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Don’t sell McCarthy to buy Lukaku…right?

by   |   23/07/2014  Comments (94)  jump

Yesterday an article in Here Is The City suggested that if Everton really wanted Lukaku, we should sell McCarthy to Man Utd for £25 million so we could make an offer Chelsea couldn’t refuse of £30 million for Lukaku:

I polled NYC Evertonians on Facebook about this suggestion, and the response was 12-0 against the idea of selling McCarthy to buy Lukaku. I imagine the response on ToffeeWeb will be similar, but I’m curious: would anybody make this deal?

Devil’s advocate: We have more good midfielders than good strikers. A world-class striker is a valuable commodity and very hard to obtain these days. With wins worth 3 points each, a team cannot be at the top of the league without being one of the top goal-scoring teams. (The Premier League champion has ranked 1st or 2nd in goals scored in 21 of the 22 seasons.) We could replace McCarthy more easily than we could find the equivalent of Lukaku.

That said, I’m against the idea. Barry and McCarthy are a proven partnership that anchors our team in the middle of the field. They fit Roberto’s strategic style of play perfectly. Why sign Barry only to turn around and sell McCarthy?

Still, strikers are strikers and goals are goals, regardless of the style or the strategy.

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Reader Comments (94)

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Matt Traynor
1 Posted 23/07/2014 at 15:14:19
Geoffrey, IÂ’m assuming youÂ’re a relative newcomer to ToffeeWeb, and apologies if I have that wrong.

Thing is, up until this season just gone, we operated at a substantial loss before player trading was taken into account. Mainly due to finance charges / interest related to all the borrowing this board has loaded onto the club since taking over. Estimates vary, but are anything between ٤m-٧m a year was most observersÂ’ projections.

So over, say, a 5 year period, thatÂ’s 㿊m-㿙m that has gone, that would otherwise have been available for investment in playing staff, or other infrastructure.

Even with player trading, selling off a big name every 1-2 years, the net spend for much of the previous decade was close to zero.

Sadly, the Chairman doesnÂ’t have the personal wealth to indulge his passion - hence why we loaded up the debt just to "stay competitive". His "Friends of Everton" he brought in to buy shares are only interested in a return on those shares when the club is sold.

So whilst it would be akin to selling your TV to buy a DVD player, I can see the logic of the article when one considers who our custodians are.

Tony Page
2 Posted 23/07/2014 at 15:17:00
25 million for McCarthy. Spend 20 million for Lukaku, 4m for Besic (who is possibly as good as McCarthy.) Yes, I would sell if it meant getting those two in.
Dan McKie
3 Posted 23/07/2014 at 15:23:09
If we need to sell anybody to fund the signing of anyone, then Bill finally needs shooting, and for one of his happy clappers to pull the trigger.

We sold plenty of players last summer/january, replacing with cheaper alternatives. Big earners such as Moyes, Neville, Fellaini, Heitinga have all gone, and again, replaced with cheaper alternatives. Add to the fact the TV and prize money revenue rocketed and I really canÂ’t see why we would have to sell anybody. However, this is Everton under Bill. Expect Â’other operating costsÂ’ to rise in line with the funds I mention above.

Geoffrey Caveney
4 Posted 23/07/2014 at 15:22:15
Matt (1), you are correct, I am a newcomer, and I appreciate your patient explanation of the financial history of the club.

Sounds like we need a somewhat wealthier owner with a passion to indulge.

And playing devilÂ’s advocate again, if DVD players were scarce and TVs more readily available, some might consider selling the TV to buy the DVD player, and then go find another TV.

Paul Andrews
5 Posted 23/07/2014 at 15:33:56
Selling McCarthy now would send out the wrong signal about what we are trying to achieve as a club.

Beside that,given the choice between McCarthy and Lukaku I would take McCarthy 100 times out of 100

Phil Sammon
6 Posted 23/07/2014 at 15:27:53
When you rationalise it, it might actually be a good deal. IÂ’d say that a top quality striker would earn more points over the course of a season that a top quality defensive midfielder. Particularly when we are desperately lacking in the striking department.

However, heart versus head, my heart always wins. McCarthy is just about my favourite player at the club. Him and Coleman I reckon. These lads understand Everton and in this fans eyes, that matters.

I like Lukaku and I hope we can bring him in, but not at the expense of another key player.

Steavey Buckley
7 Posted 23/07/2014 at 15:35:19
McCarthy can be considered a local lad who plays really well for the blues. Sell him? You would have to be mad.
Peter Laing
8 Posted 23/07/2014 at 15:32:52
Doesnt make sense, whilst Martinez is at Everton I expect that McCarthy will continue to don the royal blue shirt for what will hopefully be many years to come. Martinez has tracked McCarthyÂ’s career from his days in Scotland and if you want an analogy heÂ’s akin to Moyes - Phil Neville albeit much better and more proficient in every aspect of his game other than pointing his finger.
Patrick Murphy
9 Posted 23/07/2014 at 15:40:44
Perhaps BK and his cohorts will try and sell Tim Howard to the NY Red Bulls, Seamus to Arsenal, Barks or Stones to any of the top clubs get Roberto to promote the youngsters into the first team pool and hey presto we can be solvent once again. Apart from the fact that it wouldnÂ’t make us debt free as the debts are long-term, high interest loans - sort of kitbag in reverse - taken out for god knows what reason many years ago and have at least 11 years left to run.

Si Cooper
10 Posted 23/07/2014 at 15:44:48
So because McCarthy is a defensive midfielder he is easily replaceable and not necessarily key to the teamÂ’s success?

Do people actually understand that football is a team sport?! The guys who score the goals may be the headline grabbers, but they would find their job a hell of a lot harder if you reduced the quality of their team-mates. You may find the odd exceptional player who appears to do it all by themselves but, even if that isnÂ’t all just an illusion, Lukaku doesnÂ’t fall into that category.

McCarthy cost us 㾹 million last summer and is now supposedly worth double that; you would have to spectacularly luck-out to get someone just as good or even better for around ٢ million. I am excited by the prospect of the player Besic may prove to be in the EPL but I would be hugely surprised if he settled right in. Even if he only took a couple of months to settle and adapt, there is a good chance that our season would be as good as over in terms of winning anything by then. Gareth Barry isnÂ’t the future (he may not even reproduce last years form) and Darron Gibson is unlikely to be available every week, so McCarthy and Besic (when up to speed) may be just what we need to take a step forward from the season just gone.

The other aspect is that the board simply have to be expected to provide some extra money for transfers at some stage considering the money that has been raised / saved from player sales and the extra TV revenue (I am not talking about the headline 䀆 million figure that is tossed around, but it canÂ’t be unfair to expect something like 㿀 million to have been put aside).

I like Lukaku a lot but I actually think you may have as much luck chancing 㾻-㾾 million on a young continental / South American prospect backed up by the best defenders / midfielders / wingers we already have rather than hoping that Barry plus A.N. Other equals a unit to repel all that the other teams can throw at us.

Jay Harris
11 Posted 23/07/2014 at 16:17:41
Estimates vary depending how much Bill has stuffed behind his luxuriant sofa but the club should have between 35 and 50 million surplus over the last two seasons from the net proceeds of player sales including Arteta, Fellaini, Jelavic, Velios, Gueye etc etc.

We need more quality at the club and therefore even an inference to selling McCarthy, Coleman, Stones or Barkley is absolutely unacceptable.

Why we accept this sob story from Black Bill all the time I don't know. He has been pleading poverty and looking 24/7 for over 10 years now.

Bill the needle is stuck please put the "unexplained operating costs" right and invest some of the record income in top flight history in some quality players so we can regain our long lost pride as one of the top clubs in England.

Dan Nulty
12 Posted 23/07/2014 at 17:21:59
Geoffrey, do you work for the Daily Mirror!?!?! This sounds like the nonsense they would be peddling.

I'll apologise profusely if wrong but I can't see us selling McCarthy at any price, I firmly believe the money is there to sign Lukaku whether we sell anyone or not. I hope Bill doesn't prove me wrong but we don't exactly want to be bragging about having 㿊 million to spend so that people take the piss like they have with the prices Liverpool have paid.

Bill Gall
13 Posted 23/07/2014 at 17:12:49
Now we are going from just bringing in quality players to talking about selling one of our better players to fund it.

I thought the idea to improve the team was to keep your best players and improve it with transfers and loans as we have been told is part of the managers '5-year plan". I hope none of our better players are even considered for sale to pay for another player.

However, who knows what Blue Bill's thinking is going to be.

Sam Morrison
15 Posted 23/07/2014 at 17:41:57
Don't think anybody needs to give Geoffrey a hard time; he was just mooting it for discussion.

And on that note, much as I like Lukaku, I would be horrified if we sold McCarthy.

Geoffrey Caveney
16 Posted 23/07/2014 at 17:39:42
Dan (12), I agree with you. The Here Is The City piece scared the crap out of me because I thought it was something we might do and I didn't wanna lose McCarthy. But I know how badly we need a striker like Lukaku and.... So it's good to hear more confirmation from folks about why it is not a good idea.
Wayne Smyth
17 Posted 23/07/2014 at 17:35:36
Bill, I think the question is hypothetical, so I don't think we have to sell anyone to buy Lukaku.

My gut feel is that the Lukaku situation is delayed because Chelsea would rather keep him and while we are an acceptable destination for him, he'd probably prefer a CL club.

With that said, and assuming we couldn't afford him without selling McCarthy, as per Geoffrey's question, I think I would.

McCarthy + ٣M is easily worth Lukaku. Si Cooper suggests we could blow 㾻M on some untried South American, without realising that actually Lukaku has proven form in our league with us and WBA. How much cash has been wasted on talent from outside our league only to find they come with baggage. We know Lukaku very well by now.

Furthermore, while defensive midfielders are an important part of the team, strikers actually do the more difficult job - strikers don't get paid more and cost more in transfer fees than defensive mids, for no reason.

If McCarthy were to leave we would have Barry and Gibson, plus the likes of Ledson, Grant and Lundstram coming through. Barkley can probably play deeper if required, as can Osman.

We probably would replace McCarthy, but decent centre mids are not actually that expensive. Cleverley would more than likely be available at sub 㾶M, and Besic is available at ٢M.

As a general point, I don't have anything against selling better players in the team, if at the end of it, the team is improved.

We can see that last season, selling Fellaini helped us to afford McCarthy, Barry and Deulofeu. I think we were a much stronger team as a result.

Dennis Ng
18 Posted 23/07/2014 at 17:54:27
I remember watching the Ger-Arg WC Final and thinking how unsung Schweinsteiger and Mascherano are. If $30m can buy us guaranteed goals, then sure, that is something we can think of. Then again, at that point, I think fans would agree that we rather break the bank and keep both.
Sam Hoare
19 Posted 23/07/2014 at 18:29:30
McCarthy has been RMs one succesful purchase, I think the likelihood of him being sold is very little. Unless the offer is astronomical which is also unlikely.
Paul Andrews
20 Posted 23/07/2014 at 18:35:39
"McCarthy has been RMs one successful purchase.

How many "purchases " has he made Sam?
And which of them do you consider to be unsuccessful?

Harold Matthews
22 Posted 23/07/2014 at 18:38:00
I like McCarthy. Couldn't care less about Lukaku. Wish he'd clear off somewhere else.

Torres may go for 㿊m. (late rumour.)

Dan Brierley
23 Posted 23/07/2014 at 18:39:28
I think Wayne #17 is spot on. If sold for 25 million, McCarthy cold quite easily be replaced. I think you would be able to pick up Morgan Schneiderlin for half of that, and have a more than adequate replacement. If you think Yaya Toure cost 24 million, 25 million for McCarthy is snap their hand off territory.

McCarthy is fantastic when not in possession and we are trying to win back the ball. He has a great engine, and good positional sense. But when in possession, he adds very little. I don't ever imagine him to be a player that is going to burst forward and make things happen. He seems to prefer to pass the ball to Barry who takes midfield responsibility for passing. I personally think we would benefit from a more Arteta type player in the middle, who can influence the game from the back and help get the ball forward quickly.

Kieran Riding
24 Posted 23/07/2014 at 18:56:57
Good god someone make it stop.

Kill it with fire or something.

Sam Morrison
25 Posted 23/07/2014 at 18:57:29
Mischief-making, Harold!
John Audsley
26 Posted 23/07/2014 at 18:56:25
Love McCarthy and he is very important to Roberto's EFC plans.

Id sell Kenwright however at pretty much any price

If we are pinning our summer spending on what Lukaku chooses to do after his summer holidays then i'm worried

I just don't see him wearing an EFC shirt next year and think the idea of us spending 25m on him madness especially if it means we sign nobody else.

Lewis Roll
27 Posted 23/07/2014 at 19:04:56
I cannot believe what I am reading.
Mike Green
28 Posted 23/07/2014 at 19:11:36
Just heard a rumour Swindon are in for McCarthy.....
Paul Andrews
29 Posted 23/07/2014 at 19:13:19
Dan 23,

Schneiderlin in 31 prem games 1 goal and 2 assists.

Looks like he is not a player who will burst forward and make things happen.

As defensive midfielders go McCarthy is far superior

Sam Hoare
30 Posted 23/07/2014 at 19:14:24
Paul @20. I think he's made 5 purchases so far right? McCarthy, Robles, Alcaraz, kone and Mcgeady.

Of those I would say only McCarthy has been a success so far. The others have not yet shone to my mind though hopefully they may this season.

Dan Brierley
31 Posted 23/07/2014 at 19:17:02
Hi Paul, hope you are well. I quoted Schneiderlin as a 'like for like' but at half the price of McCarthy if the 25 million quoted is to be believed. We could then use that 12.5 million money to fund Lukaku if money is really the issue. Finding a 21 year old proven PL striker is bit harder than finding a defensive midfielder with a good engine in my opinion.

Bobby Thomas
33 Posted 23/07/2014 at 19:09:53
This is all very much just talk.

But, if it ever came about, as much as I rate him I am of the opinion that unless you are one of the top clubs in Europe, if you get offered 㿅 million for a defensive midfielder you take it.

If you have a good football brain you can play holding and a replacement can be picked up.

As an observation, he's very good at what he does, very good. But he's an energy/runner player at the moment so he's going to have to adapt as he gets older because there is no way he can keep this up as he gets towards his later 20's.

A most recent example of a player not being able to adapt when his energy and fizz went, although they are different kinds of player, was Cahill. He just lost that extra he seemed to have, and had nothing to fall back on in his game as an attacking mid. It was all aggression, timing of runs, relentlessness and knowing when to how to pick up space. And when his physicality went it all went. He certainly couldn't really play and therefore offered nothing other than a bit of two touch playing deeper in front of the back four.

So McCarthy will have to adapt, but I can see why he's getting linked as he's a brilliant presser and covering player at the moment.

But a holding player? 㿅 million? Take.

We need goals.

Paul Andrews
34 Posted 23/07/2014 at 19:42:47
Hi Dan,

Good thanks, likewise for yourself. I don't think you could buy Scheiderlin for 㾸.5 million.

I misunderstood your post, when you were pointing out McCarthy doesn't add much when in possession, and would not make burst forward and things happen, I thought you were intimating Schneiderlin would. I was pointing out he is not that type of player.

Mark Frere
35 Posted 23/07/2014 at 19:49:21
Dan (23)

I don't agree that McCarthy could be "easily replaced". The midfield destroyer role which he plays is a specialist position and I can't think of many players who do it better than McCarthy in the Premier league. I remember Owen Hargreaves being easily England's best player in the 2006 World Cup by doing exactly what McCarthy does for Everton.

Mascherano was a stand out performer for Argentina at this years World cup because of his fantastic positional sense, work-rate and his ability to make a saving tackle at the crucial moment; if it wasn't for his crucial tackle on Robben in the Semi-final, Argentina wouldn't of made the final.

The likes of Mascherano and McCarthy are the best at what they do and what they contribute should not be underestimated. Players that do what they do, as well as they do it are rare and not easily replaced.

I want to see Lukaku here next season, but definitely not at McCarthy's expense!

Peter Foy
37 Posted 23/07/2014 at 19:57:58
There isn't anyone at the club that I'd be happy to lose for Lukaku, not even the tea lady. No, I lie, I'd lose Bill for Lukaku any day of the week.
Dan Brierley
38 Posted 23/07/2014 at 20:06:44
Whilst I recognise McCarthy's defensive ability Mark #35, putting him in the same bracket as Mascherano is a bit blue tinted specs to be fair, considering Mascherano was the captaining Argentina at the age of 24, and playing for Barca at 26.

David Johnson
39 Posted 23/07/2014 at 20:17:08
Bill will be putting all the transfer money to one side for a stadium again. Then there are the houses to be built at Finch Farm to consider.
Mark Frere
40 Posted 23/07/2014 at 20:31:45
"Tinted specs" maybe, Dan, but I watch a lot of football games in the PL and around the world and I don't see many players doing what McCarthy does better him. There's a lot of similarities between Mascherano and McCarthy.... but like you point out McCarthy is untested at the highest level.

By the way, regarding your comment: I "If you think Yaya Toure cost 24 million, 25 million for McCarthy is snap their hand off territory".

Well, McCarthy and Toure don't exactly come with the same wage demands do they? Toure earns over 𧶀k a week....McCarthy 㿀k a week. Big difference there, that's why we can't compete for the 'already elite players.

Dean Adams
41 Posted 23/07/2014 at 20:37:28
Bobby Thomas 33
What on earth are you talking about regards Cahill? He was a real live-wire for the Aussies in the world cup. He had far more to his game than many gave him credit for. You are very mistaken if you think TC is finnished. He scored an absolute gem, which no English player managed. By all means make quotes, but get the facts right before you insult a club Legend.
Bobby Thomas
43 Posted 23/07/2014 at 20:46:22
Fucking hell Dean relax!

Cahill hadn't been doing it for over a year before he left. I think age and his style of play caught up with him and he couldn't sustain it any more, in admittedly one of the busiest and intense league's going.

Until he dropped a level he was brilliant for us. Absolutely brilliant. In many ways he personified Moyes Everton.

The facts are he's now playing in the MLS and has done well for a week in a tournament he's had the opportunity to get into peak condition for.

It's not the same thing.

Raymond Fox
44 Posted 23/07/2014 at 20:37:14
McCarthy's the type of player that doesn't do anything flashy, but are seriously missed when not playing.
Martinez will not sell, end of.

I think we may see Lukaku here anyway.
I also like the look of McAleny, if he doesn't make a player I'll eat my hat!

Dan Brierley
46 Posted 23/07/2014 at 20:56:25
Mark, in my own humble opinion, Matic, Toure, Arteta, Flamini, Mikel, Ramires, Carrick, Gerrard (as much as I hate the twat) and Fernandinho are all ahead of McCarthy in the PL when playing the holding midfielder role. And, all of those players have played at the highest level and succeeded, many of them captaining their respective clubs. Thats without mentioning players around the world like Busquets, Kroos, Schweinstieger etc.

People seem to have this idea he is a young inexperienced player, but he has already played more than 150 Premier league games. In which he has been excellent in terms of his consistency, but I would find it hard to say he is developing into a world class player. But I would be more than happy to chew on some humble pie, and watch him driving forward on the ball like John Stones had the confidence to last season.

Stuart O'Malley
47 Posted 23/07/2014 at 21:06:17
How long has it taken Man Utd to replace Keane? They still haven't. How long has it taken Arsenal to replace Viera? They also still have not. Players of McCarthy's ilk are few and far between and an absolute steal at 㾹M. 㿅M? Give it another 3 years and he will be worth twice that.

How many bad games the young James have last season? You could probably count them on one finger. As good as a season Lukaku had, he went missing in loads of games.

James McCarthy is the type of player who comes along very rarely, especially at the price we got him for, and we need to hold onto him at ALL costs. He is just going to get better and better and become a world class player. Of that I have absolutely no doubt.

Rob Halligan
48 Posted 23/07/2014 at 21:17:38
SSN reports Everton are on the verge of signing David Henen, with the deal close to completion.
Patrick Murphy
49 Posted 23/07/2014 at 21:20:32
Rob 48 Hours - Perhaps?
Rob Halligan
50 Posted 23/07/2014 at 21:25:30
Who knows Patrick, who knows?????
Dan Brierley
51 Posted 23/07/2014 at 21:25:41
Stuart, the players you mention may not have been replaced, as this type of player (Keane, Viera, Makele, Gattuso) no longer seem part of the modern game at the top level. This 'enforcer' role appears to have been replaced with 'hybrid' type defensive midfielders that can tackle, AND move the ball forward (Pirlo, Javi Martinez, Xabi Alonso, Yaya Toure, Sergio Busquets etc.).
Mike Green
53 Posted 23/07/2014 at 21:19:51
Stuart and Dan - reading your posts it sounds like you see the same player as I do, but have different opinions of whether he can take it to the next level.

My opinion is (and I see no reason why he can't) if he can drive play forward and get on the edge of the box, start netting 10 goals a season and setting up a few more I reckon he'll pretty much have it all.

He also gives possession away a little too often (but often wins it back when he does....). Add that to his game and we really will have a player on our hands, but even without that I think he'll still be great player for us for years to come.

Stuart O'Malley
54 Posted 23/07/2014 at 21:17:35
Dan (46)
Fernandinho 29....Toure 31...Carrick 33....Arteta 32...Gerrard 34....Flamini 30....Mikel & Ramires 27....Matic 25
James McCarthy 23

See were I am going with this, Dan? The position McCarthy plays in,experience is everything. You make the point that he has played 150 topflight games like that's a big number. It's nothing compared to most of the players you have mentioned. And I would only swap Toure right now, because he is already as good as, and will be better in time, than most of the players you list.

Mark Frere
55 Posted 23/07/2014 at 21:19:45
Dan, many of those payers you mention have very different attributes to McCarthy, but in terms of work-rate, protecting the back 4, covering for full-back when they go forward and making vital interceptions, I don't think any of those players are superior to McCarthy.

I don't see what exactly you see in Mikel's game that is so special? Carrick is very static for a holding midfield player. I do rate Ramires and Matic... and Arteta and Gerrard are much more creative players... but taking everything into account (age of some of those players, wage demands) I can honestly say, I wouldn't swap McCarthy for anyone.

Bobby Thomas
56 Posted 23/07/2014 at 21:25:25

You have put 3 holding passers in there to compare McCarthy against, which seems a bit pointless.

Comparisons with other pressing, closing, defensive midfielders would be fairer, as in Flamini, Ramires or Matic as you mentioned.

It's pretty pointless comparing Gerrard, Arteta or Carrick with McCarthy. Barry would be the more relevant comparison for these players if anything.

The above are completely different types of player to McCarthy.

(All are in their 30's and seen their best days on a side issue)

McCarthy is an energy player, a mobile, closing, covering defensive mid and any comparisons should be made on that basis.

Otherwise it would be a bit like attempting to compare Alan Shearer alongside Peter Beardsley.

Dan Brierley
57 Posted 23/07/2014 at 21:35:56
Stuart, I think Mark said 'I watch a lot of football games in the PL and around the world and I don't see many players doing what McCarthy does better him'.

I was highlighting that in my opinion, there are some players that are more effective. If you don't agree, and you think he will be worth 㿞 million by 26 then fair enough, I hope he is and I am completely wrong on this! I just don't personally see him becoming the best defensive midfielder in the world, based on what I have seen in just one season, coupled with the fact his highest personal accolade to date was Scottish Young Player of the Year... six seasons ago.

Bobby Thomas
58 Posted 23/07/2014 at 21:40:50
Amazed at the Mikel shout.

Dan Brierley
60 Posted 23/07/2014 at 21:45:01
If we want to measure a football player simply on his ability to chase, close down and position himself I would agree that McCarthy is better than all the players I mentioned.

I have highlighted some other players do indeed pass the ball, because I personally rate defensive midfielders on what they do when in possession also, not solely on the defensive side to their game. I think this has become an important part of the modern holding players game.

Jay Harris
61 Posted 23/07/2014 at 21:55:22
I don't see the point in comparing what other players do for other clubs.

The top and bottom of the argument is that Barry and McCarthy are without doubt the best defensive MF pairing in the Prem and that's all there is to say.


Not that they have said it but Bill and Cronies have no excuse whatsoever for putting forward an argument that we need to sell to get Lukaku.

Paul Livesey
62 Posted 23/07/2014 at 22:05:42
Getting Ross and Stones to sign long-term deals is the most important bit of business that needs doing this summer. I too keep checking to see if we have signed anyone and feel slightly gutted.

But fair's fair, Roberto did us proud last year so, in my opinion, we should just let him get on with it and stop moaning.

Dick Fearon
63 Posted 23/07/2014 at 22:04:43
Fer Gawds sake stop giving Bill and his "friends of Everton" an excuse to once again paper over the gaping chasm that is the difference between them and the boards of other top clubs.
Everton should make plain that we will not trade a proven asset for a player that has made clear he would rather ply his trade elsewhere.

As usual a lot of Twebbers at the first hint of another clubs interest can't wait to hang for sale price tags on the target of such interest.

Anthony Hughes
64 Posted 23/07/2014 at 22:21:29
I like McCarthy but to talk of figures in the 㿅 million bracket is just stretching it too far. As for a potential 㿞 million, come on, until he adds quality passing and a minimum 10 goals a season to his game he is what he is, a willing runner with a good engine who doesn't score enough goals.
Jay Harris
65 Posted 23/07/2014 at 22:34:48
And turning to some good news, apparently Besic has flown in today for talks with the Blues.
Pete Cross
66 Posted 23/07/2014 at 22:35:45
Off-topic I know but good news Besic is in liverpool
Dan Brierley
67 Posted 23/07/2014 at 22:40:17
I have no idea how Besic will fit into the side, I don't know enough about him. Is he one for the future? Or just a back up behind Gibbo, McCarthy and Barry?

Saying that though, any new players are good, especially considering we have a Euro campaign this season (feels good to say that again...)

Anthony Hughes
68 Posted 23/07/2014 at 23:16:22
Has he not just come to see the Giants?
Harold Matthews
70 Posted 23/07/2014 at 23:43:05
Sam. Martinez has made 6 signings. The 5 you mentioned plus the forgotten man, Jindrich Stanek, the 6'-4" Czech keeper from Sparta Prague who arrived as a 17-year-old in January for an undisclosed fee and has already been promoted to the U21s.
Bobby Thomas
71 Posted 24/07/2014 at 00:12:24
Dan 61.

Obviously you judge a player on his all round game and it is why I initially said McCarthy will have to develop other aspects as he won't be able to keep up the lung bursting pressing and covering as he gets older.

I personally think he is tidy in possession and nothing more. He will never become a tempo dictating holder. Others seem to be expecting him to add 10 goals a season to his game. Again, I just don't see it. For me he is a specialist defensive mid and he will develop that and get deeper as he gets older. Right now he can literally run all day.

I just thought raising a player like Carrick and other players of a similar ilk was pointless, as more different players to McCarthy you would be pushed to find.

Carrick has a great range of passing and developed into an excellent reader and interceptor. He can't run at all like a lot of passing holders. If they could they'd be playing in another position. Schloes played some of the best football of his career there for 3/4 seasons when his attacking mid days came to an end.

The player McCarthy reminds me of most is a pre illness Fletcher. Mascherano was another good shout.

Dennis Ng
72 Posted 24/07/2014 at 01:05:34
Harold, I think that 6th signing you just mentioned is another plus, even if minor, on RM's end. Great point on the age Stuart. Fair to say, how he'd develop under RM will be interesting. The addition of Besic probably will help too.
Si Cooper
73 Posted 24/07/2014 at 01:13:47
"Si Cooper suggests we could blow 㾻M on some untried South American, without realising that actually Lukaku has proven form in our league with us and WBA. How much cash has been wasted on talent from outside our league only to find they come with baggage."

Seriously, Wayne (#17), that is how you sum up my post?

I said 'South American / continental' and can you honestly not think of any 'gems' in the history of the Premier League who came from those regions for relatively little money?

Of course I realise (cheeky sod) that Lukaku has the big advantage of being a known quantity, but the whole point of the article the OP is addressing is that you can only gain by sacrificing a player like McCarthy to get Lukaku and my contention is that not only is that not a foregone conclusion, it is very possibly an even bet that a decent (and hardly inexpensive) striking prospect from outside the EPL could have as much impact as Lukaku as it is expecting Besic to assume McCarthy's duties from day one. Both are gambles, which is why my preferred option is to keep McCarthy and buy Lukaku with the money we should have put aside in the last 12 months for that very purpose.

Then Dan Brierly chips in with his 'identikit' midfielders who cover a very broad spectrum indeed. The point is, Dan, it is not simply about what McCarthy (who is still relatively inexperienced for a midfielder) does with the ball, it is also (possibly mainly) about what he allows other players to do in the system that we play (and are likely to continue to do). Gibson and Barry do something different and it is very unlikely that that pairing (or Barkley dropping deeper) will give you the same defensive solidity that McCarthy's prodigious work-rate and mobility helps to produce. Besic may be capable of that (who really knows) but he is ALSO completely untested in the EPL and therefore broadly analogous to striking prospects from around the globe who may be more affordable than Lukaku if Chelsea bump his price up to 㿊 milion.

To sum up - the same number of goals for but more against next season equals less points not more; it is not a simple equation and I am amazed some are viewing it as such.

Jim Lloyd
74 Posted 24/07/2014 at 06:31:31
Would we sell McCarthy to buy Rommy at for a mind blowing 㿊 million or so?

I suppose it rests on how you see the club progressing but I think it would be utter, unbelievable madness. Some have mentioned a number of players who are better than McCarthy (including Gerrard.) I wouldn't have any one of them in place of McCarthy (that's assuming the mega millions wages each those players are on could be afforded.)

Not only is he going to improve each season, he is in with a great shout of being our Captain for 5 years or more. Gareth Barry is at the same stage as Gerrard and we'll be lucky to get 3 years from him but hope I'm wrong and in those 3 years I think he'll help develop Macca's all round game and I certainly wouldn't be so quick to write off his capacity to develop those other aspects.


There is no need top be selling him. Our Billy Boy has let it be known that we have friends in Chelsea, so I have no doubts that we will get Rommy Boy for a reasonable fee!

Charles Brewer
75 Posted 24/07/2014 at 08:51:07
I am sorry, but until McCarthy has - by his own unaided efforts - lost the Premier League and got his home country eliminated from the World Cup, I cannot even begin to compare him with Gerrard.

More seriously, I have serious doubts about Lukaku in the current Everton formation. He's good going forward, attacking the goal, but he is poor at both heading and at receiving the ball with his back to the goal.

I'd be surprised if Martinez tries the 70%+ possession route again this year, it was found out and neutralised pretty effectively by January last year, I think he'll more probably go for a more rapid attack (more like Germany), preferably with the ball mostly kept on the ground and with disconcerting passing in the penalty area. I was amazed at the number of times German players passed coolly and accurately to others, and it seemed to work very very often.

Lukaku just isn't up to much either as a player who can hold the ball (he appears to have first touch like a sack of concrete) or who can engineer fast passes to colleagues.

This doesn't sound like much of a swap to me.

David Ellis
76 Posted 24/07/2014 at 11:52:28
Correct: don't sell McCarthy to buy Lukaku. If we did not have the money to buy Lukaku then we would have to go lower down the foodchain. Fortunately I do not think that that is the case.

If McCarthy were English, I am pretty sure he would be a regular in the England team. He is better than both Henderson and Gerrard in that defensive midfielder role. World Clas? No... but he is very very good.

Raymond Fox
77 Posted 24/07/2014 at 13:41:23
We won't sell McCarthy, so it's a case OF is he more important to our side than Lukaku? I think it's a 50-50 call, they were equally important for me. Both had excellent seasons.

I'm surprised about the level of criticism that Lukaku has come in for; if he doesn't finally become an Everton player, we will be very hard pressed to find a Number 9 to adequately replace him. He was one of the main reasons why we finished 5th; if they offered him to us for 㿀M-㿅M, I would snatch their hand off.

Harold Matthews
78 Posted 24/07/2014 at 15:36:43
Why did Roberto recently say that our dealings could take to the very end of Deadline Day? I don't get this. Surely we are not selling someone to raise cash.
Steve Jones
79 Posted 24/07/2014 at 15:48:51
We may be after someone who's hoping to hold out for a Champions League team Harold. If no such offer materialises he may be happy to sign for a Europa League side at a more realistic purchase price.

Roberto is saying that he's bargaining for players and isn't getting mugged off with inflated prices.

Harold Matthews
80 Posted 24/07/2014 at 15:52:15
Thanks Steve. Interesting point.
Brian Waring
81 Posted 24/07/2014 at 16:44:27
"Amazed at the Mikel shout." Agree Bobby, Mikel is fucking shite.
Rick Tarleton
82 Posted 24/07/2014 at 19:46:19
Having read the replies to this article, I now know that McCarthy doesn't play for us because we pay him better than Wigan did, but because he has Everton written on his heart. Like Lukaku, he's doing his job and he'll go to the best payer and the employer who offers the best opportunity for advancement, as we all do in our professional life.

McCarthy is a splendid player who was great last season and I think he's of more value to the team than Lukaku, but that's irrelevant as my opinion is not going to change Bill's policy. If we can land Lukaku at a reasonable price, 㾻M to 㾾M I hope we get him. Incidentally, he's training with Anderlecht rather than Chelsea which might indicate how the special one values him.

Harold Matthews
83 Posted 24/07/2014 at 23:13:40
Right from the off, this has been a very annoying and pointless thread.
Jim Potter
84 Posted 25/07/2014 at 07:25:18
Peter#37 ... you state that you wouldnÂ’t sell the tea lady for Lukaku. I would have to agree.

Hilda, at 59, is entering her prime. Her work rate and distribution is first class, she has an affinity with the club and promises to develop into something special. She is the kind of talented workhorse that could fit into any tea making formation - square bag or triangular.

Her positional trolley sense is first class, there are next to no spillages and she works extremely well with the other catering staff. Irreplaceable.

Hilda needs to stay where sheÂ’s fully appreciated and can grow. Things may go awry for her in a canteen at say United - as they probably serve coffee.

And the great thing about tea Hilda is, if you stick with it - youÂ’ll soon find a cup.

Geoffrey - whateverÂ’s brewing in the background - no, I wouldnÂ’t sell McCarthy. ThatÂ’s a mugÂ’s game. But, Rom for anything below 㿅m - (hopefully 18) - then yes please.

And two sugars please.

Norman McIain
85 Posted 25/07/2014 at 10:02:29
We sold Fellaini and Jelavic. The cash from these two alone provides enough to cover recent signings and Lukaku for about 㾾 - 20 million.

No need to sell our top players!

Richard Reeves
86 Posted 25/07/2014 at 10:59:32
Sell McCarthy to buy Lukaku? Why entertain the thought? Everton have made about 㿊M in profit from player sales since Arteta left, an extra 㿀M from TV rights for last season, and slightly more for this coming season. I wouldn't even suggest such a thing; it's not the mindset us fans should have as it makes these sort of deals acceptable.
Geoffrey Caveney
87 Posted 25/07/2014 at 15:11:50
Harold (84), I'm sorry, I did not mean to annoy you or anyone else. One reason I posted was that in my heart I want us to keep McCarthy, but I was having a hard time finding the logical arguments against "trading" him for Lukaku if we had to. Many commenters have been very helpful in making those arguments.

I for one have learned a lot about McCarthy's play and his value from the comments in this thread, so I appreciate those commenters who have focused on that. We Americans don't know a lot about subtleties like the different types of defensive midfielders and their skill sets. We're all about attacking and goalkeeping, as you saw in the World Cup.

By the way, the fact that we keep featuring McCarthy in our new kit photo promotions is hopefully a good sign that we have no intention of selling him.

Gary Russell
88 Posted 25/07/2014 at 15:26:54
Totally agree with Harold. Its very simple, building/maintaing a team means keeping your best players. It feels like we are on the cusp of.......
Harold Matthews
89 Posted 25/07/2014 at 16:56:13
OK Geoffrey. Think I understand. It's just that Roberto staked everything on McCarthy and, of all the players in his squad, this boy would be the last to go.
Lee Gray
90 Posted 25/07/2014 at 17:11:50
I wouldn't sell McCarthy for 㿔 million.

Man Utd paid nearly 㿊 million for Fellaini... I rest my case!

Mike Childs
91 Posted 25/07/2014 at 16:03:45
Way back Ray Fox hit it spot on. All you have to is think back to the Crystal Palace game where he sat out the first half and CP had their way with us. He came on in the second half and we almost rescued it.

He is my favorite player at Everton, one we can hardly afford to lose – especially for Lukaku who plays when he feels like it.

Jamie Barlow
92 Posted 25/07/2014 at 19:21:51
Ossie has said that he hopes we sign Lukaku before his testimonial so he can play.
Geoffrey Caveney
93 Posted 25/07/2014 at 21:29:40
Harold (90) thank you for the reply. I agree with you. Honestly I was horrified by the suggestion of selling McCarthy in the Here Is The City article, and I wanted some reassurance that it shouldn't/wouldn't/couldn't happen. I'm sure that as I get more used to reading the silly transfer rumours, I'll be able to ignore them more easily.
Brian Foley
94 Posted 26/07/2014 at 15:59:41
Lads, it's all getting a bit messy here. No sale is this first thing. Dan (68) is thinking right and just to embellish we need as many players as we can to keep an interest in those useless Thursday nights which I hate.

It doesn't matter who Martinez gets (to a point) we need incomings. Let him do some business as he sees fit (again no sales).

Unless he is thinking of playing Stones in the middle of the back four I would like to see a central defender (Rodwell will do that job and its MY OPINION only) - shoot me down, get him in to do it now. If you add Gibson Kone and Oviedo to Lukaku Henen Galloway Besic and Rodwell the numbers are not bad.

Martinez himself seems to get more out of what we might consider players of a lesser quality but I don't consider any player in the squad at present to be a 'dog' so to speak. The quality now is in greater numbers than that of the recent past.

I just got an 'ante-post' sheet out the bookies they've got us 7th. Spurs are 6th I think we could finish higher than them disappointed if we don't but 6th or 7th in the betting is fair we just need to focus on being better than what 'the experts quote, if so we're back in Europe etc.,

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