Koeman defiant in response to Klopp's clowning

What has Mirallas done? He should've started and Barkley should've been hooked. No changes either personnel or tactics at half-time sealed our fate. Sad grumpy old Evertonian...

The game's over, we lost again to them, in a poor performance; we move on and if a kopite goes on about dirty players etc, tell them to shove it. Some people have short memories.

That, to me, was one of the worst performances of the season and just goes to show how much further we have to go to be a competitive side.

That was not a game to be proud of, it was shameful, gutless and shocking for a team supposedly trying to breach the top 6. Personally if I was Koeman I would have said exactly that to the media.

The players need to be told in no uncertain terms that that kind of performance just isn't good enough for Everton. Sadly, it just doesn't hurt them enough. Maybe they need to be around supporters now and again for a reality check, including Koeman after those comments.

Proud of that shite... yeah, okay.

In leaving Barry out we had no foot on the ball. And no class in midfield. Our starting positions always wrong. If he was going to revert to a back 3 Holgate should of been in it. That kid is going places!

Koeman tried something different. It didn't work. I'd of preferred to just not play the game and give them the points.

Barkley got too excited anywhere near the ball and forgot the basics. He needs a certain shape and better players around him. Shame we missed Morgan and Seamus so much.

It sounds like Klopp got right on his tits today and to be honest I'm more than happy he's pointed out the antics that twat gets up to on the sidelines – someone needs to.

Klopp's feigned disdain when he heard Koeman had discussed him in his interview were interesting (i.e. Koeman will now be cast as going against "form" or an unwritten managerial code for criticising him in public, which will potentially put other managers off doing the same, which will give him more licence to do what he does to refs and officials on match day – i.e. trying to intimidate them without reproach).

Klopps a bully, and the worst kind because he does it behind a smile. I don't think he's the nice guy he'd like everyone to think he is and I think Koeman knows this too.

For me Koeman's comments after the game were a smokescreen – water off a ducks back. I'm sure he knows how bad we were, he just didn't want to admit it in front of that lot.

With regards to the performance, Barkley frustrates the life out of me. So talented and a joy to behold when on song. Today he was awful, but at least he showed he cared and was always trying, always asking for the ball and if a couple of his attempted passes had come off we could well have been singing his name instead of slagging him off. How fickle can fate be and the attitude of us fans?

As for Lukaku, well what can you say? Undoubtedly the best goalscorer we've had for years but his attitude is questionable, to say the least. He apparently has ambition to play at the highest level, nothing wrong with that, but if the best defenders in the Premier League can tie him up, with apparent ease, how does he think that he will succeed against some of the best in the world if he plays in the Champions League?

I sincerely hope that puts to bed the embarrassing "Good old Ronnie, tells it like it is" nonsense.

Don't blame him for the defeat, but I do blame him for rubbing salt into the wounds with this pap.

Under the circumstances may be he thought Pennington did the best he could? That's not to say the rest of the team played well and many probably under-performed.

Cast List:-

Ronald Koeman as Capt Mainwaring. "I know we haven't many weapons, but give them what for anyway men!"

Phil Jagielka as Sgt Wilson. "Would you chaps mind most awfully marking one or two of the enemy when they come at us!"

Ashley Williams as Lance Cpl Jones. "Don't panic, Don't Panic!"

Matthew Pennington as Pvt Pike. "Mum says I shouldn't go near those nasty attackers!"

Leighton Baines as Pvt Fraser. We're doomed, doomed I say!"

I agree strongly with Koeman's comments regarding Klopp's and the rest of the Liverpool coaching staff trying to influence the officials from the touchline.

It's like watching parents on the touchline at a kiddie's game. Pathetic and it needs stamping out. It's not just Liverpool who are guilty of this nonsense. It seems to have evolved in line with the play-acting that is now part of the game on the pitch.

However, Koeman is not stupid, he knew that he had taken a risk in selecting 3 or 4 rookies in key positions and did not want to hang them out to dry with a slaughtering.

There is also the situation with Barkley and Lukaku, Koeman has a job on his hands in the coming months.

Twelve months ago this lad didn't have a tackle in him.

I like the recut diamond.

I agree. It wouldn't do much for the kids to berate them publicly. I'm sure he's no fool and can see who needs a kick in the ass.

Davies has come a long way quickly but this is his first season in the first team. Likewise Holgate, who was played out of position. Pennington just back off a long injury with what? One prior appearance to his name? Playing alongside geriatric Keystone Cops.

The guys who let us down were the reckless Barkley and the lazy Lukaku. I can't even say Williams and Jags let us down cause I think they're just past it so don't offer much. Clearly we need reinforcements. Publicly calling out some of our has-beens and wannabes won't change that.

A difference between them is that Klopp is a showman, and gives the impression that he craves attention. His behaviour on the touch line is like Maureen's and some other managers, unacceptable as far as I am concerned. He is generally an embarrassment, doesn't take defeat well, and seems arrogant in victory.

Regarding Koeman's 'honesty', often he is refreshingly honest, but sometimes he is crass and undiplomatic. Sometimes the 'honesty' is the pseudo-honesty of the politician, easily seen through.

That said, all of this is less relevant than the fact that Koeman repeatedly gets his away tactics wrong, not setting us up to win, but to contain with an appearance of fear. If I just looked at our home form, I would say that Koeman is an excellent manager. If I just looked at our away form, I would say he's a poor manager. He's a bit of an enigma. But then most managers seem to be.

I'm sure he was protecting/deflecting from the younger players and is now trying to create an "us against the world" mentality. Calvert-Lewin, Davies, Pennington and Holgate were young lads doing their best who will hopefully learn fast. I hope he bollocks the rest of them in private.

Ciaran nailed it: like all managers, he's honest when it suits him.

I certainly wasn't proud watching that today.

They act like spoilt kids maybe cause their Dads didn't hug them enough or something. Annoys the crap out of me. Glad Koeman concurs.

I hope Lukaku got a reality check today that he isn't as good as he think that he is. But he will probably blame Everton for today.

A great start for a long career at Everton for Pennington. With Coleman missing, it was going to be different for us. I'm sure when the current line-up goes to the next game, it will be better. Mirallas and Valencia should have started, I hope they do against Man Utd.

Already looking forward to the next derby next season, the fear will hopefully be evaporated at that time. Onwards and upwards, COYB.

Apart from the goal and the couple of minutes before their second snapped everyone back to reality, what the hell was there to 'enjoy'?

I've said for ages he needs to find a way to start causing opponents more worry when we are on our travels; too often in too many away games we look completely tepid.

I think he's got to start with Mirallas and Valencia at Old Trafford. Nothing against Calvert-Lewin but he's been out injured and he hasn't really looked the quickest or most mobile.

Antonio Valencia is quite busy and works hard, I would have went with him today with Lukaku. I'd have been been tempted to go with Lookman ahead of Calvert-Lewin today, I think Lookman would have been a bit sharper and zippy.

Koeman needs to get this sorted for Tuesday night otherwise the season ceases to exist from there on and it will just be a case of holding off West Brom for 7th place.

Perhaps the manager should have compensated in January's transfer window for a potential injury for Seamus Coleman, considering we have supposedly got all these millions, just saying like.

I assume Lennon is injured. Koeman said yesterday he had 17 outfield players including Mo Besic. 16 were involved today and Mo makes 17.

Whatever you're drinking, I'll have one!!!

Yes,maybe Lennon is injured; I'm not sure because he's hardly figured.

I don't think he's a great player, Lennon, but to be fair he was in bang good form this time last year and could always be relied upon to put a shift in and contributed quite a few goals too.

Koeman signed Bolasie but it appears that he has decided now he doesn't like wingers: Deulofeu farmed out, McGeady not in plans, Mirallas in and out, and Lennon frozen out all season.

I was mostly embarrassed.

Lukaku hardly got any service so don't think we should be too harsh in him. I think if Barkley is having a stinker, either put him on the wing or deeper but keep him playing as you never know what he might pull out of the bag.

Koeman just picked an uncompetitive team today. If we had all our players including that fool McCarthy we would have been a lot better. Need to fix things up for Tuesday.

Later in the game he dwelled on the ball a bit too often but again they chose the wrong words to describe a Barkley performance.

Then there is Coutinho. I may be totally evil toward the reds here but was his performance what they said it was? Over-hyped I thought and although his finish was great in football terms, I didn't see a great deal of creating from him either.

Sometimes our fans forget that sky are selling their commentary to a massive red customer base and Gary Neville couldn't stop purring about Coutinho throughout right until he was subbed yet again. Do they mention how often he is subbed?

Neville and Co are looking to be in a job for life and they play the role great but don't fall for all their praise of the darling clubs. Just listen to Tony Gayle talk about the Kopites. He's West Ham through and through but if you heard him talk football for the first time you wouldn't know.

We were dreadful today, no excuse, but I am not swallowing absolute nonsense from so called experts who are simply keeping their big customer base happy. I know what a world class performance is and I have seen many a red player put better derbies in than anyone we seen today. Don't let them hype their favourites against ours because it's exactly what they want.

And lastly, Carragher again talking about Mentality because he know's the same view can be taken next time around. I seen us trying to have a go but the line-up and system didn't suit the performance we needed. Hardly a mental problem, just poor play.

All a bit silly. Take Barkley's 'tackle' on Lovren... the ball was in Barkley's possession but he overplays it by a fraction and feels he has to do a little more to retain it, while Lovren sees his chance and gets his foot in first, Ross treads on it. Yellow card was harsh but he had fouled earlier. The reaction is way out of proportion.

Could have broken his leg? I don't think so. Yes, that happened last weekend... but it is extremely rare. And what I attempted to show then was that it took a unique element in the tackle – Coleman kicking Taylor's leg – to actually sustain the break.

Is there a risk that any tackle could end in a broken leg? Yes, there's a chance... a very small chance. The stats show it's an extremely rare event, despite the ingredients being there in every game. The ridiculous over-reaction to Barkley's effort in this case makes no sense. Just reds like Klopp and his sycophants bleating.

Koeman is spot on with his comments re Klopp. It made me proud to hear someone finally call out this utter clown.

On Thursday night, my mate called me and said if we play 3 centre-backs I think we'll be saying Jagielka should have been the middle one or Jagielka should be the right side, it'll be that type of game.

How bad is it when an electrician can see what is likely to happen if we mess with the system we have played well in. Ah well....

I don't agree with the proud thing though. Rom and Barkley playing for themselves and Williams and Jags not playing cool enough. The others were just okay and you need to do better than okay week in week out to compete.

Liverpool were almost as bad but had the excellent Coutinho and Lovren and that was the difference today.

No support for the player who scores when he is given chances, and today shows why he has got itchy feet!

Davies should have stayed on and Calvert-Lewin subbed for Super Kev far earlier.

Enough said.

I don't care if he thinks he's protecting the young players; he's got this wrong and has totally mis-read the mood of our fans. We watched that horrible capitulation.

Here's the thing. Those young players need no protection. They froze, they made schoolboy standard errors and yes, they were let down by the so called senior players.

But pretending they were part of a performance to be proud of? No, that's not the way to go after that steaming pile of shit.

We have class. That cheerleading bafoon with his pathetic, over-the-top antics shows zero class. The horse-toothed one is a douche.

You don't see (or shouldn't) an Everton manager running up and down the touchline acting like a cheering or spoiled 6-year-old boy.

The point is we don't do that.

And that's why I love us and the can just Fuck Off!!!

Exhale...

Klopp is an embarrassing child who was never disciplined.

It's one thing not to turn up against Spurs when it really mattered, but quite another to again embarrass ourselves against the RedShite.

It is not helping anyone to lie thinking he's protecting kids. He isn't. They hopefully will know, or have been told by others, that some stank the place out. They didn't do it deliberately and hopefully they will learn and I think we will respect them for it. But enough is enough.

We cannot go on just seeing young and older freeze against the better teams above us. We have to be clear that it's nothing to be proud of, whatever the excuses around injuries and inexperience.

I know it sounds harsh but this rubbish has gone on for too long. We will start again, pray for something better at Old Trafford, hope we can hang on to 7th & bloody Leicester don't win the Champions League. At least it's a step up from two years of Martinez, even if a stretch to start saying you made us proud.

The RedShite have been refereeing derby matches for about 40 years. Klopp was simply carrying on the tradition.

We have to ditch this too-much-class, dignified, nice guy stuff. It's only ever brought misery and pain.

And while we're at it, has anyone noticed the resemblance between Jordan Henderson and the kid who plays the banjo in Deliverance?

Let's be fair – Klopp hadn't nothing he didn't have a right to complain about. Everton were guilty of some obscene tackles, and it's not 'just football' as Ronnie laa says. Barkley in particular was cowardly.

To my mind, yet more excuses and bluster from Koeman trying to cover up a pitiful away record. No progress there. As bad as Burnley, Watford or Bournemouth away.

Nauseatingly predictable.

Before the game a lot on here were calling for Holgate to cover for Seamus, then when he does he gets slagged!< >We have also all been screaming for 'youth' to be given a chance, especially those in the U23s and then when they do (because we are seriously short of experienced players) they also get shot down.

I am sure Pennington is worth his place but he had no support from Jags or Williams, who I am afraid is just not good enough (despite me thinking he was a good signing at the time).

Also, before the game, loads were saying 'Don't play Barry' and then after the game its all' why was Barry not playing' !! Come on, guys – you can't have it both ways!

This is Koeman's first real big job and he hasn't had a full season yet, so far in 2017 nobody could complain about the results, today though, and against Spuds, we were exposed and shown that the squad isn't good enough, yet, but Klippety has had 3 windows to improve his team and lots of koppites still think he hasn't the squad to push higher than they are so Koeman is a long was behind with his project.

I hate hate hate getting beaten over there like any Bluenose does, but we are still recovering from Bobby Brownshoes but the signs are there things are slowly improving. I think when he left and Koeman came in, given the state we were in most of us would have settled for 7th and Europe, unless we seriously blow up we should get that goal which should be a platform to built next season and beyond.

We cant seriously think we will suddenly be top 4 contenders after the last few seasons, I hate to say it but we will have to be patient (which I am not known for, just ask the wife!) and hope that the Project keeps improving.

No doubt we will have more days like this along the way but as long as the general trend is upwards that is the main thing.

COYB !!

Will you please apply it to people who disagree with your (to my mind) rather relaxed view of what constitutes a dirty tackle? I, and others, who believe the tackle on Seamus and some of those that were committed by our own players today were reckless, are not "locked in" (last week) or "a bit silly" (this week). We just don't like rash challenges.

Reds will be giving it "WTF?!" to Koeman's comments as much as most posters on this thread, which to be honest is exactly as I'd like it given the circumstances.

We had a lot of lads out there today with very little experience at this level, never mind this kind of game, and they will have learned from it.

Ron probably knows we're in for a rough ride until the end of the season and this is his way of trying to keep our heads above water until the end. The last thing we need with a load of youngsters coming in is knocking their belief and saying to the world after getting cruised past in a derby how crap they were (and their senior colleagues) because that, sure as eggs are eggs, will do it.

We've got Man Utd at home in the week – maybe he's trying to keep morale afloat before we go in on that?

Disagree completely. It was indeed Lovren's lower shin / leg that Barkley made contact with and yes we have all seen serious injuries from that type of late challenge.

Given that Barkley had been late on a couple of occasions prior to this, he got off lightly in my opinion.

The youngsters played with fear, Pennington allowing Coutinho on to his right foot was always like giving them a present. Ross should have got a red – if that was the other way round, we would be up in arms. Robles was at fault with Williams for the third. Koeman had the balls to out Klopp.

Finally what benefit would it be to stand up and say how poor we were? That would only derail us keeping WBA at bay for the Europa League..

'All a bit Silly'? 50/50s? Ross overstretched on a ball he knew he had no chance of getting. A petulant reaction to his poor control.

Red card all day long, no excuses and it's not his first challenge in this fixture. Cowardly, inexcusable.

I think players that need replacing are Barry, Funes Mori, Stekelenburg, Jagielka, Lennon, McCarthy, Valenica so looking at possibly replacing between 8-9 players. Today has simply shown that, to be a top 4 club, you need your big players to turn up to big matches and put in big performances.

Lukaku has the club in his hands – any other player would be dropped by the Manager after that poor performance but Lukaku knows that will never happen. He has made it clear that he doesn't see himself here next season.

If Everton want to play in Europe next season, the next two matches are a must-win.

Yet, you can catch him in front of the camera chuckling away to himself like a smug kid when reminded about the fine tweet he fired off the night before a big game.

'Class' that. I half expected him to say "Flamed!" before doing an exaggerated mic drop and mooching off.

Klopp's 'convulsing six foot cock undergoing electro-shock-therapy' schtick may get old real quick, but at least he didn't spend the week leading up to the derby getting embroiled in a distracting public argument that descended into petty point-scoring.

We don't have the talent, the resolve or the nous to win these matches or achieve anything beyond being the best of the worst.

We desperately need an influx of genuine, world class talent and some players that know how to get the job done when it matters – even if they have no right to.

I have to bow to your experience and opinion with the benefit of years behind you. I pale in comparison and we both know that.

I would still, as Mike Green points out, be a Club that conducts itself with dignity and not some phony-baloney look at me sideline antic fucktard.

They should be embarrassed. They won't be... At the end of the day, losing Seamus and not having Schneids was too much.

To Mark Wilson's comments I'd also echo Mr Green. We had on the pitch for a derby at Mordor:

Calvert-Lewin, Holgate, Pennington, and Davies. At half-time we had a bottle feeding FFS!

I love those kids. They'll come good. But that was one fucking big ask today.

So I, like Koeman, am proud.

But disappointed too.

Laws of averages say they won't draw again and, as we don't do wins at big grounds, you can put your life savings on Mourinho getting a response from them with a comfortable win. Watch this space.

I have a retort, but there's no way I'm going to bother.

Getting into a match of wits with John Daley is like taking a knife to a gunfight.

I'll stand by my comment and assertions and leave it at that.

I will say, however, I'm sick to the teeth of losing to those fuckers.

It's just gotta stop.

34, 32, 32, (all defenders), 26 (GK), 26, 23, 23, 22, 20, 20, 18.

So – three players over the hill, two at their peak (the keeper might need a bit more) and 6 who are well off it.

If you put it in formation (assuming 5 at the back):

26
20 - 34 - 22 - 32 - 32
26 - 18
23 - 23 - 20

The average age ahead of our back line was 22.

We clearly have the strength in depth to get top-4 home results, so it seems to me that we should have the strength in depth to get similar away results, provided we have a winning mentality away. The home results cannot tell a lie, surely?

Poor showing and Lukaku should be dropped. It's the only way to show some players.

As Neville kept saying in commentary. Barkley and Calvert-Lewin were too wide when we didn't have the ball and Liverpool just played through. I also noticed, on the telly, that the full-backs often don't know which player/area to cover in that 3-4-3 formation.

And for Koeman to pick out the antics of Klopp also makes me question where his head's at. Is that what's uppermost in his mind after a performance like that?

We were well and truly put in our box today, just like we were against Spurs. Considering the surgery required in the summer, it's amazing we're 7th.

Joel's "effort" for the last goal was the last straw for me with him. I'd been happy for him getting his place and he often plays well but you can't have a 'keeper pull that type of shite every now and again.

Coleman's place needs replacing and Baines is getting old. I'm going to stop there because there really isn't a position on the field that doesn't need strengthening.

Oh, and Gueye really isn't as good as we thought he was, is he?

I don't expect us to improve next season. We won't be challenging for a top 5 finish. We are only a 6th or 7th finish, with some luck.

The teams above us can bank on beating us. I won't be watching any games, just keep in touch with how we are doing. I will give all the bullshit press releases a miss.

Calvert-Lewin should have come off at half-time; why Mirallas or Lookman don't start instead of him is a joke. Koeman's tactics away from home are terrible and he bottles it every away game.

Williams has been awful since the Spurs game and should have been dropped; instead, he drips Funes Mori... Jagielka has clearly gone and looks overweight but, with no cover, what can we do...

Pennington should have been right wing back with Holgate (who looked tired after his U21 game) centre-back and Jagielka should have been playing deep centre-half... controlling, dropping deep.

Today was one of the most embarrassing, spineless and inept performances I've ever seen from this club. I wasn't even a year old when we last won at Anfield and it doesn't look like that's going to change any time soon.

Lukaku wasn't arsed today; there was a point in the late stages of the game where Mirallas went on a run and fired a shot into the stands. If Rom had just run when the two centre backs separated, he was clean through. Instead, he just stood still, leaving Kev with no option other than to shoot.

I feel sorry for Pennington getting hugely blamed for the second goal, when if Gana had attempted a better tackle than a three-year-old learning to kick a ball for the first time a few seconds earlier, he wouldn't have forced us into that situation.

Our biggest problem is our mentality. For too many years we've seen ourselves as 'Plucky Little Everton', best summed out by Mr Moyes and his 'knives to a gunfight'. That is fucking ridiculous.

We have the fourth-most league titles in the country, maybe it's time we fucking act like it. We go to any big ground and we capitulate with one exception: Manchester City.

We used to always beat Man City home and away even after they came into money and that only changed in recent years when they signed world class players. Even then, we still won 4-0 this season.

It's because we were always above them, we have no inferiority complex with them like we do with Arsenal, Chelsea, Man Utd and Liverpool.

We need to start acting like a big club, we shouldn't be arguing over £2 million for our Number 1 transfer target. We shouldn't be failing to bring players into the club because we didn't try. We shouldn't have contract uncertainty over our best players, Barkley was awful today, but since January he's been brilliant and we don't want that Barkley lining up against us in a few years. And we certainly shouldn't have some away records we have. 19 years at Anfield, 20+ years at Stamford Bridge.

There's no point us having a big, shiny, new stadium if we don't act like a club that will deserve to fill it.

Maybe he's a still a little bit ticked off that one of his most important players has been crippled and another injured against his wishes under the stewardship of two blokes who clearly are only interested in their own agenda, don't give a fuck about his, and have bad-mouthed him since he came in about the relationship we have as a club with them. (We don't seem to have the same sort of issues with all the other International coaches our players play for.)

So - given you and I are a lifetime away on the periphery and we're on social media about it and he's right in the middle of the thing then if he wants to get involved he's every right to. I imagine he can multi-task well enough to handle that as he wishes and what he needed to do today without much problem.

How shocking was Robles's positioning for the first and third goals????

Really poor keeper.

I'm so shocked we never went after Joe Hart in the summer... top class vocal goalkeeper, big character.

I agree. People saying "he had no chance" are missing the point about positioning. If he decided to take a nap by the corner flag you could say "he had no chance" if a shot came in. This is no different. He wanders aimlessly about in the box so he is not in a position to react to a shot.

I wasn't aiming a shot at you personally but rather the constant, now seemingly deep-rooted, need to try and hold ourselves up as being somehow 'better' in defeat, like it's some kind of consolation for being crap for the best part of three decades. 

Take Koeman and Klopp. What is considered 'class' or 'crass' amongst supporters, when it comes to a manager's behaviour, can't help but be coloured by which dugout they're currently dumping their arse in. 

If Everton had a moderately successful manager hurling himself to his knees and skidding along the turf when someone tucked home a winner, I guarantee people on here would be lapping it up and praising his 'passion'. If he was regularly seen haranguing the 63rd official on the side-line we'd be saying 'about time we had a gaffer take no shit and get right in their face, instead of meekly accepting every call'. 

If they had a more stoic reserved type who stood there motionless, just staring straight ahead, we'd be calling him a 'dour, characterless twat' or a 'potential serial-killer/slop-badger'.

 If their manager came out and whinged about the touchline behaviour of our boss after we just handed them a beating, we'd be saying he was a 'sore loser' or trying to deflect attention away from his own sides deficiencies on the day. If our manager then refused to respond in kind, we'd be back to the cries of 'it's because we've got class and they haven't'

It's meaningless.

I'd just rather have the 3 points and then ruthlessly rub their fucking noses in it, in the most classless way possible.

Link

Of course I'm not in the middle of it as you described it. I meant on ToffeeWeb. What else could I possibly have meant?

Sure, he should be able to multi-task, although by the way his team was set up you'd wonder.

The point is, that close to a big game he should be focused on the game in hand.

From a PR point of view he should be aware that a moaning prick like myself, and others, are likely to jump on his and O'Neill's persistent tit-for-tat argument as childish, especially when he takes to twitter to air his views.

As for your rant about the injuries; McCarthy, one of his most important players? We truly are fucked if that's the case.

I think Coleman is injured against everyone's wishes but there was no suggestion he shouldn't have played last week.

And why would O'Neill give a shit about Everton anyway? Does Koeman give a shit about Ireland? Of course not.

I haven't seen anything to suggest he's more honest than any other manager. He's just got less tact.

I called him a conman early in the season and nothing has changed my mind. He's happy to fail unless he's had a fortune to spend. He takes no responsibility for this team. He's worse than Moyes for convincing people to accept mediocrity.

I'm 44 now. The last time we won at Anfield I was 26. Tom Davies was 15 months old.

I remember it well because it was two days after I got married, the day we flew to Greece on honeymoon. So I can count my wedding anniversaries by the last time we won at Anfield.

Back then, we were renting a one bedroom flat, experts were predicting an IT apocalypse, Walkman's and floppy discs were the norm and nothing was more reassuringly exotic than going down to Blockbusters to hire a video for a Friday night. It would be a further 8 years before we banned smoking in pubs – which was a decade ago.

Since then we've bought a house and cleared a mortgage, had two kids, one of whom is in secondary school, the other is close, the country has been embroiled in one of the longest conflicts in its history, we've voted to leave the European Union and there's been a referendum on the break up of the Union to go with it, had a recession, experienced 9/11 and experienced the catastrophes that have panned out after it and thousands of other milestones and events in between.

But we – one of the most decorated clubs in English Football – can't get a team together in that time that can get a three points from Anfield is a complete fucking disgrace.

I've filled two prams in that time, the youngest of whom wears his Everton kit with total pride whilst his mates run around him in U10s training in their Liverpool, Chelsea, Man Utd and Man City tops. He watches a game like me and you and will shout out "shoot", "touch", "give it" and "foul ref" but was born 6 years after the last time we won at Anfield. He's got 3 girlfriends FFS, which I've explained to him will only end badly but fuck me at least the boy's trying.

So – taking all of that into account, our record is shameful. Its not as if Liverpool are that fucking good!

Get your shit together Everton. Grow Up.

I didn't see the tweet until you mentioned it but you have a point. He has a Mr Cool persona going back to when he pummeled David Platt but that tweet shows he can get emotionally side-tracked. The night before the derby, O'Neill and Twitter should be the furthest thing from his mind.

I'm not touchy, I just don't like hypocrisy.

I think we were outplayed. I hear a lot (most seasons) that 'this is the worst Liverpool team for years' and I get pulled along and mostly think it too. Why?

They're currently above us and have had some great results against the bigger teams. They're being applauded for their style and energy and Klopp's impression on the squad is probably starting to bear fruit after a time at the helm. They're a good team.

Hell, Brendan is generally considered a failure by Liverpool fans, and a laughing stock by us, but he managed 2nd and also managed one of the world's fearsome strikers to superstardom. His 'shit' teams also embarrassed us.

I'm not blowing smoke up their arses and it kills me to say it but they were just better today – but they have been over a lengthy period of time. And they've always got the better of us in the derby.

I have no problem with Koeman's assessment. We were made to look shit by a better team. He knows that. But he also knows we were patched up. Seamus and Morgan were a huge miss. He took a gamble that our young team would gel and the passion would see us through. It could have been a shock to the opposition and on another day our first mistake would not have led to their first goal.

Our young local player scores and we're right back in it. Another mistake and our renewed optimism is shattered. 2nd half and we have the better possession and a massive improvement, another mistake and it's 3.

Koeman sees all this and sees commitment from his players, a better team, 100% effort and some bad luck That's how I see it now and I also felt proud.

If I can gain 5 stone in that time, the least we can go do is earn 3 points.

My thoughts:

i) Was very happy, delighted in fact ,with the team selection and shape before kick off.

ii) My delight turned to anguish after 20 minutes as could see Pennington is not ready and Calvert-Lewin looked out of his depth. I expected a 30 min sub we've seen before. It didn't come.

iii) My anguish turned into horror after half time when Koeman kept the same team and shape, seemingly blind to what he had seen.

iv) My horror turned into utter despair that no changes were made until we went 3-1 down.

v) My utter despair turned into giggles (what else can you do but laugh?) when Calvert-Lewin was left on the pitch until after 80 mins, despite him and Lukaku trying to win the 'i can touch the ball less than you' contest.

vi) My giggles turned into raised eyebrows and several 'seriously, what the fuck!!!' shouts when I hear Koeman's post match presser.

Koeman, how can you be proud of that weak arse team who showed zero fight or application? Utter ridiculous Martinez-esque comments.

I tell you what you should have said:

"I selected some young lads who hadn't played too much but it didn't work on this occasion. I left my change of tactics much too late along with my subs.

"Barkley's tackle was reckless, but he is dumb as fuck and his decision-making is useless 99% of the time anyway. Lukaku will keep the same shirt for next week as he didn't even run today so it has no sweat on it. Oh and the apprentice who normally cleans his boots can get the day off.

"Those fuckwits across the park were the better side, my team were shite for most of it, and not for the first time, they bottled it but then again I didn't help one tiny bit with anything I did – I apologise to the fans."

Grrrr.... Fucking dreadful!!!!!! Useless arseholes.

There is still a huge job to be done.

Why did Can make 7 fouls before being booked? The yellow he did get if he caught Gana (I think who saw it coming and swerved it) would have been red?

Can gets fouled and rolls round like he had a broken leg then gets up and carries on like nothing happened?

Pennington should have been hooked at half-time? Holgate surely should have been in the back three that was seriously lacking pace.

What was Robles doing for the third?

Where's Lennon?

All our crosses in to the box and no end product?

Four teenagers starting in a derby?

I could go on all night...

In his mother tongue he is a "Preis Möse", which I think might mean "Prime Cunt".

That type of response is exactly why I refuse to "get into it" with long-time posters like you I respect.

Too intelligent. Too on the mark.

It IS ABSOLUTELY a question of perspective. Yes, you'd get responses "the other way" if we'd have won 4-0 and our gaffer was "showing passion" acting the fool, going nuts with each goal; all the while we decry the "dour one" who sits stone-faced watching no matter how the game goes...

Overall I want dignity. I don't want a showboat manager acting the cheerleader jumping up and down - cue the Pom-pons.

I, like you, just want a win.

And what truly kills me - and I mean this sincerely,,,

TW can change your life if you aren't a cradle-born Blue. You read these posts and see the passion. The want and desire to rise to the top from SO MANY PEOPLE.

And when you see this game that means SO MUCH to those who have lived it, and you take on their mantle - you feel their hopes, pains, desires... you want it so bad.

Not only for yourself but for THEM. The true, true Blues who have been there their whole lives. It's part of their fabric and being.

You, and I mean myself as an outsider, become a supporter of the team - but more importantly a supporter of the SUPPORTERS - the fans you read and see their contributions and how they'd give their spleen to rise to the top again...

When the pain hits and you lose to THEM...

At least, at the very least...

You lose with DIGNITY. CLASS.

And THAT, my dear John, is SOMETHING.

Class, dignity, do it right. Don't jump up and down on the touch line like a four-eyed baboon.

In the name of Dixie, Ball, and the Holy Southall. Amen.

It's infuriating to see Mirallas come on and play like that for just 10 minutes. He's the kind of narky, skillful player that's perfect for derbies. He's so egotistical in a way that means he has no respect and just plays as he always does. He's also up for the fight. So why didn't we start him or bring him on much earlier! Infuriating! Valencia plays with energy too so why not start him!

We played poorly in the midfield and lacked composure. Why not start with Barry and take him off after 60 when we've established hopefully a foothold.

I could go on. That's what's so frustrating about yesterday, not just the stupid result which is crushing enough. I hate losing to them. Just hate it.

I've ignored every text and social media mention by my jovial RS friends and family but I'm just so tired of their derby dominance all my life pretty much and I'm 43!

Robles wandering on the first goal leaving the virtual whole goal to his left was inviting Mane to put the ball in that corner, it was rank amateur.

The third goal looks worse every time you see it from the replays shown down the middle, where the hell is he going?? Why is he wandering away before Origi has struck what was a very preventable shot even for a 10-year-old??

No way would you have seen a Neville Southall or Nigel Martyn concede a schoolboy goal like that.

I'm disappointed that what with the millions we had last summer we didn't rectify certain positions of weakness and I'll be even more disappointed this summer if all we do is sign more defensive midfield options.

We are crying out for a top goalkeeper, commanding keeper, a commanding central defender with pace is imperative.

A substitute or replacement right-back depending on Coleman's progression.

I think Baines needs replacing at some point, at nearly 33 his best years are now gone and he's not going to get any better now.

Absolute necessity that we find a genuine creative central midfielder, and no I do not sit looking at Opta indexes and feel satisfied that Barkley is that answer; watching Everton every week and I know Barkley is not the footballing brain that we need desperately, we haven't had one since the Arteta days . This is where Steve Walsh needs to earn his crust.

Games like yesterday, Spurs, Chelsea in November, and our basic ineptitude away from home all season tells us there's still so much work to be done yet.

I do think Koeman needs to make life easier for himself in certain games too by being a bit more savvy, he had chances at half-time to change that game as well as beforehand but made no impact.

Tuesday will tell us if anything has been worked on.

Got me thinking what's happened to me in the same period – not as interesting or as productive .let's hope we don't have to wait as long for a win. On the upside, we can hear how your grand children are getting on. :)

He must of seen that we were not good enough, the score line showed that, never mind the individual performances. Man Utd like the RS are there for the taking. Footballs a game of opinions, my opinion differs greatly from Koeman's but if he is trying to keep a lid on it I can see why.

There's no doubt we need a keeper, 2 centre-halves and a number 10 at least. Plus although we've got rid of the fringe players in the last window it's now time to replace most of our first team players with better players.

On another note, you have to question why Deulofeu was allowed to leave when Barkley, who they must see everyday, is so poor. We were crying out for someone who could stretch them yesterday and make them play on the back foot. Surely it's time to play Lookman and Mirallas with Lukaku.

I'm still with Koeman and think he ll get it right but it's a bigger job than we thought, and failing against a poor RS side in that manner showed it, despite his post-match interview.

You do wonder why Koeman allowed Deulofeu to leave on loan. I could maybe understand if we got a big fee but why on loan and when he knew Bolasie was gone? Lennon obviously out of favour.

I'm not sure I'm keen on no wingers in away games, I saw us at Middlesbrough, Stoke, yesterday and various others and frankly we look very narrow, Lukaku drifting out wide to cross the ball himself.

Games like yesterday could have been perfect for a Deulofeu: okay he's erratic, but his direct nature and pace gave sides something to think about, there was never any shape yesterday.

I'd have had Lookman or Valencia ahead of Calvert-Lewin but first choice would have been Mirallas regardless of him playing for Belgium; I'd have given him the first hour.

No mention of their awful behaviour in the media, I notice; if that was Everton we'd be prosecuted for inciting a riot but for the RedShite it's okay!

Is it too much to ask them to act with a little bit of dignity? Pathetic and worrying... one day it will turn ugly.

Klopp is not our problem, I'm not really interested in his antics, we know he's eccentric but the fact is he's done a number on Everton three times now in a year and sometimes, as much as I think Koeman has done well, I wish he'd be a little less laid back and get a bit more bouncy like Klopp.

We were poor and if our players were on the receiving end of the tackles made by Barkley and Williams then we'd be slating them too. We were dross, we've been done over again in what has now become the most one sided derby match in the Premier League.

Klopp is not our concern. I'm far more concerned with:

"Has Koeman and the players learned anything from yesterday in time for Tuesday?"

"Why didn't we learn after the Spurs game last month?"

"Why no wingers anymore in games crying out for one?"

I left a burning bag of shit outside someone's door too. You'd be okay with Koeman doing that too then?

As for Barkley's tackle,it was clearly a straight red. You could see Lovren's shin bending as Barkley put all his weight and momentum on it. A dreadful challenge from a player who had a mare.

Getting involved with Klopp when you've been beaten, again, could be deflection to protect the team, but Klopp came out the bigger man after the post-matches.

For weeks now, my mate has been asking questions of Gana's weakness in the tackle. Against Watford, he got absolute bullied and I think in time we will see how much we need more power in the middle.

What an engine though?

Maybe he was really trying to say:

"Apart from the pinball goal we scored, I am really proud of the fact that my boys kept the score down to three, instead of nine. Also that raging baboon in their technical area, needed to be taken out with a horse tranquiiser."

I'm fed up seeing these overrated players just going through the motions.
I'm fed up to see flat-footed keepers watching the ball go past them with just a turn of the head.
I'm fed up seeing defenders shy away and turn their backs on the ball when a shot comes in.
I'm fed up with trial by media pundits highlighting and over-hyping what used to be everyday challenges – it's football you play with your feet you can get kicked I didn't see a deliberate dirty tackle.

I did see over-reaction to any kind of tackle that made contact; I did see Mane jump over a Davies challenge and react to get the lad booked.

Proud? Not many from either side to be genuinely proud of. Oh, and the game was a pretty poor standard without the blood and thunder of yesteryear.

The two he made before that could have been yellows though. Saved by then being so early in the game (then Tom got cautioned as a result).

Yeah, it all came across as deflection - no point in him giving the team a kicking at this point, especially the youngsters, they just weren't good enough.

That said, I still think he got it wrong again after getting it wrong for Spurs too – even after the injury problems he has.

Reality bites, we aren't a top six team on the day.

If Man Utd really want it, like Spurs and Liverpool, I don't see us being able to put up enough resistance.

I hope that behind the scenes, that is all registering and that it results in some reaction during the summer.

An above average team and Rom isn't going to break into the top 4.

Give the press something to bite onto for the headlines grabbers in order to deflect attention from that fact that:

A. Koemans selection/tactics were crap;
B. The players were woeful;
C. Barkley had his worst game in an Everton shirt;
D. In light of Coleman's injury and everyone being up in arms with Taylor, Barkley's tackle was worse and should have been a red card.

This is not in mitigation but when you are trying to recover from an error of losing the initiative when in a potentially threatening position one can be over zealous. Anyway lucky boy indeed. We would be all over it if it had been in reverse.

As for Joel. I am totally in agreement with all his critics about yesterday's showing. No effort to save any of them. I have just been watching Zaha's against Chelsea. Very similar angle, Courtois unsighted but got down and nearly made it. I couldn't have knocked Joel if he had ended up on the deck after any of them but was spectating as I aw it.

This post made me both laugh and almost reduced me to tears. The human context illustrates everything crystal clear. But, my overwhelming response is a furious rage at my club.

A generation of standing still. A generation of being nice. A generation of holding open the door. All of this brought to you courtesy of "Baron Hardup" and the pantomime dames.

Thanks Mike, it's a belter of a posting; I completely agree.

Being a top centre-half, would Koeman have been happy if his manager told him he needed a 3rd centre-half today and one who hasn't played all season?
He made a mess of the team because Coleman is out, simple as that really. It wasn't mentality... it was mental from Koeman.

Maybe the derby isn't so important in the short term. Long-term view will be to start winning these games but, until we can match their quality and professionalism, we will just have to grin and bear it. The seventies was worse in my opinion.

As mentioned repeatedly, our side over too many years just turn up and forget to actually want it – something uncoachable. Must be an Everton trait - as unfortunately is just getting completely used to it, but made 200% worse, because we are playing just an average, everyday side with pace who are defensively naive, poor. And a manager who can react, discuss & laugh all he likes – but his team do the talking, on the pitch, again and again!!!

Do you honestly believe that a Koeman is that bad I'd suggest you're still pissed off at both the result, the manner of it, and post-match interview.

If any of the team that played yesterday wanted to play elsewhere, then good look to them. I'd suggest they've all peaked bar Davies, Holgate and Gana.

We are short of class, pace and a desire to win. This summer will be interesting; I'd expect a clear-out of our big names and it's maybe what we need. We'll need to pay over the odds for players and massive wages, like Man City did, but it worked for them.

That way, we can make a proper effort of getting a positive result away from Goodison Park against half-decent sides on a regular basis – and, if we can't do that, then what's the point in even considering Europe???

Tactics were cowardly and just plain wrong. Exactly like the Spurs game. 5 at the back doesn't work unless you have the right players available.

Barkley was abysmal but he wasn't the only one. Robles – just embarrassing. Pennington and Calvert-Lewin shouldn't have been starting that game and were way out of their depth; Holgate too.

Disastrous from start to finish.

To be fair to Koeman he didn't have an awful lot of choice given the injuries and slating the younger players doesn't help anyone. Jags, Williams and Robles were all very poor indeed and I thought Holgate did okay as did Davies.

As usual on here, Barkely has to carry the can, in my opinion his biggest crime was that he tried too hard at times and certainly showed he cared given the tackles he put in.

For those people who have been holding up Koeman as some kind of saviour perhaps this is a reality check for them, at least he looked and sounded pissed off about losing, as we all are.

You understand the annotation made when we play poor but comfortably win, right? That is football, the result is all that matters but the result does not always reflect the full game.

Football is indeed a funny auld game, but far too many people look at the result and ignore the rest. If Calvert-Lewin scored that header and Ashley Williams got a foot in that tap in near the goal then that could of been 3-2 which I imagine most folk wouldn't of said it was as bad then.

But never mind eh? Let's just stick to blaming Koeman for us having to field our kids and as the result says, 3-1 must mean we were 100% totally crap, all the game.

Obviously the script hadn't been read."They don't like it up them you know..."

FWIW I had been misinformed re the Anfield match; I was told the players had a prior engagement... therefore, a charity game would take place instead. Something about EitC helping our neighbours... then I realized it was April 1st.

The biggest disappointment for me yesterday was Robles. How he could run off his line so far to narrow the angle and at the same time commit himself to one side so early, and then not react in the other direction, at least with an outstretched arm, was just unbelievable to watch. Shame because he did himself proud in earning back a lot of respect in recent weeks. A new goalie next season is our top priority.

I think of the athleticism of Pickford, Krul, Heaton, Butland, etc and the commanding presence of Hart and Foster and such like and it makes me want to weep.

Will Stekelenburg be back between the sticks against Man Utd, I wonder...

Except, needless to say, his players are duly released to play for Ireland, including the Scottish lad.

JS: "The problem we have is that the manager is that bad that some of the players we have will be looking away and transferable players won't want to join us."

JS: "This Manager is no better than what we had in the previous two Managers. I won't be watching any games, just keep in touch with how we are doing."

1. 'Some' want away; please supply evidence (note the plural).

2. 'Transferable' players won't join us. Any idea who?

3. Erm your reasoning is your asinine tiny tiny tiny tiny minority view of our manager.

4. Koeman is no better than Martinez! That is an opinion. Absolutely it is and good for you, lad, run with it. It's also total garbage in my opinion.

5. Why do you bother?

6. Oh no! Jerome ain't going to watch the match any more! A hole opens in the Everton 'family'.

7. I'm off to read #84 again.

"How do I cope with Klopp's high tempo gagging pressing? We need to counter with speed and fitness, I'd better leave out some of those older players like Barry.

Wait a minute, we have a lot of injuries at the moment, who do I put in the team? I know, why don't I fill it with youngsters who can run around at pace all day.

Wait a minute, it is a derby game, a good time to play uninitiated schoolboys? Maybe not, and I am also missing some width in this team.

Wait a minute, I've loaned out my wingers...

Wait a minute, has anyone got any transcripts from Roberto from last season's games?"

Honestly, I do like and trust the guy most times...

https://www.sportsjoe.ie/football/liverpool-fans-seamus-colemans-chant-119034

Err ... hang on, wait a minute... no, still nothing.

If he was proud, he was either telling lies or protecting certain players but I don't think he could have really felt this way?

A winner is usually a very bad loser, and I think that Koeman, knowing he had fucked up, had decided he was going to have a go at Klopp which bolds well for the future, but only if he's good enough to improve us?

Is he good enough? Well he's made quite a few big tactical mistakes against the better teams away from Goodison, but I could see a man who was hurting whilst getting interviewed after yesterday's game, and I think/hope the message to Klopp was "I'm fucking going to make my team better than yours!"

I'd love to know who you're kidding with that line: "I'm fucking going to make my team better than yours." Not in a hundred years would he be able to do that. Because basically he's tactically brain dead And, in my opinion, he will turn out to be no better or worse than the previous incumbent.

His team selection and set-up yesterday must have had the RedShite's management rubbing their hands... And didn't our showing prove it? As much as this pains me, Koeman will not improve us... not one bit. Yes, the home form has vastly improved but, in this league, you have to play away as well. And that, Tony, is where we are found wanting.

I honestly fancied us to lose to them and to beat Man Utd. Now I'm certain it won't happen. The man is as negative away as Moyes was. For fuck's sake, at least Martinez tried to get us to win games!!!

Anyway, on the other matter of the inter-manager friction, whether it's Koeman - O'Neill or Koeman - Klopp, or that disgraceful fight between two Scottish managers who's names I can't remember, what the fuck is going on?

These high profile managers seem to form a cult of personalities, wanting to be the big cheese, craving for centre of attention, acting like they are more important than the clubs who employ them. Why can't they do business discreetly, behind closed doors, and let their teams do the talking for them?

I've come to think that there's a lot of bullshit with high profile managers. They seem to be overpaid for what they do. £6M per year for away tactics that are shite, and petty feuds with other millionaire managers? It seems to me they act like autocrats with little or no flexibility, pissing talented players off in the process with their rigid instructions that so often don't work. I bet if you put 11 talented players on the pitch, they could sort themselves out no worse, and perhaps better, than under the instruction of these managerial prima donnas.

In our case, perhaps we should appoint Rhino as our manager, he'd no doubt accept a lot less salary, probably wouldn't get involved in bullshit feuds, and would have a good chance of extracting better performances, from players who might actually want to fight for him on the pitch?

Is he in our hearts, do we find him inspiring, most importantly does he inspire the players and does he give them confidence with tactical excellence and strong man-mangement? I suspect the answer to all those questions is "no".

I find myself veering around with this man in charge: I have liked the way he seemed to have brought on Barkley (until yesterday), I have liked his arrogance and dismissal of people like O'Neill, and I have liked the change in home form.

And yet, he doesn't somehow hit the mark. Our woeful Cup exits, our confused and cowardly away performances, not only against the top sides, are damning. More worryingly, we lack any discernible style or strategy, even in outline.

I looked a fool after calling for his head last time and I'm not going to make the same mistake after a derby defeat. But I don't think Evertonians have truly taken to this man, and for good reason so far.

At the end of the day, we have to remember that he's a very senior manager. It's not dissimilar to senior managers in business. They won't rush to take responsibility for things they haven't had control over. Reputations get damaged and jobs get lost when you start doing that.

Every now and then, you might get a great leader. Someone who sees it as their job to inspire, organise and help people aspire to something even if they have to brave the risk of being the fall guy.

Of the latter category, I'd see Joe Royle as being the only one we've had since the 90s. Martinez wanted to be that type of leader but just didn't have it in him. I can respect Roberto for trying though.

The fella we've got right now is a good manager. He'll pretty much get out of this team what the club invests. His own career and reputation will continue to come first though.

I truly thought we would win this game; I have to agree with the posters defending Koeman's comments. He looked like a man hurt and embarrassed. Let's hope he learns as his employers will not give him a bollocking.

Let's just see if the board back him this summer, but wait a minute they already have the excuse of building a new stadium, this too is a smoke screen to sell season tickets for the next few seasons... In the mean time the press are loving that arse licking RS and everything Klopp is about..

A good performance is needed on Tuesday but we say that after every derby. My son was too young to attend the match the last time we beat the RS at Anfield, just glad I was there to see it.

Happy days, blues fans all over the world. As the song goes, "Things can only get better".

Your confession, if I can put it that way is exactly my thoughts on Koeman and his tenure.

A questionable appointment as his body of managerial work hadn't convinced me. My pulse never barely ticked up on his announcement.

I found him stubborn and error-strewn in his selections, watching on as his 'strength' to change a flawed selection mid-game lauded to a point, is a recurring error. Forced into picking younger players as form, injuries to a point, and tactics deserted him.

I did call for his sacking, felt we'd erred badly in his appointment. Premature, absolutely. However, he has done what is to my mind just repair the damage of the last two season so progress is welcome but not as significant as some might have you believe.

He has given himself time, and it's deserved. My bar was European football and with it comes more income, potential to attract better players and more games to entrench his system. He has achieved that.

Like yourself I am unlikely to ever take to the man I and remain unconvinced, his away record is particularly difficult to swallow. You say veering from one point to another and that is it in a nutshell.

The one thing I cannot shake is the cup exits. I always hope for a decent run. He treated those games shabbily, unforgivable.

I certainly will give him a fairer crack of the whip, but will not stint in a rebuke if he drifts.

Now in my 50 years as a matchgoing Blue (admittedly the first few too young to remember), I've seen many influential players: Ball, Lyons, Reid, Cahill to name a few, so I think I know a bit about our players. So I agree with what Mike said, and have to ask you have you only been interested in Everton for the the last two and a half seasons?

As I've said here before, I don't think you are as much an Everton fan as an Ireland fan.

Mirallas played an (almost) full game for Belgium where he scored only a few days prior. That's why he didn't start.

He said he was proud, but he's a winner, so there was nothing to be proud of, and I think in private he will be fuming at himself for the way we set up; also for expecting more out of the team with the way we were set up to play.

Our away form against the better teams especially is absolutely horrible but I think it's been this way for a very long time, and I don't know why people are so optimistic when Everton play away from Goodison Park?

Is Ronald Koeman good enough? I will form a much better opinion around Christmas, but although he set us up wrong on Saturday, I think we lost to both Spurs and Liverpool because they both play much more like a team, and work so much harder collectively than we do at the minute.

Unless we stand up to these pricks, we'll never get any respect in the game; for years and years, we just take unjustified stick and say nothing. I admire Ron for speaking up for Everton. Well done!

Great perspective by Jamie Crowlie, understand your feelings on Everton and being an Evertonian, you are as good a Bluenose as any on here, write more often Jamie.

John Daley, yes we just want success – I'm not worried about how the manager comes across, think Catterick and Shankly – introvert and extrovert, but both winners.

Alan Green, fantastically witty and moving post. Jamie Crowley, you are not an outsider. Also backs up what I already know that we have the best supporters in the country by a mile.

But, as John Daley points out, it all means fuck all this morning as they, yet again, have the 3 points.

Mick (#142), no rant, and Mike already pointed out my error regarding his important player post. Try to read the full thread before going on a rant.

I've no idea what the rest of your post is about. You've been going to Everton games for 50 years, you've seen a lot of influential players and you agree with Mike.

Mike was telling me that Koeman has the right to on social media less than a day before the derby to continue his tit-for-tat row with O'Neill.

I've no idea how you seeing Everton for 50 years has anything to do with that, or how long I've been watching them has either. Maybe you'd enlighten me.

On to the game, is anyone else fucking sick of us barely putting opposition and shite keepers under pressure? We don't shoot enough and we are piss poor at playing a proper counter-attacking system at Mordor and the other grounds we don't win in. I think it might be best if Lukaku went and we got a smaller, pacy type of striker who will help in these games.

Klopp is a total gobshite a lot of the time but he at least has passion which it seems Ronnie doesn't. Although Klippity is overrated, he's no better than Brendan Rodgers. People go on about his success at Dortmund which is alright but Dortmund are hardly a small club, they've always been one of Jerry's biggest clubs.

We need to start keeping the ball better in these games if we want to have a chance. Too often we gift the opposition the ball with stupid passes and hoofs up to Lukaku who is not a target man.

As for Barkley, he was brought up hating the likes of Gerrard. He just reacted the way any of us would given the chance: get stuck in and do the twats.

Disapointing, but still only 3 points

No he didn't. He more than likely spent about an hour writing a statement and then replied once on Twitter. Hardly "the whole week".

He again got his tactics wrong and having injured players is no excuse to throw kids who barely played together into the snakepit. We had 4 centre-halves on the field, 1 defensive mid, 1 centre mid, 1 attacking mid, 1 left back and two strikers. Gaps were everywhere and nobody had any support. We were all over the place. It looked as if there was hardly any preparation at all.

Irrespective of what team was out there wearing the Everton shirt, they weren't very good – from the goalkeeper to our star midfielder to our star £70 million striker.

I predicted a draw but wasn't surprised at all, because it is just the norm.

I know we have some mental block when playing the top teams but we always set up too defensively in these games which basically admits defeat with a "try not to lose" gameplan.

Lesser sides continuously beat the top sides, look at Palace at Chelsea. Burnley, Swansea, Wolves at Mordor.

Kenny could have played right back with Mirallas and Valencia both starting instead of Pennington and Calvert-Lewin.

I can't agree with your final statement "disappointed but still only 3 points". They are nine points ahead of us but won both derbies, had we have won both we would be 3 points ahead of then now – six points more for us and six less for them.

In layman's terms, the difference between them qualifying for the Champions League and us not, therefore having a huge impact on the likelihood of us attractng or keeping the better players. So to me it's not just 3 points we lose every time we fail in the derby.

If you don't know how important McCarthy is, then why do you defend O'Neill, who does everything in his power to get him playing – even when injured?

You really do tie yourself up in knots over your beloved Ireland, yet don't seem to care about how it all affects Everton...

I posted what you quoted, I made a mistake which was pointed out to me and then you decided to point it out again. Where am I forgetting something?

Let me quote you now; "If you don't know how important McCarthy is, then why do you defend O'Neill, who does everything in his power to get him playing – even when injured."

What kind of gibberish is this? In my opinion, McCarthy is not an important player for either Everton or Ireland. Unfortunately, O'Neill values him highly, hence his desperation to play him against Wales. Where are am I tying myself up in knots?

I post on ToffeeWeb as I see it. It's fairly clear to me why O'Neill would pick McCarthy. I don't particularly like O'Neill but I don't see it as a matter of taking sides. A man of your footballing experience surely doesn't see football as black and white. Surely managers, players etc say things you both agree with and disagree with?

And your last line, yip they are my beloved Ireland and yes I care more about the team representing the county of my birth and upbringing than I do of an English club team. Relevance to anything: zero.

I suppose YOU see football as 'Black and White' and, if a player is not scoring plenty of goals, he's crap. You don't appreciate the not-so-obvious hard work on and off the ball by the likes of Gueye, Schneiderlin and McCarthy – Barry's limited mobility wasn't apparent in that first season, as his partner was shouldering the burden – remember the banner about two thirds of the earth?

Also, can we give this "50 years an Evertonian" bollocks a rest? It does zero to strengthen any discussion. Yes, there's a bunch of us have been around a while... doesn't mean our opinion is any better or worse for the experience, sadly. Thanks.

Maybe he was but players don't look any more fit to me now. He has complaints about Van Gaal, O'Neill, Keane, Klopp all to deflect attention from his own failings. If his formations fail to work, it is either players' fault or he talks up poor performances.

McCarthy has had hamstring issues going back to Martinez's time. What is Koeman doing about it? Does he not bear some responsibility?

His response to every problem,and he has major problems,is to try to deflect and apportion blame to others. He is under huge pressure. I'm not sure he is up to it.

So I am wondering apart from the players that were injured who would of course have played, the young players who did play have no history against Liverpool so could simply play their game without any negative past experience so no mental block.

The only question that they had to answer is can they cope with the pressure of this match and of course some did better than others. The one thing that came out of this match was that the young players have a clear understanding of the levels that they need to reach.

Shane, no hard feelings, comment retracted. I'm sure we both want a win at the Theatre of Fiends so COYB

I had an argument years ago with a genuine fella, a red fan, he'd followed Liverpool for years and years but had packed in going. Liverpool got to the FA Cup Final, he felt he was entitled to a cup final ticket. I told him if another fan who had started following Liverpool just recently but had a season ticket, he was more entitled to get a cup final ticket than him because he had packed in going to see his team. He wouldn't have it.

I don't think a long-standing supporter is better than a younger fan because he has been going longer, the younger fan could be a lot more passionate than the older fan and he might be more knowledgeable as well.

Just to clarify, I'm Everton mad (embarrassingly so for an Irishman), I'm a proud Ireland fan, I'm an Everton fan of 30 years but rarely go to the game. I think McCarthy has his benefits but 90% of them are when his team don't have the ball and so overall he wouldn't be in my team. I like O'Neill's passion but he's a bit embarrassing also; and I think Koeman should rise above O'Neill's shit.

COYB.