PFA say lost tax on 30% paycut would impact NHS

The money FSG have been raking in the last few seasons then this. Shame on them.

Wouldn’t be surprised to see a tyre screeching u-turn on this tomorrow morning and an expertly crafted excuse from their PR department.

Too late, their colours have been nailed to the mast.

The next decade or so may not be the best time for any party to be in government, there's going to be massive fall-out from this tragic health crisis.

And as for that PFA statement about the NHS.

When you're in a hole - stop digging.

But - if the players save each club say £25M – then Sky demand and get it back. The whole thing is a waste of time.

We're all in this together is the theme. Everybody takes part of the hit, not all the money reverts to the biggest fish then just sits there.

Proper application is required. A proper scheme to target players millions to where it will do the most good now. In simple terms: Pay the mythical tea lady so the Government doesn't have to.

Most reds I know are appalled with what they've done, none of them are trying to defend it. They know FSG has shamed the city. LFC should know what scousers have been through down the years, how hard we have worked to get the city thriving in spite of tory rule, how we are proud of our city looking after its residents. And here they are shafting us left right and centre here because it's ultimately every working-class person paying for their greed.

Furlough is the one issue that I agree with from the tories. It's a great idea to help keep people in employment, keeping small businesses afloat like bars, restaurants, self-employed people etc and then you get a multi-million-pound business totally abusing the system.

I have no words at how angry I am with LFC right now, it would be the same if Everton did the same (thank god they haven't) because this reflects badly on every scouser. We are tarred with the same brush. It's a very dark day for Liverpool today.

It is an utter disgrace that the other lot across the park have not seen fit to respond in a like manner. It's likely that our team's weekly wage bill would pay a year's salary for all those staff. The point is, if we can afford to pay players wages, we can afford to pay the staff too.

The business decision across the park shows LFC for who and what they are. Their shareholders and fans should hang their heads in shame. This is Liverpool. We are one; in times of crisis, there is no red or blue – just scouse. We should shame them for their crass opportunistic... offer THEIR workers support. We are Everton. We are better than the norm.

Scousers have nothing to do with the running of their club in reality.

Say the 550 staff all earn £20k on average, that's £11m a year. But to put it back into perspective, that's two Schneiderlin's wages a year.

If a football club, even a Premier League one needs help. Why can't the Premier League give them a loan, an advance on the TV money? There's no need for the taxpayer to be funding the Premier League clubs.

Of course, get down to League One and it's a different story, but any loans there should again come from football and not the government.

I understand the comment, but their actions are crass, insensitive and demeaning to the city as well as their club. But we know this, sad but still surprising that they would be so insensitive to their employees, their fans and the city.

Everton are the community, sadly Liverpool just pointed their staff to the benefits office... says everything about the two clubs.

This notion that every club is detached from each other and does not have a joint responsibility to secure the well being of ALL the clubs is stupid. Every club depends on the league itself to exist. They have a shared responsibility to look after each and every club whether they like it or not.

No Premier League club should be relying on government handouts to its staff. That's a disgrace, where a club cannot pay then a fund has to be created within all the league to ensure staff are looked after.

Perhaps at the end of all this, it becomes a requirement of each club promoted that they commit monies to a fund to support each other in times of crisis and not depend on the taxpayer to bail them out or cut their overheads.

Almost as shameful as LFC resorting to government funding for furloughing staff when not a single higher earner at the club has taken a pay cut.

If a Premier League player does the same but the existence of club that employs him is not threatened, why should he? I'm not justifying their obscene salarles, nor am I saying that they shouldn't be making "sacrifices" but surely it's better to take the full salary and instead divert the 30% to the NHS and / or other worthwhile causes.

If this is the reason why players are prevaricating - i.e. to seek reassurances about how their 30% cut is being used, then I can perhaps understand the delay. After all why boost a profitable club's revenue when charity sees nothing ?

Also, there must be some players (one I've heard at Liverpool) who are already diverting a large percentage of their wages to a charitable trust. Existing arrangements have to be taken into account too.

I refuse to believe that all Premier League players are uncaring, grasping mercenaries - though there are undoubtedly many.

I'd like to see a rule introduced next season, whenever that may be, that states that no club furloughing their staff during the crisis should be able to make any transfer signings. After all, if you haven't got the money to pay staff, how can you have £50m to spend on a player?

There should be a similar framework to stop large companies doing likewise. Time for wealthy people and shareholders to stump up instead of taking dividends and bonuses.

The PFA and other football authorities will talk, have meetings and will prevaricate so little if anything is done, however, might be in place if some other pandemic may happen in the future.

I have no doubt our players could engage some knowledgeable person to advise them how they can use their salary donation in such a way PFA type excuses can not be made.

When the footballing authorities are shooting themselves in the foot and digging deeper holes now is the time our Club and players need to jump ship and lead the way.

Only when the forces suit them.

Are the PFA assuming that us plebs who earned a pittance think that its super-rich members are paying the 40% rate on every penny over the personal allowance? If they are, then they are in the same cloud cuckoo land as their more affluent members.

As for Taylor, an average player who's droning voice has cured many an insomniac, how much of his "highest-paid union official's" multi-million-pound salary is he contributing?

If it is merely retained by the paying club, then it benefits the club and no one else.

Therefore, there has to be a consensus as to where the salary savings are to be paid.

If it is into a charity in support of the NHS, all well and good, otherwise, what is it to be used for?

I think the players, generally, are quite willing to make the gesture, it is the logistics of the distribution that seems to be the problem.

How can any Liverpool FC supporter ever sing this song again?

The opposition players and fans will be laughing their socks off at the total hypocrisy.

This episode has negated their No 1 motivational tool, “You'll Never Walk Alone” has become an embarrassing joke.

You read my mind and you put it so much more eloquently than would have done.

Top post!

You have made an excellent point, just make a contribution after the tax has been reduced? The highest paid union official couldn't work that out? Then the NHS don't lose out on contributions. The players do appear to have finally, after 2 weeks of keeping up big rolls at home, made a move.

I'm sure Hugh's suggestion is not that straight forward but surely any top accountant can come up with a solution to this? Every club will use an accountant full time anyway.

I mentioned on another thread last week that the hit the big broadcasters Sky, BT, BBC, Amazon doesn't seem to have been mentioned anywhere? Are they exempt from this?

Why don't they contribute 30%? Or write off 30% of what they are owed? I wonder why the Government minister isn't mentioning them when he is discussing football's role to play.

Possibly Gordon Taylor could have used this platform to suggest the same, instead of his usual dawdling 'commit to nothing' stance.

Who else are you going to force to pay an additional 30% in taxes besides me???

If you impose it one one sector of society you should impose it on all.

I also get the PFAs reasoning that a 30% wage cut would be detrimental to the funding of the NHS due to the lost tax revenues, as most of the money clubs earn today is through TV money surely this should only be considered if the clubs lost out on revenues due to the season being lost?

Meanwhile Everton as usual seem to have the Corinthian attitude of paying all staff as normal, being at the forefront of the commercial collective time support this crisis, being the community club, and not a single word is talked about it in the media, at a time when some positive headlines for football might be needed. Priorities, eh?

I am going to go against the grain here and say that Taylor is absolutely right in what he says about the tax. The government will indeed lose vast amounts of tax revenue if players took a tax cut. It is the clubs who will get the benefit of that and so do you think they will donate the money to the NHS or to some other government or community service?

What the PFA should be doing is setting up a fund which players contribute to through a % donation of the money paid to players, from whatever source, because it will not all be from wages from the club. The PFA could then distribute money to a variety of places which could also include paying the wages of lower division/non league staff who really are struggling to make ends meet, donating to the NHS, work clubs etc.

One thing for sure the own goal scored by our despicable neighbours will never be forgotten.

Then, when his shift finished, he went home and was worried had he caught the virus while at work that he could pass on to his wife and kids. He said he was petrified everyday not knowing if he could catch the virus. This is someone putting his life and his family's life on the line every day, he said he wished he could stay at home like the government are asking but he can't.

I guess he will be on no more than £25,000 per year, yet we hear of businesses earning excess of £100 million clear profit in the last 2 years using government money to pay their employees 80% of their wages. For those saying they can understand why some clubs have done this, please explain to this nurse how you think that's right.

I hope when this is all over, maybe in 9-12 months time, we remember how these clubs decided to pilfer the public purse, when there was no need to.

Obviously the governments all around the world will have less money for schools and NHS and many other government funded projects when this is over. So I hope the public show their disapproval for the many who could have done something but chose instead just to look after themselves.

What is being asked for is players to take a cut in take-home pay of 30% × 55% = 16.5%.

Good point, but is this % to the good causes pot before tax or after? Haven't we reached the same point as discussed.

Eric @27,

Fair point but no-one is being forced to do anything here. They themselves have taken it upon themselves to do something positive, we are just discussing the merits and trying to find the most constructive and fair way of distributing a lot of wealth.

You're right in saying it shouldn't just be footballers who take a lead; with us all being football fans and proud Evertonians, we want to see the right thing done, I suppose.

Rugby Union, Rugby League, etc and their likes? It's up to them. I sincerely hope our club keeps its position on paying all staff, no matter how long this goes on; to follow Liverpool's lead would be an embarrassment.

They are not interested in any creative solutions regarding tax and charitable status. It was an ex-Stoke player who came up with this tax take idea, in the same vein as Gary Lineker and round the same time. The PFA have just latched on to his idea, which was given some favourable credibility in the media.

I suppose membership of the PFA has some sliding scale regarding fees according to wages.

Every little helps!

Where do you draw the line? The rich who are making fortunes from buying low in the stock market, executive of companies being paid millions?

As already suggested elsewhere the government to apply a temporary high rate of tax but they will not do that because it will affect a large number of their pals, party donors etc.

Proud to be an Evertonian in good and bad times!

But then again, I remember when the highest tax rate in UK was 95%, so I guess 70% isn't too bad.

There are plenty out there - like most NHS trusts!

The government will add 25% to make it 37.5% in the form of a tax rebate. High earners will then get a 25% reduction in tax on the 30% - so they could give that extra 7.5% and get a further 5.6525% tax rebate.

I think that means they could give 30% of their take-home pay, so someone on £50,000 a week has to live on about £19,000 take-home per week rather than £27,000 per week. I know it will be tough to survive on that amount but I am sure they could do it for a few weeks.

And then nobody has taken a pay cut - and that includes Gordon Taylor.

The idea that footballers are going to move from that, to 75% tax seems unlikely in the extreme.

I've never mentioned 30%. I agree with the principle of them paying tax first and then making a contribution if that is the clearest and most beneficial solution.

I agree with posters who say it isn't up to footballers to bail out the NHS. As a wealthy country, we should have a stronger more robust NHS to begin with. The players after all have made their NI and Tax payments like the rest of us, and with their own club doctors, surgeons etc may never even use the service during their playing days.

At every level, every club has a different financial decision to make. Ideally a club who can't afford to pay their stewards, groundsmen etc could turn to their well-paid players to help out. Their players help directly.

A club that can afford to pay their stewards etc pays them like Everton, their players help lower league staff, players, NHS.

A wealthy club like Liverpool and Tottenham that chooses to do neither but rely on public money is clearly not ethical. Liverpool players will then be saying "Where is our contribution going?" That's if they care enough? As unlikable as Jordan Henderson is he seems to be trying to get the ball rolling.

Let's get down to the bones on this whole crap situation. The players are massively over paid. On TW we've all expressed this for donkey's years. A 70 per cent cut in their wages for 6 months would make fucking sweet fuck-all difference to their lifestyles and so, IMO, cut the bullshit and do what you should do you overpaid "xxxxs".

There, I got this off my chest. Does anybody else feel the same as I do on this?

Rooney is on the BBC site, as I write, saying that many players perhaps can't afford a cut in wages.

At first view, this seems ridiculous, but, the old adage that people tend to live up to their income, is still true.

Some of them may be so committed to mortgage payments for they mansions and lease payments for their Ferraris and Lambourghinis that they cannot afford a substantial cut in pay, without falling foul of the agreements they have signed. Others too will also, no doubt, have gambling debts that they are paying off etc.

So, laughable as it sounds, many of them may not be able to take a wage cut without it having major impact on their lives.

Sigurdsson £100k, it just goes on. Even Baines for approx 10 - 20 games a season £65k a week. It gets harder to support a football regime such as this, when you have to work and live in the real world.

For me and my son, the current most important issue is how do we keep paying our 10 loyal employees. That is more important than paying ourselves. These people have become more than just employees, they're almost like family.

I reckon we are not alone in this. Many small businesses will have the same kind of situation as we do. We are trying to understand the various government stimulus package to help us keep everybody employed. I'm a positive thinker and so I think we'll get through this crap. Just hope I am right for everybody in a similar position.

However, Eric (27) I was not necessarily advocating the pay cut, only saying how it could be quite easily administered.

Paul (49), I was only pointing out that - irrespective of how high a wage might be, many people will still spend up to the limit of their income.

I have just read that Rooney piece. The overall effect he gives, no matter how many valid points he makes, is one of multi millionaire footballer whingeing. He needs to be careful with his choice of words.

'A disgrace' he calls it, footballers being picked on... there is lots of disgraces going on, Wayne. This isn't one of them.

Jermaine Jenas again coming off as the spoilt brat calls it a " joke". They should give Gary Lineker a call before putting their foot in it. Aren't professional footballers always taught to take the rough with the smooth? The bad press with the good press?

Your fantastic lifestyle, your wages, the adulation, the travel, the endorsements, the healthcare, this is the smooth Wayne. This feeling of victimhood? A little bit of the rough. Suck it up and come up with a better alternative.

Many of us will be in a better position than others on here and we should give attention to those younger than us, who, as a relatively young married couple, have 2 or 3 children and a mortgage or rental to pay, and are wondering how they will get by from day to day!

Maybe it's easier for me to mention this because I'm in my 70s but, honestly, we have to give at the very least emotional support to those less fortunate who are struggling through this Coronavirus crap.

One: How much will the NHS lose through Government funding that is being used to pay 80% of all these peoples wages? Not just now, but in the long term as well.

Two: Have the politicians, like Hancock, taken a pay cut? They may not earn as much as footballers but they earn far too much for what they do.

At the end of the day, all players have a right to be certain that their pay cuts / contributions are going to worthy causes and not just into their employer's bottom line - unless the very survival of their club is at stake.

I think that that is all Rooney, Defoe and Danny Rose are trying to say, although some of the language used may not be helpful to their arguments.

I've seen Kenwright give huge sums to charity and perhaps some do it more quietly but now is time for our players (and coaches) to step up and see what they do as a collective. I'm not going to criticise them yet... but, if nothing happens, I will find it hard to support them in future. People are dying, people losing their jobs, we support the players through thick and thin... time for them to step up.

Reading Rooney's column, the only thing I agree with it is his reference to young and lower league players who do not earn the Premier League players wages, but, on the other hand, they do earn more than the average worker who has been laid off and will have to try for unemployment.

The greed of the beast kills most things, it's why this virus has got on top of the world's leading nations, who have been getting warned for years, but haven't really bothered because there didn't seem to be any profit in it for them.

How they are all going to suffer now because of a failure to prepare, but how can we expect people to pull together, when it's hard enough getting them to agree?

Moral and fair aren't usually given much creedence in a high earners lexicon so there's little reason why it should appear now even in such circumstances.

Let the clubs who can afford it pay the salaries to the players and allow the players to make their own decisions about how they distribute their wealth. If they don't happen to deliver what we'd like to see then we have our choices too as set out above.

You are right regarding lifestyle and probably this is where most of the resistance is coming from. Also, you have all the players' entourage of paid support and lastly you have fees paid to the PFA.

It is extraordinary how may different lifestyles exist, even outside the rich and famous. Naturally people made judgements in terms of their own lifestyle, unaware of the differences.

But the players are facing a PR disaster and possibly the industry they work in financial difficulties. You would think the leadership should be trying to come up with solutions, rather than using problems to avert these implications.

My father used to say to me when I was a wage earner, "Never use your wages like most people use a credit card. " A lot of footballers have. . .

Yeah, the NHS needs more funding, it always has, but putting it on footy players is the wrong call, there is plenty of other millionaires out there, let them decide what to do, it's their money.

I'd love nothing more than to see them all give to the current crisis, but what about MP's? Corporations? Oil companies? Betting Companies? I could go on, as I said earlier, scrap foreign aid, £13 billion a year, imagine how many more hospitals and equipment we'd have to sort out this crisis. Where's the money that should repair our roads? Etc etc. fuck knows we've all paid enough tax to up-keep them.

Point being, plenty of others to point the finger at too.

I wonder how the rs loving media will cover this?

Not to mention the civil list.

Seamus Coleman donated £20M to Donegal services.

Wouldn't surprise me if Seamus kicked in £20 million, if he had it. He's doing what he can with what he has.

Another reason to like the lad.

The likes of Rooney should be directing his ire at the clubs, not the government, fans and media. If the clubs looked after their own employees instead of getting the taxpayer to fund them, then they wouldn't get so much grief. The clubs have made the players easy targets with their actions and the government have exploited that as they do.

Because players and clubs are totally out of touch with reality with their superstar lifestyles, it doesn't take much to turn the people against them, as we are seeing now. I guess you reap what you sow. It's hard to feel any sympathy at the moment for cash-ridden Premier League footballers.

I know some like Seamus and Henderson across the park are doing stuff off their own back and deserve credit for it, but they are definitely in the minority. They take so much from football fans and give very little in return. Is it really that bad when we ask for Premier League footballers to give a little back to the communities that adore them?

Having said that, Why are overpaid bankers, charity bosses (they are the worst) actors, pop singers etc not getting the same stick?

Finally, if one more jumped up twat like Kate Winslet sticks her fucking oar into something that, and by fuck she is fucking thick, knows nothing about, I will combust.

Everyone, who can be remotely called a celebrity can really help now. They can do it by realizing that they are thick and shutting the fuck up.

That feels better, my blood pressure is lowering. Serenity.

I'm trying hard not to be too sympathetic believe me but we cannot know precisely what each individual can afford. I share your frustration at the other "celebrities" who "earn" their huge rewards. Please tell me for instance what the BBC Royal Family correspondent does to be paid handsomely!

No complaints from me!!

May be called something else? Not sure.

Usually they get anything from 2500 to 6000 posts before they "close the thread"

On this - total silence - I wonder why?

Wherever they pay for the royals from now, then.

If you want to attack a brand of "administrators" - look at the local councils.

Some of their salaries and other "packages" like enhanced pension pots on early retirement) are absolutely CRIMINAL.

As an example, where I live, the recently retired head of our local authority was on a salary three times greater than that of the Prime Minister of the UK!!

Additionally, he was personally sued and his legal costs were met by the local ratepayers - a bill that run to many hundreds of thousand of pounds, for a case that should never have been defended.

The system is corrupt and the sooner we start taking back power rather than diversifying even more - the better it will be.

In Wales, were I live, we have an assembly that is inept and a is an additional layer of government that we don't need and can't afford.

Similarly, our local authority seems, like a cancer, to grow year on year - but unlike cancer, never kills its host, it just keeps devouring it, form inside.

It's about time we had a radical re-thing of local government in this country.

Napoleon called us "a nation of shopkeepers" just over two hundred years ago.

If he was around now, he would call us "a nation of administrators".

But they administrate over nothing - except themselves.

We don't produce anything useful in this country any more!!

How about we focus on the fact that NHS workers should be paid a hell of a lot more than what they are? I'm sure we can all agree on that? Maybe?

Let's focus on the 'front line workers', (front line workers-don't like that term, not one bit, it is a war, on disease, but not like what our army go through, that's front line, don't think it compares, at all).

Anyway, I support them all, my focus is on them, if any good comes out of this shit show, maybe those that risk their lives, (war or disease) are paid more and get the credit they deserve.

If it’s about that off course, and not keeping the 55% (lol, like they really pay it all my arse)

Or is that wishful thinking?

Closed all their borders. Yeah, that's unity for you. Fuck you, pal, I'm alright.

Not seen it for a while, but was damn useful.

Maybe Lyndon or Mike could update us if there is a reason, the edit button is no longer on the site.

So you are looking at around £100 grand a week, my feeling is it would be much lower.

So if you look at an average playing squad of 25 bare minimum, surely those players could contribute £2,500 out of their weekly wages, to help those non-paying staff?

Can a player on £300,000 a week really be expected to cope on £200,000 ?
Ok extreme example. Let's say £90,000 A week. Can they cope on £60,000 A week? What's the median annual wage in the UK at the moment? £40k? I dunno.

This shite won't float. Here in Aussie the NRL laid off 95% of ancillary staff and management took a 25 % pay cut. I'm guessing they all have 6 figure annual dollar salaries. That was so big of them.

The supporters will only take so much of this crap.

Who are footballers? Working-class boys done well. Let's pick on those ruffians and use the despicable Daily Mail and other tabloids to do it. If we can focus the ire of the great unwashed on their own, then they won't put too much pressure on the bankers and chiefs of industry quietly cashing their million-pound bonuses for doing nothing whilst putting most of the great unwashed on furlough.

Come on, guys. If Everton give the players a pay cut, then that cash is retained by Everton and does not go to nurses. Instead of focusing on the players, we should be after the likes of Daniel Levy who is cutting the wages of his staff, not just placing them on furlough.

What about the bankers? They are not giving the money to small businesses right now. Small business employs half the working population. That's over half of us at risk of not having employment after this is all over. The banks' conduct is despicable, and the government are being very careful with their words here and not forcing the money to go to the employers that really need it.

But yeah, let's get back to picking on footballers and ignore all the wealthy bar stewards who are putting us on furlough and escaping the wrath.

Got to be worth a few million. Our players are seen to be doing the right thing, pride is restored to the fair city of Liverpool and we get to sing 'that song' at The Old Lady, at the derby.

Sorted.

Remind me again who their next game is against? Suit them down to the ground not playing in front of a full house at Goodison.

Even if the derby was played in an empty stadium, the offer from our players to pay their staff would be class with much amusement to take our minds off this horrendous situation.

I've just seen another article about Wayne Rooney and he's dead right, players are being made scapegoats by the FA and the Government over their wages. 99% of players come from a working-class background, and they dedicate their lives to bring us entertainment at the highest level; they earn their money.

Wayne has probably donated more money to hospitals and charities than any of the high-profile rat-bags living abroad and hiding their wages in off-shore accounts, thereby avoiding paying the very taxes that pay for our hospitals and health workers.

Good on you, Wayne, my Working-Class Hero!

That really would take the piss out of them.

Kick 'em while they are down, I say.

Society has always protected the wealthy. Hard choices over the next five years! Football or food on the table? Life as we know it has gone! When nurses and doctors are dying to protect the public, everyone has to do their bit. Many fans will walk away from football not just because of affordability but feel I've escaped death and actually football is not life and death!

If anything good comes out of this awful situation, it is that football in the Premier League needs a reality check. Perhaps living for today and not tomorrow is the biggest problem. The reality is thousands more are going to die. Keep safe all. Stay in and this nightmare will soon end.

He's called Liverpool and Spurs "Disgusting" and is urging their fans to show some bollocks and boycott season tickets.

The days of a player travelling to the game on the same 46 bus as the spectator are gone. In the 60s, 70s and 80s If you knew where to go in Town or around Maghull you could stand in a bar next to any number of players.

As Becky Tallentire reminds us, they were still pretty much like us. Unless you knew, you couldn't tell the house of an Everton Legend from the house of the mechanic who fixed his Cortina or A40.

These events and this anti player fallout that they triggered may have been a bit of a politician induced beat-up / smoke screen. Dog whistle or not, for a reason, it struck a chord, but yeah, with hindsight (guilty here) it was and is never that simple.

It does, however, show that the social link (compact / contract?) between fans, players and the game as a whole, recently tenuous at best, maybe fracturing and shattering into irreparable pieces.

10 years of austerity may be replaced by 10 years of something worse... we are deep into Rumsfeld's unknown unknowns here.

All the king's horses and all the king's men are not going to put this Humpty together again in a hurry and many are starting to see that it's not only the Premier League emperor who is walking around bollocko.

And, Yes, most will be able to cry in comfort and it may be a different tune if it looks like their employer going to the wall. Were any of us, including those paid to be, overly prepared for this pandemic and are we really all getting through this together?

Also, I'm sure all or most of them will have decent sized bank accounts and a mixture of short-term and long-term investments. I'm pretty damn certain they would not be reliant on assistance from the various government initiatives.

We're all on the same page here, I reckon. Perhaps with a few minor differences.

Stay safe, be well!

Read post 6. I don't know if Christine lives in Liverpool but she is clearly a scouser and Is expressing the views of scousers everywhere.

I’d like the media to start focussing on Clubs like Everton who are trying to do things right. Great article on Denise our CEO on the Athletic. I’d take her and Moshiri any day their lot.

Apparently, only 21% of people earn more than £30000 a year. The “average “ wage will appear more because it will include the Merchant Bankers (rhyming slang) and hedge fund managers etc which gives a skewed perspective of what your average Joe earns.
Good old Google.

Everton facing Moral question

If anyone needs regulating and controlling it is these pariahs.

Hopefully, after the debacle that is now in play, where they have again been appointed to the role of "saviours of the small business" only to show, once again, that they do not understand any concept of trust or compassion, the government will finally call them to book.

I believe in free market forces, but also believe in a compassionate society.

I am not in favour of nationalisation generally, as I think it breeds ineptness.

But, I do think that a "National Bank", governed by the Bank of England, would be a good thing and would really put a cat amongst the pigeons of the corrupt high street banks, presently masquerading as "the country's saviour".

I mean - the Bank of England, had to ask them this week not to pay dividends out of their profits to the shareholders, so that they would have enough cash reserves to honour the loans that the government have said they will back for small businesses.

Despite the government backed scheme, many small businesses are reporting that when they apply for a loan the banks are offering something entirely different, far more costly and demanding additional collateral, despite the government guarantee.

Finally, the Bank of England has also asked (begged) them not to pay themselves massive bonuses this year, given the dire straits that many of their customers now find themselves in.

If, as many people here are predicting, the Premier league is in for a short, sharp, shock as far as its finances are concerned, hopefully this will equally apply to high street banks.

The Premier League needs to monitor the money intake according to means and give it back to the Clubs to distribute to those in need in their local communities. The NHS is just being used as a PR ploy.

Individual Clubs are going to go there own way on this, because the Premier League in clueless in what to do. As for the PFA they will just put up barriers and muddy the waters as much as possible.

Can't help feeling that this might also have an effect on the building of our new stadium. Even if finances are available, will people still feel the same way about watching football?

This pandemic is having the effect of reminding me yet again that football only a game.

Abu Dhabi National Exhibitions Company said it had not charged Britain's National Health Service rent and has offered to cover running costs.

Why not Everton show morals, whilst Liverpool damages the reputation of football and our city, going cap in hand to the Conservative party over furlough?

We have read that the players want to contribute but they quite rightly didnt want to take a wage cut which would just leave the money in the clubs coffers. I totally agree there is no point taking a pay cut if the money just stays in the club instead of helping were it will have the most effect. the PFU came out saying if the players took a pay cut the treasury would loose £200 million in taxes. So let the clubs pay the players the normal salary, then the players at each club set up an account were they pay into this and then out of this they can say to their club we will pay our non playing staff but you must not apply for furlough for these staff members. Then the remainder of the money could go to the NHS were its needed. No agents or lawyers to sort out what the ramifications are as players wouldnt be taking a pay cut. So no contractual problems to sort out these will be voluntary contributions.

Did I just read that paragraph/qoute from the echo wrong or what? Unfuckingbeleivable, can't do right for doing wrong can we.

They can fuck off the RS loving arseholes.

There’s only one people’s club in the city, the other is a faceless corporate entity which thinks nothing of using tax payers money to furlough local Merseyside staff whilst raking in hundreds of millions of profits in recent seasons.

The claim that players "want to" put in is disgusting. There are a million ways for them to do it without getting into contractual arguments.

Tony/ Brian
I would love to see the blue half of this City boycott the Echo. I've had enough of this Kopite propaganda to last me a lifetime

Casho

As you rightly pointed out. Christine is most definitely a scouser. She worked about 100 yards from yours. Her dad Had Rooneys the fruit and veg shop next to Appo`s..

A lot are not getting this. Why PL footballers? Many people falling for this Govt/ Hancock game.
Millionaires/Billionaires in the Cabinet and friends of the Cabinet and donors to the Tory party. Ask them eh? No? Why not?

Branson? Lewis Hamilton? Tax Dodgers?

Everton fans praise Everton players for their off field activities. We know they give so much of their time and they do give money to charities. They just don't broadcast it. I can't imagine that someone who has the morals meaning that they avoid tax, is someone who does a lot for charity!

We know players are paid a lot.

This is deflecting from underpaid key workers, 10 years of austerity.

NB. 2.5m millionaires and 550 PL footballers.

Stick to football maybe?

UK gives millions to Somalia, why? They have natural oil reserves which is why the Americans were so keen to keep control of the country.

Bangladesh, natural gas.

Sometimes it's political to keep the Russians or Chinese out.

Reminds me of when the US gave agricultural aid to the Philippines so they could buy Massey Ferguson tractors made in US. Did it benefit Philippine farmers? No, but it kept US manufacturing industries going for a while.

Just like me good on yer.

Footballers represent our club, our culture, so it’s only right that we expect them to do the right thing. So what if the money stays in the club, it’s our club, and once this pandemic is over, our club is going to need every penny it can find, especially if we are to move forward, and for any club using furlough, then surely their multi-millionaire footballers, could have done more to help their fellow club members in this hour of great need?

It’s obviously just opinions, but Barcelona players did the right thing morally imo, but with money being god in this modern world, then the devil’s work is already done, and if Everton make a similar decision to Liverpool, at any time in the future, then I would blame the players.

At times like this we need good news, we need action not words, actions that bring everyone together, and not silence that has helped this government turn it onto the football players, because if they’d done something already, then it would never have got to all this?

A few months ago they had people canvassing door to door asking if we would like to get the red echo delivered. When I said no thanks I don't buy LFC papers they were surprised and said " oh that's the response I've had from many people, I wonder why" well it's exactly for reasons like this that no self respecting evertonian would ever buy that rag.
Offended by everything ashamed of nothing.

The rift between the supporters is bad enough as it is without this type of one sided journalism

What we’re seeing from the RS and Spurs is “marginal gains”. They see a way to pocket a few million and they take it. Levy has always been known to be someone who screws people over and here we see it first hand.

I hope people do remember this and that Liverpool and Spurs lose more than £5m each in revenue due to their reputation damage.

Not an “ ideological pop” at all, merely an observation. An accurate one. Speaking to friends in Germany their reactions ranged from “Good, not before time “ to dismay that the borders that existed decades ago and that idealists hoped had gone for ever can be closed so quickly. I visit Germany
8-10 times a year so I think thatI have an
idea how some people think.
Stick to football? What football?

I will when you do😉

Sadly until a vaccine can be found that will either kill off the virus or at least reduce its effectiveness, I think social distancing will be here for quite a few months. And seeing how some have flouted the social distancing over just a couple of weeks I cant see everybody staying a safe distance for the months ahead.

I rest my case says Mr Ganley.

I can't thin of any other reason.

Hugh - I noted that yesterday. Is there somewhere we can write to to enquire why so you know?

https://theathletic.co.uk/1721173/2020/04/03/denise-barrett-baxendale-everton-coronavirus/?article_source=search&search_query=baxendale

you have to sign up (free trial offer)

and the full article reprinted here

https://members.boardhost.com/peoplesforum/msg/1586069242.html

That's the editor to complain to. To be fair she has emailed back saying she will investigate. I also told them that they should take a look at the athletic article about Denise Baxendale Barret and maybe they could actually report something positive about EFC for a change

"Furlough is a coronavirus job retention scheme, designed to help smaller, vulnerable businesses".

Thank you Liverpool FC for confirming to the world .

YOU ARE JUST A SMALL CLUB!!

Link

Highlights from the article:

* picking up on the early signs of Covid-19 in late January, DB-B asked Paul McNicholas, the club’s director of risk & governance, for a new and hefty addition to their business continuity plan: pandemic.

* so rapidly did the club act pro-actively, rather than reactively, once the virus hit UK shores, that already in January Everton staff had software installed on their laptops in January to enable them to work from home if necessary.

* on March 13 - BEFORE the PL took the decision to close down the league - when an Everton player showed symptoms of the virus, DB-B ordered an immediate shutdown of Everton at both Finch Farm and the admin at the Liver Building as naturally people moved between the two.

* apparently, there exists a UK Covid-19 Business Pledge, a commitment by some of the biggest companies in the UK (including BP, Experian, National Grid and DLA Piper) to help employees, customers and communities get through the crisis.

Everton is the only football club signed up to the pledge (my emphasis).

In answer to a question Steve Ferns has raised about just how many full, part-time and casual staff the club employs, DB-B is quoted as saying:

'“As an organisation with a workforce of full, part-time and casual staff of nearly 1,000 people we have a duty of care to every single one of them.”

As I said in my opening, a very stark contrast to the appalling opinion piece by Kirkbride in the Echo.

It was not till 1922 that daily life got back to normal, when people started to travel about as normal, accord in to a old man who is over 100. He lost his mother in the morning and the rest of his family that same afternoon, during a day in the second wave of the virus.

Of course it was different times than now, and hopefully times were better.

What about domestic broadcasts? OK, doesn't affect ALL EPL teams, but

Overseas broadcasts does.

And sponsorships?

So if a club is not getting revenue in, or has to return revenue because it has not fulfilled its contractual obligations, how is it to survive?

Show me any club in the EPL that makes money once you take the mystical dark arts of accountancy out of the equation.

I'll be delighted to see you at the next meeting, I have been at the last two at the Excelsior, really nice to meet the names and put a face to them.
It was less sarcasm, more frustration Gerard, the EU making it so awkward for us to leave yet hauling up the drawbridge straight away. Didn't seem right for members of a European Community to become so, almost, jingoistic. Not only my sentiments either. Do you have a connection with Germany Gerard?

Great Goals

The Olympics cancelled, the Open cancelled, Wimbledon cancelled but apparently the Premier League will start in June. Football has become a sickening joke frankly.

No mate, that was another Ray! 😁

Likewise, the Muslim leaders are telling people not to go to Mecca. But football somehow in our society is seemingly worth the greatest sacrifice.

On another point, Wayne Rooney's "some players cannot afford a pay cut." Maybe true, but the people working at the pubs, restaurants, newsagents etc around every club in England can't afford a pay cut either but millions of them just lost their jobs entirely.

If we really want to pick and choose who among us deserves to keep their full paychecks, for day-to-day existence it is probably more important to make sure plumbers, electricians, welders, miners, etc keep their cash not to mention emergency services and teachers.

I do have strong connections to Germany; read Danny O”Neill”s excellent current article on TW and my post in response.

What the decent thing to do is look after your own. We are asking them too look after the business because they can and it won’t take from a fund not intended for a company in profit or with high capital value. So this bullshit about tax take etc is a smoke screen. Pay your tax then look after the staff at the club who are at risk, Ferns pointed out earlier even a conservative estimate of money needed to cover non playing staff for six months is ‘chicken feed’ for the players at premier league clubs.

The people who make a premier league players life easy, chefs, stewards, admin etc. are the people they should help. It’s means they don’t have to come to work and infect others, it means the club doesn’t furlough and take from the government when others need it.

Why are footballers getting a bad rap? Well they let the worst union in the world speak for them for starters. They were too slow to see what was happening too. However most of all footballers trade off more than businesses than let’s say a banker or other high earner. They tell us all the time the fans make a difference, they use our emotion and support to make money often not through a club but through image rights etc. Footballers are assets and make up much of the value a club is pegged at, so they are much more than just employees like other higher earners.

When that feeling is not recognized or reciprocated then expect a significant backlash.

Steve #200, can you share a link? I'd love to see Sam on TV.

The poor dears might have to forego one of their Ferraris for 6 months while small businesses go to the wall left right and centre and all the poor health workers around the world do 80 to 100 hours a week putting their lives on the line.

I think it's a disgrace that top footballers and clubs and multi-million earning film stars and entertainers are not collectively doing enough.

For me, it's simple levy a, "Health Tax" of 50% on all earnings over £0.5 million a year as a one-off for this year.

What a complete and utter idiotic arsehole.

John Barnes

The sad thing is Barnes, like all the Liverpool ‘mafia’ in the media, never learns and will make complete fools of themselves time after time and ironically become heroes to thousands of Liverpool fans who gobble up every stupid sentence they utter.

Needless to say, the ex-RS players now pundits who infest all sections of the media will be going into overdrive with damage-limitation to make sure the media will soon be back to fawning all over them again before too long... After all, it's a well-oiled machine experienced in such things since Heysel, right? 😏

We should never forget that they had to be shamed into it.

Disgrace of a club

But "opted to find alternative means" to pay staff sounds like they're either going to rob charity boxes, mug folk or find an alternative scam somewhere.

Absolutely classless Club.

No worries, Seamus Coleman is one decent human being and, as you rightly point out, a truly generous person with great human values.

He doesn't forget were he comes from, nor how lucky he is to have earned the money he has done playing for Everton and Ireland.

Liverpool ownership deserves plenty of credit for reversing the decision to take advantage of the government furlough scheme. It's one of the things that makes FSG good owners. They listen to the fans. And they're big enough to admit when they get it wrong.

Jay, Yes, they did, although JC tried to implicate Everton FC because the people who work at the club shop were put on furlough – but not by Everton FC rather by the company that employs them .

Should have just left it at "Sorry, we made a mistake."

I'm not a bit surprised they changed the decision and will now be made to look like the good guys. Just like I won't be surprised when they are awarded the premier league title if this season doesn't finish, because it certainly won't be nulled and void.

A truly shameless club. Ashamed of nothing. Offended by everything.

Their CEO Peter Moore now coming out and saying: "We believe we came to the wrong conclusion last week and are truly sorry for that" serves to highlight that the 'suits' at Liverpool thought it was perfectly legit to furlough staff at the expense of the UK tax payer.

This decision reversal is not for the benefit of the fuloughed staff, or to refrain from claiming monies from the public coffers. It is solely based on protecting the LFC 'brand' and its commercial value, soiled by their earlier call.

'Doing the morally correct and decent thing' has not entered into the equation. It's a by-product of this 'damage limitation' move. Not the main motivator of it.

It won't change the greed or how tone deaf they were in the first place, sadly it has played into stereotypes about Scousers and Liverpool as a city. The stain will never wash out.

I hope any so called credible and value principle based, businesses linked with RS frauds, now and leave them out to fester.

John Barnes, has not never got over being a very bad manager in football.

It’s ridiculous when the red mites come out and start pretending it’s all a miss understanding.

The fans I know home and abroad and many darn south, have again reaffirmed their mutual dislike for our neighbours these past few days.

The increasingly ridiculous RS Echo, at the same time must be one of the most obsolete media services in global media,

But, let’s not forget that EFC has shown its class and style and respect for humanity.

They have made their own Epitaph, and none will forget, including the RS, especially local RS supporters. You look after your own first, you don’t mess with hearts and minds, in view of what the City and many other places have been through in terms of hardship and deprivation.

Shallow as hell, weak as they come, the RS, have shown their true colours, and the shame is on them for eternity.

Yes, I can – the blue edit button appears above my message.

I will log onto my laptop in a bit and see if it appears there.

Any other posters not seeing an edit button?

18:39 Reds make u-turn on taking 'our' money.

18:58 Uefa President says :“I see no way for Liverpool to stay untitled,” Ceferin told Slovenian newspaper Ekipa.

“If the championship resumes, they will almost certainly win it. However, if it could not be played, it would also be necessary to announce the results in some way and find some key on how the champions should be determined. And, of course, again I do not see a scenario in which that would not be Liverpool.

“I understand that fans will be disappointed if it happens in an empty stadium or even at the green table, but I believe they will win the title one way or another.”

I think he said untitled but many would say entitled.

I'm sure the echo will be full of praise tomorrow, and I actually had another WhatsApp slagging Evertonians for laughing at their club, and trying to hit back with a load of bollocks about two billionaires trying to lend money off the council to build the Bramley-Moore Dock stadium.

The uproar off Liverpudlians might have stopped our council receiving around £150 million in these times of great need that are just around the corner but fuck them anyway because we know and they know and that's why I expect a load of fabricated texts about Everton during the next few days.

We can read them like a book an,d once this pandemic has passed, I hope Everton start writing a few chapters again just to see who the real bitter people are when things don't go there way!

I've no time for Boris Johnson, I'm glad he's not fit enough to lead our country, but I genuinely hope he makes a full recovery, against this horrible Covid-19. Just think of the irony in Liverpool's title, look at the number 19.

Hi David

I don't know if you've had other mails today Re the article by Phil Kirkbride “Everton face moral dilemma”? (6th April).

Everton have had a well thought out and structured Plan to deal with the Covid pandemic going back to January. If you haven't already read the excellent article in The Athletic I suggest you do. It's a well researched piece detailing the vision and subsequent application of a plan to tackle a pandemic by Everton's CEO and her management team.

So it was very disappointing to see this spurious article with its clear implication that Everton's early (and EPL leading) decision to fund staff salaries would be reviewed; with no substantive reasoning or evidence for this suggestion.

Why try and drag Everton into the debacle that other Clubs have embroiled themselves in? Your paper should be lauding Everton as a shining example of doing the right thing when many around have approached the whole issue so poorly. There's at least one Club on Merseyside that's always put people first and an article praising that would have been much more appropriate and would have sent a positive message in these trying times, rather than this pointless click bait.

I'd like to see this corrected by The Echo very soon with an apology to the Club for this poor excuse for journalism.

Best regards

Steve Guy

Sent from my iPhone

The Echo
I haven’t bought it this millennium.
Any Blue who buys it needs to have a serious word with themselves.
Only fit for arse-wiping at best - then again Is not worthy of my arse-hole.
Even the on-line version is trash.
I encourage Blues to boycott it.
Don’t even give them clicks.

Prentice is a RS lickspittle. Or arse-licker if you prefer.

One Evertonian is worth a thousand RS.

Just thought I’d get this off my chest.

Stay healthy Blues.
(I’m no Tory but include Boris Johnson in that sentiment. Hope he recovers.)

It brings scorn, embarrassment on any genuine matter were EFC or football bar the RS, is concerned and up holds applause for the classless RS.

The world knows their true colours, making a total mockery and own goal of their so called unwanted values.

But expect the gutter press and media to be be trying to contort the facts.

The world has seen and had enough of the RS.

Well done, excellent letter.

Belated thanks to Dave Ganley @183.

How appropriate that the accompanying picture of Gordon Taylor makes him look like one of the "Comedians" of the 1970s show.

Liverpool make a u-turn after a hit and run. I didn't think I could dislike that club anymore.

Funny how the Echo allow comments on an Everton article but made sure there was no comments on the Liverpool story the other day, where we could add our views.

Stay witty and stay safe!

Went to Submit your comment to send

Clicked on the refresh page

Bottom left hand corner - Edit button just below date and time and adjacent "Flag this comment"

Just editing now

Save changes on blue tab at the bottom

Done

Think I will just have to double check before hitting the submit button.

Stay safe!

I have cursed it many a time as I generally go through my contribution before submitting any post, then to my chagrin find that it has again been altered en route to the Editors, or appearing on TW.

It is infuriating to say the least, so don't self-flagellate yourself too much, it is not always yours or anyone's fault, unless there has been 'genuine typos'.

If they listened, they'd never have done it in the first place.

What a complete self-serving shithouse of a club.

And I'm glad you can't get the Echo up here.

Stay safe and well, everyone.

I sincerely hope you are all well and finding someway through these days - - I am very busy maintaining a daily on-line programme for all the young people involved in Yellow House.

I rarely if ever comment on here about Liverpool - - but as someone who constantly quotes Rick Parry to any Red who says "can't afford a ticket" - -a quite definite move towards "more affluent spenders than locals".

I found this article in The Guardian quite amazing - on the day that Oliver Holt, of course, has decided to praise "The Reds" for their turnaround - - worth a read.

Be safe, stay well.

I told him I expected a U-turn from Liverpool, and then their fans would be pacified, because a lot of the media, will go on about how the club, have once again listened to their fans. (We know the drill, pissssssing in pockets works wonderfully!)

My Arsenal mate text me last night with a thumbs up, telling me how right I was, laughing telling me his red mate had been back on, saying they always listen to the best fans in the world! How nauseatingly pacifying!!

This is the Guardian Link - - apologies.

Hi Stephen,

Dave passed on your thoughts about Phil's article. I feel that the piece was not intended to be critical of Everton in any way at all.

He is praising Everton "as a club that understands how much the game can be a force for good", and acknowledges their position in what is a difficult situation for all. Everton are themselves "regularly reviewing the situation" and Phil simply points out that they should continue to stick to their guns.

There is nothing spurious about it and I can assure you that Phil has thoroughly done his research and is one of, if not the best connected journalist covering the club right now.

As for praising Everton for the good they do, then no publication does that louder and more often than we do. In the past week alone we have published a number of stories praising the excellent work done by the club on Merseyside.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-make-huge-donation-help-17952820
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-fans-proved-right-club-18030010
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-taking-special-step-country-18026805
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/dad-left-tears-everton-fc-17949532
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/everton-make-brilliant-commitment-former-18020420

Kind regards,

Joe

Hi Joe thanks for your reply which I appreciate.
I have to tell you I wasn’t the only person who took my interpretation over the one you outline of the article’s content.
Perhaps clarity in the wording for future pieces might eradicate the potential for misinterpretation.

Thanks again

2019-20 Premier League Season “Should Be Cancelled” Say Unbiased Fans

The press won’t turn on the players, because they are to scared to tell the truth, in case the players take offence and refuse to deal with them in the future, so with a club like Liverpool FC, then you would only expect that fear to multiply one hundred-fold?

The average Kopites will still try and revile over our new home. Simply put, they never want a level playing field. So pour shit on anyone or anything who might prove a threat.

Classless.

Enough.

I do hope that you are all fit and well - - as much as can be - - take care of yourselves:
"How does it feel to be
One of the beautiful people
How often have you been there
Often enough to know
What did you see when you were there
Nothing that doesn't show"

Up The Blues - - Cosmic and Bluetiful Waves to You All from Blue Sky new Brighton. Yahooooooo.

If someone could give a tutorial on adding a link in here I'd be grateful!

Steve firstly copy the http address, then paste it into the comment box on here, next select what you pasted and then select [Green] URL under the comment box.

eg http/www.whateverAddress Select from browser address
copy and paste that into the comment box
highlight the address you pasted
Click the Green URL box under the comment box
should end up with something like "http/www.whatever>Link<

George (274), nice to hear from you George, hope you and all the lads you look after are doing okay, I keep telling myself we will soon be back at Goodison watching the Blues. Stay well George, and keep posting.

"Leagues across Europe have been told that ending competitions early could result in them forfeiting Champions League and Europa League places."

So the CL and EL would run a competition with a reduced number of teams? Or would make up the numbers with teams from Azerbaijan and Timbuktoo just to stick it to the European domestic leagues?? They'd be a laughing stock.

About time that the domestic leagues told them where to go and look after their own first.

My prediction was right, they have got this furlough cup flying round, and a tour bus saying our name on it, but like a “woman” who constantly switches the argument, they don’t fool us for a minute!

You’ve got to enter it to win it, and that’s why we never won the European cup.

Meanwhile in the real world these figures suggest it aint happening any time soon. Total lock down imminent?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8196183/UKs-coronavirus-death-toll-jumps-record-high-854-day-6-227-known-victims.html

Not sure I'll hold my breath though

It is now saying the transfer window will happen at a later date and any current contracts due to end in June will also be extended.

Everton are looking to offload Niasse, Martina and a few others.

Will Everton be expected to pay an extended contract for these guys, or will we be able to release these guys in June, rather than their contracts be extended.

Is this the case or is it a consequence of the Echo article. If so, Everton should, quite publicly, demand a retraction from both parties.

The Club might just agree to an extension though based on the players not being able to find other clubs due to Covid.

After all, we're not total arseholes like those across the park.

Personally I wouldn't blame the Club whatever way they choose to handle it.

Just wondering like. Job for life maybe? Un-accountable NGO with extraordinary power.

Who are these organisations that throw themselves up, like say, FIFA and UAFA? If nothing else the Premier League proved the impermanence of such things by marginalising the Football League. But then how sad that they cast aside their most enjoyable spectacle, the FA Cup. Still, I expect Rupert Murdoch didn't care much for it.

Gordon Taylor has confirmed he will leave his role as chief executive of the Professional Footballers' Association after 38 years. Taylor, 74, has headed up the players' union since 1981 after taking over from former secretary Cliff Lloyd.

But his departure comes after the organisation announced a "full and open review" into its finances. "I have given the majority of my life to the advancement of the PFA," he said at the PFA's annual general meeting. The meeting, held on Wednesday in Manchester, should have taken place in November.

Taylor will remain in his post until the review is complete and presented at the following AGM.

The PFA has also said its entire management committee and current chairman Ben Purkiss will step down.

Yet, here he is – over 12 months later!