Marco Silva has spoken of the strain that Richarlison's international commitments place on the Brazilian and how they have affected his form in the early part of the season.
Richarlison was involved at the beginning and end of the Copa America in his home country into early July as Brazil made it to the final and won the tournament, with Everton's No 7 scoring a late penalty to seal victory over Peru in the final.
That meant a late start to his preparations for the new Premier League season and since then he travelled across the Atlantic and to both coasts of the United States to take part in international friendlies in September, clocking up over 12,000 miles in the process.
His club manager says that as a result, Richarlison hasn't felt like he has been in peak condition at any point in the campaign so far.
“Richarlison is a player who demands a lot from himself,” Silva was quoted as saying on the Click Liverpool website. "[H]e can put a lot of pressure sometimes on himself also.
“[I]t's not easy. It's tough competition here, even the two Carabao Cup games and he played in both.
“When it's the international break, unfortunately for us, always the journeys are too long to play for Brazil. It's not the best thing but it's not just with him.
“It's a tough period. Sometimes when he comes [back] in, he just had two days to prepare for the next game.
“What we want to see is Richarlison at his best level. But it's something he felt and it's a normal thing.
“The last two games they played in America, always the jet-lag is completely different for a player coming here after eight days there.
“After three days, he played straight [away] in the game against Bournemouth and of course it was a tough game for him.
“The good thing is because we have a number of international players, some moments they suffer this type of fatigue but the season is really long and you have to manage each situation with them.
“What we want is to see all of them in the best level playing in the blue shirt.”
Richarlison has flown to Singapore, another 13,500-plus trip, for two matches in the current international break as part of the Brazil Global Tour, first against Senegal tomorrow and then against Nigeria on Sunday in a match that will pit him against his Goodison Park team-mate, Alex Iwobi.
Reader Comments (125)
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1 Posted 09/10/2019 at 06:09:33
2 Posted 09/10/2019 at 07:03:46
Mind you if he didn't waste so much energy rolling round the pitch every time he was touched he might not be so knackered, plus it ruins the grass
Have a word with him Marco it's sometimes embarrassing
3 Posted 09/10/2019 at 07:17:25
Lets hope he gets back to form soon as think it would help the team tremendously.
4 Posted 09/10/2019 at 08:15:10
5 Posted 09/10/2019 at 08:27:58
7 Posted 09/10/2019 at 09:15:13
Give someone else a chance to stake their claim.
8 Posted 09/10/2019 at 09:28:17
The mind boggles
9 Posted 09/10/2019 at 09:33:28
10 Posted 09/10/2019 at 10:58:39
Richarlison's problem isn't jet-lag — it's maintaining his focus. He has a habit of going off the boil during seasons. He did it while at Watford and he did it playing for us last season and he's doing it now. If things aren't going to plan, suddenly every bump becomes an arm-waving foul. Every tackle an excuse to roll around and complain.
He's supposed to be a top international winger. Defenders are going to be out to stop him. He should know this by now. He should stop complaining, man-up, stay focussed and stay on his feet. Put in more and better crosses and score more goals.
Silva should stop making excuses for poor form. If he's not playing well, drop him and pick someone else. Oh, but Silva doesn't do change. It's why Calvert-Lewin, Coleman, Schneiderlin etc keep getting picked and we keep playing 4-2-3-1 and keep losing.
11 Posted 09/10/2019 at 11:28:52
Now you've said that I'm thinking about it in a totally different way.
12 Posted 09/10/2019 at 11:33:57
Yes, he should stop the play-acting and get on with it. I don't think there is any doubt he already has gained a reputation now with the referees in the Premier League which is not good for him or the team.
He seems to be one of those players that needs to be "loved" in order to get the best out of him.
Regards flying half-way around the world to play friendly matches, not ideal for Everton but Silva can do nothing.
From bits and pieces I have read, Brazilians see playing for their country as the ultimate honour for both them AND their families, there is more emphasis on winning the World Cup to young kids than winning the Premier League, let's say!
Kids having a kickabout dream of being a Neymar with a Brazil shirt on other than Neymar in a PSG shirt. I'm sure the BRZ Jay would know more...
13 Posted 09/10/2019 at 11:37:03
I'm in agreement with some above in that, if it's affecting his performances, then don't play him. Give him a rest. Seems a pretty simple thing to do. We have a selection of forwards/wingers to choose from. Hell, even Anthony Gordon can play out wide. That though would a bit too radical for Silva to contemplate, I think.
14 Posted 09/10/2019 at 11:43:48
15 Posted 09/10/2019 at 11:55:56
Everton have quality throughout the side and Silva needs to get back to basics. His implementation or hybrid of zonal marking is not working and is repeatedly targeted by opposing teams.
The very reason that Everton looked okay against Man City for 80 mins was because they play through the middle and didn't lump balls into our box.
16 Posted 09/10/2019 at 11:56:04
17 Posted 09/10/2019 at 11:57:04
In any case, the point is that the travel does affect performances and, like people have said above, it is up to Silva to use the squad that he has. Use Bernard, Kean, Gordon – do something for God's sake to start getting the results! No excuses!!!
18 Posted 09/10/2019 at 12:24:34
19 Posted 09/10/2019 at 12:27:13
20 Posted 09/10/2019 at 12:48:48
21 Posted 09/10/2019 at 13:09:21
22 Posted 09/10/2019 at 13:15:57
23 Posted 09/10/2019 at 13:17:37
24 Posted 09/10/2019 at 13:34:51
When his form fell off a cliff at Watford his U21 exploits for Brazil were used as the excuse by Silva too.
25 Posted 09/10/2019 at 13:40:32
26 Posted 09/10/2019 at 13:53:59
Frank #10, no, he's not "supposed to be a top international winger", he's supposed to be a top international forward in a 4-3-3, like Brazil uses him. And all young players go "off the boil" sometimes.
Iain #24, silly comment. Gabriel Jesus wasn't called in for Brazil's last two internationals, and you may have noticed that goalkeepers don't have to run about much, so fatigue isn't exactly an issue for Ederson.
And I'm calling BS on all the "rolling around in the grass" comments. It was a major problem last season, but this season he has been a whole lot better. Give him credit for the improvement.
27 Posted 09/10/2019 at 13:54:40
First up, Oliver Molloy @ 12 is spot on when he says getting selected to play football for Brazil is the ultimate dream for a Brazilian.
It's an unpopular notion here on ToffeeWeb where international football and 'En-ger-lund' in particular is held up to ridicule, resented even. But for many other nations, there is still tremendous pride in their national teams. None more so than Brazil.
Richarlison is adored in Brazil for the total commitment he displays whenever he pulls on the national colours. He represents so many of them in that he came from a poor humble background, but against all the odds has made it. He is also a thoroughly decent and humble human being. Not a spoilt indulged 'novo rich' boy as some attempt to portray him as.
In the last international break before the away game at Bournemouth, Richarlison played more minutes than any other Brazilian midfielder or attacker and was arguably their best player in both games, playing with total commitment. Their main attacking thrust and still tracking back and helping out in defence.
This contrasted strongly with Roberto Firmino. I commented at the time that when Firmino was subbed out after an hour, they could have neatly folded his shirt back into its original wrapper and sent it back to Nike asking for a refund as it was 'unused'.
Richarlison was the polar opposite. Maybe he should learn from Firmino's half-arsed example and better conserve his energies for his club football whilst away on international duty.
I also suggested that such was Richarlison's commitment over the two games (plus the international travel, which does take its toll), he would need to be carefully monitored on his return to Finch Farm and more, that it wouldn't surprise me if he didn't start against Bournemouth.
He did. And even though he wasn't at his best, he still laid on our goal for Calvert-Lewin.
Unfortunately, the nature of Nike's shirt sponsorship deal with Brazil means they call the tune and Brazil's friendly games in international breaks can see them play in any and every continent as part of the Nike marketing circus.
Their games this coming week are in Singapore and on the first day Brazilian news stations carried a report of players walking around in near zombie state admitting their body clocks were all over the place.
The saving grace as far as Everton is concerned is that Richarlison is unlikely to feature for as many minutes as last time out as the coach Tite experiments with the likes of (my desired Everton targets) Gabigol and Everton Santos.
As for the extremely cheap shots some make about Richarlison's play-acting, two things:
1) it is much reduced
2) some was merited, in particular when Silva continued playing him in the #9 role last season when time after time he was getting clattered by centre-backs, often illegally
And I'm sorry, David Pearl (and others across different threads), but you are wrong to suggest that the #9 role is his best position in the team. It isn't, partly for the above-stated reason in 2) above. He is not suited to play the target man role as Silva asked him to last season. It could be a different story if Everton's football around their #9 was akin to that of Liverpool and Brazil around Firmino, quick ground passing with close support around him to give and receive the ball. We don't play like that under Silva, more's the pity.
His best performances have been as the wide attacking man (the way Tite mostly plays him for Brazil also). Our best form under Silva's tenure was the back end of last season with Dein and Bernard dovetailing beautifully down the left, Coleman and Richarlison down the right and also Richarlison, Sigurdsson and Calvert-Lewin also in sync.
We are not seeing anything close to that this season and Richarlison (amongst others) looks poorer for it. What you can never, ever question about the boy is his commitment. Wasn't it Richarlison who said: "If you play for the shirt, the fans will remember the name on the back."
Indeed, just 2-3 games into his time at Everton I suggested he needs to be advised to better conserve his energy for his attacking role rather than chase back as much as he does.
In closing, I will say there is some validity in what Silva says. But when he himself adds that Richarlison also played in both our League Cup ties this season, then Silva gets no sympathy from me on this issue. There were two opportunities to allow Richarlison some necessary R&R and simultaneously experiment with other players.
He didn't take the opportunity. For that, Silva has only himself to blame.
28 Posted 09/10/2019 at 14:19:14
If we had just beaten Man City and Silva was making these remarks, we'd see them as a "let's keep our feet on the ground," and have no issue. But, on the back of four straight losses, with as Silva said himself a "must-win" game on the horizon, this is going to be perceived as making excuses ahead of a possible fifth defeat.
In truth, someone probably asked Silva a loaded question about players flying off on internationals as there isn't much else to talk about short of asking him if he is getting sacked, which has already been done to death. But, once his response which is fairly accurate, makes its way to the edited version in the media it definitely creates an impression that he is making excuses.
As with his comments on Sunday, and Koeman's numerous missteps. It makes me wonder why our PR department excel when it comes to EitC but don't see to offer any assistance to players and managers about carefully choosing their words.
29 Posted 09/10/2019 at 14:40:30
Pickford, Keane and Delph (England);
Sidibe and Digne (France)
Moise Keane (Italy);
Gbamin (Ivory Coast).
30 Posted 09/10/2019 at 14:41:22
Or do a Fergy and don't let him go.
31 Posted 09/10/2019 at 14:47:29
l didn't say Richarlison's best position was Number 9. However, I know it isn't as a wing-back covering Coleman.
He should not be clocking so many miles per game. Let's look at Mane as an example. Similarities maybe? We will get the best out of Richarlison further up-field.
32 Posted 09/10/2019 at 14:50:53
International football is weird. In theory, it's the highest level but patently it's not because every side has to make do with what they have. Consequently, you see jokers like Gary Medel of Swansea winning Copa America, Mustafi win the World Cup, etc.
33 Posted 09/10/2019 at 15:11:58
In THIS thread, no. You didn't explicitly say play Richarlison #9, but in other posts, in other threads, you have. (Although, your phrase 'Play him up top' could be interpreted as saying just that). As have others, as I mentioned. I disagree it is his best position.
And don't be silly labelling him as 'a wing-back for Coleman'. You know full well that is not his role.
As my own post clearly states – even from his early days as an Everton player – I expressed concern that his commitment and enthusiasm needs to be reigned in to better conserve his energies for further upfield to maximize the best of him to the greater benefit of the team. On that, we can agree.
34 Posted 09/10/2019 at 15:23:36
1. Don't sign Brazilians
2. Accept that if you do sign Brazilians, they will only be able to play about 30 matches per season for us because they will be knackered and need resting after international games
3. Only give them clearance to play in competitive international matches
4. Don't moan about it or use it as an excuse
All genuine suggestions.
35 Posted 09/10/2019 at 15:30:51
Basically he's an artist and if he's not feeling inspired then he's not inspired, it's all a bit too much for him and he wants a cuddle and to be loved.
Mina went through the same thing this summer and he's not crying his eyes out, give Richarlison a week's rest, with his youth and fitness he shouldn't need any more, he should come back ready to do some damage.
I just don't feel any pity for his "the world is against me" attitude, just get the fuck on with it.
And Silva shouldn't be using this as an excuse for his own ineptitude.
36 Posted 09/10/2019 at 15:33:54
37 Posted 09/10/2019 at 15:55:09
Richarlison should be played up-front but not on his own in a 4-4-2 formation and we will see him fly. He also needs two weeks rest, end of. Silva needs to wind his neck in and do his job.
38 Posted 09/10/2019 at 15:55:35
39 Posted 09/10/2019 at 16:15:43
Artist not inspired? He "want's a cuddle and to be loved"??
Where did that swan dive into irrationality come from?
Richarlison hasn't done ANY of that. No crying, no self-pity, no bad attitude. He's given 105% on the pitch and hasn't uttered a word of complaint. He's just playing poorly, that's all. Silva's doing the moaning, not the kid.
What's with the crapola? Have a clue, man.
40 Posted 09/10/2019 at 16:30:40
41 Posted 09/10/2019 at 16:49:11
A couple of months ago, I did a quick job in Niteroi. Flew there and back business class with Air France. I was absolutely knackered when I got home and couldn't work for a couple of days.
Mind you, it could have been the non-stop drinking in the lounge in Rio, onboard the plane, lounge in CDG, and then on the flight home...
42 Posted 09/10/2019 at 17:23:26
He spends more time in his face than he does in his feet. Maybe someone should mention he'll be a better player if he did stay on his feet and put in more effort than trying to shag the pitch. 100% effort, THE EVERTON WAY.
That's all I want
43 Posted 09/10/2019 at 17:44:06
I will take that, when do we start, I will go and have a look for me steel toe caps !
44 Posted 09/10/2019 at 17:50:38
45 Posted 09/10/2019 at 18:09:51
46 Posted 09/10/2019 at 18:12:56
Just like the Liverpool fans who back theirs to the hilt no matter what.
Maybe thats just the treatment they get for always winning, or maybe they are just winning because they get great support from their fans.
Our players will probably never know because as soon as they pull on a blue shirt the pressure increases 10 fold
47 Posted 09/10/2019 at 18:25:44
I lament losing every game where we concede first.
Trying working on those points first Marco mate 👍.
48 Posted 09/10/2019 at 18:36:04
Every team has fans who demand a lot. Mustafi has a sob story today in the Mirror, last week Trippier was talking about being hounded out of Spurs, this week Spurs fans are calling Dier their "worst player ever." You can't expect blind support no matter how things are. Look at Notts Forest. Clough had totally lost his way on and off the field but out of past loyalty they kept him on without a complaint as he dragged down into Division 1. The loyalty is admirable but Forest have never recovered. We very nearly afforded Howard Kendall the same opportunity in 98. The bottom line is, if they do well we are happy if they don't we are not.
49 Posted 09/10/2019 at 18:47:21
I saw him at a reserve team game at Goodison, he demanded a chair and sat outside the dugout in it watching the game, I watched him and listened to him getting on the coach after the game, to say he wasnt sober would be a huge understatement
50 Posted 09/10/2019 at 18:48:43
John 46, I believe in everyone having a say, plus I'm both too old and slow to disagree too strongly but, as a born blue I take exception to not getting behind players, I do, I also reserve the right to criticise.
Sadly, you mention the red twats that back their players?? are not these the same that bottled and bricked the city coach? well, it was, simply to win the match at ANY cost, successful as you know, I do also have more details of that incident that I'm unable to share, great support, my fucking arse. Cheats, liars, probably gives them a huge compliment.
As for 'pressure' on players, seriously? seriously?? I have been blessed with a wife and family way too good for me which is why I am able to write this, pressure is not kicking a friggin ball, pressure is real world, most footballers could not even spell it.
Again, apologies for commenting, arent opinions great
51 Posted 09/10/2019 at 18:58:02
Yes both managers lost their way through drink because of the pressures of football.
And the pressures on both players and managers today are even higher.
Its great for them that they are on big salaries but they all at the end want success as do the fans.
For Everton who have not won anything since 1995 and who are still thought of as a big team those pressures will increase considerably until we do have success
52 Posted 09/10/2019 at 18:59:20
Yeah it was sad to see with both of them although Clough's issues were far more visible than Howards. I remember the Notts County saying he fired Howard for sitting in his office drinking liquor out of a brown paper bag. I honestly though it was BS at the time. He certainly seemed coherent and as he had always been thereafter at Sheff Utd. Clough on the other hand you could see it in his face, hear it in his slurred words. Either way, very sad to see both of them struggle.
53 Posted 09/10/2019 at 19:10:20
Clough was funny, I remember when he sent a young apprentice out to do an interview for ITV, after one game, with the kid (Sean Brown) pretending he was the motm Franz Carr.
It actually went out on national television, after the game before the plug was pulled, and not many would have got away with that, but not many would have attempted it if they werent bevied either.
54 Posted 09/10/2019 at 19:20:15
55 Posted 09/10/2019 at 19:41:58
56 Posted 09/10/2019 at 19:46:01
57 Posted 09/10/2019 at 19:57:32
58 Posted 09/10/2019 at 20:12:18
Has anybody been watching the Rugby World Club? Injured players are sent home, and their replacements have to travel from the UK or Ireland, and a day or two after landing in Japan, are playing for their country - in a sport that is 10 times more physically demanding.
So go and do one, Marco, and scrape the barrel for a better excuse for the appalling mess you have put this club in.
59 Posted 09/10/2019 at 21:11:47
60 Posted 09/10/2019 at 21:32:37
Maybe Everton fans will be joining that list, if they are not already on it although there is nothing funny about that addiction, especially for family members of the sufferers.
61 Posted 09/10/2019 at 21:46:24
I think we're the lucky ones though, because it's not to bad if ToffeeWeb is your only addiction, even if I'm slowly trying to wean myself off.
62 Posted 09/10/2019 at 22:03:06
No, I am not a superior person – just human like everyone else – but I have an opinion, just like you. Just because it doesn't sit well with you... Tough!
The modern-day players lead a great lifestyle and earn mega-money... so they either get on with it or they don't.
So, no – I don't buy the 'tiredness' shit because, if that is true, the whole bloody team must play for Brazil!!!
63 Posted 09/10/2019 at 22:12:07
The late Bill Shankly, when advised by one of his players of the pressure of the job, reminded him that working down a coal mine was pressure — playing football for a living is a privilege.
64 Posted 10/10/2019 at 02:27:23
Well at least we agree on something!
And l'm sorry for my petulance but, for me, Richarlison is playing as close to being a wing-back as l have seen. Even though Coleman is there, they hardly work in tandem, do they? Nobody has called them 'Richarleman'. It's not right. He's being run ragged.
I do enjoy your input from the Brazilian perspective, Jay.
65 Posted 10/10/2019 at 02:40:51
Suck it up and just put the ball in the back of the net — and defend when called upon.
66 Posted 10/10/2019 at 04:41:58
Good managers get the best out of players by managing them well. Rest, squad rotation and in game tactics / role of players.
Get on the phone and have a chat with the Brizillian management, build up an understanding to argue the case he's fatigued and should be treated / used sparingly.
All managers moan about this, along with a lot more. Just get on with it.
As for Richarlison he's a top player with a great attitude. Hopefully he will learn to curb some of his enthusiasm and improve his in game management of when to run and when to rest so he remains a better attacking threat.
67 Posted 10/10/2019 at 05:37:38
And not one single person in this thread is being asked to play 90 minutes a couple days after their international travel. Get a grip.
68 Posted 10/10/2019 at 06:00:31
"With all respect, Mr Miller, when you played you weren't under the pressure that we are today."
Miller replied, "Son, you wouldn't know what pressure is. Pressure is diving at 2000 feet with a Messerschmidt up your arse, this is just a game."
69 Posted 10/10/2019 at 06:45:02
70 Posted 10/10/2019 at 09:55:15
In a nutshell! It's a shame Silva can't find reasons for HIS poor form???
71 Posted 10/10/2019 at 10:16:26
Everton fans lament travel toll team takes on them under useless manager
72 Posted 10/10/2019 at 11:52:25
Players in the squad who have not travelled... why buy these players in the first place if you think the travelling is a problem? He has a reputation that's carried over that he only plays half a season — for £40M... just daft!!!!
73 Posted 10/10/2019 at 16:01:12
Nice to see Gana Gueye running around a football pitch again.
Nice also to see, as predicted, that Richarlison didn't start the game and only came on for the final 20 minutes for Firmino, but didn't show much as by then Senegal were well on top.
Brazil started well and scored with a well-worked goal, set up by Jesus, finished by Firmino, in the opening 10 minutes. Senegal equalised with a nailed on penalty on the stroke of half-time and that is how the game ended.
Other than that, not an awful lot to report. Both Neymar and the team look very anaemic and nowhere near their previous standards.
I'm hoping Richarlison again sees little game time in the second game in Singapore v Nigeria on Sunday.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, these games show the hold Nike has over the Brazilian football federation. The electronic pitch-side advertising promotes these games as 'Brazil's Global Tour'. How absurd is it to have a South American team and two African teams travel to Singapore for friendly games?
Thankfully, today's commentary revealed that even the Brazilian authorities refused Nike's request to play a couple of friendlies in Bangladesh for security reasons.
A 40,000 seater stadium in Singapore only half full...and the most prominent shirt on display in the crowd, I'm sad to report, was not the yellow of Brazil, or the green of Senegal, but the red of...I can't bring myself to complete the sentence.
74 Posted 10/10/2019 at 16:10:53
75 Posted 10/10/2019 at 16:36:23
76 Posted 10/10/2019 at 16:38:36
I say that because in 1995 my favourite player was Anders Limpar. Due to my age at the time, he'll always be my favourite player. I can only imagine the arguments that would have gone on about him back then. He was the most erratic player I've ever seen. A trait typical to wingers. But on his day, he could destroy sides, but you don't need me to tell you that.
Richarlison is a similar player. I think he's played alright this season. He's still in the top 10 tacklers in the whole Premier League. He's clearly tracking back and getting stuck in. You can't ask more from any player than they give 100%. He's tried hard but if it's not dropping right for him, and his crossing is off and his shooting wayward, then all he can do is keep working on it in training and hope he comes back to form.
He has tendency to fall over and roll around. He's not the only one and it's a common trait for forwards in South America. He has a tendency to play with a scowl on his face. He's been like that ever since I first saw him play for Watford. He never smiles on the pitch. He looks like he's pissed off and he walks in a weird way like he's got an injury. That's the way he is. Once the match is over, he's straight to the kids giving them his shirt and taking pictures. I think he's a great lad and he's our most effective player, probably our best player. Why do people like to attack our best players? Is it because we fear he'll leave and so we want to get in that we never liked him anyway? I just don't get it. If I was a teenager again, I think he'd be my favourite player.
77 Posted 10/10/2019 at 16:46:25
The press then drip stuff throughout the week. Everton choose to release interviews with the players one by one through the week. So at the moment, they are choosing 2 or 3 to defend the manager, and publish those stories during the week. But it's all done straight after the game.
These stories are made up from things put to the manager after the match. Loaded questions are asked so the Journo can try to have a story in mind, push the manager to give an answer he is expecting, and bingo his story is done.
It's very easy to ask these loaded questions and get the answer you want and to spin it in the way you want to. Do it myself all the time but for different reasons.
Anyway, bear in mind what you are reading here. Newspapers and Websites want to generate clicks and keep people coming back every day. Everton try to control the narrative themselves and that's done by their PR team and not Silva. If Silva is asked about Richarlison's travelling for international games, what do you want him to say, it's had no effect, he's in the form of his life? Or he's playing badly but there's no excuse?
78 Posted 10/10/2019 at 16:50:45
Interesting comparison with Limpar. A big problem for Richarlison is that Gomes, Schneiderli, etc create no openings. Bernard has some nice touches but few assists or goals. We waste every set piece with aimless balls across the box.
So from a fan's perspective, what's left? Richarlison. We know he can produce some magic so in the absence of any other creativity everyone is relying on him. It's not fair but it's the situation.
In contrast, Limpar didn't have as much scrutiny in Royle's first year because we had other options. Firstly, we had Hinchcliffe's deadly corners, we also had long balls punted from Unsie and Watson which caused chaos and led to goals.
Likewise, if you look at Giggsy at United. Another talented winger. But he had plenty of non-productive games. However, he wasn't the sole focus. They had Beckham's crosses, Scholes through balls, even Schmeichel's might punts. So Giggs could quietly have an off-day without anyone noticing. At Everton right now, it's pretty much a case of win or lose based on Richarlison have a worldy or not.
79 Posted 10/10/2019 at 16:51:51
80 Posted 10/10/2019 at 16:56:45
Fair points on the timing maybe he could say "I believe Firmino covers the same mileage and doesnt appear to affect him "maybe he could have said that,,
I have just gotten to a point where anything Marco says is suspect to me and I noted before he seem to not have a grasp of the word "embarrasing" in his vocabulary which is how he/we have performed this season but I have not yet heard him utter the word
It is plain to see that Silva can do little or no wrong in your eyes I think you have probably dug yourself so deep in to a hole when it comes to Marco that you have no choice but to keep on digging
It will all be over in a few weeks don't worry :)
PS I do fully agree with you on Richie though he is a good lad and will carve out a good living in the game
81 Posted 10/10/2019 at 17:13:51
I know literally dozens of players who have or will carve a good living out of the game and they where all average, or less than average players.
My own take on Richarlison, on what I have seen in his appearances for Everton is if we get what we paid for him, or slightly more, Id be happy with that.
There is plenty of room for improvement, plenty, although he has a lot of potential to be honest. Im still waiting to be convinced by him.
82 Posted 10/10/2019 at 17:26:55
83 Posted 10/10/2019 at 17:40:49
All the stats and performance indicators showed him to be one of the top ten best U21 year olds in European football, he never looked that impressive to me, I was only using my eyes to be honest.
I think you would be very foolish indeed to refuse £80M for him, doubt very much if Everton would.
84 Posted 10/10/2019 at 18:16:44
Hi Steve  I've just scrolled back to your post, and I notice that you have mentioned that, "Richarlison has a tendency to fall over and roll around, he's not the only one, it's a common trait in South America" I trust that because he's not the only one to do so, is not put forward as an excuse. I have no time, as you well know, for stats etc, but can you answer a question I've asked of many people without getting a satisfactory answer, "Who coaches the coaches?
85 Posted 10/10/2019 at 18:17:38
Was meant as what it is and not back handed at all, I probably sit somewhere in the middle between yourself and Steve , I genuinely think he will be a big name in world football and may even play for 1 of the 2 big Spainish giants
Whether we will keep him depends on where we are as a club, but he has yet to prove it, saying that drop him into any big European side who are playing well and have a plan and he would flourish I would say
86 Posted 10/10/2019 at 18:32:31
Like with any job, they have a licence, as I do for mine, and you have to put in some many training hours each year to stay up to date. Some renowned coaches like Bielsa, Mourinho, and Guardiola take these courses and pass on their ideas. Theres a fair few examples that are filmed and on YouTube with illustrious coaches in the audience.
I was personally fascinated to see how Bielsa teaches what appears to be spontaneous movement. How he does all this drills to make certain movements happen and how his players can then know to get the ball and anticipate those rehearsed movements and plonk a ball into space where a player will suddenly appear.
If you read the Unsworth article, written before he took a job with us, youll see he was coaching B level coaches.
87 Posted 10/10/2019 at 18:51:49
The mind boggles at the realisation that Jackie Milburn and his like, could have been so much improved with a little bit of coaching, I feel cheated and it's adding to my current depression.
ps: Perhaps we could discuss this subject at the next get-together.?
88 Posted 10/10/2019 at 19:02:56
89 Posted 10/10/2019 at 19:18:18
I'll try and find it, it was called something like the '74 Leopards of Zaire.
90 Posted 10/10/2019 at 19:24:30
I often wonder what they spend ten minutes on the touchline telling a sub that wasnt covered in training.
It is turning the game anaemic.
91 Posted 10/10/2019 at 19:26:01
92 Posted 10/10/2019 at 23:43:35
I think it's good for anyone to have a hobby. Someone who takes time out and learns something new, new formations, tactics, stats etc, but in spewing dissertation length rebuttals with an underlying sense of trying to belittle mere mortals who don't understand or to try and pass their opinion off as “science" or "fact” does little to change the indisputable fact that football is a simple game, made complicated by NFL playbook numptys.
Now, just imagine if the main coach and the majority of the backroom staff doesn't count English as his first language, the forward coach has a thick Scottish accent barely legible to an Englishman... The majority of the first team squad doesn't count English as their first language, just imagine. Imagine. How fucking confusing all this tactical “genius” is. Some managers and coaches try to be too clever and it never works, now combine this with a language barrier. It's not rocket science.
93 Posted 11/10/2019 at 08:01:25
94 Posted 11/10/2019 at 09:12:03
96 Posted 11/10/2019 at 13:34:32
Gray sits down pre match with his salt and pepper shakers setup on a small table and running through the various scenarios for the benefit of big Joe,
"When he moves here, the left back can utilize the space here" etc etc, Joe looked at him with a rye smile and said "That's all well and good until you throw a ball into the mix!"
A simple game complicated by fools, I think Clough said.
Our current crop opitimize this with their high optima stats for doing everything except winning or scoring goals, I also feel Silva has used this to defend himself claiming we had all the "moments"
Truth is the opposition are handing us the initiative as opposed to us taking it, Opta can't measure "nouse" "cunning" clever play, who's running the fastest and passing the most... fine, but that's all it's worth for me.
97 Posted 11/10/2019 at 13:47:59
(That's not a Tony Hart quote, btw!!!)
98 Posted 11/10/2019 at 14:05:37
Possibly because he actually hadn't covered the opposition so well. Maybe they are not doing what he expected them to... Maybe he's just not as good as he and others think he is.
For sure, since he arrived, changing things after kick-off has not been one of his strengths... in fact, it seems it's a major weakness.
A bit more flexibility might help him.
99 Posted 11/10/2019 at 15:15:08
But will you travel in a coach, John, when you meet to discuss the coach's role and whether there is a need for coaches at all. ?
Perhaps a taxi would suffice... and leave the Coach, coach's, coaches whatever at home.
Something for you to think about at your next "get-together".
100 Posted 11/10/2019 at 20:37:53
Like all humans, he suffers from jet lag and fatigue!
Someone commented well it doesn't seem to affect Man City's Ederson and Jesus, maybe because one plays in goal and the other warms the bench not running over 10 km every game.
101 Posted 11/10/2019 at 20:42:39
I was kidding on the Zaire bloke, with a self parody he did on the Skinner and Baddiel show in mind.
102 Posted 12/10/2019 at 08:45:04
103 Posted 12/10/2019 at 10:55:30
104 Posted 12/10/2019 at 12:00:06
And Clough's response was "mark Stan Bowles, that's all you need to know about QPR."
105 Posted 12/10/2019 at 12:15:15
106 Posted 12/10/2019 at 12:45:34
On a more serious note, Alan, don't you think that the talent that gets youngsters to any football club, is being stifled by blackboard/whiteboard instructions. I appreciate that there has to be a degree of organisation, but I also believe that moments of individual brilliance that thrill the fans, can't be coached. they are [in my opinion] natural to the player concerned and he should be encouraged rather than discouraged, but then again I don't have any certificates or badges to prove my knowledge of the game [or lack of it]. I see no reason as to why I'm allowed into the ground, other than they'll take anybody's money.
107 Posted 12/10/2019 at 14:43:28
Eric #105: I wish! Who the heck can afford business class (beyond I assume professional footballers as you're insinuating)? Regardless, jet lag is a very real thing and the ability to sleep on the plane can actually make it worse, especially going back East (which is the direction one flies back to England from Brazil).
108 Posted 12/10/2019 at 17:18:16
My uncle was at Wembley that day and remembered it as the greatest game of football he had ever seen. Losing 3-1 to Bolton, Matthews, together with a hat-trick by Stan Morterson, completely turned the game on its head to win 4-3.
With great anticipation, I sat down to watch the game with my uncle. At the final whistle, as the closing credits rolled, my uncle and I sat in silence which he was first to break:
"Well that wasn't as great as I remembered it." And as someone who had never viewed the game before, I understood what he meant. I felt – and still feel – pangs of guilt for getting him the video and effectively shattering his idealised memory.
Why so? Because, in my uncle's own words, the game was incredibly slow-paced with only sporadic moments of skill and excitement...in contrast to the modern-day game we were now both watching at that time.
Now I'm categorically not saying that each and every era hasn't produced great players or teams, or that a great player of a bygone era – if born, say, into this era – could not be a great player in today's game. Great players with innate skills would blossom in any era.
What I will say, quoting the wry line of American author Peter de Vries, is:
'Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.'
I would also add that the notion that modern coaching is somehow stifling individual brilliance or spontaneity doesn't stand up to inspection based on what I see every single week (although, sadly, not always at Everton).
The technique, the fitness, the pace of the modern game has reached astonishing levels.
To compare football to another favourite sport of mine – cricket – the advent of one day cricket has led to incredible innovations in batting, bowling and fielding. We now see strokes, deliveries and acrobatic fielding that defies gravity and physics as commonplace that were unseen and unheard of just 5, 10,15 years ago. They have enriched the game and made it an even greater spectacle.
Now it was individual players who first innovated such moves by simply thinking 'what if..?' and then trying it in a competitive game. Repetitive practice – and coaching – continued to hone and improve such audacity so it succeeds more than it fails in the white heat of the game.
Modern day football and its innovations are similar. There are plays and moves by individual players which make your jaw drop.
As to the charge 'Who coaches the coaches?' I think it's a facile question. Life evolves. New technology, methods, understanding of any subject matter is in constant flux and change. The candle and oil lantern was replaced by electricity. Would you call a candle-maker today to re-wire your house, or a qualified electrician?
And as with every walk of life, there are good and bad exponents of their trade amongst football coaches as there are among electricians. But to imply that any and all coaching is bad and to claim individual skill is being oppressed due to over-coaching is a non-sequitor based on a false premise, IMO.
109 Posted 12/10/2019 at 17:52:09
I also marvel at some of today's players with their ability and lots of it makes me gasp at the brilliance and audacity of the moves; at the same time, I've never seen so many poor passes by so many players in practically every game.
Some of the games are outstanding and a pleasure to watch, I'd argue a lot more of the games bore me (at least) to tears, due mainly to the dozens of backward and sideways passes, last night's England game was a good example. I'd put a lot of this to down to the negative tactics of many of today's coaches.
The game has speeded up in the play, but is constantly slowed down by the referees whistle for a lot fouls given that were fair tackles in the past.
Players are instructed to keep hold of the ball at all costs, rarely try an ambitious one when keeping possession by going backwards or sideways is the safer option.
Football is a lot faster today than yesteryear and can be a lot better to watch, not always though Jay, it is, I think a lot more negative than it once was, down to coaches I'd say.
Anyway Jay I've wrote a belly full here, to finish, although it has always been called the “Mathews Final” and I don't begrudge him that, ask your uncle what he thought of Ernie Taylor's contribution that day, he was the player who constantly fed Mathews and had a great game.
Finally Jay, although Morterson scored a hat-trick that day, it was never recognised as a hat trick until seventeen years after the game, before it was finally given to Stan, one of the goals was always credited to Harold Hassell who played for Bolton, an own goal.
110 Posted 12/10/2019 at 18:06:48
On the matter of the speed of today's game; last year I saw a replay of the 1965 FA Cup Final between Leeds & Liverpool and Ron Yeats put everything he had behind a clearance on the edge of his own penalty area and it barely crossed the halfway line. Compare that to goalkeepers today knocking it from one end to the other with relative ease and barely ever kicking it out of their hands.
111 Posted 12/10/2019 at 18:12:03
112 Posted 12/10/2019 at 18:46:52
Dave, I tell Josh consistently, that he can [at the age of 15], do more with a ball than some players of the past, I've never claimed that football was better in the past, but what I have said, and I will say it again now, is that I found it more enjoyable. I appreciate that we do look back through rose-tinted glasses, but if it gives us comfort where's the harm in that?
113 Posted 12/10/2019 at 19:46:27
Whilst my own work in football is in the amateur sector, over the year's I have had the pleasure to work with all ages up to adults and both sexes.
I have to agree coach's can confuse the issue and player's by being too clever. I think the problem arises from the way the badges are taught and certain criteria have to be met or you will fail these courses.
I am now upto Uefa B so I will have to meet the tutors criteria, show I have proper control over session's which have an aim also. Your planners have to be right, in order, completion of player profile's and your solutions to these have to show you work using the "4 corners principle" as well as being able to produce under pressure to meet the player's demands firstly, not your own.
There is much that goes on unseen to achieve these awards, it's NOT easy folks!
For me the game is simple-play the way you face, pass quickly, move, get your best player's on the ball often and work till you drop. The biggest issues I see continually is lack of effort and not committing to work rate, plus every team struggles on transition.
I think I read from a book about Alan Ball that he said the "most difficult pass in football is the simple one". I have not forgotten this when I coach and constantly urge player's to do the same.
A great,insightful description of the game by an amazing one touch player, who I believe would stroll the game today.
114 Posted 12/10/2019 at 21:43:04
And a lot of truth in your own post also.
Like yourself I also marvel at some of todays players and their ability. And again like yourself Im left incredulous at times at how poor even the simplest passing is at times. A lot of it not down to the pace of the game, the restricted time and space to make the pass, but simply poor basic execution in unpressured situations. It has happened A LOT with Everton players down the years, no matter who the manager is!!!
The tiki-taka football introduced by Cryuff at Barcelona and refined by subsequent managers, whilst impressive on one level for its technique, player proximity and execution, designed to exhaust the opposition into submission, at some point under Guardiola lost its charm for me and became a tedious watch, so again I agree with you on that front with regard to possession football. Guardiola's City is a much better watch for me.
One aspect I perhaps diverge from your view is on the physical side of the game. Maybe it has tilted too far, but I fully support the crackdown on the kind of physical assaults the likes of Chopper Harris and his ilk built their reputations on which, if enacted on the streets of Liverpool city centre on a Saturday night would have you collared by a bizzie and passing the rest of the evening in a local pen 'til next morning!
Whilst there is merit in what you say about the negative way some managers set up their teams (probably due to the stakes and any threat of relegation being so high), I think that you equally have many coaches who take a bolder approach to how they send their teams out. Alas, you have to go back some years that Everton has hired someone capable of consistently playing that way effectively.
As for my uncle, sadly, he is no longer around to ask, but he was always honest enough to acknowledge that (even back in the 1950s!) the 'Mathews Final' moniker was an invention of the media 'cos it made the best story. He always said Matthews actually didn't play particularly well that day and that Ernie Taylor was indeed the man conducting things from midfield (or should I say wing half? inside forward?). He also thought Morterson merited greater recognition than he received.
Just one final Everton-related (possibly non-PC) question to you Dave (or John Mac may know). The man who scored Blackpool's winning goal - the South African Bill Perry. Was he coloured, or black?
I ask because I'm curious to know if our own Mike Trebilcock was indeed the first 'non-caucasian' or not (Jeez! Coining the right phrase without giving unintended offence can be tricky at times) to score in an FA Cup Final in our 1966 triumph.
115 Posted 12/10/2019 at 22:05:58
116 Posted 12/10/2019 at 22:54:55
Surely as part of the transfer negotiations for new players to Everton,, all requirements are considered?
If the players were taking the ferry not a flying boat, or ship, fair play, but this to me, is weakness and vppp, and warrants the clubs professionalism in player selection, at the highest level. in Everton FC.
No whinging elsewhere, as far as I know? For too much travelling. So as its been part of players in the Europena game for decades, I dont see this issue.
117 Posted 12/10/2019 at 22:57:56
Hi Dennis  it was called the Matthews Final, because the media viewed it as romantic, Matthews was 38 years old, and it was thought that it was his last chance of gaining a Cup Winners medal. Although I was 15 at the time I remember it well. Stan Mortenson was later credited with scoring a hat-trick but as Dave  states, one of the goals was an own goal, a shot was going wide when it was diverted into his own goal by Harold Hassalll. How the FA came to their decision I'll never know, If you ever get the chance to view the game you will see that it was in no way a hat-trick.
118 Posted 13/10/2019 at 12:25:55
Regarding coaches, there were some who made attacking football their priority; more, I'd say, who leaned too far to the defensive side of the game. Bill Perry, going by today's calling, was black, as was Mike Trebilcock. It's hard to get by in the PC world today without offending someone when no offence is even thought of never mind meant.
Your uncle knew his football!!!
119 Posted 16/10/2019 at 14:47:33
First of all, apologies for the lateness of my reply, but we've just had a mega-Catholic festival weekend in Brazil and, married to a good Brazilian Catholic girl, we've been busy with family and the church!
You both confirmed what my Blackpool relies always told me, that Bill Perry was indeed black, or coloured, and certainly not white. Knowing that, it always puzzles me that in all histories I've read about the FA Cup, our own Mike Trebilock continues to be credited with scoring the first goal by a non-white player in a cup final.
Back to the topic of the original thread - Richarlison and his travelling - due to afore-mentioned Catholic festivals I didn't see the Brazil-Nigeria game live (went out at 9am Sunday morning here), but only caught highlights and read the reports.
Richarlison came on for the disappointing Everton Santos at half time and by all accounts had a good game, galvanising the team a bit. Gabigol, who I have been trumpeting, replaced Firmino for the last 30 minutes and also impressed. I read today an (alleged) interest by Crystal Palace in signing Gabigol in January.
Brazil overall, since they won the Copa America, that's now four friendly games with 3 draws and 1 defeat. They really do look bereft of inspiration. They even take to lobbing hopeful high balls forward in the dying minutes of games which is most un-Brazilian like.
And Dave, an update for you on young Jesus at Flamengo. The Brazilian league did not suspend their games for the internationals and Flamengo played twice whilst the national side was in Singapore.
With Gabigol absent, Flamengo played Jesus for almost the full 90 minutes in the first of those games and he scored the third goal. He didn't feature at all in the second game, so Flamengo continues to handle him with care. See his goal here as this link (about two minutes in).
I fancy you will enjoy the comedic defending that led to his goal, or maybe not as it will remind you of Everton's backline at the moment!
120 Posted 16/10/2019 at 15:22:21
Regarding the link you provided, my take on it is [something else I've always maintained] that supporters of the team conceding a goal view it as a defensive failing, while the opposition fans will revel in how the scorer of the goal eluded his marker, the same goal different reactions.
121 Posted 16/10/2019 at 15:48:53
I miss the tackling but there's a fine line. Call me a luddite but I used to enjoy watching boring boring Arsenal under George Graham. Partly, because they stepped up in Everton's demise to challenge Liverpool. But I also loved Winterburn, Bould and co. with their endless last ditch slide tackles frustrating Rush and company. I didn't view them as dirty while I hated watching Wimbledon because I always felt they actually wanted to maim opponents as opposed to making "full blooded tackles."
122 Posted 16/10/2019 at 16:21:00
The goal Reiner scored was comedy defending but the lad never panicked and rushed his effort, I think he knew his surroundings and waited for the ball to come down before he slotted it home. I wish he would have scored one like the oppositions equaliser or Flamingos second, but they all count no matter the quality.
Kieran (121), yes George Grahams Arsenal was a well organised and disciplined defensive team and I loved them that night at Anfield. Ive got a post card, somewhere in the house, from George thanking me my support and best wishes for a victory forArsenal. I also advised him to use a young striker that night, as a surprise element, not well known then, Campbell, wisely he ignored me, he turned out to be a saviour for us a few years later and scored the winner at Anfield for us the last time we won there. Keiran, not sure I would have liked to watch them every week, then again they were winners so I would have found excuses for them.
123 Posted 17/10/2019 at 14:31:02
The games are coming thick and fast in the Brazilian league as they play twice a week from here until Nov-Dec to catch up for the 5-6 weeks the league was paused for the Copa America in June.
Fresh from their 2-0 win away to the newly crowned Brazilian Cup winners Athletico Paranaense on Sunday, Flamengo had a long away trip to Fortaleza, bumping around the relegation zone.
It was an interesting selection by the Flamengo manager, given the original subject of this thread: he immediately selected Gabigol who would have had less than 48 hours back in the country having returned from Singapore with the Brazilian squad. 'Our' boy Reinier also played the full 90, which is just as well as you will read and see from the linked video.
Fortaleza took the lead with a VAR penalty. Looks harsh to me for two reasons. The defender was actually standing outside the penalty area, and their was no 'unatural' positioning of his arm that the ball hit. Also check around the 1:30 mark of the video. The goal bound shot that beats the keeper, but cleared by a defender behind him is from Reinier Jesus.
Just seven minutes left on the clock when Flamengo got a penalty of their own, duly converted by the goal machine that is Gabigol. I would really like to see his 'boxer weigh-in pose' goal celebration in the blue of Everton one day.
With barely a minute left of normal time, who pops up with the winner header, but 'our boy' Reinier. Game salvaged, Flamengo still 8 points clear at the top of the table.
His manager Jorge Jesus is handling Jesus well. Giving him game time against weaker opposition and getting a return on it - a couple of assists and three goals in six games (370 playing minutes).
Flamengo has a BIG derby game this weekend - the FLA-FLU! Famengo v Fluminese (Richarlison's old team). I fully expect the manager to bench the youngster and maybe only give him game time if the game is secure in the closing stages.
Here's the link to last night's highlights:
And a final PS. The festival - known as the Cirio - is a truly amazing event.
Envisage 1-2 MILLION (not thousands, MILLIONS) people packed as tight as sardines, following a statue of Mother Mary along a 4km route - a route which you could normally complete in a comfortable stroll in an hour - for anything between 9-12 hours.
High octane stuff.
124 Posted 17/10/2019 at 14:43:53
125 Posted 17/10/2019 at 15:09:41
126 Posted 17/10/2019 at 15:39:11
The mitigating circumstances that the ref in this instance didn't is (maybe) because all sorts of shenanigans goes on in Brazilian games. There may have been a completely innocent reason the second ball ended up on the pitch at the time. Equally, it could have been a deliberate ploy by one of the home team's ball boys behind the game.
Here is a great comic example of just how extreme 'outside interference' can be in live games. This was an important game, deciding who would go through to a promotion play-off semi-final, but astonishingly the result was allowed to stand and the offending team won through.
127 Posted 17/10/2019 at 16:37:08
I also noted that, earlier in the game, the referee signalled for TV assistance, which he received; but, in the goal-scoring incident, there was a distinct absence of the dreaded VAR intervention.
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