by   |   06/04/2017  101 Comments  [Jump to last]

I am just wondering if we have possibly jumped the gun on getting rid of Niasse.

I do not for one minute mean as a replacement for Lukaku, but is he any worse than Valencia or Kone as our back-up striker?

It appears that having been given a run at Hull he is certainly playing his part in their mini-revival.

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Mark Rimmer
1 Posted 06/04/2017 at 14:21:41
Niasse has virtually the same minutes per goal ratio as Lukaku, but Niasse has a much better shots on target percentage. Only Kane has a better minutes per goal ratio than these two. Surely Ron must be taking note of this.
Ajay Gopal
2 Posted 06/04/2017 at 17:59:58
Kudos to Niasse, for taking the insults that Everton threw at him on the chin. I don't think for a moment, Koeman will have him back, or indeed that he is good enough for Everton, but I do admire his character. He certainly seems better than Valencia and Dominic Calvert-Lewin. Good luck to him in the future.
Marc Carran
3 Posted 06/04/2017 at 20:22:06
I can't believe were still talking about Niasse...

1. He refused to go on loan before he went to Hull, many people seem to sweep this under the carpet or not know this at all.

2. Anyone can kick a ball into the net, but not everyone can score goals. This is true, but does that necessarily mean that...

3. Is he good enough for a Everton team? Hull are not Everton. While we aren't exactly playing consistent football, we still play a much quicker game, keep better possession, and the question is, could he keep up with that? Seeing his woeful first touch means that Hull will be obviously suiting to match his game, his game which would go nowhere in this current Everton squad.

To see how short sighted you can be, just look at the first two comments! First he is being compared to Rom, who we all know has parts of his game to improve on but comparing the two is laughable as is comparing him to Valencia who has been relegated as a sub for the last 20 minutes... then to top it off, we have Calvert-Lewin comparisons when we all know his career with the first team is just starting to kick off.

If football was such a simple game, you'd have some great points, but no, its not. The playing style of the team has to be looked at, so does the players overall ability, the amount of chances a team creates and how much they rely on one player etc.

Such a "great" character who refuses to go on loan, complains about having no locker to stick his Louis Vuitton wash bag in and goes to the media to complain about the problems and perils that he has.

I just wish that some folk would realise that scoring goals at a club battling relegation isn't a indicator of someone being a good footballer, neither does it prove he would suit a higher league team. For every Tim Cahill that proves themselves good enough to make a step up, there's a Oumar Niasse who is the main scorer in a poor side who is relying on his pace, and his pace only.

We had a similar player in Andy Johnson, I thought we moved on from him? He was a great tireless worker, but we relied on his pace, that was his main asset and he was out main threat and he suited the type of football we were playing at the time.

John Keating
5 Posted 06/04/2017 at 20:31:30

It might be advisable to read the article before you go off on one. First I never compared him to Lukaku, in fact I made the point that in no way did I expect him to replace Lukaku.

Secondly, nowhere in my post did I mention young Calvert-Lewin. I asked if Niasse was any worse than Valencia or Kone.

Obviously you are very anti Niasse, and that's fine as you are more than entitled to your opinion, however, I only put it out there as he appears to be contributing to Hull's resurgence; Valencia and Kone appear to do nothing at Everton.

Peter Warren
6 Posted 06/04/2017 at 21:46:16
Marc (#4) – Leicester showed last season (& last 6 of this) that football is a simple game. Play footy to your strengths, try your best and defend and attack as a team means you will do well. All the lower league teams show this in cup games every season too.

Simply try you're very best.

An example is Fabregas – what a player but struggles to get in best team in the league. Obviously the best team always beats the best individuals (except 86' Argentinian team). BTW we should try and sign Fabregas or player of his ilk to make next level.

Eugene Ruane
7 Posted 06/04/2017 at 21:57:34
Marc - He refused to go on loan beforehe went to Hull, many people seem to sweep this under the carpet or not know this at all.

Could you supply specific details of this including which team (or teams) he refused to go on loan to and what were the specific details of the deals he was being offered?

Please feel free to supply links that include quotes from the player or any relevant sources.

As for Niasse, pleased to see him looking like he's enjoying his football and I take my hat off to him for not whining and for making the best of things.

Certainly not saying 'we made a terrible mistake, should have kept him' but can't be easy to arrive at a new club/country and almost immediately be told 'we think you're not good enough, you can play with the kids or find another club.'

Martin Nicholls
8 Posted 06/04/2017 at 22:13:51
John (#5) – I suggest you read Marc's post before "going off on one"! He's responding to posts 1 & 2 by Mark and Ajay, not to anything you said.

For the record, I agree with Marc that Niasse is not good enough for EFC.

Gavin Johnson
9 Posted 06/04/2017 at 22:15:27
Hopefully we'll be able to do a straight swap for Harry Maguire and partner him with Michael Keane next season.
Ernie Baywood
10 Posted 06/04/2017 at 22:17:19
I thought Ron treated him pretty badly.
I thought Oumar dealt with the situation with some dignity - never publicly moaned.
I'm pleased to see him playing and scoring.
I still don't think he's good enough for us.

I don't see the Niasse situation as one where you need to take a side.

Dave Bowen
11 Posted 06/04/2017 at 22:17:36
Should Niasse have been dumped almost immediately? No. Is he worth 㾹.5m? No. He has pace, is a good finisher & sometimes has the touch of a baby elephant.

I would certainly rather have seen him come on against Man Utd than Calvert-Lewin. I'd rather have seen Valencia or Lookman or even Kone come on.

Personally, I think he's worth another chance but Koeman appears to have made his mind up. If so, time to move on.

Jeff Armstrong
12 Posted 06/04/2017 at 22:21:46
It says more about Koeman than Niasse if he doesn't take him back!
Chris Leyland
13 Posted 06/04/2017 at 22:31:45
Eugene (–); "but can't be easy to arrive at a new club/country and almost immediately be told 'we think you're not good enough, you can play with the kids or find another club.'"

I can think of 50,000 to 60,000 reasons a week that might just cushion the blow and make it slightly easier for the lad.

Trevor Peers
15 Posted 06/04/2017 at 22:59:56
Surely we should rejoice in the fact he's doing well because we will receive a decent fee for him. The manager decided to dump him and most of us agreed with him.

He's no where near good enough for the blues. He's slightly better than Kone, whose totally useless, probably one of the worst strikers to have played in the EPL, and we'll never get any cash back for him. Rubbertoe really stitched us up with both of them.

Andy Crooks
16 Posted 06/04/2017 at 23:07:47
Chris, in my view, our coach was unfair to Niasse and whether he earns 㿞k or whatever a week does not change that. I am glad he is doing well and, unlike Marc, I have never read or heard anything to suggest that he has not been dignified in his relations with our club.

I don't think it is fair to beat players with what they earn any time they displease us. They earn what they earn and if we think it is immoral then we should watch amateur football and stay way from Sky.

I hate the patronising way that the press give footballers wages as per week. Niasse did not force Everton to sign him. Good luck to him.

Barry McNally
17 Posted 06/04/2017 at 23:08:54
Kone was a hundred times better than Niasse before that injury although the person at Everton who allowed an automatic one year extension to his contract when he managed 35 appearances should be shot.
Oliver Molloy
18 Posted 06/04/2017 at 23:13:11
The manager laying down a marker in my opinion .

I have said this before , Niasse was described as clumsy in training, Lukaku said he was "raw" if I remember correctly.

It's very obvious Koeman didn't want the guy on his training pitch and we could argue all night about the pros and cons, but I don't think we will see him back at Everton.

Eddie Dunn
19 Posted 06/04/2017 at 23:18:37
Koeman is the coach. I would imagine that in his years in the game, he has a good idea of which player is likely to cut it at the top level. The fact that he decided that this guy was not what he wanted is up to Koeman – it doesn't mean the lad can't score goals for someone else.

I don't know what went on with Niasse, but good luck to the man at Hull. I am delighted that he has proved he can score goals in this league.

I wish him all the best except when he plays us.

Paul Holmes
20 Posted 06/04/2017 at 23:20:47
We should have kept Niasse because, unlike our forwards he knows how to score goals against Liverpool!

Which looking at our derby record at Anfield,no wins in 19 years,his direct style would have suited us on the counter attack, instead of players like Barkley who still think their playing football in the school yard, head down and running into blind alleys.

Bring him back and give him a chance next season because Valencia, Calvert-Lewin, Bolasie and Lookman up to now don't look permanent players for our 2018 season.

Gordon Crawford
21 Posted 06/04/2017 at 23:27:22
Please explain to me how Kone was a hundred times better than Niasse? That's just a ridiculous statement.

What chance did he get to prove he wasn't good enough for Everton? In my eyes he didn't get a chance. Plenty of worse players Niasse have played too many games for Everton.

And I have yet to read anything from Niasse to say that he wouldn't go out on loan. I think he deserves another chance, but he won't get it again.

Eugene Ruane
22 Posted 07/04/2017 at 00:34:50
Chri # 15, 'I can think of 50,000 to 60,000 reasons a week that might just cushion the blow and make it slightly easier for the lad.'

He guessed (or do you have a payslip to show us?).

So he earns a load of money, what a revelation, here's another - they all fucking do.

But here's another shocker for you, they're human beings too and so despite their money, emotionally they respond like the rest of us to disappointment.

Obviously when I say 'the rest of us', there's a kind of disappointed spectrum that sees different individuals react different ways.

At one end of the spectrum is the Niasse type who (seemingly) hides feelings, smiles, gets on with it and makes the best of a bad job.

At the other end is the angry TWer type, screams, makes shit up, lashes out, exhibits envy and can only see the world in black or white, incapable of seeing any grey.

John Daley
23 Posted 07/04/2017 at 00:38:11
Marc @3,

1) Why should he agree to go on loan anywhere if the club, country, or even just the colour of the shirt didn't suit?

Part of the reason Niasse sought a move to the Premier League was to be with his wife, so it's perfectly understandable he wasn't wanting to sling his hook to a club abroad after six months. 

As far as I recall, Crystal Palace were the only club, in this country, who were supposedly interested in the summer, when Everton tried to conveniently palm him off as part of the Bolasie deal. This was during a time when they were being hotly tipped to sign Benteke for a fee significant enough to suggest he would be a key player guaranteed a starting place. Why would Niasse (or anyone in his situation with a little nous) switch from one club where he's not getting a sniff to another club where he would, straightaway, be facing an uphill struggle to secure significant game time? 

Look at from his point of view: He only joined Everton in the transfer window just gone, had a bad banjo wrist and barely featured enough to show what he could do. Is it really that unbelievable, or unpalatable, that he didn't want to throw in the towel on his dream move a few months after walking through the fucking door and instead sought to stick at it, get his head down and try to chance the gaffer's mind by giving it his best in whatever standard of game he could get? 

2) "Anyone can kick a ball into the net, but not everyone can score goals"

That statement makes about as much sense as the one the amateur pilot/aviation snitch from the Paddock piped up with in court the other day, when asked to describe how low he thought the 'grabbing' daredevil paid to parade a "Bill's The Dogs Bollocks" banner over Goodison had descended in his plane.

"I initially thought it was under 500ft and considerably less than 500 feet"

3) "The playing style of the team has to be looked at, so does the players overall ability, the amount of chances a team creates and how much they rely on one player etc."

So, what is our (or rather Everton under Koeman's) playing 'style'? Some games it's 'press and punt', others it's a case of 'contain and counter-attack'. Going off the last two games alone, possession certainly isn't paramount to 'the plan', but extra pace up top would certainly have come in handy. We're heavily reliant on one man plundering the vast majority of goals with others popping up about as consistently as Cliff Richards cock. Another option who could find the back of the net more than once in a blue moon and provide direct running and unpredictability from the bench might just have come in useful at times this season. It certainly couldn't have hurt.

Regardless, we pretty much know how Niasse's 'welcome' return to Everton is going to play out in the summer:


Roman Sidey
24 Posted 07/04/2017 at 01:23:08
I can't believe he's worse than Kone, but that certainly doesn't mean he would be good enough for Everton. Kone is 33 and has played less than 400 matches in his career and 64 is the most he's played for any club. There is a reason for stats like that. He's shite.

A question I have (genuinely as I don't really know) is how many players have gone from the Russian league to England and flourished?

For the record, I actually like listening to Niasse when he's interviewed as I find him a lot more eloquent than most of the footballers these days who seem to think there is some currency in mumbling.

Gordon Crawford
25 Posted 07/04/2017 at 01:35:53
All I know is that if Everton don't want him, then I wish him all the happiness and good fortune in the world. Keep scoring the goals Niasse. :)
Mick Davies
26 Posted 07/04/2017 at 05:20:56
Marc @ 4.

2. Anyone can kick a ball into the net, but not everyone can score goals. This is true, but does that necessarily mean that...

Probably the most senseless statement I've read on TW. One thing I can say for Niasse: he's the only Everton striker to score against Liverpool this season, and the only one to score a winning goal against them for much too long.

Darryl Ritchie
27 Posted 07/04/2017 at 06:26:34
There's more to this than Niasse's talent, or lack of it.

I believe someone said, or did, something to someone about something, or someone, he shouldn't have, and it got the manager so pissed off, he banished Niasse from the team.

What with Niasse's run of form, it will be interesting to see what happens in the summer.

Dan Egerton
28 Posted 07/04/2017 at 06:40:17
I find it downright stupid, many of you claiming you know how well Niasse would play for us when you've never seen him play for Everton in a single PL game. Bizarre stuff.

I wasn't surprised he has done well at Hull with worse service than he would get in our team and thought it was disrespectful not to give him a locker or number. You don't know how well a player plays until you've seen him in a run of games, while match fit, in our team.

The same nonsense being sprouted about Niasse, was sprouted about the following players – Coleman (He cant defend!); Baines (too short lol); Osman (too small and weak lol); Jagielka (too slow, wound up being Everton's fastest player over 10 m not that long ago); Arteta (only a couple of million, must be crap); Naismith (Scottish players suck... blah blah blah blah).

Darren Hind
30 Posted 07/04/2017 at 07:07:30
He seems to be enjoying his football. Don't think anyone will begrudge him that.

Made up for him

Kieran Fitzgerald
31 Posted 07/04/2017 at 07:29:13
We have a striker registered with our club ho is showing himself to have the ability to score ten goals plus over the course of a season. He is doing so in a team that didn't have the full quota of players in their squad at the start of the season, have been battling relegation all season, and sold their best player, Jake Livermore, in the mid season transfer window.

Our current other options are a temperamental Lukaku who may be off in the summer, a loanee, Valencia, who is barely getting a game and has been written off by many on here, and a youngster, Lewin, who is very raw and has also been written off by many on here.

What is our reaction to this scoring striker? Automatically dismiss him as well. Only on ToffeeWeb.

Robert Leigh
32 Posted 07/04/2017 at 07:44:09
Lookman is ahead of him IMO, as he is ahead of DCL which is why it is so odd DCL is playing so many minutes ahead of him!
Colin Glassar
33 Posted 07/04/2017 at 08:08:13
Made up for the lad. Can we get £20m for him now?
James Stewart
34 Posted 07/04/2017 at 08:11:36
He is doing the business at Hull and has scored more than Barkley in substantially less game time. If we are in the Europa next season we need 3 senior strikers. I don't see why he can't be one of them.
Gordon Crawford
35 Posted 07/04/2017 at 09:01:57
Barkley is not a striker so he shouldn't even be compared to Niasse. Kone, Dominic, Valencia etc is where the comparisons should start and finish. Ross does get some unfair criticism.
Stan Schofield
36 Posted 07/04/2017 at 09:29:18
It's certainly possible we've jumped the gun in getting rid of Niasse. Koeman's comments earlier in the season were dismissive of Niasse, but that does not mean Niasse does not have the ability to be successful with Everton. The fact that Koeman saw him in training prior to making his comments about him, does not guarantee that the comments were correct. Niasse might or might not be good playing for Everton, we don't know, but it looks unlikely that he's as crap as many were making out at the start of the season, based on his performances for Hull. It's not easy to score goals in the Premier League, whoever you play for.
Paul Conway
37 Posted 07/04/2017 at 10:06:13
This affair has become a bit of an embarrassment for the Gaffer. Sometimes coaches make things personal with players and it comes back to bite them in the arse.

Take Morinho at Chelsea; He got rid of bundles of talented players and would probably have them back at Man Utd, but he is too proud to admit his errors. This actually shows how good, or, bad of a coach he is.

The curious case of Oumar Niasse is turning out to be curiouser and curiouser, as the season runs. He has answered his critics in a very noble manner. In actual fact, he is turning out to be the striker we can't afford to loose, given our current lack talent.

A huge majority on here, myself included couldn't wait to offload him, to use the funds to bolster the squad. It seems the £13 million or so we 'wasted' on him, doesn't look the colossal amount we thought we had thrown away, when you compare it to the £18 million Stoke paid for Imbola!

At least Niasse has made the effort and turned things around, and bravo, considering all the ridicule and derision. Maybe he won't return to us and be the player we need, but he is a glowing example of dignity and diligence.

James Stewart
38 Posted 07/04/2017 at 10:32:27
Gordon, that may be so, but Barkley plays in a front 3 or support role to Rom. Koeman publicly stated he has changed his role to take away any defensive responsibilities.

Kone played wide left more than he did up front for us, same with Niasse. Barkley should completely be judged on his goals/assists, that is all he is in the team for.

Kevin Gillen
39 Posted 07/04/2017 at 10:42:38
I live in and around Hull and work in the city. I also have season tickets at Goodison and have supported the Blues since the sixties.

I've talked with local fans about Niasse including the Chair of Hull Independent supporters Club, the chap who successfully organised the "No to the Tigers" campaign. They love Niasse. Yes he is raw and at times can't trap a bag of cement but runs, makes space for others, courage in putting a foot or head in in the box and find the net, they can't get enough of him. Good attitude and speaks humbly and intelligently to the press. He certainly has made a difference to their goals tally.

One supporter said that apparently Everton were interested in Hernandez, and the fans are of the opinion that you can have him as long as they keep Niasse. Niasse must have something to be voted the top player in the Russian League and I saw him start against Bournemouth I think last season.

He wasn't given a lot of time at Everton and you do wonder if there is something about his character that is at fault. I generally trust Koeman's judgement in assessing players, at times he has been ruthless, for example, Cleverley.

I suspect that Niasse is too erratic for Koeman and that in time Koeman might be proved right but all the same hats off to Niasse for doing everything he can to prove Koeman wrong and make a real contribution to Hull City's bid to stay in the Premier League, which under the stewardship of the Allams this year, would be quite something.

Eugene Ruane
40 Posted 07/04/2017 at 11:16:38
Kevin (#39) – 'They love Niasse. Yes he is raw and at times can't trap a bag of cement but run, make space for others.'

Given the modern game's love of a stat, I (seriously) think 'made space for' would be as legitimate as 'assist.'

If you're working your bollocks off and opening up space by keeping a defender (or two) busy, where's your stat? (scorer 1, assist 1, you fuck all).

After our game against Man Utd, I thought it was good of Mourinho to (positively) really 'go to bat for' Rashford.

"Marcus Rashford doesn't score goals since September (in the Premier League)] – the only thing he deserves is support. Nothing else. Support, no critics, support. He works, he works, he works. He tries, he plays through the middle, he goes to the left, he goes to the right, he tries, he tries, he tries. The kid is desperate. It's not a surprise for me – the second year not being as good as the first one. Maybe one day I will try to find out if it happened with Ryan Giggs or someone. They appear as a kid and then the next year it's not the same. But the kid is phenomenal – an amazing professional. So no problem. I told him – keep going."

As for Niasse being voted the top player in the Russian League, this might be entirely legitimate although there was a rumour (so possibly/probably bollocks) about the award being made by a magazine run or owned by his agent.

(I tried to follow this up but ended up going round in circles.)

Marc Carran
41 Posted 07/04/2017 at 11:34:14
If people followed up my 2nd point with my 3rd point (as the two are obviously linked), you will see that I am trying to explain that there is more to football then "he's scoring goals". He can't keep up with the pace, playing style and the possessive football that we are aiming for. Simply put, his first touch is not good enough.

If goals are the only measurement of football, then, I've seen plenty of lads bang them in for Sunday League teams. Naturally they might make the step up to a semi-professional side to see if they can cope. Some may make a even further or make a bigger jump, still the point is they are all being tested to see if they can cope, find their level and perform the same goalscoring feats in a different league. There's a lot more to "banging them in" then meets the eye.

John, yes it was Crystal Palace where he refused to go on loan. Poor him! A player who says he's willing to prove himself refuses to go on loan. He's done no whining apart from complaining he has no locker to store his Louis Vuitton wash bag, eh?

Now, again, people are comparing him to Barkley! Apart from the two playing different positions, this is were my first point comes through. Under the Moyes regime, we didn't exactly play the best football, but if we did, we had Andy Johnson's pace helping stretch the defence. Part of it being the ability of the player, part of it being the ability of the squad to be able to give him the ball.
When a better footballer such as Yakubu came in, he held up the ball, he scored better on one-on-one situations and quite simply, we played better football and he scored more goals. His goalscoring ability was based on other particular traits that he had.

If football was such a simple game as you suggest, Peter, it's quite worthy that you mention Leicester who won the league and aren't doing so well this season, bit of an oxymoron, eh?

Put it simply, Niasse is not good enough for Everton. He would have more possession and more chances to deal with at Everton and his first touch is indeed woeful. He cannot hold up the ball, and while we at least create what, I would imagine, twice as many goalscoring chances here, anything but a through-ball on goal I wouldn't put it past him to score. He is very one-dimensional.

Eugene Ruane
42 Posted 07/04/2017 at 12:06:58
Marc, re your 'point' 1 – He refused to go on loan before he went to Hull, many people seem to sweep this under the carpet or not know this at all.

I repeat – Could you supply specific details of this including which team (or teams) he (definitely) refused to go on loan to and what were the specific details of the deals he was being offered?

Please feel free to supply links that include quotes from the player and/or any relevant sources.

I'm not (yet) saying you were simply repeating third-hand rumour and unsubstantiated online rants from the hopelessly uninformed and angry, but obviously will need to see evidence before being able to dismiss the possibility.

As for – I was trying to explain that there is more to football then "he's scoring goals".

Well done, you are undoubtedly a teacher of men.

Alan J Thompson
43 Posted 07/04/2017 at 12:43:52
Has he got any ambition, I mean, does he want to go to a Champions League club?
Raymond Fox
44 Posted 07/04/2017 at 12:55:55
Plenty of nonsensical statements in the thread, most made by Marc.

Good luck to Niasse, he got on with it after Koeman publically humiliated him. What a stupid way for a manager to deal with a player, Koeman should have got a rocket from the owners of our club, maybe he did – he certainly deserved one.

When comparing players, is it necessary to call some as shite, clown etc, after seeing them on the field of play, bugger all length of time? I see young Calvert-Lewin is coming under attack already, its pathetic.

Gordon Crawford
45 Posted 07/04/2017 at 13:40:48
It is pathetic, Raymond, that young Dom is being touted as being not up to the job.

Managers should not publicly hang any player out to dry. I mean Jose hung Shaw out to dry the other day. It stinks of unprofessionalism.

I hope Niasse all the best. :)

John Daley
46 Posted 07/04/2017 at 13:49:51
Marc @41,

Following on from Eugene's request for further elaboration:

Could you possibly supply us with a few details about how you know Niasse has a 'Louis Vuitton wash bag'?

Have you seen it in his hand? 

Is it a proper twattish, showboating, toiletries stasher with an oversized logo slapped right across it, or a simple, sophisticated one with just a little leather label saying 'L.V.' sewn in the bottom right hand corner?

Did he buy it or was it a gift (perhaps a treasured signing sweetener from Señor Martinez to show how welcome he would soon feel in his new surroundings)? 

If he does indeed own such a wash bag and takes it along prior to giving his gouch a good scrub, why on earth would it get to you so? (y'know, seeing as though it was of such significance you mentioned it in two separate posts).

How does lobbing his Lynx into a 'Louis Vuitton' automatically lead to him being a bad lad and scream loudly to the world: "Liberty taking, whinging, wanker!" (Showy toiletry bag = must be a scumbag?)

What if, next season, a hand is seen reaching for said wash bag from one of the shower cubicles at Finch Farm, followed by a fucking full-on Bobby Ewing moment with a miraculously back-from-the-dead Niasse stepping out, stark bollockso, before drying himself down and donning a royal blue shirt with his name and an actual number on the back? What would be the appropriate reaction then? Would you be cheering his name or still chastising him for his choice of bag?


'At least have the decency to chuck it in a Co-op carrier before daring to whine about being given another chance!'.

Dave Ganley
47 Posted 07/04/2017 at 15:31:20
Good luck to the lad. Don't begrudge him any kind of success elsewhere. When he went there weren't many sad to see him go. Is he any worse than Kone? Probably about the same I would guess, personally I don't think either are good enough for us.

I'm glad he's doing well, there's not many ex-Everton players I want to see fail, but imo it's better for all parties to go their separate ways. In no way do I want Niasse back for next season. We have to aim higher.

Dave Bowen
48 Posted 07/04/2017 at 16:45:37
Hopefully, in the next few seasons, both Calvert-Lewin & Lookman will become EFC legends. At the moment neither of them look ready for the Premier League.

I would argue Niasse is better than all these. I know his 1st touch isn't the best, but 1 of the main criticisms of Lukaku is his 1st touch. He's worked hard to improve it although there are still matches where the ball still bounces off him. Niasse can do the same.

There may be other reasons Koeman bombed him out, we'll probably never know. I'd certainly like him back if only for the Europa League. Rom, if he stays, can't play every game.

Marc Carran
49 Posted 07/04/2017 at 16:53:27
Eugene – The sediments of the comment section is "he scores goals" and that's apparently enough to warrant a chance to see him back in the Blue shirt again.

Since you find my comment so amusing then I take it you must be on the side of "he scores goals" and if that's how you feel and that's what you believe then so be it, we'll have to agree to disagree. Obviously you haven't read my post in full.

Since he rejected the loan, the deal there is going to me no official quote on the official site, but I shouldn't have to teach or remind you about Google

Raymond – Congratulations on calling someone nonsensical without the effort to even make a comment. We need more folk like you to keep the debate so interesting and engaging...

John – Thank you for your response, although you didn't have to really seek childish attention by making 4 paragraphs of wash bag jokes!

You asked why I feel he has been a bit twattish? Again, I have already said it, refusing to go on loan and complaining about having no locker. It's nothing to do with owning a designer wash bag at all, that was just part and parcel of the scenario. Do you really think it was worthwhile him going to the media and complaining that he didn't have a locker?

Again, if that's your opinion then we'll agree to disagree. But it looks like you missed out my main points as you were too busy point scoring because I have a different opinion.

Last but not least, I urge people to go and see his stats. His pass completion, how often he loses possession etc ,and you might see were I'm coming from, that's if you want to bother looking at the stats instead of resorting to 6 chapters of insults and one-line quips despite you haven't read my post properly.

Dermot Byrne
50 Posted 07/04/2017 at 17:01:03
Gritty first line, Mark!
Alexander Murphy
51 Posted 07/04/2017 at 17:14:34
We need them to want him big time and we charge them full whack, or, we do a U-turn and he does the business for us.

The one thing that we do not want is for Hull to say, "You can have this donkey back, he's shite!"

Agreed, he did look gash in pre-season, but personally, I believe that there is an unseen chapter to this story.

James Hughes
52 Posted 07/04/2017 at 17:54:05
Marc - Now while this article doesn't mention specific offers it mentions he refuses to go out on loan

Ronald Koeman has made it clear there is no way back for Oumar Niasse at Everton.

The Senegal striker was signed by former Toffees boss Roberto Martinez in a 㾹.5m deal at the start of the year. He failed to make an impact under Martinez last season and was told he could leave Goodison Park in the summer following Koeman's arrival as manager.

But Niasse shunned the chance to move on and has been training away from the first-team squad this season.


James Hughes
53 Posted 07/04/2017 at 17:58:53
Marc, some other knob-head was asking for proof of his payslip:

The Guardian are reporting a deal has been agreed which will see the Everton striker loaned out to the KCOM Stadium, where the Tigers will pay Niasse his full 㿣,000-a-week wage, with no contributions at all from his parent club.


David Midgley
54 Posted 07/04/2017 at 18:20:00
Louis Vuitton – is this a douche bag?
Paul Ferry
55 Posted 07/04/2017 at 19:11:36
Complaining about not having a locker is 'twattish'?

John Daley
56 Posted 07/04/2017 at 19:41:21
" it looks like you missed out my main points as you were too busy point scoring because I have different opinion"

Err...yeah. It would of course look like that if you just totally neglected the fact I addressed your other points in my first post at #23. The one in which I tried to point out why, possibly due to domestic situation and determination to at least attempt to make a go of things, a freshly arrived footballer to these shores might opt not to go on loan at the first push (as is his right).

I considered your contention that he doesn't, and never could, suit our current style of 'fast-paced, possession play' (after lifting my jaw back into place), further pointing out we don't really play like that, often set out to close down, counter and hit teams on the break, before then suggesting how a bloke with pace willing to run his bollocks off and able to bag a few goals might possibly have come in handy under such circumstances.

I even saved you a job by identifying the fucking team who were supposedly interested in the summer.

What I got in response was: "Poor him! A player who says he's willing to prove himself refuses to go on loan. He's done no whining apart from complaining he has no locker to store his Louis Vuitton wash bag, eh?".

As that was the second time you chose to aim a (totally not 'childish' at all) shot at the little toiletries transporter he takes to the shower with him, I thought it perfectly reasonable to presume this must be a really key point for you, so wanted to delve further into the implications, ramifications and really-who-gives-a-fuck-edness of such a dastardly washroom faux-pas.

"Read my post properly" my arse.

Colin Glassar
57 Posted 07/04/2017 at 19:46:09
I wonder if Calvert-Lewin was thrown on against the Mancs by Ron to make a point to the board... ie, "Look what I've got to work with? Look at my bench etc."

Just a thought.

Jeff Armstrong
58 Posted 07/04/2017 at 20:06:47
Oumar Niasse has a fucking Lynx!!!! Is there a Link (smart arse blue) of him strutting around Hull with it?
Terry Farrell
59 Posted 07/04/2017 at 20:14:57
I'm glad he is welcomed at Hull and appreciated. I have watched him closely for them and he is a proper goal scorer. He makes the right runs to get on the end of things and he can finish. He is quick and brave. Good luck to him and yes he is better than Kone who is not a clinical finisher.

That said, Koeman has seen enough pros in his time to recognise the required level of player we need and, whilst he will get some wrong, we have to trust him and back him... or else, what is the point?

Darren Hind
60 Posted 07/04/2017 at 20:28:50
Rhino worked with Calvert-Lewin in his younger days, he was impressed enough to urge Koeman into signing him.

Koeman has obviously seen what Rhino saw.

The kids been played slightly out of position and he's proper been thrown in at the deep end.

Let's allow him to find his feet. They clearly rate him.

Andrew Presly
61 Posted 07/04/2017 at 20:31:26
No. Neeeeext!
Eugene Ruane
62 Posted 07/04/2017 at 20:32:26
Marc Carran opens a bottle of Champagne using instructions given to him by James Hughes Link

Done here, I know when I'm beaten (ie: when I feel like it'd be easier to explain Pythagorus theorem to cheese).

Chris Corn
63 Posted 07/04/2017 at 20:38:51
Colin 57, why always does there always have to be a conspiracy theory?! Maybe the manager just rates the lad and felt he could do a job. He was manager when we bought him wasn't he?! so he must see something in him.
Dick Fearon
64 Posted 07/04/2017 at 20:51:55
I'm all for allowing Calvert-Lewin time to develop but please let's not start a decade long debate on what is his best position. We went through that with Osman and it was never decided.
Marc Carran
65 Posted 07/04/2017 at 21:37:02
John – I mentioned "Louis Vuitton washbag" a few times, unlike yourself who decided to write 4 paragraphs on the subject. I'm all up for satireness but not 4 paragraphs.

I never said it was a key point, I said it was part and parcel of a likelihood scenario. I addressed all the other points and why I disapprove of him.

Yes, it is his right to refuse a loan, but that doesn't make it morally right does it?

We might not be in the most consistent form, but its laughable that you say that we don't aim for high possession! Our possession rates have been above 60% at least this season, that must be nearly double of what we had under Martinez.

You mentioned his pace, again, the same thing I have said throughout the comment section is that he doesn't have the other attributes needed to fit in with the squad.

So I've mentioned he lacks the full attributes, and I've mentioned he doesn't and won't fit in the team, what more do you want me to say? You telling me that he is a pace merchant, the exact same reason why I said he's not good enough!

Now you're telling me that a pace merchant could still be useful to have in the team? That's far from the subject I was talking about. I'm talking about his ability and the level of football that we play.

Eugene РIf you have nothing good to say then why bother saying it? Clich̩, yes, but some of us are here to discuss and not score points and not look cool on the internet. Please don't spoil it for the rest of us, I hope to god that this place doesn't get ruined by users acting like selfie taking 14-year-olds.

There's nothing worse than someone calling you out as way off the mark but then shies away from a decent response or from sharing their own opinion. Followed by another cliché along the lines of someone being too stupid to bother responding which is a typical cop out answer.

Andy Crooks
66 Posted 07/04/2017 at 21:48:49
Marc, let it go. You are not up for"satireness", You made your point, fair play to you, but in my view it has been batted out of the ground.
Dan Davies
67 Posted 07/04/2017 at 21:56:18
Marc, chill out mate. Bit of advice for you to take forward – both John and Eugene are what I would call 'switched on'. You'd be having an inspired day to match them. Stop digging! Lol.
Mick Davies
69 Posted 07/04/2017 at 22:22:37
John @ 46, just love that post... brought on a touch of incontinence like, but what a read!!!!

Marc, if you keep digging, we could be seeing the third Mersey Tunnel.

Jay Harris
70 Posted 07/04/2017 at 22:37:27
If we could take a step back and remind ourselves that it was in fact Martinez who isolated him after he got some game time and fell over the ball and generally looked like a huge mistake.

Being top scorer in the Russian league means nothing as our previous buy from there will show you.

I get the impression that someone upstairs made the decision and Koeman was left to deal with it in the only way he knows how which is "My way or the highway" and then allegedly when a loan/ move away was suggested his GF told him to stay where he was so he could see her so I gyess Ron lost it a bit and told him to train with the kids.

I hope it works out for the lad at Hull but I do believe we should be setting our sights higher than Niasse even as a squad player.

Terry Underwood
71 Posted 07/04/2017 at 23:05:09
I would have him back and look at him in the pre season. He is getting game time and scoring goals WTF do you want?
Eugene Ruane
72 Posted 07/04/2017 at 23:07:36
Marc - 'Eugene - If you have nothing good to say then why bother saying it? Cliché, yes, but some of us are here to discuss and not score points and not look cool on the internet. Please don't spoil it for the rest of us, I hope to god that this place doesn't get ruined by users acting like selfie taking 14 years olds. There's nothing worse than someone calling you out as way off the mark but then shies away from a decent response or from sharing their own opinion. Followed by another cliché along the lines of someone being too stupid to bother responding which is a typical cop out answer.'

Don't you mean 'Some of us are here to post hearsay and gossip as fact, then get eggy when pulled up on it.'?

Jesus, ok, never let it be said, etc

In post 3 you stated - '1. He refused to go on loan before he went to Hull, many people seem to sweep this under the carpet or not know this at all.

These are your words - agreed?

I challenged this 'point' (and only this point) and challenged you to back up what you had clearly posted as a statement of fact.

Remember my response..

'Could you supply specific details of this including which team (or teams) he refused to go on loan to and what were the specific details of the deals he was being offered? Please feel free to supply links that include quotes from the player or any relevant sources.

Now this (and only this) is what I challenged and what you (twice) failed to respond to.

Want to try again?

Fine but keep in mind I don't give a fuck about what you do or don't think about him as a player (which is why I didn't question anything other than your point 1).

So let's have it, not guesswork, not your opinion, statements of fact that show, without doubt, that Niasse 'refused to go on loan.'

And just to be crystal fucking clear, newspaper reports stating he's 'thought to have said..' or 'rumoured to have stated..' etc will not be accepted.

Marc Carran
73 Posted 07/04/2017 at 23:49:15
Andy, I have nothing against satireness, I am however against childishness and point scoring.

Dan – Your description of "switched on" seems to whoever can come up with the wittiest and funniest "bantz" or who can come up with the most point scoring to big up their internet ego. I have no problem with liking a particular posters writing style but I do have a problem of people belittling other people's opinions for the sake of it.

Eugene – I did say before that I am never going to be able to give concrete evidence of him going on loan. That wasn't your only point, you made a quip about me saying that there is more to football then just "he scores goals" which was the whole point of my very first post!

For someone who "doesn't give a shit what you think" you did respond to my original question and I made plenty of other points apart from the loan deal talk that you seemed to of ignored too.

So... anyway, have a good weekend guys, whatever you're doing, and I do hope to visit and comment more often, that's if the belittling doesn't get too out of hand which I think would spoil it for us all.

John Daley
74 Posted 08/04/2017 at 00:39:29
A descriptivist lexicographer suddenly gets a semi lob on during a late night scan through ToffeeWeb:

"Satireness"!! Appearing three times on the one thread? I've really got to get this down":


Shortened form of 'satire', more socially acceptable and packing more sting than the former, by virtue of not straying beyond three paragraphs... because, well, four is just fucking pushing it.

Origin: From French, or the Latin 'Satira', subsequently filtered through Carran cranium and crapped back out again.

Pronunciation: SAT-IRE-NIASSE

Meanwhile, his more prescriptivist partner leaks piss down her leg, before getting back to looking for her own birthday gift on the internet: "There's no way you're getting away with buying me a bastard 'George' handbag now you tight git. Not after the subliminal messages that Marc Carran and his scumbag mate the satirenessist have been sending out. It's a 'Louis V' for me this year, or it's a Locked V for you ALL year. Take your pick!"

Loko Sanchez
75 Posted 08/04/2017 at 01:20:21
Let us read the following statistics of Player X:

4 Premier League Goals (including 1 aginst Liverpool) - 5 starts and 5 substitute appearances.

1 League Cup Goal against Manchester United.

7 goals for Everton Under 23s

By just analysing the above, we could say Player X is a decent signing.

John Pierce
76 Posted 08/04/2017 at 02:47:30
We've already got one centre forward who can't trap a bag of cement. If Niasse comes back, that will be two of them – what chance have we to build anything?!
Eugene Ruane
77 Posted 08/04/2017 at 09:10:29
Christ almighty, I tried, I really tried.

I often wondered where the wandering tribes of Bluekipper would end up.

This is now very clear.

Maybe a junior ToffeeWeb might be the answer?

Dave Abrahams
78 Posted 08/04/2017 at 09:26:13
I think like a lot of fans on here I would love to know the full story of how Niasse was scouted and signed, there is an awful lot to this story which none of us knows about.

In the end, Niasse doesn't appear a good signing, for the fee paid, but not as useless as previously thought. Hopefully if he bags a few more goals we might get a lot of the money we paid for him back.

Dan Egerton
79 Posted 08/04/2017 at 10:26:34
My understanding is that this was how it went.

1) Lacking match fitness, Koeman possibly unfairly judged Niasse to be not good enough. Rudely didn't give him a locker or squad number (he later got a number).

Marc reckons he was offered to go on loan to Southampton. This simply didn't happen; Marc hasn't posted evidence. If it did, it's possible that Niasse politely turned it down to fight for his spot at our club.

Any player would do the same. They are allowed to do that and frankly I agree with him. He was bought by an ex-coach and the new coach has pre-judged him without seeing him get a run of games in our club. Not his fault. He chose to prove the coach wrong – that's the type of attitude I want in an Everton player.

2. Koeman said, "You won't play for Everton." Orders him to go on loan to Hull. Niasse agrees.

3. Niasse has been a gallant polite professional in all interviews I've seen. Nothing negative to Everton at all and he looks to just get on with the job, which backs up the thought that he wanted to fight for his spot in our team.

4. He's scored 4 goals from 5 starts (and 5 sub) appearances. He has not gone public to say "I told you so" to Koeman or Everton. He's just knuckled down and did what every lunatic football fan wants players to do – stop talking about money and complaining, and just do your job.

Even when a player does that, he gets attacked. Ridiculous behavior and unfair.

Dan Egerton
81 Posted 08/04/2017 at 11:39:51
Well Marc when you make borderline stupid comments, you attract all sorts of replies.

1. He refused to go on loan before he went to Hull, many people seem to sweep this under the carpet or not know this at all.
So far only papertalk, no quote, interview, proof provided. Niasse went on loan to Hull willingly, he didn't refuse. This would suggest he was open to a loan move.

2. Anyone can kick a ball into the net, but not everyone can score goals. This is true, but does that necessarily mean that...

That's going into the Darwin awards time capsule.

3. Is he good enough for a Everton team? Hull are not Everton.

No they are not. And we'll never know Niasse's worth to us without these things happening at once, Him being match fit, playing for us, in a run of games. That's the only way to know for sure.

Stan Schofield
82 Posted 08/04/2017 at 14:24:33
I've never seen any concrete evidence that Niasse can't trap a bag of cement.
Alan J Thompson
83 Posted 08/04/2017 at 17:00:42
Marc (#65);

"Yes, it is his right to refuse a loan, but that doesn't make it morally right, does it?"

Don't know where that leaves Everton in this matter but Niasse seems to have handled the situation in a much more dignified manner.

Brent Stephens
84 Posted 08/04/2017 at 17:07:13
Oh, Stan. I'm mortarfied at that joke.
Stan Schofield
85 Posted 08/04/2017 at 19:31:34
Brent, either that will make us equal, or one of us will win on aggregate.
Brent Stephens
86 Posted 08/04/2017 at 19:33:54
Can't beat that, Stan! You win. Render to Stan, the things that are Stan's.
Jim Hardin
87 Posted 08/04/2017 at 19:44:28

Maybe it is appropriate to compare Barkley to strikers who have not been around long and maybe do not start regularly as his goals total and his other stats are not so embarrassing for him.

If you compare him to players in the same position, (Sigurdsson, Alli, Eriksen, Mata, Son (a MF/F), Fabregas, Coutinho). his stats are shockingly worse His stats are more comparable to midfielders (Arter) who play in teams below us, including relegation teams, which seems to be one poster's standard for not allowing a player on the squad at all.


As for Niasse, he does look awkward but when you actually watch him play over several games, you start to realize he does have pace, and power, and actually does have a good touch on him most of the time. The awkwardness is part of him, just like Crouch, but can you actually say that when he does the same touches and moves over and over successfully that they are all flukes or lucky?

Why can't he be brought back in the off-season and be given a real look-at by RK now that he is match-fit? What harm would it do?

John Audsley
88 Posted 08/04/2017 at 21:58:21
Enjoyed this thread very much and not for the Niasse information but purely for the sarcasm.

Niasse one, chaps!!!

Nicholas Ryan
89 Posted 09/04/2017 at 01:11:44
Niasse appears to be doing well, lately, and good luck to him; but let's remember, that Martinez didn't want him anywhere near a football pitch either, so two managers, with completely different playing philosophies, have decided that he simply wasn't up to it.
Roman Sidey
90 Posted 09/04/2017 at 03:14:05
John Pierce, at least with squad rotation we'd have some consistency. Good form on the concrete puns, lads.
Brent Stephens
91 Posted 09/04/2017 at 07:58:01
Roman, "form"! Pay that. Glad your feeling the good vibrations. Some would be tamping.
Mick Davies
92 Posted 10/04/2017 at 03:04:36
Dan Egerton, to quote David Byrne: 'Stop Making Sense' ... you know some on here don't like that sort of thing
Martin O'Connor
93 Posted 10/04/2017 at 04:05:27
No, only seen highlights of him at Hull, might have scored a few goals, a goal against the Red Shite, forever grateful, but he has missed some sitters and his first touch is non-existent. I wish him well, but he's not good enough for us.
Craig Walker
94 Posted 10/04/2017 at 11:34:46
Fair play to Niasse. He scored against the RS. Something none of our other forwards have managed this season. We might get a decent fee for him now, not something I envisaged when he was training with the U23s without a locker.
Peter Bradshaw
95 Posted 12/04/2017 at 04:23:48
OMG! – as the brainless brigade say today! This is obviously coming from the same camp that believe that Maguire would be a great signing for Everton from Hull.

Guys, we are shopping in different stores now, looking at a higher level, Niasse is terrible for us and not good enough, it's like saying Chris Wood from Leeds would be a good signing, he is also terrible...

Can we let these utter gash players just go and move forward like the club want and it seems some supporters don't

This summer, we will sign Rooney, Keane, Schmichel and Tielimans and keep hold of Lukaku.

There is also an outside chance of Van Dijk, and hoping for Trippier as back-up from Seamus, not Martina from Southampton

Gary Russell
96 Posted 12/04/2017 at 04:57:54
Peter @95... I, as someone who suggested Chris Woods might be a good signing, seeing as he is top scorer on 24 goals in the league below, I disagree with your comment, and suggest 'terrible' he is not.

'its like saying Chris Wood from Leeds would be a good signing, he is also terrible...'

I would go so far as calling your comment 'brainless.'

I do agree we with the notion we may be able to shop at Harrods now, instead of Sainsbury's, but the board have yet to prove this is the case.

Peter Bradshaw
97 Posted 12/04/2017 at 05:26:04
Gary Russell #96 Talk to Leeds fans, I know "lots" a speak of their opinion of him, they are all hoping for the "blind" premier league club who goes in for him and pays in excess of $25million, in Yorkshire every limb in their bodies are crossed in hope.

One swallow does make a summer, one good season doesn't make a premier league player, first touch = brick wall

I really hope you are a million miles from the scouting team, as I suggest was the people who watched Niasse .

Gary Russell
98 Posted 12/04/2017 at 06:20:39
Difference of opinion Peter, but terrible players don't score 20 + goals is the point I was making. From what you say, some Leeds and Everton fans have something in common, hoping to see the back of their teams and their leagues top scorer.

I guess you 'are' part of the scouting team seeing as you said, 'This summer we will sign Rooney, Keane, Schmichel and Tielimans and keep hold of Lukaku.'

Eric Myles
99 Posted 12/04/2017 at 06:40:33
Eugene (#72), this quote from Ronald Koeman should make you happy:

"There was some interest in him but not the interest that he liked to have. It is all up to the player whether he doesn't leave, I can't understand it , but that is normal."

Chris Leyland
100 Posted 12/04/2017 at 09:27:17
Eric (#99) of course this quote from Koeman won't make Eugene 'happy'

For information, this direct quote from Koeman were reported in the Liverpool Echo on 22nd September 2016 and ToffeeWeb ran an article about it on the same day. In this quote, the manager stated that there was interest from other clubs but the player wasn't interested.

However, Eugene has demanded specifics i.e. he needs people to provide exact details of the clubs Niasse had the chance to join, the exact terms of any deals and what locker number Niasse was being offered at these clubs etc, etc.

Amit Vithlani
101 Posted 12/04/2017 at 10:56:09
All Koeman's comments served, in my eyes, was to betray his annoyance towards Niasse for not leaving the club in the summer window (particularly the "I can't understand it" part).

This is then perplexingly follow by a statement saying "that's normal" (which reads like its normal he doesn't understand stuff). It could also be that its normal for a player to stay despite the interest.

Whatever the case, I didnt read that comment as saying there was a good opportunity for Niasse and he chose to sit on his backside Winston Bogarde style.

The part about "there was interest he didn't like to have" is not exactly definitive on Niasse's motives for staying. If Niasse was offered a loan contract to be a reserve at Palace, or as a regular in Turkey (away from his wife/girlfriend) then it may have been obvious why he knocked back the interest.

There is a decent Premier League player in him but back to the OP, he is in no way replacement for Lukaku.

Gareth Clark
102 Posted 12/04/2017 at 16:11:34
I like Niasse – and I think he could do a job for Everton, replacing Valencia for next season.

To be clear – he is not a replacement for Rom – we would need to replace him with a proper #9.

However, I don't think Koeman will have him back, and I don't know if Niasse would want to come back at all, let alone come back and sit bench.

If we can get 㾻 mil for him, I'd be happy to let him go & give him the best of luck!

Use the money to invest on an up & coming striker, preferably with Prem experience.

Batshauyi, Iheanacho, Janssen & Perez (obviously a little older) would be who I want to get in!

Andy Crooks
103 Posted 12/04/2017 at 21:39:53
Peter (#95),

Van Dijk will be for sale at a huge price, beyond what I expect we will pay. Now, Koeman might have some leverage in attracting him but I doubt it. It seems to me that he would be a good signing but he is a stopper, in my view, and little else.

We sold the admirable Stones and I would not consider Van Dijk to be anything like a replacement. Maguire seems to me to offer good value if linked to Niasse. What is your concern about this?

Ian Bennett
104 Posted 13/04/2017 at 12:26:33
If we can get 㾻m for him, that would be a hell of a save from last season. Last season, he looked like an enthusiastic fan rather than a Premier League striker.
Tim Spring
105 Posted 13/04/2017 at 19:17:47
How have there been 99 comments on this topic?!

Niasse was the single worst player to don the royal blue shirt last season, in a league campaign that included Kone, Darron Gibson and a version of Pienaar stuck together with super glue.

Moshiri didn't come here to equip Koeman with players of Niasse's ilk. Fair play to the guy, he's gone to Hull and scored a few, but even there his touch has been worse than appalling and his footballing ability is limited to running in a straight line and kicking with his eyes closed.

I wouldn't care if he scored 10 more this season, he's not good enough to take Everton forward. We should be thankful the 㾹.5 million fee will not cause us huge problems if we don't get most of it back.

Get rid, park it under another Martinez masterstroke and move on.

Clive Rogers
106 Posted 16/04/2017 at 12:22:03
Niasse apparently had a really poor game yesterday.

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