The Everton midfielder will undergo treatment back on Merseyside in a bid to be fit for the Blues' trip to Crystal Palace after the international break.
Reader Comments (157)
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
1 Posted 08/11/2017 at 20:44:23
3 Posted 08/11/2017 at 21:12:48
4 Posted 08/11/2017 at 21:14:49
5 Posted 08/11/2017 at 22:03:30
6 Posted 08/11/2017 at 22:52:28
(I think the world of him before anyone has a go but still, oh dear, Tom!)
7 Posted 08/11/2017 at 22:58:02
8 Posted 08/11/2017 at 23:24:18
9 Posted 08/11/2017 at 23:32:21
10 Posted 08/11/2017 at 23:36:56
Doesn't always go right for him, might lose the ball or his sometimes inventive passes go astray but he's back trying to win the ball.
He is an irritant. Driving forwards, defending, blocking...
Quality player and I wish Barkley was in our team because the pair suit each other as no side wants two midfielders coming at you and playing passes thus creating space for one another.
Anybody calling him out doesn't understand his role and the importance of what he does compared to our rather more agricultural midfielders.
11 Posted 09/11/2017 at 07:44:32
After all he is only 21 and has more time to develop . ;-)
12 Posted 09/11/2017 at 08:23:29
13 Posted 09/11/2017 at 08:28:21
Look at the likes of Dele Alli or Paul Pogba. These lads are typical of what The Premier League is all about: Power, Pace, Height, Physical Presence. The days of the Alan Ball, Peter Reid type player has well gone...
Tom Davies won't be in the Everton side once we get a decent manager. The Premier League is too quick for him. Sorry, Guys.
14 Posted 09/11/2017 at 08:29:41
He could be the driving force of our midfield for anything up to 15 years.
15 Posted 09/11/2017 at 08:33:25
16 Posted 09/11/2017 at 08:36:57
17 Posted 09/11/2017 at 08:56:58
The likes of you hold this club back. Accepting average players as though they are world beaters just because they are local lads. It is Kenwrighitis all over. Davies scores a great debut goal against Man City last season and he dines out for life on it at this club. Remember Cadamateri?? Tom has been worryingly poor this season a lack of pace and a quick brain being the main reasons.
Get a grip and think about it without the Blue Blinkers on. If Tom isn't a top 4/6 player, he isn't good enough for us. I thought we were thinking big, going places these days? Typical response from a dreamer.
18 Posted 09/11/2017 at 08:59:15
Perhaps he has also been mismanaged and whoever you think should be manager today will really help Tom develop?
19 Posted 09/11/2017 at 08:59:15
Perhaps a quick look at this link might help put height and build into perspective. If link doesn't work it's about Pirlo. Not tall, not much pace, probably a liability for most teams, but he did ok. :) Tom will be fine.
20 Posted 09/11/2017 at 09:00:33
21 Posted 09/11/2017 at 09:03:02
Everyone loves talent, it's the second greatest gift that can be bestowed on anyone (maybe its first?) but this kid has got the greatest gift, imo. He's 19 and he never lets his head drop, no matter how many things he does wrong.
I've seen senior players go hiding, but it's not in Tom's make-up. He's not the best, but he has got the best belief in himself and, along with Jonjoe Kenny, they have the type of attitude that Everton haven't had since little Tim Cahill left.
The club needs this scouse heartbeat because, although Tony Marsh is half right about the way football has gone, do these players have that true feeling for their team that our young kids have got?
It will hopefully drive them on and make them much better players, in a similar way that it worked for Man Utd in the early nineties. Holgate looked the much better footballer but who would swap him for Jonjoe's heart right now? Same with Tom Davies, a kid with so much to learn, but I think he's already got the greatest gift.
22 Posted 09/11/2017 at 09:05:44
23 Posted 09/11/2017 at 09:08:23
24 Posted 09/11/2017 at 09:08:49
I agree, his form is not the best this season. He is one of 3 or 4 teenagers starting most games in a side full of seasoned internationals who have been a lot worse than Tom.
25 Posted 09/11/2017 at 09:09:55
1. Tom Davies
2. Beni Baningime
Let's give them a bit of slack before we write them off.
Regardless of whether we're a top 4 side or not, they've obviously got massive potential to be starting Premier League games at that age.
26 Posted 09/11/2017 at 09:14:24
"The days of the Alan Ball, Peter Reid type player have well gone..."
"Do you think Davies would get in the Spurs, Man City or Chelsea sides?"
Do you think Alan Ball wouldn't?
27 Posted 09/11/2017 at 09:15:52
28 Posted 09/11/2017 at 09:20:48
I'm under no illusions that he's not the finished article by any stretch of the imagination, and my blue-tinted glasses cannot stomach watching Barkley; however, to start saying he'd be dropped if a decent manager came in is complete and utter drivel.
His effort and determination are second to none and, with the right players around him, he can be top drawer. It's well known the likes of Chelsea were sniffing around him in the summer and I imagine that'll be the case each window until we show the same determination and ambition as he does at the Club.
29 Posted 09/11/2017 at 09:20:49
30 Posted 09/11/2017 at 09:22:43
I think that he has been playing olay so far not great but still trying and putting in effort. Does that mean I wish to hold Kenwright's hand and skip joyfully into the sunset with him? Because I can assure you I don't.
To say that a fan is holding the club back is twisted logic. Should he stand on the terrace and scream like a banshee: 'Tom, you're SHITE, LAAAH!!!'
Not sure about the Katie Hopkins comparison based on that post more Peter Hitchens, all spleen and vitriol.
Best go, I need to polish my blue blinkers.
31 Posted 09/11/2017 at 09:23:25
32 Posted 09/11/2017 at 09:25:19
If you are good enough you are old enough (true).
If a player is expensive he is not an assured success (also true).
Reality is that quality is like cream it rises to the top. Everton have a good record of bringing youngsters through and that's great. However, if the books balance, then any youngster in the first team should be the best there is in his respective position.
Davies, Dowell, Kenny, Baningime, Walsh, etc should only be played if they are the best firstly within the club playing roster and secondly, if there are no viable better options in the market.
I think this is the dilemma between Moshiri and Kenwright. Moshiri believes you can by success (and you can). Kenwright feels success will come, eventually, if you persevere with the old-school values. Sometimes it does (aka Leicester) but very infrequently.
This is the background of the new manager's appointment. Nouveau riche vs historical association. Is there some middle ground? I hope so, but in the long run, cash will in.
33 Posted 09/11/2017 at 09:30:44
34 Posted 09/11/2017 at 09:56:27
So Aguero is better than Messi?
35 Posted 09/11/2017 at 10:01:49
36 Posted 09/11/2017 at 10:02:59
37 Posted 09/11/2017 at 10:21:38
39 Posted 09/11/2017 at 10:35:01
Okay, it's all about opinions but the guys to criticise are the seasoned pros who should be establishing a solid base for the youngsters to work from not the youngsters who are trying to do a man's job with zero help from the senior players.
Lay off Tom, please he will be a great player for us!
40 Posted 09/11/2017 at 10:50:16
Like it or not, the Premier League is all about power, pace and physical presence. Sandro is finding out all about it...
For those shouting "Aguero" well, he ain't a midfielder. We are discussing midfielders here... Doh!!!
41 Posted 09/11/2017 at 10:51:42
Why is that some fans reserve special abuse for lads who have come through the ranks at EFC?
He's fast becoming my favourite player at the club - incidentally, he was linked with a move to Chelsea in the summer too! I also believe he would get games at clubs in the top 6, maybe not a guaranteed starter, but he would not look out of place in any team in the Premier League.
42 Posted 09/11/2017 at 10:51:47
On a separate point, many thanks for referring to me as 'lad'. As these days an increasing number of youngsters offer me their seat on the bus/train, any suggestions that I might still be young are much appreciated.
43 Posted 09/11/2017 at 11:24:57
Pace is harder to find measurements for but I'd wager he is as quick as a few of those players.
I'm not saying that Tom Davies is a top 4/6 player necessarily at the moment, but then we are not a top 4/6 team. For me, despite not being at his best, he has still been one of our better midfielders this season and if nothing else he certainly shows an exemplary attitude. Until we have a team with the likes of Pogba and Alli to pick from, then Tom Davies should absolutely be one of the first names on the teamsheet for me and one day, if he develops his all-round game, maybe he will be able to withstand comparisons to the top midfielders in the Premier League.
44 Posted 09/11/2017 at 11:34:13
I don't get the obsession in wanting Barkley to sign a contract. He has been offered a deal and refused it, let's move on.
45 Posted 09/11/2017 at 11:35:43
46 Posted 09/11/2017 at 11:39:58
47 Posted 09/11/2017 at 11:42:57
Barkley has the skill to turn and run at defenders but needs to then play the ball. He has become too indecisive.
I would love the two to play together for Everton but I think, unless we get a top class manager before January, in his own head he's better off elsewhere.
And yes, they would both get in any of the top Premier League teams. Maybe not as first choice but they would play plenty of games. Winks, Delph, Couqeline, Ferdaninho, Fellaini, to name a few that are given games but could replace.
48 Posted 09/11/2017 at 11:55:18
Dear old Tony Marsh... well, well, well.
Tom's goal, going from one end of the pitch to the other, out-muscling and out-pacing YaYa Toure, and scoring one of the most memorable goals in Goodison history against Man City... shows he has the pace, power and presence to make it in the Premier League.
One of his strengths is to see things instantly and react instantly that is the real speed of thought at top level. This is what Man City are doing and why Pep has been linked with him.
49 Posted 09/11/2017 at 12:29:27
50 Posted 09/11/2017 at 12:46:27
It seems nowadays if a kid isn't pulling up trees 100% of the time at 18 then he won't be good enough. Look at the likes of Kane, Alli, even Vardy who didn't become a Premier League player until 29. Hell, even your idol Osman didn't make his first team debut until he was 23 and he turned out alright (regular in a top-5 team at the time).
51 Posted 09/11/2017 at 13:29:57
You are embarrassing yourself. Davies has already achieved more than 99% of 19-year-olds trying to make it at the top end of the game.
You're criticism of Davies's performance against Watford is myopic. The kid was having one on Sunday, all teenagers do. He wouldn't have needed anyone to tell him that, but he has the heart of a fucking lion... even now, as a far from fully developed teenager.
Instead of talking nonsense, go back and look at the Watford game again. When their (for the moment) more composed mature and fully developed midfield players had run their race, young Tom was still hunting and getting the victory.
In a period of soulless, lifeless Zombie football, this kid has stood out like a fucking lighthouse. He never hides, never gives up and never stops trying. These are qualities few if any of today's young footballers possess; he is not short on skill either, as we have all seen. This kid will be a Premier League player as long as he stays healthy; how far he will go is impossible to say... but his attitude and natural ability give him every chance.
You might want to get back to championing Big Sam for the job at least then you won't need to concern yourself with the development of our young midfield players. They'll be redundant as the missiles are launched over their heads.
Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth...
52 Posted 09/11/2017 at 13:57:40
Why are all your opinions so negative and idealistic? We don't have players of top 6 calibre, but we have talented youngsters with bags of potential.
Get behind the players for a change and stop spouting your negative drivel, Rodney.
53 Posted 09/11/2017 at 13:59:06
I have read ToffeeWeb contributions over the years, and (now and then) posted comments myself; I get the impression that, when things are going reasonably, well you are conspicuous by your absence, and now that things are not so good, you have re-emerged.
While I may agree with some of the arguments you put forward, I strongly disagree with the manner in which you deliver them. It seems to me that you take pleasure in promoting controversial issues, which in turn leads to heated debate, and (more often than not) personal abuse.
A few years ago (if memory serves me right), the recipient of such abuse was a chap named Richard Dodd; it appears now to be the turn of Steve Ferns. This is likely to be the only post that you and I will share, because I have no desire to become involved in a war of words a situation that I believe you relish.
55 Posted 09/11/2017 at 14:55:50
I would say right now that Given his age, he is the best footballer we have had for years. The only thing he lacks is the positional sense.
Love the lad and hope he becomes our captain.
56 Posted 09/11/2017 at 15:05:21
He reminds me of Dave Hickson who literally did sweat blood for the club many times in his career.
57 Posted 09/11/2017 at 15:18:16
He's only 19 but I'd still prefer him ahead of Schneiderlin, Besic, Klaassen and Gueye all of whom are vastly more experienced internationals!
58 Posted 09/11/2017 at 16:13:25
61 Posted 09/11/2017 at 17:23:55
62 Posted 09/11/2017 at 17:25:05
Once the 1st team starts cooking on gas, and it will happen, these youngsters, especially Davies, will really show what they can do on a consistent basis. In a way, Dowell and others are a little fortunate to be gaining experience eksewhere, whilst the 1st team is in the current situation.
Let's just get behind these lads, they give their all.
63 Posted 09/11/2017 at 17:35:58
64 Posted 09/11/2017 at 17:38:09
Don't know what you are on about mate... If you mean calling our fan base delusional and dreamers, I have included myself in that also?
As for this thread, please show me where I have made any personal reference towards any fellow contributor... If you can't, then please pipe down.
65 Posted 09/11/2017 at 17:40:06
66 Posted 09/11/2017 at 17:40:23
Whoa, wait, did I just write that?
67 Posted 09/11/2017 at 17:43:37
68 Posted 09/11/2017 at 17:47:28
Most of us who've been around a while are familiar with his MO and it does not change. He makes ridiculous predictions and never owns up when he's wrong. He "gives up" on a weekly basis, but it does not stop him coming back to dole out more of his own particular misery about the club he says he loves. I could go on and on characterizing his posting style... but to call him a WUM crosses a line, in my opinion.
Are you really a WUM if you actually believe what you are posting? Call me a fool, but I suspect, having read hundreds of posts from him, there is no way he's putting on an act to just wind people up. In fact, descending to that level, Brent, I find rather disappointing from you, to be honest. You do this, I believe, so you can more easily reject anything he says, and to my mind, that rather goes against the idea of open debate on these forums.
Forgive me for being cynical, but you cannot say that he is too far removed from at least a few other Evertonians you know, surely? Or are all of your mates sunny-side up types who "only look for the positives"?
As I've commented before, those of that persuasion will always have issues with those from the other end of the spectrum. Some books even say the two should be kept well apart as they will never agree, given their polarized positions. I say that's something you have to embrace on a forum like this, and not seek to shut down just because you don't like what he's saying, or the way that he says it.
69 Posted 09/11/2017 at 17:48:11
"I get the impression that, when things are going reasonably, well you are conspicuous by your absence, and now that things are not so good, you have re-emerged."
A very astute observation.
70 Posted 09/11/2017 at 17:50:51
Time will tell about Davies. Gush all you want and embrace hard graft all you want but the Premier League is getting faster and physical presence and power are going to become even more of a commodity.
Look at the difference in players from say even just 10 years ago. All sports are now being based on more size, more power, more speed. Davies will not suddenly develop another 2 ft and a bit of Hussain Bolt pace, will he?
I hope the kid has something in the locker we have yet to see... I'm not so sure and not see easily sucked in to the hype like most.
Danny Cadamatteri, Micheal Branch, Micheal Ball, Jack Rodwell, James Vaughan etc etc etc... I've heard it all before, mate. Even believed in it myself.
It's a tough league to make an impact in when you are small and slow that's all I am saying.
71 Posted 09/11/2017 at 17:54:36
72 Posted 09/11/2017 at 18:08:42
I believe one of the problems he has had this season is playing in a number of different positions due to the incorporation of Sigurdsson and Rooney in particular and occasionally Gana and Schneiderlin as the preferred defensive midfield partnership.
I think the different setups now have him confused but it's nothing a good manager can't sort out.
With the way Schneiderlin has performed and behaved, I think we'll see a Gana & Davies defensive midfield setup which IMO is his best position.
Tom will go on to have a great career that's my opinion.
73 Posted 09/11/2017 at 18:15:03
They are more like Sterling, Silva, Coutinho, Wilshire, Ozil, Iwobi, Mata, Hazard, Erikson, Kante, Gana, Lanzini, Arter, Shelvy.... The list is endless. All players compare to Davies in that they play in and around midfield.
The speed of the game they play is for the most part in their head; their ability to take players out of the game and technical accuracy is used to forsake the physical advantages of others.
Sure your defensive midfielder might be a bigger fella but not always. They have high energy and good movement; their ability to keep a fast tempo is the key. Davies has all of those attributes and, like the team, he has suffered this season. He is less assured and gone is the one-touch wall he was when Barkley was in the team. Coincidence?
To criticise an emerging player with so much yet to give in the context of our season is, well, confounding. Pit him against many of our squad this season who are falling way below of the standards they are capable of in comparison. Laughable stuff, He has more assists than most of the team this season.
Pair him with Sigurdsson in front of Gana would be my preference. A very good player with a high ceiling.
74 Posted 09/11/2017 at 18:17:07
75 Posted 09/11/2017 at 18:17:51
I have my own corporate tickets mate. Don't need to blag anything...
Were you not telling us how great Koeman was about 5 weeks ago? Shows you how much you are on the ball with your views.
76 Posted 09/11/2017 at 18:21:05
77 Posted 09/11/2017 at 18:23:06
He was terrible in that game. He was hitting the ball out of play from simple passes, he was getting beat in tackles, and he was generally having a bad time of it.
Why did I rate him so badly on the back of a bad game? Well, my view of that game was we were clearly second-best. The players had their heads down and gave up after 1-0. All but Davies. He kept running. He kept getting on the ball. He kept demanding the ball. He kept trying to make passes and make things happen. We turned it around and got back to 1-1 and it was all down to Davies for me. He never hides, no matter what. He's not playing well, so he rolls his sleeves up and tries even harder to play well.
His passing can be sublime. He's got vision, he's got touch, he's got finesse. But remember guys, he is actually a defensive midfielder. He is a No 4, that's where he has always played. He is a good tackler, let's not forget him getting stuck into the massive Yaya Touré. He will tackle anyone.
But he is a kid. He gets dropped off to training by his mum, that's how young he is. Unlike the modern footballers, he's an intelligent lad with Grade A A-Levels. He is like no footballer before him, despite his 70s throwback looks.
Davies can get bigger and stronger, he's 19, so he will fill out. He will also get quicker. He hasn't finished growing. He will develop much more physically.
As for being too small, I despair. I assume anyone saying that is a proponent of Sam Allardyce? He's actually 180 cm tall, or 5'-11" in old money. Are you serious?
The greatest central midfielder of the last 50 years was just 168 cm tall. He ripped every side in the world apart at a time when every team was going for bigger and stronger and completely changed football for the last 10 / 15 years as a result, winning 8 league titles and 4 Champions League titles amongst other things.
The bottom line is Tom Davies can only get better.
78 Posted 09/11/2017 at 18:29:25
79 Posted 09/11/2017 at 18:30:00
I partly agree with Tony in that the Premier League "in the main" is about power and pace. A good big 'un will always beat a good little 'un as they say. But there are exceptions to that in the likes of Silva, Aguero and the like.
Tom's learning his trade, he'll do great things sometimes and he'll make mistakes sometimes.
80 Posted 09/11/2017 at 18:31:29
Don't you know yet, mate you're already in hell!
81 Posted 09/11/2017 at 18:32:06
82 Posted 09/11/2017 at 18:34:39
83 Posted 09/11/2017 at 18:34:44
84 Posted 09/11/2017 at 18:37:04
Don't mistake his skill and technique for him being a natural attacking player. He's at his best getting the ball deep and getting the team to attack.
85 Posted 09/11/2017 at 18:41:39
Look at the present alternatives in midfield: they are all slow, one-dimensional, predictable and totally out of form. Davies may well make wrong decisions, may well have an off-game... but then look at our so-called experienced internationals.
At least Davies will not hide. Right now, an out-of-form Davies is ten times better than an out-of-form Gueye, Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson et al.
A few more young, if possible local, eager lads introduced slowly into the first team can only be beneficial both to themselves and the Club.
86 Posted 09/11/2017 at 18:42:31
Is there no end to my suffering?
87 Posted 09/11/2017 at 18:44:15
The whole team has been guilty of far too many passing and tackling errors which has made so many teams look like world beaters against Everton; when this happens in midfield, it has created much easier offence for opponents. Everton have looked wide open almost every time an opposing team attacks.
88 Posted 09/11/2017 at 18:45:13
Afraid not, mate. Remember "Once a Blue" etc, etc. .
89 Posted 09/11/2017 at 18:46:02
The best player in the world right now is just 170 cm and 72 kg, and not exactly bulging with muscles.
90 Posted 09/11/2017 at 18:48:30
He also did well in the false No 10 position against big sides, where his job is to stop the opposition deep playmaker from getting on the ball, smothering him, and making him be on the back foot.
Davies has lots to learn, and it's essential he has a decent coach to help him learn it.
91 Posted 09/11/2017 at 18:48:38
92 Posted 09/11/2017 at 18:49:21
93 Posted 09/11/2017 at 18:56:10
I personally prefer people like you writing in the manner in which you talk. It's real. Those taking offence must go to the match or the ale house with cotton wool in their ears... but you are miles away about young Davies
There is a real difference between Tom Davies and the others you are comparing him with. He has "it" and by "it" I don't mean world class ability, I don't even mean top class ability. I mean he doesn't know how to quit, his head doesn't go down. He competes for everything, he fears nobody.
As I said earlier, he did have a poor game on Sunday, but with players like him, you always have a shout; when others are calling it a day, he wants more. Despite his poor showing on Sunday, I don't believe we could have won the game if he wasn't on the pitch.
Start counting them, lad. There'll be plenty more days when his spirit hauls this team of soft arses over the line. This is a little street fighter and he will grow to become a bigger street fighter.
94 Posted 09/11/2017 at 18:59:37
To put this in perspective, Davies is 12 cm taller than the Premier League's best defensive midfielder, the double Premier League champion, and so called one-man midfield, N'Golo Kante. So can we accept his height is a non-issue?
95 Posted 09/11/2017 at 19:05:09
96 Posted 09/11/2017 at 19:06:36
John Mc @ 53 has a good memory, Marsh first appeared as a 'balance' to Richard Dodd whose love for David Moyes and ridiculous positivity about all things Everton so outraged posters that he allegedly lost his council job, having been reported to Sefton Council for wasting public money!
During one of Moyes's worst troughs, his one-eyed support of his hero even had search parties out looking to 'reason with him' at his beloved Freshy.
Oh, such lively times, I'm almost disappointed that Davey chose West Ham to relegate rather that us!
97 Posted 09/11/2017 at 19:10:55
On Sunday, Tom had a poor game in my opinion for the simple reason he was trying to do too much. He was everywhere, fighting for his club and at times he was getting in people's way, trying to do their job as well as his own; he needed an experienced player to tell him to calm down. He got over-excited wanting to get Everton back in the game, and in the end he had a part in helping us to win; he should learn from this match.
As you say, Darren, he will become a player Evertonians will love having him play for our club and he will get to be a bigger and better player for the Blues. I also agree that Tony Marsh loves Everton and is a good Bluenose.
98 Posted 09/11/2017 at 19:13:18
Tony set them straight with a nice little history lesson about social displacement after the war, and I found out, from one of the things that he said that my own grandparents were actually part of the social displacement which is why we ended up in Huyton.
99 Posted 09/11/2017 at 19:15:25
100 Posted 09/11/2017 at 19:16:41
101 Posted 09/11/2017 at 19:16:42
102 Posted 09/11/2017 at 19:18:16
Like I said, time will tell. I have seen too many future world beaters fall by the wayside at Everton. I seriously hope Tom does make it.
He appears to have gone backwards this season... maybe it's Koeman? I don't know... but anyone who can't see this is fooling themselves.
103 Posted 09/11/2017 at 19:20:14
Despite this, young Tom created a cracking assist for Niasse against Bournemouth, and he made another sublime pass to Lennon against Watford to win our decisive penalty.
This team should be built around him.
104 Posted 09/11/2017 at 19:32:11
Koeman has played this kid here, there and everywhere so as to avoid upsetting his tackling machines. That can't have helped his progress.
There seems to be a reluctance to give our mistake-ridden ducklings time to become Swans. Two years ago, John Stones was being absolutely fucking murdered on here. The philistines were blind to his potential. They highlighted every error, even when he was playing for England. (I guess he didn't boot it far enough for their liking.) They were over the moon when we traded him for Williams and still banked a fortune.
After hearing very favourable comments about Stones recently, I read that Pep adores him. I watched him give a near faultless performance against Arsenal, every time he touched it he turned defence into attack. He is well on the way to becoming a very fine swan indeed. The best in the world... and we are stuck with Ashley fucking Williams.
105 Posted 09/11/2017 at 19:44:24
By the way, how many games will you give Allardyce? Also, how about giving a link to the last good thing you have ever had to say about our club?
It' s not hard to sit on the wings, bitching. I know that because I did it with Moyes and Martinez.
So, what do you suggest as the way forward? Sam Allardyce? Is that fucking it?
106 Posted 09/11/2017 at 19:59:35
Will he blossom? Don't know and neither does anyone else.
He's got loads of guts, and a fine eye for a pass when in form, which will take him a long way but he'll need more than that of course.
We can only hope.
107 Posted 09/11/2017 at 20:01:48
If you have been following recent threads, you will know that I am in my 80th year and have been attending Goodison since 1948. I appreciate that the game has seen many changes in that time, some for the better. but unfortunately some for the worse.
In your post, I'm afraid you touched a nerve when you referred to the false Number 10 position. I've heard on TV commentators praising a player with Number 22 on his shirt, as being the ideal Number 10. Brendan Rodgers, when he was at Liverpool, even had a false Number 9 in his team... why should we not go all the way and refer to all positions by their numbers? although I shouldn't fancy seeing Seamus in the number 2 position (if you get what I mean).
I come now to the player who shoots with his favourite left foot, when I played I sometimes had two left feet, but I can't say I had a favourite. Another one is "There's only one team going to win this game" do they think we don't know that?
If you give something away, isn't that classed as a gift? And if you sell something at a bargain price, aren't you letting it go cheaply? If so, how can a player give the ball away cheaply?
You may think that it's not something to get upset about but to a "dinosaur" who was brought up on full-backs, wing-halves, centre-halves, wingers, inside-forwards and centre-forwards, it gets a little confusing at times
To finish off my little rant, Old Timers like me will remember the W formation (you may have to ask your Dad or your Granddad about that). Meanwhile, I'll try to get my head around the Diamond and Christmas Tree systems.
Just trying to bring some light relief to a rather sombre period in our Club's history. The nurse will be around with the tablets in a few minutes.
108 Posted 09/11/2017 at 20:11:44
For example, it's not enough to say 'defensive midfielder'. Is it a Lee Carsley, a Kante? a Pirlo? or a Xabi Alonso?
Lee Carsley played in front of the back four and an old-fashioned anchor. Kante hunts the ball, intercepts, tackles and closes down. Pirlo is a graceful passer of the ball launching attacks from deep. Xabi Alonso is a much more direct quarterback-style defensive midfielder.
All played the same position, in very different ways, so sometimes we need to refer to their numbers to explain it a bit better. Do read the book though. It's superb and will make you see similarities from your youth to now, that you hadn't thought of before.
109 Posted 09/11/2017 at 20:12:54
Are we still on for the Atalanta game?
110 Posted 09/11/2017 at 20:18:59
111 Posted 09/11/2017 at 20:32:14
He seem to have a bit like a headless chicken syndrome trying to get all over the field. Not sure what job he is being given by the managers (Koeman or Unsworth) but feel all of the good things are going from his game.
I feel he is a bit too tenacious at times now and that is taking the creativity from his play. He needs to get back to his A game and start threading those balls through to the attackers again.
Good luck, Tom.
112 Posted 09/11/2017 at 20:39:58
It's not the numbers that baffle me, it's the false numbers, although that really shouldn't be the case, because I've seen my fair share of false dawns.
I must confess that, when I go to the match, I see 10 outfield players, pitting their wits against the opposition's 10, and I view the game as a sport and not as a science, which I feel many of today's supporters do, because of the television coverage, and the (so-called) experts' in-depth analyses.
I believe that any two contributors to ToffeeWeb could sit in a studio and tell the world what the players should have done, eg, they should have kept the ball out of one net, and put it in the other net. It may surprise you to know that I have never missed a tackle or spurned a goalscoring chance from my seat in the Park End.
114 Posted 09/11/2017 at 20:45:03
"Are you really a WUM if you actually believe what you are posting? Call me a fool, but I suspect, having read hundreds of posts from him, there is no way he's putting on an act to just wind people up. In fact, descending to that level, Brent, I find rather disappointing from you, to be honest. You do this, I believe, so you can more easily reject anything he says, and to my mind, that rather goes against the idea of open debate on these forums".
First, I was open enough to post on open forum rather than just "Flag the comment" in private, as it were.
Second, it's not Tony's substantive views I find objectionable, and my post wasn't so I could "more easily reject anything he says" - I don't see how it possibly could.
My objection is to his sheer level and frequency of ad hominem attacks on other posters. I think that demeans ToffeeWeb.
115 Posted 09/11/2017 at 20:46:14
The club and the team have been poor for a long time, mainly due to Kenwright. If I'm honest, I am still fuming over the King's Dock and will never forgive Boys Pen Bill for that.
David Moyes, I believe, is (with the blessing of Bill Kenwright) a major factor in the way the mindset and persona of the club and its fans became so dumbed down. It's as if we have all been brainwashed into accepting mediocrity. Something I refuse to do. Moyes, in 11 years, never won an away game at any of the then big 4. I hated him being our manager.
I've seen the best and worst of Everton and I was on to Koeman last season, even when we were winning games at home. It was obvious Lukaku was all we had. We couldn't win away from home. The football was awful.
Our fans wouldn't have it – called me a moaner etc. I was right about Moyes and I was right about Koeman. He let Romelu leave without a fight. I hated Koeman being our boss.
When I feel things are looking good and we the fans stop eating up the crap we are served up both on and off the field, I will let you know, mate.
116 Posted 09/11/2017 at 20:52:07
Anyway enough about Tom Davies, I reckon this other kid Benni, is going to be just as good, so imagine Ross Barkley, stayed at Everton, and became the player we all hope he can be.
Another holy trinity? Im only messin Tony M, dont take me seriously mate!
117 Posted 09/11/2017 at 20:53:31
So if playing a team with a Pirlo, you put a defensive player on him to nullify him. Stop Pirlo from hitting his passes and his team has 10 men. The difference being that our guy, particularly Davies, does have skills on the ball and so can actually be positive as well as destructive.
As for the false 9, it's never been better explained than here
118 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:03:16
There's a video on Xavi where he's talking about his influences and raving about Matt Le Tissier. Xavi loved watching the premier league and obviously enjoyed clips of Le Tiss doing outrageous stuff.
119 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:06:48
NSNO even led to the bloody UK Prime Minister taking the piss out of us.
Can the future live up to our motto? Is Moshiri going to facilitate the delivery of a fantastic new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock within 3 years?
On the field, please lord, let Unsworth be the man to lead us to glory again. We need re-energising on and off the field. Moshiri please don't be another false dawn.
120 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:09:41
Tony (#13), Tom will get better as he has the drive and desire to get better and the talent. Little David Silva is way better than big Pogba and has been sensational for Man City in the Premier League for years. What a midfielder he is.
121 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:16:22
122 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:18:42
123 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:19:50
124 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:25:34
Don't get me wrong, like all U21s keeping their attitude and effort up is just as important as improving their weaker attributes to be a top, consistent professional in any walk of life. Good fortune with injuries and coaches who believe in you are also required.
I believe the hunger and desire are not in question (same for Calvert-Lewin and Kenny). I hope they also get some luck.
125 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:33:51
I put Xavi forwards simply because he came first. He played in the era where the giants ruled and he was the one who changed it before Iniesta came along and they made each other into better players.
Xavi spent his career being told he was too small, too sleight, too slow. He was told he couldn't play as a defensive midfielder as he wasn't a hard man. He proved them all wrong. Iniesta just played on the left wing before Guardiola changed everything and brought him inside.
126 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:34:21
127 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:43:02
I am sure he will have a good solid career, but more than that, I am not convinced.
129 Posted 09/11/2017 at 21:55:02
I agree with everything you said, but stop beating about the bush and just say what you think... ha ha.
130 Posted 09/11/2017 at 22:16:59
Our 1966 team was probably perceived as some kind of inverted W formation. 5 players defending (Wright, Gabriel, Labone, Harris, Wilson) : 2 in ‘midfield' (Scott, Harvey) : 3 in ‘attack' (Young, Pickering, Temple). 5-2-3
But Gabriel could suddenly appear at centre-forward. The full-backs could attack. Scott would move to his preferred right-wing spot. Young would drop deep. Temple would play left-wing or alongside the No 9. It was mobile.
Our 1970 team is renowned for its Holy Trinity midfield. For me it was always 4-4-2, Johnny Morrissey is the forgotten hero of that team, always dropping back to add some muscle, then moving forward to intimidate the opposing fullback with skill and studs.
It was fluid, but also needed discipline. Players like Morrissey, Gabriel and Kendall epitomised those qualities. The best players now do the same, Scholes was magnificent, Beckham worked his socks off, Aguerro and Silva are wonderful. You can play any system you want, but if you have players with talent and a great attitude they can usually fit in. Tom Davies has got those attributes.
131 Posted 09/11/2017 at 22:22:15
He could do with a break in the ressies to get his mojo back but to think he will NEVER make the grade? Can't see how anyone could come to that conclusion ever.
On the contrary, he is one player for whom the sky is the limit.
132 Posted 09/11/2017 at 22:32:57
133 Posted 09/11/2017 at 23:02:19
We are in the same age frame and have seen it all. A lot has changed and not for the better for many reasons but, of course, the main one is money and worldwide TV coverage.
We still follow our club the same way we did when we went in the Boys Pen even though the standards have fallen and the results are poor. The in-depth analysis and the American style reporting of the most useless of stats is boring.
Who cares if one team has had 65% possession in the last 10 minutes. It's meaningless and counts for nothing especially if it's in your own half.
Players are now obsessed in keeping possession at all costs because that's the way they are coached and it doesn't matter if you only have one shot on goal as long as you don't lose.
The play acting is still rife and referees still cannot spot the subtle fouls being committed, especially in the box.
Like everything else in life, we have to adopt to the changes or just not watch at all... but, being die-hard fans, we do no matter what. COYB.
134 Posted 09/11/2017 at 23:06:21
He doesn't have electric pace but he can work on that. He does have quick feet and a quick mind. He looks to go forward. Industrious and when he sets of on a run, it's always very exciting.
He will fill out a little more, he might even grow an inch.
My opinion is that should we retain the services of a certain other Evertonian in the ranks who is taller and can knock people off the ball, Tom will be a delightful foil.
135 Posted 09/11/2017 at 23:07:22
136 Posted 09/11/2017 at 23:12:26
137 Posted 09/11/2017 at 23:49:19
I appreciate that we look back (in our case) through "Royal Blue" as opposed to rose tinted glasses, but I feel that television has created more bar room pundits, and that the game itself has been transformed from sport to science.
I am just glad that I was privileged to watch the beautiful game as it was known, when good solid tackling did not result merit a charge of grievous bodily harm, and players who suffered injury (pre substitute days) played on the wing as nuisance value.
No rolling around feigning injury in those far off days, and no sustaining an injury during a warm up, in fact no such thing as a warm up, just a few minutes kicking in before the game started.
The players you mentioned in the 1966 and 1970 sides were a joy to watch. I take my 13-year-old Grandson to the match, having bought him his first season ticket when he was 6. I hope that he can be telling his grandchildren similar tales, but I'm afraid I won't be around to hear him.
138 Posted 09/11/2017 at 00:26:13
You are right in your view of stats meaning (in some cases) absolutely nothing. I can think of one glaring example: Two seasons ago, Everton travelled up to Sunderland, allegedly enjoyed 72% possession, and lost 3-0.
As you observed, possession in your own half counts for nothing. You may recall (I think it was in the Hotspur comic) a story about a footballer named Nick Smith, "It's goals that count". Just as true now as it was then.
I believe there is a system whereby dogs have chips inserted, thus allowing their owners to locate them should they stray. I think I have a similar chip that dictates, should Everton have a home game, I am compelled to attend. I suspect that you may be cursed in the same manner... the best of luck anyway.
It's 00:17 now so I'll retire to my bed to dream of Ted Sagar, Nobby Fielding, Alex Young, and Roy Vernon, or God forbid, the nightmare that Ronald Koeman has left us with. I hope we can keep in touch via ToffeeWeb, Goodnight.
139 Posted 10/11/2017 at 00:43:58
Plus he had the best title ever for a footy autobiography, Taking Le Tiss.
140 Posted 10/11/2017 at 05:46:11
I don't like Tony's style... but ad hominem attacks by him on other posters? I can't really see anything that meets that specific standard.
Give me some examples of what you mean . Preferably offline in case we incur Lyndon's wrath.
If you'd said he relies far too much on appeals to emotion (the manipulation of the recipient's emotions in order to win an argument, especially in the absence of factual evidence), I'd happily agree... but it's hardly a crime, is it?
"Instead of facts, persuasive language is used to develop the foundation of an appeal to emotion-based argument. Thus, the validity of the premises that establish such an argument does not prove to be verifiable."
A perfect description of Tony's approach to stuff on here! But sorry, I don't think he is setting out to cause as much disruption as possible by goading you or anyone else. However, you appear to react as if that is how you are processing what he posts.
141 Posted 10/11/2017 at 08:41:46
142 Posted 10/11/2017 at 08:43:03
I guess you have taken a look at the number of responses Tony Marsh gets in comparison to the number you get and you are jealous. It's a familiar pattern with you.
The reason he gets lots of responses is because he actually has something to say. It may be insightful, it may be controversial, it may even be shite (see above) but he always has something to say about our club. You seem to spend your time seeking attention by telling ancient jokes that were about as funny as mid-flight engine failure first time around. Asking people what they are having for their tea... or complaining what other people have said.
You do see the difference?
Your high moral standards and attempts to deodorise debate would carry far more credence if you hadn't come on a recent match day thread to tell a "fellow blue" to "STFU" (shut the fuck up).
If you think somebody is wrong, counter their point with solid argument. It's far more effective than shouting for Miss every time somebody in the playground upsets you.
143 Posted 10/11/2017 at 10:24:18
Also, what's your preferred midfield if Davies isn't part of it?
144 Posted 10/11/2017 at 10:58:41
But... the danger of that is TW becomes "beige" and like so much of internet, just a place to back up your own views.
Totally agree with editorial stance but, if you think the manner (not beliefs) of the likes of Darren Hind and Tony Marsh is just how they are as people and in no way contrived, then that is naivety at a new level!
145 Posted 10/11/2017 at 11:06:45
Tell you what, Charlie let's throw a cheeky bid in to Man City and try to get Pep Guardiola here. Better still, let's offer Rooney back to Man Utd and ask for Jose to come down the East Lancashire Road... There is no list of who I want as next manager more like a list of who might accept the job.
Were does this dreamy romantic nonsense end? We are not a big catch or a big club. We still sell our best players every season. So calling for elite managers is as futile as it is idiotic.
As for Tom Davies, I don't have a problem with the lad. At this moment in time, the whole squad is unbalanced so I don't really know what we can do. Sigurdsson is not what we thought and don't get me started on Gueye and Schneiderlin.
What I said about Davies is that I personally don't think he will become this superstar some of our supporters think he will become, due to his lack of pace and lack of physical presence. To me, he looks lost. Apart from the goal v Man City last season, I haven't seen enough from Davies to warrant his elevation to God-like status amongst Evertonians.
Hope this answers your question, Charles?
146 Posted 10/11/2017 at 11:17:29
147 Posted 10/11/2017 at 11:52:56
148 Posted 10/11/2017 at 12:30:15
149 Posted 10/11/2017 at 12:56:51
But I take the point maybe he has a better engine than I thought.
150 Posted 10/11/2017 at 14:18:39
I've never thought of Sean Dyche as "dreamy romantic nonsense" nor have I ever referred to Davies as "godlike".
I think you're way too quick to criticise when you cannot even answer a simple question like who you would like in as our next manager.
151 Posted 10/11/2017 at 17:45:22
Hows that? Not going to happen but hey ho let's all join in the fun and games then.
154 Posted 10/11/2017 at 21:01:07
Tony, reread your own posts. Have you ever in fifteen years said "I was wrong"? Provide a link to it if you have. You haven't got it in you. It is sad to see your nonsense defended on here by some who should know better.
155 Posted 11/11/2017 at 09:57:19
Can't wait for Kieran Dowell to come back into the fold next season. I think he's the most talented player at the club.
156 Posted 11/11/2017 at 13:45:16
After we lost 3-0 to Lyon, when I said we should beg Sam Allardyce to come here, it was more a dig at the current regime and dread state of affairs rather than a genuine request for Big Sam. Jeezus, mate, come on... you can't be that naive.
157 Posted 11/11/2017 at 14:28:53
Andy only lives in Belfast, so he'll have little trouble understanding Scouse wit and absolutely no trouble at all understanding gallows humour.
You were championing Allardyce alright, only now you have come to your senses.
Was it before or after the Lyon game when you calling for "Fireman Sam to come and put the fire out" ?.
158 Posted 11/11/2017 at 14:41:08
Someone just told me its Unsworth and Stubbs, but I dont know how true this is?
159 Posted 11/11/2017 at 16:02:53
160 Posted 11/11/2017 at 16:10:20
Davies is one inch shorter than Gerrard and Lampard were. His passing, positioning and decision making need to improve. None of which has anything to do with pace or being one inch under six foot tall.
161 Posted 11/11/2017 at 16:34:13
Tom Davies is bigger than them all. With 4 years of growing left to beat 6'0" and a lot longer to put on muscle mass. I think he looks quite broad in the shoulders and I expect that he will fill out and become a strong player. Also, watch the Lyon "fighting" again. See it's Tom Davies straight in there to break things up. The lad ain't scared of anyone. watch this vid to see how he three times gets involved, and in a peace-keeping capacity, but putting himself in the line to get whacked, whilst leaving himself defenceless by pushing people away.
I've never been so sure of a future captain by watching a teenager play before.
162 Posted 11/11/2017 at 16:45:18
163 Posted 11/11/2017 at 16:47:41
164 Posted 11/11/2017 at 16:51:04
165 Posted 11/11/2017 at 16:52:21
166 Posted 11/11/2017 at 17:01:06
Yes that's true but that's just shows you the shit we are in.Do you honestly think Any of us want Allardyce FFS what's up with you all? It's s needs must situation we are in.No decent coach/ manager will touch us the position we are in so it was a choice between Dyche, Unsworth Deadly Dave or Fat Sam on short term basis I am going Fat Sam every time.
Suppose you think Anchelotti or Conte or Tuchel or any amount of pathetic shouts are going to come in on a white charger and rescue us..Ha Ha come on Lad were did you grow up.
In an ideal world Allardyce or Dyche or Deadly Dave wouldn't be given a thought.
Thing is we Evertonians and the club are far from being in an ideal world. It's a bit like asking a vegaterian if they had to eat meat would the prefer Lamb or Chicken when the answer would be niether of them.
Add Your Comments
In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.
Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.