New Francis Okoronkwo contract announced

If this is something that the coaches feel they can help improve, and he has other attributes, then that is okay.

But the strikers we tend to see coming through early are usually those scoring every week.

Maybe it's because he gets played wide a bit but even then he ought to be scoring more.

And he's not yet had any international recognition either – which is not a great sign.

But the club is obviously showing some faith with the new contract so hopefully he kicks on. But probably more likely that we're ensuring we get a Simms- or Cannon-like fee if sold in a couple of years.

I can't say I've seen much progress from him – some exciting "mazey" runs at times but often as not into a dead-end.

I know it's hard to predict, but what do you think?

He's 19 but nowhere near challenging for the first team. Dobbin is well ahead of him and he can't get any time to speak of, coming off the bench once in a Blue Moon under Dyche. So his chances must be rated slim at best.

I think the club need players at U21 and U18 level – by my limited records based on appearances, there's a whole slew of players currently out injured and they are struggling to field full teams and subs benches. So it makes sense to hold onto ones like him – he seems to have been largely injury-free.

But he just does not score enough goals.

Probably as likely to make it in the Premier League as his namesake from a Wimbledon Common!

It might spur him on, be the making of him, or he can't find a way to improve.

Hard to judge his standard as most academy players in the academy competitions he plays against every week won't make it to a Premier League player standard unfortunately for different reasons. Only playing in a men's league tells you if you can play against men, against different types of ages and styles of players.

Hopefully no more buys from academies in the future, but only transfers in of young lads who've played adult professional football in a lower league and done well like Branthwaite, Coleman, Dele, and Calvert-Lewin. If a teen footballer can handle it physically and the mental pressure at a lower but good men's league level, then it's a big tick on the sheet.

Loads of young professional players in leagues like Holland and Belgium waiting for a chance to do an Onana and up their game a division higher. Some buys may end up Championship level as their ceiling, but at least if they need to be sold off will make a decent profit. Will be a much better business model than buying kids from academies.

Good luck to him.

But I thought e.g. Price would get there. How wrong was I?

ps: U21s now, not U23s. Pedant, Stephens.

Here's hoping. Nothing better than seeing one of our own come through.

Kevin Ratcliffe. Gary Stevens. I know they weren't natives, but came through what was then not an academy but an apprenticeship.

And then, even though we didn't have him for long, Rooney.

As you say, prediction is, well, unpredictable! It's why I don't gamble apart from a £1 each way on the National!!

Looks like he was in the team for the first 5 matches at Standard Liege, lasting the full 90 in 2 of them and getting pulled in the other 3.

But for the last 3 months, he's become a permanent feature on the bench — at least getting called on in each game. But it looks like they expected more of him than they are getting.

Link

As for Franny Okoronkwo, it doesn't look like he scores enough to be excited but I think the goals he does score tend to be very well taken.

But that was the case with Simms.

Not impossible, just very, very low.

Ball, Jeffers, Dunne, Rodwell, Rooney, Vaughan, Anichebe, Barkley, Davies and Gordon all certainly got their first team minutes early and most were playing for England youth too.

Osman and Hibbert were exceptions, true. Which means there's still hope for players like Onyango, Dobbin, Mills, Warrington, Dixon and Metcalfe – but really our next regular first teamer from the academy is probably in the current U16 age group or younger.

If that's the case, that means there will be 2 full seasons ahead (24-25 & 25-26) to loan Francis out (preferably to Championship Clubs like what we did with Simms and Cannon) and observe his progress. Barring injuries, 2 full seasons with Championship &/or League 1 Teams would represent a big enough track record to establish a fair market value for Francis.

(What we are putting Lewis Warrington through these 2+ seasons so far provides the perfect blue print.)

If he pans out and finds his way into the First Team, great; But if not (&/or the possibility that Francis wants to find greener pastures and refuses to sign an extension), Thelwell can activate the Club Option in June 2026 to either buy time for negotiations of an extension (like Doucoure this year) or selling Francis as an expiring contract to replenish the coffer.

No more selling young assets on discounts a la Antonee Robinson (he is now worth at least 10 times more than the £1 Million we got for him from Fulham) & Joe Williams.

No more enforced nominal returns like Thierry Small (by tribunal) and Isaac Price (by UEFA).

No more Free Transfers like Tom Davies & Jonjoe Kenny.

This contract extension put us at a position to get the best deal in the market for Francis if needed (a la the cases for Simms & Cannon, IMHO). That is a testament to the very, very late modernisation of the Club's Players Trading & Asset Replenishment approach implemented after Thelwell's arrival.

But as always, better late than never.

Grade = B-

Isn't Davies a prime example of why we need to be careful of contract extensions? We kept him far too long. No serious club was interested when we didn't renew again, especially at the wages we were paying. Sheffield United eventually picked him up, but he's barely featured, even for a team so poor.

I think our bigger problem is keeping Championship players (if that) for too long, hoping/pretending they will one day be Premiership standard. And it is sobering that Davies actually represented England at pretty much all age levels, and as a semi regular. In a way, he is a sort of benchmark for when we get excited about new talent. Many frogs have to be kissed before you get a prince.

He is still a Premier League / Championship level player so I agree with your point that we should have sold him sooner.

The list of Everton graduates playing in the Championship is pretty extensive so I think the onus is on the club to cash out at the right time. There are plenty of kids on the books that are capable of making a decent living out of football, obviously we'd all rather it was with us.

I don't think it detracts from your point Dupont that it's a good idea to tie down promising players between ages 18 to 21 - in order to maximise our sale proceeds if we sell.

Keeps the kitty topped up for spending on genuine first teamers.

Worse yet, because of the very different tactical styles of each successive manager, Tom, Jonjoe and others like them were never in a position to nail down a position or a place in the team.

Thelwell's 'new' policy is to add value to players, so whether he plays for us or not he will hopefully be worth more and add to the coffers when we decide to cash in.

True, he is currently injured but nor did he figure much when he wasn't, in what is manifestly a poor team. Moreover there was a distinct lack of interest in him, so no-one was seeing a hidden gem.

Perhaps one ought to say that there is no shame in being Championship level (or even lower). It still means you are a terrific player, a success by any normal measure, among a small elite, just not quite at the pinnacle. And you can still earn a decent living, in some cases a very good one.

A few weeks ago I checked out the fate of many of our younger players who were 'hot prospects' at the time and most ended up in the lower leagues, Div 1 or 2. That could actually be argued as a success, and we are in fact pretty good at producing professional footballers from our youth, just not so much for our first team.

Davies likely would have been snapped up by Championship clubs, maybe with a small fee, but the wages we were paying him were way too high for this level. Our mistake, not his...

Some of that comes from nous and confidence. I think if Tom Davies were coming through now under Dyche then his career would be much the better for it. Kenny, too.

How do you come to that conclusion?

Dyche has been reluctant to use anyone outside of his core 13 or 14 players. Even then, subs are limited to 5-minute appearances.

He was also the last person to recognise that Branthwaite should be getting a game over the likes of Keane. And he appears to be similarly stubborn on the Patterson / Young situation.

I agree on Kenny but agree with birthday boy Mike Gaynes on Davies.

I can't accept that several 'player failures' may have flourished under his tutelage. It's almost tantamount to saying how would Dixie, Alex Young, Kevin Sheedy etc, have fared today in the modern game? Hypotheses in all cases!

However I can only endorse that I believe we have the right manager in our present situation, and I also believe, given time, and backing in the transfer market, we may be seen as a force again.

I appreciate, like many before me on this thread, I have digressed from the original Francis Okoronkwo issue, that does tend to happen on TW. Having seen this lad a few times, he never really got my pulse racing, like many before him, and in my opinion better, not making the grade!

As for Jonjoe, he's a one-position player, and when he was coming through the position was occupied by one Seamus Coleman, with whom he could never compete. He's found his level in the 2.Bundesliga.

I wish them both nothing but the best, but they just didn't have the talent.

And a well organised 4-4-1-1 is ideal for these two. Neither would be first teamers – but a bit more nous and confidence in the right set up and they could both have been a reliable part of the 2nd string. A bit like, say, John O'Shea holding his own at Man Utd when in all honesty he wasn't a great player.

Coleman was indeed our right-back, Mike, but we went through spells of Holgate, Iwobi and others in that position.

Osman and Hibbert were two of the finest servants and committed players we've had in the past few decades. Yet, and let's be honest, both took the brunt of Goodison criticism.

I always maintain that had Leon played in the Bundesliga, he'd have been a star. I know I keep repeating myself, but I'd take him back tomorrow coaching the youngsters at Finch Farm. And pinch Pienaar who is coaching the kids at Ajax.

Jonjoe was an interesting one. I had hopes for him and like with all Everton players, we want them to come good and succeed. Although he went on to have a few decent games for us after, my mind was made up watching him play for Schalke against RB Leipzig in a 5-1 defeat.

Admittedly he was played as a wing back rather than his natural right back position, but he got well and truly skinned time after time. He's back in Germany now with Hertha Berlin.

I, like many, was often critical of Tom Davies. But I do think he suffered from the instability around the club that possibly (not definitely) stifled his development. Like a lot of our young players of recent years.

Talented and making a living in the game. More than most of us do, so respect to him. Although I see he's not made too many appearances for Sheffield United.

On the England Youth thing, think John Ebbrell. Came through the Everton and England youth system, tipped as a future England, let alone Everton, captain. Injuries and whatever else saw him fail to live up to the high expectations.

I done a quick search. The date is raw, so excuse me. 1.5M players in organised football in England. The success rate of ending up playing for a Premier League club is 0.012%.

But I wouldn't criticise or doubt. It just goes to show that you never really know or predict. Apart from the odd freak like Rooney, most don't live up to early expectations.

Being blunt (not critical), but the English academy system has been wrong for decades and needs overhauling in my opinion. Everton's was left in the wrong hands and we've seen the output, which has mainly been false hope in thinking we've found the next Wayne Rooney.

Revolutionise the system. Make an example, Everton. There is one of the richest footballing talent pools on our doorstep. Get out there and promote Everton in the football community, not lock kids behind the gates of Finch Farm from the age of 8.

Apologies. I do tend to get emotive about this topic.

Jonjoe played in a terrible Everton defence with Keane at the centre of it, in one game versus Wolves at Goodison, Keane stood with the ball like a dummy not knowing what to do with the ball,Jonjoe, a young kid, was screaming at him to get the ball up the pitch, Keane was an English international who cost £25!

Nous may not give you pace or strength but it will give you, with experience,where to run,when to run and how to use the ball better, holding on or releasing the ball quicker, honestly I don’t know if either would have become stalwart players for the Blues but they started with poor disorganised Everton teams and it stayed like that until they both left.

I can't think of many, (maybe Richarlison, Deulofeu and James). TD is often on the Subs bench at Sheffield United, but very rarely included from the start. As they say in High Court " I arrest my case m'lud ".

Haaland is a cash machine that pays out very often and will continue until he retires, Everton? Never a chance.

I also heard that it was a deferred 6 point deduction, which would be written off if no further infringements occurred, and that was the season after next !

Confused Dot Com ? You bet I am !

Everton were with hindsight completely daft to supply enough information for the Premier League to hang us. Having said that, the very fact that an accountant wasn't able to navigate the rules that his club agreed to, is testament to what a completely unsuitable owner Moshiri has turned out to be.

He'll get much of his money back when he sells, we'll be struggling for years to come and might even go out of business if we can't somehow survive in the Premier League for this and a few more seasons.

Not too shabby a goal either.