Bayern enter the race for Onana

I am sure most Blues are scratching their heads trying to understand what teams like Barcelona and Bayern Munich are seeing in Onana that we don't.

Barcelona are reportedly willing to offer a pick of Ansu Fati, Sergino Dest, Lenglet (@ Villa), and one more upcoming youngster Lopez in exchange for Onana plus some cash. I say, take the cash and run!

Ajay, I don't know about ‘most blues'. There's a fair few of us who have been singing his praises from the get-go. This season, he has really pushed on.

Most of the biggest clubs in the world now seem to have him in or around their shopping list yet many of our fans will still complain that he doesn't dominate games!

I wonder if we sell him for £60-70m whether that means we will be able to keep Branthwaite for another year? Hopefully.

It’s all very well playing for Bayern or Barca but can he do it on a wet and windy Easter Saturday in Bournemouth? We will find out soon!

Ajay,

I imagine the thinking by these other clubs is his potential soars above playing for non-challenging outfits like Everton. Probably they reckon he's going through the motions right now awaiting a move to somewhere decent.

The more the merrier as far as suitors go. If we have to sell, then let's have a bidding war and get as much as we possibly can for him.

I would cash in on Onana and Branthwaite – raise £150M, pay off debts, buy low, sell high... we have to do this for a few cycles, get the team back to basics, stop trying to pretend we are more than we are...

With £70M of that £150M to spend, we can bring in 3-4 maybe 5 players across the squad from lower leagues and even 2-3 loans - and push on. That's 5-8 players in for 2 out... wish them both well, clearly good players that will get better in better teams. I don't wish them any ill will, I don't think either is suited for the game we need to play to keep ourselves alive.

I think we need to play reality ball for a while. We need bodies that can run, bodies that can graft and grind our draws and run teams into the ground, we need players that can week-in and week-out work with the manager we have.

We need a Dyche squad, not players he inherited, so he can Franken-play us out of trouble. We need to keep our heads above water and stop thinking that at this stage we can compete for Olympic Gold.

We need a few years where we are not scrapping for our lives by January. We need time, and we need bodies. We need more than Onana and Branthwaite can provide. Sell them on... the more teams that want them, the better.

Speak for yourself, Ajay.

Onana is a Rolls-Royce in the making. He has all the attributes of a Paul Pogba but with the desire to be a top, top player.

Unlike Pogba, who pissed his talent away seeking the bright lights, this lad wants to go all the way.

Message for Jarrad Branthwaite, before you consider leaving Everton, study the career of the erstwhile potential captain of England ie Jack Rodwell and Ross Barkley whose main roles for several years were benchwarmers and quota makers! You will learn more here by playing every week!

Onana - all the talent of Patrick Viera with the steely determination of Alessandro Pistone.

Ray Mia #6

"We need a Dyche squad"

Those might be the 5 most terrifying words in the English language.

Ray #6, we can't afford to pay off debt, we would need that £150 million for cash flow just to keep our heads above water.

And then you even reduce it by half!!!

£150m doesn't even pay back 777 Partners but then it's how it reduces the 3-year losses to less than £105M which means servicing the debt, that is paying the interest rather than noticeably reducing the debt and hoping there is enough left to meet ongoing overheads.

Then we need an owner with a plan.

I chuckled when I saw this headline, picturing the eager jostling of our expert Onana critics ready to proclaim Bayern's bewildering stupidity at their interest in the player -- a stupidity apparently exceeded only by that of Barcelona.

Who will be the first to say "bite their hand off"??

Exactly Alan #12

Mike #13, Ajay at #1!!!!!

Trevor Powell 8 - it's 2024 now Trevor, Ross yawn, Jack yawn, you need to move on lad.

Oh, I see that you didn't mention Stones.

Mike G - 13 - I always respect your opinion. I would never scroll past a Gaynes post, Help me here Mike.

On at least three occasions I've replayed a match on Peacock specifically to. watch Onana,

Each time, I've been left shaking my head – his long passing is poor, I rarely see him drift strategically wide, his shooting is bang average but once in a while one will go in, for such a big fella his impact at corners at either end, is poor, for a tall fella he doesn't score enough headers.

1660 minutes this season, No assists. He's a fecking central midfielder… not one! 2 goals, Very poor return. He is not what I would call creative and he doesn't shine defending in our box.

So what is he, Mike, Sam?

I have infinite respect for both of you so, can you educate me, what has Onana done to, never mind supposedly attract £60 or 80 million bids, what has he done for what we paid for him?

Not one assist. not one, and that fecking arrogant "I am" penalty.

Sorry, Mike, £60 or 80M is silly money. Let them pay it. Problem is Mike and Sam, how can we trust our club to reinvest that money for what goes on on the pitch?

Onana is young and has potential. He will become a good, maybe great player depending on the team he is playing in and players he is surrounded by.

That's why the likes of Bayern and Barcelona are allegedly showing interest.

He is an Everton player for at least the rest of this season, as is Branthwaite and they will play tomorrow.

Danny,

Onana is young and has potential. He will become a good, maybe great player depending on the team he is playing in and players he is surrounded by.

We could say that about countless players. Not enough my friend.

Give me specific answers to the concerns I raised, reasonably, I think, Danny, and not some general blanket statement that, quite honestly, with respect mate, adds little to the debate.

Discuss him now not in some imaginary future when some unknown European club pays silly money for him. That silly money in no way justifies what I for one see when I see him in our shirt.

But, fuck me, he's a world leader in kissing the badge and running straight away to our fans, except, of course, after his bellend me me me me twat of a penalty.

I can't wait for his "I love Everton" post when he trots off to sunnier climes.

No Assists; 2 Goals

He's an Everton player.

That's emotional talk Danny and gets us precisely nowhere.

I am as yet, still unconvinced, so - bite their hand off!

Regardless of the many views on his current and future ability, if anyone offers decent money, then he will be gone. We are beyond skint, verging on completely fucked, so he will go.

I imagine Branthwaite will go too. In the normal course of events, you would hope for something north of £120m combined and hope that the manager could turn that into 4 decent signings who could add depth and continue a proper rebuild. That rebuild would be over 4 seasons.

Sadly we will sell both of them and the money will disappear into normal running costs and won't even reduce debt. Deep down, we all know it too…

I don't think we have much choice but to sell one of our biggest assets. Braithwaite, Pickford or Onana (in terms of transfer fee).

I'd rather sell Onana than the other 2. It's possible that he could become a very good midfielder, but at this very minute, he's pretty average. The shame is that whatever transfer fee can be achieved, very little of that cash will be available to spend on a replacement.

Paul F @16, hope you're doing well Paul.

In terms of Onana, here is what I see:

First of all I'm very wary of looking at assists, as they depend on people to finish the chances and we all know how bad we've been at that this season. Onana rates pretty well in chances created compared to other midfielders across Europe (top 35%) but we just never finish them.

His attacking potential is obviously limited by us being terrible in possession but he is one of our players who always shows for the ball and can use his height/strength to shield it well. He's very composed for such a young player and seldom loses it despite wanting the ball in crowded areas. His passing is accurate if not always penetrating but then at Everton his options are limited. He has the potential to do better.

Defensively he's already top notch. He wins the second most tackles in our team behind Gueye. He is almost never dribbled past and wins a very high percentage of his duels both on the ground and in the air. His positioning and reading of the game could improve but is already pretty great for a 22 year old. He was also recorded recently as the fastest defensive midfielder in the league.

So in short, he's very young, he's rapid, he's strong, he's 6 ft 4, he's confident and composed, he's very hard to get round and wins most of his duels, he rarely loses the ball, he's aggressive, his passing is accurate with the potential to improve.

He was arguably one of the best players on the pitch when England played Belgium recently and will go on to play at the highest levels I suspect.

Paul 16, watch Onana play for Belgium. When he's playing alongside better players he's magnificent.

Even Messi (in his prime) would struggle playing Dyche ball.

It isn't emotional Paul.

He has potential.

It looks like he will live that that elsewhere.

He is going to be be a great player.

I'm with Duncan @21. Given we almost certainly will have to sell, he is the most expendable.

I like this idea that players who look seriously average would flourish away from our poor team. There's a few others in our squad I'd like to apply that sales line to, and see if we could shift them on to some poor innocent.

Onana will be a great player and is learning football lessons the very hard way at Everton.

He missed a penalty, a moment in this season. He is rapid in descision-making but most players in this squad don't think on his wavelength.

I'll be pissed off when he leaves, the legacy, of the greatest Evertonians tenure along with worst Football CEO, of all time.

But Everton can survive and a new beginning if the hurdles,that Masters and his crooks, design, can be over come.

Most importantly, Everton start winning games again, and get enough points to counter any further deductions.

Good thread with some very sensible posts on both sides of the Onana argument.

Barry@4, probably sums it up best, because for all his perceived potential, there are definitely times that Onana doesn't do anywhere near enough for a combative midfield player.

If he his to fulfill his potential, then this has got to change, otherwise he will remain a ten-a-penny midfield player, who has talent but doesn't use it enough to be considered an influential player.

What is real sad is that he will never achieve what he is capable of if he stays with us. He needs an environment where he is surrounded by other top quality players. Until our finances are sorted, we can't in the short to medium term create that kind of environment.

Paul@18
To be fair, Danny makes a good point saying that if the likes of Bayern and Barcelona, and reportedly clubs here, can see something in Onana, then maybe there’s more than just badge kissing to his game. We need only look at Maupay to see how Everton’s style of play doesn’t get the best out of some players. From being arguably the worst forward seen at Goodison to someone who has helped Brentford is the obvious illustration. The fact that you say that ‘ We could say that about countless players’ just underlines how much unlocked potential there is in the team. We just need a system to release it. And also correct and timely substitutions, tactics, team selection…..etc.

The problem is that raising, say, £130m by selling Branthwaite and Onana raises more questions than solutions.

Will the money go just to pay off debt with a couple of bargain basement journeymen to replace them? Will other clubs see we’re ‘loaded’ and charge more for replacements? Will players and their agents think similarly and look for bigger wages?

And if those two are sold wages of incoming players become important as we will need to comply with the new wages rule. Aaaagh!

Sometimes having more to do makes a player work harder Ray, and without being absolutely sure, I think Onana has had some of his better games when he has played in a two man midfield alongside James Garner?

Pickford, Brainthwaith and Onana, should get Everton around £140 million, but if they played for other clubs they would probably fetch a lot more?

We are rudderless and skint right now, but hopefully this is going to change in the not too distant future, and if this is the case, then we need sensible management and prudence, and then we need to go and find ourselves an identity, and start to push on and make Everton begin to exist once again, for what we use to always exist for, before the sickeningly deceitful charlatan got involved.

If, as seems likely, Onana will be sold this summer, then the net gain for Everton won’t be as lucrative as we might hope if, as reported, some 20% of the sell-on goes to Lille: On a £60 million sale, for example, the uplift would only be £15 m, having paid out £33m for the player, and accounting for what SC Lille would be recompensed.

Of course, the “big money” would revolve around the sale of Branthwaite, given he was bought for a buck, and there is proportionately less of a sell - on element due to Carlisle United. I was amazed to see Jeff Stelling quoted as saying that the player “ could be acquired for around £45m”. I think Jeff must be losing is mojo. More like £75 to £80m, surely?
As for our third sellable asset, I cannot see any circumstance in which Jordan Pickford should- or will- be sold, save for us being relegated: he cost £30m as a raw recruit, he is settled at Everton, and in the North West as are his family by all accounts.

For some very odd reason, England’s stand out #1 ‘keeper rarely figures in reports linked to any big looking for a replacement ? The only link I can recall was when Spurs were looking to replace Lloris, but I could never envisage a scenario of JP moving to the capital.
JP is one of the main reasons we are still a PL club, and he has now become a mainstay, with a much improved temperament.

Sorry about the long post, guys. I have just realised how sad it is that we are all having to accept that, yet again, The Toffees are having to our best players who should really be our launch pad to improvement. At this moment, Pickford is the only one of the three I can see lining up at Goodison next season.

Well, Onana certainly divides opinion. I will admit when I saw the headlines "Bayern are after Onana", I thought they were talking about Man Utd's keeper.

How he supposedly attracts the attention of some top teams is beyond me: he doesn't create a lot, he doesn't score many goals, and certainly for the size of him doesn't dominate midfield.

Lyndon said in his post Onana turned heads at Wembley… Well, you can't compare him to Mainoo who has absolutely everything, as does Foden, and probably the best midfield player in Europe, Jude Bellingham. These are all young players with way more talent than Onana.

He has been an ever-present during our battles with relegation, and for me goes missing for large parts of the game, in fact for the first 20 minutes at Wembley, I forgot he was playing as he hardly had a touch of the ball.

But football is all about opinions and I am sure many posters will tell me I am completely wrong about Onana.

I don't know why Pickford gets mentioned as a big money raiser. No one will pay a big fee for him and last season proved it.

His agent played a blinder with rumours of Spurs and Man Utd interest when there was zero interest and a massive outcry against, from their supporters.

He got a new contract on improved terms from Everton…. wouldn't you love to play poker against Everton's negotiating team!

Brian (33),

You are wrong about Onana, as I am. What we can't see is that Onana is going to be a great player in the future, not now, so all the little good things he does now and again at present he will do all the time when he moves away from Everton.

To be honest I don't know where he's going to get the energy from in the future because, as we see, he goes missing for large parts of the game. Mind you, if he wins a throw-in, he's a bundle of energy imploring the crowd to liven up and cheer.

Also, at the end of the game, he's unbelievably energetic –walking all over the pitch applauding the crowd – I bleedin' wish he was like that during the game.

Brianb@33, you say he was missing for first 20 minutes despite him getting an assist for Tielemans's goal in the 11th. Often people's eyes will see what they want to!

I don't think he's in the same class as Foden or Bellingham but they are arguably 2 of the best young players in the world right now. If he was that good, we'd be getting £140m for him rather than £60m.

Ultimately the proof is in the pudding and, if we sell Onana for close to a £30m profit, then he will have been an excellent signing, a template to follow moving forwards.

Over the years, almost all of our very best players have been derided by a large proportion of the fan base; Richarlison, Sigurdsson, Stones, Lukaku, Pickford and now Onana. There are various reasons for this!

I think Sam's explanation of Onana's strengths makes it pretty obvious why Champions League clubs want a player of this nature. Complaints that he doesn't score enough goals must come from people who thought Makelele was the passenger in a midfield trio with Lampard and Essien. Maybe Xavi and Busquets were rubbish in their eyes too?

It is a shame that he will leave, but we have to move on – as Liverpool did after selling Torres, Suarez and Coutinho, and as Brighton do as a business model, and as Leverkusen have done in Germany to immensely good effect.

The key is to buy more players with future Champions League potential – accepting that they make take a few years to develop. The sooner we start on this journey, the sooner we reach a point where we have a critical mass of players of technique and quality to elevate us beyond shit football and relegation fights.

I watched the England game (unusual for me) and I was gobsmacked when I read on here and on The Poeple's Forum that people thought Onana had a good game. He was ordinary (IMO).

Again, I have no doubt that he is an excellent footballer… but not for us he isn't. He plays for his stats, not the team. If he stepped up out of his comfort zone, he could turn a game or two, but he doesn't. We're a stepping stone is all.

For years we've bought midfielders who can only function as part of a midfield 3, thus limiting our options. Now we have 2 players who operate well as a midfield pair and we want to get rid of one of them.

We may be on a dreadful run but look back to as recent as the Man Utd game. We dominated a team that's pushing for the Champions League at their place. Onana is a massive part of that team. We're let down by our forwards at the moment – not by one of the players who holds the midfield together.

Be careful what you wish for – we'll end up with the equivalent of Schneiderlin, Gomes and Allan in midfield again.

Sam 36,

Yes, he did make the pass to Tielemans but to put that down as an assist is for me very generous. I know its technically called an assist as he passed to a player who scored, albeit that player scored from about 25 yards out.

Just to be clear, I want Onana to be the super player some claim he is, but I can't recall to many games were I have come out of Goodison and thought he was our best player.

I know a lot is made of player stats and one is completed passes, but maybe the stats should concentrate more on forward passes than square or back passes. When Onana made his debut away at Villa, I was really excited; he only came on for the last 15 minutes or so, but he picked the ball up just outside their area, ran into the box, beat a man, then squared it for a goal, a proper assist.

I thought at last we have got a midfield player happy to carry the ball into the opponents box, but sadly that's hardly happened since. I would play him as an attacking midfield player and encourage him to get into the box at every opportunity. This would give us 3 tall men in the opponent's box to hit with a cross.

Onana plays in a terrible Everton team. Personally, I don't know whether or not he will shine in a better team. I think he will, but I also think he disappears for long stretches of a match, in a way that Declan Rice, for example, doesn't.

I think he will be sold this summer and the money will pay down some of our debt rather than be invested in the squad. In a year's time, I'll have forgotten he ever played for us so minimal has his impact been. Not his fault, it's just an awful squad of players, clinging on yet again in the Premier League, and that makes it difficult to see just how good he is.

On the other hand, because his position is more visible perhaps, I can see that Branthwaite has the potential to go all the way to the top. I hope we can keep hold of him.

Brian, what you suggest are tactics of desperation for a poor side. Onana's job in any decent side is to not vacate his position in front of the centre-backs – and instead to retain possession, recycle the ball with often very straightforward passes and then to find his quality team mates in forward positions now and again.

This may sound like a very easy position to play but few do it well. Again, as Sam has demonstrated, Onana does play the position well – he just happens to do it for a crap side.

I can see both your points of view on that assist, Brian and Sam, but what can't be argued is that Onana knew what he was doing, and it was clever, instinctive play. This is something I wish he would do a lot more of for Everton.

If he did try and take the bull by the horns a lot more, then I don't think people would be debating that he needs better players around him to flourish, because he would already be flourishing if he began to do this!

I never watched the game, but watching those highlights just now and Pickford's mistake, then I'm glad it happened for England rather than for Everton.

He's been getting on my nerves lately coming out of his area, thinking he's a quarterback footballer, and it was only a matter of time before he was going to get punished for being too casual and thinking he's better than he his with the football.

I can't believe nobody has told him to get back in his area and leave it to one of the centre-halves but I suppose this is what begins to happen when you let your goalkeeper start taking free-kicks by the halfway line.

Just as an aside, also, it seems bizarre to me that there are so many people passionately arguing for Harry Tyrer (age 22) to be awarded a new contract after helping Chesterfield get promotion from the 5th tier – on the basis that he is still very young and there is plenty of time still for him to make it with Everton.

We also have lots of people arguing that Onana (age 22) is more than old enough now to be dominating games in the midfield for Everton against Premier League opposition.

An awful lot more maturity seems to be demanded of young foreign players, compared with their (sometimes older!) British counterparts coming through the academy.

Colin @23,

Onana was “magnificent” against England. Is that your idea of irony? Must be surely?

Brian@40, sure, it wasn't the most impressive assist and as I mentioned earlier I put don't put too much stock in assists alone as a statistic anyway, depends too much on other players good or bad finishing.

I agree that stats for forward/progressive passes are perhaps more important than passes completed. Onana scores ok in these stats but its harder when your team lacks the movement or pace to get players into space. I think in a better team he definitely has the attributes to find those passes.

Lampard tried him more as an attacking player but i'm not sure it plays to his strengths. As discussed on this thread, he's currently better defensively than with the ball. His shooting is probably one of the weakest parts of his game and I think long term his future will be as a 6 or possibly an 8.

I think based on evidence so far, Onana looks good in front of the back four.

In a top team like Real Madrid, he can play further forward and play passes to the left forward to run onto as Junior is lightening quick. Currently, as soon as he gets towards the halfway line, 5 passes between the centre back and full back in each half may result in a winger getting there first 1/5 times each half. So we know due to lack of pace, defenders will almost always get there first. It would make him look like a poor player. At Real, this kind of pass would make him look a world beater.

However, as his ball retention is very good, why not try him 15 yards further up to see if he can recycle the ball higher up, win a few fouls for set piece opportunities or keep the ball up the pitch longer. It might also allow the team to find a way to work more crossing positions.

Another thing as others have wrote in the past, if Onana is here for a season or two, where is the next Onana in the squad ready made to walk in to the team? Why isn't there one on the bench or on loan like the Branthwaite pathway? Whether he goes for £60 or whatever number isn't the main problem. The problem is the player succession plan for all 11 positions in the 1st team. What is it?

Robert, I wasn't suggesting we don't have a holding defensive midfield player, I was suggesting we use Onana in a more forward role.

You may view playing Onana in a more forward position as tactics of a desperate side, I would remind you that we are again in a relegation battle for the third year on the run so I think things are pretty desperate.

In your post 37, you suggested that those who say Onana doesn't score many goals would no doubt think Makelele and Xavi and Busquets were rubbish in their eyes to. Listing some of the great defensive midfield players, you didn't mention for me the best of the lot Franco Baresi.

You then suggest that we have to adopt a model of signing potential future Champions League players and developing them as if this is a new idea. The much maligned David Moyes did this for years and mainly kept us in the top half of the table, the number of players he bought then sold to Champions League clubs was phenomenal, and he must have one of the biggest financial profits taking in inflation of any manager in the Premier league.

Finally, you suggest that most of our best players have been derided by the majority of the fans, but that might be something that is more the case now than it ever used to be.

Certainly I don't remember to many complaining about Bobby Collins, Dave Hickson, Ball, Kendall, Harvey even put up a statue for these 3, Kay, Reid, Royle, Young, Vernon, Southall. I will stop there.

Tony @43, absolutely right. He's getting involved in areas of play which aren't his, and his constant chirping at his own defenders is unsettling.

He needs to calm down generally and concentrate on his own job. Fortunately he's pretty good at that.

I'm definitely in the Paul Ferry camp.

The lad may have potential, but he needs to show that potential for more than 10 minutes per game. His second touch is almost always a tackle. Watching the West Ham game, 10 minutes into the second half the guy next to me said 'I think we should get Onana on', I looked at him and wasn't sure if that was a joke!

I wish he would put as much effort into 90 minutes as he does into his countless laps of honour and badge tapping.

For me at present he is a waste of a blue shirt and while he undoubtedly has potential, we can't afford to play potential for 90 minutes and if the rest of the midfield 4 is Harrison, Garner and McNeil we need a player who is totally involved and committed.

Brian (48),

Colin Harvey didn't score many goals throughout his career but he was in the game from start to finish at the age of 17,18, 19. He also had his critics but won them over just by playing the same game he always played. Nobody absolutely nobody had to tell him to get more involved in the game. Now, even most of Onana's admirers admit he doesn't get involved enough.

As for Sam (22), with all due respect, that is a very hyped version of Onana. I honestly wish I could say I've seen that Onana, unfortunately I never have, not even close to that version.

Jason #47,

Absolutely, you've hit your head on our great failing. The only youth talent bought for development is Chermiti and there's nothing much coming out of the academy as Dyche has noted.

That does appear to be changing though, recruitment into the academy has started again and we are seriously linked with a lot of teenagers at the moment. Transitioning to a player development club as Thelwell seems intent on (and 777 Partners have implemented at Genoa) should improve things with time.

Until then, it will make it very difficult to replace Onana and Branthwaite. Based on rumours, Greaves of Hull is the very likely Branthwaite replacement. That is a very expensive way of going about it all, since Greaves will probably cost more than £20M and isn't as good as Branthwaite (although he is quite good). Hence we deteriorate.

Onana will also be very difficult to replace with someone as talented who is ready to step into the side straight away. However, I think lots of fans would prefer someone less talented who more obviously gets stuck in. Someone like Shea Charles of Saints if they fail to get promoted.

If 777 Partners do takeover, I could see us signing 11 players for the first team squad but almost all for low fees (and a lot more as teenagers for youth development).

ps: Brian, Baresi was a CB, not a DCM.

Sam, are you related to Sir Samuel Hoare, one time Ambassador to Madrid?

Just curious, his name cropped up in a book I've just finished reading.

Robert (@52),

Yes, there is not much to rave about in the Academy players, in fact if you put Onyango in the first team instead of Onana it would take time for some fans to notice the difference!

Onana does frustrate, but to say he does not have quality is silly unless it is measured purely in perspiration. Given we as Everton fans praised Stracqualursi but wrote off James Rodriguez, that could be the case these days.

He can pick the ball out of defence, open up his body and pick out a pass under pressure, therefore for me is a Number 6 at the moment. His defensive tackling is good and he has the physique to manage in the Premier League.

As Onana matures his game, he will be more impactful further up the field also. Barcelona, Bayern and Arsenal are interested on him and he will fetch £60 million or more when he is sold. He has been a good signing and this is an example of the new model working better.

I will believe the model is working really well when we sign players like Onana for the €12M that Lille paid for him.

Robert #52,

Totally agree and as you wrote because the club has been slow to a succession plan, with Chermiti, Patterson and Virginia as the 3 positions possibly out of 11 first team positions. It's going to be both expensive and potentially the new players transferred in won't be anywhere near as good as the outgoing players if they have to be bought ready-made and low-market prices.

So unfortunately it would be an interesting question if the recruitment looked at if it's a good idea to splash out on a youngish player at a similar price £35m to when he came, and buy the next very young Onana to put on the bench. Not to buy 5 players. Go for quality every time.

Of course, doesn't not have to be totally like Onana. And maybe if budget allows a 3rd player to develop for another position. Definitely not 5 players who are bang average close to their peak. I still believe with a very good first 11 succession plan in 3 years this club can challenge for European spots.

The number of inches Onana generates in these pages, says everything in itself, having both his supporters and detractors. I must say that at this current time and given our circumstances I tend to align with the latter.

The lad clearly has ability and that's obviously what the likes of Barca & Bayern observe in him, he reminds me in many respects to Ross Barkley when here, and the comments of one of our coaches at that time resonate in regards to Onana. He said to me that what Ross lacked, you couldn't coach, and I took that to mean he had bundles of natural talent, but harnessing that talent in a top-level professional environment was something else entirely.

Ross was undisciplined & unreliable and that's why he didn't fit Moyes's style, whereas Martinez was prepared to try and accommodate him. Onana has similar traits and that's not something that fits well in the job description of a defensive midfielder.

It's noticeable that Ross now looks a much better player whilst still posmsessing some of these traits, because his manager has given him a free role with less demands on him, although it requires others to compensate.

Unfortunately the reality is that Onana may prove to be the player that many on here believe he is, but he's not what we need now, given our position. We're more in need of Garner's than Onana's if we're going to survive and stay in this league. Onana will have served his purpose given our current plight if we can secure something like a £75M transfer fee for him, clearing a £30M profit after paying Lille their 20%.

Is Onana the next Lukaku? Derided by some, loved by many, missed by all.

I’d just like to add, R.I.P. Larry Lloyd. Despite playing for the rs and Forrest he was a great, solid, no-nonsense defender. I remember my older brother was gobsmacked when the shankley sold him but he had a brilliant career under Clough winning everything available at the time.

Steve #20

"Sadly we will sell both of them and the money will disappear into normal running costs and won't even reduce debt. Deep down, we all know it too…"

At least it won't go into Chairman Bill's 'Other Operating Costs'

Let Barca think Bayern is in the driver seat and then see what a deal with Dest in exchange will bring.

As long as any transfer kitty (hah!) we get to play with; is spent on similar sellable prospects, then i'll get over it. Too many more Bolasies, Sigurdssons, and Betos and we really are sunk.

Jason # 56, even if we bring in, say, £140m from the sales of Branthwaite and Onana, I think it is out of the question we will pay as much as £35m for any player in summer (or indeed for the foreseeable future).

Firstly, about 50% of the sales proceeds might be earmarked for paying down debt. So £140m proceeds translate into a £70m transfer kitty. Unfortunately it could even be a lot less than that.

Secondly, we will lose Gueye, Coleman, Gomes, Alli, Harrison, Danjuma and Young for nothing. We might also lose Godfrey, Keane, Holgate, Maupay but for very small fees. I suspect we'll need up to about 11 new players for the first team squad.

Thirdly, at Genoa, 777 have been willing to sanction spending (and on lots of players too) but mostly small fees, frees and loans. They have still brought in quality - like Dragusin who they bought for only £5m - but the emphasis is always on cost and value.

Since I am a boring nerd, I keep lists of possible replacements, to the extent anyone cares (many don't) and options include:

- Veiga of Basel
- Maloney of Heidenheim
- Charles of Saints
- Jashari of Luzern
- Barranechea of Juve (currently on loan at Frosinone)

These would cost more like £15m to about £20m. I suspect that's more the top end of what we'll pay for any player - with most signings (that aren't frees or loans) being more like £5m to £12m.

Robert #62, Agreed if the club can't find a way to refinance the debt, then those interest payments are going to need more short term funding... until there isn't any. Ultimately this will affect transfer funds.

The optimist part of me says if someone (777?) can refinance creatively to allow the recruitment team to rebuild; when the inevitable Onana sale goes through, with a good enough replacement, and with the successor central midfielder in a pathway plan too - more transfer funds should be available. I know it looks simple, but that's what good plans should look - simple and have a logical road map to achieving goals. At the moment, this paragraph seems impossible. Or is it? If the board + CEO during all this can get this far with the new stadium and all the different contractors, financial institutions and people involved from an idea (which I applaud as it looks fantastic), then a final push to refinance should in theory be doable as well.

Maybe we can't see it yet, as it needs a new owner with more assets before they can approach financial institutions to refinance? Not my area of knowledge, but it's crossed my mind.

Your are not a boring nerd Robert.

You obviously spend a lot of time researching football and potential talent that is out there.

I can't do that but I do keep and eye on things and the continental markets we should be looking at, but not to the details you go into. I respect your views, great insight.

Right now, Bournemouth away is the focus with the players we have.

Appreciate your comments and expertise Sam H (hope you're doing well behind and in front of the camera).

I made notes and will definitely train an eye on the fella over the weekend when I replay the game.

I did hear to be fair that he did well against Southgate's mid-table Premier League team Colin. I agree, there has to be something there for all this attention at the highest levels, but like a few others on here, some of it surprises me.

Anyway, I've made notes on David Garrick's wise words and will do my best to keep an open mind over the weekend.

Robert 37

That's an interesting list you have there. I'm not sure it proves your point. One by one:

Richarlison: I'm a fan of Richie and would have him back in a heartbeat at a fair price (not what we sold him for) but he has struggled to establish himself in a moderate Spurs side.

Sigurdsson: No one doubted that he was a handy Premier League player, the problem was he was not worth the massive ££££ we paid for him at the time and it was telling he never really cut it at Spurs, only Swansea.

Stones: The one conspicuous success, especially given what we bought and sold him for. But he was very prone to big mistakes at the age we had him, trying to play out of trouble. He gets away with this at City more because a) the other side barely see the ball and b) City have excellent players who always are there for an out ball.

Lukaku: Definitely effective at putting the ball in the back of the net but the rest of his game is seriously substandard, which is why he has not cut it at one of the 'big' clubs and has become a gun for hire.

Pickford: Having mostly ironed out his own calamities and got a bit better at coming for crosses, most have a positive view of him.

You can also throw in a few of our other high profile sales, like Barkley, Rodwell, even going back to Jeffers who basically failed (though it's good to see Ross trying to re-energise his failing career) I guess Digne has done okay, but he is not a nailed on first choice for Villa.

One might better argue a case for Gordon, who has kicked on but the last guy who left us and was an unqualified success at the highest level was probably Mikel Arteta.

If Onana matches him, I'd be astonished. I envisage a more Lukaku-style trajectory

Both Onana and Branthwaite will be sold this Summer. The Club’s dire financial position and the players’ ambitions make this inevitable.

With Ratcliffe at the helm, dealing with Man Utd won't be straightforward and any attempts by them to buy Branthwaite will be drawn out and tortuous.

He's not a fool like Woodward.

PF #16,

I consider him a very good passer, best in the Everton midfield by some distance. He's the only one who looks ahead first for a penetrating ball before going wide. He has no assists because none of the 4 perfect through balls he has played this season were converted.

He has an excellent first touch and doesn't lose the ball, a critical characteristic in a #6.

Defensively he's an excellent tackler, wins almost everything on the ground and in the air. In the box, he never loses position and never loses a header.

However, as others here have said, none of those talents are particularly valuable in a grinding club that cannot create goals or launch a sophisticated counterattack. His loping, rhythmic style and lack of attacking firepower -- he's not a goalscorer and never will be -- mean his contribution for Everton will remain limited.

He's a hot commodity on the world market because top teams see how his talent will fit in and become an essential supporting cog for them -- which he will never be for us.

And personally I love his commitment to the club and the supporters. I think he's a class act and a top young man.

And yeah, the pen sucked. Horrible.

That cover it?

Good work, Poster Gaynes. I am committed to focusing squarely on what you and Sam have smartly advised over the weekend. I of course take the point of him in our present predicament.

The point seems to be that he is not at his best in Dyche's world and that, at this moment, is not very comforting. I hate the very idea of someone needing to leave us to show what they are, but it's happened before.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, Mike.

Covers it for me Mike. You cover all the bases.

At 22 years of age, he will continue developing, especially with better players around him and get better.

Here and now, let's hope he is fist pumping at the Vitality this afternoon. One of the first over to the supporters along with Mykolenko, win lose or draw. I know it's a gesture, but it shows appreciation and I appreciate it as I will never leave a stadium until every one of them has left the pitch.

If Mike has covered it properly, then this will surely mean that Everton will be receiving a lot of massive bids for Onana in the summer if we go by the similar price that a few good midfielders went for last summer.

I would be very surprised to see any club outside of England going above £50 million but hopefully I'm wrong and Onana has impressed someone enough for them to want to pay a lot of money for him.

A lot will depend on the finances of whoever gets to purchase Everton and the plan they have got in place for our club.

Paul, Sam & Mike.

I think the level of external interest in Onana is sufficient to show how highly he is rated by others.

He wouldn’t be the first to leave and prosper in a different set up. Example: Neal Maupay looks decent at Brentford.

Onana does divide opinion in the same way many others have, stones, rodriguez, Lukaku, Barklay, delafaoe etc.

I get the feeling if we signed a young Joe Parkinson, Carsley or Kevin Langley they would be the dogs bollocks because they get stuck in and shout a lot.

No player is perfect, all of them have negatives.

Modern day footballers are coached at an early age to keep possession.

Onana does this very well. He plays low risk football. In a team with Roberto as manager and de bruyne as a midfield partner, Onana will win the ball and pass it to de bruyne.

In an Everton team Onana wins the ball and passes it to the 2 CBS or maybe the other midfielders who will pass it back.

If you want attacking guile and goal scoring you won't see it with Onana or anyone else in the team at present.

In our current situation he is one of the first names on the team sheet for me, I don't expect him to win games but I don't expect the opposition midfield to walk all over us either.

If we get more than we paid then he has been a success at the club regardless of ability.

Mike (69), “ That cover it”

Yes most definitely if you want an over hyped version of a player who does next to nothing for me and quite a few more Everton fans.

I'll lay money we sell Onana and Branthwaite in the summer, regardless of whether we stay up or not.

We haven't got a pot to piss in, and you can expect these sort of sales every year for several years at least, until we have our heads above water.

This may never happen at all, given the paucity of our financial situation.

Oh, and the reason top teams want Onana, is because he's a water-carrier. Barca need a new Busquets.

Busquets a water carrier?

You've got me shaking my head like Rigsby, offended by somebody asking who Tommy Lawton, was, there James!!!

James (76),

I think the reason the top teams want (?) Onana is because of his agent who thinks he is absolutely marvellous and there is no-one like him and gets these stories in the press about this and that club wanting him… his agent is his sister!

Forgot to mention, James, there is a hole in Onana's bucket.

Dave,

Agents have been parasites of football ever since they were allowed. All they have done is take money out of the game, and I see no benefits to any club.

You're right about Onana's sister being his agent, funny every time he goes away on International duty, more stories arise about clubs being in for him.

I think Anelka had his brother as his agent, they seem to cause more trouble than they're worth.

I read a while ago about an agent who was paid a fee by the buying club and the selling club for one of his players.

I also heard Simon Jordan talking about players signing on a free transfer, he said he dealt with an agent regarding a player on a free, and the agent wanted £6-£7M for setting up the deal and his client wanted £10M signing on fee. Some free signing but Jordan had the good sense to walk away from the deal.

Well, I've heard it all now, mentioning Onana in the same sentence as Busquets. I ask you….

Les # 81,
Onana is playing in a very poor team. He will thrive in a top class side. Look at Richarlison after he settled in at Spurs. To a lesser degree look at Gordon at Newcastle.
It's very difficult to flourish when you are playing with mediocre team mates in a very defense minded set up.
I wish I could say that we are a good team but it's not true- we are at the bottom of the table because we are bloody awful.

James (76),

The reason Onana is coveted by a lot of the top teams is because he slightly defies categorisation. His size and aerial ability differentiate him from a lot of other players, but he is a good footballer with decent vision and a good passing range.

In the right system, with better players around him, he could really excel – especially if he gets better at cutting off passing channels with those exceedingly long limbs of his.

Brian #80, was that the Cahill deal??

So a plus point to a modern-day midfielder is now that they play "low-risk football". Wow!

Does he score enough? No. Assist? No. Killer pass? Interceptions? Tries whipping the crowd up after doing fuck-all for the majority of the game? Yes, definitely.

Might go on and have a good career… but with us? No.

Well said Mathew. I had commented in the match preview to the effect that he looks the part until the whistle blows. He usually makes one good crossfield pass per match and everything else gets knocked five yards behind. I can't say I've seen one meaningful run with the ball since he's been here. If you don't do anything you don't make mistakes.

With all these high profile clubs supposedly in for Onana, can we get a billion quid for him and sort out all our problems in one hit?

I have listened to all the arguments for and against Onana on this thread and have concluded that both are perfectly reasonable so where does that leave us?

Exactly where we actually are. Make sense? Let me explain. We are up to our necks in the brown stuff at the moment what with one thing and another and have been so since Kenwright arrived and departed. Moshiri hasn't changed anything (except maybe making some things worse) but hopefully he is going to exit stage left in the not too distant future.

We then have to stop feeling sorry for ourselves and get on with making our club a proper Premier League outfit again. That means such things as not paying silly money for players or giving them silly wages or contracts but it also means that no player is immune from being sold if a good price is offered (Onana et al). Obviously it isn't quite that simple but that is the bare bones of it and where we must start. Our initial objective is stability and when we have achieved that we can start thinking and doing what is necessary to improve our position both as a far as our league position is concerned and bringing in 'better' players through transfers.

The fans (us) even with the promised enhanced role being spoken about in the new legislation are not really going to have a proper role to play in that so let us hope that those in charge of the club take heed or else we will end up back where we are today in no time at all.

I think years and years of shite has blinded us to what a good player is

The general standard of players has gone down but if you'd pay 60m+ for onana then more fool you. Our players do not give value for money and most people who say what they see, believe he is shite

What I can't understand is everyone's desire to see something that doesn't exist and call it potential.

What your saying is that he had the attributes to be a top player, which I find a bit racist to be honest.

We need a player for now, not to let a 33m player learn his effing trade.i like him as a person but that's not enough

Heard Calvert lewin is due a new contract - doesnt that mean a spike in form? Not at Everton.

We are shit, our club is run like shit, we are shit fans, and our manager and players are all shit.

All of us can frankly fuck off.

Another waste of space, more overrated shite from our Scouts...

Sell now and start looking at lower league British players (Ideally), like the lad Palmer at Coventry (ideal replacement).