Living in the Past

by   |   27/12/2018  39 Comments  [Jump to last]

I am completely and utterly at a loss as to why so many Everton fans choose to live in the past. Oh, so-and-so, an ex-player comes out and says that Everton is the best club, the best fans, they made me feel welcome or at home, blah blah blah.

Everton does have a fine and illustrious history... that has stalled since 1995.
If this club ever seriously wants to get back in the big time, then there are some things that need to be done which will not go down well with followers on this site in particular.

We need to lose the old boy network. We need to get streetwise, ie fouling opposition players to with an inch of being carded; we need to be able to feign fouls, especially in the penalty area, and not incur the wrath of the referee or VAR if and when that monstrosity is ever introduced full-time into the Premier League.

The "Oh look – we only lost by one" (especially against the Sky darlings) or "We played really quite well" – normally after a drubbing. The club is soft-centred and has been for far too long.

We need to toughen up, do away with the sentimental: "Well he's done us proud for a few years yet won nothing" attitude. I think Everton have three, maybe four years to begin to alter the mindset or it will be too late.

We are miles behind Spurs, Man Utd, Man City, and Liverpool (spit!), even Arsenal who seem to be wavering the last couple of seasons. WE have to show the killer instinct from the top down.

If a player, for whatever reason, is not up to par, then we should be looking to replace him, not saying "Arrh, he's had a tough time or a bad injury".

Yes, of course I fully empathise with the likes of Seamus, horrible injury and he has shown the guts and temperament that we all knew he had. But, if he now isn't good enough, and lots of fans on this and other forums have opined as such, then we should be looking to replace him.

Jagielka, a great servant, whatever that means... surely he should be put on the transfer list. Others as well should be viewed likewise irrespective of their service and/or fading skills and effectiveness.

This club is doomed to languish among the also-rans forevermore unless change is implemented. Change in attitude has to happen.

I am sick of reading posts and comments with "If you know yer history, and what EitC do (fantastic by the way, but this is not the way forward). We cannot afford the ludicrous levels of sentimentality to pervade this club for much longer.
It is a crippling malaise that needs to be stopped.

I only hope that Moshiri and Brands have a cunning plan because, if not, and I do believe that this will be Everton's last throw of the dice at joining the big boys, we will be wallowing in history and sentimentality forever.

You all know the saying, "If you can't beat them, join them". So what's it to be?
I say join them. Yes, it absolutely goes against the grain and everything football wise that I stand for. But, rather that than see this once proud behemoth of English football – you all know yer history — slide unceremoniously under the depths.

back Return to Talking Points index  :  Add your Comments »

Reader Comments (39)

Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer

Derek Taylor
1 Posted 28/12/2018 at 09:40:32
Failing to win honours in any of the last 23 seasons is not caused by our living in the past but the past – the distant past – is all we have to live on!

A look at the records will show that we seem to get a new team every season since Moyes moved on. The managerial revolving door – with each incumbent being viewed as worse than his predecessor - means that last year's flops have to be replaced by the new man and the ever-increasing scouting mob living off the Club.

Personally, I make no apology for constantly harking back to the team of 1969-70, not alone in the belief that never again will I see an Everton team of that standard. In short, our future is behind us – 7th is the new target to strive for, so why be greedy?

Jim Bennings
2 Posted 28/12/2018 at 10:30:54
What we are right now is a traditional club, I'm not sure we can really be classed as an active big club right at this moment. We were still a big club when we won the FA Cup in 1995, still one of the original Big Five.

The last 20 years has seen clubs like Chelsea (who were nowhere to be seen in the early 90's) win countless trophies and have yearly success. We can no longer dismiss Chelsea as a club that's won nothing, like we would have scoffed at them in the late '90s and their boasts at being a big club. We can't ignore the trophies they have won since 1997 just as we wouldn't dismiss our short drops of success in the 1980's.

Manchester City were a yo-yo club with nothing more than national sympathy for sharing a city with all-conquering Manchester United under Ferguson but now City have become a super power dominating the trophy front.

For us at Everton, 24 years without a trophy is a long time let's be honest and also no Champions League exposure in that time does damage to aspirations.

Tottenham have now become a big hitter because they are showing clear signs of forward thinking and progress coupled with European exposure at the highest standard. It's going to be hard for Everton to move on to that next level and break in to that little group.

Back in the 90's as I say, we were still a club that commanded respect and it was only a few years since we won the League title.

Liverpool were on their way down in the early '90s, and Man Utd only had really Blackburn and Newcastle challenging them until the arrival of Arsene Wenger at Arsenal.

Nowadays it's six super-power clubs to dismantle, that's not going to be easy and requires sky-high aspirations.

Tony Abrahams
3 Posted 28/12/2018 at 10:43:05
Two ways to look at this, and both of them sadden me. It's great that we can look at the great teams we have had in the past, but it's so important that we get another team to talk about soon.

I went in the Brick, for the first time in years after the Spurs game, and it made me feel exactly like you felt Jim, and it's why I can understand your sentiments so well.

There was a lad sorting out everyone for Burnley tickets, despite a 6-2 home loss, which tells me everything about Everton and its fans, who have had absolutely nothing to shout about forever.

We live in the past because it's all we've got to cling to, with the only alternative possibly being the unthinkable, because who wants to walk away from the club that they love?

Dave Williams
4 Posted 28/12/2018 at 11:38:47
Absolutely right Tony. We look back on the past because it is nicer than the present. One of my presents for Christmas was Blue Nose by Ronnie Goodlass and I have also kept back the David France book from last year for a rainy day. A good supply of books about or by former players has been enjoyed in my house over the last year with a belter by an Arsenal fan “the
Man in white boots” a particular favourite of mine.
My wife asks me why I persist in reading books about former players and the reason is that the current lot are nowhere near as interesting and do not inspire that sort of interest in me because they have not yet given me the level of excitement that the old players have.
I doubt I will see anyone approach Ball as a player in my lifetime and until I do I will recall his play with huge satisfaction- I saw THE all time great Everton player every fortnight for five years- wonderful.
I understand the sentiments above about getting mean and certainly our great teams of the past could do that. Gabriel and Kay were hard players, Ball was more than a match for the Leeds hard men in midfield, Reid, Gray and Van den Hauwe mixed it with the best and in the nineties the dogs of war were well named until Joe Parkinson got injured. I don’t want my team to cheat though- being tough and hard in a physical sense we definitely need and a midfield tough guy with real presence would improve us no end - but cheat in order to win? Not for me. It is not sentimentality but pride. I like to win games and my mood if we lose is not great even after all these years. However I don’t want to be listening to workmates or the Sky experts bang on about how we shouldn’t have won because we conned the ref or kicked the opposition off the park. Leicester showed that it is possible to break the cartel but they didn’t have the squad to kick on. Yes it needs money and a few young players to really come good but I would prefer to take pride in how we conduct ourselves as a club ( I was embarrassed at the tapping up of young players), see us play the game hard but fair and honest and hope that we will get it right and break into the top four again.
The old players are gradually disappearing and I expect Jags and Baines to go in the summer but this season they will be useful in helping new players to settle.
I don’t expect an avalanche of support for this view but I have been an avid supporter now for 56 years and the club means far more to me than having a winning team at all costs.
I live in hope that Brands and Silva can build a top side which plays good football, can dig in and fight but not resort to cheating to get a result.

Laurie Hartley
5 Posted 28/12/2018 at 11:58:58
Change starts at the top, Jim, and in fairness to Farhad Moshiri, he has shown a willingness to be ruthless. We are on our fifth manager since he bought into the club.

I think we will also see Brands, who comes across to me as a very cool and calculating customer, jettison quite a few players, if not in January, certainly in the summer. That is when the real change can occur – if he and Silva bring in the players with the right mentality.

I think we need to bring in at least one dominator in the midfield – I like Drinkwater. Mina and Gomes, as they grow in confidence, may also bring the on-field steel we need. They are showing signs of it.

Tony #3 – once Everton is in your system, there is no way back – it's for life.

Kunal Desai
6 Posted 28/12/2018 at 12:21:18
No clear business plan or strategy in place for 25 years to look to even marginally improve and move the club on year after year. That's why the club is a failure at winning.
Thomas Lennon
7 Posted 28/12/2018 at 12:27:08
I wrote just after the Leicester game that a few players have six weeks to show they belong in the first team, a team that must have no weaknesses that can be easily exploited. Forwards have to score; wing-backs have to create and stop.

We are coming up to the end of the all-important holiday period so to re-assess. No issues on the left but... still no room for sentiment on the right or in the centre. Good triers are sadly not good enough. For me, a goal scoring threat from the right is a hole that needs filling.

A stronger squad is needed to navigate this time of year, as Liverpool and Spurs have shown; money isn't everything, as Man City, Chelsea and the rest have shown.

If our youngsters cannot adequately step in when needed, then they need strengthening too. At least three have shown enough to get to the end of the season but – are they as strong as our competitors?

John McFarlane Snr
8 Posted 28/12/2018 at 12:39:05
Hi Jim, I live in the past and hope for the future; supporting a club is, in my opinion, a lifelong loyalty enjoying or despairing, winning trophies is the ultimate prize.

If, as in the case of Everton the 'glorious past' is shrouded in the mists of time, it is nonetheless something to be proud of, and I truly wish that my Grandson and those of his generation are rewarded for their loyalty, and that they too are wallowing in past glories when they reach my age.

I had the misfortune of experiencing the worst fate of a football fan, relegation from top flight entertainment, before I reached my teenage years. I have the belief that success comes in cycles, and that you will get your opportunity to live in the past.

In closing, I would like to pay tribute to supporters of Rochdale, and Bury who, given their proximity to both Manchester clubs, cling to the hope that they too may have a 'glorious past' to live in.

Jim Bennings
10 Posted 28/12/2018 at 12:50:43
Money obviously helps but the most important factor is having big leaders of men both on and off the pitch.

The three best examples of that are our 1995 Cup success, the David Moyes team of 2004-05 put together with a shoestring but had big characters and leaders all over the park.

And of course the title-winning Leicester team which was super fit and brilliantly organised by a rigid structure both on and off the pitch.

Playing the game with high energy and enthusiasm should ALWAYS be a priority and that does NOT cost money.

To get this club back on the map fully, we need a decade which includes at least two or three seasons in the Champions League and at least one or two trophies to end that drought.

Brian Patrick
11 Posted 28/12/2018 at 13:17:07
I understand where you are coming from, Jim, although I am a sentimental old Everton fan who's been everywhere with them, home and abroad. I've been involved in football playing as well in three countries.

I think Everton need to jettison the nepotism involved throughout the club, the academy is a laughing stock run by idiots. Football clubs echo the culture they come from so we have a woman now in charge of the club – why? I would prefer someone who is an expert in football matters and has business acumen, not a pen pusher from the civil service.

Eitc is a good idea but, as I said before, we are not an NGO. Equality and diversity are not something a privately owned football club should be involved in, a bit like the EU – a good idea when just a customs union but not as a political patronising bureaucratic leviathan.

I would rather have 11 local scousers in the team rather than Kenwright, Moshiri, and one of the most corrupt oligarchs in the world, Usmanov, as the next interloper.

I'm a big Rugby fan and I watch more Rugby than football. Besides Everton, I don't bother with football and my interest has waned over the years. Gone are the days when you could wave to Derek Mountfield as he mowed his lawn or chat over a pint with Peter Reid. Now the players are told not to live in Liverpool. Equality and Diversity.

Rob Dolby
12 Posted 28/12/2018 at 13:25:42
I am not ashamed of who we are or what we have become. Regardless of status, division or style of football.

There are 92 league clubs and hundreds of semi pro teams each with fans that have a special connection to them. They can't all match Manchester city.

Shortsighted people running the club since Kendal's first spell have got us where we are. Letting him walk away from us to Spain is the biggest mistake the club has made in my time, We can't change that.

As for the old boys network, that exists at every club not sure why anyone would want it to stop. Fans of all generations have their favourites what is wrong with the club employing them after they have stopped playing.

Do you not think that players who have given their all on the pitch deserve any form of respect from the club once they can't perform at the same level?

Coleman will be replaced in time just like everyone else. If he was really that bad Silva will buy a new full back in January. Coleman is now one of the boo boys favourites to have a dig at.

Compare our managers over the last 20 years with the likes of Chelsea, United and City and you will see the gulf in class and pedigree straight away.

Moshiri has invested millions to more or less stand still in the game of billionaires.

When a team gets a pasting like we did against Spurs no amount of gamesmanship or hard nosed off field business acumen is going to help.

From the manager to every player on the park they were better than us.

For us to close the gaps we need to improve the performance of everyone.

If you can't beat them join them. What does that even mean. Our players and manager are mid table is there a fast track approach that says oh well we can't beat them so we will join them.

Brandes and Silva have their chance to close the gaps and improve us. I don't think that top of their list will be introducing professional fouls or removing Sharpy and Graham Stuart from their roles at the club.

Joe McMahon
13 Posted 28/12/2018 at 13:27:51
Jim, I'm with you all the way with this. Way too sentimental to players who are all multi millionaires anyway, not like the days when a player had to find a new career after football.

Hibbert, Ferguson, Baines et al, all at Everton too long, and Ferguson back here. Alex Ferguson knew when to sell and he was a winner.

Also I won't be popular but I'd rather we ditch Z-Cars and walk on the pitch to some proper rock. Imagine walking on the pitch to the intro of Smells Like Teen Spirit!

Tom Bowers
14 Posted 28/12/2018 at 13:36:54
Just human nature to think of the good times when the current times are bleak. We all have great memories of the distant past and very little of the last 20 years.

Yes, there are the odd games, the Man City game 2 seasons ago and one or two games against the RS, but very little else in recent memory. The 5-1 against poor Burnley was nice but did little to erase the debacle against Spurs.

We would like to think optimistically that the future will be brighter but whenever that happens things just stay the same.

Silva will probably get at least the rest of this season to prove he is the ''Messiah'' and that will mean immediate improvement against all the teams in the Premier League, not just Burnley, and I think new signings have to be made very soon to give that scenario any chance.

Darren Hind
15 Posted 28/12/2018 at 14:28:13
Your article is spot on, of course, Jim. We do live in the past, that's because it's a much nicer place than the present.

The pain of seeing what were once lesser clubs sail away from us is almost physical – "If I hadn't seen such riches, I could have lived with being poor".

Tony A captures the Evertonian mentality perfectly. Bruised, battered and stripped of pride... Still their main concern is securing tickets and travel to the next match.

We're irrepressible... We may live in the past (certainly the older ones do), but despite decades of decay and mismanagement, we never give up hope of turning it around and enjoying a beautiful future.

Paul Tran
16 Posted 28/12/2018 at 15:28:11
I'm lucky enough to be old enough to have experienced trophy-winning Everton teams. I do live in the past in that sense, but I'd like to use those sides as my yardstick. Talking about 1995, Moyes's 4th place and Leicester isn't completely relevant. All three were outliers, who didn't follow things up.

Of course, I'd prefer a one-season wonder to nothing, but we're actually trying to build something here, which takes time, planning, execution and a bit of luck. I don't remember any evidence that Kendall's side would do anything until that cup defeat at Old Trafford in 1983.

Spurs, Liverpool and Man City all made mistakes recruiting managers and players before getting things right, and only one of them has won trophies.

Last year, I had an afternoon to kill in Manchester and ended up in the Football Museum. It's got the Cup Winners' Cup on display and I bought myself the DVD of that great night in Rotterdam. When I got to the airport, I stuck it into my laptop in the bar and quickly sensed the crowd of Blues behind me.

You're not alone, Jim, a lot of us love our past. Those memories make us want to create some more!

Jim Bennings
17 Posted 28/12/2018 at 16:15:28

We arguably didn’t follow things up in the 1980’s either though.

Whilst it’s wasn’t a one-off success, it was only a three year period which should in itself yielded even more trophy success than it did, (1985 FA Cup should have been won) and arguably the 1989 FA Cup.

If we had taken the league title success of 1987 into the 90’s and built a dynasty then that would have been something to really build on.

We need a monumental miracle to build a decade of success in the modern era because of how far ahead the top sides are and have been for so long now.

We missed the boat in the early 90’s with the foundation of the Premier League and Sky tv.

Somehow Everton, who were one of the original Big Five went out of fashion and clubs like Newcastle became the new vogue under Kevin Keegan and his brand of sexy football, and then Wenger came into Arsenal and we all know how that went.

The sad thing is, what Arsenal (again a club we were once on a par with) achieved from 1997-2005, that could have been Everton with better management off the pitch and a board with some foresight.

John Keating
18 Posted 28/12/2018 at 17:06:05
No history, no future.

Football is part of our day to day life and asking us to forget the past is like telling us to forget our families, our mams, dads grannies and grandads.

Like families we have bad bits in our past - Carey getting the heave the way he did - and good bits, 63, 70 the 80's.

You just can't erase it and unfortunately you have to live with it, good and bad. To just forget the past of our Club would be similar to just say well that's me I've supported them for 60 years and I've had enough so I'll support the RS.

Not possible. It is what it is and we'll never change. Anyway what constitutes what is the past and what isn't? Burnley last week is the past so we just forget that? The Spurs game we definitely do !!

Paul Tran
19 Posted 28/12/2018 at 17:14:30
Jim, you're right. We got complacent. We persuaded a great coach who didn't want to be manager to be manager. We didn't recruit well enough. And commercially we got left behind.

But in those four years we won the Cup, the League, Cup Winners' Cup and then re-fashioned the team to win the league again. That's more than an outlier. The real scandal was what happened after 1970. That team really should have done more. Complacency again.

Paul Birmingham
20 Posted 28/12/2018 at 18:46:40
Each to their own but without our past ! But it’s something to proud of and som3 of the greatest days of my life. I’d not change anything.

But a quarter century being trophyless takes its toll, and it’s human nature, to make comparisons.

The simple things in life keep me happy, the smell of the half time beers, wit, banter, donkey tips on the gee-gees, coffee etc, memories flood back, but the past won’t keep the Everton FC, business operation, sustainable and so the qwest, looks like a long qwest for success goes on.

It seems to me the youth policy only takes our players to a certain level, and then most bar a handful over the last 20 years, end up in the game but mainly in the lower leagues.

But we have belief, character and ID, and when the next success arrives, it will be an ocean force of celebration and a release.

That will be some day, and hopefully soon and we are all around to enjoy and celebrate.

John McFarlane Snr
21 Posted 28/12/2018 at 18:56:02
Hi John [18], I believe that you have described perfectly, the football supporter no matter what club he/she supports.

I have used Rochdale as an example of supporter loyalty on many occasions, try telling the little lad in Rochdale that his club isn't the best club in the world. He will no doubt be surrounded by Manchester City. Manchester United, and more recently Arsenal and Chelsea so-called supporters.

More power to his elbow. and I would be delighted for him to taste success of any sort.

Paul Tran
22 Posted 28/12/2018 at 19:03:16
Lovely stuff, John. When my Mum and Dad said I was too young to go to the match on my own, I used to go and watch Marine. Loved watching them win the Cheshire League and beat Barnsley in the FA Cup.

So important to preserve that affection for 'your' team, whoever they are; otherwise, everyone would be 'supporting' the usual suspects!

Terry White
23 Posted 28/12/2018 at 19:36:05
I am at a loss, Brian #11. I am also an old-time Blues supporter, first game in 1954, and I totally subscribe to the view expressed on another link, that it doesn't matter what the score was in the last game, I want to know when is the next game and how I can get a ticket for the next match. That's what supporting Everton is all about.

People such as John McFarlane, Sr., Paul Tran, the Abrahams, Peter Mills, understand this. There are bad times on and off the pitch but Everton is still our team, so we support all that they do and look forward with optimism to better times ahead.

And then I read your contribution and it has depressed me. You are quite entitled to your opinion and to express it. What is past is past. Why do we have to be so negative about the future?

I could make the argument that what we do off the pitch in support of those less fortunate than us is much more important than what happens on the pitch which is why the work Everton in the Community and the Everton Former Players' Foundation does is so greatly appreciated outside of the club and is a role model for other clubs.

Yes, performance on the field matters but, if you are a true Blue ,it is not the be all and end all. I am supporting the club in all it matters and, while it has its faults and still does, I believe it is taking great strides to making us respected in the football world.

And why shouldn't a woman be the CEO of a football club? The CEO position of any company requires a competent person who can employ qualified individuals to run specific parts of that company and be accountable to the CEO. It does not require a footballing genius to do that.

You apparently do not think a woman is qualified to be a CEO of Everton FC? Which is why your view depresses me so much. No light at the end of the tunnel for you?

Greg Anderson
24 Posted 28/12/2018 at 20:01:31
Jim, in the end, it is the history that defines the very meaning of the club. It is why the club matters. Without it, there would be nothing there for you to support. It is the sum total of all the teams, coaches, championships, trophies, fans, grounds, experiences, memories, and everything else that have ever been associated with the name "Everton Football Club" since 1878.

Teams come and go, but the club is forever. And our club is special, unique even, above all because we alone have been a competitive, yes, "big club" since the very inception of the Football League back in 1888. Our mere four years outside the top flight did not alter that status.

And the history of the club in turn defines who we are as fans. It is part of the fabric of our lives, even for those of us who have spent many years away from Merseyside or never lived there at all. It is frankly what makes you a little bit more special than the fans of any other club, even if it doesn't always feel like that today.

And, in many ways, the fans are the custodians of the club's all-important history, as you see almost every day on this site. You can be sure that great Everton fans with long memories, like John Mc, Dave Abrahams, Rick Tarleton, and the rest, know far more about the history of our club than anyone who works for it today, not least because they were there for a lot of it, experiencing it first hand.

So when they recall the great and not so great players and games of the past, they are not so much "living in the past" — they are putting things in perspective, reminding us all of who we really are today as Everton fans.

John McFarlane Snr
25 Posted 28/12/2018 at 21:26:10
Hi Terry [23] and Greg [24] you have put me in exalted company, I have enjoyed the company of Dave, Tony, and Peter and only for an illness in Rick's family it would have been a fervent, but fair quintet. In fact, I'm hopeful of another get-together, and it would please me to make your acquaintance although I have an idea that Terry lives in either America or Australia.

It's my opinion that it's the history of our club that reinforces the fabric that binds supporters and players alike. I was brought up on tales of Dixie Dean, Warney Cresswell, Alec Troup etc, I now relate my experiences of watching Alex Young, Bobby Collins, Roy Vernon etc to my 14-year-old Grandson, hoping that before long he will have tales to tell of famous players and successful seasons.

Dave Abrahams
26 Posted 28/12/2018 at 22:07:34
I have followed Everton since I was a little boy and I've seen more bad times than good times on the field in those years but, to be honest, I wouldn't swop or miss one minute of those days for anything.

The bad times have been wiped out by the times we have won a trophy and we certainly celebrated those wins like only Evertonians can, with pure joy.

It's not about the winning or the losing – it's about going to the game with other Evertonians, making friends at away games, and looking forward to meeting them at the next away game.

One lad I met in the fifties, Hughie Foy, he was 14 like me, from the different end of the city, a southender. We remained friends until he passed away. I met him coming out of the Royal Hospital about four years ago:

“How are you, Hughie?” I asked,
“Still struggling with this bastard decease” he replied. It was the big C which I knew...
“Where are you off to now, Hughie?” I asked.
“Can't stop, Dave, I've got to get to the Rocket in Huyton or I'll miss me coach to Birmingham, can't miss the Blues, Dave.”

That's what being a Blue is about, not very well but missing the Blues, past present or future it's all wrapped up in being an Evertonian.

It's been a long time since we celebrated a trophy, I think I'll be here to join in the next one, it won't be long – but the celebrations will.

Laurie Hartley
27 Posted 28/12/2018 at 23:18:00
Well this has turned out to be a great thread. Reading of the pride and loyalty of our most senior supporters is heart warming.

It also makes me realise how great our young supporters are. They have no past to live in like us – only hope for the future. How good are they?

When I think of the glory years, I think of my dad and what he told me before he left this world – “We will be great again”.

I believe that. Despite our lack of success, we are one of a handful of clubs that has never been relegated from the Premier League. You could look at that and say "Well, that's settling for mediocrity.

The other way of looking at it would be to conclude that we are made of stern stuff and, once we have weathered the storm, we can come out on top.

My choice is to believe that we will be great again. Rather than killing you, it is the hope of things to come that keeps you going.

Stan Schofield
28 Posted 29/12/2018 at 00:08:00
Remembering the past is important, regardless of how successful we are at the moment. Everton is defined by its history and its supporters.

We talk about the past, but not because we're not winning things at the moment. I know a Man City supporter, who is obviously chuffed with the current state of City, but who still recalls Colin Bell, Mike Summerbee, et al in the 1968 side that won the league.

Dan Davies
29 Posted 29/12/2018 at 00:19:09
Professionalism not romanticism. Everything that's wrong with this club. The 60s, 70s and 80s are long gone gentlemen.

Too much nepotism and jobs for the boys mentality has held the club back for so long.

Kenwright is a dinosaur. A quarter of a century of nothing.....

Don Alexander
30 Posted 29/12/2018 at 00:31:21
Dan Davis, well said sir! Can anyone explain why Bill "I'll go the moment a rich man buys me out" Kenwright (and they were his own words) still has owt more to do with us than a season ticket he personally buys?
Paul Jones
31 Posted 29/12/2018 at 00:36:45
Stan @28

Yes, they remember their lofty predecessors but they have something look forward to.

We don't.

It's only a game but we're pretty crap at it these days. Our history won't change that but our future might

Terry White
32 Posted 29/12/2018 at 01:23:14
John (#15), my good friend, Peter Mills, may have mentioned, having been born in Broadgreen Hospital and lived in Walton and then Crosby, I have now lived in Northern California for over 30 years before moving 3 years ago to the Florida Panhandle.

I am sure we would get along like a house on fire. Although your time supporting the Blues predates me for a few years, my early days did include Division 2 and then the Division 1 struggles before Moores, Carey, Vernon, Young, Ring, Parker et al came along and changed everything. For those of us so fortunate to see the team going back to those days, they cannot take them away from us and it is no wonder we are nostalgic about what we saw.

There have been many on this thread who have stated much more eloquently than me the importance of history and nostalgia. What is the point of the younger element singing "If you know your history " if they do not care about it and write it off. If only we could be nostalgic but still look forward with optimism, maybe unfounded, to the future.

As I have said previously here, I despair of so-called fans who disparage the club for its efforts on and off the pitch. We all have had our disappointments over the years but at the core of our lives is the love of an entity called Everton Football Cub and I know what it has meant to me and to my family for many, many years. To suggest that the players and staff, however poorly they may have performed, do not have the best interests of the club at heart to me is shameful. As often is the case, these comments are made with the intent of being hurtful without any facts or evidence to support them. Anyway, everyone has an opinion and is entitled to express it as long as it is qualified with the words "in my opinion". Opinions are not facts.

On my next visit back "home", I'll give Peter M notice and perhaps I may be fortunate to join the illustrious group at The Midland. Over the years I have been accused, with some justification, of looking at the fixture list before arranging my travel dates so that I could see the maximum number of home games. I think my dear Dad understood. Although my Mum's father played in goal for Aberdeen a long time ago, I am unsure as to whether she ever did.

When you are next visiting the Florida Panhandle let me know! I wish you good health in 2019. And maybe a Cup win!

Cheers. Terry

Stan Schofield
33 Posted 29/12/2018 at 11:06:12
Paul@31: We always have something to look forward to, which is the next game.

We always have something to look forward to beyond the next game, which is the possibility of glory. Not long ago, some City supporters might have said what you've said, but look at them now, they're in 7th heaven. If we start really competing at the top, and even more, winning trophies, imagine how we'll feel.

Dave Ganley
34 Posted 30/12/2018 at 09:51:57
I agree with a lot of others, the past does matter. Our history and our trophies won should be looked back on if only to keep our expectations higher. We know the standards we should be performing at.

To be honest, we should thank our lucky stars that we have a decent history to draw from. Only Arsenal, Liverpool and Man Utd have a richer history and definitely the Mancs and RS draw on theirs for inspiration.

We should be aiming for trophies and titles like we have in the past. We should never forget what we've won and be motivated to do so again. What kind of history have the Spurs or the Barcodes got to fall back on? Nothing. Chavs and Citeh have next to nothing.

If we forget about our history, then we lose the expectation and no Evertonian should ever lose the expectation of winning trophies.

John McFarlane Snr
35 Posted 30/12/2018 at 20:25:58
Hi Terry [32] it seems that you and I sing from the same hymn sheet, I too take pride from the activities both on and off the field of play. Our club, inspired by the legendary Dr David France, has been at the forefront of the 'Former Players Foundation' which inspired others, headed by the mighty Barcelona to follow suit.

A fellow Evertonian, Dave Kelly, was instrumental in the forming of the 'Food Banks' at Goodison, and his, Liverpool counterpart (as I understand it), also played a part in this undertaking. forming a similar bank at Anfield. A number of clubs now recognise the need to become involved in similar projects, and have followed suit.

Although I know little of the work that Everton in the Community are involved in, I am mindful of the 'sleepouts' that Dave Unsworth, the Under-23s, together with members of the public, have raised enough funds to purchase a property that will be used to house homeless people – another reason, in my opinion, to be proud of Everton Football Club.

As well as the sanctioning of a donation by the much maligned Bill Kenwright, whether from a personal or club source, to help little Bradley Lowery the Sunderland fan in his fight for life, unfortunately it was a battle young Bradley lost.

That for me shows what a football club can be, and I am extremely proud of Everton Football Club, these actions will never be referenced in the record books, but I believe they are the actions of a great and humane club.

Paul Tran
37 Posted 30/12/2018 at 21:12:39
Dead right, Stan. A few years back, I did a couple of days work at the Etihad, a year or two after the takeover.

Despite their wealth, the waiting area was full of pictures of the good old days, Summerbee and Doyle were walking round delighted to be recognised. I got chatting to a lady who asked if I was red or blue, she was running Man City's community programme and said they were modelling everything on Everton, with more funding of course!

If they can respect their heritage, so can we. How about Guardiola, David Silva, Fernandinho & Aguero so we can have their success?

Steve Ferns
38 Posted 02/01/2019 at 22:05:50
I fail to see the point of this article.

So we stop living in the past and forget the proud history and live in the present. That is a midtable club, that has finished in the top 5 just thrice in the last 20 + years. Therefore, accept being a midtable club and accept our place and losing to the sky darlings in the manner you describe.

If you want the attitude you describe then surely you need the club's proud history to say that we're better than that?

Forget the past, live in the present, and you accept we're nowhere near the top 6 clubs, and struggling to match the likes of Leicester over the last five years, hell even Southampton have regularly finished above us. If you know any fans of these clubs, they genuinely think they should finish above us year after year. Just check twitter if you don't.

Brian Williams
39 Posted 02/01/2019 at 22:24:38
Southampton have regularly finished above us. If you know any fans of these clubs, they genuinely think they should finish above us year after year. Just check twitter if you don't.

Steve. I think with posting the above statement you have inadvertently summed up our present, summed up what is the reality of our present.
We shouldn't forget our history and our past glories but maybe (just maybe) they're not relevant in us achieving what we're trying to do now.
Past glories unfortunately stand for nothing without huge financial clout (Leicesters perfect storm excepted).
Look at the likes of Notts Forest, Leeds. Once very successful clubs whose previous success has not saved them from a downward spiral.
I'll struggle to explain this as I mean it, but does our mid eighties success mean we have a right to expect to be challenging at the top?
Don't get me wrong I want that more than anything but are we actually being realistic?
There are two or three teams in the premiership who genuinely believe they can contest the title. There are six who genuinely believe they can qualify for the Champions league.
That leaves fourteen others (from the six) and we're one of those.
Everybody who's not an Evertonian of a certain age considers us as "just one of those fourteen."

At present they're not wrong.

David Ellis
40 Posted 02/01/2019 at 22:38:55
If the past doesn't matter, that means the present doesn't matter either, because it too will soon be in the past. As will the future.

Being proud of our history does not hold us back. Our success in the 60s was driven by Littlewoods money. Our success in the 80s was a bit of a Leicester like-miracle (out of the blue).

Since then, we've fallen behind clubs with bigger fans bases who have learned how to monetise them, and the sugar daddy clubs and clubs from London generally as the economy has shifted in ways that give a relative advantage to the South East. It's not rocket science and entirely understandable without inventing villains to blame like Moyes or Kenwright.

Neil Copeland
41 Posted 03/01/2019 at 20:10:32
Paul #22, similar for me, I used to go and watch South Liverpool at Holly Park. They were pretty mediocre but it didn’t matter, I use to enjoy the occassion. I remember them playing Tranmere at home in the FA Cup 2nd round once. Long since wound up and Holly Park is now South Parkway train station.

I was also fortunate enough to see the eighties team, something I will always treasure and something that will always make me want it again.

Memories are good because they bring hope, without hope there is only fear.

We will see success again, never give up hope.

Add Your Comments

In order to post a comment, you need to be logged in as a registered user of the site.

» Log in now

Or Sign up as a ToffeeWeb Member — it's free, takes just a few minutes and will allow you to post your comments on articles and Talking Points submissions across the site.

About these ads

© ToffeeWeb