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Leaving it Late?

by   |   04/07/2014  Comments (105)  jump

We're into July now and we've made new no signings. That lot across the park have already signed three players. Anyone else getting slightly concerned?

Also, we've not even announced our pre-season fixtures yet apart from Ossie's testimonial and the game against Tranmere Rovers. Getting a bit late now isn't it?

Is this all as a result of the World Cup? Surely pre-season fixtures should have been scheduled by now?

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Reader Comments (105)

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Jay Harris
1 Posted 04/07/2014 at 14:25:46
What really worries me, Ray, is that we havenÂ’t even nailed Gareth Barry yet and, with Roberto Martinez away at the World Cup, Elstone is enjoying the freedom of his Kingdom counting his pennies.

We have lost Lukaku, Barry and Deulofeu from last seasonÂ’s squad and have the challenge of the Europa League coming up next season and havenÂ’t been seriously linked with anyone decent so far.

The "Everton" way is not very good on the nerves and is certainly not conducive to attracting top quality players.

Jim Potter
2 Posted 04/07/2014 at 14:32:17
Ray, IÂ’d say late starters need a good finisher.

I have to say IÂ’m beginning to get edgy as I see quite a few clubs already making significant signings and we are left with jack (and I donÂ’t mean Rodwell).

The RS already have 3 – and soon will have an additional 㿲 – 80 million off Barça for Tetanus Teeth. No matter who they sign though, if Ratboy goes, theyÂ’ll be half the threat they were last season. He was their talisman, always chomping at the bit (or doing a bit of chomping).

We need a world-class striker (the injury-proof kind hopefully) – and (to me) we should pay whatever it takes. Break the bank... break into a bank – just get us a goal scorer!

Bobby looks like he is willing to bring some of the youngsters through, and given our quest for European glory, weÂ’ll need them if weÂ’re to maintain top four aspirations and have decent cup runs.

The Coleman extension is great news; now get McCarthy, Barkley and Stones tied down also. I think Barry should be offered 2 years at max as (in a different way to Suarez) he’s a bit long in the tooth. I’m pleased that Hibbo got an extension – Everton through and through, and whatever his limitations they are not loyalty, application or hard work.

Throw in 4, 5 or 6 sensibly priced reinforcements / free transfers on top of what we have – and I’ll be cautiously optimistic for a trophy this coming year. The core is already in place, we just need some Bobby transfer magic.

But please letÂ’s start soon ... I donÂ’t want this to go down to the final minutes, of the final hour, of the final day.... yet again.

"Dear Santa,

I know it’s a bit early but..."

Kevin Tully
3 Posted 04/07/2014 at 14:25:07
I am not getting worked up yet, Ray. We need a big name striker first and foremost, and if we were to unveil a Lukaku or Bony, that would leave us needing a couple reinforcements for midfield (We may even have Barry wrapped up in the next few days.)

If we start on the 16th of August with what we have, I may then throw the toys out of the pram. Ideally we would want the big signings in for the start of August, but no need to panic yet.

As for pre-season, I canÂ’t imagine many look forward to those long tours abroad, so a few light warm up games will see us starting the season fresh and raring to go.

Paste this link on your desktop if you want to get really wound up! It lists every new signing team by team in the Premier League:

Link

Gavin Ramejkis
4 Posted 04/07/2014 at 14:46:44
Hi Kevin, interesting seeing that list, Villa have bought some right shite, and seeing Liverhampton after the shite they gave us when Bobby came is amusing, no real stars amongst the bottom feeders like us yet.
Mike Gwyer
5 Posted 04/07/2014 at 14:34:43

Ray.

This is Everton, so seriously you are going to have to chill.

Top – and I mean top of the list – is the fact that we need a striker, a 20-goal-a-season striker, a striker similar to the one that put Belgium 2-0 up against the USA. That for me is the man RM wants and I would say that Everton are very close to getting him.

Obviously Everton's transfer plan will be totally fucked up if he manages to hit the winner against Argentina and then play another blinder in the semis – but, as it stands, I would say we are in with a serious shout of getting Lukaku.

If the above doesn't happen, then I've a feeling we will hit Swansea for Bony; if that fails, then fuck knows... but I'm sure one of the above transfers will come true.

Mark Murphy
6 Posted 04/07/2014 at 14:59:32
I'm confident that, with Roberto pulling the strings, we'll strengthen before the season starts.

I'm more relaxed this season than before and putting the delay down to the World Cup.

A striker and a midfielder, both of high quality, will come in soon. I can feel it.

Ken Buckley
7 Posted 04/07/2014 at 15:07:07
Outside of Lukaku, who I think is a serious target, and Barry, who is a nice-to-have addition, I think most of our business will be within the loan market and that could take till deadline day to complete.

I suppose watching nothing happening can get scary but donÂ’t fret too much because, as a football club, we are consistent at it with the phrase Â’We go with what we have gotÂ’ being heard after most windows.

UP THE BLUES

Darryl Ritchie
8 Posted 04/07/2014 at 15:18:46
RM has said many times, that nothing would happen until the the finish of the World Cup. Have some patience!
Ray Robinson
9 Posted 04/07/2014 at 15:22:13
IÂ’m not as concerned under Roberto as I would have been under Moyes regarding signings, though I do see the advantages of doing things early. We had a great season after Lescott, Johnson and Howard were acquired early on in the window, and remember that last season we dropped crucial points in the first three games before McCarthy, Barry, Lukaku and Deulofeu arrived and had time to gel.

But, not announcing any serious pre-season fixtures yet – even allowing for the World Cup – what the hell is all that about?

Steve Sweeney
10 Posted 04/07/2014 at 15:23:42
I would like us to take back Rodwell on a free, snap Tom Cleverley who had the best form of his career under Bobby at Wigan, and who knows maybe Oviedo Baby is telling some of his Costa Rican mates what a great club Everton is.

I also expect a few surprises and hopefully a big One.

COYB Boys

Eric Myles
11 Posted 04/07/2014 at 15:39:39
Ray, we've also got a pre-season game in Bangkok.
Andrew Ellams
12 Posted 04/07/2014 at 15:40:24
When does pre-season training start? Isn’t it usually 1st July?
Mike Allison
13 Posted 04/07/2014 at 15:36:04
ItÂ’s okay, Tony Hibbert has signed a new contract.

Jay #1, it doesnÂ’t matter who weÂ’ve been linked with, as 90-95% of it is nonsense, but some of them do seem quite decent as it happens.

We need six new players, four of them direct replacements for the four we had on loan last season, along with a central midfielder (or possibly two) and a ’right-sided Oviedo’ if you get my drift – Seamus will either have to play every minute or we’ll be weakening every time we rotate the squad as it stands now.

Two or three of those replacements may well be the same people, Barry, Traoré and maybe Lukaku, so those deals don’t need to be hurried, and in Lukaku’s, can’t be. Martinez has even joked about wanting certain players to have a bad World Cup so the price goes down. If it was Ham-ez Rodriguez he was after, then no chance.

IÂ’d say three in by the end of July, not the start, will be okay. I certainly wonÂ’t be panicking. Deadline day seems to be inevitable for the way weÂ’re going to be doing business, as any bid we make now for sought after players will just be stalled in the hope that someone else bids against us.

The pre-season was delayed so that we could work out how to arrange it in relation to the Europa League, but that doesnÂ’t seem to matter now. Does anyone know what other clubs have arranged so far?

Scott Hamilton
14 Posted 04/07/2014 at 15:49:16
Any Benni McCarthy rumours yet or are we a few months too early?
Peter Barry
15 Posted 04/07/2014 at 15:56:13
It's the Everton way under Billy Liar. We fanny around all the close season then make a couple of panic loans in the last couple of days when the TV money comes in... and, all the while, Billy Liar is working 9 to 5, 24/7, and 365 days a year to make everything work.
Brian Baker
16 Posted 04/07/2014 at 16:02:18
If we can keep Pienaar and Gibson fit, then our midfield will be good enough without Barry. We will also have Brian Oviedo back who can play wide midfield.

We just need a striker who can score 20+ goals.

Andrew Ellams
17 Posted 04/07/2014 at 16:11:28
We need Barry plus one central midfield, a striker and two wide players. IÂ’m not convinced McGeady is good enough to start on a regular basis and Mirallas needs to know there is at least serious competition for his place.
Paul Andrews
18 Posted 04/07/2014 at 16:14:33
Easy, lads, easy.

We are panicking a little early.

Scott Hamilton
19 Posted 04/07/2014 at 16:18:59
Peter, is Billy Liar meant to still be funny? Maybe you should use it a few more times because it doesn't get boring and continues to amuse...
Linda Morrison
20 Posted 04/07/2014 at 16:24:07
IÂ’m not worried as, apart from a few clubs, itÂ’s quiet everywhere probably due to the World Cup.

Lukaku is the key as, until Roberto knows what is going to happen to him, nothing else will fall into place. I know he is expensive, and I know he will probably go elsewhere... but I think he would make a great addition to our young team.

Strikers are always difficult to source whatever the club unless you can sign a blank cheque. Once we have the striker, others will follow. I fully expect most of EvertonÂ’s main signings to be completed by the end of July.

As for Barry, if he wanted to stay at the club, I am sure he would have let the manager know.

Mark Tanton
21 Posted 04/07/2014 at 16:25:41
Unfortunately we all know the all-too-predictable way this summer will pan out — we'd be idiots not start getting concerned now because we've had so much shit before. Every summer, the club seemingly makes life needlessly harder for itself. Last-minute Bill clearly favours this way as a business model and believes that he gets the best deals for the club. Either that or incompetence reigns.
Paul Andrews
22 Posted 04/07/2014 at 16:35:04
Scott,

Unfortunately there is nothing amusing about the blatant lies our chairman repeatedly loads onto the fans.

What is amusing, however, is the few fans who continue to believe him.

Patrick Murphy
23 Posted 04/07/2014 at 16:35:45
92-93 Sherringham - 22 Ferdinand - 20
93-94 Cole - 34 Shearer - 31 Le Tissier - 25 Sutton - 25 Wright - 23
Beardsley - 21
94-95 Shearer - 34 Fowler - 25 Ferdinand - 24 Collymore - 22 Cole - 21 Klinsmann - 21
95-96 Shearer - 31.Fowler - 28.Ferdinand - 25
96-97 Shearer - 25. Wright - 23
97-98 Top scorer 18
98-99 Top Scorer 18
99-00 Philips - 30, Shearer - 23, Yorke - 22
00-01 Hasselbaink - 23
01-02 Henry - 24, Hasselbaink - 23, Van Nistelrooy - 23, Shearer - 23
02-03 Van Nistelrooy - 25, Henry - 24, Beattie - 23, Viduka - 20
03-04 Henry - 30, Shearer - 20, Saha - 20 , Nistelrooy - 20
04-05 Henry - 25, Johnson -21
05-06 Henry - 27, Nistlerooy - 21
06-07 Drogba - 20
07-08 Ronaldo - 31, Torres - 24, Adebayor - 24
08-09 Top Scorer - 19
09-10 Drogba - 29, Rooney - 27, Bent - 24, Tevez - 23, Lampard - 22
10-11 Berbatov - 20, Tevez - 20
11-12 Van Persie - 30, Rooney - 27, Aguero - 23
12-13 Van Persie - 26, Suarez - 23, Bale - 21
13-14 Suarez - 31, Sturridge - 21, Toure - 20

I'm afraid these 20+ goal strikers are probably out of Everton FC's price range! Although we have had some of those on our books – Beattie, Johnson, Beardsley and Saha – unfortunately not when they were at their most prolific.

Patrick Murphy
24 Posted 04/07/2014 at 16:58:34
Oh and of course Wayne Rooney – who should have stayed a bit longer to get 20 goals!
Micky Norman
25 Posted 04/07/2014 at 17:37:20
If you go out shopping with limited cash, you buy the big items first, then see what you've got left for the other bits you need. The shop hasn't opened for our big item yet so what's the panic for?
Mike Oates
26 Posted 04/07/2014 at 17:49:50
Martinez is desperate to get Lukaku that I think he will spend almost all of his kitty on this one player. Until that point of decision passes, I think he'll not commit any monies to anyone else. If Lukaku goes elsewhere then I suspect he will have back ups in mind , Bony, etc he 'll go for but will have to pay over the odds for. I'm surprised we have not yet got our loanees set up ready for pre-season start next week.

Until the World Cup finishes then I don't see any major money moves, which personally worries me as all and sundry will be chasing around for the players who want to move. If Belgium get to the final, then Lukaku's future won't be resolved until about July 20-25 by which time we will be travelling around in pre-season with only a limited number of players in pre-season. Didn't this happen a few years ago with Moyes in USA?

Ray Robinson
27 Posted 04/07/2014 at 18:02:11
I'm not surprised that we haven't made any marquee signings yet and I certainly understand why Martinez may be holding back until the Lukaku situation is resolved. However, in view of the need to boost numbers for the Europa League campaign, I would have expected some lower key signings by now – much like the first wave of signings last season, ie, Robles, Alcaraz, and Koné.
Jon Withey
28 Posted 04/07/2014 at 18:18:20
I'd expect the manager would prefer to be part of negotiations on significant targets – maybe all of them knowing his personal touch. If he's not around...

I'm not too worried but I don't think we'll get Lukaku unless no Champions League team goes for him.

Brian Bleck
29 Posted 04/07/2014 at 18:59:11
I saw a rumor on ESPN FC about Balotelli to Arsenal in the 㾶M range. That seems low, but got me wondering what the relative prices would need to be for Balotelli to be a better option than Lukaku?
Bill Gall
30 Posted 04/07/2014 at 19:05:43
With only six weeks to go before the first game against Leicester and usually with the training camp and a number of friendlies, it takes about 3-4 weeks to get the players in shape and up to match fitness. Surely it is more beneficial to bring in new players as soon as possible to get used to the manager's style and become familiar with the other players on staff.
With only one player from the Everton squad left in the World Cup, I think the manager should be back at Finch Farm starting to negotiate for players he wants plus checking on the condition of the returning players. I am not surprised at the lack of any incoming players at this time as, being a realist, I do not trust our chairman and his merry band to back up the manager until they feel it is right to release funds.
Gavin Ramejkis
32 Posted 04/07/2014 at 19:39:44
Hey Scott how about Agent Kenshite or Billy Bullshitter or Bill Jong Ill, feeling any less delicate?
Kunal Desai
33 Posted 04/07/2014 at 19:45:25
Only twice (if my memory serves me right) 2005 when we qualified for CL and 2006 – Johnson, Lescott and Howard have we purchased a number of first-teamers before the season has got under way. The paupers have wait until the bargains begin. It's like shopping at next on Boxing Day. Unfortunately, until this shitty board are hounded out, nothing will change and the recruitment policy will remain that way.
Mark Taylor
34 Posted 04/07/2014 at 20:04:19
I don't especially want Lukaku, I think he has shown nothing like enough to be worth it, especially as he clearly would sooner play somewhere else.

Unfortunately, I also think this article is about 7 weeks premature. We do our business late, partly to see if there is any seriously big offer for one of our marquee players, but most importantly, and listen up those with short memories, because it allows Kenwright the space to say, oh, we tried to get some big deals, but ran out of time, but Roberto will have all the money we've raised in the next window.

By now, I could get to the moon, by walking along Kenwright's nose...

Tom P Owen
35 Posted 04/07/2014 at 20:05:49
Not quite sure why the lack of pre-season games. The common excuse was that we did not know what European competition we would be playing in which held up the decision process. But Arsenal and Spurs seem to have sorted themselves out with pre-season friendlies.

I imagine the club will probably go to a training camp somewhere and play a local side before coming back to take on Tranmere. ThereÂ’s a free weekend in between OssieÂ’s testimonial and the start of the season so the club might fit in one or two games there. But it is a bit unusual because normally everything is announced by now.

To be honest, I did think we would have Barry signed by now, but I think why he hasnÂ’t is down to the payments that we have to make to Manchester City. I imagine that Roberto would like to think Barry and Traore will be signed before pre-season starts. We can only wait and see.

The future of Lukaku will probably rumble on for a while. ItÂ’s clear that itÂ’s RobertoÂ’s number one target, hence why he hasnÂ’t moved for any other striker. Chelsea wonÂ’t want to let him go for 25 million less, so Everton will have to do a lot of negotiating to get the price down I imagine. If I can remember correctly, Roberto did say that he was prepared to wait to get his desired his targets. So I am not too worried on that one. If we donÂ’t manage to get Lukaku, IÂ’m sure Roberto will have other targets in mind, and weÂ’ll trust him on his judgement.

It is annoying not seeing the club bring in players early, especially when others are, but thereÂ’s a lot of factors to take in and I think we are going to have to be patient. But all being well, things will start rolling now that World Cup is coming to an end.

Me personally, I hope we can bring in Lukaku and I like the look of Perisic from Croatia too. Hopefully Barcelona could lend us one of their up and coming stars again, or you never know, they might give us Deulofeu back for another year with the transfer of Luiz Suarez.

Dick Brady
36 Posted 04/07/2014 at 21:00:38
What worries me isnÂ’t that we have so far failed to sign anybody, its more that so far we are four players down. Lukaku, Barry, Defoleou and Traore have left the club and thatÂ’s four new players required just to get back to where we started.

So just to recap thatÂ’s four new players required just to get back to square one. Then you need new players on top of those four to strengthen.

Patrick Murphy
37 Posted 04/07/2014 at 21:04:38
It's a disgrace not having signed somebody, anybody, while others are splashing the cash left right and centre. How can we possibly have the players in the right condition and the right frame of mind for the most serious game of the season to be played in late September?

Roberto out! Kenwright out! Elstone out! If they don't appreciate that only two games are important to the fans and that we cannot afford for another debacle like we have endured for the last 50 years, then they shouldn't be at the club – Find a buyer BK!!

[TIC, obviously...]

Phil Sammon
38 Posted 04/07/2014 at 21:09:01
Transfer window has been open 4 days, Dick.
Raymond Fox
39 Posted 04/07/2014 at 20:38:55
No need to panic, do you seriously think anyone as organised as our manager obviously is, won't have everything thought out! The training schedule, the friendlies, the transfer targets, and don't forget he has Graeme Jones and others well capable of carrying on with their roles at the club.

As per usual, we won't have fortunes to throw around, so it will be difficult to tempt any star players to play for us. Also, it must be a nightmare trying to negotiate with agents etc and be able to nail them down in good time.

Realistically it will be a case of make do and mend as usual I fear, but I don't think we will be scratching about too much though, because him and the team created a really good impression last season, which is bound to be a plus when it comes to signing up players on loan or permanent.

Ray Robinson
40 Posted 04/07/2014 at 21:49:49
Phil #38, are you sure? Didn't stop the RS signing Lambert and Lallana did it?

Re, the friendlies, can you imagine Roberto arriving back next a week on Sunday ringing, for example, Wolfsburg or Porto on the Monday asking, "Fancy a game a week on Wednesday?" Surely the friendlies have been arranged but not announced? If so, why not?

Re signings, surely there must be some in the pipeline? As a previous poster stated, we're about 4 down on last year's personnel with loanees leaving. That means we have about 8 - 10 players to sign yet. Somehow, I don't think even Roberto could surpass last year's deadline day harvest?

I know that 1 July was a significant date in terms of players' contracts, there's a World Cup on and the draw for the Europa League hasn't been made yet, but something doesn't smell right!

Bill Gall
41 Posted 04/07/2014 at 22:41:49
Ray
What doesn,t smell right is the mold from Bullshit Bills wallet .
Ant Dwyer
43 Posted 04/07/2014 at 23:45:33
IÂ’m worried we will play our normal hand of starting the season without our signings in place. We will wait til the last minute to try and drag a few saviours through the door. Worrying as usual but letÂ’s be honest, did we expect anything different?
John Zapa
44 Posted 05/07/2014 at 00:33:45
Relax, everyone; the club’s transfer strategy is as follows:

Step 1 (July): Look for free agents and search the relegated teams & lower league teams for potential signings.
Step 2 (until the day before the window closes): Wait until the big clubs finish their signings.
Step 3 (the last hours of the transfer window): wait until late in the transfer window to approach those same clubs to see who is surplus to their requirements and sign/loan accordingly.

Nothing to worry about, it’s a well thought-out strategy where nothing can possibly go wrong, especially with the geniuses running the club.

Dick Fearon
45 Posted 05/07/2014 at 02:20:30
Correct me if I am wrong but was it rumoured that to progress a new stadium we needed 㿊mil cash, or was it merely co-incidence such rumours seem to surface during season ticket promotions only to disappear into the mists of time.
Darren Hind
46 Posted 05/07/2014 at 06:41:00
Relax guys. The Emperor will be back soon... ish.

Now I know some fools (me) may think his time and undoubted charm, would be better spent here, trying to persuade the talented and the undecided that their future lies with Everton Football Club... He"ll have earned a fortune and will probably be wearing some boss new clothes for us to talk about.

Mike Oates
47 Posted 05/07/2014 at 08:39:27
I suspect that Roberto wanted to enter the prestigous USA pre-season tournament as of last year but unfortunately they went with the big boys – Man City and I think Arsenal this year instead of us – and it left us high and dry. Hence Thailand and Tranmere
Wayne Smyth
48 Posted 05/07/2014 at 08:45:16
I think Roberto did say a few weeks back that our transfer window would go right to the wire. Why are people surprised given the window has only been open a short period?

Which players have signed for other clubs that we would like and that we have a reasonable chance of attracting? Gauld perhaps? I can't think of many. Most of the signings have been marquee buys by the rich clubs.

I'd like to see us compete for the likes of Tom Ince, cheap young english talent with potential to improve, but he hasn't joined Hull yet. Banega would also give us a bit more craft. I'd be shocked if we didn't end up with two permanent transfers in that mould.

I reckon that many of the players we've been linked with, Roberto is not actually interested in signing. The ones that have signed for other clubs that we "missed out on" he could also not be interested in.

Our manager is intelligent, creative and meticulous and importantly he has not shown any indication that he is unhappy with the way things are at the club (ie, issues with BK/money etc). Best to watch him do his job and I suspect we'll be surprised at the outcome.

Sam Hoare
50 Posted 05/07/2014 at 11:03:35
All I hope is that we get at least 3-4 players in quite soon so they benefit from a proper pre season. Then inevitably there will be a few more as loans get sorted on transfer deadline day. Before then and in time to start the season well I would like:

1 striker
2 central midfielders
1 winger

LetÂ’s say:

Remy
Barry
Banega
Perisic

Get that lot in the next few weeks and then another 3 or 4 on deadline day. Easy right!

Paul Tran
51 Posted 05/07/2014 at 12:08:10
Let's go through it again for the umpteenth time.

It has been repeatedly stated that we'll be doing business after the World Cup – I believe it's still going on. So what's the problem?

Liverpool have 'splashed the cash' on an over-rated, over-priced Lallana, an older squad back up striker (Lambert) and someone I'm unfamiliar with (Can).

I'm sure that our manager has some of this new-fangled technology and is able to speak to players/agents/clubs, without needing to be sitting in an office in Finch Farm.

If we'd bought players 'similar to Alcaraz, Kone and Robles', the usual suspects would be on here venting their spleen.

If we're running around for players once the season's started, I'll be hopping mad.

Looks to me like some people are desperate for another Martinez gush/slag-off- fest and don't have any ammunition.

I can't wait till we start buying players – it'll all go off on here again!

David Williams
52 Posted 05/07/2014 at 12:17:02
Same old same old. The smokescreen of the World Cup to use as an excuse to dither in the transfer market. Business will done as usual in the last minutes of the transfer window and the same excuses will be dished out when we miss out on targets. ItÂ’s the Everton way unfortunately.
Brian Williams
53 Posted 05/07/2014 at 13:33:37
Couldn't agree more with Paul. I've said myself a couple of weeks ago (when some were already whingeing about no signings) "grow a pair" and wait until there's something to be edgy about FFS.
Darren Hind
54 Posted 05/07/2014 at 13:54:29
"If were runnng around for players once the season has started, I'll be hoping mad " ... There's an "if" involved???

It seems the excuse factory is already running to full capacity – even though our manager clearly isn't.

Nobody is asking for Martinez to be working miracles, but we are entitled to expect him to be working for Everton. The suggestion that he is giving our club his undivided attention because he is still able to communicate with other parts of the world is laughable.

Our board either can't or won't pay the going rate for talent. Martinez is going to have to rely heavily on his charm and powers of persuasion. How can he do that to the best of his ability, if he's giving so much of his time to a TV company?

There are no 'if''s ... This transfer window is narrow enough for the less wealthy clubs and by taking his eye off the ball for a couple of weeks, Martinez narrows it still further.

Everton running around, trying to sign players once the 2014-15 season has started. isn't something that might happen. It's something that will most definitely happen.

It's not about "growing a pair"... well, actually, it is. Rather than offer meek excuses, shouldn't we be demanding that our manager prioritises the job for which our club is paying him north of ٠M a year to do?

Call me old fashioned, but isn't that the very least we should expect?

Paul Andrews
55 Posted 05/07/2014 at 15:31:02
Paul,51.

Spot on, I could not agree more with your points.
Pour yourself a cold one.

Ray Robinson
56 Posted 05/07/2014 at 15:59:42
Paul #51, your opinion on the players that Liverpool have bought is exactly that – an opinion. Mine is that they have invested wisely and are likely to continue to do so over the next few days / weeks.

Nobody, as far as I have read on this thread, is really overly panicking or complaining – a few are just querying the wisdom of leaving business until the latter stages of the window. Yes, the majority of the business may well be conducted after the World Cup but I’ll bet we’re not going to just purchase players who have featured in the World Cup.

If Martinez can conjure up another few gems on deadline day like last year – and that’s a big "if", great, but we will again be starting the season 2 or 3 games in without all the required players being available. The lack of Lukaku, Barry and Deulofeu at the start of last season probably cost us 4 to 6 points in the opening three games – and think how that might have changed our season at the death.

Pre-season starts soon and weÂ’re still about 4-6 players down on where we should be. ThatÂ’s not necessarily panicking - just stating an obvious fact. It doesnÂ’t make sense to me that we havenÂ’t brought in at least a few squad players.

Denis Richardson
57 Posted 05/07/2014 at 16:06:54
As has probably been mentioned above (sorry no time to read all the posts), the transfer window has only been open for 5 days......we still have almost 2 months left!

No major signings (if any) will happen before the end of the World Cup so a bit of perspective and patience is needed.... if we havenÂ’t signed any new players by the start of August, then the moaning can start!

Personally, if we only get the Barry deal done in July, thatÂ’ll do me (assuming more players will arrive in August).

On another note, anyone have any news on the Kone, Gibson or Oviedo injuries? Would have thought they should all be recovered by now. (Like three new signings.... literally.)

Ray Robinson
58 Posted 05/07/2014 at 16:12:18
Denis, the window may well only have re-opened on 1 July but that doesn't stop teams agreeing to sell / buy players up before then - they just can't register them until 1 July. Although we've got until 31 August to conclude deals, do you seriously think that waiting until the end if the window is a good strategy?
Brian Williams
59 Posted 05/07/2014 at 16:14:20
Darren, we can demand whatever we want but it basically won't change a thing really will it?

Maybe we just look at thing in different ways.

Myself I think that Martinez is not going to want to "bomb" after a better first season than even the most optimistic of Evertonians would have hoped for. I also think that he very much appears to know what he's doing. With that in mind, I'm prepared to wait and see what he has planned.

Don't get me wrong; the fact that I'm not concerned or showing a certain restlessness doesn't mean I care any less than the supporter who is up in arms already. I just trust Roberto to know what he's doing.

Sam Hoare
60 Posted 05/07/2014 at 16:20:27
Sort of feel that people saying things like 'grow a pair' on a supporters chat forum should be slapped with a dead haddock.

There is not a lot of panicking or even that much moaning on this thread just a well placed concern that we may not be able to afford to wait till the last minute and start the first few games short of numbers like last season.

Denis Richardson
61 Posted 05/07/2014 at 16:29:00
Ray – the vast majority of teams have not made any signings yet so think people are going over the top complaining at the start of July that we haven't.

There is also the World Cup to consider...

Ray Robinson
62 Posted 05/07/2014 at 16:30:18
Denis, the World Cup hasn't stopped Brendan Rogers though has it?
Paul Andrews
63 Posted 05/07/2014 at 16:36:39
Ray,

Lallana and Lambert have come home from the World Cup. The other signing wasn't at the World Cu.p

Paul Andrews
64 Posted 05/07/2014 at 16:37:45
Sam,

The other beauty is "man up"

Ray Robinson
65 Posted 05/07/2014 at 17:04:53
I know Paul, but we won't only be signing players who are / have been in the World Cup.

I'd love to think we're holding out exclusively for a few Brazilians, Germans, Argentinians, Dutch and Belgians!

Paul Andrews
66 Posted 05/07/2014 at 17:50:25
I agree, Ray.

I would like to think Roberto will have a list of players he wants. One signing could have a bearing on who another signing is, and where they will play in our system.

We have just got shut of a manager who made signings with no idea of how they would fit in.

Sam Hoare
67 Posted 05/07/2014 at 19:14:57
Paul, of all Moyes's faults, transfer signings weren't one I them. He signed some absolute gems for a pittance and not that many disasters considering how long he was here. He managed to make money for the club whilst also improving the quality of the squad.

Signing the likes of Baines, Coleman, Stones, Mirallas, Distin, Jagielka, Naismith and Gibson for around 㿅M is pretty good work.

Paul Melarange
68 Posted 05/07/2014 at 19:47:38
Typical Everton regarding transfers... although, when Oviedo and Kone are fit, that will be like signing two new players. (I got that cliche in before the local press did!)

Hopefully Barry will sign as soon as Roberto gets back from Brazil and then expect lots of last-minute activity plus loan deals.

I canÂ’t see our board giving us that much to spend regardless of more TV money than ever, kit deal, Chang deal, record season ticket sales and any incoming transfer fees we have left over!

Gavin McGarvey
69 Posted 05/07/2014 at 19:51:32
I think resigning Barry is important, as is the Lukaku deal (if it can be done). Not sure why the Barry deal hasnÂ’t been done yet, and am a bit concerned to be honest. ItÂ’s obvious why Lukaku hasnÂ’t been signed yet, and you would imagine trickier, but whatÂ’s stopping the Barry deal?

IÂ’m concerned as I think losing him may set us back a bit. Suggesting Pienaar and Gibson step in is unrealistic in my opinion. Pienaar is a different type of player, and although Gibson is more suited to the centre, I would have thought he would benefit to playing in the centre with Barry and McCarthy putting in the hard work. As it is, I wouldnÂ’t want my mortgage to be on Gibson being fully fit half way through the season.

As for getting signings in early, well it would be nice but does anyone think it would happen, no matter who the manager was? Some people think it was MoyesÂ’s policy but letÂ’s be honest, itÂ’s finance. Everyone knows weÂ’re next to skint and thereÂ’ll nearly always be other wealthier clubs looking at the same players weÂ’re interested in. ItÂ’s not in their interests to sell to us early and cheap. TheyÂ’ll be hanging on for more cash and weÂ’ll be nipping in at the last minute when the timeÂ’s right. If not then weÂ’ll be left grumbling on here at the end of the transfer window. Who knows a few people might even blame RM despite the evidence of the last 15 years.

Paul Ferry
70 Posted 06/07/2014 at 03:29:03
Paul Tran - 51 - brill post mate, spot on in all departments, you put the angst folks in their place but without bile or aggression. Lovely post.
Eric Myles
71 Posted 06/07/2014 at 07:18:04
Gavin #69, are you suggesting that the last 15 years transfer sagas were not the fault of "Dithering Dave"?
Eric Myles
72 Posted 06/07/2014 at 07:27:00
Ray #65, I hope Roberto hasn't been holding out exclusively to sign Neymar, he'll be slaughtered again for signing another injured player.
Karl Graham
73 Posted 06/07/2014 at 08:05:26
We need a Central Midfielder and a Striker for the first team (hopefully Barry and Lukaku); then we need another three or four to fill out the squad. Providing most the squad weÂ’ve got report fit for pre-season training, I will happily wait til Deadline Day for the squad players as itÂ’s only one game a week up until mid September. However, we need the two first team players in ASAP.

The four squad players would be another Centre Midfielder probably either Cleverly or Rodwell. A backup Striker and two Wingers. Defense is pretty much covered: two Right Backs, two Left Backs, four Centre Backs and Duffy, Garbutt and Browning.

I would use pre-season to assess Junior – if he’s good enough, we don’t need the other Centre Midfielder; if he isn’t, he should follow Vellios and Gueye out the door.

We leave it late to save wages so, although itÂ’s not ideal getting players in on Deadline Day, if they are only squad players, it does make financial sense. If we are announcing the signings of Barry and Lukaku before 1 August, I will be happy.

Eric Myles
74 Posted 06/07/2014 at 09:27:01
Karl #73, I can see the 4 'additional' squad players being the 4 we didn't have available the majority of last season, Gibson, Kone, Traore, Alcaraz & Oviedo, with perhaps a couple more loanees.

Which of course doesn't take account of the players we're losing.

Christopher Timmins
75 Posted 06/07/2014 at 10:03:32
Assuming all of last yearÂ’s long-term absentees report back fit for duty, that no-one else leaves and Kone is signed up on a year-long loan deal, then the only other "must do" business is the signing of Barry and a centre-forward before the kick off in August.

I donÂ’t think the World Cup has made any difference to our chances of signing any potential players or to the prices that we might have to pay. Indeed, LukakuÂ’s value may have slightly fallen; if we are purchasing him, then Roberto has some work to do to make him the finished article!

Nick Wall
76 Posted 06/07/2014 at 10:25:45
Remember the things that Martinez has said. Remember that he's pledged his intent to bring in six players, and to end every window stronger than when we entered it. Then make your judgements on Martinez and Kenwright at the end of the window. Don't try to judge them now – it's pointless.
Steve Jones
77 Posted 06/07/2014 at 10:29:30
Lads, we are looking for talent that will improve us from the level we are at... which is near-Champions League. That quality will always attract lots of interest so many players we go for will have other offers to consider. If we can spend over the odds like the lovable neighbours, itÂ’s easy to throw in more cash til the deal is done... we canÂ’t, though... we need to make the pot stretch.

That means we have to wait for some deals... possibly until right up against deadline day when clubs are suddenly motivated differently as they look at missing out on their targets through a potential non-sale of a lucrative asset.

IÂ’d like to see movement on some of the cheaper targets... Brahimi from Granada was touted at the ١M mark originally and was looking for a move. Barry obviously... but, for the most part, IÂ’m expecting much of what weÂ’ll do will be late on in the window. IÂ’m happy with that if it means we get the players the manager wants.

Pablo Connelly
78 Posted 06/07/2014 at 10:39:06
Martinez has already alluded to the loan market being his main strategy. I have no problem with that providing he continues to get young hungry players with a point to prove as quality experienced players available on loan are few and far between (Barry being one of the few exceptions).

That being the case, I think some people have accept the the best loans become available late in the day because clubs are willing to accept no-one is gonna meet their valuation of a player and agree to loans to reduce the wage bill. However, I still think we have a 㾻M to 㿀M budget with which I expect to make one or two signings maximum before pre-season. The other three or four loans will inevitably come really late in the day, I think one or two on here need to understand that before they give themselves an ulcer!

Robbie Muldoon
79 Posted 06/07/2014 at 11:20:15
"We've made new no signings. That lot across the park have already signed three players."

Yes, but no amount of signings will make up for the loss that is Luis Suarez, so how exactly have the Red Shite strengthened?

Relax, Roberto's got it.

John Schrempft
80 Posted 06/07/2014 at 13:41:33
Can't say I'm too concerned just yet. The expression "Marry in haste; repent at leisure" comes to mind.

Apart from that, I'm sure Roberto has people lined up; he didn't do badly last year, especially with the loan signings.

Granted most of the World Cup games have been played and I'm certain Roberto saw a few hidden gems there too.

Sue Brown
81 Posted 06/07/2014 at 14:49:51
Plenty of valid points being made here but let's all just calm down and look at things rationally. I would doubt any transfer business happening while Roberto has been away.

He has now finished his gig in Brazil and is on his way home. I'd be very surprised if he hasn't made some close observations on, inquired about or made contact while over there with certain players on his shopping list, so we'll see what he has to say once he's back.

Hopefully in the next week or so we'll be hearing some good news... just have a little faith!

Paul Tran
82 Posted 06/07/2014 at 16:31:32
Darren, I'm not not making any 'excuses' for Martinez. I just stated what he's been saying all along: we'll be doing business after the World Cup.

I can understand your certainty that we'll be running around for players once the season's started. I'm expecting it, but I'd rather wait till that happens before starting the criticism. slagging off Martinez. It's your choice to get your criticism in early.

Putting aside your views on Martinez, where would you expect us to be regarding transfers right now?

Ray Robinson
84 Posted 06/07/2014 at 17:13:17
Robbie #79 – never as clear cut as that I'm afraid. We lost a 41 goal a season striker in '86 and won the league in '87! I'm hoping that the Suarez sale will be terminal for the RS but Liverpool can improve in other ways – ie, by strengthening the defence. Acquiring Can and now seemingly Loveren might be sound investments. They will have the advantage of being assimilated into playing style, tactics early in pre-season training. Always a good thing.

I hope that Martinez, faced with our financial restraints, has got his purchasing strategy right. Only time will tell.

Steve Jones
85 Posted 06/07/2014 at 17:30:48
Ray Robinson #56 - YouÂ’re spot on, we need players in from the start of pre-season to be working as part of the squad. If it had happened earlier last season, then we would have been a lot closer points-wise to 4th. WeÂ’d played three games (all draws) by the time Barry & Lukaku joined; then they had to settle in too.

Martinez has been a breath of fresh air and reinvigorated the club and I have no issue with what he may be planning but the bottom line is he is hamstrung by our lack of finances; as others have said, we are four players down with the addition of the Europa league to compete in.

We all know how it works by now surely? IÂ’ll be ecstatic if IÂ’m proved wrong but suspect we wonÂ’t see any of last JanuaryÂ’s or last summerÂ’s net gains from player sales versus players bought invested so it will be a case of waiting for the Sky money to come in or selling to buy.

To all those saying the window has only been open a few days IÂ’ve posted this numerous times on various Everton related sites but here goes again:

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/27667106

The key points being the 1st 2 paragraphs:

"The transfer window re-opened on the final day of the domestic season and will close at 23:00 BST on Monday, 1 September.

Clubs could buy domestic players again once they had played their final game of the season. International deals can go through from 10 June."

Most contracts run until the end of June which seems to have confused the matter but, the minute the last ball was kicked, clubs could buy players from the UK and international deals have been open for nearly a month.

ItÂ’s the inevitability of it all that gets me; we know we wonÂ’t build on last season or progress.

Darren Hind
86 Posted 06/07/2014 at 19:04:24
Paul,

First let me apologise, I get a little frustrated at the "Roberto can do no wrong" attitude which seems to be sweeping Evertonia at the moment. I have read your post and I know you always try to offer a balanced view.

I don't have an answer to your question. I don't have a definite view of where I would expect us to be regarding transfers right now... but I feel that when small windows of opportunity present themselves – and we can't know that what they are – it has to be in the best interest of EFC that our manager is around to capitalise.

No matter how the excuse factory want to dress this up, Robbie can not get these few weeks back.

TW reporting that Robbie is back this week and that makes me happier – it doesn't take much

Paul Tran
87 Posted 06/07/2014 at 19:44:45
Cheers Darren.

Some people might be surprised, but I share your views on the Roberto gush-fest, which is eerily similar to that given to his predecessor. I genuinely don't think we're missing out by Martinez being in Brazil – he may be closer to the ground regarding players, agents and coaches.

On a wider level, many of us don't have to be chained to the office to be productive. My view is that it's the same for football managers, especially before pre-season. The problem with this debate is that we don't know the budget, or the timeline for the budget. I'd like us to sign two strikers, a canny, streetwise midfielder and a central defender familiar with a football,

As I've said previously, I like and wanted Martinez, so I'm more likely to take a positive view of what he does, but I won't let the facts get in the way. If the squad isn't genuinely stronger at the start of the season, I'll be criticising him, but not before.

Kevin Tully
88 Posted 06/07/2014 at 20:43:53
The thought that Everton cannot carry out any transfer business because Martinez is in Brazil leaves me speechless.

Is this 1927?

Eric Myles
89 Posted 06/07/2014 at 20:52:02
If Martinez can't carry out transfer business while he's in Brazil how is he going to do it next week while in Austria? Unless he's after some Austrian player like when we signed Bosnan?
Patrick Murphy
90 Posted 06/07/2014 at 21:09:04
Kevin T (88) It would be great if it was 1927 we'd have a Centre-Forward who would be scoring 60 goals next season, the Title would be sitting in the Trophy Cabinet next May and the season ticket would cost peanuts.
Darren Hind
91 Posted 06/07/2014 at 21:12:03
Fair enough, Paul.

I wasn't claiming that Martinez being in Brazil restricted our opportunities of recruiting new players.

I state quite clearly that it was the time he devoted to his "other interest" which troubles me. He could have been anywhere.

The four managers who finished above him last season could have spent their summer Moonlighting ... wonder why they didn't?

Patrick Murphy
92 Posted 06/07/2014 at 22:08:59
Darren,

All the best footballers, coaches, agents and every other footballing person who is anyone would have been in Brazil. Much of a manager's job is to make personal contacts and build-up relationships with those people which may help to get us players on loan or to buy in the near future. I don't ever remember any previous Everton manager getting stick for not being on the job 24/7 in the close season, but I stand to be corrected as always.

Paul Tran
93 Posted 06/07/2014 at 22:12:54
Darren, straight from Pedants Corner, Wenger has been in Brazil for French TV, Mourinho is there as 'Ambassador for Yahoo', whatever that is. Not sure about Pelligrini and Rogers.

I'll accept that while he's on air, he's unable to man the phone and negotiate, but that probably leaves 20 hours of the day for EFC work.

I'll be waiting for the quote from a missed transfer target, 'I wanted to sign for Everton, but Martinez was on ESPN, so I signed for Burnley instead.'

I think it's healthy to criticise the manager, there wasn't enough of that for his predecessor, but this is taking the piss a bit.

Shane Corcoran
94 Posted 06/07/2014 at 22:28:26
How on earth are Man Utd managing? Van Gaal isn't even back for pre-season and they've bought Herrera and Shaw.

I like a good moan so I won't be too harsh on Darren.

Kevin Tully
95 Posted 06/07/2014 at 22:51:31
I would like to know how a transfer works in modern day football. We can all take a guess, but I do wonder how much input a Premier League manager has into these multi-million pound deals? (envelopes aside!)

I doubt they deal with the agents, the manager may try and sell his vision to the player, where they will play them / whether they will be first choice etc. but after identifying said player, they may put a max price they are willing to pay, then Elstone would take over from there? There are probably pay scales already in place for certain players, they obviously set a maximum wage at the club.

Maybe Matt Traynor can answer this one? He seems well informed on these type of deals.

Mike Gaynes
96 Posted 07/07/2014 at 00:15:29
Condolences to TW's many new fans of USA right back DeAndre Yedlin, at least those hoping to see him in Everton Blue. We weren't the only ones impressed. Word here in the Colonies is that Roma has snapped him up.
Geoffrey Caveney
97 Posted 07/07/2014 at 00:47:05
Mike, after reading the rumour that, God forbid, the RS were chasing Yedlin, I'd be relieved if he went to Roma or anywhere else.
Dennis Ng
98 Posted 07/07/2014 at 02:00:05
Patrick, good list on your #23 post and great note on how we bought 20-goal strikers and they failed to reach those heights. It begs the question. Is finishing our biggest problem?

Based on last season, probably at the moment, but I think there is more work needed to solidify the midfield and defence. Not a coincidence to say I also believe ready-made 20-goal machines are outside our financial abilities.

Perhaps we should focus on the simpler options, like actually signing Barry or whoever was the second option behind him? ItÂ’s unsettling to hear West Ham trying to pip us to the deal, weird to actually WANT the World Cup to end NOW.

Darren Hind
99 Posted 07/07/2014 at 04:55:32
Paul

Comparing the lengthy hours / days Martinez put in working for ESPN to Jose's "ambassadors" role is really clutching at straws. especially as Jose has already bagged two players.

Martinez did not just get offered a job when he was out there. He told us weeks ago that we would not be signing anybody until AFTER the World Cup. He narrowed our transfer window in advance because he knew he was going to be tied up.

"20 hours a day for EFC work"? You are deluding yourself Paul, unless Roberto can function without sleep (as well as walk on water). There were days when he barely had time to log on to check if Kenwright's cheque had cleared.

When (not 'if') we kick off what threatens to be a gruelling season, desperately scrambling around to find out who is still available. Perhaps you'll take a bit of time out from being "hopping mad" and reflect on a couple of weeks when anything would have been better than nothing.

Paul Tran
100 Posted 07/07/2014 at 07:39:42
Darren, my mention of Mourinho's 'ambassadorial' role was a desperate attempt at humour, sorry.

I'm sure you'll secretly acknowledge that Wenger is out there derelicting his duty as well.

I don't think anyone out there on TV has a gruelling role and I don't think Martinez being in Brazil is stopping us from acquiring players.

Do you really think Wenger and Martinez have gone to their employers and said, "Look lads, I'm going to the World Cup and I'll won't be watching any players, speaking to any coaches, clubs or agents. My phone's off, speak to you on 14th July"?

You don't have to be a blind devotee of Martinez to think that's stretching the imagination a tiny bit, do you?

The truth is that none of us actually know or can quantify how much 'work' is being done. The only thing that matters is the squad at the start of the season. That's when I'll give my opinion on his 'work'.

Matt Traynor
101 Posted 07/07/2014 at 09:06:58
Kevin #95, IÂ’m no expert, but my understanding of the process for a normal transfer is this:

1) Clubs agree a fee via written offers, which may be after a prolonged period of negotiation. Some clubs may instruct agents at this point if they want to move a player on to go out and find another club, based on an indicative price. An agent should not tout a player without the written permission of the playerÂ’s club.

Who in the club agrees fees? Could be CEO. A COO. Director of Football. Company Secretary back in the day. The manager shouldnÂ’t have much input over and above whether heÂ’s okay with signing or selling the player.

2) Fee agreed, negotiate personal terms with player’s agent. Lots of clauses, contracts in the 80s were 2-3 pages and these days are huge, for top players. It can include details of the player’s role in the team, and if all is agreed then a medical will be arranged. (This still doesn’t mean the transfer is done – Willian was having a medical at Tottenham when Chelsea stepped in).

3) Agent’s Commission is normally paid by the buying club. An agent can only be paid by one party – if a club is desperate to get rid, they’ll normally pay it. Players at the top level almost never pay it – and I think they should in 100% of cases. Clubs now have to report each payment to agent to the FA, who publish aggregate amounts by club / division. (A transfer can still go wrong here – like it did for Tim Cahill to Crystal Palace in 2004 – thanks Simon Jordan!)

4) Once allÂ’s done the transfer is lodged with the FA, and either the Premier League or Football League. This will include all the financials, installments etc. and the respective league takes a percentage cut of the fee, and also takes the VAT for the full amount of the transfer fee for future payment to HMRC (I believe this was introduced after the rake of tax defaults from clubs). These are the documents that I think need to be received by the FA by the transfer deadline. I think copies of player agreements can be delayed if there are logistical problems, but if the agreement between clubs is not lodged in time, no deal.

So thatÂ’s the rough process, and none of it specifically includes a manager. Some clubs operate with a Director of Football / Recruitment etc. I think it really depends on the individual. Every club operates to a budget, so the fees for players and wages/bonuses may be the remit of senior execs at the club, in consultation with the manager.

IÂ’d expect a manager to be more involved when it comes to discussing terms with the player from a perspective of his role in the team. Remember, according to the rules, a club should not even speak to a player unless a transfer has been agreed between the clubs. (Like that never happens!)

Kevin Tully
102 Posted 07/07/2014 at 10:07:32
Cheers Matt - with so much money at stake, I certainly wouldn't be leaving the negotiations to a manager.

I know for certain Green is the main player for any large outgoing transfers. Bill just cries at his desk!

Darren Hind
103 Posted 07/07/2014 at 19:15:04
Paul

In defence of Robbie's moonlighting, You dream up a truly bizarre conversation supposedly held between Wenger and Martinez with their employers... and then ask "You don't have to be a blind devotee of Martinez to think that's stretching the imagination a tiny bit do you?" ...

Fair enough, Paul. in the face of such a powerful and persuasive argument, I'm forced to concede that Robbie was absolutely right to turn his attentions elsewhere during an absolutely crucial transfer window.

So what if he has been on the telly more than Sue Barker recently. A man's entitled to earn a shilling, right?

Peter Laing
104 Posted 07/07/2014 at 19:53:02
Thanks for the breakdown Matt, I've been wondering how the transfer system works for ages but have never found out what the process is. Any idea how a fee is set? I guess it is a combination of market value and how much a club is prepared to pay??
Paul Tran
105 Posted 07/07/2014 at 21:43:43
Darren

I'm not 'defending' Martinez's 'moonlighting', just like I wasn't 'getting my excuses in early'.

Neither am I 'dreaming a bizarre conversation', I'm hitting your hypothesis with one of my own.

If you shout an argument loud and long enough, it doesn't become a fact. You think he's derelicting his duty and holding us back from signing players. I don't.

You don't like the Martinez gush-fest, and I'm with you on that one. Matching it with equally ridiculous arguments and calling them 'facts' doesn't help anyone.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree and roll on the interesting conversations about the squad once the season starts.


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