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John Keating
1 Posted 04/06/2019 at 07:19:49
John
I bet Eddie Gray was glad he just missed the Everton v Leeds games of a few years earlier!
Some right crackers
People say Goodison can have an intimidating atmosphere now!
What would they say about the early 60's ?
Not just Leeds either, remember Brown the Spurs goalie and the dart carry on ?
Crazy times indeed
John McFarlane Snr
2 Posted 04/06/2019 at 14:29:58
Hi John [1] I often wonder what yesterday's players think of the game today, I personally believe that there is a lot more skill in the modern game, but I also believe that the players are being over protected. What was regarded as a good strong tackle, [and in my opinion, should be acceptable today] is deemed a foul, because of the antics of the recipient rolling around in supposed agony.

My regular spec in the 60's was behind the Park End goal, and the incident involving Derek Temple and Willie Bell in front of the paddock, was one of the most violent challenges [if not the worst] I have seen in my years of attending Goodison Park, we were amazed that Temple was reintroduced to the fray. if memory serves me right, to add salt to the wound, Eric Bell scored the winning goal.

Regarding the atmosphere, I think that it's a chicken and egg situation, the fans can claim that they are waiting for inspiration from the players, and the players, likewise from the fans. I do know, that when fans and players are in sync, there is an excellent atmosphere, intimidating to the opposition. Bet wishes John.

Terry Underwood
3 Posted 04/06/2019 at 14:32:48
interesting read as I remember these guys. From my list, Terry Paine and Ron Davies, winger and centre forward for Southampton, and one from my local side, Portsmouth, goalkeeper John Milkins. Back in the day when it was a working class game, played and watched by working class men.
John McFarlane Snr
4 Posted 04/06/2019 at 18:39:35
Hi again John [1] apologies for misinformation, I had an 'Old Man' moment, I meant Willie Bell. Eric Bell, was a wing half who played for Bolton Wanderers in the 50s.

Hi Terry [3] you refer to Terry Paine and Ron Davies, I'm surprised that you omitted John Sydenham. Paine joined Southampton in February 1957, and Sydenham two months later. Between them they made 1056 League appearances Including 6 as substitutes. scoring 196 goals.

I'm afraid that the name John Milkings is unfamiliar to me, I checked his League record and it shows that he never played in the top flight. He joined Portsmouth in May 1961 and made 344 appearances, before leaving for Oxford United in August 1974, where he made a further 53 starts.

The only Portsmouth goalkeeper I can recall is Norman Uprichard (pronounced Youprichard), who signed for 'Pompey' in November 1952 and went on to play 182 games, before moving to Southend United in July 1959, where he clocked up another 12 appearances. Norman also won 18 caps for Northern Ireland.

John Keating
5 Posted 04/06/2019 at 19:33:44
John
I met Terry Paine a few years ago in Cape Town. I think he was doing some pundit stuff for someone or other.
Anyway what an interesting guy and some great stories of Everton players and games he played against and in.
Looked great and as fit as a fiddle because he must be getting on a bit.
Always remember him as a very good clean tricky winger with a fantastic cross
Dave Abrahams
7 Posted 06/06/2019 at 15:40:26
All interesting choices John, Mike Summerbee a fast orthodox winger with plenty of bottle. You mention his nose, I was at an amateur boxing occasion in Manchester, The Lancashire and West Cheshire team were fighting a Jewish team in a charity event, I was talking to Joe Mercer manager of Man. City at the time and Pat Credand, I said to Joe that I thought Mike Summerbee would have been here to support the Jewish lads,Pat Credand was laughing his head off, Joe never got it.

Trevor Ford, as you say an handful for any defence and another one who relished a battle.

Ivor Allchurch an eloquent stylish footballer always good to watch, he played alongside his brother Len, another Welsh international outside right.

Bobby Tambling a very good goal scoring player, I think he scored for Chelsea againstLiverpool in an FA cupgame at Anfield.

Eddie Gray another great dribbling winger very stylish a bit on the lines of Kevin Sheedy.

Terry Underwood mentions two favourites of mine in Terry Paine and Ron Davies great players, Terry Paine got a good few England caps, he would have got a lot more but played in the same era when there was plenty of excellent right wingers to choose from including Bryan Douglas of Blackburn Rovers.

Don Alexander
8 Posted 06/06/2019 at 16:52:52
Wingers died under Sir Alf, pretty much regardless of their skills. To me Eddie Gray was the one player in THAT Leeds side who was a delight to watch, devoid of malice as he was (unlike the rest of them). Mike Summerbee was a very useful centre-forward for City too when required and in December '69 got dog's abuse from the Paddock on account of his neb (1-0, Alan Whittle) but he gave plenty back! Apart from Ron Davies and Allchurch the Welsh also had Wyn Davies and just a few years earlier the inestimable John Charles......... after that their CF DNA died, resulting in Toshack!
Andy Crooks
9 Posted 10/06/2019 at 22:08:43
Fantastic article, John. Mike Summerbee was a mate of George Best. They were special men and special players. Bestie had a boutique, a fucking boutique!!! And Mike Summerbee and Bestie chatted up birds in it. That was what they did after training (the language is deliberately of that era).

Eddie Gray never got the credit he deserved, in fact none of the Don's players did. He had a sweet left foot and great hair. (It mattered to me then.)

Did Ivor have a brother who could play? Also, John, what are your views on Peter Osgood. Do you recall Sir Alf (the greatest coach in history) neglecting him and Rodney Marsh?

Bill Watson
10 Posted 11/06/2019 at 13:35:36
Thanks John.

Summerbee was my favourite out of that lot. Fast and direct he always had a goal in him and could also look after himself.

I totally agree in regard to your comment about over protection of players in today's game. Also the superb playing surfaces we now have as opposed to the mud heaps and rutted surfaces of yesteryear.

Imagine how much better players like Young and Best would be if they were playing in today's conditions.

John McFarlane Snr
11 Posted 13/06/2019 at 15:11:50
Hi Dave [7], Don [8], Andy [9], and Bill [10]. apologies for the late response, it appeared to me that the thread had run it's course. On switching my lap-top on today I have discovered that this was not the case.

Hi Dave, [7] Tambling did indeed score in the Liverpool FA Cup 3rd round game, I believe [from memory] that Barry Bridges scored the other goal in a 2-1 win, and also [from a now fading memory] I believe that Chelsea were trailing to a Roger Hunt goal.

My abiding memory from that day is of a friend [sadly no longer with us] and I, running across Stanley Park following Everton's 3-0 victory over Sunderland. As Liverpool had kicked off later than Everton, play was still in progress, unfortunately we weren't able to get in. We taunted our 'red friends' by saying " You won the Cup after 73 years, and held on to it for 90 minutes".

Hi Don [8] you are correct in saying that Alf Ramsey did away with the traditional winger, which altered the game completely. In my opinion a change for the worse, because like any other change,it didn't take the League clubs long to follow suit, and as you say, many talented wingers were denied the opportunity of gaining international recognition.

Hi Andy [9] regarding the lack of international appearances, by Rodney Marsh and Peter Osgood, they were competing against the likes of Bobby Charlton, Martin Chivers, Jeff Astle, etc, and I suppose it was a case of one mans meat is another mans poison. I imagine that even managers have favourites, and that it also applies at international level.

Hi Bill [10] your choice of Mike Summerbee as your favourite of the recently published footballers of a bygone age, reinforces my belief that even managers are likely to favour individuals for a variety of reasons.

Regarding playing conditions, I often think of what players like Alex Young, Howard Kendall, George Best, and Denis Law may have achieved in today's game. [Lighter equipment, bowling green pitches, plus referee protection.]

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