Silva to remain in charge for Leicester game

Joe, it would be fantastic. Instead of wanting Silva to be our Pochettino, we could have Pochettino. so what if he does exactly what he did for Spurs, he would leaves us in a position where we can then appoint someone who can win things, which is what Spurs are thinking, regardless of whether Mourinho is the right man.

With all the injuries we've got in midfield at the moment, I feel for any manager that would potentially come in if/when we get rid of Silva.

I would love to see us turn it round like we did against the top 6 towards the end of last year, but personally I can't see it!

The fanbase is equally deluded and partly to blame for continued self sabotage, especially those who shout down any manager within our reach Moyes, Benitez etc.

Why on earth would Allegri, Pochettino or any manager of that ilk touch a club like ours. They have their pick of the Bayern’s and Madrid’s. Utter fantasy.

So instead of swallowing our pride and accepting someone like Benitez, the board will appoint another incompetent just to pander to the fans. I find the whole charade disgusting. Imagine if we had got Rogers... Where would we be now? Something that never would have been allowed due to dinosaur mindsets that are more obsessed with the rs than our own success.

"All those in favour of Moyes return raise your hand"
Cue one little theatre impresario hand in the air.

"All those against"
Cue, every other board members hand in the air.

I think we, very much as fans, are taken totally for granted in this modern era, by the Board, Management and Players alike. If they honestly cared more, the Board would have a reliable barometer on the fans' expectancy, and at least make a Statement of Intent every now and again.

The Manager should / would motivate the players and make them aware that on a cold, wet, freezing game at Brighton that the fans had unstintingly travelled pretty much all day, and wouldn't get back home till midnight just to support them.

None of this is, or has been in evidence recently!

What will Silva have learnt since Norwich that he didn’t learn from all the other games?

This is a waste of time and yet more points dropped. Brilliant

"There’s a big split in the boardroom, with Bill Kenwright on one side and Moshiri on the other. And I think they’re both wanting different things with the manager, and I think that’s a massive problem for them."

So we can assume Moshiri wants to give his man more time, possibly to the Carabao Cup Quarter-final, and Bill wants Moyes in now.

If we have this (supposed) boardroom split, why is our Director of Football (and board member) not the decisive arbitrator in this footballing matter?

Surely at this stage in Moshiri's tenure, Bill Kenwright should be nothing more than a ceremonial figure. Assigned the photoshoots with ex-Everton players, the occasional pitch ceremony, and wining and dining other clubs' directors.

Brands's role as Director of Football is all-encompassing and manager/coach performance being one of his paramount key performance indicators.

At this crucial point in the season, Brands should be giving a progress report to Moshiri (backed up by statistical evidence on the team's performance) concluding that Silva is either the guy to stick with or replace. If he is to be replaced, he should also identify the candidates to take over.

Moshiri then studies the recommendation and, if he agrees, then Brands continues in his designated role as DoF but, if Moshiri disagrees, then Brands's position is untenable. To stay after his recommendations are rejected would relegate his position to that of Chief Scout.

Bill Kenwright should not be anywhere near the decision-making process and he should be told in no uncertain terms to butt out – otherwise, he is out.

Kenwright's "Old boys network" has had its day and should not be allowed to infest the footballing structure that was set up with the appointment of Marcel Brands.

All the signs point to the end of Silva's reign, but as per usual, Evertonians have to endure the media's guessing games and all of the talking heads proferring unwanted and usually ill-informed opinions about everything connected with Everton Football Club.

There's a split in the Boardroom (is there?), the atmosphere at Finch Farm is like a morgue (Is it?), the manager has lost the players etc etc. I'm not particularly bothered about in-house politics or financial issues, but as an ordinary supporter, it is becoming increasingly difficult to be positive about most aspects of the club, especially when, what many of us all pay to watch, the actual football, is aimless, toothless and passionless.

Too frightened to play said Marco following the Norwich debacle, how can this be so? I saw no hungry Lions at Goodison on Saturday, quite a few angry and frustrated supporters but nothing that hasn't been seen before at Goodison, when the team fail to live up to the most basic expectations of the supporters.

It might prove a shrewd move to keep Silva in place, if he was to somehow motivate the players to win a few of the next half dozen fixtures and progress to the Semi-Final of the League Cup, but that doesn't seem likely, as much as I'd love to see it happen. Therefore not replacing Silva is as much of a gamble as appointing a new manager immediately.

Being careful and level headed is fine up to a point but dithering and allowing a cloud of uncertainity to build up could completely derail the season and might end in tears. It's still early enough to rescue the campaign, but drifting along without a word from those that matter doesn't augur well for the team and its supporters.

If anything summed up the current Everton issues, it was the sight of Schneiderlin changing his mind about playing the ball back to Pickford in the first-half last Saturday, he allowed himself to be influenced by the crowd, understandable perhaps, but a player of his experience should do what he thinks is best and not react to the frustrations of the crowd.

I hope the board do what they think is best for the club, and what is best for the club is to have a team that truly represents the fans and does its best to win football matches.

Maybe now Moshiri will do what he should of done months ago after the Sheff Utd game at home and send Brands out to find a new and better manager to replace his beloved Marco.

One thing's for sure if we reach Christmas and find ourselves adrift in the bottom three, the 'Spectre' may come back to haunt us, if Brands can't find Moshiri a replacement, blue bill may yet get his wish of Xmas past.

If Moshri was a dominant personality Bill would have been out the door as soon as the share agreement acquisition reached fruition.

Having said that my belief is if Moshiri was a dominant personality then Bill would never have let him near the front door at Goodison, that was never in his plan.

Everyone in a business has to rowing in the same direction, Moshiri needs to grow a pair bounce Bill out and leave it all to Brands.

Director of football = let Brands do his job.

To me it summed up him as a player and why I would never play the guy and probably why his “performances” will have played a crucial role in Silva getting the chop.

I’m not convinced that BK has that much influence now.

I guess there must be some sort of a rationale for what is going on, but it seems fairly impenetrable to me at the moment.

I have an idea: what about the players putting in a shift on Sunday? Some of them seem to be waiting for the next manager. And one in particular seems to treat everything with a Gallic shrug.

Only a united front will make a difference but quite the opposite threatens the future of Everton.

Getting relegated gives the excuse of not building a new ground.

The majority share holder got shut of Martinez against blue Bills wishes now it seems he is doing the same...

I have detached myself from Everton but read TW every day simply because it amuses and informs me just how mad the world is..

The very fact that the board are arguing over Moyes and Marco tells you all we need to know about were we are going... And its not up...

Beat Leister and mosh will come out and say "what a manager" then we will get twatted by the rs and blue Bill will say we need the ginger one and the whole circus that is EFC carries on.

Either Moshiri brought Brands on to do exactly what you've described as a true DoF, or Brands is the Chief of Scouting as you called him. We shall see, but if the next manager is one of those "always hanging around the EPL" same-old, same-olds, it'll be clear that Brands is the latter. And then will hopefully ask to be released from his contract, since it will be equally clear that Everton wouldn't be honoring the whole "4-year building project" we've claimed.

I hope, as a club, that some options are being drawn up as we speak. Bielsa? Eddie Howe? Who knows, but the tide has gone too far against Silva now. A line has been crossed. Better to just get on with it before it gets even more toxic...

Gutless and cowardly way this disaster is being handled is just unbelievable. Even it is evident that there was not enough foresight or competence to prepare for this eventuality, hanging onto Silva, against the reality of league table, quality of play, against the fanbase cannot be excused.

Interim manager is never ideal but to keep hoping that Silva is somehow a better choice, is mind-blowing. The way this is going, we are in serious, serious danger of relegation.

I am hoping that that the board have someone lined up and are waiting for him to become available. If so, I am praying that Brands is doing the hiring and not Mosh or Bill. Not holding my breath though.

Only at Everton.

Like others, hopefully it will be Benitez.

It's not acceptable for us to find ourselves in a relegation battle.

Either way - a stay of execution on Moshiri's orders is inexcusable, and Kenwright's default position and modus operandi for touting Moyes are both clearly insane and will continue to alienate the fanbase. We need a lift, bump, springboard or whatever, going into December with the current set up has the hallmark of seeing Everton in the bottom three by Boxing Day.

Even then, I'm acutely aware that any of these options carry with it that same risk. FWIW I don't believe we'll be relegated regardless, and that includes the gut-wrenching aspect of Silva seeing out the season.

Peter @65 Monday is not a training day, end of story. Ooooh so he went to Portugal for 2 days. Crucify him. Aren't there enough actual problems without manufacturing outrage over new ones?

If Kenwright likes Moyes so much why doesn't he ditch his Mrs and take Davey Boy to some exotic place in the middle of nowhere and live happily everafter.

Sooner or later you know they will return with Silva at the helm, just when you least expect it, utter humiliation. That's why he has to go.

Maybe Poch has seen our fixture list and fancies coming to the rescue in January or maybe Bill and Mosh in full pantomime season are saying oh yes we will oh no we won't.

“both have publicly disrespected us”

I’m going to assume you’re about 5 years old if that is your only logic for dismissing candidates. Rogers was pretty dismissive of us in the past too, so what. It’s part of the job description to win over your own fans. Do you think the rs would think twice about hiring an ex-blue if he was the best they could get? Would they bollocks.

I’m going to ignore the Bruce comment but hold that thought when Newcastle are in the bottom 3 at the end of the season.

People need to get real, there are only 3 options:

A) Stick with Silva and see the train crash into the mountain.

B) Hire a manager who is obtainable and who would organise us. Benitez, Moyes etc (Would love to add Bielsa to this list, but he never breaks his contract so forget it.) These two however unpalatable would steady the ship and get us organised. We could then go for a higher calibre of manager on our next appointment. It’s no secret how Martinez capitalised on inheriting Moyes’ team in his first season. That is the way forward again.

C) Hire someone with no baggage but track record either. Hughes, Howe, Dyche etc. I don’t see how this is any different to Silva. We will simply be in the same position again. Hughes is scarily a very real prospect as well. His agent is in Moshiri's ear. He also represents Richarlison and Bernard.

Ten Hag, Poch and the rest wouldn’t touch us with a barge pole!

You can watch the Portuguese League for free - check their website to get the right channel on your TV: Link

We sold Gueye, suffering cos of no No 9 goal scorer, but we bought Tosun for £28 million, and Kean for potential — not tried and tested. Go back to Niasse... it goes on and on. A mess.

Four managers and the bits and pieces of four managers' signings. But when you got a theatre impresario Bill sticking his oar into football decisions, with the owner now listening to him, what do we expect? We get a Director of Football at board meetings with Mrs Barrett-Baxendale throwing in her sixpence-worth with Marcel Brands side-lined.

Everton Football Club have become a laughing stock. 52,000 with rail seats to 60,000 at Bramley-Moore Dock?? If they don't sort it out, 10,000, even 15,000 will stop coming; no need for a new stadium.

By 26 December, Burnley we will need Big Sam no doubt. £10million to keep us up.

Just give Big Sam his wish. 4 years, £250million – see if he can give us what he said he could.

Moshri owns like 70% of the Club as this point, there or thereabouts I believe. He's the majority shareholder. That would lead one to believe he's got a similar percentage weight with his Board votes?

OR!

Are the Everton Board By-Laws written as such, that each member has an equally weighted vote when it comes to the Board voting on measures and decisions?

If so, Mosh bought into an organization with his money, and now can be undermined when it comes to making decisions.

Who voted on this measure? Who, on the Board, has voting rights? If there's four members with voting rights, why in the holy hell is Everton run, and their By-Laws set up, to create ties in the voting process, and by extension gridlock?

Then(!), if the four people at this supposed meeting met, and all four have equal voting rights, how did the split go? It HAS to be, Kenwright and DBB on one side, and Moshri and Brands on the other, no?

Someone needs to dig up a copy of the Everton Board By-Laws and see what the process is.

That's the fascinating part of all this, for me.

In the meantime, we're left wallowing while the footballing world chuckles.

We have to get behind the team, we need the points. Plug your nose and cheer - loudly.

This mess portends a very ugly short-term future.

Moshiri controls the club because he only needs 5% of the vote, to get past 75% and change things like the Articles and Memorandum of Association, and his more than 50% means he can vote anyone off the board he wants at the AGM. He can also use his shareholding to call for an EGM. I forget whether that's 50% or 75%.

Been a while since I did Company Law so I'd have to go and look it up if you want a definitive answer.

So, yes technically, the board could screw him over, but he'd simply call an EGM (emergency general meeting) and sack the board and get what he wants done.

He went home for two days.

Shouldn't he be preparing for the next game if he's going to be in charge??

They actually let him fuck off back to Portugal for a few days, leaving us a shorter time to prepare for Leicester?

Has anyone conveyed the seriousness of our position to our Manager before he left the country?

You can't make this shit up. It's negligence at it's highest level, and smacks of people who make TONS of money, sporting an attitude and just getting out of Dodge, responsibilities be damned.

When I have an important job or deadline, I've stayed in my shitty little company until 4 a.m. multiple nights to "get 'er done". One week this August, I didn't even SEE my 10 year old - he was in bed when I got home, and was off to school before I got my hefty 5 hours of sleep waking at 9 am, to go back in and work.

These people are seriously out of touch, and it's really frustrating.

Left for Portugal before a massively important game while we stare relegation in the face?

You have got to be fucking kidding me!

No new manager would want to start with this run of games. There's not much, if nothing, to gain in that run for him.

So, unless you'd let Unsworth take charge for a few weeks which would be extremely unfair on him, why not let the dead man walking suffer for a few more matches. New manager to come after those games.
Somehow makes sense.

Just hate that it would see us give up on a semi final place in the league cup.

Another thing which puzzled me on the weekend, why did the team come out much later then normal for their warming up? And when they came, it was only the 10 outfield players and the subs hardly warmed up at all.
Seemed very odd.

The report that he was in Portugal came from a Portuguese tabloid, it also said that he always did this when there was a break (that doesn't mean every week). That was rubbished on here by Brian, who said he was at Finch Farm on Monday.

I've sat on one board in my entire life. My local Catholic school. It had By-Laws obviously, but the issue of money to buy into the Board clearly didn't apply. Wasn't sure how that worked.

So if I'm reading it correctly, it's Mosh clearly in Silva's corner, with others wanting him out? He must have used his vote to stop Silva from getting the sack, correct?

Dim-witted sorry.

I cooled down, a little (still think they shouldn't have left after that debacle).

I'll try decaf. This whole thing has me riding a tidal wave of frustration.

If BK is really trying to get Moyes in, then he needs to be voted out at the next AGM. I hope the shareholders take him to task over that. There's an AGM coming up isn't there. That will be a real shitstorm.

As for Silva leaving for Portugal, I know I'd have been at Finch Farm. But maybe he was told by Moshiri to go home, get out the country for 2 days and get out of the pressure cooker and come back ready for training on Tuesday? Who knows?

Nobody has any idea whose "side" any of the board members are on. We will find out (maybe) when a new manager is named, or at least when it becomes public that somebody was approached.

Until then, there's no way to know.

Seriously though, sometimes less is more. I remember listening to an interview with a couple of Hull players when he was managing there. They were saying how they never had a day off and it was a bit intense, but they were prepared to do it while it was working and they were winning (or not losing), but when it all goes wrong it becomes claustrophobic very quickly and maybe it's almost impossible to turn around once it goes wrong.

Maybe we're keeping him on to ensure our neighbours nearest challengers get another three points...

Maybe we're in the process of negotiating/finalising things with who Brands wants, as per his DoF role?

I know it's a bit optimistic, but you never know!

Let's face it, Rafa's a bit of knobhead but I'm now like many who would be prepared to give him a chance, because the guy knows what he's doing and we're desperate, but he doesn't strike me as someone who fits Brands choice. Someone like Arteta or Kovac would.

If no successors had been identified before the Norwich capitulation then that’s a serious indictment of the DOF and the board. If the chosen successor has been identified but won’t come until the end of the season, then we either live with Marco or go interim. The interim model has little appeal. Disruption twice over. We saw what happened under Allardyce.

Let Silva keep going until January at least. The December fixtures are not a fair introduction to hand to any new manager. Marco has been incredibly unlucky, as well as incredibly inept at times. In the immediate aftermath of Norwich (and Burnley and Sheffield Utd) it has been easy to call for his head. But after he’s guillotined, what next?

There are lots of calls for “anyone but” until the alternatives are suggested, and then nobody likes them either. At the start of this season plenty of posters said they’d swap 17th place for silverware. Home game in a qf of the Carabao coming up soon...

We’re not where we want to be, but all is not lost. Yet.

This part of your comment:
"He is showing the tactical nous and fight that he showed at Hull getting them relegated, the lacklustre attitude he demonstrated at Watford and now he is presiding over an absolute shit show that we witnessed on Saturday."

I agree with nearly 100%. But that doesn't mean he should've held a practice when it's a day off and not gone to Portugal where for all you know he has family or something.

*crickets*

After 35 years, I'm close to calling it a day... Saturdays & Sundays are too precious.

I don't think he can even speak Japanese. 49.5% career win ratio. If he hits his average that'd put us 5th in the current standings. I'd take those odds.

I don't like zonal marking and his stubborn persistence with certain players is wearing thin. Having said that, in fairness he has also been robbed of key players through injury.

I'm relieved he has not been sacked as yet, particularly if the choice of a new manager is made from that merry-go-round of mediocrity of which Messrs. Moyse, Hughes, Allardyce, Pardew et al permanently reside. It would cost an awful lot of money to terminate his contract and what is to say that a new man could improve on the current situation.

There is no need for panic measures yet. The season is relatively young. It's not pleasant to suffer a home defeat to Norwich, but it must be said that they were well drilled and passed the ball well. They have also beaten Manchester City. These results indicate just how little there is between all of the teams below the top four.

Let us not forget that we beat all the top teams under Silva towards then end of last season. I think that the club were wrong to announce that the board are considering his position. Whether a decision has been made or not, if he is in charge of the Leicester game, then nothing should be speculated to the press regarding Silva's future. It puts him in a grossly unfair predicament.

The hounds are out for blood now. The general concensus seems to demand a new regime. I'm not by any stretch of the imagination convinced by Silva so far, but be very careful what you wish for. As it could all end in tears once more.

That man should have a health warning stamped on the back of his flasher coat. If Moshiri and the board don't give a damn about the club and where we're heading, why should we?

The players won't give a toss at the weekend as they have a Zombie Manager who ain't going to be around for much longer. I hope Silva has the balls to drop completely Scneiderlin, Walcott and Sigurdsson. Play Baningame and Gordon who will relish the challenge.

Give Moise Kean a game with Iwobi given a free role between the midfield and Kean. It's a free hit as who realistically gives a chance of getting anything from the game. If Delph is fully fit play him instead of Baningime but put the kid on the bench.

Pickford
Coleman, Holgate, Mina, Digne.
Richarlison, Davies, Baningime Gordon
Iwobi.
Kean.

I actually know loads of “indigenous” Liverpudlians who support Liverpool and attend the games. I know a few Liverpool fans who actually live in the district of Everton. I also know loads of scousers here in Washington DC who are Liverpool fans and travel back to Liverpool as often as they can to watch Liverpool live.

Just like I do to watch Everton. As bad as we are I still plan any trip back home around an Everton home game.

Just my observation. I don’t know what the split is between closet Liverpool fans and “genuine” Liverpudlian match going fans.

Does anyone know?

Bring Unsy in to have another stab at filling the first team with academy players to show how good they are? Float for a few weeks until anyone with a coaching badge will do and they will all know we are desperate and pull off a fat deal like fat Sam managed to score himself?

Or get in Moyes now, something that isn’t the worst option as a short term option (certainly not the best and I am not advocating it) and upset a large proportion of the fan base?

Not great, so stick with t he e guy who you entrusted with a 3 year contract at least in the short term. If they lose, then nothing changes, still looking for his replacement. If he wins? Bonus, and still looking for a replacement. If they win emphatically and put in the sort of performance we have been expecting, they do it again the following week, then perhaps the manager has pulled his finger out and gets a chance until the next fuck up, by which stage there should be candidates waiting in the wings.

I reckon sacking now without a replacement would send the team spiralling. They are not in revolt against the manager like under bobby at the end. Collectively the group, including the manager are greatly underachieving, but there are no rumours are a split in the squad.

But if Silva wants to walk out at goodison again and not be rinsed by the crowd he is going to need to make some changes to the line up and at least show he has plan b or c in terms of formation. And starting Tosun? Against Norwich? I can understand schniderlin as midfield is so hit by injuries, but up front we have better options

Are you kidding me, a lot of us have been questioning Silva's management since the day he was appointed and even more so following last years debacle at Anfield and the subsequent run of form he presided over.

With this years preseason and the start of the season it has become obvious to most Evertonians that the man is not up to the job.

Now the board seem to be as useless as him because they didnt have the foresight unlike Levy to instigate change in a professional way.

To be fair to Phil he’s right in many ways. Luck has conspired against Silva with injuries to so many key players, and VAR has played its part too. You can’t say for sure of course, but Brighton’s penalty changed the course of the game, and the one not awarded one our way grates because this is exactly what VAR was introduced for. Against spurs there was a credible penalty shout, and a second red card late on that wasn’t even given as a foul. Gomes suffering the worst injury from an innocuous challenge.

The performances have been poor, no doubt, but not in the way that teams are giving us the run around. We can’t break them down, they score from a corner or break away. Not like under koeman or Bobby at the end where teams were just taking the piss out of us. It's arguable that a new coach would only require a small increase in performance to be able to turn the team around, but in fairness that applies to the current incumbent, it's just hard to see that happening now.
The difference has been that the teams we faced and lost against, with the exception of city, have taken the few chances that came their way. A mixture or poor finishing and lack of composure is the real difference between Silva a job being under threat or not. So yes, not entirely luck, but also there have been a fair few cross bar and posts this season. A matter of inches that separates a win or draw from a loss

Compare to Watford, who for large spells have just been rank. Southampton who look as lump as a lettuce, West Ham, who’s performances are roundly describes as terrible.
Now look at Everton. In 9 out of the 14 games against PL opposition this season, so including Watford in the cup, greater possession in 9 of those games, including silly amounts against Villa and Sheffield Utd, both games lost.
Then, head to head in each game, shots on target. in 11 games we have had more shots on target than our opponents, twice equalled our opponents (One of those games against city, where the 8 shots on target represent the most against a Pep managed city). Only twice having less shots on target.
Stats are not the be all and end all, we can all point to poor individual performances, often repeated mistakes especially for me in regards to the quality of forward passes in the final 3rd, but these show that the team isn't in terrible shape, its just not executing the most important thing of all and take the chances when they come along.

So, undoubtedly something needs to change. And it’s easiest to change the manager, especially when he seems unable to either grasp the need to change or manage to prove his method works. But it’s not unreasonable to suggest that with two different results we wouldn't be having this conversation with the same ferocity, because we would be in 5th and complaining that it could be better. And yes of course, the teams we have faced are also a consideration, but against the 3 "best" teams we have faced so far arguably we have done better. City basically have better players, ultimately that was the difference. Spurs was a pretty much equal game. Wolves were lucky to be in the game because of defensive mistakes and a lack of quality finishing on our part.

Wolves have 2 points more from past 5 games and are 11 places above. We are as close to Sheffield in 6th as we are too Norwich in 18th. Of the 11 teams between us and 5th seven have a worse record in the past 5 games, one equal return and only 3 better. The difference is a maximum of two points.

A long way round to say it, but basically Silva hasn't so much presided over disastrous performances, but will end up paying the price for a criminal misjudgement by the club as a whole for not securing a reliable striker who can actually convert when the chances com his way. But he is solely to blame for not addressing the issue with set piece defending (Something that he did seem to have a grasp of it the latter stages of this season, and was indeed being praised for after 2 games this season for having such a good defensive record)
And yes, to a significant degree bad luck

Luck, whether it be good or bad, is often of one's own making, there are so many instances of Silva's persistence to stick with the same players who under-performed in previous games.

Expecting to get a different outcome against different opposition, which has not been properly assessed, is just so poor and unacceptable. I have always believed that we have a decent squad of players in the main, there are a couple of exceptions.

How can the players be motivated (I know they should be of their own volition) when they see the Manager unanimated, almost motionless on the touchline with a quivering bottom lip, devoid of any direction or instruction.

I was lucky enough to see the teams of the 70's and 80's and although a lot has changed in terms of the game, rules, speed etc, and salaries (inflated) play a big part in that lack of commitment from players and Managers alike. IMHO

Silva is a sorry fit for us and should never have been appointed, maybe not his fault, but why oh why do the Board give a three year contract to someone with serial failure, the most prominent part of his CV?

I think you are right as to what Brands role should be, but the Culture of Everton is that of pre Moshiri and Brands.

The the baffling thing about Everton is where does the power lies within Everton. Moshiri and Brands appear not to have the power to instrument changes within the Club, or maybe they have bought into the existing Culture when they arrived.

Moshiri appears to have bought the Club under terms he agreed with Kenwright, that has enabled the overall Management of the Club to have been as it has always been and continues the same under Kenwright.

Silvas appointment was a Moshiri appointment as was Brands, and was a attempt to take control of the footbal! Side of Everton, after Moshiri losing a lot of money. The appointment of Brands to the board was along those lines also. But that is as far as change goes at Everton. There is a block within Everton of further change. Moshiri power is linked to Brands and Silva progress, hence the reluctance to dismiss Silva.

So it is Moshiri/Brands v Kenwright &Co.

It's a real strange set of affairs for a Football Club to be in.

After a International break Silva having another break is a bit like being told to have a bit of a lie down.

I am beginning to think it may be foolish to take Everton seriously, they are a bunch of nutters.

Not down purely to luck, I would have thought that given the amount off guff I wrote it would be obvious that I concede that, but that luck has proved to have an adverse effect. I would even say hard luck as opposed to bad, because in the case of VAR, much or the discussion since has been centred around controversial calls in our games, mostly to our detriment.

I think Christopher Lee on being called lucky made the point that the better he performed the luckier he seemed to get some certainly can’t say we have earned some luck. But the whole premise of the post was to back up a claim that, with a bit of luck the table would look very different and we wouldn’t be quite as wound up.

But you are right. If things are not going your way you need to create luck or fortune for yourself, and that isn’t happening.

Steve Ferns wrote a piece recently about things maybe not being as bad as they seem, and in reality he isn’t wrong. 6 points off 5th is hardly insurmountable especially given that the team currently sitting there were in the bottom three when we met and beat them. But perhaps to stop them getting worse we need someone with a more effective lucky charm

On the subject of our position in relation to other teams in the Table at present, and the co-relation to luck. Not being a lover of statistics, it could be argued, that the next two games in which it looks highly unlikely, for us to glean any points.

The difference between us and the teams currently in fifth could/would/will be dramatically different, and should the teams who are currently below us, pick up some points, the picture could look a lot bleaker.

That is only taking the next two games as an example, we have a grim fixture list for the whole of December!

Jim, I am not getting at you personally, or anyone else for that matter, but given the fixture list we had at the beginning of our current campaign, and the possible and expected points total, which in turn have yielded the opposite, is a disgrace.

While I appreciate it is not a given in any match, that we should win, or have the right to win, the manner with which we meekly conceded, was little short of a travesty, and principally attributable to Silva, and his lack of leadership, team selection, tactics etc.

However, I think that Leicester are proving under Rogers that they are a better quality team and they’ll have home advantage and may spell the end for Silva.

Apart from Tom Davies, none of these highly paid players are Everton supporters. So apart from contractual obligation, have little interest whether we win or lose, they will still pick up an immoral amount even after tax, and definitely not commensurate with effort expended.

That is maybe a harsh way to look at things, but I doubt it is very far from the truth, in addition to a lack of direction, game plan, and psychological motivation.

Howard Kendall Mk1 often opened the window to let the team hear the baying and fervent fans, anticipating their heroes arrival into the arena, usually with a comment to the effect, these fans have travelled all this way in their hundreds/thousands to support you, don't let them down.

Could you imagine Silva putting his knitting or his Teddy Bear down and doing the same? We want a man to lead us not a whimpering, quivering lipped, excuse making shadow of a Manager.

I reckon just before the Arsenal game.

Then Moyes will appear and I will throw myself off the Pier Head.

It is only recently that he has actually played for Sheffield United, and okay he played a blinder for the most part against United. I don't think I regret the Club letting him go.

Which brings me to the next related point, many people on here, myself included wanted Kurt Zouma to join us permanently, okay because of the Transfer Ban, Chelsea would not risk losing a player of his experience.

They were however, amenable to letting Fikayo Tomori join us on loan till the summer, David Luiz scuppered that deal when he jumped ship to Arsenal. In all fairness to Brands, we did try to get Marcos Rojo, who was willing to join us at that late hour, but United couldn't/wouldn't agree terms.

I know this is based on hypothesis but just say we had managed to get either Zouma/Tomori or Rojo, and he had been significantly injured like Gomes (highly unlucky but possible), we would have had to soldier on with the players at our disposal. So that cannot be used as an excuse either.

I believe we have enough players at our disposal to have achieved better results, but Silva will rarely deviate from his boring team selection which clearly isn't working, that is one of the many things that has alienated fans towards him.

We do seem to have a right bunch of dilettantes in our team at the moment. We also have a manager who does not appear to be capable of motivating such players. The carrot is always better than the stick, however, when speaking quietly you do need to carry a big stick.

Silva really is a dead man walking, Moyes was never the answer and is even less so now.

Would Arteta come? Everton is not an easy posting, he may prefer to wait in Manchester. Howe, doesn't tick all the boxes, but on meagre resources, has done well to keep a team that is traditionally third tier in the Premier League. Wilder seems to be a motivator, though largely unproven. Let's face it Simeone and Pochettino are not riding to our rescue.

There's always Pulis, Allardyce, Mark Hughes, David Moyes, Steve McClaren. I just honestly.

Didn’t think you were mate. All good.

And I agree that things are not right, so probably need a change. But was backing up Phils point. Had luck been kinder we could very easily be in a very different position, and whilst it is easy enough to apply that to every team what silva can point to is that in most games this season we have actually been the better side but have not been good enough at taking chances.

So, bigger picture, an incoming manager will find a squad with plenty of talent and to get them back on track isn’t some kind of miracle work.

I am not going to fact check my quote, but I believe it was in answer to a question posed fairly late in his career when he was in films like the lord of the rings, Star Wars and willy winks. All fairly high profile for a cult actor

I agree, thats why I think we should change

The players we have should have been good enough, thats why Silva should go now, because even if there are issues with the squad we should be doing better

In most seasons we would expect to lose to Villa, Norwich and Sheffield Utd. A draw would be a disappointing result, but more often than not we wold get at least 3 points from across those games. Again, 3 points more would put us in 10th. 3 draws or 1 win.

The fact that we couldn't even score a single goal against those 3 teams is damming. Not good enough

For me what smacks of amateur hour is that any decent negotiator would have kept Jags until the deal with Timori/Zouma went through. This is what keeps most deals at any club held up is that that you never want to leave your cupboard bare.

We know Jags is past his best but his experience and leadership would have been handy now.

I would agree that it was best at the time that Jags leave, as it looked like we'd get Timori at least, and the 5th choice spot was better going to Gibson or Feeney.

“It was my decision to want to keep playing football “ so in the absence of an offer he was a free agent. It seems to have worked out ok for him.

Looks like Steve Ferns is bringing some steadiness in to this thread. Needed! Me thinks most of us are just totally frustrated with the whole issue of EFC just now!

Read this yesterday totally agree with Brian (3).

He has brought in an owner who is struggling as badly as he did, if not worse, even with cash injections of hundreds of millions. Our problems won't be solved by bringing back an old manager or a new one. It is change at the top that is needed.

Others, regarding the talks around luck, and stats, do any of you place any stock in modern statistics?

This is a great breakdown of what the table would look like if "everything had gone as normal" (meaning all team's performances were closer to the expected mean, without outliers).

https://talksport.com/football/634794/manchester-united-everton-alternative-premier-league-table-expected-goals/

So in addition to Everton drastically not performing to expected results, nearly every team currently above us in the table is drastically outperforming to expected results. Put another way, that's a double whammy. It reflects a 2019 season where if something could go wrong for Everton, it has. Conversely, if something could go right for most other teams, it has.

Don't think it doesn't reveal some glaring issues, namely that we don't capitalize on chances created, or finish effectively. Or that we give up an inordinate number of goals compared to quality chances. But you cannot discount that hitting a post instead of being 3 inches to the left, or an opposing keeper making a brilliant save, or Pickford letting a dead ball set piece go through his hands, have had a massive impact on where we find ourselves. In short, we've been massively unlucky whereas most everyone else has been massively lucky. I don't need to tell anyone here that a few more goals scored and/or a few less goals conceded would have us in a very, very different place (5th place, actually).

And all of this is even with Marco's terribly perplexing lineup decisions! If you dig further into individual player performances, several of our best performers (based on expected results) haven't played or played consistently: Iwobi, Sidibe, Kean (yes, Kean even in his limited, irrational minutes).

Law of averages should mitigate this as each matchday happens, even with a more difficult schedule left. Nothing will change upcoming results against City, the RS, probably Chelsea & Leicester, maybe United, but Arsenal, Spurs, and FFS Sheffield deserve to be beneath us.

Of course, many think these stats/metrics are hogwash, so make of them what you will.

Makes no sense does it. I mean if we win 5-0 l’m guessing he will then get another stay of execution. If we lose will he go just before the derby game? Either way if he stay I’m sure there will be blood.

If we do beat Leicester how will he do it? Will the players all raise their games? Will we get another couple injuries that force his hand? Or will he change his tactics, and then revert back again.

He never changes a winning team. Since we lost the last game l can guarantee changes. The reception he will get will surely be toxic. Especially if (when) we concede first. I don’t get why Moshiri is putting him through this.

Let's put it this way – if another company who was a global leader in your field came to you and offered you lots more money to do the same job, would you say no? If people are being honest, most would take the new job and say thanks for everything to their old one. People should be thanking Moyes for what he did for us. I remember the state we were in when he turned up and the passion & respect he put back into our club should be applauded.

Funny enough, I think that the club is at a similar low ebb now as when Moyes took over from Smith. No passion, no desire, players who don't put a shift in or give a monkey's. Moyes sorted it out the last time and he could do it again. This is what we need right now – someone with passion who can make us tough to play against and hard to beat; someone who can build a defence who can defend and give us a platform to start winning from again.

Going from Silva to some unknown foreign coach or untried hopeful is too big a risk to take now. We need a steady hand in with Premier League experience who knows how to start picking up points and fixing our team's weaknesses quickly. Don't get me started on Eddie Howe either – the man has had many years in the Premier League and still can't set a team up to defend properly. That is not what we need right now – we have someone like that already in Silva.

If Brands role & responsibility is to manage all aspects as they relate to football (recruitment, contracts, manager, etc.), but reports to a CEO who's both unqualified and ignorant about football, then what power does he really have? Either Everton the business trusts him to do his job for Everton the football club, or he's one voice in a sea of entrenched 'yes men/women' who've been rotting the Club from the top down for decades.

I can't think of a single successful business model in the world - this includes sports franchises - where the Board would meddle with day-to-day operations. A Board of Directors sole responsibility is to evaluate and hold accountable the CEO. Only the CEO is on the Board! Brilliant!

But isn't Moyes the boss that would constantly play perhaps the best centre-mid in the team's recent history (Arteta) as a winger? No thanks. What we don't need is Kenwright, the ceremonial goat, picking the Manager – that decision should only be made by Moshiri and Brands together. There is no rush, just get the right man.

Maybe Moshiri feels this way because Brands wasn't prepared for the disaster which was as clear as night follows day.

If Moshiri does go for an interim, Brands may as well pack his bags, as what would be the point?

Moshiri needs to get smart quickly and get real because tenure has been nothing short of a failure to date.

As an interim manager he makes a lot of sense. Long term maybe a different story. I’m pretty sure if given the reigns he’d do a good job and represents better odds in doing so that any other stop gap we could get.

1) Keep Silva until end of season, finish 16th, but win the Carabao Cup
2) Sack Silva immediately, finish 8th-10th, no Cup, but with the potential for a high-quality permanent signing by summer

I’d go for option C. Sack Silva now. Get a proactive manager with more than 2 brain cells, even if it’s short term. Try to win both derbys, the Carabao Cup, the FA Cup and achieve a top 6 finish.

I’d like to see Silvas Football Coach NVQ Level 1 certificate that’s on his fridge. I’m betting though it’s from the Steve Ferns Soccer Academy. Surely that shouldn’t be enough to even get the Southport job.

I realise effort is not enough and we can be beaten anyway; however, the Club are in such a state, we need to use whatever we can. If, in the unlikely scenario that we win, he would be in charge for the derby.

He turned the club around in the early days. Made good signings and gave us some good times. Things went predictable and stale and he grabbed the Man Utd job when it came.

I think employing him will be a backward step but I don't understand the antipathy even nastiness towards him on here.

Based on Paul's post that you agreed with, it seems to assume that businesses, or the industries they operate in, remain stagnant without change. I can't imagine that's the case, so your admission that it would be a backward step is probably just being voiced much more vociferously by others. Just a guess. Probably not helped by his abysmal record since leaving (~30% win percentage, getting Sunderland relegated).

But I cannot see us getting 6 points between now and January, so we will definitely be bottom 3 over Xmas.

None of this means that people aren't entitled to hold the view he shouldn't be appointed. Surely, however he deserves some modicum of respect. Certainly more than Messrs Martinez, Fat Sam and Silva who each in their own way have contributed to the crisis situation we now find ourselves.

However to go hobnobbing with SAF while still under contract at Everton and then concocting a plan to take the job when SAF retired denying Everton any compensation stinks.

But when you follow that with him coming to take our best players on the cheap telling them they could do a lot better than Everton finished him with me and many other Evertonians.

It turned out he needed Everton more than they needed him.

I didn’t blame him for joining United,I was overjoyed he was going, I’m on a downer now at Everton’s predicament, I’ll be on a bigger one if Moyes comes back, he’s yesterday’s man, look at at his last four terms as a manager.

"Oh, I know how things are done at Everton."

I took a day out today to go shopping with the War Department. As a change from the normal Christmas music, they were playing an Elton John tune which struck me as quite apposite to current events at GP:

"It's a sad, sad situation. And it's getting more and more absurd."

We'll look back on this time as a time in which we could have taken action to preserve our Premier League status.

This vicious cycle has got to stop. We won't go down. But we won't change unless there is real change at the top. That means Kenwright goes, Moshiri appoints a ruthless team devoted to success. The job goes to the best candidate, not an ex player.. unless he or she is the best for the role. We may have the money but not the acumen to use it well. That has to change.

Yet another seasons hopes lie in tatters. We need some steel on the pitch, the boardroom and senior management. We need winners instead of nearly men.

In my opinion he was never a top class manager and how he got the United job is a mystery to many, the job proved too much for him, same as his time in Spain, at Sunderland, the WHU fans didn’t like him or his football and WHU let him go, now apparently they want him back, paper talk!!, I’d love that to be true and they get him, save me having to fight for my season ticket money back.

I've just realised that we play Leicester Sunday and then the shite on Wednesday. Doesn't give much time for a turnaround of manager if we get spanked live on sky Sunday. This season is torture. I didn't think it could get any worse than the Koeman – Unsworth - Allardyce season... Should know better by now.

He brought some good times to us signing in 2002 and keeping the club in the Premier League, but the club and league has changed a lot since he left in 2013 and he won't be a viable long-term option. He won't be allowed to spend much if any money in January and will be fired in the summer.

Who will replace him then? I don't know and I don't think anyone does considering the lack of current alternatives. For now, I think Moyes will be the most sensible option amongst others and will be appointed on Tuesday with Silva sacked on Monday.

At the present time I personally don't have a clue as to the next appointment for manager. However no appointment should be given a contract beyond the end of this season. It is idiotic to dole out four year contracts in the wild hope that they MAY be successful. I wonder how many of the last five managers are still being paid by Everton for doing nothing.

What gets me is they take for granted that everybody else in the pub is red.

While at the bar ordering a drink, two of them were talking about the result: 1-1, so it seems they are not worried about the Champions League this season as long they win the Premier League and the iceing on the cake 'the others' get relegated.

I wonder if Marco, Bill, Marcel and Little Miss Dynamite know what it feels like to be the iceing on the cake, like I did tonight?

In other news when will the club announce that they are not applying for planning permission this year?

My prediction is that this news will get buried on Xmas Eve.

That is exactly how I feel In relation to Moyes. I don't want us to go down. I agree that Silva has done some crazy things and he is not the one to take us to the next level. However, I would like the board to find a good replacement before he is sacked and not sack him then to find the replacement.

What's the general feeling about Arteta?

It's down to the players whether we come out of this one with any shred of what's left of our pride – that will tell us a lot about them.

Unless of course an announcement or an appointment made today or tomorrow.

And we lose the donkey (Silva). It has been recorded in the Chronicles of Goodison Park that there will be a new Star striker in January and written by the prophets that this new messiah will rid us of the Red enemy at our gates. Hallelujiah and Amen.

Can you Imagine all the confidence the Reds have, the going down wall of sound echoing big Duncs Derby, there is absolutely no way we should get anywhere near them, the way our form and confidence is.

But a very big but, we have nothing to lose, can you imagine if we turned up for once, got the tactics right and stopped them picking up three points, not much chance it happening, but with a manager who our neighbours hope is in the dugout, just imagine stopping them, even a bloody draw, small salvation but at least it would put them back under their rocks for the following week.

Our neighbours have so much to lose and nothing to gain.

Can anyone think of a better time to turn up at Anfield and shut the shite up.

This week, one of them remarked to me about Everton. He seemed obsessed with us. I said to him, if we were at the top of the league competing for a title, I wouldn't be giving Liverpool a second thought, I'd be pretty much focused on us. I also said that the best team in the Premier League is Man City, a class above in terms of quality of football and entertainment, just like us in the 60s and to some degree in the mid-80s.

They hate that, being told they've never played great football, just workmanlike and direct, dating from Shankly, that they've never had a Holy Trinity or a Golden Vision, or a White Pele. That they have problems, focusing on us rather than themselves.

There's always a way to shut them up, whether it's the above or the nonsense they talk about Hillsborough.

Even if a new boss takes over after Sunday expect more of the same.

I cannot see the point of bringing in Moyes even as a stop-gap. The man was consistent at Everton for ten years with little to spend but it was all based on defensive football and was going nowhere. After that, he has been a proven failure not a Svengali.

This whole squad needs a firm kick up the backside both from a strong captain and coaching staff. The desire and intensity is missing.

They will struggle defensively against the likes of Vardy and Perez on Sunday because too many players show pedestrian qualities and are easy to counter against.

The board are to blame for not dealing with this situation earlier but probably thought they would get through until the injured players returned. However, apart from the Gbamin injury the team were not doing well even with Gomes, Bernard and Delph. The Iwobi and Kean problems have affected the whole scenario too.

On reflection, many will say that Silva hasn't had much luck but I think over a season many teams have adversities and the strong rise above them which unfortunately hasn't happened to Silva and that is down to his ineptitude at this level.

Bob @219

Kenwright: Frankincense (it smells)

Moshiri: Gold (self-explanatory)

Brands: Myrrh (since apparently all he's allowed to do is embalm what's already dead)

???

I think you may be onto something.

I do however think the players have had long enough to reflect both on the sorry state we are in, and their own culpability in that situation.

Hoping that is the case and they hopefully will suddenly realise the severity of the situation, and our close proximity to that relegation whirlpool.

Maybe they will get kick-started into action, and in age-old tradition, I am old enough to remember, that the form book used to go out of the window in Derby Matches irrespective of who was where in the Table.

Obviously always want a win, but don't want this spineless excuse of a Coach/Manager to remain with us any longer than anticipated.

Watch out for those fairies at the bottom of your garden/window box, they can come back to bite you, they may float like butterflies, but they sting like bees! :-)

If he's being allowed to do his job without interference, then let's see what happens (we don't know the answer nor can we see the future).

If he's not being allowed to do his job without interference, then they shouldn't have hired him in the first place, or at best it was a bait & switch situation. "This is what you'll be asked to do for us" becomes "well that was just something we said; this is what we're prepared to let you do" (we don't know the answer nor can we see the future).

I'm not sure how gumption can affect outcomes if those who are senior to you squash your creativity & process.

1. My daughter referred me today, to a piece in one of the papers [can't remember which] which has an "If VAR had got it right" league table. Some teams would be better off, some worse. It's all very subjective, but They had Everton as +5! [points]

2. No manager' can have had worse luck with major injuries, than MS.

Arteta with Cahill could work. Tim won't accept lack of commitment on the pitch. Could see Siggi and Morgan sideways get a good rollicking if they make the side!

Mike Kehoe #230] Do you predict Lottery numbers too?

For that reason I'd be surprised if they take a risk on Arteta unless their primary target/s say no or are not available.

Stop Press: Looking at the current betting, the Bookies don't seem to think Moysie is in line for the Arsenal job.

Arteta forced through his transfer to Arsenal on deadline day giving us no chance of finding a replacement, I won't be wishing him much luck. Before Moyes signed him he was out in the cold. If he goes to Arsenal then they are taking a risk as assistant managers sometimes don't cut it when they get the top job. Fergie had quite a few who never made the grade but who were given plenty of credit when assisting the great man.

There could be a manager merry-go-round over the next few weeks, although the recipients of the boot won't see it as merry, mind you neither will they be signing on, being more than handsomely compensated.

It will be interesting too to see how Silva reacts to what he must realise is almost a make or break game against Leicester. We will know how serious he views his position, and the extremely thin chance he has of remaining in it, by his team selection. If as expected, it is the same old unadventurous one he selected for the Norwich game, he is a goner.

Typical of Everton to cock things up the same season Spurs fire their most successful coach in the modern era, Chelsea have a transfer ban, Arsenal sack only their second coach in over 2 decades and United are constantly under pressure.

For me, this doesn't really change much regarding our situation as we are probably looking at different people from the Gunners given our status, squad and structure. It does, in some way, mean we have another option to look at. Many on here have championed Emery in the past.

Shame we can't compare what they do when they sign proper strikers. I reckon we would be above them now if we had done.

We are not scoring enough goals to be really competitive though and I cant see much change on that front.
I'd be very happy if we can get five points, I feel we might shock a couple of the teams or should I say I hope we can.

I am disappointed Coleman is injured as I still believe he is our best right back but hopefully sidibe can do a job here this weekend.

If Silva really wants to save his job then I suggest he turns to youth Denis Adeniran has been playing really well and I think he is more than capable of making the step up along with Anthony Gordon. Bernard hopefully coming back Will make a big difference also.

Going to be very tough away to high flying Leicester.

It will effectively force him to try something new. Surely this means a start for Kean? Didn’t Kane/Bale get their big break from similar crisis.

Maybe Siggy will play the 8 position that he does effectively for his country?
Don’t get me wrong, I think he is too slow to be a long term solution in there but I’ll just be glad that he isn’t in the 10 role for a week.

Maybe even 442 with Davies holding?
Maybe 532? Who knows!

Let’s see how brave the manager is in the face of an injury crisis. This might be the lucky break he needs.

However, for this contributor, Silvas bridge is already up in flames and I can’t see anything extinguishing it.

PS: if he starts with the same system and game plan as he normally does then I’m totally done with it all. This is the opportunity to change it up.

It's surely bye-bye, if he doesn't.

He simply wasn't worth the risk –especially considering his wages.

Now, we await the inevitable: a few more losses and then Silva is put out of his misery with a 7-figure payoff and we get another manager to try to get the club back on its feet.

I'm relatively relaxed on the upcoming games as I'm expecting to lose the next 2 or 3 anyway.