Reader Comments (111)
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1 Posted 23/06/2019 at 19:10:54
Also, the penalty incident for England should have been a penalty in my opinion, and finally the blatant over-the-top challenge and push on the England defender was a straight red but, after a VAR review, only a yellow card for the Cameroon player.
2 Posted 23/06/2019 at 19:56:03
3 Posted 23/06/2019 at 20:11:35
4 Posted 23/06/2019 at 20:14:05
5 Posted 23/06/2019 at 20:22:19
DRS in cricket gives the umpire the chance to stick by their original decision if they are that close and potentially ambiguous.
6 Posted 23/06/2019 at 20:23:47
7 Posted 23/06/2019 at 20:25:55
But there were at least a lot of talking points in this game. England scored well from an offence that now seems rarely called in the men's senior game: indirect free-kick for a pass back to the keeper. Maybe that's such a basic mistake that's been almost eradicated from the men's game? Or a sign of the poor quality of senior refereeing, where it's so often waved away?
And another VAR moment now in the France vs Brazil game. A fine goal, I thought, and rightly given to France, despite the contentious challenge for the ball with the goalkeeper.
8 Posted 23/06/2019 at 20:27:48
And now disallowed! I think I now officially hate VAR.
9 Posted 23/06/2019 at 20:31:31
10 Posted 23/06/2019 at 20:31:33
11 Posted 23/06/2019 at 20:35:38
12 Posted 23/06/2019 at 21:04:10
13 Posted 23/06/2019 at 21:24:00
Where it's more than usually lacking is in the final ball which seems to be played weakly with the players head down. The USA are streets ahead of most, if not all, the other nations which goes to show what proper investment (and a huge population) can do in a relatively short space of time.
14 Posted 23/06/2019 at 21:25:26
15 Posted 23/06/2019 at 21:29:38
Just comparing it to mens football in general. The quality is much lower.
16 Posted 23/06/2019 at 21:31:32
17 Posted 23/06/2019 at 21:35:22
In Brazil, women's football begins only from 15 years of age. i.e. When Rooney was breaking into the first team, Martha was for the first time playing for a football club. Then add the fact that most women don't have boots designed for the female body, that they receive less money, and miss out on all level of pamperings the men get, ridiculing the "quality" is just pathetic.
Heck, when we had Allardyce as manager nobody said "bloody men's football, sums it up really".
18 Posted 23/06/2019 at 21:43:22
The city's well represented with Parris, Duggan and Greenwood all starters. Parris, for me, is the best of the three despite Duggan being a Barca star.
It was Parris in England's last game that was one of the best bits of skill I've seen so far when she went down the right wing and switched the ball from left foot to right foot and back to pass the defender as good as any premier league player I've seen do it.
The thing is, which is to be expected, is that that level is the exception rather than the norm. Hasn't stopped me enjoying it though!
19 Posted 23/06/2019 at 21:44:29
I am absolutely certain in my mind that there is a huge gulf in quality.
Ive actually watched a few games and enjoyed them, but for different reasons.
We should be able to criticise mistakes in the womens game in the same way we do the mens.
20 Posted 23/06/2019 at 21:46:24
The implementation of VAR has been weak, the referees are showing zero confidence in their decision-making and it feels like they are relying on the technology to bail them out. I think the training is lacking.
As for the quality, it might be worth remembering how poor men's World Cups have been, especially the early stages, 1990 & 1994, for example... stinkers.
France's disallowed goal, on balance correctly ruled out, the French player's follow through was significant just like a tackle on the floor with the same characteristics, unlike Gray's were he barely, if at all, touched Sherwood.
21 Posted 23/06/2019 at 21:54:11
At the last World Cup, I wrote an article for the YWCA, yes, not cool, I know. I asked anyone interested to look at what happened at corners. The women defended with skill and within the rules. In the men's game, they cheat.
The men's game is corrupted with cheats, fakes and men who are without shame. The women's game will go the same way but not quite yet.
Will referees ever look at the cheating that goes on at corners? Will one of them ever grow a pair of balls and send four of the cheating cunts off???
22 Posted 23/06/2019 at 22:16:17
23 Posted 23/06/2019 at 22:19:38
24 Posted 23/06/2019 at 22:23:32
25 Posted 23/06/2019 at 22:52:34
Allardyce had a defence of Kenny, Keane, Williams and Martina. And he still was able to finish 8th and had us defending well from when he took over. Some might say he's not that bad really. Some might say he's a genius.
Anyway, I reckon Everton Under-16s would beat the National Women's side. I'm all for equality in every sense of the word, as much as my own prejudice lets me. We all have it. The world is rightly pushing for the women's game and a balance in coverage and respect. That's not to say it ain't painful to watch. But it is.
I'm looking forward to parallel parking becoming an Olympic event. Would the men and women still be competing separately? In fact, joking aside, wouldn't that be something to aspire to? Wouldn't that be real equality? Anyway... sorry I've gone all serious. Didn't mean to.
26 Posted 23/06/2019 at 22:56:56
27 Posted 23/06/2019 at 23:38:38
Now waiting for Simon's 7th post on how poor it is.
28 Posted 23/06/2019 at 23:51:05
I'm glad you posted this. I was going to, but decided not to.
The point of my desire to start a thread was to commend Everton ex-Captain, Phil Neville, on his interview after the game.
Phil was never my cup of tea, and I think he's more Manc than Blue in the end to be sure, but he was brilliant after the game calling out Cameroon and their pathetic, immature, childish displays.
Well done Phil.
And I personally have enjoyed the Women's World Cup. They aren't near as fast or strong as the men, nor do I believe it's even close to the level of the men, but it's enjoyable to watch.
My USA acted terribly, in my opinion, to start the tournament by basically running up the score against Thailand and "over-celebrating" goals that were definably piling on. I actually think it helped bring more attention to the tournament. Nothing like Ugly American headlines to engage the world and have someone to root against!
I'm the furthest thing from a "PC" guy you'll ever find. But I think the women's game is growing, and I'm happy it is.
Brian @ 13 -
The USA are streets ahead of most, if not all, the other nations which goes to show what proper investment (and a huge population) can do in a relatively short space of time.
If that's the case, why is our Men's Team so incredibly shite?!!! Drives me batshit crazy. Our Men's Team simply must improve and qualify for 2022. If they don't I'd support riots in the streets. Embarrassing. If we don't make the final of the Gold Cup, I'll be livid. 300 million people, and we can't beat countries that have 4 million or so. It infuriates me. I want our Men's Team to be successful so badly.
I digress. Well done Phil Neville!
29 Posted 24/06/2019 at 00:18:31
I'm sure the time will come when the USA can boast a real team. Football is number 1 team sport in nearly every developed country in the world. Its 5th for you isn't it?
Surely the MLS gives your college system graduates a carrot to aim for? You need a young generation to come through and some day you could be as good as Wales or Scotland.
Seriously though they have to develop a young team and try to bring them through together. As you said theres enough of you that you'd imagine it can happen.
As for England. Southgate has now lost whatever momentum we thought he'd got going. And the women? Who knows. I don't. I will follow it out of curiosity and hope we do well. On the international scene I usually follow whichever UK side had most Everton players.
30 Posted 24/06/2019 at 03:28:59
You unknowingly hit a very sensitive spot with me.
USA College soccer.
Most top collegiate programs are fielded with foreign players. Germans, Scots, Nigerians, English, Irish, etc. In my view these players are no better than our American kids.
The soccer programs collegiately here are overseen by ADs - Athletic Directors. Their cash cow is American Football, and they know little, if nothing, about soccer. So when they hear a soccer coach brought in a recruiting class of foreigners, they rejoice and say well done.
All the while placing a Trump-sized wall up for the American kids to play collegiately.
Very few American kids play D1 (highest level) soccer.
My second son and third sons both received D3 offers to play collegiately. Those (D3) are smaller schools with smaller programs that can not offer scholarships. Now the second son was offered, through smoke and mirror financing, $42,000 PER YEAR to play at Case Western Reserve University, again a D3 program.
The problem? Case Western is $60,000 per year.
He turned down the offer and went to Florida State in Tallahassee, Florida, where he literally goes FOR FREE.
College soccer is a brick wall for most American kids to further their playing "career".
The best kids do rise through the ranks. But nepotism abounds, there's pay-to-play that means we here in my area, pay $1600 per season for a kid to kick a ball around a field of grass at the younger ages. Our local Club demands the families buy full Nike kits for uniforms that totals another $300, and that's before the travel. The program gets a very healthy "kick back" financially for all the families buying the Nike uniforms and practice gear. SEVEN YEAR OLDS have to buy Nike stuff! It's mandatory, and it's insane. All because the Club gets a shit-ton of money back with which to pay the brass with. It's a racquet!
The best teams "travel" and there's hotels, meals, gas, etc.
One year my wife kept a spreadsheet and our family, who at the time had 4 kids playing, paid over $10,000 that year for my kids to play soccer.
I could go on and on for absolutely HOURS about USA soccer and how crooked it is.
That young crop of American players you speak of? Our National head coach left Josh Sargeant off the team - a 20 year old with tons of promise. He also left our own Antonee Robinson off the roster for the Gold Cup. Mike Gaynes might have more insight (he definably will, more than I), but I've seen both those kids play and if America is interested in bringing along a future generation, those two CERTAINLY make the team ahead of Tim Ream and Josse (sp?) Zardes!!!
Our system is completely fucked up. The people in power care more about the bank balance and their income than they do winning.
Someone give me carte blanche to write a 5000 word essay on the topic, and I'll tell you the whole story.
In short, we suck. And I hate that white-trash word, but there's no other descriptor more apt. We're an absolute fucking mess of a National program.
And I still want them to win so bad I'd give an arm to see them reach a World Cup final.
But our women do kill it. And I think a lot of that is they don't lose collegiate spots to foreigners because the rest of the world lags behind us in opportunity for women - and entirely good and wholesome thing from an American perspective, and one to be proud of.
PHEW! I'm tired. Rant over.
31 Posted 24/06/2019 at 03:49:15
Amen. One reason I truly enjoy watching the women play. Hard, honest, good football, despite being slower and lacking the quality of the men.
It's a joy to watch, if you can just stop asking yourself for two seconds, "do those players have a penis, or a vagina?"
Who really fucking cares!
Is the game played with passion? Do they play at maximum effort while representing their countries? Do they play an honest game, with integrity?
You bet they do. Go on ladies, show the men how it should be done.
32 Posted 24/06/2019 at 04:04:06
It's been a while! Hope all is well. It's not often I'm taken with a post. However, I'm smitten. You know my role in College sports is an official but I do some coaching and age group stuff. Word for word, your post is exactly what is wrong with sport and scholarships in the US, of course, it's widespread and other sports suffer in a similar vein.
The kickbacks, the outlay and the barriers it sets up socio-economically outrage me at times. It's worth a thesis of any budding major at school for sure. It's cray cray!
33 Posted 24/06/2019 at 04:15:10
The kick backs, the out lay and the barriers it sets up socio-economically outrage me at times.
Just - YES!
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
The US Soccer system is entirely un-American.
Then again, so is our President with his Wall, so I guess it should come as no surprise.
And people think Brexit is fucked up. Shit. You got nothing on America at the moment.
34 Posted 24/06/2019 at 05:18:49
You are absolutely right in everything you say, and I can't be one bit more insightful than you on this, but you didn't quite finish off the move. One key additional point is that the economic barrier isn't just economic, it's anti-Latino. Millions of Hispanic kids who play for the love of the sport never get a chance to crack the US system. And it pisses them off. The best of 'em play through the youth system and then sign for Mexico internationally. I'm playing with two right now who might very well have been national-caliber at 16. They now play Sunday league and work in a cheese factory. Never came close to getting a shot. MLS tryout camps are now offering at least a slight chance.
A few comments regarding some of your other points:
The US women's dominance, really since the 1990's, is a result of Title IX. They DID come through college. In women's soccer particularly, international success is in direct proportion to the financial support from the government or institutions. China dropped off the top of the world when the money was shifted to other sports.
I half agree with you on USA/Thailand. Running up the score is entirely appropriate when A) goal differential matters and B) you use all your subs. What infuriated me was the choreographed goal celebrations at 11-0 and 12-0 -- and Abby Wambach crying "sexism" when the issue was raised.
I half agree with you on Sargent and Robinson being dropped. Robinson just wasn't dialed in to the new system yet. I doubt it will happen again. (And we're a little off on the timing of the Sargent complaint, since Zardes was MOTM last night.) But the new USA manager does have the side playing a more attractive, professional brand of soccer... which isn't saying much. We do still suck.
It's also worth noting that the two best players turning out right now for the US, Pulisic and McKennie, have the same thing in common -- they told the US collegiate system to go fuck itself and went to Europe for academy training.
Again, great posts.
35 Posted 24/06/2019 at 06:07:30
You have to remember that the ladies game at this level is still in its infancy. I envisage women's football to replicate women's tennis. a different, but very watchable game to the men's.
Actually, it doesn't matter what we think. The girls are on the march. Anyone who is married, loved up, grew up with an older sister, or has a daughter will know the wisest thing to do is step aside and let them through. Otherwise, they'll simply run over you.
36 Posted 24/06/2019 at 06:38:55
Yet the biggest issue still when watching the women's World Cup is the disparity between the best and worst nations – the gulf in class is ridiculous, as the USA-Thailand scoreline illustrated – and that's why it'll get better from here on in.
But the top teams play some really good stuff and England, for example, are a decent passing outfit.
Tough to watch? I've found the matches I've tuned into to have been highly entertaining, ruined only by VAR which really has me fearing its introduction to the Premier League this coming season. Some of the hairline decisions have been terrible – a disconcerting inability (or unwillingness at this stage) to discern between the letter of the law and spirit of the law.
37 Posted 24/06/2019 at 10:20:36
There are other posts which criticise the above posts, but unfortunately extrapolate the criticism to imply the comments on poor quality are also sexist comments and/or comments arising from ego issues.
To those posters who do this extrapolation, you should be mindful of the fact that extrapolation is a very dodgy thing to do, and that comments about the quality of the tournament can be just that, comments about quality.
38 Posted 24/06/2019 at 11:01:12
The only way the game will improve is if more girls are encouraged to take part at a young age and to take it seriously. Many of us with daughters will have seen how few of them play team sports once they hit the teenage years compared to boys. Football can turn that around.
If I have any criticism of the current media coverage, it's the pretence that the women's game is already equivalent in stature to the men's game – it clearly isn't, as witnessed by the empty stadia and low viewing figures. Having said that, the growth will only come with increased accessibility, so fair play to the BBC for giving so much time to coverage.
I also agree with Lyndon about VAR – it's been a disaster at the World Cup in my view. As it was in the men's Nations Cup earlier this month. The "toe's length" offside decisions don't work for me, and I don't see a way of getting round it. In an ideal world, decisions would only be overturned if it should have been clearly spotted in real time by the naked eye – glaring mistakes in other words. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be viable. We're doomed this season to endless delays and countless disallowed goals.
39 Posted 24/06/2019 at 11:19:01
40 Posted 24/06/2019 at 12:26:40
Apart from that some of the games have been really good to watch. France vs Brazil last night was a highly entertaining and competitive game played at a decent pace. I find the women's game can actually be quite refreshing to watch versus the men's game – less hard tackling and more about movement which makes a change.
English (men's) football is all 'up & at em' which is quite tiring viewing when you're old like I am, so seeing people actually have a little bit of time & space makes it quite pleasant to watch.
One of the problems the games are suffering from is piss-poor officiating though. The referees have not done themselves proud and way too many VAR checks (I fucking hate VAR).
Also, Valerie Gauvin & Kathellen Sousa both caught my attention more than most last night. Both good players. Very easy on the eye.
41 Posted 24/06/2019 at 12:49:53
It seems logical that the goals should be reduced in height and width, and the pitches shortened by a few yards. Then the game will not have keepers beaten routinely by speculative shots/headers making the keepers look poor and the outfield players looking for easy goals.
A reduction in the dimensions of the pitch would allow the ladies to cover the ground at a faster pace making their product look less pedestrian. Other than these changes, I also concur with others above that the attitude in general of the athletes is refreshing with a lot less simulation and histrionics on view.
42 Posted 24/06/2019 at 13:12:55
I think VAR is still a great option and will be accepted as soon as all the players, no matter what competition, are educated in accepting it's decisions without whining as they are still doing.
Obviously, Cameroon's women are not in sync with the new technology.
43 Posted 24/06/2019 at 13:15:50
Jamie C, loved your post about the jobs for the boys, and the closed shop for the American kids, which tells me there must be an Englishman at the very top, behind the scenes!
I loved your passion, more than the actual post Jamie, because I find it sad when people aren't given the proper opportunities to progress, and this sounds like this is what's happening to loads of young American kids.
Look at England; I feel exactly the same way, because the talent is definitely there, and most of the time it seems to me that the coaching is holding us back.
44 Posted 24/06/2019 at 14:10:59
All you can do in any sport is beat what is put in front of you. The standard of play is unrecognisable compared to just a few years ago. Give them credit, the female version of the game is always likely to be different when compared with the male version.
45 Posted 24/06/2019 at 14:54:20
I think it would be worth taking another look at the first part of your post. I would proffer that if you suggested those changes to the women's game you'd get a mostly negative response, I think the thin ice would well and truly have melted!
The key to the improvements is making ALL players professional and full time, given the same opportunity, funding and coverage to produce better players as the men.
There are few, if any examples, I can think of were the field dimensions are changed for women. That is shaky ground. Would you change pitch dimensions for men of lower caliber?
Making a pitch smaller doesn't make someone faster right? You might consider duration as a possible element to change, but even that I would think would feel insulting.
It's about opportunity, for example, look at tennis, and even golf. I'd argue I prefer to watch women's tennis as a product because there is less power and more skill. Make the product professional across the globe and the standard will rise very quickly.
46 Posted 24/06/2019 at 15:36:43
Besides, it wouldn't be practical or financially feasible to create a smaller goal for the women. Schools would have to buy two sets, one for each gender.
47 Posted 24/06/2019 at 15:57:56
Regarding the women's game, I also find that quite mediocre, consistently so because there's generally little quality. No doubt the game will improve as youngsters at earlier ages get involved and coached, but currently it's quite tedious.
If and when the women's game does improve a lot, there's a good chance that with more money injected into it that it too will be beset by cheating. Where there's big money, there's cheating, male or female. Then it will likely become unappealing for the same reason that the men's top game is unappealing.
Contrasting the last men's World Cup with the men's under-20s World Cup which England won (with four Everton players), the latter was relatively entertaining, plenty of quality on show. But it hardly got a mention in the media.
Regardless of whether we're talking about men's or women's football, it's quite legitimate to comment about mediocrity just as it is about quality. The trouble is with this thread, as has happened with some other threads on ToffeeWeb where women are mentioned, the subject seems to quickly veer off the topic and onto other subjects of a more gender political nature. Here, there seems to be an overly defensive response to any criticisms of women, that could be interpreted as patronising to women.
48 Posted 24/06/2019 at 17:57:21
I'm heartened somewhat by the Premier League's decision not to review goalkeepers' positioning on the line and deferring to the on-field officials for penalty kicks. It shows that there can be a measure of common-sense deviation by individual leagues from the harder line approach we've witnessed during the Women's World Cup.
The problem with the offside rule is that it has to be rigorously applied but, as someone on Twitter said the other day, it's original intent was to prevent goal-hanging. It wasn't ever designed to be pored over on a video screen and decided by a matter of inches.
For me, they should change the rule so that there has to be daylight between the torso of the attacker and the last defender. Eliminate this notion of a body part capable of scoring a goal was an inch ahead of the defender's heel, etc. Make it so that if there is visible separation between the players' bodies, it's offside. That would make it clearer, in my opinion, and also give a bit more edge to the attacker than the current rule.
49 Posted 24/06/2019 at 18:03:15
We already have the tape measures out. How long before somebody insists that the tape measures are calibrated?
50 Posted 24/06/2019 at 18:11:01
I think most of the comments are pretty fair. While recognizing the womens game isnt to the skill level of the men, most are enjoying the womens World Cup and see improvement in the ladies game the past 10 to 15 years.
A bit of a tangent, but society has definitely been force-feeding female power on us the last 5 or so years. Just ask anyone who likes comics for example - the DC Universe has gone straight PC girl-power the last 5-7 years. And thats just one example in prevalent art, movies, and culture.
If you can separate that social dynamic from the soccer, the soccer is darned good and enjoyable.
Watching this USA - Spain game for example is a real treat for me. Great game thusfar, whether or not its men or women.
Im not a PC guy. Frankly, I hate PC in all its iterations. But this Womens World Cup is fun for me. And I dont care if its women, men, or Martians playing.
Theres a weird line between getting defensive, and supporting the womens soccer development. I dont know where that line is, or how you define it.
I just like watching these ladies play and wish their game all the success it can garner.
Ladies soccer seems to me to be an organic, natural development for women. And I love it. Its not some effort by movie execs, the corporate world, or the media to force-feed an agenda down our throats.
Dangerous analysis, but one I think worthy of stating an opinion on. Whether you agree or not. And if you dont, lemme know.
Contrarian opinions on TW are what make me think, and view topics through a different lens.
The real beauty of TW Id argue.
51 Posted 24/06/2019 at 18:29:24
I love my sister dearly, but she started force-feeding me 60 years ago and she is still doing it today.
52 Posted 24/06/2019 at 18:59:13
For me, I have to see enough mediocrity with Everton, and I don't wish to see other mediocrity on top of that. So women's football, for me, holds little interest, because I demand quality outside of Everton.
If the quality improves, fine, I might start watching more of it. In the meantime, I don't much care for the overhyping typical of BBC propaganda, any more than I care for the overhyping of, say, our neighbour's across the park. Similarly, I don't much care for the habitual overly-defensive responses I see on ToffeeWeb when a woman is criticised. It's tedious, particularly in its repetition, and spoils the attraction of ToffeeWeb.
53 Posted 24/06/2019 at 19:07:57
The BBC did pique my interest with the hyperbole as stated above, so I clicked on one of their links to watch some wonder goals. One was a 30 yarder. Instead of being a rocket into the corner which gave the keeper no chance, it was one that if it beat Pickford, he'd be lambasted. In fact, I think it's no exaggeration to say a Sunday league keeper would get a few eye-brows for letting it in.
All of the "great goals" I have seen have been examples of diabolical goalkeeping. Some of the dribbling and close control is sublime for sure, but the shooting lacks the power and accuracy you expect from the elite level of the men's game.
But ultimately it's not the elite level of the men's game and it's got a long way to go. Fair play to those who enjoy it, but it's not for me.
54 Posted 24/06/2019 at 19:19:15
55 Posted 24/06/2019 at 20:26:40
56 Posted 24/06/2019 at 20:27:49
57 Posted 24/06/2019 at 20:56:16
For me, standards in women's football are evidently vastly improved. I've seen some excellent technique, movement and tactics, plus some impressive individuals. I think it's an exercise in futility to make a direct comparison between men's and women's football, in the same way you would not expect the same skill sets or strength when switching between men's and women's tennis at the highest level.
That said, it's only in very recent years that women's tennis, after a hard and fierce lobby, won equal prize money rewards with Wimbledon the last of the Grand Slam venues to grant it.
The campaign some are pushing for – equal pay for women and men footballers – does not have a direct parallel with men's and women's tennis, however. The WTF has ensured good sponsorship deals, run a well organized and funded tennis circuit all year round, with joint events with both male and female players on display, including mixed doubles, all of which appeals to television audiences.
The very best men on the tennis circuit would always beat the very best women, but the very best women would – and do, on occasion, in exhibition matches – beat decent lower ranked men.
Women's football, by contrast, is not as commercially appealing as women's tennis. Did I read tickets for the current World Cup are available for as little as €9? As such its professional players cannot expect to get anywhere near the parity they are seeking to their male counterparts.
Incrementally, as standards and audience appeal improves, professional women footballers I imagine will reap higher financial rewards. But 'the product' will always lag behind the men's game, I fancy, and as such equality in pay is but a pipe dream.
As for the 'PC' stuff, the BBC has very few major live sporting events it can promote these days, so I'm not surprised they are going 'large' on everything about the Women's World Cup. Not an issue for me.
What is very real (and evidently anathema to some) is that women's football has been prejudiced against and is only now correcting that imbalance. Here, in football-mad Brazil, for example, It was ILLEGAL for women to play football from 1941 to 1979. Think about that!!
How many generations of would-be female footballers might have been inspired to play the game after Brazil won the WC in 1958, 1962 and again with the glorious team of 1970, but would literally have committed a 'crime' if they attempted to do so? It is still an issue in some cultures and nations that persists with the sexist notion that football is not a sport for women.
It's not being overly 'PC' or flippant about misogyny to acknowledge those historical and contemporary facts.
58 Posted 24/06/2019 at 20:57:05
Jay, historical facts about prejudices are irrelevant (to me) in the context of my seeking entertainment through quality. Similarly, current political prejudices, including those from strands of neo-feminism, are also irrelevant (to me).
59 Posted 24/06/2019 at 21:11:57
60 Posted 24/06/2019 at 21:19:56
61 Posted 24/06/2019 at 21:32:18
62 Posted 24/06/2019 at 21:34:25
63 Posted 24/06/2019 at 21:40:34
I think I could sell both!! 😜
64 Posted 24/06/2019 at 21:44:32
65 Posted 24/06/2019 at 21:48:08
I have thoroughly enjoyed this tournament but there are posts on this thread that are just jaw-dropping. If you don't like women playing football don't watch it and don't come on ToffeeWeb to moan about it.... BBC Propaganda? FFS!
66 Posted 24/06/2019 at 21:55:45
67 Posted 24/06/2019 at 22:18:31
You know very little about me, so making personal assertions like that is simply stupid. Also, I'm not moaning at all, simply commenting on what looks to me like overhyping by the BBC.
Your post looks like yet another defensive response to legitimate comments about quality.
68 Posted 24/06/2019 at 22:26:37
69 Posted 24/06/2019 at 22:27:17
70 Posted 24/06/2019 at 22:49:04
71 Posted 24/06/2019 at 22:59:33
That's what this thread is for, to give your own opinion about the Women's World Cup. If that's okay with yerself?
72 Posted 24/06/2019 at 23:44:49
As far as England are concerned, Neville seems to favour Duggan and Parris – both of whom have been largely disappointing thus far; Rachel Daly was superb against Japan, as was Georgia Stanway, and I'd be keen to see them given more opportunities.
Ellen White's movement and finishing has been excellent, and in Lucy Bronze we have one of the stand-out players in the women's game. Her strength, skill and athleticism puts some of her first-teamers to shame.
73 Posted 25/06/2019 at 06:02:18
What ???... There's a campaign ???
By who? Where? When?
74 Posted 25/06/2019 at 06:29:16
75 Posted 25/06/2019 at 06:43:48
I think VAR should be binned asap and not thought of again unless a quicker system of verification can be used. Playing on after an event then stopping 2-3 minutes to look at VAR is daft.
Not just VAR needs reconsidering – look at this body shape thing in the penalty area like the Danny Rose incident last season. How the fuck can you throw yourself down with your hands behind your back? Stupid.
The game is being ruined by a bunch of corrupt officials. We all know game officials cock-up during the game; now they're handing over the cock-ups to some divi watching VAR.
It would be great to go back to the old rules and plain blue shirts with no sponsors all over them.
76 Posted 25/06/2019 at 06:58:48
I'll refrain from my usual rant of how much corporate cash is now in sport globally, fuelling escalation in salaries, agents fees and ultimately pay-TV subscription and actual ticket prices.
Would be nice if these brands accepted they are making super-profits and either paid employees better, or reduced prices to the consumer, rather than funding Ronaldo's 8th Lambo this year...
Dammit, there I go again...
77 Posted 25/06/2019 at 07:23:26
My preference is still to scrap VAR and have four linesmen, persons or assistants whichever causes least upset and controversy.
78 Posted 25/06/2019 at 07:25:42
79 Posted 25/06/2019 at 07:42:27
I would prefer it to be used to check the validity of goals, penalty claims, and acts of serious foul play missed by the ref. Everything else should be left to the officials on the pitch.
Too many breaks in play ruins the flow of the match, and it's making the game far more complicated than it should be.
80 Posted 25/06/2019 at 08:33:37
Mike G calls the penalty a soft one; without seeing the incident, I can say I've seen loads of soft penalties given over the years, with television and their very comfortable pundits saying “He's touched him, so he's got every right to go down.” Then it's defending the cheats, which is definitely not the way forward, especially if your team is on the receiving end!
81 Posted 25/06/2019 at 08:43:57
We score against the Shite at Anfield, and we're bound to come under VAR scrutiny. The Shite score against us at Goodison and on you go son.
Paranoid? Me? Never!
82 Posted 25/06/2019 at 14:40:59
I wrote about Peter Walton, who has been the ref in the studio, (for crying out loud?) and he has already contradicted himself with regards handball, so the same bias will stay above the surface, and the media will gain even more control if that's possible?
I've even heard Martin Atkinson has asked to retire so he can now go and sit on “the behind the scenes panel” – which just goes to show how paranoid I really am!
83 Posted 25/06/2019 at 15:10:43
"The campaign some are pushing for - equal pay for women and men footballers"
What ???... There's a campaign ???
By who? Where? When?"
Do try and keep up, Darren. Just because you may not be aware of events doesn't mean they are not happening. (But then again, in your world...).
To add to Michael's response that the USA women's team is suing its own federation for equal pay with the men, I'm guessing you missed the big story ahead of the current Women's World Ccup that the current FIFA Women's Footballer of the Year, Ada Hegerberg of Norway, is not playing in protest as she continues to campaign for greater equality and recognition for women's football:
84 Posted 25/06/2019 at 15:33:20
Offside was created to stop goal hangers, to give the game balance. The iteration we have now is technically sound but spiritually moribund. The marginal decision is frustrating because the player is not gaining a significant material advantage, use daylight as many have suggested and by definition you have a margin for error which reflects that significance. It would reduce the number of poor decisions to a trickle & allow the flag to go up immediately, reducing the chance of serious injury (which will happen soon enough) if we continue with keeping the flag down on marginal offsides.
I would in this instance reduce the scope of VAR to offside only, start small and get the mechanics right. Use those learned principles from a binary decision and slowly implement from there. It will give all parties time to adjust, and I think show a level of fairness to both defending and attacking sides. Lastly, ensure leagues do not have the right to have their own iteration.
What I fear most is those subjective calls are being manipulated into binary scenarios to make them eligible for VAR, which will give us a level of technical excellence but leave us cold at the monochrome game we have left.
85 Posted 25/06/2019 at 17:01:37
I think you're right, at least the seemingly odd disparity in sponsorship dollars has been part of the trigger.
What our UK audience (and others) may not know is that grassroots level development 'soccer' in the US has (for many years) been if anything stronger for young women than for young men. It's been a great option for athletic young women while young men have American Football and Baseball as the 'real' US sports for aspiration and advancement.
The disparity is still there at senior level: while the professional women's soccer game has very limited exposure, the MLS benefits from live TV coverage and great many imported rather than homegrown players. Hence Jamey Crowley's tirade at the US collegiate system, which is so engrained in the development of home talent for all other US sports.
I should add, this is just a sense I get living here without being involved at any level — I have done no research or reading on this and may be well off-base.
On a related note, perennial slamming of the BBC is common on here, someone even accusing them of 'propaganda' over the coverage of the Women's World Cup. What I noticed last season, at least on BBC Radio, was a sudden ramp up in interest in the women's game, which hardly got a mention in previous seasons. Now, we actually had live commentary of women's matches, a first for them, I believe.
I know it's important for your street cred to slam the BBC at regular intervals, but you should try living someplace where it's less available, and the local commercial media is in your face at every turn. Believe me, you don't appreciate what you've got until you ain't got it.
86 Posted 25/06/2019 at 17:16:03
I agree with Tony Abrahams , Football has sold its soul to the television 'camera' — What I've witnessed at the Women's World Cup competition fills me with dread for the coming season. VAR will, in my opinion, produce as many controversial decisions as it solves. The only improvements I can see in recent years are the goal-line technology, and the spray to mark the 10 yards distance at free kicks.
I am realistic enough to accept that we will never regain the game that I and many others grew up watching, and at the risk of offending the American fans who visit this site, I believe that, in the not too distant future, Association Football will closely resemble American Football.
87 Posted 25/06/2019 at 19:27:59
It's gone too far, it's poisonous and it will destroy football. For those who argue that VAR could make a decision that would save a club from relegation, I would say the worst teams get relegated because they are shite; they have not been robbed.
88 Posted 25/06/2019 at 19:47:25
89 Posted 25/06/2019 at 19:57:39
Games could go on until 5:30pm, and Anfield will be three-quarters empty as RS fans rush off for their planes and trains.
90 Posted 25/06/2019 at 21:49:08
Ball blasted at the defender no than a meter or so. Game's gone.
91 Posted 25/06/2019 at 21:57:24
92 Posted 25/06/2019 at 22:02:25
Deeply concerned for Mina at this point. He can barely keep his arms and legs in time!!! Walking pen next season poor lad.
93 Posted 26/06/2019 at 17:38:36
To be honest, your penultimate sentence in the final paragraph is inappropriate, not becoming of a 'serious' debate. There is often a problem on ToffeeWeb, of folks making comments of a personal nature. There's really no need for it.
94 Posted 26/06/2019 at 18:15:10
However, a big plus from me was the honesty in which the game is played. No rolling around to an extent where you would think the only option would be to give the last rights to an "injured" player, only for a miracle to occur on a par with Lazarus's return to life! No diving when someone breathes on you. Good on yer, girls, keep it going!
95 Posted 26/06/2019 at 19:15:56
For instance, the women's Australian own goal scored while the Brazil forward was in an offside position and not deemed interfering with play seems wrong. The defender would not have bothered to head the ball and left it to the goalie if the forward had not been there. She was contesting the ball. Help me here.
96 Posted 26/06/2019 at 19:25:54
"In its defense, US Soccer has also cited higher revenues and higher game attendance for the men's national team compared to the women. Historically, that's been a strong argument for the federation but not so much lately: since 2016 the women's team has brought in more revenue than the men. In the fiscal year for 2016, the lawsuit says, US Soccer projected a loss of around $400,000 but ended the year with $17.7m in profit due to the women winning the 2015 World Cup and surging in popularity. The latest financial picture released by the federation continues to show more revenue generated by the women. The men didn't even qualify for the 2018 World Cup, losing out on what would have been big revenues."
97 Posted 26/06/2019 at 19:40:56
When women campaigned for a greater share of the spoils in tennis. I got it. Tennis players earn a living from sponsorship and prize money, am I right?
But footballers are paid a salary. The chances of finding two players at the same club earning the same money are slim. The higher up the pay scale you go, the less chances of parity.
How do women get the same pay as men when men don't get the same pay as each other? At what level are they pitching this?
98 Posted 26/06/2019 at 19:57:57
Near to me in the US the women's Portland Thorns team average 17,000 bums on seats per game so they do quite well.
It is in the international arena where US women are complaining that they win World Cups and make more money for the national soccer coffers but get paid far less than the men. Interesting.
99 Posted 26/06/2019 at 20:18:48
Unlike at club level, where the market and your skills dictate your pay, regardless of gender. Internationals are picked; I guess they should be paid the same as the men for representing their country. There is no difference – and there shouldn't be, to be fair.
100 Posted 26/06/2019 at 20:31:28
101 Posted 26/06/2019 at 20:41:40
Things may have changed but, if you made the 22 man squad for a game, you all got the same fee, whether you played or sat in the stands.
102 Posted 26/06/2019 at 21:01:40
It's easy to forget how important this income is when you live in a country where the players earn such obscene amounts of money, they can "magnanimously" forfeit their fee when playing for their country.
103 Posted 26/06/2019 at 21:09:53
As the law stands now, if you and I stood side by side completely level, and you, the defender, took size 8 boots and I, the attacker, took size 9s, I would be considered to be offside. I know which interpretation I prefer, and it has nothing to do with the size of my feet.
104 Posted 26/06/2019 at 22:27:33
Tony has offered, and I can't thank him enough, his ticket for the opening home game. If I can get over, would you be up to meeting in the Excelsior again?
105 Posted 26/06/2019 at 22:39:22
I am realistic enough to accept that we will never regain the game that I and many others grew up watching, and at the risk of offending the American fans who visit this site, I believe that, in the not too distant future, Association Football will closely resemble American Football.
I don't think I, or any American, would take offense to that. It rings of some degree of truth.
This American hopes that Europeans stick to their guns and make sure Football never resembles American Football.
I think VAR is a damn good thing, and it's here to stay. But it needs to be implemented in a manner that minimally disrupts the game. Minimally!
The flow of football is it's beauty. It can't be disrupted in an aggressive manner.
The converse with American Football kind of applies? If you tried to "speed up" American Football, it would be awful! Yes, it's stop and start. But it's that stop and start, and the drama and build up to each play, especially the truly important ones, that make it so fantastic.
American Football is awesome. I love it. And it's the WAY it's played that makes it so wonderful.
The same applies to your football.
Both games can be tweaked by VAR to ensure teams don't get "robbed" with awful or missed calls. And that's the end game and the extent of it for me.
But football should never, ever, morph into American Football. It would ruin the game.
106 Posted 26/06/2019 at 22:59:50
Just watched the Egypt v DR Congo match. Yannick Bolasie started on the bench, but came on for the last half hour and absolutely stunk. The only decent thing he did was hit a free-kick from about 22 yards which whistled past the post. His crossing was awful and he didn't go past a defender once.
Egypt won the game 2-0, by the way.
107 Posted 26/06/2019 at 00:37:47
Hi Jamie , I'm glad that you didn't take offence at my remarks regarding American Football. I'm afraid I don't share your enthusiasm of VAR. I'm of the opinion that it is being operated the wrong way around: the match officials should request assistance when they are unsure of a decision. At the moment, it appears that the video assistants are controlling the games.
I am not against change, I have stated on various threads, that I applaud the goal-line technology and the use of the spray at free kicks, but I've seen VAR incidents that have been incorrect. I would sooner have an incorrect decision by the matchday officials, than by someone in a trailer 200 miles away. Supporters of VAR claimed that it would take as little as a minute to determine decisions, yet we have witnessed stoppages as long as two or three minutes.
I'll close now before I get on to the new interpretation of handball in the penalty area, another instance of unnecessary change, it may be football, but not as we know it!
108 Posted 27/06/2019 at 01:46:05
109 Posted 27/06/2019 at 15:06:12
110 Posted 27/06/2019 at 15:11:29
Good luck to the England Ladies today!
111 Posted 27/06/2019 at 15:15:58
I don't want it to happen, mind you, but I think there's a major upset brewing.
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