Irrespective whether you see Kieran Dowell as a long-term project at Everton, I am becoming increasingly alarmed at his lack of game time at Derby County. I checked his stats, currently standing at 7 appearances, of which 6 were in August!
Checking recently, Derby are using him as a non-participating substitute and it's not that Derby are tearing up the Championship. Has Philip Cocu decided that he is not his sort of player? He does not appear to be suffering from injuries.
So why is he there? Especially with demand for his loan services in the summer window. If he is not playing, get him back and make a decision on what he needs to be doing. Bench-warming is no good for this young lad!
Reader Comments (49)
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1 Posted 10/11/2019 at 18:36:51
If the lad is on here - then sorry but that is what I see in the reports.
2 Posted 10/11/2019 at 21:31:31
3 Posted 10/11/2019 at 21:43:05
l also noticed he wasnt playing that much. Shame really, youd think he was ideal for Cocu.
He might of actually got a game here with Bernard out. Barkley didnt play much for Leeds before he returned if l remember correctly. Hes not a youngster anymore and needs to play. Can he be recalled in January? He might get back in the team by then. If not he needs to move on. I thought it a bit strange that Sheffield Utd didnt take him back.
4 Posted 10/11/2019 at 21:44:55
We have been talking about Jack Rodwell and what has ailed him. The same applies to Dowell: something amiss, possibly in his mentality.
I hope that he might yet fulfil himself.
5 Posted 10/11/2019 at 21:45:33
Im sure thats what we done with Brendan Galloway, during one of his loans, but I could be wrong., but Im sure, such a stint at WBA, Pullis, took the mick, big style.
6 Posted 10/11/2019 at 22:15:01
Ironically John Lundstram at Sheff Utd has played well this season but he's closing in on his 26th birthday years after leaving us to make a career in lower-league football, but with the best will in the world Dowell cannot expect to stay with us given he's now 22.
7 Posted 10/11/2019 at 22:32:04
8 Posted 10/11/2019 at 22:36:39
At his age and like Matty Foulds whom, Ive watched regularly in the U23s the best part of nearly 4 years, Id say, Matty has more chance of etching a professional full time career than Kieran, because he has a good engine and works hard.
Everton as his parent club, and still their player, must look after him now, and prepare him for the after life, beyond EFC.
Scary but of the same group, Liam Walsh, whom, I thought was a very good player, went to Bristol City in 01/2018, but Ive barely heard a word, since and hes now at Coventry on loan.
It shows, that all the early promise, professional contracts, doesnt guarantee anything, in life and football.
9 Posted 10/11/2019 at 23:22:02
10 Posted 10/11/2019 at 23:33:07
Yes youd have to think it was Sheffield Utd that didnt want him. Even though hed be relatively cheap. They took Besic instead... Surely he wouldnt turn down a premier league team.
12 Posted 11/11/2019 at 01:46:03
13 Posted 11/11/2019 at 08:25:48
Maybe the proof is in the pudding there as they say.
Wilder likes a team that works its socks off and from every report I read on Dowell apparently hes a bit of a lazy arse.
Either that or hes just not good enough for top level football, it happens, we need to stop harping on about players that probably will never make the grade here.
Hes probably just another Tony Grant, some talent but attitude wise just not good enough.
14 Posted 11/11/2019 at 09:17:06
You can coach most things “into” players but if they lack “heart” and desire then youre trying to juggle jelly. Weve all seen lads at different levels with masses of talent but no heart for a fight and theyre the first off the training ground and into the showers. When I have watched Dowell hes been a peripheral figure offering the occasional flash of brilliance before disappearing. Sending him out to toughen up doesnt seem to be working but hes never looked, IMHO, to have enough bottle to go with his undoubted talent. Not necessarily the fault of any FF coaches.
15 Posted 11/11/2019 at 14:21:30
Perhaps I'm the impatient one.
16 Posted 11/11/2019 at 15:38:45
17 Posted 11/11/2019 at 15:53:19
He will need to step it up soon and prove himself for Derby like Leon did years ago. I have not given up on him just yet.
18 Posted 11/11/2019 at 17:06:33
Dowell - Dowell is a gifted footballer, blessed with a great left foot, good vision, a decent passing range and a howitzer of a shot.
- Keatley (2019)
Bilyaletdinov - "He's a tall, athletic player with good ball control and an eye for a pass and a lethal left foot when he is in the mood."
- Lloyd and Kenrick (2012)
Sometimes players have some definite big league skill, just not everything required to be a big league player.
Whatever some Sheffield United supporters feel about Dowell, their title winning run last season went down to the wire; during which Wilder left a healthy Kieran on the bench.
Having watched how Wilder sets his teams up to play this season; well-organized, aggressive in defense and attack for all 90 minutes, I accept he knows what he's looking at in a player and he didn't see it in Dowell.
Young Kieran should make a nice little living kicking a ball. And we should be able to get a neat little profit on his sale and wish him luck.
19 Posted 11/11/2019 at 17:18:14
They dont say that. They say the proof of the pudding is in the eating, which doesnt apply.
20 Posted 11/11/2019 at 17:39:04
By the way, I looked him up not long ago, just out of curiosity. He's now with a club in Lithuania.
21 Posted 11/11/2019 at 18:08:20
I think the bottom line with Dowell is that he has ability in spades. He even has physicality. He's quite tall and broad. Yet, he doesn't use it. He still drifts out of games and is now drifting towards a career playing in Division One. After having high hopes for him, his career seems to be mirroring that of Luke Garbutt, in not being able to make it at a Championship club. Unlike Garbutt he isn't tied to long contract. Isn't he out of contract this summer?
22 Posted 11/11/2019 at 18:47:37
The lad hasnt got the desire to put himself out consistently.
I played with a lad when I was younger that had all the talent in the world to go right to the top but he used to turn up late for games and training and stroll through games.
Needless to say his ability far exceeded his ambition and I feel Dowell is the same.
23 Posted 11/11/2019 at 21:22:57
Hoping a change of environment and a different circle of friends might get him to see the light Stan Cullis manager of first division of Wolves signed him but he quickly fell back into bad habits. After Wolves he was snapped up by Bolton, also a first division side, but once again and for the same reasons it fell through.
It goes to show that talent without self-discipline is not enough.
In Kierans case we can only hope another good and well-thought-of prospect comes good.
25 Posted 11/11/2019 at 22:18:45
26 Posted 11/11/2019 at 22:25:20
I remember seeing one of his earlier games, think it was in Europe, and he had a wand of a left foot. I even thought, with a back four of Hibbert/Coleman-Distin-Jags-Baines and a midfield of Fellaini-Osman-Pienaar-Arteta along with Yakubu to return next to Cahill up top that he was the missing piece of the jigsaw once all the injuries cleared up.
We've had some wonderful players down the left over the years: Limpar, Pienaar, Sheedy, Hinchcliffe and now Bernard. Sad to say Bily didn't push on from a decent first season with us.
On to Dowell, he's at a crucial age for a midfielder now. Ross Barkley was scoring screamers away at Swansea when younger and Tom Davies has been making the first team for 3 years and is younger.
Someone needs to have a word, he needs to get in the gym and on the running track and increase his intensity. When players do that, they often find their natural skill and talent will allow them to exploit the chances that they drive towards.
It would be sad to see him not fulfil his potential.
27 Posted 11/11/2019 at 22:43:21
28 Posted 12/11/2019 at 08:56:41
Do you think he'd thrive in our set up? I don't, because Leicester play with pace and we're far more pedestrian. I suspect if he was at Goodison now then he'd be nowhere near that senior England side because our side\squad is unbalanced.
Re Dowell; what an opportunity this lad has with his talent, but something is lacking. I have no idea about his work ethic or commitment but if I were him, then I'd be first at training at last to go home.
29 Posted 12/11/2019 at 09:08:23
Although I doubt now that Dowell would have hit the heights of Maddison, if wed have shown a little faith at a crucial age then things might be totally different now.
30 Posted 12/11/2019 at 09:20:55
The difference is that Maddison is a much much better player. Sometimes we just have to accept that some players don't quite make the top grade. We don't need to always look for what the club did wrong.
Top players will rise to the top no matter what, IMO.
31 Posted 12/11/2019 at 09:35:39
Ive been giving Keiran ‘ Constructive criticism on ToffeeWeb since he first started playing in the youth team a few years ago, he hasnt changed his languid style one inch.
I criticised his style one time without mentioning his name, Harold Mathews was on to me right away, ‘Oh you must mean Dowell he posted immediately. I think heart and bottle come naturally.
I think a couple of years ago we could have asked a decent fee for Keiran, dont think we will get one now.
Come on Keiran, fans on here are telling you what a fantastic talent youve got, try, very hard, not to waste it,put the work in to go with your talent, youll be a very rich man by the time youre thirty, if you use your fuckin ears. Its your last chance.
32 Posted 12/11/2019 at 09:45:26
I was gutted when we didn't push through with our interest and make an offer for Maddison. Realistically it was never going to happen because Sigurdsson wasn't ever going to be dropped last season.
33 Posted 12/11/2019 at 09:55:16
He's on his third loan now and if anything they seem to be getting worse! His time at Forest was a success (at least initially) and it was at that time he was being compared with Maddison who was the other young goalscoring midfielder in the championship, though Maddison was more consistent and had better defensive stats which is why I was one of the people saying we should get him.
Since that point Maddison has gone upwards and sadly Dowell the other way. he started about 6 matches for Derby in August/September but failed to make an impression.
He's just turned 22 so certainly has alot of footballing years ahead of him but needs to find a club where he can establish himself and I think thats looking less and less likely to be at Everton.
34 Posted 12/11/2019 at 12:02:00
Although I rarely go there, Lyndon and Michael have those neat player profiles under the "Players" drop down at the top of the page. Google-guessed something like "Bily Everton left foot" and there it was from the 2012 season.
I don't wonder why a McGeady, Niasse, or Besic aren't good enough. They're plainly not. But a Bily, Mirallas, the Yak, Barkley too, there's this "You should be a better player than you are. Something's missing." And whatever that "Something" is, guys like Ossy, Pienaar, and Cahill, had it in spades.
[A picture of Cahill's head on Barkley's shoulders just came to mind. Can you imagine? Even a tough nut like Kompany might've taken a couple of gulps with THAT monster coming at him.]
Anyway, although his game didn't possess Kierans' silky smoothness, Bily was one of those players who made me wonder why he wasn't as good as his apparent skill. And I'm thinking the same with Kieran. Would love to be wrong, because the kid can be nice to watch.
But keeping with the theme of this thread, young Maddison doesn't appear to possess more skill than young Dowell. Yet, there's a huge gulf between the two. Remember that old show-biz saw, "I don't know what 'It", but he's got "It!" Maddison has "It". Kieran doesn't. Who knows why? So, this next Summer's continuing clear-out includes him.
And someone, ANYONE, please take fucking Besic.
35 Posted 12/11/2019 at 12:09:34
36 Posted 12/11/2019 at 13:08:37
The 'it' he possesses in abundance he has displayed at every level he has played at, be that with club or country.
He is an innate footballer with multiple skills that even many successful footballers lack.
He is extremely easy on the eye in possession of the ball. Beautifully balanced, fluid and languid in all he does, great vision and capable of picking out and playing passes others only dream about. He has a tremendous shot with either foot be it when running with a moving ball or a dead ball from a free kick, backed up by exquisite technique.
That's the good 'it'.
The bad 'it' is how he applies himself to the grimier side of football: digging in and helping the team in adversity. The harrying, the chasing and tackling back. The determination to leave a mark and make yourself undroppable.
That 'it' has just not happened for Kieran.
Given the loan opportunities he has had and the undoubted counselling he has received from countless trainers (it's absurd to believe this aspect of his game has never been discussed with the player) at the age he is now, not getting a game at Derby under a manager with very close bonds to Brands, doesn't augur well.
Some compare Kieran's languid style to that of Kevin Sheedy, which is a fair one. But the Irishman still had bottle in big games and big moments. Who can forget his goal celebration at the Kop end, aggressively giving them the 'V' and mouthing off some choice expletives? The twice taken free kick v Ipswich in opposite corners?
With his playing ability, Kieran Dowell should already be a regular for the 1st team. He's that good.
That he isn't is due to the absence of the other essential 'it'.
It saddens me to write that, effectively casting aspersions on his character. But sadly, that is the only conclusion I'm left with as to why his blindingly obvious football ability is yet to see him elevated to regular 1st team football wherever he has plied his trade.
I have no doubts he will continue to make a rewarding career for himself. But unless there is a serious, but VERY serious change of mindset it will not be at Everton or at the very highest levels of the game that he is well capable of playing at.
37 Posted 12/11/2019 at 22:17:03
I just don't understand why he wouldn't? Plus he's so young, he'd see the benefits quicker.
I'm an amateur marathon runner and I realised to get better PB's, I'd need to change things up. So I dropped some weight by no longer weight training, took up outdoor swimming to increase lung capacity and worked on different types of cadence to switch it up during running to prevent injury.
I know this is the reverse of what I am proposing Kieran does but look at Barkley. His upper body work sustained him as he could bounce players off him and keep the ball. When Bale emerged as a left winger, it was clear he'd been in the gym and practising 50 metre sprints, hence his "taxi for Maicon" moment.
He has the frame and the height to do it, unlike Leon Osman who was much in need of more pace and power but didn't have the body for it.
Many reports I've read are that Kieran fades in matches so a greater intensity in his prep would stop that. I think it is unforgiveable that professional athletes cannot last the 90 mins. Surely it is the bare minimum they should be able to deliver? (Adam Lallana anyone?)
Crying shame if Kieran misses the moment and enters the Youth Prodigies that didn't make it at Everton Hall of Infamy like Jose Baxter, Michael Branch and John Paul Kissock.
38 Posted 13/11/2019 at 01:34:50
39 Posted 13/11/2019 at 13:06:24
It would be a shame to waste such talent, as many fans have suggested. At the end of the day it is all down to Keiran Dowell himself, and that has been said many times before as well.
40 Posted 13/11/2019 at 14:32:23
41 Posted 13/11/2019 at 16:52:23
I hope weve not mismanaged Dowell out of a career. The likes of Lundstrum and Lingaard should provide inspiration that it can still be done in your early 20s.
42 Posted 13/11/2019 at 17:17:00
Forest and Sheff Utd fans echo your comments. Eg doesnt do enough bread and butter stuff between moments of skill. Id say there are three possible reasons, two of which are controllable.
1. Technique. Does he understand how to tackle, Mark, position himself when defending or playing deep? If not, thats something coaches can address in training.
2.Physique. Is he strong enough and fast enough? Maybe not. This is harder to address but can be mitigated with wright sessions and intelligent movement.
3. Desire. Is he up for it? I would challenge any skillful young player to watch Oxade of the RS. He is relentless. Never lets his head drop, works every blade of grass. His industry is like Gueye but he has skills too. Its all about his desire.
43 Posted 13/11/2019 at 17:33:17
Dowell lacks that ”look-at-me“ energy. Thats fine - it doesnt work for everyone - but whatever attitude Dowell is bringing to the training ground and onto the pitch is not pushing him forward. I agree with others above who are suggesting increased gym-time and fitness sessions; he needs to give himself more of an edge, find more of a competitive spirit. He already has the footballing ability, he needs to develop sharp elbows and a wily nature.
44 Posted 13/11/2019 at 20:43:45
Andrew. Spot on
I was another interested in Maddison. But hed never suit Everton. Because hes full of front and backs himself.
Evertonians I communicate with tend to prefer players who appear to give their all, even when their all is not good enough.
They like characters who ‘love the club. Who ‘get what it is to be an Evertonian. They like characters like Unsworth and Stubbsy.
Evertonian are afraid of good players with winning mentalities. Because inevitably they will want to leave our club. And a player cannot hurt you by leaving if he was never with you in the first place.
Evertonians booed Romelu Lukaku, when he played for our club AND was scoring 20+ goals a season.
Evertonians moaned and groaned at John Stones.
Evertonians currently deride Richarlison for his behaviour. And for crying out loud he is one of very few players with a winning mentality in our squad.
Dowell does not have the heart of a champion. A winning mentality. The ability to keep going when things are bad. The ability to drag a performance out of himself. He has absolutely none of his. Hell not have a career of any top level standing
45 Posted 14/11/2019 at 14:25:18
46 Posted 16/11/2019 at 09:52:32
Yes evertonians like players who give their all, so do the RS and City, it's why they are so good. They maximise everything a player has, skill, effort team spirit. Not like us. We either have players who are skillful and wont chase down, players who give their all but not skillful, players with no team spirit. By your comments then I guess you didn't like Cahill or arteta or Pienaar etc, players who weren't the most talented players but maximised what they had? From the sounds of it you just like the show ponies. Players who just like to do the pretty bits but not much else. Evertonians want players who maximise what they have. The fact that you endorse Richarlison which spends an awful lot if time rolling around and diving instead of staying on his feet and taking a goalscoring opportunity sums up his thin your argument is.
Evertonians want winners who will leave nothing on the field, we just haven't got any. Lukaku found how good his attitude was when he got his big move to United. He wasnt good enough. Dont agree with any of your comments and you insult every evertonian with them too.
47 Posted 16/11/2019 at 21:19:11
48 Posted 16/11/2019 at 21:19:11
50 Posted 29/11/2019 at 20:00:11
51 Posted 29/11/2019 at 20:09:15
52 Posted 04/12/2019 at 23:58:17
Why do we bother with them?? In these desperate times? Not one? Even as a - what other player do we have? What do we have to lose??
Bring back Jonjoe Kenny too.
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