The Madness must End!

Jim Wilson 09/11/2017  158 Comments  [Jump to last]

I have always believed that, in any company, everything starts at the top.If the directors are shite, it will be shite all the way down.

Since Bill Kenwright took over, we have had nothing but at best a frustrating time. Every managerial appointment has been sub-standard and possibly worse each time. And I haven't forgotten our two or three skirmishes with relegation under Moyes and all the depressing Anfield defeats, other hammerings and abysmal cup exits.

I don't care about a ground move – I just want a decent managerial appointment. Someone with common sense who knows how to get the basics right.

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You get criticised for suggesting Sam Allardyce, Martin O'Neill, Tony Pulis (or even David Jones) but these managers have proven experience in the Premier League.Like someone else on here has said, the successful foreign managers only do it with incessant spending of money and, when Leicester City came along a couple of years ago, they hadn't a clue how to compete with them. The whole Premier League never learnt from the Leicester experience and it's back to spend, spend, spend.

And here we are – after millions spent, we are a complete mess of a team. It is alarming to see how bad our team is. Koeman destroyed all the cohesion, understanding, pattern of play and team spirit we had in little over a year with constant changes to the team and formations and then an influx of unnecessary players.

He even had the cheek to criticise Ross Barkley, almost making the lad freeze on the pitch, and then he made it clear he didn't give a monkey's if he left and some Evertonians fell for it and sided with him, instead of our local lad. He got his replacement in Sigurdsson and he wrecked his game after only a few weeks. It shows how well Barkley coped with Koeman's shite – no wonder he wanted to leave. Davies was going in the same direction too.

All we needed in the summer was a decent enough forward, after Lukaku, who was prepared to run and work hard for the team and it would have done wonders for the side... pls a realistic replacement for Coleman. A spend a lot smaller than Koeman's spend. Who in their right mind would want to make wholesale changes to the team that beat City 4-0 last season? But, yet again, some Evertonians fell for it and were drooling over the summer signings... but look were we are now.

I must admit I find it hard to stomach Allardyce coming here; off the field antics, dourness etc... but, when you compare him to the foreign managers, he looks good. Allardyce and Pulis are labelled 'dour' but whoever wants to play against a Tony Pulis team? Why? Because there's a good chance you won't win because his team will be organised and full of running, closing the opposition down (the same with Allardyce). Maybe the clubs they have been at are dour and, at a club like Everton, they would have the chance to show more flair. Simeone? You're having a laugh.

Let me make it clear: install a foreign manager who knows nothing or very little about the Premier League and, in our position, we are down. They are clueless and all they want to do is spend money on the so-called best players. It is nice to have money but only to sign a player when absolutely necessary.

Howe, Dyche, Unsworth – all a gamble; not enough experience – we need sure fire, but I would prefer them to the foreign mercenaries. In 1984, no-one thought we had the best players but they became the best because of hard work, team spirit and a manager who eventually recognised the strength in playing a settled team with a settled formation with balance.

You hear the "It's a different game today" argument. It's faster. I have never seen faster football than those mid-eighties derbies and games against Bayern Munich and the semis we were in etc. It was much more physical then, too.

I have always wondered what it would have been like if we had appointed Martin O'Neill to be our manager 15 years ago. We will never know, but I'll bet any money we would be in better shape than we are now. I bet we would have won an Anfield derby and probably some kind of trophy. He has common sense, a personality, positivity and he would have galvanised this club.

People should realise that the potential, the pedigree, the stature, resources and support this club has should ensure a decent position in the Premier League, good performances at difficult grounds, and the odd trophy if an average manager is in charge. But incredibly, Kenwright keeps appointing below-average fools.

Then we have the madness of the ground move, King's Dock, Tesco Kirkby, Bramley-Moore Dock. And yet again, some Evertonians fall for it. Why oh why would anyone get excited when Kenwright is involved?

Before all the usual suspects start slagging me off, don't bother. I've heard all the fancy comments, all the "Wake up and smell the coffee" comments before. I see where we are, I can't be arsed with all the shite talk anymore, all the foreign names, all the "We need money, and lots of it". All the "Jags is shite, Baines is finished, Coleman's not good enough" (when it was the manager who wasn't good enough)...

I just want a basic common-sense manager who will use all the massive resources this club has (such as Kieran Dowell, for example) and stop messing around with silly ideas, like trying to copy Man City, Chelsea and Man Utd (who caused all this nonsense). Just try and copy what Leicester did 2 years ago and it will be a lot cheaper too. And the club comes first, no building 'my team' shite.

Give me a good manager over money anytime. The madness must end.

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Reader Comments (158)

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Stan Schofield
1 Posted 09/11/2017 at 15:35:42
Jim, there's a lot of sense in what you say. No messing about, just a good manager to make us hard to beat, with the (very) occasional trophy. If it were still a purely BK regime, I'd agree with you 100%.

However, it's no longer a purely BK regime, and in all likelihood Moshiri calls the shots. There's more money now. Of course, the spending so far doesn't look too good, and the first high-profile £6M/year manager wasn't great. But when there's new money, progression isn't likely to be in one or two seasons.

No doubt there'll be another high-profile manager, on over £6M/year, and further big spending on players. There will have to be, otherwise Moshiri and the board won't be delivering on what they said 18 months ago, about endeavouring to get us competing with the big clubs at the top table.

It's clear that to be at the top, and sustain it, big money is needed. Yes, there's the occasional Leicester, but that's a flash in the pan, unsustainable. Moshiri wants to be in the Champions League, and consistently, so will spend to achieve that.

Of course, there's no guarantee of Moshiri achieving that aim, but it's far more likely than if we settle for a 'no-nonesense' manager of the likes of Allardyce.

We achieved what we did in the 60s because of money (we were the 'cheque-book' team), and in turn the 80s success had its roots in that, via Kendall. If we wish to win trophies, not just to compete around mid-table, money, and lots of it, will need to be spent. It's not the only ingredient for sustained success, to be sure, but it's necessary.

Jeff Spiers
2 Posted 09/11/2017 at 15:41:31
Jim, can only echo everything you say. Nuff said
Jay Harris
3 Posted 09/11/2017 at 15:54:08
Jim,
Im sorry but I cant agree with a word you said.

Allardyce and his ilk are dinosaurs. Anybody worth their salt can get a team organised and hard to beat. That was Moyes ( who was the best of the dinosaurs IMO) problem. He instilled a team spirit second to none,get us organised and hard working but he couldnt handle big players with big egos.

Whether we like it or not the best players will usually come out on top and the best players cost money and need professional management of the highest level.

That is why the likes of Ancelotti have won the CL three times and why Guardiola has won so much.

Are you honestly telling us you would sooner have Allardyce than an Ancelotti or Guardiola.

I do not want to be or settle for second best or overachieving plucky little Everton. I want us back at the top of the table competing for championships and cups and having a realistic chance of winning them.

It wont be easy and it may take a few years but a top class manager will get us safe this season and build for the future. Allardyce may get us safe this season but take us back years.

Dinosaurs are extinct.

Ian Burns
4 Posted 09/11/2017 at 15:59:51
Jim, this is a really well written article and I feel your frustration, long term agony if you like. I don't agree with every point made, having said that there is many a good point in your article.

If you put your article and sit alongside Stan's excellent response - 1 - then I think that just about covers all points raised and answered.

One thing I would agree on though and that is the manager. Moyes stayed too long; Martinez was not a good appointment neither was Koeman and I say this as somebody who said so at the time, not in retrospect. We didn't need so many number 10's has been stated by so many so often in recent weeks but you are right; a striker and replacement for Coleman and a damn good manager and we would be up there were we belong. It doesn't have to be a foreign manager, just somebody who understands EFC, understands the EPL and somebody to whom the players would want to play for.

Mick Davies
5 Posted 09/11/2017 at 16:03:29
"Koeman destroyed all the cohesion, understanding, pattern of play and team spirit we had in little over a year with constant changes to the team and formations and then an influx of unnecessary players"

Erm, much as I wanted Koeman out, I'm struggling to remember when this cohesion, understanding, pattern of play and team spirit was in evidence?

Len Hawkins
6 Posted 09/11/2017 at 16:10:32
Pulis?? He'll be available soon, he doesn't have the same influence since he left his WWF defenders wrestling at Stoke.

If Moyes makes you feel suicidal then Pulis is almost as life threatening. And it would cost a fortune in baseball caps.

Lawrence Green
8 Posted 09/11/2017 at 16:11:54
If Everton want to compete at the top end of the table they have to spend money and lots of it on the top players who can perform in that rarified atmosphere, match in match out. Of course the manager has to be practical but that isn't enough, he also has to have a vision on how to set up a team to win in any circumstances against any opposition in any competition.

Martin O'Neil, David Moyes, Tony Pulis, Mark Hughes et al can all produce a team that is functional and able to win the odd big match here and there but can any of them really compete at the top end of the league week in week out?

Koeman was a massive let-down as he too was merely a Dutch version of those British managers mentioned above but without the practicality of those men. Martinez was interesting but failed to address his own defensive lack of nouse and paid the price, thankfully Everton FC managed to dump him before he could get us relegated.

Where we go next as a club and who the board choose as their next long-term manager will depend upon what their collective ambitions are for the club. If they are truly happy with regular top ten finishes without making a dent in the European competitions that they may qualify for in the coming years then they will settle for the practical, knows the Premier League type of manager.

If however, their ambitions are to crack the top six or four on a regular basis, they will have to attain the services of a top European coach or take a risk on a British manager who doesn't conform to the Hughes', O'Neill's et al school of management, of course either of those choices aren't risk free, but risk aversion is not the way to break into the top six or four.

Brave and bold decisions are required and like it or not a potful of money is a requirement too. I was there in the 1980s, the game was entirely different and so was the make up of most of the top clubs, it was probably more enjoyable to be a fan and a player in that era. What worked then may not work at all nowadays as it's harder to attract players from any Premier League team nevermind the teams who you are trying to match or overtake.

If Everton can manage to retain their best players over a sustained period of time and improve the standard of those who play alongside them, they may have a chance of seeing success. If Everton settle for the situation as it is and as it has been for far too long then there'll be no need to worry about who our opponents will be in any Champions League draw for another decade.

A manager is very important to any succesful team but not as important as having a side packed with very good players.

Thomas Lennon
9 Posted 09/11/2017 at 16:17:44
Have a look at your list of manager you are suggesting are good enough for us. Not one consistent winner. Then have a think about all those foreign managers who you observe spend lots. Winners.

I think what you are suggesting is that we shouldn't aim high. Rubbish! Perhaps so until we get over this sticky patch but then - no.

Koeman was tasked with getting us in the top 4. You don't do that with two big immobile lumps who cant pass at the back, a couple of quick cloggers in midfield and a big immobile lad up front - for that you get mid-table.

Unfortunately, we have been caught out in transition to what we hope will be a top 4 team. We failed to get three of four crucial players in while removing the big lump up front and seeing the decline of two/three good centrebacks. The resulting pressure on the rest of the team has seen a huge loss of belief. The house of cards has fallen but the direction was right, the execution fell short. Koeman needed another summer, the next manager will too. I fully expect spending to resume to at least the levels of last summer.

Si Turner
10 Posted 09/11/2017 at 16:37:12
I also don't agree a defensive experienced British Manager is the answer.

Show me the recent trophies from someone with that profile?

In my view we need to be patient in looking for a long term manager who can attract top players and use the talent we have already to develop a well balanced and consistent team. The cost for bad recruitment of managers and players is high so we need to get it right and not jump to a nejerk reaction.

If that means keeping Unsworth in post until we have found the best manager, I am happy to wait.

Jay Woods
11 Posted 09/11/2017 at 18:17:22
The point is we need to survive before we can think about appointing a world beater.

I think a lot of us have lost sight of the shocking condition the team is in.

Was last weekend's freaky, once-in-a-decade comeback win really that stupefying?

Sure, Allardyce as manager repulses me as much as it does everyone else, but we can't think of anything beyond avoiding the drop at present.

Steve Hogan
12 Posted 09/11/2017 at 18:41:17
Jim, I enjoyed your article and share your anger and frustration, but honestly, your recommending we go for Pulis,the anti-christ of football. I have a mate who is a Stoke season ticket holder, and they were begging him to go at the end.

Also, your opinion that all foreign manager's can only operate on a substantial transfer fund is simply not true. For example Raniera at Leicester, and more recently Silva at Hull (whomhe very nearly kept up) after being dead and buried at Xmas.

The same guy is doing a pretty good job at (big spending) Watford. If their first choice goalkeeper hadn't been injured on Sunday, my feeling is they would have gone on to win the game.

Initial selection and choice of manager, british or foreign is simply everything, when Pottechino first came to Southampton, he certainly didn't have a big budget, but Spurs stepped in and snatched him, the rest is history.

Still enjoyed your article though..

Alan Bodell
13 Posted 09/11/2017 at 19:12:05
Jim, most of this you wrote makes sense and I agree with but I am fucking sick to death of fellow Blues constantly giving Kenwright what I consider Blue on Blue.
He could have sold us out many times before Moshiri got the final nod, grass is always greener isn't it ?
Mike Allen
14 Posted 09/11/2017 at 19:14:57
We are still living in the past. Our days as one of the big boys have gone, the European ban may have been to blame for some of that. I think, for what it's worth, it took a heavy toll on this club; however, like it or not, Kenwright and Moyes stabilised the club. Maybe it was not what us older chaps were used to football-wise but the club seemed to be stable.

Some of you guys may know a lot more inside stories than me but I don't get this knocking of Kenwright. He got Moyes – most of us wanted this up-and-coming manager; he was taken in by Martinez as again, most fans were for a time... and Moshiri by all accounts brought in Koeman. So two errors of judgement – let's not go down the same road.

I don't think Moshiri is a football guy; I think he is on a commercial venture. Hope I'm wrong but a Hicks-type foreign manger and players in, as most clubs, with a foreign owner to sell the "product" worldwide.

To get back to our type of manager, Moyes, Pulis, Dyche, Big Sam, and Unsworth etc would not have assembled this type of squad... so a big, big task but that is the type of manager we need.

Jim Wilson
15 Posted 09/11/2017 at 19:22:04
Jay Woods - spot on mate. Anyone who went the game last Sunday should be alarmed at the state our latest foreign manager left the team in (and most Evertonians were happy with Koeman up until a few weeks ago) and we want to get another one! The names I mentioned haven't turned a good team into a shite one, they improve them. Given our resources they could improve us a lot. We do still have a lot of good players. And if memory serves me right O'Neill won a couple of cups with Leicester which is a lot more than we've done in 20 years.
Ian Hollingworth
16 Posted 09/11/2017 at 19:38:34
Lot of sense in there Jim.

Basically we won't move on until Kenwright is moved out.

You all know what is going to happen, they will just let it drift with Unsworth in charge. If he makes it to the summer, great, but most likely if we are still in trouble in Jan they will go running for Big Sam.

Graham Fylde
17 Posted 09/11/2017 at 19:43:27
I like the irony there Jim, . 'the successful foreign managers only do it with incessant spending of money and, when Leicester City came along a couple of years ago, they hadn't a clue how to compete with them'

That'll be the Leicester City with a foreign manager who spent next to no money?

Andy Crooks
18 Posted 09/11/2017 at 19:56:28
Jim, there are talented managers, lucky mangers, managers in the right place at the right time. I find your dismissal of " foreign" managers as a bit blinkered. We need to strike lucky.
Jim Wilson
19 Posted 09/11/2017 at 19:58:53
Like I said Graham I'm sick of the smart arse comments.
Do you know what talking in general is?
We are in deep shit and I for one am in no mood for the funnies.
Darren Hind
20 Posted 09/11/2017 at 20:00:31
I can think of several things worse than playing against Allardyce, Pulis or O'Neill teams . .Watching them regularly would probably be the main one
Jim Wilson
21 Posted 09/11/2017 at 20:00:55
Andy - We need to strike lucky.
Our fortune is now a roll of the dice instead of a safe pair of hands.
Come on!
Andy Crooks
22 Posted 09/11/2017 at 20:13:24
Honestly, Jim, it is. Cleverly's penalty miss might make Unsworth the man. It's conversion could have changed our history. That is what the margins are. There is no such thing as a safe pair of hands.
Stan Schofield
23 Posted 09/11/2017 at 20:15:50
Jim, like you, I can't be doing with shite on the pitch and bullshit off it. To me, it's mainly about money. Not just these days, but also 50 years ago. Our best teams of all time were there because of the money. You don't attract the likes of Alan Ball without it.

I don't want to hear the board, or the manager, telling us we're going to play better. I just want the board to act, to spend the money necessary to get the best, both manager and players.

Tony Everan
24 Posted 09/11/2017 at 20:16:14
Jim , As regards summer transfers you are dead right , just replace Lukaku with the best we can get and get a proper right back.

Sounds simple, and to a well run club it would be!

As far as Allardyce, Pulis , David Jones etc give me a break. They are all bang average managers or below. Please don’t settle for that , I want some optimism left in my heart.

Brian Harrison
25 Posted 09/11/2017 at 20:20:08
Jim

When as you say Leicester surprised the foreign coaches maybe thats because they were coached by another foreign coach Claudio Ranieri. The last English manager I think to win the league was Howard Wilkinson.

Apart from Alex Ferguson every manager that has won the Premiership has been foreign. As for Allardyce or Pulis you are definitely having a laugh. These 2 have won nothing, they are what I call survival managers. Yes they may keep teams up but they don't have a clue how to get these teams into the top half of the league.
Also name me a youngster that either Allardyce or Pulis brought from the youth team into a first team and become a regular. Both these guys buy the same sought of journeymen players they may get you to safety but thats it. Now if thats your ambition for our club then fine.
But for the money I pay as a season ticket holder I want a team that trys to play the game as it was meant to be played, not what Allardyce and Pulis serve up week after week.

Dave Abrahams
26 Posted 09/11/2017 at 20:29:51
Stan (23), have a look at the 1970's and 1985 teams, there was just as many local lads and players who didn't cost the earth as there were big money buys.: Wright, Hurst, Labone, Royle, Morrissey, Temple, Husband in 1970. Followed by : Southall, Ratcliffe, Mountfield, Van den Hauwe, Sharp, Gray, Reid, Sheedy, Harper, Richardson. Just to name a few.
Jim Wilson
27 Posted 09/11/2017 at 20:37:47
Tony 24, I notice you didn't mention O'Neill. He is my choice but he is not even on the radar.
The others I was just saying are better than most of the other names banded around and would keep us up. Some of the others wouldn't.
Jason Pullen
28 Posted 09/11/2017 at 20:38:27
Jim, you put forward your view but tell people who appose it not to bother? Hmmm. There is usually a reason people say that.
David Currie
29 Posted 09/11/2017 at 20:38:48
Eddie Howe if Unsy does not get more time would be the best option, he is a good coach and his teams play good football. He has done very well at Bournemouth and proves you don't need to play the Pullis or fat Sam style to stay up. He would give our young players the chance to develop and pick balanced teams. He is young and hungry we would be a good fit for him.
Dave Abrahams
30 Posted 09/11/2017 at 20:39:27
Sorry, see above I don't think Temple fits into the 1970's team but Colin Harvey certainly does.
Jim Wilson
31 Posted 09/11/2017 at 20:44:43
Brian, 25, so do I mate but look whats happened we brought in a foreign manager that people rated, he spent millions and we are in the shit! Can't you see the folly?

There is nothing to say O'Neill wouldn't have us playing good football and winning. We have the players we just need common sense management. It's a simple game, good football comes with continuity, hard work and team spirit not because a manager says 'I want good football'.

Stan Schofield
32 Posted 09/11/2017 at 20:50:15
Dave@26: Yes, totally, of West, Wright, Wilson, Kendall, Labone, Harvey, Husband, Ball, Royle, Hurst and Morrissey, (sub Darracott), half-a-dozen were local or otherwise came through the youth system. But we could attract the best, and retain the best. Not many, if any, of those locals/youth were sold.

We need to combine our tremendous youth system today with wealth to buy and retain the best. Otherwise the likelihood of getting to and staying at the top is next to sod-all.

John Hammond
33 Posted 09/11/2017 at 20:51:35
The names you suggest are pretty dire. O'neill's last Premier League job was almost taking Sunderland down in 2013. Allardyce would be a deeply unpopular choice (just have a look at the ToffeeWeb poll) while Jones last managed in the league back in 2004, getting Wolves relegated. As for Tony Pulis, his team are currently below us and he's possibly on the verge of losing his job.

No matter who we get in as manager it'll be a risk. Just because someone has Premier League experience doesn't mean they'll be a success. Just look at Moyes. Marco Silva had no experience but he did brilliantly at Hull considering the position they were in and if he'd had a few more games may well have kept Hull up.

Brian Denton
34 Posted 09/11/2017 at 20:55:39
Stan, I don't think Darracott was ever sub when that team was playing. He appeared in the first team later. Up until then he was just a name and a face in the team photographs in Shoot etc, like Geoff Barnett.
Stan Schofield
35 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:00:54
Brian, I'll have a look at some old programmes I've got from then.
Laurie Hartley
36 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:02:51
It was game of you to post this article Jim - I admire you for doing so.

I think any one of those common sense managers that you mention would have done better with the £140m spent this summer.

It has been said, and certainly seems the case to me, that the players confidence has been shot. Going by the sound bites they appear to want to play for David Unsworth.

The question is can he build their confidence back up by picking the right players in the right positions, and setting them up properly for each game? That is what the players will want regardless of who the manager is and where he comes from. And they will figure the answer out pretty quickly.

Jim Wilson
37 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:04:48
John 33, I don't think the names are dire but our situation is, And it is the result of appointing the attractive bright young foreign manager Koeman who spent millions to make us dire!
Jim Wilson
38 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:07:21
Thanks Laurie and I totally agree with you
Will Mabon
39 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:12:58
Reading and thinking about this thread reminds of something that first occurred to me in Martinez' second season. When his much-improved attack started to give way to negatives in defence, I wondered at a two-man team, with Moyes back and alongside him. If we'd continued and improved upon season one, we might've had a somewhat different recent history - particularly with the later extra investment.

I know there are specific coaches for defence and attack and so on, but I wonder if in the future, the leading role may become two leading roles. The potential for disagreement and complexities is there of course, but perhaps in the future, PL team management may require more than is usually within the scope of one man.

Perhaps this was mentioned before around the time, when I was an infrequent reader of TW.

Stan Schofield
40 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:14:53
Jim, Koeman turned out to be shite for us. So Moshiri will no doubt have another go, and keep on until it comes good. That's the risk you take of aiming higher.

We could see that the players being bought in were OK but not outstanding before the season started, and the lack of a striker etc. The buying looks shite to mediocre. So we'll have to have another go at it.

And we'll have to spend enough to attract the best, not just middling players like Liverpool and Spurs have done in the past, wasting millions. And we need to retain the best. It's the only way to reach the top.

Stan Schofield
41 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:18:55
Will, my mate said exactly that to me when we were leaking goals under Martinez: We need two managers, Moyes for defence, Martinez for attack. I can't remember what he said about the midfield.
John Hammond
42 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:21:50
Jim, Koeman isn't 100% to blame for the situation we're in. The very British Steve Walsh, transfer market genius, is just as culpable along with our British owners.
Steve Ferns
43 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:23:34
Jim Wilson, the game isn't just faster today (compared to the 80s) it's 2 or 3 times faster. The distances the players run these days is extraordinary. The reason you may well think the game is faster back then is that the ball travelled faster as it was often aimlessly punted down field. Lots of the game in those days was played at walking pace. Maybe not where the ball was, but in other areas of the pitch.

The biggest difference today compared to then, is the number of players within 30m of the ball. The game has dramatically changed. Everyone is so much fitter. They all have to run all game long. They all need to have a certain proximity to the ball. All the players bar the centre-backs are supposed to be in constant motion.

Management has also changed dramatically. Take Harry Redknapp he epitomises the approach of the English manager from the 90s and before. Rafael Van der Vaart summed it up when actually trying to praise his approach:
"There are no long and boring speeches about tactics, like I was used to at Real Madrid. There is a clipboard in our dressing room but Harry doesn't write anything on it! It's very relaxed. The gaffer gives us the line-up 20 minutes before we go out to do our warm-up."

"And the only words he speaks to me are 'You play left or right, work hard, have fun and show the fans your best. Then the defenders get an instruction about who to mark at corners and free-kicks - and that's it."

This approach of manager is outdated. They are done. So is Big Sam and his pro zone stuff that changed everything in the 90s, he's now 10 years behind. Pullis has an old-fashioned approach to the game that some struggle to deal with.

What we need is a coach. Someone who will have analysers making dossiers on the opposition, who will know the opposition inside out, who will tailor his side to counter the main threat of the opposition but balancing it against playing to our own strengths.

Koeman spent £200m on players. A good manager should be able to organise this into a side. He should be able to devise tactics that can put the right players in the right positions to exploit weaknesses in the opposition.

Everyone goes on about pressing these days. It's not just about pressing. There's three different ways to press. You have to press in such a way that it goes hand in hand with what you want to do when you get the ball. That you have the right players to win the ball, who are also the right players to attack with the ball and organising them into the right positions to do this.

Training is all about rehearsing movements. Making things that look instinctive happen because it's be drilled into the players so that they do it without thinking. When players move in certain ways you can create rapid passing between lines and cut through opponents creating overloads and clear goal-scoring opportunities.

Where is a british coach who even understands this, let along can play like this, train like this, and develop a side like this. Howe plays good football, but his teams don't press well enough, and they certainly don't defend well enough. Dyche can defend but cannot find the balance to allow for enough attacking opportunities over a consistent basis. Allardyce and Pullis haven't a clue. They'd rather yell at players and try and win a free-kick. Unsworth is an unknown quantity, he knows the coach speak, he's obviously been to the classes, but too little intelligent debate happens in English football to see who actually knows what they're talking about, let alone how to coach a side to do it.

The game has changed Jim.

Ash Moore
44 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:23:52
We're pushing twenty five years of mediocrity now. If you've got the energy to get upset about it you've more stamina than I. Orwell made the point that nobody is mad or insane; just in a minority of one. And getting frustrated at Kenwright makes you feel just that. You're in a minority of one.

They should change the club motto from nil satis to "it is what it is".
Brent Stephens
45 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:28:59
Steve "What we need is a coach. Someone who will have analysers making dossiers on the opposition, who will know the opposition inside out, who will tailor his side to counter the main threat of the opposition but balancing it against playing to our own strengths".

That's interesting. Do you have any feel or feedback that Unsy is such an analytical coach? Does that, in part, explain his success with the U23s? And maybe is why he would need time with the first team to get that intelligence in place?

Kunal Desai
46 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:36:33
I'll tell you what you need at the top, a strategist(s). Someone or somebody that clearly have a master plan in place with a defining strategy of how to accomplish those aims season upon season.

We have had a man at the top of this club for twenty odd years who hasn't a clue and fumbles his way forward every season, that's why we haven't achieved anything tangible under his ownership. You need someone who will want to tick each milestone off, i.e. i've now reached objective C and I now am going to set the boundaries and plans for objective B. There is simply no clear structure at the club.
Sadly for the club there is going to have to be more stepping stones before we can make serious strides forward, personally I believe that starts with Moshiri buying out Kenwright and the remainder of those board. Get a new board of directors with a clear plan and vision in place. Remove Kenwright asap, he's taken the lazy option in the past bringing in the likes of Moyes and Martinez. That's not a sign of a man who wants to move the club forward.

Moshiri must conduct a very deep thought out interview processes with candidates to understand and gauge if a potential manager is best fit for the job, not just offering obscene amounts of salary or a popular name from the past through playing days, but ensuring he himself is well knowledged on the footballing side, enough to question what is expected from his man and how they put a reasonable plan in place to achieve those goals every season.

Stan Schofield
47 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:41:28
Steve@43: Yes, drills in training, and players who know what they're going to do before they get the ball. It's not just the fitness of players, it's the speed and accuracy of movement of the ball. That's why City look a team apart at the moment.

Ironically, I think we were ahead of our time in the late-60s to 70. There was only us, and to some degree Leeds (although they spoiled it by being dirty), who played the ball consistently on the ground through midfield, when other teams were booting it up the field. And we did it fast, with slick fluid passing movements. I think City are the modern-day equivalent. We were very 'continental' in our style, an example of how stylish and effective British football could be if the desire, training and right players were there.

That's what we should be aiming for, the best, not just also-rans. It certainly seems consistent with what Moshiri et al were going on about just after Koeman arrived.

Steve Barr
48 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:42:49
Steve @43...you seem to be describing the way we have been playing recently. Well at least the
"Lots of the game in those days was played at walking pace. Maybe not where the ball was, but in other areas of the pitch"!

Our players don't appear to have any concept of movement off the ball, basic give and go etc. They are absolutely static most of the time, giving the man on the ball no options at all to pass!

Steve Ferns
49 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:45:20
It's impossible to find the answers there Brent. I have tried to find out as much as I can. Unsworth likes to talk in plain English. When asked about technical stuff he has kept taking it back to basics and clichés. The question is, is he doing this because it is what is needed now? If so, I would agree. It's not the time to talk about formations, tactics, roles etc. It's a time for simply building the players up, getting them on the pitch, putting in a shift and getting the results. Once we've had a few wins, then we should hear about formations, tactics and roles.

There's a few videos where unsworth drops a few coaching terms. Nothing too fancy but he clearly has been on the courses, but you would expect Jeffers to have been on the courses as well.

This dossier that Unsworth did before his time at Everton that appears to be some youth development blueprint shows him to be a thinker. Other than that it is just listening to snippets here and snippets there. Particularly from the players that you learn he is a good coach with that skill to get a message across by making the game simple whilst actually getting these simple things to add together in a complicated way that he can see clearly.

Steve Ferns
50 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:54:05
Steve Barr, Koeman was a shambles. I didn't want him at the start (well I wanted de boer so less said about that the better!) but I got behind him and after a rocky patch where for the first time in my life I called for a manager's head, by writing on here he had to go, he then turned things around and got us going.

What I liked is he had a team, a plan, a formation, tactics, and a way of playing:

Robles
Holgate Williams Funes Baines
Gueye Davies Schneiderlin
Barkley Lukaku Mirallas

We had a very steady back four that were solid. We had energy in midfield from Davies and Gueye whilst Schneiderlin sat. Barkley and Mirallas where narrow and came inside, Barkley to link Midfield and Attack, Koeman finally finding a position for him that did not disrupt his defensive balance, and Lukaku although often isolated, scored a shitload.

Then he ripped it all up. He barely played a 433. We never had the same fitness or energy. we lost our solidity and everything went to shit. All because he never had a plan.

And the players just passed it sideways to each other because that's their default. They were confused. Koeman didn't want this, he was not happy with them, but he was not getting his message across. What on earth did he do in training? Why did he not go back to basics and play a team like so:

Pickford
Holgate Keane Williams Baines
Gueye Davies Schneiderlin
Rooney Calvert-Lewin Mirallas

That way keep last seasons energy. Let Rooney be Barkley, let Calvert-Lewin or Sandro be Lukaku (yeah I know). And tried to change it once things were working and results were coming?

Brent Stephens
51 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:55:06
Steve, that dossier link is fascinating. I never realised Unsy had so much respect for Moyes' ability. And interesting comment about his thinking that Rooney could be a coach.
Jim Wilson
52 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:57:12
Steve Ferns - the game has changed mate. It's full of teams that have bought loads of players and have good individuals but do not play like a solid unit, a proper team so teams like City and Chelsea who have the best individuals win.
As soon as they come across a proper organised team like Leicester were they can't hack it.
The Everton team of 85 would run riot in this Premiership and win the league no problem
John Charles
53 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:57:53
Steve Ferns , I really enjoy reading your posts and you obviously have an understanding of formation and tactics. It seems though like your posts are predicated on coaching being all that really matters. Your observations on Howe and Dyche are well made but fail to acknowledge the players they have. Similarly your assertion that Koeman spent 200mil and therefore a decent coach should be able to coach /adapt/ mouldy them does not in any was acknowledge that they may just be bang average tonpoor players who we spent grossly over the odds for..
Steve Ferns
54 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:59:54
Moyes is very underrated by us on here as a coach. Yet all the coaches and managers within the game rate him very highly.

I like the story about when we went to America for a pre-season tour, and we used the local american football teams training facilities. There was this like skate board half pipe thing. Moyes was intrigued as to what it was, what it did and then what it could do for us. After watching a demonstration, he found out where they got it from and ordered one to be sent to finch farm.

Those two american fitness coaches we had for years, until Martinez decided he didn't need fitness coaches, were also ahead of their time, and an indicator of Moyes as an innovator.

Denis Richardson
55 Posted 09/11/2017 at 22:03:13
Thought this would be a good article until the words Allardyce and Pullis were mentioned as possible options.

Anyone advocating either of these two doesn’t ‘get’ the club and I don’t care if you haven’t missed a game since 1924 and shook Dixie’s hand.

Can you really imagine either of these two in our dug out and feel fine? Both should have retired a long long time ago - they already filled their bank accounts, which has been their main aim for the last 15 years.

Steve Ferns
56 Posted 09/11/2017 at 22:07:01
Jim, It would certainly be interesting to see how a team from the 80s did against a side from now. It would need to be a two legged affair, one on present pitches and one on an 80s pitch. I'd have my money on a present day side. John Bailey would be a league 2 player now. Steven, Stevens, Bracewell, Sheedy and Sharp would be interesting to see how they measure up, I'd like to think they'd hold their own.

John, pochettino and Guardiola are all about the coaching. It's about knowing the tactics and getting that across to the players in a simple way on the training pitch. This present team plays like a load of shite, but a good coach should be able to put them into a top 7 side without a new signing. We've only lost one player, and we had a massive cushion over 8th. We don't have a player problem, we have a coaching problem. Of course, a proper striker would make the world of difference. Money only gives you possible shortcuts, you still need to coach the players. That's what Guardiola says (doesn't stop him spending though).

Jim Wilson
57 Posted 09/11/2017 at 22:19:59
It's a bit unfair on John Bailey Steve and it was mainly Pat Van Den Hauwe at left back in 1985,
And I would love Peter Reid and Kevin Ratcliffe to be in our present team.
Joe Green
58 Posted 09/11/2017 at 22:22:05
We’ve lost way more than one player from last seasons 7th place squad. Lukaku , Valencia, Barkley , Coleman, Mori, Bolaise, Geri. Maybe some others I’ve forgotten. Not all greats maybe. But they would all get into today’s squad.
Dave Lynch
59 Posted 09/11/2017 at 22:31:07
The game Has changed jim.
Not in the sense of its eleven men against eleven men and the ball is still round.
It has changed because of the money. Sky started it and still waffle bollox to Tristan and his dad who have been following (insert name of top 4 side) for the last year or so, since the last side they followed failed to win anything.
They lap it up and the so called big 4 get more TV revenue and coverage to feed the Sky minions.
If you want to dine at the top table then you have to spend big.
Leicester was a fluke and it will never happen again.
We are a dinosaur, we have money but a board with a caveman mentality.
Steve Ferns
60 Posted 09/11/2017 at 22:39:27
I love Peter Reid, but he was far too slow to survive in the modern game. I'd like to think he'd find a way to adapt. But, let's face facts, the present game has the best players from all over the world playing against us. Each side lines up with 11 internationals. Back then a decent side had 3.
Jim Wilson
61 Posted 09/11/2017 at 23:02:55
I can see were you are coming from Steve.
But look at Liverpool back in the day. They had some really average players but played as a team and could beat a crack European side full of good players because they were organised right and had the team ethic.
We were like that too in 85 but unfortunately we all know what happened to stop us in our tracks.
Steve Ferns
62 Posted 09/11/2017 at 23:12:01
There's no doubting the European dominance of the great sides on England in the late 70s to mid 80s and our place amongst the very best of them.

However, it's almost impossible to compare it to the present day. These players run 2-3 times further every game, they are so much fitter, they are taller, they are heavier, they are stronger, the ball is lighter and moves more quickly, bends more in the air, the pitches are synthetic, the boots are better, the kit is better, and so on and so forth.

Phillip Warrington
63 Posted 09/11/2017 at 23:20:44
For me, who ever manages Everton should be technically trained and have some fire. Koeman at one stage was a good coach who used a now outdated Dutch system of training and playing, hence most Dutch coaches aren't doing well and the national team failed to qualify for the World Cup.

All the good teams play with speed and are direct, not long-ball, but aim to get in the opposition's box with a minimal amount of passes; most important, they make sure whichever player is going forward, they are being covered. Even now, when you watch Everton when they're playing slow monotonous balls from defenders to midfielders going nowhere but back and forward and from side to side... Teams got used to this, closed Everton players down and we started panicking and getting nowhere. But at times, when we started attacking teams at a decent pace, we actually looked half-decent.

So, to me, we don't need some warhorse coach who will save us from relegation but a coach who is going to technically improve our players and a big enough coach who will encourage players to show their skill and flair. When it doesn't work, one who will take it on the chin and not blame the players. If that costs £10 mill a season, so be it. Surely improving playing staff and the way the team plays is better than watching a midtable dog fight year after year.

Dave Lynch
64 Posted 09/11/2017 at 23:24:24
You forgot the fans are more "Fickle" Steve.
Michael Penley
65 Posted 09/11/2017 at 23:47:52
Isn't Martin O'Neill also a "foreign manager"?
Eric Myles
66 Posted 10/11/2017 at 00:24:45
Steve #62, the regulation weight of the ball hasn't changed since, iirc, 1938.
Brent Stephens
67 Posted 10/11/2017 at 00:34:25
Eric, the "regulation" weight hasn't changed. But those older balls sure soaked up the wet and became heavier! My head remembers it well! Or maybe it now doesn't!
David Ellis
68 Posted 10/11/2017 at 01:23:44
Jim - sorry completely disagree.
Kenwright has made GOOD appointments as manager overall - Everton out performed Marin O Neill's teams with less money for years. Kenwright was FAR BETTER than his predecessor chairman - Agent Johnson. I'm not saying Kenwright is a star, but you can't say that all our troubles started with him taking over. This is simply not true.

As for foreign vs British managers - its a false dichotomy. Who cares where they come from? Get the best we can. When you have the whole world to choose from (as the Premier League does) its hardly surprising that so few managers are British. If you were to pick the top 20 best tennis players in the world how many Brits yep 1. It's the same with managers and it would be extraordinary if it were otherwise if you look at the numbers of available managers globally vs UK .

It's not that foreign managers are better than British managers but, just as with tennis players, there are a lot more foreigners than Brits so on average you will have more foreigners in the top 20 at any given moment (its the same for all countries - there's nothing special about Britain - it's not like the Premier League has masses of managers from any one other country - just a couple of the best from each - the so called top 6 are managed by a Portuguese, an Argentinian, a Frenchman, a German, a Spaniard and an Italian - and these 6 are the ones with the real global clout so it is exactly as you would predict in a global market).

Tom Dodds
69 Posted 09/11/2017 at 06:06:05
My take on the state of football in general in these times will probably divide opinion, notably between younger and older fans more than likely ;

1.Appertaining to OUR club,we,i hope all agree ,need to heave the fat shyster 'controller'and friend Zahrin to fuck in one collective rush back to luviesville.

2.Cut the head off the Premiership of those ogerly rich top 6 clubs and let them chariot race round their own circuits with their hired mercenary show ponies and with their spoilt ,mob fans cheering them on.interninably.(Trust human phsyche they wont care).

3.Then merge the rest (of us) with the championship,so you would have a large (and fairly geographically encompassing national fambase) core of football as (more or less) near as dammit as you could get to a general even playing field.
As an after thought if England was actually joined to the continent those top 6 teams would be in a higher league anyway.
The largest glare of course would be suffering the Reds in a higher league than us.
Simple,just have a 1 up and 1 team down with that league.(notice I said 'that' league not 'best')
Fantasy ? Think about it.

Peter Howard
70 Posted 10/11/2017 at 06:15:01
Jim,

I think you should ask Bolton's Director of Finance (if they can afford one) how much money Allardyce " didn't " spend.

Stan Schofield
71 Posted 10/11/2017 at 08:43:57
Brent@67: Yes, footies used to have a bladder and lacing, and needed dubbin. But they still soaked up water, and is was painful if you headed it, especially on the bkadder stitching.

Having said all that, this wasn't generally the case after the mid-60s, after the '66 World Cup. They became more modern balls, with some kind of watertight coating, acrylic or something.

Brent Stephens
72 Posted 10/11/2017 at 08:49:01
Yes, Stan, even worse if heading the stitching!
Stan Schofield
73 Posted 10/11/2017 at 09:17:12
Jim@52: Citing that Leicester title is a bit misleading. That season, all the 'top' sides underperformers from what would 'normally' be expected, and this coincided with Leicester giving maximum performance.

Leicester won the title on 81 points. 81 points is Man Utd's AVERAGE (!) over the last 15 years, and Chelsea aren't far behind them.

Yes, you need good organisation of a team. But to be at the top and sustain it, you need good organisation AND the best players to be organised, by a manager who can organise them.

Dave Abrahams
74 Posted 10/11/2017 at 09:33:34
Steve (54) that skate board/ half pipe post was very interesting but was only half a story, what was the conclusion, what did it did do? how did it help.

Regarding Peter Reid, Dave Sexton said Peter was always slow, even before his injuries but he was always two yards faster in his head than most players he played against.

Andy Meighan
75 Posted 10/11/2017 at 12:25:39
Steve (#54),

Yes, Moyes was that much of an innovator, he couldn't engineer a derby win at Anfield or a win at any other of the Sky babes.

Failed at Manchester United
Failed a Real Sociedad
Failed at Sunderland

And the West Ham fans are hardly welcoming him with open arms, are they? Innovator... my arse!!!

Anthony Hawkins
76 Posted 10/11/2017 at 12:40:23
I get the message the OP is trying to get across however 'success' needs to be defined.

Sam Allardyce, Martin O'Neill, Tony Pulis and David Jones have all been successful in achieving mid table with their teams. Non of them have been in the top 4 or top 6 very often, particularly in modern times. If Everton want to be taken seriously and push into the top 4 then the manager needs to be a winner or someone who evidence they are on the verge themselves. Those 4 names = boring in my book. We need exciting, galvanizing and a strong positive mentality.

Stan Schofield
77 Posted 10/11/2017 at 12:50:24
Tom@69: That proposal represents, in my opinion, an appalling lack of ambition to be near or at the top.

Following what I said @73, over the last 15 years, the PL has been dominated by just three teams, Man Utd (6 titles), Chelsea (5 titles) and Man City (2 titles).

The points average for Utd and Chelsea is around 80, with City close. Others in the current so-called 'top-6' have averaged far less than this. For example, Liverpool have averaged 67 points, with of course no titles. We averaged 10 points less than Liverpool, and 10 points is less than the average difference between Liverpool and Utd. Our average is roughly the same as Spurs, apart from the last few seasons when Spurs have improved.

Now we have a new regime, and have ambitions for the top. The last thing we'd want is for the current 'top-6' to have a league of their own. It's just not justified by the facts. If there were a super league, it would be just three sides, Utd, City and Chelsea.

You have to be careful to distinguish the facts from the media propaganda about the current 'top-6'. This propaganda would have you believe that Liverpool is a top team, when in fact the facts show they are mid-to-high in the table, not the elite.

Martin Nicholls
78 Posted 10/11/2017 at 13:06:28
I doubt that the "top six" would vote for a "top six league" as it would inevitably result in one of them finishing bottom!
Paul Jones
79 Posted 10/11/2017 at 13:07:00
Dave (74) - We used the half pipes to cover our multi-million pound lawnmowers (aka weapons of grass destruction) so they remained invisible to everyone - even US satellites and drones.
Dennis Stevens
80 Posted 10/11/2017 at 13:16:18
Indeed [Martin #78], the whole flaw in the European Super League idea - it creates losers & they all want to be perceived as winners.
Craig Walker
81 Posted 10/11/2017 at 13:35:44
If we are never going to win anything and appoint a manager who is happy to just keep us in the division playing dour and uninspiring football then can somebody tell me what is the point in following Everton? I know that we don't have the resources and we've been overtaken by clubs such as Man City and Chelsea but I want to see a winning team and preferably, to see us win with style. If we can't do either of these things and start treating the cup competitions as an inconvenience then we are just making up the numbers - a team who might win against the top 6 sides, once in a season if we're lucky. We're offering managers a salary of millions per year and then lowering the bar. It's analogous to saying to your kids "don't worry about getting good grades at school. Just try and get grade Ds in everything. The key thing is to avoid failing" whilst putting them through the most expensive private schooling money can buy. It's a completely ludicrous scenario.

We might not get there, but shouldn't we at least aim for a manager who wants to win games, will be competitive in all competitions and not accept mediocrity whilst attempting to play entertaining football or is that too much to expect for a multi-million pound salary?

Allan Board
82 Posted 10/11/2017 at 13:58:28
I agree Steve @43, no basic give-and-go, movement, triangles etc.

The reason? Confidence completely destroyed by defeats, poor environment around the team and in training, too many rollickings from coach or manager (without then helping them to improve), and a basic lack of understanding of the abilities of the players at your disposal by management.

Just keep swearing and bawling at them and anyone would just switch off.

Playing triangles on the pitch is based on trust – if you have it, play it, and your mate has not moved, you look like the shit player! There will be the exceptions who always want the ball, but without movement they will hold on for too long and get stripped, again looking like they are indecisive.

It's a vicious circle only rectified in training, at high speed, in tight areas, and completely no holds barred.

Always been the same, always will be.

Footballers aren't the brightest, so keep it simple, quick and short instruction.

And have a laugh!!!!

Gary Edwards
83 Posted 10/11/2017 at 14:11:07
We should give Unsworth time to instill his methods / systems into the 1st team . and if that means losing some of the senior players in the process, to my mind that's inevitable. His systems work, his teams play good footie, his teams have a good win %, I feel that he just needs time, be encouraged to make bold decisions and the board's support in bringing in a top striker, a top LCB and Shaktar's Brazilian midfield dynamo in January.

I like the idea of making Rooney a coach though question if he's mature enough.

By its very nature Everton, the club, the culture, the environment may be difficult for a foreign manager to full integrate himself and consequently deliver. As an expatriate for 25 years I know that this scenario applies in many walks of life, it's human nature. For this reason I think that's why we need to consider people who know he club, are affiliated to the club in one way or another and hopefully proven winners some may boo hoo the PL2 title but it's more than O'Neil / Allardyce / Pulis have won in the past 2 decades.

Jay Woods
84 Posted 10/11/2017 at 14:18:58
Gary Edwards, we HAVE given him time to show his methods.

For example, we gave him time to find a way to win a must-win game away to Lyon and what did he do? Start the game without a striker.

Now call me old Mr Picky, but I suspect there's something not quite right about starting a must-win game without a striker.

The point is we are at great risk of being relegated because we are not functioning as a football team on multiple levels. We can't think beyond salvaging our top flight status at this point.

Jay Wood
85 Posted 10/11/2017 at 14:25:10
Dave Abrahams @ 74.

This article might help answer your question on 'the ramp' introduced to Finch Farm by David Moyes following a pre-season trip to the States.

Link

Half way down you can see a photo of it with an explanation from the coaches. In brief, it improved players power and acceleration, particularly over short distances.

I know the 2 coaches in the interview were moved on under Martinez. You might recall the comparative fitness levels and hamstring injuries under Martinez and Moyes. Cough!

The lad Steve was a Yank Moyes also recruited from the states. Now I don't recall if he was the American coach or not, but I do remember a really insightful video on the official club site with an American coach when these innovations were introduced.

He was super professional, really knew his stuff and spoke glowingly of the FF set up. I also remember when asked, his pick of the players for their dedication to training and athleticism was... Joleon Lescott.

I'm someone who takes a more benevolent take on Moyes' time with us, whilst simultaneously never wishing to see him employed in ANY capacity by the club EVER AGAIN for his comments on leaving the Blues for Manure. He did a lot of good things and the recruitment of American coaches and installation of the ramp at the time was one of them.

As for the claim you picked up on by an earlier poster - that Peter Reid would be far too slow to survive in the modern game - I'm with you. His speed of thought and ability to play a pass under pressure would make up for his undeniably slow pace.

This kind of claim is a futile one to make: that a player from a bygone era would not hack it in today's game. This was recently discussed on another thread.

And of course Reidy was a tiger, a winner. And a memory like an elephant! Who remembers in our first title winning season in the mid-80s Sheff Weds came to Goodison and Brian Marwood ended Inchy Heath's season with a filthy tackle? Six months later, in the away game at Sheff Weds, Reidy - barely legally - committed manslaughter on Marwood as revenge.

That was a TEAM that looked after each other.

Dennis Stevens
86 Posted 10/11/2017 at 14:28:05
Jay, I don't agree that the Lyon match was "must win". As you say, "we are at great risk of being relegated", therefore the games we need to win are in the League. So far Unsworth has lost one & won one, this season, if he continues at that rate we'll be safe.
Dave Abrahams
87 Posted 10/11/2017 at 14:52:42
Jay (85)thanks for that link, it was interesting but I couldn't see the skate board/ half pipe instrument that Steve was referring to, and the courses thatTim Howard was doing might have made him fitter but I doubt they helped him to become a better player, agree with about Peter Reid.
Don Alexander
88 Posted 10/11/2017 at 15:02:38
Dave Ellis (@68), I cannot share your view of Kenwright, but I do share your view of scouring the world for our next manager, which is precisely what Kenwright should have done. Instead he barely scoured Lancashire before signing Moyes and Martinez.

Add to that his habit of employing unqualified, desperate ex-players as coaches, yes-men to the core as their personal predicaments force them to be, and it's a recipe for the mediocrity we've endured during his tenure.

I trust Moshiri has higher ambitions than to be advised by his expensively-employed mediocrity-magnate when it comes to our next manager but to me the increasing evidence of Moshiri not having much football-savvy is a worry.

Jay Wood
89 Posted 10/11/2017 at 19:03:41
Dave @ 87.

I'm pretty sure Steve's 'skateboard thingy' description is misleading you. The ramp is what I believe he refers to and was what impressed Moyes and what he had imported to FF. You see a photo of that as I say half way down the article.

I know there are some Blues who have access to FF. I wonder if any one knows if the ramp is a) still in place and b) if so, if it is still used in training/fitness drills.

Jason Wilkinson
90 Posted 10/11/2017 at 21:05:39
Having seen that ramp at Finch Farm how about putting the keys to the managers office at the top and getting the candidates to have a race to collect them?

I doubt Sam or Unsy would get the job.

Jay Woods
91 Posted 10/11/2017 at 21:21:53
Dennis Stevens, you can't be seriously telling me that the Watford FREAK RESULT counts towards any decision to appoint Unsworth?

I really despair...

Dennis Stevens
92 Posted 10/11/2017 at 21:42:45
Despair all you like Jay. Dismissing victories as only being down to good luck is about as valid as dismissing defeats as only being the result of bad luck. But do keep SHOUTING, there's nothing more convincing than that.
Stan Schofield
93 Posted 10/11/2017 at 22:18:35
Jay@91: All football games have elements of 'luck', or 'random chance', that sometimes work for us and sometimes work against us. To paraphrase someone famous, chance favours the prepared. In that game, we were prepared to battle, influenced to a large degree by the fact that Unsworth was the manager. If Koeman had still been the manager, we probably would not have battled, instead we probably would have bottled.

If we hadn't battled, we would be criticising the team for not trying, for not putting a shift in. But they did battle, so they and Unsworth deserve credit. Because Unsworth deserves credit, that should and probably will count towards any decision to appoint Unsworth. Football success is measured by results.

Jack Convery
94 Posted 10/11/2017 at 23:47:38
Mirallas to WHU and Arnautovic to EFC come January.
Brian Williams
95 Posted 11/11/2017 at 00:34:48
Hope not Jack. His attitude's as bad as Mirallas's seemingly.
Steavey Buckley
96 Posted 11/11/2017 at 01:35:23
The madness can't stop because Koeman blew the budget on inferior players, when across the park, Everton's neighbours with the same type of budget brought in quality. That's why there is no madness there.
Paul Hay
97 Posted 11/11/2017 at 05:03:52
Craig@81

That's the best comment on here. The first paragraph sums it up perfectly.

Ian Hollingworth
98 Posted 11/11/2017 at 07:20:58
All the comments on here about how slow the game was in the 80s etc makes me laugh. Watching the turgid and slow play from the current Everton team cannot be faster than some of the stuff we were treated to back then.

Players might be fitter and run more but that does not necessarily make the play faster. There is not one single player from the current squad who would get in the 1985 team regardless of fitness levels.

Steve Brown
99 Posted 11/11/2017 at 08:30:08
Allardyce, Moyes, Howe, Dyche, Pulis, Hughes – it's time to get real and end this madness by hiring one of these. After all, between them they have won nothing with probably a century of management experience between them!

That would fit perfectly into our great tradition of mediocrity and failure we have endured for the last 30 years.

When did we all become so defeated and cowed? That for me is the true Johnson and Kenwright legacy. If Simeone, Ancelotti and Tuchel were mentioned as candidates to replace Klopp, Liverpool fans would not bat an eyelid. That's the level they think the club should operate at. But if Moshiri dares to think bigger and fans get excited on here, they are squashed.

The true madness is thinking that appointing any of that brigade of second-raters will change us from the third-raters we've become. When are we going to show greater ambition? I think we owe it to the whole generation of fans like my sons who have never seen Everton win a trophy.

So please let's stop this "optimist vs pessimist", "get real vs ideal" bullshit that has really made reading TW painful and just decide as fans that we demand that Everton challenge for trophies year on year and become a top four team. Because, if we don't demand it, then the culture of complacency and mediocrity that has killed this club for three decades will never change.

And the mad thing is that we have an owner who is actually ambitious and willing to bankroll us to go for it.

Steve Brown
100 Posted 11/11/2017 at 08:33:47
Craig # 81, I wish I'd read your comments before posting as I needn't have bothered. Spot on.
Dave Abrahams
101 Posted 11/11/2017 at 09:24:21
I agree with Craig (#81) and Steve (#99) and the only way that will happen is if / when Usmanov joins the club; Moshiri hasn't got the money to do it on his own.

Hurry up, Mr Usmanov.

Stan Schofield
102 Posted 11/11/2017 at 11:15:06
Craig @81 and Steve @99: Great posts, spot on.

Dave @101, I agree, we need Usmanov, or financial equivalent, to reach and sustain the very top. Sooner the better.

Currently, we don't have Usmanov to get us to the very top of the heap. But we do have Moshiri to get us going firmly in that direction, to be consistent 'top 6' and in the Champions League. And that requires a top-class manager, and a budget for players to satisfy that manager. That's what Moshiri can provide, he's basically said so 18 months ago.

Those of us who we're brought up with the 1960s Everton sides, and then had the 1980s under Kendall, have great things to remember. There's no reason why younger supporters should not have the same chances of glory.

Moshiri's finances can provide that glory. If he's thinking big, then surely us supporters should be doing so as well.

Rob Halligan
103 Posted 11/11/2017 at 11:34:39
Well said Craig and Steve. Of course, I can probably think of six million reasons why the likes of Simeone, Ancelotti or Tuchel would want the Everton job.
George McKane
104 Posted 11/11/2017 at 11:45:59
Cosmic Morning Blues - - just wanted to say "hello" and no matter what love reading your comments and views and especially being a fellow Blue with you all - - doing my housework with a bit of music in the background but thinking with hoover in hand about our future - - I did a Van Gogh evening last week to open the new Loving Vincent Film (up in St.Helen's) and just thinking about Van Gogh and Gaughin (two great Evertonians) - - I am reminded of " D'où Venons Nous / Que Sommes Nous / Où Allons Nous" - - Gaughin's Masterpiece of his days in Tahiti.

Bonjour et Bon Chance Mes Amis - - and them old cosmic grooves as well - - with a firm handshake - - George

Dave Rusk
105 Posted 11/11/2017 at 12:17:07
I wonder if Martin O'Neill will become the bookies' favourite to be next EFC manager if Ireland do not qualify for the World Cup next Tuesday night. Could do worse IMO.
Nicholas Ryan
106 Posted 11/11/2017 at 12:33:40
George [104] Rock Band, The Verve, once wrote: 'The Drugs don't Work', but, from your post; clearly, they Do!! Best Wishes.
Dennis Stevens
107 Posted 11/11/2017 at 12:39:41
You may be right, Dave (#105). But we could do a heck of a lot better, imo!
Andy Meighan
108 Posted 11/11/2017 at 12:40:34
Great post, Steve (#99).

Let's just pull away from the mess we're in. And then, next summer, reach for the stars.

George McKane
109 Posted 11/11/2017 at 12:41:29
Cosmic Blues Nick - - - never smoked even a ciggie in my life - - or took anything stronger than a beerNeed one watching The Blues) or a coffee - - never take medicine - - have a little saying to myself ' never take medicine for another people's ills' - - just naturally off me cake - - 68 in 10 days and ready for anything - - -"Top of the world Ma".

Up The Blues and such Cosmic Dreamers.

Ray Roche
110 Posted 11/11/2017 at 13:11:13
George (#104).

The Hoovering... not a Freddy Mercury remake was it? ;-)

Anyway, the Van Gough "Loving Vincent" film. I missed it when it came around here. It looks excellent, is it?

Tony Marsh
111 Posted 11/11/2017 at 13:33:07
Steve Brown @ 99,

Moshiri can drop all the big names he likes for our next manager, so can the supporters, but as long as we continue sell our best players every season, it's pointless. The big managers go to the big clubs. Big clubs fight to keep their best players.

You made comparison with LFC with regards to naming would be the next manager. It is true no-one would bat an eyelid when names get connected with the Kopites. The thing is, Liverpool told Barca to fuck off in the summer; we rolled over and let Man Utd tickle our belly again.There is a huge difference in mindset of the clubs, mate.

Until we stop becoming a feeder club for Man Utd and stop buying Premier League rejects from our competitors, we are going nowhere. If Man Utd, Spurs etc are ever selling, we should tell the fuckers we ain't buying.

George McKane
112 Posted 11/11/2017 at 13:44:52
Hi Ray - - my grandson Liam who is now 25 and has been coming to watch Everton with me since he was 4 years old used to sit on the hoover as I cleaned up - - The Van Gogh Film is tremendous - beautiful bit of animation - - worst seeing - - I did an Intro and then Q&A after the film dressed as Vincent - - nice night.

Interesting and important time for EFC and for us fans. No obvious massive candidate for me just yet - - liked the sound of Tuckel a few year ago in BL - - was keen on him when Koeman got it - - would like to see a new young thinker and active rather than some of the old dinosaurs mentioned in the media.

The delay in naming someone seems to say that either they are still thinking or whoever they want is unavailable or even they are still looking to Unsworth.

Mmmmmm - - interesting few days ahead.

Best wishes - - George

Jay Woods
113 Posted 11/11/2017 at 13:50:30
Dennis Stevens, who was shouting?

But, not to get sidetracked with that, Watford was very much indeed a freak result that went against the fundamentals that remain appalling, namely, we can't defend and we can't create chances.

The team has played like this in every game since the start of the season, so if that is extrapolated out across the rest of the season, we're in trouble.

Form, not a once-in-a-decade recovery win, is what we should be focussed on when thinking about who the helmsman for the remainder of the season should be.

@ Tony Marsh: 100% agree with that point. We're still acting like a medium-sized club, most notably in our relationship with a derby rival, no less, Man United.

Don Alexander
114 Posted 11/11/2017 at 14:08:46
George (#109), great input, again!

Whadd'ya hear? Whadd'ya say?!!

Ray Roche
115 Posted 11/11/2017 at 14:46:01
George, Thanks for the update on the Van Gogh film, I saw a couple of the artists responsible for the painting used in the film, being interviewed on TV and it looks amazing.

As for a new manager, it all seems to have gone quiet on the Allardyce front, thankfully. No idea who will come in though. It has all gone worryingly quiet on the Barkley front, too.
I'd love him to stay .

Stan Schofield
116 Posted 11/11/2017 at 14:46:50
It's probably right to say that there's no point in hiring an 'elite' manager on over £6M/year, unless we have the money to go for 'elite' players and are determined to keep our best players. Having the money has led us to hire and fire one 'elite' manager already, but hasn't stopped us letting our best players go at the drop of a hat. Let's hope that what's happened so far in this 'new regime' is just the first attempt at getting it right, and that the club has learned something from it, so that the next attempt is better. If not, then we haven't really changed, at least not until someone with a lot more money joins the club.
Dennis Stevens
117 Posted 11/11/2017 at 15:08:57
Jay Woods #113
Who was SHOUTING? I appreciate the prospect of revisiting your own posting after you’ve submitted it may not be the most enticing prospect, for you, however, therein lies the answer to your query.

Interesting point about form, or at least it would be if it had any relevance to the issue at hand. Koeman’s form as manager cost him his job. Unsworth has been in charge for two League matches this season, to my mind that’s too few to determine any kind of form as yet, although as it happens, if he continued to win 50% of the remaining matches & lose the rest we’d be safe. No other candidate has any form at all as Everton manager, so I think your point regarding form is somewhat moot.

Steve Ferns
118 Posted 11/11/2017 at 15:13:45
Anyone who does not Think Unsworth will now be in charge for the next game, in just 7 days time, should look at the official site.

It’s filled with sumbliminal messages designed to get you thinking he’s the right man for the job. I think the board need to be brave and announce it now. Instead they seem to be waiting for Unsworth to deliver some results.

What else are they doing though? Are they speaking to Tuchel? Are they talking to clubs to get permission to speak to other managers?

It’s all gone very, very quiet. It’s definately Unsworth for palace for me.

That said, I want to see Unsworth given a go.

Tony Marsh
119 Posted 11/11/2017 at 15:40:10
Talk Sport this morning. Cundy and Bingham both said we will be in serious trouble if Unsworth is given the job. Both agreed we would go down if Rhino stays in charge. Now this is coming from a sunbed tanned Tit like Jason Cundy and A female presenter who admits knows little about Unsworth only the mess the team has looked under him.

This is the filename we face. No mark presenters on a radio show who probably don't know where Everton is can both see what is blatantly obvious. It's a pity some our own fans can't see it..

Mark Tanton
120 Posted 11/11/2017 at 15:43:35
Cundy deserves the utmost contempt and derision, simply for being married to an utter cretin. Let’s not bother what nomarks like him have to say.
David Barks
121 Posted 11/11/2017 at 15:52:39
Tony,

What does one of them being female have to do with anything? Shall she run back home and get the dinner prepared?

You then say they are nomarks who probably don’t even know where Everton is, yet you believe their opinions are sound? Which one is it? Do they know what they’re talking about or are they completely ignorant?

Steve Ferns
122 Posted 11/11/2017 at 15:59:59
If no mark presenters who don't know where Everton is, then how can they see what will happen?

Do they know that we won the PL2 under Unsworth, do they know who are prodigious young talent is? The World Cup winning 6 and Tom Davies and Beni Baningime?

Have they seen us to fathom what our problems are? Do they know what skills Unsworth has a coach and what flaws? Do they know that Unsworth doesn't have the skills as a coach and the players at his disposal to fix this?

Or are they being lazy and just looking at the league table and Unsworth's perceived lack of experience and jumping to conclusions? Every expert I have read or listened to is absolutely clueless.

The other week I listened to local expert, David Prentice, our local chief football writer no less, who gave his judgement on Klaassen and made a remark about him trying to play one touch stuff and that not being his game! David Prentice - that is exactly his game and you clearly have never seen him play for Ajax!!

I'm sick of these so called experts giving opinions when they actually haven't seen, considered or analysed the situation they are judging.

Tony Marsh
123 Posted 11/11/2017 at 16:06:15
David Barks seeing as you are high up in the PC police brigade I will ingulge you.

Georgey Bingham may come across as a male if you are a TW contributor who lives abroad. Most Radio/ TV pundits are ex footballers so my explanation put that to bed.
Female or not she knew Unsworth was out of his depth just by out recent games.

Off your PC high horse Please.

Tony Marsh
124 Posted 11/11/2017 at 16:10:44
Cundy and Bingham are both right about Unsworth thought that's my point.
David Barks
125 Posted 11/11/2017 at 16:14:26
Tony,

I’ll ask again, what does her being female have anything to do with anything? Do you refer to Martin Tyler as the male presenter? PC police? No. Just asking why you felt the need to point out that she was a woman as a way to drive home a point about them being clueless.

And again, if they’re so clueless why do you then put weight behind their opinion? Do they know what they’re talking about or are they clueless? Surely if clueless, you wouldn’t hold them up as strengthening your position. So which one is it?

Stan Schofield
126 Posted 11/11/2017 at 16:14:50
At my age, I feel a need to prioritise my time. I like ToffeeWeb, which is why I use it. But, when it comes to broadcast media presenters and pundits, I've learned that they generally talk drivel. So I never listen to them, or read them. I turn the sound off on MOTD, it's far more enjoyable. Also, talking drivel from the various presenters knows no gender distinctions. The males and female equally drivellacious.
Steve Ferns
127 Posted 11/11/2017 at 16:16:06
Tony, other than the fact that they have read the headlines, what did either of those presenters say that led you to believe that they had analysed the situation and therefore gave correct judgement?
Steve Ferns
128 Posted 11/11/2017 at 16:20:58
TalkSport can be a good listen. But you need to understand what they do. Case in point the recent furore over Joey Barton saying David Unsworth was too fat to be a manager.

Ex-pro made an inflammatory remark, people phoned in, cue explosive radio discussion and headlines in the papers. That's all it was, TalkSport winding up the listeners and generating publicity to sell advertising and increase revenue.

They never say anything bland or middle of the road. Everyone on there says inflammatory stuff. It's how they work. So I don't even believe that the presenters believe their own opinions. The only one who is middle of the road is Jim White, but he likes to be the voice of reason contrasting with his outlandish guests. Do the guests genuinely believe what they are saying or is the likes of Perry Groves saying what he's been told to say cos it's easy money that an average football that time should have forgot would not otherwise get?

David Barks
129 Posted 11/11/2017 at 16:23:42
If they would have said he’s the man for the job Tony would say how clueless they are. But because he shares their opinion he holds them up as an example to prove his point. But if they are nomarks who don’t even know where Everton is, as you stated, what does it say about you that you hold the same opinion as them?
Martin Nicholls
130 Posted 11/11/2017 at 17:14:25
Tony111# - I've been inwardly critical of many of your posts however this one is spot on. In fact I made the same point on another thread a couple of days back but it prompted no debate. In a nutshell, I cannot reconcile Moshiri's reported intention to recruit an "elite" manager with the fact that he has sanctioned the sale of our three (I include Barkley in this) best players, and in the case of Lukaku with undue haste. Haven't given up on what Moshiri may bring to our Club yet but I am now more hopeful than optimistic.
Steve Ferns
131 Posted 11/11/2017 at 17:20:13
Lukaku took 2 years to sell, so how was it with undue haste?
Tony Marsh
132 Posted 11/11/2017 at 17:21:16
David Barks I think the name Martin gives the game away mate or maybe his moustache if he had one ha ha Wow the PC brigade get everywhere .
Martin Nicholls
133 Posted 11/11/2017 at 17:30:59
Steve#131- undue haste in my view is selling without a replacement, selling when we could have shown some balls (like the sh*te, Arse and even Southampton did) by putting up a "not for sale sign" or waiting until later in the transfer window until the Neymar transfer was finalised. And that latter point is not speaking with hindsight - his move to PSG was an open secret well before Lukaku was sold, as was the fact that PSG were willing to meet his well publicised release clause. I don't know what you mean by saying Lukaku took 2 years to sell - in fact as recently as March this year his agent was telling all and sundry that he was almost certain to sign a new contract with us.
Martin Nicholls
134 Posted 11/11/2017 at 17:38:19
Tony#132 - I won't have a word said against the name Martin!
Steve Ferns
135 Posted 11/11/2017 at 17:39:32
Martin, Lukaku asked to go 2.5 years ago. He demanded to be sold in the summer after Martinez did two years. We told him no.

He did one more year, and was asking to be sold again, particularly when Martinez was sacked. Koeman came in, and Koeman and the board promised him one more year and then he could be sold. Lukaku asked for Bolasie to supply the crosses to score more goals (Bolasie was a mate apparently) and we agreed. There was a proviso in the agreement that we would not sell him if we achieved Champions League football. There was a sum agreed and that sum was met by Manchester United.

Lukaku's agent tried to get a new contract agreed that would insert the release clause in writing in the contract.

If we reneged on a verbal agreement (it could have actually been in writing for all we know) then it would have damaged our credibility with incoming players who would not want to join a club like Everton (who if your a 18 year old foreign wonderkid would hardly be your dream club) if they would not be allowed to move on to one of the 3 biggest clubs in the world.

Martin Nicholls
136 Posted 11/11/2017 at 17:44:12
Steve#135 - care to confirm why you are so sure about all these promises and verbal agreements you refer to? So far as I am aware they are no more than hearsay and speculation and as such are no more reliable than the various claims and counter claims we have read about the Barkley situation.
Steve Ferns
137 Posted 11/11/2017 at 17:46:40
You won't be able to find them reported in print, but ask anyone at the club, off the record, or those who supposedly know such things and they will all tell you that Lukaku was promised he could leave last summer, and that promise was made the summer before. They will also confirm all I said above and more.
Steve Ferns
138 Posted 11/11/2017 at 17:49:49
Lukaku:

“There is nothing concrete with another club at the moment, my agent (Mino Raiola) is busy discussing things. I’m not going to make big declarations about my future, but I know where I want to play: in a club who are competing in the Champions League and can win titles in England.

“Staying in England is best for me. I know the competition, and I’ve almost reached 100 goals in the league, which is a milestone I want to achieve.

“The Premier League is a dream for me, but I also want to win the Champions League, the FA Cup and other prizes. I don’t want to stay at the same level. I want to improve, and I know where I want to do that.

“My agent is now talking to a club. I know where I want to go, so I’ll just stay patient. I know meetings have been arranged, so I’m just waiting for a call. We are now in discussions with the club. We’ll see what happens.”

Go back, read anything Lukaku says last season. Read it with a slant that he has an agreement to leave and it all makes sense. Read it without, and it does not make sense. How can he be talking to clubs? Why weren't Everton stopping that or reporting clubs to the authorities? It's because he was allowed to as per the agreement.

Brian Williams
139 Posted 11/11/2017 at 17:54:46
I'm with you Martin. All hearsay. Lot's of people "supposedly" know stuff but the very word "supposedly" throws doubt on whether they know owt or not. It could well be a case of something being said that often it becomes fact.

Lukaku was a law unto himself IMHO.

If there WAS a gentlemen's agreement with Lukaku then it further shows the amateur approach of our board.

Martin Nicholls
140 Posted 11/11/2017 at 17:55:48
Steve - I don't know anyone at the Club and certainly no-one who would have inside knowledge of any contractual agreements (be they verbal or written) made between the Club and Lukaku. You say "ask anyone at the Club" - like who? I think all you've done in your post is confirm my view that reports of "promises" made to Lukaku are nothing more than speculation and hearsay.
Steve Ferns
141 Posted 11/11/2017 at 18:00:11
Call it hearsay if you want. If you go the game, keep your ears open and you hear things and you learn things. If you leave the ground about 45 minutes after kick off, or if you're in the hospitality parts for example, you can often bump into Everton staff and past players and they will have a chat to you about the game and can let things slip.

Brian - you need a player playing and playing well. If Lukaku went on strike or downed tools two years ago, do you think we'd have got a decent wedge for him then? You do what you need to do to get the best out of him, even if that means backing yourself into a corner 12 months down the line. Lukaku was always going to move upwards after us, we all knew it, and it was about keeping him as long as we could and playing the best he could to get him to drag us up with him.

Tony Marsh
142 Posted 11/11/2017 at 18:07:01
Martin Mason are you male or female? It doesn't really matter but Daisy Barks thinks it out of order to point out a radio presenter is a female.I did so as to make aware TW contributors that George Bingham is not a man or ex football player. Daisy went ballistic..Do you mind if I call you Martina??
Brian Williams
143 Posted 11/11/2017 at 18:10:41
Steve. I seem to recall Lukaku going on strike for the last ten games or so of every season ;-)
Seriously though, I couldn't see him doing it. It would harm him as much as it would the club.
If he was "promised" anything" that made the club's position weaker, then in my opinion, it was a mistake.
I see no problem in a club keeping a player to their contract which they'd have happily signed under no duress at the time.
At the very least we should have kept him until we had a replacement and then kept him for longer in the window until Utd got the jitters and paid what he was worth. They'd have paid up, we just folded as usual.
Martin Nicholls
144 Posted 11/11/2017 at 18:11:37
Steve - I go to every home game and most aways. Of course I've heard such speculation at games (as well as on here) but it remains that - speculation. Having met a number of ex-players I doubt that they or any of the (I assume junior) staff that you refer to have any more inside knowledge of Lukaku's contract than you or I. I respect your tactical knowledge of the game Steve but am afraid that you and I are just going to have to differ on this one.
Steve Ferns
145 Posted 11/11/2017 at 18:16:22
The season Martinez was sacked, he clearly downed tools. Moshiri was in and Koeman in. Lukaku had a great run of form, and there's a video interview on Everton TV, I tried to find it, but it's hard to find, must be around October 2016. Anyway, in this video, Lukaku talks about that he needs to learn not to look to the future, to concentrate on the now, and that the future will happen. He was basically tell us how he wanted to be sold that he had almost been sold and forced to stay and need to play well to get sold.

Do we even know what the guy was promised when he joined us, because I certainly do not think that it was he will stay with us (penniless at this point) for the next 5 years. I bet he was promised he could disappear to one of the three biggest clubs in the world.

Lukaku would have been asking time and time again about his future transfers. This is not the era of Harry Catterick. These players need to be carefully managed and you're naïve if you just think you can say no and the player just plays on, as well as ever.

Steve Ferns
146 Posted 11/11/2017 at 18:20:31
None of the staff told me either Martin. But I heard the above from 10 different people. It was all too similar, and it fits in exactly with how Lukaku acted and behaved. Like he knew he was off in the summer. He'd just seen how we refused to sell Stones, so he'd need a good reason to be so sure.
Dave Abrahams
147 Posted 11/11/2017 at 18:22:56
George (109). ' Top of the world Ma ' : I was working in Threlfalls Brewery in the late fifties and this auld fella said to me ' there is a good film on the telly tonight don't miss it' I didn't : White Heat with James Cagney, they don't make films like that anymore George, in black and white as well, when we reminisce all us auld fella's will bring the old black/ white films up, they are as good as any of the films made today and you can always hear every word that is spoken, thanks for that memory George, a thousand cosmic grooves to you George.
George McKane
148 Posted 11/11/2017 at 18:35:54
Thanks for the cosmic grooves Dave - - caught them and recirculated them around our House here in New Brighton - -I am always using movies, quotes, literature, musci and poetry in stories and quotes and getting myself "In The Mood" - - the young people I work with pick it up and I hear them saying to each other sometime "here's looking at you kid" - - "you know how yo whistle don't you" - - "sometimes nothings a real cool hand to have" - - whispering "The Horror" and "Rosebud and so on - - - its great - - - be an interesting week coming up - -will look out as I always do for your posts.

Keep it cool but mainly keep it cosmic.

Brian Williams
149 Posted 11/11/2017 at 18:41:23
Disagree Steve, and I'm not naive. Just disagree with you.
Jay Woods
150 Posted 11/11/2017 at 18:48:37
Dennis Stevens, how can I put this... Not everyone assumes that block capitals equates to shouting, you oversensitive big girl's blouse.

I did it to emphasise a point. Next thing using italics will be seen as a micro-aggression or bold as a sign of male, white privilege.

I can't keep up with all the rules and regulations of the open air lunatic asylum that is modern western public discourse.

Brian Williams
151 Posted 11/11/2017 at 18:54:28
I would quote the Coutinho situation as proof that clubs can show strength when it comes to wanting to keep a player who desperately wants away. Dick Van Dyke's another ;-)
Brent Stephens
152 Posted 11/11/2017 at 18:56:36
Brian, interesting examples, Coutinho etc. In addition, I doubt there'd be much chance of having downed tools if not allowed a move - the desire is to show form in the run up to a World Cup, to ensure selection for one's country.
Dennis Stevens
153 Posted 11/11/2017 at 21:43:48
Jay Woods #150

Maybe not everybody is aware of such things, but your response clearly shows you are - so why the need for the faux ignorance?

I'm not offended by your shouting, I just feel it's pathetic that you should feel it makes your point any more worthwhile.

I assume from your sinking to offering insults that you have nothing of any value to contribute. At least you're consistent.

Ian Horan
154 Posted 11/11/2017 at 21:58:57
We atill have one or two interesting views on Lukakus fee. Given the general discruntlement on his laxk of work rate, I think 90 mill was good business. Before people claim EFC folded on the fee. One pertinent point Rom was sold early in the window before all the stupidity. The sale of Neymar was the catalyst for all the stupid fees. If Neymar hadn't moved very few transfer fees this year would have exceeded the 90 mill.
Andy Crooks
156 Posted 11/11/2017 at 22:12:18
Tony, you put up posts like #111 which are pertinent and sound. Then you put up other stuff which is fucking mad. If you filtered your stuff there would be some good comment there. But, I suppose with Tony Marsh you get what it says on the tin.
Keep it coming Tony, because, though I mostly disagree with you, your stuff gets a response and is heartfelt.
Neil Cremin
157 Posted 11/11/2017 at 23:45:57
Michael at 65
Has Northern Ireland left the UK, Unless you mean foreign as being non English
Phil Bellis
158 Posted 12/11/2017 at 00:15:26
Ian.. story I was told:
Utd were tipped off about the upcoming Neymar deal by "sources" not unrelated to Lukaku and told to "get in quick"
Could be total bollox but
Dale Rose
160 Posted 14/11/2017 at 12:36:26
Good article, cant really argue with any of it. As usual a lot of differing comments. The only thing I would say is this.

The game has changed, but not for the better. The problem is all about money. Greedy players, greedy managers and greedy owners. Greedy owners I can understand, its the nature of business these days. What it has done is to split football completely. The premiership is a two tier league. The top five or six with their millions to waste, and they do, and teams like ourselves bringing up the nearly men. Sadly that is what we have become over the last couple of decades.

I don't however think that this is a lost cause by any means. We have a good club with a good and noble history and some of the most passionate fans in the game. Everton at the present is a project , we have some exciting young players and a current manager with the heart of a lion. Kenwright and Co all love the club. Mr Moshiri I don't really know much about, but he has some ideas of what he wants from the club. So we have work in progress. Leicester had a great season when they won the Premiership, but it was a one off. These things happen and it is great when they do. I think that this season for stability, next season for top five and the season after to be real contenders. When I say top five I mean a couple of points between fourth and fifth not the gulf last season.

We wont be in a relegation fight or anywhere near this season. What we do have is the opportunity to build and keep a potentially great footballing side.

Paul Ellam
161 Posted 14/11/2017 at 20:39:27
Pellegrini is the man for the task!!

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