Moyes takes Sunderland down

Saturday 29 April 2017  117 Comments  [Jump to last]

David Moyes brings to an end 10 years in the Premier League for the Black Cats as his Sunderland side lose 1-0 to Bournemouth at the Stadium of Light.

Moyes said soon after his appointment back in August that Sunderland would be in a relegation battle this season, and recruiting players from Everton, like Pienaar, Gibson and Oviedo did not do enough to change the seemingly inevitable drop, for the fourth time in their history.

An incredible 18 games this season without scoring a goal is a stunning statistic, as the follow the other northeastern side Newcastle, who were relegated last season.

Their relegation rivals, Hull City, scraped a draw at Southampton after hitting the post with a free kick, Oumar Niasse missing their best chance to score with a poor first touch, and giving up a penalty that was brilliantly saved by their keeper.

 

Reader Comments (117)

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Kunal Desai
2 Posted 29/04/2017 at 17:30:52
He shot himself in the foot when he had a cushy number with Bill at the helm and decided to jump ship. Ever since then its been downhill for him.

Dour and miserable fella. At best he'll get another job in the Championship. Maybe Preston will come calling.

Martin Nicholls
3 Posted 29/04/2017 at 17:38:02
Not bothered about Moyes but sorry to see Sunderland go - good club, real fans and I always enjoy trips up there. Hope they bounce back but can't see it with the "old boys squad" that OFM has assembled. They'll also lose Pickford and probably Defoe. Sad times for the Mackems. And spare a thought for little Bradley.
Garry Corgan
4 Posted 29/04/2017 at 17:47:05
I've been no fan of David Moyes since his "bigger, better things" comment and admission that he'd take the job at Liverpool if it was offered, but I've got some sympathy with him at Sunderland.

Clearly Sunderland were a sinking ship from the beginning and they have by far the worst squad of players in the league. The Sunderland fans didn't take too kindly to Moyes saying they were in a relegation fight after the second game, although it was obvious to any neutral that they weren't good enough to be anywhere else this season. They've been on Moyes's back since the beginning and haven't helped their own situation.

The hierarchy and players at Sunderland are just as responsible for their mess as Moyes. I've no doubt they'll dispense with his services now but I can't help thinking their constant chopping and changing and subsequent instability hasn't helped. Perhaps they should consider keeping him on next season to get rid of their dead wood and rebuild things from the ground-up.

Ian Bennett
5 Posted 29/04/2017 at 17:59:35
It's always downhill after Goodison Park……
Paul Tran
6 Posted 29/04/2017 at 18:01:49
Sneaky pounce for Defoe?
Steve Bingham
7 Posted 29/04/2017 at 18:06:46
As Evertonians, we have a lot to be grateful to Mr Moyes for as, when he became our manager, he was able to steady the ship and consistently made us a football challenge to most on absolutely no money whatsoever.

However, it would seem that in these huge money oriented footballing times his level is being now found out. I hope he stays on at Sunderland and is given the opportunity to start again from scratch and build them up from a good foundation as he did with us .

Kunal Desai
8 Posted 29/04/2017 at 18:07:05
Good shout, Paul. I think he could do a job for us for a season. Sadly I think he'll be heading back to London.
Dan Egerton
9 Posted 29/04/2017 at 18:07:58
Grass is always... redder.
Darren Hind
10 Posted 29/04/2017 at 18:13:55
Not the worst idea I have heard, Paul T. There will always be goals in him, but would he come as back-up?
Mark Rankin
11 Posted 29/04/2017 at 18:21:56
At least at Everton he had a knife to take to the gunfight; at Sunderland it was more like a cucumber and a pair of clown shoes, then he signed some lemons.
Kev Johnson
12 Posted 29/04/2017 at 18:25:37
Feel sorry for little Bradley and Sunderland fans. I like them as a club. But I think Moysey is washed up in the Premier League now. Interesting what happens next with him...
Jimmy Salt
13 Posted 29/04/2017 at 18:26:59
I think we should go in for Moyes. He's had a run of bad luck, yes, but he knows our club inside out, a true blue at heart.

Koeman just doesn't get us – always talking in the third sense about us. And I think he is tactically flawed. I dread next season when he has wasted even more of our money on players like Williams.

Sam Hoare
14 Posted 29/04/2017 at 18:30:56
To think a lot of us (me included) wanted Lamine Kone last Summer!

Not sure I'd take anyone from that squad bar Defoe for a year or two... and at a stretch, Pickford, though I'm not convinced by him yet.

Ed Fitzgerald
15 Posted 29/04/2017 at 18:32:08
I've always had a soft spot for Sunderland ever since watching the cup final when they beat Leeds in 1973 and watching Bob Stokoe celebrating afterwards. They have loyal fans who have had to put with some shite over the years.

I recall us putting them down... might have been in 1976 and Rioch scoring for us on a really sunny evening in May; they brought thousands and never stopped supporting them until the final whistle.

Of course I will also be sorry to see them go as they are normally a banker win for us.

Err... David Moyes? Why would I feel sorry for him? A millionaire who may lose his job??

Kevin Rowlands
16 Posted 29/04/2017 at 18:34:07
I'd say his reputation is as low as it's ever been at this point; I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see him in management again.

Ian (#5), spot on. Bar Rooney, I can't think of too many that have gone on to bigger and better things after leaving Everton. Take note, Lukaku and Barkley.

Terry White
17 Posted 29/04/2017 at 18:34:17
What is the third "sense", Jimmy (#13), in which Koeman speaks?

Apart from that, I can only hope you are writing with tongue in cheek – otherwise, I despair.

Paul Ferry
18 Posted 29/04/2017 at 18:36:45
Nice bit of wumming Jimmy Salt (13). Don't bite anyone.

I too have a soft spot for Sunderland and their fans. A spot that has got much softer with Bradley.

I have no sympathy at all for Moyes. Not a day goes by when he does not think that I should have stayed at Everton but Moshiri would have got rid. His 'I'm at a big club now' performance made me sick and tells me all I need to know about Moyes.

Defoe! Really!

Ed Fitzgerald
19 Posted 29/04/2017 at 18:36:48
Jimmy @13

Have you been on the ale this afternoon?

BTW, it was 1977 when we beat them 2-0 and Rioch did score. The Alzheimer's not totally taken hold.

Pete Edwards
20 Posted 29/04/2017 at 18:39:51
Jimmy... fuck me, really!!!!
Laura Round
21 Posted 29/04/2017 at 18:44:48
Sunderland was mine and my son's first fixture at Goodison so I promised it would be our special game every season, just us. Yes from me for Defoe.
Merle Urquart
22 Posted 29/04/2017 at 18:44:52
lan Bennett,

bang on!

Steve Woods
23 Posted 29/04/2017 at 18:50:17
Thanks, Mark Rankin (#11), I just sprayed a mouthful of beer over my keyboard at your comment, still LOL.

Just off to find some wet wipes!!

Kieran Kinsella
24 Posted 29/04/2017 at 18:52:18
Miserable git bound to fail. When you're struggling you need a lift, not someone who says you're going to get relegated on Day One.

Moyes is very limited. He seems able to turn mid table teams into top 5/6 (Everton, Preston) but that's it. At a seriously struggling team he's the worst choice.

Remember the year we sleep walked to less than 40 pts while he banged on about knives and we were just lucky there were 3 even worse teams below us. If you told Moyes you had the flu, he'd show up at your house in a black suit with a wreath. That's the attitude he had at Sunderland.

Yes the club is rotten and many managers have struggled. But Moyes was the only captain to declare the Titanic would hit an iceberg before it even left port.

Peter Hughes
25 Posted 29/04/2017 at 18:52:32
Jimmy, lay off the waccy baccy lad!
Colin Glassar
26 Posted 29/04/2017 at 18:58:57
He's finished as a manager and I have no sympathy at all for him. He'll probably end up as a TV pundit or manager of St Mirren.

And Jimmy Salt, as for talking in the third person, ginger only said the other day, "David Moyes doesn't do relegation" or something to that effect.

Brian Williams
28 Posted 29/04/2017 at 19:12:52
Jimmy (#13).

Haha, nice one, quality!

Brent Stephens
29 Posted 29/04/2017 at 19:15:56
Not arsed either way. Koeman in!
Phil Bellis
31 Posted 29/04/2017 at 19:37:43
C'mon people... don't bite.

Take that post with a rather large pinch of Jimmy...

Had me chuckling; comedy gold!

Colin Glassar
32 Posted 29/04/2017 at 19:38:21
That's a good point Kieran, maybe he'd make a good undertaker or funeral parlour manager.
Ste Traverse
33 Posted 29/04/2017 at 19:50:36
I and many others won't ever forgive Mr Misery for his 'moving on to bigger and better things' remark when he was going to United and for the utter disrespect shown during the Baines and Fellaini fiasco when he tried to be Billy Big Time towards us just months after leaving.

I'm sure his supporters will soon trot out the 'short memories' cliche because he did a decent job here but it certainly doesn't wash with me.

The arrogant twat breezed into Sunderland last year declaring himself a 'Champions League level manager' as if he was somehow doing them a favour when it was obvious it was false bravado and his confidence was shot to bits after his experiences at his two previous jobs.

He's never kicked on as a manager, still only has one way of playing and goes around signing his former players as he seems to lack confidence in his own judgement when it comes to signing new recruits.

He's a busted flush and finished as a Premier League boss and I, for one, have no sympathy for him, and having had a nose at a few Sunderland forums, their fans absolutely hate him.

Nearly four years after his infamous 'moving on to bigger and better things' soundbite he now finds himself in the Championship, or even worse, on the dole.

Danny Broderick
34 Posted 29/04/2017 at 19:51:13
I don't take any pleasure in this. Moyes did okay for us while he was here. He has had a disastrous time since though. I don't see him bringing them back up though, because he has never really been that successful when it comes to winning things. I'm just glad we have got Koeman.
Gavin Johnson
35 Posted 29/04/2017 at 19:57:53
Garry (#4), I never knew Moyes said he'd take the RS job. What an arsehole!!

Paul (#6), I think Defoe would be a decent signing if he'd take a 12 month rolling contract. As Koeman said the other day. We need some more goal scorers in the team and Defoe would be a lot more useful than blowing 㾶m on Valencia IMO.

Chris Williams
36 Posted 29/04/2017 at 20:24:55
The peak of Moyes's career was always going to be Everton. He was a good manager in the first 4/5 years. Then he got a big rise, had Boys Pen Bill blowing smoke up his arse, and believing his own publicity.

He talked Everton down, and by definition himself up, and had some smashing players who should have done better collectively, if they'd had a decent manager.

The last half of his time at Everton became increasingly poor and turgid, as his ego took over.

I don't wish him ill, but if ever you want to know what 'hubris' means, look no further than Moyes.

Mike Hughes
37 Posted 29/04/2017 at 20:27:42
I posted on here at the time Moyes left that his career had already peaked – and it was all downhill from there. (I posted the same re: Mr Snake Oil and still can't believe he spawned the Belgium job.)

That does not make me Nostradamus because it was pretty obvious from Moyes's time with us. He stabilised us and moved us on to the fringes of 'the best of the rest' – and for this he did a good job.

But it got stale after that. He lacked the ambition / nous / savvy to move us on. He had revealed his own shortcomings in the last third of his tenure here.

I was surprised Man Utd appointed him as, while an organiser, he was far from being either inspirational or a big character.

I thought he looked shot as a manager in Spain – and the Sunderland job, while (thankless – not sure that's the right word?) in Premier League management terms – proved beyond him.

I don't dislike the man like some on here though, at the same time, I won't lose any sleep either.

There can be no role for him at EFC ever following his comments on leaving. Just the suggestion of that possibility (above) is completely ludicrous.

He shat on any legacy he had with the Mighty Blues.

But let's not entirely forget the state we were in during the decade preceding his arrival. (Those Wimbledon and Coventry games still send shivers...)

Andrew Presly
38 Posted 29/04/2017 at 20:57:03
Sporting Lisbon away was it for me.

Moribund manager.

Tony Abrahams
39 Posted 29/04/2017 at 21:17:49
Sad day for a proper football club, but no sympathy whatsoever for our former manager, simply because of the way he disrespected 36,000 Evertonians so soon after he left the club that had treated him so well.

I always think that, when somebody believes that they are so much better than they actually are, then the fall is usually massive, because this type of person just doesn't deserve any sympathy. His ego will be damaged, but his bank balance won't be. I wonder if he'll take a 15% pay cut, just to give a little back!

Paul Hewitt
40 Posted 29/04/2017 at 21:18:09
Moyes isn't the best manager we ever had, but I think what he did for us in the years he was here shouldn't be forgotten.
Phil Parker
41 Posted 29/04/2017 at 21:22:40
Ever since Moyes thought he could keep Lescott from going to the new Man City – why would you want to leave us, Joleon? Er, treble the wages, compete for trophies every year, always signing top players on top wages... leading to the carnage of a 6-1 first day defeat to Arsenal – I have thought Moyes to be not very bright. He has been proving me right ever since.

Sitting in the crowd at the Tony Bellow boxing night at Goodison, thinking he could come back and manage us, really took the biscuit. Sorry for Sunderland, but if I never see Moyes again, it will be too soon.

Rob Dolby
42 Posted 29/04/2017 at 21:35:31
The worst thing that happened to the Mackems was Big Sam getting the England job. From Week 1, Moyes predicted a relegation fight and not at any point did his team show any fight.

Signing Pienaar, big Vic and Gibson showed the limitations that he was working under. For him to get any credibility back, he needs to get them promoted.

Kieran Kinsella
43 Posted 29/04/2017 at 21:44:14
Chris/Mike

Moyes peak really came when Irvine was his asst. He left and was replaced by Stevie boy who in Moyesian fashion said "next year we are aiming for the top SIX" when we had just finished in the top FIVE. I wonder if Irvine was the magic ingredient. I know he didn't fare well as a manager but maybe his role as coach was critical a la Colin Harvey to HK.

Like many I do have sympathy for Sunderland fans. Long suffering, dedicated but I've none for Moyes. In his mind, he probably imagines he's in the frame for the Arsenal job whereas he's actually better suited to an ass clown job.

Kieran Kinsella
44 Posted 29/04/2017 at 21:48:24
Rob

Makes you wonder about his relegation "prediction". Was he tipping off his Scottish mates to have a flutter? The BBC are reporting that betting is rife in Scottish football. We know Moyes likes a flutter on boxing, so why not football like his mate and Sunderland nemesis Joey Barton?

John Daley
45 Posted 29/04/2017 at 21:49:09
"I think we should go in for Moyes. He's had a run of bad luck"

Ah floated they idea oan that thair Tofuweb. Small seeds, ken? Just tae see hoo receptive they vegetarian radges might be tae ay return for the Moyesiah.

Ah'm telling ya Roondy, ye widnae believe some ay the coaments ah goat in reply! Nay rayspect whatsoever fae they man who put that wee club oan the map.

People's Club! 'Member that one, eh? Eh? EH?!? That was awl me that!!

Ungrateful goabshites they loat ay them. Fookin looky none ay them were lasses, otherwise I woulda threatened tae hoof theim awl in the fanny. Just fae a joke like! Wisnae being serious aboot it! Señor David Moyes disnae disrayspect they minge. He's goat they utmost admirayshin fae lasses, even theim ones no even the slightest bit sexy, like that big Bingo wifie who won 'Britains Goat Ay Bit Ay Talent' back when young buck David Moyes was busy performing one ay they greatest miracles they world has evah seen, by beating mighty Man United in a square-go penalty shoot oot at Wembley and sending a massive pack ay short-memory, small-time, wee club supporting wankers, intae a fooking FA Cup Final.

Fawgot awl aboot that one didn't ya, yer disrespectful pack ay doss Jim Delahunt's?

Brian Denton
46 Posted 29/04/2017 at 22:09:02
Sorry, John. Eugene's iconic 'Moyes on Holiday' from five years ago sets the Gold Standard:

Fuck me, I can just picture the Moyes family hols.

Open on a Presbyterian church graveyard in Peebles.

The Moyes family sit on a bench

DM: "Nae doot aboot it Morag, there's nuthin' like a mornin's brass-rubbin' tae gi' a man an appetite"

(missus opens greaseproof-paper package)

Mrs "Sardine and tomato paste or cheese?"

DM: "Cheese ahhhh this is the life, look at that view! Seriously, whit would ye want tae go abroad fae, when ye have all this beauty on yer ain doorstep? (looks up) .looks like the rain is easin' a wee bit"

Wee Sandy: "Da, can a have a couple o' boab tae get masel a twix?"

DM: "TWIX!!? Get tae hell! Let me gi' ye some advice son 'never a borrower or a lender be' - Twix indeed!"

Mrs: "So whit's next on the itinerary fer the rest o' the day David?"

DM: (Jumping to his feet) "Brisk walk tae the top o' Ben Doon, back tae toon fer 5pm, early-bird discoont fish supper at McGrimms Caff, bed fer 7pm"

Wee Sandy: "Aww dad, we're on wah holidays!"

DM: "Well...ok, maybe we'll have a shandy in the Frown And Scowl..but don't be askin' fer crisps and the like coz I promise you now son, you'll be sorely disappointed"

Etc blah, continue for 2 weeks.

(and Steve, 584, he'll STILL take the factor 50, just to be .safe)

Liam Reilly
47 Posted 29/04/2017 at 22:19:56
I'm surprised he even deserves a thread on TW.

Completely disrespected the club and supporters when he left and the horseshit of pretending not to be aware of Man Utd's interest when failing to sign a contract.

Having meetings with Man Utd whilst still employed by Everton... and then finally Baines & Fellaini-gate.

To be honest, I couldn't give a toss about him, other than he stays far away from our football club.

Garry Corgan
48 Posted 29/04/2017 at 22:25:04
Gavin #35 - It was during a BBC interview on a chat show. He'd been asked about Everton and the interviewer asked cheekily asked if he'd ever manage Liverpool if asked. Moyes smiled for a second and then said something like "I'd better not answer that."
Phil Bellis
49 Posted 29/04/2017 at 22:25:31
Magic moments from one of Eugene's classic Greatest Hits album... as fer you, wee Jamie Salt, have yer nae sense? Or mebbe just some TWebbers could nae see or tek a joke..

(Hope the faux Scottish isn't derided as racist stereotyping)

In serious mode, Moyes was the reason I let my season ticket go.

Tom Bowers
50 Posted 29/04/2017 at 22:47:54
He's had so much bad luck. Ten years at Everton and no money to spend. One year at Man Utd and bags of money.

Useless at Sociedad and Sunderland....
Anyone not seeing how unlucky he is? He is just a pretender.

Dave Abrahams
51 Posted 29/04/2017 at 22:51:43
He didn't have the sense to refuse the Sunderland job, or maybe he just likes money.
Kieran Kinsella
52 Posted 29/04/2017 at 22:59:39
Brian,

Moyes family vacation sounds pretty believable. Only detail you forgot to mention is when he retires to his unseated counting house.

Ian McDowell
53 Posted 29/04/2017 at 23:02:05
Dave @ 51 spot on. "Always pick your jobs carefully" as Sir Alex would say. Had he said "No" to the basket case that is Sunderland, then Palace, Hull even Leicester may have been an option. Instead your career in the top flight is over, David.
Trevor Peers
54 Posted 29/04/2017 at 23:18:40
Anyone who hasn't got a soft spot for Moyes today after all he did for the blues, must have a heart of pure mahogany.

He shot his bolt keeping us in a respectable position in the Premier League for so long, working with Kenwright must of been pretty fooking awful.

Sure he's got megabucks, but so has Rodwell, Kone, Niasse and all the other mercenaries, for doing sod all.

Jimmy Salt
55 Posted 29/04/2017 at 23:19:02
Brian @28; Phil @31;

I honestly didn't think I'd put enough effort in.

Brian Williams
56 Posted 29/04/2017 at 23:29:32
Jimmy (#55),

Sometimes... less is better, mate!

Andy Crooks
57 Posted 29/04/2017 at 23:31:48
Everton was as good as it could get for Moyes. A chairman who set him the target of not being relegated and that was it. He stayed six years too long, lowered expectations and set the club back.

He was vastly paid and produced some awful stuff. There were signs of something special now and again but we played with fear too often.

Nigel Munford
58 Posted 29/04/2017 at 23:32:53
Liam I'm surprised there is one, this is an Everton forum not a Sunderland one.
Peter Laing
60 Posted 29/04/2017 at 23:54:47
Serial loser. Whenever it really mattered, you could guarantee that Moyes would always come up short.
Dean Adams
61 Posted 29/04/2017 at 23:59:24
Nice to see so much compassion for a man who has lost the best thing he ever had and then had so much bad luck ever since he departed.
Phil Bellis
62 Posted 30/04/2017 at 00:32:54
Credit, Jimmy... Hat duly doffed!
Kieran Kinsella
63 Posted 30/04/2017 at 01:00:27
Dean Adams

Compassion really? It's like saying a jilted wife should have compassion after her husband runs off with a playboy model, gets dumped, shacks up with a Spanish waitress, gets dumped again, then gets herpes from a $5 hooker.

Anto Byrne
64 Posted 30/04/2017 at 01:06:54
Hopefully he can keep his job build a team of young and up-and-coming players and start the rebuilding program at Sunderland, as he did at Everton, but he needs time.

Unfortunately he has a very negative disposition that never goes down well. If you don't have anything positive to say, don't say anything.

I watched the game and Bournemouth were the better side yet Sunderland had some great chances to win the game. Moyes looked a defeated man on the touchline. He did a good job for us but then outstayed his welcome.

Can he turn it around at Sunderland? He has to bring in a People's Club mentality and then he has to play without fear or just grow some.

Not my favorite football manager... but inside, the man has some talent; maybe the Championship will allow him to find his mojo. I have reservations though.

Jim Knightley
65 Posted 30/04/2017 at 03:32:17
Sunderland have been run terribly – a succession of managers brought badly (Keane was especially culpable) and they've got worse and worse in recent seasons. Moyes had nothing this season – Sunderland even let one of their best players go in January (PVA – still their second top scorer), which signified the chairman's intentions. Moyes' rhetoric about a lack of money to spend (half of the PVA fee was spent on Oviedo in the end and Gibson and Lescott arrived) was depressingly familiar and his readiness to turn to past it ex-Everton players stunk at a desperation produced by circumstances, rather than voluntarism.

This job was never going to end well. It's not like Big Sam taking over an under-performing Palace side – Moyes took over a side bereft of quality – a Championship-level team in truth without money or the faith of the owner.

For info purposes – since 2003 Sunderland have spent 𧷚,610,000 on players – and a 𧵃,110,000 net spend. Our net spend is 㿹,934,500 over that period. Moyes, during his tenure with us, oversaw a minimal net spend (around ٠mil per season) and improved us markedly. I wont hate him, like some do, because of that, and because he set the groundwork for our future. But he is at his lowest ebb now, and I cant see him coming back from this. That Sunderland team will struggle to bounce back – the squad is old, has so much deadwood, and the little quality left (Pickford, Kone, Ndong, and Defoe) will depart.

Mike Gaynes
66 Posted 30/04/2017 at 03:44:07
Jimmy (#55), it was elegant... low-key and believable enough that several of the TW fish bit on your hook like a trout. Well done.


Paul Ferry
68 Posted 30/04/2017 at 04:42:14
Dean Adams (#61) "Nice to see so much compassion for a man who has lost the best thing he ever had and then had so much bad luck ever since he departed."

Words fail me!

Why would any Evertonian show any 'compassion' for Moyes after his first summer away from us. This post beggars belief!!!!

And Jaysus 'so much bad luck since he departed'!!!!

This has to be a wind-up, surely?

Bad luck!!!!

Listen to 606 today.

Listen to Sociedad fans.

Listen to Man Utd fans.

The depths that people will plunge to sanitize Moyes!!

The question: Why????

Peter Barry
69 Posted 30/04/2017 at 05:02:52
Dire Dour Depressing Deceitful Defeatist Davey just living up to his reputation.
Andy Codling
70 Posted 30/04/2017 at 05:41:00
I never understood how this gobshite was left in charge for the remaining games after he announced he was leaving for Man Utd. He should have been told to clear his desk out and fuck off. Then to make things even more unbelievable he was afforded a guard of honour and hero's farewell at Goodison.

Big time bottler and cheeky twat. I'm glad his rep has gone down the pan and Sunderland fans deserve better than this charlatan.

Terry Riley
71 Posted 30/04/2017 at 06:05:41
I knew at the time we couldn't attract someone better than Moyes, his best years at the Blues were behind him. My problem with him was the lack of bottle he showed when playing the RedShite in his last year, compounded with the Man Utd deal from Xmas onwards. I would have driven him to Old Trafford and then run over him.
Andrew Clare
72 Posted 30/04/2017 at 07:30:48
Sunderland were doomed from the moment Moyes walked in the door.
Darren Hind
73 Posted 30/04/2017 at 07:57:28
In the decade or so Moyes was here we had a couple of bad seasons but let's not forget he inherited what many people believed to be Relegation Certainties.

In other seasons he finished 8th, 7th twice, 6th twice, 5th twice and we also broke into the top four. He also got us to semi-finals and a final.

The current manager has been dismissed from both cups at the first time of asking. Marcus Bent was not the best he could do, he inherited the Leagues top scorer... and yet if he gets to where TGT regularly got us, it will be considered huge improvement... Let's not forget Moyes's starting position.

Like many others I cannot forgive Moyes for the way he disrespected our club, nor can I forgive the way he dampened expectations, it would be disastrous move to bring him back, A huge step backwards. Thankfully it wont happen.

What I really can't get my head around is why the suggestion to bring him back should be mocked, but the suggestion of giving a man (who shows no signs of doing any better) two more years is greeted with such wide approval?

If Koeman ever did better than the man we are mocking and got us Champions League football, I would happily show my not inconsiderable rear end to all four sides of Goodison Park.

Kieran Fitzgerald
74 Posted 30/04/2017 at 08:13:09
A big yes to Defoe. Fourteen goals and two assists this season in the Premier League. I watched the second half of the Sunderland game yesterday and Defoe got even less service than Lukaku gets some games. He showed a lot more and kept moving. Seems to keep himself injury free and has a good attitude.

I read somewhere that he also has a get out clause in his contract if Sunderland get relegated so he has an even bigger say in what happens that most players. I can't see Chelsea or Man Utd coming in for him and Everton may be the highest of any clubs potentially in for him. What playing time he would be guaranteed is the issue though.

I think the vultures are going to start circling the club. Players and their agents are going to want to leave the club as soon as possible. It's a tournament summer at the end of next season as well.

Players like Defoe, Kone and Pickford, who have come out of this season with a modicum of credit, will want their futures settled as quickly as possible. As Everton had transfer dealings with Sunderland in January, we may be in a strong position to sign some of their better players.

Very cynical comment I know but I do think that our finances this summer will be dictated to by stadium costs. A relegated club's misery is our gain.

John Audsley
75 Posted 30/04/2017 at 09:06:20
When Howard Kendall took over Man City back in 1989-90 he took numerous ex-Everton players to Maine Road and it worked to a certain degree. I can remember being at Goodison Park for his return with City. He had Peter Reid and Alan Harper in the fold plus the dirty bastard Gary Megson.

It can work but Kendall was a world away from Moyes who has lost any self-belief he ever had. Moyes is finished; he was fine up until 2009 but had no clue in the big games and, with Kenwright constantly telling him how wonderful he was, never had any encouragement to push himself on.

Don't feel too sorry for him, the millions in the bank means he never has to meet and work with real people again.

Brent Stephens
76 Posted 30/04/2017 at 09:35:27
Kieran (#63), that's not a personal story is it?!
Dennis Stevens
77 Posted 30/04/2017 at 09:39:06
Defoe would be a much better signing than Rooney. He'd be able to form a strike partnership with Lukaku – or his successor.
Martin Nicholls
78 Posted 30/04/2017 at 09:58:25
Defoe hasn't scored in over 10 games. One Sunderland player who might be worth a punt is Duncan Watmore – currently injured and maybe therefore a bit under the radar of many clubs but a decent player from what I've seen.
Kevin Tully
79 Posted 30/04/2017 at 10:24:57
Moyes still spent over 㿊m this season and broke their transfer record. He also had a 20-goal-a-season striker – who he eventually broke like all the other No 9s he's asked to run the channels in his time.

His only remit at Everton was to keep us in the Premier League. A top-half finish was seen as winning the Cup for a chairman who owned the club under false pretences (it wasn't his money)

We had a top-half wage bill all the time he was here, so I don't get the deference of some. We also had some of our worst starts to a season under the miserable twat.

The fact he thinks he's doing Sunderland fans a favour staying when 90% want him gone shows how deluded he's become. Talking about himself in the third person like a latter day Fergie makes me cringe. Apart from that – decent fella.

ps: Surely he could have matched Bournemouth or Burnley?

Chris James
80 Posted 30/04/2017 at 10:44:30
We do have a lot to thank Moyes for over the last 15 years both during his time at Everton and after.

Whilst manager, he took us back from the brink where we were skirting with relegation most seasons to a solid, hard-to-beat top 7/8 side with a decent taste of European football.

With one of the lowest net spends in the division (at one point, even a net negative, I think) he increased the value of the squad, brought some truly great players as bargains (Cahill, Arteta, Pienaar, Jagielka, Baines, Coleman and Stones to name but a few), sold on players for decent amounts (Rooney, Rodwell and Lescott most notably) and also coined 'The People's Club' term which helped define our identity as an alternative to the moneybags sides elsewhere.

Whilst you might not like the circumstances, you could even argue that he went at the right time for us, at a point where he'd established a base but probably taken things as far as he could with his KITAPO approach.

More recently, he's helped our cause further. At Man Utd, acquiring Fellaini for 㿈M, allowing us a win at Old Trafford and playing a part in helping to dismantle Fergie's legacy and take the red Devils down a peg or two from definite top 4 finishers to top 7 challengers.

Then at Sunderland he's taken a couple of our squad, Gibson and Oviedo ,off the wage bill (to join the ex-Blues contingent with Anichebe, Rodwell and Pienaar) for a very respectable ٥M and given us 6 points.

All-in-all then, Moyes has indeed proved a true blue, regardless of where he's actually managing!

Paul Doyle
81 Posted 30/04/2017 at 11:41:06
No sympathy at all for Mr Charisma. Sunderland should have chased him out on Day One after his "We are in for a relegation struggle " speech. This was all part of his model, dumbing down expectations, "be grateful for what you have" mentality, so to speak, "glass half-empty" outlook on anything.

We made this miserable bastard a multi-millionaire and he still can't raise a smile. One arrogant, ungrateful talent-sucking vampire.

I hope, no I pray we never see his ginger twisted gob again and that his next job is managing a team in the Outer Hebrides where it's non-stop rainy climate should suit the miserable bastard.

Eugene Ruane
82 Posted 30/04/2017 at 12:07:28
The only thing I'd thank Moyes for is for fucking off out of Everton.

Look forward to his biography, 'Moyes Out!'

Up the Toffees!

Jim Harrison
83 Posted 30/04/2017 at 12:16:25
I too dislike the guy for his comments and actions, but to be fair, in his last season we actually played some great football, just not often enough.

He will get another job if he leaves Sunderland (maclaren does) but likely to be a team struggling. His days of looking for a top job are done. I don't think he moved with the game, seems to be still trying to do the same now as he did with us.

As a club we have moved on. Bigger and better. But it should be noted that Moyes put in place a lot of good things. Had Stones stayed out first choice back line would all be his signings (all in their own right have been very good signings for us). His transfer policy enabled us to out perform higher spending clubs. Look at Sunderland, spent far more and got no where but further in debt.

No pity for his plight. He is a grown man and has been very well paid

Jay Griffiths
85 Posted 30/04/2017 at 12:24:57
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Much_Land_Does_a_Man_Need%3F

Everton could be the Bashkirs.

The land needed is enough for Davey's managerial career.

Hubris was, rightly, mentioned before.

David Hallwood
86 Posted 30/04/2017 at 13:06:45
Weird innit. I remember getting laughed at (not on TW I might add) when I suggested that we should go in for him when he was on his way to the MLS and being totally ridiculed when I said that I'd always have him in the England squad because the man was born to score goals, and that's a precious commodity especially in international football.

IMHO the 'problem' he has is that his game is small man/big man partnership up front, at a time when lone strikers are the norm, but can you imagine if we had partnered him with Rom? still well worth a punt, and I think there will be a lot of Premier League clubs after his services.

Eddie Dunn
87 Posted 30/04/2017 at 13:22:18
Moyes served us well through some hard times and we avoided the kind of situation that poor Sunderland have had for the last few seasons.

I was sick of him by the end and his behind the scenes chummery with Old Whisky Nose was sickening. Karma has come around to bite him on the behind. Perhaps he should have known better that to take on the job.

To me he looks like a man who has burnt himself out. He aged so much with us but now he looks like an extra on the Walking Dead. He must be kicking himself that Brenda got the Celtic job.

Jeff Armstrong
88 Posted 30/04/2017 at 18:24:33
Everyone slagging off Moyes which is fair enough, problem is ,we've got Moyes Mk 2 as our current manager.

One-dimensional, dreadful away from home, crap in the cups, negative, square pegs etc..(Calvert-Lewinb was at left back at times today, still he's not good enough for up front either!) ... EVERYONE back for corners..

Koeman is the Emperor's new clothes, I'm afraid; we're back to best of the rest. So that's 10 years and still we're 7th!

Roman Sidey
89 Posted 30/04/2017 at 19:18:37
Martin Nicholls, totally agreed. Watmore is the only Sunderland player I'd accept Everton buying. Aside from him, the entire squad finished where they deserved. I'm not saying he'd be a great signing, but he'd be better than any of the rest of their squad.

How can people seriously say they'd want us to sign Defoe? Are we Stoke City? The guy is 34 going on 35, and has scored less than 10 goals from open play all season. Lukaku would be off to London before the ink was dry on Defoe's contract.

Clive Rogers
90 Posted 30/04/2017 at 20:41:46
Moyes has become an absolutely dreadful manager. At both Sociedad and Sunderland he has had record summer spends, and wasted the money on bad buys. He never did have a clue about attacking play. Every striker he signed stopped scoring. He should now bow out gracefully and retire.
Denis Richardson
91 Posted 30/04/2017 at 20:59:11
For those slagging off Koeman, last time I looked we were 7th in the league and 14 points clear of 8th. This after having finished 11th the last two seasons as well as being Koeman's first 10 months in charge – what exactly did you expect him to do in his first season here?

His main job this season was to improve the squad and get us up the league. He's achieved those two targets and hopefully can push on next season and also have a good stab at the Europa League.

We're bottom of the 'elite' league as opposed to being 'best of the rest'. We're only 2 points behind Arsenal! Yes they have a couple of games in hand. I think we should give Ronald a couple of seasons before we start casting judgment. Let's see how the summer transfer window goes.

Tony Abrahams
92 Posted 30/04/2017 at 21:33:07
I might be sticking my neck on the line here, because although I was very impressed with our defensive play today, I can't believe that someone would ever have the temerity to compare old ginger to ash blonde.

Still early days but I've just witnessed a kid do two men's jobs today and only when Koeman gets his own team, and enough players to carry out what he wants them to do, should we really judge.

I thought his decision to get Gueye to follow Hazard, really worked, but then I realised that Barkley, for all his improvement in 2017, will never be clever enough to realise that it's all about the team.

I saw an Everton today that I saw many times under David Moyes but whereas today we just weren't good enough going forward, under Moyes going forward was never really an option when he set up his team to go backs against the wall.


Ross Edwards
93 Posted 01/05/2017 at 02:34:02
I feel sorry for him now if I'm honest. His fall from grace is complete. He said it himself didn't he? "There's only one way you go after leaving Everton and that's down".

The Man Utd sacking finished him off I think. He hasn't been the same since both in terms of his career and his demeanour. Once he said, 2 games in, that they were in for a relegation battle Sunderland were doomed. If you're a player in that dressing room listening to defeatism like that so early in the season, would you go all out to play for him?

If he leaves I can't see him getting a big job again. He's yesterday's man now both tactically and in terms of recruiting.

Bill Gienapp
94 Posted 01/05/2017 at 05:09:18
Initially, I thought Moyes would be just competent enough to keep Sunderland afloat in 17th. Uh, yeah – clearly not.

In actuality, he's the last manager you'd want in a bottom-of-the-table scrap these days, as his dour pragmatism inspires absolutely no-one. The fact he came out and publicly conceded a relegation fight after, what, THREE MATCHES, basically set the tone for a dismal campaign.

BTW, I still think Kone would have been a good addition if we'd gotten him last summer. I imagine he was a tad demoralized he had to stay put and seems to be a mental shambles now – shame.

John Daley
95 Posted 01/05/2017 at 07:44:21
"What I really can't get my head around is why the suggestion to bring him back should be mocked, but the suggestion of giving a man (who shows no signs of doing any better) two more years is greeted with such wide approval."

Whilst not overly enthused by what we've seen from Koeman so far it would be disingenuous to claim there's not a significant (and easily fathomable) difference between:

(1) suggesting some bloke who has already been there, done that, failed to kick on, repeated the cycle about four times in 11 years, publicly thrown his hands up in frustration and exclaimed he was limited to spinning plates on a stumpy, semi-flaccid cock while caged in the suffocatingly small confines of 'the people's club', before subsequently taking his leave, talking up his own abilities and falling flat on his arse everywhere he's shown up since, should be welcomed back for a modern-day reboot likely to be about as successful and long-running as 'T J Hooker: Still A Wiggy Fat Twat'.

and

(2) maintaining that a manager not even one year into the job, who has successfully reversed a downward trajectory and met his pre-season target of European qualification, has done enough to be deserving of carrying on into a second year to see if he can build on a fairly solid (if unspectacular) start.

With the first scenario, you're futilely asking for over a decade of well known, boring as fuck, meandering back story to be passed off as mere prelude. With the second, you're simply expecting (or hoping for) the story to shift into a more exciting gear now that some of the key characters have been established.

No guarantee of a rewarding experience either way of course, but it really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that legions would likely lose the will to fucking live if asked to go back and leaf through yet another predictable, dog-eared, chapter of the David Moyes Everton story and would much rather carry on making their way through the newer work they've not long cracked open, even if not completely invested in it yet or hanging on every word.

Darren Hind
96 Posted 01/05/2017 at 08:41:45
"No guarantee of a rewarding experience either way of course, but it really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that legions would likely lose the will to fucking live if asked to go back and leaf through yet another predictable, dog-eared, chapter of the David Moyes Everton story."

That's precisely my point, John; we are revisiting those dark days when we were never, ever "overly enthused". Same dance... different singer.

It's like giving somebody a choice of dying of tedium or boredom. Not sure why one should be so overwhelmingly more appealing than the other.

There has to be more...

Simon Jones
97 Posted 01/05/2017 at 10:21:25
I'm not going to join in slagging off Moyes. I think he did a great job for us, had his head turned by what was the biggest job in football at the time, and has looked like a busted flush since then.

For Everton, his positives outweigh his negatives. He was one poor refereeing decision away from qualifying for the group stages of the Champions League. He made us look up the table and wonder, he raised our expectations.

So what about his comments? We are all big boys and girls; who here hasn't said something stupid and wish they could have taken it back? I don't give a stuff about who he wanted to sign when he left us, the same way Koeman probably would like to have brought a few of his Southampton players. It's cut-throat football, it's competitive and the professionals don't care much for your feelings.

You support a club, not an individual and my club under Moyes gave me more happy times at Goodison than I'd remembered for a long time before that.

Clive Rogers
98 Posted 01/05/2017 at 10:22:22
Sunderland fans have dubbed him "the vampire" for sucking the life out of the players and the club.
Erik Dols
99 Posted 01/05/2017 at 13:04:05
I didn't read everything in the comments but I see a lot of negative comments.

Sunderland was a relegation waiting to happen for years, it is hardly believable they survived for so long after being in a constant relegation battle from somewhere in 2012. I don't think any manager could have saved them in the long run, that is exactly why they kept changing managers and going for the impact-type in recent seasons.

On the other hand, managers like Di Canio, Poyet and Allardyce managed to keep them up, and Moyes did not. Not too good for the resume.

Chris Corn
101 Posted 01/05/2017 at 14:05:30
Simon at (#97), I stand to be corrected here but I remember if Ferguson's goal had been allowed against Villarreal it would have actually drawn us level at 3-3 on aggregate and took us into extra time. I also remember us being outplayed over two legs and being kept in the tie by Nigel Martyn particularly in the second leg. So, although the bad decision cannot be argued with, that goal would not have put us through to the group stages.

And he never raised my expectations. He surrendered meekly in the Semi-Final against Chelsea in 2008.

No shots in target in the second leg at home, then dragged the whole team to the edge of our box in the final in 2009 after 20 seconds and the abysmal performance in the Liverpool semi-final in the second half trying to cling on after we had dominated them was shameful. Not to mention the Bucharest and Lisbon debacles.

Don Alexander
102 Posted 01/05/2017 at 14:08:40
And we also we got embarrassed all over Europe by our "performances" in the EC qualifier after the Villarreal defeat, of course.
Peter Roberts
103 Posted 01/05/2017 at 15:11:06
An arrogant man who lived off saving us from relegation.

Dour, negative, expectation-dampening manager who tried to be the alpha male and could only do it with players who were grateful to be given the chance to play. Among the better players, he was exposed as a poor tactician who didn't know how to set teams up to attack.

Stuck with 4-5-1 even after it became blatantly obvious he had been found out.

Multi-millionaire though and he will no doubt get money as a pundit.

James Hughes
104 Posted 01/05/2017 at 15:43:21
Sunderland have had at least 8 managers in their 10 year stay in the top flight. That's eight different managerial styles, ideas, methods, training regimes etc . As a certain politician is fond of saying, hardly strong and stable leadership.

Whilst Koeman is proving very hit and miss at present it would seem foolish to get rid of now. That would just mean another big pay-out and would be our 4th manager in as many years. Not ideal time to sack him, but then again my knee is not jerking at the latest performance.

Kristian Boyce
105 Posted 01/05/2017 at 15:59:55
As per usual, a Moyes article still gets a 100+ comments, with both pro and anti Moyes sentiment.

As someone else said, I think he's done as a top flight manager. He started to go a bit stale in around 2009, with the lack of flexibility and lack of Plan B clearly on show. I think he had lost interest in the team, but enjoyed the £4M a year contract and a huge amount of control at his disposal.

I think Moyes's problem was that he never developed as a coach from when he first came in. He was a breath of fresh air after the dourness of Smith, and being a young coach, he had some new ideas. Unfortunately, these new ideas are basically the same ideas he was using 8-9 years later.

Even Allardyce and Pulis for all their faults, have adapted over the years to stay current. He's still turning out the 4-5-1 formation, which is his hallmark.

Jon Withey
106 Posted 01/05/2017 at 18:35:06
I can't help but feel sorry for him and his ego but his bank account is just fine.

I remember his appointment well and he did a very good job for a few years.

Man Utd destroyed him though and he shouldn't have burned bridges at Goodison like he did.

Ste Traverse
107 Posted 01/05/2017 at 19:14:20
Interesting article here. Moyes slammed as the 'energy vampire'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-4460892/David-Moyes-vampire-sucked-life-Sunderland.html#comments

Denis Richardson
108 Posted 01/05/2017 at 19:35:29
Fair to say I can't see old Davey managing again in the Premier League. Since leaving us he's yet to manage a club for a full season without either getting sacked (twice) or being relegated. Not exactly a glittering (almost) 4 year period for him.

Everton was always going to be the pinnacle of his career, which was never going to involve winning trophies with his safety-first, tired brand of football.

He always thought he was far better than he actually was and his slide down doesn't surprise me at all. Thoroughly uninspiring as a manager and I still cringe at the farewell he was given at Goodison Park.

Bye-bye, Davey, go and manage Partick Thistle or some other lowly Scottish club. You've probably earned a good 㿊-㿔 million over the years so I guess you're not exactly crying into your single malt!

Andy Crooks
109 Posted 01/05/2017 at 20:49:29
Darren (#96), that is a disappointing post. Moyes had eleven years. What he said he would achieve was to never have us referred to as " crisis club Everton", he did that.

After that there were wasted years when I believe we could have done much better. However, you are talking about months here. You don't like Koeman and, to be fair you didn't like his appointment. Can you not accept that Europa league is a decent start after following the mess left by the hapless Martinez?

I would enjoy better, slicker football but I am prepared to judge Koeman in years rather than months. We are not Sunderland. Also, Darren, I bow to no-one in my admiration of Unsworth, so, how long would you give him? Three defeats in a row?

You have been an Evertonian for longer than me so I am surprised at your short-termism. Give the man a chance. What he earns is irrelevant. Come next Christmas we will know more and if it is shite I might eat humble pie and join you.

Brent Stephens
110 Posted 01/05/2017 at 21:05:20
Andy, I think, like you, we have to give Koeman more than 9 months. However, if after two years (or whatever), he fails and I want him to go, I wouldn't see it as eating humble pie.

I say this because I'm not predicting he'll set our world alight (though European football after 9 months ain't bad) – nobody knows; I'm just prepared to give him sufficient time to prove that the progress in the first year can be built on further.

Tony Hill
111 Posted 01/05/2017 at 21:23:17
Of course, we must remind ourselves that Martinez also got European football in his first season and achieved 5 more points than we can do this season if we win our last 3 games.

Then it all went wrong.

Colin Metcalfe
112 Posted 01/05/2017 at 22:00:10
Wow, over 100 comments about our former former manager... whereas we should be talking about our current manager – I call him Moyes Mk ll.
Colin Glassar
113 Posted 01/05/2017 at 22:15:02
113 to be exact. Moyes out!!!
Darren Hind
114 Posted 02/05/2017 at 06:51:00
Okay Andy,

But if Koeman comes good, I will be showing my arse to all four stands at Goodison while I eat my humble pie (post #73)

I don't feel this is short-termism, I simply feel I have seen more than enough. Koeman will have been here a full season and had two windows in which to buy creative players. £80 million and I don't see a creative bone in the body of the players he has brought in... not forgetting his failure to land Sissoko.

I haven't completely given up hope of seeing Everton lift the title in my lifetime but I know it gets increasingly unlikely.

A leopard does not change his spots; Koeman won't have a "Damascus moment"... In my view, there is no point in prolonging the misery for another two years; every season "of soulless, joyless football", as somebody on the match day thread calls it, is a season wasted.

Matthew Williams
115 Posted 02/05/2017 at 14:19:03
I've never forgiven that snake after the 1-0 home defeat to Reading in the Cup. He was at our club for 11 years... no Trophy!!!???

Says it all really... Shite!!!

Peter Fearon
116 Posted 02/05/2017 at 14:31:47
Now that Sunderland are going down there are two players I would like to see us go for.

One is Adnan Januzaj, who was there on loan because Mourinho clearly wasn't interested in using him. He could be a creative link-up with Romelu Lukaku – if he stays – and God knows he needs the service.

The other is Jack Rodwell. I was disappointed his development as a player slumped because of injury and because Man City was just not the right place for him. I still think he has a lot of potential.

Obviously we need other marquee players to come in this summer, but those are two who could also make an impact on the squad. God knows the pickings must be slim if Kone is still getting playing time.

Andy Meighan
117 Posted 02/05/2017 at 18:59:07
Peter (#116). Are you serious?Januzaj and Rodwell. Not for one minute would either of them improve our team.

Deulofeu is better than Januzaj and he's shite. As for Rodwell, words fail me. What do some of our fans watch. I despair, I really do.

Jay Harris
118 Posted 03/05/2017 at 19:49:48
Peter,

I am afraid I am with Andy on this one.

If you can't get a regular game at a relegation-threatened Sunderland, then you are hardly likely to take your next club to the top 4.

I am even having doubts about Pickford because of his recent performances and he is supposed to be the star of that team.

Back to Moyes; I think he became disillusioned in his last few years with us because the promised investment never came and then he took on the poisoned chalice at Man Utd and to be fair did as well as Van Gaal and Mourhino over the same number of games but is now a broken man IMO.

Any comparison with Koeman has to be a joke.

Ian McDowell
119 Posted 03/05/2017 at 20:10:40
Rodwell and Januzaj, dear god. Both wouldn't get in the U23 side let alone the first team.
David Flint
121 Posted 05/05/2017 at 00:04:48
To the argument that it was an impossible job.... no-one could have kept them up... the problems were there before he arrived etc. All I'll say is, what was the point in hiring him and paying such a hefty salary (£40-50k a week, I believe)?

If all the manager could do was go through the motions and oversee relegation, they may as well have appointed someone from the backroom staff for a tenth of the wage.

Ste Traverse
122 Posted 05/05/2017 at 13:33:41
I see Moyes has come out today and publicly said he'll be at Sunderland next season. I feel sorry for their beleaguered fans who are in uproar about it on their fansites.

When they play the likes of Aston Villa and Leeds next season he'll probably go on about 'taking a water gun to a knife fight'.

Dan Egerton
123 Posted 09/05/2017 at 12:59:40
David Moyes managing a team in the Championship. Dare I say it, like taking a knife to a gunfight... lol
David Graves
124 Posted 22/05/2017 at 20:02:14
Peter – Jack Rodwell?

39 starts without a win at Sunderland. How do you think he would add to our team? Who do you see him playing instead of?

Eugene Ruane
125 Posted 22/05/2017 at 20:44:56
Wow, 13 days between post 123 and 124.

"I'll tell you something, he's hopeless"

(two weeks passes)

"Tell me about it!"

Just curious if there's a TW record for most time between posts?

(obviously I'm very interested in the political situation too and..um..the environment)

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