Everton face fresh calls to ban vile newspaper

Friday 14 April 2017  262 Comments  [Jump to last]
Updated Everton are receiving renewed pressure to follow Liverpool FC's lead in banning The Sun newspaper from all access to the club following a disgraceful article on Ross Barkley by Kelvin MacKenzie.

MacKenzie, already a pariah on Merseyside for his reprehensible coverage of the 1989 Hillsborough disaster, penned a piece today attacking Barkley's intelligence and likening him to an ape in the wake of the bar incident last Sunday.

Leaked CCV footage showed the 23-year-old was punched in the face by an unnamed man while out in Liverpool following the 4-2 win over Leicester City and MacKenzie used his column to degrade the midfielder and the city of Liverpool.

Having succeeded in persuading Liverpool FC to block the newspaper entirely from attending press conferences at Melwood and covering matches at Anfield, the TotalEclipseOfTheSun campaign turned its attentions to Everton last month.

The group staged a protest with taxis emblazoned with their logo and messaging outside Goodison Park urging the club to ban the paper which has been boycotted by the people of Merseyside ever since Hillsborough.

In a ToffeeWeb poll run around the same time as the demonstration that received 4,622 votes, 75% of respondents agreed that Everton should follow Liverpool in banning the organ from all interaction with the club.

MacKenzie's article is now under investigation by police following an official complaint from Mayor Joe Anderson who described it as "racist and prehistoric" and a hate crime.

In the meantime, The Sun's owner News UK have announced MacKenzie's suspension with immediate effect, claiming that his words were not the view of the paper and that they were unaware of Barkley's Nigerian heritage on his father's side.  


Reader Comments (262)

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Eugene Ruane
1 Posted 14/04/2017 at 11:15:00
Recently on TW, in light of Liverpool FC's banning of The Sun, there was a 'should the Sun be banned from to doing business at Goodison/Finch Farm?' poll (can't find it so paraphrasing).

I lazily clicked the 'Yes' button and waited for the percentage.

My guess was that maybe there'd be 3 or 4 percent so bitter and blind that they'd press whatever narked reds.

The result genuinely shocked (and depressed me).

25% had pressed 'No'

To be clear, 25% of Twers who participated decided - 'No..don't ban the Sun'

"Yeah but we don't know how many voted, might have only been a couple of.."

4600+ voted, so well over a thousand for no ban.

At the time I left it, didn't even mention it on here, but I do so now because I saw this earlier on twitter Link

Barkley is basically portrayed as an ape (specifically by Kelvin McKenzie).

And you know who they're/he's talking about as well as Ross?

You!

Try to get your head around this, apart from their lies about the victims of Hillsborough, this putrid arse-wipe continually sells the idea (to mouth-breathers around the rest of the country) that our city is a shit-hole and the people who live and work here are more or less a different species – idle, feckless, thieving, violent and dumb.

One more thing, people can vote how they want but do me a favour, next time a debate gets heated and someone replies (to me) with "Look, we're all Evertonians, we shouldn't be..." they can get fucked.

Rob Halligan
2 Posted 14/04/2017 at 11:23:31
Disgusting slur on our city that, Eugene. This piece of vermin should be sacked from that rag.
Dave Ganley
3 Posted 14/04/2017 at 12:40:54
I totally agree, Eugene. I hate that rag and I hate that gobshite Mackenzie. Never so much as read a page from that idiot paper since Hillsborough. I can't believe anybody from Liverpool would.

This totally transcends Everton/Liverpool rivalries, as you say Hillsborough was a cacophony of lies against the people of Liverpool and as that article suggest, yet another pop at us. I am staggered 25% voted not to ban that rag.

Chris Williams
4 Posted 14/04/2017 at 13:01:26
Eugene, that is a really mean spirited comment from McKenzie you have linked to on your post.

I am not surprised or even disappointed by it because that particular individual is totally marinated in his own prejudices and spends his time feeding the prejudices of others,alongside arsewipes with similar prejudices and purposes which don't need naming.

I can't even get angry any more because he and the Neanderthals who 'read 'this shite are truly beyond redemption and predictably live down to the lowest expectations.

It just makes me sad that in the society we have created there is clearly a need and a demand for such bilge.

Chris Williams
5 Posted 14/04/2017 at 13:53:38
I've just read the full article and it is even worse than I thought.

Joey Barton and Stan Collymore have got properly stuck into those morons at that benighted rag and Joe Anderson has had a go at the club for not banning it and it's supposed journalists.

Hopefully now we might see some reaction from Everton FC.

Tony Abrahams
6 Posted 14/04/2017 at 13:59:51
I voted, and I voted with the other 25%. Why should Everton ban The Sun after all these years? was my own opinion. The Sun is the name of the rag but the people who were behind this rag's reporting of Hillsborough (the real lying scumbag bastards) have never really been that personally affected for peddling such lies.

McKenzie has shown what a fucking hypocrite he really his, because he obviously never really meant his phoney apology, but how much power does Murdoch have in all of this?

South Yorkshire Police, The Thatcher Government, and The English FA, were all three equally guilty in this disaster for different reasons, in my opinion, and although going after a newspaper is fine, it's nowhere near fine enough for me.

The fella who just walked away from TalkSport, or the fella who has just refused to go on the honours list are the real heroes to me because they are simply pointing at "The Real Truth" and are also stretching their own principles a lot further than anyone who subscribes to Rupert Murdoch's Sky TV.

Ian McDowell
7 Posted 14/04/2017 at 14:11:55
Tony, I'm with you in the 25%. Why ban The Sun after all these years?

Colin Murray, who walked away from TalkSport, is obviously a man of principle who I have a lot of respect for, but there are many ex-RS players and managers working for Sky now. One ex-manager even did an interview with the paper not so long after the tragic event.

Brent Stephens
8 Posted 14/04/2017 at 14:34:43
To me it's not a case of why ban that rag "after all these years". It's about banning a rag which NOW still tars all people from Liverpool as drug-dealers, criminals etc. If there were an award for "cunt of the highest order", I would nominate MacKenzie.
Eugene Ruane
9 Posted 14/04/2017 at 14:41:20
Tony – 'Why should Everton ban The Sun after all these years? was my own opinion'

As I say, your choice, but I'd be interested in the following hypothetical:

Pretend the Sun was banned after Hillsborough and then (given their history since) see what actual sensible reasons you could find for allowing them back to Goodison/Finch Farm.

Their coverage is honest?

They don't single out the city of Liverpool/Scousers for 'special' treatment?

Hillsborough was a long time ago?

The Sun has changed?

Ian (#67) – "Tony, I'm with you in the 25 %. Why ban The Sun after all these years? Colin Murray, who walked away from TalkSport, is obviously a man of principle who I have a lot of respect for, but there are many ex-RS players and managers working for Sky now. One ex-manager even did an interview with the paper not so long after the tragic event."

I'm confused, are you saying you want to align yourself NOT with a man of principle, but with assorted dumb, grasping Liverpool players and an ex Liverpool manager?

They did... so I will?

Do you know what two wrongs DON'T make?

Tony Abrahams
10 Posted 14/04/2017 at 14:42:31
Ian, as far as I'm concerned, The Sun is already banned in this city because it's something you just don't come across anymore. The best reply to MacKenzie would be to ignore it because he obviously comes to our city every week.

The City of Liverpool is thriving with regards to tourism now, so the bollocks that worked in the eighties is no longer so easy to believe, simply because people are seeing us with their own eyes rather than through the phoney lies of a Margaret Thatcher driven media.

John G Davies
11 Posted 14/04/2017 at 14:48:25
Given the right wing jackboot politics of the newspaper, The Sun was banned in my house before Hillsborough.
Eugene Ruane
12 Posted 14/04/2017 at 14:53:07
Mr Mayor now 'advising' Everton to ban them - Link

(Get on it, Bill, don't blow the dock!)

Kevin Tully
13 Posted 14/04/2017 at 14:56:08
I remember that other gobshite, Iain Dale, who is cut from the same cloth as the reptile MacKenzie, coming to Liverpool to cove the Labour Party conference.

He did a fucking right job in the press about what a shithole Liverpool was, and the fact he wouldn't recommend anybody stay in the City.

Guess where he stayed? Yes, the finest hotel in Liverpool, The Adelphi. He clearly chose that particular hotel, ignoring all the decent places to stay, so he could get back to London and do a hatchet job.

These type of Southern-based Tory pricks love to run down the reputation of Liverpool at every opportunity, and regardless of your politics, or football club, every one of us should be united in the quest to point out the lies they peddle, and the vile agenda they have against this particular region.

Personally, I think it's all still a hangover from the Thatcher years. They really need to move on in that lovely, crime ridden City of London.

Kevin Tully
14 Posted 14/04/2017 at 15:01:49
For anyone interested, here is the offending piece from Iain Dale in 2011 (NOT Kelvin MacKenzie):

Look, I'm going to be honest. So far, I have found Liverpool to be a ghastly city. The Albert dock area is lovely, but from what I have seen of the rest of it, it makes Gaza look welcoming. It's now that I understand perfectly why lots of famous people profess to love Liverpool so much they move away at the first opportunity and never return if they can help it.

Driving in on Sunday it was quite apparent that what money the council has had has been blown on regenerating the docks area to the exclusion of everywhere else. There seem to be a large number of second world war bomb sites which haven't been touched in 60 years. It gives a terrible impression to people visiting for the first time.

And then there's the Adelphi Hotel. A shocker. I vaguely remember watching a fly on the wall documentary about it a few years ago. Believe me, it hasn't got any better. They are charging £189 a night for a room with no internet, no mini bar, a room service menu which has a choice of two things and which is only available for an hour a day (OK, I exaggerate a little on that) and a TV which was built circa 1976. Oh, and its car park resembles a Kevin Webster style MoT bay. But the bathroom does have a set of bathroom scales, so that's nice. What an absolute dive of a hotel.

I know Liverpool has many fans. A good friend of mine loves the place. She regularly comes here for weekend breaks. God alone knows why. If I never came back again ever, it would be too soon. I suspect the feeling will be mutual after this.

James Hughes
15 Posted 14/04/2017 at 15:03:30
Eugene (#610 Thanks for the link and I am disgusted at that tweet. I can only imagine the 25% were not aware of the facts. If he used a racial reference instead of just 'men of Liverpool' he would have been sacked, prosecuted and exiled.

I have lived in Essex for over 30 years and still get the old chestnut: "Oi Scouse, got any hubcaps? " When you give them an fashioned Anglo-Saxon reply and mention barrow boy and spivs, they still get shirty and want to know why you can't take a joke.

That scumbag journo is helping perpetuate the myth that all scousers are worthless and thieves.

Paul Smith
16 Posted 14/04/2017 at 15:05:57
It may be that MacKenzie is having a pop due to the campaign that's been up and running to ban the rag. I know he has previous and I'm in no way defending the shit stain but it's just a thought.

I'm actually gobsmacked that a journalist would still hold such views about Liverpool. I thought we had left all that behind.

Tony Abrahams
17 Posted 14/04/2017 at 15:08:12
That last post of mine is why it doesn't really bother me anymore, Eugene. It was a lot easier to print lies about our city in the eighties, because it was obvious that Thatcher wanted to run us into the ground, and only war-torn Belfast got a slightly worse press.

I went to Belfast as a kid; although we were only kids and it was an imposing place, I absolutely fucking loved my few days, in such a special place. It instantly reminded me of home, much more than a lot of places in England, and it taught me how much power the media have to print anything they want about a place that nobody wanted to visit. Which is no longer true about Liverpool!

Mike Green
18 Posted 14/04/2017 at 15:26:00
Kelvin MacKenzie – Grade A nasty piece of work. As soon as I realised this came from him, I stopped reading. Horrible cunt.
Tony Abrahams
19 Posted 14/04/2017 at 15:28:10
What money we have had? Possibly the reason the northern cities in England voted to stay a part of the European Union!
Mike Hughes
20 Posted 14/04/2017 at 15:32:52
I did vote to ban The Sun but have relented. Personally, I think it should be ordered in bulk for our new stadium.

It should be cut up to a standard arse-wiping size so that we can lead the country in suitably branding the product.

As for Kelvin McKenzie, the turd can now voice his opinion in ways that must make the likes of Katie Hopkins proud.

Scum.

Gordon Crawford
21 Posted 14/04/2017 at 15:35:14
Disgusting and vile comments. Everton should start legal actions against this horrible human being. And it's time would banned this paper once and for all.

No wonder Ross struggles with confidence. Truly awful.

Tony McNulty
22 Posted 14/04/2017 at 15:44:26
Could MacKenzie be in any legal trouble as a consequence of what he has written?

If we have a lawyer on here (NB, not a lawyer per se), I would be interested in their views.

Tony Abrahams
23 Posted 14/04/2017 at 15:48:56
On what grounds, Gordon? People in the media love to be in the news, so it's best just to ignore him.

Barkley could come across really clever though and make a statement along the lines of "The only reason I'm not going to sue this lying idiot for libel is because nobody in our city takes this silly old man seriously anymore."

Brian Williams
24 Posted 14/04/2017 at 16:00:19
Tony. I believe someone has already found "grounds" and has complained that the article is racist, as it likens Barkley to a gorilla in a zoo, and with Ross's Nigerian descent this is a possibility.

Not my opinion by the way, just passing on what I've read.

Colin Glassar
25 Posted 14/04/2017 at 16:05:32
Coming late to this but I couldn't believe my eyes when I read what that vile, little rat wrote about Ross and our city. Is this from today?

I'm gobsmaked that this piece of shit has the nerve to leave the sewer he was banished to.

I'd like to rearrange his ham and eggs and I'd happily do it for free.

Raymond Fox
26 Posted 14/04/2017 at 16:10:50
Mackenzie needs to be brought to task for his vile comments.

As far as Ross is concerned, I feel genuinely sorry for the lad, only a twat would make a personal statement like Mackenzie has about a young person.

Tony Abrahams
27 Posted 14/04/2017 at 16:13:21
Just read that, Brian. Joe Anderson has reported it to the police as "a hate crime", and after using words like that then Kelvin The Cunt, has just made an absolute fool of himself!

Take the moral high ground Ross, and ask MacKenzie, to donate some of his fortune, to the EitC Foundation, and some more to the underprivileged kids in our city, and to keep his apologies to himself!

Brian Williams
28 Posted 14/04/2017 at 16:17:22
Mike Gaynes (#58),

With all due respect, when you take into consideration that Ross's contract expires at the end of next season, and it's already clear he signs a new one or he's sold (and he hasn't yet signed) and the fact that he's stated "I want Champions League" which we're not going to give him this season then Brian@57 makes a valid point.

He's not the only one who's "heard." We've all heard but interpreted what's been said in different ways.

I have to agree with my namesake in as much as I think Ross is making noises about wanting away because simply put he's saying he wants something we're not (until the end of next season at the earliest) able to give him and, bearing in mind his contract situation, that may be too late.

To me it's opening gambit from Ross. If he doesn't sign his new contract then it's pretty damn obvious he wants away, we'll know for sure soon enough.
Gordon Crawford
29 Posted 14/04/2017 at 16:19:35
Tony, on the grounds of a potential racist remark, that in itself should be investigated. He pretty much called Ross a Gorilla. That's a seriously gross comment. If it's a misjudgment a huge apology should be made to Ross, the people of Liverpool and Everton FC.
John G Davies
30 Posted 14/04/2017 at 16:19:39
He's shot himself in the foot here. He probably doesn't know Ross has a black heritage, a lot of people (Blues included) didn't know until recently.

Watch the grovelling apology over the next day or so.
Brian Williams
31 Posted 14/04/2017 at 16:22:20
John G. Was thinking the same thing myself. He'll know for sure when he's interviewed by the police.
Colin Glassar
32 Posted 14/04/2017 at 16:32:06
I hope they throw the book at him and stick him in a cell with Purple Aki.
Dermot Byrne
33 Posted 14/04/2017 at 16:37:19
Until I came on here, I had not read one word of The Sun today (or yesterday...) or their idiotic columnist. Best way to be, as without readers and reaction he is nothing. If some guy in Essex loves it, who cares.

The day crass shit like his worries me, the day he wins. Unless someone with cash tries to sue, he will keep doing this as it is how he makes a living. Reaction (with the protection of Sun lawyers) is what keeps him happy and employed.

So, whilst I support those who agree to stop selling it, far more powerful is just people never buying it. If that happens outlets will just return it to wholesalers and stop ordering it.

And if, after all the shit they have flung at the City and the vulnerable and defenceless, it still has healthy sales in Liverpool, then I am more worried by those who still buy it than some prat who writes for The Sun.

Robby Burns
34 Posted 14/04/2017 at 16:54:38
I wouldn't use that Tory rag for toilet paper.
Brian Harrison
35 Posted 14/04/2017 at 17:17:32
I see someone on twitter from Watched Toffee has printed MacKenzie's home address. I bet his postbag will make interesting reading over the next few days.

Should anybody write, I would suggest you state the facts and don't slip to his gutter level, so he can't come back saying, "You should see the letters I have received with vile threats."

Ed Fitzgerald
36 Posted 14/04/2017 at 17:18:14
I can't believe that any Evertonians voted No, never mind over 1000 people. I would like a No voter to try and post a cogent, considered argument for their choice on TW.

Don Alexander
37 Posted 14/04/2017 at 17:21:01
It's typical Kelvin MacKenzie, folks. Only a Sun reader would need to have "Kelvin MacKenzie exposes his cock-eyed mentality" splashed all over its front page to now learn what any other human learnt decades ago.

And whilst I'm fully in sympathy with any outrage Ross and others may be feeling, I'd suggest the last thing he needs to do is initiate any legal action. That's always stressful for individuals versus wealthy parasites such as Murdoch, the Sun's owner.

The following is a link to OFCOM who in mid-May will have to decide whether or not Murdoch is to be allowed 100% control of Sky, as he is seeking. OFCOM are inviting members of the public to give their opinion as to whether he is, try not to laugh, "a fit and proper person."

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-3/public-interest-test-sky-fox

It's easy and quick to do, and will add to the campaign to force even this government to tell him to piss off.

Dan Davies
38 Posted 14/04/2017 at 17:22:12
This MacKenzie prick is just a bully picking on an easy target in Ross. He has seen his opportunity to target a young scouser and took it with glee.

At the same time using Ross to crave attention for his own pompous supposedly superior intellect and lifestyle, he takes satisfaction in mocking the the whole City and its people.

What a sad, pathetic excuse for a journalist and man.

I for one would love to see our Chairman make a public statement on this and back the Mayor one hundred percent. Bill, where are you? Stand up man!

Shun The Sun.

Rob Halligan
39 Posted 14/04/2017 at 17:26:51
If any reporter from The Sun had any sense, he would stay away from Goodison tomorrow anyway. The press box at Goodison isn't exactly big, and there is always a possibility of someone sussing him out.

The last thing we need is the club being in trouble for an attack on a press reporter.

Andrew Clare
40 Posted 14/04/2017 at 17:27:41
It's just a ghastly publication like the Daily Mail pandering to the Little England mentality that voted us out of Europe. It has a reading ability age of six years old – it's the only thing the Neanderthals can understand.
Kieran Kinsella
41 Posted 14/04/2017 at 17:28:26
Unbelievable. Classist, racist, defamatory.
David Barks
42 Posted 14/04/2017 at 17:31:11
Should have been banned long ago. And pressure should be applied to the other clubs to follow suit.
Nick Armitage
43 Posted 14/04/2017 at 17:37:12
The whole News International and Fox organisation is a despicable cesspit. Its hypocritcal for the club to ban The Sun but smile politely to the Times and Sky as they cash their cheques and invite the Sky cameras into Goodison and Finch Farm.

Ditto for Liverpool. It's a token gesture that achieves nothing. The only way to beat them is to stop reading, watching and paying for their bile and stop giving pondlife like MacKenzie the oxygen that cockroaches like him depend on.

Kevin Naylor
44 Posted 14/04/2017 at 17:40:12
Andrew (40), I voted to leave Europe so find your comment somewhat offensive, I am not a 'little Englander' as you put it and I'm sure lots of TWebbers are of the same opinion.
Peter Warren
45 Posted 14/04/2017 at 17:45:16
Eugene – I totally understand where you're coming from. I would never buy The Sun after what has occurred. However, I voted no. The reason is I would feel hypocritical since I pay for Sky.

I said before I would totally support the club if they banned everything to do with Murdoch – I appreciate that would mean the end of EFC as we know it but I would hand on heart fully support that. But banning the Sun only – just seems like a half-hearted measure.

Peter Warren
46 Posted 14/04/2017 at 17:46:24
Nick (#43) you sum up my feelings precisely and succinctly.
Colin Glassar
47 Posted 14/04/2017 at 17:47:40
I wonder who's making the final decision re a possible ban? Boys Pen Bill or Moshiri? I imagine neither of them want to get in Murdoch's bad books so they might just do an ostrich.

I'd ban that filthy rag from the ground and let the Custiss Bros go mental.

Chris Williams
48 Posted 14/04/2017 at 17:52:46
As for the Custiss brothers. A pair of ignorant gobshites masquerading as journalists. Perfect for The Sun and their 'readers'.

Horrible horrible specimens.

Alan Bodell
49 Posted 14/04/2017 at 17:54:54
This insensitive moron lives in a mansion somewhere down in a leafy suburban neighborhood. One day, a scouser will arrive with his takeaway meal... I wouldn't want to be that man.
Colin Glassar
50 Posted 14/04/2017 at 17:58:01
Neil Ashton is the only decent footy reporter on The Scum. The rest I wouldn't waste my spit on.
Andrew Clare
51 Posted 14/04/2017 at 18:03:54
Sorry Kevin. I shouldn't have generalised. I have strong feelings about Brexit as I live and work in Europe for a good part of the year and two of my children live and work there.
Jay Harris
52 Posted 14/04/2017 at 18:10:24
Spot on as ever, Eugene,

I can't believe anyone still buys that rag let alone reads it.

Never has a newspaper lived up to its name as "gutter press" as much as The Sun.

I hope Ross sues the bastard.

Robin Bee
53 Posted 14/04/2017 at 18:15:50
I spent my first weekend in the town last weekend and I could not disagree more with this idiots comments about the city. We had a fantastic time with friendly people in a fantastic lively town and finished it off by watching the win over Leicester.

I agree that the club should ban The Sun at press conferences etc to show that we do care about Ross, and that we won't have this filth written about our own players, the people of the city, or the city itself.

Martin Nicholls
54 Posted 14/04/2017 at 18:19:23
BBC reporting that the article has been removed from The Sun website and that Merseyside Police are considering whether remarks constitute a racial hate crime.
Paul Birmingham
55 Posted 14/04/2017 at 18:26:04
EFC must consider the depth and hate behind these disgusting slurs on our City and player...

Time for the board to show some true grit and take the right action and ban the rag and take these disgusting excuses for people to court and sue them.


Chris Leyland
56 Posted 14/04/2017 at 18:35:07
100% agree with Eugene. That vile scummy rag and those who work for it should not be allowed anywhere near Goodison.
Chris Williams
57 Posted 14/04/2017 at 18:35:49
We just need to hear from Everton now.

The world and his wife have had their say, and according to Joe Anderson he had already raised the issue of a ban on the rag privately with Elstone, seemingly to no avail.

Stan Schofield
58 Posted 14/04/2017 at 18:36:32
The root cause of the problem is The Sun's parent organisation, the Murdoch empire, which includes Sky. I would support banning the Sun if and only if it is part of a wider ban on the parent organisation.
Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
59 Posted 14/04/2017 at 18:39:21
Unless it has gone through a major facelift in recent years, then, having been to functions in the Adelphi – I have to agree with the description and disagree with the comment of it being the finest hotel in Liverpool.
Dermot Byrne
60 Posted 14/04/2017 at 18:53:27
It is true about the Adelphi decline. Stayed the other week. Nowhere near £189 a night. Saw you coming, dearest Kelvin!

The only thought I had since this broke is how right wing tabloid columnists love having a pop at Liverpool. Not cities with similar history like Newcastle or Glasgow.

I think the reason is they are guaranteed that some scouser will spot it and collective, ever-increasing outrage is a cert. Brill for the columnist reading figures.

Then to have a police investigation and your article taken down (but still available on net) is even better.

Promise me if Katie Hopkins has a swipe at the architectural beauty of Speke tomorrow you won't go ape shit and make it viral.

Brent Stephens
61 Posted 14/04/2017 at 18:58:35
The heat is turned up on Kelvin...
Link
Chris Williams
62 Posted 14/04/2017 at 18:59:24
Sad it coincides with the Hillsborough anniversary.

Tomorrow seemingly.

Dermot Byrne
63 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:04:15
To brand the garbage he wrote as racist is just plain stupid and a fucking insult to people who have fought racism for generations.
Tony Abrahams
64 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:09:33
And exactly the way it would have been reported by his newspaper if the boot would have been on the other foot, Dermot?
Dermot Byrne
65 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:11:44
Exactly, Tony A. Exactly.
Martin Mason
66 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:11:55
We live in a democracy where people have the right to read what newspaper they like and banning newspapers from anywhere is tyrannical.

As individuals we can decide whether we buy The Sun or not; nobody should ever demand that in a liberal democracy anybody can ban a legal entity like The Sun.

Jack Convery
67 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:14:23
I've never ever read the rag. When I moved on from the Dandy and Beano, I wanted something more adult to read. The rag would have been a real step backwards.

As for this smear (it's not an article as writing one takes thought and reason), I expect nothing else. Don't buy it ,don't read it ,and most of all, never wipe your ass on it as that means you have to touch it...

Now stop watching Sky – it's all one and the same.

Ed Fitzgerald
68 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:18:40
To those saying banning The Sun is just a gesture because of Sky, The Times etc... Try making that statement to any of the family and friends of the 96 – I am sure they would appreciate that 'gesture' of solidarity from our football club.

Furthermore, it's the same man making derogatory comments about the City today who spread lies about Hillsborough in the first place and was instrumental in promoting a culture of abuse towards the City and its people from many parts of the media at that time.

Gestures count, like wearing a poppy to show respect, having a minutes silence to remember someone who has passed away, and banning a newspaper and its journalists who appear to take delight in berating the City of Liverpool.

Brent Stephens
69 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:18:43
Martin, the piece at the top of this thread says "Everton are receiving renewed pressure to follow Liverpool FC's lead in banning The Sun newspaper from all access to the club".

No mention of any other ban. Read what you want.

Hywel Owen
70 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:21:14
Regarding this so-called reporter and very sad disturbed person, it is now understood that mental problems are far more common than previously thought. Makes you think!!
Tom Evans
71 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:23:53
Late to this story and have just read what was written from other newspaper Web sites. Words fail me to be honest. How any newspaper could expect to get away with publishing such an article honestly begs the question was it a deliberate act?

For what ends, I don't know but one thing for sure is that MacKenzie once again has shown exactly what a reptile he is.

Kev Johnson
72 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:27:30
The fucker has been suspended.
Colin Glassar
73 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:31:07
Wtf of our chairman and majority shareholder? Not a peep out of either of them!!
Dave Lynch
74 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:31:49
I did vote to ban it and have never, ever bought the comic but what pisses me off is the whole contradiction of people's morality.

The lads in work have TalkShite on constantly, it's always full of kopites (with Scouse accents) contributing.

Mackenzie was (could still be) a major player in that station, I think it's owned by a Sky subsidiary as well, which is owned by Murdoch.

FFS, if your gonna have morality then follow it through and don't pick and choose. I don't have Sky by the way but it's a personal choice – not one born out of moral values, as I will go the pub and watch the game.

Neil Gribbin
75 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:33:25
The toerag has been suspended apparently. Just been on Channel 4 News.
Tony Abrahams
76 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:37:39
I would say it's very deliberate, Tom, simply because of how ill-informed the whole article is.
Will Mabon
77 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:37:52
"How any newspaper could expect to get away with publishing such an article honestly begs the question was it a deliberate act?"

Someone's starting to see it. If not deliberate by the paper, deliberate by the author. Shitbag that he is, does anyone really think MacKenzie would be unaware of the effect of this? That his writings are an unavoidable consequence of his character as opposed to intellectual intent?

To rise to it is to fall for it.

Tom Dodds
78 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:41:18
If The Sun now sack the scum, will we all now think justice has been done and will soon be (slowly but surely) back to buying their 'newspaper'?

Remember the son of the bastard (Murdoch) is now in full command of his empire.

Ste Traverse
79 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:42:36
MacKenzie now 'suspended' by The Sun according to ITV News on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/852950384352137216

James Morgan
80 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:43:13
Colin Glassar, don't you know Purps likes muscular young men? Not old, fat Jabba the Hutt looking scrotes like MacKenzie!

As for this article, it just proves what a turd the guy is. The BP garage near my work on Trafford Park gives that rag away on a daily basis, mustn't even be doing well in the Manchester region!

Alan McMillan
81 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:43:35
As someone not from Liverpool (I'm a dub), I have had nothing but the best of hospitality, warmth and craic whenever I visit for a weekend, which is nowhere near as often as I'd like.

Fuck that cunt Mackenzie, fuck The Sun. Their bile against the city and people of Liverpool – and their depiction of all Irish as alcoholics and terrorists, says more about them than any of us.

Chris Williams
82 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:44:28
Perhaps we should ask John Wilson for his considered legal opinion .
Chris Williams
83 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:53:05
Yup, the prick is suspended and on holiday. They were unaware of Ross's racial heritage seemingly.

That's okay then. Okay to slur Scousers too by the look of it.

Everton???

John Otway
84 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:53:48
Shame he's not been suspended by his testicles.
Eric Paul
85 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:58:05
The Sun should have been banned from every village, town and city long before Hillsboro for its support of Thatcher alone.
Dermot Byrne
86 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:58:25
Will... At last. Deliberate by the author. Personally I think it is crap rubbish but he knows the bait the scouser game very well. No accident here but his tabloid judgment maybe suspect.

As for banning the paper from the ground. Pointless. Just don't buy it.

Something in me reacts if someone tells me I cannot do something. It takes away my moral choice. A bit like all the folk on TV who are told to wear a poppy.

Tony Abrahams
87 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:59:52
I respect what you are saying, Ed, but as you say yourself, it's the same man, who helped to peddle so many lies about Hillsborough, and if he's also connected to a radio station, or a television company, then the best way to go after him is to stop having anything to do with anything that he's connected to.

The Sun is finished in our city but the phoney lying establishment-backed bastard who created so much harm to anybody connected to Hillsborough has got away with it for way too long and maybe it's time for the people to really go after him?

Colin Glassar
88 Posted 14/04/2017 at 20:07:05
I see SSN appear to be ignoring the story. They wouldn't want to upset Daddy Murdoch, I suppose.
Dermot Byrne
89 Posted 14/04/2017 at 20:08:10
It is okay to rip the piss (and unpleasantly) out of folk, even scousers, as long as it's within the law. And I hope people can always take the piss even if recipients claim offence.

That phrase "just coz your offended doesn't make you right" is one I think can at times ring true.

It's what you do in response that is the choice. Complain to authorities is possible.

Sueing for libel is rarely accessible to folk and hard to prove. Rant and argue on social media? Works for us lot. Ban the actions of others who may like the paper? Nah. A step to far. That is their choice and I would stand up for that choice even if it annoys the crap out of me.

Peter Lee
90 Posted 14/04/2017 at 20:08:54
Can anyone tell me why it took so long for LFC to ban it? It should have happened immediately the stories published were shown to be lies; i.e. within a week of the disaster.

I voted not to have the Blues follow this as it appeared to me to be tokenism after "they" and theirs had been so intimately involved with all things Murdoch in the intervening years.

A reason from them about why now might make me take a different view.

Jeff Hough
91 Posted 14/04/2017 at 20:09:34
Martin is right when he says that we live in a democracy and that banning newspapers is tyrannical. Whenever this topic comes up I keep seeing the Nazi book burning of the 1930s and feel that simply not buying it will send a stronger message.

I was thinking the same just before I cast my vote on the ToffeeWeb poll and didn't like the way that the Mirror (owners of the Liverpool Echo) seemed to be using the genuine hurt and anger of fellow Scousers to attack a rival newspaper.

I had also read the arguments that the Sun have a different workforce now who had nothing to do with those disgusting reports of 28 years ago.

However, in the end I just couldn't bring myself to endorse that argument and voted with the 75% who wanted to ban The Sun. I kept seeing the face of Margaret Aspinall and felt that if I showed any support for the Sun at all I would be letting her and the rest of the 96 families down.
Let's hope the 25% who voted to allow The Sun at Goodison have learnt the lessons pointed out by Eugene, and others, and stop supporting the rag.

By the way, Dave, I don't have Sky or go to watch it at the pub; I never listen to Talk Sport either, miserable bastard aren't I?

Andy Crooks
92 Posted 14/04/2017 at 20:13:16
To be honest, I dithered over the poll because I don't like "press" and "banning" to ever be linked. I voted to ban because it seemed to me to come down to a choice between decent and not decent.

I am glad I made that choice. I am from Belfast and I honestly believe that the people of Liverpool are treated with more contempt than we are.

To me, Belfast, Liverpool and Glasgow are either demonized or patronized. MacKenzie isn't a journalist. He does not inform, educate, enlighten or entertain. He confirms and endorses the opinions of those who have never had an original thought in their life.

Kevin Tully
93 Posted 14/04/2017 at 20:22:28
Dermot (#60) – I wasn't defending the Adelphi. I wouldn't put my dog up in the Adelphi, it's the worst flop-house in the City. My point is that it was chosen purposely by a journalist so he could do a premeditated hatchet job.

Why didn't he stay at one of the Hilton Hotels, Raddison or Malmaison on offer? All cheaper than the £185.00 he supposedly paid to stay in a dump.

Mick Hoban
94 Posted 14/04/2017 at 20:34:48
Andy @ 92,

The last paragraph nails it. Great words!

Tony Abrahams
95 Posted 14/04/2017 at 20:35:27
Jeff (#91), you mentioned Margaret Aspinall. Thanks mate, because she to me, was the only ray of beaming light (if that's at all possible) that ever came out of the Hillsborough disaster. A truely remarkable lady who had more morality and decency in her little finger than people like MacKenzie have ever had in all of their years.
Mick Davies
96 Posted 14/04/2017 at 20:38:37
Martin Mason, what is this 'democracy' you mentioned? That rag (rightly) boasts that it has given the country each of it's PMs for over 30 years. There is no mainstream media allowed to support the working class in this country; the ruling elite have seen to that.

A year or two ago, an extremely despicable far right group was allowed to 'march' in Liverpool, against the wishes of the Merseyside public. These vile retards never even got out of Lime Street Station and had to be protected by police, just to get back on the train.

So if you're wondering why that scum comic hates us so much, then just think about the readership, they're immature views and extreme right wing mentality, and you'll understand.

Tony Hill
97 Posted 14/04/2017 at 20:55:28
Someone must have made the editorial decision to publish MacKenzie's moronic tat though, being the cowards they all are, he is now being hung out.

We are not seeking to close down The Sun, we merely say that we should not be required to invite those who have shat upon us and our own, and would shit upon us again and again, into our house.

Mike Keating
98 Posted 14/04/2017 at 20:55:59
Just looked up the Adelphi on booking.com. You can get a twin bedded room for this Saturday (Easter weekend and match day) for £115. The man's a liar which is probably a necessary qualification for working at The Sun.

What I find really confusing is that McKenzie has cost Murdoch millions in lost revenue (the only direction on that twat's moral compass) and he still has McKenzie writing garbage for The Sun.

Currently reading And the Sun Shines Now by Tempany. Well worth a read – the ultimate irony being that the Taylor Report indirectly led to the creation of the Premier League and the media monopoly of the game by Sky TV.

"Good things happen to bad people on a regular basis" but what makes it harder to take is when they benefit from bad things they did in the first place.

Graham Coldron
99 Posted 14/04/2017 at 20:56:33
The media in general has always had an uneasy relationship with our great city and the fact that a lot of it is based in Manchester has not helped either.
Dave Abrahams
100 Posted 14/04/2017 at 20:58:58
Ed Fitzgerald (#36), I voted No for the simple reason Liverpool people had won the war against the vile accusations that had they had been labelled with by the Government of the time, The Police in charge of the game and by The Sun. The Sun was a joke long before Hillsborough, I'd never bought it and never took any notice of it then or since.

My main point is Liverpool (all of us) have won The War why start a battle when the war has been won.

However, fuck The Sun, they are unimportant to me in the whole affair, the war should be carried on against people like Bernard Ingram, Thatchers press officer, who is still making the accusations that have been exposed has false, he was the one gave the media these stories to begin with.

Then we should carry on against The Police in charge of the game that day, carry on until they charged and face these charges in a court of law.

Next to face the people of Liverpool are the FA who arranged the game and refused requests to give the fans allocations to different ends of the ground, I'm of Graham Kelly who was the FA secretary at the time.

Carry on the fight against these three and let The Sun stew in it's own very small part of the media.

We know what happened at Hillsborough, not only 96 died on that day, you don't have to die to lose your life; thousands of people's lives have never been the same since that terrible day. Fuck The Sun – carry on against the other guilty parties.

James Marshall
101 Posted 14/04/2017 at 20:59:52
The Sun should be banned from every football club in the entire country – fuck em. Why any club should stoop to let those bastards have even a scrap of news direct from the club is beyond me.

I won't even give a second glance to it, or anyone I see reading it, and nether should anyone with any sense of human decency. Anything News Corp touches is filthy, and shameful.

Michael Lynch
102 Posted 14/04/2017 at 21:04:07
Whilst you might be able to make an argument for making The Sun persona non grata for its coverage of Hillsborough in 1989, I'm not convinced there is an argument for banning them from Goodison because some arsehole took the piss out of Ross Barkely and scousers in general in 2017.

I'm not at all sure there was racist intent in that piece and, without that, the article is no worse than the kind of shite that newspaper and others like it print on a daily basis.

Anyway, they've suspended MacKenzie now, so I'd say we've made our feelings known pretty effectively. For me, that's the way forward.

Dave Lynch
103 Posted 14/04/2017 at 21:06:38
Jeff @91

I'm miserabler than you. I only go the pub cos my wife kicks me out for being miserable.

It's an age thing; the older I get the more miserable I get and I love every fucking minute of it.

Eugene Ruane
104 Posted 14/04/2017 at 21:07:01
There is no perfect. No Nirvana. There never has been and never will be.

And humans (all of us) have our frailties and weaknesses. But the idea of applying that and saying "so no point in trying" is fucking insane.

As is any 'two wrongs make a right' bollocks.

You have Sky?

Who gives a fuck – BAN THE SUN!

You listen to Talksport?

Who gives a fuck – BAN THE SUN!

You voted Brexit?

Who gives a fuck – BAN THE SUN!

Everything isn't logical, every argument isn't straightforward, some things are just... gut.

This imo is one of those things.

This city and it's people and it's football clubs (us!) have without doubt been targeted by this rag – you need to know more?

You want to argue 'Yeah but no but..."

Of course you'll get semantics and muddy-the-water nonsense by the likes of Martin Mason but I think most (here) know what he's all about (haven't seen a post by him in months but NOW he's here).

Ban the fucking Sun at Everton – tonight!

James Marshall
105 Posted 14/04/2017 at 21:07:10
No, they should be banned for everything they do, and stand for.
Kieran Kinsella
106 Posted 14/04/2017 at 21:11:04
Michael Lynch,

It doesn't matter if he intended to be racist, the fact is that people who are racist will lap up his remarks and others will be greatly offended.

Racism apart, there's no doubt he was making deliberately insulting comments about Scousers. Not to mention direct, unwarranted abuse at Ross. I think the club have to ban The Sun at this point because not doing so would create a bigger stir than doing so.

Chris Williams
107 Posted 14/04/2017 at 21:14:22
What the folk who are rightly advocating the pursuit of Ingham, Thatcher, The criminal police force (and for Orgreave) are missing is for these entities to be successful and to prosper you need both a compliant establishment and most particularly a venal press to make the events palatable to a wider audience.

This is why Murdoch is so fucking powerful.

Dave Lynch
108 Posted 14/04/2017 at 21:16:15
That's my point, Eugene.

I don't give a fuck!

Michael Lynch
109 Posted 14/04/2017 at 21:17:15
Kieren, of course it matters. And are you seriously suggesting Everton should ban anyone who makes deliberately insulting comments about scousers, or says nasty things about one of our players? And the club should ban The Sun because a mob is baying for blood?
Darren Hind
110 Posted 14/04/2017 at 21:18:32
Eugene (#104),

Exactly.

Tony Hill
111 Posted 14/04/2017 at 21:19:57
This is a test for the "new Everton", specifically for Mr Moshiri who has courted Murdoch's PR through his connection with Jim White. I will feel ashamed of the club if we now do nothing.
Liam Reilly
112 Posted 14/04/2017 at 21:20:27
Incredible that such a vile article can get published in today's PC society.

It's not just the author but also the editor that allowed it who should be brought to account.

Tony McNulty
113 Posted 14/04/2017 at 21:21:30
If it isn't banned from Goodison, I guess that market forces will deal with Sun sales from now on. The damage for the paper is surely irreparable.

I am genuinely curious about one thing though: if anyone on here still plans to buy the Sun, what would it take for you to cease the practice? What would they have to do? Where would you draw the line?

Chris Williams
114 Posted 14/04/2017 at 21:24:45
Spot on, Eugene

Bullshit baffles brains.

Mike Green
115 Posted 14/04/2017 at 21:25:16
The state banning a newspaper is one thing. A firm, or individual, refusing to speak to a newspaper is another.

One is a restriction of rights, the other is exercising one's rights.


Tony Abrahams
117 Posted 14/04/2017 at 21:26:50
Thanks for that post, Dave, you just put it into words exactly how I have always felt about this terrible disaster, which could have been so easily avoided, and the shameful way that people with and without blood on their hands still continue to act.

28 years ago on this very night, many Liverpool fans would have went to bed excited and looking forward to their FA Cup Semi-Final, the very next day. Hillsborough is a memory that has given me many silent tears... and has also, and still continues to be, the master of the English cover-up.

Kevin Tully
118 Posted 14/04/2017 at 21:33:30
Tony – I would be truly amazed if anyone who posted on these pages ever purchased that comic impression of a 'newspaper'

It strictly targets people with an IQ in double digits.

Chris Williams
119 Posted 14/04/2017 at 21:45:25
Kevin

Would that let out John Wilson?

Dave Lynch
120 Posted 14/04/2017 at 21:46:47
That high Kevin?
Tony Hill
121 Posted 14/04/2017 at 21:47:40
There is an inescapable political element to this. It goes to the heart of what we think of ourselves as a club and community and I agree with Chris Williams (#107).

If we continue to tolerate this rag then we cannot claim the special soul and common bond which have always been our boast. All the stuff about being chosen and the rest of it will be so much empty bollocks.

Steve Ferns
122 Posted 14/04/2017 at 21:48:07
The Sun should have been banned years ago. I voted Yes on the poll, but I did think it was too little too late.

Part of the reason not to ban it, is that the people banned it themselves; you never see a copy in the newsagents. If you see a student or someone from out of town reading it, someone will always remind them why they shouldn't buy it.

After this Ross Barkley incident, we should ban it. Not just because what he said about Ross, but what he said about us, the city and its people.

When the inevitable apology comes, it should not be we're sorry. I want a big splash over four pages or so that reads like a tourism advert, under the headline, "Why Kelvin Mackenzie was so wrong about Liverpool".

Show pictures of the attractions, how the city centre is booming, and not just the docks. The Sun has a duty now to correct the Harry Enfield stereotype that they still peddle two or three decades later.

Kevin Naylor
123 Posted 14/04/2017 at 21:53:10
Andrew (#40) no problem, I don't know 100% whether Brexit is the right thing to do; I don't think anyone knows for sure what will happen.
Sean Kelly
124 Posted 14/04/2017 at 21:56:36
I wouldn't insult my arse with that wipe – or The Mail.
Richard Lyons
125 Posted 14/04/2017 at 22:02:14
I love the tweet from Reidy in the link posted by Eugene (1): "Love to have a quiet chat with Mr MacKenzie!"

I'd really like to witness a quiet chat like that...

Andy Crooks
126 Posted 14/04/2017 at 22:07:29
Chris (#119), a bit unfair.
Ed Fitzgerald
127 Posted 14/04/2017 at 22:14:38
Dave @ 100,

Won the war have we? Have you read the article printed by The Sun today? It doesn't feel like a war has been won to me after reading the comments made about the people of Liverpool in the article.

The paper holds the City in the same contempt it always has done. The whole City should support the ban.

Anthony Jones
128 Posted 14/04/2017 at 22:16:47
Banning things often increases support for those things. People don't like to be told what they can or can't buy within consumer-driven economies.

EFC should wait and see what happens to this clown before considering bans.

Whether Joe Anderson thinks EFC should ban them is irrelevant. He is a politician.

Steve Ferns
129 Posted 14/04/2017 at 22:30:18
I would agree, Anthony, he could be seen as pandering to the red side.

However, we vote for a new mayor in a few weeks and he's not on the ballot. So I don't think he is pandering here. It's probably something he personally feels strongly on.

Scott Williams
130 Posted 14/04/2017 at 22:32:07
This paper needs to be banned across the country.

My Uncle was at Hillsborough he used to be in the army and did a few tours of Northern Ireland. He had some hairy times over there but has said that nothing would compare 15 April 1989. Two days before I was born and my mum didn't know if her brother was alive or not, partly due to reports from that drivel that's better put to use in toilets for emergency shit roll.

I know how much it affected him as we watched the TV drama about it last year and he broke down. He is a Red and I'm a Blue but every time my local garage (in Yeovil) offer a free copy of The Sun when I buy petrol, I take it and throw it straight in the bin outside just so one person less can avoid reading that shite!

Dick Fearon
131 Posted 14/04/2017 at 22:32:28
The Sun is a reflection of Murdoch's values – and we all know what they are.
Christine Foster
132 Posted 14/04/2017 at 22:36:47
I have a couple of words for those who voted No...

Liverpool is my family, the Reds are still my family. You slander, abuse, attack my family with lies and slurs, ridicule me or mine, then there is no such thing as politically correct or splitting of hairs – that's appeasement.

There is a basic principle involved. Right or wrong... you should not even have to think about it.

Eric Paul
133 Posted 14/04/2017 at 22:37:29
If we are a club of the people, surely we would respect everyone's opinion. Evertonians are not all from Liverpool; I personally would not put myself out with a Sun if I was on fire – for reasons pre-dating Hillsboro (1984) and Thatcherism to name a couple – but this is primarily an article about Ross Barkley so why has it been hijacked and the more serious aspect of racism overlooked?
Trevor Lynes
134 Posted 14/04/2017 at 22:39:22
In all honesty I thought The Sun was not read in Liverpool ever since Hillsborough. Thousands of Sun newspapers were left outside Fords in the rain.

It is a rag and probably highly absorbent to make it easier to use in outside toilets. No need to encourage me to boycott this disgusting, bigoted piece of garbage. It has never been glanced at by myself for years.

Liverpool is the happiest and most friendly city in the UK and I have never heard a bad word about the place from any outsider or foreign visitor. Outside London it has the most listed buildings and the 2nd largest Hall (St George's) in the UK. It is by far the best value for food and drink anywhere plus the music scene is wonderful.

By comparison Manchester is sprawling, expensive, less friendly and has very little musical entertainment in the pubs. Liverpool as a city has won more football trophy's than any other city in England.

I am so proud of Liverpool. :)

John Raftery
135 Posted 14/04/2017 at 22:40:40
No matter how much we may dislike, hate or despise the views expressed, banning any publication which is operating within the law is the thin end of a dangerous wedge in a society in which press freedom is fundamental to our democratic way of life.

I never buy, or subscribe to, any of the national dailies and would shed no tears if the Mail, Express, Sun etc disappeared from the shelves. As with most of the printed media, their days are probably numbered anyway.

In the meantime, it seems to me preferable to ignore them. Extending the ban might just prove to be counterproductive in providing even more succour to those who are always looking for any pretext to denigrate our city and its people.

As to whether or not a hate crime has been committed, we should allow the law to take its due course.

Tony Hill
136 Posted 14/04/2017 at 22:41:40
Roy Greenslade in The Guardian points out that it was Murdoch personally who gave MacKenzie his column and who is his main supporter.

Come on, Farhad; come on, Bill – this stuff can't be about gestures and striking poses; it requires simple action.

Steve Ferns
137 Posted 14/04/2017 at 22:43:18
On the subject of Hillsborough, I recall doing a group project on Hillsborough as part of my LLB tort module. Tort is about civil liability.

I went to university in the East Midlands so I was the only scouser in the group. I quickly found out that I was one of a few who actually had any proper football-going experience, particularly dating back to the 80s. I should add this was back in 1998.

Luckily I was on the families side, though my lecturer did say that he would have moved me if I'd be selected on the side of the police. I was quite shocked by the views of the group.

Here was an educated and well read group of people peddling the age old lines as popularised by the likes of the sun. Thankfully, my passion and football knowledge was enough to answer their case and we won the moot. It was a real eye opener at just how much even educated people believe what they read.

The constant belittling of Liverpool, the scouser jokes, and all the stereotypes never die as they keep getting repeated and lead to brain washing of people who repeat these views without thinking.

Dermot Byrne
138 Posted 14/04/2017 at 22:43:43
This will soon disintegrate into those who think they feel the most and use the most CAPITALS believing they are right, others are wrong just because of this.

Then Eugene gives those who think they feel most that sort of literary knowing nod... A sort of "we, true blues/scousers" know. Gut.

No. Just some think one way, others different ways.

Like a lot of the longer threads on here, by the time we pass 100 the arguments have descended into egos, anger between ourselves and an end to sensible discussion between folk who support the same team.

It may just be that my gut feeling is there are bigger issues here. But I do agree with Eugene in that it is never neat and tidy.

Dermot Byrne
139 Posted 14/04/2017 at 22:48:22
Know were you are coming from, John (#135). Most just want it banned from Goodison, I think, but the principle is the same, I think. Someone tells someone else what they can and cannot read.
Damian Wilde
140 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:00:25
Disgusting article. We have to ban it. Everton better act quickly.
John Audsley
141 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:04:46
Vile and hateful rag.

Never let them around anything EFC related again.

John Keating
142 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:05:13
I am just amazed that the Club have not come out in defence of one of its employees and thousands of its financial backers.
Colin Glassar
143 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:06:23
The real victim in all this is Ross. Let's keep that in mind please.
Bobby Mallon
144 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:07:12
All teams take Sky money... so to ban The Sun should mean stop watching live Sky matches and stop taking Sky TV money. Abuse – it's all part of the same business.
Eugene Ruane
145 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:07:24
Anthony Jones (#128) – "Whether Joe Anderson thinks EFC should ban them is irrelevant. He is a politician."

No idea what that even means, politicians can only comment on politics?

Joe Anderson (whether you like it or not) is also an Evertonian and his reaction today is simply the opinion of a fair-minded member of the human race (nb: not a perfect member or a faultless member, just a... fair-minded member).

And believe me, you finding fault with him pointing out his disgust at MacKenzie's piece and calling for a ban, doesn't for a second reflect badly on him.

By the way, the easiest thing for him to have done would be to have said fuck-all and been 'a politician' – turn up at Goodison, enjoy the hospitality, stay out of the firing line.

That he didn't is (imo) to his credit.

Michael Lynch (#109) – 'Kieren, of course it matters. And are you seriously suggesting Everton should ban anyone who makes deliberately insulting comments about scousers, or says nasty things about one of our players? And the club should ban the Sun because a mob is baying for blood?"

Pathetic! Because The Sun IS a 'mob baying for blood' every single day and that is why every decent person should want it banned from everywhere.

It is aimed at the thick and angry. It plays on the worst in humans, it manipulates the slow-witted, knowing there will always be plenty who can be easily cajoled and prodded and pushed into laughing at others or worse bullying them.

The gang mentality, safety in numbers, yet when you shine a light on them, they run for cover – "all we meant was..." and "it was taken out of context" etc blah whine.

In my lifetime I've seen that rag turn its sights on the Irish, Pakistanis, Sikhs, Scousers, refugeees, gays, immigrants, Argentinians, Spanish, French, Italians and many many more – there's always been someone for them to scream their 'patriotic 'outrage at and there's always been plenty of nob-heads to go along with their lowest common denominator shite.

They are the burgermeister who organises the mob to chase Frankenstein's monster. Hate, outrage and a pair of tits, there's fuck all else to it and anyone defending it in any fashion sounds (to me) like a reader (or Dermot).


Dermot Byrne
146 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:14:57
I don't like the content either, Eugene, and I think you're sharp enough to have spotted that.
Eugene Ruane
147 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:18:42
Bobby (#144) – 'All teams take Sky money... so to ban The Sun should mean stop watching live Sky matches and stop taking Sky TV money. Abuse – it's all part of the same business."

A poltroon, a dolt, a child putting forward a child's argument from the dot-to-dot argument book – "When this... so that... then these. I win!"

(nb: He won't mind me saying any of that as, in his words, 'abuse is all part of the same business').

Eddie Dunn
148 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:18:59
Kelvin MacKenzie was, and still is, a Grade One Wanker and now we see that he is a racist. His comments regarding Barkley are disgraceful.

I am looking forward to our club announcing a stinging reply to this article.


Paul McIntyre
149 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:24:08
I don't get all the civil liberties anxieties about 'banning the free press'. That's not what it's about.

An EFC ban on The Sun means not giving them access to the ground, training, press conferences or interviews. They can still print whatever shit they do which no-one in the city reads. A small but worthwhile gesture, as has been said.

As for Sky Sports... who is still paying for that!? Watching football on a hooky internet feed is now a positive moral choice.

Clive Mitchell
150 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:25:01
Colin (#143) – quite right. Ross needs maximum support, massive support at Goodison tomorrow, and he needs to understand that everyone regards Kelvin MacKenzie as beneath contempt.
Ray Robinson
151 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:29:05
Careful, Eugene. I hate The Sun just as much as anyone but the later part of your contribution sounds like a powerful argument for disenfranchising "the thick and angry" on the basis that they're not intelligent enough to come to sensible conclusions. They might indeed be incapable of so doing but that isn't how democracy works.
Paul Thompson
152 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:30:33
As Eugene says, there will always be inconsistencies and even hypocrisies in life, but you have to start somewhere – not banning The Sun in general, but from anything to do with EFC.

While the racist dimension is important, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the thick Scouser jibe is further evidence that class is now the last bastion of 'socially acceptable' prejudice.

Dermot Byrne
153 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:31:59
Eugene. You dress up your arguments beautifully. Reminds me a bit of The Guardian columnists who condemned and at same time felt sorry for those dumb Brexit voters. A time honoured left/liberal angst... One I occasionally wrestle when my little mind isn't wondering about Lukaku.

Anyway you know well this inevitably ends up at the free press issue.

Perhaps time to stop arsing around on the way there.

Dermot Byrne
154 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:33:35
Same thought, Ray.
James Flynn
155 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:34:39
Well, it's hit over here in American media. Most everyone in here never heard of Deadspin. But it covers basically everything everywhere, starting with sport. A fun site, I recommend.

The 1st half of last season, when Delboy was making things happen, they covered him weekly until OFM stopped playing him. They loved Gerard, even his diving got coverage.

So they posted this, the writing about and damning of MacKenzie's article not a re-print of something from Liverpool, but from an American journalist.

Link

I've mentioned it many times over the years in here. I'm saying it again. Everton Football Club is a well-recognized and respected Club here in America.

Mark Wilson
156 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:37:01
Here's the thing. I despise The Sun and always have. Its treatment of the city is beyond any reason and there remain people outside the city and a wider community who simply do not understand the depth of their crime against those who died, their families and friends and generations of those who are proud of our heritage. They do not understand how justice was cruelly and criminally denied for so long. If they did, they would know why so many Evertonians willingly put aside any reasonable concerns about press freedom or the arguments that might come their way, ie, why not ban Sky, anything or anyone associated with Murdoch's empire etc.

It doesn't matter. It really doesn't. This isn't about wider debate or politics. It's very very simple. It's about our club reflecting the views of the massive majority of supporters and standing up for us, those who died and our city. End of.

I sometimes find it hard to understand our Board at the best of times. A bit less so in the last 18 months. I'm not sure I could ever see why the Board thought it was right to make their stand about press freedom or "thin end of the wedge" etc, rather than make their stand about us, what most of think, what the right thing to do is.

I thought we were now better than making these huge mistakes. But guess what? Here we are in a position where, whatever happens next, we are being taken there by a politician, albeit a blue who – whilst not everyone's idea of a good guy – has just stuck his neck out a fair way to at last get the council to actively support the new stadium project.

If we announce the ban, it's going to be because Anderson pushed us there. Not great, that... but I'd rather have it than we do nothing. As for a turn-your-back protest at 15:06 on Saturday, I hate it; I hate the thought of turning my back on those wearing our shirt, even for a few seconds. But somehow I think I will be joining in if it has to happen because Mr Moshiri has to see how we feel.

This matters to us. The other arguments, the great debate whatever. This matters and it's time to be counted I think regardless of how uncomfortable it may feel. Ban The Sun now and accept you got it wrong, Everton; we will respect you for doing it more than you know.

Dermot Byrne
157 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:46:58
Well argued, Mark. And if the majority don't buy it, sing they hate it etc etc, then brill. But the bigger picture of press freedom isn't simple at all.
Kevin Tully
158 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:48:20
This particular issue has nothing at all to do with free speech, or gagging journalists.

The Sun and its journo's are free to write & report on any subject they think their target audience want to read about. Whether that's a celeb's fanny surgery, or a builder who can eat 43 Snickers bars in one go, they're as free as ever to put this type of tripe in their 'newspaper'.

Barring them from Goodison or Finch Farm is just that. They're not welcome in our club because of their lies and vitriol. Linking any ban to 'free speech' is a load of old shite and disingenuous.

Brent Stephens
159 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:49:02
FFS – this (the piece at the start of the thread etc) is not about banning The Sun newspaper from being sold or bought. It's proposing that the Sun as an organisation is not allowed access to Goodison Park.

Buy the paper if you want. EFC will do what they want re Sun access to GP.

Dan Davies
160 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:49:07
What we are talking about here is banning The Sun from Goodison Park and Finch Farm.

Free press? Anybody wanting to buy and read that rag can do it elsewhere if it so pleases them. They can even choose to read it on the internet if they want to.

I'm more concerned with Everton Football Club making a stand and a statement not just on the Barkley issue but with The Sun in general.

Those in the hierarchy of the club need to respond one way or another because to try and ignore this would be weak and embarrassing, in my humble opinion.

Phil Bellis
161 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:51:28
I think it's not about banning the rag but the hacks who work for/with it and currently have access to EFC press conferences etc from so doing in future.

Big difference surely? Nowt wrong with that.

Peter Lee
164 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:54:20
At 3:06 tomorrow Everton fans are being encouraged to turn their backs to the pitch in support of Hillsborough.

This is, in my view posturing shit, we've rightly supported memorials and silences and the decision by the families to call a halt was right. We'll never forget.

The right thing to do now is about this issue of Barkley. If the shite had any sense and solidarity they would chant his name before their away game (but no, they use any issue to focus on themselves).

No question that we should do likewise and give a minute's applause at 8 minutes, his number. It should be presented as a protest about racism and bigotry in The Sun newspaper.

Final vent – Hit them where it hurts. Sue MacKenzie personally, the sub-editor and editor who should have read the article and go all the way up to Murdoch. In the States at the minute where the concept of punitive damages would totally screw them.

"You are a good friend of Kelvin MacKenzie, Mr Murdoch, you have rewarded him well, respected his views and given him carte-blanche to write any prejudiced thing he likes. Don't you share responsibility for what he has done?"

Up early to watch the match tomorrow in an Irish bar. COYB.

Tony Hill
165 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:55:42
What the scribblings of this oaf showed was deliberate contempt for this city and its people, close to the Hillsborough date; they also showed contempt for our player who is an ordinary/extraordinary scouser.

This is not a matter of press freedom or censorship. It is a matter of us deciding what we are prepared to accept at our club and how much self-respect we want to retain. As I understand it, this is about whether Sun journalists are allowed to come to the ground and to press conferences etc.

We are not requiring anyone else to follow suit, or at least I'm not, but we are saying to those who choose to regard us (and want others to regard us) as drug-taking, dim prole low-lifes living in a scrapyard: "Fuck off – and please don't come to tea, as though nothing has happened".

Dermot Byrne
166 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:56:02
It has been the issue of free speech for some and it is certainly the issue of a majority telling a (probably non-existent now) minority what they can and cannot read at the ground. But head done in now and tomorrow another day of all the media spouting shit!

As I began on here, just don't friggin buy it. I doubt any Blues who did will do so now anyway.

Dermot Byrne
167 Posted 14/04/2017 at 23:59:49
Agree with banning the journos. That hurts the paper and different. Night all. Win tomorrow.
John G Davies
168 Posted 14/04/2017 at 00:01:23
Peter Lee (#164),

Who is advocating turning our backs tomorrow at 3:06?

Clive Mitchell
169 Posted 15/04/2017 at 00:06:24
Apparently it's the mayor who feels it would be a good way of indicating people's displeasure at the club's failure to ban the Sun. I'd personally like the chance to explain to the mayor what a stupid idea that is; and I won't be doing it.
John G Davies
170 Posted 15/04/2017 at 00:10:35
I like Joe, both as a politician and as a man.

That suggestion is plums.

Mark Wilson
171 Posted 15/04/2017 at 00:23:26
Some very fair shouts about not getting carried away with freedom of the press thing. I'm not but can see how easily the precedent gets to be a problem. But, that's a much wider debate.

This is about our club saying you've rubbished the city and now us for too long. We can have who we want or not at USM Finch Farm or Goodison Park and we don't want you. That's it.

As for the turning your back thing, I'm thinking there will be many who will, as it's one very clear demonstration of feelings, but we must respect those who choose not to.

Ciarán McGlone
172 Posted 15/04/2017 at 00:45:30
Free speech my arse. There is no legal right to free speech.

Stop turning this into something it ain't.

Ban them.

Mick Davies
173 Posted 15/04/2017 at 00:56:51
If a guy across the street was continually slagging off your family, would you allow him into your house?

People here talking about freedom of the press: yes, I agree 100% with that, but that rag is 'not' a newspaper, it's a gossip mag, for celeb tittle-tattle, with an extreme right wing agenda.

It has forfeited its right to be welcomed at any Merseyside football club due to its lies, vicious comments and hatred of our people... If anybody thinks these vile creatures have the right to set foot on Everton property after mocking us, then I suggest you think again.

Mike Green
174 Posted 15/04/2017 at 01:13:58
If it was me, I would invite him via all media outlets to dedicate 100 hours of his time to Everton In The Community.

I'm sure we can all think of some of the mentors that could chaperone him through his experience, from inside our club and from Liverpool Football Club and those that lost family and friends at Hillsborough too.

Day 1 would belong to Ross Barkley, I'll leave the rest to your imagination.

I'm sure he would screw his nose at it, go through the motions and probably disrupt the process as much as possible.

But – given the people, stories, places and passions he would undoubtedly meet he could be shown the way.

And if not – then it's his soul that's damned, not ours.

It's Easter – give him the chance and see what he says.

He might learn to love the place.

Anthony Dwyer
175 Posted 15/04/2017 at 01:19:08
The Sun has always been and will always be a cunt of a paper whose hacks should never be allowed into the ground.

After the carry-on over Hillsborough, their people shouldn't be allowed to enter the city.

Ernie Baywood
176 Posted 15/04/2017 at 02:08:25
They've set out to achieve what they wanted. That piece caused the necessary uproar. Doesn't matter who wrote it; they're all involved.

I don't think that rag can offend me. I hope Ross feels the same way. Can you be offended by the utterings of someone you have no respect for?

Just stop them coming in. They serve no purpose. No reason for wanting to engage with them. Don't even announce it, just take away their accreditation on the grounds that they aren't considered to be journalists.

Colin Gee
177 Posted 15/04/2017 at 02:25:23
Hope Ross scores a hat-trick tomorrow and takes off his shirt to reveal a t-shirt underneath that says "Kelvin Mackenzie, you are a cunt."
Paul Ferry
178 Posted 15/04/2017 at 03:11:23
That would really help, Colin (#177), wouldn't it, to keep the moral high ground. Really smart and sensible post, that one.
Will Mabon
179 Posted 15/04/2017 at 05:09:55
Over double the posts since I last looked. I can see and understand the justification for most viewpoints and suggestions for action expressed, even if they differ to mine.

The "Paper" itself has suspended MacKenzie, whether by choice or force of outside opinion, or who-knows-what.

I have to say, as one or two others have alluded to, there are often deeper machinations at work. I won't expand further than to say I find it strange that MacKenzies's piece was enabled by the unfortunate bar incident, and yet "slipped through" the editorial process, right before this particular weekend. Perhaps some might see other angles, too.

The last thing I'd like to see is any of the reactions of ourselves, the club, and in particular, Ross Barkley, mixed as ingredients into some vile cauldron of ongoing media and political gruel. Our reactions now, and any taken by the club, will just continue to build the story.

Also, Ross Barkley doesn't need any of this kind of pressure. I say, act later at Goodison as if nothing happened. I doubt MacKenzie's words can hurt him but a protracted fall-out might make him very uncomfortable in the spotlight.

As to the rag – why even ban it? I trust no-one would even think of taking a copy off the stand, even if free. Even those that may still read it elsewhere. Let it die right within and around the ground, around Liverpool. Every copy returned, always.

Bobby Mallon
180 Posted 14/04/2017 at 05:19:00
Ed Fitzgerald – how long did it take the RedShite to ban The Sun?
Andy Codling
181 Posted 15/04/2017 at 05:30:51
I live in Thailand and the majority of bars/restaurants that I go to for breakfast have The Sun or the Daily Mail. I will read neither based on the fact that I am not a fucking moron.

However it appears that the majority of people are happy to read these rags and quote them when discussing current affairs. Not a coincidence that most bigoted, racist Neanderthal scum are all ardent readers, these are the same people who have fell for the lie that immigrants and refugees are to blame for everything such as the failing NHS and health care services rather than the Tories attack on the poor.

The type of people who call you a snowflake if you have the slightest bit of empathy for your fellow human being instead of showing hate and vitriol.

John Daley
182 Posted 15/04/2017 at 05:46:03
Clearly the blert bitterly regrets his misjudged musings. According to MacKenzie, it is "beyond parody” for people to describe his article as “racist”. 

Beyond parody? I'd fucking love to prepare Barkley's response for him and put that theory to the test.

Meanwhile, the meffy rag itself chose to roll with the cop -out that "Columnists are supposed to have strong opinions that provoke debate among the readers."

Strong opinions? 'Ross Barkley resembles a monkey and is too thick to learn from his mistakes', claims the bloke without a racist bone in his body who previously said of 'performance' poet Benjamin Zephaniah: "He is black. He is a Rastafarian, He has tasted approved schools and Borstals... is this really the kind of man parents would wish to have teaching their sons and daughters?" Yeah, the fuckwittery is well and truly strong with this one.

Fortunately 'freedom of speech' does not equate to freedom from ever being called out on, or reaping the consequences of, the rancid crap you choose to spout.

Ian Linn
183 Posted 15/04/2017 at 05:52:38
It amazes me that firstly, somebody writes that shit but secondly, the editor reads it and thinks it's good to go to print in a national newspaper.

Staggering.

Nev Renshaw
184 Posted 15/04/2017 at 07:29:52
Why did the editor of The Sun pass this article for publication? He has the last word on what goes into the paper yet still went to press with this vile tripe. If anything, he's worse than Kelvin Macshitface.
Anthony Jones
185 Posted 15/04/2017 at 07:29:57
#145. Calm down. You are hysterical.

A Labour Politician wants a paper that has recently openly supported the Tories banned.

As I said. His opinion is irrelevant.

John Keating
186 Posted 15/04/2017 at 07:58:45
Unless I have missed something, I am still amazed that the Club have not commented on this matter.

We have always taken great pride, regardless of what we think of Blue Bill, of the fact that he has in the past outshone anyone in his gestures of support for worthwhile causes, sometimes taking the lead. Recently I can think of Hillsborough, young Bradley up in Sunderland, and Rhys Jones... yet here we are and the spotlight is on one of our own and ourselves and there seems a deathly hush.

Sometimes our Club can be so brilliant and then sometimes it can be fucking awful.

Clive Mitchell
187 Posted 15/04/2017 at 08:01:53
John - the club might take the view that the man's observations are beneath contempt and not worthy of comment.
Dermot Byrne
188 Posted 15/04/2017 at 08:01:53
Aside our long discussions last night about whether big issues exist or not, I really agree with your pragmatic post, Ernie (#176).

Now, off to the game thread

Darren Hind
189 Posted 15/04/2017 at 08:22:07
"I'd fucking love to prepare Barkley's response for him."

There'll be an awful lot of people on here who would love you to get that job too, John.

Colin Glassar
190 Posted 15/04/2017 at 08:34:32
I wonder if Neil Ashton (The Sun) mentions this on Sunday Supplement tomorrow? It will be interesting to see if he dares criticise his own rag/colleague.

Ashton is a good guy, btw. Should've stayed at the Daily Mail.

David Greenwood
191 Posted 15/04/2017 at 08:47:48
No chance, Colin.

Even if Ross scores a double hat-trick today, he won't be mentioned tomorrow!

Martin Mason
192 Posted 15/04/2017 at 08:51:05
Sorry, what that cretin said was disgusting and he's rightly been suspended for it.
Mike Berry
193 Posted 15/04/2017 at 08:55:36
This "rag" never learns, and when it's forced to, why is a retraction never on the front page, like the original sensationalism?

I cannot for the life of me even in a free country understand why anyone would read this grubby paper. If morons didn't buy it, then it would not survive.

Micky Norman
194 Posted 15/04/2017 at 08:57:19
The Sun likes battlecry headlines to increase sales. They tried to start a war over Gibraltear with their pathetic headlines and poster but it didn't work.

So now this manipulative arsewipe (the editor – not Mackenzie – he's an expendable anyway – just the nozzle through which the poison passes) has tried to declare war on a city. It just happens to be one which has by majority always been politically opposite to its own position.

What's the best way to start a feud with a family? Pick on one of the kids, especially one who's just had a bit of a hard time, and then spread slur onto the whole family. This was not a mistake by a rogue columnist. It was a clearly thought-out provocative strategy which came from the top of the shitpile.

Mike Kennedy
195 Posted 15/04/2017 at 08:58:00
I have never bought The Sun in all my 54 years – not even when asked to do so by others. It is a disgusting ultra right-wing rag.

However, I'm sorry, I'm with Voltaire:

'I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.' (Except I wouldn't break a nail to defend MacKenzie.)

That is boycott it, protest against it, don't invite their journalists (maybe) but don't ban free speech or you are in league with Trump, Putin, Erdogan, dictatorships, religious conservatives and ISIS etc.

Phil Sammon
196 Posted 15/04/2017 at 08:59:16
It's made the front pages of major British news websites. Surely it will get a mention.

Who fucking cares though. A huddle of clueless old hacks jabbering shit round a half-eaten breakfast. I'm amazed anyone tunes in.

Tony Cunningham
197 Posted 15/04/2017 at 08:59:39
Andy Codling (#181), the people who use the term "snowflake" haven't realised yet that it says more about themselves than the people they are trying to insult.

As for freedom of the press, I think I'm with Mick Davies (#173). There are only so many times someone should be allowed to insult someone before turning the other cheek isn't enough and they should be told where to go.

Ian Cowhig
198 Posted 15/04/2017 at 09:04:12
He has said that he didn't know about Ross's ancestry. Shows how poor a journalist is when he doesn't read up and understand his subject.

So the dickhead is now suspended. But what about the editor who let this through. Suspending MacKenzie is Just a smoke screen to try and appease the public.

Tony Abrahams
199 Posted 15/04/2017 at 09:11:06
James (#155), thanks for that link, and hopefully now the past is really going to catch up with this horrible man. (It catches up with everyone eventually.)

I thought this thread was going to get too political, but it never, and I've learnt off it. I never answered one of your earlier posts Eugene, because unless I'm talking to a child, I just don't do hypothetical. But your post at #145, made me think how strongly quite a lot of people feel about this newspaper, and when you read what Ste (#137) says about supposedly educated people, then perhaps it's time it was totally banished.

I say I don't do hypothetical, but then I think about the policeman who opened the gate at Hillsborough quite often. I could see that both those middle pens were overcrowded just after 2:35pm on that fateful day, so why didn't he have a line of policemen blocking the entrance to those two central pens when he made his decision to open the gates?

The past is the past, and it cannot be changed, but I now realise that this was the newspaper that peddled the lies for the Thatcher Government, to protect The South Yorkshire Police (and taht is were my own contempt will always lie, forever) then my vote will now be a Yes. But please don't turn our backs from the pitch at 3:06 pm today because I couldn't think of anything more disrespectful on the anniversary of Hillsborough.

Dave Abrahams
200 Posted 15/04/2017 at 09:22:04
Ed Fitzgerald (#127), yes we did make the government apologise for all the false accusations, the results of the inquiry are still being gathered, so the war goes on to get convictions for those culpable for what happened that day, including the cover up etc.

Ed, you asked for those who voted no to explain why, I've explained why. I repeat The Sun is a tiny piece of the media that will continue to be ignored by me and most people will make their own minds up, it stinks but it will continue to stink while making their stories up trying to arouse people's feelings. They will not arouse mine I'm well wise to them. Ed thanks for reading my reply and answering it.

Rob Halligan
201 Posted 15/04/2017 at 09:23:23
There are now big debates on the BBC national news about this now.
John G Davies
202 Posted 15/04/2017 at 09:28:19
Tony,

A fine post there. You're correct this newspaper is a tentacle of a machine that does its best to keep the working class downtrodden. They hate this city with a passion because we won't have it. Too rebellious for their liking.

We as a class are supposed to eat the shit they serve on a regular basis to keep their tax cuts going. When there's a shortfall where do they make the difference up? Increase the higher earners tax levels (without leaving the loopholes to surmount)? Do they fuck. They cut benefits, they cut the NHS budget, and their old favourites punish single mothers etc.

"What's that, you are severely disabled? Can you pick a telephone up? If so we will look at your benefits. In our opinion you are capable to work."

They create institutions like the Economic League to stop any worker who stands up for the workforce from getting a job.

They had a policy of managed decline for this city. It didn't work. They hate our city with a passion. Well one message to all of them. Fuck you. We are still here and here we will remain.

Illegitimi non caborrundum

Tony Abrahams
203 Posted 15/04/2017 at 09:31:52
Read the article in the Irish times, its obvious to anyone with a real brain, that MacKenzie has finally dug his own grave!
Eugene Ruane
204 Posted 15/04/2017 at 09:34:36
Will Mabbon # 179 - 'As to the rag – why even ban it? I trust no-one would even think of taking a copy off the stand, even if free. Even those that may still read it elsewhere. Let it die right within and around the ground, around Liverpool. Every copy returned, always.'

The ban suggested is not a ban on having the paper inside Finch Farm/Goodison, it is a ban on employees of the Sun inside Finch Farm/Goodison (eg: press conferences).

Bobby Mallon # 180 - 'Ed Fitzgerald – how long did it take the RedShite to ban The Sun?'

More pointless deflection that shines a light only on you (and your inability to debate beyond the level of a 10 year old).

For you (and anyone else) gleefully pointing out how long it took Liverpool FC to ban the Sun, see if you can get your brains to process the following.

Because dumb/horrible shit, like bear-baiting or feeding Christians to Lions or Prog Rock existed in the past, it doesn't mean they have to (or should) exist in the future.

It's that simple.

Should Liverpool have banned the Sun in 1989?

Of course...but they've done it now and that is the important thing.

(and so should we).

Anthony Jones - '#145. Calm down. You are hysterical. A Labour Politician wants a paper that has recently openly supported the Tories banned. As I said. His opinion is irrelevant.'

Oh dear, the lamest of lame, the Michael Winner/David Cameron response.

Can't debate the points made?

'Calm down!"

Can't deal with detail?

'You're hysterical'

I await 'You think your so clever' and 'you think you're better than everyone else' (or anything else that helps you avoid having to form a sensible argument).

I repeat - 'Joe Anderson (whether you like it or not) is also an Evertonian and his reaction today is simply the opinion of a fair-minded member of the human race (nb: not a perfect member or a faultless member, just a... fair-minded member). The easiest thing for him to have done would be to have said fuck-all and been 'a politician' – turn up at Goodison, enjoy the hospitality, stay out of the firing line. That he didn't is (imo) to his credit.'

If you think the specifics of that are questionable or wrong or flawed, I'm listening.

If the best you can do is 'calm down', you should be aware that this response only makes one of us look at twat. Clue: Link


Tony Abrahams
205 Posted 15/04/2017 at 09:41:50
John G, some people blame Derek Hatton, and the scouse militants, but I'm always convinced that bastard Thatcher, really hated Liverpool because of the soup-kitchens, we constantly provided for the striking Yorkshire Miners. I was only a kid, but everywhere you went in town in those days, there would always be people collecting for the miners, and why not?

Brent Stephens
206 Posted 15/04/2017 at 09:44:11
At a national level, will the backlash against McKenzie's diatribe take the attention away from the Hillsborough anniversary? Perhaps intentionally on McKenzie's part?
Brent Stephens
207 Posted 15/04/2017 at 09:47:25
And if this event means that Ross (a lad short on confidence, and possibly embarrassed by the punch in the bar and worried about the crowd reaction today) – if it means that he gets a cracking ovation today, well done, MacKenzie!
John G Davies
208 Posted 15/04/2017 at 09:48:50
Tony,

It makes me proud the way our people respond to support fellow working class. Look at the support we continuously give.

If you get a chance go and have a few pints in The Casa. Take in the history and feel the emotion of your chest bursting with pride.

You may only have been a kid but you noticed. That shows the upbringing your dad, and mine, gave you and me.

Stan Schofield
210 Posted 15/04/2017 at 10:14:09
Nev@184: Yes, the editor of The Sun is also responsible. As are his bosses, right to the top of the Murdoch empire which owns The Sun and sets the culture by which it operates.

This is why I say that if The Sun is banned, then the whole parent organisation, whose culture is the underlying cause of what The Sun does, should be banned. The entire edifice, or nothing.

Some might counter that it isn't practical to ban the entire organisation, because of the money involved with Sky. In response to that, I'd say that if money talks like that (which no doubt it will to a lot of people), then there's no point in moral posturing about The Sun. In this sense, banning The Sun is focusing on an effect of a root cause. But the root cause itself needs to be tackled. All or nothing. In my opinion, it's bullshit otherwise.

Tom Brown
211 Posted 15/04/2017 at 10:14:28
I am one of the 25% who voted not to ban them. Why? We are better than them. We are strong and when they denigrate us it highlights their own ignorance.

I defend free speech even when it means reading vile shit. When the law is actually broken (as here) the police should take action.

Of course I vote with my money and don't buy this crap but ban them from our club? No. Unfortunately, ensuring that we have a free press means that as well as enabling people to challenge the establishment... we enable people to express views that are mentally challenged.

Andrew Clare
212 Posted 15/04/2017 at 10:30:50
Thanks, Kevin.

Getting back to the subject of this thread, I do think that people should have the right to choose which newspaper they read, what is worrying is that so many choose to read The Sun and The Mail and actually believe what they put in print is true.

Rob Dolby
213 Posted 15/04/2017 at 11:03:25
I didn't think that the poll merited being posted. I thought that 99.999% of people would have voted to ban it. I didn't even consider placing a tick next to a box.

I have long stopped caring about what people think of Liverpool. There are far too many small minded, bigoted people in the world to start thinking about it.

The paper and its reporters shouldn't be allowed anywhere near our club for obvious reasons.

Ross seems to be one of those players that the media are quite happy to put the boot in at every opportunity. I fully expect it to get brushed under the carpet and the media to close ranks and not make too much of it.

Let's hope he has a blinder today.

COYB

Ed Fitzgerald
214 Posted 15/04/2017 at 11:10:02
Banning The Sun from the stadium and Finch Farm breaks no rules at all and doesn't compromise free speech whatsoever. Their journalists are free to report events remotely as the vast majority of journalists do all over the world through news agencies. If you want you can still buy the Sun.

For those questioning why it took Liverpool so long to ban tThe Sun, perhaps, it was to do with the closure of the public enquiry when the full extent of cover up, lies and deception became apparent. Of course Sky can't be banned as all clubs are in a contract with them via the Premier League.

Gestures of support are important and I can't understand why Everton won't support the families of the 96 by banning The Sun.

Today of all days it's time to unite against the vile lies that were told about our fellow citizens and our City as yesterday proves it's still happening.

Micky Norman
215 Posted 15/04/2017 at 11:48:24
A free press and free speech is a fine thing for a nation and for an individual, but when it's backed by a multi-million-pound organisation which uses its muscle for decades to denigrate a section of the community, it becomes propaganda. Repeat it often enough and it gets believed.

39,000 people today at Goodison have the opportunity to make their voices heard and ironically it will be televised by Murdoch's boys and go all over the world. Now that's what I call free speech.

As for banning the whole organisation (Sky)... Well we would be sued out of existence. The TV contracts for matches, news conferences, interviews, advertising etc are all part of the price you pay to be on the gravy train of the Premier League.

Even when Catterick banned the cameras in the 60s, we had to pay compensation to the away teams. It can't be done now.

Stock up with the sore throat sprays/lozenges and shout yourself hoarse today for Everton, the 96, for Ross and for the whole city.

Jim Potter
216 Posted 15/04/2017 at 11:54:14
If people want to contact the Independent Press Standards Organisation to complain about the rag and the racist who writes for it, the website is www.ipso.co.uk and you'll see the where and how.

I've never done it before but it felt a little cathartic to vent my spleen to an organisation that might actually have a minute chance of silencing this narrow minded bigot. A small chance is better than none.

And to me, banning this distasteful paper from our club doesn't seem an affront to freedom of speech (as individuals are still free to buy it) – but it would radically improve the match day atmosphere from my point of view.

Each to their own.

I guess I view it quite simply. Someone has incessantly insulted you, your family and your home for year upon year – and yet you continue to invite them over?! No. Not for me.

Eventually there have to be ramifications. Ban them.

And if, after time, there are guarantees given – then look at re-introducing them on a match-by-match basis.

Alexander Murphy
217 Posted 15/04/2017 at 11:59:35
Why have we not already banned these turds? We have absolutely no need for them, and their disgusting lies, so why accommodate them?
Richard Pike
218 Posted 15/04/2017 at 12:08:06
I'm not even from Liverpool and everything I've read about the article appalls me.

Leaving aside the needless slur against Liverpudlians in general, why the attack on a young man who (without knowing exactly what went on in that bar) doesn't appear to have done a lot wrong?

And as for the rag being "unaware of his heritage"... bollocks. A simple Wikipedia search would have revealed it, that's how I knew and I've known it for some time. Inexcusable.

Terence Tyler
219 Posted 15/04/2017 at 12:18:14
They are now banned.
Dan Egerton
220 Posted 15/04/2017 at 12:19:36
Mackenzie was suspended by The Sun. In other word,s he'll be back spewing nonsense soon enough.
John Keating
221 Posted 15/04/2017 at 12:20:06
Thank God.

It took them a while to get there but finally the Club have done the right thing and banned these twats.

Dan Egerton
222 Posted 15/04/2017 at 12:20:42
@218 Richard Pike's "A simple Wikipedia search would have revealed it."

I don't think The Sun reporters know how to research anything.

Brent Stephens
224 Posted 15/04/2017 at 12:26:05
The ban
Link
Tony Hill
225 Posted 15/04/2017 at 12:28:01
Wonderful. That sends me off with a spring in my step. Well done to all at the club, I think they reacted with reasonable speed all things considered...
Brent Stephens
226 Posted 15/04/2017 at 12:28:07
"The newspaper has to know that any attack on this City, either against a much respected community or individual, is not acceptable," the club said in a statement.

Spot on.

James Marshall
227 Posted 15/04/2017 at 12:30:42
Alexander Murphy
228 Posted 15/04/2017 at 12:30:43
Absolutely correct. Just seen the Everton statement. Wonderfully worded.
Steve Ferns
229 Posted 15/04/2017 at 12:38:37
Nicely done.
Don Alexander
230 Posted 15/04/2017 at 12:43:07
Credit where it's due, well done EFC.

Others have also stated the link between MacKenzie, the rag and Murdoch. Earlier I pointed out that this government have allowed Ofcom to take public opinion on whether or not Murdoch is "a fit and proper person" to massively increase his media influence in the UK by acquiring 100% of Sky. The decision's coming in May.

They say they will be swayed by public opposition so, if you think MacKenzie, the rag and Murdoch are a cancer in our midst, just sign in and protest. It's simple and quick.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-3/public-interest-test-sky-fox

Tony Draper
231 Posted 15/04/2017 at 12:47:08
Well done, Everton FC.

Freedom of speech. With freedom comes responsibility. The two are not inseparable.

Alexander Murphy
232 Posted 15/04/2017 at 12:55:06
Thanks Don for that link. Just took a peek, seems the deadline was the end of March. But glad you took part, just sorry that I didn't.
Andy Meighan
233 Posted 15/04/2017 at 12:56:38
Well done by the club, and let's hope that odious fat toad gets what's coming to him.
Chris Williams
234 Posted 15/04/2017 at 12:57:02
On reflection it seems unbelievable that this maggot or his editor would be unaware that today is an anniversary of the Hillsborough tragedy.

Coincidence?

Mike Keating
235 Posted 15/04/2017 at 13:00:14
Don,

I followed the link but the deadline was 30th March.

Well done EFC all the same.

Brent Stephens
236 Posted 15/04/2017 at 13:03:15
Chris, my suspicious mind says not a coincidence. It was a deliberate distraction from Hillsborough.
John G Davies
237 Posted 15/04/2017 at 13:15:08
Well done, Blues. 👍
John Audsley
238 Posted 15/04/2017 at 13:26:13
Might agree with that Brent. How the article got past the editors, legal team is very suspicious.

Full support for Ross today as always. The man had had a very, very tough week.

Stan Schofield
239 Posted 15/04/2017 at 13:43:16
Ed @214:

Regarding existing contractual obligations with Sky, in view of the root causes of the problems with The Sun (i.e. the culture of the Murdoch empire including Sky), a far more substantial move from EFC, LFC and other clubs would be to issue a statement to the effect that when the existing contractual obligations expire, there will not be any new contracts with Sky.

Now, that would be a REAL statement, one that does not kow-tow to the power of big money.

Dave Roberts
240 Posted 15/04/2017 at 13:53:14
Big Big roar today for Ross, lads and lasses.
Mick Davies
241 Posted 15/04/2017 at 14:34:15
Anthony Jones @ 185 A Labour Politician wants a paper that has recently openly supported the Tories banned.
As I said. His opinion is irrelevant

So the Mayor of the city, an elected politician, is irrelevant? You must have a better philosophy than the rest of us, so please let's hear this revolutionary new political idea...

Eric Myles
242 Posted 15/04/2017 at 14:47:21
Class statement, simple, to the point, and non-emotive.
Ed Fitzgerald
243 Posted 15/04/2017 at 14:50:39
Stan, I agree with your sentiment about the whole Murdoch empire but not banning The Sun would have been a mistake.

Well done, Everton; a dignified statement.

Mick Davies
244 Posted 15/04/2017 at 15:00:47
John G Davies @ 202, take a bow; my favourite post on this subject.

As for those talking about free speech, do you agree with the people who stopped the EDL from marching in Liverpool? Do you agree with the historical attacks by decent working people in London's East End who attacked Moseley's fascists?

There is no such thing as free speech: the media is controlled by the establishment, so tell me, where is the national newspaper that attacks the people in the Home Counties stockbroker belt, or the city of London and its thieving bankers? There isn't one, so why defend a daily celebrity rag that attacks the people of our city without any national right to reply?

Also, just watched SSN debating Ross, mentioning his trouble in town, but NO MENTION of that despicable racist slur on him. That's free speech for you – well done EFC for banning these overpaid (drug dealers?) excuses for journalists from our beloved club and its environs.

Stan Schofield
245 Posted 15/04/2017 at 15:08:04
Ed, yes, I agree that Everton have done the right thing, but at the same time would hope that it is simply the first stage in a bigger process of banning the entire Murdoch empire.

To those who point to freedom of the press as an argument for not banning, I would say that freedom of anything, including the press, is subject to constraints, like legal constraints and moral constraints that put limits on what is acceptable.

It is clear, from repeated events and the Levenson Inquiry, that too many activities of the Murdoch empire are not just unacceptable but intolerable. That is, they cannot be tolerated at any cost.

Dan Davies
246 Posted 15/04/2017 at 15:24:58
Mick @ 244, I like that post.

This is what they do. Manipulate people's minds away from real issues by spoonfeeding them stories comparing footballers with apes. As an example.


Gordon Crawford
247 Posted 15/04/2017 at 15:45:29
Just fantastic news. I'm over the moon. Now to make Sun toilet rolls. :)
Niall McIlhone
248 Posted 15/04/2017 at 15:46:53
Come the Revolution, I'd have MacKenzie, all the Murdochs, Boris Johnson, Jeremy Clarkson, Katie Hopkins and all of the Oxfordshire coterie tarred and feathered outside the town hall and paraded down Castle Street.

Myself, I think Ross has to maintain a dignified silence and do it on the pitch, just like the young Wayne Rooney did when those lazy, cynical right-wing London journalists tried to destroy his career before it had even really started.

Problem for them was, Wazza was just too good. You are too, Ross. Go out there and show those bastards, make us all proud.

Mick Davies
249 Posted 15/04/2017 at 17:13:34
Thanks Dan @ 246 I'd just like to point out to T'Webbers that I'm not related to yourself or John G.
Terry Underwood
250 Posted 15/04/2017 at 18:20:01
A vile man working for a vile paper... Sue his ass, Ross!
Jim Scales
251 Posted 15/04/2017 at 18:20:04
John @ 202. Fantastic post, rousing words there mate, and I for one enjoyed reading every word. I would be proud to call you family!
Ron Sear
252 Posted 15/04/2017 at 22:04:34
It hasn't taken long for another right-wing loudmouth to jump in on the side of the 'free press' in publishing articles that encourage the blatherings of the bloated self-important paid trolls: Link
Sean Kelly
253 Posted 15/04/2017 at 22:36:30
Eugene, take a bow, lad. I have read your arguments and some have twisted them to remind us of free speech.

Folks, free speech is for the birds. None of us can walk around calling someone the bile that he called Ross or we would be arrested. Let's see free speech at work in that rag of a paper and see if they print the comments of the decent folk of Liverpool in regard to Mr MacKenzie.

Don't hold your breath though, folks. It won't happen.

Martin Mason
254 Posted 16/04/2017 at 21:38:05
Free speech and a free press are the most important pillars of a democracy. With this freedom comes responsibility and the article on Ross wasn't responsible journalism. My surprise was that it was legal and that he was only slapped on the wrist.

The truth is that what he said was cleared first by the Sun and its lawyers.

John G Davies
255 Posted 17/04/2017 at 14:18:44
Jim (#251),

Just had this link sent to me. An absolute disgrace, hypocrisy of the highest levels the way they taint people unfortunate enough to be on benefits.

How Dave's chums are lining their porky pockets: This devastating investigation reveals how Cameron's No 10 mates have been enriching themselves by drawing on knowledge and contacts in power.

Eugene Ruane
256 Posted 17/04/2017 at 15:19:40
John (#255) – Change the word 'America' for Britain and this works just as well – Link

Basically as long as we are generally dumb enough to allow ourselves to be easily (willingly?) divided, the elite have nothing to fear.

As long as there are enough idiots (and there are!) to readily swallow a daily Murdoch/Rothermere drip-drip diet of "Scousers are robbers" or "Immigrants are cockroaches" or "Glaswegians are drunks" or "The Royals are lovely" or "Theresa May is a Christian" or whatever dumb bollocks will distract the majority from critical thinking and being able to see what is actually happening around them, nothing will change.

Depressing... but there it is.

Chris Williams
257 Posted 17/04/2017 at 15:26:53
Totally agree, Eugene.

Just watched that clip and it speaks the truth. Do we have anybody in this country doing the same job as George? Can't think of anyone offhand.

Used to be protest singers once upon a time but now we get Simon Cowell.

Kevin Tully
258 Posted 17/04/2017 at 15:38:58
This is a decent read from F365:

Link

John G Davies
259 Posted 17/04/2017 at 15:51:05
Great link Eugene.
George has got it.

Divide and conquer.
It's their golden rule.

John G Davies
260 Posted 17/04/2017 at 15:54:36
The follow on clip from George is spot on for me as well Eugene.

Tony Hill
261 Posted 17/04/2017 at 15:58:56
I agree, Eugene, but this city has retained better than most an instinct for communal resistance and the intelligent expression of working class claims. There is hope in that provided it does not become sentimental.

I believe that people are tiring of the cartoon existence which is fed to them daily, and of the empty capitalist malice peddled by the Murdoch, and many other, empires. Education, as always, is the key; defeating the poverty of expectation and recovering skill and craft.

Tony Hill
262 Posted 17/04/2017 at 16:05:38
I should add that by "skill and craft", I do not mean only the practice of proper creative industry (though that is very much to be desired), but skill and craft in the practice of life against those who would, and do, stamp upon us.
Stan Schofield
263 Posted 17/04/2017 at 18:32:43
Eugene@256: Perhaps it's not as depressing as it used to be. People don't change, but the organisation of people does change. Advances in technology help this, and some would argue are largely responsible for it.

I think that, despite what the media try to say, advances in information technology is a bigger threat to the powerful who are dodgy than it is to ordinary folks. The lot of ordinary people improves, and it becomes more difficult for the powerful to divide and conquer despite the inherent tendency for people to be divided and conquered.

Still very bad things happening, to be sure, but on the whole, the balance sheet of good versus bad improves. In the case of The Sun, the open analysis and criticism of it, and more widely the Murdoch empire, is enabled, and very rapid, because of this technology we have.

Dermot Byrne
264 Posted 17/04/2017 at 19:04:18
Eugene: you are so right. It is not by accident Trump and team, UKIp etc invest heavily in social media and especially Twitter. It is an ideal forum to keep the uneducated or naive on board with catchy, easily digestible messages and, above all, avoid serious debate through 140 character limit. The databases of companies are worth so much now.
Dan Davies
265 Posted 18/04/2017 at 22:46:01
Eugene, Carlin hit the nail on the head. I also admired Bill Hicks.
Will Mabon
266 Posted 20/04/2017 at 07:57:03
Well – several "Awake" type posts, and not a single tin foil hat retort. Things are looking up.

Gradually, slowly, people are starting to see.

Every time a new "President" of the US is elected, I always remember what Bill Hicks said. After the fanfare, the new incumbent is led into a dark room by the security services, and shown a film of the Kennedy assassination, after which one turns to him and says:

"Any questions?"

John Wilson
267 Posted 20/04/2017 at 12:16:32
Lyndon Lloyd states this: "Everton face fresh calls to ban vile newspaper."

Selling newspapers is a business. A company is a legal personality for an individual, or individuals. Using the term 'vile' is rather biased, too. 'Said to be vile', 'perceived to be vile', 'considered by many to be vile' is appropriate if you have a personal opinion that Sun is vile or you wish you represent the views who consider said newspaper to be vile. It has been nearly 30 years for heaven's sake.

German companies were likely involved one way or another in the holocaust. Who controlled the train's time tables. Which systems controlled the numbers and other things.

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

» Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.