Readers of ToffeeWeb will no doubt be aware that the club submitted its full and detailed Planning Application for the new stadium to Liverpool City Council on 24 December 2019. The People's Project website also posts the amended images and fly-through of the new stadium, reflecting the design changes since Summer 2019.
The Planning Application has the distinction of being the first to be recorded for 2020, having the reference number 20F/0001. Anyone who may wish to track its progress should use this reference when searching Liverpool City Council's website and the area dealing with current applications.
I viewed the relevant application pages last week and noted that, aside from a full description of the proposals and notification that the application has been validated, it has yet to be registered. Until that takes place, the application will not be the subject of formal consideration. Nor will arrangements be put in place for Public Consultation.
Similarly, notification of the application and an invitation for their comments will not be sent to all the relevant public authorities – frequently referred to as the statutory consultees. In layman's terms, all this means is that the clock will not start ticking on the process to determine the merits of the application until formal registration takes place.
I have had contact with the Case Officer for the application and much of what I note above reflects his advice. He has also indicated that they are hoping to make some arrangements with the club to enable members of the public to look at a paper copy of the application. Particularly useful if you want to pour over the architect's plans. Details of where and when will probably pop up on the Council's website, if not also at the People's Project site (my assumption).
I am aiming to keep track of the progress of the application and will post further notes on ToffeeWeb as and when there is more to report. Readers should in particular note that the formal process of public consultation on the application will afford the opportunity to submit comments to the Council expressing your whole-hearted support for the scheme. Every little helps!
Reader Comments (40)
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1 Posted 10/02/2020 at 21:47:45
Seems kinda weird that it would just sit there for 5 or 6 weeks, when time is of the essence and there's all that great work to be done on the Goodison Legacy...
Why do you think it has not even been registered yet? Or is this just more fuel for the itinerant naysayers hiding amongst our number?
2 Posted 10/02/2020 at 22:25:33
Those who “know” it aint going to happen will no doubt give this all a pass.
3 Posted 10/02/2020 at 22:36:04
4 Posted 10/02/2020 at 22:47:42
I know nothing of the process for such a project and wonder if it is the Club's responsibility to register the application - anybody know?
5 Posted 11/02/2020 at 00:03:45
EFC: “Yes, well submit it by the end of the year?”
Us: “Definitely by the end of the year?”
EFC: “Yes, definitely.”
Us: “Hey! Why havent you submitted it?”
EFC: “Well weve submitted it but we havent, yknow, submitted it.”
6 Posted 11/02/2020 at 00:33:35
Bill offered to pay in Panto tickets and finally left the Council offices saying Fortress Sports Fund or NTL would be paying the fee tomorrow.
7 Posted 11/02/2020 at 01:02:18
But once registered, as Alasdair says, the clock is ticking and PP, or rejection will, in the fullness of time pop out the other end like a peice of toast.
I think not registering is about getting all the financial ducks in a row.
Joe @ 5; going further with your dialogue...
EFC: "No, erm, wait, bit harsh that, we have submitted it, look" *does Chamberlin thing with piece of paper*
Us: *snatches* "gis a look"...*reads*
...'We are in receipt of your Planning Application, Ref: 20F/0001, please quote this Ref in all future correspondence.'
Us: "hmm" *reads further*
...'However, no assessment of your application can take place until it has been Formally Registered and all fees paid...see table of fees below...'
8 Posted 11/02/2020 at 01:28:55
But then I know FA about the planning application process so could be way off.
9 Posted 11/02/2020 at 03:37:48
10 Posted 11/02/2020 at 08:52:18
While we're on the subject of BMD, I was speaking to someone before the game on Saturday, who works down on the docks and will be working on BMD once planning application is approved. He told me the amount of work outside of BMD is progressing well, infrastructure etc. He also told me to fill in BMD alone will take over six months. Basically he said they are just waiting for planning permission and then they're going in!! While the dock is being filled in other work around the dock will be on the go.
11 Posted 11/02/2020 at 09:31:16
Nice to have feedback on how the application is progressing, thanks for supplying the application number now anybody who wants can track the application. I admit I am excited about the project as well as being mindful of Wengers comments about the Emirates lacking the soul that Highbury had.
I read some months ago that they plan to fill the dock with sand so in the future if people wanted to resurrect it back as a dock it would be easy to do so if its filled with sand. These big projects always seem to have a habit of over running the predicted opening date, lets hope it doesnt happen with this project.
12 Posted 11/02/2020 at 10:04:48
13 Posted 11/02/2020 at 12:22:17
14 Posted 11/02/2020 at 13:16:20
Once an application has been received it must be both validated and then placed on the register before it is determined. This is a major and complex application. In a recent briefing on the Peoples Project web site Ian Jenkinson from CBRE, Planning Consultants for the project advised that the application was accompanied by 50 technical documents covering 30 specific areas. So the authority have to be sure, despite extensive pre-application discussions that all is in order before they can start the process of determination and consultation.
Once registered the application could take up to 16 and possibly 26 weeks before a decision is issued; i.e up to 6 months. The latter timescale will arise if the City ask for an extension of time for determination but cannot agree with Everton on that matter. The Government have a Planning Guarantee which tries to ensure that even major schemes are determined within 6 months or 1 year should the matter go to appeal.
This application will have attracted a hefty Planning Fee which has to be paid prior to the determination period commencing.
As to the "parallel" scheme to redevelop Goodison Park the Peoples Project web site notes that the plans for this have still to be settled so the BMD application will be determined independent of this proposal.
Hope the above, whilst quite dry, addresses the points raised. If not post me further questions by all means.
15 Posted 11/02/2020 at 13:51:29
16 Posted 11/02/2020 at 15:27:53
17 Posted 11/02/2020 at 16:35:12
My understanding was that the club had been working in parallel with the club since day one, so why the need for a separate registration on a project that all parties should already be fully familiar with?
18 Posted 11/02/2020 at 16:45:14
Should this application be successful then I see no reason why large sections of BMD couldnt be rail seats, which would mean we can have our 60,000 seater ground after all.
19 Posted 11/02/2020 at 17:59:10
In any event the possibility of standing getting the capacity up to 60,000 seems fanciful. It would require the removal of at least 8,000 seats compared to as currently planned, even on the most optimistic expectations of what the permitted seat to standing ratio might be.
20 Posted 11/02/2020 at 18:19:25
Two things. One solution to the first problem you raise is to have any seated section in front of the rail seating as opposed to behind it. Viewing problem solved.
Secondly if the capacity was to be increased to 60k by the introduction of "safe standing" only 5,333 seats would have to removed as the ratio of safe standing to seats is 1.5/1.
21 Posted 11/02/2020 at 18:34:10
If you removed 5333 seats and replaced them with 8000 safe standing spaces, you would only gain the difference in the overall capacity (52000-5333+8000), so would end up with 54667.
To gain an extra 8000 capacity, you would remove 16000 seats to replace them with 24000 safe standing spaces, being left with 36000 seats and 24000 safe standing spaces.
22 Posted 11/02/2020 at 18:34:50
Dortmund's yellow wall actually works on a 2/1.
23 Posted 11/02/2020 at 18:44:04
24 Posted 11/02/2020 at 18:53:38
Everton do have contingency plans though for a 10k increase in capacity by introducing safe standing.
25 Posted 11/02/2020 at 19:36:54
My question would be whether, in this day and age, when several new generations will never have experienced standing and when all others will have become used to the relative luxury of seating, there would ever be the demand for 24,000 safe standing spaces. I'm not even sure that there would be the 21,000 wishing to stand and fill the home end.
26 Posted 11/02/2020 at 19:38:32
For staff at the Council this is not the usual planning application, reflected in the number of separate documents that have been submitted to cover the main aspects of the project, involving thousands of pages.
If LCC work in the same way as other councils, then the first thing they will do is scan every page submitted prior to being sent to each agency/relevant Councillor. An initial decision is due 16 weeks from the date of submission.
27 Posted 11/02/2020 at 19:46:23
28 Posted 11/02/2020 at 19:49:09
Now don't ask me what percentage of seats would have to be replaced to achieve the 60,000, but that is what I believe was said during the consultation.
29 Posted 11/02/2020 at 21:04:17
If the ratio is 1.5 to 1 it means there will be fewer seats than at Goodison, 52,000 - 16,000 leaves 36,000. I can't recall seeing any numbers but surely they must be planning on 2:1, that would remove 8,000 seats, leaving 44,000 seats, and 16,000 standing
30 Posted 11/02/2020 at 21:26:59
31 Posted 11/02/2020 at 21:38:38
32 Posted 11/02/2020 at 22:06:34
The whole idea came about after Hillsborough as part of the narrative that the disaster was caused by out-of-control football hooligans who just needed the civilising influence of compulsory seating, which I suppose was a step up from being charged for the pleasure being treated like caged animals.
However, regardless of opinion either way, the reality is that people do stand at football matches in stadiums which are not designed for safe standing – arguably they never were. The various rail-seating options resolve the issue safely and should also reduce the scope for conflict between those who prefer to sit being stuck behind those who prefer to stand.
The change can't come quickly enough, imo.
33 Posted 11/02/2020 at 22:17:35
34 Posted 11/02/2020 at 22:19:36
35 Posted 12/02/2020 at 09:04:56
36 Posted 12/02/2020 at 09:08:32
I remember having to push back off the barrier when the surge came when a goal was scored. I do have fond memories of this with Everton beating Spurs at White Hart Lane on their way to the title.
I used to use the away supporters' end at neutral games to get more room. I got a lot of abuse as a result at some games. I once ended up with a girder at my back as the Chelsea shed, after a morning game, decided to take in another game on the first day of the season, and attacked the stewards and police, with me in their path.
The away end can be the arsehole of nowhere at some grounds, may need to stand to get a view. Clearly if it is true that our away fans are standing anyway, this is an area that needs to be looked at.
The new stadium needs a 60, 000 capacity, that's for sure.
37 Posted 12/02/2020 at 20:47:31
Unfortunately for them, it will be built.
38 Posted 12/02/2020 at 23:32:26
As people have already mentioned, we don't know what the demand is for safe standing but, if I was making those sorts of decisions, I would be putting those standing areas at the bottom of the blue wall stand, nearest to the pitch, and depending on demand hopefully and eventually filling that whole stand front to back with safe standing.
39 Posted 14/02/2020 at 15:49:06
People stand in seated areas now which is not ideal. Putting in safe standing has to be the way forward for me.
Has anyone been in the top balcony? Now there's one area I could never jump up after a goal.
43 Posted 20/02/2020 at 10:05:52
I know a hotel is being built over the road but I'm surprised we haven't thought of something like that.
It would give us another stream of revenue.
Gone in to either building our own bars and restaurants or gone into partnership with more established companies. Gyms, fitness centres etc, something that would give us a steady stream of income.
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