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Dave Abrahams
1 Posted 06/05/2019 at 09:16:01
Holgate will be staying at WBA for the play-offs.

I think Michael, that the loanees at the foreign clubs will be of more interest in how we deal with them, millions of pounds in wages are involved in them, hopefully Brands will lower the cost one way or another.

Peter Mills
2 Posted 06/05/2019 at 10:44:22
Michael, the end of season verdict on Kieran Dowell from a Blade is that he has been a useful member of the squad that has gained promotion.

He has come into the team sporadically, done some good things but drifted in and out of the game. The fan in question would like him to stay for another season, which doesn't sound a bad idea all round.

Gerard McKean
3 Posted 06/05/2019 at 10:49:55
I've not seen any of them live but match going friends at WBA and Bolton have given me glowing reports on Mason Holgate and Joe Williams especially, with Callum Connolly also getting a good mention. Possibly Holgate is the most likely to break through at Everton first and I like the idea of him as an aggressive-minded right back.

I'm baffled as to why Beni Baningime hasn't played more, is he injured? But he looked a hell of a player and then there is Kieran Dowell, the Kevin Sheedy of his generation, who also took time to break through.

Sean Callaghan
4 Posted 06/05/2019 at 11:04:48
Was speaking with an Ipswich season ticket holder a couple of weeks back and she really rated Pennington and was hoping that something could be arranged to keep him.

She also spoke in glowing terms about Callum Connolly who was there on loan a couple of years back. That said, I reckon I could look half decent in the current Ipswich side (and my knees would make Paul McGrath's look healthy).

Michael Kenrick
5 Posted 06/05/2019 at 14:16:37
Good points, Dave. I forgot about the play-offs!

I should add the rest who are at foreign clubs. Need to figure out when each league winds up...

Garbutt was the one who surprised me. League One may finally be his level. This season's spell at Oxford Utd is the most productive he's ever had. But he's still ours for another year...

Derek Knox
6 Posted 06/05/2019 at 15:15:30
Peter @2, thanks for the update on Kieran Dowell, through your relative who is a Blade's fan. I always try to watch any games where our loanees are playing to monitor their progress.

I always take a particular interest in Kieran, because out of all of them I believe there is a very talented lad in there, but he seems to fade out after promising starts, at nearly everywhere he goes, so I think if possible and it is agreeable to Kieran, another loan spell would be ideal, to see how he copes in the Prem now that promotion has been confirmed.

I would also like the same conditions to apply to Mason Holgate whether WBA emerge from the play-offs or not, but if they did make it back to the Prem it would, as in the case of Kieran be a good indication of how he would cope (if picked) playing in the Prem week in, week out.

In both cases should they return and not be sold, they would most likely be as squad members with limited playing time, so better they get regular playing time and experience.

Gerard @3, I share your puzzlement with regards to Beni, in the few times I have seen him turn out for us, I have thought this lad is 'knocking on the door' and it's only a matter of time before he is either playing, or being on the bench for the first team regularly. I think he has only played one game at Wigan, but there has been no mention of injury or anything to explain this.

Sean @ 4, you have it in a nutshell there playing well in the Championship and doing well is not quite the same as doing it in the Prem, look at Cardiff and Fulham who both looked good last season whenever they were on the TV (okay Fulham made too many changes too quickly) but both have struggled to cope from day one almost, and have subsequently been relegated.

Wolves have been an exception, and have surprised a lot of people, as usually the first year is about consolidating and acclimatising to the Prem and avoiding relegation, to qualify for Europe in their first season is truly commendable.

Simon Smith
7 Posted 06/05/2019 at 17:31:48
Dowell could do far worse than staying with Sheffield United for the upcoming season, he will get a genuine taste of what's needed to play in this league.

Joe Williams is another I'd like to see loaned out to a prem side, maybe Norwich or Brighton, see what hes made of.

Holgate should join back up with the first team, ideally he could cover Mina and Keane at centre half and Coleman at right back, freeing up JJ for a premier league loan.

After Bainsey being offered a new deal I'd imagine Robinson will be looking for a loan deal too, championship at least, but may hold his own in the prem.

Callum Connerlly is one we should also look at keeping, but both he and Benningame need a full season in the championship to get a good 30+ game season under there belts.

Evans may need a division 1 loan, although I've not seen as much of him as I'd like in order to comment too much, but with only a handful of games at Morcombe and a single appearance for Blackpool, the lad needs to kick on, in September he will be 21 years old and it starts getting to sink or swim time.

For me the rest should be moved on.

Andy Crooks
8 Posted 06/05/2019 at 18:25:13
How have Bolasie, Sandro and Mirallas done? Are they still under contract?
Brian Williams
9 Posted 06/05/2019 at 18:34:41
Andy. Mirallas won't be getting kept there because he's not done much. Sandro hasn't scored since Dixie was a lad and Bolasie's done quite well I believe.
We should do a BOGOF deal with 'em.
Rob Halligan
10 Posted 06/05/2019 at 18:49:18
For anyone who's interested, you can check every player in the first team squad as to when their contract is up on the link below. Just click on each individual player and scroll down to the bottom of their profile.

Derek Knox
11 Posted 06/05/2019 at 19:14:44
Andy @8, as Brian has said has said, only Bolasie (2021) has impressed out of the 3, I think Mirallas still has some time left (2020) and Sandro (2021). Just those three getting them off the books (not easy I know) would free up the wage bill a bit.

Sandro will be the hardest to move I think, he has been in Spain on loan at both Sevilla and Real Sociedad and believe it or not he scored zilch, zero, nowt, the centre of a doughnut! Makes Tosun look prolific!

Thanks Rob for the 'heads up' on checking the contract situation and profiles, it's almost frightening when you see how many (mostly deadwood) we have on the books, major headache for Brands to sort out.

It's all very well for Moshiri to say about cutting the personnel and wage bill, (quite rightly so,) but he must have sanctioned most of the deals. It's a bit unfair, but understandable, for Silva to have his hands tied for who he wants to bring in, when the profligacy of Koeman and Walsh, and to a lesser degree Allardyce, are responsible for us being in this mess, and were handsomely compensated for their treachery.

James Flynn
12 Posted 06/05/2019 at 19:48:47
Afraid to look ar Sandro.

But Mirallas has been getting regular playing time for a while. Maybe another loan out for the last year of his contract.

Bolasie is playing basically every game since he went to Belgium. Even allowing that the league there is a minor one, he looks back to full health. Which is important in selling his contract because he's 30 in a couple weeks and has 2 more years on his contract. Bet he'd do well on one of the promoted clubs.

Barring that, maybe he can play his way into Marco's plans. We do have to pay him or he does always try hard.

Kieran Kinsella
13 Posted 06/05/2019 at 23:20:50
Williams had great reviews at Bolton as he did last year at Barnsley. Question is, would he shine at a higher level or is he at about the level he belongs at? It is tricky because when they don't do well in the lower leagues we say “he must be crap.” If they do well we say “but it's not the EPL.”

I would like to see our better kids loaned to Premier League teams. I realize it didn't work for say Galloway but that was with Pulis as boss. Looking at this aeason's promotees, Norwich, Sheffield United and AN Other, all play good football, none have a tonne of money to spend. I would be hawking Connolly, Williams, Dowell etc to these clubs... plus Brighton, whose only good player is about 56 years old!

Mike Gaynes
14 Posted 06/05/2019 at 23:35:35
Michael and Rob, thanks for the updates.

I didn't see anybody play more than once (occasional Championship games on TV here), but I kept track of some of the loanees through their hometown press coverage, and Holgate, Pennington, Robinson, Williams and Connolly all got strong reviews.

Note Holgate played almost zero minutes at CB -- almost entirely at RB and RM. And Pennington had ankle surgery after kicking a goalpost in training (no word if it was accidental or intentional), so he'll be out for a while.

Simon Smith
15 Posted 07/05/2019 at 08:33:02
Although Mason has played right back the important thing is, he has played.

Holgate played 19 games out on loan in the championship, this has to be viewed as a huge positive.

Also we have already seen the lad play many many times at centre half for the blues, imo he is prem ready.

Kevin Prytherch
16 Posted 07/05/2019 at 13:48:37
I’ve done the same as others here, keeping up to date second hand.

Connolly was a strange one, Wigan fans couldn’t stand him, then he went to Bolton and played full back, wide mid, defensive mid and even a number 10 role once, and got very good reviews. It would often be Williams and Connolly in centre mid. Connolly also got great reviews from Ipswich last season, and Wigan last season, before his poor ones this season.

Williams has had strong reviews for 2 seasons running with both clubs wanting to retain him.

Pennington was hit and miss with Leeds last season but contender for player of the year with Ipswich this year.

Dowell was as is mentioned above.

Holgate has played as an orthodox right back and a wing back and played every game.

Robinson broke into the USA national team. From reports it sounds like he has all the attributes, but needs to work on his decision making, ie - poor passes / crosses etc.

Personally I don’t see the benefit of Williams, Dowell or Holgate spending any more time in the championship, and think we need to make a decision on Pennington.

Connolly could do with holding down a position for a year - he sounds like mr versatile at the moment, and Robinson May need another year to iron out mistakes and work on his decision making.

Jay Harris
17 Posted 07/05/2019 at 14:57:35
Ive always seen Holgate as more of a Kyle Walker type than a CB because his main strength is his athleticism and technical ability.

He is a bit small for Silva's preference for a CB and I see Jonjo as ahead of him as a natural RB.

It will be intersting to see which one makes the breakthrough first.

For all his technical ability Dowell is not consistent enough to be a regular in the Prem. He blows too hot and cold even in the same game.

Pennington is another Duffy. He will suit a lower level Prem or a championship side.

The two lads I rate with the most potential are Joe Williams and Antonee Robinson. Both are winners with a strong sense of purpose and mental tough ness is every bit as important as technical ability.

Derek Knox
18 Posted 08/05/2019 at 08:55:56
Kevin and Jay, pretty accurate assessment of our young hopefuls, while I appreciate their young ages, what is a bit worrying for me, is that when they have had a chance or even a cameo sub's role (which is not ideal to do so) none have really stood out.

I know that may sound a bit harsh, but when you look at similar situations at other Prem Clubs, youngsters have come in and made an impact straight away, and while that may not have resulted in permanent inclusion, it has sent a message that they are valuable to their squads if needed.

Because of the large numbers we have on the books, not all Academy players, there has to be a thinning out of personnel. It may be unfortunate in some cases of late developers, that after they have moved on, they turn out to be really good players.

Simon Smith
19 Posted 09/05/2019 at 15:49:40
When I look over these lads out on loan I kinda see what's happened with a lot of them.

For instance, Williams and Martina were Koemans buys, rightly or wrongly he wanted them, they played, new managers came in and they went on loan.

Kids always get loan deals, great.

Sandro flopped and were getting some wages back in, ok.

Miralas though !!!!
In what world did a manager give Miralas a new deal ?
No manager has played him for a long time so how did he ever get a new deal.

Only at the blues could that happen.

John Raftery
20 Posted 09/05/2019 at 16:51:50
The majority of these players were playing in struggling teams. Holgate and Dowell were the notable exceptions. The feedback on Holgate from my friend, an Albion Season Ticket Holder, is that he was one of their ‘ best/most consistent players. He has pace, a good tackle in him and lots of stamina and noticeably remains full of running at the end of games’.

Meanwhile Dowell did not get much time on the pitch in the vital last few games of the season. I am not sure where Chris Wilding played him. I noticed in two England Under 21 matches in March he was used as a deep lying midfielder spraying the ball to either flank. He was excellent in the first match, less so in the second when Germany made a point of closing him down.

Frank Wade
21 Posted 10/05/2019 at 00:07:11
Simon #19,
I suspect with Mirallas, we took a punt on him in the hope he would command a fee, rather than release him on a free a year later. No club was willing to pay up, so we lost out.

We were unlucky too with Sandro, who had a great season in La Liga, was available for a cheap buyout, what could possibly go wrong ? Hindsight tells us this was a big mistake, but at the time, I didn't hear any dissenting voices.

Michael, Was Luke Garbutt heaving involved in the Checkatrade Trophy with Oxford. It would take a career to rack up 10 appearances with Everton in the Cup.

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