Scumbag

If you know your history or have read this 130-page publication, you'll be aware that 'King John of Everton' built two successful – make that world-class – professional football clubs during his lifetime. Some Blues forget that without his ambition, influence and financial support, Everton enthusiasts would still be playing in Stanley Park.

The author is a member of the EFC Heritage Society and his book should be of interest to all real fans of Merseyside football and others interested in the complex civic culture and social history of Victorian Merseyside.

Highly recommended.

I think the title is all wrong considering Everton was the first club and E comes before L, especially if the author is a member of the Evertton Heritage Society, but maybe I've got a bee in my bonnet because I've just read that Shankly was the greatest manager of all time, a man with a record that just eclipsed our own Harry Catterick.

Excellent piece. very well research.

Should we be petitioning Liverpool Council to put a blue plaque on the main stand at Anfield to say that this was where "Everton Football Club" started.
Would be interesting if passed by the council if the current officials of the property objected?

If your contention is authoritarian and disliker of all things media, Harry Catterick, could have done the same then I fear we are on completely opposite paths. When Shankly left, his foundations carried on to even greater success; when Catterick left, we turned to mush – something we have never truly recovered from.

I'd say Forest were a much smaller club than Liverpool, Barry, and Clough took them up, then won the league, then the European cup twice.

Was Clough a better manager than Shankly? I don't know... it's normally a personal opinion, but you can't tell me what he won at Forest wasn't a much bigger achievement than what Shankly won at Liverpool.

Shankly might have laid the foundations but it was Paisley who gave them a European pedigree, whilst Heysel possibly denied Howard Kendall the chance to replicate both Clough and Paisley for Everton.

What about Sir Alex Ferguson? He took a club with their best days behind them but won more in a few decades than Everton has won in its entire existence.

Brian Clough didn't create a dynasty but he took Derby County to the title and semi-finals of the European Cup and then went one better with Nottm Forest. I would argue that Cloughie's achievements are up there with any of the 'Gods' of Liverpool.

Don't forget that, only 11 or 12 years before everybody's favourite manager [not mine] arrived, the other lot had won the title – the first of the post-war era.

It was Shankly that laid the foundations, set the template and introduced a system that Paisley continued. Would Paisley have done as good a job as Shankly had he taken over at that time? We'll never know, but Shankly elevated Liverpool into the limelight with his personality, something Catterick could never do, to our cost.

He was lucky in as much as the city of Liverpool was in the spotlight due to the emergence of, among others, The Beatles. That group ensured that Liverpool, the city, was constantly in the news, so every wannabe star from Merseyside soon realised that it was to their advantage to support LFC, and to tell everyone, even if they'd never been to Anfield. Who hasn't thrown up after listening to 'Our Cilla' banging on about King Feckin Kenny etc?

Liverpool was the place to be and to come from, and with half of Britain not realising Everton was from Liverpool, our name wasn't on every bugger's lips. I firmly believe that all their stars aligned at that time: Shankly, The Beatles, The Merseysound, all catapulted Liverpool FC into the nation's conscience. We have never caught up.

One thing I’d give Liverpudlians, is that I don’t think they would have got to the final in Istanbul, without the backing of their support at Anfield, and I’m not certain they would have come from three goals down to beat Barcelona, without the help from the stands.

I have fewer memories than my red mates who are around the same age, but I can still remember Bayern Munich, and I can still remember the noise. Our fans were heard by Picton Clock that night, which is a very long way for noise to travel, all the way from Goodison Pk.

So let’s forget about Anfield, let’s talk about our real home, Goodison Pk - what a fucking stadium, I hope the Old Lady gets to really rock a few more times, before we move on. Give us a few nights like Munich - let the kids who already know what it is to be an Evertonian, see Goodison in all its former glories, and let Ancelotti witness a stadium, that Alex Ferguson said, gave him a real introduction to how special European nights could be!

And we've stumbled from one false dawn to another ever since. But let's hope Carlo has put a stop to the 'Always the bridesmaid' crap that we've endured for decades.

People simply do not grasp the starting point from which Shankly began his transformation.

Wallowing for years in the second division the hapless oiks had to run a hosepipe from a house across the road to water the pitch. His immediate neighbours (us) were unassailable kings of the city and pre-eminent royalty within the English game. The mind blowing exploits of Dixie were less than a generation away.

What he did has no comparison he instilled a perpetual fire that still roars and his comments about Paisley might be cruel but devastatingly true - a monkey could successfully run what he (Shankly) left behind.

Clough was brilliant in a short term scintillating firework sort of way but always destined to crash and burn which he did at every club he managed.

I might add I hated Shankly but as I matured and gained perspective I began to realise his achievements from fuck all dwarfed anything before or since. Unpalatable as it is it really is irrefutable.

Plus the fact that in retirement he was fulsome in his praise for Everton, especially after his fall out with Liverpool, and with Everton allowing him access to Bellfield where he helped with the youngsters. He was at Goodison regularly and clearly enjoyed some banter in Goodison Road as he went to his turnstile.

A completely different animal to any manager they've had since.

Houlding is definitely one of those Marmite figures. He certainly gets a lot of stick from Evertonians who see him as the architect of Everton's demise by creating LFC - although it should be noted it took Liverpool long enough to overhaul Everton, and that we were probably recognised by most neutral observers as the premier club in the city for a good 70 years after his death!

The book is an attempt to put some flesh on the bones of a figure that loomed large over Liverpool football in its developmental stage; to chronicle Houlding's achievements both at EFC and then LFC, but also provide a warts an' all assessment of his actions and his character. I hope it'll be a decent addition to the very many excellent historical books and articles written about football on Merseyside.

It's a true story but as Tony suggests it had to be done players kept referring to him as "boss" and you can't have 2 kings in any organisation.

Must have been handled horrendously for him to become persona non grata at monkey island and set up camp here.

Still remember the standing ovation he got when he attended his first game as a visitor the difference in class between the 2 clubs was there for the whole world to see that day

Shankly didn't retire. He resigned and was persona non grata at Melwood and Anfield, from day one.

"It was never my intention to have a complete break with Liverpool, but at the same time, I wasn't going to put my nose in where it wasn't wanted. Maybe I was an embarrassment to some people.

"I might add that I count Everton amongst the clubs who have welcomed me over the last few seasons. I have been received more warmly by Everton than I have been by Liverpool. It is scandalous and outrageous that I should have to write these things about the club I helped to build into what it is today, because if the situation had been reversed, I would have invited people to games."