Fresh start?

by   |   14/09/2017  47 Comments  [Jump to last]

Firstly, I'm not going slate the manager, players, board or anyone connected with Everton regarding our recent "displays" – that's been done to death by me and by many others now.

Sometimes, a manager – for whatever reason – just doesn't fit a certain club. They could have great reputation, a great CV, or a great record at winning them shinny things that seem to elude every manager at our club since 1995. But sometimes, it just does not work.

When I think back over the years of being an Everton fan, two things spring to mind. We were always very hard to beat and very well organised. That always sticks out for me; that is what Everton is about – we roll over for no one!!!! Basics, the very simple basics is what we are lacking at the minute. We have to be hard to beat, we have to be in your face, aggressive, passionate. That's the basics. And the rest will follow. So the point of this is a fresh start; back to basics.

So when Koeman's gone, the fresh start begins. Who's the gaffer that will "at least" offer the above? For me, it's Unsworth to the end of the season. Further down the line... maybe a Dyche or big Sam. Bear in mind this is short term, a steady-the-ship, back-to-basics appointment.

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Brian Williams
1 Posted 14/09/2017 at 22:44:37
Unsy in as interim manager as I don't think be could possibly do worse, and bin Koeman before it's too late.

Look high and low for a charismatic, positive, outgoing, upbeat manager who players will go the extra mile for.

Michael Kenrick
2 Posted 14/09/2017 at 22:49:00
A little premature, Peter. Yes, lots of people saying the same thing – since Saturday's equally dismal Spurs display. But I really can't see Everton sacking Koeman rather than letting him actually bed in all the new players they have provided for him, see if he can get them to gel, get them playing better football together.

I could be wrong and perhaps the fan reaction will be strong enough, Koeman will walk before he's pushed – that would give you the fresh start, perhaps. But wouldn't he walk away from millions in compensation? Nah... neva gonna happen.

Steve Ferns
3 Posted 14/09/2017 at 22:58:59
Fresh? Dyche or Big Sam? More like tired and old.

If you want aggression, in your face, don't roll over, and good old fashioned Everton style attacking, then it has to be Bielsa.

El Loco could work with the squad we have. They are set up for pressing. Koeman just isn't getting them to press. I bet Bielsa could sort Barkley out and get him back into the side as the main man in his formation.

Steve Ferns
4 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:07:09
Bielsa Everton

He likes defenders good on the ball as centre-back so perhaps Keane and Baines flanking Schneiderlin who can bring the ball out of defence. Gueye as the defensive shield. Then Davies and Sigurdsson in the middle to make the midfield tick.

In the attacking third, we would need Sandro and Rooney to pull wide and Calvert-Lewin to be ready to drop and let Barkley come ahead of him. Perhaps then Rooney as the 9 and then Calvert-Lewin wide right?

I hate these kind of things usually, but anything to escape the reality.

Tony Hill
5 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:17:26
Michael (#1). Do you think Koeman should be sacked?
Peter Warren
6 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:24:10
A woeful start to the season is an understatement. I've been critical of Koeman but have reserved and still do reserve judgment. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger and I would keep with him to see if he can get the team out of this.
Steve Ferns
7 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:26:47
Bielsa giving a talk to leading professional managers

Does anyone see Koeman having ideas like this. Martinez did, particularly in attack. Moyes did, particularly in defence.

I want to see an Everton manager with this kind of passion and getting the maximum out of the Everton team. Bielsa loves youthful energy and our Youth team is ripe for plucking. Koeman is too scared to pick kids, even though some are older than signings like Vlasic.

England's best manager on his "Dad"

Michael Kenrick
8 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:39:24
Tony, I think the arguments for sacking him are very compelling; I also think the arguments for giving him more time are strong and convincing. So I'm torn. I'd probably keep him on for a few more weeks at least, and give him a right rollicking.

But I really don't want to give him ~£12M in compo...

Steve Ferns
9 Posted 14/09/2017 at 23:44:04
Exactly, Michael. 㾸m in compo means he won't be sacked. Also factor in at least 𧴜m to overhaul his lopsided squad.
Tony Hill
10 Posted 14/09/2017 at 00:01:37
Michael, (#8), thanks for replying. A paltry sum if it saves us from the garbage he's serving up and ensures our safety/procures some success. The cost of persisting with him will be much, much greater.
Oliver Molloy
11 Posted 15/09/2017 at 00:40:52
After we play Man Utd this Sunday (a game we will most likely lose ) we have the following home fixtures, all of these we should win you would think.

If we lose, let's say against Sunderland and Bournemouth, I'd say Koeman will be under extreme pressure to quit.

I as people have commented Koeman has lost the dressing room (I don't believe he has right now), he is fucked because when the majority of a football teams players decide they don't like the manager it's only a matter of time.

Spineless way of doing things of course but we've all watched it happen time and time again. Players won't break a leg so to speak.

My guess is that behind the scenes there is a lot of passing the buck going on why the club never got the striker we desperately needed, rumour has it that Koeman was told Giroud was in the bag , everything just seems a mess right now and it's same old Everton.

Sunderland - Weds 20th
Bournemouth - Sat 23rd
Apollon Limassol - Thurs 28th
Burnley - Sun 1st

Gareth Clark
12 Posted 15/09/2017 at 09:58:33
First and foremost, anyone who thinks Koeman should go is simply naive & shows a characteristic of many Everton supporters. So I'm here to represent some of the positive & patient Evertonians.

The simple fact is that there is no better manager to take Everton forward. There is no manager that we could get who could attract players the way Koeman can. There is no other manager who can get Everton to the next level & get people talking about Everton.

I think there will be a time for Unsy to take over, but that time is definitely not now or even in the near future. He simply doesn't have the experience & there is a massive gap between U23s and 1st team. Plus, he doesn't have the reputation to draw big names... yes he is a fantastic manager & great at building young talent... so let him do what he does best for now.

What really annoys me is that many people want instant results & instant success all the time. Unfortunately that is not always possible.

If you look at Spurs as an example, when Bale went for big money & there was a lot of new incomings, it took time to get to a good level. And I see a very similar situation with Rom leaving. In reality, the large bulk of our team is new & haven't played together that much. It takes time to gel & get used to Koeman's ways. Which I am 100% confident will happen.

What makes matters worse, is that we have had an extremely tough start to the season, with our Premier League games being ridiculous & also Europa League qualifiers.

How can you judge these players – especially Sandro & Klaassen – on a handful of games. They are new to the Premier League, and it is well known that it takes some time to get used to the pace & style of the Prem. They have played less than 5 games, and they are already being called not up to it or not good enough... have some fuckin' patience.

Yes, there are clear areas where we need improvement. However, recruitment doesn't lie on one man's shoulders. There are plenty people involved.

We need a big and mobile #9 – Dolberg, Dembele, or Batshuayi would fit the bill. Ajax didn't get through the Europa qualifiers – so Dolberg would be a accessible in Jan.

We need a new centre-back – young, strong & with more pace. Rojo, De Vrij, Tah or Romagnoli.

We need a new left-back – someone who will compete with Baines and eventually take his place. The best option for me is Bertrand. Another option is Chilwell.

When Coleman is back, I think we will be a lot more solid at the back. Like most of you, I agree that Kenny should be used, as he is a very similar player to Coleman. However, I feel that his time will come.

When we play a back three, Holgate has to be a part of that 3. Having Jagielka & Williams at the back together is just too easy to exploit. Holgate, Williams and Keane would be my choice. Most will disagree, but I think that Williams is a much better defender than Jags, doing the basics... although he is untidy, he often gets the job done. A new centre-back coming in, would mean that Williams & Jagielka move into a squad player role, with Williams on the bench for tough games.

Currently I'd play:

Holgate Williams Keane
Kenny Idrissa Schneiderlin Baines
Calvert-Lewin Sandro

This offers us pace up front & decent width. The system I think most suits us, though, is the 4-3-3 system. Especially with a full strength side:

Coleman Keane Williams Baines
Idrissa Schneiderlin
Bolasie Rooney Sandro

Subs: Stekelenburg, Funes Mori, Holgate, Davies, Klaassen, Vlasic, Calvert-Lewin.

With the likes of Davies & Klaassen slotting in for games where we have more of the ball – their passing will be needed.

Funes Mori & Holgate are the perfect subs as they can play left-back and right-back respectively.

A complete squad would look like:

Coleman Keane Rojo Bertrand
Idrissa Schneiderlin
Bolasie Dolberg Sandro

Subs: Stekelenburg, Williams, Baines, Davies, Klaassen, Onyekuru, Rooney

With Calvert-Lewin, Vlasic, Lookman, Funes Mori, Holgate, Kenny, Jagielka etc fitting into the squad when needed and they will get plenty of game time.

Pete Clarke
13 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:23:38
Not so sure about the "not rolling over for anyone" comment as only Joe Royle has put up a good fight in all of the meetings with the Sky luvvies.

However, I think that this team is about to struggle against the average teams too. I am dreading Man Utd this weekend as they are likely to boot us in the plumbs whilst we are already down and recovery won't be easy.

Chris Gould
14 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:24:29

You are not alone, but you are probably wasting your efforts right now. People need to vent and are understandably frustrated.

I agree with a lot of what you say, although I wouldn't say I am 100% confident Koeman will turn it around as I really can't see us improving too much without a top class striker. I think this team was built with Giroud in mind and we are a little fucked without him or a player of similar ability.

I think Sandro was to play off Giroud and Sigurdsson was going to supply him. Calvert-Lewin is being hung out to dry because we don't have another option. The kid is simply not ready. He does not have the know how and probably won't be ready to lead a line of a top 7 Premier League team for a few more seasons. In fact, it's way too early to say if he will ever be that good.

Still, regardless of this, our lacklustre performances are unacceptable. Koeman went through similar winless streaks with Southampton and would then suddenly win 6-7 games in a row. I am still a believer and keeping my frustration in check.

Although I expect us to get thumped on Sunday, I equally wouldn't be surprised to see us put in a performance and then go on a run of wins. Koeman has shown that he can beat the top six and turn things around. I'm keeping the faith, but he needs to shake things up.

Without doubt we will improve if Coleman and Bolasie can regain full fitness and get back to their best. I would also like to see a fit and firing McCarthy back in the team. I believe he still has a lot to offer and may offer some much needed energy that we seem to be lacking.

James McPherson
15 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:28:24
The fresh start should commence with the board. In Kenwright and Elstone you have serial losers whose continued presence is a lead weight that shackles this club and prevents us progressing.

Koeman has made significant mistakes. All managers do. Attributing the blame to him solely is ridiculous and really just removes the very thin veil of dislike some Evertonians have had with our manager since Day 1.

Not having a capable forward has torpedoed our plans. Koeman is trying to adjust but is struggling and making poor decisions – but his record (win ratio still comfortably exceeds our last two managers) affords him time. This run started with the board's incompetence in the transfer market. People would do well to remember that.

Andrew Clare
16 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:28:54
Okay. We know we need new players in 2 or 3 positions but I still think we have a very good squad and they should be playing much better than they are. So, this points to the team being set up incorrectly which is down to the coach and his staff.

The team are obviously uncomfortable playing in the system that Koeman likes. They also look unmotivated. Whatever he is doing is not working.

Yesterday, I was disappointed like everyone else and said so on here. But now, in the cold light of day, I think it is early days and we should wait until the players have built up an understanding before jumping the gun.

It's the lack of motivation that concerns me more than anything.

James Watts
17 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:30:46
Gareth (#12). Although I admire your loyalty, blind optimism doesn't really work for most.

To say there is no better manager to take Everton forward and there is no manager that we could get who could attract players the way Koeman can plus the icing on the cake of There is no other manager who can get Everton to the next level & get people talking about Everton. are absolutely ridiculous and silly statements.

Any manager of Everton could have attracted any player we brought this summer.

Koeman attracts big names is crap. What big names? Rooney? Nothing to do with Koeman. Not one other single player we've brought is a 'big name' in my book.

On paper they are decent/good players, in his system they are shite, like any player would be. His tactics are diabolical. His team motivation is non-existent. His team selections are utterly stupid most of the time.

I've understood some of the things he's tried, but they never work because of the underlying factors. That isn't based on just this season but what we witnessed most of last season too, bar the odd excellent performance.

For the record, I can't see him being sacked. Not yet as there are mitigating circumstances, whether the more impatient of fans want to admit it or not. However, if we are struggling in the bottom 5 or 6 by Christmas I think he'll be gone. If we are below 8th with no decent cup run by season end I think he'll be gone. He'll be given that amount of time I have no doubt, even after the last 3 games.

Shane Corcoran
18 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:36:40
Can someone tell me how Kenwright and Elstone, despite their previous failings, are in any way responsible for what we've seen on the pitch this season?
Thomas Lennon
19 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:46:23
It was never going to be easy with so many new players and such a tough start. We are in the process of moving from a 'top ten' team to a team capable of competing much higher up consistently and that is a huge cultural & psychological change.

As evidence of the difficulties, the season after Spurs sold Bale (2013-14) and bought 7 new players in one close season, their aggregate score against Liverpool, Arsenal, Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea was 6-30 and in total lost by three or more 10 times, conceding four or more 7 times. They scored 55 goals in Premier League though 15 of those were scored after March.

They performed better in Europe, winning all group matches but going out in the second knockout round, conceding 5 to Benfica.

Moyes had several runs like this and turned it around with what he had because he had no option. Koeman has to do the same now. Moyes was also tough, taciturn, grumpy with difficulties communicating in his early days. He initiated squad sessions where all opinions were welcomed and learned to listen to his players. The players learned to listen to Moyes too. I certainly hope they are meeting at Finch Farm this morning; if not it is going to get a lot worse!

Paul Ward
20 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:50:27
Shane@18, Read the title of the thread.
Steve Ferns
21 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:52:42
I hear you, Gareth,

I would love Dolberg, but he is having a terrible season. Dembele and Batshuayi aren't faring much better.

Why not utilise Holgate or Foulds? What's the point in signing highly rated young kids for the U23s and not playing them? Such as Gibson. Problem is not the centre back pairing last night; Keane had a bad game, Jags wasn't great but he did not do much seriously wrong. Problems came from them ripping through the midfield and the flanks and exposing the centre-backs too easily. signing the players you suggest would not fix that.

Left-back – Koeman and Walsh knew this all summer long and even before, and still did nothing about it. Also they allowed the competition for Baines, such as it was, Galloway to go out on loan.

As for 3-4-3, I am not sure that you fully understand the formation. in order for it to work properly you need someone comfortable on the ball to bring it out of defence, like John Stones. Chelsea did so well last season because David Luiz did this. He concentrated on attacking rather than defending, as silly as that might sound.

Any centre-back we have bringing the ball out of defence will be occupying the same exact space as Morgan Schneiderlin. The formation is just too damn defensive, unless you formally drop Schneiderlin back to be a third centre-back and have him bring the ball out rather than worry about man-marking.

I do not think that the doom that some are predicting, ie, relegation dogfights etc, will come to pass. I fully expect Koeman to get things going on this run of easy games and in a few months all his fans will be on here praising him once more.

For me though, he is steady, he is Mr Just Enough, and he will deliver 7th again and a reasonable run in the Europa League. I would not expect anything more than that and I would not be panicking unduly, unless you definitely do know of turmoil behind the scenes, above and beyond whatever the Ross Barkley situation actually is.

Tony Hogan
22 Posted 15/09/2017 at 10:58:37
Shane (18) Kenwright responsible because he appointed Ronald Koeman, a big name player, proven failure as a manager, just another idea to massage his Everton ego. Just like Gazza, Ginola, Richard Gouch, Rooney, etc.

I think he imagines Everton like some West End Show, big headline names regardless of ability, like so called B-list celebrities.

Who next? sign Pele, he's a big name

John Charles
23 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:02:41
I am not sure 15 months, 3 transfer windows and 𧶀m spent to achieve the standard of football we are playing is impatience on those who are asking for a change.

The team needs time to gel arguement is somewhat true but Koeman decided he needed all these new players and presumably had an idea of how and where they would play?

Personally, I do not think the club will dispense with his services in the very near future. However 6 of the next 8 games are at home with one of the away games at Brighton, surely we must be looking at winning 6 of these?

Would be interesting to know both what the board and those supporters advocating giving Koeman more time would think is a passable return from these 8 games?

Again, personally, I think if we win 3 or less we should seriously think about Koeman's future

John Charles
24 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:08:17
Moshiri obviously isn't as daft as I thought. Keep Kenwright around and watch the flak fly his way whilst getting off almost Scot-free.
James McPherson
25 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:15:24
Shane, not having a Plan B, Plan C in place and thereby not signing a forward was an act of gross incompetence – the scale of which I can't truly comprehend at this stage, but it is unraveling each game.

That's had a significant effect on what's occurring on the pitch. Calvert-Lewin is not there yet. That's one aspect – the psychological impact that has had on team and fans alike has been significant too.

I for one woke up on September 1st and thought same old EFC – cocking it up again. Playing without a capable forward for half a season – unthinkable.

Sorry, but the fresh start has to begin at the top... the culture of failure and incompetence pervades through this club – that has to go.

Paul Ward
26 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:24:15
James Mcpherson @15, Some very good points.

I am not one of the Koeman lynch mob, but I have not seen any signs of improvement yet. So when and if the "fresh Start" begins Kenwright should be without doubt the first to be drummed out.

The damage he has done to the progress of this club is insurmountable. So many fans wanted the manager out in a year or players after a few games but good old Bill has lead us for 27 years, won fuck all and he is still here.

Steve Ferns
27 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:25:06
Calvert-Lewin was playing games and was magnificent against Man City. He's young though, and young players are prone to loss of form.

Koeman is being too stop-start with Dominic and he needs to keep playing him, to keep starting him every game as he had done with Rooney. The goals will come and more often than not, he will perform like he did against Man City.

Shane Corcoran
28 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:54:24
Paul (#20), I've read the two words but how that answers my question I don't know. Read it again maybe.

Tony (#22), Kenwright may have appointed Koeman (maybe he was Moshiri's man) but there were plenty on here, the majority I would say, that were at least not unhappy with the appointment so I don't go along with your assessment here.

James (#25), surely Koeman/Walsh are responsible for having transfer plans in place rather than Kenwright. We could speculate that Kenwright fucked up negotiations as is often suggested but I'm still struggling to see why, after watching the dross served up, that Kenwright's name appears.

I think maybe it's the default position. Let off some steam and throw Kenwright's name in at the end.

Kevin Hudson
29 Posted 15/09/2017 at 11:58:09
Gareth Clark (#12),

"The simple fact is there is no better manager to take Everton forward."

How is that a fact?

My observations: Koeman has pissed away a fortune; his team appear unable to bring themselves to even have a shot on goal, they don't defend well and he openly admits his team were unprepared for last night.

...and Farhad Moshiri is paying through the nose for all of this.

I hope he's given ten more games to turn it around. If not, I'd be more than happy to see him refer to our club in the third-person, properly this time, as he'd be separated from it.

James McPherson
30 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:14:45
Shane, it is indeed the board's job to conduct negotiations. Elstone as CEO and Kenwright as Chairman will have executive authority over this. They will have had targets.

Do you feel that Koeman and Walsh simply submitted one option with the view that if we did not get him, we will opt to play without a recognised capable striker for half a season? Really? Sorry, don't buy that.

The club's management of the transfer window has failed Koeman and probably Walsh too – and most certainly the fans. This represents another (in the long line) failure from the board – one of whom has proudly presided at the helm for almost 20 years. So when the OP states "fresh start", I regard it as legitimate to say the new broom should sweep across the club in its totality – starting at the top – as that's where this culture of failure emanates.

You can of course exercise your prerogative and scapegoat Koeman for everything – even a professional footballer not being able to pass a ball to his own player over 10 yards.

Shane Corcoran
31 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:26:19
James, on your specific question, I'd have thought that Koeman and Walsh would have had a list of strikers ranked in their order of who they'd prefer. I'd also have thought that, as it seems they knew that Lukaku was definitely going at a very early stage, this list would have been compiled and submitted in plenty of time.

Now, I don't have any idea why or how a suitable striker wasn't found and signed early. Is it your contention that they were identified and that the reason they weren't signed is down to the incompetence of Kenwright with regards to negotiations?

If we're splashing £ 50m on Sigurdsson, is it likely that Kenwright played hard ball with cash on other signings? This isn't his money, so what would he have to gain?

I genuinely don't know the answer to these questions.

With regard to the title of the thread, I haven't criticised. I only mentioned it in reply to a strange comment by Paul at #20 above.

Jay Woods
32 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:45:31
Whatever the behind-the-scenes politics of this collossus-sized foul-up, it boils down to one of two things:

1. They didn't try hard enough to get a striker, or,
2. They didn't have the resources to acquire one after, well, you know, they had invested so much in central midfielders.

I'm not saying Moshiri is a fraud, either. I think he'll probably deliver on the stadium. But I don't think we have anything like the financial clout for player acqusition that we all believed during a transfer window spend that was skewed by the fee we received for the one player we miss the most.

(On that latter note, I hold my hand up and confess I was one of those who felt Lukaku was a lazy oaf we should cash in on. I see the error of that now.)

James McPherson
33 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:55:52
Shane, a forward was not signed – the buck stops with them – the board. Knowing what the on-pitch situation and potential consequences would be (which we can now all see) that was incompetence. It was not as you say letting off steam and just throwing Kenwright's name in at the end.

Koeman's decision making has gone badly awry in the last 4/5 games and I'm not happy with that. He needs to improve.

Kenwright has got it wrong for 20 years – and not altogether in an open or transparent way (which in my eyes is worse) – just think we need to be even handed.

I'm concerned with the mob mentality that's descended into TW over the last 12 months – think it reflects how we as a society are acting – depressing.

The Live Forum was so bad last night thought we had been infiltrated by reds. Hearing fans calling the manager the c-word is just disgraceful. No club ever gets out the mire with such a lack of unity.

Mark Boulle
34 Posted 15/09/2017 at 12:59:59
It's been said before, but I think more scrutiny should be put on Steve Walsh and what his role – or lack of it – was in getting us the striker we needed this summer.

This is the guy whose scouting network and ability to unearth so-called 'hidden gems' from around the world was supposedly worth an eye-watering amount of compensation to Leicester City.

Yet the only striker links that ever appeared to have any substance all summer were Giroud and various other reserve / backup Premier League strikers.

Are you telling me we couldn't have picked up the No 9 equivalent of Sandro from somewhere, anywhere else in Europe or indeed the world, for a similar sum if money was tight?! Where were we looking? A striker was paramount – there are more of them than just Olivier Giroud and Christian bloody Benteke, for Christ's sake!!!

Oliver Molloy
35 Posted 15/09/2017 at 17:19:36
Mark, I think Steve Walsh's main role is to identify young football players with "more than a chance" of making the first team within a time scale, or maybe go right in there if good enough to do so. Any proven established player would be down to Koeman telling the board to go and get them.

I've said before that Koeman was basically taking for granted that his first choice of Giroud would happen; it didn't and I'd there was no Plan B in place it's not very good is it. All concerned need to admit there was an almighty fuck up, but that won't happen.

Koeman admitting for the first time today that he takes responsibility for the defeat the other night is a change in tactics media wise – I can see more shit to the fan yet!

Bobby Thomas
36 Posted 15/09/2017 at 18:29:30
John Charles (#23),

There is no way that team/squad will win those games. The squad is fundamentally unbalanced & weak in vital, almost all, areas. The entire back 4 is compromised.

Right back, no Coleman means we have nothing there. We are weak.

Left back. Who spells Baines? Who is half the player he used to be, by the way. I've been saying, I've said it on here, for over a year, we need a left back in their early 20s to succeed Baines. There's nothing there. We are weak.

Centre-back. Before Funes Mori got injured I thought we needed 2 new long term centre backs. Then Funes Mori got injured. We signed one. This from a manager who likes to play 3 center backs. Fucking pathetic. Williams & Jagielka are on the finish & Williams can only play central in a 3. He is awful in a 2. We are very, very weak in this position.

To solve this centre back & left back problem, they seemed to decide 1 player was sufficient. One that could play left of a three, in a 2, & also cover left back. That seemed quite absurd to me, but that was the decision they made.

They then failed to get this player in. By the way, if I haven't made myself clear, we desperately need a new center back & a new left back. The club is paying the price for two awful signings in Williams & Funes Mori.

I thought we needed two strikers in. We all know what happened.

The midfield is one paced – Gueye aside, there's no legs – with no variation. It lacks physically. It's a small, slow, weak midfield, that can't compete.

After signing a slow, declining Rooney, Koeman identified a one paced 30 year old target man, Giroud, as the main target. No doubt he would have received massive wages, if signed. He would have helped. In the sense that as we have no fucking striker, of course he would have helped. But really, would it have been that much better? I'm not so sure, the squad is a mess. We have a complete inability to stretch teams.

This squad is fundamentally weak, unbalanced, with no goals or pace, & we have got big, big fucking problems. It's a poor squad. The signings, for big, big fees, on hefty wages, are poor. Quite a few of them are in their late 20s, sat on big fat deals: Schneiderlin, Bolasie, Sigurdsson, Williams. Giroud would have been another. They all have one thing in common. They aren't top class players

We need to get out of the Europa League – otherwise the extra games will expose these huge flaws & we will be in deep trouble.

Walsh & Koeman have some big questions to answer. That window has been totally botched.

It's astounding how vastly experienced football men have managed to create a squad so unbalanced, lacking depth in key areas, slow, weak, & goal shy.

Keith Monaghan
37 Posted 15/09/2017 at 19:54:42
Defo too early to call for Koeman's head, although I understand many of the criticisms and some signings (eg,Williams & Schneiderlin(on this season's displays) have been very poor.

For me, the big mistake of the summer was the Lukaku - Rooney deal – I thought it crazy at the time - price too small for a proven Premier League scorer of his age, fitness & strength. It was a very backwards step which sent out all the wrong signals to our young players, ie, you can turn your back on Everton, we'll sell you cheaply to Man Utd and buy you back, paying you inflated wages, when you're not fit or good enough to get in a top 6 team and have proven over the last 2 years you're not even good enough to get in a mediocre England team.

We should obviously have signed a decent striker before agreeing to sell Lukaku – instead of that, Bill Kenwright just went all gooey-eyed and star-struck rushing to bring the one-of-our-own back who ran out on us before he was out of nappies 13 years earlier – showed how he'd learnt nothing since the crazy signings of Ginola, Gazza & Dunc (2nd time when he was a crock).

If we want to be successful we need to become a tougher club – Bill Kenwright needs to have decision-making influence & power removed from him.

Unsy has done well at his level – but where's his CV in terms of premier league or European games management? Or even 1st team management? Answer – it's non-existent.

John Pierce
38 Posted 15/09/2017 at 20:45:40

I think the crux of the situation is as you state in the OP. Sometimes two parties just don't fit.

Walker was the most obvious case in point and I'm afraid Koeman and Everton aren't creating any kind of cadence or symbiosis. Nor will there ever be.

I had hoped the union was at a point in both entities' upward trajectory that it would be mutually beneficial.

Everton looking to grow up as a club and Koeman's ambition enough to bridge the obvious chasm between the top 6.

A fresh start would engender much more good will as, despite the facts and percentages,no one likes him. Whilst not a prerequisite you need to have a much better record than he currently has, especially away from home.

The model Moshiri decided in was a Director of Football, to which end the dispensing of managers isn't the upheaval it is perceived to be.

He is far too much the hard nosed patriarchal bastard were most of that squad are of a generation were that won't wash. His back room staff are no different.

Stones, Lukaku, Barkley & Deulofeu couldn't wait to leave. That sergeant major shit he pulls a factor surely in their desire to do one?

It all feels like nothing clicks, nothing is natural or smooth. His style, his relationships and his demeanour all rub his stakeholders against the grain.

His complete lack of empathy in an emotional business has sentenced him to failure at Everton.

The best reason I can offer for his sacking is, no one offers a compelling reason for his style, just the same logic he offers. Nothing hopeful or something to buy into.

Wrong fit. Move on.

Tony Hill
39 Posted 15/09/2017 at 21:03:28
As David Hallwood has said on the match thread for Sunday, I think that the first half yesterday was the worst ever performance from an Everton side that I have seen in 60 years of watching. The shame should run right through the club.

I don't want Koeman, but there are too many who are hiding and who share the responsibility, or at least a good deal of it.

I am thinking, obviously, of our wretched Board who are skulking in the shadows as they have done for as long as I remember – that being the Everton way – and who routinely fail to deliver on their promises and boasts (though they always ensure there is nothing too clear-cut which might cause them to be held to account).

I am also thinking of the abject frauds who are currently permitted to wear our colours. What a disgrace they are and how ashamed they should be, though they won't be.

I think Koeman is hopeless but the rot set in long ago and the arrival of Moshiri's gang has not cured it. Far from it. I think his absurd Sky appearances are a marker of this man's bona fides. Just as we knew everything we needed to know about Kenwright by means of his friendship with the corporate spiv, Philip Green, so we know about Moshiri through his vanity crap for Murdoch. If Farhad talks football on the telly and in the media, just like Bill, then he cannot disclaim responsibility for the players on the pitch.

It's not all about Ronald, the only manager in the Premier League without a centre-forward.

Will Mabon
40 Posted 15/09/2017 at 23:08:51
"Its astounding how vastly experienced football men have managed to create a squad so unbalanced, lacking depth in key areas, slow, weak, & goal shy. "

You're right - but is it really astounding to them?

Dave Lynch
41 Posted 15/09/2017 at 23:19:12
Why Unsworth as interim?

If he does the business then give him the job, he knows the club inside out, knows the fans and what they expect from an Everton team.

He has to make the leap sometime into first class management, so give the lad a chance.

Let's face it, he can't do any worse than the fella we have now.

Gordon Crawford
42 Posted 15/09/2017 at 23:20:55
He won't get sacked anytime soon. Moshiri would look like a fool to sack him right now; after all, Koeman was his choice. But he should be gone before Christmas if things don't dramatically improve.

The players need time to gel and get used to playing a certain way, but that hasn't happened so far. And to be honest I'm not sure it will happen under Ronald. Ronald is changing too many players and we are only a few games in, I really do despair.

Michael Penley
43 Posted 15/09/2017 at 00:54:18
Attributing blame to Kenwright for signing Rooney? I don't get it. Wasn't it Koeman in the media every interview saying how great Rooney is? He obviously wants him in the team, and it's not like he has to play him.
Andy Meighan
44 Posted 16/09/2017 at 05:11:42
Gareth (#12) The most idiotic post I've ever read on here in all the years I've been on it. And that is really saying something.
Martin Nicholls
45 Posted 16/09/2017 at 09:25:18
Michael (#43) – you forget though that Kenwright has history for this sort of thing. Remember his role in bringing Duncan Ferguson back "home" and the sentimental nonsense he gushed about it?
Ciarán McGlone
46 Posted 16/09/2017 at 09:58:11
Koeman is going nowhere.. ToffeeWeb isn't a good barometer of the feelings of our fan base. For every Hind and McGlone, there's 10 Gareth Clarkes.

I've just listened to the Royal Blue podcast and we had articulate Evertonians wistfully longing for the days when Phil Neville fouled Ronaldo. Koeman got off Scott free in their analysis... The focus was on the players and their characteristics, no criticism of why we have those players or how they're set up.

It really is mystifying that a lot of our fans will ignore the fact that Koeman has spent £250 mill and assembled a team that he has no clue what to do with..

They will not click, gel or suddenly start playing good football... we will limp along and get some results against the upcoming cannon fodder and we'll be still playing the same ineffectual dross in 12 months time.

James Stewart
47 Posted 18/09/2017 at 12:08:54
The Koeman project is dead. He won't stay beyond his contract and we are further away from the top 4 than when he took over. Unsworth is more than capable of steadying the ship, unless Tuchel, Silva or whoever are ready to step in.

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