It was never the players!

by   |   03/10/2017  29 Comments  [Jump to last]

The only crumb of comfort I have from this horrific mess Koeman has put us in (and it is horrific and so unnecessary) is that players like Jagielka, Coleman, McCarthy, Barry, Barkley, Mirallas, Kone (probably the most derided), McGeady, who have all been cited in the recent past as either finished, will never make it or just not good enough are now nowhere near our first team and not involved in the current fiasco.

Apparently, we needed a clear-out and a host of new signings so we could challenge for a top 4 place.

Well, actually, I wish we had the aforementioned players available right now, underachieving maybe (because of the manager), but they would be doing a damn sight better than the present lot. Although, if you added Pickford, Baines and Keane to those eight players, that's not a bad side. Plenty of pace and width. Bloody hell, it's revolutionary!

It's all about having a good manager who does the right things, picks a balanced team and doesn't keep making unnecessary changes.

Continuity is key.

Add Deulofeu, McAleny, Galloway, Garbutt, Browning, Holgate, Davies, Kenny and others and you can see that our potential is getting destroyed by this manager. Fancy not wanting to keep a player like Barkley at Everton. Why would you replace him with a player who is just the same but with no pace? Any decent manager worth his salt would love to have Barkley and get the best out of him. That's why Chelsea wanted him and Spurs will probably get him.

Koeman is the one who is not good enough and needs to be dropped, dismissed, booted out! The buck stops with the manager, no one else.

FFS what are the board waiting for. Get rid now!

back Return to Talking Points index  :  Add your Comments »


Reader Comments (29)

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer


Jim Wilson
1 Posted 03/10/2017 at 19:27:21
Almost forgot. And Lookman!
Andy Crooks
2 Posted 03/10/2017 at 19:57:14
It was never the players? Jim, I am firmly in the Koeman out camp. However, do you seriously absolve these highly paid men of any blame? Do you think they have given their all? Run for the coach, pressed, fought, been imaginative, taken a chance, asked for the ball, earned their money?

Whatever you think of Koeman, and I, after supporting him, think his time is up, the players have been fucking woeful. Absolutely shameless and utterly fucking woeful. It was never the players, Jim. How on earth can you come out with that?

Chris Leyland
3 Posted 03/10/2017 at 20:09:29
Andy – I agree. It isn't even that they haven't ‘run for the coach' they have displayed zero desire to perform for their employer, their families, the thousands of fans and, above all, their own sense of professional pride.

Whatever any of us think of the manager, the highly paid players ought to hang their heads in shame for some of their performances this season.

Jim Wilson
4 Posted 03/10/2017 at 20:18:11
The blame is with the manager, Andy. He has caused the problem, the lack of confidence, not comfortable on the ball, not sure what they should be doing anymore is all down to the manager. The lack of effort I'm not so sure, they are still trying but it's not enough.

But if you read again I was talking about Jagielka, Coleman, McCarthy, Barry, Barkley, Mirallas, Kone, McGeady. Are all these players plus the present ones woeful? I don't think so, they are suffering because of a woeful management, past and present.

Baines isn't woeful, he is a great professional, Barkley wasn't woeful, he performed under par because the manager didn't know how to manage him. Just two examples.

Simple as that.

Dermot Byrne
5 Posted 03/10/2017 at 20:18:50
Oh us poor little boys. Mummy has told us to go to school and work hard and I just cannot do it as my confidence is so so expensively low. (Insert sob)

I would love to press and pass like the big boys and how the manager says but if I mess up I may get shouted at. Some of those fans may one day turn on me after the manager! At least if none of us try we share the shouts and can blame others and the manager.

In the end, I want my mummy as without her I am an overpaid, potentially good but really a lilly-livered, overpaid waste of fucking shite.

Dermot Byrne
6 Posted 03/10/2017 at 20:20:10
Jim... are you the much needed Mummy?
Jim Wilson
7 Posted 03/10/2017 at 20:22:38
Chris – One of our worst performers, Williams, is trying very hard, he isn't hiding but his confidence is clearly shot. This is what happens when you have a shite manager. It has happened time and time again over the years.

And if a decent manager took over and got us going, suddenly the players would look like they were trying again and would play with a lot more confidence. It's just the way of things.

Dermot Byrne
8 Posted 03/10/2017 at 20:24:12
Aside from my taking the piss out of Jim's one-dimensional, polarised view, you express my view perfectly.

Yet also after that bizarrely I see no reason for this thread apart from freedom of speech and the need for TW to have something when most of us leave it all aside until a week on Wed. Apart from pissed off piss takers of course.

Dermot Byrne
9 Posted 03/10/2017 at 20:27:11
No it isn't Jim. Players like Williams should have enough bottle and self-control to man-up.

And be strong for others when Mummy isn't there.

Or is there a need for a step-mummy bonus?

Chris Leyland
10 Posted 03/10/2017 at 20:55:50
Jim – Have you seen Williams's body language? He is literally hiding under his shirt throughout matches after every error.

These are highly paid professionals, some of them with hundreds of games under their belts. They need to step up, regardless of their opinion of the manager or his tactics.

Dermot Byrne
11 Posted 03/10/2017 at 20:57:36
With ya, Chris L
Jim Wilson
12 Posted 03/10/2017 at 21:05:07
I remember the players under Mike Walker. Nearly all were horrendous. Joe Royle took over and almost immediately it was the same players – different team. They were a shambles under Mike Walker; under Royle, they went on to win a trophy.
Jim Wilson
13 Posted 03/10/2017 at 21:08:15
Unfortunately it doesn't work like that, Chris.

Once the manager has lost his players, they struggle.

Eddie Dunn
14 Posted 03/10/2017 at 21:53:55
Jim – I can't really agree with your theory. Obviously most of us have been underwhelmed at Koeman's tactics and team balance, but the list of players that you would prefer include McGeady, who is doing okay in the Championship, Kone, who was unfortunate to pick up a horrid injury but raely looked like he was going to score.

Barry was a good player but was often done for pace and West Brom aren't exactly motoring at the moment. Barkley is simply infuriating and will find life on the Spurs bench tedious. McCarthy is a sicknote and can't string three games together.

Most of the new boys need time, but the team has been neglected... Baines is struggling, and it pains me to criticise the lad as he has been one of my faves for years, but he gives us nothing offensively.

The board have been too mean and rather than get in quality cover for Coleman and Bolasie, they decided to patch-up with Martina and play anyone on the wing. Baines plugs away but suffers with no specialist left winger in front and no specialist left footed centre back on his right.

Williams is slow and so plays deep. This defensive problem is why Koeman feels he has to put two defensive midfielders in every game. Purely and simply the failure to renew these areas over the last few years is now hurting us. Add the lack of Lukaku and you have the full picture.

Lack of pace, lack of width and no target man equals lack of penetration, lack of belief and low confidence.

Liam Reilly
15 Posted 03/10/2017 at 22:16:10
There's a lot to be said for evolution over revolution, but we've gone gung ho for the latter without replacing key components, which is a recipe for disaster.

Again, I don't fully blame Koeman for that and I suspect neither do the board which is why he has a stay of execution.

Jim Wilson
16 Posted 03/10/2017 at 22:21:43
Eddie, my point is that past players were called for not being good enough; now the present set of players are being criticised.

It has to be more than the players. It's the pathetic management – plain and simple.

Eddie Dunn
17 Posted 03/10/2017 at 22:30:15
Yes, Jim – we are on the same page!
Jim Wilson
18 Posted 03/10/2017 at 22:38:42
One last thing, Eddie. I think you are giving Koeman far too much credit if you think he is thinking about the team as astutely as you!

Two defensive midfielders are played simply because the manager is totally negative. In my opinion.

Drew O'Neall
19 Posted 03/10/2017 at 22:46:56
You lost me at McGeady, mate.
Andy Dempsey
20 Posted 03/10/2017 at 23:15:08
Yes Jim,

Excuse my language but, FFS, of course it's the manager!

Look at Man Utd after Fergie left – do you really think it was the players that did it alone for 26 years? No. It's a relationship.

The players are given belief by the manager, because the manager lets them know he believes in them. It's a difficult job. A charismatic skill that is hard to define, on top of being aware of evolutions in tactics etc etc.

Players aren't that smart, they have to play for the manager, to trust him, and yes, to like/respect him.

However, players are smart enough to know that playing with no wingers is going to mean not really ever getting in behind the other team, creating chances or having meaningful shots on target, and this saps morale.

It's not about pulling your socks up and getting on with it and being professional, in spite of the managers failings, it doesn't work like that. These people are human. It's a relationship, and this one is broken. Plain to see. He's an abrasive character Koeman, and a fucking shite manager. Great player, but forget about that, it's meaningless now.

Pete Clarke
21 Posted 04/10/2017 at 08:12:29
Very true, Andy.

These players could play in any system explained to them but they can't just go out there and play in a non-existent system. They are trying hard I believe but they are confused and don't understand the way he wants and the fear is plain to see.

It does not excuse shit defending having said that but that's another issue. He has one more game for me and he's gone, win lose or draw, because the system will not produce an ounce of decent football.

Jim Wilson
22 Posted 04/10/2017 at 10:02:00
Spot on, Andy, you said it better than I can.
Andy Dempsey
23 Posted 04/10/2017 at 14:53:07
Cheers, Jim.

I really hope he's gone soon. I'm worried that it's going to be a stand-off over whether he's sacked or resigns, which could drag on till around February.

At this point he's sacked and Big Sam comes in and saves us, which I'm not wholly against, but it's still dark times for EFC if that does happen.

My upbeat flip side daydream is that he's sacked now and Rhino is given till the end of the season and does a cracking job with some sparkling football.

Jim Wilson
24 Posted 04/10/2017 at 16:15:25
I hope Unsworth gets the job. He surely will do better, get the players motivated again and keep a settled balanced team. We can see how he does till the end of the season and make the big decision then.

But if Unsworth was getting the job surely it would all have all been taken care of by now

Dermot Byrne
26 Posted 04/10/2017 at 16:21:19
"Professional" footballers Andy. You've started to accept they're spinelessness.
Stan Schofield
27 Posted 05/10/2017 at 17:19:45
Both the manager and the players have a responsibility to do their best, and are (or should be) accountable when they don't. The manager has the greater responsibility, since his man-management and tactics generally have a larger bearing on the team's performance than any individual player does.

I think it's wrong when players apparently 'down tools' when they want the manager out, because they have a duty to perform to us supporters who pay good money to watch. We lose out.

Overall, if you get the management right, the players are likely to perform well. So in practical terms, it's really down to the management. And of course the organisation and culture which back the management.

Trouble with Everton is, it seems we have a problem with organisation and culture. We're not winners anymore, not like we used to be. So even when we change the manager for a better one, there's every chance that he won't get the backing needed to really make us very good. For instance, our best players will be sold, often to Man Utd., for profit, which trumps any desire for 'greatness' or 'glory'. The latter things are mainly for us supporters to pine for.

All-in-all, I no longer associate Everton with terms like School of Science and Nil Satis Nisi Optimum. They belong to yesteryear, when we strove to be the best. If and when we truly start trying to be the best again, through a culture that really wants this, then I'll believe that the motto on those royal blue jersies should belong there.

Peter Fearon
28 Posted 06/10/2017 at 13:45:35
Some of the people who are now calling for Koeman's head are the very same who were calling him our savior from Martinez. I don't particularly like him but he needs time to make this work and the team needs a target man. There were similar calls for Pocchetino to be sacked a couple of seasons ago but cool heads prevailed and no-one is doing that now. This could still be a successful season if Koeman is given the opportunity to mould this group into a team.
Steve Ferns
29 Posted 06/10/2017 at 13:53:35
I would agree with you Peter if I could see a plan. Maybe if he was getting these results and a third of the team was kids, we would mostly accept it in the name of getting the kids experience and trying to have some progress.

I cannot see any progression at all. We are going backs fast, and we have spent £150m to do so. Meantime, our best player is off for a pittance, and Ron isn't willing to do anything to stop it.

Stan Schofield
30 Posted 06/10/2017 at 16:36:33
Peter@28: When Koeman arrived, I was one of those people who were convinced he was the man, the real deal, based on his obvious expertise as a former player (and potential to lead by example), plus his experience at Southampton, in particular his defensive expertise much needed after Martinez.

In other words, it was 'reasonably foreseeable' that he would get us going nicely, not just 'hope' that this would be so. However, it is not wise to ignore accumulating evidence, which unfortunately points to my initial assessment being wrong. That evidence tells me his tactical expertise and man-management are not as good as I initially supposed, to the point now where I consider it unlikely he will turn us around to an acceotable level.

I believe he should go asap.

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

» Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.




© ToffeeWeb