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1 Posted 23/09/2019 at 16:40:41
Give me a team of limited footballers who show some passion over most of these any day. Davies, Calvert-Lewin, Coleman. who else is there?
2 Posted 23/09/2019 at 16:44:22
3 Posted 23/09/2019 at 16:44:55
4 Posted 23/09/2019 at 16:48:43
I agree with the issues you identify. But, we are in the same boat as most clubs. If you're truly good enough to play for a so-called "big" club but join Everton, then obviously money is key. If you aspire to play for a "big" club but aren't quite there yet then Everton is a potential stepping zone. There aren't a lot of players who say "It's my dream to play for a once great but now mid-table Everton, and if I become a true star then I plan to stay here forever."
Even homegrown "true blues" like Rooney, Barkley and Jeffers seem to get their heads turned the minute they get a bit of publicity. So I don't know how we avoid this issue.
With that said, what we can do is tighten the purse strings. Stepping stone or not, if you come here, this is your wage, we are not paying over the odds based on "future potential." Neither are we agreeing to "buy out" clauses which like marriage pre-nups should be a huge red flag. The other thing we need to do is stop going around bigging up the club with talk of new stadiums and champions league. That all sends a message that we are big bollers and inevitably clubs and agents play to that flashy hype when charging us over the odds for players. In contrast, Spurs always make it plain they are tight wads. They get good players but since the Bale sale summer, they have refused to pay over the odds. We on the other hand have bitten peoples arms off for terrible deals time and again.
5 Posted 23/09/2019 at 16:56:23
Some of the records Everton hold, no derby win since 2010, no win at Anfield since 1999, no win at Arsenal or Chelsea since the mid 1990s, its just a complete and utter joke for an established ever present top flight club.
One, yes one, Cup Final appearance since 1995.
One top 4 finish since the late 1980s.
There is something fundamentally wrong at this Football Club lets be brutally honest.
For too many years now its been happy to plod along just “being safe”, just allowing Liverpool to always be the main achievers in the city.
We are basically the modern day Coventry City, a middle ranked team that offers zero hope and will probably eventually get things so badly wrong that relegation will darken the door.
6 Posted 23/09/2019 at 16:59:12
I find the 'mercenary' argument a bit of an irrelevant sideshow. We have little to offer players except money and possibilities they may get elsewhere. If our on and off-pitch management had some purpose, strategy and competence, I'd say these players would be buzzing. We've recruited wastefully and haphazardly, leaving us with players we neither want nor can sell.
It never ceases to amaze me how football clubs spend millions on players, then skimp on the guy that leads and manages them.
We need leaders in the club, leaders in the dugout, then maybe we'll get somewhere on the pitch.
8 Posted 23/09/2019 at 17:06:15
"There is something fundamentally wrong at this Football Club lets be brutally honest."
9 Posted 23/09/2019 at 17:12:01
On a more serious note I think Rodger has addressed a few valid observations, with his mercenary/stepping stone classification of our players.
Many of these players, and the Manager, are enjoying enormous, but not necessarily commensurate salaries, in proportion to their productivity, in a month, they could buy a decent house that most people would strive 25 years to pay off a Mortgage on.
Before anyone starts beating any drums, I appreciate they have to pay Tax, Insurance etc, but with a savvy Accountant that can be minimised dramatically. You may be thinking, what point am I trying to make here?
Well it is that lack of commitment, by many of the players, to the Club we all love and have supported in most cases, all of our lives. We have no-one that I know of, who would do anything on the pitch, for the badge, and run through a brick wall in the cause of Everton.
10 Posted 23/09/2019 at 17:13:03
11 Posted 23/09/2019 at 17:16:37
Id say that Coleman, Davies and Kenny might run through a brick wall but their demolition skills are greater than their football prowess.
12 Posted 23/09/2019 at 17:29:57
This is the way of the (premier League) world now and we really need strong leadership from the top down.
It is frightening to see that Moshiri has allowed Kenwright to remain as Chairman of the club and rule the roost over transfers. I will never forget his "I talk to Walter (Davy, Roberto) every day statement and thinking why is he interfering with the football management of the club.
Now we have the really experienced football person (DBB) as CEO another Kenwright accolyte. It always amazes me that some people have the wherewithal to become billionaires and then blow it all on mismanaging football clubs.
The minute Mosh took over the club he should have cleared all the decks and had a plan with a team to execute it not try to build on the mediocrity that preceded him.
The Rooney transfer tells you all you need to know about why we will not succeed as currently run.
13 Posted 23/09/2019 at 17:35:37
First, there is no such thing as a club below the top echelon that isn't made up of a combination of Mercenaries and Stepping Stoners; every mid-table club in every league is made up of them, and on successful clubs they do strike a tune. And even at the PSGs and Barcas and Juves, you have Neymars who want to move on from one top club to another.
And that points out your second problem -- do you really want a squad made up of players who see Everton, a mid-table club, as the pinnacle of their careers? What that would produce is a squad that doesn't have the talent to elevate to the top 4 or 6. Of course we occasionally luck into a top-class talent who adores the badge and never wants to leave the club -- for example, Baines at his peak was one of the top 10 LBs in the world and never looked to move on as far as we know -- but how many of those are there? A mid-table club built around loyal mid-table-quality players is destined to eternal mid-table-ness, isn't it?
I believe ambition, both financial and career-wise, is a powerful driver for top players. And top talent working together for success is what wins silverware, not long-term love for the badge.
14 Posted 23/09/2019 at 17:51:45
Jonjo is doing his best in the Bundesliga, but that Wall has already been knocked down! :-)
15 Posted 23/09/2019 at 18:14:19
If you hope to join a bigger Club you have to give your all and prove you're worthy of stepping up. Didn't Gana do that ? Digne will likewise go on to bigger and better. That's the way it works. So long as they give their all with us.
16 Posted 23/09/2019 at 18:14:38
It's painful to be a blue, I don't live in the city and can imagine what it is like for those that do.
Does the pressure get to the players? It depends on individual mentality. There are some who are motivated by the weight of pressure and expectation, certainly Liverpool players thrive on it and they are likely advised by the club to expect it( or get out). I think we can be certain that our neighbors ship anyone out who doesn't perform to their standards, no room for sentimentality. If a signing doesn't work out, he's gone, no ifs and buts. I don't recall a Liverpool player past or present gagging to leave the club or putting the club down. The club wouldn't stand for it. We on the other hand, allow both to go unchecked.
We have some good and some average talent who with strong and passionate leadership, produce winning results but very few will waste their short careers at a club with lower levels of ambition. Barkley is a good recent example.
When I look at our backroom staff on the bench I get a sense of what the atmosphere is 'backstage'. Ambivalent and stale. I would imagine that the hierarchy give out a similar vibe.
The club needs a thorough shake up from top to bottom. I know this has been said before but that's where the root cause lies. Respect and ambition is driven from top to bottom and it's lacking and has been for decades. Once that is achieved the playing staff will follow suit.!
17 Posted 23/09/2019 at 18:35:49
Money can be the root of all evil with no plan. It takes owners of football clubs decades to build their fortune. Takes years to lose it buying a football club. Why? To be loved by the fans? Again what other industry would you pay out hundreds of millions of pounds to get nothing back?
The senior management team at Everton have brought no plan? Only last 18 months have they thought a new stadium has to happen to sustain spending like we are. Our new owner has brought hope to us all but a sense of realism must come now. Sacking management teams costs a fortune. Yes we have wasted money on players but we can try and move them on. Some won't go and who can blame them.
Arsenal football club have billionaires on the board but keep a tight lid on transfers. They won't be bullied by other clubs with transfer fees. New stadium means doubling match day revenue. Season ticket prices increasing and twenty years of champions league football. Still arsenal won't go over the top with transfers and if the fans don't like it, bye bye. The arsenal board set out a plan and stuck to it.
Our owner is not a young man and already spent 500 million on our club. It's not sustainable. We need stability now. Stick with silva. His objective is to keep us in the league till the stadium is built and this is our budget for the next three years. If we look like relegation is a possibility sack him and get a experienced premiership manager in but the budget remains the same.
Sadly we are years behind the top four, six if we want to be depressing but a logical plan must happen. Everton football club has been faithful to the fans with season ticket prices. It's our turn to be patient. Those at the top of the league won't be there for ever. Step by step and our place at the table will come.
18 Posted 23/09/2019 at 18:41:05
Players can still put their all into performances even if they have their eyes on being elsewhere eventually, or like the money. More important is the right blend of players skill sets and the right tactics to get the best out of them.
For example, Sigurdsson is good at making space and having a shot, and playing through balls for runners. Yet invariably our tactics keep 2 midfielders deep, and the runners are out wide. The only options are out wide, which negates one of Sigurdssons best attributes. Ideally hed have midfielders running past him into the box, allowing space for him to have a shot, or play someone in on goal.
If you look at the other successful teams in the league, they mostly play with one holding midfielder, allowing more options and space to be created when they go forward. Instead our forward moves break down or go sideways and we lose possession, inviting the other team to attack.
We need to be braver, and Im not talking about the playground tactics of chucking everyone up front when were losing.
19 Posted 23/09/2019 at 19:16:34
As I think all top flight footballers are mercenaries and stepping-stoners.
The fault lies, for my money, in the lack of clear expectation from the board, now from Brands.
Everton have the resources and talent to have a squad which should finish no lower than 7th, consistently.
Managers should be told clearly and definitively that is the bar they need to achieve or theyre out.
That pressure which its commensurate with the pay and ambition should be used by the manger and transferred to the players.
It should be tangible and obvious that you cannot slip up and actually thats what will drive performances. Other clubs have those standards and sack managers based on them.
You cannot have a corporate or commercial strategy on a team which will bob between 7th and 14th.
We have a reputation for being soft on managers, patience is by and large a bygone practice.
Its time we get a premium manager and set a standard we keep to.
20 Posted 23/09/2019 at 19:17:04
The team that ended the game was the most expensive in our history – £317M. And on what? A dodgy keeper, a slow centre back, an unproven centre back, a defensively fragile left back, a £35M Arsenal reject, a £20M 19-year-old etc etc
None of the team we ended up with on Saturday had been with the club 3 seasons.
Delph was the last person out of the dressing room at 6:30, Richarlison was out the door at 5:16.
Moshiri and his money has ripped the soul from this club. We'd be better off putting Unsworth back in charge and giving him 3 seasons to try and rescue what is left of our club.
Everton have always been a team that doesn't give in, that fights to the end, that shows passion when the skill isn't there. We as fans buy into this passion, that's why we argue and debate the way we do. We aren't Spurs or West Ham who want their pretty football, we aren't glory hunters like Liverpool or Man Utd, we don't care about fancy names coming from afar like Chelsea or Arsenal.
We want pride, we want passion and we build from there, top it off with skill and get in everyone's faces until we win. We're nowhere without that pride and passion, we're exactly where we are now. Useless mercenaries who couldn't give a shit about the club or the fans that pay their massively inflated wages that they'll get nowhere else.
Do we still think that Brands is the messiah? I've got serious doubts.
21 Posted 23/09/2019 at 19:24:00
Arsenal are in transition, Man Utd are a diabolical mess, Spurs flatter to deceive, Chelsea have lost Hazard and have a transfer ban.
Yet, season after season, we cock it up and miss our chance. When the top teams finally sort their houses out we will rue these missed opportunities.
Looks like Leicester and West Ham have a good chance this year of giving it a go and good luck to them, whereas we get what we always deserve... fuck all.
Silva is under pressure after 6 games because, despite having one whole season with the squad and a proper pre-season, it looks like we've gone backwards. We have played two newly promoted teams and got properly spanked both times its not good enough. We currently have premiership giants Sheffield Utd, Southampton, Burnley, Crystal Palace, Bournemouth & West Ham above us.
People say give Silva time but let me ask you this, would the other team across the road – you know, the team that actually has pride and win things – actually put up with this state of affairs? No fucking way.
22 Posted 23/09/2019 at 19:42:37
23 Posted 23/09/2019 at 19:59:25
The Everton team was;
Wright, Hibbert (Osman 77), Yobo, Weir, Nuno Valente, Arteta, Cahill, Neville, Davies, Beattie, McFadden.
Subs Not Used: Krøldrup, Bent, Turner, Kilbane
'Bolton condemned struggling Everton to a humiliating defeat at Goodison Park' – sounds familiar, doesn't it.
24 Posted 23/09/2019 at 20:07:38
As such, most of our rivals also have the very same “stepping-stoners” and “mercenaries” playing for them but have managers getting them to perform better on the pitch through better tactics, inspiration, discipline and the other arts of “managing”.
An absolute nonsense of an article!
25 Posted 23/09/2019 at 20:11:29
There are hints from former players which allude to the club being run like a run down holiday camp. Finch Farm serves up a fry up instead of the sort of diet top athletes expect and according to Barkley, he was never properly coached. Our former captain berated our then recently signed striker Lukaku, for stating that top 4 should be our ambition. These are just small sound bites. Visualize the reality of joining our club with optimism only to have a dose of parochial reality hit head on from within the club and the media. Please, bin that ancient relic of a song 'grand old team' with its references to the 'other lot'. It's embarrassing and symptomatic of our inferiority complex.
Today is the first time I've posted although I've read ToffeeWeb for many years. I never thought I would get to the point of sheer frustration.
26 Posted 23/09/2019 at 20:12:32
Some people will say that all clubs sell players, which is true. But top clubs do not sell their best players in their prime without first securing equivalent or better replacements. We sell our best players in a way that leaves a vacuum, which cannot be filled by players with just 'potential' or limited achievement.
Lukaku and Gana were sold whilst still in contract, leaving gaps very difficult to fill. We could not retain Zouma, because we don't achieve enough. Oddly, Lukaku and Zouma might have been better off staying here from the perspective of their form profile, but we wanted a profit from Lukaku, without using the money well, and Chelsea was obviously more attractive to Zouma.
Unless we start challenging at the top THIS SEASON, this trend is very likely to continue with the likes of Digne and Richarlison leaving for better pastures sooner rather than later. We really need to start showing significant and consistent improvement now.
27 Posted 23/09/2019 at 22:15:29
The other and probably the most important factor is support /management in the club that support the manager. Whether it's the buy or selling of players and the contracts agreed, the training, mentoring, monitoring and medical support staff, and the actual management of the business side of the Club. Here also you have different classes, similar to the player's classes, with the addition of the long-term support staff on longer-term contracts, the one Club people.
At Everton, in the support and management area there are few changes, even when the Club was taken over, as Jay (#12) has pointed out, except Brands, Head Coach, and one Director.
The reason Everton appear to be a hamster wheel is that, no matter how much they appear to progress, they will crash down to the lowest common denominator, which is the level performance of all these classes, determined by their collective and individual motivation and goals.
I know you cite the start of Moshiri money as the start, but the performance in the Premier League and Cups hasn't been much better prior to that.
Change is needed, throughout the Club!
28 Posted 23/09/2019 at 00:01:15
One person bought them and the other can't coach them.
Who hired them?
Who gave him the spare remote control to the train set. Conflicting signals, no clear vision.
One fucked up Club.
29 Posted 24/09/2019 at 00:22:53
Kevin @20, my gut instinct agrees with you, especially after watching the Howard's Way trailer this evening, but unfortunately I don't think it's that simple anymore. Look at Man U and see how the romantic dream can turn sour so quickly. Ole came in with an answer to all their prayers but suddenly they find themselves back in crisis and regretting their impetuosity at having jumped back into bed with an appealing old flame.
31 Posted 24/09/2019 at 01:07:16
Moshiri cannot be happy at squandering the millions he has (and his net spend is not so stonking in fairness) but he must surely be pondering, as a professional accountant, as to what/who is responsible for the squandering/culture/owner-management of the club he's now solely responsible for.
If the Mosh needs a clue, the fault/s are hiding in plain sight at the top of his current boardroom, permeating right through the "comfy culture" that is the chief "achievement" of Finch Farm since the fucking place was created.
Action is needed, but sacking the manager is like sticking a plaster on a gangrenous wound Farhad. Wake up and get real PLEASE.
32 Posted 24/09/2019 at 01:11:10
I personally believe that it is our lack of a leader with a plan that is important. A manager who has a system and someone who is willing to change and adapt as the game changes.
That team of players that we have has no doubt talent, you can see that they are talented (most of them anyway) but they have no structure, no game plan, no self belief and that all lies with the manager and training team. Ive never seen a team cross a ball so badly? And yet Ive never seen a team have so few players in the box for when a cross comes in?
We can go on about the likes of Coleman but Im sorry to say but us clinging on to him like we did with Neville, Cahill and Dunc is what is holding us back. We have a World Cup winner sat on the bench because we named Coleman captain. Now dont get me wrong, I love Coleman, I love his passion and his drive and also love his love for the club but if we want to progress then I think we need to look a few years from now and that means replacing him.
Players need to play for positions, if they dont perform then drop them and give someone else that spot. The likes of Gylfi has been crap all season but still makes the teamsheet.
This all boils down to what I said above, the role of the manager and his staff. Have we competed with big teams for Martinez, Koeman, Sam or Silva? No, because big teams dont want them. If we have the money then we should be bringing the likes of Mourihno in and tell him to build our side. There was a time when the likes of Revie, Clough and Robson (all linked with us) would have taken the Everton job but went for the likes of Gordon Lee. Nothing changes when we always settle for a lesser skilled manager. Oh and whilst were at it, let Dunc go, his training skills have offered nothing!!!
33 Posted 24/09/2019 at 01:58:54
34 Posted 24/09/2019 at 03:57:17
35 Posted 24/09/2019 at 04:21:34
Unfortunately luck is influenced by referees and the media too so were screwed.
In reality though I think it all comes down to belief and positivity and we just dont have that. Even at their worst times, you ask the RS fans if they would win and they would never doubt that they were going to win. They always believe that they are the best and always will and I think that is felt by the players. As for us, weve already been stuffed by City.
36 Posted 24/09/2019 at 04:43:22
That deal was scuppered at the eleventh hour when David Luiz, decided to upset the apple cart and jumped ship to Arsenal. Because of the lateness of that happening, it was too late to get an alternative on board.
I don't know if the Board felt that Silva had exceeded his budget based on the money already spent versus performances or lack of, on the pitch, and in pre-season showings, before the Window actually closed.
Now whether the deal with Chelsea, although hypothetical now for Tomori, was that when he returned to Chelsea next Summer, their ban would have expired, and Zouma may have been allowed to come to us for the right price.
The other scenario that may have been discussed at Board level is that they are not totally convinced by Silva's performance last season, which was stuttering, but did admittedly pick up towards the end of the season, but away form was till comparatively poor.
Bearing that in mind, and they conceived him to be in the Last Chance Saloon, should his tenure be terminated, his successor would have his own scenario and again would want funds to bring HIS choices in. So some of the high paid long term contract players could be surplus to his requirements.
37 Posted 24/09/2019 at 06:24:44
I agree with your opinion regarding sacking the Manager.
38 Posted 24/09/2019 at 07:12:52
There is something radically wrong deep within the bowels of Goodison Park at the moment. Some of the points you mention are really quite horrific!
39 Posted 24/09/2019 at 08:06:34
40 Posted 24/09/2019 at 08:36:15
Like it or not, this is the situation Premier and Championship football is in, you can either like or lump it, it ain't going to change.
The only other choice is to support Marine or Southport, their players are definitely grounded. However, you wouldn't get away from the stepping stone culture.
42 Posted 24/09/2019 at 14:18:17
That said, I have to agree with a number of other posters who note that the condition of having such a mix of players in their squad is not one exclusive to Everton FC.
Such is the nature of modern day football with its inflated salaries and transfer fees, plus the lust of agents to serve their own best interests ahead of their clients by having them move club every 2-3 years to ensure their cut, pretty much every professional player can be described as a mercenary, looking to squeeze out the best contract and salary he can.
It has always been the case that the best players inevitably gravitate to the best clubs. I have no qualms in Everton recruiting 'stepper stoners' if they work their nuts off and play to the best of their ability during their time at the club, even if it is just to put themselves in the shop window.
If they do that, we benefit twice: their own field performances benefits our results and we profit on the transfer fee.
I have to differ with your conclusions, however. The two groups of players can and do co-exist. Indeed, they are not mutually exclusive: a player can be both a mercenary AND a stepping stoner.
Now a really talented player, given the current condition of Everton, may not, as you say, see playing for us as the pinnacle of their career. But degree by degree, that is exactly what we should be striving for: improving the squad quality, improving results, improving our finishing position, winning cup competitions, getting regular European qualification (preferably in the CL) until we reach a tipping point whereby stepping stoners with great potential and already established quality players WILL want to stay and WILL want to join us because we are meeting their ambitions as well as our own, with the financial clout to contract them.
Other clubs have done it. So can Everton.
That, I presume, is the Moshiri's vision and why he recruited Brands as his DoF, to incrementally improve the squad quality. Sadly, coming up to his fourth anniversary at the helm, it's all been very fitful under Moshiri with poor manager and DoF recruitment and some truly dreadful player purchasers.
Given the money invested to date, we should be a lot further down the road of being a viable proposition to retaining 'stepping stoners' and recruitment 'oven-ready' quality players.
That we ain't, is another discussion altogether.
But a good read Roger. I enjoyed it.
43 Posted 24/09/2019 at 14:28:05
Bielsa asked how many hours' work it took the average Leeds fan to earn the money to watch the team play. On discovering it was three hours, he instructed his squad to pick up litter from around the training ground for three hours.
The objective? To make the players more aware and better appreciate the hard work their fans put in just to be able to attend games and support them.
It not only helped with team building and bonding, but quickly establised a close affinity 'twixt manager, players and the fan base.
Not a cosmetic exercise then, but a very astute one, IMO.
44 Posted 24/09/2019 at 14:44:51
45 Posted 24/09/2019 at 15:07:07
Our problems are surely rooted in a lack of effective 'system' at Goodison, an effective system being one that ensures the 'right mental attitude' in situations of adversity. The lack of such a system has been evident, through the lack of mental toughness, for some time. It was evidenced strikingly last season by the collapse in form after the Anfield Derby, and is a constant theme.
We can sign new players, and appoint new managers, but we will likely continue to struggle unless we have the right system in place. The right system starts at the top, which is the case with any organisation. There seems to be something seriously wrong at the top. We seem to have a system that promotes talking rather than winning. Many organisations have management bullshit, but for a long time Everton's bullshit seems to be pervasive, cringeworthy, and dominating.
46 Posted 24/09/2019 at 15:39:19
As to your point about the organizational system, change in that area must come from the top, and it's a slow process. Takes years to change a company culture. I think Moshiri and Brands are leaders capable of carrying out that process.
Craig #39 -- "It doesnt hurt the players when they lose." I'm sorry, that's just ridiculous. You don't become a top professional athlete without being hugely competitive. These people are wired to succeed, which they have already done by beating out 100,000 other candidates for their job. As a journo I interviewed thousands of pros. Without exception they were gutted by defeat. Trophy wives and big houses are no comfort, at least until their career is over. If you want to hate them for their fortune, be my guest, but you can't point to one who walks off laughing or even indifferent after a loss. They hate it.
47 Posted 24/09/2019 at 16:40:42
48 Posted 24/09/2019 at 18:32:32
I agree with those who say we must have a mixture of the types of player that Rodger categorises, if only for the blindingly obvious reason that, as a club, we cannot attract the finished article of top class players with the skills and attitude to expect to win, and then win again.
We could, however, as a club attract far better personnel in just about every other department, from the coaching staff to the simply too comfortable senior managers. If you believe, as I do, that Everton Football Club needs a WHOLE club commitment to live up to its motto, then it really is time to do something about the changes that can be made to bring this about. Changing the culture of an organisation can take time but it takes a heck of a lot longer if you haven't even got started after 4 years.
I know some TW readers do not like my description of the club as a monument to mediocrity but, unless Moshiri addresses the issues of complacency, incompetence and indifference that are rife throughout the club, the subliminal message to managers and players is that by any standards Everton is a bit of a soft touch. No more Mr Nice Guy, Mr Moshiri?
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