Tosun is better than Rondon... fact!

Great to see Doucouré back, hopefully not too soon. He is incredibly important. Gray is clearly unfit, but hopefully he is fit enough to make an appearance off the bench,

Rondon was clearly going to play, there is no-one else. Hopefully he won't play the 90 and Simms will make an appearance (and for more than 70 seconds).

Iwobi is a sad state of affairs. Personally I would have gone with Delph and Allan with Doucouré pushing forward and Gordon and Townsend out wide. But Iwobi, I imagine in a No 10 type position that he believes is his best, it is. Hopefully he'll provide a shock (but not holding my breath).

Brentford are a fast and dynamic team. Toney and Mbemba are dangerous and I worry Keane will be caught out.

Brilliant

Fingers crossed we see the lesser confused Iwobi today. I expect Simms to get time.

Random one, but along with Craven Cottage, one of the most pleasant settings and surrounding areas for a football stadium. Sat on the banks of the Thames, the winter sun is shining and Everton are going to win.

It must have been assessed that Grey could play maybe 30 minutes, but not more. If that's the case then he is 'fit for the bench, but not fit to start'.

I'm not enfused witht he line-up, but to start blaming the manager (I'm in no way a pro-Benitez supporter btw) because of teh line-up is a bit absurd It's what we have.

Like I said above, personally I'd have played an extra centre mid ahead of Iwobi, but playing Iwobi is at least the 'more attacking' option. It's not like we've got massive quality being overlooked.

And Rondon hasn't started for a few games so its not true that Benitez has 'persisted' with him. He got dropped. But now both our senior strikers are out again. So Rondon it is.

'Iwobi' and 'aggression' in the same sentence?

Words fail me.

Yeh he stands real still
Yeh it angered Bill
And when he scores a goal
We'll love Rondondon, we'll love Rondon

See you on the other side.

If he's fit for 30 mins, it is clearly better to use him for the final 30 (or 20). The opposition will be more tired, rather than fresh. And we also only bring him on if needed, if were 2-0 up we can leave him off.

Iwobi probably included for his ability to break out given that the absence of Gray and Richarlison diminishes that aspect for us.

Probably all hinge on whether Doucouré is back at his best or looking rusty and off the pace. Will Gbamin ever get another start?

I got roped in to watch Wrexham yesterday with a few friends. It was the first football match I've enjoyed in a long time.

I can excuse our defensive boring football if there was heart and they were aggressive like we were under Moyes but even Wrexham had a game plan and identity on the pitch.

I can see some are wasted on here, perhaps management material?

Calvert-Lewin can take more time to model strange suits. Not needed whilst we have such a dynamic striker.

Laws are laws, but Brentford get a penalty from a non-goalscoring situation, and yet Everton are denied a penalty from a much clearer chance. Speed up our play and defend closer together, and we will get something out of this game, otherwise more despair.

Bottom three by Christmas the way Norwich are battling now...

A few times we played down the wing and the player in possession looked to the centre and there was nobody to centre it for so gave it back to whoever gave it to him. This then changed as the player who passed it to you got out of the way and it became just hack it into the centre regardless.

As for the penalty, well they give them for foot up, but for me the moment a player lowers his head beneath chest level then he is complicit in dangerous play but why no VAR for the shirt pull on Rondon.

Benitez must get some sort of organization and intent into them as at the moment it doesn't look like we came for more than a bore draw and the first thing he has to do is to tell Rondon he is playing centre forward and to take up that position and Iwobi to play on his shoulder.

And another display of awful refereeing.

Pathetic!

Hoping the fellow who dresses like the Monty Python lumberjack and can't strike the ball cleanly will return one day and magically solve all our ills.

He has to change tactics and drag Iwobi off, shouldn't be anywhere near starting even with our injuries.

Half a billion quid and we're worse than fucking Brentford... now that's a fucking achievement!! Time the whole board fucked off and took most of those gobshite players with them. Fuck off, Everton.

And the refereeing standard is as always... nothing surprising there!

Iwobi though... We've been so poor today. Utterly frustrating again. Wednesday will be a disaster.

Why didn't Rafa bring on one of the three strikers we had on the bench when Gray was flashing in cross after cross?

Clueless manager. Hapless players. Championship.

1) He inherited a mess.
2) It's the players' fault.
3) The Academy is not producing enough young players.
4) It's Brands, Kenwright, Moshiri, Koeman, Silva, Allardyce, Ancelotti...
5) He has no money.
6) He has injuries.
7) We were great for 20 mins against Burnley.

That was a complete shitshow and relegation form against a team that had not won for almost 2 months. It's Benitez's fault.

The manager takes the blame today for not throwing one of the strikers on, but do not even go there with trying to let Kenwright and the board off the hook – they have let us stagnate for over 20 years.

Rondon playing the whole game. Only that a crime in itself. Totally ineffective and offers no goal threat at all. Yes, Simms is young, but at least he has a nose for goal. He would definitely have got in position for that lethal Gray cross.

This manager is totally inept and way past it. I get it, they hired him to keep us in the top flight until the new stadium is built. But I have news for you! He is not gonna keep us in the division, he is gonna take us down.

Act now, useless men in charge!

Absolute joke of a club.

I'd have more respect if we brought on Tosun and still didn't score.

Iwobi is terrible, how he gets near the first team is beyond me.

I am generally worried Rafa's master plan is to get us relegated.

If we were a horse, we'd be glue.

Forwards not good enough to trouble Brentford who must be one of the poorest teams in the league.

To stand a chance against anybody, we need Calvert-Lewin, Richarlison and Gray playing as a front three. Sadly, until Calvert-Lewin is back, I can't see us winning any matches, Rondon doesn't remotely look like getting on the end of a cross anytime soon.

In the short term, Ellis Simms or the Brillo has got to be a better alternative.

Rondon was ok for 60-65 minutes, then he stopped moving. Iwobi was ineffectual, he was moved to different positions to try and eek something out of him, but ultimately, he's just not very good. Towsend was poor, gave away a silly penalty, and his crossing was poor. Neither of the full backs are offering much in an attacking sense. Doucoure was the plus point, but was not at his best. Gray was lively but untimately noone in the box to benefit. Gordon was ok, he's clearly been thrown in the deep end and not nearly the finished article, but he's one of the few players who plays with urgency and is direct.

We are in a pretty awful place at the moment. likely to get hammered on Wednesday, then another likely defeat against Arsenal. Then Palace, Chelsea and Leicester before Christmas

Things do not look good at all.

Benitez will not be sacked. Moshiri will give him the benefit of doubt due to injuries, and that he so stuck his neck out in hiring him.

On one attack the ball was knocked out to Rondon on the edge of their penalty area while there were four men in front of him on the 6 yard line, he's the bloody centre forward, leader of the line for heavens sake and he can't even keep up with play!

And we play Gordon wide left when it is bleedin' obvious he is right footed while Iwobi of all people plays an ineffectual wide right.

Yeah, right, this is the manager for us, BOLLOCKS!

I had hoped Benitez was a safe pair of hands but after today I think I was mistaken.

Now we are in a relegation battle and we haven’t any battlers.

Brentford is extremely ordinary and three points were on offer if Everton had done more with the ball in the last third. I too thought the penalty was ridiculous because it won't be given on Wednesday if VVD does something similar to Richarlison for example.

I really didn't care how we played today, but it was imperative we left London with something on the board, we didn't and now it's a hard slog of games to come. On the positive side of things, Doucoure was excellent and Gordon also carried out his tasks well, but the Iwobi, Rondon axis won't ever work and I was aghast that Townsend was hooked instead of either of the toothless twins.

I also wish that the Everton board hadn't made such a fuss about the possibility of a European league as I think the officials aren't being fair with Everton on the pitch, as game after game the fouls we give away are punished often and the opponents seem to get more than a degree of latitude. For example, why wasn't the Spanish player given a second yellow card for his foul on Digne? Where was VAR for the tug of Rondon's shirt in the penalty area?

Sorry but relegation positions threaten, playing this turgid type of football! God only knows what Wednesday will turn out to produce!

Absolute shite but then again starting with Iwobi and Rondon plus the lightweight Gordon gives us little to be optimistic about even before we start.

Here's a piece I received earlier today from a Redshite mate from my schooldays who continually takes the piss out of me.

"Sunday comes with Rafa's bums, Iwobi right but knows he's shite. Rondon's in and it's a sin with Keane at the back who can't trap a sack. Gordon tries and that's no surprise but, lo and behold, it's Rafa's demise"

Pretty much sums up another crap weekend.

Brentford are terrible and we couldn't brush them aside. Even when Gray delivered, the rest couldn't get in the box... Rondon played the whole game and was shattered after the hour.

Rafa has to take the blame, as would any manager of such an awful, inept display in a game that we needed to win.

Townsend tried to remove the lad's head, a total prick. And our players were meek and mild when the defender tried to undress Rondon and the big buffoon just smiles!

All of our little mistakes, poor touches, heavy passes, passes behind, slips, etc all undo any constructive work.

After this I think Rafa has to go – he clearly hasn't got a clue. The whole mindset is wrong. He looks like he is going to have a massive stroke and now, a spanking from his old mates on Wednesday will have Goodison baying for his blood.

We knew it could go wrong for him once results dipped and now Moshiri will see what the crowd think of his latest clown.

How could Unsworth and Dunc do any worse?

Something or someone needs to happen, or step in soon. We should be very afraid!

So it's Rafa's fault, Silva's fault... Koeman, Martinez, Moyes – absolutely nothing to do with a board that settle for second best, happy to be mid-table, sell off our best players, sell off Finch Farm, lie about the ring-fenced money.

Whoever comes in next will end up the same way, and the next, until we get those at board level out of our club.

Benitez has quite rightly got to take the blame today, shocking not bringing one of the strikers off the bench, but he cannot be accountable for our stagnation for over 20 years. Whoever comes in next will fall on his sword as well, until we have a clear out at top level and Finch Farm; the club is rotten to the core.

However you simply cannot ignore the fact that he continues to pick the useless Iwobi and Rondon without giving the younger players, or even Tosun a chance.

A blind man can see that Rondon simply cannot read the game and get into the right positions. I was all for giving Benitez a chance and, up to today, I did not want him sacked... but this pig-headed ignorance has me now hoping he gets the boot.

Rafa could be out by Xmas. If so, let Dunc take over.

This is the matchday thread.. about, er.. the match. The match managed by a clueless defensive dinosaur of a manager.

Nobody can eradicate the mistakes of the past but they can alter the trajectory of the future, if they take the right action in the here and now, if they don't they just compound whatever mistakes have been made in the past.

Need a finger in the dyke and not an orchestra playing on deck while we are taking on water.

Couldn't run a piss-up in a brewery between you.

Club is a shambles but you lot wouldn't be to blame, would you!!

Keeping low profiles, as is always the case when the shit hits the fan, shows you are a bunch of cowards, much the same as some of the players that you have sanctioned to sign.

Never been ashamed to be an Evertonian for 62 years but sadly I am now.

I don't think we'll get beat 5-0 on Wednesday. Not if Benitez plays two defensive midfielders in front of the 8-man defence.

Looking at the fixtures, only Palace looks winnable and that, based on what we saw today, is optimistic. We might totally disintegrate before the year is out. We need 40 points somehow but the players look disinterested at best, with the odd exception. Hopefully it will be less than 40 this season.

Enough is enough, is he having a laugh? Put Dunc in temporary charge for Wednesday night, a bit of pride needed, or do we want Benitez to start Rondon & Iwobi again?

Rebuild, get the core fans' passion back and not have to watch shysters who believe they are Premier League players.

Stupid, even crazy thought I know, but anything at the moment seems better than our endless false dawns and soul-destroying crash-and-burns.

We need pace and ambition up front, and sadly Rondon does not show any. Iwobi showed some decent touches but he doesn't scare anybody and very rarely do any of his cute flicks or passes lead to anything meaningful.

Sad to say it but Anthony Gordon was the square root of useless today. He kept getting into good crossing positions, turning back inside, running across the box and got dispossessed leading to a Brentford break. And the moment when we had a chance to break and he passed the ball 5 yards straight out instead of to Gray – who had half a pitch of space to run into... that was unforgivable.

I thought Allan and Doucouré controlled midfield fairly well, and Keane and Godfrey won a lot of challenges against Toney and Mbuemo. Digne and Coleman need to be more direct in getting balls into the box, but sadly Gordon, Townsend (who had his worst game for us thus far), and Iwobi were slow to ever really get into the box – so I can understand why crossing to an isolated and static Rondon was not much of an option.

Whoever plays in an attacking position for us needs to do more – more movement, more ambition, more energy. And outside the box, we're too slow, too many touches, too predictable, and too afraid to take risks. It's a tough watch, but we've been worse on many many occasions over the last six or so seasons.

If we get relegated, we will probably go bankrupt and get shut down like Bury, so no more Everton. Actually, silver lining?

“We were fine. We did what we had to do push, push. We had 14 shots away from home but it’s difficult cause they had a lot of bodies.”

So we were unlucky? WTF

Would rather the team went down fighting than the defensive nonsense Benitez brings. Imagine if Rodriguez had stayed? The fact that Benitez doesn't know how to use him speaks volumes.

Was willing to give him the benefit of any doubt, but the doubt was based on his ability in the modern era not on any prejudice against his former employers. We'd be better with Pulis, imagine that?

The Brentford fans around us (me and my dad got tickets in the home stand) were laughing at Iwobi before kickoff and throughout the match and we had some banter about just how shit he is.

I'm completely disillusioned with this team and think we will be in the bottom 3 by Christmas, it will take a miracle to stop us being on the receiving end of what may prove to be a truly humiliating pasting on Wednesday. I don't think I can bring myself to watch it, but probably will as I'm a sucker for it like most of us.

Single malt here I come!

Coleman was poor, Godfrey was rash, Rondon improving 100% still wasn’t enough, whilst Iwobi, was Iwobi, and I personally think Gordon’s lack of bravery in possession, might have played him out of Wednesday night’s game.

Benitez hasn’t done himself any favours, by not putting on a second forward, but it’s clear he’s inherited a mentally weak squad, who just don’t have enough belief, bravery or quality, when you take away the better players.

Stubbornness is a great characteristic when you're proved right. I can only think he keeps playing Rondon & Iwobi for a bet.

Benitez is lucky that his current ineptitude is left standing by that of the club management.

He keeps on selecting teams and gameplans that the supporters can see won't work, then stands in mute amazement when they go to pot. It was particularly inspired of him to take off Townsend and leave Iwobi/Rondon on the pitch, then to watch as Gray put great crosses into the six yard area while his three forwards sat on the bench.

Poor performance by a team lacking in quality and confidence against a poor team.

They didn't bother us but neither did we bother them. A passive match, that aside from the penalty would have been 0-0. I'll need to watch back as I didnt see it in the moment, but my brother told me it was a blatant penalty.

There's not a lot to say. I had fans in my ear all match screaming to "get it forward". I get that, but when I looked, I didn't see options, so I'm sure the players didn't either. You need movement and runners ahead of you to play forward or it's an aimless punt that gives possession back to the other team.

Gray offered an outlet when he came on. Two balls in particular just needed a tap in, but again, no one on the end of it. No movement.

Once again, kudos to the amazing travelling support. Immense as always. But they absolutely gave the team both barrels at the end. No hiding place. We said in the summer this appointment could go toxic early. Well it felt like that at the end today with the FSW chant echoing from the Everton masses.

3 points on Wednesday should heal the wounds of today. Off home to hold council with the dogs and sort this out.

Not a good look for Weds.

I didn't want Benitez but don't blame him for how poor our 'squad' is. But 1 sub when you're chasing a game for all that time? Totally baffling. I just want Wed to be over.

Something changed today with the fans. The dam is broken. Anti Board banner at the game. Angry fans on here and social media. Patience has run out. It's over.

I hold to my view that we must sit tight. These are depressing times, no question, but the reasons are many and complex and a big part of the solution is not to panic.

None of that is to ignore Benitez's mistakes which are there to be seen.

Doucoure coming back is a serious plus. Our lack of firepower without DCL was a problem waiting to happen and the botch with Kean and the failure ever to replace Lukaku are now coming back to haunt us.

Again, hold your nerve.

We won't get relegated. It's just that... we're not very good.

Whether he is there in the directors box or not, that fella should be held accountable, and not slithering away conveniently in Monaco.

Time for this board to know enough is enough, sack those that constitute those on this board.

The result of sticking with a manager for 11 years (winning nothing), making us think winning no silverware but being happy to be "The Peoples Club" living in the 60's. Combined 90 million on Sigurdsson, Keane and Pickford. A Chief Executive who doesn't even talk about the football club, all the ex playesrs on the coaching staff. A disgrace it is, shamblolic and pitiful - Bill Kenwrights legacy will be relegation, not the stadium, and it will be for a championship club (ask Sunderland fans).

It's too late now, but the appointment we needed was a young progressive manager (IMO) like Lampard or Scott Parker

We had lots of crosses but into a packed box often with only one Everton player. We needed to be braver and get more players into the box.

I see us having a go, some positive play without a finisher, link-up play or trickery to finish and score.

A few other players back will change that. Stay positive, sports fans. My Santa letter is in the post.

The two centre-backs, Keane & Godfrey done okay, but as I said previous, they didn't have a lot to do or be worried about.

The midfield 2 were okay, they just didn't have many options in front of them.

Young Gordon needs to grow a pair. So far, I'm seeing a player who is okay if it's going well, but he quite frankly bottled a few challenges and pulled out. To use the Scouse vernacular you would use the phrase shithouse. Harsh, but that's what I saw.

He's young, he's developing, but just an observation.

Rondon? Why? Surely just stubbornness?

I've just spent a very unpleasant 33 minutes on the cross trainer trying to get that game out of my system.

I am about to join you in your wish for snow. Everyone in their way. I am currently kneeling for twenty minutes in front of the entrails of two large chickens.

Nobody seems to be able to kick the ball cleanly even when they are under no pressure.

If you told me I was watching an over-50s side, I'd still be alarmed at how slow they were.

Wednesday could easily be a repeat of November 1982, with or without an early sending-off.

But we should stick with Rafa.

Most of the players have no affinity with Everton and the lack of any fight or commitment to really go and get a result in winnable games like today’s is galling to every Everton fan and more so to the away fans who attend in their thousands every match and who would give blood and guts in Everton’s cause.

Going by some reports getting posted back from some fans the players looked shocked and didn’t know how to react when they were told were to go along with the board, maybe there will be a reaction from within the club and not with words we have all heard before, but some fuckin’ action.

Give the job to Duncan? Don't make me laugh. The man who has stood shoulder to shoulder with our last half a dozen managers. The man who takes training and plays 5 and in and games like last man standing.

Try practicing defending corners and set plays. Give the job to Dunc, you may as well give it to me. He's just in a groove, sat smoking his pipe.

We need to give Benitez some funds and then start making knee-jerk decisions when it continues to be a cluster. He'll turn it around with some fresh blood. Let's not panic, people.

Justin, I agree there was more effort in the second half but we simply had no goalscorer on the pitch, or anyone that can hold the ball there. The players did step it up but to no avail.

It looks to me like the midfield and defenders have been instructed in slow & sideways, with no comfort or intent to move the ball forward anywhere than the wings. Then we cross (of which there were many today) to nobody.

As for replacing Townsend (Barring injury)...

Financial (un) Fair Play (the most obviously misnamed scheme to allow those at the top to stay there by squashing investment in those that want to break the glass ceiling) has really hampered us but you don't overcome that by unwrapping a mummy and hoping it can still be a pharaoh.

Innovative thinking might work and let's not forget, last year we were excited by this squad, most of whom are still here.

I can see the Duncan gang creeping back into play. A bit of short term fist pumping and ball boy hugging won't sort this lot out longer term once the adrenalin runs out. Probably after 3 games.

I almost want us to get that out of our system. Let's do it. But Duncan hardly fits the young hungry manager bill. If you want a 50 year old passionate Evertonian who has never managed a football club, appoint me!!

A couple of days to lick wounds, take advice from the dogs and take 3 points from the Devil incarnate on Wednesday.

Justin, I also saw some positives today. Look at the shots and possession we had. Rondon had a much better game and got himself involved. Iwobi... where to start with him?? He just needs to go, I'm done. Why only 1 sub today I can't get my head around. The only thing I can think is that Beneathus wanted to get more minutes into Rondon and Doucoures legs. Surprised we didn't see another attacker or Delph.

On to Wednesday. We have Gray back, Douc back, Richy back. I'd be playing Delph behind Allan and Doucoure with Gray and Townsend either side of Richarlison. That does of course create a problem if Richy doesn't stay at his post and the ball keeps coming back but it gives us a shot.

We need a WIN. If we sack the FSW that could well be our transfer window money spent. We can't afford it. I'm thinking with DCL back soon he needs another winger and erm, a RIGHT BACK. We also need to find a way to give minutes to Simms and Branthwaite. They really need to go out on loan.

That's the main issue with this group of players and has been for ages, they honestly will believe that they gave it their best shot today and but for a couple of decisions not going their way, they did enough to take home the points.

Whereas, most Evertonians would have realised very early on today that Everton was not going to win and would probably lose a game that was there for the taking.

The team as a whole was not as bad today as they have been on other occasions this season, but they were nowhere near good enough to cause Brentford problems either. I'm just hoping that the curse of a soon-to-be-relegated team beating Everton continues this season because if Brentford stays up there is a good chance that Everton doesn't.

Some need a good kicking including Digne who is one of the many weak links, a shadow of the player we signed three years ago. Some like Seamus are clearly past it. Others like Gordon will never make it at this level.

A good striker can mask a host of weaknesses as was the case when we had Lukaku. Unless or until DCL returns or we sign a striker worthy of that description in January we look destined to lose the vast majority of matches. That spells real trouble in the form of relegation.

Make no mistake this debacle was started years ago Benitez is just the unfortunate patsy

Oddly I think if Bill had the Mosh money we wouldn’t have had half the madness that seems to have seen us off. Being a football man all his life he knows at least as much as most of us whereas Mosh is beyond clueless his naive mistakes are beyond parody.

When we slip out of the prem it won’t be as newsworthy as the Wimbledon era with press globally interested; beyond L4 I doubt an eyebrow will be raised such has been the longevity of decline. It might be better if last day dramas are avoided all together at least an early drop will focus thoughts for the summer.

An animal in this state would have been put down years ago.

Brentford didn't trouble us at any point besides the stupid pen. We knocked the ball around pretty easily even if it is too slow.

The lack of quality up front is obvious. Can anyone name a worse attacking pair than Rondon and Iwobi? Both of them are shite but Benitez keeps picking them!

There is no place for passengers in the prem but our manager insists on playing 2 of them every week.

A thumping at Arsenal and he could be gone.

I know I’m only repeating comments made above, but how can any manager, anywhere, at any level of football, not make attacking substitutions in the circumstances we were in during the last 20 minutes?

Respect to those who travelled today.

The more I hear from the manager, the more I think that he believed that Everton FC was a small club.

Incidentally, I hear that they have just beaten or equaled Sunderland's record from 1927 of having scored 2 goals or more in the longest run of games. Anyone for a cherry on the icing?

Don't remember ever being this dispirited.

"Cannot fault the players, commitment, intensity etc... Is there to see we are just disappointed with the result"

What game is he watching and once again players seemed to have got away with it. Rafa seems to be going the same way as previous managers.

I agree with Bolaise on Twitter – why on earth take Simms or Dobbin if you don't play them, especially 1-0 down? Very very poor management.

I'm starting to think other people are right and older managers are just taking a last payday.

We never seem to have a second team on the bench to contend with injuries and, when money has been available, we can only buy second-hand players and second-hand managers. The ones we would like to have won't join Everton has we lack something and yet we should be up there with the best.

There was some hope when Ancelotti arrived; however, he was used to having multi-million pound teams go out on to the pitch and play without concern. Everton are not like that – they need a kick up the backside.

Iwobi is a total disgrace to watch, along with a few others, and they do not believe in wearing the shirt and playing for 90 minutes. If we keep losing this way, we will be fighting for survival and no good thinking about a new ground.

Whatever anyone says, I saw Moyes at Goodison on the day we played West Ham some weeks back (another defeat) and to see what he has done with a team costing £69 million... shame on Everton.

Come On, Blues – wake up and smell the coffee, we have one hell of a fan base; play the game and start winning.

As for Benitez, is he trying to be a cock or what? You manage Everton, pal, start giving us a chance of winning games by putting offensive players on when we are losing, or leave please. Don't try and be clever, lad, we all know how close to the wind you are sailing anyways.

Now fill Goodison with a protest against the board on Wednesday night, but give the team absolute support. We are going to get smashed by the way, so the board are gonna get it big time.

I must admit I have been defending the Fat Waiter all season but his inaction today in terms of substitutions was just indefensible.

Yes, he has been hit with terrible injuries but not bringing on fresh legs with 15 minutes to go is just mind-blowing.

I don't think Iwobi or Rondon should be anywhere near the first team and both are just so ponderous. What we need was some youth running in to channels which we just did not have. So, when Gray was able to get the ball into the box, nobody was there.

If Simms had been on the pitch, I am sure he would have at least kept up with play and been in a better position.

I am losing patience with Benitez and, if he cannot be a little more bold in terms of ridding the team of both Rondon and Iwobi, then he may be gone by Christmas!!

Forget what wage James might have been on. Today perfectly illustrated his value. Not one inventive through-ball played throughout the 90 minutes.

Okay, there is a view that he'd never be fit enough to warrant regular starts, but coming on as a sub for half an hour or so against an opposition as bad as Brentford would surely have produced greater incision in the final third.

What value would you put on him rescuing one point today if, come mid-May, a single point divides us from survival?

A lifetime of supporting Everton has left me broken and without hope.

Maybe that's why we have managers who are so reluctant to give the younger players a go; they know that, after one or two quiet games, they will be labelled not good enough and Championship standard. No wonder Small wanted out, who'd be a young player at our club?

If only Moshiri could sack Kenwright, Brands, and Baxendale!

The club is rotten and will stay a laughing stock until we get clear leadership at board level, and seeing there hasn't been any since before the dying days of John Moores, what hope do we really have here?!

Injuries have killed any basis of consistency to build on a good start. He's not a miracle worker, and to be honest, I've already resigned to writing this season off and hoping we can improve in the summer and try and find a way of not losing so many key players to injury as other clubs have done.

Unless there's someone out there any better, stick with him until next season and see how we're doing in a year from now.

You must be joking, right? With this bunch under this manager, we are on a hiding to nothing.

We haven't got any threat up top, we move the ball too slowly, we haven't got any aggression or heart. No guile, no guts, no clue.

Roll on Wednesday!

Spot on, mate, expect a sudden rush for the injury room as some of those shithouse players looked truly shocked at the fans' reaction.

I also expect someone to get sent off on Wednesday night, not from commitment to the shirt but as a 3 game ban is a way out of the wrath that is building from the fans.

I'm a bit surprised that Anthony Gordon has taken so much stick on here and elsewhere. I thought he did fine for most of the match. He wasn't any worse than many others today and was better than some. At least he showed some energy, which few other players did today.

The kid is still learning the game and people expecting too much from him this early in his career will destroy him. If he proves to be as bad as the experienced Rondon in the longer term, then he won't make it.

I still think there is a young player to be nurtured who will get better the more he plays, similar to what Dominic has done at Everton.

Please tell me what pub you are going into before the game? I will gladly buy you a pint and shake your hand for uplifting me for a short while – good post, mate.

Never! I'll never accept anything other than wanting and trying to be the best in the land and not just results but results with style.

We are, we are Everton.

That's partly why I'm concerned about Simms being thrown in now. The side is very poor and he's a notoriously slow starter each time he takes a step up. There's a good chance that he'd be ruined by the experience before he acclimatises.

Who knows, maybe the risk is now worth taking but these young players need support. Gordon is worth persevering with.

James was lovely to watch at times but not often enough. The lack of creativity in midfield is because we haven't found the right player over many seasons.

Sacking Rafa, then what? Again, same old, Sam or David have to be contacted!! This squad is not good enough for a top manager to win trophies.

Relegation could be a good thing? No! This club may never return to the top flight for decades!

Remember we had Sam and he wasn't good enough? Actually he was because the players we have. Sadly fans think this once great club are too big for such managers: we are not.

The past 30 years has been to sell our best players. You can't get lucky for ever, it catches up with you.

This squad is very average, mid-table at best. Anything more is a bonus! If our current manager goes? Who? This squad has limitations on quality and depth. No money to change it with real quality.

The choice is simple: stay with Rafa or get a manager who can try and keep us in the Premier League and get positive results. The same old same old at this club. The billionaire was meant to be our saviour, could be the one that sees this club drop of a cliff.

Better days are ahead!!!

Never thought I'd say it but Moyes was a proper manager who knew how to handle Kenwright, as he is proving with the porn merchants in London.

Have you ever watched Simms play? Being up with play and alive and on the end of crosses is not really a big strength to his game, and as for his heading – well for a big lad he seems almost afraid of the ball at times.

We're in enough trouble as it is without suggesting that the answer so obviously lies in our youth team players. There's no finesse to that argument – it's just wishful thinking. I think some people saw the goal tally Simms knocked up in the Under-18s a couple of years back and are expecting some world-beater. If so, then you're going to be disappointed as and when he does get minutes.

Players brought in on a free, are better than we had, with the exception of the lizard [Rondon]. Lizard??, only his eyes move.

Injuries, money wasted by previous managers, nothing through the academy. Disappointed in Gordon. Come on, for fuck's sake.

That doesn't excuse not trying something different with say Tosun and/or Delph though. Doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome is a sign of madness is it not?

Rafa needs to come up with something special for Wednesday. Either that or rig the players Covid tests such that they all show up positive Wednesday am.

What do you mean: "putting the game to one side"?

Myself and any others who were disappointed with Gordon this afternoon have done so precisely because of his performance today. He was poor, and was a liability. He posed no real attacking threat and repeatedly gave the ball away in bad areas. Iwobi was much much better than him today. Today.

Gordon has taken a while to prove himself at Premier League level, and has been improving this season. But today was a massive set-back, and I'll be interested to see how he responds. He is talented, but you need high levels of confidence and bravery to succeed as an attacking player at this level and he's yet to consistently show the world that he has what it takes.

He hid today, and I don't like to see that from a player who I was hoping would be able to provide much of our attacking threat.

Have we thought about working on set-pieces so we can get a few goals rather than whipping in aimless corners? We lack quality but surely some drills could improve us?

Anyway, the obvious... this derby is gonna go one of two ways: a scrappy win for one or the other, or an absolute massacre and piss-take for them.

I fear the latter.

However, even more kudos for letting them have it in spades at the end of yet another diabolical performance. Easy Street is well and truly over.

I can see a storming of the Directors Box if Liverpool do what they've been doing all season at Goodison on Wednesday. A hammering and Moshiri, Kenwright and Brands will be running for cover – if they turn up.

The genial Evertonians' patience has finally run out – and about bloody time too. Only the Best is Good Enough!! It's not writ large for effect on the jersey – it means something to us long-suffering fans. It's about time it meant something to those who play and those in charge.

One word along the lines of: "We will be giving blood sweat and tears on Wednesday" from any of the players and I'll scream.

That would fulfill Kenwright's dream of the family club. We could ground-share with Tranmere and have Tom Davies's mum make the sandwiches and slice the oranges at halftime.

Get The Bootleg Beatles in for the half-time show for the Tranmere derby where we raffle off a six-pack of beers autographed by Jose Baxter.

At the end, it was toxic, with some clapping but lots of dog's abuse directed towards the few players who ventured within 30 metres of the away fans.

Lots of talk of the club being rotten and Unsworth being a problem as well as the hierarchy. The natives are not happy.

You can always blame Gordon, but he's probably on a tenth of some of his teammates so is an easy mark. In reality, if some of these superstars had put in half the kid's effort, we'd have pissed a victory today!

From then on, the only issue was how long the nine men would hold out. Fortunately for the useless Brentford, they were also able to call on their 12th man fatty John Moss to great effect and secure the points in the 24th minute.

I'm not even watching on Wednesday if either Iwobi or Rondon start – I've seen all I can stomach and enough's enough.

The only issue on Wednesday will be whether Klopp plays his kids or not. Even then, a big RS win is all but guaranteed. If they decide to punish us, then a record-breaking Premier League scoreline is a distinct possibility.

Well done to our away supporters for letting their feelings be known at the end. A lot more of that on Wednesday, please.

The quality of this game was shocking. Brentford looked like a Championship side and were lucky. We were better than them but in the end we just couldn't create enough.

There's no progress here, there's neither joy nor hope it seems. It really is a tough time to be an Evertonian.

So, it moves on to Wednesday, Goodison under lights, vociferous crowd, no better stage for a change in fortunes, right?

This man, in my opinion, is truly delusional and a genuine cause for concern. I suppose the same could be said for the majority of the team.

I will be honest and say I was not happy with his appointment, but thought initially give him a chance. Well, not any more.

Barry Rathbone has been on here as long as I have and I can remember the days when we were not weighed down by cynicism but just a but disappointed.

That team today stink of relegation, they ooze timidity, fear and cowardice. No MotD2 for me tonight. What will they be doing? Will they be hurt? Embarrassed? Shamed? I suspect not.

I believe when they face Liverpool that every one of them, including the coach, will settle for a 1-0 defeat. Shit is what it is, relentlessly piled onto us by a group who can't even pretend to care and for whom playing for Everton is a well paid job.

I'm sorry but I didn't see the effort. I like Gordon, and I want him to succeed, but today he was weak and guileless and the Brentford defenders dispossessed him with ease. It's not about age, or wages, or the future – it's about the fact that today he was poor.

Yes, others were not good enough either, but Gordon disappointed me most today – which is why I have written what I have written. Hopefully Gordon will acknowledge his own poor performance today and bounce back next time with his best. But today we saw nothing from him that was anywhere near his best.

He is showing very little bravery in his insistence on asking his team to play such cautious football (for it must be on his instructions that our play is so passive, so slow in the build-up, with no aggression or runners taking a risk).

He is showing no bravery either in not putting another striker on with 15 minutes to go, because Rondon clearly wasn't getting into the right positions. What about Cenk Tosun? He's good in the air, quicker than Rondon, and surely must be desperate to show what he can do?

This situation is not primarily the manager's fault but, with each successive game, he is showing how *not* to make the best of the little he has.

He and the coach are done, past it, yesterday's men, shamelessly stealing a living from a band of fools.

My biggest concern today was the first half, because Everton just didn't look like they had a defensive understanding, but this improved after the break, and will be the key, if we are to get anything out of the Liverpool game.

4-5-1, defend as a unit, close the spaces and look to hit Liverpool down the sides, exposing the space left by their fullbacks, plus it'll be the first time I've been to a night match at Goodison for a couple of years, so hopefully we can turn our anger on the other set of bastards from across Stanley Park.

Thanks for the offer, Brian, but I'm hopefully saving my drinking until after the game, mate!

Today was an opportunity to give Tosun a run and show what he could do, even if it was for only 20 minutes. But I can't see how he can be match fit so it's another definite start for Rondon.

Wonder if St Virgil is losing sleep at the prospect of facing Rondon?

I don't yet believe we will be in relegation danger as Calvert-Lewin, Mina and Richarlison plus a fitter Gray and Doucouré will add enough to keep us around mid-table by the end of the season. But it may well get worse before it gets better.

If we are 16th-17th by Christmas, then Rafa will be under lots of pressure — and rightly so.

Contrast to how we play: slow and pedestrian; it seems our one method of attack is to get the ball out wide and get a cross in and hope someone is there.

We played against a very poor Brentford team, who let us dominate large parts of the game, yet our inability to open them up to create any meaningful chances shows how poor we are.

I have said changing managers as regular as we do doesn't help but, assuming we lose to Liverpool on Wednesday and fail to beat Arsenal after that, at what point should Moshiri consider pulling the plug? You can't keep losing games in this league and expect to keep your job.

Long-term injuries to Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison haven't helped and, with Mina also missing for many games, it's made the job a lot harder for Benitez than it might have been.

I was just thinking: isn't it ironic that the only centre-forward Moshiri has seen us buy is Rondon, given we have spent £450 million on players during his spell in charge of the club!

Also, I haven't noticed much of a difference in style of play during the tenure of Koeman, Silva, Ancelotti or Benitez.

Let's hope Newcastle, Leeds, Burnley and Norwich continue to get beaten.

Rondon, Iwobi, Keane, Coleman, Godfrey, Townsend, Gordon, Davies, Allan, Tosun.

We've never been so far off them in 50 years of support and it's heartbreaking.

The club is rotten. Name one player in the past 5 years who has improved since coming to this circus. There are plenty who have regressed or stagnated whether young or old.

The manager doesn't matter, the whole club is a joke.

Lewis Hamilton won't win in Haas.

Never felt so disconnected with Everton. It's gotten to the stage where I am beginning to hate the club, how sad after 50 years of support.

They can stick the brave new world of a new ground where the sun don't shine if we have to watch the shit we currently endure.

Odds on being relegated the same season that the ground comes on line? How do very Everton would that be?

Disillusioned.

Surely can't be any worse then what we've witnessed today?

I think that Wayne has had more than enough Rolls in his life, edible ones and otherwise. :)

Seriously, anything which would help the team is most welcome.

Should have thrown Simms or Tosun up front with Rondon in the second half. One-up-front tactics won't win many games.

I've noticed that guy seems more involved with the manager than does Ferguson, but that's only from the TV point of view, so it may not be a true reflection. I assume that it's either Paco de Miguel or Antonio Gomez.

What game were you watching... and in what universe?

Rondon was slow, static, always a yard behind the play. From my seat, he missed a couple of passable chances. He didn't, that I recall, win a single header outside the box or hold the ball up to any great effect.

I know the rest of them weren't great, but our best player — do me a favour.

I've got no idea if your assassination of Gordon is some kind of perverted support for the Fat Kopite in charge, but today he was the least of our problems. The lad's not Messi, but he had a better game than established “pros” like Coleman, Iwobi, Townsend and Rondon.

Is it cos he's a local kid? Missing Tom to throw shit at?

Like most, I wasn't in favour of Benitez's appointment but he made a fist of it with cheap-as-chips signings and a full squad. The thin-as-tissue-paper squad is being exposed with injuries and, for the life of me, I don't see what anyone can do about it.

Senior players seeing another manager get the boot will keep their heads down, pick up their wages, and go through the motions amidst eye-rolling at yet another change.

The words "won't last a year" will be our new motto as Calvert-Lewin, Digne, Richarlison, Pickford and the rest beg agents to get them out of this madhouse. Let the dice roll with Benitez; another manager change is far more dangerous.

But having stood (no sitting in the away end) in the stadium this afternoon, no way was Rondon anywhere near our best player. He was static and awful. How the manager kept him on for 90 minutes is beyond me.

Our best player, in my opinion, was Pickford. And he had little to do.

I often disagree with you, but you are right about Rondon. It's just too easy to blame him today. He has been embarrassingly poor up to now, but today he was no worse than most. He nearly scored and should have had a penalty.

It was criminal not to use the sub strikers at any point, but would starting one of them have changed the result? For me, Iwobi needed to come off. In the absence of much competition, he maybe earned a start after putting some effort in against Man City, but he offered nothing today.

Again though, in all honesty, we're all arguing over who is the least shit. How did it come to this?

The wafer-thin squad is the main cause for concern, and Pep, Klopp or the Archangel Gabriel would be hard pressed to get a tune out of this squad.

I can't add anything that's already been posted, so I'll go on a different rant.

Surely there's got to be a way to complain officially about the officials? Why Is Jon Moss allowed to let the blatant penalty against Rondon go unpunished, without any censure whatsoever?

He is the worst ref I've ever seen, and the bar isn't that high, plus he gives us nothing. As soon as I heard he was the VAR, I knew it wouldn't end well.

It's about time the club stopped being gentlemen and women.

At least Alan Kelly gets to play with the iPad on the odd occasion we do make a sub.

Football matters – whether academy, transfers, players wages etc – to me, fall on only two people and that is Brands and Kenwright.

Our owner needs to get a grip. Even if decisions have been taken out of Brands's hands, then make a fuss about it, show the owner what you think is wrong.

I won't blame Rafa entirely but please don't tell me we gave everything on the pitch. With all the money spent, Brands needs to head for the exit door, as do the people running our Academy.

Liverpool will batter us on Wednesday.

So…I guess I've no comments on the latest Everton match.

No, we haven't been relegated in my lifetime... yet, but in every division there are prizes winnable to three teams (four in the Premier League). Four divisions means thirteen prizes per season, excluding cups. 25 seasons of Kenwright means 325 prizes for winners' league positions have been shared between 90 other clubs, but not us, nor a cup, nor any hope.

That's some record that – play it again, Moshiri. Not!

Difficult to pick out a good performance from that. We gifted that to Brentford because, penalty aside, we were never in danger. But then we rarely put them in danger either.

Having been an Osman and Hibbert advocate, I'm not one for slating the local lads. If anything, I'm the opposite. But on more than one occasion today, I saw Gordon bottle it or not have the desire. He pulled out and didn't fancy it. Many more wiser people than me who have watched him through his development have questioned this; I saw it today.

Good player, plenty of ability. I just question the work rate. But I also want to be proven wrong.

1 Jordan Pickford
2 Mason Holgate
5 Michael Keane
12 Lucas Digne
13 Yerry Mina
19 Djibril Sidibé 35'
10 Gylfi Sigurðsson
26 Tom Davies yellow 67' 72'
7 Richarlison yellow 31'
9 Dominic Calvert-Lewin 60'
17 Alex Iwobi

Substitutes:

18 Morgan Schneiderlin 72'
20 Bernard 35'
27 Moise Kean 60'
49 Jonas Lössl
3 Leighton Baines
11 Theo Walcott
14 Cenk Tosun

Pickford: he's the least of our problems right now, I'd say.

Coleman: big heart, but lacking everything else right now.

Digne: probably playing the worst football of his Everton career.

Keane: dreadful first half, I saw him telling someone to get tight, 5 minutes before he gave Toney the freedom of the pitch, and was thankfully bailed out by Doucouré, although there was a big improvement in the second half.

Godfrey: aggressive, but didn't show much defensive nouse, although I'm certain he's not being helped by his partner.

Allan: some decent things, although I don't think he's got the legs required to play in the middle of the park.

Doucouré: not the best footballer, but he's strong, and also has a great engine, which helps him get involved at both ends of the pitch.

Iwobi: simply lacks the heart to be an Everton player.

Townsend: has a certain standard in effort and application, even when not playing well.

Gordon: I read he dreams of scoring for Everton, but does he have enough desire or belief in himself to go and make this happen?

Rondon: came in over a stone overweight and was dreadful, improved 100% today, and could have scored a couple. Still not good enough, but 33-year-old free transfers rarely are.

Gray: lively, and looked a threat, but plays for a team that doesn't really commit that many players forward.

We are only really missing Mina, Richarlison, and Calvert-Lewin from our strongest starting eleven, which shows how mismanaged we have been, especially considering we can't even spend anymore (fools) money because of FFP.

😅😅 Dead right, sir. I would hope he kept the hair transplant receipts.

He'd be bald again by Xmas with this bunch...

Fans will be at each other's throats, some will want the manager to be sacked whilst others will blame the amateur long-term inadequacies of the board and DoF.

I am firmly in the latter camp as I think Benitez is trying to do something about improving the wider structures at the club. He's trying to create changes that will result in longer-term improvements. It needs doing; it has been needed for a very long time, and Benitez is attempting to do it.

It's because of this that I am prepared to be patient in the face of the present malaise and almost metronomic disappointment.

We have no choice but to act as soon as we can (1st week of January) on improving the squad, and it's clear to me what needs to be done.

We need to move on Rondon and Tosun on 1 January and get a serious back-up striker. There's no way we can afford to have Calvert-Lewin injured in the second half of the season.

Relegation, if it is dismissed now by some, will be very real if we have a further period of no goal threat.

Brands has to work some magic and move Iwobi on somewhere, anywhere... Just do it. Try to get Lingard (or better?) in on loan instead. He's a more talented footballer who chips in with goals.

We've needed a right-back for two years, I know we tried to sign Dumfries, then Patterson but then, yet again, we ended up with no right-back signed. It's damaging stuff and another poor show from Marcel Brands.

Brands has to get his finger out and find these players and get the deals over the line. It's not easy, but it's not easy for most clubs either, so no excuses.

These three pieces of transfer business are essential to stabilise the club.

Derek, is I think arguably correct when he says that if David Moyes had been able to spend the financial resources made available by Moshiri we would, more likely than not, have been challenging for honours rather than be fast becoming relegation candidates.

Danny is of course absolutely right to ask what has Moyes achieved or won. Moyes hasn't won any silverware and he certainly made an abysmal career move going to Manchester United. There Ferguson had long seen the writing on the wall that he would be unable to compete with he likes of Manchester City and Chelsea. The Glazers were very much the poor relations of the Sheik and the Russian and consequently jumped ship knowing his glory days were well behind him. I feel sure that Moyes would be the first to admit going to Old Trafford was the worst decision of his career

However, Moyes did achieve considerable success at Everton in that with next to nothing to spend he produced a team which punched well above it's weight and always fought hard on the pitch as he would tolerate nothing less, a far cry from the situation with the current incumbent as manager. Without Moyes at the helm relegation would have been the likely outcome during that period.

Since Moyes left we have had a succession of supposedly top managers who have [ with the exception of Benitez ] squandered hundreds of millions on average or less than average and mainly "over the hill" players and given them overly generous contracts.

We have to face the harsh reality of the current desperately serious situation brought about primarily by poor stewardship of the club at Director level. The costly overhead structure of a seemingly poor Director of Football and an apparently unaccountable Chief Executive, both of whom may well have an expensive collection of ancillary staff cannot continue to be funded.

Relegation becomes more of a reality as each week passes. Talk of aiming for a top six place, as many had hoped for early in the season, is simply pie in the sky. Survival in the Premiership this season must be the top priority.

David Moyes is arguably the best choice to ensure retention of our current status and to lay the foundations of a longer term strategy for success. He has achieved significant progress at West Ham on a relatively modest budget but I feel he could be persuaded to return to Goodison as manager provided he had total control pf playing matters and the current deadwood [ and I exclude Duncan Ferguson from this group] was sent packing without further delay.

I think that Gordon will join Iwobi and Rondon on the bench, and he may opt for a five-man defence with today's back-four joined by Mina, three men in midfield today's two, plus Delph, and leave Richarlison and Townsend to try and make a pathway to goal. That'll get the Goodison crowd onside?

I absolutely hate us

We play crap football. We achieve crap results. We have no strategy. We don’t give youth a chance

Everything about us is AWFUL

I shouted at them today.

But I can't stop loving them.

I never will stop loving then. They hurt me but they're still Everton. My Everton.

I love Coleman but I watched him today and couldn’t help but think how on earth has he not been replaced at his age? What was the point of loaning Kean? We needed money now and if nobody was willing to buy he’s on a long contract still and for all the grief he gets he’s Messi compared to Rondon.

If we lose on wednesday there’s no coming back for Rafa and whilst he’s not been brilliant if he gets the sacked whoever comes in not make Iwobi, Holgate, Rondon decent players.

The RS would be hounding Brands out the door every match why are we all not protesting the invisible man Brands?

Would that have been given against the 'golden' 6? l very much doubt it?

Against Man City, one of our players was fouled, nothing, an identical foul on one of their players minutes later, free kick!

These refs are terrified to give decisions against the golden boys, the fact that Ferguson used to intimate refs at Old Trafford to get his way now continues in another form.

Rondon's shirt was nearly removed; was it seen, was anything given? Of course not! Did we protest, what's the point?

I've supported Everton for 63 years; would I support anyone else? Of course not, I couldn't, no matter how bad things get.

Don't get me started on 'small club' are we a big club? When was the last time we won anything? That's what big clubs do, we have trouble winning the next match so maybe there's some truth in that we can't face?

I love Everton, wart's an' all, I'll be buried with my scarf and hat.

But the fight for life in this division is now the challenge and if only the bulk of this squad had half the passion and belief of Evertonians, it would be a better place to be in.

Some of the players are not Evertonians, and it shows on the park.

It makes the blood boil, but years of exasperation, with performances on the Park, and the long decline, of EFC, as a football and commercial force, means generations of Evertonians are losing faith and hope in the club.

The board and Moshiri, surely must have their blinkers off now.

Let’s pray for some salvation soon, for Everton FC.

From the boardroom to Finch Farm, giving jobs to ex players, training regime, regular injuries. Wasted millions on abject signings. Players who couldn’t care less. No accountability. Fans treated abysmally. We’re an embarrassment to our club motto, and those who’ve gone before us

Until this year i’ve been a season ticket holder for fifteen years and have given this club my time, money and energy but this is not the club I grew up with and like fans of every other club who’s in bad shape we have a right to demand better.

I've been up since 5 am this morning, and not long been home. I'm just over a hundred quid down, me phone's fucked and me mate's lad lost his bank card not far from the stadium.

That shithouse of a manager picks Rondon and Iwobi, probably two of the worst players to ever play in the Premier League, only makes one substitution in the entire game, leaving three forwards on the bench despite being a goal down. Like I said last week, there was no commitment, motivation, effort or desire shown by anyone.

I say anyone; in my opinion, Doucouré showed some effort and Demarai Gray when he came on. He put about three decent crosses in but there was absolutely no-one anywhere near the 6-yard box to take advantage.

The stick handed out to some players who came over to the away fans was totally justified, and I just hoped they took that abuse back to the dressing room and told those who didn't come over how we all felt.

Finally, that shithouse of a manager. Your finale will be on Wednesday night after we take a good hiding from the RS.

I will give him the excuse that we are still hindered drastically by injuries and suspensions, but this doesn't excuse him from making substitutions and bringing on any of the forwards on the bench.

Whether Simms or Dobbin would have made any difference, we will never know, because he won't give them a go, but I'm certain either of them, or even Tosun would have shown more than Rondon. For fuck's sake, shop window dummies move quicker than him.

So as I say, enjoy Wednesday night, manager, then Thursday morning, go into Finch Farm, pack your bags, and then just fuck off. And before anyone comes on and asks who I would have, I don't care, just not that shithouse.

Benitez Out!!

Fuck off, Everton!

UTFT

Yes, Moyes worked on a shoestring but he had 11 seasons at Everton; Benitez has 6 months. The Premier League is a lot different than it was when he left, there are more billionaire owners and most of all, Sky Sports have made it more or less a closed shop from the Top 4 down.

Moyes also had a few dodgy seasons and he knew all the players at West Ham when he went back, and was given financial help in the transfer window.

You can't compare his situation with Benitez and I doubt if he could make any difference if he came back this season.

I am not a fan of Benitez but I doubt if there is anyone out there who will make any difference unless he is given financial help; with the number of players Everton need, that will have to be a large amount of financial help.

Before all the injuries and suspensions we had, there was the possibility of a Top 10 team that, with improvements in January, could become Top 8.

With the chopping and changes in managers, we achieved the easiest thing to do, and that is to dig yourself into a hole; we are now left with the hardest thing to do, and that is to dig our way out. Who does anyone think will be able to do that, with a third of the season over?

Just out of interest which players went over to the fans? And what was the polite basics of the fans reaction? And how did the players (so called) react?

Nothing today – Absolutely nothing!!

Fuck off, Everton!! Another good day out ruined by a shite football team!

Why does being critical of a player have to always equate to some as an assumed dislike of whichever intersection they fall under? The players I have been most critical of - on here or anywhere else - over the last five years have been Andre Gomes, Morgan Schneiderlin, Moise Kean, Tom Davies, and Alex Iwobi. The deciding factor for me will always be whatever happens on the pitch. It’s a shame that people like yourself have to dismiss the opinions of people they do not know and do not agree with as merely having their origins in bigotry. It says more about you than anything I’m afraid.

Crack on with your all-out assault on Benitez by all means - but try and play fair with anyone who disagrees with you.

I didn't want Benitez from the very beginning, and I definitely don't want him here now. And as you don't know me, don't call me a cry baby, and if you want Benitez to remain, then the only prize bell is you!

The rest of the unavailable players are just as poor as those chosen today. Gomes, Delph, Davies, et al are little more than squad players and can't be relied upon to show any consistency all of them are all of the one good performance in four or five appearances types. Mina is never fit often enough to be missed in the true sense of the word.

The one who can't be named is missed but we knew that he wouldn't take part when we submitted the squad at the start of the season and he'll likely never play for the club again, regardless of the outcome of his trial.

Seeing as the manager won't have a whopping transfer kitty available to him in January or in the summer, he needs to be doing a lot more with those he has available and today he let himself down and the club down.

I think we'll get battered on Wednesday. So why wait? Might as well give an interim manager the chance to get them up for the game.

I've nothing against Benitez that I didn't already have against Benitez. Part of my reasoning makes me quite a small man, but the bigger part was that this would always be an issue when we had a bad run. And with our squad we were always going to have a bad run.

And before you scream play the kids, Gordon was industrious today but lacked the premiership quality we desperately need. He needs investment and time to steady the ship

Darren? Is that you? I hope so.

Thought the same. Bashing the manager but defending kids, attacking fellow fans.

What would have been lost today, by introducing a youngster off the bench alongside Rondon? The manager could have taken Allan off and put a young forward on, risky perhaps, but losing one-nil or two-nil wouldn't have mattered that much and who knows we may have nicked a point or even all three, if the manager had have gone down that route.

Rondon and Townsend in Exchange for James and Kean. Absolute joke.

Iwobi played 90 mins!

Woeful transfers and woeful game management. Get rid of him now. I’d rather see Ferguson in charge.

There was a protest banner at Brentford, directed where it's deserved. There needs to be more at every match from now on, until Moshiri at last gets one thing right for a change.

I'm more confident of us winning 5-0 midweek though.

He continues to play Iwobi

He decides how we defend at corners

He decides to play a formation that concedes possession and surrenders the midfield.

At 0-1 with 15 mins to go and strikers on the bench he doesn't even try and change the play.

He is responsible and gets paid a fortune in the process.

Moshiri doesn't need the fans help in sacking managers. This fella is doing his best to get the sack and walk off with a multi million pound pay off.

He is just another one of the long line of people at the club taking the piss out of Moshiri with no intentions of even trying to improve us.

If he’d had taken that chance when he done the hard work, and turned his man, I believe would have turned the match.

But a penalty that Brentford got today, turned the game, and also note, Rondon, had his shirt pulled up his back, deffo penalty, didn’t even get a second look, by the referee, never mind VAR.

But pro rata, on effort and performance there’s a few today, in the EFC squad, in competition, but at the way it’s going, the team needs a leader on the park whose active all the game.

A tough call, Pickford, mouthy, so is Richarlison, but in view of the crisis, I’m looking for players, with the level of playing fitness, attitude, quality of play, and charisma, and that’s the issue.

Whom should be the next Everton Captain?

Who is there in the current squad can meet the Peter Reid, Trevor Steven, John Hurst, Dave Watson, Labone, Morrisey, Ratcliffe, of recent times attitude?

But collectively today, the spark, the leadership, to take the game and smash Brentford wasn’t there. That needed guts, passion, guile and belief. Demari Gray, is light years ahead in his vision and thought, but this goes back to training at FF.

It was a game that Everton should have won, but the care to keep the ball, and make good the final pass, is the consistent failing, and is failing this season, rapidly.

But it’s not been there, consistently for years.

But when the tap ins, were there today, via Demari Gray, there was no one there. There’s no midfielder at the current Everton team, who can and thinks of a burst mode run, to cause or get a goal.

But I’ll take the flak, DCL, regularly gets in the right area, but also misses the same on a plate chances, and I’d like to see what the TW Statto’s, can provide on the chances inside the 6 yard box, conversion ratio, for DCL.

So, Everton, for ever Everton, I’ll be dropping into a Church on Wednesday, regardless, of where I'm working, as it’s getting seriously concerning.

Not scoring, and negative -4 GD, and a barrage of games means, it’s the Time for resilience, and to stick together as a club and fight, the battle, which will be there, every day, and won’t go away, for a long time, if ever.

But this season Everton, must stay up, and every game v Burnley, Norwich, Toon, Leeds, is a 6 pointer.

Focus on the injuries, and it’s a killer, but in the short term, the toughest run of games in years, needs character that requires players, who have belief and the will to fight and win their duels and keep going for 97 minutes.

Do they have these basic attributes to do this week in, week out?

Making Trevor Ross, and Mike Bernard look like stellar players, but it’s the way it is.

True Grit, never more needed, and Wednesday, is a chance to shine, wilt or hide.

Derbies make Legends, for various reasons, let’s see.

Still, will spend £300 plus on club merchandise next week at the club shop! It what this club means to us!I

What is done is done can't be undone! On to the next!

Better days are ahead!

For me, it's a combination of factors. The squad IS weak - and that's the main factor for me. How many managers have we had in the last 5 or 6 years? With a squad that's seen little change; a squad that's as weak as piss. Changing the manager frequently is just taking a gamble that the next "saviour" will be the real McCoy.

That doesn't absolve Rafa from the errors of his selections and substitutions. I'm baffled at times.

But we can't change manager AGAIN, after only 13 games, with the same squad, and expect a different long-term outcome.

I believe he has to be given time and money. Money and time.

As a Club, Team and Fan Base we seem to slowly having the life sucked out of us.

Brentford are this seasons Sheff U. How they go next season will tell the tale.

Rondon looked 'better' but it's a low bar.

Benitez?? I'm over him being an ex rs FSW etc. And I said I'd judge him on the football - which isn't good.

Would changing him do any good? There is no quick fix.

How bad must Simms and Dobbin be?

Either the manager, or the DOF needs to choose and buy the players to buy. We have had the DOF the manager and the owner choosing players, if the rumour is true that Moshiri wanted Tosun and Iwobi.

I didn’t want Rafa and felt today he sat on his hands rather than being on another striker or two and potentially cost us points. But, if we sack him and he joins Silva, Sam, Rm and Koeman getting a golden handshake and the sack, who will choose his replacement? The same people who’ve hired a series of expensive failures. Who will handle recruitment for the next mug? The same people who spent millions on fees and wages for the likes of Gomes and Iwobi who have hamstrung us financially. Who will handle youth production? The same crowd who let Small, that other 30 million rated kid and potentially Dobbin walk away but tied down numerous worse players on long term deals? No one can succeed with the untouchables mismanaging the club behind the revolving door of managers.

Even in real time it was clear. Moss corrupt

The volcano, of blight which is EFC, must be stemmed, so who and how is up to trying to fix the problem?

Pickford, Coleman, Kean, Mina, Digne, Gray, Allan, Gomes, Doucoure, Richarilison, DCL

You replace Rondon with DCL, Townsend with Gray and Iwobi with Richi and its a completely different game.

Paul says he's tried to liaise with Moshiri and the boardroom, but to no avail. Effectively they shun him, a man of evident corporate savvy.

If Paul's analysis is right, and there's nothing said by anyone to detail why it isn't, there is NO money of significance for signing anyone until 2023 arrives, and it's not guaranteed then.

Of course selling DCL and/or Richarlison would ease that situation transfer-wise but, whilst they each have admirable qualities, does anyone see any club willing to pay more than we did for Richarlison? Or DCL, whose profile is only (IMHO), given the team he's in, on a par with the likes of Ivan Toney and Ollie Watkins?

Moshiri and his minions have created the perfect storm for the club and its fans. That said, getting rid of the lot of them would be desirable only if they had the largesse to accede to buggering off so that a competent replacement/s could regenerate us Green and Leahy need not apply).

I ain't holding my breath, and I definitely don't look forward to watching us on the weekly EFL broadcast shown on British TV (a different game every three minutes) which I think is our fate right now.

To me right now BMD will from it's outset be as significant to most people as the riverside Museum of Liverpool is, in it's much better city-centre location, obviously.

Most people walk or drive past it perhaps wondering "What's the point of that?" It's content is unchanging and mundane.

Come to think of it, it hits the present numpties' brief for Everton on that score.

Really feel sorry for our travelling fans. Link to few of those videos in case some of you haven't seen them:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1464990282965999622

https://twitter.com/i/status/1465006062688477198

https://twitter.com/i/status/1464988520041394178

I'm fairly sure Benitez is looking over the horizon at the calendar as well. After boxing day we have a run of eight league games featuring Burnley, the Barcodes twice, Villa, Leeds, Soton, Norwich and Brighton. Only Brighton among that group are presently in the top half of the table.
If we entertain a run of form in that set of fixtures like the one we're presently on it's goodnight Vienna. Alternately, five wins and two draws and Premiership safety would be almost virtually assured. Regardless, it would be that run of fixtures that Benitez would be targeting most intently.

So, with that in mind, it would appear to be a fairly grim holiday period ahead for Evertonians, at least in football terms. Allied to this is our owner, not exactly known for holding his nerve.
A midweek belting will turn the heat up significantly, and Benitez is actually a lot more vulnerable than he might think. 4-0 or 5-0 to the RS might well have the club executive wondering if Benitez is the right man to take us into this crucial run of post Boxing day games.
The prospect of caretaker Dunc managing in a series of early 2022 six pointers is not something I'm entirely looking forward to either. It's not than unreasonable a prospect, is it? A stunning indictment on the serial mismanagement - by Moshiri - of this club.

If (when?) we lose to the RS. It’ll be interesting to see if Rafa does a Gerard Houllier and celebrates with the RS fans.

I've asked the question since last season regarding how poor a player Iwobi is. The lad just cannot compete at this level; his distribution, positional awareness and strength don't exist. Yet he now starts games! We are a f*cking joke of a club.

I know some fans will disagree but amongst some new faces we need to bring in in Jan one of them should be Ross Barkley from Chelsea. Even if its a loan deal.

Everyone who wrote on here after the match - logical or illogical, calm or furious, hopeful or defeated - had every right to do so. There is lot’s of blame to go round as our current state is a long time coming.

But, if you don’t want to read it then I respectfully suggest it is you who should do one.

Good idea.

Over the post Moyes era I've seen plenty of posts on here claiming we were headed for relegation. I always scoffed. There have always been plenty of worse teams.

I'm not sure that's the case now. Have your seen our last 10 results? Did you watch them?

We're clueless. Absolutely clueless. I don't see how this gets turned around.

I'm strongly questioning whether 'do nothing' is a viable option. If we go down without rolling a dice it will be pathetic. Just as not rolling any kind of attacking dice yesterday was pathetic.

This can't carry on.

To further rub salt into the wound we again have a referee who gave us nothing and everything in Brentford's favour. This may sound controversial but I don't think a penalty should have been awarded, what is a player supposed to do when trying to clear a ball in the penalty area ? Let it touch the ground (probably too late) before attempting a clearance ? Townsend was only concerned about clearing the ball out of defence, and had his eyes on the ball. (understandably) I think the Brentford player seized the opportunity to possibly get the ball, but also stand a decent chance of a 'manufactured' penalty.

Having said that, in open play, what appeared to be a decent move was thwarted by, misplaced passes or front players not being quick enough or on the same wavelength as their team-mates. It smacked of lack of confidence again, nobody prepared to have a shot at goal but rather let that responsibility fall to someone else. When Gray came on it was almost criminal, when some lovely balls /crosses into the danger area were not met by a lethargic lump in Rondon, who seems to have the mobility of a Drunken Walrus, or Iwobi who was rarely anywhere to be seen.

Then the substitutions, or lack of them, when a large injection of refreshment was needed, wtf ? Who do we play Wednesday ? Strewth Bruce !

Then most of the rest tentatively followed them. Interesting sight to see and it reminded me of what I've seen at Schalke when the players go to face the music regardless of result; win or lose. Only Everton's players didn't quite get that close yesterday. There was a definite self-imposed safety distance!

You could see it affected Seamus the most. Despite the not so welcoming response from the fans, he held his badge. I know it doesn't excuse anything, but he felt it and gave a shit.

Put it right on Wednesday and don't be beaten before a ball is kicked. Simple right?

The banner was about 4 rows directly in front of me, so I couldn't read it at the time. But the anger from the fans was clear and surely can't have gone unnoticed?

Do people really come on here under the guise of different names? How naive of me thinking I'm talking to real people! Oh well, my opinions may go up and down like Everton's results, but rest assured, I'm me!!

Can you tell us your views on the responses of the Everton away to the board, players, and the manager - I still can't name him - after the final whistle? Was it as bad as Twittersphere says, and who Rob, was the main anger aimed at.

FFS I saw Everton players walking away from the best fans in the land rather than walk to them and clap. They were, quite frankly, shitting themselves and embarrassed.

Wednesday, surely, if it goes wrong, is a bear-pit in the making. Let's pray it doesn't.

I know we have all lamented Everton for their marketing efforts in the past and that it will be an automated message. But bold as brass, I've just had an email offering me 35% discount from the online store as part of the club's Cyber Monday campaign.

Talk about timing!!!

Admittedly, my military career meant I spent most of the early 90s and early 2000s watching Everton from afar aside from being back in the city for a period mid to late 90s, which included the Coventry last day survival season.

But I'll stick my neck out and say I don't recall that kind of supporter reaction since that very dark "Kendall must go" period in winter 1983?? It was collectively that serious yesterday. A proper unified turn and front. No cry babies, just a very angry crowd of travelling supporters. And justifiably so. As Howard is famously quoted, you are facing the most knowledgable fans in football. Not happy clappers, not doom mongers. Supporters who know what they see and tell the team and manager good or bad.

We've had the odd half-hearted spat over the years. The Kenwright out plane banners, falling out with Martinez because he dropped Baines. But I personally don't recall such a collective show of anger and frustration from the entire Everton support.

I'd take another 83-84 turn around. Staring relegation in the face come Christmas, finish 7th and win the FA Cup come May. But I can't see it; in fact no chance. I hate myself for saying this, but just get to 38 points as soon as we can. No white flag just yet, but that has to be the priority.

Talking to my brother last night and he was rubbing salt into my wounds as he is a very pragmatic Evertonian, whereas I'm too emotional. Since West From last February or March, we've taken 27 points from the last 24 games.

I was going to post about how annoying it is to be told you're not a real fan just because one has the temerity to refuse to tolerate such garbage football. How much more annoying it must be for the loyal fans who spend good money travelling down to London on a freezing winter morning only to be served up that rubbish.

If you want Benitez to go, fair do’s, that’s your prerogative, however my side of the argument is that Benitez is here to not only manage the club but to challenge some of those in the boardroom who have been here for years and watched the steady decline of the football side of the club until we are in the sorry state where we are.

Benitez is trying to change that style of mangagement and that one banner shown at the game yesterday is a small start to try and shake this club of ours up.

You won’t agree and I’ll understand, we are on different sides of the debate, your side of it could be right, mine might be, I hope mine is right because if I’m wrong, and I very well could be, then Everton FC will carry on as it has been for too long and it will finish up where we definitely, both of us, don’t want Everton to be.

Best wishes Rob, see you soon I hope.

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, most of us can tolerate a defeat if there is plenty of effort and commitment etc shown, but there’s not. I’ve yet to see “effort and commitment” pull on a blue shirt and then get injured or suspended, so for anyone using injuries and suspensions as an excuse, sorry it don’t wash with me. Also I’m still totally baffled as to why we had three forwards on the bench, losing 1-0 and yet not one of them is thrown on. It was very much like when we played West Ham a few years back. Winning 2-0 (were we also down to ten men?) with about 10-15 minutes to go, so what did Martinez do, makes a substitution by putting another midfielder or attacker on, I can’t remember who it was, instead of putting another defender on to see the game out. We ended up losing 3-2!

Dave Abrahams, as much as I too understand Rob's and others' sentiment and the manager deserves the criticism for yesterday and matches prior, I agree with your position. I don't think it does us any good going through yet another managerial change.

And as much as he wasn't my choice (mine is now 35 miles down the East Lancs at Old Trafford), I too agree, he could be someone who can shake up the board and force change because he's not scared to challenge the board room and ruffle feathers.

If he does that alone, it will represent progress for the next incumbent. But that time is not now in my opinion.

This morning, thinking I had calmed down, I went back to the Everton website. (Yes I will be seeking help for this self-destructive behaviour) only to be informed:

”A first-half penalty from Ivan Tovey condemned Everton to defeat." Good to know.

Here's silly me thinking you can still win a match, even if the other team scores from a penalty.

So apparently its someone else's fault, not ours. Now where have I heard that before?

Laurie H, go and say your prayer on the beautifully regenerated Melbourne docks mate, and pray for better times for us all.

The Echo guys have been scything in their comments about the individual players. But, the team had the majority of the play.

IMO it shouldn't have been given as a penalty to Watford as there was no chance of them scoring from the position that was equally wrong in the high foot by Townsend to the Brentford player ducking, and then doing a dying swan performance that would have been lauded (or booed) in the ballets in Russia. Of course, it was Effin' Jon Moss doing the VAR. Need I say more?

At least the players tried to win so please let's stop giving them SHoneT for not trying.

As a footnote, I still think Rafa is the right manager to have.

I often hear how wonderful the supporters of Newcastle are – another club who haven't challenged for a trophy in decades, like ourselves, but as someone posted when they got their new owners and showed up with an empty Upper Bullens a couple of seasons back, where were those brilliant supporters then???

And I won't even mention how our neighbours are heralded as having some of the best fans in the game, are they the same fans that attacked the Roma and Man City coaches prior to games in the Champions League, and despite a huge police presence, no arrests were made. But there is never any mention of our brilliant away supporters taking up their full application for years.

So, if anybody deserves to be angry, it's our brilliant away supporters – thank god for being the one thing we can be proud of.

I agree with Marc Hints in post 320. I too wanted Galtier before Benitez, his track record at Lille at winning the French league ahead of PSG screamed he was the man we should have gotten.

Mind, in all my years of supporting the Blues, we have on numerous occasions employed the wrong managers. We could and should have had Brian Clough; we should and could have had Bobby Robson but didn't.

We have hired a man who was sadly past his sell-by date, and previously hired Koeman and Silva who had done nothing to warrant managing Everton. But let's not forget – this regime hired Allardyce... so who would ever trust their judgement?

I know that you and I are roughly the same age and have been following Everton for about the same length of time, and I mainly agree with many of your posts over the years. But I can't agree with your thoughts that Benitez is here to also challenge those in the boardroom.

While that area of the club does need sorting, Benitez should concentrate on producing a better team before he starts on the boardroom. But if you look at his history, even going back to when he was at Valencia, he tried to distract his failings onto the board.

He is employed as the manager – start being effective at that first. Although, as he showed in his last two jobs, he failed at Newcastle but, because he was always at loggerheads with Ashley, the fans loved him. Apart from getting them relegated – and yes, he did get them back promoted, but only to survive, not produce anything of note.

Despite being this supposedly great coach, nobody in Europe was interested in hiring him, so he sloped off to China only to fail again. I bet he couldn't believe his luck when Dumb and Dumber contacted him to be our manager.

Looking at that points tally, Danny, is it any wonder Ancelotti informed Madrid that he had a clause in his contract and was available without any compensation?

I understand the people who didn't want Benitez; I don't understand why Benitez never made a couple more subs when chasing the game yesterday. But, with the cards he's currently being dealt, then I'm not sure there is anyone out there that would be doing better with this current squad?

Beating Liverpool won't change a thing imo, because there is something rotten inside the corridors of Everton Football Club and, until it's removed, our long-term future will definitely see the club relegated at some stage.

Of this I'm pretty certain, and that's why I think we need to act now, even if it means another failed ground move, because this can surely be the only reason Farhad Moshiri is not feeling the real anger that is slowly simmering towards the surface.

Bob P, I saw the game like you did mate, once our back four settled down and began to play as a unit. But it's quality or bravery that wins football matches, and the only time Everton produced any of the first (besides Rondon's chance), was when Demari Gray was introduced into the game. Unfortunately, the manager hadn't been brave enough in putting on another forward, especially when both Iwobi and Gordon were doing nothing.

You've just made the point I was going to make: it's not Benitez's responsibility to alter the way the board operates. He's at Goodison to try and improve the team and motivate and inspire the players to pull their tripe out in each and every game.

He can request certain alterations to the medical team, and other player-related aspects, but expecting him to submit and activate a blueprint for the way the club is run is far too much to expect from any single individual.

The buck stops with Moshiri and his band of merry men on the board at Everton FC; they sanction sales and purchases, they decide the length of contracts offered, the salaries that are given out, and all of the other business decisions, and of course, they are responsible for the hiring and firing of the management team.

Whether it is true or not, for a very long time, it appears as if the direction that the club takes is subject to the prevailing winds of misfortune. I suspect that there's never been a plan, beyond an optimistic 'This manager will get it right'; meanwhile, the quality of the squad has been weakened, year-in & year-out.

Until the leaders at the club realise that the players are the most important element of building a team, the club is doomed to fail – all managers are limited by the quality of the squad they have available; if we lose the likes of Richarlison and Dominic in the near future, things will get worse unless we are fortunate and unearth the next Messi or Mbappe.

Regardless of the merits of the current manager, if Everton fails to win any of its next four matches, it will be very difficult for the top-brass to resist pulling the trigger, but that won't be a solution to the deep-lying issues that have beset the club.

Until and unless the top-brass realise that there are issues to be solved at Everton FC, we will continue to ride the not-so-magic roundabout of despair.

Keys

At the end of the day I hope our club is sorted out for the better and that for me would be without Kenwright and his clique.

It is now a game of nerve. The first cracks in the resistance will be an injection of funds in the January transfer window. Brands is currently stalling, but I expect Moshiri will inject funds for Benitez. Benitez's computer stats on players had better be up to date because he will get little help from Brands.

If he survives to January, Benitez will be in a stronger position to push through changes and have his staff better placed. Also, injured players whose recovery is stalling will have to be available, they cannot go into the New Year if they are serious footballers.

There will be no attempt at changes on the Board or outside Benitez's remit. Even if Benitez goes, Everton will not be relegated.

Benitez has started at the right time to establish control and bring in change but he is shocked by the resistance he is encountering.

Hold your nerve, Rafa, and you will be okay.

On another note, I think we should go back in for Emil Forsberg the Swedish lad (if we can afford it) he's a good player that lad, I'd rather him than Van de Beek I don't really rate him TBH. Apparently Everton have been scouting Forsberg since 2016 it's interesting that yet look at who we've signed since then. He was great at the Euro's too.

I hated Benitez more than most, but I'm willing him to win these so-called battles that you speak about, Jerome, because, being a suspicious man, I also definitely believe that the enemy is within, unfortunately.

Everything wrong with modern football is encapsulated at our club, people trousering (and skirting) huge payoffs for producing nothing.

Brands?, surely he would be in favour of whichever manager is in the hot-seat and it doesn't appear that he has that much say in the major decision-making processes at Goodison.

Denise? maybe, but again she is beholden to the chairman and the owner and it wouldn't be in her interests to rock the boat would it?

If it's none of the above then we are looking at the rest of the staff, and surely Benitez if he felt he was being undermined would seek their removal from the club, none of our current people are irreplaceable are they?

All the above is mere speculation and I suspect that Jerome doesn't have any better handle on things than the rest of us.

After the early season bubble, we are really awful. The ''replacements'' are not even playing for a place and one would think they would be putting in a shift.

Losing to Brentford and Watford is really indicative of the performances. If Burnley had played and won then Everton would be a mere 3 points above the drop zone right now

Rafa really crapping out now and the obsession with Rondon is alarming.

Dreading to see the next instalment of this mediocre slide.

I think it was Niasse! So not just a striker (if you are happy to call him that), but one with zero PL experience at the time. One of the most baffling substitutions ever.

What doesn’t shock me is that Jerome says, that Benitez, is shocked by the resistance.

I’ve just wrote it on another thread I think, but if I was in charge of Everton right now, I’d be looking to separate the training facilities, at least until I had a real charge over everyone.

Keys has said something similar before, but something tells me that they’ve had enough now?

So I am pursuing a hateful, anti-Everton agenda simply because I don't agree with you slagging off fellow Everton fans?

Were the thousands of away supporters at Brentford who rightly slaughtered the team following a 'hateful, anti-Everton agenda'?

Your original post was an embarrassing post and this one beats it. Congratulations!

As for advising me to go and support someone else, I don't think I will given I've committed over 40 years to it so far.

I understand the gist of Jerome's post, however, any resistance being shown, is by what I would describe as underlings, and therefore the manager with the support of the board shouldn't have too much trouble in removing them if they are as disruptive as Jerome claims them to be.

He is being asked to play by the manager, when clearly then he was unfit, but now he is fit and it's to clear us all, he is not able to play at this standard. And playing nearly all of these games with 10 men has destroyed confidence in the squad.

I want this manager to be successful, but being stubborn and unable to change his strategies with players will mean losing the opportunity to succeed.

Imagine trying to sell it now! Who would pay for the new stadium at Bramley-Moore Dock? I still don't think it will happen as I'm skeptical of every single thing these lying bastards do but just imagine!!

Would Kim Jong Bill accept a new owner? Will Ferguson have a permanent place on the bench for the next 10 years? Will the boys club at Finch Farm be broken up? It's hard to imagine what Sheikh Mansour could have done for Everton but one greedy arl fucker stood in his way.

The cronyism that has pervaded the club for so long is finally starting to be shown up for what it is – outdated and thoroughly unwanted. What a sad sad state of affairs and yet still nothing happens.

"If Benitez insists on playing Rondon, it'll be the end of him."

We're well past that point, mate, but the stubborn shite won't change. Neither the player nor the manager should be at the club, both well past their sell-by dates.

To think people on this site were celebrating the fact that James was forced out of the club... ☹

Agreed

Benitez has been dealt a shit hand but his perseverance with Rondon and Iwobi beggars belief. It’s hard to remember two such ineffective players being selected continuously.

Yesterday a lot of the players weren’t terrible but our lack of a cutting edge with those two liabilities in the forward positions sealed our fate against a team that I’m pretty sure will get relegated.

Welcome to Everton, Mr Benitz, now you see our biggest problem: it is bad decisions from Refs and bad luck.

What we as a club and fan base should be doing is checking our legal rights to unbiased, fair decisions.

Does anybody disagree that we should have had a penalty against Spurs? Goalie gets the ball first and then fouls the player we get nothing, overturned by VAR. The MotD people thought it was a penalty.

Mason gets the ball first and then fouls the player – red card.

Brentford game, Both MotD pundits thought is was a stone cold penalty. VAR said nothing wrong.

Who was on VAR on both of those outrageous decisions? JONATHON MOSS Coincidence???

The club needs to go back and study all the games this season and any totally wrong decisions need to be examined with the 'anonymous VAR people' identified

As for Rafa, the time to let him go has now gone, now we have to pay to release Rafa. His payoff would count against our FFP costs.

The interim manager that Man Utd have appointed will be their full time manager at the end of the season, he was the choice I would have made.

Back to Rafa, we have a very talented core and if Richarlison had been available, he would have placed both of those superb crosses in the back of the net. However, that does not excuse Gordon he should have tucked in to place the balls.

If Gray, Doucouré, Richarlison, Mina and Calvert-Lewin play against Liverpool we might shock some people.

However, with a fully fit squad as the season started, it looked like we had a plan. Now, it looks like getting shut of James seemed like his first priority and without Sigurdsson that's a lot of our productivity removed from this squad. Wages we got off the books in addition were Bernard, Besic, Bolasie, Walcott… so already that's a lot.

So. Let’s take stock having endured another loss. Not using his subs was a bad idea but, looking at it another way, if you forget the result, the performance was quite improved. We had more possession and Rondon played a lot better. His feet left the ground when he jumped and he looked stronger.

So yes, off the bench, Rondon can do a job for us. Iwobi l have no excuses for. He moans about not being played in his best position but when he gets the ball he's too slow to realise what's around him when any top player would know. At the age he's at, he should be more sure of himself, more confident, more precise. I am quite certain that he will be yet another player that Brands will have to loan out while he runs down his contract. Enough is enough.

Anceloti got the blueprint on how to play against the RS but being his own man l'm sure that won't be considered, and of course we don't have the personnel unless Benitez springs a surprise and plays Branthwaite. We can give it a good go. I think we need an extra body in the middle, preferebly Delph and to take our chances. If they fall to Richarlison, Townsend or Gray l'd be confident.

I don't want to feel smug because our manager is under pressure. It wouldn't surprise me if we have to endure more losses but we can't get rid of another manager. He has to be given at least till Xmas.

Any fellow Blue having the gall to call him and others 'lightweight cry babies' haven't got the measure of the man. Literally. I've seen photos of Rob shared here on TW. Have you seen the size of him? Good luck in calling him a 'lightweight cry baby' to his face in the white heat of post-match revulsion live at the match as yesterday. Enjoy your visit to the nearest hospital casualty.

Secondly, I note since the League Cup loss at QPR Rob has been emphatic in pretty much all his post-match (as an attendee) comments. 'Benitez Out.'

I admit to being somewhat surprised by this as Rob's posting history leans towards tolerance and patience with players and managers alike, so he has gone early on Benitez.

Now I personally, as an exiled Blue, have varying degrees of contact with 15-20 city-based Blues and, like me, before Rafa's appointment (I have no hang-ups about using his first name) all of us were a tad leary of installing him as manager, but not one of us were vehemently opposed to him for his red connections. Not one of us were hung up about his 'small club' jibe and all of us accepted his appointment once confirmed and were willing to support him.

Rob's (and others) posts about the faithfuls reaction at the final whislte, as demonstrated by Soren's Twitter links, indicate there is a growing body of match-attending supporters who are at the end of their tether. This is concerning.

Resolve is being tested right now. The paucity of talent and squad depth is being wickedly exposed. That is not of Rafa's making. He has inherited that shit fest.

I am sure he would have preferred a summer transfer budget with a few more zeroes on the end of it than the £1.7m he was restricted to.

I am sure he would have liked to generate more transfer funds from the sale of non-performing players, only no one is so daft as to cough up a fee for some of them, and certainly not pay them the inflated salaries it is said they are on at Everton.

I am sure if there was a Rooney, or even a Barkley-level player in the academy Rafa would immediately slot him into the first team.

I am sure the players currently being selected would not be getting as much game time as they are if we weren't so badly afflicted by long-term injuries as we have been.

Like it or not, these are all considerable mitigating circumstances as to why Benitez and the team is currently struggling.

The manager is just 15 competitive games into his tenure at Everton. He has a LOT to sort it. He cannot do it alone.

Given Rafa's history and the evident toxicity some hold against him for his 'previous associations', as was acknowledged by many at the time of his appointment, his honeymoon period was always going to be shorter than any other appointment, as are any inclinations to be tolerant and patient with a new manager.

I remain in the camp we need to hold our nerve and stick with him. But I also recognize at the end of the day, results ultimately determine a manager's longevity at the club.

Moshiri, the club, the team, the fans...we all need managerial stability. This continual rinse-wash-repeat of managers under the club owner has only returned a spoiled wardrobe as the mixed colours of different regime signings 'run into' each other.

Who is the leader in the group that will get to grips with ALL aspects within the club to genuinely move us forward?

Richard Keys, absolute rubbish. Moshiri and Usmanov aren't in it to win Premier Leagues and Champions Leagues. They are there to build a stadium and sell their shares at a profit. They're going nowhere until that stadium is built.

For Benitez, the cynic inside me says he was employed because Moshiri knew he'd be the one Everton fans turned on and the not the charlatans in the boardroom.

Apparently, Everton has scrapped plans to release a Christmas song based on the link below: only jesting but it is a good tune.

Madness

Benitez is a shit manager with out-dated tactics, he is boring as fuck to listen to and his sides are even worse to watch. Do us a favour and do one, you boring odious kopite.

It is a healthy mind that is able to agree to disagree. What I am about to state can be seen as ridiculous but, after 24 hours of reflection, it is as honest as I can be:

(1) I don't think we were as bad as most have posted. If this was the absolute worst you have ever seen Everton play, then you must not have watched them for very long.

(2) Your frustration is completely understandable.

(3) Rondon is the scapegoat for everything that is wrong with "not winning".

(4) Benitez made the wrong sub at the wrong time. All managers have done such evil deeds.

(5) I am not a Benitez fan but it is a waste of time to replace him until he has had at least one opportunity to use a window in January.

(6) I don't think we were nearly as bad as the result indicates. There was plenty of effort, we were far better than Brentford and they got all the breaks. The penalty was beyond lucky, even if it actually was a penalty.

(7) Most TW responses are based on the fact that we are having a horrendous run and not on the actual game itself.

(8) If you are actually going to "give up" supporting Everton because they are playing so badly, then you are not really a "supporter". In my case, after 70 years of watching, I just don't have any other option, nor do I want one.

(9) I have read all posts and Mick O'Malley (324) and Bob Parrington (345) get my award for common sense. But everyone who wrote in is a frustrated Evertonian with an honest point of view.

(10) We will not be relegated.

(11) This last one is really causing me tension but I have to say it: We will beat Liverpool!!!

I do realize that there are a few "arseholes" who are going to find another team. I welcome your decision. You can support your new team until they lose then you will have to find a different team.

COYB. Once a Blue, Always a Blue.

.

At Christmas, we will be even lower, but the second half of the season should be better. With troops returning, a few journeymen signed cheaply to cover key positions, and an easier run of fixtures, we will end the season mid-table I think.

Still disappointing, but it is where the club is these days. The glory days are over and the way the game's finances are arranged, I can't see them returning.

"Andrew - so we don't play the kids when playing bad, and we certainly shouldn't if we were on a streak".

Why not play them (towards the end of games) if we're "on a streak"? A safer exposure for them to Premier League level competition. Safer for the team if we're on the way to winning the game. And it takes off the field players who might need protecting for various reasons (yellow card; slight injury; recently back from injury).

Which teams bring in youngsters when they are on the slide? The ones that recognize their faults and problems and are prepared to try to change rather than continue repeating their mistakes.

Of course, that won't be necessary when our injuries are behind us... unless of course we find a previously unrealized or untried gem, but then there are only limited ways that may happen.

I understand the frustration of the travelling fans at Brentford who've paid hard earned cash, but at least the players went over at the end apologetically. You don't kick a man when he's down. I felt particularly sorry for Coleman who always gives 100%. It's not his fault if his aging legs aren't what they once were.

I cannot understand people on here who think we have some divine right to Premier League status. Recently, I've watched teams at the bottom closely. In truth, on current form, we're the worst of the lot. I'm not being a merchant of doom, or failing to support my team, I'm simply being a realist, especially given our upcoming fixture list.

Benitez needs to realise right now that current tactics and selections are simply not working. Before it is too late.

I remember two clubs turning to the youngsters to turn their fortunes around. Villa three or four years ago and West Ham under Redknapp.

Both went down.

I didn't see any one 'lacking effort' v Man City. We were a depleted team, further depleted in-game with the early loss of Gray, who were relentlessly worn down by a vastly superior team.

Yesterday was similar. The effort was there. The guile, the talent, the ability, to put a poor Brentford away only flickered.

Pickford was largely redundant. Effective in pretty much all he did. Some good distribution.

Coleman was Everton's standout player for me yesterday. Very good both defensively and on the ball. Tried to drive the team forward. Offered much more in the final quarter of the pitch than Digne on the other flank.

Digne, not great. Not one assist from the man this season, showing how poor his final delivery has been for some months now. I noted Gordon, rather than Digne, was also on corner-taking duties. Got too involved with the sly Spaniard, Canos, who might have seen a second yellow card with another referee.

Keane, very good in most that he did, but people focus on the one time that Toney got the run on him. I lost count of the number of times he not only won an aerial ball, but with deft headers laid it off perfectly to another player to put Everton on the front foot. Brought the ball out well from defence and played a variation of accurate passes through midfield and to the forwards.

Godfrey, gets mentioned in the same breath as Stones above when he is a completely different type of footballer. Stones is a genuine ball-playing centre-back. Godfrey is more an old style 'recovery' defender, relying heavily on his speed and strength. Did 'okay'.

Allan, only plays short, square 10-yard passes, according to one comment above. Nonsense. Another fine game by the Brazilian. Good protection of the defence. Good ball retention and a good number of progressive passes forward.

Doucouré, a solid if not spectacular return to the team. A little ring-rusty at times. Showing his power and good engine at others. Good to see him back.

Gordon, I can't fathom the absolutism some are given to, either about the manager or individual players. Anthony had some very good moments in the game which reinforce my own personal view that he is getting to grips with being a Premier League player. He has shown more awareness and responsibility in his defensive duties this season and has displayed good aggression at times in winning the ball back. The flip side is, he can still be too easily knocked off the ball at times. His effectiveness faded as the game progressed yesterday, but nowhere near as forlorn as some have claimed.

Townsend, possibly his poorest game since arriving at the club. I won't condemn him for the penalty (and sorry, but it was clearly a penalty). Shit like that happens. But he was careless in possession, his passing and his crossing. Rightly subbed out.

Rondon, possibly an unpopular view, but that was his best game for Everton yesterday. Yes, that may not be saying much, but he almost scored and should have had a penalty. For those continuing to say Benitez 'persists' in playing Rondon, he was only playing because of injuries. As soon as Richarlison returned, he was benched. He started yesterday because – guess what? – Calvert-Lewin is still injured, Richarlison suspended, and Gray not considered fully fit to play the entire game.

On our penalty shout, think back to the penalty Calvert-Lewin won away to Leeds this season. Ref didn't give it. Calvert-Lewin was adamant he was pulled back. VAR ref advises match ref to take a look. Pen given.

Yesterday was exactly the same scenario, only the shirt pulling was even more blatant. So how does Moss rule it was not 'a clear and obvious error' by the match ref?

It is very exasperating when there is such inconsistency in VAR and match referees' decision-making.

Iwobi. I always judge the team and players on a game-by-game basis, so I am never predisposed to think poorly of any player. But he was poor and ineffective yesterday.

Gray, showed what we missed. Some lovely deliveries. Rondon, Gordon, possibly Doucouré, need to be making runs to attack those sort of crosses. Calvert-Lewin and Richarlison most certainly would be.

Benitez, strange he didn't try something – anything! – to retrieve and even win the game by not using two subs available to him. He didn't even 'protect' Doucouré or Allan with the game vs 'them' coming on up Wednesday (one returning from long-term injury, the other reported as picking up a knock during the week).

The question on whether Dobbin or Simms could have been introduced is a tricky one. In mid-week, Dobbin totally dominated Brighton's U23s... for one half only. He was then anonymous for the rest of the game. Note: Brighton U-23s.

Similarly, Simms played his first 45 minutes of competitive football this season in the same game before being withdrawn at half-time. Far from fit then.

I get the calls 'Well, if they are on the bench for the first team, they are ready to enter the fray.' I also understand a manager's reticence in not exposing them to the pressures of the Premier League in the midst of a losing run.

Yep! We eventually need to see if they can cut it, but neither are in the same galaxy talent-wise as the teenage phenomena that was Wayne Rooney. Such is the arrogance of youth, they may just surprise us.

Rondon was not within 5 yards of any ball going into the box by that stage. It would have least have given a very comfortable Brentford defence something else to think about.

Equally, no fans would have blamed Simms or Dobbin, even Tosun, if we had still lost the game. Even 24 hours after the game, when frustrations have lessened, it makes no sense whatsoever.

Jay (BRZ), thank you for your logical post. That was the closest Premier League ground I will make a trip to yesterday. It still took me 5 hours to make a 1-hour trip home. Sat amongst Brentford and then Chelsea fans reflecting. Not a pleasant place to be. And yes, I got told off for it by Mrs Danny. The dogs just looked at me with concern this morning.

John Boon. Thank you again for more sanity. Sadly I've seen far worse than this. I'm out of the country now until Palace away. I will be watching every match until then and then be present amongst the faithful at Selhurst Park next month.

I just want the team to show the same faith as me and all Evertonians. Ability gets you so far. Belief takes you further. I know I am a fool, but I'll never stop believing.

So far, all he has been able to do is purchase players that each new incoming manager has wanted, not his own... at least that is my feeling regarding this. If you have a Director of Football, you should leave the directing of the football to him, not to a mishmash of people on the board. I would think it's the DoF's job to identify which style you want to play (together with the board) and then purchase and mold players to suit that type of play.

The latest managerial appointments have much differed in style and mindset, from Martinez to Koeman to Allardyce to Marco Silva to Ancelotti and now Benitez. And all have brought in their own-style players. It's a mish-mash of players chosen by a bunch of different managers, to suit each style.

Martinez - Boalsie, Schneiderlin, Calvert-Lewin, Lookman, Deulofeu
Koeman - Sigurdsson, Klaassen, Keane, Pickford
Allardyce - Tosun, Walcott
Marco Silva - Iwobi, Kean, Gomes, Gbamin, Delph, Richarlison, Mina, Digne
Ancelotti - James, Doucouré, Allan, Godfrey
Benitez - Gray, Rondon, Townsend

I'm listing those on the top of my head. I may have put some players wrong and forgotten some, but in the main that's a small picture...

First of all, Brands was appointed May 2018. So many players weren't even signed on his watch, and don't tell me for one second that the players signed after that were the players that Brands wanted to bring in... He's just a pawn in the managerial merry-go-round.

I would like him to actually get some responsibility in the club and see what he can do with a progressive, new-thinking manager like, say Graham Potter. You all see what Potter has done with Brighton, it would be exciting to see what he could do with us. I think a partnership of Brands and Potter could be a really good match.

In my opinion, the team actually isn't that bad, they're just poorly managed. Almost the full starting eleven consists of full international players. They wouldn't represent their countries if they sucked...

This team is much better playing on the front-foot, pressing and attacking, making runs, commiting players forward. We can't sit back and defend, we don't have those type of defenders. But the current manager only knows how to implement that type of play...

The perpetual replacement of the manager is making it easy for the players to down tools. I don't want Rafa out, but things need to change and quick.

1. No subs yesterday was a joke.

2. Why on earth did he not get Simms and Dobbin on for the last 10-15 minutes? It was a no-lose situation when you see how ineffective Rondon and Iwobi were. The fans would've got behind them, and acknowledged we had a go. Sometimes, you just need to take a risk and see if kids can succeed.

3. Why did Delph not come on? We need quicker passing through the lines.

4. Why is one of the biggest creative left-backs in European football told to stay at home? We are literally giving up 10 plus assists by keeping him at home, from a team that creates nothing.

5. Coleman is done. I've loved Seamus, but continuing to play him is the saddest thing I've seen.

6. The whole recruitment department needs culling. We have overseen the worst recruitment in world football. Big fees, big wages and terrible footballers. Iwobi, Keane, Kean, Niasse etc etc etc need firing.

7. The youth set-up needs a complete clear-out too. Comfy FC needs to be Ruthless FC.

8. Clear the medical department. Clearly there is something wrong here too. We play the fewest games without cup or European action, yet pick up the most injuries and take forever to heal. Clearly there's a problem here.

The club is a complete joke. We need a true football leader to sort this club on the pitch and off it. Bye-bye Unsworth, Barrett-Baxendale et al.

Admittedly, I'm not an expert on formations and tactics, but I see little difference between how our last few managers have set the team up.

Martinez was slightly different because his side was a bit too gung-ho and couldn't defend. The rest all seem to play one main striker with a couple of wide players to supply the goals and opportunities.

To be honest, we have become so much of a one-trick pony of a team that, even when we have the ball, it's become a chore watching them labour from one end of the pitch to the other.

And it's even worse around the penalty area as they mostly fail to produce anything noteworthy – such as, you know, a shot at goal or something.

Unbelievable explanation that, and if I was Everton, I would definitely be asking for clarification on this, simply because of who it was sitting in the VAR studio.

Mick@378, it's clear you don't like Benitez, but I'm sure that, if we got a manager that you liked, you would also be calling Jonathan Moss a liability or even questioning his credibility because it does happen too much with this excuse for a referee.

It's not as much down to formation as much as it is to having the right mindset. Every formation (almost) can bring good attacking play if you have that mentality in the team.

The most important thing in a side that wants to attack and score goals is off-the-ball movement. To dare to commit players forward to make runs and create space, and then play one-touch football when it's possible.

This team is so static. There's hardly any movement up front when we have the ball. That all comes from the manager, it's him that sets up the team, giving instructions to players how to play.

I'm no expert either, but I love football, and I love Everton, and it's just the way that I want us to play. On the front foot, creating chances, players giving their all...

I agree and having watched Brighton against Leeds this weekend, you could see the energy that Brighton put into the match. Unfortunately for them, they couldn't put their many chances away and in the end, when Brighton had run out of steam, Leeds could quite as easily have pinched it.

The funny thing about that list is that you could field practically the same players signed by different managers today if fit.

Pickford - Godfrey, Keane, Mina Digne - Doucoure, Allan Delph - Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin. Gray.

And have Gomes, Townsend, and Gbamin on the bench.

Yes, and I don't really think it's a bad bunch of players. On the contrary, they've shown many times what they can do. Great wins last season against many top opponents, but I think they are being mismanaged at the moment, by a manager who only knows how to play one way, and not in a way that's suitable to the players...

That evening, we all went to see Mama Mia in the West End. In the car the following day, on the drive home, the girls wanted to play the CD of the musical we had seen the night before. A song from that show has since become an anthem for us whenever EFC are awful and right now the words have never seemed more apt.

Don't know how to take it, don't know where to go
My resistance running low
And every day the hold is getting tighter, and it troubles me so
(You know that I'm nobody's fool)
I'm nobody's fool and yet it's clear to me
I don't have a strategy
It's just like taking candy from a baby
And I think I must be

Under attack, I'm being taken
About to crack, defences breakin'
Won't somebody please have a heart?
Come and rescue me now 'cause I'm fallin' apart

All together now!!!

I agree that it is a mindset, Johan, and once we lose a couple of our better players, the mindset of this group just shows a complete lack of belief, and a real lack of leadership.

I think Benitez is aware of this. I think it's why Ancelotti got in contact with Madrid, and I don't think we can change it without signing players, or having our full squad of players available. It's a conclusion that I have come to after reviewing what our last few managers managed to achieve with the majority of this squad.

Go on the Echo comments page and see what the RS are saying about Benitez: they are loving it, that is one of many reasons he should not have got the job.

Richarlison has stunk this season, could it be the manager's tactics cos he looks absolutely pissed off with hardly seeing the ball.

John Boon (above) – thanks.

I put no blame on Benitez, he's just an incompetent and grossly over-rated coach. The people responsible are Moshiri, Brands and Kenwright – not Rondon and Iwobi, who are completely innocent.

I honestly don't see much difference with the tactics of Benitez and Ancelotti, and actually thought Everton looked good going forward earlier in the season, just like Ancelotti's team had looked the season before, until injuries and suspensions set in.

That was defo a penalty on Rondon yesterday, but what annoyed me the most was no-one really appealed a definite penalty!

Us supporters only want what is best for the club. We expect 100% from everyone – top to bottom. Some players are allowed the odd off-day; even the manager can have one. The frustration we are experiencing is seeing a lack of desire and effort in every game.

We need to get people into our playing, coaching and boardroom that are hungry for success. We need to stop this fucking gravy train for ex-players. This sentimentality shite that we love to see and hear has to stop now.

Paying obscene wages to clapped out or rubbish players has us in a bind. Rip the current script up and let's start again. Teary Bill is at the centre of our crises which, by the way, had been going on for 5 decades.

If ever the cull happens, this club will be unrecognisable... and for the good.

Rant over and heading to the air-raid shelter.

Is it any wonder we barely spent a penny in the transfer window? God forbid if we spend a fiver over our FFP limit.

And that is the problem, we get attacked from all corners, simply because we are an easy target outside the big boys.

If Everton step out of line, we get punished to keep the other 13 teams in line, while those at the top can overspend, break rules, surround a ref and get a decision changed, have VAR on their side, keep the Top 4 and broadcasting and advertisers are rubbing their hands.

Everton and the other clubs do not have a cat in hell's chance, when the top teams are untouchable.

Think it is now a case of not even bothering appealing, such is the bias.

A thin squad with inadequate players beyond our first 12 to 14 has cost us, regardless of manager.

I will be at Palace away and will make one of the home games before the New Year. Meet up in town or around Goodison on the cards?

Thank gawd Kenwright will be there to pick up the pieces and fill that lot full of joy.

You couldn't make it up, could you? But then you don't have to, it's happening in front of our eyes!

ps: I'm not a Benitez fan but enough is enough now.

Now that a day of Monday work is over, I can reflect a bit better – the booze is out of the system for starters!

The game was worth a draw and no more, the manager should have tried something. We wait, with baited breath, for Wednesday…

I have this argument with my brother all the time.

The debate that only former Evertonians have ever won anything holds true when you talk of previous winners.

Now we are employing a series of total underachievers.

Nothing but the best is good enough. No. That is not the case on the training pitches of Finch Farm.

Yes, I agree, obviously it could just be rumours but, on the other hand, if we get hammered on Wednesday, then I can see him getting sacked.

My personal opinion, as I've said in previous posts, is that we seem to hire managers to paper over the cracks, Benitez included. The club should've sat down and realised they need to start from scratch and give themselves an identity a while ago.

That's why I think Christophe Gautier would've been perfect; what he did at Lille was remarkable. He is now doing the same at Nice and getting rave reviews.

"Watching MotD, and that was a clear pull on Rondon's shirt, holding him back, so why didn't Jon Moss advise the referee to go and look at the pitchside monitor, and award what was a clear penalty?"

This is because, on seeing it the ref said to himself, "I didn't see that! let's move on!" and VAR said "No obvious error!"

The game is as corrupt as the Fifa and Uefa twats that run it.

Benitez seems to have accepted the gig because he still lives locally but he must've known there was no money for transfers, plus taking over a piss-poor, paper-thin squad.

So no-one comes out of this farce smelling of roses. This is building up to be the perfect storm.

If that happens, let's hope then the board finally learns from its mistakes and decides to start from scratch and build the club back up, and this includes making decisions about board members.

That's true, Mick, nobody from our team really appealed for the penalty, unlike Calvert-Lewin at Leeds, which Jay W, reminded us about before.

We just keep papering over the cracks, cannot be dismissed Marc, and we all know that eventually, one of those cracks is just going to be too big to repair.

The sackings are not as exciting as they used to be when we had real plonkers like Mike Walker getting the chop.

I guess it's like public hangings. They seem cool at first if you are tired of highwaymen but, after a while, it gets kind of old. That's probably why the did away with them.

Maybe we should also change our approach to problems?

Now, although he knows absolutely nothing about football, you can sort of forgive his disastrous appointments to the manager's chair.

But being an accountant that looks after all of Usmanov's businesses, you would expect like all good accountants he would have been mindful of the money being spent compared to income and results. But he gave Koeman and Silva (along with the DOFs) a licence to sign whoever they want, regardless of cost.

It's like giving a kid £100 and taking them to a sweet shop and saying "Buy only what you need" – and what does the kid do? He blows the whole £100.

At some point, that had to come to an end with no progress on the playing side and had to rely on Usmanov to sponsor the training ground and also bid £30 million to be first in line for the new stadium naming rights.

So we are now left with one of the worst squads in the Premier League and a manager who is still stuck with a style of football that doesn't make watching Everton a pleasure.

Digne, mate. He's been one of the most creative left-backs in Europe in recent years, but rarely gets forward these days under Rafa.

He was creative, his set-pieces were decent, and he had a decent throw into the box. Now he's off set-pieces, creates nothing, stays at home, and gives away cheap free-kicks.

Perhaps Rafa has no confidence in our centre-backs or our midfielders covering. But, with the loss of his contribution, plus James plus Sigurdsson, you can see why a moderate goal scoring side now creates virtually nothing – crap centre forward or not.

I feel that Digne has been awful for a long time now, well before the latest manager.

I really wanted to see more of Nkounkou, but there again like Moise Kean, Lookman and Vlasic, and yes King as well...

By the narrowest of margins, Iwobi must be declared the winner. Consistently shite over dozens of games, cannot mark, tackle, track back, shoot, head the ball or cross and outclasses an old contender, Schneiderlin, in cowardliness. Not exactly gifted with any speed either, except when trying to avoid the action.

I can't wait to see all these £30 million and £100k-a-week attributes on view again on Wednesday... On second thoughts, I'll probably give my sky-high blood pressure a night off and give it a miss if either of this pair start or are given a place on the bench.

ps: Every other Premier League manager would have ripped into fatty Jon Moss after the match big style, but our manager chose to just meekly accept it all, giving VAR a green light to continue shafting us for the rest of the season, starting Wednesday.

The answer is No; the problem is not Benitez, it's the board that has allowed £500 million (let that sink in...) be totally wasted on a load of crap, lazy, cowardly players. This squad of players couldn't care less. It's Easy Street for them and they earn millions by not caring.

I'm afraid sacking the manager won't work. I think things are that bad now we may never recover.

Whilst I fully agree that sacking the manager will not cure all our problems, it would at least get rid of one – Rondon.

I look at Allardyce and Rafa and the only difference is that one is a bit fatter and the other is Spanish.

I agree, Digne has been a total enigma recently. Generally way below the standard we have seen before. Is it simply a confidence thing (or lack of when it comes to cover), instructions or coaching?

Just hope he gets his mojo back soon but, if we can see Richarlison back on the left instead of Gordon, things might start looking up.

The ambition is mind-boggling… a future filled with the likes of Rondon, Begovic and Townsend. Yay.

It's not an either/or situation: he is the latest horrendous mistake in a long line of them. The fact mistakes were made before does not stop him being a mistake.

My ask for tomorrow: as soon as the match is lost (likely about 15 or 20 mins in if he tries to do what he did at Man City), we all start singing “He's just a Fat Spanish Waiter”. There is no coming back from that.

No more nice fans, get this pleb out now.

I fully register the observation of those revered Evertonians who are at the point of bailing on Rafa. Just consider that this may be exactly why Moshiri chose Rafa – he is an easy fall guy.

Now personally I think Moshiri has underestimated Rafa's organizational skills since dealing with Ashley and Newcastle. Additionally, you'll notice that Rafa got rather aggressive in calling some out on the mic early on. He knows Moshiri is afraid to get on mic and answer the tough questions live.

This could be a very interesting episode but don't just take it in at the entertainment or club rage level. Rafa probably did his homework and knows exactly how to play this; the other guy I'm not so sure about.

For what that's worth, that and about three dollars/pounds will still get you a decent coffee in town. Sincerely, your Retarded American (English) football friend.

While Rafa Benitz is not helping himself with his Rondon & Iwobi decisions, I agree that he is not the (main) problem.

As the Esk has argued in his recent posts, it's difficult to blame “The Board” as we we don't really have one – we have a management committee who appear to judge themselves – and appear to think they are doing a cracking job.

So, by a process of elimination, the root of the problem seems to be the owner who oversees and approves the recruitment of these executives but doesn't appear to hold any of them to account.

Our owner seems prepared to hire and fire first-team managers at regular intervals while every other senior employee seems to have been given immunity from criticism. At least, that's how it looks from the outside.

I see that one group of supporters had a banner at the Brentford game. I hope there will be a few more on display on Wednesday – and that some of the Main Stand veterans will searching their lofts for any cushions left over from the 1970s.

Imagine singing that song against Liverpool? Imagine the joy it would give to those other self-proclaimers?

I'd sooner just get behind Everton because I'm an Evertonian and I think the only chance we stand on Wednesday is if every single Evertonian in the ground gets right behind our team.

Your comments about cushions in the Main Stand reminded me of John Lennon, those in the cheap seats clap your hands (those on the terracing stamp your feet) those of you in the rich seats, rattle your jewellery (launch your posh cushions).

And if it is a full revolution and we change the song, it has to be something from Mott the Hoople or I'm really disappointed with you.

I'm with you, it just underlines the obsession with the past and Kenwright's misty eyed sixties (everyone to their own views, of course).

If up to me (and it's not), it would be some full throttle rock/punk. The riff by the Stooges, Wanna be your dog. Bill would just love that.

Don't conflate the FSW, one is our club, the other is an imposter topping up his pension.

Personally, I think the fans forcing him out removes the humiliation, because you know at 2- or 3-nil on Wednesday, those cnuts are going to be signing his name.

You are choosing a tail chase for the next manager with either reduced ability to keep us in the Premier League or terms that Moshiri will shrivel to accept. Translation = manager search hell.

Although I am always overly optimistic, I don't particularly think I am about this game. Maybe I have finally accepted the inevitable and don't care anymore (I find that very hard to believe though). Just got a very odd sense about it which I can't explain.

Neil, l'm actually optimistic of our chances. Rondon and lwobi will be on the bench for a start with Richy and Gray in their places and l think maybe Delph for Gordon.

At this stage, it's not certain who will be in charge come January but Rafa needs a win soon and it's very hard to see where that's coming from this side of Christmas.

Absolute hitting the nail on the head and really, a top, top comment.

Kenwright is a muppet, he once stood on the pen
On his uncles crossbar, since the age of ten.
He bought himself a train set, and still has it on show.
A tiery eye, and a little sigh, but the bugger won’t let go

Some clubs get mega superstars, every now and then.
But uncle bill would rather, sign 5 number tens.
He can’t half tell a whopper, his yarns he’s got the lot.
He don’t care, he don’t mind, cause he’s got bets hot pot.

Anyone fancy adding a verse or two.

The curtain call is coming
He doesn't know it yet.
He was the back end of a horse.
It's time to see a vet.

Nice not knowing you, Bill.

I look forward to an email from Little Miss Dynamite confirming the news.

Gray came on and provided plenty of crosses, but no-one in the middle. Rondon, to be fair, after 70 minutes as a lone striker, hadn't anything left in the tank, but to leave him up-front on his own, with 3 strikers on the bench...

Okay, Simms and Dobbin are raw, but one of them or Tosun, with 15 minutes left and 1-0 down, what had he got to lose by trying to change things?

Instead, he looked at Iwobi (shocking yet again) and Gordon (totally ineffective) and made no other substitutions. Absolutely shocking, that told me everything about Benitez's tactics and game plan?

We can blame injuries, the board, Brands etc, but 1-0 down and Iwobi and Gordon passengers – that was enough for me.

Rafa was appointed just after Tierry Small and Josh King left the club. Does anybody doubt he would have kept both players and probably not signed Rondon if he had been given the job earlier?

King is now a good player; when he left us, he was good; when he joined us, he was as fit and talented as Rondon is now.

I do not like LFC as a club – they will bend any principle they have to succeed and earn megabucks, eg, start a breakaway league then back out as soon as they realise the backlash from the general UK fan base.

However, we as Blues have to acknowledge they have had a very good record in picking very talented managers. Rodgers and Rafa have excellent track records and now even Gerxxxx (sorry can't say the cheating gits name) has won things.

Not one of the managers that LFC have had created instant success. I do know that all of the managers of the LFC teams installed several common characteristics into their players.

1. They don't give up and often score in the last seconds. That (for the younger supporters) used to be one of our traits.

2. None of the players are afraid to shoot from any position on the pitch. We were like that for the first few games of this season. We had far more shots on target per game than most of Ancelotti's teams.

3. They try and move the play forward, not backwards as many of our teams under our past managers have done. Once again, even against Brentford we were moving forward.

It will take Rafa time to change us. In just over 6 months time, he will be able to change the team radically and a lot of players will have finished their contracts, freeing up a lot of salaries to recruit better players similar to Diaz.

Changing managers often does not guarantee success – ask Man Utd, who I am sure have spent a lot more than £500M to get regular Champions League games.

Remember which Man Utd manager was at the point of being sacked before becoming the most successful manager in their history.

But then l gave you some worn-out faces.

Anyway 3 points Wednesday and we start looking up again.

Benitez has to go for me and not because I'm blaming him for the wrongs of the club but more that it's just wrong in my eyes as a blue that he's at the club and in a similar sense as it was with Allardyce.

If you look at the last 5 managers we've had, I would say only Martinez and Silva actually cared about what they were doing for the club and that's because they were building their careers and Everton was a big step for them. The others were dinosaurs who are there for the big bucks but couldn't give a shit about the club.

I'm not sure who's next but it has to be somebody with ambition to win trophies and with a good football brain. Potter may be the type but please no more mercenaries.

The bigger picture is that the club needs a clean-out from the bottom upwards and, if it doesn't start now whilst we're in this turmoil, then it will be because we as fans have not put enough pressure on these idiots who own the club.

Let's give it to them on all fronts tomorrow win, lose or draw. Try the Animals song with a twist in it. ‘ You Gotta Get Out of this Place'. – Aimed at Kenwright, of course.

Well, I was sticking to the Beatles theme (Revolver) but your one is probably as good.

If you had a wife and she died, and you got remarried and she died, then you remarried and she died, then you remarried and cause of your ages your new wife had been around the block and while you were out you ran into her ex-boyfriend and he said “lovely bunch of coconuts sweetheart” to her. Would you divorce her? Because that's a perfect analogy for Rafa.

If we can get to the 20- or 30-minute mark without conceding and have shown some fight, I believe the Goodison Park faithful will get behind them. If they concede early, it could be a very dark night in the club's history.

However, the Goodison Park crowd will probably be quite reserved early on (keeping their powder dry is the military expression I'm looking for).

I have been in this type of situation myself, where good practice seems to go out the window and is secondary to the aim of getting rid of someone. Ancelotti was subject to the same treatment at the end of last season, which had him jump at the Real offer, probably thinking it wasn't worth the hassle of staying. He also became aware of budget constraints ahead, which probably didn't add up to initial promises. The expenditure on new staff, new appointments / promotions and an increase of 80% funding at Finch Farm did not add up in 20/21 in contrast.

Benitez was brought in against a background of resistance and is very much a Moshiri alone appointment. Six months into his appointment, Moshiri probably will be thinkng in terms of contingencies to help him, though others who never supported the appointment are not helping Benitez and will be working on getting him gone. He is a threat to them.

In the long discussions during Benitez's appointment interview, a review of current football operations would have been high on the agenda. Benitez has conducted that review and has begun to act with the full backing of Moshiri. That review will have assessed the strengths and weaknesses of the Squad, Brands will be told that funds are available for Benitez in the January transfer window to strengthen the squad and Brands will have the problem of getting rid of what is not wanted.

The current performance of the team will heighten the necessity of this. Benitez did not blame the players after the Brentford game. He does not have to.

I do expect a different Everton to turn up against Liverpool. Actually, Brentford did a typical lower-table job on Everton, altering their style of play accordingly, as a Brentford fan who highlighted this on a ToffeeWeb thread. Everton against Liverpool won't be like the side that played Man City. They actually hate Liverpool more than they hate Benitez.

If Benitez can get any points between now and the New Year, he will have rode out the resistance. What's more, his men in the staff will have worked themselves in more. I do think that some recoveries are being stalled and even think that Richarlison is glad not to be playing. But these players have to play soon because, if Benitez survives to the New Year, the whole scenario will change for them.

Benitez is not the type to give up and he wants to stay in Liverpool. His formidability will shine true and he will continue to push ahead in the New Year with changes, having appeared to survive.

The difference between Benitez and other Everton Managers is that he has started the job at Everton to change the competitive attitude early in the season. The threat of relegation in November is a false threat with three-quarters of the season still to go.

In the final quarter of this season, we will have a different Everton than last season, with Benitez more in control than any previous manager. It is better for him to be the outsider who is going to change things. Because change at Everton is obviously necessary. The dogs in the street know that.

There is no way that Everton are going to be in a relegation battle at the end of the season, after coming through this period. Benitez will hold his nerve.

I completely agree with you on that but remember one of those responsible for bringing in bang average players such as Iwobi, is now a member of the board too! And may I ask why Kenwright won't let go!? Is he a chairman for life!!!?

These are emotional and frustrating times, full of let-downs, and it would be a step back all over again if we appoint a new manager; money would be spent that is needed somewhere else in this FFP mess!

Support from the fans is a massive need! To lift the team up and into January, where hopefully there is a miracle happening and we get the right players!

Didn't we already see good additions this summer with Gray and Townsend? When all are fit, we're a team to be reckoned with! With more means, Rafa can finally have an influence of ingoings and outgoings from the team when it's time to do so.

But right now, inspiration from the fans is needed. The players will come with the right answer, you've seen it before. Now is this time. Let's get behind the team. Come On You Blues!

Pickford.
Coleman. Keane. Branthwaite. Godfrey. Digne
Allan.
Gray Doucouré. Delph.

Richarlison

Of the players available, I believe this to be our strongest selection and formation, to have any chance of success against Liverpool.

Pickford
Coleman Godfrey Keane Digne
Doucouré Allan Delph
Dobbin Richarlison Gray

Make Delph's primary job to cover Salah, allowing Digne to get forward and join Gray in making Arnold too scared to get up. Doucouré (assuming he's fit enough) bombs forward at pace with front three on counter and trying to get in behind the big Dutch donkey.

I think Delph has done okay since he came back into the fold, but watching him play against City, it was clear that his legs have gone? Unless it’s true what Benitez said about him, that he’d been pushing himself hard everyday.

If this is the case, then it’s possible that he’d left to much on the training ground? Which I hope was the case because he’s one of the few composed footballers in our squad.

I think you've got mixed up there. Fans get behind the team to lift them up – how about they show some fight on the pitch to get the fans behind them?

Works both ways and, given they've been shit for a few seasons, there's nothing the fans can do that the managers haven't tried.

13 games played is closer to a third of the season rather than a quarter, but if Benitez is still here at the end of January, it would at least signal that Everton has added a few points to our current tally.

In the Goodison derby, Van Dijk was given strict instructions by Klopp (unless he took it upon himself) to nullify our biggest danger to them at the time (James Rodriguez).

We wouldn't dream of doing that to their dangerous players. Far too nice guys like Baines, Jagielka, and now these present gobshites. It's not the Everton Way. Try telling that to Alan Ball, Peter Reid etc...

A guy who brought Rondon to the club, continually plays him when he is total shit.

A guy who has turned us into a disorganised mess with the same turgid football as his predecessor only this guy is far worse defensively (with many of the same defenders and midfielders).

A guy who has no visible plan. Ancelotti only had a Plan A but I'm not sure Benitez has even that. I can't work out how or if even he has tried to win the last two games specifically.

A guy who has only improved one player, Doucouré (and that was because he was misused previously), during his honeymoon and made many many others worse.

A guy who doesn't reward good form. Take Delph; thrown in by necessity, plays two top matches out of three, then dropped. His preferred option, Allan, stinks the place out week after week and offers nothing to help break down Brentford with cowardly side passing whereas Delph had continually been playing forward in his cameos.

Anyone thinking we lost that game because of injuries with Dominic and Richarlison being out is deluded because we hardly created a chance against one of the worst Premier League teams I've ever seen. We could have played to Christmas and not scored.

These ridiculous arguments after every game about the quality of the squad, that we can't keep changing managers, that the club is not geared for success (Kenwright, Brands, Moshiri) is all pie-in-the-sky nonsense irrelevant to the current predicament.

We employed a manager who should never have been employed based on 20-odd years of gross mismanagement. He took Napoli to 5th (worst in 12 years), Chelsea to 3rd, Real Madrid to 3rd, and a recent title-winning squad in China to 12th! Even at Newcastle, his two seasons' points tallies were exactly the same as Steve Bruce. He is doing the same with Everton, making the sum of the parts much worse.

Some are making the point that no manager has been successful because there is not a winning culture at the club. Sorry but, thanks to Benitez, we can't have these discussions about success, we have to first get back to mediocrity as we have been well and truly reduced to also-rans among the poorest in the Premier League.

I remember watching us in the bad days under Silva. We couldn't buy a win and were in total free-fall; however, we played Leicester and were absolutely superb for 80 minutes then folded.

We then played the neighbours and they were on fire, yet we caused them more problems than any other team I had seen. We still looked a good team despite the table telling us differently due to our penchant for self-explosion and clutching a defeat from the jaws of victory.

This is totally different. That was the first time in all my years watching Everton where I really thought I was watching a Championship game. We can't pass, we can't run, we have no shape, no guile, no cohesion. Our game plan seems to be sit back, get the ball to Townsend, whip it in and hope Rondon scores.

This manager has not been dealt the greatest of hands in terms of finances and recruitment, but by God he is fucking useless.

Kenwright Out!

You mentioned it would be easy to get rid of the perpetrators that I am talking about. But who are they?

As far as the Internal Management is concerned, they are changing structure and appointing people right up to October. They are not going anywhere.

The actual people that are looking after the players are looking on as Benitez's appointments are bedding in. It's more of a collective attitude with certain leaders coming to prominence as they try to exploit Benitez's weaknesses or the achilles of all managers, the threat of relegation.

There is nothing open about it and they have been doing it for seasons. Even against the Almighty Ancelotti. The arrogance is excepetional.

Posters ask for evidence, it is right before their eyes in the most of the recent Everton performances.

Of course you can blame the Board, Finch Farm, individual players, the manager, the referee. . , all as waste of time and deflections from the source and may help exasberate the problem. But what is the underlying problem? It is the attitude and how it is subtly worked throughout the club against anyone who challenges them.

The team that played Brentford was so below par in so many areas, you would have thought they had not trained or been coached. But, even with that, they had possession rates of 62 to 70%, showing the underlying capability. Benitez must feel on the training ground he is talking to himself recently.

The only way to counter this is to gradually initiate change, increase accountability, exposing the weaknesses and those not producing. This will result in a shift of power and change the culture to one where the present attitude is not acceptable.

At Everton, managers just don't lose the dressing room, they lose the club. Benitez is doing the right thing in putting it up to them early. He must have the backing of Moshiri.

I also can’t blame Benitez tactically, but with subsitutions… That’s a different story. We haven’t had a coach with the balls to change it up early since Martinez. Maybe Big Dunc also. Who can forget him yanking off Kean. Need a more positive, pregressive coach who’ll get the time to build.

Something defo. stinks at our club.

'Posters ask for evidence, it is right before their eyes in the most of the recent Everton performances.'

Plus numerous similar claims by you across multiple threads, since forever.

You are confusing two very simple words which are not synonomous at all: evidence v speculation.

You speculate a great deal about all things Everton and, in my eyes, frequently arrive at fantastical conclusions which, to your eyes, constitute Irrefutable evidence. They don't.

You like to write with the authority of one with 'insider knowledge' on Everton, when by your own admission you don't have that level of access.

Speculate all you wish Jerome. But don't think for one minute your 'evidence' is conclusive and undeniable. It is often anything but the case.

Delph is a very interesting player, who I think has improved under Benitez, Conor, simply because it’s the first manager he seems to be having a go for?

It could be because he’s in the last year of his contract, but he hasn’t really seemed to care whilst playing for Everton, and yet suddenly we have a manager saying, they have had to tell him to slow down during training.

Answer: No idea... but willing to bet more times in 5 years than in the entire length of The Days of Moyes.

Anybody counting?

I declare whoever came up with Continuing Story of Bungalow Bill the winner.

Don't see it but at least he knows how to get a performance out of his players.

I watched the Klingons V Southampton - they are no great shakes and can be got at at the back. The scoreline flattered them. It is not that long ago that we gave United a real game at Old Trafford. So much so that I thought we were a real chance for Europe this season.

We can put a half decent team out - I am sure after the away supporters venting their feelings at Brentford we will get a reaction.

I am not normally a fan of three at the back but it might suit us in this game.

Pickford
Godfrey, Keane, Branthwaite
Coleman, Doucoure, Allan, Townsend, Digne
Gray,
Richarlison

Come on you Blues!!!

I hope they leave that fear in the dressing room tomorrow night and have a bleedin’ good go at trying to win the game.