Skip to Main Content
Members:   Log In Sign Up
Text:  A  A  A

Try Decaf

by   |   08/08/2014  Comments (68)  jump

There seems to be a bit of a panic lately. Where's the loans? Where's the speedy winger? Our squad is thin...

Maybe I have too much trust in Roberto? Nah, that's not it. The man is gold.

Everyone needs to just calm down.

"But we've only really signed Besic," you say? "Same squad as last season, plus only one more," you say? Put the car in park for just a second and think about that one.

Our young talent is another year older, wiser, and battle-tested. Should we not expect more from them this coming season? Surely 20- and 21-year-old boys will improve through the years? Ergo, they should play better this year?

We've signed Rom, one of the best young strikers out there. We've solidified our future with the the contracts of Barkley, Seamus, Besic, and Stones. Frankly, we're in a good position.

Yes, a few more players in some positions would be nice, but this is Everton. We're not sleeping on piles of gold coins, and we just dropped an astronomical amount of money on one player whom our manager has the utmost faith in. Faith enough to build his attack around him for the next half a decade.

I also trust Roberto implicitly on the economic side of this equation. He won't overpay for average talent just to fill numbers. He won't bring in players that don't fit the vibe and ethos he's building here. In short, he won't spend money we don't have just to fill the squad. He seems to be equally concerned with the financial stability of Everton as much as he is with winning. That's a good thing.

Am I the only one comfortable with the current landscape?

In Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory I recall Veruca Salt — "I want a golden goose NOW!"

Everton Football Club and it's supporters are not a rabble of Verucas. So let's stop the whinging (to steal an English phrase), trust our fearless leader, and remember what we HAVE and not act the spoiled brat wanting more.

We're fine. We're going to have one hell of a season.

Finally, keep the vibe we had after we signed Rom. There's SO much to be positive and excited about!

I love ToffeWeb. But I often wonder if some contributors start their day with two espressos, snort a line at lunch, and then scream, "The sky is falling!!!" by your tea time...

Trust Roberto.

Try decaf.

back Return to Talking Points index  :  Add your Comments back

Reader Comments (68)

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer

Julian Wait
1 Posted 08/08/2014 at 20:58:25
Me, generally happy with the progress so far in the close season, and looking forward to perhaps one or two attacking loans before the transfer window closes. And really looking forward to whether the team can keep last season's momentum going into the new one.

I think (assuming Atsu is a done deal) we've got the bare minimum for the (hopefully) long and game-laden season ahead, now it's a question of cover where we don't have a Garbutt or Browning to step up in case of an injury crisis. And bottom line is, we all know that a serious injury crisis would put us mid table most likely, and that's not going to change anytime soon.

I would much rather we spend wisely, to gradually and sustainably improve the quality and depth of the squad ... versus taking the more scattergun (and very expensive) approach of a Spurs or RS and hoping it all gels.

Dick Brady
2 Posted 08/08/2014 at 21:07:26
I'm not worried as I'm sure we haven't become a bad team overnight but I do have a slight concern that we are standing still.

Make no mistake the teams around us (Liverpool, Man Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal) have been spending some major money. Of course we have too but we have spent big to assemble the same team as we had this season.

Basically you swap Atsu for Deulofeu and Everton have exactly the same side as last season. Well apart from Besic. But I can't see Besic making that much impact. Not when you consider Arsenal have Sanchez and Man Utd have Herrera and possibly Cuadrado.

Amazingly Everton have spent 㿎 million and essentially stood still with exactly the same team as last season.

Patrick Murphy
3 Posted 08/08/2014 at 21:17:19
I think regardless of the various posters state of mind or whether they have a negative or positive mindset - the main thrust is that we all want the same thing we want real success we wanted it when the Premier League began we wanted it in the dark days of the 1970s and 1950s and just about at any other time in the club's existence.

It's not as if for the most part Evertonians have been impatient or haven't understood the financial situation at any given moment in time. But last year gave us a proper glimpse of how close we were to breaking that glass-ceiling.

Many are worried that the golden opportunity has passed us by and won't arise again this season because the Box Office clubs will continue to outspend us by huge amounts - I don't really care about that aspect because it's not in the control of Everton FC or its manager.

What I do care about is that the team put in maximum effort in all competitive games and have a clear view of what they are trying to achieve. If the squad put in similar performances to last season this time around with a bit more belief that they deserve to be considered a decent team that will satisfy my basic requirements for an Everton side - I still believe we have a decent squad and can compete, but I am old enough to see how it can all unravel in a twinkling of an eye and that when bad things happen unlike the past and unlike the monied clubs we don't have the financial ability to dig ourselves out of a bad run of injuries or a loss of form by key players. That is why some are concerned that we have to be at our best from the very first kick to the very last kick of the season if we are to succeed this time round and any sign that the team is not up to the required level for whatever reason is often met with negative posts.

Ray Said
4 Posted 08/08/2014 at 21:29:11
We just don't have the budget for 25-28 top quality players like Man City, Chelsea etc. We have to settle for around 20 very good players and hope we don't have too many injured or suspended. We cant then rotate the team like the others can. This is the only way currently we can compete at the top. I support Martinez method of using the budget this way rather than thinning out the budget by spending it on squad players just to raise the numbers. I prefer spending 28 million on a talent like Lukaku rather than spend the same sum but on two players just to have numbers in the squad.
Nigel Gregson
5 Posted 08/08/2014 at 21:59:59
This is not about like or dislike Roberto - I love the man. Its all about common sense. We will play more games and, to cover those extra games, we'll need more players. Currently, we don't have those extra players. Even Oviedo and Kone are not back from the long injured. Coleman seems to have knock.

Last year the difference between fourth and fifth was a few dominant draws in the first month of the season, which, if we had the full team in place early might have been wins. Or remember the Anfield thumping when most of our team was walking wounded.There was simply no backup available.

Last year, Bobby was able to get in three top notch loan players to cover our gaps. He has the option to go down that route again this year, but he has chosen not to do so (so far).

We have a great first eleven, but add to that extra travel and extra injury risk, we'll really struggle if lets say Lukaku or Coleman or even Howard pick up a long term knocks. That leaves Naismith, Hibbert and Robles in the first XI for 2-3 months. That would pretty much end the season for me.

Peter Z Jones
6 Posted 08/08/2014 at 21:30:44
I'm with you Jamie. First it was, "Roberto got Wigan relegated. His teams can't defend." We were as solid at the back as we've ever been. Then we weren't going to be able to hold on to any of our top talent. Baines stays, leading to a chain reaction of commitments from ALL of our brightest prospects. Then, we didn't have enough depth to seriously challenge for top 4. We shatter our premier league points tally with this supposed lack of depth and come within a whisker of qualifying for CL. Then it was, "Well we all know how Everton doesn't have any money. We'll regress next season." We just spent tons of money and got LUKAKU. Now, after having the best transfer window in EVER, "We are standing still while the everyone else spends boatloads more." As if anyone gives a flying fuck about Liverpool spending vast sums on average players. The price tags are irrelevant, as our man Seamus can attest to. Everyone relax and have a look at the depth chart.

GK- Howard, Robles
RB- Coleman, Stones, Browning, Hibbert
CB- Jags, Distin, Stones, Alcaraz, Duffy
LB- Baines, Oviedo, Garbutt
CDM- Barry, McCarthy, Besic, Gibson
Wings- Mirallas, McGeady, Pienaar, Atsu
#10- Barkley, Osman
Striker- Lukaku, Kone, Naismith

How many of those players are or were capped as full internationals in recent years? I count 20 if you give Distin a pass on the inexplicable lifetime France snub. TWENTY. Now feel better about our squad depth.

Nigel Gregson
7 Posted 08/08/2014 at 22:00:15
@PeterJones no I don't feel comfortable with the backups in some key areas. See my post above.
Tom Bowers
8 Posted 08/08/2014 at 21:58:32
I think some fans are expecting too much from this club and this manager. Quite a few expressed dismay when he was appointed but look what a transformation to what we had before and he was the catalyst.

He still doesn’t have deep pockets to draw upon unlike Roy Rodgers and Co. so let’s be thankful he was able to secure a proven front man and some other wonderful talent to contracts just lately.

The future looks rosy so long as the injury bug doesn’t plague some key players.

Atsu may just prove to be the icing on this season’s cake!

Craig Fletcher
9 Posted 08/08/2014 at 21:58:17
Dick (# 2) a case can be made for, does spending money actually mean you become a better team?
Exhibit A would be Spurs last season. Sold one player, spent I think nigh on 100-million or so, and they never really looked likely for Champions League.
Arsenal spent more than they ever have last summer, and yet their fans could argue they "stood still" meaning 4th place.
Tom P Owen
10 Posted 08/08/2014 at 21:59:07
Martinez spoke of having a squad of 27 for this season, and he's just one short now, with the signing of Christian Atsu, and if you add Conor McAleny, Luke Garbutt and Tyias Browning to the list, which IMO will be the young players that Martinez has spoke about bringing through.

He wanted Barry and Lukaku permanently, and the current crop signed up on new contracts. All that we need now is another striker. I would say two strikers simply down to the injury concern of Kone. I'm not too fussed about Lacina Traore, but if Martinez thinks otherwise, I'm prepared to trust his judgement on that one. But if we are serious about mounting a serious challenge for top 4, and looking to go far in the cups, I would hope we would be looking at someone like Loic Remy.

It's slowly coming together. I'm sure he would've liked it all done quicker. If you would've said at the start of pre-season that the weekend before Leciester, we had signed Lukaku, Barry, Besic and Atsu, I'd have been fairly pleased. We need one or two more, which I'm confident we'll get.

I think the fact that the pre-season was a little slow to start with the lack of friendlies announced, and the lacklusture performances that followed which highlighted a lack of strength in depth upfront, has made people a little worried. Me included at times, but I'm confident we'll be ready come Leicester.

Peter Z Jones
11 Posted 08/08/2014 at 22:14:31
Nigel. Our realistic target should be to finish 4th. City, Arsenal, and Chelsea are better than us. No debate here. That leaves Liverpool, United, and Spurs as our main opposition. What you're saying about us applies to all of them too. If Sturridge goes down (and he's one of the most injury prone players in the league), are you saying Rickie Lambert is gonna push them over the hump? RVP is Mr. Glass from Unbreakable. Rooney is always an injury doubt as well. Does United bang in the goals without them? Not to mention they have the worst back 3 of any contender with or without injuries. Spurs. Christian Eriksen or Adedayor goes down. What do they do? Big injuries can derail anyone's season. At least Coleman and Lukaku aren't known for being on the treatment table for long stretches like some of our main rivals best players.
Trevor Thompson
12 Posted 08/08/2014 at 22:20:05
This season I'm prepared for us to finish slightly lower than we did last season as we now have the EL to play for. On the other hand, this is the chance to see what our young players can do. I think RM is really invested in youth: if you're good enough, you're old enough.

I believe he's not just looking towards this season but he's looking towards the future and we'll reap the rewards later down the years. We'll be able to spend on the odd marquee player while bring through some of the best youngsters in the country/world. When all the other top teams are spending shitloads on players we'll have our own and it won't cost us diddly.

I think we could be the Ajax of England (minus having to sell our best players).

Kevin Rowlands
13 Posted 08/08/2014 at 22:26:45
Excellent post Jamie, in my mind there is no doubt we are stronger going into this season and as Roberto has clearly stated more than once he will not just bring in players just to add to the numbers, unlike that idiot across Stanley Park who is splashing the cash like an out of control fool in my opinion, we will be just fine.
Colin Glassar
14 Posted 08/08/2014 at 22:24:41
Bugger decaf, I think most of you need a strong dose of Prozac!! So, Tom, Dick and Harry you want us to compete with Chelsea, City, Man U, Arsenal, rs having two world class players in each position? And just how the fuck do you propose we do that? We all know krusty and sideshow Bob are skint but even when they do smash our transfer record you still moan and whinge like a bunch of old women.

Some of you need a massive reality check. I’d love to be able to compete, financially, with the above named teams or the likes of Madrid, Barcelona, Munich etc....but at the present time that is impossible under the present regime. So quit yer moanin and get behind the lads. We are what we are and that is not going to change anytime soon.

Shane Corcoran
15 Posted 08/08/2014 at 22:51:37
IÂ’m not panicking (too much) but we need to hold back on the RM backslapping in some areas. He has paid out relatively big money on Kone and Mauro Boselli before him before we even mention the Lukaku fee so IÂ’m not sure where the overwhelming trust on all things economic comes from.

I think the World Cup is a right pain in the arse for club managers and RM is looking at making sure players donÂ’t tire two thirds of the way through the season.

The problem is weÂ’ve got a tough start and could do with hitting the ground running.

Raymond Fox
16 Posted 08/08/2014 at 22:32:22
Everyone's naturally impatient for some success be it Cup or CL qualification, but we can regard last season as a success in so much that we attained a record PL pts total for us and also qualified for the Europa League.
Some of us also think that the club appointed a very very good manager that has the potential to take us on to be more successful than in recent times, so that could be regarded as a plus.

Unless we can lure some sugar daddy with more money than sense into the club we are never going to be able to match the money clubs in the transfer market.
The only alternative for us is to make our youth system the envy of everyone else in the country, very difficult I grant you, but its our only way as I see it.

Dave Williams
17 Posted 08/08/2014 at 22:56:13
Well said Colin!

What we are doing with very limited funds is fantastic and I can't wait to see what we can do this season. Roberto has transformed us from an old squad to one with some of the most promising youngsters in the country. If Ross can mature this season we could just get top 4.

Mike Childs
18 Posted 08/08/2014 at 22:46:11
I'm so excited and I just can't hide it
I'm about to loose control and I think I like it...

A week later and I still got the Pointer Sisters in the front of my brain. Hopefully I'll still be singing it come May. This is certainly the happiest and positive I've been as an Everton fan. The last week has been a fairy tale come true. Now we just need "the happily ever after" ending.

Nigel Gregson
19 Posted 08/08/2014 at 22:58:00
@ShaneCorcoran - exactly ! No one's saying anything bad about Roberto, and hey deadline day is not here yet. Maybe he recognises that the best deals (esp year long cover loans) are made on the last few hours when people are desperate to push things through. If that's the case, then fair enough.

But Roberto's on record saying that all we really need is another wide player.

I respectfully disagree. Nothing I have seen out of Tyas and Tony has inspired any confidence in me about a backup rightback. We lose a LOT in attack without Seamus. Ditto for Joel 'butterfinger' Robles in goal. He's been a calamity in the friendlies and he really needs to learn how to catch the football. Last year Bobby got Traore as a backup to Lukaku and Naismith. This year he's hoping that Kone will be that backup. Its all rather scary.

Then again I don't know the full picture. Maybe Geoge Green is ready to step up into the long awaited home-grown striker. Maybe Tyas Browning, is actually a right back who was just being tested for fun in left back and center back positions. Maybe secretly he has Kagawa, Traore and Micah Richards lined up as last minute loan deals. Maybe tony hibbert's been crossing like Cafu in training.

In Bobby I trust, but I don't like unquestioned faith.

Kevin Rowlands
20 Posted 08/08/2014 at 23:23:48
Nigel, your first sentence in the second to last paragraph pretty much sums everything up, none of know the full picture, but one thing I think most of us can agree on is this is the most excited we have been about Everton in a long, long time, glass deffo half full for me.
Raymond Fox
21 Posted 08/08/2014 at 23:18:36
Nigel, its not that true Robles has been a calamity in the friendlies, yes the goal we conceded against was caused by his misjudgement.
Name me another goal that we have conceded in the recent friendlies or any match he played in last year that was caused by his error.

Its a good job he didn't start in the Celta Vigo game because I've no doubt he would have been blamed for those 3 goals as well on here.
I keep sticking up for the lad because not that he's been perfect, who is, but because if enough posters state 1/2 truths they eventually become taken as fact.

Peter Z Jones
22 Posted 08/08/2014 at 23:58:45
It's also worth noting that Tim Howard's best season for Everton took place with Robles pushing him in training. Seems good enough for me.
Ernie Baywood
23 Posted 09/08/2014 at 00:38:30
Now i've been massively impressed with Roberto. He's been a breath of fresh air at the club.

If you asked me for my gut feel I'd tell you I think that he's a shrewd man with a plan to play expansive football using young players and while operating within our means but pushing our chairman to release club funds when he thinks it's justified.

But that's just my gut feel and I wonder if we're not getting carried away. It's been just one season and my second paragraph is being stated as fact by many.

Maybe we just temper the love in a little bit? And as for the mural... we would piss ourselves if the other lot did that. Their love-ins with 'King Kenny', Rafa, the first Yanks (originally), and now Rodgers and Henry are the stuff of legend.

A one year love affair with a charismatic Spaniard doesn't mean we should stop questioning the squad.

Harold Matthews
24 Posted 09/08/2014 at 05:38:30
If the back four can get their act together I think we'll have a great year.

Lukaku will do plenty of damage, Barkley will be a sensation, the midfield will be as hard as nails and Atsu will be brought on to scare people.

Matt Traynor
25 Posted 09/08/2014 at 07:01:29
The way I view it, we're where I expected us to be. Given our major shareholders will not invest in the club, they are trying now to use the increased revenue to bring some stability to the operations.

So we've been operating on a net negative spend for years, and with the new broadcast revenues, allowing for the lag, this was always going to be where we finally "went big".

So we've made two of the four loan signings last season permanent, and added Besic, and beefed up our U18/U21 sides with Galloway and, hopefully, Henen.

I fully believe we'll add Atsu, and possibly Traore (why otherwise did we keep him when we knew his season was over last season? Although I understand Monaco may wait for the Falcao situation to resolve).

So to me that will leave us stronger than last season, and as others point out, with younger players a year further on in their development.

Hopefully the clubs servicing of borrowings is also going down, because as welcome as this spend frenzy is, we're trying to beat teams with more money than us to challenge the group with infinitely more than us. Not easy...

Jay Harris
26 Posted 09/08/2014 at 07:51:06
I think some of the negativity comes from genuine concerns emanating from preseason showings or lack of.

After the euphoria of landing Lukaku and being told we will add a couple more all goes quiet and we have performed abysmally in the preseason games so far.

People say preseason doesnt matter but of course it does. Winning builds confidence and becomes a habit.

Lets be honest we have looked a shambles against the likes of Tranmere and Leicester let alone Porto and Celta Vigo.

I think there are also genuine concerns about how lightweight the preseason preparations have been.

I think we also have genuine concerns about our chairman and cronies who should have a spare 35 to 50 million from previous transfer activity and have only committed 9.5 million on Rom, 1.5m on Barry and 2.5 m on Besic besides the improved contracts for some of the kids averaging a million a year each.

It is Ok to say we want to develop youth but lets be honest apart from Garbut has anyone looked set for the Prem and we have lost Delefeu, Jelavic/Traore, Velios and Gueye from last years squad with the extra demands of the EL to come.

Now I am all for excitement and anticipation but am also a realist and I can say I am genuinely concerned about our lack of preparation for the coming season.

Ray Robinson
27 Posted 09/08/2014 at 08:18:26
We're one quality forward away from a position where I'd be fully confident of a successful season. No matter how optimistic I try to be, the prospect of starting off against Leicester next Saturday without Lukaku brings me back down to earth. Quality teams have two or three quality strikers. Yes, I know we don't have a huge budget but there must an adequate, affordable striker out there somewhere. I have no expectations of Kone - he's been out way too long for me to be certain of him making any future contribution.
Chris James
28 Posted 09/08/2014 at 08:18:13
If we can get Atsu in I think we're fine to start the season, but I also believe we'll need 2 or possibly 3 more before the transfer window, at least one of these needs to be a striker because basically we have two proven front-men who we expect to be fit and ready - Lukaku (first option) and Naismith (support/sub), and one we really have no idea about (Kone). Even with Mirallas to be pushed up front as injury cover this isn't enough to challenge on 4 fronts.

In terms of the other player I think we could do with another Oviedo type on the right - i.e. someone who can actually cover right back but also offer us another attacking option if our wingers are injured/out of form/need resting. Much as I love Hibbert and I think he's a good man-marker and always gives his all, he should really be reserved for the EL or cup games against lower opposition.

If we wanted the dream option then I'd say we could also do with another creative play-making midfielder so that there's a genuine option to Barkley that isn't Osman (who I think is basically done now), although I actually have a sneaky feeling that Besic could offer an option here would be good to have another.

Who should we look at? Clearly loans will be most likely.
I'd say Traore or a.n.other second string striker from overly rich continental club will fill the forward gap, we're clearly not going to splurge on another striker at this point.
For right-hand side cover, what about a cheeky pitch for Milner on loan? He seems, like Barry, to be out of favour at City and has been linked with moves away but if the Arabs were crazy enough to let him go then I'd be glad to have him in the squad. He's played on the wings, as right-back cover and in central midfield role and has a great assists record.
In terms of play-makers I'm less clear on this, would probably be a punt for a European squad/youth player from Barcelona or similar (a la Del-boy). That said, one player who totally did catch my imagination and could fill a few of the roles above (winger, forward) was Nolito - he looked dangerous all night and made our defence look like mugs in the first half (and he was playing his second game in 48 hours!)

All the above said, I think if we end up with Atsu only it's not the end of the world, but I have a sneaky feeling that we might still have some excitement in the last 24 hours.

Kieran Fitzgerald
29 Posted 09/08/2014 at 09:00:16
Given the supposed talent coming through our academy, and our lack of finances, in ways we are damned if we do and damned if we don't during this transfer window.

If Martinez was to spend the Lukaku fee on three decent players, it can be seen as money wasted as these players are then blocking the young players coming through. People will also be complaining that we could have spent the cash on a new stadium, or paying down the club debt.

However, we spend the 28m on Lukaku and then suddenly we are short on numbers and are worrying about the young players not being ready yet for the start of this season.

I think for now all we can do is sit on our hands and see how the season pans out.

An acceptable season for me, with all of the above considered, would be qualification for the EL in any way shape or form and two or three extra players from the acadamy fully integrated as senior players. We already have the making of a very young quality squad. Two or three more, with consistant qualification for the EL, would be progress. It would leave us in a healthier position on the pitch to compete for a top four finish and also means less pressure to spend on transfers.

Phil Walling
30 Posted 09/08/2014 at 09:41:30
Jamie: This is a discussion board set up to give all Evertonians the opportunity to express their views whether or not they buy into the endless stream of spin emanating from the Club via the Official Site.

Some of us are more cynical than others but where's the sin in that? Do you really want everyone to drink your tasteless 'decaf' so that their views are watered down and lack any sign of critical comment?

Maybe you do, but the strength and glory of ToffeeWeb is in its diversity of views. And for long may it be so !

Paul Andrews
31 Posted 09/08/2014 at 10:11:52
"Some of us are more cynical than others"

Fuck me Phil, you do yourself a disservice there.

Brian Waring
32 Posted 09/08/2014 at 10:12:46
For me, we really lack a playmaker in the middle.
Ian Bennett
33 Posted 09/08/2014 at 10:24:22
I'll be honest, I would love a real Latin type playmaker and speedy left winger to complete our side. Oh for another 㿅m...

The squad looks similar to last year, but the window still has a fair way to go, so expect some more incomings on loan or cheap signings.

I guess the interesting thing now is the squad is either long term top talent or oldie free transfers, so we have a limited ability to generate more funds from the deadwood. Unearthing a couple out of the academy is going to be key to keeping hold of the family silver. As Peter Johnson once said, your transfer kitty is running around the pitch.

Phil Walling
34 Posted 09/08/2014 at 11:07:32
Good point ,Ian. But just which players would you be seeking to move on?

Duffy, Alcaraz and Pienaar spring to mind but they wont go for much will they ?

Some see the likes of Hibbo, Ossie and Kone as 'deadwood' but surely they will be needed to make up the nimbers at the very least.

Sean Kelly
35 Posted 09/08/2014 at 12:04:57
I think a lot of people on here need to relax. Roberto has a 5-year project and I for one would accept a step back this year in order for the young core of our team to really gel. That may not sit well with most folks on here and yes, we have been waiting on silverware for far too long... but Roberto is building something special here.

Turn the clock back to when Whiskey Nose took over Man Utd and he built something from a crop of young players that delivered for many years later.

I would be looking for season 2015-16 to be the real kick-ass season. Patience please folks.

[Now I will hide under the bed waiting on the abuse...]

Mike Childs
36 Posted 09/08/2014 at 13:04:49
This is off target but I just felt a good laugh was worth sharing. I was reading a Bleacher Report article on the retirement of Howard Webb and what it means to United:
They'll be building a statue of Howard outside of OTT,
They'll retire his number,
They'll change the name of the SAF stands to the HW stands.
Just for reference during his days United awarded 9 PK,
Liverpool 6 PK and Arsenal 5. I wonder if he ever awarded us one.
Too bad though cause other than a stinker of a game he had favoring the RS last year I thought last year was his best.
Harold Matthews
37 Posted 09/08/2014 at 13:29:58
I love the vast array of different opinions on TW. Highly entertaining and keeps everyone buzzing.
Dean Adams
38 Posted 09/08/2014 at 13:44:35
Harold, you always seem to have such a level head. If only some of the younger posters had your abilities!!
Matt Sutton
39 Posted 09/08/2014 at 13:47:11
I agree on the comments regarding wanting more Right Back, Winger, Attacking Midfield and Centre-Forward options in the squad.

There are clearly lots of different combinations out there to cover some or all of these gaps. For me, achievable options that would leave us with the most complete squad we've had in my adult life time would be:

Ben Arfa

With those three added through loans and purchases – I think we'd be strong enough on paper to make the top 4.

Phil Walling
40 Posted 09/08/2014 at 14:02:04
Dean would have us all 'toeing the party line'. You just be careful you don't stray from that path of righteousness, mate!
Iain Love
41 Posted 09/08/2014 at 13:59:57
Apologies if this point has already been made: Other teams outspend us so they will be better than us?

Er.... Atletico Madrid???

Ian Bennett
42 Posted 09/08/2014 at 15:00:41
Phil 34 - that is my point really. We have no one else to sell with a decent receivable fee, other than ones we really have to keep. The likes of Ledson, Garbutt, Green really need to make it to avoid having to cash in on a Stones or a Barkley to replace the 5 or 6 coming to their end.
Ian Bennett
43 Posted 09/08/2014 at 15:00:41
Phil 34 - that is my point really. We have no one else to sell with a decent receivable fee, other than ones we really have to keep. The likes of Ledson, Garbutt, Green really need to make it to avoid having to cash in on a Stones or a Barkley to replace the 5 or 6 coming to their end.
Jamie Crowley
45 Posted 09/08/2014 at 17:41:06
Phil -

I absolutely don't want everyone to drink my tasteless decaf. I concur it's diversity of opinion that makes the world go round.

I've not shouted anyone down. I just find the hysteria to be absurd. My opinion which I'm sure with your open-minded-diverse-loving position you'll find more than acceptable.

I'll jump on the bandwagon if we drop points to Leicester City. You know, the opener. The game that actually matters.

Darren Hind
46 Posted 10/08/2014 at 14:43:57
Jamie #45 I suggest you take another look.

The only "hysteria" I see on these pages is coming from people defending Martinez from what I would consider - considering he didnt get back behind his desk until three weeks ago - very mild criticism.

Just look at recent threads ; "FFS The window is open another week" . . ."STOP PANICKING !!!"."He DIDNT say seven new players". "You all need to CALM DOWN, They're meaningless games" . . . Then there is your own "I find the hysteria to be
absurd"."Try Decaf" . . . . really? Why ? because we express an opinion that we don't believe the manager did enough (if
anything) for the first two months of this close season, in preperation for the next ?

Sorry Jamie, but reading your article was like reading one submitted by Corporal Jones. entitled DONT PANIC !

Peter Z Jones
47 Posted 11/08/2014 at 06:38:46
Darren. We defend Martinez to the death because he's improved every aspect of the club in one year. Free flowing football. Record points haul. Return to European football. No key players sold. Deadwood removed. Youth teams winning teams titles because they're motivated to break into the first team. All quality young first teamers signed on long term deals. A real striker with goals in him signed for a club record fee. In just about every aspect of football management, he's gotten it almost perfectly right to this point. I find it hysterical that you don't believe he's done enough. He's the best damn thing that could have possibly happened to this club. So yeah. You should stop panicking. Because if Roberto can't help ease your biggest fears for this club, I'm not sure who can.
Matt Traynor
48 Posted 11/08/2014 at 07:28:03
Peter #47, I don't think anyone is condemning RM, merely pointing out a few perceived errors/weaknesses. No one is perfect, and from my viewpoint, RM is a huge improvement on what we've had over the last 2 decades. He came into the club at the right time, when PL finances were changing such that he would have more wriggle room than any of his predecessors.

The best part about RM, like his immediate predecessor, is he came into the club young, and if he chooses to, can stay for a long while to develop himself as well as the club - without the pressure that might come from a more high-profile posting. Remember, Barcelona still regularly change their managers - hardly any European clubs offer the stability that some clubs are able to in England - it's just not the way they're set up.

But, as much as I am a fan of RM, I do find the almost instant deification of him by some quarters frankly embarrassing, in the same way that the "Moyesiah" was elevated, despite some truly shocking performances and records set in his early years. The mural on the end of the main stand for me was too much. By all means stick a whacking great image of heroes of yesteryear, or the current team. But that's just personal taste. I still hope RM is at the help for a good few years, leading a resurgent Everton to silverware.

Jim Potter
49 Posted 11/08/2014 at 08:10:17

Now before I have that decaf youÂ’re offering Jamie ... is it half full or half empty? If served by you, I know itÂ’s going to be just fine.

Just because other clubs are spending Â’largeÂ’ - doesnÂ’t equate to success (Spurs last season). At least weÂ’ve acquired proven talents that in 2 cases we know fit the bill. WeÂ’ve consolidated a good squad that plays entertaining and positive football and still have time to add more.

We’ve moved on - as we haven’t sold any of our crown jewels. That in itself is a decisive improvement. And even the pessimists, desperately looking for their ‘sweeteners’, can swallow that brew.

We have a positive manager, with positive players who actually want to sign (or re-commit to us) and some really positive vibes through most of the fan base.

When was the last time we had that?! No, really ..... when?

No - weÂ’re not stinking rich - and we canÂ’t afford Messi, etc.

No - we don’t have a new stadium nor a zillion other things we’d love to have. But on planet earth, in the real dimension we are forced to live in – then jeez guys, things ain’t that bad!

As Sean mentions above, Roberto (just one season in) is implementing a long term plan. Even Roberto cannot swish a wand and say ‘just add brown shoes for instant success’.

A lot of us have a positivity that we have lacked for years - and things look far more rosy than a short time ago. We have no other choice than to go Â’slowly slowly catchy monkeyÂ’. And who knows, we might grab that simian bastardÂ’s tale this year and end up with something.

And whilst the transfer window’s still open - breathe in and smell the optimism (or de-caf if that’s your choice) – as we might still add to a very promising squad.


Peter Z Jones
50 Posted 11/08/2014 at 14:46:47
Matt, and your point of view is totally fair. You assess our team/manager for what it is and there are areas that can always be improved because like you said, no manager/club is perfect. Your posts display a tempered optimism that I can get with. But there are some people on this site usually trying to tell me that the sky is falling when it clearly isn't. There are plenty of times I've been a negative Nancy on here, usually about individual performances of players in games that actually count. We all have. Roberto has been the star performer for a year now for all the reasons I've mentioned, and has largely gotten it right. He hasn't let me down nearly enough to get on his back, so I don't.
Jamie Crowley
51 Posted 11/08/2014 at 17:59:19
Darren -

You've got me wrong friend. I am definitely not imposing some type of mandatory thought process or a "how dare you think that way" approach. I was stunned Walling forwarded that concept and I'm still befuddled how you can take away that was the tone.

I do find it patently absurd that some people - I believe fueled by poor preseason results - seem exceedingly emotional over the current state of our Club. That doesn't mean I'm implying in some backhanded way they need to think the same way I do.

I'll leave the backhanded commenting talent to the British.

And yes, that was a backhanded remark I just made....

See Jim's comments above. He sums it up very nicely. Also Matt provides a very astute objective analysis and more tame (middle of the road as it were).

I'm with Peter Z Jones on this one - hence the post.

Now fall in line with our thinking dammit!

Wayne Smyth
52 Posted 11/08/2014 at 18:48:37
Peter, I think Martinez is a very good manager and some of the negative posts on here drive me up the wall too. This pre-season I think that we've made a lot of progress. Signing Rom and Barry on permanent transfers was good. Besic seems to be inspired.

We've tied down all our best players onto extended contracts which gives us stability in the long term....and if you don't think stability is important you know sod all about why we've often been pushing the Champions League spots ahead of teams costing hundreds of millions of pounds more for the last 12 years.

Importantly, the players - who are closer to the manager than us - seem to really want to play for us, under Martinez....and I think that bodes really well.

Martinez also likes to do things differently. Last year he got in a bunch of loans, got us playing passing football. People criticised and he was proved correct. This season, he's brought his World Cup players back really late and our pre-season results and performances have suffered.

Personally I'm not overly concerned, but it does worry me a little that Lukaku and Mirallas may not feature against Leicester. It's obviously a calculated gamble based on the season as a whole, which is fair enough. Being a contrarian and taking educated risks can often be the leveller when you're competing on an uneven playing field.

Honestly, I think Martinez will be good for this club, and I'm prepared to give him a long time to put his master plan into action before I get the knives out. Sadly, some always want jam today....not that I don't, but I'm just pragmatic.

Martinez is not perfect in my eyes by any stretch; I think the decision to give Hibbert an extended contract will prove to be poor. Hibbert was barely adequate at his best and now I think I'd much rather see the promising Tyias Browning given a slot and 40k / week saved.

However I'm not going to use the odd bad decision to beat the guy with, as the only football managers who never make mistakes are the ones who can reload their savegame.

Darren Hind
53 Posted 11/08/2014 at 18:23:46
Peter#50 and Jamie #51

A little challenge for you guys or anybody else who believes there are people who post on this site who are trying to tell you – to borrow a phrase you both used -AAC "The Sky is falling."

Show me . Show me a post since the season finished where somebody is calling for the Managers head , or predicting impending disaster . . .actually forget the "sky falling in". Show me a post where somebody even predicts we will not finish in the top eight?

The problem here is you guys don't like any criticism of the manager at all, no matter how valid.

When people post that our pre season performances have been Gash, its because our pre season performances have indeed been Gash. . . .agreed?

If people say the preperation and fixture planning has been
sloppy, its because the preperation and fixture planning has been sloppy. . agreed ?

Now you guys may not agree that the poor preperation so far, can be directly attributable to the fact that our leader did not teurn to work until three weeks ago. but do you really believe people making such a calm, rational, logical connection need to calm down or stop panicking?

I suspect you guys don't really have a strong defence against the points raised, so you have invented a couple of points you can defend. Nobody thinks the sky is falling, nor are there lots of fans calling for the manager to be given his P45 - another bizzarre claim on a current thread.

Its football chat guys, we all think some things can be better. but most of us a capable of saying so without feeling the need to "calm down"

Traditionally Everton managers are judged very harsly, especially by older blues. You may want to save some of your energy to "defend Martinez to the death" at least until the criticism goes beyond the raised eyebrows you are witnessing at the moment.

If Martinez gets it right (and lets face it, we've only got Leicester, so its difficult to get it too wrong) He will be rightly praised by all.
If he has got it wrong, he'll need a hard hat, whether the sky falls or not.

Its tough at the top

Phil Walling
54 Posted 11/08/2014 at 20:15:05
Fecking hell, even I believe we'll finish one place above eighth.......ish !
Sam Hoare
55 Posted 11/08/2014 at 20:34:12
I think Darren may be right. Have not seen much of this panic that people are referring too or 'emotional' overreaction that you mention Jamie.

The war lines are harder to find these days....

Paul Tran
56 Posted 11/08/2014 at 20:11:05
Darren, as ever I share your displeasure at the 'don't criticise Martinez' brigade. I do think you're giving them some ammo by your constant harping on about his supposed ESPN 'jolly'.

Our pre-season has been bizarre – few games against weak opposition, team looking off the pace, very uninspiring performances.

We've had our spat about Martinez saying our business would be done after the World Cup. You thought it was because he was taking the piss in Brazil, I thought it was because he wantttted to see what was happening with Lukaku.

Are you suggesting that Martinez planned nothing and waited till he came home from Brazil before organising our pre-season? I'm not convinced of that.

He's clearly got the view that a very light, insignificant pre-season is what's needed. I'm not sure, but we'll know soon.

My big concern is that our pre-season is a continuation of Martinez's philosophy of start slowly and get into the game. l'd rather we start fast on the front foot.

That to me is more important than Martinez being on the telly when everyone else in on holiday or also at the World Cup.

Raymond Fox
57 Posted 11/08/2014 at 20:52:16
Look, we have been here several times before, its not that we begrudge criticism if its valid.

Of course not, but when you Phil and you Darren are 99.9 critical considering the season we have just experienced during which you were constantly sniping even then!

It does smack of being sour grapes, because as of now your predictions of doom when Martinez was appointed are dramatically miles off target, but you seem determined not to accept at this point that you were both wrong.

Darren Hind
58 Posted 11/08/2014 at 21:02:16

As I suggested in my last post. I think i'ts up to the individual to decide whether or not Martinez's absence contributed to the poor performances in the fixtures that were hastily arranged on his return.

Perhaps he didn't realise just how much is expected of him and that nothing would be done in his absence. Perhaps when he got off on his jollies telling us the "recruitment dept" was on the case, he just hadn't realised that he IS the "recruitment dept"... who knows.

Nobody is saying the guy isn't entitled to his 2-3 weeks on a sun kissed beach, but the season finished 9 weeks ago... he's been back for three.

The suggestion that Martinez could have achieved as much in three weeks as he would have done in six is just plain illogical. So is the suggestion that he needed to be working for somebody else in order to see what was happening with Lukaku.

I'm not concerned about the start, I think the players are good enough to beat Leicester.

Darren Hind
59 Posted 11/08/2014 at 21:48:42

I have challenged you before to show me a post where I predicted anything at all about Martinez. You can't because I didn't

By constantly repeating this untruth, you confirm what I am saying. You can't answer the points, so you revert to making up points you think you can answer.

Won't wash, Mate.

Peter Z Jones
60 Posted 11/08/2014 at 22:11:58
Darren. All I said was not to panic after I highlighted all the great work our manager has done in a short time frame. "The sky is falling" comment wasn't directed at you specifically. I was mainly addressing the overly pessimistic place ToffeeWeb happens to be more often than not, and unjustifiably so. We've got articles about how Ross Barkley has been carried by the team and how he might not pan out being written before the season starts.

With regards to your preseason comments, yes we've largely been crap. I agree. However, we were similarly crap last season. Against top flight teams last year, we won against Real Betis (but were shocking in that game if I remember right), drew Juve, and lost to Real, Valencia, and Vienna Austria. This season it's a draw against Porto and then losses against Celta Vigo, SC Paderborn, and Leicester. Sure, these teams are of lesser quality, but the performances were just as crap and the results are nearly the exact same as before. Considering the 72 points in the prem that ensued after the previous crap performance, maybe we should be jumping for joy that we have been so bad in preseason this time around! As for the fixture planning, what would you have preferred us to do? Haven't we played as many games as time would permit after a World Cup, given how many first teamers we had participating?

Raymond Fox
61 Posted 11/08/2014 at 22:41:49
Darren, you haven't challenged me to find the posts, but that be as it may I'm not going to plough through all your posts pre season even if I knew how to access them. You are the one now inventing events to deflect attention away from the points I made.

What about the criticism of Martinez, how many of your posts have you given him any credit for his excellent first season, I cant remember many in fact I cant remember any!

This is my point I was making, you and Phil CONSTANTLY criticise Martinez, why is there never any credit given! You just undervalue your points by this blatant one way bias.

Darren Hind
62 Posted 11/08/2014 at 23:20:01

I have repeatedly challenged the untruth you keep posting about me predicting doom for Martinez, You have repeatedly ignored the challenge because you know you have made it up and can't back it up... I actually backed and predicted us to finish 4th; said so all season.

I've also backed and predicted us to finish 4th this coming season.
You on the other hand keep trying to talk our chances down and have predicted 7th... same as Phil.

Jamie Crowley
63 Posted 11/08/2014 at 23:00:27
Phil @54 - hilarious.

Darren -

I actually will try to drum up a few posts that I thought were incredibly negative considering the progress we’ve made this summer. They won’t be yours - in fact none of this, not a single bit, was ever directed at you personally. I can’t find the ones I’m thinking of at present. They were from a woman on another thread (Helen maybe). There were a few others I’d need to search for. My credibility may be suspect with you without actual copy-and -pasted quotes, but you’ll have to just trust me - they were there... I gotta find them. There’s been others not so over the top. Again I’ll try to find a few.

Look, I am of the opinion that the summer has been fantastic. As I stated, the contract extensions of our younger players securing their future was superb, Besic will be shown to be a massive signing and again in my opinion shouldn’t be trivialized with "we’ve only signed Besic" comments. Lukaku - that’s just huge. I don’t think anyone would argue that. So again, I see this summer as being wholly positive and the upcoming season to be excited about.

I have noticed a general trend in shall we say critical posts of Martinez and particularly this pre-season. I personally think it’s way over the top as the pre-season games count for ska-doosh. I do trust Roberto, believe he has a pre-season plan, and has executed that. In a World Cup year I think it’s prudent to take the pre-season games "lightly" and make sure our boys are rested and ready to go when it counts.

I DO INDEED take your point regarding some of your perceived shortcomings. I disagree, but understand your concern. IF we get tonked by Leicester City 3-0, then go on to drop the Arsenal and Chelsea games, I’ll be the first one to say you were correct. We weren’t ready, we didn’t prepare, and it bit us in the ass.

I just don’t think that’s going to happen and I think we’ve laid the foundations this pre-season for a squad that will be wonderful for the next 4-5 years to watch.

Finally, this isn’t a referendum on Roberto. I love the guy admittedly. But if he screws up I’ll be the first one to say he did. I just don’t think, with all that’s been accomplished recently, that criticism is warranted. We’ve done so much to secure our future the last 3 weeks or so it’s astounding.

I think maybe you and I need to have a beer or three with Harold Matthews...

Let’s see what happens come Saturday, and the few weeks beyond. My money is on positive results and we won’t be looking back angry at Roberto for not having us ready to go.

You did rhetorically ask:
do you really believe people making such a calm, rational, logical connection need to calm down or stop panicking?

Yes, I do. I don’t think your level of concern is warranted when you look at the landscape of what we’ve done.

Now that’s an opinion, not a criticism. And it’s not a love-in for Roberto either. I think he’s done splendidly but that doesn’t mean he shits gold bars. If my American brashness in writing "the sky is falling" took you back then please just consider the Yankee source. We’re not known for sugar-coating too much.

Finally, the contention that I feel as if everyone needs to fall in line with my opinion or way of thinking? - that’s just crap. If everyone posted, "Oh Jamie, what a piece you’ve penned! Please fly over to Blightly and sleep with my wife" I’d be flattered (and tempted...) but where’s the fun it that? It’s precisely being challenged and listening to counter arguments that hone your opinion and keep it broad. In fact, I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve been "enlightened" by reading these boards and as Phil Walling pointed out long may that continue.

But the assertion that I somehow suggested folks need to fall in line with my opinion is patently absurd.

In summary:
I think some folks are getting whipped up over nothing;

I think some folks are nit-picking;

I think we’ve had a wonderful summer with the signings and contract extensions;

I think we’ll be just fine come Saturday.

I think Roberto has a plan and has performed in a manner that we should, for the time being, trust him to execute that plan

I don’t think Roberto is Jesus...

Hope that very, very windy response clears this up.

I’ll look for the individual comments later and try to get back with some I found over the top. We can then dissect those damn things till we’re blue in the face if you like.

Last "lastly" -

You clearly want what’s best for Everton. That’s just clearly obvious. And to that end I raise my glass to you.

Jamie Crowley
64 Posted 12/08/2014 at 00:06:04
Could someone please direct me to the Brian Waring School for concise, intelligent posts?
Darren Hind
65 Posted 11/08/2014 at 23:55:46

Don't wory Mate, it's all about perception. Even if you did find posts you thought were over the top, I would probably see them as Fair points.

Glass raised to you too... decaf of course,

Raymond Fox
67 Posted 12/08/2014 at 09:19:58
Darren I like someone with an independent mind, I just think you over do it.

Stop doing what you wrongly accuse me of doing ie making up facts to deflect the points made.
I do remember you saying that you had backed us to finish 4th but I put it down to a smokescreen because you were getting hammered by lots of members for your constant negativity then as now.

Again when you say I predicted us to finish 7th, no I didn't what I actually said was if we don't get anymore buys or loans in before the window closes I think 5th to 7th is most likely, if we get 2 or more good/class players in 4th to 6th is possible.

Whatever Darren, I think we have done this to death and its time to call it a day.

Darren Hind
68 Posted 12/08/2014 at 21:12:09

My Toffeweb account is less than a year old. last season was well underway before I posted for the first time. That my friend is how I can prove you are making up your accusation. Any post your saw from me making prediction of doom when Martinez was appointed happened only in your head.

You say - " You say I predicted us to finish 7th, no I didnt" . . .Oh yes you did Raymond. Here's what you said - "The bookies who make impartial judgements agree with Phil & have us as 7th choice in the betting behind the usual suspects. I happen to agree 7th is our likely finishing position"

You see Phil I didnt make it up.

The thread is about overeaction and I stated that I believed the overeaction was from people who are determined to defend the manager "to the death " I also said that some people cant defend the actual criticism, so the make up stuff they feel they can defend.
Your current claim that "some of you are wanting to give him his P45" is a classic example.
Wherever did you see anybody calling for the managers to be sacked ? and if you didnt see it, why make such a claim ?

Sorry Raymond, but you are clearly overreacting, you are seeing posts that were never posted and denying statements that you know full well you have made

Nobody has called for Martinez's head, nobody has said he's a really shit manager, nobody has even said he isn't a nice guy. Martinez is the Everton manager, his actions,decisions and statements will be analysed and criticised Thats what footy supporters do.

You have to get past thinking this is some sort of plot to bring about a very painful end to Martinez Everton carreer .
. .Its just a footy debate

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

» Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.

About these ads

© ToffeeWeb

We use cookies to enhance your experience on ToffeeWeb and to enable certain features. By using the website you are consenting to our use of cookies in accordance with our cookie policy.