Thanks Rob,

Another great article. I can still recall this trip vividly and reading about it avidly in the Echo every night, after school, waiting for my Dad to bring it home.

I’d forgotten about all the sendings off, but recall Vernon being sent home.

One minor quibble. Isn’t that Frank Wignall standing between Alex Parker and Alex Young, rather than George Thomson, the handsomest man in the squad?

Hi Rob, another great contribution, I must confess that I don't recall the progression to the Dukla Prague fixtures, but what I do recall is the fact that some weird explanations to the Roy Vernon episode circulated the city of Liverpool. Even by Harry Catterick's standard the punishment seems a bit draconian, and would maybe lead some to suspect a more serious misdemeanour. Thanks again for your article, it makes an old man happy to revive pleasant/unpleasant memories.

Chris (1) That is definitely Frank Wignall. Another terrific article from Rob. Even at the time, it seemed strange that we committed so much of the summer to a tour in the USA. It could never happen now.

I can't wait to read the whole book, Rob!

Superb article, Rob. Loved the photos. A trip to Greenwich Village in the summer of 1961. Wonder if they ventured into any of the cafes and – without knowing at all at that point – witnessing a young Bob Dylan there who had shortly before arrived? Oh and was that broadcast of the game ever seen???

Chris W - thanks for flagging-up my caption error. This has now been corrected to show it as Frank Wignall with Alex x2.

Chris H - Wouldn't that have been a thing, if they had unwittingly watched a young Bob Dylan? As for the UK screening of the match - I have never heard it talked about so a lost gem, probably, unless someone like the 'Heavy Roller' on YouTube digs it out of the ether

Thanks to you all for the kind comments about the article

Chris,

That’s a great thought. Just going there at that time must have been magic. Billy Bingham, between sendings off, enjoying The Clancy Brothers maybe?

Incidentally Chris, I just read a Dylan book by Spencer Leigh, and you got a couple of very nice acknowledgements in it.

Good book too. Very quirky and personal.

Chris...

If what I have read on a different thread is correct, wouldn't Bingham have eschewed the music of the Clancy Brothers in favour of something more flute and drum based? 😀

Possibly Alan,

And Z-Cars wasn't our theme yet, but it was probably on the TV by then. He might have enjoyed The Parting Glass though...

Chris... apologies if I've raised this before. I know you know your music. But mentioning Dylan and the wonderful "Parting Glass"... isn't his song Restless Farewell very similar?

Alan,

Yes it is, musically at least. It’s actually surprising how many of his songs are influenced by other, often much older songs. Masters of War and Nottamun Town being one of the most obvious ones. Some of the songs might surprise you.

I say influenced and in Dylan’s case, I think that’s an appropriate word to use. It was an accepted thing in Folk and Blues that this was normal.

Unlike Jimmy Page for example, who was cynical and shameless, in songs like When The Levee Breaks, And with Black Mountainside and Bron y Aur Stomp, both traditional lifted from Bert Janch’s repertoire, but claimed as a Page composition Contrast that with Bert’s shrug and ‘How do you own a song?’ Attitude.

Hi Alan. (11).

Indeed you're correct. On arrival in the Village, Dylan immersed himself into the scene around him. Tommy Makem and The Clancy Brothers (in particular Liam) were a massive influence on him and no doubt he would have learned of the wonderful “Parting Glass” from them.

Likewise, his visit to England at the end of 1962 gave him the opportunity to learn a lot from the British folk scene and its traditions and he gleaned a lot from what he was exposed to – in particular from Martin Carthy. Best wishes. Chris

And of course Dylan & The Band go on to record “Johnny Todd” (Z Cars) and “The Auld Triangle” in the basement during the summer of 1967 in Woodstock.

Chris (12).

The story of Paul Simon and “Scarborough Fair” after Martin Carthy taught it him and then copywrited it shows another side of all those antics and attitudes.

Cheers guys. Love the Bert Jansch quote btw

And of course let's not forget Bob Marley used the Banana Splits theme on Buffalo Soldiers 😄

Yes Chris,

The US copyright laws have opened up a horrible can of worms haven’t they, over the years? And some people exploited them horribly too. There’s a decent argument that there’s no such thing as an original song.

An interesting bunch of people, Paul Simon.

Alan, I love The Banana Splits, and I hope they got their share of royalties!

And the Scarborough Fair lilt. Didnt Bob use that in his duet with Johnny Cash on " Girl from the North Country " ?

Alan,

Yes there are clear similarities between the songs, but that isn’t unusual in old traditional folk songs, or with old blues songs for that matter. They passed through many hands and versions, with different regional variations.

Everybody changed them a bit, and nobody laid claim to ownership.. that’s why Bert Jansch, Martin Carthy And co had the view they had about not being able to own songs. Martin Carthy and many other folk singers saw part of their job being the preservation of old songs, so they didn’t disappear. But he added his bit to it, like Scarborough Fair.

Dylan learned songs from Martin, Bert learned songs from Ann Briggs. Dylan learned songs from Woody Guthrie who took tunes from everybody but changed them with great lyrics. As did Bob Dylan.

I’ve just finished re-reading a book by Greil Marcus about Like A Rolling Stone. He describes the provenance of the melody of that song. But because of the amazing lyrics and the arrangement, nobody could deny it was Dylan’s song.

Interesting stuff Alan, and fascinating if you’re a bit of a geek like me.