Everton face fresh calls to ban vile newspaper

I lazily clicked the 'Yes' button and waited for the percentage.

My guess was that maybe there'd be 3 or 4 percent so bitter and blind that they'd press whatever narked reds.

The result genuinely shocked (and depressed me).

25% had pressed 'No'

To be clear, 25% of Twers who participated decided - 'No..don't ban the Sun'

"Yeah but we don't know how many voted, might have only been a couple of.."

4600+ voted, so well over a thousand for no ban.

At the time I left it, didn't even mention it on here, but I do so now because I saw this earlier on twitter Link

Barkley is basically portrayed as an ape (specifically by Kelvin McKenzie).

And you know who they're/he's talking about as well as Ross?

You!

Try to get your head around this, apart from their lies about the victims of Hillsborough, this putrid arse-wipe continually sells the idea (to mouth-breathers around the rest of the country) that our city is a shit-hole and the people who live and work here are more or less a different species – idle, feckless, thieving, violent and dumb.

One more thing, people can vote how they want but do me a favour, next time a debate gets heated and someone replies (to me) with "Look, we're all Evertonians, we shouldn't be..." they can get fucked.

This totally transcends Everton/Liverpool rivalries, as you say Hillsborough was a cacophony of lies against the people of Liverpool and as that article suggest, yet another pop at us. I am staggered 25% voted not to ban that rag.

I am not surprised or even disappointed by it because that particular individual is totally marinated in his own prejudices and spends his time feeding the prejudices of others,alongside arsewipes with similar prejudices and purposes which don't need naming.

I can't even get angry any more because he and the Neanderthals who 'read 'this shite are truly beyond redemption and predictably live down to the lowest expectations.

It just makes me sad that in the society we have created there is clearly a need and a demand for such bilge.

Joey Barton and Stan Collymore have got properly stuck into those morons at that benighted rag and Joe Anderson has had a go at the club for not banning it and it's supposed journalists.

Hopefully now we might see some reaction from Everton FC.

McKenzie has shown what a fucking hypocrite he really his, because he obviously never really meant his phoney apology, but how much power does Murdoch have in all of this?

South Yorkshire Police, The Thatcher Government, and The English FA, were all three equally guilty in this disaster for different reasons, in my opinion, and although going after a newspaper is fine, it's nowhere near fine enough for me.

The fella who just walked away from TalkSport, or the fella who has just refused to go on the honours list are the real heroes to me because they are simply pointing at "The Real Truth" and are also stretching their own principles a lot further than anyone who subscribes to Rupert Murdoch's Sky TV.

Colin Murray, who walked away from TalkSport, is obviously a man of principle who I have a lot of respect for, but there are many ex-RS players and managers working for Sky now. One ex-manager even did an interview with the paper not so long after the tragic event.

As I say, your choice, but I'd be interested in the following hypothetical:

Pretend the Sun was banned after Hillsborough and then (given their history since) see what actual sensible reasons you could find for allowing them back to Goodison/Finch Farm.

Their coverage is honest?

They don't single out the city of Liverpool/Scousers for 'special' treatment?

Hillsborough was a long time ago?

The Sun has changed?

Ian (#67) – "Tony, I'm with you in the 25 %. Why ban The Sun after all these years? Colin Murray, who walked away from TalkSport, is obviously a man of principle who I have a lot of respect for, but there are many ex-RS players and managers working for Sky now. One ex-manager even did an interview with the paper not so long after the tragic event."

I'm confused, are you saying you want to align yourself NOT with a man of principle, but with assorted dumb, grasping Liverpool players and an ex Liverpool manager?

They did... so I will?

Do you know what two wrongs DON'T make?

The City of Liverpool is thriving with regards to tourism now, so the bollocks that worked in the eighties is no longer so easy to believe, simply because people are seeing us with their own eyes rather than through the phoney lies of a Margaret Thatcher driven media.

(Get on it, Bill, don't blow the dock!)

He did a fucking right job in the press about what a shithole Liverpool was, and the fact he wouldn't recommend anybody stay in the City.

Guess where he stayed? Yes, the finest hotel in Liverpool, The Adelphi. He clearly chose that particular hotel, ignoring all the decent places to stay, so he could get back to London and do a hatchet job.

These type of Southern-based Tory pricks love to run down the reputation of Liverpool at every opportunity, and regardless of your politics, or football club, every one of us should be united in the quest to point out the lies they peddle, and the vile agenda they have against this particular region.

Personally, I think it's all still a hangover from the Thatcher years. They really need to move on in that lovely, crime ridden City of London.

Look, I'm going to be honest. So far, I have found Liverpool to be a ghastly city. The Albert dock area is lovely, but from what I have seen of the rest of it, it makes Gaza look welcoming. It's now that I understand perfectly why lots of famous people profess to love Liverpool so much they move away at the first opportunity and never return if they can help it.

Driving in on Sunday it was quite apparent that what money the council has had has been blown on regenerating the docks area to the exclusion of everywhere else. There seem to be a large number of second world war bomb sites which haven't been touched in 60 years. It gives a terrible impression to people visiting for the first time.

And then there's the Adelphi Hotel. A shocker. I vaguely remember watching a fly on the wall documentary about it a few years ago. Believe me, it hasn't got any better. They are charging £189 a night for a room with no internet, no mini bar, a room service menu which has a choice of two things and which is only available for an hour a day (OK, I exaggerate a little on that) and a TV which was built circa 1976. Oh, and its car park resembles a Kevin Webster style MoT bay. But the bathroom does have a set of bathroom scales, so that's nice. What an absolute dive of a hotel.

I know Liverpool has many fans. A good friend of mine loves the place. She regularly comes here for weekend breaks. God alone knows why. If I never came back again ever, it would be too soon. I suspect the feeling will be mutual after this.

I have lived in Essex for over 30 years and still get the old chestnut: "Oi Scouse, got any hubcaps? " When you give them an fashioned Anglo-Saxon reply and mention barrow boy and spivs, they still get shirty and want to know why you can't take a joke.

That scumbag journo is helping perpetuate the myth that all scousers are worthless and thieves.

I'm actually gobsmacked that a journalist would still hold such views about Liverpool. I thought we had left all that behind.

I went to Belfast as a kid; although we were only kids and it was an imposing place, I absolutely fucking loved my few days, in such a special place. It instantly reminded me of home, much more than a lot of places in England, and it taught me how much power the media have to print anything they want about a place that nobody wanted to visit. Which is no longer true about Liverpool!

It should be cut up to a standard arse-wiping size so that we can lead the country in suitably branding the product.

As for Kelvin McKenzie, the turd can now voice his opinion in ways that must make the likes of Katie Hopkins proud.

Scum.

No wonder Ross struggles with confidence. Truly awful.

If we have a lawyer on here (NB, not a lawyer per se), I would be interested in their views.

Barkley could come across really clever though and make a statement along the lines of "The only reason I'm not going to sue this lying idiot for libel is because nobody in our city takes this silly old man seriously anymore."

Not my opinion by the way, just passing on what I've read.

I'm gobsmaked that this piece of shit has the nerve to leave the sewer he was banished to.

I'd like to rearrange his ham and eggs and I'd happily do it for free.

As far as Ross is concerned, I feel genuinely sorry for the lad, only a twat would make a personal statement like Mackenzie has about a young person.

Take the moral high ground Ross, and ask MacKenzie, to donate some of his fortune, to the EitC Foundation, and some more to the underprivileged kids in our city, and to keep his apologies to himself!

The day crass shit like his worries me, the day he wins. Unless someone with cash tries to sue, he will keep doing this as it is how he makes a living. Reaction (with the protection of Sun lawyers) is what keeps him happy and employed.

So, whilst I support those who agree to stop selling it, far more powerful is just people never buying it. If that happens outlets will just return it to wholesalers and stop ordering it.

And if, after all the shit they have flung at the City and the vulnerable and defenceless, it still has healthy sales in Liverpool, then I am more worried by those who still buy it than some prat who writes for The Sun.

Should anybody write, I would suggest you state the facts and don't slip to his gutter level, so he can't come back saying, "You should see the letters I have received with vile threats."

And whilst I'm fully in sympathy with any outrage Ross and others may be feeling, I'd suggest the last thing he needs to do is initiate any legal action. That's always stressful for individuals versus wealthy parasites such as Murdoch, the Sun's owner.

The following is a link to OFCOM who in mid-May will have to decide whether or not Murdoch is to be allowed 100% control of Sky, as he is seeking. OFCOM are inviting members of the public to give their opinion as to whether he is, try not to laugh, "a fit and proper person."

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-3/public-interest-test-sky-fox

It's easy and quick to do, and will add to the campaign to force even this government to tell him to piss off.

At the same time using Ross to crave attention for his own pompous supposedly superior intellect and lifestyle, he takes satisfaction in mocking the the whole City and its people.

What a sad, pathetic excuse for a journalist and man.

I for one would love to see our Chairman make a public statement on this and back the Mayor one hundred percent. Bill, where are you? Stand up man!

Shun The Sun.

The last thing we need is the club being in trouble for an attack on a press reporter.

Ditto for Liverpool. It's a token gesture that achieves nothing. The only way to beat them is to stop reading, watching and paying for their bile and stop giving pondlife like MacKenzie the oxygen that cockroaches like him depend on.

I said before I would totally support the club if they banned everything to do with Murdoch – I appreciate that would mean the end of EFC as we know it but I would hand on heart fully support that. But banning the Sun only – just seems like a half-hearted measure.

I'd ban that filthy rag from the ground and let the Custiss Bros go mental.

Horrible horrible specimens.

I can't believe anyone still buys that rag let alone reads it.

Never has a newspaper lived up to its name as "gutter press" as much as The Sun.

I hope Ross sues the bastard.

I agree that the club should ban The Sun at press conferences etc to show that we do care about Ross, and that we won't have this filth written about our own players, the people of the city, or the city itself.

Time for the board to show some true grit and take the right action and ban the rag and take these disgusting excuses for people to court and sue them.

The world and his wife have had their say, and according to Joe Anderson he had already raised the issue of a ban on the rag privately with Elstone, seemingly to no avail.

The only thought I had since this broke is how right wing tabloid columnists love having a pop at Liverpool. Not cities with similar history like Newcastle or Glasgow.

I think the reason is they are guaranteed that some scouser will spot it and collective, ever-increasing outrage is a cert. Brill for the columnist reading figures.

Then to have a police investigation and your article taken down (but still available on net) is even better.

Promise me if Katie Hopkins has a swipe at the architectural beauty of Speke tomorrow you won't go ape shit and make it viral.

Tomorrow seemingly.

As individuals we can decide whether we buy The Sun or not; nobody should ever demand that in a liberal democracy anybody can ban a legal entity like The Sun.

As for this smear (it's not an article as writing one takes thought and reason), I expect nothing else. Don't buy it ,don't read it ,and most of all, never wipe your ass on it as that means you have to touch it...

Now stop watching Sky – it's all one and the same.

Furthermore, it's the same man making derogatory comments about the City today who spread lies about Hillsborough in the first place and was instrumental in promoting a culture of abuse towards the City and its people from many parts of the media at that time.

Gestures count, like wearing a poppy to show respect, having a minutes silence to remember someone who has passed away, and banning a newspaper and its journalists who appear to take delight in berating the City of Liverpool.

No mention of any other ban. Read what you want.

For what ends, I don't know but one thing for sure is that MacKenzie once again has shown exactly what a reptile he is.

The lads in work have TalkShite on constantly, it's always full of kopites (with Scouse accents) contributing.

Mackenzie was (could still be) a major player in that station, I think it's owned by a Sky subsidiary as well, which is owned by Murdoch.

FFS, if your gonna have morality then follow it through and don't pick and choose. I don't have Sky by the way but it's a personal choice – not one born out of moral values, as I will go the pub and watch the game.

Someone's starting to see it. If not deliberate by the paper, deliberate by the author. Shitbag that he is, does anyone really think MacKenzie would be unaware of the effect of this? That his writings are an unavoidable consequence of his character as opposed to intellectual intent?

To rise to it is to fall for it.

Remember the son of the bastard (Murdoch) is now in full command of his empire.

https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/852950384352137216

As for this article, it just proves what a turd the guy is. The BP garage near my work on Trafford Park gives that rag away on a daily basis, mustn't even be doing well in the Manchester region!

Fuck that cunt Mackenzie, fuck The Sun. Their bile against the city and people of Liverpool – and their depiction of all Irish as alcoholics and terrorists, says more about them than any of us.

That's okay then. Okay to slur Scousers too by the look of it.

Everton???

As for banning the paper from the ground. Pointless. Just don't buy it.

Something in me reacts if someone tells me I cannot do something. It takes away my moral choice. A bit like all the folk on TV who are told to wear a poppy.

The Sun is finished in our city but the phoney lying establishment-backed bastard who created so much harm to anybody connected to Hillsborough has got away with it for way too long and maybe it's time for the people to really go after him?

That phrase "just coz your offended doesn't make you right" is one I think can at times ring true.

It's what you do in response that is the choice. Complain to authorities is possible.

Sueing for libel is rarely accessible to folk and hard to prove. Rant and argue on social media? Works for us lot. Ban the actions of others who may like the paper? Nah. A step to far. That is their choice and I would stand up for that choice even if it annoys the crap out of me.

I voted not to have the Blues follow this as it appeared to me to be tokenism after "they" and theirs had been so intimately involved with all things Murdoch in the intervening years.

A reason from them about why now might make me take a different view.

I was thinking the same just before I cast my vote on the ToffeeWeb poll and didn't like the way that the Mirror (owners of the Liverpool Echo) seemed to be using the genuine hurt and anger of fellow Scousers to attack a rival newspaper.

I had also read the arguments that the Sun have a different workforce now who had nothing to do with those disgusting reports of 28 years ago.

However, in the end I just couldn't bring myself to endorse that argument and voted with the 75% who wanted to ban The Sun. I kept seeing the face of Margaret Aspinall and felt that if I showed any support for the Sun at all I would be letting her and the rest of the 96 families down.
Let's hope the 25% who voted to allow The Sun at Goodison have learnt the lessons pointed out by Eugene, and others, and stop supporting the rag.

By the way, Dave, I don't have Sky or go to watch it at the pub; I never listen to Talk Sport either, miserable bastard aren't I?

I am glad I made that choice. I am from Belfast and I honestly believe that the people of Liverpool are treated with more contempt than we are.

To me, Belfast, Liverpool and Glasgow are either demonized or patronized. MacKenzie isn't a journalist. He does not inform, educate, enlighten or entertain. He confirms and endorses the opinions of those who have never had an original thought in their life.

Why didn't he stay at one of the Hilton Hotels, Raddison or Malmaison on offer? All cheaper than the £185.00 he supposedly paid to stay in a dump.

The last paragraph nails it. Great words!

A year or two ago, an extremely despicable far right group was allowed to 'march' in Liverpool, against the wishes of the Merseyside public. These vile retards never even got out of Lime Street Station and had to be protected by police, just to get back on the train.

So if you're wondering why that scum comic hates us so much, then just think about the readership, they're immature views and extreme right wing mentality, and you'll understand.

We are not seeking to close down The Sun, we merely say that we should not be required to invite those who have shat upon us and our own, and would shit upon us again and again, into our house.

What I find really confusing is that McKenzie has cost Murdoch millions in lost revenue (the only direction on that twat's moral compass) and he still has McKenzie writing garbage for The Sun.

Currently reading And the Sun Shines Now by Tempany. Well worth a read – the ultimate irony being that the Taylor Report indirectly led to the creation of the Premier League and the media monopoly of the game by Sky TV.

"Good things happen to bad people on a regular basis" but what makes it harder to take is when they benefit from bad things they did in the first place.

My main point is Liverpool (all of us) have won The War why start a battle when the war has been won.

However, fuck The Sun, they are unimportant to me in the whole affair, the war should be carried on against people like Bernard Ingram, Thatchers press officer, who is still making the accusations that have been exposed has false, he was the one gave the media these stories to begin with.

Then we should carry on against The Police in charge of the game that day, carry on until they charged and face these charges in a court of law.

Next to face the people of Liverpool are the FA who arranged the game and refused requests to give the fans allocations to different ends of the ground, I'm of Graham Kelly who was the FA secretary at the time.

Carry on the fight against these three and let The Sun stew in it's own very small part of the media.

We know what happened at Hillsborough, not only 96 died on that day, you don't have to die to lose your life; thousands of people's lives have never been the same since that terrible day. Fuck The Sun – carry on against the other guilty parties.

I won't even give a second glance to it, or anyone I see reading it, and nether should anyone with any sense of human decency. Anything News Corp touches is filthy, and shameful.

I'm not at all sure there was racist intent in that piece and, without that, the article is no worse than the kind of shite that newspaper and others like it print on a daily basis.

Anyway, they've suspended MacKenzie now, so I'd say we've made our feelings known pretty effectively. For me, that's the way forward.

I'm miserabler than you. I only go the pub cos my wife kicks me out for being miserable.

It's an age thing; the older I get the more miserable I get and I love every fucking minute of it.

And humans (all of us) have our frailties and weaknesses. But the idea of applying that and saying "so no point in trying" is fucking insane.

As is any 'two wrongs make a right' bollocks.

You have Sky?

Who gives a fuck – BAN THE SUN!

You listen to Talksport?

Who gives a fuck – BAN THE SUN!

You voted Brexit?

Who gives a fuck – BAN THE SUN!

Everything isn't logical, every argument isn't straightforward, some things are just... gut.

This imo is one of those things.

This city and it's people and it's football clubs (us!) have without doubt been targeted by this rag – you need to know more?

You want to argue 'Yeah but no but..."

Of course you'll get semantics and muddy-the-water nonsense by the likes of Martin Mason but I think most (here) know what he's all about (haven't seen a post by him in months but NOW he's here).

Ban the fucking Sun at Everton – tonight!

It doesn't matter if he intended to be racist, the fact is that people who are racist will lap up his remarks and others will be greatly offended.

Racism apart, there's no doubt he was making deliberately insulting comments about Scousers. Not to mention direct, unwarranted abuse at Ross. I think the club have to ban The Sun at this point because not doing so would create a bigger stir than doing so.

This is why Murdoch is so fucking powerful.

I don't give a fuck!

Exactly.

It's not just the author but also the editor that allowed it who should be brought to account.

I am genuinely curious about one thing though: if anyone on here still plans to buy the Sun, what would it take for you to cease the practice? What would they have to do? Where would you draw the line?

Bullshit baffles brains.

One is a restriction of rights, the other is exercising one's rights.

28 years ago on this very night, many Liverpool fans would have went to bed excited and looking forward to their FA Cup Semi-Final, the very next day. Hillsborough is a memory that has given me many silent tears... and has also, and still continues to be, the master of the English cover-up.

It strictly targets people with an IQ in double digits.

Would that let out John Wilson?

If we continue to tolerate this rag then we cannot claim the special soul and common bond which have always been our boast. All the stuff about being chosen and the rest of it will be so much empty bollocks.

Part of the reason not to ban it, is that the people banned it themselves; you never see a copy in the newsagents. If you see a student or someone from out of town reading it, someone will always remind them why they shouldn't buy it.

After this Ross Barkley incident, we should ban it. Not just because what he said about Ross, but what he said about us, the city and its people.

When the inevitable apology comes, it should not be we're sorry. I want a big splash over four pages or so that reads like a tourism advert, under the headline, "Why Kelvin Mackenzie was so wrong about Liverpool".

Show pictures of the attractions, how the city centre is booming, and not just the docks. The Sun has a duty now to correct the Harry Enfield stereotype that they still peddle two or three decades later.

I'd really like to witness a quiet chat like that...

Won the war have we? Have you read the article printed by The Sun today? It doesn't feel like a war has been won to me after reading the comments made about the people of Liverpool in the article.

The paper holds the City in the same contempt it always has done. The whole City should support the ban.

EFC should wait and see what happens to this clown before considering bans.

Whether Joe Anderson thinks EFC should ban them is irrelevant. He is a politician.

However, we vote for a new mayor in a few weeks and he's not on the ballot. So I don't think he is pandering here. It's probably something he personally feels strongly on.

My Uncle was at Hillsborough he used to be in the army and did a few tours of Northern Ireland. He had some hairy times over there but has said that nothing would compare 15 April 1989. Two days before I was born and my mum didn't know if her brother was alive or not, partly due to reports from that drivel that's better put to use in toilets for emergency shit roll.

I know how much it affected him as we watched the TV drama about it last year and he broke down. He is a Red and I'm a Blue but every time my local garage (in Yeovil) offer a free copy of The Sun when I buy petrol, I take it and throw it straight in the bin outside just so one person less can avoid reading that shite!

Liverpool is my family, the Reds are still my family. You slander, abuse, attack my family with lies and slurs, ridicule me or mine, then there is no such thing as politically correct or splitting of hairs – that's appeasement.

There is a basic principle involved. Right or wrong... you should not even have to think about it.

It is a rag and probably highly absorbent to make it easier to use in outside toilets. No need to encourage me to boycott this disgusting, bigoted piece of garbage. It has never been glanced at by myself for years.

Liverpool is the happiest and most friendly city in the UK and I have never heard a bad word about the place from any outsider or foreign visitor. Outside London it has the most listed buildings and the 2nd largest Hall (St George's) in the UK. It is by far the best value for food and drink anywhere plus the music scene is wonderful.

By comparison Manchester is sprawling, expensive, less friendly and has very little musical entertainment in the pubs. Liverpool as a city has won more football trophy's than any other city in England.

I am so proud of Liverpool. :)

I never buy, or subscribe to, any of the national dailies and would shed no tears if the Mail, Express, Sun etc disappeared from the shelves. As with most of the printed media, their days are probably numbered anyway.

In the meantime, it seems to me preferable to ignore them. Extending the ban might just prove to be counterproductive in providing even more succour to those who are always looking for any pretext to denigrate our city and its people.

As to whether or not a hate crime has been committed, we should allow the law to take its due course.

Come on, Farhad; come on, Bill – this stuff can't be about gestures and striking poses; it requires simple action.

I went to university in the East Midlands so I was the only scouser in the group. I quickly found out that I was one of a few who actually had any proper football-going experience, particularly dating back to the 80s. I should add this was back in 1998.

Luckily I was on the families side, though my lecturer did say that he would have moved me if I'd be selected on the side of the police. I was quite shocked by the views of the group.

Here was an educated and well read group of people peddling the age old lines as popularised by the likes of the sun. Thankfully, my passion and football knowledge was enough to answer their case and we won the moot. It was a real eye opener at just how much even educated people believe what they read.

The constant belittling of Liverpool, the scouser jokes, and all the stereotypes never die as they keep getting repeated and lead to brain washing of people who repeat these views without thinking.

Then Eugene gives those who think they feel most that sort of literary knowing nod... A sort of "we, true blues/scousers" know. Gut.

No. Just some think one way, others different ways.

Like a lot of the longer threads on here, by the time we pass 100 the arguments have descended into egos, anger between ourselves and an end to sensible discussion between folk who support the same team.

It may just be that my gut feeling is there are bigger issues here. But I do agree with Eugene in that it is never neat and tidy.

Never let them around anything EFC related again.

No idea what that even means, politicians can only comment on politics?

Joe Anderson (whether you like it or not) is also an Evertonian and his reaction today is simply the opinion of a fair-minded member of the human race (nb: not a perfect member or a faultless member, just a... fair-minded member).

And believe me, you finding fault with him pointing out his disgust at MacKenzie's piece and calling for a ban, doesn't for a second reflect badly on him.

By the way, the easiest thing for him to have done would be to have said fuck-all and been 'a politician' – turn up at Goodison, enjoy the hospitality, stay out of the firing line.

That he didn't is (imo) to his credit.

Michael Lynch (#109) – 'Kieren, of course it matters. And are you seriously suggesting Everton should ban anyone who makes deliberately insulting comments about scousers, or says nasty things about one of our players? And the club should ban the Sun because a mob is baying for blood?"

Pathetic! Because The Sun IS a 'mob baying for blood' every single day and that is why every decent person should want it banned from everywhere.

It is aimed at the thick and angry. It plays on the worst in humans, it manipulates the slow-witted, knowing there will always be plenty who can be easily cajoled and prodded and pushed into laughing at others or worse bullying them.

The gang mentality, safety in numbers, yet when you shine a light on them, they run for cover – "all we meant was..." and "it was taken out of context" etc blah whine.

In my lifetime I've seen that rag turn its sights on the Irish, Pakistanis, Sikhs, Scousers, refugeees, gays, immigrants, Argentinians, Spanish, French, Italians and many many more – there's always been someone for them to scream their 'patriotic 'outrage at and there's always been plenty of nob-heads to go along with their lowest common denominator shite.

They are the burgermeister who organises the mob to chase Frankenstein's monster. Hate, outrage and a pair of tits, there's fuck all else to it and anyone defending it in any fashion sounds (to me) like a reader (or Dermot).

A poltroon, a dolt, a child putting forward a child's argument from the dot-to-dot argument book – "When this... so that... then these. I win!"

(nb: He won't mind me saying any of that as, in his words, 'abuse is all part of the same business').

I am looking forward to our club announcing a stinging reply to this article.

An EFC ban on The Sun means not giving them access to the ground, training, press conferences or interviews. They can still print whatever shit they do which no-one in the city reads. A small but worthwhile gesture, as has been said.

As for Sky Sports... who is still paying for that!? Watching football on a hooky internet feed is now a positive moral choice.

While the racist dimension is important, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the thick Scouser jibe is further evidence that class is now the last bastion of 'socially acceptable' prejudice.

Anyway you know well this inevitably ends up at the free press issue.

Perhaps time to stop arsing around on the way there.

The 1st half of last season, when Delboy was making things happen, they covered him weekly until OFM stopped playing him. They loved Gerard, even his diving got coverage.

So they posted this, the writing about and damning of MacKenzie's article not a re-print of something from Liverpool, but from an American journalist.

Link

I've mentioned it many times over the years in here. I'm saying it again. Everton Football Club is a well-recognized and respected Club here in America.

It doesn't matter. It really doesn't. This isn't about wider debate or politics. It's very very simple. It's about our club reflecting the views of the massive majority of supporters and standing up for us, those who died and our city. End of.

I sometimes find it hard to understand our Board at the best of times. A bit less so in the last 18 months. I'm not sure I could ever see why the Board thought it was right to make their stand about press freedom or "thin end of the wedge" etc, rather than make their stand about us, what most of think, what the right thing to do is.

I thought we were now better than making these huge mistakes. But guess what? Here we are in a position where, whatever happens next, we are being taken there by a politician, albeit a blue who – whilst not everyone's idea of a good guy – has just stuck his neck out a fair way to at last get the council to actively support the new stadium project.

If we announce the ban, it's going to be because Anderson pushed us there. Not great, that... but I'd rather have it than we do nothing. As for a turn-your-back protest at 15:06 on Saturday, I hate it; I hate the thought of turning my back on those wearing our shirt, even for a few seconds. But somehow I think I will be joining in if it has to happen because Mr Moshiri has to see how we feel.

This matters to us. The other arguments, the great debate whatever. This matters and it's time to be counted I think regardless of how uncomfortable it may feel. Ban The Sun now and accept you got it wrong, Everton; we will respect you for doing it more than you know.

The Sun and its journo's are free to write & report on any subject they think their target audience want to read about. Whether that's a celeb's fanny surgery, or a builder who can eat 43 Snickers bars in one go, they're as free as ever to put this type of tripe in their 'newspaper'.

Barring them from Goodison or Finch Farm is just that. They're not welcome in our club because of their lies and vitriol. Linking any ban to 'free speech' is a load of old shite and disingenuous.

Buy the paper if you want. EFC will do what they want re Sun access to GP.

Free press? Anybody wanting to buy and read that rag can do it elsewhere if it so pleases them. They can even choose to read it on the internet if they want to.

I'm more concerned with Everton Football Club making a stand and a statement not just on the Barkley issue but with The Sun in general.

Those in the hierarchy of the club need to respond one way or another because to try and ignore this would be weak and embarrassing, in my humble opinion.

Big difference surely? Nowt wrong with that.

This is, in my view posturing shit, we've rightly supported memorials and silences and the decision by the families to call a halt was right. We'll never forget.

The right thing to do now is about this issue of Barkley. If the shite had any sense and solidarity they would chant his name before their away game (but no, they use any issue to focus on themselves).

No question that we should do likewise and give a minute's applause at 8 minutes, his number. It should be presented as a protest about racism and bigotry in The Sun newspaper.

Final vent – Hit them where it hurts. Sue MacKenzie personally, the sub-editor and editor who should have read the article and go all the way up to Murdoch. In the States at the minute where the concept of punitive damages would totally screw them.

"You are a good friend of Kelvin MacKenzie, Mr Murdoch, you have rewarded him well, respected his views and given him carte-blanche to write any prejudiced thing he likes. Don't you share responsibility for what he has done?"

Up early to watch the match tomorrow in an Irish bar. COYB.

This is not a matter of press freedom or censorship. It is a matter of us deciding what we are prepared to accept at our club and how much self-respect we want to retain. As I understand it, this is about whether Sun journalists are allowed to come to the ground and to press conferences etc.

We are not requiring anyone else to follow suit, or at least I'm not, but we are saying to those who choose to regard us (and want others to regard us) as drug-taking, dim prole low-lifes living in a scrapyard: "Fuck off – and please don't come to tea, as though nothing has happened".

As I began on here, just don't friggin buy it. I doubt any Blues who did will do so now anyway.

Who is advocating turning our backs tomorrow at 3:06?

That suggestion is plums.

This is about our club saying you've rubbished the city and now us for too long. We can have who we want or not at USM Finch Farm or Goodison Park and we don't want you. That's it.

As for the turning your back thing, I'm thinking there will be many who will, as it's one very clear demonstration of feelings, but we must respect those who choose not to.

Stop turning this into something it ain't.

Ban them.

People here talking about freedom of the press: yes, I agree 100% with that, but that rag is 'not' a newspaper, it's a gossip mag, for celeb tittle-tattle, with an extreme right wing agenda.

It has forfeited its right to be welcomed at any Merseyside football club due to its lies, vicious comments and hatred of our people... If anybody thinks these vile creatures have the right to set foot on Everton property after mocking us, then I suggest you think again.

I'm sure we can all think of some of the mentors that could chaperone him through his experience, from inside our club and from Liverpool Football Club and those that lost family and friends at Hillsborough too.

Day 1 would belong to Ross Barkley, I'll leave the rest to your imagination.

I'm sure he would screw his nose at it, go through the motions and probably disrupt the process as much as possible.

But – given the people, stories, places and passions he would undoubtedly meet he could be shown the way.

And if not – then it's his soul that's damned, not ours.

It's Easter – give him the chance and see what he says.

He might learn to love the place.

After the carry-on over Hillsborough, their people shouldn't be allowed to enter the city.

I don't think that rag can offend me. I hope Ross feels the same way. Can you be offended by the utterings of someone you have no respect for?

Just stop them coming in. They serve no purpose. No reason for wanting to engage with them. Don't even announce it, just take away their accreditation on the grounds that they aren't considered to be journalists.

The "Paper" itself has suspended MacKenzie, whether by choice or force of outside opinion, or who-knows-what.

I have to say, as one or two others have alluded to, there are often deeper machinations at work. I won't expand further than to say I find it strange that MacKenzies's piece was enabled by the unfortunate bar incident, and yet "slipped through" the editorial process, right before this particular weekend. Perhaps some might see other angles, too.

The last thing I'd like to see is any of the reactions of ourselves, the club, and in particular, Ross Barkley, mixed as ingredients into some vile cauldron of ongoing media and political gruel. Our reactions now, and any taken by the club, will just continue to build the story.

Also, Ross Barkley doesn't need any of this kind of pressure. I say, act later at Goodison as if nothing happened. I doubt MacKenzie's words can hurt him but a protracted fall-out might make him very uncomfortable in the spotlight.

As to the rag – why even ban it? I trust no-one would even think of taking a copy off the stand, even if free. Even those that may still read it elsewhere. Let it die right within and around the ground, around Liverpool. Every copy returned, always.

However it appears that the majority of people are happy to read these rags and quote them when discussing current affairs. Not a coincidence that most bigoted, racist Neanderthal scum are all ardent readers, these are the same people who have fell for the lie that immigrants and refugees are to blame for everything such as the failing NHS and health care services rather than the Tories attack on the poor.

The type of people who call you a snowflake if you have the slightest bit of empathy for your fellow human being instead of showing hate and vitriol.

Beyond parody? I'd fucking love to prepare Barkley's response for him and put that theory to the test.

Meanwhile, the meffy rag itself chose to roll with the cop -out that "Columnists are supposed to have strong opinions that provoke debate among the readers."

Strong opinions? 'Ross Barkley resembles a monkey and is too thick to learn from his mistakes', claims the bloke without a racist bone in his body who previously said of 'performance' poet Benjamin Zephaniah: "He is black. He is a Rastafarian, He has tasted approved schools and Borstals... is this really the kind of man parents would wish to have teaching their sons and daughters?" Yeah, the fuckwittery is well and truly strong with this one.

Fortunately 'freedom of speech' does not equate to freedom from ever being called out on, or reaping the consequences of, the rancid crap you choose to spout.

Staggering.

A Labour Politician wants a paper that has recently openly supported the Tories banned.

As I said. His opinion is irrelevant.

We have always taken great pride, regardless of what we think of Blue Bill, of the fact that he has in the past outshone anyone in his gestures of support for worthwhile causes, sometimes taking the lead. Recently I can think of Hillsborough, young Bradley up in Sunderland, and Rhys Jones... yet here we are and the spotlight is on one of our own and ourselves and there seems a deathly hush.

Sometimes our Club can be so brilliant and then sometimes it can be fucking awful.

Now, off to the game thread

There'll be an awful lot of people on here who would love you to get that job too, John.

Ashton is a good guy, btw. Should've stayed at the Daily Mail.

Even if Ross scores a double hat-trick today, he won't be mentioned tomorrow!

I cannot for the life of me even in a free country understand why anyone would read this grubby paper. If morons didn't buy it, then it would not survive.

So now this manipulative arsewipe (the editor – not Mackenzie – he's an expendable anyway – just the nozzle through which the poison passes) has tried to declare war on a city. It just happens to be one which has by majority always been politically opposite to its own position.

What's the best way to start a feud with a family? Pick on one of the kids, especially one who's just had a bit of a hard time, and then spread slur onto the whole family. This was not a mistake by a rogue columnist. It was a clearly thought-out provocative strategy which came from the top of the shitpile.

However, I'm sorry, I'm with Voltaire:

'I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.' (Except I wouldn't break a nail to defend MacKenzie.)

That is boycott it, protest against it, don't invite their journalists (maybe) but don't ban free speech or you are in league with Trump, Putin, Erdogan, dictatorships, religious conservatives and ISIS etc.

Who fucking cares though. A huddle of clueless old hacks jabbering shit round a half-eaten breakfast. I'm amazed anyone tunes in.

As for freedom of the press, I think I'm with Mick Davies (#173). There are only so many times someone should be allowed to insult someone before turning the other cheek isn't enough and they should be told where to go.

So the dickhead is now suspended. But what about the editor who let this through. Suspending MacKenzie is Just a smoke screen to try and appease the public.

I thought this thread was going to get too political, but it never, and I've learnt off it. I never answered one of your earlier posts Eugene, because unless I'm talking to a child, I just don't do hypothetical. But your post at #145, made me think how strongly quite a lot of people feel about this newspaper, and when you read what Ste (#137) says about supposedly educated people, then perhaps it's time it was totally banished.

I say I don't do hypothetical, but then I think about the policeman who opened the gate at Hillsborough quite often. I could see that both those middle pens were overcrowded just after 2:35pm on that fateful day, so why didn't he have a line of policemen blocking the entrance to those two central pens when he made his decision to open the gates?

The past is the past, and it cannot be changed, but I now realise that this was the newspaper that peddled the lies for the Thatcher Government, to protect The South Yorkshire Police (and taht is were my own contempt will always lie, forever) then my vote will now be a Yes. But please don't turn our backs from the pitch at 3:06 pm today because I couldn't think of anything more disrespectful on the anniversary of Hillsborough.

Ed, you asked for those who voted no to explain why, I've explained why. I repeat The Sun is a tiny piece of the media that will continue to be ignored by me and most people will make their own minds up, it stinks but it will continue to stink while making their stories up trying to arouse people's feelings. They will not arouse mine I'm well wise to them. Ed thanks for reading my reply and answering it.

A fine post there. You're correct this newspaper is a tentacle of a machine that does its best to keep the working class downtrodden. They hate this city with a passion because we won't have it. Too rebellious for their liking.

We as a class are supposed to eat the shit they serve on a regular basis to keep their tax cuts going. When there's a shortfall where do they make the difference up? Increase the higher earners tax levels (without leaving the loopholes to surmount)? Do they fuck. They cut benefits, they cut the NHS budget, and their old favourites punish single mothers etc.

"What's that, you are severely disabled? Can you pick a telephone up? If so we will look at your benefits. In our opinion you are capable to work."

They create institutions like the Economic League to stop any worker who stands up for the workforce from getting a job.

They had a policy of managed decline for this city. It didn't work. They hate our city with a passion. Well one message to all of them. Fuck you. We are still here and here we will remain.

Illegitimi non caborrundum

The ban suggested is not a ban on having the paper inside Finch Farm/Goodison, it is a ban on employees of the Sun inside Finch Farm/Goodison (eg: press conferences).

Bobby Mallon # 180 - 'Ed Fitzgerald – how long did it take the RedShite to ban The Sun?'

More pointless deflection that shines a light only on you (and your inability to debate beyond the level of a 10 year old).

For you (and anyone else) gleefully pointing out how long it took Liverpool FC to ban the Sun, see if you can get your brains to process the following.

Because dumb/horrible shit, like bear-baiting or feeding Christians to Lions or Prog Rock existed in the past, it doesn't mean they have to (or should) exist in the future.

It's that simple.

Should Liverpool have banned the Sun in 1989?

Of course...but they've done it now and that is the important thing.

(and so should we).

Anthony Jones - '#145. Calm down. You are hysterical. A Labour Politician wants a paper that has recently openly supported the Tories banned. As I said. His opinion is irrelevant.'

Oh dear, the lamest of lame, the Michael Winner/David Cameron response.

Can't debate the points made?

'Calm down!"

Can't deal with detail?

'You're hysterical'

I await 'You think your so clever' and 'you think you're better than everyone else' (or anything else that helps you avoid having to form a sensible argument).

I repeat - 'Joe Anderson (whether you like it or not) is also an Evertonian and his reaction today is simply the opinion of a fair-minded member of the human race (nb: not a perfect member or a faultless member, just a... fair-minded member). The easiest thing for him to have done would be to have said fuck-all and been 'a politician' – turn up at Goodison, enjoy the hospitality, stay out of the firing line. That he didn't is (imo) to his credit.'

If you think the specifics of that are questionable or wrong or flawed, I'm listening.

If the best you can do is 'calm down', you should be aware that this response only makes one of us look at twat. Clue: Link

It makes me proud the way our people respond to support fellow working class. Look at the support we continuously give.

If you get a chance go and have a few pints in The Casa. Take in the history and feel the emotion of your chest bursting with pride.

You may only have been a kid but you noticed. That shows the upbringing your dad, and mine, gave you and me.

This is why I say that if The Sun is banned, then the whole parent organisation, whose culture is the underlying cause of what The Sun does, should be banned. The entire edifice, or nothing.

Some might counter that it isn't practical to ban the entire organisation, because of the money involved with Sky. In response to that, I'd say that if money talks like that (which no doubt it will to a lot of people), then there's no point in moral posturing about The Sun. In this sense, banning The Sun is focusing on an effect of a root cause. But the root cause itself needs to be tackled. All or nothing. In my opinion, it's bullshit otherwise.

I defend free speech even when it means reading vile shit. When the law is actually broken (as here) the police should take action.

Of course I vote with my money and don't buy this crap but ban them from our club? No. Unfortunately, ensuring that we have a free press means that as well as enabling people to challenge the establishment... we enable people to express views that are mentally challenged.

Getting back to the subject of this thread, I do think that people should have the right to choose which newspaper they read, what is worrying is that so many choose to read The Sun and The Mail and actually believe what they put in print is true.

I have long stopped caring about what people think of Liverpool. There are far too many small minded, bigoted people in the world to start thinking about it.

The paper and its reporters shouldn't be allowed anywhere near our club for obvious reasons.

Ross seems to be one of those players that the media are quite happy to put the boot in at every opportunity. I fully expect it to get brushed under the carpet and the media to close ranks and not make too much of it.

Let's hope he has a blinder today.

COYB

For those questioning why it took Liverpool so long to ban tThe Sun, perhaps, it was to do with the closure of the public enquiry when the full extent of cover up, lies and deception became apparent. Of course Sky can't be banned as all clubs are in a contract with them via the Premier League.

Gestures of support are important and I can't understand why Everton won't support the families of the 96 by banning The Sun.

Today of all days it's time to unite against the vile lies that were told about our fellow citizens and our City as yesterday proves it's still happening.

39,000 people today at Goodison have the opportunity to make their voices heard and ironically it will be televised by Murdoch's boys and go all over the world. Now that's what I call free speech.

As for banning the whole organisation (Sky)... Well we would be sued out of existence. The TV contracts for matches, news conferences, interviews, advertising etc are all part of the price you pay to be on the gravy train of the Premier League.

Even when Catterick banned the cameras in the 60s, we had to pay compensation to the away teams. It can't be done now.

Stock up with the sore throat sprays/lozenges and shout yourself hoarse today for Everton, the 96, for Ross and for the whole city.

I've never done it before but it felt a little cathartic to vent my spleen to an organisation that might actually have a minute chance of silencing this narrow minded bigot. A small chance is better than none.

And to me, banning this distasteful paper from our club doesn't seem an affront to freedom of speech (as individuals are still free to buy it) – but it would radically improve the match day atmosphere from my point of view.

Each to their own.

I guess I view it quite simply. Someone has incessantly insulted you, your family and your home for year upon year – and yet you continue to invite them over?! No. Not for me.

Eventually there have to be ramifications. Ban them.

And if, after time, there are guarantees given – then look at re-introducing them on a match-by-match basis.

Leaving aside the needless slur against Liverpudlians in general, why the attack on a young man who (without knowing exactly what went on in that bar) doesn't appear to have done a lot wrong?

And as for the rag being "unaware of his heritage"... bollocks. A simple Wikipedia search would have revealed it, that's how I knew and I've known it for some time. Inexcusable.

It took them a while to get there but finally the Club have done the right thing and banned these twats.

I don't think The Sun reporters know how to research anything.

Spot on.

Others have also stated the link between MacKenzie, the rag and Murdoch. Earlier I pointed out that this government have allowed Ofcom to take public opinion on whether or not Murdoch is "a fit and proper person" to massively increase his media influence in the UK by acquiring 100% of Sky. The decision's coming in May.

They say they will be swayed by public opposition so, if you think MacKenzie, the rag and Murdoch are a cancer in our midst, just sign in and protest. It's simple and quick.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/consultations-and-statements/category-3/public-interest-test-sky-fox

Freedom of speech. With freedom comes responsibility. The two are not inseparable.

Coincidence?

I followed the link but the deadline was 30th March.

Well done EFC all the same.

Full support for Ross today as always. The man had had a very, very tough week.

Regarding existing contractual obligations with Sky, in view of the root causes of the problems with The Sun (i.e. the culture of the Murdoch empire including Sky), a far more substantial move from EFC, LFC and other clubs would be to issue a statement to the effect that when the existing contractual obligations expire, there will not be any new contracts with Sky.

Now, that would be a REAL statement, one that does not kow-tow to the power of big money.

So the Mayor of the city, an elected politician, is irrelevant? You must have a better philosophy than the rest of us, so please let's hear this revolutionary new political idea...

Well done, Everton; a dignified statement.

As for those talking about free speech, do you agree with the people who stopped the EDL from marching in Liverpool? Do you agree with the historical attacks by decent working people in London's East End who attacked Moseley's fascists?

There is no such thing as free speech: the media is controlled by the establishment, so tell me, where is the national newspaper that attacks the people in the Home Counties stockbroker belt, or the city of London and its thieving bankers? There isn't one, so why defend a daily celebrity rag that attacks the people of our city without any national right to reply?

Also, just watched SSN debating Ross, mentioning his trouble in town, but NO MENTION of that despicable racist slur on him. That's free speech for you – well done EFC for banning these overpaid (drug dealers?) excuses for journalists from our beloved club and its environs.

To those who point to freedom of the press as an argument for not banning, I would say that freedom of anything, including the press, is subject to constraints, like legal constraints and moral constraints that put limits on what is acceptable.

It is clear, from repeated events and the Levenson Inquiry, that too many activities of the Murdoch empire are not just unacceptable but intolerable. That is, they cannot be tolerated at any cost.

This is what they do. Manipulate people's minds away from real issues by spoonfeeding them stories comparing footballers with apes. As an example.

Myself, I think Ross has to maintain a dignified silence and do it on the pitch, just like the young Wayne Rooney did when those lazy, cynical right-wing London journalists tried to destroy his career before it had even really started.

Problem for them was, Wazza was just too good. You are too, Ross. Go out there and show those bastards, make us all proud.

Folks, free speech is for the birds. None of us can walk around calling someone the bile that he called Ross or we would be arrested. Let's see free speech at work in that rag of a paper and see if they print the comments of the decent folk of Liverpool in regard to Mr MacKenzie.

Don't hold your breath though, folks. It won't happen.

The truth is that what he said was cleared first by the Sun and its lawyers.

Just had this link sent to me. An absolute disgrace, hypocrisy of the highest levels the way they taint people unfortunate enough to be on benefits.

How Dave's chums are lining their porky pockets: This devastating investigation reveals how Cameron's No 10 mates have been enriching themselves by drawing on knowledge and contacts in power.

Basically as long as we are generally dumb enough to allow ourselves to be easily (willingly?) divided, the elite have nothing to fear.

As long as there are enough idiots (and there are!) to readily swallow a daily Murdoch/Rothermere drip-drip diet of "Scousers are robbers" or "Immigrants are cockroaches" or "Glaswegians are drunks" or "The Royals are lovely" or "Theresa May is a Christian" or whatever dumb bollocks will distract the majority from critical thinking and being able to see what is actually happening around them, nothing will change.

Depressing... but there it is.

Just watched that clip and it speaks the truth. Do we have anybody in this country doing the same job as George? Can't think of anyone offhand.

Used to be protest singers once upon a time but now we get Simon Cowell.

Link

Divide and conquer.
It's their golden rule.

I believe that people are tiring of the cartoon existence which is fed to them daily, and of the empty capitalist malice peddled by the Murdoch, and many other, empires. Education, as always, is the key; defeating the poverty of expectation and recovering skill and craft.

I think that, despite what the media try to say, advances in information technology is a bigger threat to the powerful who are dodgy than it is to ordinary folks. The lot of ordinary people improves, and it becomes more difficult for the powerful to divide and conquer despite the inherent tendency for people to be divided and conquered.

Still very bad things happening, to be sure, but on the whole, the balance sheet of good versus bad improves. In the case of The Sun, the open analysis and criticism of it, and more widely the Murdoch empire, is enabled, and very rapid, because of this technology we have.

Gradually, slowly, people are starting to see.

Every time a new "President" of the US is elected, I always remember what Bill Hicks said. After the fanfare, the new incumbent is led into a dark room by the security services, and shown a film of the Kennedy assassination, after which one turns to him and says:

"Any questions?"

Selling newspapers is a business. A company is a legal personality for an individual, or individuals. Using the term 'vile' is rather biased, too. 'Said to be vile', 'perceived to be vile', 'considered by many to be vile' is appropriate if you have a personal opinion that Sun is vile or you wish you represent the views who consider said newspaper to be vile. It has been nearly 30 years for heaven's sake.

German companies were likely involved one way or another in the holocaust. Who controlled the train's time tables. Which systems controlled the numbers and other things.