational skills soon and this would be a good game to start. I expect a goalless draw but hope for any sort of win for us.

What good is it putting in a performance in the 2nd half but not in the first. Are the players so unfit that they can only perform for the half the game?

Lennon won't be playing after last week, he was dreadful.

I'm not optimistic about this game. And I can't see it making much difference who gets picked between Mirallas, Lennon and Deulofeu – none of them are good enough for a team with the ambition its owner allegedly has. At least if we get a draw, it will leave us half way to 40 points, but I think it will be us scraping the draw.

And how demoralising to be reminded that we didn't beat Crystal Palace or Swansea or Burnley.

Now I'll go and take some more anti-depressants.

Personally, I think the constant line-up rotation has done little to improve the team's form.

It might be better to keep the back 4 unchanged and yes that means retaining Jags. He has to start using his brain a lot more and take up better positions to avoid being exposed for pace.

Koeman has to drill the back 4 into a disciplined unit. We must keep clean sheets given how the attack has misfired in recent weeks.

God knows we all deserve a lift.

Time to drop Jags for a while and a few others. Get the kids in for an energy injection.

It can't be much worse than what we have now.

I'd also like to see Deulofeu gave another go up top like at the start of the season but up alongside Rom this time!

I suspect it will be a hard game tomorrow ;having watched Southampton a couple of times this season, they are a decent team and their captain Van Djik is top class. I'd love us to snatch him he is twice the player Stones is!

I predict a Desmond! 2-2!

We have waited for so long that another transfer window or two and we may just get something special.

Koeman should be getting more out of them, even though it isn't the best of squads. He messes with line-ups. He never gives the kids a chance. Where is Holgate? What about Davies? He deserves a chance ahead of poor performers like Barkley.

I'm sorry, yes we have shit players, but the manager is also currently shit. This equals utter shit, which is what we've seen the past few months.

No pride left at the end of success-not-happening...

I don't know what posters are watching when they claim Deulofeu should start, the lad is an average show pony. Baines and Coleman must have fits when he starts as he's a complete defensive liability. He belongs in the Spanish B league. No chance he survives Koeman's cull in the next two windows.

BTW a lad we should have signed will be playing tomorrow, Nathan Redmond, smashing little player who is far better than anyone we have in that position.

Man City just about beat Burnley; Chelsea struggled at times to overcome Spurs... and so it goes on game after game week by week. The odds on Everton winning a game of football in their current form is pretty high, but that doesn't mean they won't celebrate a victory in the coming weeks.

Admittedly a poor performance and defeat tomorrow will have the alarm bells ringing because, if this current group can't raise themselves for their current manager against his former club, then something is deeply wrong. Even so, as supporters, we have to believe that a victory is on its way soon, otherwise we might as well just roll over and forget all about Everton FC.

he Echo, the last time an Everton manager returned to his former employees in the Premier League was Mike Walker and that night didn't end well for the Toffees as they lost 3-0 at Carrow Road. I might do some Christmas shopping between 4pm and 6pm tomorrow evening. Who's next? Man Utd at home!!!

All I'm saying is that, in the form we are in, there are no clear-cut wins to look forward to. Sure, we will get to 40 or more but attitude and form has to change. Koeman seems to do exactly what Moyes would do and doesn't seem to want to change from the tried and trusted.

Koeman did say after Everton had beaten West Brom at the Hawthorns and drawn with Spurs at home, “I'm very happy with the work-rate of the team and how I like to improve and what we need to do,” said the Blues boss.

“They are doing a lot of different things to last season and that's good. In my opinion, fresh air for everybody is good. I believe in that way and that philosophy.

"Of course you need time to get everybody involved in that structure. But it's better a question for the players because they need to change. I don't change.”

Perhaps in hindsight that was a mistake by Ronald as it may have created a schism between him and his players; we'll find out in the next few weeks and months I suppose.

Stekelenburg;
Coleman, Williams (c), Funes Mori, Baines;
Davies, Gana, Barry;
Barkley, Lukaku, Bolasie.

Funes Mori has the advantage of being basically left-sided, and take your pick from Williams or Jagielka for the other defensive place. Robles would get my vote as keeper, Stekelenburg is either brilliant or terrible and I fear he's due one of the latter displays.

We need at least an honourable draw.

It will be hard to accept such a season without comment – and, indeed, ToffeeWeb would die if criticism of the manager and his charges were to be outlawed – but I guess we can only show forbearance and just add it to the seemingly endless list of years in which the name of Everton will be found amongst 'the also-rans'!

When I've watched footage of him playing centrally, he seems to frighten defences with that raw pace Also, he has got an eye for that killer ball which we've seen on occasions.

So maybe Ronald can think this one through... because, let's face it, we've hardly been convincing of late. We looked static last week against Swansea so I hope we're at it from the first minute tomorrow. Yesterday, I predicted 1-1 or a 2-1 defeat. Tonight, I'm changing my mind 2-1 to us.

There is a slight autograph mistake in Miracle's name, as that is how the predictive text on my tablet spells the name of Mirallas. I didn't bother changing the error, because Miracles makes me howl with laughter and is exactly what we need.

These players have hoodwinked the fans for far too long now.

They even have names on Everton Jerseys, that fans have bought in good faith. Yet, they haven't delivered over 90 minutes (because they can't last that long!), or even in the role as substitute.

IMHO, I think these jokers should reimburse the fans, who bought their jerseys as a sort of sanction, or be fined for underperforming.

Tomorrow, as sure as eggs are eggs, these dudes are going to substitute each other (intertwined with Barkley). As per usual. Enough, is enough. Cough up, or shape up!

I have always commented on our habit of not being able to put in a full 90-minute effort instead of two different 45s. When they finally did v Chelsea it was a full ninety of absolute shambolicism.

As unlikely as it seems, I think we will get a result at St Mary's, ether positive or negative; our fantastic away support deserves a whole lot better.

The Saints have their Europa League fate in their own hands as a goalless draw or a victory in their final fixture, will see them progress – so not out of Europe just yet.

For the money they receive, that's not much to expect, eh?

What could Holgate have done so wrong? Maybe ran over Ronny's cat? I thought he was fantastic.

Tomorrow Koeman will return to a club where he is despised. I expect someting special from him. I expect our players to perform as though defeat means relegation. I expect them to be up for this more than any game this season. I expect a victory. I expect a bold ferocious show.

Hoping for the best: 1-1; fearing the worst: 0-2.

One thing is for sure:– if he gave Holgate and Davies a start, they would play for him.

https://mobile.twitter.com/SportsVlness/status/802496917544452101/video/1

We need to find that passion hunger and confidence again

I think Davies more so than Holgate. He played McCarthy instead of Davies when McCarthy was just coming back from injury.

No way will he play them tomorrow... I hope I'm wrong but I doubt it.

Yes, they aren't the best of talented Premier League players we would like to see at our beloved club but none of them are showing any pride in the shirt. The manager should drill into his players that they might be at Everton for a few seasons but we the supporters are here for life.

Pride is a big part of an Evertonian's life. When you get beat, as long as you've given everything – and I mean everything – then that is acceptable. When you don't, like the present squad are doing, it is totally unacceptable.

Okay, we're not blessed with the greatest crop of players but there's no excuse for not giving your all for the shirt... and that rests totally with Big Ron.

I would love to see him give the kids a run-out. Their enthusiasum and pride just might rub off on the seniors. We need freshening up. I would like to see a happier Goodison at the moment, it's like a chore watching the blues... Is there an Andy Gray and a Peter Reid out there?

I'd hope they'd feel as shite as those who paid to watch their shite last week and, if they have one ounce of integrity, come out tomorrow determined to put themselves on the line from the kick-off, no excuses, no cowardice, and no agenda other than to win three points for the fans and the club and themselves, in that order.

I totally disagree with the Echo's journos who are saying he should be allowed to play himself back into form. How many more penalties or defeats before they get real?

Funes Mori, a now regular Argentine international, deserves a chance to build an alternative centre-back partnership with Williams, who also lacks a bit of pace. We can't afford two ageing centre backs in the team at the same time.

Funes Mori can offer a natural left-sided balance and a goal threat too. I remember last season when people were chanting his name. Now many of them have turned against him despite his relative lack of game time this season.

I think he'd give us more stability than Jagielka at present and just needs a run of games to forge the partnership I mentioned earlier. It's worth mentioning that he was part of the defence that saw us through our unbeaten start to the season only to be dropped when Jagielka returned from injury, and look where that's got us!

Now Koeman may turn it round and we do regularly have better players either on the bench or youngsters in the background than what starts but his keenness to play the same 11, same clueless tactics and one good or okay half for each 90mins every game this season tells me he probably won't.Not confident at all about today's game.

Time to stop whinging and support the team and management. Full stop. I done with the crap!

Just seen Klopp winding the shite supporters up. I thought the Germans didn't have passion, for fuck's sake.

I echo your sentiments, Premier League footballers are some of the fittest athletes we've got the mispleasure of watching at the moment, for them not to run, harry, chase people down and then generally look like they don't give a fuck either, is imho, unforgivable.

But where the route of the problem lies is anyone's guess, but to coin a phrase (I just made up), first rule of management – everything is down to you, Ronny.

I think he can turn it around, but with different players, don't know if that's a luxury we can afford. But, at this moment in time, with one win in eight, it's shit being a Blue.

I'm a bit wary of playing too many youngsters at the same time; however, I have to agree with you – the team needs shaking up out of the lethargic state it is in, therefore I would take a chance on Kenny at right back and Davies in midfield, maybe Holgate could come in although I would play Funes Mori. Where some of the present players need a kick up the backside to get them going, and even that doesn't work in some cases, these young lads would be fighting to get on the pitch and have a go.

While I'm in this mood, I would also put Liam Walsh on the bench ready to come on for one of the under-achievers, this lad would have to be told to keep his exuberance under control, he would show a lot of the players up and in no way would he let the team down.

It will not happen, of course, unless Mr. Koeman has been on the road to Damascus this week, but something has to be done; the players are plainly not doing what the manager wants them to do.

The problem is they're on long and lucrative contracts and there lies the problem. They need to be got rid of before we can bring people in... any suggestions?

Absolutely, Lyndon.

We do not have a team of poor players playing at their level. We have a team of able players underperforming.

Why???

I think that their energy could be the infectious catalyst we need. Worth a go anyway.

A year ago, the German was showing plenty of passion, mainly doing his nut with some dire performances and failure of players to follow his pressing style (Coutinho in particular, who was crap and couldn't last more than an hour). How times change though...

So let's see if our players (and they do have plenty if ability, in my opinion, at least as much as our neighbours) can adapt similarly to the pressing game.

I am certain that things will change but it will take time. It's amazing how a group of players can appear to be so inept and then slowly things start to fall in place and they look formidable.

It just takes time for the manager's philosophy to work. It may be that the catalyst for change will be two key players in the transfer window. Koeman must now have a good idea of what's required.

We just have to be patient.

I think you've worked it out. I was fuming last Saturday, he wasn't trying. He's got a three-year contract that will see him out and doesn't care now.

Goalkeeper — two so-so journey men; full backs — good; centre halves — poor; midfield —ponderous, old, negative, lacking ability, speed etc; forwards —abysmal; wingers — flatter to deceive; main striker — can't control a ball. We are a poor club side.

We don't give our youth a chance (I think as fans we are as much to blame — we want them to perform without error). Why do we take players who cannot even get into teams of a lesser level? Then we are linked with players well past their best because the clubs challenging no longer require them?

Not holding my breath today would love a win but am resigned to keeping the defeat low.

I'll go 0-0 on this too. You can thank me later. :-)

Paddy Power only offering 6/1. Have gone for Everton winning 1-0 HT, and 2-1 full time. 35/1.

Everton mints for all – if it comes in!

Absolutely no reason we shouldn't take 3 from this but likewise previous games. Potentially another bit of a "should 'ave...", "could 'ave...", "would 'ave...'' type match.

Hopefully it will be a "did it...!"

2-1 Everton my predictor this week.

What does the manager actually want the players to do? Most of them are internationals so should be able to do the basics without being told – like closing space down when the opposition have the ball. We gave Swansea so much space and time, we made them look like Barcelona at times.

Does Lukaku give a fuck if we win lose or draw? He should take a look at the way Costa plays.

Those five get rotated in and out but we never see any change just the same old inept showings gong forward. They can all go as far as I'm concerned. It's scary to say that because those are all supposed to be our most creative players but I don't think that any of them make the grade.

I believe that the manager has a much bigger re-building job on his hands than any of us originally thought although the kind of players that we are being linked with doesn't give me a great deal of hope either.

I hope that I'm wrong I really really do.

Mark, I still think Koeman is unsure about which is his best starting XI but I still hold out hope for Gerri and Ross. But he needs to give both of them a defined role in the team.

As for Bolasie, Lennon and Mirallas, they just aren't good enough to start. We paid way over the odds for Bolasie so I'm just glad we didn't blow another £30m on that prick, Sissoko...

I wonder if Geri and Ross will ever improve beyond what they are now to be honest. Both, more so Ross, have been in the first team for several seasons now but I honestly think that neither have improved since they began their respective Everton careers. Indeed, I think that Ross has actually gone backwards in his development.

I wonder how many more seasons we can keep watching them contribute little and continue to say that they need time, a regular place a defined role etc. I hope that you are right and I am wrong but I feel that that might not be the case.

Dropping points is one thing but, in the manner they have been doing, is totally unacceptable.

We don't demand a win, or even a draw. We just ask that you run, fight and give a shit. Run until your legs can't carry you anymore, fight for every ball and give nothing away cheaply, and give a shit about the fans, your manager, and your own performance. We ask for no more than that.

Not asking for them to play like Barca – just show some pride COYBS

You've got to be really special to play every game for Spurs, they're stockpiling players for when they all get knackered at the end of the season (which will be Liverpool's shortcoming, by the way).

Martinez bought too many players who would be good if there were better players around them. Koeman is stuck with this and some of ageing players who look past their best.

The rebuild will be a long-term job. He still should be doing better with what he has now.

Lennon's game last week was the first time he had started a league game this season, didn't have a good game, but ran out of steam, maybe because he hadn't played a full game for months But you are entitled to your opinion.

I was out early so I'm feeling no pain at the moment. In fact I'm even buying into the gospel according to Tully and Lloyd. I've decided to give Koeman more time. Hopefully that's not the ale talking...

Plenty in the fridge and after listening to Shite of the red variety for the past few hours I'm gonna need it.

After a week of indifference, I'm now well and truly up for this.

I'm on Bainsey to notch!

You forgot to tell them that they are allowed to shoot as well.

Play as a team, support one another. Win lose or draw, if the effort is put in the fans will be right with you.

I'm uninspired so far, but we're 7th without playing well. What will happen when we do? What will happen when he strengthens the team? That's what I'm hanging on to for now.

In the meantime, for today my heart says a win, my money has said a draw. Hope I'm wrong in the right way.

We have had glimpse of what's to come from Koeman so let's show a bit of restraint – not like we have won anything in 20 years now, is it?