I am absolutely outraged by the rush to try to absolve Son Heung-Min and Serge Aurier from any responsibility for the potentially career-ending injury to Andre Gomes.
First, the commentary team minimized Son’s intent and ignored Aurier’s role. Then Pochettino claimed the tackle was not a red card offense, and of course the likes of Jamie Carragher gave Son a high-five for the tackle.
The fact is that both Son and Aurier should have been sent off. There is no point claiming that there was no intent. Intent, “follows the bullet” meaning that, when you commit a reckless act, you are responsible for the consequences – even if you didn’t intend every detail of those consequences. You can’t fire a gun in a crowded street and claim you didn’t intend to hit a child.
The referee also bears some responsibility for what happened. If Son had been booked, as he should have been, for diving earlier in the game, he would never have felt free to make a tackle of that level of reckless irresponsibility. Atkinson was letting Spurs get away with murder throughout the match.
I am sure Son’s distress at seeing Gomes’s foot being kept on by his sock and a couple of muscle strands was authentic but that doesn’t mean he should be let off the hook. Can you imagine the outcry if an Everton player did that to one of the curly-haired darlings of the Premier League’s Favored Five? There wouldn’t be any “There was no intent to hurt anybody” then.
Neil Taylor got a two-match ban for his horrific tackle on Seamus Coleman’s leg – one for each break. If he had spat at the referee, he would have been banned for six matches. Players play too low a price for incidents like the one that has put Gomes on crutches for months to come.
Reader Comments (77)
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1 Posted 04/11/2019 at 08:44:26
Weve had Funes Mori hobble Origi and Ross Barkley caught Jordan Henderson with a studs in the ankle tackle in the Goodison derby back in December 2016.
So whilst I can understand this post, there are going to be many more instances where players break legs, ankles, elbows, shoulders either through hard tackles, nasty fouls or just genuine unlucky accidental falls (remember when Andrei Kanchelskis dislocated his shoulder after that Lee Sharpe foul).
Its a contact sport and there are going to be nasty injuries from time to time, our players will get them, and our players will at times cause them too, thats life in football, the referees dont understand that its a contact sport and before long tackling will be outlawed along with heading the ball.
2 Posted 04/11/2019 at 09:21:34
But the thing is, we are SO unlucky!!!
If it's not appalling officiating against us, it's long-term injuries to players who are playing well or getting into their stride. Just as Bolasie is forging a great understanding with Lukaku, his ACL goes, and he's never the same again. Bernard does his ligaments. Gbamin doesn't even get going properly before he gets a long term injury. Jimmy Husband, John Connolly, Ross Barkley, Brian Oviedo, Seamus Coleman, James Macarthy, broken limbs then not the same player.
A few days ago I said that, in my opinion, Andre Gomes is the most technically gifted midfielder we've had since Colin Harvey. His performance in the Anfield Derby last season underlined it. Then this happens, just as he's getting the machine running after a previous injury.
The officiating against Everton is another issue. The game looks, on the face of it, corrupt, and the authorities and pundits appear to have it in for Everton. How are we ever going to be able to get any momentum?
3 Posted 04/11/2019 at 09:36:35
Its fine tuned only to benefit the top six (not including Leicester despite them winning the League more recently than Liverpool, Man United, Arsenal and Spurs).
Mark Clattenburg actually came out last year and told us that when he was referee, he made decisions influenced by players for the big teams, the 2007 derby match the biggest indicator of the corruption process.
VAR is just exposing the level of biased corruption this season.
Not one person knows why that Dele Alli handball wasnt awarded as an Everton penalty even more so after such a long delay.
The Michael Keane penalty decision at Brighton was beggars belief.
I can assure you that Everton will not benefit from one single VAR decision this season.
4 Posted 04/11/2019 at 09:49:01
5 Posted 04/11/2019 at 09:57:43
Again I agree!
I feel little love for the game nowadays, its become too much a business (a corrupt one) and less a sport.
Its too scrutinised and based around needless technology now and the overall freedom and fluidity of the game has evaporated.
6 Posted 04/11/2019 at 10:21:46
Then Match of the Day saw Chapman, Kilbane and Keown decide that it should have only been a yellow and Aurier was simply unlucky to get in the way.
The important thing that the tv highlights decided to not show was the earlier incident between Son and Gomes, for which the radio pundits were berating Son for goig down holding his face at the slightest of touches.
Context is very important in this case. Son was aggrieved at Gomes and in the heat of the moment acted with recklessness. He is therefore "that type of player". He also had show his cheating personality trying to dive theatrically after contact from Mina- which rightly spotted by others here, should have gained him a yellow card, but didn't.
on a lesser note, does anyone know who the VAR man was? He should never be on it again.
7 Posted 04/11/2019 at 10:28:37
Let's call it how it is. Son was pissed off with not getting a decision against Gomes 2 minutes before. He has a nibble at Iwobi, then another go at Gomes for a ball he can not win, coming in from behind in the process. Plenty of blame to be handed out there. Whilst Aurier may be a victim of football circumstances, Son certainly is not. He has to reap what he sowed.
8 Posted 04/11/2019 at 10:39:17
I ran the Sky coverage when I got home from the game and post match Carragher actually suggested all off the ball challenges like Sons could be punished with a red card - Id be happy with that.
10 Posted 04/11/2019 at 10:44:06
11 Posted 04/11/2019 at 11:39:59
12 Posted 04/11/2019 at 11:47:33
Delli Ali even referred to Gomes as "the player" in his post match interview. His name escaped him.
This Spurs outfit are under a lot of pressure and rumours abound about their dressingroom problems.
We are under pressure too but they showed a cynicism that the authorities failed to punish.
13 Posted 04/11/2019 at 12:06:45
It was made to bring him down...…..which it did with unfortunate consequences.
He knew what he had done and the horror that followed was ultimately caused by him. I hope Son has a few sleepless nights for what he ultimately caused.
We are all still angry but it was a 100% freak incident. That's no comfort to Gomes, EFC or us fans though. As Jim Benning mentions above Colemans tackle vs Burnley could easily have been a horror tackle on another day.
14 Posted 04/11/2019 at 12:20:15
In my opinion, the laws of the game would simply have to be clarified rather than changed.
A player can be sent off for violent conduct - ie striking another player. Because the ball is not within reach, Son has struck Gomes with his leg. If he blatantly kicked a player he would be sent off, why is this so different?
15 Posted 04/11/2019 at 12:28:07
16 Posted 04/11/2019 at 12:34:33
I'm betting our players aren't rushing to get on the front cover of our next program. The last two are now out injured.
17 Posted 04/11/2019 at 12:40:11
18 Posted 04/11/2019 at 12:53:31
The darlings will get all the VAR decisions, the others will always get screwed.
As Jim says, we will never get a favourable VAR review, if the corrupt ref even allows it to go to review.
19 Posted 04/11/2019 at 14:12:31
“Martin (Atkinson because its fitting), hang on think about it, Liverpool cant lose at home, they dont lose home games especially the local derby, lets quickly think of an excuse we can use to rule it out”
“What do you suggest? Maybe say Sigurdsson stood on a sacred part of the Anfield pitch?”
“ Nah just say you already blew the whistle for full time, NOW FUCKIN QUICKLY BLOW YOUR WHISTLE! “
20 Posted 04/11/2019 at 17:10:26
As ever in our society, people seem more concerned with the perpetrator than the victim:... what about poor Gomes who seems a thoroughly nice and decent young man who now faces months of rehab and the challenge of getting back to his best?
Reading over 500 posts on this site under one heading or another, we are all clearly and understandably in a bit of shock here, upset, angry and very downcast. Our players must be a lot worse seeing what happened to their mate at close quarters and we need to lift ourselves so we can lift them. We have two vitally important games coming up which we must win and we cannot go into them feeling depressed at our lot.
Marco has a lot of work to do this week!!
22 Posted 04/11/2019 at 17:26:56
Son fouled Gomes. Did he foul him in revenge for Gomes putting his arm into his face moments before? I would say he did, yes. Did he go out to injure Gomes? No he did not, in no way whatsoever. He wanted to trip him up, to put in a hard challenge in response to a perceived injustice. He wanted to give him a kick, not injure him. There is a world of difference between the two.
This is football. There is not a player on the planet who hasn't made a bad tackle at some point. Paul Scholes did it for the best part of 20 years. If Gomes hadn't have got injured, we wouldn't even be talking about Son's tackle. It was a yellow card at most.
After the tackle, Gomes took at least another stride and got his studs caught in the turf. At the same time, Aurier put in a block tackle. These two things led to him breaking his leg just as much as Son's tackle.
Look at the actions of the Everton players after the tackle. They didn't surround the referee or go to get Son. They went straight to Gomes to comfort him and get him help, and they deserve commending for doing so. They also went to console a devastated Son.
Bad tackles and injuries are part of football unfortunately. Players sometimes injure themselves when there is no contact. Son's tackle was a foul - no more, no less. You cannot increase the punishment because of what then happened to Gomes a stride or two after that tackle.
23 Posted 04/11/2019 at 17:34:28
Contrast that with yesterday. All of the players knew that Sons tackle was not in the same league as Knockaerts lunge on Baines. If Sons tackle had been out of order, Coleman would have been the first to give him a rocket. Coleman didnt react the same way this time, and that is a true reflection of Sons tackle. Was it a bad tackle? Yes. Was it an over the top potential leg breaking tackle? No it wasnt. Of course, there was a tragic outcome a couple of strides later, when Gomes got his studs caught. But you cant lay all of the blame for that at Son.
24 Posted 04/11/2019 at 17:39:45
Not all deliberate fouls are a red card though. Fernandinho does professional fouls for City every week where he targets the man to prevent a counter attack. He gets a yellow every time. Should these yellows automatically become reds if the player tackles gets injured?
25 Posted 04/11/2019 at 18:20:53
Modern football with VAR like I always said will outmode the laws and find loop holes we hadnt considered. The laws were never written with technology in mind, and it shows. They are totally out of sync with the game.
Some posts believe this type of tackle is one thats regularly made and everyone makes one from time to time. Well guys that aint good enough.
If that type of tackle carried a heavy ban, starting at 4 games for a first offense then players would think twice. People claim heat of the moment but actually you can control yourself far more when there are greater goals at play. Such a system were any subsequent offences that recur within 12 months should be catered for to carry additional multi match ban.
Furthermore take City and the other lot over the road. Going to ground in any situation is stupid and dangerous. Pep especially knows it takes you out of the game. So you pressure and press, you stay on your feet.
Do they to ground sometimes? Yes, of course they do but the majority of time committing a tackle like that is indisciplined, hurts the team and they wont stand for it.
Staying on your feet is an essential part of coaching nowadays. The crude and brutal ways of the past need to be forgotten, and tackles such as these appropriately sanctioned.
I dont care if its one of our own, no professional deserves a prolonged spell on the sidelines because a player cannot keep their shit together. If they cant well the price they pay should make them think twice. As it is that red card will be a 2/3 game ban. Not in any way sufficient.
I had one person say that any ban should include the next time the two team meet in the league. As the team often sinned against rarely benefits from the red. Its out there and something worth considering.
26 Posted 04/11/2019 at 18:29:51
I possibly agree with your last paragraph but thats about it.
You will never stop bad tackles or fouls. Because not every tackle can win the ball every time, life is not a sanitised utopia. The only way you will stop fouls and bad tackles is if football becomes non contact, in which case no challenges will be made. Is that what you want?
27 Posted 04/11/2019 at 18:44:51
The immediate cause was the action of Son, but a prior cause was the officiating that changed the course of the game.
28 Posted 04/11/2019 at 19:01:51
All amazed we didn't get two pens yesterday.
All amazed at the decision at Brighton.
All amazed how poor we were when they beat us.
29 Posted 04/11/2019 at 19:12:03
30 Posted 04/11/2019 at 19:17:26
Football is a business or business have to adapt and be agile to survive but this season with VAR, and the injustice its causing and loss of momentum in games, will turn fans away for good.
The injustice of VAR, the luck and incredible descisions of Old Nick, are eternal.
This season its survival and no more. The fatal flaws in our style of football means we will rarely score more than 2 goals a game.
Theres not much more to say, other than I hope André Gomes, surgery has gone well, and he makes a full recovery.
No doubt Soton, is massive, and will we start on the offensive or replay the recent Leicester win down there, to suss them out?
God only knows, but we need a miracle.
31 Posted 04/11/2019 at 19:17:32
I've not read every post to this article so forgive me if I repeat anything.
Spurs have been better than us for quite a while now. However on yesterdays showing they didn't look anything special. I thought they were quite physical. They tried to bully some of our more lightweight players and did not look like a quality side.
Son is a player I have admired for a time now. He is quick, skilful and has an end product. The foul was cynical, an act of revenge and the red card was fully justified. Whether or not Aurier should have been sanctioned I'm not sure.
What irks me about the game is the fact that we had an opportunity to get at Spurs psychologically by staying on our feet and making them out to be the team trying to buy fouls. Richarlison's antics were at times embarrassing. I want to see our players rise above such nonsense and I'm afraid that until we do VAR will not look at us favourably. We should have had two penalties. We didn't get them because of earlier deceptions.
I want Everton to be seen as the greatest professional sporting club on the planet unlike our neighbours and other Sky 6 darlings.
Well done, Cenk, you are a credit to EFC.
32 Posted 04/11/2019 at 19:22:32
On VAR, Ill put my mortgage on it deciding either the outcome of the league winners or relegation for someone come May.
33 Posted 04/11/2019 at 19:22:55
34 Posted 04/11/2019 at 19:29:54
I thought VAR would make the game more corrupt as the TV companies control all the cameras, angles etc... So far, I think I am bang on the money.
35 Posted 04/11/2019 at 19:35:51
Atkinson has been officiating for over a decade and is consistently horrendous at officiating. I'm curious to know who is actually on an independent panel judging these numpties.
Everton should be writing to the FA/Premier League saying that we no longer entertain or welcome Martin Atkinson to Goodison Park in any capacity.
36 Posted 04/11/2019 at 19:38:42
37 Posted 04/11/2019 at 19:49:13
38 Posted 04/11/2019 at 19:58:10
The refs are poor, none from England officiated at the last World Cup, and if we can get players from all over the world, then why not referees, because the present lot are simply not good enough, and are simply getting away with murder at the minute.
I appreciate it's a very hard job, an impossible task even, so I also think that football needs to rip up the rule book and really start dealing with the cheating, because it really is disgusting at the minute.
Delefaoe, got a pen off Atkinson from the studio the night before, but Richarlison got nothing, and Son got away with a booking, and Klopp said Mane is not a diver and there was definitely contact when he went down the other day.
Let's clean up football. I read on T/W that it was definitely a foul on Delefaoe, but would him or Mane have gone down off the same contact if they had been through on goal?
39 Posted 04/11/2019 at 20:17:09
Tony@38: Klopp's utterings are another example of cheating and general lack of integrity. His repugnant win-at-all-costs attitude reflects what's wrong with the game. He might be good coach, but he's a repugnant piece of work.
40 Posted 04/11/2019 at 20:22:44
41 Posted 04/11/2019 at 20:30:22
His ankle break was a particular event in a particular course of the game, and altering the course of the game via the cards would with 'practical certainty' have led to that event not happening. Not 100% certainty, but practical certainty.
42 Posted 04/11/2019 at 20:42:51
In my opinion, It would be better if the VAR official at Stockley Park had an ex-player sitting alongside him. None of the officials have ever played the game, not that I'm aware of anyway, and so they don't understand the contact that goes on in penalty areas. I've read today that the handball against Dele Alli was not given as a penalty because the presence of Mina caused Alli to handle the ball. FFS, it was a corner, where did the VAR official (Anthony Taylor) expect Mina to be? Mina was where he should have been, in or around the 6-yard box, causing havoc in the spurs defence. Surely an ex-player could explain to the VAR official there's always going to be contact from corners and free kicks around the penalty area.
On a final note, is Oumar Niasse going to be the only player in the history of football to receive a retrospective three-match ban for diving, and earning a penalty from which we scored? No longer, due to VAR, will a penalty be awarded for diving, as surely VAR will overrule the referees decision, and a player given a yellow card instead for diving. I doubt very much, a few days later, the FA will look at an incident such as Niasse's and deem it to be a dive if VAR have awarded a penalty.
So there you are, Oumar, you have your own little piece of Premier League history!!
43 Posted 04/11/2019 at 20:49:04
44 Posted 04/11/2019 at 22:30:19
I'd make all deliberate fouls a red-card offence. You look at rugby and how strictly it is refereed and we allow tackles: “He took one for the team” as an every-day occurrence which is almost lauded by everyone.
Football could be cleaned up at a stroke if there was the will to do it – a player arguing with the ref gets sent off, a deliberate foul is a red card, simulation is a red card.
If these rules were applied, would managers not instruct their players to avoid such scenarios? Of course they would... and we would see better games for it.
45 Posted 04/11/2019 at 23:12:25
I'm really just making an observation, that if the officiating had been done well, Gomes would not have a broken ankle. It's just an observation of something (the broken ankle) that happened to result due to the particular prior events that included bad officiating.
I suppose this observation is just an expression of frustration, that says if only the officiating had been done properly we wouldn't have ended up where we are. It's just an 'if only'.
46 Posted 04/11/2019 at 23:14:08
The problem is...
The majority of tactical fouls are committed by the top teams.
The most frequent and high profile divers all seem to play for the top teams.
The players who get in refs faces all seem to play for top teams.
The Premier League makes money from the top teams... Nothing will change.
47 Posted 04/11/2019 at 23:29:45
In short, this systematic bias led to Gomes having a broken ankle.
48 Posted 04/11/2019 at 23:38:11
And the refs get another earner running VAR when they are not out on the pitch. They get two bites at screwing up.
As to the Alli handball, it was handball in the modern interpretation, but because he was tangled with Mina in a crowd of bodies, the ref didn't make a clear and obvious error in not giving a penalty, because in the melee he couldn't have been expected to reliably see it.
So they have managed to layer more complexity into the rules of the "beautiful game" and screw it up in the process. Brilliant, Mr Riley and his cohorts.
49 Posted 04/11/2019 at 23:59:20
Take it this way: if someone punches another person and they go down but are able to scramble away, the person who punches can be charged with assault (yellow card). However, if that person punches someone and they go down and crack their head open, the person who punches can be charged with grievous body harm (red card).
That is why I believe the tackle deserved a yellow but the consequences deserved a red.
50 Posted 05/11/2019 at 08:22:07
51 Posted 05/11/2019 at 08:48:27
Already the “establishment” is defending itself with the inevitable “appeal” against the red card.
If I had anything to do with Everton, I would this week host a total staff meeting and issue a “pulling together” speech. Moreover, I would immediately call for a high-level meeting with Referees and VAR Officials.
I would like to see this as a wake-up call to our management structure and a real turning point.
Well, I can dream, can't I?
52 Posted 05/11/2019 at 08:58:14
I mentioned it on the "Horrible..." thread after seeing it after getting home on Sunday night not to be surprised if it was appealed.
At the time of the incident everyone knew Son was out to bring him down deliberately, I remember straight away thinking yellow. It was only after a few seconds later when the players started reacting that we realised something far worse had occurred.
Obviously not with the consequences of Gomes, but we see these tackles every game, by us as much as any other team. Most times the player gets a yellow and we play on.
What would happen if Son fouled Gomes and he suffered no injury. The intent by Son was still there.
What would happen if Son fouled Gomes who gets up and tries to run off, say, the sore knee he suffered in the tackle but after about 5 minutes can't shake it off and has to be subbed.
One stage further. Gomes goes for a scan the next day which shows he's out for 6 weeks. Does Son get a retrospective red card? I really don't know the answer. It was a tackle we see every game but this time the consequence was far worse than normal.
I did expect the red to be appealed, however, because of the uproar of other fuck-ups in the game, VAR, I think the authorities will not overturn the decision. I think they would overturn had the other contentious decisions not happened.
53 Posted 05/11/2019 at 09:12:49
If you foul someone while trying to get the ball (–and without doing something dangerous) then fair enough.
If you kick out at someone with no intent for the ball and you end up injuring them, then of course you should.
The real problem here is the codification of the rules. Anyone who has played understands what a dangerous tackle, or a deliberate foul looks like. But we don't have those people running the games; we have people who need a black and white set of criteria.
The Son - Gomes example is common sense. We have people trying to apply whatever rules Sky reported from the PGMOL (or whatever they're called). They've been convinced that only 'studs up' is a red card.
My measure is that if someone deliberately went through my mate without any intent for the ball – I'd be straight over.
54 Posted 05/11/2019 at 09:13:29
Son's actions are an immediate cause of Gomes' injury, but the systematic bias in the officiating appears to represent a systematic failure of the Premier League. It could be argued, and I would argue, that this failure is a failure to ensure a Duty of Care. The systematic failure can be argued to be an organisational failure. A root cause of players having an increased risk of injury, in contravention of the legal duty on the Premier League, as a Duty Holder under HSWA, to ensure that that risk is reduced to a level as low as reasonably practicable.
Just a thought. As George McKane says, something needs to be done.
55 Posted 05/11/2019 at 09:55:53
Players are tripped deliberately and accidentally God knows how many thousands of times in their careers and only on a miniscule number of occasions will serious injury ensue.
Son tripped him; he didn't put in a ‘leg-breaker'. Cynical and deserving of a yellow card but nothing more in my opinion.
56 Posted 05/11/2019 at 09:57:13
57 Posted 05/11/2019 at 10:05:22
“It was a challenge in which Heung-Min Son wanted to bring him down, he was maybe thinking of the tackle on him from Gomes a little earlier on.
Obviously he wasn't expecting that to happen, but if he didn't make the challenge Gomes' leg wouldn't be broken. It's as simple as that really.”
He might be a lovely lad off the field who is devastated by the consequences of his decision. But there has to be consequences for deliberate actions that cause long-term harm to someone.
58 Posted 05/11/2019 at 10:10:36
Regarding intent, and in contrast to the above, the officiating bias appears, on the face of it, to be clear intent to favour some clubs over others, with a clear and 'reasonably foreseeable' consequence of increasing the risk of injury to players of clubs unflavoured by the bias.
59 Posted 05/11/2019 at 10:37:09
If you have intent and cause something then you are responsible for that outcome.
And you don't need to intend that outcome – it just needs to be clear to a reasonable person that it could happen. If you kick someone then it's perfectly reasonable to think that it might cause an injury. Didn't want to injure him badly? Then don't kick him!
It's a pretty important legal principle, but also one that exists in everyday life; we teach it to kids from a very early age. Don't throw a rock, look both ways before you cross the road, don't leave toys on the stairs... you might get away with it lots of times but you might also get unlucky once.
All that and, well, it's in the rules. He's bang to rights.
Does he feel terrible? I'm sure he does. There might be a clue in the way he feels as to his culpability.
60 Posted 05/11/2019 at 12:51:11
So much effort is being put into multiple posts on threads since the incident to justify a clear intent to foul on an Everton player. The result of which is a potentially career ending injury. We are just so reasonable. aren't we?
61 Posted 05/11/2019 at 12:56:11
I know what you are saying but if you actually believe that then we could say that about every tackle. I mentioned in another thread that if we follow that train of thought we will make it a non-contact sport.
When someone goes in to a tackle how do you prove there is malice, a split second late and catching someone happens every game. How do you prove there was or was not malice?
In every single tackle during a game, there is a possibility that you could cause an injury. That being the case, nobody would tackle.
62 Posted 05/11/2019 at 13:08:02
You're absolutely spot on in my opinion. I think those saying there's thousands of tackles like the Son - Gomes tackle, that happen without injury, are missing the point.
And those who say the tackle wasn't vindictive or malicious? For me, I'm reminded of a title that Lyndon used recently for one of his articles: There are none so blind that will not see.
I'm hoping Everton come out publicly and on record, that they are disappointed with Spurs contesting the red card. Everton won't. They are a very nice club.
But when one of your own is chased and hacked down, resulting in horrific injury, I'd like to see a strong defense of our player, and admonishment from Everton towards Spurs. We really are too nice sometimes.
63 Posted 05/11/2019 at 13:12:16
I just realized my comments, directly after yours, read as a rebuke of your opinion.
That wasn't my intent. I'm sick of arguing about all of this, I only wanted to comment on Ernie's posts.
64 Posted 05/11/2019 at 13:28:18
It's a great pity this incident happened.
Had it not, we could concentrate on the actual game, performance and result.
Oh yes, and Silva's future...
65 Posted 05/11/2019 at 15:24:16
When it happened, Nevin and Green on 5Live mentioned Son and Aurier but it took ages to establish other than it being an Everton player, who had been the victim of what they were describing as a bad injury. Finally, after what felt like ages, did Andre's name come up.
Then all we have heard is how upset Son was. It's even been mentioned in 5live's news headlines today about he's progressing in regards to playing in Europe this week.
Oh and the media and fans saying he's "not like that"??? He's got previous for diving and a few bad challenges. He might be lovely to interview and generally a good person but come on. He is "like that" because he went for an opponent in a dangerous manner. And this is not the first time.
There are extenuating circumstances because Andre was unlucky as to what happened in the chain of events as in other times he might not have got his studs caught and been able to fall away from Aurier.
But why is the media so keen to focus on the guy (in a sympathetic way) who basically brought about this mess? They maybe can't focus with forensic detail on Andre's injury but they could ask more about the lamentable record of Spurs who show poor discipline when under pressure - diving, bad challenges, on pitch melees.
They have at least 3 known divers who the media turn a blind eye to while the histrionics of Richarlison has meant he has been earmarked by the FA as someone not to give anything to despite clear fouls in some moments.
66 Posted 05/11/2019 at 15:38:59
67 Posted 05/11/2019 at 19:59:38
It was odds on regardless of what was said by the authorities immediately after the game.
Once everyone had calmed down and they had thought about it there was no other option.
The thing is now they have to keep consistency after their daft remarks opened the can of worms.
In a way I am glad that they admitted their mistake and now I would like to see them admit the mistakes they made not giving Richarlison a penalty - though his theatrics hardly helped his cause. And their even more atrocious decision of Alli's handball.
Don't hold your breath
68 Posted 05/11/2019 at 20:06:57
69 Posted 05/11/2019 at 21:06:57
In the case of a fair fight why would you judge the person who landed a punch where the recipient fell and hurt themselves badly because of how they fell as worse than someone who threw an equally weighty punch where the recipient just happened to miraculously land on the only bean bag in a thousand miles? Do we judge the boxers whose opponents have died as any worse than any other boxer? Not unless there is a specific reason to.
I stand by my assessment that this was simply a yellow card offence that had unusually severe consequences.
70 Posted 05/11/2019 at 23:05:21
Intent is important, but I don't think it's just intent to harm, but includes intent to do something that has a good chance of causing harm. Perhaps 'negligence' is a term that might capture this.
71 Posted 05/11/2019 at 23:12:40
Instead they have the look of "well we realise our player's hissy fit led to the debacle but we still want him available ASAP". "Oh and please feel sorry for him."
I was of the understanding Son was inconsolable. But he's good to step out ASAP for them.
But as I said, the ref messed this up with the card change.
This will only make for bad blood between the clubs now.
72 Posted 06/11/2019 at 03:32:30
Okay, the challenge isn't the worst, but he's made no play for the ball. Call it a freak landing, but Gomes would not expect to be challenged like that from behind when clear. He would also have known Aurier was there so likely have been shifting his body to get past him. So it's a set of circumstances that ended up with one player missing 20 minutes of play after taking out another player who won't kick a ball for months.
I think Pochetino is being a bit spoilt in complaining about the outcome of the game being changed. Overall, I think they have come out okay! Yes, Son missed the last part of the game, but our most influential player in the middle just got brought down and had to leave the game. Even if it wasn't as bad an injury but he still couldn't continue, it would look like a hatchet job, because it wasn't a genuine attempt to tackle. He was never getting the ball.
73 Posted 06/11/2019 at 03:38:21
Either way, the subsequent overturning either proves Atkinson's incompetence, or VAR's shortcomings. Or both.
74 Posted 06/11/2019 at 03:54:36
It stinks of the media and the FA overruling VAR and Atkinson because it is a top 6 club.
We are still the only club to have a player banned for simulation even though Mane, Salah, Rashford and James do it every opportunity
75 Posted 06/11/2019 at 04:54:30
I am absolutely disgusted with this. Disgusted.
Anything I say will just turn into an incoherent rant, filled with expletives.
This is absolutely disgusting for me. It smacks of crooked favoritism, and a lack of bravery by the FA. They rarely, rarely overturn decisions. To overturn a premeditated tackle where a man was hunted down, from behind, with the ball no where near him (the player executing the filthy tackle), whose end game was only injury and maiming, is absolutely disgusting.
Supremely shameful for me. I read folks a bit older than I, talking about how the game is going down the tubes. This a a perfect example of that for me.
Where in the world is the justice for the outcome of this wicked tackle?
76 Posted 06/11/2019 at 05:04:40
If this doesn't galvanize this team, nothing will. They've had one of their own chopped down and severely injured. Then the league governing body basically removing any punishment for the heinous act.
Were I Silva, I'd use this as the greatest "us against the world" motivation.
I so desperately want to upset the Big 6 / Darling apple cart. The league itself is protecting them in every way possible. God I'd love to bust up their party at their posh Country Club.
I'm seriously infuriated by all of this. Outraged is an understatement.
77 Posted 06/11/2019 at 05:30:54
I think if you listen to the ex players on sky and how they thought about it that I wouldn't put too much emphasis on how the players will react. They are professionals and appreciate the risks involved. They probably won't pay too much attention to what has happened with Son as it has limited impact on them
But I have to agree with your previous post. Any panel looking at the incident will have seen the swipe at Iwobi beforehand. It's the actions of a guy who has lost it. He wasn't in control, took a swipe at another player. If Gomes gets up and walks away it's a booking. He doesn't. It's not like it was a legitimate tackle that had freaky outcome
If you are driving your car recklessly and have a crash but no-one is injured, then you face basic charges. If, in a similar incident, you end up killing someone, your reckless driving could result in a more serious charge, can't it?
78 Posted 06/11/2019 at 05:46:56
In your example your actions would be judged but so would the outcome. Did you drive dangerously? Did you drink drive? And then, are we looking at traffic violations or multiple deaths? It's the act, the outcome and some form of intent.
Son didn't intend to specifically break Andre's ankle (that's very specific) - but he should know that hacking him down could cause an injury.
Again, don't want to seriously hurt someone then don't hack them down. There's a ball there to be won and that's the game.
79 Posted 15/11/2019 at 01:27:36
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