Reader Comments (111)

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Rob Halligan
1 Posted 23/06/2019 at 19:10:54
Brian, it was a crazy game. VAR decisions were both right to allow the England second goal and also right to disallow the Cameroon goal. However, I can't understand why the Cameroon defender was not sent off for the deliberate elbow in the first few minutes of the match (did that get reviewed, as I can't remember?).

Also, the penalty incident for England should have been a penalty in my opinion, and finally the blatant over-the-top challenge and push on the England defender was a straight red but, after a VAR review, only a yellow card for the Cameroon player.

Dave Abrahams
2 Posted 23/06/2019 at 19:56:03
Fifteen minutes were added on this women’s game, mostly for VAR. Unless it is improved and modified, I doubt it will improve watching the game. People will miss the last bus at night games.
Geoff Lambert
3 Posted 23/06/2019 at 20:11:35
Would rather watch my son's Under-15 games. More skill and ball control than the world's best women footballers.imo.
Simon Smith
4 Posted 23/06/2019 at 20:14:05
It was hilarious. I’m sorry but the standard of football is terrible. And England are one of the better teams.
Andrew Ellams
5 Posted 23/06/2019 at 20:22:19
I know VAR showed the Cameroon goal and the Lindgard one vs the Dutch recently were offside but is a toenail length margin like those really in the spirit of the game?

DRS in cricket gives the umpire the chance to stick by their original decision if they are that close and potentially ambiguous.

Stan Schofield
6 Posted 23/06/2019 at 20:23:47
The hyping of this tournament, particularly on the BBC, has been ludicrous, utterly disproportionate to the quality on offer.
Michael Kenrick
7 Posted 23/06/2019 at 20:25:55
Yea, it's tough to watch. Quality is basically shocking. Reminds me of the rare occasions when I have attended MLS games. I find them unwatchable.

But there were at least a lot of talking points in this game. England scored well from an offence that now seems rarely called in the men's senior game: indirect free-kick for a pass back to the keeper. Maybe that's such a basic mistake that's been almost eradicated from the men's game? Or a sign of the poor quality of senior refereeing, where it's so often waved away?

And another VAR moment now in the France vs Brazil game. A fine goal, I thought, and rightly given to France, despite the contentious challenge for the ball with the goalkeeper.

Michael Kenrick
8 Posted 23/06/2019 at 20:27:48
In replay, very reminiscent of Andy Gray in the 1984 FA Cup Final, in one view it appears to be headed out of Barabara's hands!

And now disallowed! I think I now officially hate VAR.

Simon Smith
9 Posted 23/06/2019 at 20:31:31
Even the atmosphere at the stadiums is different. It comes across to me like an athletics meeting, or a Davis Cup tennis match.

Very un-football-like.

Tony Abrahams
10 Posted 23/06/2019 at 20:31:33
Everything is becoming so black and white, with regards the introduction of VAR, but the biggest concern is going to be about the consistency which could vary game to game, especially on things like tackles and fouls, or penalties, with different people having totally different interpretations?

Simon Smith
11 Posted 23/06/2019 at 20:35:38
If anyone is watching and just saw that attempted cross from the Brazilian! My god, that sums it up.
Michael Kenrick
12 Posted 23/06/2019 at 21:04:10
Good words from Phil Neville, credit for that. I think what he said about Cameroon was spot-on. No doubt he's earnt a severe censure from Fifa!
Brian Williams
13 Posted 23/06/2019 at 21:24:00
Have to say I've watched a fair few of the games and although overall the quality is lacking there ARE some passages of play which have been really good. Admittedly there may only be half-a-dozen per game when they happen it shows what's possible.

Where it's more than usually lacking is in the final ball which seems to be played weakly with the players head down. The USA are streets ahead of most, if not all, the other nations which goes to show what proper investment (and a huge population) can do in a relatively short space of time.

Andy Crooks
14 Posted 23/06/2019 at 21:25:26
Some poor stuff on this thread. "The quality is shocking" compared to what? Barcelona? The idea of women playing football seems to piss off some. I have watched some cracking games and I think Phil Neville has handled a tricky job brilliantly.
Simon Smith
15 Posted 23/06/2019 at 21:29:38
No Andy,

Just comparing it to men’s football in general. The quality is much lower.

Dave Abrahams
16 Posted 23/06/2019 at 21:31:32
Brian (13), I agree some of the players have surprised me with their skill and football movement, Bronze, Kirby, Parris (a Scousess) and Scott for England, while others less so, but it is a growing game with the ladies and it has been enjoyable for me.
Fran Mitchell
17 Posted 23/06/2019 at 21:35:22
Those criticising the quality? Erm, anyone watch most male football games? Players miss placing passes, rolling over like they the got hit by a car at the slightest touch, countless corners that don't beat the first man. and all that with world-class facilities, unlimited financial resources, and professional development training from the ages of 6/7.

In Brazil, women's football begins only from 15 years of age. i.e. When Rooney was breaking into the first team, Martha was for the first time playing for a football club. Then add the fact that most women don't have boots designed for the female body, that they receive less money, and miss out on all level of pamperings the men get, ridiculing the "quality" is just pathetic.

Heck, when we had Allardyce as manager nobody said "bloody men's football, sums it up really".

Brian Williams
18 Posted 23/06/2019 at 21:43:22
Dave #16.

The city's well represented with Parris, Duggan and Greenwood all starters. Parris, for me, is the best of the three despite Duggan being a Barca star.

It was Parris in England's last game that was one of the best bits of skill I've seen so far when she went down the right wing and switched the ball from left foot to right foot and back to pass the defender as good as any premier league player I've seen do it.

The thing is, which is to be expected, is that that level is the exception rather than the norm. Hasn't stopped me enjoying it though!

Simon Smith
19 Posted 23/06/2019 at 21:44:29
I’m comparing the men’s World Cup to the women’s World Cup, which would be the obvious comparison.

I am absolutely certain in my mind that there is a huge gulf in quality.
I’ve actually watched a few games and enjoyed them, but for different reasons.

We should be able to criticise mistakes in the women’s game in the same way we do the men’s.

John Pierce
20 Posted 23/06/2019 at 21:46:24
Eds, well done for putting a page for this up.

The implementation of VAR has been weak, the referees are showing zero confidence in their decision-making and it feels like they are relying on the technology to bail them out. I think the training is lacking.

As for the quality, it might be worth remembering how poor men's World Cups have been, especially the early stages, 1990 & 1994, for example... stinkers.

France's disallowed goal, on balance correctly ruled out, the French player's follow through was significant just like a tackle on the floor with the same characteristics, unlike Gray's were he barely, if at all, touched Sherwood.

Andy Crooks
21 Posted 23/06/2019 at 21:54:11
Good post, Fran.

At the last World Cup, I wrote an article for the YWCA, yes, not cool, I know. I asked anyone interested to look at what happened at corners. The women defended with skill and within the rules. In the men's game, they cheat.

The men's game is corrupted with cheats, fakes and men who are without shame. The women's game will go the same way but not quite yet.

Will referees ever look at the cheating that goes on at corners? Will one of them ever grow a pair of balls and send four of the cheating cunts off???

Andrew Ellams
22 Posted 23/06/2019 at 22:16:17
So next year, when female athletes are winning Olympic gold medals, we'll all be saying it's all good but they're no Usain Bolt or Mo Farah? Seems to be a lot of guys around at the moment with bruised egos seeing so many women with more ability than they will ever have.
Dennis Stevens
23 Posted 23/06/2019 at 22:19:38
I have seen very little women's football over the years but, even to my eyes, it's clear that the standard has improved dramatically, both in terms of skill and athleticism. However, the women's game is, understandably, still light-years behind the men's... although I have no doubt that gap will rapidly close as the women's game continues to develop and grow.
Simon Smith
24 Posted 23/06/2019 at 22:23:32
Andrew, in response to your post, I would bet my house that the gold medal winner of the Women's 100m sprint is slower than Usain Bolt! So you're correct in saying they're no Usain Bolt!
David Pearl
25 Posted 23/06/2019 at 22:52:34

Allardyce had a defence of Kenny, Keane, Williams and Martina. And he still was able to finish 8th and had us defending well from when he took over. Some might say he's not that bad really. Some might say he's a genius.

Anyway, I reckon Everton Under-16s would beat the National Women's side. I'm all for equality in every sense of the word, as much as my own prejudice lets me. We all have it. The world is rightly pushing for the women's game and a balance in coverage and respect. That's not to say it ain't painful to watch. But it is.

I'm looking forward to parallel parking becoming an Olympic event. Would the men and women still be competing separately? In fact, joking aside, wouldn't that be something to aspire to? Wouldn't that be real equality? Anyway... sorry I've gone all serious. Didn't mean to.

Andy Crooks
26 Posted 23/06/2019 at 22:56:56
David, behave your self!!!
Mike Gaynes
27 Posted 23/06/2019 at 23:38:38
Dennis #23, good post. I too think the quality of the women's game has massively improved in a very short period of time, both strategically and in individual technical skill. The athleticism is impressive. And the women don't scream and take dives in the area or go rolling across the pitch with every foul. I'm finding these games enjoyable.

Now waiting for Simon's 7th post on how poor it is.

Jamie Crowley
28 Posted 23/06/2019 at 23:51:05
Brian -

I'm glad you posted this. I was going to, but decided not to.

The point of my desire to start a thread was to commend Everton ex-Captain, Phil Neville, on his interview after the game.

Phil was never my cup of tea, and I think he's more Manc than Blue in the end to be sure, but he was brilliant after the game calling out Cameroon and their pathetic, immature, childish displays.

Well done Phil.

And I personally have enjoyed the Women's World Cup. They aren't near as fast or strong as the men, nor do I believe it's even close to the level of the men, but it's enjoyable to watch.

My USA acted terribly, in my opinion, to start the tournament by basically running up the score against Thailand and "over-celebrating" goals that were definably piling on. I actually think it helped bring more attention to the tournament. Nothing like Ugly American headlines to engage the world and have someone to root against!

I'm the furthest thing from a "PC" guy you'll ever find. But I think the women's game is growing, and I'm happy it is.

Brian @ 13 -

The USA are streets ahead of most, if not all, the other nations which goes to show what proper investment (and a huge population) can do in a relatively short space of time.

If that's the case, why is our Men's Team so incredibly shite?!!! Drives me batshit crazy. Our Men's Team simply must improve and qualify for 2022. If they don't I'd support riots in the streets. Embarrassing. If we don't make the final of the Gold Cup, I'll be livid. 300 million people, and we can't beat countries that have 4 million or so. It infuriates me. I want our Men's Team to be successful so badly.

I digress. Well done Phil Neville!

David Pearl
29 Posted 24/06/2019 at 00:18:31

I'm sure the time will come when the USA can boast a real team. Football is number 1 team sport in nearly every developed country in the world. Its 5th for you isn't it?

Surely the MLS gives your college system graduates a carrot to aim for? You need a young generation to come through and some day you could be as good as Wales or Scotland.

Seriously though they have to develop a young team and try to bring them through together. As you said theres enough of you that you'd imagine it can happen.

As for England. Southgate has now lost whatever momentum we thought he'd got going. And the women? Who knows. I don't. I will follow it out of curiosity and hope we do well. On the international scene I usually follow whichever UK side had most Everton players.

Jamie Crowley
30 Posted 24/06/2019 at 03:28:59
David -

You unknowingly hit a very sensitive spot with me.

USA College soccer.

Most top collegiate programs are fielded with foreign players. Germans, Scots, Nigerians, English, Irish, etc. In my view these players are no better than our American kids.

The soccer programs collegiately here are overseen by ADs - Athletic Directors. Their cash cow is American Football, and they know little, if nothing, about soccer. So when they hear a soccer coach brought in a recruiting class of foreigners, they rejoice and say well done.

All the while placing a Trump-sized wall up for the American kids to play collegiately.

Very few American kids play D1 (highest level) soccer.

My second son and third sons both received D3 offers to play collegiately. Those (D3) are smaller schools with smaller programs that can not offer scholarships. Now the second son was offered, through smoke and mirror financing, $42,000 PER YEAR to play at Case Western Reserve University, again a D3 program.

The problem? Case Western is $60,000 per year.

He turned down the offer and went to Florida State in Tallahassee, Florida, where he literally goes FOR FREE.

College soccer is a brick wall for most American kids to further their playing "career".

The best kids do rise through the ranks. But nepotism abounds, there's pay-to-play that means we here in my area, pay $1600 per season for a kid to kick a ball around a field of grass at the younger ages. Our local Club demands the families buy full Nike kits for uniforms that totals another $300, and that's before the travel. The program gets a very healthy "kick back" financially for all the families buying the Nike uniforms and practice gear. SEVEN YEAR OLDS have to buy Nike stuff! It's mandatory, and it's insane. All because the Club gets a shit-ton of money back with which to pay the brass with. It's a racquet!

The best teams "travel" and there's hotels, meals, gas, etc.

One year my wife kept a spreadsheet and our family, who at the time had 4 kids playing, paid over $10,000 that year for my kids to play soccer.

I could go on and on for absolutely HOURS about USA soccer and how crooked it is.

That young crop of American players you speak of? Our National head coach left Josh Sargeant off the team - a 20 year old with tons of promise. He also left our own Antonee Robinson off the roster for the Gold Cup. Mike Gaynes might have more insight (he definably will, more than I), but I've seen both those kids play and if America is interested in bringing along a future generation, those two CERTAINLY make the team ahead of Tim Ream and Josse (sp?) Zardes!!!

Our system is completely fucked up. The people in power care more about the bank balance and their income than they do winning.

Someone give me carte blanche to write a 5000 word essay on the topic, and I'll tell you the whole story.

In short, we suck. And I hate that white-trash word, but there's no other descriptor more apt. We're an absolute fucking mess of a National program.

And I still want them to win so bad I'd give an arm to see them reach a World Cup final.

But our women do kill it. And I think a lot of that is they don't lose collegiate spots to foreigners because the rest of the world lags behind us in opportunity for women - and entirely good and wholesome thing from an American perspective, and one to be proud of.

PHEW! I'm tired. Rant over.

Jamie Crowley
31 Posted 24/06/2019 at 03:49:15
Andy Crooks @ 21 -

Amen. One reason I truly enjoy watching the women play. Hard, honest, good football, despite being slower and lacking the quality of the men.

It's a joy to watch, if you can just stop asking yourself for two seconds, "do those players have a penis, or a vagina?"

Who really fucking cares!

Is the game played with passion? Do they play at maximum effort while representing their countries? Do they play an honest game, with integrity?

You bet they do. Go on ladies, show the men how it should be done.

John Pierce
32 Posted 24/06/2019 at 04:04:06

It's been a while! Hope all is well. It's not often I'm taken with a post. However, I'm smitten. You know my role in College sports is an official but I do some coaching and age group stuff. Word for word, your post is exactly what is wrong with sport and scholarships in the US, of course, it's widespread and other sports suffer in a similar vein.

The kickbacks, the outlay and the barriers it sets up socio-economically outrage me at times. It's worth a thesis of any budding major at school for sure. It's cray cray!

Jamie Crowley
33 Posted 24/06/2019 at 04:15:10
Sir John -

The kick backs, the out lay and the barriers it sets up socio-economically outrage me at times.

Just - YES!

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

The US Soccer system is entirely un-American.

Then again, so is our President with his Wall, so I guess it should come as no surprise.

And people think Brexit is fucked up. Shit. You got nothing on America at the moment.

Mike Gaynes
34 Posted 24/06/2019 at 05:18:49
Jamie, simply brilliant, but hey, don't hold back, mate. Tell us how you really feel.

You are absolutely right in everything you say, and I can't be one bit more insightful than you on this, but you didn't quite finish off the move. One key additional point is that the economic barrier isn't just economic, it's anti-Latino. Millions of Hispanic kids who play for the love of the sport never get a chance to crack the US system. And it pisses them off. The best of 'em play through the youth system and then sign for Mexico internationally. I'm playing with two right now who might very well have been national-caliber at 16. They now play Sunday league and work in a cheese factory. Never came close to getting a shot. MLS tryout camps are now offering at least a slight chance.

A few comments regarding some of your other points:

The US women's dominance, really since the 1990's, is a result of Title IX. They DID come through college. In women's soccer particularly, international success is in direct proportion to the financial support from the government or institutions. China dropped off the top of the world when the money was shifted to other sports.

I half agree with you on USA/Thailand. Running up the score is entirely appropriate when A) goal differential matters and B) you use all your subs. What infuriated me was the choreographed goal celebrations at 11-0 and 12-0 -- and Abby Wambach crying "sexism" when the issue was raised.

I half agree with you on Sargent and Robinson being dropped. Robinson just wasn't dialed in to the new system yet. I doubt it will happen again. (And we're a little off on the timing of the Sargent complaint, since Zardes was MOTM last night.) But the new USA manager does have the side playing a more attractive, professional brand of soccer... which isn't saying much. We do still suck.

It's also worth noting that the two best players turning out right now for the US, Pulisic and McKennie, have the same thing in common -- they told the US collegiate system to go fuck itself and went to Europe for academy training.

Again, great posts.

Darren Hind
35 Posted 24/06/2019 at 06:07:30
They've come on leaps and bounds.

You have to remember that the ladies game at this level is still in its infancy. I envisage women's football to replicate women's tennis. a different, but very watchable game to the men's.

Actually, it doesn't matter what we think. The girls are on the march. Anyone who is married, loved up, grew up with an older sister, or has a daughter will know the wisest thing to do is step aside and let them through. Otherwise, they'll simply run over you.

Lyndon Lloyd
36 Posted 24/06/2019 at 06:38:55
I agree with Darren here. There's very little point in comparing the women's game with the men's but it has come on in impressive leaps and bounds over the past couple of decades, particularly in terms of speed, physicality and ball control, and is much more competitive.

Yet the biggest issue still when watching the women's World Cup is the disparity between the best and worst nations – the gulf in class is ridiculous, as the USA-Thailand scoreline illustrated – and that's why it'll get better from here on in.

But the top teams play some really good stuff and England, for example, are a decent passing outfit.

Tough to watch? I've found the matches I've tuned into to have been highly entertaining, ruined only by VAR which really has me fearing its introduction to the Premier League this coming season. Some of the hairline decisions have been terrible – a disconcerting inability (or unwillingness at this stage) to discern between the letter of the law and spirit of the law.

Stan Schofield
37 Posted 24/06/2019 at 10:20:36
There are some posts on here which state that the quality of this tournament has been poor. One of those posts is mine, which also says that the hyping of the tournament, particularly by the BBC, is disproportionate to this quality.

There are other posts which criticise the above posts, but unfortunately extrapolate the criticism to imply the comments on poor quality are also sexist comments and/or comments arising from ego issues.

To those posters who do this extrapolation, you should be mindful of the fact that extrapolation is a very dodgy thing to do, and that comments about the quality of the tournament can be just that, comments about quality.

Michael Lynch
38 Posted 24/06/2019 at 11:01:12
I generally agree with Lydon's points @36, the women's game is only just beginning to organise itself properly and it will get better. I know a few teenage girls who are playing for the development squads at clubs around England who are as dedicated to the game – if not more dedicated – than any teenage boy.

The only way the game will improve is if more girls are encouraged to take part at a young age and to take it seriously. Many of us with daughters will have seen how few of them play team sports once they hit the teenage years compared to boys. Football can turn that around.

If I have any criticism of the current media coverage, it's the pretence that the women's game is already equivalent in stature to the men's game – it clearly isn't, as witnessed by the empty stadia and low viewing figures. Having said that, the growth will only come with increased accessibility, so fair play to the BBC for giving so much time to coverage.

I also agree with Lyndon about VAR – it's been a disaster at the World Cup in my view. As it was in the men's Nations Cup earlier this month. The "toe's length" offside decisions don't work for me, and I don't see a way of getting round it. In an ideal world, decisions would only be overturned if it should have been clearly spotted in real time by the naked eye – glaring mistakes in other words. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be viable. We're doomed this season to endless delays and countless disallowed goals.

Simon Smith
39 Posted 24/06/2019 at 11:19:01
So sorry mike, I hadn’t realised I’d used up my quota of comments on the post.
James Marshall
40 Posted 24/06/2019 at 12:26:40
I've only skim-read the thread but I got the impression there's a bit of a barny going on. Personally, I'm really enjoying the games, and yes there is some disparity in the levels of ability from country to country but the lesser countries have got better.

Apart from that some of the games have been really good to watch. France vs Brazil last night was a highly entertaining and competitive game played at a decent pace. I find the women's game can actually be quite refreshing to watch versus the men's game – less hard tackling and more about movement which makes a change.

English (men's) football is all 'up & at em' which is quite tiring viewing when you're old like I am, so seeing people actually have a little bit of time & space makes it quite pleasant to watch.

One of the problems the games are suffering from is piss-poor officiating though. The referees have not done themselves proud and way too many VAR checks (I fucking hate VAR).

Also, Valerie Gauvin & Kathellen Sousa both caught my attention more than most last night. Both good players. Very easy on the eye.

Eddie Dunn
41 Posted 24/06/2019 at 12:49:53
The main problem with women's football is the size of the pitch and the dimensions of the goals. It reminds me of when the male First Division had goalies of well under 6 foot – there were a lot more 30 yarders going in to top corners back then.

It seems logical that the goals should be reduced in height and width, and the pitches shortened by a few yards. Then the game will not have keepers beaten routinely by speculative shots/headers making the keepers look poor and the outfield players looking for easy goals.

A reduction in the dimensions of the pitch would allow the ladies to cover the ground at a faster pace making their product look less pedestrian. Other than these changes, I also concur with others above that the attitude in general of the athletes is refreshing with a lot less simulation and histrionics on view.

Tom Bowers
42 Posted 24/06/2019 at 13:12:55
Women's soccer is good and I applaud the progress it has made over the years. It is not, however, on a par with the top men's game but can be quite interesting at times as a spectacle.

I think VAR is still a great option and will be accepted as soon as all the players, no matter what competition, are educated in accepting it's decisions without whining as they are still doing.

Obviously, Cameroon's women are not in sync with the new technology.

Tony Abrahams
43 Posted 24/06/2019 at 13:15:50
It's football played at a slower pace, but with loads of good skill and talented players on the pitch. I saw the stat for Scottwhen she was subbed and she had ran over 8k in 76 mins, which is probably comparable to the men?

Jamie C, loved your post about the jobs for the boys, and the closed shop for the American kids, which tells me there must be an Englishman at the very top, behind the scenes!

I loved your passion, more than the actual post Jamie, because I find it sad when people aren't given the proper opportunities to progress, and this sounds like this is what's happening to loads of young American kids.

Look at England; I feel exactly the same way, because the talent is definitely there, and most of the time it seems to me that the coaching is holding us back.

Thomas Lennon
44 Posted 24/06/2019 at 14:10:59
If anything, this is a typically British thread in parts. The England women are doing well, have a decent chance of winning this tournament, won an international tournament not long ago, so let's denigrate the standard... so, even if they do win, they haven't beaten anyone?

All you can do in any sport is beat what is put in front of you. The standard of play is unrecognisable compared to just a few years ago. Give them credit, the female version of the game is always likely to be different when compared with the male version.

John Pierce
45 Posted 24/06/2019 at 14:54:20

I think it would be worth taking another look at the first part of your post. I would proffer that if you suggested those changes to the women's game you'd get a mostly negative response, I think the thin ice would well and truly have melted!

The key to the improvements is making ALL players professional and full time, given the same opportunity, funding and coverage to produce better players as the men.

There are few, if any examples, I can think of were the field dimensions are changed for women. That is shaky ground. Would you change pitch dimensions for men of lower caliber?

Making a pitch smaller doesn't make someone faster right? You might consider duration as a possible element to change, but even that I would think would feel insulting.

It's about opportunity, for example, look at tennis, and even golf. I'd argue I prefer to watch women's tennis as a product because there is less power and more skill. Make the product professional across the globe and the standard will rise very quickly.

Mike Gaynes
46 Posted 24/06/2019 at 15:36:43
Eddie #41, it's been suggested at times that the women play with smaller goals and smaller fields, and it got a vehement rejection from the players. They want to play the same game as the men. And there's precedent to support it -- women's pro basketball is growing nicely around the world, even as they play with the same 10-foot rim as the men, just with a slightly smaller ball. Less dunking but better shooting.

Besides, it wouldn't be practical or financially feasible to create a smaller goal for the women. Schools would have to buy two sets, one for each gender.

Stan Schofield
47 Posted 24/06/2019 at 15:57:56
The last World Cup in the men's football was quite mediocre, and beset with cheating, including the final, where the course of the game was changed by cheating. In this respect, men's football at the top has become less appealing, and for me personally, I now only watch Everton games in full, since I've generally lost interest in other teams. It's only the Everton in my blood that keeps me going.

Regarding the women's game, I also find that quite mediocre, consistently so because there's generally little quality. No doubt the game will improve as youngsters at earlier ages get involved and coached, but currently it's quite tedious.

If and when the women's game does improve a lot, there's a good chance that with more money injected into it that it too will be beset by cheating. Where there's big money, there's cheating, male or female. Then it will likely become unappealing for the same reason that the men's top game is unappealing.

Contrasting the last men's World Cup with the men's under-20s World Cup which England won (with four Everton players), the latter was relatively entertaining, plenty of quality on show. But it hardly got a mention in the media.

Regardless of whether we're talking about men's or women's football, it's quite legitimate to comment about mediocrity just as it is about quality. The trouble is with this thread, as has happened with some other threads on ToffeeWeb where women are mentioned, the subject seems to quickly veer off the topic and onto other subjects of a more gender political nature. Here, there seems to be an overly defensive response to any criticisms of women, that could be interpreted as patronising to women.

Lyndon Lloyd
48 Posted 24/06/2019 at 17:57:21
Michael L (38) The "toe's length" offside decisions don't work for me, and I don't see a way of getting round it.

I'm heartened somewhat by the Premier League's decision not to review goalkeepers' positioning on the line and deferring to the on-field officials for penalty kicks. It shows that there can be a measure of common-sense deviation by individual leagues from the harder line approach we've witnessed during the Women's World Cup.

The problem with the offside rule is that it has to be rigorously applied but, as someone on Twitter said the other day, it's original intent was to prevent goal-hanging. It wasn't ever designed to be pored over on a video screen and decided by a matter of inches.

For me, they should change the rule so that there has to be daylight between the torso of the attacker and the last defender. Eliminate this notion of a body part capable of scoring a goal was an inch ahead of the defender's heel, etc. Make it so that if there is visible separation between the players' bodies, it's offside. That would make it clearer, in my opinion, and also give a bit more edge to the attacker than the current rule.

Darren Hind
49 Posted 24/06/2019 at 18:03:15

We already have the tape measures out. How long before somebody insists that the tape measures are calibrated?

Jamie Crowley
50 Posted 24/06/2019 at 18:11:01
Stan -

I think most of the comments are pretty fair. While recognizing the women’s game isn’t to the skill level of the men, most are enjoying the women’s World Cup and see improvement in the ladies game the past 10 to 15 years.

A bit of a tangent, but society has definitely been force-feeding female power on us the last 5 or so years. Just ask anyone who likes comics for example - the DC Universe has gone straight PC girl-power the last 5-7 years. And that’s just one example in prevalent art, movies, and culture.

If you can separate that social dynamic from the soccer, the soccer is darned good and enjoyable.

Watching this USA - Spain game for example is a real treat for me. Great game thusfar, whether or not it’s men or women.

I’m not a PC guy. Frankly, I hate PC in all it’s iterations. But this Women’s World Cup is fun for me. And I don’t care if it’s women, men, or Martians playing.

There’s a weird line between getting defensive, and supporting the women’s soccer development. I don’t know where that line is, or how you define it.

I just like watching these ladies play and wish their game all the success it can garner.

Ladies soccer seems to me to be an organic, natural development for women. And I love it. It’s not some effort by movie execs, the corporate world, or the media to force-feed an agenda down our throats.

Dangerous analysis, but one I think worthy of stating an opinion on. Whether you agree or not. And if you don’t, lemme know.

Contrarian opinions on TW are what make me think, and view topics through a different lens.

The real beauty of TW I’d argue.

Darren Hind
51 Posted 24/06/2019 at 18:29:24
Jamie, consider yourself lucky that society has only started force-feeding female power on you for the past five years.

I love my sister dearly, but she started force-feeding me 60 years ago and she is still doing it today.

Stan Schofield
52 Posted 24/06/2019 at 18:59:13
Jamie, I take your point about the force-feeding. So far as I can see, it's one kind of political bullshit (the traditional old boy's club variety) at one end of a gender spectrum, and another kind of political bullshit (the various strands of neo-feminism variety) at the other end of the spectrum. Reality lies between these extremes.

For me, I have to see enough mediocrity with Everton, and I don't wish to see other mediocrity on top of that. So women's football, for me, holds little interest, because I demand quality outside of Everton.

If the quality improves, fine, I might start watching more of it. In the meantime, I don't much care for the overhyping typical of BBC propaganda, any more than I care for the overhyping of, say, our neighbour's across the park. Similarly, I don't much care for the habitual overly-defensive responses I see on ToffeeWeb when a woman is criticised. It's tedious, particularly in its repetition, and spoils the attraction of ToffeeWeb.

Steve Ferns
53 Posted 24/06/2019 at 19:07:57
I haven't seen any of the live games for this Women's World Cup.

The BBC did pique my interest with the hyperbole as stated above, so I clicked on one of their links to watch some wonder goals. One was a 30 yarder. Instead of being a rocket into the corner which gave the keeper no chance, it was one that if it beat Pickford, he'd be lambasted. In fact, I think it's no exaggeration to say a Sunday league keeper would get a few eye-brows for letting it in.

All of the "great goals" I have seen have been examples of diabolical goalkeeping. Some of the dribbling and close control is sublime for sure, but the shooting lacks the power and accuracy you expect from the elite level of the men's game.

But ultimately it's not the elite level of the men's game and it's got a long way to go. Fair play to those who enjoy it, but it's not for me.

Martin Nicholls
54 Posted 24/06/2019 at 19:19:15
Whatever happened to the "clear and obvious error" criterion that was supposed to be the trigger for implementation of VAR?
Ed Prytherch
55 Posted 24/06/2019 at 20:26:40
Hey Jamie, You don't like Trump but he invited Wayne Rooney to the White House Christmas party. That is more recognition than he is likely to receive from the rulers of England.
John Pierce
56 Posted 24/06/2019 at 20:27:49
Steve, you support a team that has been elite in name only for 35 years yet you watch them.

Jay Wood

57 Posted 24/06/2019 at 20:56:16
Without being an avid watcher of any and every game of the Women's World Cup, I've had both the Brazilian and English teams to keep me interested and for the most part I've been entertained.

For me, standards in women's football are evidently vastly improved. I've seen some excellent technique, movement and tactics, plus some impressive individuals. I think it's an exercise in futility to make a direct comparison between men's and women's football, in the same way you would not expect the same skill sets or strength when switching between men's and women's tennis at the highest level.

That said, it's only in very recent years that women's tennis, after a hard and fierce lobby, won equal prize money rewards with Wimbledon the last of the Grand Slam venues to grant it.

The campaign some are pushing for – equal pay for women and men footballers – does not have a direct parallel with men's and women's tennis, however. The WTF has ensured good sponsorship deals, run a well organized and funded tennis circuit all year round, with joint events with both male and female players on display, including mixed doubles, all of which appeals to television audiences.

The very best men on the tennis circuit would always beat the very best women, but the very best women would – and do, on occasion, in exhibition matches – beat decent lower ranked men.

Women's football, by contrast, is not as commercially appealing as women's tennis. Did I read tickets for the current World Cup are available for as little as €9? As such its professional players cannot expect to get anywhere near the parity they are seeking to their male counterparts.

Incrementally, as standards and audience appeal improves, professional women footballers I imagine will reap higher financial rewards. But 'the product' will always lag behind the men's game, I fancy, and as such equality in pay is but a pipe dream.

As for the 'PC' stuff, the BBC has very few major live sporting events it can promote these days, so I'm not surprised they are going 'large' on everything about the Women's World Cup. Not an issue for me.

What is very real (and evidently anathema to some) is that women's football has been prejudiced against and is only now correcting that imbalance. Here, in football-mad Brazil, for example, It was ILLEGAL for women to play football from 1941 to 1979. Think about that!!

How many generations of would-be female footballers might have been inspired to play the game after Brazil won the WC in 1958, 1962 and again with the glorious team of 1970, but would literally have committed a 'crime' if they attempted to do so? It is still an issue in some cultures and nations that persists with the sexist notion that football is not a sport for women.

It's not being overly 'PC' or flippant about misogyny to acknowledge those historical and contemporary facts.

Stan Schofield
58 Posted 24/06/2019 at 20:57:05
John, I also watch Everton despite us being shite, but it's not through any rational choice. My watching any other shite is limited or prevented by rational choice. On this basis, any interest in women's football on my part is very limited. I have to prioritise my interests rationally, and Everton doesn't come into that.

Jay, historical facts about prejudices are irrelevant (to me) in the context of my seeking entertainment through quality. Similarly, current political prejudices, including those from strands of neo-feminism, are also irrelevant (to me).

Mike Gaynes
59 Posted 24/06/2019 at 21:11:57
Absolute cracker of a game between the US and Spain today -- as physical as any men's game I've seen recently. Anybody who couldn't be entertained by that game must be comatose.
Jay Wood

60 Posted 24/06/2019 at 21:19:56
Wasn't calling you or anybody else out, Stan. Nor does it matter either way to me if what you list is 'relevant' or not to any individual and their viewing preference.
John Pierce
61 Posted 24/06/2019 at 21:32:18
Mike it was an excellent game. Spain played completely differently and pressed, broke up the game, fouled persistently and it worked. Morgan was kicked out of the game, she didn’t relish it at all. What did you think of the 2nd penalty?
Mike Gaynes
62 Posted 24/06/2019 at 21:34:25
Thought it was a bit soft but legit, John. The contact was evident, but I don't think the US could have had too much complaint if the ref had waved play on. What did you think?
John Pierce
63 Posted 24/06/2019 at 21:40:34
I saw the defender deflect the ball and then the contact that followed was imo incidental. Thought it was very marginal. Unsatisfactory if you like, because you have to 100% sure and I can’t see how she could be.

I think I could sell both!! 😜

Mike Gaynes
64 Posted 24/06/2019 at 21:44:32
John, if you see another replay you'll note that touch on the ball was by the attacker, not the defender. The defender didn't get any. That's why I'm calling it a marginally legit pen.
Andy Crooks
65 Posted 24/06/2019 at 21:48:08
Jay, @ 57, good post. Stan, I consider you to be one of the most reasonable and balanced posters on this site. I just do not understand your comments on this thread.

I have thoroughly enjoyed this tournament but there are posts on this thread that are just jaw-dropping. If you don't like women playing football don't watch it and don't come on ToffeeWeb to moan about it.... BBC Propaganda? FFS!

John Pierce
66 Posted 24/06/2019 at 21:55:45
Mike you could be right, there Deffo was deflection, I just dunno nowadays, in real time I would never give it.
Stan Schofield
67 Posted 24/06/2019 at 22:18:31
Andy, get a grip! The thread invites comments about the Women's World Cup, so I've commented about the quality of football. You've jumped to interpreting that as my not liking women playing football!!

You know very little about me, so making personal assertions like that is simply stupid. Also, I'm not moaning at all, simply commenting on what looks to me like overhyping by the BBC.

Your post looks like yet another defensive response to legitimate comments about quality.

Andy Crooks
68 Posted 24/06/2019 at 22:26:37
Stan, I have looked at my post again. After "like" I meant to put "watching". For me to say that you don't like women playing football would be crass, indeed. Not what I intended. Apologies.
Oliver Molloy
69 Posted 24/06/2019 at 22:27:17
What the Women's World Cup is showing is what a fucking nightmare this VAR is going to be a lot of the time.
Stan Schofield
70 Posted 24/06/2019 at 22:49:04
Andy, fair do's mate.
Geoff Lambert
71 Posted 24/06/2019 at 22:59:33
Andy! "Don't watch it and don't come on ToffeeWeb to moan about it."

That's what this thread is for, to give your own opinion about the Women's World Cup. If that's okay with yerself?

Andrew Keatley
72 Posted 24/06/2019 at 23:44:49
I have been enjoying the Women's World Cup thus far, and some of the play has been truly excellent.

As far as England are concerned, Neville seems to favour Duggan and Parris – both of whom have been largely disappointing thus far; Rachel Daly was superb against Japan, as was Georgia Stanway, and I'd be keen to see them given more opportunities.

Ellen White's movement and finishing has been excellent, and in Lucy Bronze we have one of the stand-out players in the women's game. Her strength, skill and athleticism puts some of her first-teamers to shame.

Darren Hind
73 Posted 25/06/2019 at 06:02:18
"The campaign some are pushing for - equal pay for women and men footballers"

What ???... There's a campaign ???

By who? Where? When?

Michael Kenrick
74 Posted 25/06/2019 at 06:29:16
Darren, the American women are suing the US Soccer Federation for equal pay.
John Keating
75 Posted 25/06/2019 at 06:43:48
Oliver @69, Totally agree.

I think VAR should be binned asap and not thought of again unless a quicker system of verification can be used. Playing on after an event then stopping 2-3 minutes to look at VAR is daft.

Not just VAR needs reconsidering – look at this body shape thing in the penalty area like the Danny Rose incident last season. How the fuck can you throw yourself down with your hands behind your back? Stupid.

The game is being ruined by a bunch of corrupt officials. We all know game officials cock-up during the game; now they're handing over the cock-ups to some divi watching VAR.

It would be great to go back to the old rules and plain blue shirts with no sponsors all over them.

Matt Traynor
76 Posted 25/06/2019 at 06:58:48
Michael #74, I'll defer to our US contingent (including your good self) but I thought the issue was that the Women's National Team is simply generating oodles more cash in sponsorship than the Men's Team? And therefore the women are, not unreasonably, advocating that they get a bigger slice of that?

I'll refrain from my usual rant of how much corporate cash is now in sport globally, fuelling escalation in salaries, agents fees and ultimately pay-TV subscription and actual ticket prices.

Would be nice if these brands accepted they are making super-profits and either paid employees better, or reduced prices to the consumer, rather than funding Ronaldo's 8th Lambo this year...

Dammit, there I go again...

Alan J Thompson
77 Posted 25/06/2019 at 07:23:26
Lyndon (#48); I thought that the idea that a player was offside only if most of his body was ahead of the defender was adopted a few seasons ago but was dropped, on the quiet, as knowing what constituted the majority proved as problematic as if any part was. Admittedly, with the use of VAR (spits, counts to ten then resumes typing) it should be easier to see if there is daylight between players.

My preference is still to scrap VAR and have four linesmen, persons or assistants whichever causes least upset and controversy.

Tony Abrahams
78 Posted 25/06/2019 at 07:25:42
Football has sold its soul to the television “camera”.

Chris Gould
79 Posted 25/06/2019 at 07:42:27
VAR in its current format is a train crash. Obviously it's all trial and error at the moment, but I think they need to strip it back to its basics.

I would prefer it to be used to check the validity of goals, penalty claims, and acts of serious foul play missed by the ref. Everything else should be left to the officials on the pitch.

Too many breaks in play ruins the flow of the match, and it's making the game far more complicated than it should be.

Tony Abrahams
80 Posted 25/06/2019 at 08:33:37
It's not often serious foul play is missed, Chris, but if they went back to the camera and started sending people off for cheating, then maybe we wouldn't have to keep going back to the camera to check it from every different angle in the end?

Mike G calls the penalty a soft one; without seeing the incident, I can say I've seen loads of soft penalties given over the years, with television and their very comfortable pundits saying “He's touched him, so he's got every right to go down.” Then it's defending the cheats, which is definitely not the way forward, especially if your team is on the receiving end!

Michael Lynch
81 Posted 25/06/2019 at 08:43:57
One of my worries about VAR, and I have many worries, is that it will still favour the Sky clubs. Officials will become reluctant to use it too often (because there will be a fan/media backlash early in the season) and therefore the usual bias may creep in about when it is used.

We score against the Shite at Anfield, and we're bound to come under VAR scrutiny. The Shite score against us at Goodison and on you go son.

Paranoid? Me? Never!

Tony Abrahams
82 Posted 25/06/2019 at 14:40:59
If you're not paranoid Michael, I certainly am mate.

I wrote about Peter Walton, who has been the ref in the studio, (for crying out loud?) and he has already contradicted himself with regards handball, so the same bias will stay above the surface, and the media will gain even more control if that's possible?

I've even heard Martin Atkinson has asked to retire so he can now go and sit on “the behind the scenes panel” – which just goes to show how paranoid I really am!

Jay Wood

83 Posted 25/06/2019 at 15:10:43
Darren @ 73.

"The campaign some are pushing for - equal pay for women and men footballers"
What ???... There's a campaign ???
By who? Where? When?"


Do try and keep up, Darren. Just because you may not be aware of events doesn't mean they are not happening. (But then again, in your world...).

To add to Michael's response that the USA women's team is suing its own federation for equal pay with the men, I'm guessing you missed the big story ahead of the current Women's World Ccup that the current FIFA Women's Footballer of the Year, Ada Hegerberg of Norway, is not playing in protest as she continues to campaign for greater equality and recognition for women's football:

Ada Hegerberg: Why 'shaking things up' is more important than playing at Women's World Cup

John Pierce
84 Posted 25/06/2019 at 15:33:20
VAR is already experiencing mission creep. Whilst some leeway should be given to both team and officials, Women's football has hardly used VAR to date, mostly people are talking about it and not the football. That's a decent indicator things are not going well.

Offside was created to stop goal hangers, to give the game balance. The iteration we have now is technically sound but spiritually moribund. The marginal decision is frustrating because the player is not gaining a significant material advantage, use daylight as many have suggested and by definition you have a margin for error which reflects that significance. It would reduce the number of poor decisions to a trickle & allow the flag to go up immediately, reducing the chance of serious injury (which will happen soon enough) if we continue with keeping the flag down on marginal offsides.

I would in this instance reduce the scope of VAR to offside only, start small and get the mechanics right. Use those learned principles from a binary decision and slowly implement from there. It will give all parties time to adjust, and I think show a level of fairness to both defending and attacking sides. Lastly, ensure leagues do not have the right to have their own iteration.

What I fear most is those subjective calls are being manipulated into binary scenarios to make them eligible for VAR, which will give us a level of technical excellence but leave us cold at the monochrome game we have left.

Michael Kenrick
85 Posted 25/06/2019 at 17:01:37
Matt @76,

I think you're right, at least the seemingly odd disparity in sponsorship dollars has been part of the trigger.

What our UK audience (and others) may not know is that grassroots level development 'soccer' in the US has (for many years) been if anything stronger for young women than for young men. It's been a great option for athletic young women while young men have American Football and Baseball as the 'real' US sports for aspiration and advancement.

The disparity is still there at senior level: while the professional women's soccer game has very limited exposure, the MLS benefits from live TV coverage and great many imported rather than homegrown players. Hence Jamey Crowley's tirade at the US collegiate system, which is so engrained in the development of home talent for all other US sports.

I should add, this is just a sense I get living here without being involved at any level — I have done no research or reading on this and may be well off-base.

On a related note, perennial slamming of the BBC is common on here, someone even accusing them of 'propaganda' over the coverage of the Women's World Cup. What I noticed last season, at least on BBC Radio, was a sudden ramp up in interest in the women's game, which hardly got a mention in previous seasons. Now, we actually had live commentary of women's matches, a first for them, I believe.

I know it's important for your street cred to slam the BBC at regular intervals, but you should try living someplace where it's less available, and the local commercial media is in your face at every turn. Believe me, you don't appreciate what you've got until you ain't got it.

John McFarlane Snr
86 Posted 25/06/2019 at 17:16:03
I have watched a few of the Women's World Cup games, and have been both entertained and disappointed in equal measure. I feel that some posters are expecting too much of the 'girls' physically, as in most sports men have been proved to be faster and stronger. I have been impressed by the skills some of the girls involved have displayed, and I think that it is unfair to make comparison to the male footballers.

I agree with Tony Abrahams [78], Football has sold its soul to the television 'camera' — What I've witnessed at the Women's World Cup competition fills me with dread for the coming season. VAR will, in my opinion, produce as many controversial decisions as it solves. The only improvements I can see in recent years are the goal-line technology, and the spray to mark the 10 yards distance at free kicks.

I am realistic enough to accept that we will never regain the game that I and many others grew up watching, and at the risk of offending the American fans who visit this site, I believe that, in the not too distant future, Association Football will closely resemble American Football.

Andy Crooks
87 Posted 25/06/2019 at 19:27:59
VAR will be the ruination of the game. How many times have any of us come home from the game calling the ref all the fuckers of the day? Now we will, after an utterly shit delay, be calling the assistant ref a fucker.

It's gone too far, it's poisonous and it will destroy football. For those who argue that VAR could make a decision that would save a club from relegation, I would say the worst teams get relegated because they are shite; they have not been robbed.

Tony Abrahams
88 Posted 25/06/2019 at 19:47:25
I think there is a lot of sense spoken in John's post @84. Goal-line technology has been great, but the rush to push things on, much further than they really need to go, is eventually going to drain the greatest game in the world of all its emotion.
Rob Halligan
89 Posted 25/06/2019 at 19:57:39
Is every goal going to be scrutinised by VAR? Unless a player gets the ball about ten yards inside his own half and has a clear run on goal, and scores, I think near enough, every goal will be looked at as teams and supporters celebrate.

Games could go on until 5:30pm, and Anfield will be three-quarters empty as RS fans rush off for their planes and trains.

John Pierce
90 Posted 25/06/2019 at 21:49:08
The worst handball given for a penalty in the Japan - Netherlands game.

Ball blasted at the defender no than a meter or so. Game's gone.

Andrew Keatley
91 Posted 25/06/2019 at 21:57:24
This Japan v Netherlands game is excellent. Some of the football, particularly from Japan, has been brilliant.
John Pierce
92 Posted 25/06/2019 at 22:02:25
Superb game, the decision for the penalty was criminal. Player barely knew what had happened the ball was blasted at her from such a short distance away.

Deeply concerned for Mina at this point. He can barely keep his arms and legs in time!!! Walking pen next season poor lad.

Stan Schofield
93 Posted 26/06/2019 at 17:38:36
Michael @85: As someone who on this thread referred to BBC propaganda, I can assure that I raised it without desiring any 'street cred'.

To be honest, your penultimate sentence in the final paragraph is inappropriate, not becoming of a 'serious' debate. There is often a problem on ToffeeWeb, of folks making comments of a personal nature. There's really no need for it.

Tony Heron
94 Posted 26/06/2019 at 18:15:10
I hadn't watched any of the Women's World Cup until the Cameroon game. Leaving aside the controversy, I was pleasantly surprised by the quality and the movement of the ball by the England team. Sure it can't compare to the men's game in terms of skill levels, but I found it eminently more enjoyable if at times frustrating when moves broke down.

However, a big plus from me was the honesty in which the game is played. No rolling around to an extent where you would think the only option would be to give the last rights to an "injured" player, only for a miracle to occur on a par with Lazarus's return to life! No diving when someone breathes on you. Good on yer, girls, keep it going!

Albert Perkins
95 Posted 26/06/2019 at 19:15:56
The offside rule is still a real problem for me to get my head around.

For instance, the women's Australian own goal scored while the Brazil forward was in an offside position and not deemed interfering with play seems wrong. The defender would not have bothered to head the ball and left it to the goalie if the forward had not been there. She was contesting the ball. Help me here.

Albert Perkins
96 Posted 26/06/2019 at 19:25:54
About the difference in pay between women and men, particularly in the USA national teams. A recent article in The Guardian made some interesting points about the disparity.

"In its defense, US Soccer has also cited higher revenues and higher game attendance for the men's national team compared to the women. Historically, that's been a strong argument for the federation but not so much lately: since 2016 the women's team has brought in more revenue than the men. In the fiscal year for 2016, the lawsuit says, US Soccer projected a loss of around $400,000 but ended the year with $17.7m in profit due to the women winning the 2015 World Cup and surging in popularity. The latest financial picture released by the federation continues to show more revenue generated by the women. The men didn't even qualify for the 2018 World Cup, losing out on what would have been big revenues."

Darren Hind
97 Posted 26/06/2019 at 19:40:56
Interesting, Albert. but I cant quite grasp this 'equal pay' lark.

When women campaigned for a greater share of the spoils in tennis. I got it. Tennis players earn a living from sponsorship and prize money, am I right?

But footballers are paid a salary. The chances of finding two players at the same club earning the same money are slim. The higher up the pay scale you go, the less chances of parity.

How do women get the same pay as men when men don't get the same pay as each other? At what level are they pitching this?

Albert Perkins
98 Posted 26/06/2019 at 19:57:57
Thanks for your comment, Darren. You have a good point about club football where you get paid what you can bargain for. Women footballers also have their sponsorship deals.

Near to me in the US the women's Portland Thorns team average 17,000 bums on seats per game so they do quite well.

It is in the international arena where US women are complaining that they win World Cups and make more money for the national soccer coffers but get paid far less than the men. Interesting.

John Pierce
99 Posted 26/06/2019 at 20:18:48
Darren, I'm not 100% sure but I think the gripe is the contract and bonuses purely for international appearances.

Unlike at club level, where the market and your skills dictate your pay, regardless of gender. Internationals are picked; I guess they should be paid the same as the men for representing their country. There is no difference – and there shouldn't be, to be fair.

Albert Perkins
100 Posted 26/06/2019 at 20:31:28
John, 99. I agree, especially when the women win the World Cup and the men don't even qualify for theirs.
James Hughes
101 Posted 26/06/2019 at 20:41:40
Darren, at club level, your point about discrepancy over pay is more than valid. At international level, it is one payment for all, regardless of who you are.

Things may have changed but, if you made the 22 man squad for a game, you all got the same fee, whether you played or sat in the stands.

Darren Hind
102 Posted 26/06/2019 at 21:01:40
I see. It's all about fees paid for representing the USA.

It's easy to forget how important this income is when you live in a country where the players earn such obscene amounts of money, they can "magnanimously" forfeit their fee when playing for their country.

John McFarlane Snr
103 Posted 26/06/2019 at 21:09:53
Hi Albert [95], I don't think you are alone in not coming to terms with the offside law as it stands. The law in my younger days was that an attacking player required two players of the defending side, to be between him and the goal at the time the ball was played. A team-mate of his, who although not interfering with play could be deemed to be offside, this was quite often unfair but it was easily understood.

As the law stands now, if you and I stood side by side completely level, and you, the defender, took size 8 boots and I, the attacker, took size 9s, I would be considered to be offside. I know which interpretation I prefer, and it has nothing to do with the size of my feet.

Andy Crooks
104 Posted 26/06/2019 at 22:27:33
John, seeing as you are posting on this thread I would like to ask:

Tony has offered, and I can't thank him enough, his ticket for the opening home game. If I can get over, would you be up to meeting in the Excelsior again?

Jamie Crowley
105 Posted 26/06/2019 at 22:39:22
John McFarlane, Snr @86 -

I am realistic enough to accept that we will never regain the game that I and many others grew up watching, and at the risk of offending the American fans who visit this site, I believe that, in the not too distant future, Association Football will closely resemble American Football.

I don't think I, or any American, would take offense to that. It rings of some degree of truth.

This American hopes that Europeans stick to their guns and make sure Football never resembles American Football.

I think VAR is a damn good thing, and it's here to stay. But it needs to be implemented in a manner that minimally disrupts the game. Minimally!

The flow of football is it's beauty. It can't be disrupted in an aggressive manner.

The converse with American Football kind of applies? If you tried to "speed up" American Football, it would be awful! Yes, it's stop and start. But it's that stop and start, and the drama and build up to each play, especially the truly important ones, that make it so fantastic.

American Football is awesome. I love it. And it's the WAY it's played that makes it so wonderful.

The same applies to your football.

Both games can be tweaked by VAR to ensure teams don't get "robbed" with awful or missed calls. And that's the end game and the extent of it for me.

But football should never, ever, morph into American Football. It would ruin the game.

Rob Halligan
106 Posted 26/06/2019 at 22:59:50
This seems the ideal thread on which to post this, seeing as there is so much live football going on at the moment, with the Women's World Cup, the Copa America, and of course, the African Cup of Nations.

Just watched the Egypt v DR Congo match. Yannick Bolasie started on the bench, but came on for the last half hour and absolutely stunk. The only decent thing he did was hit a free-kick from about 22 yards which whistled past the post. His crossing was awful and he didn't go past a defender once.

Egypt won the game 2-0, by the way.

John McFarlane Snr
107 Posted 26/06/2019 at 00:37:47
Hi Andy [104], I would certainly be up for meeting you again following our first home game but, like the last occasion, it would need to be after the game, as my grandson goes to the game with me.

Hi Jamie [105], I'm glad that you didn't take offence at my remarks regarding American Football. I'm afraid I don't share your enthusiasm of VAR. I'm of the opinion that it is being operated the wrong way around: the match officials should request assistance when they are unsure of a decision. At the moment, it appears that the video assistants are controlling the games.

I am not against change, I have stated on various threads, that I applaud the goal-line technology and the use of the spray at free kicks, but I've seen VAR incidents that have been incorrect. I would sooner have an incorrect decision by the matchday officials, than by someone in a trailer 200 miles away. Supporters of VAR claimed that it would take as little as a minute to determine decisions, yet we have witnessed stoppages as long as two or three minutes.

I'll close now before I get on to the new interpretation of handball in the penalty area, another instance of unnecessary change, it may be football, but not as we know it!

John Pierce
108 Posted 27/06/2019 at 01:46:05
Not sure where this should be: Rooney spanking one from 70 yards vs Orlando. Rather decent.
Stan Schofield
109 Posted 27/06/2019 at 15:06:12
John, seems typical Rooney, genius never goes away. I think he scored three for us from the half-way line.
Jamie Crowley
110 Posted 27/06/2019 at 15:11:29
Sir John -


Good luck to the England Ladies today!

Jamie Crowley
111 Posted 27/06/2019 at 15:15:58
By the way, I think France will beat my women tomorrow.

I don't want it to happen, mind you, but I think there's a major upset brewing.

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