"It’s up to the player but we won’t wait until August," Koeman said.
Ronald Koeman has reiterated his stance that Ross Barkley needs to sign a new contract with Everton or be sold this summer.
The Dutchman has been unequivocal on the topic of the 23-year-old's future in recent weeks and he stuck by his insistence that he needs a decision either way before the end of the season so that he and Steve Walsh can get on with building the team in the close season.
Barkley will be entering the final year of his existing contract this summer but his manager is not willing to wait around for him to decide whether to stay with the Blues and he has ruled out the possibility of him seeing out his contract, at which point the club would only be able to command a nominal development fee due to the fact that he would still be 24 next June.
Koeman was asked by Sky Sports' Vinny O'Connor to say where the negotiations are on Barkley's contract situation at his pre-match press conference ahead of the visit of Watford tomorrow.
“There's still one more week, hey?” the Dutchman smirked. “Still time for him to decide because the boy is already working a long time to sign and for Ross to stay for a longer period.
“It's up to the player but we won't wait until August. We need an answer before next week. If we go for a holiday, we need to know [if he is going to] sign a new contract or we will sell the player.”
Asked if he had any inkling over whether Barkley would agree to new terms with Everton, Koeman said: “I don't know. If you need so much time then you have doubts.
“[That doesn't concern me]. I like to work with players who want to stay and we are already trying to get players in for next season in the front positions.”
Reader Comments (207)
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1 Posted 12/05/2017 at 06:32:24
Secondly I think Barkley has had a good season on a whole. Maybe a few too little goals & assists, but still not bad.
I think he will start a smaller percentage of games next season, but still play more games in total than he has this season.
Lastly, I'd hate him to go. Especially because I'd hate to see him at another club & even more, I'd hate to see him warming the bench at another club.
Sigurdsson should come in, whether Barkley stays or goes.
Klaasens in as a central midfielder, along with Tielemans.
2 Posted 12/05/2017 at 06:36:42
And if I hear anyone going "But he has to think of his own future" I will search you out!
He will be financially quids in staying and as for playing time and success, well bloody work for both.
I am so sick of a league full of petulant little wankers, blue or not. It's like giving you kid £2m and then hearing him/her say that Sam Abramovich's daddy gave him/her £3m and he/she doesn't have to go to school anymore.
This business just laughs in all our faces and watches us fans scrabble around exchanging opinions they wouldn't piss on.
Fucking livid... 😠
3 Posted 12/05/2017 at 06:40:54
On the one hand, Ross has improved since Christmas and has been a reliably good player for us. On the other, he still seems like he is playing in himself, and we are not seeing the Barkley that we saw in Martinez's first season who was full of flair and confidence.
Would he displace Coutinho or Eriksen from their respective teams? I doubt it. So if he leaves us, where will he go?
4 Posted 12/05/2017 at 06:44:16
If my understanding as above is correct, Koeman does not have the power to dictate that Barkley be sold. Barkley can be sold before the end of the contract if, and only if, both Everton and Barkley agree to it.
On this basis, Koeman appears to be speaking foolishly, in a way that is inconsistent with the constraints of Barkley's contract.
5 Posted 12/05/2017 at 06:44:59
Manager looking to rebuild his team for next season gives player deadline to sign contract, thus enabling him to know where the team needs reinforcing.
Scoundrel that Koeman
6 Posted 12/05/2017 at 06:50:52
7 Posted 12/05/2017 at 06:53:15
We don't have much option really, do we? I'm sure the terms offered are fair. My only surprise is that he hasn't put pen to paper quicker.
8 Posted 12/05/2017 at 06:56:11
The point is, if Barkley won't sign the contract, then surely it's because he does want to leave Everton.
9 Posted 12/05/2017 at 07:01:24
For an attacking No 10, he is poor compared to his superiors in the same position in at least the clubs above us and a few below us. I wanted him gone last summer and he will be top of my outgoings list come June/July this year.
10 Posted 12/05/2017 at 07:06:11
11 Posted 12/05/2017 at 07:09:31
12 Posted 12/05/2017 at 07:27:13
1) I don't think he is irreplaceable by any means. Chances created is meaningless. He doesn't score enough goals, and I think his set piece delivery is hit and miss. This may improve with better players around him, granted.
2) He never seems to perform to his max in big games. He isn't alone in this, but it is a fact.
On this move I think he has to be careful. He isn't going to go to a Champions League club and play, week-in & week-out.
Tottenham – Won't pay him the wages anyway. Have Alli and Erikson. As someone pointed out on here, Dembele is a top player and doesn't play week-in & week-out.
Man Utd – Don't really see a route to first team with him at all.
Man City – Would have him due to English quota. Again, don't see him playing where he wants to.
Liverpool – N/A
Arsenal – This is where I could see him going. Club in transition though, who, within a few years, will lose their manager. Not really sure where they are heading.
Wish the lad would just be clear. In many jobs you don't have the luxury of waiting months to decide whether you want to stay or go. Same is true for him. For all the criticism of Rom, at least you normally know where you stand...
13 Posted 12/05/2017 at 07:32:39
Then we really will be torn.
14 Posted 12/05/2017 at 07:38:54
If it's a genuine goodbye to Goodison then people will work that out.
I hope he stays but not convinced he sees himself part of the Koeman's plans over the next 2 years.
15 Posted 12/05/2017 at 07:50:15
He reminds me more of Tony Hibbert, who described the Goodison faithful as 'punters'. His treatment of the fans and the club is becoming a disgrace.
16 Posted 12/05/2017 at 07:50:48
17 Posted 12/05/2017 at 07:54:24
Lukaku has two years left; Barkley has one.
18 Posted 12/05/2017 at 08:12:07
My head tells me, if he was still here, then this time in 12 months, we are having the same discussions about a player that doesn't score enough, runs down blind alleys, can't see a pass, displays poor decision making, and doesn't turn up in big games... so sell him anyway.
19 Posted 12/05/2017 at 08:19:06
Being tapped up would be more than enough distraction to affect him on the field in my opinion. Just his agents mentioning this would be enough in my opinion.
I can't see where he would go and have any hope of improving a team above us. I could possibly see him bench warming at Spurs though given what they spent on Sissoko to do the same good luck with that Ross.
If he doesn't decide, then I agree with Koeman; get top dollar, move on with a replacement and forget about him.
20 Posted 12/05/2017 at 08:20:10
Either way, Koeman does not get to dictate that Barkley will be sold. As such, Koeman appears to be talking tough without having the contractual basis to do so. Which makes the management look stupid.
21 Posted 12/05/2017 at 08:26:14
Of course Ross could dig his heels in and refuse to sign or leave, but what would that achieve?
Koeman has already shown his ruthless streak. If Barkley doesn't sign, then there will be no place for him in the squad. Koeman and the board won't allow him to go for free.
It will be a case of, sign for another club or spend next season in the U23s.
22 Posted 12/05/2017 at 08:30:33
23 Posted 12/05/2017 at 08:35:46
Simple answer is that the situation is not the same.
By contrast to Ross, Rom has two years left on his contract, he has given EFC his response (albeit one many of us didn't want to hear) to the contract offer and has been told by Moshiri/EFC that he will be expected to honour his side of the contract for as long as it suits us.
Should the situation change, then this time next year your question might have some validity.
24 Posted 12/05/2017 at 08:37:34
I suspect he's not been guaranteed a starting place next season with Koeman's rebuilding plans and needs to decide if he's got the appetite to battle for the shirt.
25 Posted 12/05/2017 at 08:38:37
27 Posted 12/05/2017 at 08:42:24
My guess is that it will be the clearest indication if he is leaving or not.
In the team? He will stay...
On the bench (or dropped)... then he has told Koeman where to go.
28 Posted 12/05/2017 at 08:43:36
The money rules for wages and such may suffer from that, but if he can't be forced to go, we'll have to live with that.
29 Posted 12/05/2017 at 08:47:40
30 Posted 12/05/2017 at 09:16:37
Ross has had a few good games since Christmas; I wouldn't say he has improved. What he has proved to me at least is his inconsistent, even in most games he has been a mixture of good and bad.
I don't know if Koeman has handled the situation properly because none of us know the full facts, but what I do know is it wouldn't bother me if Ross goes or stays. I would like Everton to get a fee for him, but I could also understand if Ross decides to see his contract out and maybe get a better financial deal for himself.
31 Posted 12/05/2017 at 09:24:02
I have to say that Koeman is making himself look idiotic, as he's done before. He's trying to look tough, but failing miserably. As mentioned on another thread, he looks like the black knight.
32 Posted 12/05/2017 at 09:25:32
33 Posted 12/05/2017 at 09:43:52
I am hoping he stays and we bring some quality in around him. That's me being ambitious. If the club want to be ambitious they can tell anyone they are not for sale and we do things to win from now on.pNot to please an individual player or an agent, we do things to win as a club and build the best possible 11 we can.
Anyone who says get rid and get Davy Klaasen in would be banned from Goodison if I was Moshiri.
1 because you don't really know much about Klaasen;
2 because we should't be selling to buy anyone;
3 we are supposed to be building a squad not re-building like the last 25 years.
I like Sigurdsson a lot but let's stop pretending we know everything about every player we are linked with.
34 Posted 12/05/2017 at 09:45:02
EFC is bigger than any player, but no club is big enough to over-ride contractual obligations. Strikes me that Koeman would be well advised to carry out discussions, especially involving contracts, in-house rather than in public.
35 Posted 12/05/2017 at 09:46:33
That's more thoughtful and creative than anything I have seen from Koeman since he came here.
36 Posted 12/05/2017 at 10:10:27
You'd make a hopeless poker player!
Seriously, negotiations are a game. We are now calling Ross's bluff. Time to put up or shut up for him.
Of course he could leave in 12 months on a free, which we wouldn't like. But guess what? Ross wouldn't like that option either, in my opinion. He would be made to rot for 12 months if he did that. If he got a bad injury in training, he might never get to sign that big contract.
The best outcome for all concerned is for this to be resolved one way or another this summer. So we need to know Ross's intentions now.
37 Posted 12/05/2017 at 10:26:50
This is particularly possible if he thinks his relationship with Koeman might be impacting negatively on his career.
Even if Koeman stays only two more years it's an eternity in footballing terms. That's a conversation I would have with him if I was his lucky agent.
I left a couple of jobs I liked because of my bosses so I'm thinking maybe...
38 Posted 12/05/2017 at 10:27:15
Koeman wants him to sign before he gets the chance to see what offers are available. He doesn't want a new contract to be a back up option.
If no one from top 4 comes calling, he won't be afforded the choice of signing on improved terms, does he then choose another club based on wages on offer? In which case, his ambition could be questioned.
So, he doesn't sign. Koeman goes out and buys a player for his position that he believes in. Ross chooses to see out his contract, but sits lower in the pecking order.
For me, this isn't about how good he is, or whether Koeman wants him; it's a simple choice. We are trying to build something. The progress this season has been decent. Do you want to be part of it or do you want to go somewhere else?
Rom is a different kettle of fish, a true outstanding player who would be very difficult to replace. He has two years left so the club can't be forced unless some other team is willing to stump up the cash, and there are probably a few who would be tempted .
Who is actually interested in Barkley? If he knows someone is... easy just say "I am not signing."
39 Posted 12/05/2017 at 11:06:28
If you have 90 minutes of fans calling out for Ross, then it would be hard for him to walk away. If nobody seems bothered tonight, then we make his mind up for him.
40 Posted 12/05/2017 at 11:19:54
Sigurdsson looked a class player even when he was a young kid and I'd be delighted if we signed him this summer. He has a lot more strings to his bow than Ross has, especially scoring goals and assists.
41 Posted 12/05/2017 at 11:33:35
I think you are technically correct for example, we wanted to sell Niasse last summer but didn't get an offer to his liking. It's possible that the same will happen with Barkley should we invite offers for him. But highly unlikely.
He may not get an offer from a Champions League club but he will get offers from Premier League clubs that can offer him first team football. So in practice we can "decide" to sell him (but you are correct).
I think his worry is that if he signs a new contract he may lose his place in the team after we buy more players over the summer. From Everton's perspective, that would be the best outcome... but from Ross's perspective, it would be a blow to his career. I can see why there is an impasse.
42 Posted 12/05/2017 at 11:42:37
Why are his comments always in the public eye or on Sky? It just makes the club look like amateurs.
Additionally, his team selections and tactics are baffling, do they not have wide players or wingers in Holland?
At least Ross is or was a genuine blue not like Ronald Koeman, who is just using the club to enhance his career and his bank account.
43 Posted 12/05/2017 at 11:46:58
Barkley has been given a deadline. If he doesn't sign the contract then he will be sold. Yes, he could dig his heels in and refuse to leave, but why would he do that?
Koeman has made it very clear that he is the boss. If he has given Ross an ultimatum then there is no 3rd option. It is sign or leave.
If Ross tried to run down his contract, then he would find himself training with the kids. He won't risk that as it will stall his career and screw up any chances of playing for England. Plus, the boy wants to play.
He's off to Spurs.
44 Posted 12/05/2017 at 12:19:33
However, the only explanation I can see with regards to this stand-off is that his agent has something up his sleeve but there is little they can do until the season is over. I also believe Koeman has made it almost impossible for him to remain, given his unnecessary and outspoken comments.
46 Posted 12/05/2017 at 12:51:01
Scouser he'll soon be moving on,
Just like John Stones and Nicky Barmby,
Wayne Rooney and fuck off Steve McMahon.
So if your feeling sad,
This song will drive you mad.
There's no such thing as "Once and always Blue..."
47 Posted 12/05/2017 at 13:07:49
Koeman is a godsend to Ross after Moyes and Martinez. Moyes farmed him out while Martinez took away his discipline.
The summer should see a good 5 or 6 players coming in. There is talk of Rooney but unless he loses 20 pounds and really gets his fitness up, it is a real poser.
A keeper is a priority. Someone to fill the right back spot. Central defender to partner Holgate? Davies, Lookman, Calvert-Lewin. Walsh Williams Kenny look like the future. Any more likely lads coming through. Pennington? Besic to return or be sold?
One thing is for sure its going to be an interesting summer.
48 Posted 12/05/2017 at 13:24:56
So if he's just looking for a few more pounds in his pocket we would be well shut of him.I could think of plenty of players in the Premier League and abroad who we could get who would be better for the team.
All this about "being a blue" and "playing for the fans" is utter crap always has been and always will be as money is the only thing the player and his agent thinks about
49 Posted 12/05/2017 at 13:25:40
After all the dross that has been served up by the likes of Martinez and Kenwright etc, is it not refreshing to have a man in charge who will tell us, the fans, what the situation is?
50 Posted 12/05/2017 at 13:31:10
Would we be getting so wound up if we were talking about any other past Everton midfielder who had contributed just three goals in open play since November 2015?
If that was Thomas Gravesen, Scott Gemmill or the like, we would be scoffing at this goals return for a so-called creative attacking midfielder ,so really we are all just living on the hype Barkley was receiving four years ago hype that's proved fruitless and misguided.
Barkley is a decent midfielder nothing more and as for looking fantastic in certain games and dominating them?
Well I don't remember many this season nor too many last... or the season before, for that matter.
51 Posted 12/05/2017 at 13:33:18
Has he really told us the situation? Do we have a response from Barkley?
52 Posted 12/05/2017 at 14:15:15
The delay makes me feel Ross is waiting for something to happen. No proof just the gut. Perhaps an offer is in the pipeline from another club? Otherwise, why not say either way?
My point is a wider one; under Moshiri I had thought the days of this amateur hour style farce played out in public had gone.
If we want to be a big club in the main you play these scenarios out behind closed doors and keep tight lipped.
This is ultimately a worry; if we are to have the stellar summer we need in the markets then this is an abysmal start and it simply trying to extend an existing player's contract!
Lastly, it's another peek into the world of Koeman the manager. Whilst brutal can work in a training field, its a fading and outdated coaching concept left over from an age when the manager had the final say on everything and the players knew it.
How do Everton play and whats missing? We play with power seeking to bludgeon the opposition without a rapier finish... Koeman, that.
53 Posted 12/05/2017 at 14:34:45
54 Posted 12/05/2017 at 14:41:14
If he doesn't sign, he is under contract so we keep a squad player. Koeman could always decide to take away his number and locker.
His goals tally won't be hard to replace. His turnovers won't be missed either if he goes.
55 Posted 12/05/2017 at 15:50:51
Seems to be that playing for Everton is the kiss of death when it comes to having any England ambitions. Even Harvey and Kendall couldn't get picked.
56 Posted 12/05/2017 at 16:02:26
Koeman is ruthless enough to demote Ross to the Under-23s if he decided to see out his contract;this would effectively kill off his career as he would disappear from the Premier League,and the England set up.
I can't see Barkley staying and, to be honest, he's not the player to take us to the next level anymore he is like Mirallas, a good squad player but nothing more.
So... staying or going? I welcome a new look midfield soon...
57 Posted 12/05/2017 at 16:34:19
To my knowledge, Barkley doesn't have one agent... he's represented by a Los Angles agency called Wasserman that also represents (or represented) Gerrard, Tim Howard and Timmy Cahill. And nobody wears long sleeves in LA this time of year.
58 Posted 12/05/2017 at 16:40:32
59 Posted 12/05/2017 at 16:44:01
I actually feel it would be better for the lad to move on. I am a fan, and he's my youngest son's favourite player, but I think the pressure is too much for him.
If he does leave, I will follow his career closely and hope he fulfills his potential. It would be bitter-sweet, but he's one of us.
60 Posted 12/05/2017 at 16:44:18
I love the way we're all blaming Koeman for Barkley's poor contribution when the truth of the matter is Ross has been inconsistent and dithery since he first came onto the scene.
He has never scored goals consistently, rarely won a header from midfield, doesn't close down or tackle and just jogs around the pitch making the occasional "Hollywood" pass.
There is no doubt he is technically gifted but cant seem to apply it on the pitch at the highest level.
Koeman is ruthless and bluntly honest and I for one am happy to have him as manager.
61 Posted 12/05/2017 at 16:45:04
If you're not doing it on the pitch you don't play!
If don't want to sign then go!
The club is in charge not modern-day jumped-up players an their agents!
62 Posted 12/05/2017 at 16:50:33
63 Posted 12/05/2017 at 16:58:19
I hope his career nose dives in spectacular fashion and he comes crawling back after rehab to coach the Under-2s. I was livid first thing and getting more so.
64 Posted 12/05/2017 at 17:36:22
Therefore you'd have to think Ross is quite happy to leave because if he signs at the last minute it just makes him look like a bit of a tit and it will also have pissed off Koeman by then and who wants to piss of their manager for the next x number of years?
There's no logical reason for not signing within the seven days if he wanted to stay, is there?
So, from that, it seems reasonable to assume he won't sign.
65 Posted 12/05/2017 at 18:03:30
66 Posted 12/05/2017 at 18:10:14
Guess everybody has an opinion on our #8, eh?
67 Posted 12/05/2017 at 18:24:17
1) He's crap get rid of him.
2) He's brilliant keep him.
3) He may be great... but c'est la vie if he goes.
68 Posted 12/05/2017 at 20:25:11
I don't want any players at Everton who are "great on their day". I want persistent performers, real triers.
Let him go, he's not going to change. He's another Mirallas; too predictable. Why he's staying, I have no idea.
There are 3 players at Everton that I would not want to see leave. Gueye, Schneiderlin and young Tom Davies. That's your lot.
69 Posted 12/05/2017 at 21:32:07
70 Posted 12/05/2017 at 21:41:36
Perhaps the issue of how good or bad Koeman is and whether he should stay will itself become the subject of plenty of threads. Watch that particular space.
71 Posted 12/05/2017 at 21:46:14
72 Posted 13/05/2017 at 00:17:15
73 Posted 13/05/2017 at 00:34:25
Peter Reid said today that we should sell Ross and that based on his performances in big games he was "less than average."
Kevin Ratcliffe and Michael Ball have both said he's not good enough to start as a regular for the six teams above us. Ratcliffe also applauded Koeman's ultimatum.
A few years ago, Pienaar also made comment on Ross not developing.
All the above know a thing or two about football and Everton. I'm not saying it means they're always right... But it's interesting.
74 Posted 13/05/2017 at 01:03:51
75 Posted 13/05/2017 at 02:11:03
I have always thought that many fans were too quick to give Ross a hard time and believed it was in bad taste, judging him on abilities of others like Frank Lampard and Gerrard, but it's becoming increasingly obvious that he's simply not improving with us.
I have a feeling that Ross will still become a much better player than he's been this season, but to improve, he may need to move as he's clearly not doing it at us.
He isn't exactly our worst player, in fact he's much better than all our attacking midfield options, but his value is around £30m and at that price we can get better. People have mentioned Sigurdsson and rightly so, but there are others. Mahrez at Leicester hasn't exactly been bang at it this season but he's quality and £30m would probably secure his signature.
Truth be known, there lots of players world wide we could get for £30m !!
We won tonight and Ross scored but I'm sick of seeing us struggle in 7th with players who don't really want to be at us, Rom, Ross, and McCarthy (I know he didn't play but he never seems to play !)are prime examples of players who seem to have other ideas in mind.
The three players mention above could bring in around £120m, that type of money can bring in quality to the club who would be hungry after moving clubs. Plus we have the Niasse, Cleverley, Deulofeu, and McGeedy money to boost the £120m to upwards of £150m.
There's loads of possibilities with £150m but even off the top of my head we could buy Siguardsson £30m, Marhez £30m, Giroud £15m, Hart £15m, Keane £25m, Tielemans £20m,and Klaassen £20m and only spent £155m. Clearly that would be better than what we already have now.
The above would add 2 title winners, 5 proven Premier League players, and a lot more creativity than we currently have (I'm not saying all the above is everyone's preferred choices but it would add a lot and at the prices it allows us to get in like minded players).
Let's move out the players who don't want to sign and bring in new blood to freshen it up. Davies, Gana and Schneiderlin have already shown the type of hunger the right type of player can bring to the club.
Back to Ross – he's a Boyhood Blue being offered around £25m basic for 5 years... if that's not good enough for him, then fuck him off.
76 Posted 13/05/2017 at 02:42:41
77 Posted 13/05/2017 at 06:43:40
Besides, I believe Koeman has weighed up better and less overrated players and would be happy to cash in.
78 Posted 13/05/2017 at 08:04:49
Barkley... who wants him? We are going forward with sights set high; obviously, he doesn't want to be part of this. Sell him before he starts to rot the rest of the squad.
I'd give that so called "Number 10" role to Tom Davies. He has more skill and a set of bollocks, never pulls out of a challenge. I wouldn't give Barkley another day; get rid.
79 Posted 13/05/2017 at 10:55:50
80 Posted 13/05/2017 at 12:08:12
81 Posted 13/05/2017 at 12:23:24
I struggle to see how this is making Koeman look silly or whatever you called him!
82 Posted 13/05/2017 at 14:01:39
Koeman makes it look like an ultimatum to Barkley, which it cannot be, since if Barkley doesn't sign then Barkley has a say in whether he's sold or not. What Koeman has said is not consistent with these contractual facts, and in this sense Koeman looks very stupid. At least to me he does.
He doesn't seem to be the sharpest tool in the box, and needs advice on dealing with the media. I'll be happy to provide it for 1% of his salary.
83 Posted 13/05/2017 at 14:23:46
84 Posted 13/05/2017 at 14:42:01
I wouldn't even bother expressing that opinion if Koeman hadn't displayed crass public relations on other occasions, with remarks about Niasse (cringeworthy), his remarks that Lukaku would need to leave Everton to fulfil his potential (great image for our so-called 'project'), and constant public assessments of Barkley.
I've supported Koeman from the start, but have learned that he could perform a lot better when he opens his mouth in public.
85 Posted 13/05/2017 at 15:04:26
89 Posted 13/05/2017 at 15:26:07
90 Posted 13/05/2017 at 15:42:34
The sharper man would keep quiet and put the pressure on the player in private. I suspect that hasn't worked and Koeman's blinked first and started mouthing off.
Regardless, I'm hoping we buy better midfielders in the summer. If Barkley chooses to stay, I can only see him improving by learning from better players.
Too many people are describing the Ross they want to see, rather than the one we actually see. I'm tired of the excuses and the increasing list if managers who 'don't get him'.
91 Posted 13/05/2017 at 15:53:28
He's keeping quiet about Rom on the other hand because he knows that it'll be almost impossible without Champions League football to attract an improvement.
92 Posted 13/05/2017 at 15:54:10
He has got ability but would he walk in to any of the top six teams? No.
If Spurs can waste £30 million on Sissoko, they may buy Barkley as a bench warmer.
93 Posted 13/05/2017 at 16:08:51
To rebuild a club you need certainty, who is going, who wants to stay. Koeman's reading of the situation is spot on. He's saying it public like to force Barkley and his scummy agent to put up or shut up. I agree with this ultimatum.
94 Posted 13/05/2017 at 16:10:40
I'd rather sell him now for £20-30 million than see him twaddle about our midfield, stinking up the joint, and let him walk on a Bosman 13 months from now.
95 Posted 13/05/2017 at 16:20:01
It looks that Swansea will stay up so we may not get Sigurdsson as he seems to prefer Swansea. Other players mentioned will also attract bids from other clubs so it will depend who wants them the most.
The only thing we have to offer at the moment is games in Europe, the promise of a new stadium in 3-4 years and a finishing position of the best outside the top six. It will be interesting in the transfer window as the management team instead of talking, will have to put their words into positive action to show the supporters what their ambitions on the field are.
As far as Koeman's comments about Barkley and his future, how often have we as supporters complained about the lack of information coming from the management team about the players and the club? To me, he is just giving a truthful answer to a question he was asked. He is the only one who is aware of who he wants at the club and who he doesn't; so why not let the supporters be aware if a player wants to play for Everton next season or he wants to move on?
Barkley has had months to decide what he wants to do, so why leave it until the last week of the season? You can't build up the team in the transfer season with a "Will he or a will he not sign" player.
96 Posted 13/05/2017 at 18:27:43
97 Posted 13/05/2017 at 19:02:58
98 Posted 13/05/2017 at 19:20:33
Ratcliffe, Reid, Ball numerous ex international footballers are all in the same box.
99 Posted 13/05/2017 at 19:25:41
Every man and his dog will be chipping in giving opinions on Barkley, whilst he himself appears to have said little or nothing publicly. I originally thought that Koeman would be like Catterick, discreet and professional, but I'm clearly mistaken.
101 Posted 13/05/2017 at 20:04:21
Sign or be sold that's the message Barkley will be sold if he doesn't sign; his contract won't say anything to the contary so I'm not sure why you raise contractual facts in to it!
102 Posted 13/05/2017 at 20:16:01
103 Posted 13/05/2017 at 20:16:10
There as been so much smoke around Lukaku and Barkley over the last few weeks that there has to be a huge fire behind these rumours.
It appears they have both had offers. If they are going to leave then the sooner the better.
We need to spend the money on decent replacements asap. Let's avoid around jerking around at five minutes to midnight on transfer day.
104 Posted 13/05/2017 at 20:17:33
In public, he says "A contract offer is on the table for Ross Barkley, when we have further news, we'll let you know."
No lies told; no embarrassment caused.
105 Posted 13/05/2017 at 20:18:37
No wonder Koeman has lost his patience, Ross has been made a perfectly good offer but refuses to sign, for whatever reason, it's totally irrelevant to most of the fans.
When a legend like Peter Reid comes out and says Ross is average, you have to respect that, and £100k a week for a squad player is a bit ridiculous. Hopefully this saga is brought to a swift end as soon as the season ends, and we recruit real quality.
106 Posted 13/05/2017 at 20:36:08
107 Posted 13/05/2017 at 20:49:12
You can't turn the clock back; this is the world of social media, like it or not transfers and transfer speculation will be raked over from every angle. We can never go back to deals behind closed doors.
108 Posted 13/05/2017 at 20:55:49
109 Posted 13/05/2017 at 20:58:10
What is happening here is outside of normal contract discussions, including in football. What Koeman said was technically incorrect, for the reasons I've pointed to, and should not have been said as they were said. It's simply a case of proper professional communication, not a subject of media (broadcast or social) shite mongering.
110 Posted 13/05/2017 at 21:00:38
111 Posted 13/05/2017 at 21:02:25
112 Posted 13/05/2017 at 21:06:38
113 Posted 13/05/2017 at 21:07:38
It wouldn't surprise me one bit to see him in a RedShite shirt next season.
He's that fucking thick! I never thought I would see Steve McMahon in one all those years ago and it happened... then there is the Barmby situation.
114 Posted 13/05/2017 at 21:13:21
115 Posted 13/05/2017 at 21:13:37
116 Posted 13/05/2017 at 21:15:13
117 Posted 13/05/2017 at 21:18:16
118 Posted 14/05/2017 at 08:02:34
Unfortunately, Ross believes his hype; one word "Jeffers". Get off Koeman's back, it's refreshing to hear a manager being honest.
So, Mr Barkley... sign or, in modern parlance, sir "Do one!"
119 Posted 14/05/2017 at 08:09:32
Republic of Ireland and Everton right-back Seamus Coleman was instrumental in making Daire's dream come true when he donated £5,000 to the cause after reading about Daire's story on Belfast Live.
On Friday, Daire travelled to Finch Farm, Everton's training ground to meet Seamus and his other footballing heroes before he led the players onto the pitch at Goodison Park on Friday night for their game against Watford.
After the kind donation from Coleman last year, Daire's mum Colette told Belfast Live she broke down in tears when she got the news.
She said: "I'm honestly lost for words, we are just a normal family from Belfast and to have someone so famous to donate and help Daire, it's just unbelievable.
"I just started crying when I heard the news.
"I just can't describe it, I'm so emotional because you get caught up in that hospital bubble and you do think there's nothing else, but this has shown us that there are decent people and somebody as big as Seamus Coleman to do that for us, it's incredible, we're just a wee family from Belfast."
120 Posted 14/05/2017 at 08:39:06
121 Posted 14/05/2017 at 08:45:09
122 Posted 14/05/2017 at 08:51:15
123 Posted 14/05/2017 at 09:05:52
The hypocrisy underlying this is staggering, it's amateur night and Koeman has to be acting with the blessing of the board.
Commercial reality is that, for no other reason than money, Barkley is being threatened to extend into a new contract that still has over a year to run. What's the point of a term contract?
We have no idea of the stumbling block, be it money, manager or playing staff... but Barkley is entitled to have those concerns addressed or answered in commercial confidence and not be the subject of the mud-slinging media with which some posters align.
I don't care if the lad is world class or crap that's opinion, but the club and manager are dragging his name through the mud by allowing this to continue. He is being made the subject of ridicule and derision and must feel his loyalties are misplaced.
124 Posted 14/05/2017 at 09:35:58
125 Posted 14/05/2017 at 10:09:29
If this is what the new era of Everton entails, Everton being actively embroiled in the dirty business of media manipulation that invites speculation by the mob, then I've no intention of contributing my money any further to the cause of Everton.
126 Posted 14/05/2017 at 10:20:42
This is not just in life in general but most particularly in the world of Sky era Premier League and rabid tabloid coverage where pretty much anything goes.
I find it sad that this is the case and I'm not cynical enough (yet) to just accept it, but I don't think, with the greatest respect, that this is a reason not to go to watch Everton any more, Stan, if that is what you are meaning.
127 Posted 14/05/2017 at 10:35:18
128 Posted 14/05/2017 at 10:39:51
A. Barkley may want to leave no matter what and has an offer on the table. If so, why hasn't his agent told the club?
B. His agent is just holding out for a better deal, and has told Barkley not to sign until he reaches the magic number.
I can't really think of another scenario, so in both cases, I don't see how this is 'bullying' however way you want to spin it? It's out in the public domain there is a contract offer. Poor, multi-millionaire agents and player, eh?
People lose their shit over anything & everything these days. This doesn't come close to twanging my heart-strings, sorry. Stan above wants to pack it all in dear me.
129 Posted 14/05/2017 at 10:40:50
"Barkley has said nothing in public, but obviously has an enormous amount to say in private. He must think he's good enough to play at the very top; let him prove it. He's holding the club to ransom.
No wonder Koeman has lost his patience, Ross has been made a perfectly good offer but refuses to sign, for whatever reason, it's totally irrelevant to most of the fans."
1.How do you know how much Barkley has said in private?
2. Do you know the offer is perfectly good?
Whatever one thinks of the abilities of Barkley, he has kept his gob shut in public. We have no idea of what is in the new offer.
There could be stumbling blocks over the pay, over add-ons, or over the amount to trigger transfers to another club. We simply have no idea.
If his advisers tell him not to sign because he is worth as much as Schneiderlin, or the club has a buy-out clause set at £60 million, then is he supposed to listen to them, or to some disgruntled fans on ToffeeWeb?
I personally have little time for agents, and detest the staggering amounts of money being "earned" by these people, but in this world it is the norm. However, unlike Lukaku, Barkley hasn't spent the last two years talking about Champions League or unlike Ronald, hasn't spouted on about how famous he is, being spotted in Seville, and how Barca is obviously always going to be linked with him.
Also, Ross doesn't talk about 'the project' – he is an Evertonian.
Straight-talking Ronald will be off on his next project as soon as the Champions League Big Boy comes calling, mark my words... and I am one of those who has been backing him all season.
130 Posted 14/05/2017 at 10:44:08
At the end of the day, we as individuals can control what we do. For example, I've never bought The Sun I didn't need Hillsborough or Levenson to know how much shite is produced by snake-oil salesmen in the guise of journalists.
In the same vein, I can spot management bullshit when I see it, and how folks can be so easily manipulated. Manipulated by so-called 'pundits', even ones who once wore royal blue jerseys. Manipulated to the point of calling Everton players disloyal, or gobshites.
I can't not feel support for Everton it's in my blood, whether I like it or not. But I can choose not to contribute my time and money; I've got better things to do.
131 Posted 14/05/2017 at 10:44:57
132 Posted 14/05/2017 at 10:47:08
We all have our sticking points, and if this is yours then stick to your principles and ideals.
133 Posted 14/05/2017 at 11:00:47
Is Ken Buckley not signing a contract extension? Or has he been given an ultimatum by the TW editors???
134 Posted 14/05/2017 at 11:17:18
It's not possible to 'choose' not to maintain interest in Everton, but it is possible to choose to refocus time and money. That's all it is.
The media stuff is going just a bit too far for my tastes, and it's more a case of "can't be arsed" making an effort. I'll probably morph into a part-time Evertonian.
Revel in the good bits when they happen, and ignore the bad bits, especially the media shite. I'd already started by turning the sound off on MotD so I don't have to listen to drivel.
135 Posted 14/05/2017 at 11:22:52
Lyndon, get your people to talk to his people, asap.
136 Posted 14/05/2017 at 11:28:29
137 Posted 14/05/2017 at 11:33:45
138 Posted 14/05/2017 at 11:35:17
139 Posted 14/05/2017 at 11:35:25
Two that readily spring to mind is the selling of Bobby Collins who, the season after we sold him, was voted PFA Player of the Year. But probably even worse was the selling of Alan Ball to Arsenal. Both done by the man you thought Koeman would be like – Harry Catterick.
Also, you mention managers not talking to the press and again you cite Catterick as the paragon of virtue on this subject. Well, I guess you might not've read the story by the Echo sports reporter, I think it was Chris Yates. He got a call from Catterick asking him to go to Bellfield right away as he had a transfer coup for him.
This was unheard of so Yates goes to Bellfield were Catterick says the coup is not about Everton but about Liverpool. Catterick told the reporter Liverpool had signed Howard Kendall from Preston, which was untrue: he had already signed for Everton... but Catterick wanted to get one over on Shankly. So they all use the press from time to time to pedal their own stories.
140 Posted 14/05/2017 at 11:40:31
Everybody knows Ross has been offered a contract. Everybody knows he hasn't signed it. Koeman states the obvious. As opposed to being an article in the gossip column, it's in the news section.
I very much doubt anyone not associated with Everton could care less.
141 Posted 14/05/2017 at 11:47:51
It would be naieve to think that managers aren't political with egos, Catterick perhaps no exception. But I don't recall him dealing with confidential matters via public discussion leading to mudslinging against players. I'd rather all the political and business machinations be kept in-house, without giving us supporters repeated bum steers on matters we know little about.
142 Posted 14/05/2017 at 11:53:26
Maybe Koeman is being very clever, but if so it escapes me how. A lot of his utterances seem clearly unnecessary and unproductive. It's a bit of a media circus that looks naff.
143 Posted 14/05/2017 at 12:03:35
Koeman has to plan with or without Barkley for next season and financially the club will look to get money for him than walk away for nothing in 12 months. To be fair to Koeman, all he has been asked by journalists in his last 10/12 press conferences is what is happening to Lukaku and Barkley. And to be fair, he said that it's very much up to the player himself, but he said that Lukaku is slightly different because he still has 2 years left where Ross, in 6 months time, can speak to clubs and that can't be ideal.
Also, if he doesn't sign and we don't get the money we want, what terrible predicament that will be. Although I think, if that happened, Barkley would be under more pressure than the manager. Also, should he be in the squad if he runs down his contract? So, in the interests of all, a decision must be made quickly.
My final word on this is: Stan, you love Everton, so don't stop going the game. As I said earlier, there are many things I haven't agreed with the club. But our love for our club is the most important; players, managers and owners come and go but fans are here till death.
144 Posted 14/05/2017 at 12:06:30
How do people know Lukaku's agent hasn't been up front for the past 6 months and has agreed a deal for a move which both parties are satisfied, therefore there is no mention of a contract offer?
And how do people know Barkley's agent isn't a total prick who has reneged on a deal to make Barkley one of the highest paid players at the club and is demanding even more?
So before everyone jumps down the throat of the manager and club, I suggest they wait until they have all the facts.
145 Posted 14/05/2017 at 12:30:50
146 Posted 14/05/2017 at 12:34:51
"If the manager loved him that much he would be all over him, saying 'please sign this and that'. I just don't think he gets given that confidence and belief off the manager." Paul Merson.
I totally agree with this statement. In my opinion, Ross is torn between wanting to stay, because he is an Evertonian, and wanting to go, because of Ronald's treatment of him.
147 Posted 14/05/2017 at 12:37:31
148 Posted 14/05/2017 at 13:07:58
Who cares about his opinions?
149 Posted 14/05/2017 at 13:19:46
Everton have a player valued at upwards of £20M; they are trying to protect that value and stop Ross from doing a Stevie McManaman and walking out without Everton getting anything; they are also entitled to do that.
Let's see what happens.
Stan, I understand your frustration at these transfer transactions, it's only a spur-of-the-moment thing you are feeling. There are loads of things that Everton have done that have upset me, the worst being when Gary Speed was shat upon by the club and sold. Gary was big enough to say nothing about the affair even when he was booed every time he came back to Goodison as a player; I'll never forget that.
150 Posted 14/05/2017 at 13:49:52
Barkley is a good player but probably won't be the great player we had all hoped for. If he wants to be a better player, then he probably needs to move on to a club where his talents will be appreciated.
151 Posted 14/05/2017 at 14:11:30
152 Posted 14/05/2017 at 14:46:19
Stan, this is why I think it's all a bit over the top, because for me it's all much ado about nothing. If Ross signs, it's all been a fuss for no reason. If he doesn't, then Koeman is proved right in so much that, if Ross didn't intend to sign, why not just say?
I don't think it's about loyalty, from either side. But also I don't think we can say that the negotiations have been poorly conducted as we don't know what has happened behind closed doors. All we know is that a contract has been offered and as of yet it has not been accepted. Until the real story emerges, we should all refrain from accusing either party of poor conduct beyond what we know about.
153 Posted 14/05/2017 at 15:03:47
Should the same stipulation about 'knowing all the facts' prior to responding not then apply to a self-confessed 'out of the loop' manager who has repeatedly maintained he actively distances himself from contract negotiations between player and club, has said he has no knowledge whatsoever of what stage talks are at between the two parties, of the terms of any proposed deal (other than guessing that it's 'probably decent') or the player's actual intentions, other than him relaying, in a supposedly private conversation, an ambition to play in the Champions League some day?
After all, this is the guy who a few short months ago was pontificating that the most important thing in football is to "respect your contract" and, as long as you do that, then fingers cannot be pointed, yet now he's coming over all convenience store Vito Corleone when faced with the very prospect of a player (maybe) doing just that. The mark of a complete pro suddenly mutated into a cardinal sin in a couple of months?
"Michael, to honour your contract is the most important thing in football, but if you get too close to honouring it in full then I'm afraid the fucking gloves have to come off. Tell Luca Brazi to follow Barkley home and ring his doorbell before running away and... err... maybe yell 'fanny'... really loud... if he can find a bush close enough to take cover behind".
Something about that stance doesn't sit right with me, especially if you rewind 12 months to see what lyrics the guy currently giving it "Don't leave me hanging on like a yo-yo" was laying down back then, when the speculation was building over his own future and his readiness to sign a new deal:
“I don't see the need to take a decision at the moment. My contract runs on for another year anyway.”
It's not just the needless, heavy-handed attempts at applying public pressure on one particular player, but also the sheer hypocrisy of Koeman's stance that sticks in the craw.
154 Posted 14/05/2017 at 15:09:09
Not doubting you, John. Where did you see them statements?
155 Posted 14/05/2017 at 15:20:56
156 Posted 14/05/2017 at 15:26:54
Players know they can be sold at any moment; managers know they can be sacked. That leads to each party looking after their own interests before anything else I've no problem with that, short career for many of these lads.
Is Koeman a hypocrite? Absolutely. But Barkley & his representatives may also be acting the twat.
157 Posted 14/05/2017 at 15:31:04
158 Posted 14/05/2017 at 15:42:47
What treatment from Koeman are you referring to?
159 Posted 14/05/2017 at 15:42:57
160 Posted 14/05/2017 at 15:54:57
But folks haven't done that, instead mudslinging against Barkley has ensued. That's what's wrong with this, the inevitable mudslinging, which surely any experienced professional (which Koeman is supposed to be) knows is likely to happen when the wrong messages rather than the full facts are being relayed.
Now, you've just admitted, following John's argument based on facts, that Koeman is a hypocrite. But then you go on to say that Barkley and his representatives may be acting the twat. Not they are acting the twat, based on the facts, but that they may be. Trouble is, we know that they may or may not be acting the twat, that's just logic, the two logical possibilities. But there's no evidence that they are acting the twat, is there?
We should either not form any opinions, or restrict our opinions to the known facts. What we shouldn't do is form opinions on what might be the facts. So, as far as I can see, your statement that Barkley and his representatives may also be acting the twat cannot possibly add anything to a debate where opinions are formed from known facts.
161 Posted 14/05/2017 at 15:57:42
As Koeman says, "Dat ish voetbal".
Players and managers join us for a step up in wages/opportunity. If they do well, they get the chance of another step up. While they're here, they do their best to get the best deal.
We need to position ourselves as the club that's going places where you can get a game right now. If these players work out, we'll progress, hopefully quickly enough before they get their next move.
Koeman appears an ambitious, aggressive, inarticulate man who is impatient to do business as soon as possible. Good. That's what we need.
162 Posted 14/05/2017 at 16:03:13
But in the case of agents, players & managers and contract negotiations, it is applicable. I just don't get all this hand wringing on this issue. I'm sure they'll all be able to sleep very soundly tonight, no matter what the outcome is.
Paul T exactly.
163 Posted 14/05/2017 at 16:08:51
Yet, they may not be (as you say, we don't know the facts).
If they are, then they're at least doing so in private. So, at worst it's twattery concealed beneath a publicly professional veneer. Which is preferable to, and less damaging than, repeatedly acting the twat in public.
Surely, the prudent thing to do in such a situation, especially when high sums are at stake, would be to continue to work at it behind the scenes and keep your cards close to your chest in public, rather than vainly posturing and puffing it out at every opportunity.
Beyond not signing a new deal, that six weeks ago we were being told (by the manager) wouldn't even be on the table until this summer, what indicator is there of twattishness on the players part?
My point was a simple one, Kev. You said people should wait for the full facts to emerge before commenting on the situation. Yet, a manager who has openly and repeatedly admitted to not being armed with such facts when it comes to contract talks between the club and player (and who, again by his own admission, actually wants it that way), is firing off potentially needless and premature ultimatums about what will happen if said player doesn't sign a contract he supposedly knows jack shit about.
Koeman is the one who should be following your advice Kev, because a simple "no comment" or "we'll find out soon" would have easily sufficed until the summer. Instead his sloppy stirring of the shit pot has only served to escalate the situation and paint (perhaps unfairly) an Everton player, who has never uttered a word out of turn during his time at the club, as a probable 'contract rebel' in the eyes of many, instead of just one in the midst of normal negotiations.
164 Posted 14/05/2017 at 16:11:05
But at the same time, it looks shite when fellow blues start calling Barkley disloyal when really there's no apparent basis for it. It's not the end of the world to be sure, but sometimes this kind of nonsense can make you not be arsed. It looks wrong, and it's very tedious.
Surely there's enough scope for opinion based just on what we see on the pitch, without all the other shite.
165 Posted 14/05/2017 at 16:18:34
166 Posted 14/05/2017 at 16:34:31
Barkley is not in the same class as him as a playmaker; if we want to compete with these teams in the future, we need to sell Ross Barkley.
167 Posted 14/05/2017 at 16:38:57
Barkley is following his agent's lead. Koeman is the spokesman for the club's position. At this point, it's a contest to see who blinks first. The colour of the shirt is irrelevant.
168 Posted 14/05/2017 at 16:42:29
All good points you make.
One thing though. There's no "midst of normal negotiations."
It's been stated several times, including by Koeman, that the club have offered what they believe is a good deal and that's the only deal on the table. Small point I know but it IS a case of this deal or "no deal."
I'm not gonna speculate on the ins and outs of that but it's what's been said.
169 Posted 14/05/2017 at 16:44:04
We, as in Everton Football Club, pamper to these players left, right and fucking centre. We pay them millions and in return we are hopeful that they (a) turn up, (b) play with some passion and finally, (c) play to a level that we believe they are capable of.
No-one on here knows the facts, regarding Ross, but we are also not blind to how Ross plays on the pitch; additionally, we are also very much aware of local rumour and who is trying to fuck who off.
Koeman knows far more than all of us TW posters put together so, for me, he either wants the boy out of Everton or he wants him to sign his contract.
Now, from what I'm hearing and what I'm seeing, Koeman wants the boy gone. He probably thinks there are better options for the number 10 shirt and he feels that the sale of Ross will pay for the incoming transfer fee.
At the end of day, it is all about winning and silverware; and we've won fuck-all squared since 1995. We have been unlucky and we've had players pick up serious injuries, but then again we have also played some total shite football and been extremely lucky taking points from many a game.
Ross has played a big part over the past five years and we are still no closer to winning silverware, if Koeman wants to change things then that is how it will be.
170 Posted 14/05/2017 at 16:53:52
Apologies. Missed your post.
They're all things Koeman himself has said within recent months:
"Talks are planned. I don't think talks have started yet"
"I don't know if the contract is close but he is making progress [as a player] and that is good for him"
"I'm not involved in the negotiations but I know that the board is talking to his agent. I don't know what stage negotiations are at."
"We will offer him what is good, what is normal for the player"
His approach to 'management' in general:
"I have always kept well away from negotiations and money. I don't think I should be there to discuss that. Of course, the club informs me about the salaries of the players and they also ask me if a player should get a new contract or not, but that is it. Football coaches should be doing their work on the training ground. Here in England they call a football coach in charge of a club a manager, but I want to work with the players only every day."
That last one was from earlier this season, a couple of months after he became Everton boss.
171 Posted 14/05/2017 at 17:02:53
172 Posted 14/05/2017 at 17:04:37
173 Posted 14/05/2017 at 17:08:32
John, so he doesn't want to get involved in contract wrangles!
Can't see anything wrong with that myself; let him manage, highlight the players he feels he needs and let the board do the filthy lucre side of things.
I personally couldn't give a "Rat's Arse" if he leaves; another player will come along and fill the void.
It's the way of the footballing world, aka Rooney... and as far back as Alan Ball, the only player that really had me upset when he left the club.
Actually I was beside myself with grief for a good while as I was only 9 years old.
174 Posted 14/05/2017 at 17:12:35
Except you're actually missing the main bone of contention, which is the insertion of "by this (arbitrary) date" and the subsequent threat/promise to sell.
Instead, it's now a case of "this deal, by this date, or we'll make you disappear ('Jusss like that!')"
175 Posted 14/05/2017 at 17:14:44
Not doing a very good job of staying out of it so far then, is he?
176 Posted 14/05/2017 at 17:32:36
No, not missing the main bone of contention, which I believe is Koeman discussing it in public?
There should be no bone of contention over "this deal by this date" bearing in mind the time left on the present contract.
In fact "this deal by this date" makes for perfect common sense (bearing in mind the time left on the present contract). The club need to know so they can plan accordingly for moves.in the transfer window.
Though I fully agree with the dissatisfaction with Koeman making it public.
177 Posted 14/05/2017 at 17:35:14
C'mon, Ron, prove you are a top-four boss and stop hiding behind your playing capabilities. I'm half-hoping we have another embarrassing summer. it will be worth it to let Moshiri see Kenwright for what he is... because he obviously hasn't sussed his ineptitude yet.
I don't really mean that, of course; I want us up there as serious challengers... but it will never ever happen while Bill and his sidekick are still making the big calls.
178 Posted 14/05/2017 at 17:54:48
Perhaps the most significant is when it first surfaced, in the context of ,months and months of speculation in the tabloids about Barkley's future -- where had all that come from? Under pressure from those pesky journos, it really started back in December, when the club's position was: "We'll have talks on Barkley's contract in the New Year"
Professional, and true to their the word, there was nothing but glowing support for Barkley over the next three months... until the fateful press conference on 16 March, before the Hull game:
The manager was speaking at his press conference at USM Finch Farm today ahead of the weekend visit of Hull and was asked about Barkley's situation in the context of Romelu Lukaku's own unsigned contract.
He flatly rejected the insinuation that asking the player to commit to the club was tantamount to an ultimatum; rather, he views it as purely business.
“I think every situation is different,” Koeman said. “Ross is a boy from Everton and what we need to show to him is the best reasons to stay.
“His situation is different because next season Ross is running out the last year of his contract and it's normal in the football business that you make decisions at the end of the season.
“He needs to signs a new contract. If not, you need to sell the player,” Koeman concluded before stating that he did not know where the midfielder was in terms of discussions over a new deal.
Barkley would still be 24 if he left Everton as a free agent in the summer of 2018 so the club would be due a development fee set by arbitration but the compensation would pale in comparison to the transfer fee they could fetch for him this year.
"It's not an ultimatum," Koeman continued matter-of-factly. "It's normal, it's business. The player needs to understand this.
"I spoke to Ross about a new contract and, okay, it's up to the board to get that contract over the line and if not then, as a player, you see a new future for yourself. I think that's normal; it's not strange talking.
"At Southampton we had [Nathaniel] Clyne who did not sign a new contract and we sold the player. That's business. Yes, or no, it's a decision by the player and the player needs to understand that if he doesn't sign a new contract (if he has one year left), you need to make a decision for the club so the club knows what will happen next year.
"And that's normal business. That's not like an ultimatum. 'Ultimatum' is strong. I don't like that word, it's not like that."
Too my mind, the manager is being (and has always been) 100% professional in his position, stance, demeanour and logic on this matter. What I haven't tracked back to figure out is whether Barkley's reticence was already public knowledge at this point. But one story from a few days earlier in The Telegraph did have Koeman talking a little more openly than it seems you liked:
"We will do everything to keep Ross and (to get him) to sign a new contract. Talks are planned but I dont think they have started yet," said Koeman.
“I spoke to Ross about the future and like everybody he likes to win titles and play Champions League football, but he has still one more year contract, and we, at Everton, like to keep the best players and he has shown this season he is improving in different positions for the team. He is doing well.
“I spoke to the board about his situation, we like to bring and show the confidence that we have in the player to sign a new contract.
“What we can do is to show the best for him as a platform to grow and to improve as a player and the final decision is always by the player. I don't have any comments from his side that he likes to move or that will not sign a new contract, he hasnt mentioned that to me.
“He knows I want to bring him on, we show that every day. Everyone can see the team is improving and we are in a good way to be a strong side and that we can close the gap more now between the big clubs, like Tottenham did. That is exactly like what we would like to do.”
Koeman was asked if Everton is the best place for Barkley to develop.
“That is true, but that can be our opinion and the player, his agent and family can have a different opinion about this. I don't know.”
Yes, we can read a lot between the lines but really, nothing has changed in the last two months, has it? Now, did Koeman reveal too much in these early discourses? Especially considering the pressure of interest and speculation from the journos?
Sorry, I can't see it. Yes, you can moan as we all seem to about "the good old days" but this is 2017, and Harry Catterick is long gone.
Although I guess I would have one question: Why did he suggest that Barkley may not sign a new contract, even before talks had begun, apparently?
179 Posted 14/05/2017 at 18:03:41
By Giuseppe Labellarte, Reporter
Filed: Monday, February 13, 2017 at 13:00 UK
Last Updated: Monday, February 13, 2017 at 13:42 UK
Everton midfielder Ross Barkley has opted to delay putting pen to paper on a new contract as he considers his future at Goodison Park, according to reports.
The 23-year-old, who has played 26 games so far this campaign under new boss Ronald Koeman, will have only one year left on his current deal at the end of the season.
According to the Daily Star, Barkley is unhappy with being publicly criticised by Koeman in the press and is unsure whether he wants to continue playing under the Dutchman.
The England international is reported to be weighing up his options at the end of the season and interest from rival Premier League clubs is likely to increase in the highly-rated player.
Whatever your opinion of the paparazzi, that (to my jaundiced eye) probably came from the player's camp and not from the club... but who knows? The key fact here is that this whole business was well out in the public domain before any pronouncements from Koeman expressing his (sorry, Ron) "ultimatum".
Sorry, Stan – nothing but complete professionalism from the manager, in my book.
180 Posted 14/05/2017 at 18:08:01
What would be most helpful right now is Ross signing the ruddy thing.
181 Posted 14/05/2017 at 18:16:33
"I don't know if the contract is close but he is making progress [as a player] and that is good for him".
Yet another example. Never once has Koeman comfortably acknowledged what Barkley is or has done. Same qualified "Praise" every time. He talks like Barkley's in the U18s. He has from the start. This is what we have heard - fact.
This and his repeated contract threat is deliberate sly engineering of an "Out" for Barkley, not innocent, "Refreshing" Dutch bluntness. It won't have gone unnoticed by other professional players.
I wouldn't want to play for someone with that twattish attitude that's prepared to parade it in public. So Barkley's disloyal for not signing, some have said and implied?
Not exactly the best way to attract quality players to the club, I'd say.
182 Posted 14/05/2017 at 18:16:54
183 Posted 14/05/2017 at 18:31:08
But is public criticism part of complete professionalism? Or recommending Everton as the place for Barkley to develop, but the place for Lukaku to leave?
184 Posted 14/05/2017 at 18:52:33
Yes it will be down to money at the end of the day.
I thinks it's common knowledge that Barkley didn't like what the manager said about him and his performances to the press etc.
Koeman only said what lots of other football pundits (professional and amateur alike) have been saying for the last couple of seasons, all of which was true he needed to do more and improve his all-round game.
The previous manager did the arm-round-the-shoulder to death in my opinion the best player to come out of England since Gazza, future captain of England, and all that bollocks, and some believed it!
Ross is another player who believes he is worth whatever figure his agent plucks from the air. Because he is a homegrown lad, there are those who view Ross Barkley and his performances with rose-tinted glasse, in my opinion.
Koeman is correct; this is business. It's a two-way street, but with a slight difference; Everton FC are looking out for us (the supporters) and Ross Barkley and his people are looking out for him.
Ross, of course, can dig his heels in and sign nothing and wait; it wouldn't surprise me at all if this was the case.
185 Posted 14/05/2017 at 18:56:13
Koeman (when it suits him: Barkley, but not Lukaku whom he was sloppily waving off in the direction of a bigger club earlier this season); Walsh (from whom we have heard fuck all apart from some waffle at our Sky open day or whatever it was a few months ago); Kenwright (who seems to remain in charge but apparently had to ask Moshiri very recently whether we could afford to buy targets, as though this was something which was a lovely surprise see his awards dinner speech); Elstone (see Kenwright) ?
Which of them is it, or which combination? Perhaps Professor Barrett-Baxendale has a view, why on earth should she not? And let's not forget the Russian.
Perhaps it's a finely tuned operation behind the scenes and the chaos is for public consumption only, but I don't see what's completely professional about it.
186 Posted 14/05/2017 at 19:19:04
End of the day it all comes down to money. Players can go on and on in the press about wanting Champions League football and trophies but these come a distant second to the first priority, which is money.
100% guaranteed the players' agent couldn't give a toss whether his client is playing Champions League football or not, as long as he's already maxed out his earnings. Only reason he would care is that Champions League football would possibly allow him to negotiate higher image rights for his client.
Ross supposedly wants £100k/week, club is offering £70k + bonuses. Lukaku (and his agent) want a wage that we probably can't afford and if we could for him, would totally screw up the rest of our wage structure.
Easy decision for me: sell Lukaku, we can't afford his wage demands. If Koeman wanted Ross badly enough, the club would offer him the £100k/week I think. However, I'm not sure Koeman actually wants Ross that badly he'd probably prefer to buy someone else instead. A proper No 10.
Personally I'd understand Ross wanting to leave. Only live once and if we're offering £70k/week and another club is offering £100k+, then I'd also move.
All I hope is that both these dramas are sorted out sooner than later and don't drag on till August and distract the important transactions that Walsh and Koeman need to make in a couple of months time. Don't want a repeat of the Lescott saga from a few years back which ended with the panic buy of Bilyaletdinov and us pissing about £15m in transfer and wages down the drain (a big amount for us 6-7 years ago).
187 Posted 14/05/2017 at 19:38:47
Koeman has said that unless Barkley signs the contract in front of him, he will be sold. So far as I can see, he is incorrect in saying this, for the reasons I gave earlier, that being sold is only one of a number of scenarios consistent with Barkley not signing the new contract and having a year left on the existing contract. Barkley has a say in it, so it cannot be an ultimatum to him,mal though it comes across as an ultimatum from Koeman. Koeman could have said something different, consistent with contractual conditions. The fact that he did not is a concern, and in my opinion unprofessional. Why? Firstly because it does not appear to reflect the contractual situation, and secondly because it can lead folks to conclude (some comments on TW) that Barkley is being disloyal to Everton. Again, I have mentioned all this earlier.
Now, if this were an isolated incident, I probably wouldn't be writing this post to you. But it's a further example of Koeman apparently being less than professional. His comments about Niasse were the start, followed by his comments about Lukaku needing to leave Everton, plus his constant public 'assessments' of Barkley.
Now you might not find such comments unprofessional, but I do.
188 Posted 14/05/2017 at 20:16:05
The key fact here is that this whole business was well out in the public domain before any pronouncements from Koeman expressing his (sorry, Ron) "ultimatum".
Sorry MK, I'm struggling to see what a speculative story in the Daily Star is meant to prove or how it in anyway vindicates Koeman's handling of the situation.
What was out in the open? The length of time left on Barkley's contract? That's been known since he signed his last one. That he hasn't yet signed a new one? Same as the above. Barkley 'stalling' on signing a new deal back in February, a month before Koeman publicly stated he hadn't yet been offered one? Surely, that rather significant fact alone suggests a soupcon of bullshit sprinkled throughout the story you found?
Originally, talk was of Barkley being offered a new contract back in the summer of 2016. For whatever reason (managerial upheaval, a leisurely summer paddling in a blow-up pool, strict adherence to the slow moving, generally half-arsed Everton way of existence) the contract never materialised.
Fast-forward to December and it's common knowledge in the game that Barkley has 18 months left on his deal, yet there's no sign of a new one surfacing. No jobbing journo is going to need more than just that one simple red flag alone to start speculating as to possible reasons and far-flung eventualities.
Factor in public criticism of the player, new deals being readily handed out in the interim to such players as Darron Gibson, Gareth Barry, Mason Holgate, followed by Koeman then further compounding the situation by stating a new deal for Barkley was "not a priority" and could wait until the new year, and it's the tabloid equivalent of Chief Brody chumming off the back of the Orca. Predators were bound to get the scent of blood and come in for a bite.
You could go right back to the first season under Martinez and find plenty of press speculation about Barkley being primed for a future move to Man City, Spurs, whoever and looking to leave Everton. It was and is all just guess work. The fact a story has seen print doesn't mean there was anything at play beyond an empty page to fill or that Mulder wasn't a paranoid meff. ("The truth was already out there, Koeman just stripped it bare and held up it's keks.")
What we do know for a fact is Koeman said in December that a new deal was not a priority. That he followed this up a couple of months later with a claim that talks were planned for the summer, but had not yet started, before suddenly turning round and saying this shit needs to get sorted 'soon as', sign or we'll sell.
Why not just stick to the original script of 'it will all be sorted in the summer'? Why the sudden need to crank the pressure up a notch, in public?
Something changed? A serious suitor suddenly emerged? Maybe a stark realisation that Ross wouldn't simply have his crayola kissing any old contract as soon as it was plonked in front of him?
People will seek to fill in the gaps as they see fit, but if the first piece of your padding is the back page of the Daily Star then it's always going to be difficult to stop the grotty smell of a tramp's gouch getting in every nook and cranny of your narrative.
The press spin many a 'plucked out their arse' story that could serve to unsettle a particular player in a squad, yet most know to take it all with a pinch of salt. The manager should be dampening such potentially distracting speculation (especially while the season is still under way), not squirting lashings of lighter fluid all over it, looking around for a match and then theatrically threatening to strike the fucker.
Two months ago the situation was said to be a fairly simple one of Barkley being offered a fresh contract in the summer. He might sign, he might not. Now it has been escalated to Ross actively refusing to commit to a new contract and being given a couple of weeks to do so or get his coat.
That change in emphasis and urgency hasn't been planted by the press or any party other than the man currently in charge of Everton.
189 Posted 14/05/2017 at 20:44:26
I suggest that RonKo has had enough of waiting for a 23-year-old with 150 games under his belt and playing as the fulcrum of our attack to become professional enough to develop excellent consistency in such outlandish things as crossing the ball without hitting the first defender, getting a free-kick on target, playing an incisive pass instantly or even trying to win the fucking ball back when it's been lost in the oppo's half.
Occasional success in scoring against a naff keeper who fortunately had just put all his weight onto his wrong foot just doesn't cut it either, and especially so when a contract's on offer that should mean he'll never have to do some actual work of the sort most of us are used to.
Koeman will surely have said the major signings have to come in early July, and therefore he'll want to know well before that whether our occasionally good "No 10" needs to be replaced to go with the professional, consistently very good at least "No 10" I pray he and Walsh are seeking. That's being professional for the club and if it hurts the precious feelings of local-lad-can't-really-hack-it, so what?
190 Posted 14/05/2017 at 20:53:13
It comes out in the New Year (February) that Barkley is not inclined to sign a new contract, and a month later, still in the New Year, Koeman first talks of the ultimatum, exposing his understanding of Barkley's reluctance to sign a new contract.
The February story may be pure guesswork... but it fits with all that follows... No smoke without fire, Occam's Razor etc.
Two months ago the situation was said to be a fairly simple one of Barkley being offered a fresh contract in the summer. He might sign, he might not. Now it has been escalated to Ross actively refusing to commit to a new contract and being given a couple of weeks to do so or get his coat.
That is a poorly constructed mis-characterization as nothing has actually changed. Barkley likely started it all by expressing his unhappiness with Koeman, and letting someone know he was not inclined to sign any new contract (probably before one had even been put on the table). Koeman has been completely consistent in his (and, I believe, the club's) position: the New Year came, a contract was offered; Barkley has still not signed after ~2-3 months.
Nothing has changed from the beginning of this saga. Except for the misunderstanding and escalation of certain fans who seem to have it in for our "unprofessional" manager. Sorry, I don't buy it.
Seriously what do you expect the club to do? Don (#189) has it spot-on.
191 Posted 14/05/2017 at 20:58:51
Koeman said. "That's not the priority now. In the new year we will have talks about his situation and his future but the priority now is playing and winning and see what happens in January.
192 Posted 14/05/2017 at 21:07:21
a) Barkley has been offered a contract;
b) He hasn't signed it.
With that in mind, I'm not overly bothered if we sell the lad. He once had me thinking he had the football world at his feet but it turns out he also has shit for brains and a very small heart or stomach depending on your preference. Whether or not Koeman hurt his feelings is unknown and whether or not he is an Evertonian is irrelevant.
193 Posted 14/05/2017 at 21:22:54
No, I thought not you made it up.
194 Posted 14/05/2017 at 22:29:08
I can only speak for myself and can say I didn't make anything up. I just passed on what I was told recently while having a chat with a couple of well connected football people, who have connections at Everton and other clubs.
I'd bet they aren't far away.
195 Posted 14/05/2017 at 22:54:09
If they're "not far away" then they're doing exactly what the rest of us are doing, taking a guess!
196 Posted 14/05/2017 at 23:42:03
They would indeed be in the know, so I'll say it the way you suggest.
I bet they are right on the money happy now!
197 Posted 15/05/2017 at 00:28:29
I know what Koeman said in December about looking at Barkley's situation in "the New Year" as it wasn't a priority at that point. However, I could have sworn there was another interview, a couple of months later, in which he mentioned they would discuss a new deal "in the summer", but can't for the life of me find it, so it seems I must simply be getting mixed up and erroneously extrapolating from the interview on March 9th in which Koeman was still saying talks were "planned" but had "not started yet". I can't sift back any further trying to find something expressly stating 'summer' as i've got sore balls (honestly, I was hospitalized and everything).
Regardless (and moving hastily on), I've still got to take issue with your complete Stretch Armstrong of a calendar.
"The New Year came, a contract was offered"
It wasn't though, was it?
New Year suggests January to my mind. Not the third month after Chrimbo. Nobody would seriously suggest "the New Year" and 'mid-March' are the same thing. If the boiler in Castle Kenrick conked out on Boxing Day and the plumber said he'd be round 'in the New Year' but didn't bother rocking up to your... moat... until March, you'd be going ballistic and would have binned off waiting (and freezing your abominable arse off) months before. "The New Year"? 'Next year' more like.
Christ, Koeman saying talks were planned but had still not gotten under way, a little over two months before the season was due to finish, has got to be what planted the 'summer' seed in my mind. (Well, it's as close to the end of the season as it is to the start of the January transfer window anyway).
There certainly seemed no great urgency for the situation to be resolved on the gaffers part then, a whole nine weeks ago.
Yet, one week later (March 16), he'd gone from saying talks haven't even begun, straight to suggesting Barkley needs to sign or face being sold in the summer.
"There you go. Took us over three months to prepare that. I know we said [does that annoying air quote finger thingy] 'the New Year' but...what? You want to read it first? Well..err..ok. Fine. No rush Ross, no rush. Take your time. Big decision and all that. By the way, you've got until that joss stick burns out".
198 Posted 15/05/2017 at 00:39:38
How can you claim a statement that Koeman has publicly (and needlessly, in my opinion) turned up the heat by maintaining a decision must be made by a certain date otherwise the player will be sold (when two months ago he was saying talks had not even begun) is a "poorly constructed mischaracterization" of what has occurred in reality, but then immediately follow up (such a scandalous slight) with the assertion that "Barkley likely started it all by expressing his unhappiness with Koeman and letting someone know he was not inclined to sign any new contract (probably before one had even been put on the table)"?
There's not one iota of evidence to suggest that is actually the case and the entire statement is pure speculation on your part, from start to finish (which you're free to partake in of course, but let's not suggest there's any reasoned factual basis for it). It's tantamount to popping yourself down in front of the fire, in your favourite armchair, before sloshing a large slug of Pappy Van Winkle around a glass and conjuring up a totally superfluous back story to a simple Christmas card that just reads "Seasons Greetings, from Dave".
"Barkley likely started it all"? Seriously? I bet he gave Ronalds best toothbrush a run out round the rim of the bog as well.
199 Posted 15/05/2017 at 03:27:26
After this, he is asked in every press conference about Ross, eventually expressing his frustration about being continually asked.
I wonder, does anyone genuinely believe that the comments made were unfair or inaccurate?
Since then, his performances in general have improved, the manager has given him credit on several occasions, but not the Bobby-style gushing. But who else has the manager been showering praise on? Rom has been the subject of criticism and approval, depending on how he performs.
I think what we are seeing is a number of supporters who don't like the manager or his style and are using this story to beat him with, blowing it out of all proportion. I don't particularly like his personality but can separate that from disliking his conduct which personally I can't see anything wrong with.
If the argument was more based on the timing of the contract offer, I could see a point. Why wait so late? (Although I suspect the manager wanted to get a better idea of how good the player actually is...)
200 Posted 15/05/2017 at 04:26:15
I'd have imagined that he would have been looking for improved replacements for most players. So he signs a player to replace Barkley in the knowledge that he has both for at least one season or until the January transfer window or for the foreseeable future, can't he work with that?
So Everton miss out on the transfer fee if the contract is allowed to run down which may be the case if the player and/or his agent so decide. Are we so disadvantaged by FFP rules that we need to sell to buy?
If it is the case that it is down to the money on offer or how bonuses are triggered, then it reeks of a repeat of the Pienaar fiasco. Not a perfect scenario but then, this is Everton and how it's been run for the last 20-30 years.
201 Posted 15/05/2017 at 05:13:22
FFP means we can't go out and splash too big.
202 Posted 15/05/2017 at 09:08:19
I've supported Koeman from the start, and still do, and think he's done a good job in a number of respects, as many of my past posts say. (I'll leave you to do the barrister bit of checking those posts if you wish, because I can't be arsed looking back and pointing ones out.)
203 Posted 15/05/2017 at 10:35:06
Koeman's good and normal is obviously not the same as Barkley's good and normal. Bye bye Ross.
Anyone who thinks Barkley will see the final year of his contract out are kidding themselves. He signs or he goes. Guaranteed.
204 Posted 15/05/2017 at 14:25:38
Are you saying that we cannot afford or allowed under FFP (I'm not sure myself) to spend big unless we sell? If so perhaps the club could come clean on the matter, which is highly unlikely and understandable, and stop putting the blame on the player.
Neither though will do anything to encourage players to join Everton. Whatever, a second creative player would be most welcome.
205 Posted 15/05/2017 at 14:46:37
Ross's value could be as high s £30m if you believe the media, and in this day and age his worth won't be far off that, in my opinion. So Koeman's problem, if Barkley doesn't sign, is the possible loss of circa £30m to the club, of which Koeman is a major employee.
It's standard practice not to let a player with any decent value run down his contract to below a year. It's nowt to do with FFP in this instance, I don't think, it's more to do with common sense and good business sense.
Waiting until January has its pitfalls as there's not usually too many big transfers done during that window and if Barkley didn't go then the club would have kissed circa £30m goodbye! So putting him on the market during this summer's window is a no-brainer, should he not sign his new contract.
With regard to FFP, clubs can spend £5m more than they earn over an assessment period, usually three years on a rolling basis, if you know what I mean.
206 Posted 15/05/2017 at 15:09:52
As for being good business to sell a player who disagrees with a contract offer, I can understand your argument but wouldn't that depend on the reason he doesn't agree with the terms on offer?
For example, it has been stated in threads that he has been offered £100k but it may be £70k basic per week with bonuses of £10k per win and £20k per goal. Correct or not, do you think Schneiderlin, who I don't rate as good as Barkley, is on similar terms or such bonuses are in the offer to Lukaku?
We just don't know what the problem with the contract is.
207 Posted 15/05/2017 at 16:59:09
208 Posted 15/05/2017 at 17:54:30
It's good business to sell a player with only one year left on his contract, as opposed to letting the contract run down (if the player refuses to extend). That's the only point I was making.
I try not to get involved in the why's and wherefores, and the "he's on this much" and "there's bonuses involved" because, at the end of the day, none of us know who's on what or what's been offered, and to be honest none of us probably ever will.
I take all the figures bandied about with a huge pinch of salt coz it's all guesswork and conjecture or it comes from a "reliable source who's in the know", which amounts to much the same.
The bottom line is, "is the player going to extend, bearing in mind he has only a year left on his contract?" If the answer's no, for whatever reason(s) and those reasons can't be resolved, then sell.
209 Posted 15/05/2017 at 22:17:09
Then Crooks says that Barkely has an out in the shape of (Crooks's old club) Spurs.
Well, Garth, Evertonians like me utterly love the prospect of Ross becoming an Everton legend. We genuinely do.
What you are overlooking is that us Evertonians see Barkley stop not just applying himself but wandering around like his attention is anywhere but in the same football ground as him and his teammates.
Here, Garth, is a serious lump of fact for you to chew on: Ross Barkley presently lives amongst his loving family here on Merseyside... Do you seriously believe that his application (which REALLY is his major shortcoming) will improve beyond all recognition alone in the South East??? Away from his family???
Tom Davies Mum gives him a lift to work. That arrangement seems to be paying dividends.
210 Posted 16/05/2017 at 05:10:16
We probably agree but are coming at it from different directions. I love the where-fores and why-have-yous, the known and unknown unknowns. I've followed Everton all my life (so far) and for me it goes further than just what happens on the pitch.
I still long for the early morning knock on the door, taxi at the ready, asking if I'm available for a managerial position.
Note; must brasso that knocker and get the doorbell fixed.
211 Posted 16/05/2017 at 05:32:39
Not a direct case of FFP bring the issue, but a contributing factor. Moshiri can't go all Arabian prince and buy willy nilly he needs to work within financial restrictions. So it makes business sense to sell now rather than keep and getting playing benefit.
Thats not even thinking about potential issues with having a dissatisfied player in the squad. I have currently no reason to question Ross's professionalism, but from my experience it's not helpful having a team member who knows they are counting down the days!
212 Posted 16/05/2017 at 06:02:45
As for the FFP, I notice that the figure for the new shirt sponsorship is the same as the BBC website gives as Everton's transfer kitty which seems rather similar to the outlay that was covered by USM's sponsoring Finch Farm.
As for dissatisfied players, what price do you put on Lukaku? No, no, seriously.
213 Posted 16/05/2017 at 19:59:34
Barkley simply maintains a dignified silence and gets on with the game.
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