Accepting mediocrity

by   |   15/09/2019  91 Comments  [Jump to last]

Over the last few weeks, I have railed against Evertonians who have accused others of accepting mediocrity. We all accept it because we have no choice. What can I do as an Evertonian to demonstrate my disdain for that utterly abject show today?

At the last Toffeeweb get together, the admirable Keith Berry asked everyone present if they thought that Marco Silva was the man to take our club forward. All, including m, thought he was with only one man expressing doubts. I won't name the dissenter but, Dave Abrahams, you were right.

There is not, in my view, the slightest sign that there is a project that is gradually unfolding. We have a team that is utterly spineless. A group that will never, ever come back from two goals down.

They are a reflection of the coach: nice guys who can accept losing without being hurt to the heart by it, unlike us. We, who have our week ruined by the abject failure of Marco and his team.

The coach has been described as someone who can work with and improve players. Can anyone name one player who has got better under this coach? We have had an easy start and we have been dreadful. Not unlucky, just poor. Losing to Aston Villa, Bournemouth and drawing at Crystal Palace is just inept.

To me, it is time to bite the bullet. I, unfortunately, am compelled to accept mediocrity; Mr Moshiri is not. It is time for him to act. Marco Silva is not fit to be our coach. He is stubborn, intractable, feeble and utterly uninspiring. If I was a player looking to the touchline, I would see only bewilderment. Moshiri must act. Sack him.

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David France
1 Posted 16/09/2019 at 05:44:20
My wife described our recent performance perfectly — Silva and the Spineless Crustaceans...
John Keating
2 Posted 16/09/2019 at 05:54:41

Like many, I feel your anger and frustration. I admit I was never sold on Silva's appointment and, regardless of his first horrendous preseason and early season results, reluctantly thought he should be given a chance.

I said we should reassess his position after 10 games of this season. After seeing the fixture list pre-season, I thought we would be well up there and on a roll after the first 10 games.

Unfortunately, nothing looks to have changed. Another crap pre-season and rubbish start to the season.

Unlike many, I find no excuse with players away on international duty – that applies to most clubs. No doubt the few “we are in transition” merchants will be out and about. Sorry, that won't wash. It's now Silva's team and still his questionable tactics. We still have the same problems we had last pre-season.

As you say, it's difficult to see who and what he has improved. We still appear to have no Plan B, are easy to play against, and devoid of any fight.

I don't want a Klopp- type running up and down the line but a bit of emotion and the balls to drop players not performing might help.

Alan J Thompson
3 Posted 16/09/2019 at 07:29:54
Some years ago on Teamtalk I responded to a poster that his assertion that Everton should aim to finish 10th was the acceptance of mediocrity and we should aim to win the League as aiming for 10th and just missing put you in a relegation fight whereas aiming to win it and just missing qualified you for European competition, I then had to correct his spelling of 'mediocre'.

Since then, we've missed out on the Arab money that has put Man City in the position they are and it is my opinion that they wouldn't accept, as Mr Moshiri has, that Kenwright be allowed to stay on as Chairman.

I don't think he has the same influence on transfers and team selection that he may have had with Walter Smith and David Moyes but I most certainly blame him for the sale and recall of Wayne Rooney which, in both circumstances, showed a complete lack of credible imagination. It might be a start if Mr Kenwright was relegated to the position of season ticket holder only. Having said that I have also some qualms about a Chairman who might not be able to attend all games possibly due to his tax status.

The appointments of managers since Mr Moshiri's involvement seems to me partly, in the case of Koeman, down to the possibilities raised as replacements to Wenger at Arsenal and Allardyce as a moment of panic. I've thought the appointment of Silva as part of the trend of looking for managers who have had some success overseas but his record with Hull and Watford would have precluded him for me and I've seen little to make me think he has the imagination of doing other than follow the plans that have brought success to others.

Moves have been made to improve things behind the scenes and more money than we've had before has been made available for transfers but I worry that, every time managers are changed, there has to be a complete reshuffle of the playing staff, and at great expense.

So, rather than looking for another manager (certainly not Mourinho), then perhaps we look at changing the format and have the manager's assistant appointed by the Board, from a shortlist recommended by Mr Brands, something possibly similar to Clough and Taylor or even in a coaching advisory capacity say, Wenger. A can of worms? Possibly, but we do seem to need an injection of imagination and efficiency that is relayed to those on the pitch.

Fran Mitchell
4 Posted 16/09/2019 at 07:44:44
The way he slumped into the dugout when things started going wrong showed just how feeble he is. He was neither discussing with his assistant and coaches, nor giving orders to his players, he just slumped and looked at his feet. Pathetic and should be sacked for dereliction of duty.

His tactics are predicable, he doesn't know how to attack, nor how to set up a defence. The players looked lost and without ideas.

Walcott on at 10 mins just brought general laughter in the pub that I watched, and yet it was so predictable.

Maybe with Silva, like last season, we will eventually get a run of 5-6 wins together and end up 9-7th. But we will never actually improve.

Marcelino did well at Valencia and is available. I'd give him an 18 month contract.

Trevor Peers
5 Posted 16/09/2019 at 08:40:31
Silva virtually threw the towel in on Sunday, sitting down in utter dejection in the dug out, his eyes glazed over he looked a beaten man. He reverted back to his safety-first football after previously getting two decent results, if we had stuck to the same team we played against Wolves we might of been beaten anyway, but at least we would've gone down fighting.

Playing Calvert-Lewin up front in that system virtually guarantees a defeat, it's very predictable and easy to play against. Every manager in the Premier League has sussed out Silva's tactics. Surely 4-4-2 would bring better results. The fact that Dominic scored with a decent header ensures Silva's downfall as he will stick with that system for the foreseeable future.

Tony Marsh
6 Posted 16/09/2019 at 08:44:53
Everything about EFC is mediocre and has been this way since Kenwright took control. When it comes to charitable acts, romantic notions and jobs for the boys, we are number one. When it comes to sticking with the wrong manager, we have No equal. It is quite obvious Marco Silva is as clueless as Bobby Martinez and Ronald Koeman. Stats don't lie.

At Which other top club would Silva last this long? Which other so called elite club which we aspire to be put up with this nonesense?

The CEO is as clueless as Moshiri and the manager. Yesterday was as pathetic as it comes yet a win at the weekend and it will be as you were Everton are back.

Seamus Coleman is now way past his sell by-date due to injury yet plays every game. Some of our fans still think the old Seamus will be back. He won't. Under whelming players like Calvert-Lewin, Schniderlin, Sigurdson still in the side. Silva falling into the same pattern of errors that was perpetuated by David Moyes and has continued with every manager since. It appears the lethargic, passive losing mentality is ingrained in our DNA.

Getting rid of Silva is now a must. This is not knee-jerk as we were awful last season until there was nothing to play for and other clubs had other issues to contend with.

Before the season started, I had 5 clubs in a mini-league for 4th spot which I believe is wide open. I convinced myself we were in the mix as we had no Europa to impede us. How foolish was I? Midtable again as we know Silva is safe for a few years as long as we stay up. It's mediocre alright!!!

Kunal Desai
7 Posted 16/09/2019 at 08:54:26
Everton fans never removed Kenwright and even though he is still at the club in some capacity, he dictated when he was to make changes at the club, when really it should have been the fans forcing his hand all those years ago. To me, not wanting to enforce change from the fanbase tells you everything.

Over three years on, we have Moshiri who has hired dross in Koeman, Allardyce and Silva. Nothing has changed in the running of this club other than Kenwright pulling off a blinder and bringing another puppet master.

Colin Glassar
8 Posted 16/09/2019 at 08:59:03
I defended Martinez almost to the last. I was wrong.

I never warmed to Koeman but I thought his steely-eyed demeanour would whip his expensive squad into a force to be reckoned with. I was wrong.

I cringed at the thought of Big Sam being our manager and prayed it would only be temporary. I was right.

So, when Marco was appointed, I decided to be neutral and let's see if the man who was successful in Portugal and Greece could do the same here.

After a season, and a bit, I just don't see anything there. I may be wrong but we have no pattern, no defined personality, no passion. Every game we look and play differently. He chops and changes constantly (except for favourites Coleman and Sigurdsson), no partnerships are allowed to develop. We play like a bunch of strangers while other teams have an almost telepathic connection.

Watching Everton is grim fare for me. We are not exciting. We are neither expansive or defensive. We are a nothing team that stumbles from game to game without direction or leadership.

It's sad to see so much money (that we haven't had for yonks) go to waste.

Michael Lynch
9 Posted 16/09/2019 at 09:18:56
Apart from the last 15 minutes against Wolves this season, and the "big games" at Goodison at the back end of last season (particularly versus The Shite), when have we witnessed an Everton team really going for it, smothering their opponents, being first to every ball, snapping into every tackle, moving the ball with real purpose, winning it back after every mistake?

The statistics show us top of the Premier League table for pressing, but we press like pussy cats not lions. We're ponderous in possession and error-prone at the back due to lack of concentration and lack of mobility. Our players, on paper, are good enough to do better than this. Our mediocrity comes from the top down. Koeman didn't really give a shit, Allardyce was limited and clearly temporary, Silva...? Perhaps Silva just doesn't have the ability to produce a consistent, successful team at this level? But if not Silva, then who?

And at what point do we start questioning Brands? His signings look good on paper, but don't seem to have translated into a winning team.

Dave Abrahams
10 Posted 16/09/2019 at 09:24:15
David (1), I wish Elizabeth was a young lady again and on Everton's board, she would certainly shake this club up, not to mention her football knowledge, mind you that might be too much for most members of the present board.

I hope you are both keeping well, although watching Everton this season would dampen the spirits of a saint.

Watching Silva in the dug out yesterday feeling sorry for himself, by the look of him, he should have taken a good long look at the Everton supporters in the ground, he'd have felt and smelt their despair, having to put up with that mostly half-hearted and guileless display.

Only Delph, not brilliant but playing like he at least wanted to win, showed the fight and spirit that is desperately missing at all levels of the club, and it doesn't look like it is going to get better any time soon.

Sorry at the U18's level it doesn't look too bad with that 10-0 win on Saturday.

Joe McMahon
11 Posted 16/09/2019 at 09:33:26
A kick up the arse is needed, please give Mourinho what he wants. It would give us presence and he has been the only success Man Utd have had since SAF left.
Tony Everan
12 Posted 16/09/2019 at 10:16:07
David #1,

My wife came into the room briefly when the third goal went in.

She said 'I don't know anything about football but what were your defenders doing there?'

She said what does ''Bou'' stand for in the corner of the screen?

I said 'Bournemouth'

She just started laughing.

Sam Hoare
13 Posted 16/09/2019 at 10:43:49
We could remove Silva. He's done little to secure himself this season. But would it help?

How many years back do you have to go to find a manager that posters on TW actually liked? Allardyce – no. Unsworth – no. Koeman – no. Martinez – no. Moyes – no (a bit more divided on this one but plenty on here loathe him). Smith –no.

Maybe you have to go all the way back to Joe Royle? And even then, Silva has a higher win percentage than him currently!

Changing manager has not really helped things much over the last 25 years so I'm not totally convinced it will have the desired effect this time round. Most of the top teams in the last decade have improved under a stable regime. Wenger, Ferguson, Guardiola, Klopp, Pochetinno. The important thing for me is whether the players still buy into the manager's ideas and approach, I get the feeling that the Everton players still believe in Silva.

I'm not convinced that he can turn the corner. But I'm definitely not convinced that a new manager would solve all our woes. Personally I'd give him till Xmas and if we are in 10th-15th and still conceding soft goals and sticking rigidly to the 4-2-3-1 then it may be time to move on. I still retain hope that we might see more of his favoured 4-3-3 and that, if we cut out the soft goals and convert a few more chances, we will be able to add some away wins to our very strong home form.

Brian Harrison
14 Posted 16/09/2019 at 12:15:39
Only this club could spend hundreds of millions to stay mediocre, I am sure that Farhad Moshiri must be wishing he had never heard of Everton. He has backed all his managers with money yet all the same frailties still exist. From Xmas onwards it looked like Silva had put all those defensive frailties to bed, but this season they are back and worse than before. We have the current Colombia centre back paired with the current England centre back, yet they look like young defenders making childlike mistakes. We have spent a fortune on forwards yet look bereft of goals.

We have had one of the easiest starts to a season I can recall yet despite the easy start we sit in mid-table. Our away form is truly appalling, we have scored 1 away goal so far against 3 of the poorest sides in the league, heaven help us when we meet real quality away from home.

We have conceded 2 goals to Villa, 3 goals to Bournemouth, 2 goals to Wolves and not forgetting with virtually a full team 2 against Lincoln.

While our neighbours win the Champions League and possibly soon to lift the Premier League. Reminds me a lot of the 1970s when they dominated British Football and we as usual languished in mediocrity. And whether we like it or not its always harder when your neighbours are winning everything.

The answer to the problem, well there are many and varied suggestions put forward. Usually the first and easiest is sack the manager, but since Kendall's first stint we have sacked managers on a regular basis but results stay the same. The problem we have is although Moshiri has poured in millions we still don't have the pedigree to attract top foreign managers. They will only come to the top established teams who have a track record, which sadly we haven't had for 30 years. That's also the reason despite having the money why we cant attract top players, so we end up paying well over the odds for very ordinary players. When we do produce a quality player or bring in a player who does very well, they are snatched away by one of the top sides.

We as fans are craving to see the good old days return, when we had a team the envy of others. When we sign anyone who shows glimpses of talent we go into raptures and are optimism is fired up again. Only for that optimism to be extinguished as quickly as it arrived.

I only wish I knew the answer to how to change things around, to long have our loyal supporters been let down. As I said in a post yesterday, for our fans who go to every away game I salute you, I don't go to away games anymore, but my frustration is nothing compared to what these fans have to endure.

Graeme Beresford
16 Posted 16/09/2019 at 12:57:47
It's a harsh reality and one which we as Evertonians fail to accept. We just aren't good enough. And for all of our ‘Brands is our saviour' was have yet again failed to land a centre back and a clinical striker. The difference between being top 4 and top 10 are them positions:

Liverpool: Salah, Firmino, Mane, Van Dijk
Man City: Laporte, Kompany (last season obviously) Aguero
Arsenal: Aubameyang, Lacazette, no good centre backs, hence why they leak goals
Spurs: Kane, Son, Alderweireld, Sanchez
Man Utd: Maguire, Rashford, Martial

Everton have: Mina, Keane, Calvert-Lewin and Kean

They just haven't performed so far this season and the problem is, Mina, switches off too easily when Zouma didn't for us. And Calvert-Lewin or Kean aren't the answer. It's just painful to watch us have one of the easiest runs to a Premier League season and not be where we should be, which in my opinion right now should be second.

Palace away: Win
Watford home: win
Villa away: Win
Wolves home: Win
Bournemouth away: Win

We should be beating every single one of them teams yet our failure to do what is needed in the transfer market again leaves us till Xmas to sort it and we all know what that window is like. A nightmare. So what's going to happen at the end of next season is: Pickford is going to go, Richarlison is going to go, Gomes and Digne will probably go but it's okay, we will sign 3 or 4 players and we will say we are in transition. Absolute mess of a club. Sick of being a loser. Sick and tired of it.

Peter Roberts
17 Posted 16/09/2019 at 13:10:17
I wanted Silva in. I got a bit unsettled and doubted him a bit last season when we had those defeats around Christmas and New year but I was prepared to give him time and thought my patience had been rewarded...

Forget all that. That performance and his body language at the weekend was unacceptable. Sackable — and the players involved should be deeply ashamed.

Our club needs a manager with a personality and drive and I know how that scares the crap out of players who are just turning up for a kick about. They should be scared to play like that for an Everton manager; instead, it was just polite handshakes at the final whistle, having spent the last 20 minutes jogging about when they should have been peppering Bournemouth and making them fear an onslaught.

Big changes required – big, big changes.

David Smith
18 Posted 16/09/2019 at 13:32:08
Rob Hooton
19 Posted 16/09/2019 at 13:37:32
That performance was woeful but not unexpected, I don't really know why anybody bothers with away games any more as, for quite some years now, we have one of the worst away records in the league. Bournemouth have won more away games than us since being promoted!

We would be better off playing 11 pissed-up passionate fans...

Silva's body language was despicable and showed a beaten man with no heart or fight, which was then reflected by those on the pitch.

I'm fed up with this season and the Premier League already, duly switching off.

Eddie Dunn
20 Posted 16/09/2019 at 14:01:12
I was sick of Silva last season but the team then rallied and the defence tightened-up and we beat Chelsea, Arsenal and Man Utd. He earned a reprieve but this preseason and the campaign to date displays many of the same problems as the start to last season.

The club (not perhaps Silv's fault) have not only failed to replace Lukaku but have failed to land/replace Zouma. Despite Brand's plaudits, we remain short in both these departments. The loss of Gueye was always going to be a big problem but Delph looks fine.

There are the new boys to bed -in and Iwobi looks a good addition but Kean is going to need a season to get used to this league. Ironically, Callum Wilson looked light years ahead of Domenic or Kean.

I would be more flexible and play 4-4-2 bringing Tosun into a partnership. Silva's intransigence and natural conservative approach reflects the attitude of the whole club. There is not enough pressure on the manager or the players. 8th is considered par for the course and Moshiri is happy that his investment is in the top half of the Premier League. Only impending doom saw us panic into Sam's appointment.

There is a reluctance to rock the boat if we remain mid-table. We have players like Walcott and Schniederlin who are treading water, and know their best is behind them. We have Seamus on the wane and then we have Digne, who will be on his way within a year.

The squad is full of average players and the coach couldn't inspire an erection at a Viagra factory. They won't sack him though.

Steve Ferns
21 Posted 16/09/2019 at 14:26:45
Andy that's simply ridiculous.

As for who has got better:
Gueye left playing the best football of his career;
Pickford – but that's the goalkeeping coach;
Keane might be having a tough time but he came on loads last season;
Zouma – struggling with Silva, back to his worst;
Digne was playing the best football of his career;
Schneiderlin has recovered to the levels he first exhibited when he arrived;
Sigurdsson – scored a career high number of goals;
Richarlison – in the form of his life, and thanking Silva every chance he gets;
Calvert-Lewin – developing slowly but posting his best statistical season;
Gomes – arrived a shell of the man he was and rediscovered his ability.

I would turn it around and say who hasn't Silva improved? Players like Walcott and others who lack the desire and perhaps their talent is on the wane.

Jeff Spiers
22 Posted 16/09/2019 at 14:26:50
I firmly believe the mindset at the club is deeply rooted. Just keep us in the Premier League. Seriously, what manager on this planet could shake life back into it? What manager would want the job???
Rory Grant
23 Posted 16/09/2019 at 14:33:04
There is no drama here. It was a good try, but quite early on became evident that Silva has no skills nor talent to take us anywhere better. If the owners are serious about success then change is needed. If not... well then.

Lots of failed managers were named but all share one common thing: none had any proven track record as a successful manager on the absolute top-level. We have tried to cheapskate on the managers by underestimating the position itself. Now, when we could actually afford a marquee name, we seemingly carry on with it.

Obviously we can't make everyone interested but money talks. Let's get real.

John Keating
24 Posted 16/09/2019 at 14:49:18
Rob 19,

Brilliant! Spot on too. We really would be better off playing 11 pissed up passionate fans. Without doubt! Laughed my arse off there! Nice one...

We'll get all the so-called experts on here telling us what a great coach he is How he has improved players etc etc etc etc. Thing is we are actually no better than years ago.

Regardless of what we are informed we will finish no better than seasons ago. The excuses have to end, the “in transition” apologists have to be excused. We have massive problems and maybe someone who is not into “the modern coaching” methods has to step in and sort these wasters out .

John Pierce
25 Posted 16/09/2019 at 14:51:55
Andy, fair dos mate for putting your cards on the table. I did as much on the match reaction thread.

My issue lies in the problems we have are repeated time and memorial under Silva. For a coach much vaunted as a guy for detail, his team his extremely sloppy. His own performance through a game is often lamentable.

A reactive coach if ever there was one. The panic and disarray of his substitutions after we go a goal or two goals down is palpable. When in reality the change should come when we are on top but not penetrating. Yesterday was another in a litany of examples.

He continues to play a system which worked because of one player, Gana, is futile.

His persistence with players who are out of form is baffling. He'd do himself far more favors by dropping them even for lesser lights the onus then is no the players not him. He's in a very big hole, the cup game against Sheffield Wednesday is now a very big deal.

Dave Abrahams
26 Posted 16/09/2019 at 14:54:34
Steve (21), I beg to differ on a few of those players, in my opinion:

Keane is playing now as he has always played for Everton, riddled with mistakes which he has always been prone to.
Schneiderlin is still doing as little as possible, still doing his passes backwards and sideways, he poisons the midfield and a couple of other places, more life in a nit nurse's comb.
Sigurdsson, I didn't see the Wolves game, in the other games he is having a very poor season, was non-existent yesterday.
Richarlison, in the form of his life? Not for Everton this season apart from the Wolves game apparently.
Gomes, his form is still up and down.

One of the good things that has happened has occurred in Germany where it looks like Jonjoe Kenny is having a very good spell with the team he went on loan to in the summer. He'd have a hard time improving his game playing in this defence, that's if he even got a game under Silva.

I realise we all see players in a different way but that's my take on Everton this season; plenty of room for improvement by the players and the coaches who train them.

John Keating
27 Posted 16/09/2019 at 15:00:18
John @25,

Good post. I agree that someone who apparently adheres to details fails so miserably.

I pissed off to Dubai and Thailand for the international break so only watched the game on tv with other exiles who were equally embarrassed.

Home for the Sheffield game but thinking of extending!!!!!

Eddie Dunn
28 Posted 16/09/2019 at 15:04:09
Steve, before Gueye left, he was playing for a move to PSG.

Keane is just as good/bad as he was at Burnley and remember he improved last season after his horrible ankle wound had healed.
Zouma had got a good understanding with Digne and Keane and is struggling in a new-look Chelsea defence.
Schniederlin still is not as good as when he played for Southampton.
Gomes is playing poorly after a good second half of last season, he is grumpy and off his game.
Sigurdsson may well look good statistically but he hasn't struck a decent free kick in ages and looks off the pace and was subbed at Bournemouth.
Richarlison granted, is improving, and perhaps Calvert-Lewin is too.

But what about Silva's demeanor, his pathetic interviews, his poor tactics and late subs?

John Keating
29 Posted 16/09/2019 at 15:13:41
Steve @21, apologies mate, but have to agree with Dave.

Silva has been here over a season and we are still seeing the same mistakes by the same players playing the same systems.

I know you like the guy and have no doubt he is personably really nice but in the season and more he had been here we really have seen no appreciable change.

Tactically he is a disaster so far. Looks good — but so does my shitzu.

Ken Kneale
30 Posted 16/09/2019 at 15:17:36

Your comments are nearly always worth reading and reflecting upon to help form a balanced opinion but any reasonable Judge and Jury would say your thoughts above are not reflective of either the results on the pitch or importantly and what most of us see, the whole setup up of the team, the attitude and desire of the players and the body language of the manager.

The whole lot are inextricably linked to Mr Silva and sadly, he is not proving up to the mark. Get rid now before this season turns into a nightmare and get someone in who can set up a defence and wants to play attaching football with speed and fluency. Marco Silva has shown in countless games now he is not that man – he may well be a reasonable number two somewhere trying to coach and improve players but he is not the man to lead Everton back where they belong.

I think most of us would accept defeat on the basis of the team trying, but defeat after negative football and seemingly zero effort on the pitch and the touchline is hard to take.

Kieran Kinsella
31 Posted 16/09/2019 at 15:35:17
Steve Ferns

I think you're clutching at straws. Keane was better before he came to Everton than he is now. His form slumped at Everton, then recovered last season. He is still prone to mistakes and in poor form currently. So at best, under Silva he has at times been back to square one, eg, where he was under Sean Dyche.

Sigurdsson's career high goals doesn't say much given he was happy to spend his prime years in a relegation-threatened team. You'd expect more from him when he is surrounded by better players.

Calvert-Lewin is older and gaining experience but I haven't seen any exponential improvement in him since his season under Koeman. At best he has stayed about the same level particularly regarding his prime objective: scoring goals.

Kieran Kinsella
32 Posted 16/09/2019 at 15:39:40
This team reminds me a lot of our team in the early 90s. Beagrie, Ward, Nevin etc. Some flair, some lovely football but no strength of character or consistency.

It is a concern that Schneiderlin, Keane, and Gomes have all spoken about their struggles with depression during down spells. It's a stressful profession and I am not trying to criticize them for their issues but surely we can provide them with some help?

At the minute, any time things start going wrong, they all three just seem to fall to pieces. Then you have the likes of Sigurdsson who seems content to get a bit of kudos for the occasional goal. If he was ambitious, or a winner, why did he spend his best years as the occasional "star" at a mediocre Swansea team.

Coleman has been good for us but is no longer so and he seems to take the hump whenever he is criticized. Again, not a good thing. Overall, we just have a mentally weak group of players who cannot seem to handle the Premier League.

Jerome Shields
33 Posted 16/09/2019 at 15:42:07
In my opinion, the problems Everton have are deeper than the Manager and players. The training and coaching isn't good enough. What you got against Aston Villa and now Bournemouth was a badly prepared and unfit team.

Changing the Manager is not going to make any difference. It is the culture within Everton that is providing the lack of motivation and poor attitude that pervades the team. I know that Silva & Brands are in charge, but this culture has maintained itself throughout the tenure of various managers and a previous Director of Football.

Managers have come and gone, but performances like that against Bournemouth, have been with us for years.

Finch Farm needs a total clean out, with the hierarchy that maintains it getting the same treatment.

A good squad of players had been assembled by Brands, given the limitations, and Silva as manager is as good as Everton is going to get. I remind you that Silva was the applicant for the job.

Silva has improved players as Steve @21 has detailed and the system of play is good, when the players are fully fit and motivated with the right attitude.

Silva will see out his contract; hopefully Moshiri has the gumption to realise that changes have to be made a Board Level and throughout the off-field Management, particularly the backroom staff, of Everton FC. They are not fit for purpose.

I am not accepting mediocrity, but being realistic about the situation. I write this post as I wait for a plane to go on holiday and I am as despondent as any of you. To be a Everton Supporter is to suffer.

Danny Broderick
34 Posted 16/09/2019 at 15:48:18
This is a joke of a post. I used to think that Everton fans weren’t fickle, but that has been well and truly exposed in the last few years. Maybe we can have an annual ‘sack the manager’ day. Every year it seems to get earlier and earlier.

Every time we lose, the toys get thrown out of the pram by more and more people, it seems. Only utopia is acceptable.

We are 5 games into the Premier League season for God’s sake!! We have new players who are still house hunting for crying out loud!! Sort yourselves out!!

We’ve had an indifferent start, not a bad start. Have some faith for goodness sake. We ended the season very positively last year. We have brought in some new players, some of whom we haven’t seen much of yet. Let’s give them, and Silva, a bit of a chance.

Kieran Kinsella
35 Posted 16/09/2019 at 15:55:19
Steve Ferns 21,

Also, let's look at who has got worse under Silva, ie, the youngsters, the very people you'd expect to improve.

Lookman "the envy of the EPL" – Never got a game, ended up leaving.

Davies, promoted to captain, then declined to occasional starter, now he only makes the bench if we have injuries.

Kenny, started half our games the season prior, last year barely featured, he has had to go out on loan to get a game, although since doing so he seems to have improved without Silva's influence.

Kieran Dowell, he has becoming less and less effective month over month and is surely finished at Everton.

Holgate, had a decent loan year away, came back had a few less than stellar performances under Silva and seems to be surplus to requirements.

Then you have Niasse and Tosun, both flops but they'd at least get an occasional goal under Ron or Sam. Now they're seemingly impotent.

Not to mention other "promising youngsters" like Robinson, Williams, Connolly, Beningame all of whom have dropped from being in the first team squad to the wilderness elsewhere or under Unsie.

John Keating
36 Posted 16/09/2019 at 15:57:29
Great post, Danny.

So how long do we give Silva? Have you seen any improvement in the last 18 months or so, tactically?

Thoughts we were aiming for a top 6 finish. Where do you reckon we will get based on the start we have had with the fixture list?

Great and very essy to say have good faith. Thing is… do you really believe it?

Brian Harrison
37 Posted 16/09/2019 at 16:01:39

I don't think our fans are fickle, but they are definitely frustrated at our away performances. We see a team at Goodison that is quite unrecognizable away from Goodison. This isn't new: according to the stats in the Echo for the last 20 years we win on average 4.8 away games a season, and even in the year Moyes got us to 4th we still only managed 6 away wins.

You don't tend to get full houses at every home game and sell out your away allocation if your fans are fickle. Everton are like some wines: we don't travel very well, and is a perennial problem that needs sorting quickly. Otherwise, another manager will be sacrificed.

Phil Greenough
38 Posted 16/09/2019 at 16:06:17
Brian, as you have pointed out, away form has been atrocious for 20 years.

What do you think Silva's going to do, to sort it out quickly???

Danny Broderick
39 Posted 16/09/2019 at 16:06:21

Our new signings are still finding their feet. Kean is not ready yet. Gbamin is now injured for a couple of months. Sidibe isn't ready yet either. Delph is just about getting up to speed now. It would be absolute insanity to even contemplate sacking the manager now.

To answer your questions, I have seen improvements in the last 18 months. Our defending has improved massively since January compared to last year, in spite of the last couple of games. Numerous players have improved:

Sigurdsson (although I'm not a fan, he's done much better under Silva than his predecessors).
Calvert-Lewin (still a work in progress, but he is getting better)

Zouma and Gueye performed well under Silva last year also.

I can't say how long we should give Silva to judge him, but I know one thing – to sack him after 5 games this season, before his new players have even had a chance to settle in, would be utterly ridiculous. We would be an absolute laughing stock.

Danny Broderick
40 Posted 16/09/2019 at 16:10:06

Frustration at our away form is one thing. I share that frustration.

Asking for the manager to be sacked now is fickle. The more I think of it, the more ludicrous it is. It’s an absolute joke to even suggest it.

Steve Ferns
41 Posted 16/09/2019 at 16:12:58
Danny, we are one point off third too!

Can some not see that the Premier League has changed? We have a top two that are far away from the rest of the league. Then there is nothing, in the embryonic season, between 9 sides, just a point. This includes Spurs, Chelsea, Man Utd and Arsenal. Ever thought that with the amount of money in the Premier League now that the supposed cannon fodder are more capable and getting better and better results on a more consistent basis?

There's no excuse for a poor performance against Bournemouth and Villa. Let's not under-estimate just how well Bournemouth performed though. If I was a Bournemouth fan, I would be extremely pleased with that performance.

This is looking like a season where the big 6 becomes the big 2, and there's some new names in the top 6, at last. I share everyone's concerns that we look incapable of being one of them though. Why we can't be a bit more patient and see if the manager can arrest the slide and re-discover the form from the end of last season?

John Pierce
42 Posted 16/09/2019 at 16:13:21
Danny, performances do not exist in a vacuum of season to season. If you believe many on this thread are basing there posts on 5 games then I think you are mistaken. Silva's whole body of work at Everton is there for a rounded critique.

The on-field issues repeat themselves with no sign of correction under Silva, that is fair comment. He cannot break down poor sides, his record shows that. What makes it more maddening is he can set a team up against better sides, Counter attacking is fine in this situation, but to achieve more he has to find the answer when his teams has the majority of the ball. He patently doesn't know-how.

As for the fans. Sure use the term fickle if you want, however, decades of nothing, allied to the rise of our neighbours have put this club and the manager's job firmly in the frame for criticism. Is it any wonder many cannot nor should show forbearance towards and mediocre is as apt a moniker as it could be. We have neither troubled the top or bottom six on a regular basis for over a decade.

We are nowhere.

Andy Riley
43 Posted 16/09/2019 at 16:15:10
I think the position around Silva's future depends on the availability of a replacement who would be both an upgrade and available. Jose Mourhino is a proven winner so is an upgrade and appears to be available currently.

I think that makes it a bit of a no-brainer should the owners accept that Silva is now clearly not a long term answer in terms of us bothering the top six in the foreseeable future. Appointing him would be a statement that the club do not accept mediocrity.

Jay Harris
44 Posted 16/09/2019 at 16:16:52
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Joao Pedro Sousa's departure to be replaced by the "highly thought of????" Luis Boa Morte. Perhaps his last name is appropriate because the team are playing like the dead.

I was opposed to Silva's appointment and following our collapse after the Anfield derby was calling for his head but then we went on that end of season run after Silva had spent the famous "17 days" with the squad and I was persuaded that I was wrong and that Steve Ferns faith was justified.

We are just as inconsistent again but none of us have the answer. Mourhino even if he would come would want to spend hundreds of millions on new players but maybe the magnet that we need to attract top players.

On the other hand, he seems to have lost the plot these last few years and like 'Arry Rednapp has left clubs in a worse position when he left. The only real person I think might have the desired effect is Bielsa.

So if we are fed up changing managers, what is the answer?

There has to be something going on behind the scenes although players are saying nice things about the club and Finch Farm.

Is it Kenwright's interference or big Dunc or the old brigade undermining the changes.

Maybe money is the issue. Some players may resent the big money new signings are being brought in on and have decided not to put as much effort in.

There appears to be no steel or determination like we had when much lesser players played under Moyes. I know some people thought we were still mediocre but we were fairly consistently top 6 on bottom 6 funding.

As I said, we don't really know the problem or the solution but something has to change quickly or we will change from not being relevant to being totally irrelevant.

Danny Broderick
45 Posted 16/09/2019 at 16:20:14

This is the rise of the modern fan. Some of these people will no doubt disappear if we win a few. They’ll then be back once we lose a few, telling us they were right all along. I despair.

Danny Broderick
46 Posted 16/09/2019 at 16:27:21

We ended last season well after a mixed first half-season. We got the atmosphere back at Goodison, several players improved. The football was better, and so was the defending.

I'm astounded there are now calls from some for the manager's head 5 games into the new season. Some might have gripes from last season – tactics, substitutions etc. Some might be frustrated at our away form. It's a bit of a leap, to put it mildly, to now want the manager sacked!!

What would our new players think if we sacked the manager before they'd even bought a house? It would be an absolute joke. We've only lost 2 games!

Jay Harris
47 Posted 16/09/2019 at 16:27:57

You are right saying it is ludicrous to panic but the same symptoms are appearing again and again so we are seeing a pattern of calamitous defending just like the Martinez collapse.

This shambolic defending cannot continue if we are to harbour any hopes of becoming relevant again.

So is the answer to sit on our arses until and if it comes right?

Andrew Dempsey
48 Posted 16/09/2019 at 16:29:41
Silva just needs to see the light, which may or may not happen. I would prefer a more maverick manager but he's here for the rest of the season, no matter what, I think.

The light I'm referring to; Calvert-Lewin is a crap footballer who needs replacing up top immediately with Kean. Sigurdsson is bang average and slow-witted, Bernard should be in his position.

We all know about Schneiderlin; he ruins our whole gameplan, slows things down, doesn't offer any protection either. Gomes or Davies should always play with Delph, to keep us on the front-foot, so we don't have to worry about defending.

Silva might sort these problems out by the end of this season, but if he doesn't, he should be sacked.

Dave Abrahams
49 Posted 16/09/2019 at 16:30:19
Danny (45), one or two fans might be as you describe them. Most of the fans on here want Everton to be playing better than they are at the moment (all of this season and pre-season).

I doubt if any of these fans would want Everton to carry on playing like they are in order to be proved right.

Ken Kneale
50 Posted 16/09/2019 at 16:34:19
Hi Danny,

I can recall Ball Kendall and Harvey in their prime so I hardly qualify for 'modern fan' and many posting on TW can go back far longer than I.

If anything the modern fan seems as Andy's article points out, to accept the mediocrity that we have been served on and off for far too long - none of the recent managers would have lasted with Everton in their prime (I include Moyes's length of tenure without a trophy in that) and most would not have got a sniff at the job in the first place.

I note John Moores sacked Carey with a very good footballing team sitting in 5th position on the basis his mentality was not that of a winner. A parallel here for sure looking at the team set up and play in our away games and the body language of the manager during and after the games.

I agree, turmoil is not needed but the alternative is worse - further erosion of the club's history and status. Silva needs to man-up and get his team playing if he wishes to avoid further speculation and unrest.

Kieran Kinsella
51 Posted 16/09/2019 at 16:34:24
Danny Broderick,

Where is the evidence that Silva is good? A brief spell at Estoril about a decade ago. He won the Greek league with Olympiakos in 2016. Big deal, they won it without him in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2017. That apart a brief spell of good form at Hull followed by relegation, a bright start at Watford before a dismal run and being sacked.

At Everton, he inherited an 8th place team, and kept them at 8th. That's it. That is his resume, other than winning the "taca de Portugal" in Lisbon but getting sacked anyway.

So yeah, give people time and all that but I'd argue it is one thing to say to Chelsea, "Give Mourinho time" as you know he's won the league with them before, plus all his other success. With Silva, there is no evidence to suggest he is up to this job.

Steve Ferns
52 Posted 16/09/2019 at 16:36:58
Dave, ALL fans on here want Everton to be playing better than they are at the moment.

The goals were all very avoidable. And I don't think the blame lies with the manager. Sure you could argue man-to-man and zonal marking again, but that won't change that Richarlison was beaten at the near post, Calvert-Lewin at the far post, and then Keane stood gawping in the middle. Same would likely to have happened on man-to-man marking. Delph should have blocked the free-kick and Mina and Keane should have prevented the third.

All terrible errors. Goals change games and we were playing pretty well in the middle third up until the second goal. We were also having a lot of success in pressing Bournemouth. Had we passed better in the final third then we might have scored the third goal and then we'd all be on here enjoying ourselves in third place, level with Man City. It's a fine line.

Steve Ferns
53 Posted 16/09/2019 at 16:40:22
Kieran, he won 3 trophies. The Estoril spell ended 5 years ago, not 10. And the points-per-game ratio for Olympiacos is a record, that means something no one else has ever done. He also set a European record for successive victories.

Then there's his Champions League record with notable away victories against bigger clubs. There's plenty of evidence to suggest he's up to the job.

As above, it's a fine line between being lauded and the kicking that you want to give him today.

Jamie Crowley
54 Posted 16/09/2019 at 16:45:38
After last season, I said Marco had earned the right, after the resurgence from the Gawd-awful Holiday period, to stay three years. I feel we have to stay patient, and let this play out.

That being said, I'd like Marco to do many things differently, and I'm supremely frustrated with him right now. Playing Schneiderlin, benching Davies, everything seemingly down the wings with very little play through the middle of the pitch, etc. etc.

But he's shown he can indeed get us moving in the right direction. What drives me nuts is his penchant on occasionally naming a line up. and playing players, where everyone else in the world is like, "What the fuck, Marco?"

Anywho.. . .

My only corollary to Silva for three years is this:

If Mikel Arteta, just down the road, can be pried from Pep's tutelage and woo'd over to Everton, after Marco seeing us in a really poor table positions (17th to 11th) I'd pull the trigger.

All the arguments against naming Mikel manager I've already considered, and can justify blowing off in my own mind.

Dennis Stevens
55 Posted 16/09/2019 at 16:49:31
"... blowing off in my own mind" – is that what is known as a brain fart, Jamie?
Dave Abrahams
56 Posted 16/09/2019 at 16:52:38
Steve (52), yes I agree all the fans want Everton to be playing better, that's why a lot of us are on here asking why we aren't.

They / we are not having a go just because of yesterday but since the middle of July when we started playing the friendly games and not too well, against poor and mediocre teams.

Yes, the manager was left without three centre-backs and the midfield was depleted by injuries but three or four players have started the season in very poor form and are still selected: Keane (maybe still in because there is no one else) although I'd say a replacement couldn't do worse, Schneiderlin (a fraud in my eyes); Richarlison (although he's had no rest in the summer and mumps have stopped him); Seamus (pains me to say it).

I agree that Silva will still be here for the rest of the season and maybe deserves that space, but he has got to improve the team, especially the away form. The question, Steve, is can he? I have my doubts.

Jay Harris
57 Posted 16/09/2019 at 16:57:06

Man City are showing the same defensive problems as us with a much more expensive squad?

Jerome Shields
58 Posted 16/09/2019 at 16:59:40

There are definite problems behind the scenes. But we can only speculate as we get glimpses, from fans who know somebody the odd titbit.

I think Pedro Sousa and Louis How Morte are only as good as those they work with. Whilst Silva has enhanced the play, there is a prevailing poor motivation and attitude that surfaces on a regular basis.

Ferguson, when tackled by a fan regarding previous poor performance, said 'My hands are tied'. Which showed a bit of disconnection. The Academy, though it produces winning teams, doesn't seem to be in line with Brands expectations. The Head Physio who Martinez got rid off, just boomeranged back to his job. Vlasic was surprised at fry ups, before training. What goes on during breaks in the Premier League program is not working or being worked on. Then you have players not playing on good long term contracts who seem to be content to see them out, with an attitude probably to match. When loaned out don't seem too bothered. Young players looking for loan in the hope of getting a permanent move away and others who are loaned out and not contacted by the Club, as one Manager in the destination Club complained about.

There are a lot of people at Everton who have been put in secure jobs and not too bothered about how they perform.

This reflects itself in the team attitude which we all have seen too often over the years.

This is my insight, rather than the know-all insider knowledge I am accused of at times on ToffeeWeb.

Jamie Crowley
59 Posted 16/09/2019 at 17:02:22
Dennis -


Jay -

Man City are the best team I've seen in the Premier League in my time. Period.

I've consigned my Blue future, after the umpteenth time of failing to make a real statement of intent this weekend, to being entertained.

Jay, I don't give a single, flying fuck about defending. Not a single flying fuck. We're never going to win a goddamn thing. I want to watch some footy that gets me out of my chair. Pep's brand of footy, and Mikel having been brought up under Wenger and Pep both, would be an extension of that.

Defensive problems? Honestly, if you're inevitably going to finish 7th to 12th inevitably, who cares about defensive problems! Play some no-holes-barred soccer on the journey please?

Steve Ferns
60 Posted 16/09/2019 at 17:03:20
He can and he will Dave.

I think Richarlison is playing well. I think I read he had 3 of our 4 shots. He's also up there on the defensive charts in terms of tackles, which shows how much tracking back he is doing.

Schneiderlin cannot be forgiven what he did, but he was playing well yesterday until the collapse. He was passing the ball more inventively than I've seen for a while, switching play, and looking at his best, two desperate lunges aside. Again, like the others his performance went downhill as the team collapsed with the second Bournemouth goal.

Coleman seems to struggle with the armband and I understand the shouts to give it to Delph. Though Delph was as guilty as anyone for the collapse as his performance went down hill fast after that second goal. I also think he was affected by the booking.

Surely, you can see that up to that second goal, we were moving the ball well and looked good except for in the final third. I thought the game was setup for Moise Kean to come on and get the winner.

The fragility of the side is a big concern though. You'd think we would be more robust than we are.

Jamie Crowley
61 Posted 16/09/2019 at 17:06:06

The best game, bar none, I've watched in a long while, was the Norwich – Man City game this weekend. It was absolutely fantastic.

I envy Norwich fans – and that's saying a mofo lot! They know they'll have a go, every single week. They'd never, ever put Morgan fucking Shcneiderlin on the pitch. It may go tits up for them, and they might get spanked 4-0 one week, but they'll come flying back the next, tossing the kitchen sink at the opponent.

Their fans must be in heaven.

I actually envy Norwich, Jay. Now what the fuck does that say about our current situation?

Steve Ferns
63 Posted 16/09/2019 at 17:12:26
Jamie, they will only be like that for the start of the season. If they keep getting spanked 4-0 then you stop being able to rebound. Each walloping takes a bit more out of you.

They will get worn down and become less effective as the season wears on. Unless, of course, they win more often than not, and those wallopings are few and far between. A bit like Bournemouth in their first season.

Jamie Crowley
64 Posted 16/09/2019 at 17:17:05
Steve -

We are a larger club with more depth. We can actually play that way, and still weather injuries and fatigue.

I take your point, but would say it's not overly applicable to a club our size.

Or ask those lovable folks across the park? They play a stupid, high-octane, entertaining game. After hoisting a Champions League trophy, I'd argue they didn't run out of gas.

I'm not arguing that Norwich won't fall short. I'm arguing that, 1. I don't care any longer, and 2. we won't fall short as we're better equipped to handle the shortcomings of playing blitzkrieg football.

Thought of another team I'm slightly envious of, too. Leicester City. They'll play a wonderful brand of soccer this season, and finish above us.

Chelsea will go through growing pains, but Frank is having a proper go every single game, and playing a lot of youngsters. Exciting. They'll finish above us, too.

I want the brand of football we play to change.

John Pierce
65 Posted 16/09/2019 at 17:29:09
Steve, maybe it's time to stop defending and over egging his record pre-Everton? His results and performances for Everton are what's up for debate.

Flaws are acceptable if they're addressed. The fact is you cannot counter-attack bad teams, from Huddersfield at home last year to Palace this year, no change.

By your own admission is he a counter-attacking manager. Overwhelmingly his best performances came against the top six.

Where's the progress in beating the crap, the dross? It's no co-incidence our wins have come against the teams who were prepared to take us on. Even when we do win it's a struggle, we didn't batter any poor side last year, Burnley the stunning outlier.

Tactically too much down the flanks and into the centre were we lack bodies flooding the box and are always outnumbered. How can we score when we rely on a near-perfect cross to one forward?
Poor sides find that fairly easy to repel. Tyrone Mings looked like Bobby Moore when we played them.

That's the formation and lack of flexibility on Silva's part. One dimensional.

So outline where it's going right against the poor sides, the progress that's being made? I'm struggling to see it.

Jay Harris
66 Posted 16/09/2019 at 17:29:29

I think the entertainment quota has improved under Silva but regrettably mostly for the opposition particularly when we are away from home.

I guess the home support provide the motivation that the manager seems to lack but, for me, we are shambolic and given our back 5 cost over £100M and contains 5 internationals from reasonably weighty teams it is disappointing to see schoolboy defending.

Liam Reilly
67 Posted 16/09/2019 at 17:44:26
Can't believe there's a desire on here to sack the Manager 5 games in.

It's 1-1; Everton are dominating possession and the game and Calvert-Lewin is one-on-one with their keeper... He just needs to put his foot on the ball and crash into their keeper for a penalty.

Or maybe Delph needs to use his RIGHT foot... I'm sure Silva didn't tell Mina and Keane to switch off for the 3rd.

The side (even with the recruits) is arguably weaker this season than last, but isn't that Brands's fault?

Jamie Crowley
68 Posted 16/09/2019 at 18:16:32
Jay @66 -

I'm with you. With that kind of outlay, I'd argue it furthers my point.

You should be able to bomb forward and leave those guys on an island in the back, yet only concede a goal a game, for that investment!

Jay Wood

69 Posted 16/09/2019 at 18:41:26
Andy mate, you often bring a smile to my face with your passionate posts. Your opening post achieves that again.

Dunno if you play much poker, but once you take a position you always go 'all-in'. You've done so again here.

I agree with your opening comments on the futility – the stupidity, even – of some TWers calling out fellow Evertonians as 'accepting mediocrity.'

No supporter without position or influence at the higher echelons of the club can directly change or determine the course of the club. Describing other Blues as 'accepting mediocrity' is empty rhetoric then as far as I'm concerned. And I'm always interested to know what those making that call are actively doing to better the club by NOT 'accepting mediocrity', but you never get an answer to that question (because they are doing 'porthcrawl').

Now your question on whether Silva is the right man to take Everton forward is a legitimate one, as are all responses and opinions (though some more than others, perhaps).

But given how last season ended and the summer recruitment went, there was barely a murmur about replacing him. He was always going to get this season (or at a bare minimum, start it) as manager.

You won't get any argument from me that with our benevolent opening fixtures we should have got off to a flier. We should have more points on the board. Instead, we are seeing performances more akin to the post-Anfield late defeat, than we are post-Cardiff which was the launch for our strong end to last season.

But just five games into a new season and calling for him to be sacked? Nah, Andy lad. Way too knee-jerk for me and a lousy, LOUSY time to be recruiting a new manager even if we did dispense with his services.

If, however, the performances and results continue to be as dismal as they have been to date, the odds of him remaining as manager will come tumbling down until all bets are off.

Rob Hooton
70 Posted 16/09/2019 at 19:20:48
Well, I couldn't stay away long after my Monday morning blues tantrum this morning and as usual love all of the different comments above.

There is no way I would sack Silva at this point after the final few months of the last campaign – especially as my brother was over from Thailand in April and we took my dad to watch us spank Man Utd 4-0! One of the best days ever, that.

Nobody wants mediocrity on here, we all show our frustration differently and express it in our unique ways. The arguments for and against Silva all have merit and I thank Steve F for his input this last 18 months!

Only time will tell; I'm going to give him some.

Kieran Kinsella
71 Posted 16/09/2019 at 19:22:15

I don't think anyone wants Silva to get sacked but there is a strong sense of Déjà Vu here as once again we have a new batch of signings, and the same old failings. It's easy to say "well we are only a point of third." But, we say that every year, and every year we end up in or around mid-table.

The fact is that we've played no one of note yet and we've lost 2 games already and drawn one. That is fairly pathetic. I would much prefer that Silva turns things around instead of wasting more money of payoffs but I just don't see anything to suggest it is going to happen. My fear is that a year, 18 months, or 2 years from now, we sack and say "We should have done it sooner."

Fran Mitchell
72 Posted 16/09/2019 at 19:24:35
Giving Silva praise for Gueye's form is akin to praising Souness for Le Tissier's form at Southampton. Gueye is a class player, was for an awful Villa, was for an average then awful Everton under Koeman, and continued under a very awful sometimes average Everton under Silva. That is a result of Gueye being class, not Silva.

Digne and Gomes was a case of players who struggled with the pressure at an extremely big club and then didn't play, and got back to playing. Keane was a car of regaining fitness.

Schneiderlin – still a shame he's with us imo.

Richarlison is a top class player who is young and getting better, but to praise Silva for that?!? Stretching.

I don't expect Silva to leave any time soon. But I have doubted his ability to take us forward for a long time, and he has done nothing for me to think he'll change.

Our team is better than most, and eventually we'll have a 5/6 game run where we look great and score goals and collect 18-21 points. Then we'll be back to mediocrity waiting for individual 'moments' to score goals.

Our style of play lacks vibrancy, lacks movement, lacks imagination, lacks aggression – basically anything that makes a top team.

People say about 'Silva's attacking philosophies' – but I am at a loss as to what they are seeing. Attacking we are poor, zero imagination and few chances made. Good teams create 15-20 chances a game, we struggle to make 5.

And we have a good team, full of international players who would get into most teams in the league.

Of course, there is no guarantee that a new manager will improve things, but there is a guarantee (in my eyes) that this manager will not.

So what does it take? If we are crap all season, have one good spell like last year, and finish 8th again – does he get another year?

Do we need to wait to drop to 12th or lower to make a change?

We currently have Kean and Richarlison, two potentially top level forwards. Do we wait for them to give up on us and move on to finally make a change?

Silva got a pass for recovering what was a dreadful season last time out. But all in all, he wasn't much beyond a 5/10 for what we did last season. The start we got this season was a gift, a chance to make a statement in which he has drastically failed. And look at his demeanour – dreadful.

Can anyone really imagine that feeble character that was in the dugout on Sunday leading the charges in a Cup Final? Nah, me neither.

O don't expect him to go, but I neither expect him to improve and it will take something for me to change my mind.

Not being Sam Allardyce is not enough. Again, Marcelino on an 18-month contract would do me.

Tony Abrahams
74 Posted 16/09/2019 at 20:07:02
Best line I've read on ToffeeWeb for a while that Jamie, about not having to put up with Morgan fuckin Schneiderlin, who sucks the life out of me when it comes to watching football.

Keane might have improved but he's definitely not good enough imo, especially playing alongside Mina, because they just don't complement each other, and every good team starts with its defence.

We kept 8 clean sheets out of the last 11 games last season, and I'd have a bet now that we won't beat 8 clean sheets with 33 matches still to play, if we can't find a way to change the personnel in the middle of our defence, because you can see every team “cottonin-on” to our very, very obvious weakness.

Sam Hoare
75 Posted 16/09/2019 at 20:52:55
Fran @72 even Man City and Liverpool struggle to create 15-20 chances every game!

Marcelino is an interesting idea. A good manager in my eyes though a pretty risky one given he's never worked outside of Spain.

You say we are a good team, full of internationals but so are all the top ten in this league. I don't see that our squad is much better than the likes of West Ham, Leicester or Wolves. We are similar to most of the teams and will likely finish somewhere in their midst.

Tony Hill
76 Posted 16/09/2019 at 21:11:19
What's so frustrating is that some of our play in most games under Silva is of high quality: fast and incisive. But we can't sustain it and then very quickly we lose heart and tempo.

Even at home - often when we go ahead, in fact - our momentum stalls and we allow the opposition back in and they gain confidence. You can see it happening but the team doesn't seem to be able to manage itself cannily to suit the moment and to set the pace and trajectory of the game.

Maybe Delph can do something about that, but we need harder and more intelligent characters on the pitch, no question. We may well also need to see the same hardness and intelligence from the technical area and at Finch Farm.

Andy Crooks
77 Posted 16/09/2019 at 21:34:04
Jay, you are right. My wife, often described as long-suffering, says it is always black or white and I admit a built up a head of steam. I respect the more nuanced views that the likes of you and Steve Ferns take. But I'm a bit long in the tooth to learn new tricks.

To me Sunday had a different feel to it. It reminded me of Martinez at Southhampton. A horrible gut feeling that we have the wrong man. I supported and defended Silva and had anyone told me on Easter Sunday that I would be writing this in September I would have been incredulous.

I will say, though, that if and when he produces the team and success that we all want, I will be happy to have been totally wrong. I will eat all the humble pie served up.

Mike Gaynes
78 Posted 16/09/2019 at 21:43:33
Steve, as I said in the other thread your insistence that Silva bears no blame for the recurring defensive failures, especially on set pieces, is just silly. The manager sets up the scheme for defending corners. This manager is an idiot on defending corners.

Silva DID improve Zouma, Digne and Keane over the course of last season. Hell, he rebuilt Zouma's career. Richarlison, Mina and Schneiderlin have all improved this year, although no, Steve, the latter is nowhere near back to his form of 2017.

And Kieran #35, sorry but it's just utterly ridiculous to blame Silva for the lack of development of young players. Lookman didn't want to be here, Davies is bucking better players, JJK only "started half our games the season prior" because Coleman was injured, and Dowell couldn't possibly become "less and less effective month over month" because he has never done one damn "effective" thing at Everton. And Niasse and Tosun? Please.

So Silva can coach players.

But I have never believed he was the long-term manager for this club. I was willing to be convinced. Instead I am becoming convinced otherwise.

He cannot change strategy during games. He cannot change strategy between games. He is locked into his system and has no Plan B when things aren't working. He is passive, reactive rather than proactive, predictable to the point of paralysis. And he has been out-managed in every game this season, wins and losses both, including at Lincoln.

No, I do NOT believe he should be sacked. We went through that panicky change-the-manager-monthly stage and I do not wish to repeat it. This club just doesn't have enough talent to be a major contender this season (Sam is right), but it does have enough to finish 7th even for an average manager, so rolling the dice right now would be pointless. And there is no other manager currently available I would want to run this club right now.

But I believe that like our playing roster, our manager will require further upgrading next summer.

Mike Gaynes
79 Posted 16/09/2019 at 21:50:03
Tony #74, central defense isn't our biggest issue by a long shot. Defending set pieces is.

I think Mina and Keane are way better now than Zouma and Keane were last fall -- remember Zouma was pretty awful the first couple months -- and I consider Mina a star in the making. He'll make more mistakes like yesterday because of inexperience, but he'll be great.

Rob Dolby
80 Posted 16/09/2019 at 22:16:04
We have replaced Gueye with Gbamin and not replaced Jags or Zouma.

Add to that we still haven't got an established striker and have pinned our season hopes on a 19-year-old lad.

I do think his like for like subs don't do us or him any favours especially when we go behind in games.

What do people seriously expect. Sacking the manager isn't going to help at this stage. Diago Simeone isn't knocking the door down is he.

Michael Lynch
81 Posted 16/09/2019 at 22:16:18
We're not very good so far this season. We weren't very good for the majority of last season. And funnily enough, the season before we looked a bit shit too.

Has Silva improved the team? Is he a better manager than the previous lot? Well, on points per game percentage, he's just below Gordon Lee and Ronald Koeman, and miles behind Bobby Brownshoes – but he is a couple of percentage points above Big Sam. And he's definitely doing better than Mike Walker.

That's only objective measure really isn't it? We can argue all we like about whether Silva is a genius or a clown, but statistically we're no better off than we were under Koeman.

Kieran Kinsella
82 Posted 16/09/2019 at 22:17:33
Tony 74

I think Keane is decent but I think he is one of those who needs a real leader beside him. Kind of reminds me of the late Gary Ablett. He was a technically sound player but kind of error prone. However, when he had a good spell alongside Watson he did really well. I think Keane's confidence is iffy, and I think he is iffy about Mina. If we have someone more solid and more of a leder alongside him I think he would be fine.

Mike Gaynes,

I don't see any improvement. Keane, Schneiderlin and Mina have all had better spells of form for long periods elsewhere prior to Silva. Rich was a sensation right out of the gates at Watford which I hardly think you can credit Silva for as he'd just me the guy. Thereafter, Rich went downhill and at Everton he has periodically regained that early form. I seriously do not see any improvement in anyone since Silva has been here.

Jamie Crowley
83 Posted 16/09/2019 at 22:20:43
Marco Silva is like that "tight" friend. The one who doesn't ever go wild, doesn't ever have more than one beer, dresses appropriately and neatly all the time, has his manners turned on continually, and has a robotic and corporate approach to life in general.

You just want to take him out and get him shit-faced drunk. Just once, just to see what the fuck happens. Maybe he says something suggestive to the lady next to him? Maybe he dances. Maybe he pukes in the bathroom at the pub. Just once, you want to see him let loose, and enjoy life.

You don't want to change the man, nor do you want him to do anything inappropriate. But you feel like he's just falling a bit short on what life has to offer. Spread his wings and for once do something a bit nuts.

That's Marco. Marco, try running with scissors. Just once. Please.


Mike Doyle
84 Posted 16/09/2019 at 22:30:12
I sort of agree with Mike Gaynes about Mina. I suspect there is a really good player in there. Problem is I don't think Mina & Keane work as a pair. They don't inspire confidence in each other – and don't have the extra protection that Idrissa provided during his purple period in the second half of last year.
Mike Doyle
85 Posted 16/09/2019 at 22:32:33
As an aside. Watching Silva sulking in the dugout when we go behind doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

Say what you like about Klopp, but he doesn't accept the complacency our manager tolerates.

Kunal Desai
86 Posted 16/09/2019 at 22:42:52
I'll stick by Silva for now. I said last season I wanted to see him given a few months into this season and see signs of progress.

The key here for him are the next three away games and he has got to win at least two of those (Burnley, Brighton and Southampton). Sheffield Utd and Norwich at home we need to pick up maximum points from those two, Man City and Spurs are free hits.

It's time for Silva to deliver there is no free pass this time around of 3 wins from 14 games. A repeat of this then yes he should most definitely be given his marching orders. Happy to see where we are before the dreaded derby.

Paul Kelly
87 Posted 16/09/2019 at 23:02:10
Mike @ 78, don't worry about Steve Ferns, for all his insight I think he his slowly losing the plot, it's what Everton does to people. In the last few days, Ferns has stated that Huddersfield would of won the league last year with a 'Prime Messi', (we wouldn't of won yesterday with one), Schneiderlin is back to his best (no he's not), and Silva don't stop talking to the players and it's a Sky conspiracy when they show him sulking, stoned faced on the side lines looking at the floor like he's let one rip in mass and trying to walk out without anyone knowing.

Each to their own I guess.

Paul Kelly
88 Posted 16/09/2019 at 23:04:43
JC @ 83 take a bow mate, brilliant post and link.


Derek Thomas
89 Posted 16/09/2019 at 00:35:07
Jamie @83; Sounds exactly like a caricature of Moyes, the dour Presbyterian PE teacher, cold showers and salt on your porridge, (Luxury!) Moyes from Eugene.

I can get the need not to go totally kneejerk, in the manner of Clubs that have had 12 managers in a decade with one season to go. But while mid-table might tick all the KPIs for this century, many will remember the last Century where nobody much liked a similarly (on first nod) Gordon Lee and 3rd was abject failure.

Then we have the cry that its not the managers fault, its the players, they're not arsed, they're all too rich, gold Bentley etc.

Breaking news...All the players are too rich...did it stop Norwich and Watford this weekend?

City then, their players are definitely too rich, yet they seemed to do it every week, not a one-off new manager bounce like Watford.

So it IS the managers fault then, I always knew that Pep was shite, we should've gone for Arteta, he's the real brains behind him...on it goes, round and round.

As always with The Ev, more questions than answers - twas ever thus.

Kenwright was happy with staying in the prem, 10th-ish was (and maybe still is) the bench mark oh if you can have a go at the 7th-ish cup and the odd cup run, well fairplay to you.

Moshiri will be happy with building the stadium and cashing in via a sell on to 'some other fool' (Google that principle). It could be that what kept Kenwright happy will keep Moshiri happy and if he happens to hit the right on-field combo, then what's not to like.

8 years on, the new stadium gloss has worn off and we'll still be having the same conversations.

Rant cum ramble there. Short version; we have to hope we get lucky and it somehow gells, because Silva hasn't a clue and Moshiri's not really arsed either way.

Kieran Kinsella
90 Posted 17/09/2019 at 01:23:06
In the time we’ve been patiently building since Moyes rolled out his first three year plan Burnley and Swansea have been to the bottom of the league and back. Anthony Gordon was in nappies back then. So forgive me if I have zero optimism when we start off another season as-was.
Tony Abrahams
91 Posted 17/09/2019 at 12:20:05
Mike @79 says Mina will be great, then Kieran @82 says Keane is decent, but he needs a leader alongside him.

I'm not disagreeing with either point, I'm just saying they are just not complementing each other, and it's not good for the team.

Mike Gaynes
92 Posted 17/09/2019 at 16:35:28
Tony, they say nice things about each other all the time!
Stan Schofield
94 Posted 19/09/2019 at 17:53:06
I don't think any of us are accepting mediocrity. We're all very frustrated, because we do have good players, we can play well as a team, we do entertain under Silva, but we are so inconsistent.

It's the lack of consistency that is the killer. Expectations are always raised, then quickly dashed. It's been happening for some time. Maybe the only thing Everton can do is persist with Silva for this season, but then take action if we show no signs of breaking away from midtable by the end of the season. If we stay midtable, it shows zero progression.

Only two years ago, many Liverpool supporters were calling for Klopp's head, particularly after they'd had three successive defeats. Early last season, there were calls for Salah to be dropped. Until Van Dijk and Allison were signed they couldn't quite win things because they were too weak in defence. But those two signings, and being patient with Klopp, seem to be bringing major rewards.

In this sense, maybe we're only a signing or two away from real progression. An experienced additional centre-half and striker might do it. The alternative of sacking Silva has no guarantee of changing things any quicker.

Peter Mills
95 Posted 20/09/2019 at 10:53:18
I was in Nantes yesterday, and visited Les Machines du L’Ile, the formerly disused shipyard which is now the birthplace of creations like the giants that visited Liverpool.

There were quite a few new machines on show, an Elephant, a Heron and a number of crustaceans, all with very well constructed limbs. And backbones.

So, the basic elements are in place, ready for a display. After that, it is down to people who have vision, a plan, adaptability, resilience, commitment, team work, skill, and fun, to make the machines work.

Quite a few of those things are missing from Everton FC, our coach should be instilling many of them, and unfortunately he is not doing so.

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