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Ralph Basnett
1 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:10:50
Wow, but true. Totally bereft of anything.

Everton, typical.

Geoff Williams
2 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:16:51
It is going to take sometime for me to get over this debacle. I'm not sure if I'll go to Goodison again this season, I am us disillusioned with the club and the players but I am particularly disappointed with the performance of our Big Name manager, his team selection was wrong, his tactics were awful and his lack of passion was there for all to see.
Martin Mason
3 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:17:48
Everton had no answer to the way Liverpool pressed them at the back, not just one on one but two on one and all they could do was pass back to Pickford who whacked it upfield from where it immediately came back. Anybody playing further forward than the two traffic bollards in our midfield had no chance. As soon as Liverpool realised how totally hopeless we were they started to play the ball around too for the most embarrassing defeat I've ever seen Everton go down to.
Paul Tran
4 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:17:59
An appalling second half display.

The good thing is that early on, Ancelotti has seen the mental weakness of these players against City and against a team of Lpool youngsters.

My hope is that he now recognises the need for at least one physically & mentally strong centre mid who can drive the team forwards and teach some nous to our young players, and the older ones who are interested.

We have too many weak players who don't score goals. That must change, I'd like to think Ancelotti knows who we need.

Jerome Shields
5 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:22:40
It was a disgrace to the shirt. Everton collapsed in that second half. Against a first team at Anfield they could have been beaten 5 nil plus.

Everton now return to normal with extra holidays, as usual, since they are out of FA Cup and League Cup, in addition to the International breaks. God help us.

Ancelotti did not learn from the Man City game and did not consult with Big Dunc regarding best tactics. He has got a right kick in the ass at Anfield as a result, which he deserves.

Everton in that second half where unfit and unprepared.

Daniel A Johnson
6 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:24:00
In the 2nd half we didn't lay a glove on them.

Say what you like about Liverpool but their players now have a desire to win a pride in the shirt and the club. Effort and application, pride.

We have none of that, from top to bottom Everton FC is riddled with mediocrity, gutless, spineless and disgraceful.

Everton FC left me feeling ashamed tonight. Ashamed.

Steve Hogan
7 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:25:41
Sounds like a cliche, but certainly a watershed moment for the club and it's players. At least six of that team have now reached the end of their Everton career's.

Whoever gave the massive contracts to Sygi, Schneiderlin, Walcott etc need to hang their heads in shame.

Not just the inflated salaries but the actual length of their contracts is disgusting. They need to leave the club this season, no if's or buts, they simply have nothing left to offer the club as player's.

As soon as were safe from the dreaded R word, Carlo has to give the likes of Anthony Gordon and some of the other highly rated youngsters a run in the team, can they honestly fare any worse than the three above?

I hope the manger is ruthless, he needs to be.

Bill Fairfield
9 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:26:54
At the next home game I'll only be applauding the shirts onto the pitch not the absolute shite that's inside them
Tony Byrne
10 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:30:12
Not long back from the match,

Never in all my years watching Everton, have I witnessed a 2nd half display as bad as that, ever.

A midfield so bereft of any idea whatsoever, against a bunch of kids who, "ran rings around them."

That display summed up the disgraceful mis-management of the clubs recruitment policy of the past 4 years.

Carlo genuinely needs a new 11, these spineless fuckers should be replaced by the under 23,s in the league.

Tony Marsh
11 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:33:04
I don't get it. Surely this one is on Ancelotti? In what other walk of life or business would a new boss stick with the same workforce that got the previous 4 bosses the sack? It's mind-blowing that Ancelotti thought Sigurdsson, Schniderlin, Walcott, Coleman etc could work after all the times they have failed in the past.

Klopp schooled Ancelotti today, starting on Friday by letting it be known he was playing the kids. That saw Everton odds tumble and we became favourites to win the game. Pressure now on us... What Ancelotti should've done is the same thing. Told the press the League was more important and chucked some of our Under-23s in. Best in the country... aren't they?

Anyhow, Ancelotti pressed the same self-destruct button as Koeman, Unsworth, Allardyce and Marco Silva loved to press. Carlo played the duds and we lost. Surely 4 or 5 of our kids could've done better than the walking dead that played today? Ancelotti bottled it and he morphed into Marco Silva today. The buck stops with him.

I wanted Big Duncan to stay in charge until the season end. The top-draw elite players and clubs Ancelotti is used to managing are a different animal altogether, it's a different art form. A different interpretation of the game to where he is now at Everton. Chalk and Cheese. Carlo is not cut out for this type of football.

The intensity Duncan Ferguson brought with him has vanished. Ancelotti appears as clueless as Silva on this showing. This is worse than the 5-2 loss last month. We all know the players that got the other managers the sack. Pity Carlo doesn't recognise a poor player when he sees one. That starting 11 today had Marco and Ronald written all over it.

Charles Barrow
12 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:33:50
Possibly the worst defeat in recent years. Certainly the most humiliating!

I never thought that Shankly's boast that the best two teams on Merseyside were Liverpool and Liverpool reserves would actually come true.

Mark Dunford
13 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:39:40
The second half was as bad as I’ve seen. No threat, a team of internationals outclassed by Liverpool’s C team. Midfield was shocking throughout and - even in the first half - it was only long balls that led to an Everton threat. Sigurdsson, Schneiderlein and Delph should be out at the first serious opportunity to bin them. Unfit to play most of the time and now confirmed as unfit to wear the shirt again. I find Delph’s histrionics especially irritating - he needs to look in the mirror before criticising others. Everyone may well be shit but that includes him.

What happened to Beningme? Always injured. He looked so promising when he was in the first team and the signing of the equally injured Gbamim was baffling. Gordon has to be given a serious chance ahead of Walcott. Other than this, we need to sign players and let youth have a serious chance. Letting Lundström go was clearly a big mistake. Who else will come back to haunt us from the crop of promising youngsters nurtured by Unsworth? We can’t allow more young players to go without them having a chance while the first team squad is crammed full of proven failures.

Oh, and yes, we have an injury list, but this was their C team.

Kevin Prytherch
14 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:40:09
All those who slate Tom Davies - I can barely remember a forward pass from our central midfield in the second half...

I do think, as fans, we don’t know what we want. We criticise players for losing it when trying something going forward. The result is a midfield who always play safe, and inept performances like this.

Although I’ve slated Sigurdsson, we were instantly poorer when Delph came on.

The only players to come out of this game with any credit were Pickford, Holgate, Mina and DCL - whereas Richalison was ok.

I said after the last game that we’d have been better off with Big Dunc in charge for this game and the City game and I stand by that. Not saying that he’s better than Carlo, but he’s have had the team playing better than that.

Mike Anson
15 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:43:14
Can't argue with a single word from Lyndon. A great opportunity to progress to the 4th round and to lay the Anfield bogey to rest. But no, the club was let down by a cowardly and spineless set of so called professionals.

If I was Ancellotti I'd be having them in one at a time and leaving them in no uncertain terms that performances like that are totally unacceptable. Can accept a lot of poor things but no pride in the shirt or themselves leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson are far too slow as a midfield pairing, Digne is not the player of last season, Coleman's legs have gone. Tosun, Walcott and others simply not good enough. We need to stop buying other teams rejects ad buy hungry players.

Rant over

Shaun Laycock
16 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:47:55
Profoundly embarrassed...
Christine Foster
17 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:51:01
Tonight I am ashamed to be an Evertonian. Over the last 50 years I have seen some pretty poor performances, I have seen bad luck, poor decisions and injuries leave us with a what if perspective of our team.
Not tonight. That was as bad as it could get. No excuses for a heart breaking performance by a team who as you quite rightly say, no longer deserve the right to wear the shirt. In fact going further, I would be happy if many of them are shipped out this month. They deserve it. We don't.
A massive restructure is required and few of the current incumbents should or will survive.
I am tired of looking for others to blame for the mess we are in, but the truth is what we saw tonight was an abject display from the players. Totally unacceptable from pure effort alone.. if I was Ancelotti I would bring in every player and tell them one at a time that they have no future at the club or those who he deems fit, that they have to the end of the season to justify keeping.

I have never, ever seen an Everton team in all my days without the desire to fight. ( Moyes had me think it was poor, but this?)

Make a statement. Sack a few high profile players immediately.

Keep on doing it until the penny drops.

Angry...Upset.. embarrassed.. but most of all ashamed to be a blue. Thats how low I am. Not even relegation hurts as much..

David Thomas
18 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:51:28
No one can come out of the game with any credit.

That was a disgrace an absolute shambles and probably the most embarrassing defeat of my 60 years supporting this club.

There is not a player in that squad I could give a toss about if we sold tonight.

Brian Williams
19 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:51:37
Cowardly, no other word for it.
Strong word to use but fitting for several of our players today.
Some players played very badly and sometimes good players do, BUT there's no excuse for cowardice and it can't be forgiven.
Mike Connolly
20 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:56:13
Geoff 2
I feel like you that I don't want to go the next match. I like most of us, sick the way we are playing. We were getting beat are still trying to play from the back. I feel the players who start playing the ball from the back. are the unfit ones in the team. Just taping the ball to each other, means they don't have to run about. Shankly did say there were two teams in Liverpool. Liverpool and Liverpool Reserves. He got that slightly wrong It should have been the youth team. This is the worse time I have been embarrassed to be an Evertonian. Even when Tranmere beat us it was not as bad as this
John P McFarlane
21 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:57:02
There is a constant suspicion that those who hold power at the club aren't very often all on the same page. Undoubtedly there are those who would have given Duncan the job for the rest of this campaign and perhaps beyond or they might have turned to a former boss rather than another foreign outsider.

I agree that Everton trying to play the ball around at the back is tantamount to footballing suicide, and it makes no sense that players who already lack confidence and ability need that extra pressure put upon them. Is this due to Moshiri, asking for a certain style of play from his manager(s)? Do the likes of Siggy, Walcott and Snides have to be chosen to play, due to their salaries or because of the instructions of the owner?

I don't know what to think about the club and the players at this moment in time, but for a brief period of a fortnight or so we thought the team was back in shape and ready to fully represent us out on the pitch. But the last two games have shown us all that it was a blip and the reality is what we have witnessed for much of the last five years.

Money hasn't solved the problems it has made things worse, but someone has to take ownership of the issues facing the club and they must think long and hard about what the 'project' actually means.

I'll be happy when I see eleven players on the pitch able to pass a ball correctly more often than misplacing or under/over hitting them, shoot accurately more often than not and eleven players who fall to their knees at the end of a match because they've given their all for the cause - I fear it may be a long time before I feel happy again.


Rick Tarleton
22 Posted 05/01/2020 at 20:59:44
As bad a display as I've ever seen since 53-4. A jittery goalkeeper, a defence that when pressed is so slow and neurotic it just wants to be rid, a midfield without fight or energy and three forwards who never look to link up. I can't think of one player who deserved 3/10 today.
Coleman has gone, whatever combination of central defenders you choose thay totally lack pace and confidence under pressure, Schneiderlin,Sigurdsson and Delph are ravaged by age and injuries, they are useless and Richarlison plays on his own, I've yet to see poor Kean get five touches in the cameos he's played. Ancelotti and Brands will earn their corn if they turn this lot round.
Are Davies, Tosun andBernard really worse than the pathetic lot we put out today.
Liverpool and Liverpool Reserves! He was right.
Jeff Armstrong
23 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:00:34
How do Holgate, Mina, and maybe Richarlison come out of this game with any credit, non of them can control a ball, non of them can weight a pass to a teammate, non of the above mentioned are decent footballers, they where as dogs hit as the rest of them.
James Stewart
24 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:02:37
Shameful. The whole lot of them should be fined and transfer listed.
Jamie Evans
25 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:06:08
Really hope Ancelotti has learnt not to pass it out from the back. We don’t have the players, it’s a recipe for disaster. Easy for other teams to defend against and also put us under pressure through pressing.

Really need to adopt a more direct approach.

Imagine having to vote a player of the year for this lot towards the end of the season...

Tony Everan
26 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:08:30
Get it off your chest Lyndon lad, let it all hang out. This terrible performance deserved every word of it.

I hope Carlo has some answers where the others failed. This performance reeked of mental weakness and no confidence. The more I watched the more I felt there was no beating heart of this team. We are weak physically, for speed and mentally in the middle of the park. Tom Davies comes in for some stick but he is head and shoulders above Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin who have done absolutely nothing to be starting ahead of him.

Some serious wheeler dealer-ing needs to be done to get some players out that need a fresh start to reignite their careers. Most of all we need to get a quality central midfielder in until our first choices Gomes and Gbamin return. Ancelotti will step up the search from tomorrow, guaranteed.

Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin, Walcott , Bolaise, Tosun, Niasse and one or two more are now journeymen, earning a massive wage, and have not and never will, improve the team. Brands has the impossible/difficult task of selling or trading them. Our immediate future is tied to his success at doing it. Best of luck to him.

Peter Laing
27 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:09:43
I bet Marco Silva is sat on a sun-lounger somewhere nice and tropical and let out a huge belly laugh when he heard the score. As bad as he was, he was nowhere near as bad as the spineless bastards that cost him his job.
Dave Evans
28 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:10:51
After consideration of the possibility of hyperbole this is he worst performance I have seen.in 40 years. These were LFC kids. Klopp wanted out of the F.A. cup and we were so spineless we could not deliver a defeat.
Never has there been such a disconnect between Everton fans and the team
Occasionally in the past, Everton may have been a poor team in the eyes of other supporters. This game has made us a laughing stock.
Luke Welch
29 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:10:58
Agree blame lays with Ancellotti, tactics completely wrong. Should of kept Duncan.
Stephen Waller
30 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:13:37
I pray that there are 3 worse teams than us at the end of the season in the league but on that performance I just don't see it. This group of players in the main cant handle pressure and they freeze. Klopp out thought Ancellotti by playing the kids who were hungrier, sharper and playing for the shirt. Where do we go from here????
Sandra Bowen
31 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:14:16
A truly shameful performance from the biggest bunch of losers to ever wear the shirt. To be completely bossed by a team made of kids and reserves and not lay a glove on them all second half is unacceptable.

Absolute bunch of losers. I can understand the manager picking that side and expecting better but completely agree that he isn’t blameless either. But seriously, how can professional footballers, pretty much all Internationals come out and play like that. I’d be fuming if my 3 year old daughter passed like these idiots. I don’t get it.

Bin the lot of them, starting with the dickhead in goal. Most overrated keeper ever and get rid whilst we can still get a decent fee for him. It’s only a matter of time before everyone realises how crap he really is.

I never want to see Sigurdson, Walcott or Schneiderlin in the shirt again. Need a whole new midfield bit if we can’t buy this January, play some kids. They really can’t do any worse.

Keith Gleave
32 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:15:10
I missed the first 55 mins but was totally embarrassed with what I did see. Players who had no idea, couldn’t string two passes together and could not run ten yards.
I don’t really blame Ancelotti, now knows the dross he has and their complete lack of pride in the shirt and respect for the fans. In 59 years of watching and supporting this club, I have never felt more embarrassed. The only possible positive I can take from this is that you need to reach rock bottom before you can make your way up. I hope this is rock bottom.
Ian Riley
33 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:16:03
Can we have a transfer window for the fans?

I want to go out on loan for two years!

I shall return to a team that can pass, control and the shirt actually means something!

Knowing my luck, my transfer request will be turned down. Morgan schneiderlin will be given a three year contract and Gomes is like a new signing. Everton fans are not chosen. They are handed down by their fathers as punishment. Even friends once made jokes take pity. Carlo must be in shock. Welcome Carlo to our world. The doctor will see you soon.

Joe McMahon
34 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:20:55
Starting from our last win at Anfield (over 20 years ago) there has been many low points.

Shrewsbury 2 Everton 1 (the year Shrewsbury were relgated to Conference)

Everton 0 Tranmere 3

Everton 0 Wigan 3 (missed opportunity in Cup)

Semi v Liverpool at Wembley (1 up at HT and still lost)

Many thrashings in Europe by not even the top teams and in the league, Blackburn, and WBA scoring 4 at Goodison.

For me the best football on the eye in that time was Martinez first season, and the 2008 season. Even when we finished 4th winning 1- 0 mainly the football was not great to watch.

Todays performance however was shameless and as bad as it's been, but it's also been 20 years in the making. Even when I saw both starting line ups I had a nagging feeling we won't do it with S&S in the team. I was reminded of the FA cup semi v UTD when we could only beat a much weakend UTD team on penalties.

I just don't think Mosh has the money for what is required even now finally we have a manager who has dined at the top table.

Looking at the hight standard of the young Liverpool players of the future, it looks like our B Team, U23s is not fit for purpose. What are they doing that we are not?

Kase Chow
35 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:22:27
The worst I have ever ever felt as an Evertonian

A complete utter embarrassment.

Lyndon, you write so well but I must disagree with you on 1 thing: this was DEFINITELY on Ancellotti. How could he think we were good enough to play through their press? Especially after seeing the first half?

We should have played longer passes to get them turning OR he should have put an extra midfielder in there to change our 442 to a 433

Dunc’s team wouldn’t have been as disgraceful

What next? If I were Klopp I’d play my 4th choice team against us. And I bet we would fare just as badly

There is NO excuse for that today. Today I hated being an Evertonian. It’s just been disappointment after disappointment

The red lot wanted it more and are a credit to their club. Our lot were pathetic and I will never ever forgive them for today. There is nothing they can realistically do to redeem themselves

Bunch of cretins

Jay Woods
36 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:23:51
Not a warrior among them; the club should be renamed White Flag Merseyside and play with a huge Ajax-style band up the belly of the shirt, but in the appropriate colour of yellow.

And Ancelotti, for all his credentials, has, like all of his recent predecessors, failed to understand the importance of winning the derby, going by that supine surrender in the second half. What did he say at half time? "Careful now, they're only kids."???

We're at the point now where a derby win is not to be considered a luxurious topping to any season; rather, it's an absolute demand on which any Everton manager's tenure must stands or fall. This run of derby failures is utterly unacceptable.

Dave Evans
37 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:25:29
To blame Carlo is a Joke. For him it is simply a wake up call; That many players at this cub are freeloaders and need to get the f++k out.
Kevin Prytherch
38 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:25:52
Do we still think Brands is the way forward? Other than Digne and Bernard (who doesn’t really count as he was a free transfer), how many of his signings have actually increased in value?

One third of the inept midfield was his, both full backs, the headless one who cane off the bench and Bernard - who is becoming more and more invisible every time he plays. Granted Mina didn’t do a lot wrong today, but he’s not exactly been a £30million defender. Our best 4 players today (I’m including Walcott for his first half performance) were Holgate (Martinez), Pickford (Walsh), DCL (widely believed to be Rhino) and Walcott (Allardyce).

Tony Abrahams
39 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:26:54
Hasn’t anyone watched the history of Everton video where the comedian getting interviewed says there are two great teams in Liverpool, Everton and Everton reserves.

Liverpool took our ground, Shankley robbed our jokes, and now there fans are after our soul?

I saw the 1995 banner I heard the song and watching on my telly I was thinking we haven’t won in Europe since they killed 39.

Horrible thoughts for this ultra, politically correct, phoney,
modern world, but don’t let them take our soul, surely we are made of much stronger stuff than a lot of the cowards who don’t give a fuck for our shirt?

Tony Everan
40 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:27:26
Being an Evertonian is like living a life chained to the stocks, the key thrown away.

It's a ticket to perpetual embarrassment and dismissive mockery.

Today was the latest rotting cabbage to be hurled at our rotten bonce.

We've got too many career footballers at the club, going through the motions and banking the salary. They don't care about Everton too much, its a job. That kind of detached mentality seeps into the squad at all levels. It shows itself for what it is on match days. We are a bunch of players, and not a team.

Nicholas Ryan
41 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:28:41
That performance, made me think of Mick McArthy, when he was manager of Ipswich. They had put in a dire performance, and afterwards he said:
'All they have to do, is pull on a blue shirt, and pass the ball to another guy in a blue shirt... but none of them can do it'.

…… well, quite!

Paul Jones
42 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:29:07
Since the start of 2012/13, there have been 17 Merseyside derbies.

Everton have lead for a total of seven minutes.

Tommy Coleman
43 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:35:05
Schneiderlin in the epitome of the team. Negative back passes, weak, no energy, can't tackle and is so slow that I don't think I've ever seen him sprint.

It really worries me that Carlos put him and Sigs together in the midfield.

Dreadful stuff.

Paul Birmingham
44 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:35:16
I’ve said plenty about today’s performance on other threads.

A few beers helps sooth the pain but it’s life time pain and embarrassment.

Tony@40, spot on, that’s the way it is as an Evertonian.

It’s like a parable from the Old Testament, but the facts behind the consistent let down, which is EFC, are all true.

And Old Nick rises, and is ascending to greater achievements.

I hope that the board provide Carlo a war chest this summer, as a total overhaul of the squad is needed.

Not many of today’s squad should survive the cull, if and when it comes.

Jason Lloyd
45 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:35:47
Kevin 38 it's very simple, if you buy players from relegated premier league teams and rejects from top sides you end up with LOSERS man for man.

This is how you get loanees like Sidibe working harder for the shirt than full time contracted players.

Brands is looking increasingly like a phony DoF who buys more duds than winners.

I don't buy that getting a top striker is hard.

Ashamed to say it but a top striker wont touch us with a barge pole, only a mercenary that wants a big payday.

As a club right now we are doomed.

Ray Jacques
47 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:38:34
How is it down to Ancelotti. Any combination of our first team players should easily beat their youth team.

It is the spineless tossers on the pitch to blame for this.

Senior players such as Coleman, Walcott and Sigurdssen should have been screaming at the players that this was a great chance to beat them, instead they don't lead but hide.

Eric Paul
48 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:42:16
They will only ever be liverpool fans
We will always be Everton fans, And they know it that’s why they hate us.
Paul Birmingham
49 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:46:54
Spineless, characterless, leaderless on the pitch, gutless, pathetic excuses for footballers of EFC.

The lack of professionalism and care today, in my view suggests that there’s some thing missing at a Finch Farm. What the hell happened in the second half, ?

No pride and unforgivable today. I hope there’s no, more apologetic remorse stories in the media, from these players.

It won’t wash any more.

Patience is needed but EFC, can’t wait forever.

This defeat today is legend, and increases the pressures on a very daunting job for CA.

Mark Murphy
50 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:49:17
My son bought us tickets for the Brighton game next week and we’ve got prebooked train tickets.
Any good boozers in the town centre that doesn’t have a telly??
Dave Evans
51 Posted 05/01/2020 at 21:49:41
Eric
I don't give a monkeys f++k what they hate.
I do care that the present team are disconnected with what Everton fans and their team are all about.
Steve Lundberg
52 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:05:14
Watching that today I was totally shocked. The last couple of weeks I've seen signs of the tide turning. Slowly, but things beginning to change. Individuals looking more confident and composed. Sharper and committing more. But Carlo seriously got it wrong with this one. Wrong players - Wrong shape. A midfield pairing that was never going to work to good effect and with their best days far behind them. Carlo should have seen it clearly for himself now hopefully, and if he's still got it about him he'll steer well clear of trying it again. Tom Davies would have put the shift in required in this game I'm sure and picked up yet another yellow without doubt. He'd have driven with the ball at the rookie back line and linked with DCL effectively fueled with the pride in the shirt he wears.

We mention a lot about playing for the shirt! But very few among the top clubs do so these days. Our shirt represents our history and directly represents those of us who have an immovable passion and love for Everton. Only those who are born into and raised with this club, aside to some very special players who come here and become one of us and embrace the club ( Howard, Bally, Unsy, Sheeds, Sharpy, Duncan, Tim among many others) will truly play for the honour of representing the Everton shirt. As much as we expect it of all of our players it's not the case. They are playing for the benefit of their own career ambitions along with team they are a part of. We need to invest equally in bringing 'our own' through again so that an Everton team has its identity equally as much as it has journeyman outstanding players from around the world.

That lot across the park seem to have got the blueprint!

Brent Stephens
53 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:06:18
"So early in his reign, this one wasn’t on the manager; this was squarely on a group of players who have largely escaped the worst of the criticism and allowed Marco Silva to carry the can but now have nowhere left to hide. They were handed a route into the fourth round and they bottled it. Put frankly, they were a disgrace to the shirt and the badge".

As brutal and as honest an indictment of the players as I could imagine.

Allan Board
54 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:08:24
As this is a man's game, supposedly, I will comment in man's terms.
When we were lads growing up, you were judged on your actions and on your loyalty and bravery toward your peers and your own self respect. If you failed to show these, you were ostracised to the extent of becoming irrelevant to your peers and labelled a loser.
There would be no big forgive and forget so you were screwed.
These are the type of losers I saw playing for our club today. In life you must have the 3 D's- desire, discipline and determination to even have half a chance of succeeding.
I did not see anyone in a blue shirt with that today.
I have no respect for anyone who can't show respect to their family, work or performance.
What I saw today were a bunch of expensively assembled, spoilt, childish, disrespectful and work shy men I only have a deep pity for as they are short of moral fibre and heart.
Out muscled by kids, out thought by kids, with not the bravery to run harder, fight more, contest anything and do anything to gain the upper hand.
What I saw today was a team of snowflakes who always melt when the heats on.
They have managed to attain the 3 D's though-unfortunately the 3 know one wants-disrespectful, dire and disloyal.
To question a man's integrity and pride is the ultimate, but tonight I question everyone of theirs.
Good luck Mr Ancelloti, you have been dealt a poisoned hand.
Brent Stephens
55 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:12:19
I watched our U23s against their U23s at Kirkby not long ago. We lost but it was a far better performance from our U23s than today's lot. Even our Matty Foulds had a better game against their Elliott in that game.
Kase Chow
56 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:13:25
Eric #48

What an odd and pointless thing to say?

They’re siting there rightfully proud of their 1st and 2nd teams and in shoring here (like many blues) totally ashamed of my lot

In the last 20 years they’ve had players that stand up for the shirt and win trophies. And win REPEATEDLY away at Chelsea & Arsenal & Utd. We don’t (we’ve won once at OT)

Eric. What are you talking about man????

My Liverpool mates don’t hate me - they PITY me!!!

‘It must be awful to support a club that never wins trophies, can’t win away at any decent team and always pee the bed against mighty Liverpool’

You know what? It IS awful. I hate it. My club and it’s wretched players are useless. None of it deserves pride. Only some yesteryear brilliance if you’re old enough to have loved it (I’m 40, in not old enough)

So why why why in gods name would they hate us? We are an irrelevance, nay, an easy 3 points to them. Trust me - they don’t hate us. They love us

Tony Abrahams
57 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:15:34
I’ve always hated Dominic King, but his assessment is so brutally honest. A man who normally digs out Everton, even when having to write something positive, didn’t need a spade tonight, but there are fucking loads of us that are going to need crash helmets for the next few weeks, and if Carlo, was in his home country right now, I’m sure his club would need extra security on the gates of the training ground, after such a humiliating and shameless display?
Jonathan Tasker
58 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:16:50
January 5th 2020
Everton obituary. Everton FC died today. The body will be cremated and the ashes taken to Anfield.
Mike Dolan
59 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:19:35
Wow this is a lynching. We have been handicapped the entire season with injuries to the key component of the team the midfield.
Now we are spineless coward mercenaries who don’t really give a shit if we win or lose. We lost a cup tie 1-0 playing a non league side. Wow that’s never happened before has it. Know your history my arse.
Today was not good but is anyone really surprised that we lost today? Is anyone doubting that in spite of today the future is looking brighter at this moment than it has done for a lot of years.
Paul Birmingham
60 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:21:00
Today’s shit show, warrants if these players have any ethics on work, and morality of what their contracts for Everton mean?

For me a new captain on the park, some one forcefully, firm but fare and narky, must be planned, as we are rudderless and leaderless on the park.

Scary today as well, as if the s are developing their youngsters on this scale, via home grown and international recruitment, then, it looks like we are deeper in the crap, than we realise, in view of the next 5 years.

Surely soon, Everton’s fortunes will change, for the better?

I hope so, as I’m past the half way house, and in reality, it’s not gonna happen soon, bar a miracle.

John P McFarlane
61 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:25:37
Mike #59 In what way is the future looking brighter? Is it because Usmanov said he 'might' invest in the club / stadium? Which was timed to perfection seeing as the club are about to post record losses and of course could take some of the heat out of the AGM coming soon. Is it because we have a big-name manager? Is it because we have a plethora of world class talent to come back into the side once they recover from their injuries? Is it because we are well clear of the dreaded drop?

I'm sorry but if you can't see today as being on one of the darkest days in our all-time history never mind recent history then you must have experienced some very dark days indeed.


Brent Stephens
62 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:25:54
I can understand criticism if we play around at the back and get hit by the high press when playing against a premier league side - but against kids? There's no way playing it out from the back should have been countered by kids.

And when we did go long their kids mopped up there as well.

Kids. Who'd have 'em.

James Byrne
63 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:29:50
Shocking performance today and another derby that leaves us asking ourselves what the fuck is the point in this club! Any other team going to Anfield for this fixture today such as Palace, Watford, Sheff Utd etc would have won this game comfortably, but not us.

One of the worse things we have ever done is come into money under Moshiri and at the same time keep Kenwright at the club pulling strings. The money the club has spent on sacking managers alone is staggering. How Moshiri is even a "billionaire" with his so called business acumen is a mystery.

Joe McMahon
64 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:33:06
Mike @59 I also like John can't see what positives there is. You saw their Academy players today, you honestly think David Chumpy Unsworths young starlets are gonna kick Arse? Those Liverpool teenagers are light years ahead, Liverpool FC are going to dominate for years. So yes plenty to be happy about!
Ed Fitzgerald
65 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:33:12
I’m never ashamed to be an Evertonian but I was disgusted by that performance today. I never want to see Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson or Delph in an Everton shirt again. We would have been been better with Davies and Holgate in midfield at least there would have been some energy.

Ancellotti needs to carry some of the blame for defending so deep and inviting the pressing by the Liverpool team of kids. Worse than the semi final, worse than the 86,89 finals, worse than the 5-0 home defeat in 1980’s. I’ve got to go to work tomorrow and listen to a load of armchair kopites dispense their usual banter.

Apparently he is going to talk to each individual player tomorrow he should invite one of us in with him for some brutal honesty. I hope Usmanov has deep pockets because we need some quality in now. Every time I think we can’t sink any lower this fucking football club breaks my heart. The Samaritans should have a special line just for Blues fans.

Iakovos Iasonidis
66 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:33:24
I wouldn't change a word. This bunch of losers escaped criticism for far too long. We must get behind the manager now and wish we can afford A LOT of out and ins. More than half of our starting 11 are utter shite and the other half not good enough for starting eleven. To be honest I would only keep pickfort, coleman, davies, holgate, Dcl, kean, digne and bernard for the bench and Richarlison, gomez, for starting 11. All the rest can f... off right now. After the first half I genuine believed we would win this. Our 2nd half display is one of the worst I can remember. Playing against teenagers just make things worse.
David Edwards
67 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:33:29
I haven't posted for ages. Others have chronicled and commented on our ups and downs much better than I could.

However, I needed to publicly add my support to Lyndon's heartfelt comments and hope those high up in the club can read the shame and embarrassment that second half performance has caused us all in the Everton community. As it was from Lyndon rather than anyone else, I hope it can reach them and make them squirm these next few days.

Disgraceful!

David Thomas
68 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:34:58
Mike Dolan, I presume you are just on the wind up?
Andrew James
69 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:43:42
Not quite off Carlo this one.

He played Schneiderlin. Possibly the biggest waste of space I've known in nearly 40 years of supporting the Blues.

Why do all our coaches persist with him? Tom Davies would have given us bite and energy through the middle. Instead the crash test dummy came in and, guess what, another embarrassing defeat came.

At least with Davies we go down fighting rather than this pathetic surrender that Schneiderlin is nearly always culpable for.

Similarly Gylfi. Totally pathetic.

Julian Exshaw
70 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:43:50
Surely CA with all his experience would know these players well enough, even after just 2 weeks in the job. Surely a member of our coaching staff would have pointed out that those 3 in midfield was a recipe for disaster. The mystery is also what was said at HT to ensure that the following 45 minutes were without doubt the most shameful in recent memory. In other levels of society a full inquiry would be called for. I dare anyone to watch that second half again and tell me what was going on. My only consolation tonight is that I hope this is finally a watershed in the modern era of Everton FC. It can't get worse than what we witnessed today.
Andy McNabb
71 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:45:36
Here in Australia we have bushfires, some of the scariest creatures in the world and it's difficult to get a decent pork pie. But we also have the opportunity to sleep through dross like that.

Sorry but I will say it again. For all the eyebrow raises and experience winning with the biggest teams in the world, Carlo has never been in a dogfight like this before. I fear he is not the man for this situation. Duncan would simply not have tolerated that performance.

Now I'm off to apologise to my sons for introducing them to Everton. My Kopite brothers have always joked it was a form of child abuse - maybe they have a point.

John P McFarlane
72 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:45:43
I don't set much store in player ratings but the Echo's list is embarassing for us and hopefully for the players. Some might say the ratings were generous.
Pickford gained a huge 5/10 whilst Siggy scored 2; the rest were either rated 3 or 4.
Jerome Shields
73 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:46:31
Ancelotti is on a four and half year contract. Progress if any will be slow, with no guarantee of success. Given the legacy he has inherited and his failures tactically today, it is very much up for grabs if he has sufficient cop on, given that the writing was on the wall at Man City regarding his tactics and he failed to see it.

Duncan is probably thinking tonight , 'my hands where tied', because the current Manager won't listen to me, as per usual.

I have no doubt the result would have been different if Duncan had been in charge.

Kunal Desai
74 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:49:12
AGM next week should be fun. If I were there i'd firing with both barrels numerous questions as to the direction of where this club is actually going. I think the fans really need some transparency here from the likes of Moshiri and not bullshitter Bill who needs complete removal along with his sidekick DBB.
Clearly this board are pulling in different directions and something smells rotten to the core.
Cancel the contracts of the likes of Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson and Walcott. Add the extra millions to the £100 million excess loss already made if it meant not watching those poor excuses of footballers.

Rob Dolby
75 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:50:02
Ancelotti has to shoulder an equal amount of blame for tonight.

Why introduce that messing around at the back when we can't pass the thing.

Why not go direct to DCL and play to his strengths.

Don't get me wrong the players where pathetic and should shoulder equal blame and be able to take initiative.

Ancelotti will have to learn to play to the players strengths not that they have many.

Get Pickford to smash it up the pitch. Get DCL to win headers. Get Richarleson in the box and tell the others to fight like fuck to get the ball. It's not brain surgery.

Too many shithouses in the squad.

If we don't see a reaction against Brighton we could end up getting dragged back into the relegation battle and this current squad of gobshites don't have any fight in them to get out of it.

Eddie Dunn
76 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:51:24
A terrible second half. However in the first half the much maligned Walcott burst down the right putting in three wonderful crosses which we didn't score from. The equally malligned Sigurdsson also produced important balls which were not scored from.

We should have converted at least one of our chances, and from the quality of those opportunities, perhaps two or three of them.
If we had then this forum would not be the shitfest I am now witnessing.
You don't take your chances and you lose. Simple.
True that the second half was shockingly bad, but we all knew that Siggy can't play deep with Schnides and Walcott never lasts a whole game. We know Digne is awful this term.
The worrying thing is that Duncan and co haven't told Mr Ancelotti that these guys are shit.
I said yesterday, like Colin, that Klopp was going to put us in a lose-lose situation, so we should also play our kids plus a few old heads. It's not like we were going to win the cup anyway.
All we did was give Klopp and all of his fans in the BBC and the media the chance to applaud his kids ad let them off (poor dears) if they came up short.
Klopp - I detest. He is so very calculating. It is a real shame that he got it right again.
Carlo has now seen why we are in our position. It won't be a quick fix- it isn't so simple anymore. There are guys on contracts (some might have clauses that they must play whenever fit, who knows!) Plus we are so short on options and we need points to maintain the illusion of wellbeing.
We simply have to put up with our slow, aging players and pampered wimps until we can offload them.
We have to pretend to like them until at least the summer
Rome will be built...but not in a day.
NSNO

Shaun Lyon
77 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:53:05
The first sentence of your second paragraph nails it Lyndon. When I was a kid I idolised our players, even though many of them were shite (Ken McNaught or Dai Davies anyone?) Nowadays I generally hate them. Everyone who has posted on here tonight feels the same disgust and anger and though there is nothing constructive or practically useful to be gained from venting it, it seems to be a necessary outlet. What else do we have? I have seen many poor Everton teams but never - never - one so lacking in any kind of fight or spirit, so bereft of a single figure on the pitch who can galvanise his team mates, who can take charge and show some kind of response, some kind of PRIDE. I for one would be very happy to never see Schneiderlin, Walcott, Sigurdsson, Mina, Kean, Digne, Sidibe ever play for our team again. BASTARDS.
Rob Halligan
78 Posted 05/01/2020 at 22:55:13
Not a lot can be said about today. Utter utter garbage. When I heard the RS line up, my heart sank, simply because it was a no win situation for us, and with our atrocious record at Analfield, you just knew the inevitable would happen. Ok, in the first half, we could, and probably should have been two or three up, chances just went begging.

The second half was, without doubt, the worst half of football I have ever seen Everton play. We didn't have one decent attempt on goal. We just stood off their midfield and let them play like they were seasoned premier league players. I watched the RS team play away to villa in the league cup, and while they got beat 5-0, I don't think they deserved a 5-0 defeat. Yet it seemed like our lot today just thought they only had to turn up and the game was ours.

God knows how many times I've been to Analfield, but what I do know is, I've only seen us win there twice, and one of those was a league cup game. The other being the last time we won there. I've now resigned myself to the fact that I will never see us win there again.

As someone mentioned above, Klopp probably doesn't want to win this season's FA Cup. This might sound like sour grapes, but the RS will not get beyond the fourth round if Klopp plays the same team again. Any decent championship team will beat them, and certainly any premier team will, simply because they will have more heart, desire, passion, and whatever other adjective you can think of.

Tomorrow morning in training you Everton players, just think of it as you pick up your thousands of pounds in wages, you were beaten by a bunch of Fucking kids. I hope your wages make you feel a little better because right now there are eight thousand blues fans there today, and millions more worldwide, who right now probably want to kick the shit out of every single one of you.

Terry Hughes
79 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:00:34
Well, what can I say that hasn't already been said before. The whole club has been ‘coasting' for decades and this attitude has seeped into the players minds as well. No one and I mean no one is held accountable for any fook ups. Should have got Neil Lennon in as assistant manager to Duncan so the pair of them could put a rocket up every single one of them cowardly players arses each and every time we played a game.

I used to think LFC had sold their soul to the devil by the amount of luck and dodgy officials protection they've received over the years but now I know that LFC instill a work ethic into every single one of their players that will be questioned and acted upon if they fall below their standards set. RIP Everton.
Colin Glassar
80 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:03:25
Nothing more to add to the article and the vast majority of posts. If I was Ancellotti I’d lock the whole bunch of the feeble bastards in a padded cell and make them watch the second half, on a loop, for a week.

Is this the first derby we’ve ever played without even one local lad on the field?

John Pierce
81 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:08:42
That’s was as the title suggests a disgrace. A disgrace to the whole club and it’s being for over 100 years.

I was embarrassed to even witness that spineless effort.
I rode into New York with a kopite friend. Over breakfast our eyes mulled over the team news. I was aghast, he was incredulous.

Klopp pulled a blinder, a team-sheet which shifted the pressure fully to Everton to win a game he patently didn’t want to.

A Liverpool manager that couldn’t be arsed with a cup derby? I knew straight away we were completely screwed.

The pressure was too much, we snatched at every touch, the angst writ large on players faces, knowing the ignominy that awaited if they couldn’t beat an academy side.
Palpable were my shouts when we missed three grade A chances, composure a total stranger to this team.

Ancelotti looked ashen.

It ebbed away without any attempt to wrest the advantage, we subsided with a whimper and that has to be worse than any thrashing we have ever been handed by that lot.

They weren’t bothered, didn’t care and reveled in the ineptitude of our despair.
What we have can only be described as chronic and with no known cure. Everton you are pitiful and deserve nothing from us. Every penny should be refunded to the away end and their wages donated to charity, not ourselves (of course) as we are the very definition of a charity case.

Eddie Dunn
82 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:08:45
Rob, As an aging 59 year old, I still play six-a- side twice a week. A Month ago we had oldies versus youngsters. Oldies all over 40 and youngsters 17 -27. The oldies went behind but despite the speed and agility advantage, the experience and organisation of the older guys paid off. A clear win.
These kids should never have had the nous to beat professional players in their prime...internationals from Brazil, Colombia, France,England, Iceland and ireland.
There are no excuses.
Ancelotti would have looked at their pedigree and thought it was straightforward.
These guys have embarrassed themselves as well as the rest of us.
The sad thing is, this lot couldn't raise themselves to save Silva in their last Anfield outing. They have no confidence and no pride.
Anthony Murphy
83 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:13:43
Worrying. The squad is poor, but we will have no choice but to plough on with what we have got. We may bring in one or two in Jan, but ultimately Ancelotti needs to work with what he has for now. We may also need to sell an asset (not many granted) in the summer to help fund rebuilding. It’s a big challenge and needs hard graft which he needs to lead on. I just hope Ancellotti is prepared for what’s ahead. I hope he accepts he has a really tough job on his hands and I hope he actually gives a fuck
Jerome Shields
84 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:13:51
John#72

I agree with the echo ratings. Kean I feel got 4 , because frankly Everton where not up that end of the pitch. His failed volley was a carbon copy of a previous failed attempt.

I hope the players really get to know their ratings. Safe Finch Farm they will quickly return to not being bothered.

In his interview after the game Ancelotti said 'We where not able to build from the back'. The problem is the players have never been capable to do so and this is obvious before this game.

Brent Stephens
85 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:22:36
Interesting comment that the rs U23s train with their first team squad. Ours train separately?? They certainly haven't been playing the same formation and tactics. Stepping up must be so much easier for the rs kids.
Christy Ring
86 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:23:11
I know Ancelotti is only here 2 weeks, but to pick Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson together in midfield, was his shocking mistake. I said it yesterday here, start Holgate and Davies in midfield, a physical presence, instead after 10 min's Richarlison was back defending, trying to shackle Lallana, Sigurdsson nowhere near him, he should have been dragged ashore then, and to replace him with Delph eventually, who was equally as bad, instead of Davies was bewildering. Taking off Coleman, was a mistake, and putting Sidibe at full back, where his defending, and Schneiderlin, rolling around on the ground, led to their goal. The 2nd half was the worst I've ever seen, no leadership, pride or passion, couldn't even string two passes together, and not one shot on goal. The lowest of the low.
Rob Dolby
87 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:27:07
Brent 85 don't kid yourself that the rs u23s are somehow a cut above.

A local semi pro team or decent ale house team would have beaten us tonight.

It's not the size of the man in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the man and our bunch of shit bags would have been beaten by our own u23s tonight.

Pathetic the lot of it.

Brent Stephens
88 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:29:41
Rob, they beat us a few months ago at Kirkby.
Shaun Lyon
89 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:36:03
Spot on Rob at 78.

We can analyse the team's obvious failings - the inability to cope with their press, the massive black hole where other teams - in a radical tactical idea, have this thing called a 'midfield', the inability to take chances when they sit up on a plate etc etc - but in different guises we've seen similar failings over decades.
Today for me though got to the root of the rotten core of the game now - for when it comes down to it, really comes down to it, they don't care all that much.
The morning after the last Derby humiliation Tosun put a video on social media of him scoring for Turkey. The previous night's result didn't seem to bother him for a second.
They are simply paid too much and - as I think another poster Colin alluded to - don't get the significance of the game in the way a local lad surely would. Peter Reid would have been grabbing his own team mates by the throat out there today. I'd loved to have seen it.

Mike Dolan
90 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:38:43
Ok why is there just cause for optimism.
We have one of the top managers on the planet.
We also have a brilliant director of football.
We will soon have a new Ground.
We also have medal mega millions behind the club.
We will soon have at least another center half
We will soon have a serious creative midfielder
We will also have Gomes and Gbamin back at some point. (The G Force)
We will soon be replacing some of our presently inadequate players
We have three players who are fast maturing into real stars. It is worth the wait.
Plus a lot of the moaners who never have a good word to say on ToffeeWeb have promised to give us up entirely which will be great for morale because there will be bumps along the way and we don’t really need faint hearted whiners practicing there anti Everton hatred on our beloved piece of Gods blue earth.
Nick Page
91 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:39:21
Oh the Kenwright years. When will this man and his absolute mediocreness (is that a word?) piss off?
Rob Dolby
92 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:39:31
And they got smashed by a half strength Villa side last month in the worthless cup

My point is that our team would have been beaten by any organised football team.

We are a shambles.

Brent Stephens
93 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:43:05
Rob, yes a shambles we were. No denying that.
Bob Parrington
94 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:43:43
How embarrassing! Tends to prove that it has been the players (well, some of them) all along, as several managers have had to put up with this crap. That is, unless the "bad egg" still needs to be weeded out.

I agree with Brent@52. Shows what a big challenge is there for Carlo.

Others' comments re Brands can be premature. It will be interesting to see how Carlo and Brands work together. Currently depressed about the team but positive about going forward with Carlo at the helm.

Rob Dolby
95 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:44:47
Mike 90

Your reminding me of the knight in the Monty Python film.

Your optimism should be commended.

I just can't find or drag one ounce of positivity out of the game today.

Jim Harrison
96 Posted 05/01/2020 at 23:49:07
Not what people want to hear, but the job Klopp has done is pretty incredible. Yes with lots of money spent, but he has spent that money well

Kids playing the way they did is a testimony to how well they have been coached. I have been thinking for some time, our academy players do well, win league b or whatever it is, then get around the first team in their early 20’s. Those lads playing yesterday are on the fringes of the first team a couple of years earlier

The pressing they applied was relentless and co ordinated. Ours was single players chasing defenders and keepers then being easily bypassed, often taken out of the game by a turn and pass. They didn’t let our players nJe the pass. Turn and find another red shirt in their way. It really was a quite brilliant display and embarrassing that it was so effective.
They had two experienced players for most of the match. Siggy and Morgan made Lallana look like Messi, AOC when he came on showed Richarlison how to run with the ball and not give away possession.

Can’t blame Carlo for that performance. Basics not being done by well paid players. Walcott looked good for the first half, then turned in a horror showing in the 2nd. Only he can understand how his foot turned to lead

It was also telling how much better the young Liverpool players were at their crisp passing and ball control. They zipped passes around. Their passes stuck. Our lads were ponderous and the looseness of control bewildering

Barring injuries that should be the last we see of Morgan. Siggy at least has a role to play higher up but better get used to the bench.
Kean should start instead of Walcott to at least get him game time, not that his efforts so far have earned it

Nick Page
97 Posted 05/01/2020 at 00:00:38
Some incredible nonsense written on here. We could have easily been 3 up at half time, or maybe 3-1 to be absolutely fair given the chances. But to call us out as terrible is way way off the mark. Klopp rolled the dice, got lucky (again) and that lad that scored has more or less secured his transfer to Bournemouth for £20m and will never do that again.

It's been the same way for years with them. I remember crying all the way back from the 86 cup final as a kid on a coach full of reds with my arl fella (RIP) thinking how the hell did we lose that game. Higher powers at work with them. Liverpool are a confidence team, led by Klopp (the big cheerleader). He's a great manger because like Ferguson and all great mangers he gets his players to buy into his system. But...he's also got hugely lucky with transfers and hasn't had the mistakes of his predecessors hung over him.

We're a long (long) way behind them and we need to back a manager, that understands our “style” and not sell our best assets. Liverpool are 10 league trophies and 6 European cups ahead of us. Let's focus on us, our future and stop worrying and agonising about them. And then it might just happen. COYB
John P McFarlane
98 Posted 05/01/2020 at 00:00:45
Mike #90 I truly hope all of what you listed comes to fruition. But you can't claim that Evertonians are nothing if not patient, we have heard all of those promises of jam tomorrow for so many years, but those of us of a certain age and older don't have the energy or perhaps the time to wait too much longer. Those younger folk who have seen nothing of note for their entire time watching Everton have witnessed some really horrible performances season in and season out, what keeps them coming back for more is a real mystery to most people but they have to be applauded for their fortitude, and one of their number penned an interesting article.

Phoenix

Paul Birmingham
99 Posted 06/01/2020 at 00:11:46
John@98, very good perspective and a reality check.
Ian Pilkington
100 Posted 06/01/2020 at 00:31:06
John@98
Just read your link, excellent.
Lyndon, spot on as usual.

Gavin Johnson
101 Posted 06/01/2020 at 00:56:28
Another thing yesterdays game illustrated yesterday is that our academy is failing. Yes, we've won the league and cup, but we have no players that look ready for the first team apart from Anthony Gordon, and maybe Lewis Gibson. I don't watch the U 23's but one thing I have noticed is that we seem to hold onto players longer than necessary. Why is someone like Matthew Pennington still even on the books?! We've also got players out on loan now like Nathan Broadhead, and while he's been one of Burton Albion's best players this season, he's 21. Why wasn't he out on loan the season before?!

We need to be decisive and move players out either on loans or sell them quickly if we don't feel that they'll make the grade. The academy needs to pay. How the fuck do the RS get £20m for shite like Solanke and we end up getting peanuts for our players who have gone through the same England youth sides.

I didn't know that the RS youth side trained with the first team. Maybe that's something we should be doing. I know the idea that all our players should play a certain way was muted under Martinez, but Ancelotti doesn't have a fixed philosophy on how the game should be played so I don't know if it would work as well for us.

This needs to be looked at by Brands, He's the guy buying youth players and loaning youth players out. Unsworth's done a great job but I do wonder sometimes why players like Niasse and Cuco Martina should be getting games. Niasse was recently played in a game instead of Ellis Simms. Is that because Unsworth is trying to get results over nurturing the young talent at his disposal?! I don't know, but if so, that might be why we have very few players in contention for the first team squad

Having just read through this I wish I'd have put this forward for consideration for it's own thread by Michael cos the U 23 set up only seems to get praise, but it isn't achieving in what it's really meant to do, by producing players good enough for the first team.

Jack King
102 Posted 06/01/2020 at 01:16:24
"You can't win anything with kids."
paul morgan
103 Posted 06/01/2020 at 01:44:39
I'm just glad Dave Hickson wasn't here to witness that.
Gordon Adie
104 Posted 06/01/2020 at 02:04:13
I'll say it again get a fitness coach who will bring fitness. Get them running up and down dunes until they can run for the full length of a game. It is so bleeding obvious that they are the unfittest team in the premier league. Let the bastards earn their corn. Run them until they puke .
Jamie Crowley
105 Posted 06/01/2020 at 02:05:19
It's 9 pm EST, and before I delve into a Sunday night of Youtube exploration - I mean seriously, what better way to spend an evening when you're 50 than a couple glasses of vino and Youtube trolling? - I logged on to TW. Habits are hard to break.

Saw Lyndon's title, and I thought, well ya, gotta have a read of this.

Usually I look forward to Lyndon's articles to temper my own rash, emotional, over the top reactions to all things Everton.

And what do I read? A much more polite, professional version of?

FUCK OFF YOU OVERPAID PRICKS!

Thank you Lyndon. It gives me great solace to know I'm not overreacting.

Diabolical today. Disgraceful.

Mike Gaynes
106 Posted 06/01/2020 at 02:41:34
Disgraceful is the appropriate word.
Jim Harrison
107 Posted 06/01/2020 at 03:03:21
For me it’s now the morning. And with a limited amount of sleep and a slight stout haze still sitting over me I have somewhat calmed. It was still a shit show, but I have moved on from bitching about our players in the past hour and have spent time thinking about how our club need to emulate what they are doing.
It’s clear that their young players are in tune with what their manager wants. They came up against accommodating opponents but kept doing what they were expected to do and prevailed. I can’t get over how good their passing was. I recall years back reading something in an interview with Gerrard about the passing drills at Liverpool. Basically from day one they were trained to fizz passes at each other. It was expected that you could control the ball and pass in the same fashion. Watching them play it would appear that that same mantra has been maintained.
Our seasoned pros in comparison couldn’t control even the tamest of passes and running with the ball seemed to be some alien concept.
Basically, they have better players, better coaches and a better long term strategy.
Oh, and deeper pockets still

Derek Thomas
108 Posted 06/01/2020 at 03:03:47
Breaking news; Everton to be fined by F.A. for bringing the game into disrepute by fielding a weak team.
Mike Dolan
109 Posted 06/01/2020 at 03:21:25
I am not trying to wind anyone up, I think Lyndon’s article does that better than I could. I have followed Everton for over 60 years. They are part of my self identity. I love Everton.
I’m also as mad as anyone to witness such a guileless performance in such a big game.
We have a team that has been put together by by 4 different managers. But for the first time really since the heady days of John Moore’s we now have a real chance of sustainable success. Why go back to Moore’s when Kendall’s 80s team was even more successful ? The 80s team we caught lightening in a bottle with players and management I doubt if it was sustainable. Even then there was not a lot of money behind the club and the European ban sent us reeling so much so that we never caught up.
The reason I feel more optimistic than even those wonderful days when John Moore’s cheques ruled is that we are entering an era where Everton the business is going to be just huge and an era when we will be able to compete with the biggest European clubs. I think we might just get a clue of just how big we intend to be this month.
Don’t be to down people.
Peter Barry
110 Posted 06/01/2020 at 04:27:56
Just when you think Everton can't embarrass or disappoint you any more they turn in a pathetic performance like this and to the RS THIRD TEAM too just to rub salt in to the wounds
Kev Dooley
111 Posted 06/01/2020 at 04:29:36
God I hope with every ounce of blue blood in me that wind of these threads gets to at least one player.
I cannot even ARTICULATE how much that loss hurt.
Can only be matched by the annoyance of the crap I get from being a lone Irish toffee with literally every mate being a Red, .
Compared to the relagation battling 94 squad, who had@ least pride & passion, this group are soulless, and unfortunately this may not even be rock bottom.

Embarrassment, that all this club is right now,
A FUCKING EMBARRASMENT...

John Clarke
112 Posted 06/01/2020 at 04:31:25
On the 8th December we beat Chelsea 3-1 in that now famous first game for Duncan. The energy, intensity, the emotion, the sheer determination to win was incredible to watch.

Nine of the players who played that day, played in yesterdays dreadful performance against a much weakened Liverpool team. The two changes were Keane and Iwobi ( v Chelsea ) and Coleman and Mina in against Liverpool.
The only changes made and yet the team performance against Chelsea and against Liverpool were incomparable.

How can a squad of professionals with experience of international football for their respective countries, years of premier league experience against all the big clubs and a world class manager, albeit only his fourth game in charge in a very short space of time.
How can the players, (I don't blame the manager), fail so utterly, be so comprehensively out played, out manoeuvred, out run, out motivated, out thought and out of the only chance of a confidence building cup run and opportunity to win at Anfield against our ever present nemesis.

I wonder about some of our players, Walcott, for example, experience of N. London derbies as well, is he really hurting after yesterdays game, is he deeply embarrassed, or is he wondering what restaurant to go for dinner, or whether he should buy a new car. And that goes for all of the players.

The rebuilding of Everton Football Club will happen. In the next five years, we'll have a new ground, very few of the players that attended yesterdays game, will be at the club and there will be newer and better players to replace them.
There will be highs and lows as all clubs experience but hopefully, yesterdays LOW will be THE lowest we ever experience again.

I don't expect a whole raft of new players, FFP regulations put paid to that immediate solution but changes will be made. In the summer, more changes.
Slowly a new squad will be put together, with hopefully some of our academy players making the grade.

Carlo Ancelotti signed a four and a half year contract and it will take that long for us to yet again experience success.

So, onwards and upwards Everton and all of us that love the club. Step aboard the rollercoaster, we're in for a hell of a ride.

Jerome Shields
113 Posted 06/01/2020 at 04:46:54
Walcott was glad to be subbed and probably looking to be.
Phillip Warrington
114 Posted 06/01/2020 at 04:51:04
Everton's trouble is nobody wants Gylfi Sigurdsson, Morgan Schneiderlin, Theo Walcott, Sandro Ramirez, Oumar Niasse, Cenk Tosun and Yannick Bolasie because of the ridiculous wages they are on and I doubt if we could even get rid of them on frees, so until we sell those players can we make whole sale changes. If we don't we are going to get hit with fines and point deductions from the fair play crap.

Anybody who thinks we can buy our way out of this mess is in for a big shock, I have already read that unless we qualify for Europe this year the fair play body will be taking a big magnifying glass to Everton's business dealings that could result in more heart ache if we are close to the relegation zone
Alan J Thompson
115 Posted 06/01/2020 at 05:10:49
On the pre-match page I wrote that I winced every time I saw Schneiderlin on the starting team and somebody answered that it was because he was the most senior midfield player available, not one word about him never having a decent game or put in the effort in the last three years.

If I were Ancellotti I'd publicly display a list of all those players for whom we will listen to any offer for in this transfer window.
Shame the bastards!

James Hughes
116 Posted 06/01/2020 at 05:21:06
Not seen any of it as I am the in NZ having a great time. Got woken by a meme from a mate of kids having their bath and the caption was-
Liverpool players celebrate another Derby win.
I might just stop here,
Paul Ferry
117 Posted 06/01/2020 at 05:25:39
It is beyond the pale that there are people on here who think that Ancelotti deserves no blame for what in the second half was the most shameful performance I have ever witnessed in five decades of being blue – worse, even, than the 0-5 Rush/Keeley 1982 derby. Equally, I find it ridiculous to say that the result would have been different if talisman so-called ‘legend’ Ferguson had been in charge.

It was Ancelotti’s idea to start Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson. He picked the wrong shape and did little or nothing to change things. He picked Digne ahead of Baines. He had no answer to the high press that led to such fannying around at the back. He watched the goalie and back four pass it round the back like they were on ice knowing that there was not the pace in midfield to collect the ball and run with it but did nothing in his substitutions to address this, certainly not Delph. We needed to play the long ball more often, mind you when we did some pubescent in a red shirt dealt with it. Presumably, any tactical talk at half-time either fell on deaf incapable ears or was misguided or both. He left Schniederlin on the pitch until the final whistle. There is more to say on this but it seems to me that Ancelotti is the author of these mistakes.

That said, some of the vitriol aimed at him on this thread is shameful. He was a stranger a fortnight ago and a fortnight is enough for some to lampoon and lambast him and worse. That’s pathetic. Today was a travesty and Ancelotti must shoulder blame, but he can only work with what he has been dealt and in his pattern of multiple formations and shapes (in one game) and selections and substitutions he is clearly trying different options not to be a miracle worker but to learn. And he will learn. The intelligence and acumen that has been accumulated for several decades now does not jump ship because he has joined us and, importantly for me, he brings a sharp and wise outside eye to our squad. I wouldn’t pick a single one of them for my Premiership fantasy team.

The lion’s share of blame for that unforgivable and brutally atrocious second ’45 sits with the ‘players’. I’m not going to recycle the litany of sometimes thoughtful analysis and all-too-often primary school dog’s invective showered on the players and some in particular already on this thread. But collectively they were a spineless shambles for all of that second half. There was no reaction to the teenager’s goal that I could see apart from abject admission of defeat. It worried me that this gutless group – on the basis of the second half – did not react to either the goal or Ancelotti’s disapproving eye on the touchline. That last failure is not an indictment of the manager but of those headless chickens on the pitch, and it shows in graphic detail the job ahead of him. Another good reason why he was a stranger a fortnight ago, he has zero emotional and historical baggage and will do what is necessary.

The ‘end is nigh’ stuff on here is farcical. I agree with a lot of what Mike Dolan says on this thread but not all of it. Watching the lads pounce on him like Indians circling wagons is disappointing. He is being far more realistic than his more extreme naysayers.

I have high hopes that we will be in a better position this time next year. But my God so much needs to be done to get there and I do believe that Ancelotti has what it takes to make it happen.

Derek Knox
118 Posted 06/01/2020 at 06:05:32
Alan J @ 115, I have shared that feeling about Schneiderlin ever since he has been at the Club, I know he has some on here that beat the drum for him, I fail to see why.

I dread seeing his name on any team sheet, he seems to spread that disease to all around him without getting involved, and how anyone can 'disappear' on a pitch of 22 is beyond me, but he manages it!

The writing was on the wall when Unsworth was temporarily in charge at Finch Farm when he and Mirallas were dismissed from Training for not showing the right attitude and not getting involved enough, and being disruptive to team-mates.

What has changed since then?

Well Mirallas has moved on, but this maggot is still there. People will no doubt come on and still defend his corner, and point the finger at me, saying I always have it in for him, yes, I wonder why is my answer to them.

Why have successive Managers still picked him? I sincerely hope there has not been pressure from a certain area of the Board, to the effect, he cost £25M and is one of the highest earners you have to play him!

You only have to have one rotten apple in a barrel, and the rest will shortly follow suit!

David Pearl
119 Posted 06/01/2020 at 06:09:47
Kind of embarrassing to keep hearing just about Schneiderlin and Walcott. Both played okay apart from two strikes from the edge of the box that showed up his lack of confidence. Walcott was our best player first half and really we should of gone in at half time a couple goals up.

Second half was a complete disgrace. Ancelottis eyebrow was raised higher than his head.

Kean is awful. If you thought Lukaku had a bad first touch this kid takes it to a whole new level. It's like watching someone play pinball. DCL and Richarlison can't do it week in week out so yes we desperately need a top striker. Also needed is a midfield general.

At the back both full backs Digne and Sidibe were so bad words can't describe it.

A lot needed. What a joke of a game. Were they embarrassed to be facing their second string? We need Gbamin back, we need something. A few years in now and Moshiri has spent a fortune on mediocre players.

I sat shivering in the desert last night in darkness... I could have cried. Ffs it couldn't get any worse. Could it?

Neil Gribbin
120 Posted 06/01/2020 at 06:28:05
Half of this shower of wimps know that they are going to be sold. Therefore, they do not care. I truly would beast them to within an inch of their lives today. Let’s see who has, and hasn’t got a backbone. I think we all know who would pull a sickie. They disgust me. They truly do. We have had years of being embarrassed, but this time? Unforgivable
Paul A Smith
121 Posted 06/01/2020 at 06:32:33
Derek 118 I think I enjoy your posts more than most. Straight and true. I think Schniederlin is still here because Brands had him going to Besiktas but because he had left Silva with Delph who you can't rely on and Gbamin who needed time.

Remember Silva saying we can't lose Schneiderlin now? Thats part of why he looked fed up before the Palace game. Left with scraps

Nigel Gregson
122 Posted 06/01/2020 at 06:54:57
We need to rebuild with these gone :
- Schneiderlin
- Walcott
- Sigurdsson
- Tosun (tbf he didn't play yesterday)
- Niasse (he didnt play either but is still on the books for no reason)
- Martina (hopefully gone by summer)
- Walcott
- Delph

More to the point - we should NEVER buy rejects from other clubs on the wrong side of 20s looking for a final pay cheque. There aren't any more Barry's and Milners left.

Russ Quinlan
123 Posted 06/01/2020 at 07:35:12
I havent had time to read the comments above yet but I expect what I'm going to say will be similar.
I have supported this team since before 1963 and I honestly say that 2nd half is the most humiliating 45 minutes of football I have witnesses from any team in my life. How can I stop this anger, I lost sleep last night thinking about how some of those players were strolling around the park not giving a shit about the shirt. Us supporters go though agony yet these bstards will turn up and get paid thousands for a performance like that, its disgusting. I cant imagine how the 8000 must have felt being there and living with the consequences living in the city. Some of those players should never wear a blue shirt again, if I did my job as bad as they do (and some on a regular basis) I'd be sacked, simple, contract or not. We just can't 'turn off' the anger watching that sort of performance, some players will just not case less, Astone Villa beat that team easily yet we couldn't get a single shot on target in the 2nd half, pathetic. I wish I could just not support that shower of crap, but we cant can we, its in our blood, and it hurts to think it will be a long long time before this crap is sorted. I basically hate the club at the moment, I hope they do something to change that.
Jim Bennings
124 Posted 06/01/2020 at 07:47:37
I’d be quite happy to not see another single Everton related conversation all season, I want nothing more to do with the club after that shambles yesterday.

We hit the the lowest point yesterday in the clubs entire Merseyside derby history.

We’ve had 20 years from hell in that fixture and yesterday was a chance to go there and completely punish them with a heavy score line for all the years we’ve suffered, the embarrassment we’ve had.

But not a single one of our players rocked up yesterday and looked even remotely like a Premier League football player.

From the appalling snail paced passing at the back, the shambolic distribution from Holgate and Mina turning like a Ocean Cruise Liner to Pickford jerking about at the back with knobhead kicking right through to our anonymous midfield and striking options.

The whole team was a collective disgrace to the Blue shirt and has now taken a new low in the embarrassment stakes, it’s finally bottomed out it’s horror record in derby matches.

The players WILL get Carlo Ancelotti the sack, I’m certain of it.

Just as they said it’s brilliant working under Marco Silva and then put in diabolical performance levels they’ll do the same under Ancelotti and as we know now it’s always the manager that takes the bullet.

One thing I can feel confident of though is those players that played yesterday, I hope they now understand that performance and result has finally been the straw that broke the camels back and once and for all severed what weak bond this current group had with the fans.

There are no players out there the fans want to like anymore.

Derek Knox
125 Posted 06/01/2020 at 07:48:52
Paul A @121, thanks but I always try to express my views and opinions as I see it.

As I said before many don't like it, but I truly believe that everyone is entitled to their opinions and views, and equally that they have the opportunity to print them on these pages.

I often wonder just what is going on at Board Level, every team has bought the odd rabbit for the price of a Tiger. We seem to have a complete Zoo full of rabbits masquerading as every animal that Noah managed to get into his Ark.

What the hell is going on?

Who is behind all this total incompetence?

I could hazard a guess, but sincerely hope there is nothing more sinister afoot. Like I have said many a time, it's all very well people saying (insert a name) should never play for us again, get rid as soon as possible.

These goons are on Set for Life Lottery style wages and contracts, safe in the knowledge that they have hit the Jackpot, and provided they don't become prodigal or a prolific gambler, or take to substance abuse will be made for life.

It is not easy to get rid, who will buy them, or even loan them, when even half the wages or whatever is agreed is way over the top to start with?

Unfortunately, we as fans are in it for life, these players who genuinely respect and play for the badge seem to be so far away, only to be replaced by pretenders and mercenaries.

Jack Convery
126 Posted 06/01/2020 at 07:51:48
This has to be a watershed moment in Evertons history. If not make no mistake this lot will get us relegated sooner or later. A defeat of this magnitude MUST lead to a complete change in how this club is run. Board members who have over seen the recruitment of players, apparently worth over £450m should resign immediately. Players who so obviously cannot perform at this level should be loaned out this month and yes I mean Siggy, Keane, Schneids Delph, and Walcott. Tosun, Niasse and Boalsie should go too, along with Besic and Dowell. Others should be put on notice - Digne has been awful this season. - Sidibe told if he wants to stay you have to be consistent, Davies show us you are learning and perform on the pitch, Richy stop sulking and get on with it, DCL stop fawning to Ancellotti ( the privilege is wearing the Everton shirt ) and Kean, if you can't figure it our with Carlo as your boss when will you. You are all playing for a once great club that has become the laughing stock of the EPL and I for one am totally sick of it.

I cried yesterday - the last time Ic ried I was 7 when Jeff Astle ruined my dream of seeing EFC win the FA Cup - we didn't have a TV in 66. Yesterday something died within me - thank you Everton.

Rob Hooton
127 Posted 06/01/2020 at 08:03:21
Shocking, shameful, shower of shit.

I have NEVER been ashamed to be an Everton fan, until yesterday. It might be time to just pack it in now and focus on the good things in life as this is just miserable.

All of the players should be docked a months wages to go to charity for their unprofessionalism and cowardice. I cannot write the insults that they deserve as it would be as disgusting as that performance.

Andrew Ellams
128 Posted 06/01/2020 at 08:05:40
Jack, it can't be a watershed moment. Our billionaire messiah has run up a £100m in losses, pushed the wage bill to a point where it contravenes FFP rules and at the same time managed to put together a squad that isn't good enough for the top half of the table and now there's no money to replace any of the gutless cowards that failed to turn up yesterday. We are looking at a botton 6 finish this season and God only knows what next year. Will Ancelotti even stay beyond this summer if he finds out the cupboard really is bare?
Paul A Smith
129 Posted 06/01/2020 at 08:13:38
Derek 125 its been building and I am not being horrible or whatever way people want to see it but everyone praised everything the board done so them people should be quiet now.

We have fans that have seen us win titles and trophies calling certain players very good or high potential because of a few moments and its sad. We haven't got anything classy and I knew it when it came through the door.

Look at them horrors across the park compared to us. Even fan wise. They wouldn't have slagged Lukaku all over Social media. They make important players feel important and loved. They stick together. They strive for the top.

Our fans say nothing when we sign a rivals dead wood and then moan when its too late. Its more frustrating than expecting Schneiderlin to play well. Worst still we didn't even kick a fuss when we we selling Lukaku to United who were one place above us.
Sell him abroad if thats the case, didn't even enter heads.

Shocking from bottom to top.

Jim Bennings
130 Posted 06/01/2020 at 08:18:18
There won’t be any watershed moments I’m afraid because we’ve had numerous over the years and not been able to change mentality.

You simply can’t buy a winning mentality that’s drilled into the players that you buy, that’s why every player Liverpool sign all knows that it’s “win at all costs” losing is not a mentality they will accept.

At Everton for too long the players got comfortable with staying in the league and punching above their weight.

The only way to change that would be to sign mega players like City have, Aguero, Kevin de Bruyne ect but that’s just never going to happen here at Everton.

Whilst we keep signing castoffs and putting faith in players that are never going to move you forward, performances like yesterday are fast becoming the norm at this club.

Ancelotti will not be able to change it, yesterday has convinced me of that now.

He’s like a billionaire mogul that’s decided to buy a used car for a novelty but will quickly realise that it irreparable and beyond fixing.

Derek Taylor
131 Posted 06/01/2020 at 08:28:26
'We shall be in a better position this time next year' is a quote seen all too often on here. That so many Evertonians wish their lives away in the cause of patience gets a bit annoying when you are past eighty because time is so precious.

All our new would-be saviour could offer us this morning was that he now had a whole week to address the problems. Most of us would tell him that a whole year will not be long enough !

Jim Bennings
132 Posted 06/01/2020 at 08:32:35
We all know hand on heart if being truthful that this time next year we’ll be having the same discussions and the same tripe will be pulled out.

It’s always “this time next year” with Everton, we are the Delboy of football.

It hasn’t taken Leicester years to get a good team has it?

6 years ago they are a Championship club and look at them since, League Champions in 2016, and probably two Champions League appearances and a League Cup Final.

Wolves under Nuno, win promotion and are instantly a braver bolder better team than us, players that care about the fans.

Everton are a stuck in the mud disgrace.

Bill Fairfield
133 Posted 06/01/2020 at 08:38:11
When Carlo was at Milan he had Gennaro Gattuso a player of energy,aggression,work rate,passion and commitment,an absolute leader and inspiration to all the great players around him and fans alike.Compare him to the senior midfield players at our club,pedestrian,passionless,uninspiring and a very poor example to all the fine young players we have.These players have to be changed asap
Jim Bennings
134 Posted 06/01/2020 at 08:40:25
Bill

I know it offends people but I’m not sure I see all these “fine young players we have”.

I’m sorry but I just don’t.

Fine young players are what you seen on show at Liverpool yesterday, trained to be crisp passers of the ball, confident with the ball at their feet, shooting and high energy.

Our young players are coached poorly that’s why virtually none have been able to make a big impact in the Premier League, forget the Under 23 title, that’s not what we need, we need players coached with the ability of comfortably making the step to and there’s a reason why four managers now don’t select anything from the Under 23’s.


But I do agree with you on the other part, the senior players have the personality of a frying pan.

Ray Roche
135 Posted 06/01/2020 at 08:51:50
I’m a bit concerned about Ancellotti to be honest. He’s had, surely, enough time to realise what we already know, we don’t have the quality players to play out from the back. Against City and yesterday we were pressured into making mistakes by fitter, hungrier players. What was the point of trying to play out from the back when we have no midfield? Apart from a couple of Easter Island statues in Schniederlin and Sigurdsson? They should never play for Everton again. The gap between a terrified Mina and DCL ridiculous.
Andrew Hight
136 Posted 06/01/2020 at 08:58:56
Concerned with Carlo? He’s come in during the busiest time of year for fixtures and already confirmed not had them on the training ground yet nor will he have had a great deal of insight into the EFC squad prior to his arrival. He’s now seen them play 5 games straight and hopefully start putting his ideas and strengths to work. Give him a bit of time at least
Franny Porter
137 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:03:44
I know we have a small pool of midfielders to choose from, but right now, I would be happy to NEVER see Schneiderlien or Sigurdsson pull on an Everton shirt again.

They weren't the only culprits but fuck me they were the worst. Notice MS rolling around on the floor before the goal. Two absolute fcuking cowards.

As poor as he is, Davies every game from now on in and possibly the walking fcuking crock that is the over rated Delph if he can go two hours without getting injured.

Joe McMahon
138 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:03:49
Jim you are correct about Wolves et al. What also concerns me is WTF is happening with Unsworth. We know he has a cosy number, but our Academy players (non of them) look anything like the players Liverpool are churning out. Its sickening. Liverpool are gonna dominate for years. While over at Everton EITC is doing great things.
Ray Roche
139 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:06:39
Andrew, I’m not saying “Carlo out”, I’d just like to hear his reasoning in playing a system that we know doesn’t work with the players we’ve got. Twice.
Ferguson could see that, as a short term fix, playing long from the back brought us results by cutting out an ineffectual midfield.
Ray Roche
140 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:08:23
Franny, Delph would get injured on Question Of Sport.
Mal van Schaick
141 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:08:53
Like his predecessors Ancellotti needs a clear out and a fresh start with new players, or else it will be more of the same. I’m not going to name names, we know who they are.

Ancellotti must have been given assurances by the board regarding players irrespective of announcing record losses. Maybe he has to sell to buy in January and rebuild on the summer. League status is paramount until Ancellotti builds his squad.

Ray Roche
142 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:16:05
We hear that Ancellotti can adjust his mindset to accommodate the “tools” that are available to him. I look forward to him making a silk purse out of the bag of shite pig’s ears that he has inherited. But he’ll need to start going back to basics with that shower of thick as mince mercenaries.
Playing out from the back? Really?
Geoff Williams
143 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:16:24
Ancelloti has his work cut out to convince Evertonians that he has the know-how and passion to change things after that debacle. The goodwill and excitement surrounding his appointment has evaporated as far as many of us are concerned. Unless he tells the likes of Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin and Walcott that they are not part of his future plans and are free to find new clubs then he'll have very little credibility with the fans. The ball is in your court Mr Ancelloti please prove to us that the hype around your appointment is justified or are you just another has been!
Kevin Prytherch
144 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:18:05
Joe - 138
Unsworth generally doesn’t get academy players until they’re 18 so to lay all the blame on him is harsh...

In any case, 3 of our best performers recently have been Holgate, Davies and Calvert-Lewin, who all had significant spells under Unsworth, whilst we have Kenny playing well in Germany and 2 lads who have recently left playing extremely well in a (albeit struggling) championship side (Williams and Robinson).

We had a talented group of kids a few years ago, (Kenny, Robinson, Holgate, Connolly, Davies, Williams, Dowell, Lookman, DCL)Most of whom didn’t get a chance, their progress suffered as a result.

Maybe the issue isn’t Unsworth himself, but how aligned the academy sides are to the first team and the progression from U23 level to the first team. As some have pointed out, the U23’s seem to play a different way to the first team, Liverpool’s kids knew exactly what they were all doing.

Mike Corcoran
145 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:22:31
It can’t get worse than yesterday. Give Carlo a few weeks of normal training and we’ll traipse safely to the finish line. The only way is up. Don’t let it ruin yer life on the way.
Joe McMahon
146 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:23:24
Geoff@143 Carlo Ancelotti is not a has been. Look at his record. What he won't have ever done however is manage a team so low in quality and fight. Not one of the Everton squad has a winning mentality. Those Tossers in blue shirts couldn't even raise their game for us suffering fans against a weakened Liverpool side.

Carlo will be in shock at what's he's come to. I don't want him to walk in the summer but it's not out of the question.

Derek Knox
147 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:28:32
Ray @140, yes and " What Happens Next "? :-)
Jim Bennings
148 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:28:35
The playing it out from the back is a joke, it’s not football that you can play in the English league without world class players because you just get closed down too quickly, not every team is like us, knackered and can’t be arsed pressing.

If we’d played that game yesterday like we played Chelsea under Dunc we’d have won it 4-1 because their kids would have struggled defensively.

We are bad enough to go down and looking at the league table we are far from safe so I can’t look up after that performance yesterday, much more like that and we’ll be right back in the bottom four.

Lenny Kingman
149 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:35:14
Nick #97

Are you a kopite taking the piss. 10 league titles and 6 European cups behind them you say.

What might happen if you could please enlighten us. Focus on us and not them. Jeez what do you think we are and have been doing for uncountable decades.

Bill Fairfield
150 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:36:00
Jim@134

Jim I think that's says more about the managers than the players coming through
Martin Mason
151 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:36:49
It must be difficult for Liverpool supporters to even show triumphalism now. We're just not worth it any more. It's the end for us as the last resort was all we needed was a good manager but the reality is not even a good manager. Now in addition to our grossly overpaid team we have a grossly overpaid and overqualified manager with a team of overpaid lackeys.
Simon Jones
152 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:37:10
Remember the old days of football when managers would Transfer List the whole team for a performance like that?
Brent Stephens
153 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:37:11
Paul #117 excellent post. Well balanced.
Allan Board
154 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:41:05
This current set of fraudsters? Big on talk, big I ams at FINCH FARM, big on being piss takers, big on being all show, big on having pathetic little cliques, big on telling us how good they are, big on being disrespectful, big on being disloyal, big on excuses, big on being completely unprofessional, big on being cowards, big on being immature, big on being lazy, big on laughing up the fans backs, big on bullshit, big on thinking of their own importance and abilities,big on being selfish, big on being thick as shit.Big on being show ponies.
I actually saw smirks on the subs bench yesterday. What a wonderful bunch of chaps we have representing Everton Football Club.
Not one can be trusted to stand up and be counted so it will never change until all of them are gone.
This has been coming for 20+years because of a lack of due diligence on the part of owner's, staff, player's.
If you truly want this to change, vote with your feet ladies and gents, they deserve neither your loyalty and certainly not your hard earned.
Show no loyalty to these, bad apples need crushing.
The bottom of the barrel is nearly in sight, scraping the bottom is relegation. Stick with these fuckers and it will happen.
Who the fuck do they think they are, looks like they have already turned on another manager, who quite frankly was and is a different breed to these losers.
This will be his finest hour if he can turn this circus round. The look on his face was one of total bewilderment and incredulity of how crap these are as men 1st and sportsmen 2nd.
My abiding memory is of our left back having to kick a 16 Yr old to get any joy and that loser snidelin chickening out of tackles against kids, until there backs are turned, then he went straight through them. There's words for people like you mate, fucking bully.

They need hammering,to the point of desperation for this.

Tom Dodds
155 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:42:23
If I was John Pilger (ir sports journalist equivalent( investigating the whole of Everton's downward recent history I would ultimately summise that it was'nt the fact that it was Kenwright who bought the club in the first place,but his refusal to sell the club when his good choice (then) of David Moyes was making the club look like it was going places even without top players.

But no,he wouldnt.
Until finally he envagles a (football billionaire) Mug,who agrees to keep him in the forefront/chair and full time earwig.

And to those who keep saying he saved us . Yes he did.

He saved us at that period from investors who would of invested Wisely in the new prem/Sky money windfall and booted the "true blue" parasire into the Mersey.

Derek Knox
156 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:42:56
Mike C, @145, while I agree with what you say, a large group of supporters who have followed Everton for years, and I include myself in that group, feel physically sick after poor performances and defeat.

I would be very surprised if ANY of the players even feel a tad of remorse, and don't let it affect them one iota.

They were probably all out at expensive restaurants with their WAG's tucking in to a Steak that probably cost more than the Ticket admission to Goodison per portion.

Then jumping in to their expensive cars and going home having had a good evening, and eventually having a peaceful night's sleep.

Before anyone accuses me of jealousy, no far from it, money does not mean a great deal to me, but Everton do, and being able to share that experience with a lot of genuine other Blue supporters is worth far more.

At least it was!

Jim Bennings
157 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:49:02
Nah Bill I’m sorry but it all on the players and the roots at this club.

Fans turn on managers quickly, Martinez, Allardyce, Koeman and Silva all got dogs abuse but players get off freely.

It’s now time the finger was pointed firmly at every single player at this club, young and old, they all lack the hunger and desire and passion to work hard and learn.

Tom Dodds
158 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:49:41
And before people jump on the band wagon that we could of got the Venkys etc.just remember that Every one of the real interested parties could of bought and sold him...And thereby given Moyes the shrewd buyer the money for 'those' players he brilliantly identified and became stars/superstars in the prem.
Fran Mitchell
159 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:51:44
We are gonna have to live with the shame of that game for a long time no doubt I'm not the only blue receiving memes, many actually quite witty, that can only cause us shame.

Liverpool are everything we are not, and they have arguably the best manager in the world with a coaching set up, scouting networks etc to back it up

Our signings have been woeful, and management and coaching of younger players equally bad.

Think of this way, if you're son was a highly gifted young football player, where would you want him to hone his talents? Everton or Liverpool?

For me, no question. Liverpool every time.

I bet the likes of Antony Gordon must have watched yesterday thinking, 'if only'

Brent Stephens
160 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:55:32
I guess there'll be a fairly silent "welcome" for them all when they step out on the pitch on Saturday. Not necessarily through any intentional message but just through sheer emptiness. The atmosphere is going to be horrible. Even if we score and win on Saturday, it might be a muted reaction.

It'll be interesting to see the fans' reaction when we go to West Ham, as well.

Ray Roche
161 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:58:00
Brent, I won't be there because I'm on holiday, but you know what? I'm not even going to bother listening to the game on my phone. I'm sick of this club heaping misery onto decent fans.
George McKane
162 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:58:17
For me, it is frustration that creates the most tension within - - right now I feel so much frustration with the whole Club - - The Board, Players and Management - - not with the fans - - our only true asset - - I can sense the obvious frustration on TW with writers having a dig at each other and names being called - - the main question for me is "What can we do about it".

The answer it would seem is "nothing" and that causes the tensions between friends and colleagues.

I/we could:

- - stop going to the match
- - stop watching them completely
- - not engage on TW with anybody
- - go to the match and Boo and scream and call individual players names (some of who deserve to be told what they have done to us and OUR Club - -but again - - frustration - - because how do we tell them)
- - change Clubs
- - hate Everton

None of these for me but I am still cursed with a brain and a Blue Heart and a Blue Soul and my frustration is growing.

Do not want to hear anything about the stadium for a while - - or EITC - - or replaceable paper cups or Operation Goodison - - just want to see changes and passion and pride somehow returned to our Club something that has been clearly missing for a long long time.


Bill Fairfield
163 Posted 06/01/2020 at 09:59:41
Yes Jim but this was my original point there is no inspirational senior players to learn from,we've filled our squad with overpaid failures at the expense of progression from within the club
Steve Brown
164 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:04:31
@ Paul @ 117, excellent post that summarises the defeat perfectly. Get back to posting on here Paul please.

Ancelotti got the selection and tactics wrong, but he will have learned a huge amount about the shameless and cowardly senior pros that sadly we as supporters have know for a long time. No pride, no standards and no character.

I know it feels like deserting a sinking ship, but I am tempted to zone out from Everton until the start of next season. It will give Brands and Ancelotti two transfer windows to continue reshaping the squad and will save me stress and extreme irritability. Most of all, it will hopefully mean I never have to watch Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin and Walcott in an Everton shirt again.

Hugh Jenkins
165 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:13:27
Fran 159 - but that is not strictly true.

Our U23 were PL 2 Champions two years ago and are doing well again now - having had a "new" intake from lower age groups in the academy.

So, clearly, our coaching at that level is working well.

The rot starts at the senior level.

It is easy to be critical, but, having tried to address the obvious void in midfield by the permanent signing of Gomes and the signing of Gbamin in the last window, who could have envisaged that both of them would have been out of the side due to long term injuries in their fist full season with us?

They were scheduled to be the new "engine room" for the side, and we lost them both.

Delph, I grant you, I can't understand as he was injury prone to start with - but was surely meant to be just a back up, used very occasionally.

So, the pairing of Siggy and Schneids at CM should never have been - but it was forced on us by circumstances and the result is there for all to see.

That is not bad management - its damned bad luck.

Hopefully, with the advent of our new manager, our luck will also change - it needs to.

Clive Rogers
166 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:16:12
It’s not just the players that need a clear out. The coaching staff do also. They are apparently a bunch of Kenwright yes men and old boys. It was obvious yesterday that our players are not even fit. While we are at it, why have we got a part time chairman who is a proven disaster and consistently puts his own interests as chairman before the club’s.
Fran Mitchell
167 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:16:47
Our clear weakness is midfield. Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin are a disgrace and how they can take home their respective 100k weekly wages without an sense of shame is beyond me.

And Delph is falling well short of the expectations we had for him, injury prone, and when fit, not all that effective.

Hopefully we'll be rid of all 3.

However I disagree with some people's assertion that we need a 'big, mean bastard' in the middle. I understand such shouts, but the days of your Vinny Jones' is long gone.

What we need is Gana. He is the only player we've had who can press like the best of them, his speed, energy, work rate and intelligence was incredible. And since he has gone, our midfield has wilted. I can't remember a single game where our midfield 'won the battle' and controlled a game.

So we don't need a mean bastard to scare the opposing midfield and rally our troops, we need a real midifeld warrior.

In Gana we had, and lost, and for.such a small fee too which is sickening. But until we resolve this glaring weaknesses, were done for.

Derek Knox
168 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:19:07
Yes Paul @ 117, apart from the odd cameo appearance you have been noticeably absent. I presume you are still in the Chicago area?

While on the subject of absenteeism your mate Kevin Tully, has seemed to do a Houdini too. Surely we can't go any lower, well we can, but that's unthinkable, but like George McKane says many of us still have Blue Hearts, and even if the players can't or won't, we will survive!

Sam Hoare
169 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:23:42
Hugh@165 The sign of success at academy level is not winning meaningless trophies such as the PL2 but developing the players to be ready for the first team.

The more time goes on the more I suspect that Unsworth may be targeting the former more than the latter.

The notable thing about the RS kids is that they all were able to play immediately withing their philosophy, high pressing, high intensity etc. When Klopp arrived he installed a unity of purpose and style throughout the club so that all the youth teams play in the same style as the senior teams.

I'm pretty sure that still does not happen at Everton. The U23s were playing a different style and formation to Silva's 4231 very frequently. Of course it's difficult to match identity when there is no clear one!

Also Unsworth was and is playing older players like Charsley who have no future at the club and thus blocking time for younger players. Perhaps putting results for the team (and him as manager) above the development of players for the first team. I don't know many of the ins and outs but have read some pieces by people who are more in the picture and allude to some differences between Brands and Unsworth over these matters.

One thing I do know is that there have been very few players over the last 3 years who have come from the academy to play regular games for the first team. The last batch was Dowell, Kenny and Davies and they moved up around 3 years ago.

Dave Williams
170 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:26:09
The problems lay in midfield. The defence were clearly under instructions to play it out from the back but time and again Coleman,Holgate and Mina were penned in twenty yards from our goal with no blue shirt to pass to.
They then lost possession or passed to a player already pinned back and that is when players who are low on confidence panic and their first touch deserts them.
To me we should have gone with five in midfield- the game was crying out for Tom Davies to come on and put himself about. Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin were completely lost, their lads ran them ragged and it was the absence of any support for the defence in the second half which led to such a poor display ie. we did not have a midfield.
Sidibe is a strange player- looks good in some games but he has no consistency and we must not sign him. We need Kenny back if his loan allows it this season. Digne looks ill at ease and Baines will surely come in for Brighton.
The most disturbing aspect of yesterday was the lack of any rallying on the pitch. As someone else has posted Reid/ Ball/ Ratcliffe would have had team mates by the throat if they were performing like that in a derby match but from what I could see from the TV only Mina seemed bothered at what was going on.
Carlo will have learned a lot from the last two games. Whether he persevered with that midfield because he thought that the City game was one where we wouldn’t show up well because they were so good I do wonder, but yesterday exposed the problems for all to see. It’s no good blaming that performance on him or on the board of directors for God’s sake. This is down to players who failed in the basics of what is a simple game- pass,control and move- we had none of that and they had plenty. I’m sure the board was as shocked as we were to see that display. Carlo had every right to expect senior players to cope with that RS team and they let him, us and the club down.
Carlos test is Brighton as he surely cannot give those senior players another chance. Anthony Gordon and his mates should train like there is no tomorrow this week and give Carlo some fresh options- maybe we have one or two young lads who can make it- there’s only one way to find out!
Sam Hoare
171 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:30:32
Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson and Delph cost around £80m between them. All have struggled to make meaningful impact at times and all will have severely diminished or no resale value.

Meanwhile Liverpool bought Minamino for £7m. Yesterday was his debut having not played for a good few weeks and I thought he looked one of the best players on the pitch. Quick, hard working, excellent touch and good vision. He's only 24 and though it's early days i'd not be the least surprised if he's worth 4 times as much in 2 years time. Plus he'll help them shift a load of shirts in Asia. That is exactly the sort of signing that a well run, canny recruitment department is making!

Brent Stephens
172 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:34:37
Ray #161, enjoy your holiday, wherever it is (I think you might have said previously you're off somewhere exotic). In the best possible sense, I really hope your self-imposed exile from the "wireless" means you miss out on some enthralling football.

Enjoy your break.

Brian Williams
173 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:36:47
There's absolutely nothing wrong with playing it out from the back and all our back four are capable of doing it. (wait for it).
What they seem totally incapable of is realizing when they SHOULDN'T fucking play it out from the back and simply dink one over the top or a diagonal ball to the front.
There were times when Mina looked as though he really didn't want to get rid up field but he'd rather put us under pressure and embarrass the fuck out of us supporters rather than lose face and get rid.
But that wasn't the main problem yesterday.
The main problem was, as they used to say in my auld fella's day "lack of moral fibre."
We'd say lack of bottle these days.
Ahh fuck it I really can't be arsed carrying on with this post. The players can't be arsed why should I?
Andrew Ellams
174 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:39:42
I think anybody expecting personnel changes on Saturday beyond a couple of swap overs with players who started on the bench yesterday are going to be disappointed. Davies, Delph and Bernard, maybe Moise Kean in for Sigurddson, Schneiderlin, Walcott and Calvert-Lewin.
Rennie Smith
175 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:44:35
Yes I’m embarrassed by our 2nd half “performance”, desperate is being too kind, and I’ve been in hiding from the Norwegians ever since, but I can’t believe some of the people on here digging out Ancelotti (or even Rhino FFS, he wasn’t even there!). He’s won 3-times more serious trophies than Klopp, that’s not by accident, and for all those saying he’s not used to the Premiership style, he won with Chelsea in 2010. These are probably the same people that were declaring their amazement at his appointment.

People are talking about the confidence of the RS youngsters, If one of those golden 1st half chances had gone in they would have crumbled, like they did against the Villa. We gave them confidence, we let them grow into the game. If that scally hadn’t picked out a worldy the match probably would have fizzled out to a nil-nil, what else did Pickford have to deal with?

Someone early in the thread described this as a watershed moment, that’s exactly what it needs to be. Clear out the shite, let Carlo attract the talent (if there’s money?) and let’s completely start again. I know we’ve had many start again moments, but this one feels like it could be different. I live in hope and as we all know, it’s the hope that kills you. COYB

Nicholas Ryan
176 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:50:35
My daughter and one of my step-sons, are Reds [it's a long story!]. When we do badly, they are instantly taking the Mickey out of me. After yesterday... silence. We've sunk to such a low, that they don't even bother to take the Mickey anymore!

My other stepson, who's a Blue, [and a rugby player] says he's going to watch Sale Sharks from now on!

Steve Brown
177 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:51:02
Dave @ 170, I agree about the midfield. But Liverpool’s midfield is functional at best as they are there to press. Creativity comes mainly from diagonal balls or crosses from the fullbacks, long balls over the top from defence and midfield and great interplay from the front three.

Liverpool’s teams all play the same pressing style at all levels and they have top pros to mentor and role model the young players as they transition into the first team. The senior pros at Everton are the problem.

I don’t think that Unsworth can be blamed for securing two PL2 titles and not mirroring the style and formation of the first team - 4-2-3-1 and ten tons of shit across four managers is probably a benchmark he wisely chose to ignore. We probably have been too sentimental about certain young players, but that mentality seeps through the entire club. Unsworrh has done well in getting DCL, Davies, Kenny and Holgate in and around first team football. They then struggle to make the same impact as Liverpool’s youngsters do as they are surrounded by garbage senior pros when they get there.

Rob Dolby
178 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:52:18
Sam 171.

Like Li Tie or Wi Fang?

Does that put us 20 years ahead of them marketing wise?

Like Ferguson at Utd. Wenger at Arsenal, Guardiola at City. The most important person at any club is the manager.

We have undoubtedly a top manager. Moshiri has to back him to the hilt, fair play or no fair play otherwise we may as well have appointed Dyche or Howe.

Christopher Timmins
179 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:52:53
Yesterday's performance was outrageous and it results from bad decision making at all levels dating back to the end of the Moyes era. Some, Walsh and Keoman, are more to blame than others, Brands, Silva and Martinez, but nobody should escape blame for the most humiliating performance in memory.

We were outclassed and out fought by a group of kids, however, yesterday may provide a silver lining as it will waken Carlo up to the task that he faces and the need for some additions between now and the end of the month.

Zaha, in the summer, and Moyes, a couple of weeks ago, were lucky in the extreme not to find there way to Finch Farm.

The hard work now begins and for those who think the season is over well you can think again, there is at least 1 team in the bottom 3 capable of catching us between now and the end of the season.

Steve Brown
180 Posted 06/01/2020 at 10:53:47
Let’s all remember, there is only one premier league winning manager on Merseyside right now and it ain’t Juergen Klopp.
Paul Tran
181 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:02:01
Fran, I'm not advocating Vinny Jones. I'd like a bigger version of Gana, with a bit a character that will bollock the slackers and hiders.

Nothing wrong with passing out from the back if you have midfielders that make themselves available. Davies would have done that more than who was out there. That was Carlo's mistake.

In the first half we did better when we played it long. Klopp sussed that out and in the second half they pressed us right back. And we let them. We gave up.

Their average age was 22, ours was 26. That game was a great advert for their academy, mentality, recruitment and joined-up thinking from youth to senior. It was a damning indictment of ours.

Rob Halligan
182 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:13:14
There is a "Winter Break" for all premier league clubs in mid feb. We have now got an additional two winter breaks to look forward too!!

I spent all night tossing and turning, running that pathetic second half performance through my head again and again. The last time I felt as low as this was when we got beat by Shrewsbury. It's not so much the result that's the killer, it's not even the fact that we got beat by the RS. It's the fact that it was their Fucking kids. The record books will only say Liverpool 1 - 0 Everton but we will forever have it rammed down our throats it was "Their Kids". That's why I feared the worst when I heard their team before the match.

Jim Bennings, you say this lot will get Ancelotti the sack. Not going to argue with you over this, as I think this lot could get father Christmas the sack! I've said since Ancelotti was appointed, that if he can't revive the club, then nobody can. One of the most respected managers in world football, and his team turn in a performance like that. I'm not going to go on about the way the team lined up, or the players that were selected, that's been done to death everywhere on this thread, but I'm sure Carlo already knows he made "one or two mistakes" yesterday, and will rectify it this coming weekend.

It will need an astronomical turnover of playing personnel so that Ancelotti can bring his own players in, but this could take years, and this is something no premier league club gives their manager, TIME!! I hope to God that Ancelotti is not here for his one final big payday, and his heart will truly be in the club. Given time, I do believe he can turn things around. This, without doubt, is probably his biggest challenge ever. Everywhere he's gone, he's gone in with an established team already there.

Right now, I could probably understand people who say "I've had enough, I'm not going ever again" As much as the frustration, anger, and whatever other adjective you can think of, it will never get the better of me. I will still be there on Saturday, and at West Ham the following week.

EVERTON FOOTBALL CLUB IS "IN MY HEART AND IN MY SOUL" and will be until my time on this planet is up.

Michael Lynch
183 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:14:18
In the cold light of day, it is of course all about fine margins. If we'd taken the lead in the first half with just one of our clear chances, I'm not sure we'd be having the same conversation today. We tore the Shite apart in the first 45 minutes - they may have a brilliant footballing culture throughout the club but their defence was woeful until we gave up at half time. WIth their wonder-goal and second half transformation, the story ends up all about their wonderful youngsters and our mis-firing misfits, but it's actually only half the story.

Mind you, none of that absolves our players for failing to turn up in the second half. And it doesn't detract from the fact that it was one of my lowest moments as an Evertonian.

Christy Ring
184 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:15:52
Jim@96 You said that Siggy should be playing further up the pitch, I agree, the fucking stand. Looking at our non existent midfield yesterday, a total shambles, can someone tell me the great transfer business Brands done, by bringing in Delph, who made little difference, when he came on yesterday, for £8m, plus bigger wages, and selling McCarthy for £3m, who is playing regularly for Palace, injury free, unlike Delph, and certainly would have fired up our midfield yesterday.
Dave Abrahams
185 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:17:34
I doubt if Saturday is the time to bring any of the young players in to the squad, they need guidance when coming into the first eleven, from the senior players, unfortunately these seniors need guidance themselves, I hope Ancelotti can provide it, and loads of it.
Andrew Ellams
186 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:19:18
If Ancelotti isn't given the financial clout to fix this then I fully expect him to be gone by the end of next season. Why would hang around with a dead end club going nowhere.
Tony Everan
187 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:27:28
If yesterday's atrocious performance for the last 60 mins doesn't precipitate wholesale changes at the club then nothing will.

That last hour it was all laid out to see. We have a non-team, full of strangers who are forced to play together. Less fight, Less desire, Less teamwork, Less understanding, Less camaraderie and no-one to take responsibility.

Carlo's only been here 2 seconds, but he will have to do more than tweak this squad,it's mentality and our training techniques.

He needs to drive a water canon into Finch Farm, turn the squirter on to max. and hose the whole rancid setup into the nearest sewer.

It's time for a clean slate and new beginning.

John Raftery
188 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:40:20
Rob (182) I will be there as well mate!
Clive Rogers
189 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:41:56
Tony, the club will never be any good while we have a part time chairman who regards EFC as his toy and has filled the club with his yes men who have all survived the change of owner. Such is his influence.
John Raftery
190 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:43:18
I think this match finally killed off the notion, clung to by many, that we have a talented, skilful squad which was being mismanaged. We have a very limited squad with too many one paced, very slow, elderly players more suited to walking football.

Quite why Ancelotti has seen fit to bring back short goal kicks puzzles me. Duncan had dispensed with those in the knowledge that the players were incapable of making it work. Yesterday it played to our weaknesses and the opposition’s strengths. Why do that?

If any good is to come of yesterday’s result, the club must start planning a revolution in terms of style, personnel and performance levels. That will not happen overnight. The immediate priority must be to secure the five wins required to guarantee safety.

The sooner he can do that the sooner Ancelotti can start testing what he has available in the under 23s and under 18s. Along with that must come a radical change in playing style which can only be brought about by bringing in younger players with the energy, sprinting speed, stamina and team ethos which we saw in abundance from the opposition yesterday.


Brian Harrison
191 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:45:36
Well I have been going to the game for over 65 years, and have been lucky enough to see us win leagues and Cups. But for the past 30 years we have become an embarrassment to our brilliant fans, who are the only good thing about this club at present. We have suffered some real embarrassing times over the decades but the 2nd half performance yesterday took embarrassment to a whole new level. The players and management have changed over the last 30 years but the complete incompetence has been the only constant during this time. As I said earlier I am one of the lucky ones to have seen this club reach the heights, but I feel so sorry for our younger supporters who have had to endure such dross over such a long time.

I hear about how wonderful the supporters are of a lot of clubs via the media, well let me tell them that none can compare with our young supporters. They turn up in their droves at home and away games and get behind whichever team is put on the park, yet they are constantly let down. But unlike the players they don't throw their hand in, and are there week in week out despite knowing the chances of winning anything is slim.

I am still in shock over what happened yesterday, but like many of us I will be there on Saturday, because good or bad Everton is our club. As I say to my friends who support the other lot, its very easy to support a club that has won as much as they have, but it takes a really special fan to support their team who constantly under perform, which are fans do . So this morning might be as low as we have felt maybe ever, remember we might have had awful players and have had awful managers, but we have the most loyal bunch of supporters anywhere in the world.

I am mightily proud of everyone of them, I wish I could promise them things will get better, but what I do know is that they will always be there in their thousands whatever a shambles of a football team we have to support.

Mike Price
192 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:48:25
The worry Is, is that everything about that performance felt like an ‘end of the road’ moment. Selection, tactics, lack of effort and application, and mercenaries throughout the club.
Trouble is the manager has only been here a few weeks.
Some think that’s his excuse, I’m more worried that he’s the biggest mistake of all.
James Lauwervine
193 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:48:32
That second-half was the worst performance I can remember, and there have been a lot of contenders this season already. I can't figure out what has happened to be honest. A few weeks ago we were full of passion and fight under DF, yesterday we were a total embarrassment, a football laughing stock.
Apart from high-quality attire and an interesting eyebrow, I don't see what Ancellotti has brought so far - two lucky wins against shit teams and two absolutely pathetic performances to follow.
Yet another crap and depressing season with the added insult this time of watching the RS stroll the league title.
I'm just glad I wasn't there yesterday and relieved I don't live in Liverpool anymore - it must be fucking horrendous for blues.
Derek Knox
194 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:51:10
Christopher @ 179, why leave Allardyce out? Okay he was only here a short time but he managed to waste nearly £50M on bringing in Theo Walcott and Cenk Tosun.

Both I may add on inflated fees for what they were actually worth, and both subsequently, apart from the odd goal, or half a decent performance, failed to repeat it since.

Okay, not either player's fault, but Lardiola is not off the hook in any way shape or form for his part, in the financial miasma that has pervaded our Club.

Plus he managed to walk away with yet another Lottery win in Compensation- Unbelievable Geoff!

Not to mention the dire Football under his tutelage, but even his style was possibly surpassed yesterday, and I don't wholly blame Ancelotti, although his hands were tied to a degree with availability, I do think Tom Davies over Schneiderlin would have been a slightly better option.

Maybe that was part of Carlo's plan, let's expose these under-achievers so Moshiri and Brands can see how poor they are, and a decent foray into the Market is a MUST, regardless of FFP if survival is to be guaranteed!

Peter Gorman
195 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:52:58
I thought buying Sidibe for 13 million at the end of the season was a no-brainer, but after seeing him get constantly turned inside and out by a 16 year old, he can also fuck right off to be frank. Another loser in his heart like the rest of them.
Rob Young
196 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:59:01
If you can't pass to a teammate you can fuck right off
Anybody left?
Tony Everan
197 Posted 06/01/2020 at 11:59:47
On a slightly different point.

Why can we not get a full 90 min performance from any of our players? They all seem to drift in and drift out of games. Never focused [or fit enough?] to have a full on performance for the full 95 mins.

It's like we have a subservient mindset and rather than turn the screw and take the game to the opposition we have players who sit back and react to the opposition, rather than take control and fight for that control. This trait has been going on for years.

Rob Halligan
198 Posted 06/01/2020 at 12:03:15
John, # 182. That was never in doubt. See you there, along with the other 3000 diehards.
Ken Kneale
199 Posted 06/01/2020 at 12:03:29
Michael 183 - were you watch the same game as I was? Even in the first half, the RS dominated with the ball and what chances they allowed us we fluffed. That in itself was enough for alarm bells and should have led to a disciplined and galvanized second half performance - what was going through our players minds at half time having seen themselves dominated by a bunch of youngsters to come back out and offer such inept resistance beggars belief and shows the paucity of character or characters within the dressing room. We do not as some keep suggesting have a talented but erratic squad - we have a talent-less pool of charlatans all drinking at the well of plenty in terms of money, cheating fans week in and week out.
Alan McGuffog
200 Posted 06/01/2020 at 12:08:08
A couple of posters have mentioned the "if" word.
If Labone hadn't gone off injured in 1971.
If Clive Thomas hadn't been inept in 1977
If Neville hadn't bust his ankle on the cow field in Dublin
If Heysel hadn't happened.
If Hutchisons "goal" had stood.
Sorry but if equates with luck and, if I am quoting correctly, it was Arnold Palmer who said that the harder he worked the luckier he got.
Clive Rogers
201 Posted 06/01/2020 at 12:12:09
If Kenwright had an ounce of honour he would stand down after this.
Tom Bowers
202 Posted 06/01/2020 at 12:13:15
Everyone is gutted and we have had many bad match days in the past but this one was an absolute nightmare.
What the hell happened cannot be described and the reactions speak for themselves.

Everton in truth are a bunch of slowpokes who were outran by a team of youngsters determined to show Klopp that they too deserve to be wearing a first team shirt.

Even when the most experienced player was off due to injury Klopp didn't hesitate to bring in a youngster.

One could understand the grin on Klopp's face when being interviewed. He had engineered the most famous of Anfield derby victories with basically a team of schoolboys.

We know what needs to be done and it needs to be done fast because this debacle won't be forgotten soon.

Derek Knox
203 Posted 06/01/2020 at 12:16:27
Alan @ 200, the one IF, I personally have never asked myself "If I had supported Liverpool instead" No way Jose.

Like someone mentioned earlier on in this thread, we have the best set of fans anywhere in the World. I think it's about time our loyalty was repaid with some joined up and entertaining Football. Oh and results too!

Rob Halligan
204 Posted 06/01/2020 at 12:23:16
In reply to John # 190. I too don't understand why Ancelotti has felt the need to have these short goalkicks, which sometimes don't even leave the six yard box? This new ruling on goal kicks was only introduced for this season, so having never seen Napoli play this season, I don't know if it's something Ancelotti approves of, though I guess the answer must be yes.

Straight away the defence is put under immense pressure, and yesterday we gave the ball away a couple of times as a result. My philosophy is "if the ball is seventy or eighty yards away from your goal then the opposition can't score". Defenders are there to defend, not fanny around in your own penalty box. Let your midfielders and forwards try all the fancy stuff, but FFS do away with these short goal kicks.

Raymond Fox
205 Posted 06/01/2020 at 12:33:57
I swiched the match off in the first half, I could see then we were second best. I've better things to do than bore the pants off me for another 60 minutes.
We are short of top players, its always been the problem for the last twenty years.
What are we going to do sack Ancelotti when he fails, because he will if Moshiri/ club don't buy him better players.
Mick Conalty
206 Posted 06/01/2020 at 12:38:12
The bad news EFC are not fit for purpose. The good news is we the Everton players will be going on a sunshine holiday next round of the cup.
Peter Dodds
207 Posted 06/01/2020 at 12:43:43
Ancelotti and all the players giving their weekly salary to charity would be a clear statement that they realize this performance was completely unacceptable.
Iain Latchford
208 Posted 06/01/2020 at 12:51:56
The only players I would keep from that are DCL and Richarlison. The rest should be sold to highest bidders.

We have been conditioned to accept mediocrity, and have lost sight of a what good player actually looks like. We think because someone has the odd good game they're great. They're not. Coleman is at the end of his career so I can forgive him. Holgate and Digne are crap. Accept it and replace them. Obviously our midfield "SAS" should never play again, and neither should Walcott. Overpaid and completely past it. Delph looks an awful signing too.

There are Championship players that can perform better than these clowns. It's the most gutless bunch of players I've ever witnessed at Everton. They are a disgrace.

Adrian Evans
209 Posted 06/01/2020 at 13:02:15
As fans we have witnessed one of the most horrendous, wreckless waste of millions of pounds of an investors money in football history.
We prayed for a saviour,got one in Moshiri and four years later of hell where are we.
Moshiri must take a huge amount of respondibility.
But hes done something about it.
Four managers, £50 million in compensation and salaries.
Thank God for Duncan Fergerson to show the lot what having a passion for a club is all about.
Sidiebi might didnt have game time,new to the league but my god he puts a shift in,quality at times to.I ll live with the mistakes for now.

Two weeks Carletti has been in.Hes made his mind up.
Tosun, out,Gylfy out,a few more not in his plans.
He knows what he wants.

Never in his career has he commented on his players after the game.
He did last night,so a good few are done at Everton.

They played how he told them for 45 mins and should have bern up 3-1, 3-0 halftime.
They had a style,a plan.
Came out second half,decided to play the way they wanted.
Thats the sack if you play for Carlo Ancelotti.
As a pro, your paid to play a certain way as a player,do ya bit in a system.
If you cant do that first,ya gone.

But he needs 6 wins or 18 points, first and foremost.
Home wins,pick up some points away.
Clear the whole squad out,Pickford included maybe if he can get £70million for him.
I think we have to leave it to him.

He will want to challenge for evetything next season so watch this space.
Anything is possible.

Moise Keane???Its down to Carlo, if he can get him performing,same with Richarlison.Consistant shifts or sell.

Just have to leave it to Carlo now.Its his job to do it,hell be sacked,or get a statue.

Paul A Smith
210 Posted 06/01/2020 at 13:02:37
Ian 208 that doesn't include everyone. I knew the players were terrible. A few other Toffeewebbers did but not many and certainly not enough.

Loads were smitten over Brands before he done or won anything here. Now they feel daft. I didn't even see one person mention whether or not its harder to buy players for the here than in Holland.

Not even that little hint of concern, just pure trust by an already failed regime.

I was the mad one for asking them questions.

Its mad how we have to get beat by the Red shite before everyone notices our players are shite.

Siggurdson has apologised in The Mirror today. Sound mate all is forgiven you useless water carrying wimp excuse for a footballer.

Steavey Buckley
211 Posted 06/01/2020 at 13:05:45
There is something wrong at Everton when the successful under 23s who won the PL2 are not given an opportunity to play for the 1st team. Any up and coming young players from other clubs should think twice about signing for the under 23s because they are not going to be given any 1st team opportunities. Yet, managers at Everton are happy to give the dross as many opportunities they want.
Craig Walker
212 Posted 06/01/2020 at 13:11:33
For those who say "if one of those chances had gone in..." highlights the crux of the problem. We can bemoan our luck but the top teams have finishers who would have taken those three chances. Our players are content to make a good connection and hope the keeper dives out the way. Mane, Salah, Aguero, Kane etc. would finish those opportunities. We haven't had a top-class finisher at Everton since Lineker left. The '87 team compensated for this by spreading the goals around the team. We've had decent strikers since e.g. Lukaku and Yakubu but not the top-notch predator strikers who'll get 25 goals every season and score in the big games. When you add to our woes a lack of pace, bite and creativity in midfield and a porous defence then you can see the task ahead of Ancelotti.

The profligacy in the transfer market doesn't bear thinking about. We've spent comparable amounts on Davy Klaasen and Michael Keane than the RS spent on Salah and Mane. We were better when we had no money.

Is there a club where the mood swings as much though as Everton? After the 5-2 thrashing we were all down and out. Big Dunc got us believing again and gave us some pride back. The planning permission for BMD got submitted, we got Ancelotti and were being linked with the likes of Ibrahimovic. Then we hear that Usmanov is interested in investing further. All looks rosy. Then we put in the most abject performance against them that I can remember and there have been many to choose from. Bloody Everton!

David Connor
213 Posted 06/01/2020 at 13:19:48
Hundreds of millions of pounds wasted on talentless spineless garbage over the last 3 seasons. We have to start from scratch and put every one of our team up for sale to the highest bidder. We would not miss one of them.

Reported recently: £80 million for Richarlison and £50 million for Pickford. Get rid of both and offset the losses we would make on the rest. Not one of that team deserves to wear the Everton shirt again.

We obviously know that they will. But I hope to god not many of the shite we have at our club today will be there by the end of the 2020 summer transfer window. That's got to be the most expensive, talentless and spineless squad the Premier League has ever seen... They are that bad.

Kevin Molloy
214 Posted 06/01/2020 at 13:24:37
now that I've calmed down, I think I can see the wood from the trees a bit. This performance, I think has to be laid at our newly arrived manager's door (and because he has only just arrived, not much blame can be attached).
the key point for me about yesterday was the performance of Sigurdsson. Ask yourself this question, 'would you put Gylfi in a two man midfield in a derby?'
no way, it's not his game, not even close to his game. He is a Bilyaletdinov, a fragile skillful player who given the right circumstances, can make killer passes. He absolutely is not a combative assertive midfielder (and maybe Carlo just didn't realise the very particular sort of player he was). and because of this, his technique of playing out from the back was doomed, cos Gylfi didn't feel confident enough to come and demand the ball from his defence. Also, Morgan for most of the game yesterday probably felt he did what he was asked to do, which is to mop up, and close down attacks. We weren't put under the cosh much in our final third, cos most of the game was played in the centre, and we just couldn't get the ball, cos we just didn't have the personnel.
So, it's on Carlo, but hells bells he's only just got here. Let's stuff the shit out of Brighton, get a couple in, and give them a game in a couple of months when the gobshites come back.
Bill Watson
215 Posted 06/01/2020 at 13:32:35
What I don't want to see, or hear, is the usual culprits trotting out the "We owe our fans so we'll really be up for it v Brighton". Sorry, but I've heard that too many times before.

I'm still in shock at the abysmal second half and Ancelotti's failure to change things when we were being overrun.

I've seen every Derby since they were promoted, and many drubbings, but yesterday was a new low. No radio or TV on in our house; my only communication with the outside world is on here with fellow Blues and the occasional glance at the Everton FC website just in case we sign someone!

I really feel for those having to go into work and cope with gloating armchair RS; yesterday's journey home on the bus and train was bad enough. I was so embarrassed I just kept my mouth shut.

Like many others I've thought long and hard about why I bother, after so many kicks in the teeth, but players and managers come and go but once a Blue always a Blue. (I'm not religious but I'm starting to think I must have done something really dreadful in a previous life!)

Ancelotti has a clear week to try to instill some organisation into this rabble. Like others I'll be there on Saturday and at West Ham the following week.

Next week's AGM should be interesting!

Paul A Smith
216 Posted 06/01/2020 at 13:34:06
Sigurdsson Telegraphs everything he does like Butterbean. Richarlison is not far behind, hes about Frank Bruno level.

You know when you were stood with one of the lads who had a ball at their feet and said to you, watch this, because hes about to aim for a certain place with the ball. Thats Sigurdsson.

Unless Richarlison has no time on the ball hes near the same. A 12 year old Centre Half could read their aim.

Eddie Dunn
217 Posted 06/01/2020 at 13:36:38
Heard Talksport today and on the Jim White show, Danny Murphy was talking about our midfield and midfield in beneral and he concluded that we had good players but they are simply too slow for the demands of that job in the current PL.
It is clear in every game that you need physicality like Sissoko or industry and speed like Winks. Erikson is similar to Sigurdsson but younger and with more pace.
Delph is not as quick as he was and like Drinkwater(who couldn't get in the team at Burnley) these guys are past it.
We need quick althletic types who can go box to box.
Davies, Delph, Schnides,and Siggy are all too slow.
The midfield is where we lost that game.
Franny Porter
218 Posted 06/01/2020 at 13:54:18
Team for Brighton:

Pickford (best of a bad bunch)
Sidibe (best of a bad bunch)
Baines (Digne should read dire)
Mina
Holgate
Bernard (left)
Richarlison (right)
Davies (for the sheer fact I never want to see MS or GS again)
Delph (if he hasn't farted and ruptured his rectum or something)
Gordon (off the striker, somethign needs to change)
DCL (best of a bad bunch)

4411

In an ideal world, I wouldn't have around six of that team starting, I particularly don't rate Delph.

Sad thing is look at the other possible candidates, Steklenburg, Keane, Niasse, Schneiderlein to name a few.

The squad reeks.

Steve Ferns
219 Posted 06/01/2020 at 13:56:17
The article is spot on. Don't have time to read all 215 comments, but I assume they are all negative.

I believe the side is hampered by it's midfield. This is the key part of any side and our central midfield are expensive Steve Walsh / Ronald Koeman mistakes. There was only 4 Brands players in the starting lineup and it seems to me to be a recurring theme that when we rely on the team Brands inherited we seem to struggle. Not that Digne, Sidibe, Richarlison or Mina were standout performers in a poor display.

We need to sign Rabiot or someone like him. Doucouré would help as well. Delph (brands signing) came on the pitch and looked out of place, casually playing side-ways Man City style passes when the clock was ticking to the game's conclusion and more urgency was needed.

We should have thumped that Liverpool side, we went out and played the shirt, not the players. And that was disgraceful. I'm still a fan of Silva, and I think this performance highlights that our problems were much more than of his making. However, if Silva was in charge, you could expect token signings in January, not much to change. Ancelotti is different. He looked livid on the sidelines, and I expect that he will have been straight on the phone to Moshiri and demanded major signings.

Barry Rathbone
220 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:00:21
Fans are as much to blame as anyone far too many "celebrated" the 11 years of surrender under Moyes and Kenwright and staggeringly some still see the time as some sort of success

Warnings about the possibility of terminal decline abounded but lunatics had taken over the asylum as the grotesque indignity of an Everton manager dictating terms for his exit rather than having his locker cleared played out.

When Goodison applauded the shenanigans I realised the club I had supported since the early 60s had gone.

Steavey Buckley
221 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:02:12
Everton lost the game in the first half when DCL, Richarlison and Holgate did not realise they can direct their efforts at other parts of the goal not just straight at the goal-keeper.
Kieran Kinsella
222 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:03:11
Eddie

The midfield is terrible. The problem is they’re all midway through massive contracts with no sell on value.

Andy Walker
223 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:07:24
I’ll say something which in over 50 years I’ve never said about our players before. Most of them are cowards, not up for a fight, not up for a challenge. When it gets tough in a match they hide.

They chose to let a bunch of young inexperienced lads embarrass them in front of thousands of their own fans and live on national TV. Those players wearing blue were a disgrace yesterday, a total disgrace.

They should sacrifice a months wages and apologise for their attitude, lack of effort and ineptitude. They won’t, because they don’t care and their attitudes stink.

We have a bungling owner who knows sod all about football who has appointed Brands to Board level and asks Brands what’s the problem, have we got decent players or is it down to our coach? The guy in charge of player recruitment blames the coach. Surprise surprise.

Our club is sick from top to bottom. Vested self interest of Brands, players and agents taking advantage of Moshiri’s football incompetence.

Ancelotti must be wondering what on earth has he walked into. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if he left on his own accord, no compo but reputation still intact so he can work at a proper club.

Derek Knox
224 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:08:05
Steve @ 219, I wondered where you'd gone to, I have asked this question several times but no-one has ever provided an answer. It regards the Goalkeeping situation.

As I understood things Stekelenburg was due to move out somewhere as a GK Coach. We then got Jonas Lossl from Huddersfield on a free but, he was remunerated handsomely with a wage increase.

Since then, I have rarely seen Lossl on the bench even, Stek being preferred as back up on the bench. Is Lossl injured? Or what?

They have announced record losses recently, no wonder, when they are blowing money right left and centre!

Stan Schofield
225 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:13:32
The squad may not be good enough to compete with the best, but they are good enough to do much better than they did yesterday. There can be no excuses or mitigating circumstances for losing to the likes of Liverpool reserves. Even Villa could hammer them 5-0, whereas we seem incapable of hammering anybody.
Paul Tran
226 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:15:17
Steve #219, as I mentioned elsewhere, our team is never a unit. It's always the 3/4/5 players who are the least unfit/least out of form. No leader, no drive, no physical strength, no cohesion.
George Cumiskey
227 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:18:18
I'll have to disagree with a lot ToffeeWebers and say I'd get rid of DCL as well, as I don't think he'll ever be a first class striker. Imho.
Phillip Warrington
228 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:19:34
The difference: After reading Jurgen klopp's match reaction after destroying Everton again, it makes so much sense why they are so successful and we are not and here is why:

"If you want to be a Liverpool player, you have to respect the principles of this club. We cannot always play the best football in the world but we can fight like nobody else. And as long as we use our principles, we will be a difficult opponent to play against."

Steve Ferns
229 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:20:35
Derek, I was too angry to want to devote any time to that pathetic team.

Stekelenburg is out of contract in the summer, Derek. There was rumours he would be sold so he could take up a player coach role. It would not surprise me that he is to become a goalkeeper coach at Everton. The guy has seen it all and done it all, not least he played in the World Cup final in 2010. We've retained Alan Kelly for now.

Remember, Alan Kelly was brought in to be Everton's temporary coach when Unsworth had a run at the first team. Unsworth then took him into the u23 setup when he lost the job to Allardyce who immediately brought his own guy in. Ferguson then took him on after Hugo Oliveira was booted out with Silva. Hugo being a highly rated keeper coach who worked with Ederson (of Man City) at Benfica and was instrumental in persuading Portgual's u18 European cup winning goalkeeper (Joao Virginia) to move here from Arsenal.

I've no idea how good Kelly is, but the fact that Unsworth took him on as he was out of work and could come in at short notice, hardly fills you with confidence. If he's not up to it, maybe Stek is in line for a coaching role here?

As for Lossl, he's fallen out of favour with Silva's departure. He's not injured. Stek is clearly fancied by Ferguson and maybe he's persuaded Ancelotti that he is better than Lossl? Don't forget that whilst we might think of Stekelenburg as being about 45, he is only 37, so not too old for a keeper. Southall, Martyn and Howard were all in goal for us at the same age.

Mark Quinn
230 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:21:14
Thank you Lyndon, for succinctly putting in to words what I have felt since that horrible experience. What made me realise that we have now reached a new low point is that instead of the usual anger, pain, heartbreak and frustration I normally feel after the final whistle, all I felt was a dull numbness. I realised that I wasn't actually shocked or surprised, but deep down expected it. Everything the other lot are we're not - passionate, caring, proud, diligent, driven, hungry and confident. I watched my first Everton match in 1968 and have seen countless capitulations since. I remember watching some very average players, with no-where near the ability of the current squad, but never ever remember them giving the equivalent of two fingers to the wonderful fans who they no longer deserve support from. Ancelotti arrived with a pretty good reputation - let's see him prove his worth and earn his high salary. If I see close to or the same line up for the next game I will then seriously question his qualifications.
Lenny Kingman
231 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:23:13
Alan#200

Right sport on the quote. But it was Gary Player.

Now he was a competitor. Wonder if he's busy between now and May. I know he's in his eighties now but some of that shower yesterday played as if they were too.

Rick Tarleton
232 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:26:35
Ancelotti has his work cut out. He's, like Koeman before him taken the thirty pieces of silver, but is he the man for this kind of bottom half of the table mediocrity?
When Klopp first came to Anfield, he got rid of Sturridge. One of the three SSS strikers who almost won Liverpool the league. He saw that Sturridge was not suited to the pressing game he needed to play. Similarly Guardiola got rid of England's keeper, Joe Hart, because he could not play as keeper/sweeper and brought in his man. He threatened the best striker in the Premier League with being dropped if he didn't buy into his pressing style. Such managers and Ancelotti is one of them know exactly what they want to do. Klopp and Guardiola had to make two or three adjustments to their squad to get what they needed. Ancelotti needs a minimum of eleven changes. I'm not sure these managers are ideal for poorer teams with very finite resources.
Silva and Martinez both had an ideal, they hadn't the players for their style and were clueless what to do then.
There are also that breed of British managers (Moyes, Allardyce, Pulis, Dyche, Warnock etc.) who are pragmatic utilitarians and start each game with one point and hope to keep that point and possibly sneak a goal to get three points.
I'm with Tony Marsh, I'd have kept Ferguson till the end of the season. I think Ancelotti faces the biggest challenge of his career if he is to turn Everton into a top six team during his period of contract. I'm not sure he can do it, I don't think Guadiola or Klopp could do it either.
We could be building a 50,000 plus stadium for a team that will never fill it. This is the worst I've felt about Everton since I started supporting them 66 years ago.
Paul Cherrington
233 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:26:57
I don't think you can say Ancelotti should escape criticism as he has only been here a few weeks. Big Dunc got them playing with more passion, desire and urgency from his very first game so it can be done.

We need to ditch this playing out from the back with one striker up front rubbish which all foreign managers seem obsessed with. We should be playing around the opposition's box, not our own, and getting the ball in quickly for two strikers to contest. Back to basics, as Duncan did, is all that will work with this squad.

Geoff Williams
234 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:29:06
Midfield is the key to success. If the manager wants to play the ball out from the back then he needs players in midfield capable of receiving the ball and taking it forward. Everton play the ball to one of the centre backs who then passes it the other who in turn plays it to a midfielder who instantly plays it straight back. All the time this is going on the opposition pushes further forward pressuring the centre backs to pass the ball back to the goalie who simply wellies it up the field. Why don't we score goals because the midfield players are not comfortable on the ball and are always looking for the quick easy pass which is usually sideways or backwards. Tom Davies, who is constantly slated on this site, is the only player who drives forward committing the opposition. Up front Richarlison should not be played on the wing, I've yet to see him dribble past anyone. He should be alongside DCL picking up his flicks. As for Walcott he simply should be paid off and sent away.
Michael Lynch
235 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:30:12
I wonder why Ancelotti instructed the defence to play out from the back? It was embarrassing, if not humiliating, at times. Also, Ancelotti said after the game that he was going to speak to the players, and that he never speaks to the players after the game. Is that usual? He doesn't speak to the players after the game, and it looks like he has no understanding of their (lack of) ability to play out from the back. He sounds pretty "hands-off" as a manager.

Hopefully Don Carlo will be a great manager for us. I just wish we could have kept him on ice til the summer and continued with Don Duncan in the interim. I think the big fella would have had a few choice words to say after the game. Theo Walcott for one would have gone home with a dead pigeon up his arse.

Kieran Kinsella
236 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:38:51
Michael Lynch 235,

Carlo said he's basically had no time training due to the quick turnaround in games. I doubt he's watched tonnes of our games the last few years. So he probably (wrongly) assumed with England's number 1, two French internationals, a star CB from the world cup and the Irish captain that it would be safe to assume they had the requisite skills to play out from the back. Now he knows.

Kieran Kinsella
237 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:45:00
Like Tony Marsh I'd have kept Dunc until the end of the season. Not saying anything against Carlo but just being pragmatic. At this point we have about a 5% chance of top 7 and even that may not get us into Europe. No chance of silverware. Under Dunc we showed enough spirit to avoid relegation. So why bring in Carlo right now? I doubt we'll spend a lot of money in January. It doesn't make sense to spend 30 or 40 million for the benefit of earning 3 or 4 million by finishing 9th instead of 12th. So he's pretty much got to manage with these jokers. Fergie could've done the same in a lesser wage. The other potential upside would be that IF Fergie ended up doing better than expected we could have just kept him long term.

Now that Carlo is here, I am behind him. I do think it's good to have his experience and tough skin. I imagine it will be an exasperating six months for him though until maybe we have more cash to spare next summer.

Derek Knox
238 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:45:47
Steve @ 229, thanks for that, I couldn't figure what was going on to be honest, but that explains a lot.
Tony Marsh
239 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:46:16
After a night of reflection and time to cool down, it is still quite apparent Carlo Ancelotti shit himself leading into the game on Sunday and reverted to Everton manager default mode. Virtually every Everton supporter I have spoken to since yesterday's debacle agree that the staring 11 was a massive mistake – particularly the deadly duo in midfield. So how the fuck is Ancelotti supposed to be some sort of football genius??

This is the lowest point in the club's history in my lifetime. When Everton hit rock bottom, they pull out the sticks of dynamite and try to tunnel deeper. We didn't lose to Liverpool Reserves — it was the kids the 3rd string — and Ancelotti presided over it, Marco Silva fashion.

There are no positives for our fans any more. Each season deals another crushing blow more devastating than the previous crushing blow. I got slated on here 2 years ago for stating Pickford was useless and he is useless. The rest of them even worse. I can already see the flaws in Ancelotti. I can see the gormless expression that Silva had when thinking "Why isn't the Gylfi and Morgan routine working?"

Ancelotti fucked up massively but we should never've appointed him. For me, Carlo is on the same route down as Mourinho. Once brilliant... but 10 years past their prime. More money wasted on a mercenary. What was wrong with Big Dunc, FFS??

Christy Ring
240 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:52:14
Steve @219 " When we rely on a team Brands inherited we seem to struggle ", unbelievable. Brands is every bit as bad, if not worse. The 4 players he bought, started, and Delph and Kean, his 5th and 6th signings came on, that's 60% of our outfield players, were equally as bad, and Iwobi is no better, so the majority of the team were Brands signings, think again of how good he is. I hope Ancelotti buys the players himself, Rabiot and Nzonzi, would totally transform our midfield.
Kim Vivian
241 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:55:05
I think Carlo's best move this morning would have been to put them in a room with Duncan, let them get both barrels from him and then pick up the baton himself. Let Duncan tell them they've let the club down, let the fans down, let the shirt and badge down, let Carlo himself down (and they should now be watching their backs) and let themselves down. Shameful to a man last night. Kicking apart - Pickford did not do much wrong. The goal was a worldy, reminiscent of Barnes' goal in the 4-4 draw - a one off for the lad (who wasn't even born when we last won there) and good luck to him.
Colin Hughes
242 Posted 06/01/2020 at 14:59:18
Let,s not forget that both Villa and Arsenal (youths) have both put 5 past Liverpool,s second string this season yet we couldn,t manage one goal. Hopefully that will put paid to any silly contract extensions to average championship quality players like Calvert Lewin,if he was anywhere near good enough he would have stood out against that opposition and made things happen,that is what quality players do.
I fear the job Ancelotti has on his hands is too big as I believe Everton are like Newcastle these days and are just too far gone to ever be a major player in this league again,christ,we have been to one cup final in 25 years,even Portsmouth have been to two this century.
John Keating
243 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:00:26
There are just no words
Peter Neilson
244 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:02:43
Kieran I'm guessing it was just the availability of such a prestigious manager at that time. Maybe he didn't want take 5-6 months holiday and we didn't want to sign a contract and not have him working immediately.
Conor McCourt
245 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:06:25
Yes this was disgraceful...the young whipper snapper running rings around their opponent, filled with vision, dynamism, drive and ruthlessness despite being novice at the elite level while their slow, laboured, bamboozled, pedestrian overhyped opponent allowed it to unfold without a whimper.

But enough about the managers, Everton's players were also garbage.

Steve Ferns
246 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:11:44
Just because a player does something on the pitch does not mean his manager wanted him to do it. We've had assumptions galore that everything the players did for Silva was because he told them to. This was very wrong. They did not play his fast, high pressing, high intensity, heavy running game. Silva did not instruct them to fuck about with it at the back. It goes against his core philosophy of hitting teams quickly on the break whilst they are out of shape. Just like when you tackle an opponent and he takes time to stop, turn 180 degrees and recover position, so it goes for most of his teammates. If you piss about with it at the back you allow them to recover and get back in defensive formation, so no Silva did not instruct them to do it.

As for Ancelotti, no, he has not either. You only need to watch him on the sidelines going mad when we have the ball to see this. It's not FIFA on the playstation. He does not control the players. He may give them instructions, but they do what they want when they cross the white line.

The problem Silva faced is too many of them are untouchable. Namely Gylfi Sigurdsson. We cannot afford to put a player like him in our reserves and let him pick up around £130,000 per week without playing. He also needs to play to help us try to move him on. What made it worse last season is he had a habit of doing nothing for 80 minutes and doing enough in 10 minutes to make himself look great on Match of the Day. Often scoring crucial goals, and being joint top scorer with 14. This season the 10 minute flash has become a minute or so.

Ancelotti is a strong enough character that he won't take any shit. He can just put Sigurdsson in reserves and let him rot. Whereas Moshiri might have been on the phone to Silva and demanding he play or take better care of his £50m investment, it'll be the other way round with Ancelotti who should be demanding a better player for the money spent.

In summary, Carlo Ancelotti was not instructing them to play it out from the back. That's a hangover from Silva's tactics, but the constant fannying about going side to side is on the players and their lack of ideas, confidence and willingness to take responsibility.

Jamie Crowley
247 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:16:53
There's so many comments about the poor performance of the players, it's beyond belief.

Likewise, on a few other threads, I've seen a few comments along the lines of, when things are going good these players are great and have potential. Conversely, the argument goes, when things go bad the Negative Nancy's come out, and the players are all shite.

This got me thinking, who is actually good, and who is actually poor? Who should we discard and who, finances, age, and all of it being a factor, should we keep / who is "good"?

Pickford - Keep him. Great shot stopper. Nutter, but you can't have everything.

Coleman - Keep. Consumate veteran leadership.

Keane - keep if only to defend, discard if any future has us playing a high line, and we shouldn't be playing a high line, so offload.

Holgate. Keep.

Mina - Keep

Digne - Keep

Schneiderlin - Terrible offload ASAP

Delph - Too injury prone, offload

Davies - Keep

Sigurdsson - Past his prime, offload

Bernard - Keep

Iwobe - Keep

Richarlison - Keep. The one player with some real talent.

Walcott - Past his prime, offload

DCL - Keep

Kean - Keep

That's 16 players listed (did I miss anyone??). The rest are offload sans Gbamin and Gomes, they're Keep status.

Basically, for me, we are where we were, at the beginning of last summer's transfer window. We need to dump a lot of players out of Everton.

Once we do that, Carlo, through Marcel, can bring in 2-3 impact signings, and I think our fortunes will change.

CB, two central midfielders, and a striker. The rest will improve around quality, and under Carlo's watchful raised brow.

And this needs to be done quickly. We just splunked how many millions to sign Carlo? We need to bite the bullet and offload dead weight at a loss if need be. Schneids, Siggy, Sandro, Bolasie, Tosun, etc. They have to be cleared off the books. We need to cut the cord from the last 4 years for Carlo to move forward.

Gerard McKean
248 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:19:26
Thanks Lyndon for an excellent article full of painful home truths. I don’t know how you manage to write so eloquently in the immediate aftermath of probably the lowest point in the club’s history.

I spent a bit of time over New Year putting together a TW piece basically on my disappointment that Moshiri has allowed the organisational culture he inherited to continue. Knowing that this would elicit righteous indignation from the Terrys and those who brook no criticism of the way the club as a business operates, and also to avoid the usual charge that criticism only appears when we’re losing I decided to wait for a good win before submitting it.

When I realised a few days before that Klopp was going to field his B team I thought ok this is a good time, the morning after a derby win at the dark side. How wrong I was in that assumption! The article will have to wait for a while, methinks.

It does irritate me though that if someone like me could see what Klopp intended why did we need to select two right backs, for example? I know we have injuries but surely this was a time for a bolder, attacking team and set-up. I could highlight other poor selections but this one stood out for me, especially when, against a team of hungry, skilful young players, our best right back is playing in the Bundesliga.

Jerome Shields
249 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:20:00
The rumour is that Ancelotti wants Sigurdsson sold after that performance. He is keen to get James Rodriguez on loan.
Paul A Smith
250 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:26:13
Where did this Ancelotti Sigurdsson rumour come from? More useless nonsense.
If Ancelotti was that way inclined he would spew the whole team.


Sad thing about last night is none of the kids for Liverpool are making it in the premiership either.

Christy Ring
251 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:27:19
Steve you never answer my comment, 60% of the team who finished yesterday's shocking performance were Brands signings, you reckon none of it is his fault?
Liam Reilly
252 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:33:30
CA hasnt been with the players long enough but he made a critical error leaving the SAS on in the middle once LPL started to force a high pressing game.

The defenders continued to try to play from the back but the RS high press didn't allow that. Along with the SAS gping missing, they'd nowhere to go except long.

We needed to adapt and change to 442 immediately and aim the diagonal balls at DCL for knockdowns. That wouldve forced LPL back and put pressure on their young defender.

Football is a simple game, but we make it look so hard.

Steve Ferns
253 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:44:22
Christy, I think Brands signings by and large have been decent. If Brands had come in when Walsh did, I doubt we'd have signed the shite that Walsh signed and we would not be stuck clearing up the mess we are.

So much of the Brands era has been defined by the fact that he is clearing up Walsh's mess. We cannot offload Sigurdsson or Schneiderlin. No one will buy them and take on their immense wages. We're stuck with them. This has been the biggest problem of the Brands era. Being stuck with players they don't want, because of inflated wages, and being forced to balance the books.

Contrast that with the Walsh era and the spend, spend, spend approach. Want a number 10? let's buy 3 of them! Brands cannot be judged until he can get the handcuffs off that he has had placed on him by the financial restrictions caused by Walsh's recklessness.

Dunno, if I would have signed all the players that Brands signed, but most of them are good players, and most of them were for less than the amounts Walsh was pouring down the drain. Delph being the only one I thought was a poor signing.

Ultimately though, I still think Brands' inability to sign a Zouma replacement was a massive reason that Silva's Everton lost so many games. So, he is not above major criticism from me.

Andrew Ellams
254 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:44:38
Jerome, my question there would be where is he planning to play Rodrigues? Surely not as a direct swap for where he played Sigurdsson yesterday.
Tony Abrahams
255 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:46:41
That Elliot kid, is only 16 years of age and he gave a very good account of himself against Digne, Paul A. Little deft passes, with the inside and outside of his foot, and usually with the right weight on them, I think this lad has got the makings of a being a very good player.

I remember the Moyes team that came 4th getting carved open by a much better Arsenal team of kids, in a league cup-tie at Highbury, and although you could see that natural talent was ingrained in quite a few of them, maybe you are right about those Liverpool kids because history hasn’t been kind to those Arsenal youngsters who gave a much stronger Everton team, a massive football lesson that night.

I think the saddest thing about yesterday is that it will happen again, unless everything about our recruitment is restructured?

Paul Tran
256 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:55:26
Not just recruitment, Tony, it's the culture & mindset. It was abundantly clear that the young Lpool players were comfortable & confident at receiving, keeping and passing the ball. Their movement was far superior as well.

They should show a video of that game to all levels of our coaching staff. I certainly like to know what they do at Finch Farm.

Rennie Smith
257 Posted 06/01/2020 at 15:59:06
I agree Steve @253, the Brands signings have been better than the Walsh era, Klasson anyone? Remember 2 of our best midfielders were missing last night, Gana, who's replacement we haven't had a chance to assess and Gomes, who is the biggest loss.

And Tony @255, I was in Highbury that night, Tommy Grav scored. Where are any of that Arsenal team now? Probably playing on Hackney Marshes.

Craig Walker
258 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:01:12
I don't get the admiration for Brands. Iwobi looks woeful as does Delph. Yeri Mina is a liability. Digne was good last season but has been dreadful this season. We're all desperate to see Moise Kean do well but the signs aren't looking good. He's only 19 but we paid a lot of money for him.

That leaves Richarlison and Gomes as successful signings.

The jury's still out on Brands for me.

James Gardner
259 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:03:19
Sorry if this has already been mentioned...

The biggest problem with the players we have is their mentality. We have too many “confidence” players.

Almost the same team managed great results against big teams in the back half of last season when things were going well. I don’t doubt our players are all technically gifted professionals who can compete with the best on their day. I just see no fight or passion from these players and it’s so frustrating to watch!

For me the biggest failure in signing players has been the total disregard for the players character. For all of his flaws (and I believe there were many) Moyes signed players that would fight for our club, players who were proud to put the shirt on.

Going forward, we should be looking to sign players who want to grab the game by the scruff of the neck and influence it! We need players who play with passion and determination who hate losing. Most of the players didn’t even seem bothered when we lose.

Tony Abrahams
260 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:04:31
If we was to select two fullbacks Gerard, one of them had to be Leighton Baines, who has been totally dis-guarded since Digne came into out our club.

He was good against Leicester, but he’s never anything less than good with the ball at his feet, which is presumably why Ancelotti played Schniederlin over Davies, because he thinks Tom gives it away too much?

Our players are mentally week, our players who are used to playing one game a week, have now played 9 matches in 34 days without very little rotation, but this is not an excuse because I’m sure if that game had been at Goodison, Everton would have won quite easily, which shows me were we are lacking the most, and this won’t change until certain players are banished forever.

Jimmy Hogan
261 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:05:44
I want to talk about fear, because that's what I think we are suffering from. We are frightened that there is a curse on us that means we will never beat Liverpool. Fans, management and players alike. I think we have all bought into this "magical" bollocks and it is time that somebody gave us all a good kick up the arse. We had 8,000 fans there yesterday, You would never have known it, The Evertonians in the crowd were as quiet as mice, fearful because we all suspected the worst. They've got the hex on us, the bogeymen, not again, every fucking time. What I'm saying is we're all to blame. We've been giving off bad vibes as George might say. This must stop, NOW.
Brent Stephens
262 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:05:50
Jamie #247 "CB, two central midfielders, and a striker".

I'd agree and would also suggest a very decent replacement for Walcott's position. I'd suggest that a good, new striker needs good delivery from out wide as well as from midfield.

Just two or three (preferably four) really good signings could make a massive change to this team.

Brent Stephens
263 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:09:28
Steve #246 "We cannot afford to put a player like [Siggy] in our reserves and let him pick up around £130,000 per week without playing".

I'd say the £130k / week is a sunk cost. If there is somebody better to put in his place, then we should do it, for the better. Emphasis on IF!

Stephen Brown
264 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:11:44
All our comments about getting rid, selling and offloading are just pie in the sky! Nobody will buy these dreadful players!

We might literally have to pay someone to take them on?!

Sandro, Niasse, Martina wouldn’t get in a League 2 team but are in massive wages!

Siggy and Sneiderlinn are on 6 figures a week! They cost over £65m. They are both about 30! We couldn’t give them away!

Walcott has a name that might attract China or the US but would he go there ? £5m tops!!

Tosun might attract teams in Turkey but on his wages we’d have to pay him to go!

I’d send Sidebe back straight away and get JJK back in!

Personally I’d keep Digne, Richarlison, Gomes, Mina but they are the only ones who might get money for!

Kieran Kinsella
265 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:15:25
Jerome/Paul

I read the Sig sale rumor in a few tabloids. It makes sense that Carlo would want to sell him. However, who would buy him? 31 y/o on 100k plus a week, midway through a 5 year contract. So he's due another 12 million at least in wages from Everton. Presumably, Everton would want some kind of fee. Even if we sold him for 20 percent of what we paid, then a club is looking at 20 million plus just to cover wages we already would owe the guy and a "nominal" fee. Who could afford that who would actually want Sig? I am thinking he could do a job of sorts at say Rangers, an MLS team, maybe a weaker CL team. But none of them have that kind of dosh.

Andrew Ellams
266 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:20:17
We need a mobile CB, two central midfielders, two right wingers, one left winger and a striker as a minimum. Maybe a new left back if Baines doesn't sign a new contract.
Anthony Lamb
267 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:21:38
Having first watched the Blues as a 9 year old with my dad and brothers at Oldham when they clinched promotion with a 4-0 win in the 1950’s, it is difficult to comprehend what took place at Anfield, especially in the second half. The disintegration of the team in that period was utterly disgraceful, bereft of any spirit, cohesion, tactical or technical ability and certainly without any professional integrity whatsoever.
All credit to the young lads who represented Liverpool, with my added emphasis on “represented”. Those lads could have played very few competitive games together, if any at all as that eleven. They perhaps illustrated many features of what is sadly missing at EFC at present and for quite some time now.
First responsibility must surely rest on the shoulders of those responsible for the shambolic appointments of so many managers in recent years. Mr Klopp and his team have overseen a consistent, steady approach to team development over the past four years or so while at Everton there has been no consistent development whatsoever. One manager succeeding another, each buying players with short term objectives in mind ie keeping my job etc. Where on earth has been the due diligence to these appointments with the longer term strategy in mind?
Then the purchasing or development of players without such a longer vision in place, bought by the short term “objectives” of each successive manager means absolutely no progression whatsoever. Then to pay these players, the majority of whom are appallingly mediocre, the obscene salaries they seem to be on with no apparent targets that they are required to achieve means that they bask in their equally obscene soporific life styles.
I think it is the first time that I have no affinity with the team players who take to the pitch. I say that as one who gloried at the feet of Dave Hickson, Bobby Collins, Tommy Ring (however brief), Alex Parker, the 1963 team, the Temples Harvey Ball, Gabriel, the 70’s and 80’s teams etc. It is a new experience for this old guy to actually resent some of this current set whose names have been rightly identified through these pages.
In the light of that disgraceful performance if Ancelotti is serious about seeing out his contract and building something that is testimony to his managerial skills then he should insist on the paying off the rest of the contracts of some of these players as soon as possible. Is anybody seriously suggesting that there are no young lads capable of improving on what some of these charlatans have offered? They are responsible for halting the progress of lads such as Tom Davies as they have been no help to him as he learns his trade.
The club is in dire straits thrown into ever starker relief by the remarkable current success across the park and on this evidence likely to continue for some considerable time. It no longer hurts me as it once did during the Shankly, Paisley, Fagan eras etc so far away have we fallen. Throwing money at a problem is no answer if you do not know what the root cause of the problem is and the alarming thing is that the root cause of our problems may well lie in the very people who are tasked with solving it!
I can only apologise for going on a bit, but would like to end by apologising to all the younger fans who having been starved of watching a successful side with top players, playing for them with spirit, for this club has betrayed them.
Christy Ring
268 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:25:08
Steve, I agree with most of your comments, but I don't believe Walsh was completely to blame for signing 3 no.10's. Koeman had a lot to do with the Klaassen and Siggy signings, and I'd say we both agree, Kenwright was behind Rooney returning. Our biggest loss this season, is losing Gomes and Gbamin, as you say Delph was a very poor signing, considering Macca is playing regularly now for Palace, for £3m, injury free unlike Fabian.
Kevin Molloy
269 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:27:05
there are times when Anfield is indeed a fearsome place. but definitely not yesterday, nobody there really was arsed, they were stifling giggles in the last ten. It's not that they froxe, those players, it was that they aren't a team. They were 11 individuals with no personal stake in a particular team. We were starting to get that when Duncan promoted the kids and asked them to play in a particular way, but once the players feel that the system isn't working, they lose heart and fight. Normally you would expect a coach to embed a team spirit within a club in 2 or 3 years, we may have to give CArlo longer though as we have about nine mercenaries who are going to be extremely difficult to shift in the short term.
Raymond Fox
270 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:29:25
The players morphed back into their old ways pre Dunc.

They do not have the ability to pass out from the back when pressed, one excuse is I suppose is that Gomez and Gbamin are both out injured and it may be different with them in the team.
The simple truth is that most of our squad are not good enough to be top six players I don't care who our managers is.

Its grit your teeth till the end of the season and hope that we can sign 3 or 4 players of real quality in the summer.

Stephen Brown
271 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:36:30
It says it all that the transfer window is open and I’m praying for major sales rather than signings!
Andrew Ellams
272 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:38:26
Stephen, I doubt you'll get the signings without the sales.
Mike Doyle
273 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:39:10
Tony #260] I thought Digne - along with Gana - was our best player last season and a great piece of business. I do wonder if the downturn has anything to do with media suggestions that he is (or was) a target for "bigger clubs"?
Rob Halligan
274 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:45:29
Kevin, it's not a question of "we may have to give Carlo longer to embed a team spirit", we HAVE to give him longer. Unless he decides he's had enough and resigns (don't think he'll do that) we can't afford to sack him, and I don't mean in a financial way. I'm getting well pissed off now of sacking managers and all their backroom staff, every 18 months - 2 years, and bringing in a new manager and a whole new backroom team. This is not helping us to get stability back, and to get stability back will take longer than two years, because I think Carlo will need at least five transfer window to shift out players he doesn't want and bring in the players he needs.

I did say we couldn't afford to sack him and I don't mean in a financial way. Of course, that's not really correct, because I don't think we could afford any compensation package for Carlo and his backroom team if we are led to believe his salary of £11M is true.

Michael Barrett
275 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:45:39
I wonder how many more defeats like that before we want the latest manager out the door...if only we could sack the players
Ray Roche
276 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:47:59
Steve@246
I don’t agree that the players were playing out from the back due to a throwback to Silvas reign. Under Ferguson we played the long game to good effect, I believe that it was Ancellotti who gave the instructions to play out that way. The players carried out Duncan’s plan to a tee, why would they revert to Silvas plan if they weren’t told to.
John Boon
277 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:48:01
Lyndon, as depresing as your report might be to read it is also completely accurate.It is so tough to remain loyal after such a display. However I am also of the Rob Halligan (182) mould "EVERTONIAN FOR LIFE".
At such times it is so difficult to remain a staunch Blue. I have two sons and a son in law who also are experiencing the stress of being an Evertonian. They are all adults but my eldest son wondered if he could sue me for "Child Abuse " for making them Blues so many years ago, My non football wife complained by saying that I have made my sons, "As daft as you are".

To me Evertonians are probably the most loyal supporters in the world. However there are other fans of teams who remain dyed in the wool supporters in the most difficult of times. Last Saturday Sunderland were playing Lincoln City in a League 1 game. Despite the fact that they are having a lousy season they had over 31,000 at their ground.True fans can NEVER be fickle nor can they change teams or stop watching their teams even after a truly dreadful performance which we experienced on Sunday.

I hate what has happened over the last number of years but I don't have any other option than to remain a Blue. I could take up fishing. Nah. I hate fish

Jim Bennings
278 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:49:12
Mike

Digne certainly doesn’t look happy this season, I spotted early on in the season at home to Wolves when Traore kept on toasting him that it rammed home my belief from last season that he’s quite a mediocre defender but had (last year a good left peg).

This season he’s been woeful and I don’t like the attitude of him constantly throwing his arms up in the air, but my biggest annoyance is the stupid free kicks he’s continuously gives away, reminds me last season at Millwall.

Baines for me is still even now a better footballer as we witnessed at Newcastle and the Leicester game too.

Leighton would have been the man for me yesterday.

I won’t blame Ancelotti but he does need to accept some responsibility for yesterday’s performance as he picked players that we have known for a long time to be utter shite.

Joe McMahon
279 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:54:12
Ray@276, didn't the players revert back at home to Arsenal? I may be wrong but that was the worst Arsenal performance Ive ever seen and we still couldn't muster a goal. I know he made the mistake of bringing Tosun on when iwobi got injured.
Mike Gaynes
280 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:56:24
Steve #253 "I still think Brands' inability to sign a Zouma replacement was a massive reason that Silva's Everton lost so many games."

Really? Exactly which games did we lose under Silva this season because the guy who actually replaced Zouma -- Yerry Mina -- let us down?

Answer: There weren't any. Maybe one or two that could be blamed at least partially on Keane, or the Keane/Mina combination. But "many" games? Sorry, that's ridiculous. And I would point out that Mina's current partner, Holgate, was always available to Silva. He wouldn't use him.

When are you going to accept that Silva simply sucked? He sucked as a strategist, sucked as a game manager, sucked as a motivator. Even accounting for all the other contributing factors you have so eagerly pointed out both before and after his departure, the simple fact is that by far the most "massive" reason for Marco Silva's failure was... Marco Silva.

Brian Harrison
281 Posted 06/01/2020 at 16:59:45
I have said that our set up is what has allowed certain individuals to spend £450 million, and end up with a team that cant compete with a bunch of kids.

We started with Walsh and Koeman and ended up with 3 number 10s the last one costing £45 million. We also signed we were led to believe the next top striker from Spain in Sandro and are still paying most of his £100,000 per week. This was also the time when we sold Deulofeu and have not replaced his goals or assists from out wide. We have never replaced Lukaku and sold the 1st or 2nd highest goalscorer in the Premier league for £75 million.
After appointing Allardyce who in his short tenure bought Walcott and Tosun for over £50 million between them. Neither good enough for a team aspiring to compete at the top end of the table. Then onto Silva and Brands and we have been told that Brands wanted to bring in a younger type player. So he buys Mina, Digne, Gomes all decent enough players, but he was also responsible in selling Gana Gueye our stand out player from last season. Who covered more ground than any other player in the Premier league but Brands decided it was good business to sell him to PSG. Then Brands decides we need a striker to help young DCL and everybody was saying yes thats what we need an experienced Centre Forward, but instead of Dzeko or Costa he spends £30 million on a 19 year old kid like Dominic and this was a kid who spoke very little English and trying to learn in one of the hardest leagues to play in. Brands also brought in Bernard to play in the front 3 you can count on 1 hand how many goals and assists he has.

So the argument about Brands being better than Walsh is irrelevant they are both superfluous, and at what cost. Ancelotti doesnt need someone like Brands to tell him what players he will buy for the team. Let Brands liaise between the youth set up and also moving on players Ancelotti doesnt want. But surely if we have learned one thing from this DOF experiment and that is in this country it doesnt work, if you employ a world class manager let him dictate what players he needs, not what a won nothing DOF suggests.

Kieran Kinsella
282 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:00:41
Ray 276/Joe 279

Yeah I have to agree with Joe. The players performance levels dropped hugely for that Arsenal game. It seemed like Dunc was able to muster a response for a couple of games but then they reverted to type. Bottom line is the core group of mentally weak and cowardly folks have failed to perform under Ron, Silva, Sam, Unsie, Dunc and Carlo. Sam and Dunc squeezed a bit extra out of them by absolving them of passing responsibilities and going direct. But under both Sam and Dunc they found a way to be crap towards the end even when there was zero expectation of playing good football.

Richard Cusworth
283 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:02:28
It has taken me 24 hours for the anger to have reached a level to try and comprehend and rationalise what we witnessed yet. The positive... Ancelloti should have full clarity now and very quickly into his reign. I don't believe the players don't go out committed or don't want to win. I do question whether they want it enough and in particular the mental fragility is the biggest challenge here One can argue fatigue from the Xmas period played a part... But that 2nd half looked like the energy was sucked from the bodies through complete fear and lack of belief. The lack of response to the goal I cannot bring myself to believe was down to a lack of caring and self pride though my anger very much feels that's the case. The energy was not there, the mind closed the bodies down. To a man they looked spent and beaten and we have zero leaders. The three I have a crumb of empathy for, the Centre Backs asked to play out which they are not capable of... And no one to play to. DCL... effort but no product and little to feed from. Its going to be a long road and we have to give Ancelloti time. As much as wholesale changes feel is what's needed now - it isn't going to happen - it will be a slow frustrating process. Humiliating, embarrassing and the most angry I have been in 35 years. SAS are the ones that need to be the first off the sheet now - never going to be good enough. Walcott... Kicked once and that was him rabbit in headlights. I hope Ancelloti learns quickly not to ask these players to do things they can't - Dunc recognised that in his 4 games. Above all booing or getting on the players backs from here on in won't help as much as yesterday's effort deserve it. I do have concerns about the fit of Ancelotti for us, the biggest hope is he can attract a better calibre of player because recruitment is now key given our disaster of a record over recent years. Mentality should be the biggest asset for any new recruits Over to you Brands and Ancelotti we cannot again go to the depths of shame cast upon us over the last 24 hours
Ray Robinson
284 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:03:06
Steve #246, if Silva didn't instruct the players to play out from the back, then who did? The players themselves - who always look scared stiff doing it? Please don't tell me and other ToffeeWebbers what the manager is thinking. A student of the game you may well be, but I'd venture you have no more idea than me (i.e. none) what actually goes on behind the scenes at Finch Farm.
Ray Roche
285 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:05:49
Joe@279
Yes,Arsenal were crap and there for the taking as were the RS yesterday IF we’d have taken the game to them. I worry if this is going to be Ancellotti’s style of play.
Derek Knox
286 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:09:20
Jimmy @ 261, I think you are being a bit harsh on the loyal Everton fans there. Football these days apart from the obvious is a business and should be entertainment too.

The fans are unlikely to voice their support, when they are subjected to that what they witnessed yesterday, they were more than anything embarrassed about the team they have supported home and away in all weathers, having produced the worst display, and against our fiercest rivals to boot.

It has to be a two-way relationship, agreed, but it should start from the players, if they put a shift in the supporters will be vocal and encourage them to the hilt.

Peter Neilson
287 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:20:30
It certainly looked like the players had been told to play it out from the back. On a few occasions Pickford went to kick it long before changing his mind at the last moment. Regardless, even if it wasn't the plan it shouldn't be difficult to get the message to the players to stop doing it.
Danny Baily
288 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:20:36
If we can't beat their second string in a match they don't want to win in what represents the biggest match of our season then there is no point to Everton as a going concern.
Christopher Timmins
289 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:22:04
I don't want to sound like a broken record on the issue but Brands cannot escape blame for this mess. He is by no means the main contributor to it as Walsh / Keoman stand head and shoulders above everyone else in my view. However, he did not find a direct replacement for Zouma and his signings during the last window have been more miss than hit. Can anyone say that Sidibe, Kean, Delph and Iwobi have been a success? The jury is still out on Gbamin, hopefully he will be back this month and will make a contribution. Some of his signings in the summer of 2018 which appeared to be hits, Digne and Bernard in particular, have regressed. Mina has still alot to prove and Charlie is more Silva's than Brands.

Just over 13 months ago we went across the park, played their first team and were unlucky not to come away with a deserved 0 - 0 draw. It seems like a lifetime ago today.

Kieran Kinsella
290 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:24:44
Brands seems like a tool to me. Gomez had some good games but also had many terrible ones. Gbamin barely played before injury but in his debut he was compared with Per Kroldrup. Iwobi has been like an expensive hybrid of Davies and Lookman. Bernard has skill but as his stats in Ukraine showed there is no end product with goals or assists. Mina has been mediocre and injury prone but we knew he was injury prone when we signed him. Same with Delph. Gomez type injury is unlucky but if you buy someone injury prone and they keep getting injured that isn’t bad luck. Kean May come good but six months in it’s not on the horizon. Sidibe is having a worse season than JJK who we loaned out. Digne was good last year, poor this year. I think that about covers it
Phil Smith
291 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:29:37
I just wish Everton had the balls to play a side the way Liverpool did. We badly needed energy and fight. It's clear that not all of these players have that at the moment, so why don't we put out a side with 3 or 4 kids in it? If the shite can put out 7 teenagers and beat us then why couldn't have we put out 3 or 4 local lads? We had 0 out there. Maybe I'm wrong but I feel that there should always be a couple of local lads in the side for a derby. Could have had Layton and Tom in at least. The team is tired. Rest some lads. Bring back some freshness and mix it up with some pace. No Siggy or Snides again!
Duncan McDine
292 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:30:04
Last night I genuinely felt like I needed to stop following Everton for the sake of my mental well-being. This afternoon I find myself arranging a trip to Watford in mid winter to probably watch us lose. It’s like being a drug addict.
Neil Green
293 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:36:41
Kieran@290, You've completely hit the nail on the head, only thing I will add is that he also tried to sign Marcus Rojo, twice!!! A genius he certainly isn't.
Alex Lee
294 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:36:43
Well, Well, Well!!!

Siggi says they couldn't even go over to the fans at the end because "all the players are different people and where very disappointed to lose the game the way they did" — my heart bleeds.

Well, Siggi, why don't you and most of the other fuckin' cowards go down the tunnel and keep going, you shower of shit houses.

Gerard McKean
295 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:42:03
Tony #260, just for the sake of clarity, mate, I was referring to the selection of two right backs, neither of whom is better than JJK in that position (although I can have sympathy with Seamus given his past service). In terms of the left back position I’d agree with you; on current form Leighton is the best option. But why did they let Robinson go?

Anthony #267, may I join you in apologising to younger Blues? I think of my own two lads and all of you Dads who’ve mentioned your sons and daughters; they know we did the right thing as our Dads did for us, they would not have it any other way, but they deserve better than this. Stop being Mr Nice Guy, EFC, get some leaders who don’t like losing, both on the pitch and in the boardroom.

Mike Gaynes
296 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:47:35
No, Neil, Brands did not try to sign Rojo.

He did try to arrange a loan with an option to buy. Option.

Tim Smith
297 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:52:25
I stopped watching the derby a long time ago due to the inevitability of it all. I had a season ticket back in the Moyes era but gave it up due to the travelling. I've only ever been to 4 derbys and don't have a bad record - 2 wins (Carsley derby and Charity Shield many moons ago), 1 draw (Alan 'Hand'sen at Wembley) and 1 defeat 0-3 at home. My wife thought I was close to a heart attack as we held on to the win in the Carsley derby and although I'm not a scouser I wish I could bottle the feeling of victory over them.
As an earlier person commented on one of the threads, for me derby day has become a non-football day where the match is avoided and there is a cursory glance on the app/web later on in the day to check on the inevitable result. I have come to dread derby day and am glad when it's over. Luckily I don't live in Liverpool so I'm at least spared the ridicule from the RS brigade. As 4pm approached yesterday I told the wife I had some jobs to do outside and I spent nearly 2 hours in my garage tidying it up - in January. I'm a grown man approaching 60 yet this is what supporting Everton does to you. To an outside observer it might seem ridiculous behaviour but I'm sure many of you will relate to this.
You have to hand it to Klopp, playing the kids was a clever (and inevitable) psychological move because he put himself in a no-lose situation. I knew this would happen and I knew our lot of bottlers would succumb. I just don't see the hunger in most of them. Where are the players who you can see running their hearts out with energy and a hunger not to lose? Where is the Roy Keane type skipper shouting at people? It just isn't there and the fact is we have too many players who frankly are not fit to wear the shirt. To select just a few.
Walcott - has never had a real football brain and has done well in the past on some occasions just due to pace. Where is his intelligence in passing/crossing? Don't try and kid yourself, he is not a footballer.
Siggy - fat contract, not motivated enough. Always seems off the pace away from the action.
DCL - I've said it on here before, he does not have the killer instinct of a finisher. You watch his shots, often straight at the keeper. He nearly mucked up the finish at Newcastle.
Kean - I've also said it on here before, I don't think he's got it for this league. Looks too hefty in the lower abdomen and is a headless chicken.
Keane - looks like he's been psychologically damaged by playing in our defence.
Pickford - the nutty kid who's high maintenance and probably needs medication to calm him.
Richarlison - big sulk he needs a kick up the arse and told to stop falling over.
Digne - what's happened to him?
Coleman - sadly coming to end of his career (but a great servant and man of dignity).
Schneiderlin - do I need to say anything?
I could go on but you've heard it all before.
I've also questioned on here if Ancelotti is the right man to sort this mess out but I'm just going to have to cross my fingers and hope for the best. In the meantime we've got to look forward to the RS coming to Goodison and perhaps winning the title. It could just happen.
Fran Mitchell
298 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:57:19
Steve is right in that we are strangled by the previous regimes transfers. Koeman's midfield of Sigurdsson and Schneiderlin, 70 million in fees and 1million a month on wages for the pair. Both players woefully unadapt for the modern Premier League.

That is not to say our transfers under Brands are perfect, Iwobi particularly strikes as waste of money. Delph also has been greatly disappointing.

But Mina is a top quality centre back, Digne is a top quality left back, despite his current form, Gomes for 20 million is a good midfielder. GBamin we have no idea, and Kean is looking his age, but both can still have a future.

But the weight around our squads shoulders are Walcott, Tosun, Sigurdsson, Schneiderlin, and to a lesser extent Keane. All signed by previous regimes, combined fee of around 140-150 million, on contacts similar to that of Liverpool's best players.

Mike Gaynes
299 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:59:38
It's hard to look at the bigger picture with any optimism after yesterday's catastrophe, but I do want to point some things out.

We are a club in transition, with some too-young players, some too-old players and a need for speed and dynamism, but there is talent in the lineup. We don't need to steer the river through the stables and clean everything out.

We have a world-class manager, a top (in my opinion) DOF and a committed owner who has made some mistakes but corrected them. We also, if the reports are true, have a whole lot more money coming into the club.

And it now seems much more likely than not that we will be playing in a gorgeous new stadium in a couple of seasons.

I'm as pissy about yesterday as anybody, and it's a whole lot easier for me than most of you to deal with the aftermath, since I don't live on Merseyside and didn't have to go to work with the obnoxious RS fans this morning (there isn't a Red within a hundred miles to give me stick). But the fact is, this is still a great club with great support and terrific prospects for the future, and I'm trying to use that to keep yesterday in perspective.

Paul Tran
300 Posted 06/01/2020 at 17:59:45
The criticism I'd make of Brands is the players he hasn't bought. The centre mid leader with physical strength, drive and nous. The good striker we need now. The centre back with strength and presence, comfortable with the ball at his feet.

I think he's bought better players than his predecessor, but he doesn't buy ones that score goals, he doesn't buy the characters we're crying out for.

I hope at this transfer meeting today, Carlo makes it crystal clear what we need right now.

Allan Board
301 Posted 06/01/2020 at 18:04:25
Ah well, to cheer ourselves up, my son and I just watched Howard's Way. My lad is 11,a lovely left foot but needs to work harder if he wants to play this game at any level, but I digress.
I feel a bit shit about forcing Everton on him, and the lad does get stick from various numptys at school, but I do tell him to just ask them to give him directions to Old Trafford or Anfield or Stamford Bridge or whoever they follow-99%of the time they don't even know which city there in! Tom has been to Goodison on dozens of occasions and as bad as its been still wants to start going again, so I may have to forget my pride and take him. What a great lad tho!
Anyways, we are watching the dvd and all various footage of games, and I'm busy telling him how good Reidy was, that Sheeds has a wand of a left foot like him, Sharpy being brilliant at holding the ball up, Inchy was technically ahead of his time etc, you could go on and on.
From the outtakes of interview's, he recognised who was who, but he kept his counsel until after it had finished and I asked him what he thought of it all. He said this, "wow, how good were Everton dad, why don't they play like that now?" So I asked him what he meant and he said, "they never let the other teams play, and just took the ball off them quickly and attacked" He also took on board what Big Nev said about the dressing room being a vicious place, "but we had to find out whether they could handle banter, if not, what use were they on the pitch to us?" he asked whether it was like that when I played which I replied yes, but that we all got on great, we just wanted to win mate. He also noted that they all got on really well, looked they were enjoying it and looked like a team. Surprisingly, he thought that the game looked much quicker and nastier than now, and likened it to the way the shite and city play now.
Interesting, especially that last bit. Football always starts with hard work and endeavour, how times have changed, sadly for the worse.
Given me fresh impetus though, amazing kids aren't they?
Brent Stephens
302 Posted 06/01/2020 at 18:08:22
Mike #299 there are a few Heracles here who’d disagree with you. Or at least reroute one river.
John P McFarlane
303 Posted 06/01/2020 at 18:09:38
I can't even pick the right players for the Fantasy League, with that in mind I think it's best that I refrain from criticising professionals who are dealing with actual money and actual human beings.

The call for going back to life without a Director of Football won't be heeded, Brands may or not be any use but can he be blamed for players suddenly turning to the brown stuff as soon as they don an Everton kit? The wholesale moving out of players, won't happen either, so that can be forgotten as an option.

We are where we are and it's up to the people running the club to sort out the mess. First thing they should do, is to investigate why the indivdual players are unable to do the basics with any consistency and ask them why they don't seem to function as a team. The players are capable of doing it, because we've seen them do it, not often but we have seen it.

Staying up is the only thing on the agenda today, how we do it, who helps us to do it, that doesn't matter, but do it we must.


Mike Gaynes
304 Posted 06/01/2020 at 18:09:57
Lovely post, Allan #301. Best of the day.

Brent #302, I knew you'd catch the reference, being such a classic guy yourself.

Brent Stephens
305 Posted 06/01/2020 at 18:27:55
Mike, not as highbrow as Carlo!
Rob Halligan
306 Posted 06/01/2020 at 18:27:57
Allan, # 301. I watched Howard's Way on the coach up to Newcastle last weekend, and for some reason it was also put on for the return journey.

Anyway, part of the film I enjoyed was the interview with Kevin Ratcliffe, following the injury to Adrian Heath. The retribution taken out on Brian Marwood for his horrendous challenge on "Inchy", not just in that game against Sheff.Wed, but also in future games for whatever team Marwood was playing for. As Rats said, we would always look after our team mates out on the pitch. How true that was, unlike today, when most of our team seem too scared to throw in a challenge and, while not intentionally hurt an opponent, at least let them know you are around. We seem more concerned by an opponent being injured and trying to help him up!

Join # 303. You always seem to do well against me in the Head to Head league we have. You don't even look at your team from one week to the next, but still beat me when we meet.😞😞😞

John P McFarlane
307 Posted 06/01/2020 at 18:30:17
I haven't looked at my team since Silva was here Rob :)

Darren Hind
308 Posted 06/01/2020 at 19:16:55
As ever Lyndon. You capture the mood of the fan base. Your own despair is there for all to see.. But I cannot agree that Ancelotti shouldnt shoulder a huge proportion of the blame for this nightmare of a defeat.

The desperation felt by anyone connected with this club was (imo), so avoidable.. WTF was he thinking playing Schneiderlin and Sigurdsson in the middle of the park ?

The German surprised nobody when he named a bunch of kids, He hadn`t even tried to keep it a secret. The people in our camp MUST have known. wat they would face.
These RS kids havent yet made the grade, some of them probably never will. The only thing we could have been absolutely certain of was that they would bring a high degree of energy...so we match them up with one of the most pedestrian midfield partnerships the premier league has seen ? I still cant take it in.

Tom Davies has been thrown in against some of the best midfield players in the league in recent weeks. He may not have always come out on top, but he has held his own. This game was crying out for him. His opponents may have been his peers but he is vastly more experienced than them. he`s accomplished more than them. How we can ask him to play against the best adn most experienced, then deny him the opportunity to show his metal against lesser experienced players is beyond me.
The same goes for Mason Holgate. He has acquitted himself so well against vastly more experienced, hardened players when asked to step into midfield. Why didnt we have these two matching their energy ?. . . And whats all this two right back lark ?.. Why on earth didnt he play Richarlison wide right. we know he can play there.
Why didnt we give young Kean a start against players his own age ? We have repeatedly asked this kid to compete with vastly experienced arl arsed center halves, but we don't give him a chance to build his confidence against lesser players of his own age ? What the fuck is all that about ?

I accept Ancelotti has only been here a short while. I accept he has to be given time to turn this basket case of a club around, I accept and agree with every world Lyndon pens when he is hammering the players. but none of that should mean we should afford Ancelotti immunity from any blame or accountability.

He fucked up big time with his selection last night and he should be called on it

Bill Gall
309 Posted 06/01/2020 at 19:19:00
Last nights result gave a realistic view of were we are with our present squad. The official Everton website only lists 3 players on the injured list and as one of them Gabamin has been injured from practically the start of the season we had nearly all of our squad that were ready play.

There is not a lot more that can be written about the disgraceful, even cowardly performance from a bunch of players who have the cheek to call themselves professionals. The thing that sickens me is these overpaid, under performing rubbish that come out the next day, after shaming the badge of Everton F.C. saying they will improve in the next game. What kind of a statement is that, you pick and choose games you play well in. No you are paid to do a job and perform to the best of your abilities every time you go on the pitch to represent Everton F.C.

Ancelloti must have got his eyes opened by the lack of effort especially in the 2nd half to the huge job he has gotten himself into, and win or loose this weekend don't even allow some of the poorer players from last night to even be on the subs bench.

Niall McIlhone
311 Posted 06/01/2020 at 19:29:09
Can't disagree with any of that Lyndon. That might possibly have been the most gutless performance since the players gave up in that away game at Arsenal where they tonked us 6-0.
Most PL fans can' t see the point of Everton. We have hung around like a bad smell for decades, and only a brief flirtation with the Moyes and Martinez years since Kendall have offered anything remotely interesting so we end up in 2020with a bunch of disinterested mercenaries.
Rob Halligan
312 Posted 06/01/2020 at 19:39:26
Bill # 309. Do you think any player would give a monkey's arse if they were not even picked to be on the bench? Paid about £75K plus per week, for doing absolutely nothing. That must be heaven for any professional footballer.
Mike Doyle
313 Posted 06/01/2020 at 19:50:20
Can any of the ITK posters enlighten us as to what was said at today’s meeting between Carlo and Brands?
Jim Baker
314 Posted 06/01/2020 at 19:59:09
Alan @200
It was Gary Player, right sport wrong golfer.
Brian Williams
315 Posted 06/01/2020 at 20:02:03
Mike#313.
I have it on good authority that Ancelotti asked Brands ONE question, which was "D'yer think we should both just get ter fuck"?
Kevin Prytherch
316 Posted 06/01/2020 at 20:20:36
Just read this somewhere else - quite like the summary, especially the one about Schneiderlin...

Lucas Digne and Yerry Mina came from Barcelona but both played like it was the Ecuadorian team.
Gylfi Sigurdsson cost £40 million. He can’t run. It physically pains him to run.
Pickford is a great shot-stopper and a wonderful presence in goal but has to ask old ladies to reach stuff on the top shelf for him in Tesco.
Seamus Coleman hasn’t been the same since the leg break,
Mason Holgate looks every bit a quality player until he inexplicably passes the ball to the opposition four times in a row
and Richarlison loses his head the moment he realises his teammates are all useless. Which happens a lot.
Djibril Sidibe looks more Serge Aurier than Serge Aurier, which isn’t a great sign, but was at least the only Everton player to go over to the away fans at the end of the game.
You could put an office swivel chair in midfield instead of Morgan Schneiderlin and you honestly wouldn’t notice the difference.

Conor McCourt
317 Posted 06/01/2020 at 20:25:52
Mike 299-I love how yourself and Mike Dolan are coming out swinging and trying to lift a dejected fan base but I really feel you are living in cloud cuckoo land with that post.

1) we are permanently a club in transition
2)The some too old are roughly the same age as Leicesters leaders and talismen (Evans Schmiecal Vardy)
while the some too young dido (Maddison,Tielemans,Soyuncu)
3)We don't have a world class manager, we have a former world class manager
4)We have a DOF who spent over 100 million this summer and made the squad considerably worse with not one of his six signings being a clear success, some failures and some unlucky/undecided
5) We have an owner who swaps between ideologies and managers at the drop of a hat and hasn't a clue what he is doing.

I genuinely don't mean this to have a go but I'm more worried about our club now than I ever was under Kenwright, Moyes and Martinez. We were skint, we were proud, we had our moments but we were Everton. I don't know who these fuckers who are playing for us and I don't trust those at the top end to make it any better soon.

Neil Copeland
318 Posted 06/01/2020 at 20:28:50
Mike #313, “from me to you”
Phil Sammon
319 Posted 06/01/2020 at 20:29:55
Took my Aussie wife to her first Everton game on Boxing Day. She has pretty much no interest in ‘soccer’ but I thought she made a great observation about Holgate. She said that he seems more concerned with how he looks making the pass rather than where it’s actually going.
Simon Dalzell
320 Posted 06/01/2020 at 20:45:48
Really enjoying Leeds giving the Arse a lesson. Bielsas' imprint on this relatively cheaply assembled team is so obvious. Young, fit athletic,skillful, great control and passing, organised, having a game plan, beautiful football. EVERYTHING we're NOT !!!!!
It may be quite a while until we're as good.
Jim Burns
321 Posted 06/01/2020 at 20:49:40
Great post that Allan at 301 - I hope you and your lad are watching Leeds working their socks off against Arsenal tonight - nuff said.
Your boy - like mine - is already on a path to the Promised Land and he'll get there one day. I just hope I'm still around to see it too!
Rob Halligan
322 Posted 06/01/2020 at 20:52:07
Leeds are playing really well, Simon, and you cant say it's an inexperienced Arsenal team either. The Leeds midfield is getting right into the faces of the Arsenal midfield, they are not giving them a second on the ball. They are also trying balls over the top of the Arsenal defence, something we never did yesterday, and sooner or later I fancy Leeds to score.
Simon Dalzell
323 Posted 06/01/2020 at 21:01:54
Thanks for the reply Rob. Usually when I comment, and especially when I try to be funny, it stops the thread dead....... Hold on. I've put the mockers on . 1 nil Arsenal !!
Andrew Dempsey
324 Posted 06/01/2020 at 21:02:42
This Leeds outfit that Bielsa has tailored, is light years ahead of anything Ancelotti will be able to produce in his one and a half seasons with us.
We’ll get nowhere near this level of football, and it will cost us a few hundred million to find out.
Leeds build from the back, but they do it intelligently and with a lot of zip and composure, it’s not predictable, and they will go long with a measured direct ball, when it’s on, and if it’s needed.
Rob Halligan
325 Posted 06/01/2020 at 21:09:06
Shows how much I know. The second half is all Arsenal who now lead 1-0.
Paul Smith
326 Posted 06/01/2020 at 21:10:35
Duncan @292 I can help you with your destructive addiction - £40 an hour. Btw after yesterday there is no way I am going to Watford -still too angry!!
Simon Dalzell
327 Posted 06/01/2020 at 21:12:46
Totally agree, Andrew.
Jamie Evans
328 Posted 06/01/2020 at 22:03:46
I remember when Moyes came we had a few players tied down on large contracts, very difficult to off load. Going be a tough couple of years I reckon.

Similar situation now. I’m not a fan of Brands and would rather he wasn’t here, but if there is one way he could prove himself it would be somehow negotiate a few deals for players (Schneiderlin, siggy, Keane, Bolasie, Tosun, Walcott) and free up some wages for younger hungrier players.

We need to stop throwing money at it and only sign players with care and diligence. Actually build a team and squad.

Jeff Holt
329 Posted 06/01/2020 at 22:53:00
After almost 60 years of going to Goodison I can't recall a more humiliating performance than Sundays and there have been plenty. Sigurdsson says they went straight down the tunnel as they were so disappointed? No mate, you did that because you were ashamed of the so-called performance you and that other lamppost, Schneiderlin gave. No guts, no speed, couldn't care less. How you have the cheek to pick up your wages I don't know.

The next day after a match you usually calm down a bit but I am still furious at the spineless showing of some of that team and I can't yet imagine watching Everton again while that deadwood and Walcott are still there.
Rob Marsh
330 Posted 06/01/2020 at 22:59:25
Marco Silva must be pissing himself with laughter now.

And I know exactly what he's thinking: "They asked me to polish a turd while I was there and now they're asking Ancelotti! He'll be gone in a season!"

Karl Meighan
331 Posted 07/01/2020 at 00:59:34
There is not a player on the books who we cannot afford to lose not one? Its a long time ago if ever that iv ever said those words. All of them should be available and lots on free transfers.

Martin Mason
332 Posted 07/01/2020 at 10:16:18
Ancelotti has the most difficult job in the game. The expectation from board and fans is stratospheric and yet he has one of the weakest squads in the EPL and a massive psychological problem that's taken root in the squad and the club. He has to initially go for promotion of youngsters to get SAS out of the squad altogether and then he has to buy but how? We'll be 6th in the queue for EPL clubs that anybody would want to join. There's massive anger in the fan base too and this could be destructive if it isn't channelled positively.
Jay Evans
333 Posted 07/01/2020 at 12:34:01
Which players could we realistically bring in on Saturday that would make a difference to those frauds that took to the field on Sunday ?

Serious question.

We have to make changes that much is a certainty but with who ?

Davies ? Possibly.
Gordon ? Adeniran ? Gibson ?

Jim Baker
334 Posted 07/01/2020 at 12:36:40
Sorry if it's just me being thick or worse but can somebody please explain the restrictions of FFP rules and the position Everton find themselves in because of these rules, it just seems we are the only club worrying about this. Is FFP the reason we can't get rid of the shite in the squad because of the amount we paid for them as apposed to what we can recoup for them. It all seems quite complicated but probably isn't it's just me. How many other clubs need to worry about this?
Thanks boys. As a ps yes what a pathetic performance on Sunday, it's all been said by others more knowledgable than me but God it was awful as Dick Emery used to say.

Mods. If his should be on a different thread then feel free to move it, thanks.

Phil Greenough
335 Posted 07/01/2020 at 13:25:01
I've lost count of the posts asking for young, hungrier players. Who's got the magic wand to find them? As we've seen already, once players do get the Willy Wonka, magic gold ticket to the premier League, they almost to a man, down tools and live the good life.

Most of us embraced the majority of players we've signed over the past few years and waxed lyrical about them. All of the previous managers had to pay over the odds in either wages or fees, to get them to sign for Everton, because like it or not, that's where we are in the pecking order.

What really pisses me off though, are those posters who come on TW and write how they've never liked, (insert manager/player) and they've been proved right because they're (insert adjective/expletive). Seriously, what is the point of their scribblings?

Then we have the sell them all rants, for God's sake, how do we do that? Most of our players have at least a couple of years to run on their contract, how do we get other teams to buy our rubbish?

Every purchase of a new player is a roll of the dice, put our low confidence and fear of fucking up even more into the mix and you've got a recipe for disaster. We're at that point now.

I haven't got the answers, I'm praying that Mr Ancelloti has. I've read a couple of decent posts, that realistically reflects our situation, but one that stood out was where the author reminded everyone, through the tale of his grandfather who supported LFC, that he had to live in Everton's shadow for years, before he tasted success. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is where we are right now.

Stan Schofield
336 Posted 07/01/2020 at 13:40:02
As far as I'm concerned the defeat on Sunday wasn't humiliating, because it was totally down to us being shite. If we'd played half-decently, we'd have thrashed them. They weren't particularly good, but we were simply shite. In contrast, if we'd played at our best and yet been outplayed by those youngsters, then THAT would have been humiliating.

This wasn't the worst game in my memory. I'm spoiled for choice as to what game that might be, and it would be too much mental effort to isolate any one game.

As to getting stick from reds, well, for fuck sake, that's part and parcel of being a Blue living in Liverpool. You either hide away, or give back as good as you're given, there's no point in complaining about having to face them the next day. You can just get hardened to it, I know, because I have.

Sunday is now history. The next game is the next game. As Big Dunc said when he took over, we take one game at a time, and do not dwell on what's been or what might be. We have a new manager, supposedly a top one, which most of us have been craving for. So let's see how he can sort this lot out and make them worthy of wearing the same colours that were worn by Labone, Ball, Kendall and Reid.

Mike Dolan
337 Posted 07/01/2020 at 14:30:07
Stan my sentiments entirely. The performance on Saturday will teach Ancellotti more about the team that he has inherited than any of the enjoyable ‘dead cat bounce’ victories that have happened since Silva left.

We were still several players away from having a full deck before the dreadful long term injuries that have totally disconnected our front from our back since the beginning of the season.

The players we have are not as terrible as they appear sometimes. There are a couple who seem to have lost their legs but circumstances force them into the side.

A couple of signings this month and we should stabilize a little but we are still going to be a mid table side. But we will be going in the right direction.

As far as continuing development it will probably help long term to not qualify for Europa. Bring some players in, get a system down and benefit from a real pre-season next year. I can’t help but think that the really poor pre-seasons lately have at least contributed to some of the injuries that have plagued us in recent years. We are not fit enough.

Sam Bull
338 Posted 07/01/2020 at 16:17:46
my 2p for what its worth..

Schniederlin should be nowhere near this team, as of at least 2 years ago,
I know we are limited to experienced midfielders at present, this can be the only reason he gets a game.

Walcott is not good enough, never was, is a chicken without a head, if anything ever "comes off for him" its luck, and he never meant it.

Siggy is a "free role" player, whether that is something we can afford or not I'm not sure. He setup the Walcott chance, where he miss controlled it for DCL to strike early on in the game, Siggy also took the freekick that created the Holgate chance, had they both been converted that would of been his contribution and anything else would of been forgotten. He is not a box to box midfielder. id guess he was picked again purely because of our limited options.

Pickford, in my opinion can be blamed partly for the goal, as it was he who tried to kick the ball 30 yards into central midfield giving the ball away (Countless times) for them to score, and if it didn't go to an opponent, it went into touch.

im gonna take the RS game as a blessing in disguise, maybe it will be an eye opener for Ancelotti. Had we won it convincingly none of the problems would have come to light.

Rob Halligan
339 Posted 07/01/2020 at 16:25:02
Meanwhile, still nothing of note on the official club website. Only a story on Joao Virginia returning to the club, and Ancelotti talking about academy players making the upgrade to the first team.
Dave Williams
340 Posted 07/01/2020 at 16:47:06
Very roughly our fans would have paid around £275k to watch that capitulation on Sunday. The players could chuck in just a modest percentage of their weekly wage to cover that outlay as a contribution to Speedo Mick’s latest fundraising walk.
I know some at least do their bit for charity but it might help to calm things down a bit after the Sigurdsson interview?
Steve Brown
341 Posted 07/01/2020 at 17:08:37
Conor @ 317, Ancelotti remains a world class manager (4 champions leagues and league title in England, Spain, Italy and Germany means that is a given). If he is making no progress in 18 months, then come on and try to retread your wearisome line that we hired a has-been.

But trying to pitch that message when he is 2 weeks in the job runs the risk of making readers dismiss everything you write because of the absurdity of that statement. Sure he screwed up trusting the same rank senior pros who have dragged this team down for 4 years, but he didnt win all those trophies by not being able to see what is before his eyes.

Paul Tran
342 Posted 07/01/2020 at 17:24:44
Jim #334, regarding FFP, clubs cannot make a loss of more than £105m over a three year period. The current period ends this summer and we are pretty close to that limit. Our best ways out of this are player sales and/or increased revenue. It's all about profit and loss, therefore Moshiri can't simply bankroll us.

If you follow @theesk on Twitter or www.theesk.com, Paul explains it far better than me, but that's the gist of it.

Bill Fairfield
343 Posted 07/01/2020 at 17:30:45
Stan I don't think there's a manager in world football that could sort that lot out
Mike Powell
344 Posted 07/01/2020 at 20:56:01
I am still fuming at that disgusting performance, it will take a while to get over it.we must have the worst midfied in the prem. Siggi is finnished, they were all bad but he was by far the worse player on the pitch. Not one of them players deserve to play for Everton, I couldn't care less if we sold everyone of them. The anger I feel towards them players, I can't put into words so better leave it at that
Mike Gwyer
345 Posted 07/01/2020 at 21:19:10

How sad can you get, but seriously..

Klopp and the RS decided to give Everton a free pass to the 4th round of the FA cup. Box ticked. A win at Anfield as well. Box fucking ticked. Even the bookies made Everton favourites to win this game, I mean City were better odds than us to win at Anfield. So, box fucking ticked again.

Enter stage Everton's first 11 and the RS's mixture of 2nd, 3rd and backup first team players. Well Agatha Christie could not have written a better script finishing with Klopp laughing his socks off as he watched us trying to score, defend and pass the ball.

The bottom of the barrel has finally been fucking reached, so Siggy, Walcott and Schniiiidereline, thank you. Now fuckoff.

Bill Fairfield
346 Posted 07/01/2020 at 22:17:20
Have decided if the Morgan fella is named in the team v Brighton I will not be going through the turnstile
Dick Fearon
347 Posted 07/01/2020 at 22:40:02
If our academy cannot produce a single player of the same quality as did the RS we should get rid of the whole set up and start afresh with new coaches.
Paul Cherrington
348 Posted 08/01/2020 at 09:39:43
If Ancelotti was so adept at seeing what is happening in front of him, why did he persist with playing the ball out from the back when it was killing us? Why has he not carried on with the tactics Big Dunc was using which were clearly better suited to the players he has to use? Why did he not make the right substitutions or any changes sooner in the 2nd half?

Don't get me wrong - he is a top manager but you cannot absolve him of any blame because of that. I can only imagine the stick that someone like Moyes or Allardyce would be getting if they had stood by and allowed a result like that to happen!

Paul A Smith
349 Posted 08/01/2020 at 10:38:14
After all that 'big news next week' big announcement from the club my source says" shite from Paul the Esk on Twitter that continuously never happened, I can't take the man serious and theres nothing concrete in his financial predictions either. Except to say we can't just keep spending.

I don't think anyone needs an ITK fibber to tell them we can't just keep spending unless we bring investments in.

Steve Ferns
350 Posted 08/01/2020 at 11:02:05
Paul, I have never once seen Paul the Esk claim to be "in the know". He does the Everton Business Matters Podcast with Roger Armstrong and John Blaine. John Blaine being the head of the Everton Minority Shareholders Association. The three are professionals in the financial world and minority shareholders at Everton and so like to talk about the business side of things on their Podcast and on twitter. A niche because few can be bothered to do the homework required to have a valid opinion on these things.

If you listen to the Podcast, they have repeatedly queried what Moshiri is up top and how he is raising capital. They thought there would be a shares issue. They need the AGM so questions can be asked and answers can be given. Of course the accounts will be presented and then the trio can work out what exactly has happened from the last set and explain it to us.

To call the Esk an ITK fibber is wrong.

Paul A Smith
351 Posted 08/01/2020 at 11:23:01
Steve, loads of people say the same. He was famous on Twitter for it. And I don't lie and have seen some of his wait for it moments.

Martin Mason
352 Posted 08/01/2020 at 12:25:12
Paul's podcasts are very good and very informative as are all his articles on this site. Yes he is absolutely ITK compared with the majority because he works on it before commenting. I's very good advice.
Steve Ferns
353 Posted 08/01/2020 at 12:29:29
Paul, I follow him on twitter and have never noticed anything like that. Perhaps it happened and I didn't read it. I'm intrigued as to what these "wait for it" moments are.

The only prediction I saw him make was to say that Zaha would not be signed as we could not afford him on FFP. He was proved wrong when we bid, but right when we did not increase the bid.

Paul A Smith
354 Posted 08/01/2020 at 12:34:13
So am I Steve. I came off that Brain diaease 3 years ago but fully remember his ITK stuff and I don't make stories up about anyone.

I am at work with people right now who have seen exactly the same from him. Its points for podcasts these days and Paul along with that John fella don't tell you anything the Echo doesn't tell you.

I cannot believe you are not aware of his fame for 'watch this space' kind of talk.

Yes Martin that is great if they actually are "in the know"(which is cringey and fame hunting) or if they actually tell you something you couldn't research yourself.

Tell you what Steve, why dont you tweet -what is the Esk like on twitter etc and watch the reaction. I'd bet my life you hear what i am telling you.

Steve Ferns
355 Posted 08/01/2020 at 12:38:06
Paul, I find that when the Esk talks football, I disagree with what he says, so I will only concentrate on anything financial. I also follow lots of people about lots of different things and so it's hard to keep abreast of it all. I spend no more than 30 minutes a day reading stuff on twitter, and that's mainly just looking at what the TW guys say (Lyndon, Paul Tran, John Pierce, guys like that).
Paul A Smith
356 Posted 08/01/2020 at 12:55:56
Anyone can be right or wrong Steve I wouldn't be as crazy as to say he won't get anything right in the future but I also wouldn't advise anyone to follow his words.

I try to be straight and true to everyone Steve and I would meet you and the Esk in The Oak and tell it exactly as I see it but also be civilised and genuine.

Rob Halligan
357 Posted 08/01/2020 at 13:09:14
It's being reported on SSN that Marcel Brands has met a group of angry Everton fans outside finch farm, who wanted to confront certain players over their commitment last Sunday. It says Brands managed to calm them down. Nothing else was added by SSN. Be interesting to hear any follow up to this.
Paul Jones
358 Posted 08/01/2020 at 13:14:59
Rob @357

I heard he agreed to let them in for a meeting as they were threatening to come back mob-handed unless their voices could be heard.

They were ushered into a meeting room away from players and manager and gave vent to frustrations about 4 players in particular (Schneiderlin, Sigurdsson, Walcott and Tosun) being high earners but offering nothing.

Brands heard them out without voicing an opinion either way but said his hands were tied due to FFP.

I'm surprised they were allowed in TBH.

Colin Glassar
359 Posted 08/01/2020 at 13:17:30
Another nail in our PR coffin, Rob.

When I started supporting Everton, seems like centuries ago now, it never crossed my mind that we would become a laughing stock and would go trophyless, hopeless and clueless in such a short (relatively) time.

Conor McCourt
360 Posted 08/01/2020 at 13:29:41
Steve 341- I personally feel it's justifiable and more accurate to label Carlo a former world class manager. The decima was five and a half years ago which in my opinion was his last of many world class achievements.

Since then;
Led Real to 3rd place in a traditional 2 horse race
Won the German title with a significant diminished margin in a 1 horse race and was sacked after a poor start and unrest over fitnesss.
Took Napoli from a title challenging team to 8th place.

Some TW have argued for reasons for these declines but they are as real as his successes.

Steve I will ask you a few hypotheticals:
1- if Ancelotti was appointed Barcas new coach instead of us would you have raised an eyebrow (excuse the pun)?
2-why did a mediocre Arsenal hierarchy turn their nose up at a world class manager who was available,no payoff, wanted the job,has a residence and has a reputation for organising defences and harmonising big egos?
3-do you consider Alexis Sanchez world class? 3-4 years ago he was competing with Aguero and Hazard as the best in the PL and he can still win a title this year?
4-Could a clearly non world class manager like Koeman have done what Ancelotti has with the resources he had over the last 4 or 5 years considering what he is doing with his country?

Mike Doyle
361 Posted 08/01/2020 at 13:29:57
A number of media outlets reporting that a number of (senior) players had a go back at Duncan after he let them know his thoughts on their performance after the game.
If true its a shame they weren't capable of applying the same level of bravery on the pitch.
Colin Glassar
362 Posted 08/01/2020 at 13:38:48
Mike, I think the term “senior players” is a misnomer when it comes to Everton. Senior players lead by example. Senior players don’t panic or bottle it. Senior players show pride in their craft. Our “senior players” should just be referred to as “older players”. Senior is too big a word for them.
Stan Schofield
363 Posted 08/01/2020 at 13:44:21
Paul@358: Maybe they were allowed in because 'politically' it could suit the aims of Ancelotti and Brands for a member of the Everton board to be actively listening to the concerns of the fan base, in terms of getting the Board to agree to sell certain players and replace them pronto with better quality.

Mike@361: Maybe it's 'showdown time' and very soon a number of these players will be gone.

Kieran Kinsella
364 Posted 08/01/2020 at 14:12:46
I hope Tony Marsh was among the Brands seven
Paul A Smith
365 Posted 08/01/2020 at 14:15:56
Rob I have got texts from a couple of the lads who were there. The club is rotten for a while and I wouldn't expect anything positive for a while when it comes to ins and outs.

I am gutted I never went with the lads at Finch Farm now.

Rob Halligan
366 Posted 08/01/2020 at 14:22:47
Me too, Paul. I only live about ten minutes drive from finch farm and was tempted to go down yesterday.
Andrew Ellams
367 Posted 08/01/2020 at 14:27:27
Rob @ 357 The Times is reporting that the supporters demanded to voice their opinions to the players which was refused. Brands came out, spoke to them for a while and promised to pass their opinions on to the players. Personally I think Duncan should be the man to deal with the fans over this.
Andrew Ellams
368 Posted 08/01/2020 at 14:29:18
The Mirror is also reporting that Ancelotti is trying to bring in serious competition for Pickford this month but we'll see. There are bigger priorities right now.
Conor McCourt
369 Posted 08/01/2020 at 14:35:55
Stan 363- that was my thoughts that Carlo must use this to put pressure on Moshiri to begin the cull even if we have to take a hit. One of the big things I liked from Solsjaer was getting players out who he felt would toxify the training ground even though he has lost out on quality. The added team unity can offset that.
Paul A Smith
370 Posted 08/01/2020 at 14:36:58
I would have fired questions at Brands too. Its getting very dramatic now and the bandwagon will drive everyone to either hating or failing to support a certain group of players.

Each to their own but I am worried 4 or 5 players that we need will down tools. Bit of an understatement as some seem to have already done that but you get my theory.

Rob Halligan
371 Posted 08/01/2020 at 14:47:27
Meanwhile, West ham away has sold out!
Andrew Ellams
372 Posted 08/01/2020 at 14:50:12
The club are now investigating a spat between Fabian Delph and a fan over social media. This is just spiralling into the full package of embarrassment now and somebody needs to fix it ASAP.
Conor McCourt
373 Posted 08/01/2020 at 14:56:40
Hope Fabian is ok for Saturday as he may pick up an eye injury if on the iPad too long.
Ray Said
374 Posted 08/01/2020 at 15:02:36
One of things that led to such a disgraceful showing was the fact that we started the short passing from the GK to the defenders crap again. Ferguson stopped them doing that while he was in charge but it was there in all its uselessness again in the cup tie. At times we had three defenders either in the box or less than ten yards from the GK, that dragged the line back, dragged the midfield back and made the strikers isolated. We simply don't have the players for it.
I watched the Liverpool v Napoli CL match and Napoli were doing the same thing except they had players that could do it. It indicates to me that Ancelotti instructed them to play that way which then indicates that he has not reviewed how we played under Silva as it was a Silva type line up, Silva type tactics and a Silva type performance. That is worrying.
Mike Dolan
375 Posted 08/01/2020 at 15:10:03
I’ve watched that game three times now. It’s a bit of a classic for exposing our weaknesses and some of the faults that have been evident for a number of years were outrageously exposed, more so because of who we were playing than anything else.
Sigurdsson seems to bearing most of the criticism and for me while he’s as awful it is ironic that after he was subbed out the team performance became notably worse. The player who replaced him, Delph was shockingly bad. He is nothing more than a fill in full back and lacks any quality that you would hope for any of the mid field positions. So far this season he has talked some really good games though.
Pickford has become a total enigma. He looked great when he first came to Everton probably because he was probably more focused. He is THE total reaction goalie he can look like a world beater but he so lacks on the simple basics that I’m not sure if he will ever have that reliability factor that great goalies all have. Oh for a Nigel Martin just now. There’s a lot to be said for ‘steady’.
Schneiderlin the crowd just hate and have done since the infamous training ground incident. There has never been a future for him at Everton since then and he plays like he knows it. Him and Siggy are luxury players, Siggy can be a beautiful footballer who really doesn’t fit the modern game. Schneid’s is a world class back passer and always seems to be one tackle away from a red card. He might do well in different circumstances but he needs to go just to cheer everyone up.
Gavin Johnson
376 Posted 08/01/2020 at 15:20:37
I suspect that Fabian Delph was one of the players who took offense to being criticised after the Liverpool shit show by Duncan Ferguson. He's quite the big time Charlie coming from City. He must think we're beneath him going on how he spoke to the Everton supporter who criticised him on social media. The screen shots have been published by the Daily Star today.

Andrew #368. Yes, fingers crossed we do bring in another GK who can come in and be a strong No.2 or a replacement for Jordan Pickford. I'd buy Jack Butland. He's still at Stoke. Wouldn't cost the world and would push Pickford to up his game and stop the fucking about with his kicking.

Brian Williams
377 Posted 08/01/2020 at 15:22:08
Anybody heard anything about Brands intention to speak to the fans?
Talksport reporting it.

Sorry read back through the thread and found references to Brands talk.

Andrew Ellams
378 Posted 08/01/2020 at 15:27:11
Gavin, my guess is Butland hasn't recovered from the serious injury he had a couple of years ago or he wouldn't still be at Stoke.
Paul A Smith
379 Posted 08/01/2020 at 17:44:48
Conor 373 you keep ToffeeWeb down to earth mate with that comical sarcasm.

Gavin we can always tell him if he was good enough for City he should still be there.

That should be his mentality but he seems to be coming from some deluded superstar angle.

He needed bringing down to earth and the chat I read with the fan, the fan was spot on and had more class than Delph.

Conor McCourt
380 Posted 08/01/2020 at 19:03:00
Paul A 379- We have to do something buddy to keep a smile on our faces, it's been a tough week and I don't have to put with the shit that you local boys do
Stephen Waller
381 Posted 08/01/2020 at 19:48:02
A training video for prospective Everton signings.

https://www.facebook.com/FootballFanCast/videos/kaiser-who-was-the-conman-/489087248263524/

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